Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #214 - For Azeroth!: “Diversity Space Points”

Transcript

#214 - For Azeroth!: “Diversity Space Points” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:06
  Victory for the Forsaken for Lord, are on for the Kirin, Tor
• 0:13
  and REO for calendar organ. Alias us Endora.
• 0:30
  For the alliance for Azeroth. This episode of for Azeroth, is
• 0:47
  brought to you by a wonderful patrons over at patreon.com
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  slash fats. Fats, will always be free.
• 0:53
  But even Joy. The content we produce consider
• 0:55
  becoming a patron at patreon / fast.
• 0:58
  That's Faz. Hello and welcome back to
• 1:21
  another episode of for Azeroth. I am one of your hosts a True
• 1:26
  Villain many and joining me. As always is Adventure live
• 1:30
  live. Oh boy.
• 1:36
  It's a hits. It's been a week, you know, it
• 1:38
  was sort of slow. It's sort of slow.
• 1:41
  And then we had all of this happen and then we had Friday
• 1:46
  and then we had Thursday Friday. Wow, man.
• 1:51
  Okay. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't even
• 1:54
  feel like it's appropriate to talk about what happened in.
• 1:56
  WoW, for us this week. But just because there's been,
• 1:59
  you know, things have happened. I'm gonna ask him later.
• 2:02
  I am going to ask me later because we ask each other.
• 2:04
  How are we can? Wow, is being going and
• 2:07
  typically we B. Do we play?
• 2:09
  WoW, cooperatively together? Like I'm doing the same things
• 2:13
  in the same Guild as you do this marks, the first episode where
• 2:17
  that is no longer true live, you have Honor flying out of the
• 2:21
  desk, like some sort of majestic bird off into the Horizon.
• 2:24
  I don't know where you're at. So I kind of really do want to
• 2:27
  know how your week is going, but we do have some stuff to talk
• 2:30
  about. So we're going to dive right
• 2:31
  into the new, some Activision Blizzard news so much Activision
• 2:36
  Blizzard news. So Activision Blizzard obviously
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  has been having some issues with their diversity and with proper
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  representation. Mmm-hmm.
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  There has been definitely a lot of complaints about a toxic work
• 2:55
  environment. And in order to help combat that
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  sort of ideology mindset. One of their departments within
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  King had worked with a mighty, so develop a tool.
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  And this tool is called the diversity space tool.
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  And basically, the way that this works is that it goes through
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  several parameters through Social political economic
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  factors for how they position their characters.
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  So if you have a character that is the protagonist of a game,
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  they have found studies that show that over 80%, I believe
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  there's something close to 83 percent of the protagonists are
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  white, cis-males that lead video games, and it is actually quite
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  rare to see something outside of that.
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  So they are trying to develop a tool.
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  Owl, so well as they develop games, they are aware of those
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  biases whether conscious or unconscious and helping combat.
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  That is a very Noble goal. That is a very Noble goal.
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  But it all went so, very horribly wrong with the
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  introduction of this diversity tool on Thursday Activision
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  Blizzard put out a post about this tool.
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  That is in development had been used.
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  King and reportedly had been shown to different development.
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  Houses within the Activision, Blizzard King umbrella, when
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  they chose to put this forward, they were met with some very
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  strong takes. That's one way to put it.
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  I mean, I like that's, that's definitely the way I'm going to
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  put it because honestly, if it wasn't for the people flat-out,
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  meaning on them, I would be in such a worse mood and the me.
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  Seems were not so spicy. So while we have included in in
• 4:59
  here, the official Activision Blizzard posting, We have also
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  included some Choice responses to them which we hope you will
• 5:08
  enjoy. What's your take on this?
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  One of the takes and I believe this is this is one of the
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  tweets that we have Linked In Here.
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  But the the take itself put forth by my quest refer.
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  Who used to work for blizzard, but no works for, for Amazon
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  games, working on new world. She had she had said something
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  something to the effect and I'm paraphrasing here mad, but
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  something to the effect of, as a, as a white woman, this seems
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  like something that was put together by well-meaning white
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  women and that is making me question.
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  My own biases, and a whole bunch of other stuff about diversity.
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  Like, like am I using my my privilege to to good use?
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  Like, am I, am I using it correctly?
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  And that's pretty much where I'm at with.
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  This is like it is well-meaning, but the implementation of it is
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  questionable at best. Yeah, I have to agree with you
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  there. Honestly.
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  Again, like you said, it's well, meaning they are looking to use
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  this as a tool to combat, not only like conscious biases that
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  were that people carry but also unconscious biases and I think
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  where they go wrong is that they tried to quantify it as a tool
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  as if some level of diversity or some subset of different factors
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  makes you more diverse or More willing to put this character
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  out or maybe that is too diverse or something.
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  Like it just it is this weird thing where soon as you attach a
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  number to people's experiences and background and Heritage, and
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  worldviews. It is unsettling.
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  It's almost demeaning. It is, it is just instant recoil
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  when I saw that it is some entire chart on like, oh, you
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  know, this person is like this diverse and that diverse and the
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  The real failing point of this is that because you are putting
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  it as a number and you are putting it as like, how far you
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  stray from a norm. You are therefore saying this is
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  the norm and everything else is other.
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  It is not equal in its entire conception that this person is a
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  white female. Like Jen had put out in the
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  Tweet, right? This person's a white female so,
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  you know, in terms of gender, We'll give them this scoring.
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  Are they? What's their sexual leaning?
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  Okay. Well, they're not that diverse.
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  Right? And that is disgusting.
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  It is sort of this weird mechanical dis human
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  intersectionality come to life. Yeah, like I could just imagine
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  this if they had just taken out the numbers and it would have
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  been so much easier. It would have been just a hot
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  key little design helper. Just imagine it's like clippy.
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  This is like, I'm right. Eating up a designer to go.
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  And I've got like, diversity, clippy and diversity.
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  Cliffy says, hey, you happen to have put a character in there
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  from like Compton, and you also have put in these things.
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  I think you're falling into a stereotype, and you should
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  distance yourself from this character.
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  That's it. It's just like a yeah, word
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  association. You have put these things
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  together and you have fallen door.
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  Stereotype rethink. What you're doing?
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  Just an alert says. Yeah.
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  I think you hit the nail on the head there with the with that
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  like This tool centers, the default as cishet white male
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  like that. That's that's the assumption
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  that we're, they were working off with.
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  This is that if it's like anything that's deviant from any
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  of those for descriptors is considered diverse.
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  And so, if if the the tool is built from the worldview that
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  says had white male is the default.
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  What does that say about you everything?
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  Else is other? Yeah, everything else is other.
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  Yeah, the example they gave and I think this this is also why I
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  was very I was very disturbed by the way that they put it
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  Forward, because they are putting OverWatch characters
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  front and center and then they have this entire like,
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  screenshot where they have several characters and they're
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  like, oh, look at this one. This one.
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  This one has a different sexual orientation.
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  Oh, look at this one. He's from a different ethnic
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  race. Look at it.
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  Look at this one. They're from a place.
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  That's not the US like 95% of characters.
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  We design. This so diverse and it's and
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  it's like you're trying to combat tokenism.
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  But your screenshot you're like headed to header image of this
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  is nothing but tokenism. When you go beyond that and you
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  look at how they break down characters like Anna and they
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  look at Anna, and they look at how and Anna is in terms of her
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  silhouette and they're like, oh, you know, she's not a plus-size
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  woman or she's not A physical body builder, like other
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  characters. So that is The Stereotype or
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  women in video games. Very true that women are often
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  sexualized cannot be larger or muscular.
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  There was the entire thing with, with the build of a character
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  in, I'm forgetting the video game.
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  It is the one where you're surviving zombies The Last of
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  Us. Yeah.
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  That's us too. Yeah, so Last of Us 2, they had
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  The female bodybuilder. And a lot of people are like, oh
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  women can't look like that. That's not right?
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  And blue and it was this entire thing just because of body
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  image. So this isn't just about things
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  that like race or sexual orientation.
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  This is this thing, covered a multitude of different factors
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  and it was very comprehensive and I think in that way, it is a
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  good tool. It is a matter of hey.
