Latest / Christian Mix 106 On Demand / Upright Christian Parenting - Treehouse Storytelle... - Save a Seat for Charlie | Lucas Miles on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and TPUSA Faith

Transcript

Upright Christian Parenting - Treehouse Storytelle... - Save a Seat for Charlie | Lucas Miles on Charlie Kirk’s Legacy and TPUSA Faith · Christian Mix 106 On Demand

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Hey friends, welcome to the Upright Christian Parenting Podcast,
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season four, part of the Treehouse Storyteller family, and I'm your host, Hannah Peru.
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This is your place for upright parenting in today's sideways culture.
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We don't tiptoe around hard truths around here. We tackle cultural issues head
0:27
on, build a bold biblical worldview, and equip you to lead your flock with courage.
0:33
Our kids are being discipled by something, so let's make sure it's us.
0:36
Grab your coffee, lace up your shoes, and let's raise kingdom arrows.
0:44
What if your child's biggest worldview questions could be answered before they
0:48
ever step foot out into the world?
0:50
Creation Without a Bang is my brand new children's book, helping families reclaim
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the truth of Genesis once again in God's intentional design.
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This powerful story reminds children they are not the product of random chance,
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but the handiwork of a purposeful creator.
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Endorsed by Sam Sorbo herself, this book is equipping the next generation with
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truth, wonder, and confidence in God's Word.
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Order your copy of Creation Without a Bang today at thetreehousestoryteller.com.
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Hey guys, welcome back to Upright Christian Parenting. Today I have my brother,
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Lucas Miles. He is a vice president of TPUSA and head of TPUSA faith.
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Yes, a little bit of a mouthful, but yes, that's correct.
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So I'm, I'm very excited to sit down with you. We don't get to be in person
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very often to do this. We were going to do it remote, but I'm like,
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Hey, I'm in town. Let's knock this out.
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Um, and this is going to be, you know, I think kind of a.
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Uh, you know, more emotional, uh, conversation we're going to address,
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you know, really coming up on the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom and,
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you know, really what that has meant to our nation, to you personally, to, uh,
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Turning Point USA and, you know, really just what that means for us as,
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as parents raising kids in this generation and the culture that we're in today.
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And so I want to address a lot of that. And, um, there's, there's no easy way
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to just dive into this topic, especially. Um, but first of all,
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why don't you just give us a little bit of what you do at Turning Point? Yeah.
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So I've been, uh, I've been at turning point for gosh, I guess going on,
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um, two and a half years, almost, um, Charlie brought me in,
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uh, originally I had no intention of working for Charlie Kirk.
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I had met him in 2020, uh, respected him, uh, didn't know him very well,
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you know, had a slow build to our, to our relationship.
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Um i ended up having him on my podcast show at the time and to kind of just
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feel out really like is this guy legit i knew he was smart i knew he had the
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right answers but i was i was interested like where he was at a heart level
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and i was very impressed with him early on
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and the more i got to know him the more i realized that the guy that you saw
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on all the videos was even better
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behind the scenes in person and and so um.
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I uh i he ended up getting a hold of one of my books brought me into a pastor
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summit for turning point.
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Um, I did a couple of different TPSA faith events. We did a sit down together
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where he interviewed me on my book, woke Jesus for about an hour and a half
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at dream city church for one of our freedom nights, we call them.
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Uh, and that was a partnership event that Charlie had started with a local church there in Phoenix.
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Um, and then, uh, I ended up doing a show, um, on, it was in the end of May, 2025. Okay. And yeah,
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Charlie had pulled me aside afterwards and a couple of the other leadership team was there.
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Yes. No, I'm sorry. May of 2024. Yes. It's a minute. Time is.
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Yeah. I had to think for a second. No, thank you for the correction.
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Yeah. It was, it was the end of May, 2024.
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And we, so we chatted and he was like, Hey, I want to pick your brain.
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I'm thinking about bringing somebody on for TPSA faith.
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And he's like, they need to be this, this, this, and this, the culture at turning
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point, like I, it's, you can't really describe it to somebody from the outside,
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like the pace at which we operate.
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It's insane. Like the, sometimes I just sit back and I'm like,
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are we really doing all of this?
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You know? And it's, it's crazy. So that most people coming from a ministry background,
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it's too over. Like they literally break like in the first week,
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like they can't handle it. Yes. And, but it doesn't stop.
