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What Would You Do?—Author Ethics Dilemmas · Reality Writes

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hello, hello everyone.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I am author Ellie Alexander, and uh we're here live again with the tech guy.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Affectionately known as the tech guy.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Affectionately known as the tech guy.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Unlike the other tech guy.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Not a tech bro.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Not a tech bro.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Tech guy.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big huge distinction.
• 0:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Huge important distinction.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to point that out, just so everybody is clear.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think anyone had any concerns about that, but in case you did, darlings, yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now you know.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when I'm writing, you made the mistake of getting me a fidget spinner.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And for any darlings who are gonna be listening to this later, I'm addicted to my fidget spinner, and it makes such fun noises.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt like we could just turn this podcast into like PMR.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what our house sounds like most uh days.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I myself like fidgety toys, but but my most of mine are soft like my stormtrooper.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's so fun uh to see you all here and to have so many people live.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Nancy and Joseph and Lily and Sherry and Spencer and Mel and Tish and the whole crew.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's been way too long.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know it has been way too long, Joseph.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're blowing it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we thought it would be fun to try some episodes of Reality Rights Live, because we've missed being live.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we want to have you be part of the conversation today.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually, um for you, Ellie, um, and everyone else, but they already know.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: But just for you, for your information, I was looking at something in the YouTube account um this morning, actually, and and I saw that our last live before uh we did one, I think this is our third one this month, I think.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But uh before that, it was December 2024.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, I know.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's really interesting because I this week have been doing Final Page Pass proofs of um Clued into Love, a holiday rom-com that's coming out later this fall, that I wrote in 2021 during the height of the pandemic.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I was having so many flashbacks while I was doing the page passes um this weekend of just how much fun we had on the live streams and how these really saved us, honestly.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So um, it's great that everybody's here.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, you darling.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are we getting into today?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: We I came up with this topic, and I'm just uh so this is this is great because a lot of these situations come up in everyday writing.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it'll be interesting because I see we have some writers and some readers and some writer readers and reader writers on the on the live today.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um it, you know, all these situations are things where you can respond in multiple ways where you can take multiple actions, and people are going to take different roads to different solutions.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um I thought it'd be good for you to give some advice based on life experience and just you know, all your connections and what you've seen and heard other professional writers, you know, how they've responded to these situations.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the title of this episode is What Would You Do?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, these are like an old TV show where what's this name?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they set up scenarios and this is a 100% original idea.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I did not borrow this from anything or anyone.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just put that out there.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna give you a scenario and we're gonna talk through a couple things, and then we're gonna ask the darlings out there listening and watching um what they think and how they might respond.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So so well, with that without further ado, um oh, first I'll make a uh an announcement real quick just because I I have to at the beginning of the butt there's there's a new book coming out on Tuesday.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a new book coming out on Tuesday.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Laying down the latte, book 21 in the Bake Shop Mystery series.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there we go.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, August 26th, uh coming out, book 21.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, bake shop's all grown out, growing out.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're going out for cocktails on Tuesday.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's hard to believe that it's already 21 books, but anyway.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, back to the subject at hand.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so scenario one, I have titled The Terrible Book Blurb.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Should come up with more creative titles for these.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: The case of the terrible book blurb.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you got some alliteration in there, so I'm okay with that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the situation.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, an author asks you.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just reading this off the script that I wrote.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: An author asks you to blurb their book.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: You read it and you genuinely don't like it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe there are plot holes, maybe the writing isn't great, or or maybe it contains offensive content.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, ooh, this is a doozy.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're just like, we're right out of the gate.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're into it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're just we're fully into it, darlings.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is important because book blurbs are a thing.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I love to share about books that I have had the opportunity to blurb and have loved.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And my slant has always been that I never want to attach my name to something that didn't resonate with me personally.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's a slippery slope, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you darlings are attracted and like my stories resonate with you, it's it's not fully likely, but it's highly likely that my reading tastes are probably also gonna be in line with that.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, the writers who I love, um, I love their books for a reason.