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  Yes. You do have a character here as
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  a A female lead from a different background that is not that
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  represented. But you've also made her a
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  walking bomb, shell sexual thing, and that's a big red
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  flag. So like there were there was a
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  lot to this system and I think there's a lot that can be
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  salvaged from this system. It's just that it feels very
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  much like rather than fixing the culture at the workplace
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  bringing people in with diverse lived experiences and different
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  perspectives. To actually build the games,
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  which would take effort. They're like, we're going to do
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  a computer program and then you just follow this and hopefully
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  you won't get a piss anybody off and it seems very cheap, very
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  artificial, very automated way of working on a very systemic
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  problem rather than trying to solve the actual problem, which
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  is having people in the room. Making those decisions that have
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  a diverse view of the world and have the diverse background.
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  Yeah, the goal the Goal should be decent during whatever is set
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  as the default rate because it's been, the shouldn't be a
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  default. Yeah, because default human
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  looks different everywhere and they like there is no default
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  human. There is just humans and brawl.
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  We're all different were all the same in that we're all human and
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  having having a default setting that you're trying to base
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  things off of is not how you go about this.
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  And the way, the best way is just like what made you said,
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  like, you you decenter? They're decent her eyes.
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  Something by having people in the room writing their lived
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  experience writing from their, their point of view.
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  Like the reason that the majority, like, that 83% of
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  protagonist video games, have been white men has been, because
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  that's who's writing these characters.
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  That's exactly who's writing these characters and have been
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  for decades. The only way we Fix that is by
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  getting people that aren't white men, writing more video games,
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  and making the decisions about these video games in these
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  characters that are going into the video games.
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  Yeah. And in that way, I do want to
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  say some good things that have come across, that I've come
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  across this week in terms of Blizzard recently Diandra, who
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  is one of the senior narrative designers for World of Warcraft
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  did a interview You wear, it was showcasing people of Asian
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  Heritage in the game industry, and I listen to that interview.
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  I will put that in the show notes, and it was very much,
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  even though people are coming from different experiences.
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  She's coming from an Asian background.
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  And I myself missed a mail from a african-canadian background.
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  A lot of the parallel spoke to me.
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  There are common struggles as much as we are very different in
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  different people knowing those through lines, knowing those
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  that commonality and what unites us makes a good story.
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  And if she puts some of that learned and lived experience
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  into the game, it will speak to a completely different audience
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  than if even great writers. Like Steve the new sir put their
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  experiences because Steve's experiences are one thing.
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  And if he writes tennis, Expansions will get one thing 10
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  different times. But if you have people
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  collaborating and working together and pulling from all
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  these different experiences, you're going to get a much
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  richer chapter story characterization and through
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  through line for this game. So there's already good stuff
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  coming out of blizzard and already better changes coming
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  from industry as well. But of course, we've got a long
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  way to go from there. Again, we put in some very spicy
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  memes. I am so glad that the community
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  had such a strong vocal reaction that they literally dragged
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  somebody back in the next day and posted a context for this
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  after business hours on Friday. So, you know, that they were
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  they definitely were listening to it and I kind of want to read
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  that out right now. So, excuse me.
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  I'm horrible at Stop. It will go with this.
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  So the editor's note goes as follows.
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  There has been a conversation online regarding these, the
• 16:24
  diversity space tool, particularly concerning its
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  intent and our commitment to diversity.
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  We've edited this blog post to clarify that this prototype is
• 16:34
  not being used in active game development.
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  We would like to add the following comment for additional
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  context started in 2016. The diversity tool.
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  Currently in beta, was designed as an optional supplement to the
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  work and focus our teams already placed on telling diverse
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  stories, with diverse characters, but decisions
• 16:59
  regarding in-game content have been and always will be driven
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  by development teams. The tool was developed at King
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  and has been beta tested by several developers across the
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  company. All of whom have provided
• 17:14
  valuable input. Positive valuable the objective
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  of using the tool, is to uncover unconscious bias by identifying
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  existing Norms in representation and acknowledging opportunities
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  for growth. And in inclusion.
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  I think that lines very important that they say that the
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  norm isn't what is right, but the norm is based on what is
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  very much centered currently. And in that way, identifying
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  something as the norm is more acceptable.
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  I just think that you can't make the tool like that because it
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  creates an immediate bias. Anyways, continuing it is not a
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  substitute for any other essential effort, by our teams
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  in this regard. Nor will it alter our company's
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  diversity hiring goals over the past several years?
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  The development of the tool was done with the support of all of
• 18:08
  our employee, d e, and i networks and we collaborated
• 18:13
  with external Partners to create an even more robust.
• 18:16
  Tool. This tool isn't meant to be used
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  in isolation teams would sit down with company d.
• 18:23
  I staff to identify existing norms and then discuss educate
• 18:28
  consult and collaborate on how a character's representation is
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  expressed Beyond those Norms. This process is intended to
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  create a conversation where our developers assisted by the tool
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  challenge assumptions, assess choices and find opportunities
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  for our thent, accreditation Tatian.
• 18:46
  To be fostered in our games Activision, Blizzard is
• 18:50
  committed to reflecting diversity of its millions of
• 18:53
  players around the world through represent.
• 18:55
  And at this point, I'm going to shut up because this is just PR
• 18:57
  stuff again. It is a good intention.
• 19:02
  If you follow that, and it has been in the works for a while,
• 19:06
  considering that it was started in 2016, which is even before
• 19:11
  any of the companies were starting to in not entirely
• 19:15
  actually Seen a 20-18 was one of the investigations.
• 19:19
  So about this time, the investigation started but I
• 19:23
  don't think that it was entirely related.
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  And I think that if you are using it to again challenges,
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  assumptions, assess choices and find those opportunities, for
• 19:34
  authentic representation. It is great but it is horrible
• 19:39
  to put it forward in a your life is numbered.
• 19:44
  Your experiences are. Quantified and valued
• 19:49
  differently based on how far you are away from what Bobby kotick
• 19:54
  might see as the poster child for, for the next Call of Duty
• 19:58
  game. And that to me is like where
• 20:01
  people have seen such an issue with it.
• 20:04
  Okay. So with that said, let's talk
• 20:08
  about something a little bit more interest.
• 20:11
  Well, maybe not am not interesting depending on your
• 20:14
  particular taste, but Little bit more related to the game at
• 20:18
  large. Have you been checking what's
• 20:20
  happening with this latest build in nine?
• 20:23
  Point two point five? Yeah, there to two particular,
• 20:27
  things of note. Social contract is in the game.
• 20:31
  We talked about this on the show previously, but the social
• 20:34
  contract is now in the PTR. And so it's in, it's in, and
• 20:42
  there's there's been an interesting backlash to it, but
• 20:45
  it's the opposite. Sit direction of where things
• 20:49
  were going with the with this diversity tool.
• 20:53
  The, the reaction has been ravenous and kind of kind of has
• 20:59
  made me a little ashamed. I mean, I understand if you're
• 21:04
  if you're reading through all the comments and obviously ones
• 21:07
  that are going to stick out are the people who are being trollee
• 21:12
  or stupid about it, but, I honestly think that what people
• 21:19
  generally are saying is like yeah, they're asking you not to
• 21:23
  be a jerk in the game and wouldn't that be great if you
• 21:29
  login and people aren't absolutely toxic in your dungeon
• 21:35
  runs and people aren't afraid to join group content for fear of
• 21:40
  being harassed and that sort of stuff.
• 21:43
  And here is what what has already existed in the terms of
• 21:49
  use in the end user agreement, but it's put in more plain
• 21:55
  language. It's put it in more player speak
• 21:59
  in, just like a welcome to the world of warcraft.
• 22:04
  And look at this as our office, a living breathing world full of
• 22:08
  greatness, and don't bring your crap into here.
• 22:11
  Yeah. Be nice to people please.
• 22:14
  We beg you. Yeah, and the fact that you have
• 22:19
  to accept it. Helps them put forward that.
• 22:24
  Hey, this is something that we have to agree up front.
• 22:28
  It's the here in the end, user license agreement.
• 22:31
  It's put in the front in a social contract.
• 22:36
  You have clearly violated violated this.
• 22:40
  And it's not like you could do get like one infraction and
• 22:43
  they're going to, to nail you to the wall.