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Yes, exactly. That's a good, that's a good illustration. And so,
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um, so he was like, they need to get theology. They also need to understand
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like our hustle culture that we have here and just urgency and everything else.
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So I was like, okay, you need the right person. I said, here's the traits I'd be looking for.
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And I said, who's your candidates? And he's like, I don't have anybody yet.
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I was like, well, find some people and then I'll come out here on my own dime
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and I'll help you bet on my, so let's make sure you get the right guy.
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So he's like, I might take you up on that.
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So he calls me a month later. He was like five or six days before,
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um, the first assassination attempt on president Trump and Butler.
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Yeah. And, uh, he, he said, Hey, I think I'm going to need your help.
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And I said, okay, great. I said, do you want me to do this over like Google
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meets or do you want me to like come out?
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What's the best way for you? And he goes, what are you talking about?
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And I said like for the candidates to like talk to him. And he goes.
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I don't know what candidates you're referring to. And I said,
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like, are we talking about the head of the faith position? You have candidates
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for this. You want me to bet?
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He's like, no, you misunderstood. He goes, there's no candidates. It's you.
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And so I was like, okay, that was not the deal that we like worked out.
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And, but I knew as soon as he said it, it was a divine assignment and that it
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was something that, you know, I was supposed to do. You had like no time to give him an answer.
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It was really, yeah, he went, he called me on either a Sunday night or Monday
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night. I think it was a Monday night.
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And it was right before the 4th of July in 2024. And so the 4th of July was
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like Thursday or Friday.
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And I said, how much time? And he goes, I want to know if it's a no.
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He's like, tell me right now.
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He goes, if it's a maybe, then let's talk at the end of the week.
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And he goes, if it becomes a no by the end of the week, he goes,
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I want one chance to talk you into it.
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And Charlie's was really good at talking people into things.
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And, um, and then he, yeah. And he said, if it's a yes, like I want to get started right away.
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And so, um, you know, it was, it was, but I think he knew, you know,
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and I've, I've since been able to talk to Erica about that moment,
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kind of everything since then, and just to get kind of the behind the scenes
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of like, when he first told her like, Hey, I think that, you know,
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Lucas is the one that's supposed to do this.
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And, and so I, I, I, it was very, it was an honor in my life to be able to,
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to serve him in that way and to spend, you know, we had about 18 months together
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on the ground, kind of in that role, you know, underneath his leadership.
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And, you know, I'm 15 years older than he was. And I'd like to think that,
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you know, he, I was able to impart a few things unto him, but honestly,
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he taught me so much and, you know, just was
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just a great example of a visionary, a leader.
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And there are things that, you know, we talk at Turning Point about the Charlie
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voice in your head of like, when you're in situations, there's kind of that,
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that voice of urgency, that voice of like dream bigger, that voice of like,
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we can do the impossible, all those sorts of things that he was so good at.
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And so, um, yeah, so I've been there now, uh, uh, you know, going on two and
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a half years and, um, you know, I started, uh, when I came in,
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we had 3,200 pastors that we worked with. We're now over 12,000.
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So we've had almost, you know, really over four X growth, um,
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in the department. Same with the staff. I started with 21 staff members
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I'm at something like, you know, around 80 right now that I have underneath me.
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Can you name them all right now? No, I can't. I can't at all.
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I haven't even, there's a few I haven't even met yet. So.
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I have a team member underneath me who probably could name them all.
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But no, I can, I know our full-time guys that are there.
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Some of those are part-time. So those I'm still meeting. And it's always great
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to meet our team across the country.
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You know, we have just the best team. I mean, our full-time core staff are just incredible.
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And I really, I refer to them a lot. They're sort of like the Navy SEALs of the Christian world.
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You know, they're just on there in front lines, going out and making it happen.
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Very elite from an ability to execute like assignments and intention and the mission.
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And they're really on point about, you know, they want to see the church strengthened.
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They want to see pastors stand strong. They want to see, you know,
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us confront these cultural hot button issues, you know, head on there.
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And so they're doing a great job, honestly. And so it's a joy to lead that team.
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And so, but our focus is to eradicate wokeism from the American church,
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to help unite the church around primary doctrine, to activate kingdom citizens
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so that, you know, when you look at the stats, 50% of Christians aren't voting.
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That's a problem. And so we want to see that changed. And, you know,
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we think that politics is downstream from theology and culture.
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And so if we can impact theology and culture, we think that eventually,
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you know, changes the course of the nation.
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Oh, no, I have 20 questions right there.