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's their voice, it's the tone, it's whatever world they're setting up.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I don't want to recommend something that didn't resonate with me, also because that just does not feel authentic or true.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I have had this happen a few times and it's really terrible.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had this happen earlier on in my career.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think I learned some early lessons.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so any darlings who are writing and you're at the earlier stages of your career may be like, you know, put a pen in this uh because I think it's easier out of the gate to kind of have a pretty solid policy on something.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like the few instances that I can think of, especially early on in my career, were books that I agreed to blurb that were not at all in line with my cozy's or sort of anything that's in the sphere of what I want to read.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like one was it was a murder, um, but it involved like a four-year-old little girl who died.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was just brutal.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like the writing was good.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the story was great, but like it was, I couldn't get through it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it just wouldn't line up.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like if somebody's picking up a book called Laying Down the Latte, you sort of know what you're getting into here, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas then if they see Ellie Alexander recommends XXX, uh I just think it's gonna be real miserable.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm probably gonna hear from that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a mistake on my part earlier on.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like when those publicists, and also probably on the publicist too, for not doing their due diligence of like, why are you reaching out to a cozy mystery author to blurb this real dark, dark noir thriller?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I have unfortunately had a couple instances of something that is still like in the vein of what I would read.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's a cozy or it's cozy adjacent or it's a rom-com that just didn't hit with me.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And in those instances, I just have opted again, not to blurb it, um, politely, just saying, like, hey, this one didn't resonate with me.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Really like, wish you best of luck with it to the publicist at Route Bon.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would never share any more about that publicly.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Ethically, for me, that's just a line I won't cross.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, two things.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: One, uh, just for the darlings out there and anybody listening.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when she said LA Alexander recommends XXX, she was not saying that LA Alexander recommends triple X rated stuff.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just uh Maybe I did.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was just uh That was just an example.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we try to keep it clean here.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: We save we save the XXX stuff for the after party.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: No uh okay, but so you have declined them.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I have declined.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: What has has anybody ever taken it hard?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, obviously no names, but like did you like what you know, how how do you let somebody down easy uh if you, you know, if if you're gonna if you're gonna say no?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in the world of traditional publishing, most blurb requests come through the publicity team.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So these are publicists who reach out to me.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so in that case, I would just send a nice note to the publicist saying, hey, thanks so much for the opportunity to read this one.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: It just didn't resonate with me, but I'm sure that it's gonna find a great readership, blah, blah, blah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in that case, it's pretty easy because the publicist is probably just never gonna pass that on to their author.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure on the other end of that, I'm sure my publicist has reached out to dozens of authors that I've never known about.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the only blurbs that come through are the authors who end up offering you a blurb, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's easy.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: If it's someone who is independently published, that's a little bit trickier for me because um then you know I'm having a direct conversation with the author and I want to be hyper aware.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So in those instances, I'm much more um, I'm much more, what's the word?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say strategic sort of um, I'm more subjective about how many indie books I will be willing to even take the time to read, not because I don't think there's an amazing space in the market for indie titles, and that space is growing rapidly every day, and I love it, but just because I don't have the capacity.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I have now a filter request for blurbs because I get so many requests every day.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, especially with doing things like the Ashland Mystery Fest, I do sort of get inundated.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to know going into a book, like it really has to, the pitch has to really grip me.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when indie authors and or publicists reach out to me, they send a whole pitch like you would if you're querying an agent about the book.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, here's why we think it might be a match for you.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that really has to grip me too.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Nancy or Joseph, one of them had um a good question, which is would it be appropriate to give private feedback to the author who asked for the blurb?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: If I I'm assuming if you didn't like the book or found problems with it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's a great idea.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: I did have one instance where um I was asked to blurb a book that was just so great in concept and not there yet in terms of execution.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was pretty much a first draft that this author was just gonna put up.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I did kindly say, like, hey, I think they're like, here are all the things that I think are fantastic and really working for you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing that, I think you could really strengthen this book and make it um have much broader appeal, if you have um an editor look it over, because this particular book was just littered with grammatical errors and things like that that could be helped and had some had some holes.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there was one instance and I had um, I had already sort of had a relationship with this particular author.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt comfortable doing that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: If it was an author who would just reached out to me and we didn't have any kind of connection and their lerb like pulled me in and I really wanted to read it and it didn't hit, I would probably just politely decline because who knows?