• 22:45
  They say, like, listen, if you are harming, your fellow
• 22:49
  adventurers, Any of the above behaviors, you are subject to
• 22:54
  punishment which is up to and including suspension of your
• 22:58
  account. Now, if you're big enough troll,
• 23:01
  there is such a thing as a indefinite, suspension AKA band,
• 23:09
  but it's just there to give them a tool to have something that
• 23:12
  they can point to. So that when you're spamming
• 23:17
  trade chat with crap, they can they can suspend those.
• 23:21
  Accounts, it's there. It's in the social social
• 23:24
  contract, so we can suspend that account because it was spamming
• 23:28
  for carries and so forth. When you get into a group and
• 23:35
  somebody is jumping on to like a million different alts to
• 23:41
  whisper, you just absolute toxicity because you bested them
• 23:46
  in a peeve in PvP or in an arena or something.
• 23:50
  This gives blizzard recourse and I think for people who think
• 23:55
  that it's unenforceable. It's actually very enforceable
• 23:59
  for them. Oh, absolutely.
• 24:03
  Like the the takes that I've been seeing have all been, you
• 24:08
  know, basically decrying this as Garbage.
• 24:13
  That that having a social contract having to accept this
• 24:20
  in their view like hippy. Hippy dippy, like just
• 24:25
  frolicking around in the field with with everybody and everyone
• 24:29
  hold hands and being fun with each.
• 24:30
  Other thing is crap that they shouldn't have to do that.
• 24:35
  They just want to play the game and you know, everyone else,
• 24:39
  screw everyone else. Like I don't I don't care about
• 24:42
  him. But here's the thing.
• 24:44
  Here's the thing. You're playing an MMO dude,
• 24:47
  you're playing an MMO. There's other people and you're
• 24:50
  going to have to interact with other people.
• 24:51
  At some level on this game. Like you don't have to
• 24:55
  necessarily talk with anyone else.
• 24:57
  That's your choice. But how you treat other people
• 25:00
  is still something that you have to take into consideration when
• 25:06
  playing a game that's online with other people.
• 25:09
  Like you don't have a choice that you have to be in a space
• 25:11
  with other people. That's this part of the
• 25:14
  experience of playing a nympho. But like okay, even if you are
• 25:19
  one of those people who's like, oh this is the most hippy-dippy
• 25:23
  sunshine and blonde. I don't want to deal with this.
• 25:25
  I'm a hardcore like I'm like hardcore Morgan.
• 25:29
  I / everybody. And ruin whatever Edge Lord
• 25:32
  fantasy. You happen to have Or something
• 25:35
  in between. This thing is suggestive of you
• 25:41
  being helpful to other people. It says these are things that
• 25:47
  are prohibited and if you want to not interact in any
• 25:54
  meaningful way with people, so be it, you won't run a foul of
• 25:58
  this if you decide that. Hey, I really don't want to
• 26:04
  assist That person who has pulled like 20 different things
• 26:07
  because that's just going to get me killed.
• 26:10
  That's not going to be an issue. But if you are actively being
• 26:16
  harmful and - to somebody's play experience, if you are one of
• 26:21
  those people who like, you know, gets off, work pulls off your
• 26:26
  your tie and then decides that you are going to ruin somebody's
• 26:31
  day. That's when this comes into play
• 26:35
  and know. You don't have a right to do
• 26:38
  that. You're fine to play in any way,
• 26:40
  shape or form as long. As it falls short of negatively,
• 26:45
  impacting somebody else, and that's when, when the company
• 26:49
  can and should do something. Yeah.
• 26:53
  Yeah. Because it's like stuff like
• 26:54
  this. Like the other.
• 26:56
  The other. You know.
• 26:57
  Hot take quote-unquote hot. Take on this.
• 27:01
  Is that like something like this is infringing on?
• 27:04
  Someone's right to free speech. No, it's not.
• 27:06
  No, it's not. Shut up.
• 27:08
  Shut up. Just stop.
• 27:10
  Okay. I apologize.
• 27:13
  As I'm a Canadian here. So we have a Charter of Rights
• 27:18
  that has in its first thing. A reasonable limit on freedoms,
• 27:22
  you know, so it's a different thing where it's enshrined on
• 27:26
  mutable rights that exist in the US, but even still, there are
• 27:34
  protected. Speech.
• 27:37
  And there is stuff that falls short of that.
• 27:39
  That's why you have libel and slander in the u.s.
• 27:43
  In the u.s. Court systems.
• 27:45
  If Free Speech covered everything, those things would
• 27:49
  not exist, right? You would be able to write.
• 27:52
  And anyways, this is not a governmental thing, especially
• 27:56
  because it is a privately owned or publicly traded company, but
• 28:00
  it is not about Free Speech rights and that sort of stuff.
• 28:04
  Yeah, regardless of that. You're on their platform.
• 28:11
  You abide by the rules as it put it out in the end, user license
• 28:16
  agreement and this social contract and that is perfectly
• 28:21
  legal and fine. And in fact, good for them to
• 28:26
  foster a positive environment. Regardless of that.
• 28:33
  I'm sure some people are going to test the boundaries because
• 28:37
  of this showing up. So I actually suspect.
• 28:40
  There is going to be a kind of initial wave of people being
• 28:46
  jerks. Just to say that they were
• 28:48
  rebelling. Yeah.
• 28:50
  We'll see how long that lasts. Yeah.
• 28:53
  It's like you have you have the right to say whatever you want.
• 28:55
  But here's the thing. You don't you're not immune with
• 29:01
  anything that you say from dealing with the consequences of
• 29:04
  what you say to other people in social situations.
• 29:06
  Like that's that is the point of this contract.
• 29:10
  It's to say. Hey, yeah.
• 29:11
  Hey bud, you can say whatever you want.
• 29:13
  If you do something that hurts, someone else you're out of here.
• 29:20
  I mean, it's civility 101. Regardless, another thing that
• 29:25
  came up in nine point. Two point, five.
• 29:28
  Is actually unencrypted, splash screen.
• 29:32
  Now. It's a splash screen.
• 29:34
  Oh, what could that be? But nine point two point.
• 29:37
  Five has some story elements. That seem to be hidden.
• 29:43
  And so people are like, wait a second.
• 29:45
  This thing could be big if they're wanting to put it on the
• 29:48
  splash screen, but also encrypting it so nobody can see.
• 29:52
  In a several interviews Steve Danner user has said, yeah,
• 29:57
  there's going to be a lot of epilogue sort of stuff, put in,
• 30:01
  in nine point two point. Five, that people are going to
• 30:05
  be interested in is going to be stuff leading towards.
• 30:09
  Of course, the next expansion, but also stuff related to
• 30:13
  Azeroth in. In general.
• 30:16
  I'm very excited for a proper full on epilogue.
• 30:21
  I felt that they like, 9.2 and I'm pretty sure if you go back
• 30:27
  to discussions that we had there, I was saying, oh man.
• 30:33
  This has a lot of heavy lifting to do.
• 30:34
  I'm not sure they can do it, do it all and they didn't but the
• 30:40
  fact that nine point two point five my do more of the heavy
• 30:42
  lifting. Yeah.
• 30:44
  We got Ashley optimistic as Raven would say.
• 30:47
  So in 92 we did get an epilogue of sorts, but it was an epilogue
• 30:51
  to so finest store. Yep, the one part of the story.
• 30:56
  Yeah, that there's there's been a whole lot more inner woven
• 31:00
  within the story of the shadowlands and even carrying
• 31:02
  over from previous expansions, that has been largely not dealt
• 31:07
  with, in any capacity in this expansion.
• 31:11
  Like, we got, we got a little snippet of something between
• 31:18
  between bolvar and Talia. This is that's about that's
• 31:25
  about it that we got from previous expansion coming in
• 31:29
  into shadowlands that it didn't directly deal with anduin and
• 31:31
  savannas and because there are such small little Snippets like
• 31:36
  it. It's just it's not enough.