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Um, so back up for a second, you had mentioned, you know, being kind of that a little bit older,
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role in Charlie's life, but how much he taught you, what are some of those really
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impactful things that you're just like, oh man, like, I'm so thankful that he
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instilled this in me or he challenged me or pushed back on this.
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Yeah. Charlie had opportunity to spend time with, I mean, the most elite leaders
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in America, on a regular...
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These were people he called a friend. You know, people,
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President Trump, people like J.D.
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Vance, Marco Rubio, Elon Musk.
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So many business owners that aren't necessarily household names,
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but these guys became major supporters of Turning Point that were leading massive
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companies that Charlie had spent time with that had mentored him early on.
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Even our board members are incredible strategists and business owners in many
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cases or, or leading attorneys.
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And then you have people like the, on the faith side, like, you know,
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being able to spend time with guys like Jack Hibbs and guys like, um, uh,
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you know, uh, like David Barton and, you know, um, and then,
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um, you know, a lot of the, uh.
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Just, you know, kind of strong warriors for the faith out there.
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And even some of the more modern guys like Sedra or, uh, or the Sedra is really,
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there's a whole, there's a whole tribe of them. Yes. Yeah. There you order those
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guys in bulk when they show up.
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Um, and, and, you know, there's, um,
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uh, there's just such a deep bench of names that have been in his life.
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And, you know, he was friends with everybody and, and that's not even counting.
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Like at times it'd be like an athlete or a Hollywood person or whatever that
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would reach out to him privately that he would be able to connect with.
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I mean, I'm, I'm sure like Charlie just had a, he had just a, you know, a, uh,
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kind of a, a Rolodex to use an old person's term on his, on his phone,
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just a, that black book of names that, that, yes, right. You're right. Yeah.
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For all the gen z out there that uh i literally was on stage the other day and i said map quest
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and i was like and i was like i literally don't use map quest for the record
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but like it just like came out i was trying to think of like you know just put
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it in apple maps and i said map quest it was awesome um so um.
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You know so i mean he he so he got all those lessons at a really early time period and so it was like
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he was able to condense that and bring that down the chute to us You know,
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he was always looking for ways, you know, to to make turning point faster,
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stronger, more efficient.
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And to be able to get us to, you know, really hit our goals even faster than we were.
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And that wasn't a one time event for Charlie. That was an everyday event for
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Charlie. And so and but he was he was great at pouring in the team.
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He was great at encouraging the team. And like Charlie could look at you and
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just say something like, let's think bigger.
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And that would send a staff member into like a three-month push to like do something
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giant and it just like these this way of motivating people with very simple short,
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you know commissionings that that um you know he did he did so well so,
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iron sharpens iron yeah yeah for sure yeah i don't think we push each other enough.
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I think we're always worried to offend or human capacity is greater than what we think it is.
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And Charlie understood that. And he saw that. I always say he was in the business
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of finding and developing gladiators, you know, like everybody on the team,
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when you look at the people he's brought together and our executive team has
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remained, you know, virtually unchanged since he was there.
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There's one new addition the team's grown to that was um
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there uh that came on after uh 9 10 but even he had an opportunity to meet charlie
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ahead of time and and you know connect with him on multiple occasions and so
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everybody in our executive team has that history with charlie,
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and and there's you know there's kind of that charlie voice in there and there's
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this call like we can do more and
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and we kind of have this joke of like there's always time on the clock at turning
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point like we always like nothing's ever impossible There's always time to be
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able to push more, do more, you know, promote more, recruit more, you know, go harder.
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And so and that's kind of how we operate. And the whole team kind of has that culture.
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It's very unique. I've been part of, you know, multiple organizations over the
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years and ministries and had front row seats on a lot of ministries.
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And I've never seen a group move at the pace at which Turning Point does.
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It's really it's really unique.
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From our very first days, America has been driven by the idea that hard work
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could lead us to the life we always envisioned.
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And today, honoring that legacy, college.
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Were out there for me. Our model of providing a Christian liberal arts education
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to those facing economic hardship hasn't wavered since 1906.
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Our students graduate debt-free through our work education program.
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They learn how to live a life guided by their faith, and as they begin their
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careers, they've learned how to take their seat at the table of influence and
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open the door of opportunity for others.
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Being an assistant principal has allowed me to pour into kids the way that people
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have poured into me and open up doors and opportunities to things that they didn't.
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So Charlie's book, Stop in the Name of God.
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I mean, everything that you were saying with just that push,
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the growing your capacity, as Cody and I always talk about.