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like my feedback could be totally wrong.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: The next person who comes along might absolutely fall in love with that book.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: That happens all the time.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's subjective for sure.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, so uh we'll move on to the next scenario, but before that, I wanted to I I some of the um darlings out there uh did what I neglected to ask them to do to begin with, which is um uh like I want to hear we we want to hear your feedback in the comments when I present this scenario to Ellie.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for those who've already done that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um Lily said if I didn't feel it, I would never ever give a bad review.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I would decline the blurb because I could not be fake, which is totally understandable.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh cherry said I would decline the book blurb if it were me, you know, if if it didn't resonate.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, totally um this next one is um from Nancy and Joseph.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it was is probably Nancy.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: If it was Joseph, it's something that Nancy taught Joseph, which is should make her feel very proud and everything.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: But like, that's if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I um I remember what it was like because when um the bake shop mysteries were first published, like one of the things that happens is your agent will reach out like part way through the editorial process, like after after you've delivered the manuscript and everything and say, okay, hey, McMillan is ready to start going out for blurbs.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what authors do you know who you can reach out to?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're a brand new baby author, I'm like, I don't know.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's so intimidating too to ask an author.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there were some authors who I had met at conferences and had made some initial, but like, oh, that's just it's almost more painful to do that in some ways than it is to query initially.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: But then your agent and your editor, if you're in the traditional world, they will do that whole process of like, so my agent reached out to some of his other clients who provided blurbs.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then anytime a blurb comes in, you're just like, oh my gosh, like Kate Carlisle blurb, Kate Carlisle's reading my book, you know, like these authors who I had adored their work.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So to get that that back is just incredible.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to make space in my reading schedule to do that um for other people.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Melinda says, I'm I'm often asked to provide the professional equivalent of blurbs in a different industry, and staying true to your values and authenticity is crucial.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that is good, oops, that is good advice for anything in life is be authentic.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, don't don't lie.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely don't lie.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Don't no yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I loved this book.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it at the beginning, and all my readers are gonna be like, What?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I actually I actually have an issue with some of the blurbs that you received uh to like early on with the big shop mysteries, but I'll save those comments for the after party because I'm not gonna disparage anybody publicly that just yeah, but uh yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move on to scenario two.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is an interesting one, and I know this comes up a lot um as uh you know when you're doing book talks and stuff, but here's the situation.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you write you're writing a new cozy mystery and you want to set it in a real town or use actual real life businesses.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, the local coffee shop owner loves the idea that they're gonna be in the book, but you're thinking of having someone murdered there, or that one of their employees is going to end up being the killer.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you is there are there any are there anything that or is there anything that you should look out for, like in terms of using real business names, having something bad happen in a real place that that could affect them, you know, because the last thing you're gonna want to do is give a business bad PR, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh the people say there's no such thing as bad PR.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me, there is bad PR.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if there's bad PR.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is there bad PR, darling?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think, you know, my slant is always you don't want to do anything that's gonna be disparaging to the business.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: There are, there aren't really a lot of rules in terms of using an actual business name, a place, because it's a work of fiction, you have a lot more leeway than you think.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm coaching new writing students, this is a question that comes up a lot, like, oh, I want to use this, but I'm scared because blah, blah, blah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as far as I think this is this might be unique to the cozy genre in particular, too.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I throughout my career and throughout setting multiple series in different places, I have found people are very eager and enthusiastic about having their location included in the book.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the caveat for me, and this example I try to use all the time, is uh for the bake shop mysteries, for example.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of the places that you see in the books are inspired by, or actually the real place in Ashland.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: So Mix is the inspiration for tort.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oberon's is Pucks, um, Paddington Station is London Station, Ashland Springs Hotel, like OSF, like there are the Oregon cabaret, there are dozens of real life places that I have used and then tweaked and made my own, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: But Richard Lorde with his disgusting, decrepit Mary Windsor Hotel, that's not a real place.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm but it was inspired by a real place.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was that's that is no longer like that, but it was which inspired the Mary Windsor, yes.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: And was no and was never where it is in the plaza either, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it was somewhere, yeah, exactly.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was very well hidden, yes.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was very well hidden, you would never know.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, so you know, I think that's an important distinction to make if you're writing something and you're going to have like an evil nemesis.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's great to work out some of your own internal angst, like you can kill off an ex-boyfriend or like a bad boss, like going.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Fictionally, of course.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah, it's fictionally.