• 31:38
  So I'm so glad that there's so much more coming in there other
• 31:41
  than just like the Heritage armor stuff and that I'm hoping
• 31:46
  to spend a good amount of time digging into some story but like
• 31:50
  again, small patch. See, I don't want to get my
• 31:54
  hopes up too much because then there's no way they'll be able
• 31:56
  to deliver. So we will see especially since
• 32:02
  the splash screen is usually, one of the things that they put
• 32:05
  up basically just before it goes live.
• 32:08
  So nine point two point five could be very soon.
• 32:13
  I want to say as soon as like two weeks.
• 32:17
  Yeah, which that's the thing is that season for isn't going
• 32:21
  hand-in-hand with 925. Like the start of season 4 is
• 32:26
  going to be a couple of weeks after 9:00. 2.5.
• 32:29
  Just to give the current could be a long, probably Monday.
• 32:34
  But either way like, we know that it's going to be decoupled
• 32:37
  from the patch cycle. So and at this point, like it's
• 32:41
  not even a patch cycle. Like it's just we're getting a
• 32:43
  new patch with with more like actual story content in it,
• 32:48
  which is, which is a good thing. I think that's a fantastic thing
• 32:52
  and that may be going closer to the the legion.
• 32:58
  Kind of model where they you know, we looked at them going
• 33:03
  but was it 11 weeks between patches that correctly 11 weeks,
• 33:08
  77 days. Yeah, so that could be, you
• 33:12
  know, closer to what they're going for because it wasn't, you
• 33:16
  know, every 77 days were getting a new raid is every seven to
• 33:19
  seven days. We're getting a new patch like
• 33:23
  either a solid patch or 0.5 patch.
• 33:25
  So this could be closer to what they're doing there. which is
• 33:29
  very welcomed and The it just because they like we've already
• 33:36
  we've already done. Cereth, mortis.
• 33:37
  We've already done the raid like we've completed it.
• 33:41
  We've killed the Jailer, we've seen what happens.
• 33:46
  There's there's just not really much left to do other than you
• 33:50
  know, if you're progressing and you know, you're trying to get
• 33:52
  your Mythic plus seasonal stuff done.
• 33:55
  If you're trying to get your PVP seasonal stuff done.
• 33:57
  If you're trying to, you know, push to get cutting-edge Mythic
• 34:00
  rating, done. Like those are still things.
• 34:03
  You can do. But if you're not really
• 34:05
  focusing too much on those things, there's not really much
• 34:08
  else to do day-to-day other than just go and farm old stuff.
• 34:15
  If this is true, so then, I mean, I feel like you're just
• 34:19
  being teased me. I gotta now ask.
• 34:22
  How was your weekend Warcraft Fein?
• 34:24
  Because yeah, we said last last episode that Poindexter Furious
• 34:32
  cease trading. And so with nothing left to
• 34:37
  tether me to Alliance side. I switched back to the horde and
• 34:41
  I am once again, Troll and Engine ever re-roll never ever
• 34:46
  end. Well, you know nine point two
• 34:51
  point five will allow for cross-faction Ratings.
• 34:53
  I did a kind of farewell tour to the lion side and I rated with
• 34:59
  failings of mod and got the raid with toasty and surface and
• 35:04
  Ally, and all those people over there, which was great and then
• 35:09
  I switch back to horrid side and I got to read with get your crit
• 35:13
  together and That was awesome. And then, Yeah, now I am.
• 35:24
  Test a, a try a trailing for a new raid team and did great
• 35:31
  first night. We were up against the heroic
• 35:36
  Lords of dread and we got that down and we got a couple of
• 35:40
  shots in on Jailer those like very much at the end of the
• 35:44
  night. So we're just like, let's just
• 35:45
  go in for fun and people got mine controls.
• 35:50
  I got to like burn them down. You will see what's a lot.
• 35:52
  Lots of Giggles wonderful. My week started out with rating
• 35:59
  with, with a an old friend of the show.
• 36:04
  Someone that has been on the show actually other than a lie,
• 36:10
  Lex origin. And oh, Jen.
• 36:13
  Well, actually this is like say engines team.
• 36:15
  So while you win rated with Ali I went and traded for like some
• 36:19
  Gin but yeah, they're their Guild.
• 36:24
  Over on where mr. Cord Timber Mod Tavern had a lot
• 36:28
  of fun. Had a lot of fun with them going
• 36:31
  through and I've had to answer a very difficult question for
• 36:35
  myself this week. And that is do.
• 36:37
  I want to try and keep up with the baby and the answer to that.
• 36:42
  Is it Mythic rating just doesn't seem like it's in the cards for
• 36:46
  me anymore. And it's just entirely.
• 36:49
  Entirely because my schedule, my time that I have to play video
• 36:55
  games. Right now is very limited and at
• 36:57
  least for now and in this expansion with the time that we
• 37:01
  have left in shadowlands. I don't feel like forcing myself
• 37:05
  to play play at that high level. Like I'm still subscribe to the
• 37:09
  game. Still going to be playing.
• 37:10
  I'm still going to be writing very casually with with some of
• 37:14
  our other friends of the show, but sorry.
• 37:19
  A mama Tavern, I believe is praga NG on and Owen heroic,
• 37:27
  correct. So I don't feel, it's very
• 37:31
  casual. No well, and I'm like to be
• 37:35
  fair. I didn't go in with their main
• 37:37
  team. I went on their optional night
• 37:39
  to kind of like trial out with them and just kind of get a feel
• 37:44
  for the team and see if I fit in personality-wise with everybody.
• 37:49
  Because I'm looking at rating is more of like a social thing to
• 37:53
  do rather than looking at it as a like I still very much like
• 37:59
  want to better my own gameplay. Right?
• 38:02
  Like that's that's something that I always like to do.
• 38:04
  No matter what I'm doing in the World of Warcraft.
• 38:06
  I'm always looking to better myself, but I'm looking for
• 38:10
  rating to be an environment where I'm just I'm just there to
• 38:15
  have some have some laughs and top, the DPS charts and laugh at
• 38:18
  everybody else. For Being underneath me, except
• 38:21
  with the exception of pauldrons exists.
• 38:24
  So, You know, do what you will with that.
• 38:28
  If you know who pauldrons is, you know that I am never ever
• 38:32
  going to be at the top of the DPS charts on that raid team.
• 38:37
  You can try, you can try my hardest, I can try my hardest,
• 38:40
  but I doubt that I will ever get to that level but it's okay.
• 38:45
  It's okay. Okay.
• 38:50
  Well then there you go. And I'm happy for you.
• 38:53
  Did you switch servers? Not yet.
• 38:55
  Not yet. I'm I'm just kind of in a
• 38:59
  holding pattern on a lot of things.
• 39:02
  Like I don't really want to. I don't really want to pay a
• 39:08
  whole bunch of money does to switch my characters over.
• 39:10
  I've got characters all over the place come 92 9.25.
• 39:16
  It's not really going to matter that much because all A section
• 39:19
  stuff's going to be going up and I have characters on whore,
• 39:21
  decide that I'm going to be able to raid with have characters on
• 39:24
  Alliance. Say that I'm going to be able to
• 39:25
  read with and they're all going to be in wildly different
• 39:28
  servers anyway and trying to consolidate everything into one
• 39:31
  server. I feel like is kind of kind of
• 39:33
  folly at this point because guilds don't matter and Server
• 39:37
  doesn't matter when you're when you're trying to raid at the
• 39:39
  level that I'm trying to rate at.
• 39:40
  So it's fine. It's fine.
• 39:43
  I've got that on it. Alright, I've got that on it
• 39:45
  friends like it's fine. I am looking forward to nine
• 39:51
  point. Two point five, and the cross
• 39:53
  faction rating. Because on an off night, I would
• 39:56
  love to step in and test my mettle against this pauldrons,
• 40:04
  but just laying down the gauntlet.
• 40:05
  I have never even met pauldrons, but I'm coming for you.
• 40:12
  Yeah, it is. Good to be pushing towards it.
• 40:18
  The team is very full. So when we step into Mythic,
• 40:24
  obviously, there's going to be people who are going to be
• 40:26
  riding the bench for different fights.
• 40:30
  I don't know. If I'm even on the team yet
• 40:34
  again, I'm trialing. I've done to write nights with
• 40:38
  them, where it's being like a couple of different fights.
• 40:42
  I've done fairly well on some fights.