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It's like this ability that he's taught me a lot about this.
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It's just being able to grow your capacity and say no to things that need to
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be no's, but yes to the full force, the things that are yeses.
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And and and yet charlie understood yeah the sabbath and he understood rest yeah
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so do you see that still playing a role,
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Yeah, there's still sort of a sense of like, I think probably certain team members
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are better at it than others, but there is still a drive. I mean,
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Charlie, you know, I mean, the reality is, is like.
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When you lose a founder and such a charismatic figure like Charlie,
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you know, it becomes, I mean, it leaves a massive hole.
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Those are not shoes that you're going to that you're going to fill,
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you know, the same way, you know, Charlie, as as Erica says so often, is one of one.
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And but I think that the, you know, early on, especially in the first several
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months after he was killed, I would do a lot of media interviews for us.
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And people would always ask me, you know, where's Turning Point go without Charlie?
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And I would my response is probably very similar today.
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And that is that we're not without Charlie. And I don't mean that in some sort
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of like hyper, you know, spiritual sort of way.
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But what I do mean is that Charlie left his DNA, his imprint,
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his ethos, philosophy, mindset on
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the core members of the organization and really on the downline as well.
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I mean, we have people that have, you know, just joined the team in the last,
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you know, year who are kind of boots on the ground, knocking on doors,
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clipboard and tennis shoe type of people that like they binge watch every Charlie
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video that you've ever seen.
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They've listened to every one of his messages. They may have never met him personally,
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but they get they get Charlie Kirk, you know, ideas and they bring that into the organization.
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And so, you know, that's really helping to, I think, direct us still.
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You know, as an organization and certainly in the faith department.
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And so, but yeah, this idea of just rest is so critical. I think the more we
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can take care of ourself and be able to unplug for a moment,
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and I'm not dogmatic about Sabbath, that it has to be on Saturday or anything like that.
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But I think getting time to,
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Like we have a holiday coming up on, you know, uh, you know,
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as in the date of recording here soon that like I get to unplug for a day and
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hopefully my phone is off and it'll be nothing. And then the next day we'll
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wake up early and we'll jump right back into it.
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And it just, that's the only way that allows us, I think, to be as productive
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as, as we actually are is, is maximizing a principle like that.
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It's again, it's not, it's not a religious dogmatic thing across the organization,
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but But I think that, you know, there is this intuitive nature of like God's
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given us principles to help us. And when you, when you take that rest,
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it makes a difference. Yeah.
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We come from a very workaholic grind, blood family, I feel like.
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Has that been really hard for you?
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Because it's really hard for me to like be able to apply. Oh,
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like hard to. Yeah. I was going to say, no, hustle culture is easy for me.
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Right. Exactly. No, I'm built for this.
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Exactly. I don't know. Yeah. So there is, you do like, I think that resting is an acquired skill.
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Um, there's some people that think they're resting. They're actually just doing
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nothing. There's a difference between resting and doing nothing.
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Uh, I think resting involves more thought. I think it involves more intentionality,
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you know, sitting on the couch and watching television is not Sabbath.
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You know, uh, it is, that is not, that's not really a time of rest.
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A time of rest to me is a book, a notebook, a thought, a, you know,
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a walk, a, an opportunity to really like get with me in the Lord.
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What I would call like, you know, Christie and I, in our lives call it like
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going to the mountain where you're getting some time to like,
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you know, hear from God to, to, you know, block out some of those distractions. Yeah.
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It is, it is, you're doing something intentionally and resting.
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It's, it's not, uh, it's not a, it's not an absence. It's just an absence of activity.
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It's a different type of activity that's there and it's rebuilding, it's recharging.
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It's, it's, uh, and I think that this is the message in Charlie's book.
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That's so, that's so powerful. Um, and you know, that, that I think it's been
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able to help a lot of people in this last year, but this isn't a new principle.
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And again, as Christians, you know, it's new covenant Christians.
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And it's like, we're not dogmatic about this. Charlie wasn't dogmatic about
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that in the sense of that it was a religious thing to him, I don't think.
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I think that was something that he understood the spiritual benefits.
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He applied it in a way for him, it worked best to kind of keep that on a Saturday.
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But he would say and does even in the book, if that needs to be a Sunday for
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somebody, if it needs to be a Friday for somebody, if it needs to be a Monday
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for pastors or something, that it's more about the taking time.