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I wouldn't use their real name and I would try to, you know, like change some attributes.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: The flip side of that is I am always stunned by how many of you darlings will come up to me at a boot of an or a talk and say, please kill off this person or kill me in a book or maybe the villain.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: The number of people who want to be the killer or be killed in a book is a little alarming, honestly.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like just like, wait a minute.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there's uh, I don't know, maybe every everybody's like one book away from being an actual serial killer.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure, but it's just the I am always blown away, you know.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: An 85-year-old reader, this tiny, you know, woman will come up to you and just be like, could you please kill me in your next book?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, really, what little mold tier in my desk drawer of people who I've met that will just hand me something and be like, here's the name, like sickies.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: When I was in St.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Louis last fall for um the big library event, Blake, who manages and coordinates all the event, begged each of us, because there were three other authors who were with me.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she begged each of us to please kill her in a future book.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, bring it on.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's that that is uh that's interesting.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got a couple of questions.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one that said, how is it different when you're talking small business versus large corporation?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you gotta be that's why I'm saying like the cozy is um it's a little easier to get away with.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, like name dropping a big evil corporation, it's better to keep those um all fictional, would be my take, because you might get slapped with a lawsuit if like Apple, let's say, has like, well, hey, we know that you're talking about us and we're not down with that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but right, right, maybe not there.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: What what about Lil Lily asks, what about uh businesses or talent?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, should you get permission um from yeah, legally you are not required to get permission.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's always fun to, you know, reach out to somebody like let's say Mix, for example, and say, Hey, you know, I'm I'm setting my mystery here and you're the inspiration.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Nine times out of ten, business owners are gonna be thrilled.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it might also be an opportunity from a marketing lens for you to partner with one of those businesses and say, like, hey, I'm visiting your lodge this summer and I'm gonna, you know, have a dead body floating in the lake.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we could do it together.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or just little things which are very, very cool, like uh happened last year and will be happening again this year.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So for those of you coming to the Ashland Mystery Festival this October, um, be sure to stop by Mix, which is the inspiration for the real life inspiration for tort in the Bake Shop Mysteries, and check out the aprons that uh the employees at Mix will be wearing um during the festival.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's pretty cool.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So businesses like they get into it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Paddington Station is another one in Ashland that, you know, London Station and the Bake Shop Mysteries, but they absolutely love the series and they love being featured in it.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's uh Well, I was gonna that's that's a great example that I was gonna talk about with Paddington Station and um Pam and Kelly, the mother-daughter team who owns the store.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Long before we had moved to Ashland, I had I would go to Paddington Station and just be like, oh my gosh, this place is just like a treasure trove from um a writing perspective.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then years later, once we met and connected and the series was flourishing, they were like, Well, you know, we're sort of like Jules and Helen.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you are.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I planned it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes things align and you're not even intending it to be that way.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, Paddington Station is another one I'll give a little shout-out to.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just uh like for the darlings who do come to the Mystery Fest, like no tattling on me if you see me coming out of Paddington Station with bags because uh I've been given a budget.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um that you can't break if you go there.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's right before the holidays thing you get all your holiday shopping.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have so much cool stuff though.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh I think this is Joseph says, as I've been pondering my writing, I've been thinking of using landmark locations, but changing the names of things like ice cream shops, cafes, etc.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's perfect.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially because then you know you can really like build your own world that way, but if you're trying to center it someplace, you know, specific, then the landmarks are that nice touch point.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great balance, yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh what Cherry says, how revealing can you be if you're writing about a real person?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm writing about Thomas Henry, can I change the name to Henry Thomas?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, what do you want to do with this person, Cherry?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Fellas.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: I need a lot more information.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I would err on the side, like if you're using someone's actual name.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So here's an example.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I am working on a spin-off um of the novel detectives.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in book three of this series right now, and I wanted to create something that was like the Hearst Castle here in California, but I didn't want to call it the Hearst Castle because it's nowhere near where I imagine my fictional Redwood grove to be.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I also didn't want like the Hearst Castle is pretty well known, but I have um a former colleague from the Alzheimer's, he's the victim.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um we'll come back to that.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sherry says he's the victim, so we'll come back to that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I have um a colleague who I worked with at the Alzheimer's um association for years, who's um a former retired lawyer, and she has a great last name, which is Garst.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's sort of close to heart hearst.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I just sent her an email and I was like, and I'm not even gonna use her first name, but I'm gonna use her last name.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I was like, I would love to use your last name in this book, and here's why.