• 40:44
  One night. I would just like crap the bed.
• 40:48
  Maybe I shouldn't use that. There's too many court cases
• 40:50
  involving bed crapping. Anyway here.
• 40:52
  Um, so like I'm trying to put my best foot forward.
• 40:59
  But yeah, I really do. You want to say thank you to the
• 41:05
  for Azeroth Community. People heard that live and I
• 41:10
  were not rating and I got DMS and messages from people being
• 41:17
  like, hey, would the two of you like to read with us?
• 41:20
  Weird. What are you up to?
• 41:23
  This is what our rate of times are and things like that.
• 41:26
  And that is static. That is so amazing.
• 41:30
  That people would actually Care. So, merge slam ice from fire.
• 41:35
  Thank you so much for reaching out to us.
• 41:38
  I have now live, or by the time you hear this, it won't be live
• 41:42
  anymore. Extending that same.
• 41:45
  Invite over to live but looks like live as found a good place
• 41:52
  so far it would seem that way. Yes.
• 41:55
  Yeah. So great.
• 41:58
  I'm I'm glad for that. I mean the other thing I did is
• 42:01
  I like Absolutely bricked. A plus 20 last week, like we
• 42:09
  were doing well, and that was before I switched.
• 42:14
  And this was a different team that was sort of like, hey, why
• 42:17
  didn't you read with us? But like, this is Australian
• 42:20
  team. I would have to be up real early
• 42:23
  in the morning to be rating with them.
• 42:25
  And I just didn't, I didn't want to It's something likes change
• 42:30
  my schedule like this feather, like 3M, right?
• 42:34
  I mean like just because I like to have like breakfast and wake
• 42:36
  up before thing. I guess I could roll out of bed
• 42:38
  and be groggy. I had 44, but for him reading
• 42:41
  wasn't really my thing either. But yeah, like it's just it is
• 42:50
  really good to have such a great Community.
• 42:52
  Even if they if you aren't into Discord, if you're not in the
• 42:55
  Discord though, we have a lot of great people in the community
• 42:58
  who are also in the Discord and I would suggest that you check
• 43:02
  it out at the bit.ly slash fast Discord to join in that kind of
• 43:06
  conversation, but again, to the general Greater Community, thank
• 43:10
  you so much for all the outpouring of support for some
• 43:14
  for I guess what? It ended up being a good move
• 43:18
  for it. I think this is the smoothest
• 43:20
  plug that I have ever witnessed on a podcast that I, that I
• 43:24
  produce because it wasn't meant to be a plug.
• 43:29
  And I was like, well, you know what, I might as well give me
• 43:31
  the link ways. With that said, um, let's talk a
• 43:38
  little bit more about the game itself or some stuff that's
• 43:41
  coming outside of the game, The Curse Forge.
• 43:45
  Restriction of their API is pretty much going into effect.
• 43:49
  This was back in February, early, February.
• 43:52
  We're cursed for each had denied an application from wow.
• 43:57
  Wow up. Yep.
• 43:59
  To actually be able to access their, their servers and get
• 44:04
  downloads if on them. So with that done cursed was
• 44:10
  saying that they were going to restrict their API so that
• 44:13
  different Services couldn't scrape off.
• 44:15
  Off of their servers and get a get those add-ons.
• 44:19
  This means that wow up has to look for different Avenues to
• 44:25
  provide those same add-ons. They have teamed with.
• 44:31
  Is it we? Ah, go is Wago that i0y go.i.
• 44:35
  Oh, yeah, go go away. Go.
• 44:37
  I've heard I've heard wake up different.
• 44:38
  I'm gonna go with Waco. I think juego people can let me
• 44:43
  know. Just send comments to me.
• 44:50
  But they've made that partnership.
• 44:55
  They are trying to move people over.
• 44:59
  If you are using an add-on that was coming from curse.
• 45:02
  They have put up a migration guide and we have that guide in
• 45:08
  the show notes as well. Make sure you are checking out
• 45:10
  the show notes again for not just the spicy memes that we
• 45:14
  post there, that we attached, but I do also useful information
• 45:17
  as well. We do have good.
• 45:19
  Resources linked as well. It all of our show notes
• 45:22
  definitely worth checking out. Yeah, and so hopefully that will
• 45:28
  help. I know a lot of people were
• 45:29
  concerned as things were starting to no longer update,
• 45:34
  but you can go over to curse Forge if you.
• 45:37
  So like I know people have a apprehension about it and we
• 45:46
  will obviously, I mean, Because you can do what you like.
• 45:50
  But there are different options out there.
• 45:52
  You can also download things directly if you so choose.
• 45:55
  Yeah, so With that said, the last bit of news live, I'm going
• 46:02
  to let you candle this one. This is the ABK news that we're
• 46:09
  going to end this on the final of the a vacay ABK news for this
• 46:13
  episode. At least that and we're going to
• 46:15
  continue to talk about all of the developments around this
• 46:19
  because it's important to talk about first off and second off.
• 46:25
  It's kind of, its kind of getting for me.
• 46:26
  At least. It's kind of getting fun to, to
• 46:29
  look through the news and see what Miss steps APK or taking,
• 46:35
  or, you know, what, what is happening around the whole thing
• 46:38
  because it's kind of It's kind of a situation of went like one
• 46:43
  of those like it would it would be funny.
• 46:46
  If it weren't true kind of kind of things.
• 46:49
  I mean, okay, talking about this in kind of retrospective since
• 46:54
  this began nearly a year ago. This was summer last year that
• 46:58
  this began, we felt it was Definitely our place to speak on
• 47:05
  this, to make sure that this didn't fall out of the new cycle
• 47:09
  that it wouldn't just get forgotten.
• 47:12
  And I think that EJ and Raven said it best where we thought
• 47:20
  every so often. We would give a little update on
• 47:23
  how things were going and it wouldn't be every episode.
• 47:26
  It would be every other episode, not even every other episode.
• 47:30
  Maybe once a month or something, we would get something about
• 47:33
  like, oh, this is move forward into Corridor this, this sort of
• 47:36
  stuff, but it has been just such a barrage of Nearly ceaseless
• 47:44
  nonsense and I've gotten frustrated about it.
• 47:50
  Yeah, but yeah, we have, we've kept it up, we have missed
• 47:57
  weeks, and we've missed some weeks that we shouldn't have,
• 48:01
  but we've seen progress in some very good ways.
• 48:08
  In fact coming up soon is the unionization.
• 48:12
  Vote at Raven Studios. Yeah, which is, and which is a
• 48:18
  bit of good news, which we're not necessarily going to talk
• 48:21
  about here. But the, the latest, you know,
• 48:25
  big news around this whole suit and and everything around it.
• 48:30
  Is that a BK has filed a official move to have the DF.
• 48:36
  Eh case dismissed. This is, this is a move that
• 48:42
  there. They're trying to put forward
• 48:45
  and trying to get, you know, obviously get this dismissed on
• 48:49
  a technicality, which is this, a common thing.
• 48:54
  That's, it's a very common thing in defense for for your lawyers
• 48:58
  to try and find something anything that they can go
• 49:05
  through and basically not have to defend themselves for any
• 49:12
  reason. Owen and they've listed off a
• 49:16
  couple of different things. But the main, the main thing is
• 49:19
  that they basically have had like a conflict of interest
• 49:28
  develop over over the course of this and they're trying to get
• 49:32
  it. Dismissed on those grounds we
• 49:38
  have. Yeah, so the official, you know
• 49:40
  statement they have is we are moving to dismiss the DFE, H has
• 49:43
  complained because the agency violated its own rules acted in
• 49:46
  bad faith and undermined its authority to file this lawsuit.
• 49:51
  Our motion comes just days after we joined the EEOC in opposing,
• 49:55
  the sixth attempt by the DF. Eh, to disrupt the federal
• 49:58
  settlement reached with the EEOC that already is helping
• 50:02
  Activision build. Better and more inclusive,
• 50:04
  workplace and providing relief and closure to current and
• 50:08
  former employees. So this is, this is something
• 50:12
  that they're trying to not have to deal with the DF, eh case.
• 50:18
  By saying we're already dealing with everything that the DFE H
• 50:21
  is has sued us for and because of that then we are no longer
• 50:28
  beholding to the DF. Eh, which I don't know.