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Yeah, I see it as a relationship builder too. like a very relational not only
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you with god during that time but.
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You know building your family unit um between your husband and husband and wife
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or your children like really pushing it so yeah and i know charlie's talked about,
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um he has to basically call that it was the,
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the most important of the ten can or the most how do you say like the most um,
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neglected of the ten commandments Yeah.
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The enemy probably attacks it the most because it prevents you from fulfilling
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all the other ones if you're fired and just over...
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Yeah. When you get, yeah, when you get distracted or you get,
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you know, just kind of in, in hustle mode, you don't turn off or you're,
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you get in stress, you know, that's probably the bigger thing.
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Fear, anxiety creeps in all those other things. That's where,
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you know, temptation arises. That's where a lot of other problems can come from.
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And so I think that this, this, that reset is very important,
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like mentally able to do that.
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Well, I want to bring up something maybe hard, and then I want to talk about some other,
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exciting things coming up um but i know where you were you were supposed to
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be where september last well i mean,
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i had a vacation planned um i was with charlie um a week before to the day and
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we were at freedom night it was the first wednesday of the month of september um,
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and which actually just did back at dream city now i i host that event and we
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were there at um freedom night the guest was a friend of mine now nathan pinocchio,
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and charlie originally was not going to do that event because he was heading
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on his trip to asia and he had asked me to kind of fill in for it and which
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i had done one other time before uh for part of it but.
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Um you know he hated missing that event and he really loved it.
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It's kind of a built-in, it's kind of like home court for TPSA faith is Dream
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City Church. And so they've had just a great partnership with us for four years.
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And so Charlie would do that event first of every month. And,
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you know, 1,500 people or whatever were part of those, sometimes more or less.
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And right at the last minute, he said, hey, I think I'm going to be able to stay.
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Why don't I do the first half of the interview with Nathan? And then why don't
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you do the Q&A with the crowd? And I'll, you know, say bye and blitz off to,
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to the airport to catch my flight to Asia.
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And so we did that. So I could spend the day with him, um, leading up to that
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for a little bit. And then, uh, we were talking backstage and,
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and right before he went on, um, he goes, Hey, Utah next week, you coming?
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He's like, I want you there. Turf's going to be there. He's like,
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I want you in the tent with me. He's like, I think it's, I think it's gonna be really good.
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And um and i said and i mean literally i had this moment where i remember thinking like,
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should i cancel my vacation to do this because i hadn't i actually had not been with him,
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like in the tent at a tour stop yet and because i was typically doing my own
23:05
tour type of stops for faith you know and so we had
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pick up the mics that we were doing and prove me wrongs that we were doing and
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so i was kind of out there so we were covering the spread a little bit more
23:14
obviously charlie's were significantly more you know more well attended and and uh,
23:21
for good reason more attention behind it we were kind of just building that at faith,
23:24
and and so i said hey i would love to but uh remember i got vacation this next
23:31
week you know i was leaving the next day or two days uh later or something
23:35
and i said but if it's really important to you i said you know i'm sure we can
23:39
work something out and he's like no no no he's like you've been working hard
23:43
I don't think I had taken a vacation since I started the company,
23:45
you know, over a year, um, before that.
23:48
And, um, I guess almost a year and a half before that. And so,
23:51
uh, he said, do that. And he's like, why don't you come on the next one?
23:55
And so I, um, I was, I, you know, we ended up going to Aruba.
23:59
Um, so actually my last moment with Charlie was we were, uh,
24:04
he did his Porsche on stage and then he introduced me and then he walked off
24:09
stage and handed me the microphone as I walked on stage.
24:12
And I think we just kind of fist bumped or something as we walked by each other.
24:15
And so that was my last moment with him was kind of him handing me this mic,
24:18
which has, you know, been very meaningful for, for me and kind of my journey
24:22
the last, you know, year.
24:23
And, um, and so this last time I saw him in person, we texted a little bit while he was in Asia.
24:29
Um, and the thing that he was excited about, I had done some prep for him for,
24:34
um, one of the talks that he was going to give in Japan, um,
24:39
on the political parties in Japan.
24:41
And so there's a, without going too much in the weeds on it,
24:44
there's a political party in Japan that is very, um, uh, nationalist minded.
24:49
And so They're trying to, you know, prevent Japan from being what they're seeing
24:56
happen in some of these other countries that have had high levels of immigration
24:58
and evaded and taken over and they lose their identity.
25:01
You know, Australia, Canada, England being high on that list.