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And of course she wrote back and she's like, yes.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and usually if I use somebody's real name, like their exact real name, sometimes I'll offer this as like, you know, some sort of giveaway or fundraiser kind of thing, um, which is super fun.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but so for that, I would get permission.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you're painting a picture of someone who is really villainous, I would I would change as many personal details as you can.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I wouldn't do the just like if he's the victim, I wouldn't do Henry Thomas.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe, maybe it's like Ben Rebomas where you come up with Henry Bomus.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of wild name, exactly.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, uh the the thing you just mentioned though, uh, so for all the writers and and uh um you know the out there, um offering up a character name in a book is an amazing way to raise money for your child's school.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'll tell you because I was blown away the first time you did this, I think uh little Sky Guy was in like second grade, maybe, and we had there was an auction uh uh to raise money for the uh Spanish immersion program at his school.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like there was all sorts of stuff you could bid on, gifts, certificates, and everything.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: The bidding for naming a character in one of the bake shop mysteries went, it was it was obscene how much money people were throwing out.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I couldn't believe it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think you funded like half the program for a year based on that one prize.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was just it was uh phenomenal.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: But again, going back to that whole people wanting to be the the killer or the victim, um it's just a great idea.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a writer and you have kids and and the school ever has an auction, like offer that up as a prize.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: It costs you nothing and it will raise money for your school, a guarantee.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's super fun because then it gives me like a lot of times, then I'll work with whoever wins that.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll sometimes people want to, you know, um have a grandkid's name in it, or they have somebody they want to honor.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people want to just come up with ridiculous, outlandish characters.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's so fun for me because then I just get to take that and and run with it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: So but uh the caveat there is always like I warn people like your character might meet an untimely death right at the beginning.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't tell you what's gonna happen with this character, but that's or they could be the janitor that makes you know the one a one-page appearance or something that just you never know.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a it's a fun prize nonetheless.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um the last thing I'll say on this that that, and I I kind of touched on this with Mix and Paddington Station, but like if you are a writer and and you, especially if you live in a smaller town and there are businesses or people that you want to include in your books and you want to talk to them about that, like I it is the cozy mystery genre in particular has like um you know, a common theme is community and everything.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I feel like including businesses and stuff, even if you do change the names, but you the spirit is there and it's obvious who you're talking about and stuff, it really does foster real life community too.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that is super great.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: So which is kind of the whole way the Ashland Mystery Fest was born because over the years so many of you darlings have come to visit, and then all of the real locations like Oberons are like, Oh, yes, we'd love to be part of this.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, of course we we would love to have readers come into our store and have a martini with lanes.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Valerie says a cozy mystery writer set her series in the town we both live in about 20 years ago.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Her fictional version was definitely more picturesque than reality back then, but so entertaining.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:23
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 29:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:25
  unknown: Uh-huh.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if if you have been to Ashland or been to the Ashland Mystery Festival, you will notice some differences in the descriptions.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, but uh, but I I think you're it's pretty true to form.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, we gotta move on.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh moving on.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh boy, this next one.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, scenario three is the negative review.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um here's the situation: a reader writes an entirely inaccurate review of your recent book, giving it a one star, uh, or giving it one star and encouraging others to stay away.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Based on the content of their review, it's clear they didn't even read the book.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely nothing.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let me repeat that a thousand more times.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely nothing.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Walk away from your computer screen, walk away from your phone, take whatever device you have and put it away because you are never going to engage with negative reviews or really reviews of any kind.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because reviews are not for the writers.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Reviewers might think that they're for the writers, but they're not.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: They are ultimately for a reader.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you as a darling get to use discernment and say you read that review, and maybe whatever this person is calling out in the one-star review is something that actually makes you go, oh yeah, I do want to read that book.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, maybe it's something about um diverse characters or something like that, where you're like, oh, yep, then check.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: That that is a book for me.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But even if they're completely wrong about the review, it doesn't matter because there's nothing good that comes out of trying to engage and enter.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I have seen I've seen some crime scenes over the years from authors who have tried to engage with negative reviews, and then it really goes south quickly.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I so while while we're talking about this, uh, do you want to hear from the Darlans out there?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you be tempted to respond?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even even with uh Ellie's advice here, like would you be tempted tempted to respond if uh you felt the review was inaccurate or uh not deserving?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um just curious.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like you always want to be respond on my behalf.