• 50:31
  I don't know if any of you here are law Scholars, but that's not
• 50:36
  how the law Works. Yes, but How the law works is
• 50:43
  also within their within their motion to have.
• 50:48
  It dismissed. They D, Fe H has had people who
• 50:53
  have moved from the EEOC case into the DFE.
• 50:57
  H is case and that is a conflict of interest.
• 51:03
  That is something that they're trying to say should be
• 51:06
  dismissed. That's the bad faith the
• 51:09
  repeated filings and stuff. So it doesn't look while on the
• 51:12
  DFE ages. And so even if you want to call
• 51:16
  it a technicality, it is pretty much a very serious claim that
• 51:23
  needs that needs to be review properly.
• 51:26
  Yeah, so it was expected. As soon as the EEOC through that
• 51:32
  land land mine. We knew that it was going to be
• 51:37
  that this was probably going to go forward or anybody who's
• 51:39
  paying a pay attention and Had, you know, legal Scholars putting
• 51:44
  up YouTube videos, which I may have listened to said.
• 51:47
  This is what's likely going to happen.
• 51:48
  So this was a very much expected thing.
• 51:51
  Like you said, just because they settled one case doesn't mean
• 51:56
  that other cases can't move forward.
• 51:59
  And so we will see. Where this lands this is also
• 52:05
  coming. After send this is something
• 52:07
  else that we talked about a couple weeks back.
• 52:09
  If, if not months back. I don't know how time works
• 52:11
  anymore. But this is this is all not a
• 52:15
  contract of the Shadow. I right.
• 52:18
  This is coming after the the news that the to lead people in
• 52:22
  the DF. Eh step down after it came out
• 52:27
  that Governor Gavin Newsom. Was trying to twist this case in
• 52:35
  Activision's favor specifically the dfh because obviously
• 52:39
  Newsome doesn't have any power over the EEOC because the EEOC
• 52:42
  is a federal thing, but it did he absolutely has influence over
• 52:49
  the DF. Eh because it's a California
• 52:51
  Department. It is under his state so that
• 52:58
  like it's messy. The whole thing is just A mess.
• 53:04
  Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing.
• 53:06
  Is that the California case has become so messy.
• 53:10
  So hopefully it straightens itself out as it proceeds, but
• 53:14
  it might die because it was so messy.
• 53:17
  But yep, that is the current headline for that case.
• 53:23
  Again, the EEOC Ka case has moved forward and has been
• 53:28
  settled. They are putting forward the
• 53:31
  Person that's going to be directly reporting to EEOC to
• 53:37
  make sure that changes are put in.
• 53:39
  They have also hired somebody from Disney to help lead a
• 53:45
  culture change as well. And I'm not sure if we mentioned
• 53:48
  that on the last show, Disney doesn't have the best
• 53:52
  reputation. But this is a young outspoken
• 53:57
  person who when I listened to some of Um, of their lectures
• 54:03
  that I could find were saying a lot of good things.
• 54:06
  So I'm going to once again, quote Raven and say, cautiously
• 54:10
  optimistic here. Yeah.
• 54:12
  Yeah. We do have some emails from
• 54:18
  listeners. Just, yes, we, we haven't done
• 54:21
  that in a while. I'd like to do that.
• 54:23
  Let's do that. Well, that actually emails, but
• 54:26
  these are, these are questions that were submitted by you guys
• 54:30
  that were submitted through. The Discord which Manny so
• 54:33
  graciously offered up to everyone earlier on in the show.
• 54:38
  But as always, if you would like to send questions and you can
• 54:41
  either email us at fast podcast at gmail.com, or you can join
• 54:44
  the Discord by going to put data y / Fez Discord, where we have a
• 54:48
  questions for the show channel, and this first one may need
• 54:51
  comes from calculus. Yes, so calc is asked what about
• 54:57
  shadowlands has been? So toxic for guilds.
• 55:00
  We're seeing a lot of guilds. Just folding after an sorry for
• 55:05
  a number of reasons, Beyond players taking breaks per usual
• 55:10
  and so something seems different this time around.
• 55:14
  Okay, um man. No, it doesn't.
• 55:18
  Sorry. We had this sort of attrition
• 55:21
  happen in Legion. A legion is said to be such a
• 55:25
  great thing, but we had people who were like breaking against.
• 55:31
  I believe it was in not in Taurus, probably tomb, where we
• 55:37
  were getting a bit of attrition for some guilt.
• 55:42
  We've had definitely some very high-level guilt drop in this
• 55:48
  last raid in terms of like seeing midwinter go in terms of
• 55:53
  seeing team a Spur who had just formed and I think we had said,
• 56:02
  well, we we had also said that SK pieces as well last episode
• 56:07
  and those are very high profile but in terms of where we are
• 56:14
  Four. Those Guild just because those
• 56:18
  guilds split doesn't mean those players stopped playing.
• 56:23
  Typically, they will shift into other guilds and we have seen
• 56:28
  some things like this before I believe even before they were
• 56:35
  like Team Liquid or Or what were they apologized?
• 56:42
  I'm blanking on what they were called before.
• 56:44
  Oh gosh. because B DG merged because for first they were just
• 56:53
  like big dumb Guild in the Navy, they got bought it out, liquid
• 56:59
  was I'm horrible and blanking. It'll come to me later.
• 57:07
  But there was another large wasn't it?
• 57:10
  North American at limit. Yes limit and they were
• 57:14
  complexity limit before. So yes.
• 57:17
  Limit. But we had, we had another huge
• 57:23
  North American Guild that split up ages ago.
• 57:27
  That I can't quite rare ever. And these these guilds do come
• 57:30
  and go and they run for years. They fall apart a new Guild
• 57:37
  rises in its place. It has been a very strange thing
• 57:42
  that we have. Had very particular names at the
• 57:45
  top for so long, IE like method and I guess Echo is is now where
• 57:54
  a lot of the method Talent lies. But these names sort of
• 58:03
  suffocate, a lot of the competition because they buy,
• 58:07
  they buy up the sign a lot of the competition.
• 58:10
  And in fact, for people who have been paying attention to the
• 58:12
  content creator seen, we have seen a lot of content, creator
• 58:16
  names. Also, now being scooped up by
• 58:19
  these different organizations. So that's what happens.
• 58:26
  You I think that you are going to see the players themselves
• 58:31
  suddenly become home Guiltless. You're just going to see them
• 58:36
  shift into different orgs from there.
• 58:39
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:41
  My my answer to this question is, is the civil unrest for me.
• 58:47
  Just just, you know, the general state of the world, like, people
• 58:50
  are, you know, people are, you know, looking for an outlet and
• 58:57
  Sometimes when when their Outlet is your rating Guild and this
• 59:01
  is, you know, just beyond, even just the, the top and gilts.
• 59:04
  But, you know, smaller guilds, like, like, our Guild.
• 59:08
  For example, not saying that saying.
• 59:12
  It was civil unrest that killed our Guild, but but like people
• 59:17
  whose dress is it, that people are stressed, though.
• 59:21
  People. Okay, just out right now and as
• 59:25
  there is more stress, you know, there's more.
• 59:27
  Rain, that's put on social situations and guilds are very
• 59:31
  much social situations and they are just you know, they're just
• 59:36
  as prone to the negative effects of stress as individuals are
• 59:42
  because their Collective groups of individuals come together and
• 59:47
  all of the stresses all in the same place.
• 59:49
  So yeah, it totally makes sense that that at least we'd like
• 59:53
  visibly, see, more guilds. You know, falling to the Wayside
• 1:00:00
  or, you know, breaking up and and all these people spreading
• 1:00:04
  to the wind. Yeah, again, it master was made
• 1:00:10
  out of how many different people that they scooped up off off of
• 1:00:14
  different guilds. And that made those guilds
• 1:00:16
  weaker. Yeah.
• 1:00:17
  Them blowing up because they didn't perform to the level that
• 1:00:21
  they had wanted to. Those players are now free
• 1:00:26
  agents and we'll probably filter back to those skills that they
• 1:00:28
  originally came from or coalesce into one of those skills is that
• 1:00:33
  guilt becomes like scoop some up, just scoop some up.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah, I don't I think you're going to see names change in the
• 1:00:40
  rating seen, but I don't think it's a matter of players just
• 1:00:43
  being disenfranchised with the entire rating scene.