25:04
And so they were excited about bringing Charlie over there, kind of representing
25:08
more of that like MAGA, America First, like strong nationalist framework.
25:13
And, but the difference is this group in Japan, they're not Christian.
25:19
Most of them are Shinto or Buddhists in some form.
25:22
And so I did some homework. I talked to a couple of pastors in Japan.
25:25
I talked to a couple other people that were kind of specialists in that area
25:28
and kind of brought him like a little mini dossier just to help prepare him on.
25:33
Here's my notes at high level of like, I think what they need,
25:36
what I really encouraged them was, you know, this is an opportunity.
25:40
They're already on our team for the values of you know a constitutional um.
25:47
You know republic and liberty and freedom and protecting you know what you've
25:51
built and that nationalistic kind of seek the welfare of your nation type of
25:55
mindset that was so important you know for charlie,
25:58
and but i said the what they need is they need they need the base layer of that
26:02
what what actually sets the stage for that which is the gospel yeah and so the
26:07
last conversation i had with him was him texting me on the way home and just
26:10
saying, like, you're never going to believe it.
26:12
I just got done, you know, sharing the gospel. And he said with this just giant
26:15
group of Japanese leaders, and he was just so excited by that.
26:19
And it was it was something that he was very proud of, I think,
26:21
at that moment. And and it felt like we were able to work on something together
26:25
and and that it was, you know, delivered, you know, the, you know,
26:28
kind of that God timing on what was there.
26:31
And so obviously that was the last time that we had, you know,
26:33
communicated. And, um, uh, it.
26:37
You know, I was in Aruba when it got the news, my assistant called me and I
26:41
had, I'd actually been sitting by the, by the pool and just kind of,
26:45
it was a time of rest for us.
26:46
And I think I was reading a book and my assistant had told me,
26:49
he said, Hey, I'm only going to bug you if something really crazy happens.
26:52
And so when I saw the call, I was, you know, I was like, is this my family?
26:56
Is this what's going on? And then, you know, when I got on the phone,
27:00
he just said, Charlie's been shot and get home as fast as you can.
27:04
And, you know, in the it was it was almost like a moment like September 11th,
27:09
you know, 25 years before where you didn't know what that meant yet.
27:14
You know, when I first got the news, I didn't know Charlie's condition.
27:17
I just knew he was shot. I got upstairs, you know, got online.
27:21
I fortunately not see the video.
27:24
I saw kind of edited cuts of it later, but I actually was able to avoid seeing
27:28
the original cut of the video, which I'm I'm thankful for.
27:33
I, I, um,
27:36
But the first couple hours, really probably an hour and a half at least,
27:40
it was very unknown what his condition was.
27:44
And I know that there were a couple tweets that went out saying,
27:47
hey, we're optimistic. There's some, they've got a pulse and there's just some
27:52
messaging. I think that was just people playing telephone and kind of people
27:56
trying to do their best to keep updated on stuff.
27:59
And so it sounds like there was some sort of phantom pulse or something that was found.
28:02
Um and and you know but it was,
28:06
we felt so i mean we might as well have been in china i mean it was so far aruba
28:11
just felt so far away from the situation at that time,
28:15
and so we kind of fought our way to get a flight to get home um but in the moment
28:19
you don't know like is this is this a solo attack on him is this an attack on
28:25
everybody in the conservative movement is this a is this a um uh.
28:31
Is everybody turning point in danger right then and you know it created a lot
28:36
of like you know just that feeling of unknown and and fear and paranoia i remember
28:41
even though i wasn't there
28:42
i had trouble walking around tall buildings um for months after that and and
28:49
you know you're and even still like i can't see i can't see you know um
28:54
buildings without looking at roof lines And it just kind of like baked in now.
29:00
And then, you know, it just it there was disbelief. It didn't seem real.
29:06
And that's that's still something where, you know, you kind of like you move
29:09
through these phases of grief and it just still feels like, you know,
29:13
certain places when I go to the green room at Green Dream City before Freedom
29:17
Night, I expect to see Charlie. That's where I always saw him.
29:20
I expect to see him walking on campus at headquarters in Phoenix.
29:25
And, you know, when you don't see him in those places, it's just very, very bizarre.
29:31
But it's been like the fastest and the longest year, you know,
29:35
of my life, I think. Yeah.
29:38
Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing all of that. I know it's a lot.
29:41
Um, something I feel like he did so well at was legacy.