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I have winning atchment because but so so a little bit on that because I will talk about one way that that uh writers, authors out there can respond.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's to not respond directly, but to use that as motivation to share the good reviews because your book will get good reviews, even if your book is your book is going to get negative reviews.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is reading books, everything is so subjective that if a million people love your book, you are guaranteed to have you know 10% of of that.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it is, you know, 10% more are going to hate your book and and really hate your book.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it just it it that's just the way it works.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: It things don't resonate with people.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know what?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are just jerks.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna be, I'm just gonna say it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're just like there's no reason.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I it I've seen some really bad reviews for books that I have loved.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, but and so yes, I joke with you all the time about uh wanting to respond, but you know I never would, at least not publicly.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the after party's for.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're gonna talk about some of those.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why this topic is in here.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing that authors could do uh that would be um super useful and everything is like read the negative review, don't read the negative review, just ignore it, whatever you want to do.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Skip over it, go to the good reviews, and use those in your marketing, use those in your social media posts, put those on your website, put them on the book pages, everything, because there again, there are going to be people who love your book and write really good things about it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so I would interject two things here.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, and I think this is the most important takeaway.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you are trying to please everyone, you please no one.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so write what you want to write right from that lens, show up, do that authentically, and you will find your readership.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's first and foremost.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Second, this is another thing that I learned really early on in my career.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I have had you know 15 years of plus of practice of this.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't read my reviews at all.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you do read reviews because you tend to pull marketing, oh, and or like Storm, my publisher, when I have a new book coming out, they will send the graphic images with oh, Disney Ask them.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you read reviews?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think it's particularly healthy for you to do that.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you need like a little endorphin hit, sure, maybe go read a few five-star reviews, but those are already like, you know, probably your readers who are gonna love you the most, um, which is fine.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if you can get someone else to compile those reviews for you somehow, if you have a friend or a partner or um a publishing admin or your publicity team if you're if you're in the traditional world and you just leave those alone.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I blissfully never see them.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm completely okay with that.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: What will happen is reviewers will tag me on social media.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: I will engage in those, and that's always fun because it is like a little hit of like, oh, you like my book.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Even if somebody tags me with like a three-star review, I will thank them and gladly share that too.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: The reality is, I think maybe over the course of the last 15 years, I've gotten tagged once or twice with a one or two.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if if people hate your book, they're not usually, I don't know, maybe that's only true in the cozy world, but I just I don't see those.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And they they are there.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure they're on Goodreads in other places, but yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um this happens too.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Cherry brings up like she got a one-star review because the reader couldn't get the book downloaded onto his iPad.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and like you, yeah, exactly.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Way to go, Cherry.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't download, yeah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on, like you had no control over that, so that's super unfair.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we we talked about that in a recent episode where you know, sometimes you'll get email from readers that you know they got the they're upset because their book came damaged.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't ship it, they bought it from an online seller and and and it got, you know, UPS kicked it around the warehouse for a couple, you know, hours before they brought it to your doorstep and it was bent.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I there's nothing an author can do about that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's unfortunate.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that happened, Cherry, but it's probably not gonna be the last time, unfortunately.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, and honestly, like in in many ways, I think having a few negative reviews also lends um weight and um some level of authenticity too to your book, like being trivial too.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think it's good, like because I'm always a little suspect if something only has like five-star reviews.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, somebody you I'm not just book wise, but like products, even where you're like, Right.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the review farm got a hold of it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Lily asked, you don't have to connect with readers who give rave reviews, or you don't feel obligated to.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, because again, those are ultimately for readers to decide.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like those reviews are intended for a reader to pick up those that book.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I feel obligated to respond to constructive feedback from my editorial teams, um, because they are are all part of the process of strengthening a series or a book, um, an individual story.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that would be true if you're an indie author too, you know, that you whoever you're working with on the editorial side, like it's important to receive, or your beta readers, like people like that who um are in the position of guiding you and helping you strengthen something, yes.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: But reviews are for readers.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can put, I'm using my hands to show boundaries, darling.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you can put some guidelines around that early on, I think it's super helpful.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you've said this like um I've heard you say this so many times at book talks and and um conventions and stuff, but this thing that Melinda said it was listening to a different podcast the other day.