• 1:00:48
  I definitely think that not shadowlands, but this raid has a
• 1:00:53
  lot of failure mechanics that have been hitting more casual
• 1:00:58
  guilds like race to world first Raiders.
• 1:01:01
  Everything's a pass/fail thing. You have for people down.
• 1:01:05
  You're not going to make the damage check.
• 1:01:06
  At the level of gear that they have.
• 1:01:09
  So everything's pretty much a pass/fail check.
• 1:01:12
  So they're used to it. But in in SFO, there's a lot of
• 1:01:18
  hard-coded pass/fail checks where teams that aren't quite
• 1:01:22
  used to that are against that. So that might actually be more.
• 1:01:26
  What you're feeling is that there's this harshness to the
• 1:01:31
  raid, there is this unforgiving, this to the raid at the at, like
• 1:01:35
  the higher difficulties. He's and even in some of the
• 1:01:38
  lower difficulties that they've slowly been weeding out through
• 1:01:41
  these rampant. Hot fixes that have frustrated
• 1:01:47
  players. So that might be more what
• 1:01:50
  you're thinking. But those those players can be
• 1:01:54
  taking it back because of the social issues the general.
• 1:01:58
  Unrest, that's happening with so many so many people.
• 1:02:02
  Maybe you were watching Eurovision and you really didn't
• 1:02:05
  like what's Pain put forward and you just sort of take it out on
• 1:02:09
  your a team that these things can happen.
• 1:02:13
  Somebody keeps telling you that Italian is a made-up language
• 1:02:16
  and I feel sorry about that. But like I think those things
• 1:02:21
  will pass and if the game is in a good position, come
• 1:02:26
  dragonflight. People are going to have fun
• 1:02:29
  again, but we will see here. Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  With that said, do you want to take the next question?
• 1:02:36
  This next one comes from lowered.
• 1:02:38
  Nathan reactors, which I butchered last episode.
• 1:02:44
  Sorry, Lord, Nathan me, a kiss. Go for it question.
• 1:02:49
  How should shadowlands covenants be handled in dragonflight and
• 1:02:53
  Beyond, should their benefits sold by instabilities?
• 1:02:56
  Be turned off once 10.0 starts should some parts of the Soul by
• 1:03:01
  and state active randomly. Gather mats from killed enemies.
• 1:03:03
  Hearth, kidney stone and others. Be disabled.
• 1:03:06
  Old abilities. Conduits extra damage or
• 1:03:09
  something else. My answer to this.
• 1:03:12
  Turn it off. Don't even have it.
• 1:03:14
  Active, justjust. Turn it all off.
• 1:03:16
  Just get it into the Sun, get it out of here.
• 1:03:20
  I don't want it anymore. Let the let the Covenant
• 1:03:22
  campaigns play out. Like they normally do in the
• 1:03:25
  leveling content. Turn everything else off
• 1:03:29
  justjust. Turn it off, please like okay,
• 1:03:32
  so I'll give a real answer. That's that's why no, that
• 1:03:36
  wasn't that. A good answer.
• 1:03:37
  I'm like, okay. I let's find out what your real
• 1:03:40
  answer is, but I'm kind of behind your your fake answer
• 1:03:43
  right now. So we'll see what your real
• 1:03:46
  answer is go. So, treat it similarly to how
• 1:03:53
  Treat it. Similarly to how the artifact
• 1:03:55
  system is treated like all of the like the bonuses of your of
• 1:04:00
  your order Hall and everything like those, you still get
• 1:04:02
  benefit from those and you're still able to participate in all
• 1:04:06
  the content that is available in Legion.
• 1:04:08
  I don't think any of that should change like, Shadowland should
• 1:04:11
  still be just as open as it is, but your abilities, your soul
• 1:04:14
  binds the conduits, all of those.
• 1:04:18
  Those are our power gains there, their gains, that that just like
• 1:04:21
  the artifact weapon. In like the artifact got turned
• 1:04:25
  off. At the end of the expansion.
• 1:04:27
  We surrendered, our artifact weapons power to the gaming gods
• 1:04:35
  and left it there, and it was no more.
• 1:04:39
  And I feel like the exact same thing should happen here and it
• 1:04:42
  should be the final nail in the coffin of borrowed power.
• 1:04:46
  It should be a symbolic thing that blizzard does to to have us
• 1:04:51
  in like come. 10.0 come pre patch for for dragonflight.
• 1:04:57
  It should be some symbolic thing that has a surrender.
• 1:05:01
  The power that we borrowed from the shadow lands and we will
• 1:05:05
  never get the power like that. Again.
• 1:05:08
  That's how it should be handled. Okay, I, all right.
• 1:05:13
  So I'm a mix of your two answers.
• 1:05:16
  I think that in general, most of the Covenant systems should be
• 1:05:22
  shut down there going to be replicated within in some of
• 1:05:27
  them. Are going to be replicated in
• 1:05:31
  our new talent trees, and I would like for those to migrate
• 1:05:36
  into talents and stuff. So the legendaries should sort
• 1:05:39
  of shut down. The, the talent trees should
• 1:05:44
  should take over the Covenant. Abilities is where I'm mixed on.
• 1:05:50
  I think that your classes, Covenant ability should shut
• 1:05:55
  down, but the signature ability for each Covenant.
• 1:05:59
  Should remain active while you are in the shadowlands and this
• 1:06:03
  is for two reasons. One.
• 1:06:06
  They can say, hey, you know what?
• 1:06:07
  The veil was repaired. There is no hole above icecrown,
• 1:06:12
  Citadel leading into the shadowlands or power can't go
• 1:06:15
  out into the world. Right?
• 1:06:18
  And it's also sort of severed your connection a bit, but we
• 1:06:20
  still have a lingering connection.
• 1:06:22
  So it's weaker. Why am I going through hoops has
• 1:06:25
  to justify this? Well, because I think that as
• 1:06:29
  you are doing your leveling stuff through the shadowlands,
• 1:06:32
  you should still gain some of the the ability it should.
• 1:06:36
  We'll be there because it's part of the story and to is that in
• 1:06:42
  fact, one of the abilities, the Venter ability.
• 1:06:47
  You actually do need to move forward in the quest stuff and
• 1:06:53
  it was just cool to you know, use the door Shadows to like
• 1:06:55
  climb mountains and ZM and so forth.
• 1:06:57
  So I think that I think they should keep some of it to show.
• 1:07:03
  Hey and these are things, that shouldn't be it in the talent
• 1:07:06
  tree. I don't think that the ability
• 1:07:09
  that they gave to every class belong to any particular class
• 1:07:13
  to be put into your talent tree. And so I think that those are
• 1:07:19
  relatively safe in terms of balancing in terms of having
• 1:07:22
  some of the power actually go beyond what you what the
• 1:07:27
  expansion is that you earned it in.
• 1:07:30
  So that's, that's where I would put that.
• 1:07:33
  Here's lives. Spicy.
• 1:07:35
  Take. Of the episode T.
• 1:07:37
  MC are. I just want sole shape
• 1:07:40
  collectors to suffer. Oh, see, and then you get to
• 1:07:45
  kill it. Keep your soul shape.
• 1:07:47
  Everybody who collected, all their soul shapes would get to
• 1:07:50
  keep it. I am a genius.
• 1:07:53
  I am a genius. I wasn't even thinking about
• 1:07:56
  that and yet I have solved the problem.
• 1:07:58
  You can thank me later, guys. Make sure you send all your
• 1:08:02
  wonderful. Wonderful, gold dollar donations
• 1:08:04
  to my bank alt, I'll give you the information later.
• 1:08:11
  With that said, we have one last question that we want to take
• 1:08:14
  and this one's from Goblin graphics and Goblin ass.
• 1:08:19
  Something a little fun with the future of warcraft's Ip
• 1:08:23
  expanding, what less featured character.
• 1:08:27
  Could you see starring in a different game genre and the
• 1:08:33
  examples given our detective liadrin from a Nor mystery.