29:48
And so what is, what do you, what is your guys' mission at Turning Point Faith,
29:55
that you just really, really are like, this is how we're living this out?
29:59
Yeah, I think in the most simplistic terms, Turning Point USA exists to make
30:05
the most conservative generation of all time.
30:07
TPUSA Faith exists to make the most Christian generation of all time.
30:11
We know that in order to do that, we have to see local pastors stand strong
30:17
and, and preach the full counsel of God's word from the, from the pulpit and,
30:22
and to not be afraid. You know, I lost half my church in 2015.
30:26
Because I took a stand against some of the stuff I was seeing with Mayor Pete
30:30
at the time, some of the stuff I was seeing in the progressive church.
30:33
It's when I wrote the book, The Christian Left, and then later woke Jesus.
30:36
And that was really out of not just interest in the topic, but out of what I
30:40
was seeing on the front lines here in a city that was kind of Christian in name
30:45
only, but it really adopted all of this Marxist and progressive thought.
30:50
Um and and so you know we need pastors to be bold from the stage no matter the
30:55
cost now the interesting thing right now is bold churches are growing so usually i mean,
31:00
it doesn't mean it's always going to be like that there could be persecution
31:03
there could be more fear um but right now there is a reward for those who are
31:08
bold and that is growth and so the stronger we get now we can't be,
31:13
bold just for the sake of growth because that leads to just saying eventually
31:17
extrapolating into crazier and crazier things.
31:20
There's a sobriety and a sober-mindedness in the gospel that is the balance
31:25
of grace and truth working together in order to bookend the message.
31:31
And if you just elevate truth and you lose a concept of God's grace or mercy,
31:37
you will fall into error.
31:38
If you just elevate a concept of grace and mercy, you'll be very affirming,
31:42
you'll be very accepting, but if you lose truth, you're not going to have anything.
31:46
And so, you know, we have to have both of those things to operate.
31:48
But I always say that a pastor, if they're doing their job, they're preaching
31:52
the full counsel of God's word.
31:54
And they're equipping people to be able to think biblically in the,
31:57
in the boardroom, the bedroom and the ballot box.
31:59
And, you know, being able to develop a Christian ethic and all the spaces of
32:03
life from our family to our business, to, to, you know, how we use the talent of voting.
32:09
And I mean, the talent in the biblical parable sense of the term,
32:14
you know, that those things all have to play out. So we're laser focused on this.
32:18
We have, we do, you know, we're doing three pastor summits this year.
32:23
We have one coming up in Detroit that we're doing at the end of this month.
32:26
We have our Make Kevin Crowded tour stops. We have, gosh, pastor roundtables,
32:32
one-on-ones with pastors, pastor trainings.
32:35
We do have a Christ and Culture event that we're doing across the country where
32:38
local churches, we actually provide grant money for local churches to bring
32:42
in top-level, strong speakers.
32:45
And so you could have a church of 100 people watching this that say,
32:48
can we get help bringing in a speaker? Yes, work with us. We can help you.
32:51
And the cool thing is we don't charge churches. We're not collecting money from
32:55
churches. We're not taking up offerings at churches. We have the best donors
32:58
on the planet that are just saying we care about the local church and we want
33:01
to help support the efforts.
33:03
And we've been able to do some really incredible things. Yeah.
33:06
So you mentioned Make Heaven Crowded.
33:08
When are your next stops? Where? Where are your next stops? So our next stop is in Hawaii, Oahu.
33:16
And so we are going to be in Honolulu. I think it's September 20th.
33:21
And, um, we've got Bethany Hamilton, uh, from kind of soul surfer fame.
33:26
Um, we have, uh, girls gone Bible are going to be out there.
33:29
Nathan Pinocchio, uh, myself. I think there's a couple others,
33:33
uh, pastor, um, uh, art from, uh, I think it's word of life church out there in, uh, in Honolulu.
33:40
And we also have, um, stops coming up in there's two in Colorado.
33:44
We have, uh, one at Karis Bible college in November and Andrew Womack's.
33:49
I think that's November 13th. We also have one at Brave Church that's happening there in Denver.
33:54
I don't know the data of that off the top of my head. I'll find it.
33:57
We'll find it. It'll be somewhere, show notes or something. Next to the Rolodex.
34:01
Okay. Yes. Very good. Very good.
34:04
And so we'll be twice in Colorado for your audience out there.
34:07
And we still stopped in California, Oregon, gosh,
34:14
New Mexico, Tucson, Arizona. I mean, so there's a lot still developing.