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: There are other podcasts out there?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and they were making the point that once the book is released, the author has uh let me put it back up.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: The author has no role in the relationship between the book and the readers.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I mean, you I think you teach that in the course too.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let it go, let it go.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sue says, uh, you're a wise woman, Sue.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust all good reath.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: If something has all positive reviews, yeah, it's probably those are probably fake.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe Sue.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, one one last scenario, one last scenario.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm ready.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is uh this one I I call the problematic fan.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this this is along the lines of reviews, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this is good.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so here's the situation: you have a super fan who promotes your books heavily, but also posts content you find personally objectionable on their social media.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: They tag you constantly and use your book quotes in contexts that make you uncomfortable.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, um, you know, I actually I until you asked this question, I had sort of forgotten this.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: I did have this experience early on years ago, um, with a fan who had a massive crush on.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even gonna say because like I don't want to call this person out if they're still, I think they've moved on to someone else's book.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: They had a crush on one.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was on it was on me, wasn't it?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely on you, yeah.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can be honest.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's this it's a safe space, so yeah.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, totally.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, they had a crush on um one of the male characters in the book.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they had it, they tended to read very, very, very, very spicy romance, which is great.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like no rate at all.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I remember this, yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: You remember this?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so they were taking like quotes and little snippets of my cozy's and turning them into this whole like spicy slideshow.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was uh pornographic bake shop fiction.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, pretty much I'm like, okay, like love the spice, uh read whatever you want to read.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the issue, but like hey, those like your demographic who reads like real spicy romance, they're gonna hate this cozy.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be like, what is happening?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: She's naked, is that a euphemism for something else?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so there's that, and then yeah, not really on brand for like, you know, there's my latte and my little cardamom bun recipes.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, I totally forgot about that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Valerie Valerie was the best comment.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: What's that?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just the emoji, yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Porn fanfic, yep.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was, and and the thing is it was done like it, it was honestly like it was it was positive in this person's eye in in in this person's eyes.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and they were they were super fans, but it it was coming across as though maybe it was something you were making, like or that you were promoting, you know, that that you you were uh not promoting, but um uh condoning, I guess.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well I remember of it because it has been like 10 years, is that like I think it was that they DM'd me and wanted me to keep sharing, and I was like, ooh, like you do you.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't I would never, I wouldn't think, I mean, like, unless it was something like crazy offensive, I don't think I have a direct conversation with somebody about that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I do recall them asking, like, hey, why aren't you sharing this?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's when I was like, right, I don't think this is a good match for our audience, but and then we came home to a rabbit boiling on the stove and I probably forgot about that.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I guess as a more general rule, I would say it's probably the same thing, like it's probably best to just let that be, unless it's something that is like, you know, really disturbing or graphic or but I probably wouldn't share that on your own social pages.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Joseph, who has those feelings toward Richard Lorde?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was kind of like that, Joseph.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're not that far off, honestly.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: How did it how did you get it to stop?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember, honestly, Cherry.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it just sort of like I think they went on to something.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think they found a new like book crush and moved on.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely I I have a distinct memory for sure of just being really clear.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Again, not not negative, but like, oh, I appreciate you reaching out to me about sharing this on my social media, but this is not a match for what like my darlings are looking for.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, maybe it is.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should revisit this, but yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I I'd forgotten about that one too.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: When I wrote this, I hadn't even so that that was a great answer.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great, great topic to bring up.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's all the those are all the scenarios I had for today.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um those are some good ones.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh hitting you with questions that you had no idea were coming.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's uh keep it real on reality rights.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was doing.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um once again, laying down the latte comes out Tuesday, August 26th.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Two days.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be out on Tuesday, book 21.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and in a few minutes, we're gonna go do the after party, right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And thanks so much for joining us on the live stream for those darlings who could be here.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Great to see you all, great to get to chat.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh on that note, I guess, until next time.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everybody.