• 1:08:40
  Mmm, the other ones one that I personally love mekkatorque
• 1:08:47
  versus gazlowe in a Mecca. Building / fighting simulator.
• 1:08:52
  I would, I would love that so much.
• 1:08:57
  Okay. I, I know they had this in like
• 1:09:01
  Heroes of the Storm. They had that like a little
• 1:09:03
  fighting game that you can sort of see.
• 1:09:06
  I would love that fighting game. I would.
• 1:09:08
  Play the crap out of garage Hellscream in a fighting game
• 1:09:12
  just like ultimate is like berserk.
• 1:09:16
  So he like unleashes the Hellscream and go and does like
• 1:09:19
  heavy damage but takes more damage.
• 1:09:20
  I I used to play good amount of Street Fighter, back in the day.
• 1:09:27
  Did you used to like myself some tech?
• 1:09:30
  And so this is this is what I'm thinking.
• 1:09:33
  Did you ever play a game called hakan?
• 1:09:37
  Hawken. Yes.
• 1:09:38
  No, so it was it was it was like a like a battle arena shooter
• 1:09:42
  kind of game but here's the here's the catch.
• 1:09:46
  You're in Mexico. It's So it's like a like a like
• 1:09:52
  a gun domestic a tag as low give me mekkatorque thing.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah, like that's that's what I'm envisioning.
• 1:09:58
  I'm envisioning. Something like like Hawken where
• 1:10:01
  you're going around in a battle arena and like you you have like
• 1:10:04
  a shop and you get to build your mech suit and your, you know,
• 1:10:07
  you like you choose whether you're with your a goblin or a
• 1:10:10
  gnome and and you're going in and you're building your
• 1:10:14
  tinkering with with your mix suit, and then you take your
• 1:10:18
  mech suit, and it's Is that you, you like, kid out on your mech
• 1:10:23
  suit, you're going out into a battle arena.
• 1:10:25
  Like I just love the idea of that.
• 1:10:27
  I do not like, I do not like the level of tech that is in the
• 1:10:34
  World of Warcraft universe, but I am here for this game
• 1:10:38
  specifically. Oh, do you hurt?
• 1:10:43
  Okay. I'm still on my fighting games
• 1:10:45
  for your members. Street Fighter vs.
• 1:10:47
  X-Men. Oh, absolutely.
• 1:10:48
  Absolutely. Okay, I could just so see like
• 1:10:52
  gazlowe and mekkatorque shouldn't doing like those
• 1:10:55
  screen wide legs are being. Oh, yeah.
• 1:10:57
  Absolutely. I would like to see a
• 1:11:08
  infiltration sort of Metal Gear Solid Style game where you're
• 1:11:14
  like infiltrating all the way through Stormwind, but you are
• 1:11:19
  like various Rogues. So like defias Brotherhood Rogue
• 1:11:24
  or like really invest their boss just like various rows trying to
• 1:11:31
  get into Stormwind and going through the different districts
• 1:11:33
  and it could like build out the districts and such.
• 1:11:36
  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 1:11:37
  Oh, that would be a lie, because you can play as but Aisha very
• 1:11:41
  Isa. Oh gosh.
• 1:11:48
  More roads, more rudes not is Tessa Rogue.
• 1:11:53
  Yes. Test creaminess heroic has green
• 1:11:56
  beans Rogue. There you go.
• 1:11:57
  Now you girls test G CD. Yeah, and then just randomly
• 1:12:03
  they put in a torn Rogue because that's a thing now.
• 1:12:07
  Yeah, that was that, I guess that was news.
• 1:12:09
  They announced that hey they're breaking down.
• 1:12:11
  All these movies are Class race combinations.
• 1:12:18
  So now we're going to be getting torn Rogues.
• 1:12:21
  Every class is going to be able to do Rogues Mages.
• 1:12:25
  And what's the last one? I'm forgetting about.
• 1:12:28
  I think everyone was able to do Warrior.
• 1:12:31
  Warriors already a thing. Yeah, even though I felt like
• 1:12:34
  but I wasn't being able to do it and gnomes and maybe Goblin
• 1:12:39
  Daddy and goblins, was it not something?
• 1:12:42
  It was really I think it, I think it most priests.
• 1:12:43
  I think it's priest. Yeah, like, I'm pretty sure it's
• 1:12:46
  Broken Age and Priests. Yeah.
• 1:12:50
  I mean, I'm personally not a fan of this, but it's happened.
• 1:12:54
  I will write my Angry emails in later.
• 1:12:57
  But once it's done, you can't undo it, right?
• 1:13:00
  I mean remember, Sure. I remember last time I was
• 1:13:03
  talking about night elf Mage has and I got a tweet out being
• 1:13:08
  like, you can't do that to my character.
• 1:13:10
  I need. I like, what you say, but you're
• 1:13:12
  dead wrong about this and you know what?
• 1:13:14
  I'm wrong about that. Once it's out there.
• 1:13:16
  I'm not going to take your character away.
• 1:13:18
  Your character has a story that you have for it and it is
• 1:13:23
  utterly legitimate. No matter how much I might
• 1:13:26
  protest against it. Maybe I should go find out that
• 1:13:31
  You like tweeted at me like that, but I couldn't say
• 1:13:33
  anything because they made that character.
• 1:13:35
  They had a headcanon blizzard had said that this is possible.
• 1:13:40
  And so it's there, it's perfectly valid.
• 1:13:41
  And now we're going to have people just being like, silent
• 1:13:45
  beef, clippity-clop looking around and be like, stealth
• 1:13:50
  ninjas, who knows? We here at for Azeroth.
• 1:13:54
  Are not trying to yuk your yum. Oh, and with that, which I
• 1:14:05
  cannot do any segue for. So, we've had the best Segway
• 1:14:08
  and there were Segway. We're gonna wrap this up here.
• 1:14:13
  So guys, thank you so much. If you like our show despite
• 1:14:18
  terrible terrible jokes from live.
• 1:14:21
  You can give us a five star review over at Warcraft radios,
• 1:14:27
  podcast directory over at the iTunes or on Spotify.
• 1:14:33
  And if you hate what live did just ignore, what I said, don't
• 1:14:37
  go there and it's fine. Otherwise, It is the best way.
• 1:14:46
  We have a different opinion. Anyways, it is truly the best
• 1:14:51
  way to support the show. I do want to thank we got a new
• 1:14:53
  five-star iTunes review on the US tour that you did not leave a
• 1:14:58
  comment. So I unfortunately cannot tell
• 1:15:01
  who it is, but thank you. I did see it again.
• 1:15:07
  If you want to track Us Down live, where can people find you
• 1:15:10
  on the internet. You can find me on Twitter over.
• 1:15:15
  We're live. You can also find me on the
• 1:15:17
  latest episode of Q for fun, which just came out a couple of
• 1:15:20
  days ago. I joined the lovely ladies over
• 1:15:23
  there and had a wonderful time, talking about a whole slew of
• 1:15:29
  things. But more, most importantly
• 1:15:31
  talking about abortion rights, and a whole bunch of stuff
• 1:15:35
  around that. So if you're interested in
• 1:15:37
  hearing our opinions on that, and also talking a little bit
• 1:15:41
  about video games, go check out Q for fun.
• 1:15:45
  I had a lot of fun doing it. But other than that you can find
• 1:15:49
  myself and Manny and a whole bunch of other wonderful.
• 1:15:52
  Wonderful people over an hour Discord server, which you can go
• 1:15:56
  to by typing in bit.ly slash Fez Discord into your your internet
• 1:16:03
  browser of choice. It's wonderful.
• 1:16:06
  But other than the Discord server, many, where can people
• 1:16:09
  find you. So you can follow me over on
• 1:16:13
  Twitter. That is True Villain.
• 1:16:15
  Manny true without the E & 4 as off is part of Warcraft radio.
• 1:16:20
  You can check out Warcraft radio.com to find the show notes
• 1:16:23
  for this show as well as finding a bunch of amazing shows like
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  Berserker rage over at Unshackled Fury.
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  And we have mentioned several times Raven and EJ over at ggw,
• 1:16:38
  and of course the awesome team over at Heck PVP until next
• 1:16:44
  time. Guys, may all your hits secrets.