34:20
And so, and then we're rolling these in the next year. So we're doing almost 30 stops in 2026.
34:26
We'll have probably 15 stops in 2027 that we'll do across the country.
34:30
And so going to hit the East Coast pretty hard next year.
34:34
But we'll we'll pepper them throughout. We did Alaska earlier this year.
34:37
We've done Portland, Maine, you know, Seattle. We've been all over the place. Yeah, that's awesome.
34:43
I see another thing rolling out for churches specifically.
34:46
Save a seat for Charlie. Yes, we have what we're calling a save a seat for Charlie campaign.
34:51
And that is in September. But I mean, obviously you can apply this at any time.
34:54
And the idea is that Charlie's life and legacy impacted so many people and got
34:59
them back into church or to church for the first time a year ago.
35:03
I mean, I know my own church.
35:05
We virtually tripled in size after Charlie was killed and after his memorial
35:09
really specifically. There was an awakening that happened in the memorial that
35:13
was unlike anything I've ever seen. And I think that most people that study
35:17
the church would agree with that.
35:19
I think there was more unity in the body of Christ after Charlie's memorial than even after 9-11.
35:26
And it led to kind of this personal revival. So people were shown to church,
35:30
buying Bibles for the first time, coming back to church. They'd been gone for a while.
35:34
And I mean, we have some really great leaders in our church that have just been
35:37
discipled over the last year that came in fresh on September 10th.
35:41
And what we're saying is save a seat for Charlie, meaning you were brought in
35:46
by Charlie's life and legacy a year ago.
35:48
Would you bring somebody else and kind of,
35:51
have that seat there available for them, uh, that you're bringing them to.
35:55
And so we think there's a great opportunity for churches to use this just to
35:58
help, um, you know, as an evangelism, uh, tool and, and opportunity for their people.
36:05
And, uh, there's no real benefit for us other than, you know,
36:08
we want Charlie's legacy just to continue.
36:10
And, and, and I think that of all the things that Charlie was a conservative
36:14
commentator, he was a strategist.
36:16
He was, um, you know, just a, a thought leader. He was a role model.
36:21
Um, but I think more than all of those things, I think first and foremost,
36:26
and it's what Charlie said himself, he wanted to be known for his courage and his faith.
36:31
And, um, and I think that this gives us an opportunity to remember him in that way.
36:34
So if the church wants to participate, they can reach out to us.
36:37
We have kind of little promo videos and, and, uh, tribute videos for Charlie
36:41
and everything else that you can play during service and, um,
36:44
and use that just as a way to, uh, just to build what you're doing there locally.
36:47
I think that's awesome. I think that's really cool.
36:49
Well, I'd love to give the last little bit of an opportunity for you to talk
36:54
about your latest book that Charlie actually wrote the foreword up.
36:59
Yeah. So, um, I put out a book called pagan threat and, um, uh,
37:04
it was barely at the last minute.
37:06
I approached him about doing the forward for the book and, um,
37:10
he, uh, he was able to write that.
37:12
Uh, I think I got it in August from him or, you know, uh, might've been,
37:17
might've been July, but it was, it was pretty quick. The book came out in September
37:20
this last year, um, did very well, ended up on a New York times bestseller list was number four.
37:27
Uh, thank you. And, and the, But the book really looks at this rise in pagan
37:34
ideology in America that was really once formerly dormant, or we could say dead.
37:41
And the question is, why has it come back? And so I look at in the book this
37:45
idea that this pagan revival that you were seeing, and I think that in many
37:51
ways the revival after Charlie and Christianity has been,
37:55
um, stifled a little bit of that pagan movement, but it's still very present.
38:00
Um, and where did this come from? I, what I conclude in the book is that it's
38:04
really a bought and paid for revival.
38:06
Uh, and what I mean by that is that Marxist ideology, um, is a parasite and
38:13
it needs a vehicle and it attempted to use the church as a vehicle for a season.
38:19
And it still does in limited quantities and pockets uh we see that in the progressive
38:23
church you see that in the priest with the rainbow you know uh collar or the
38:28
rainbow scarf or whatever that he has on uh or she has on or whatever in these cases,
38:33
and and that's this that's this marxist you know christian um hand holding that has taken place.
38:41
And but christianity is a really bad vehicle for marxism because if you are
38:46
if you're serious about blending the two and you actually look in the scriptures
38:50
the scriptures will refute marxist ideology,
38:53
and so you can temporarily use christianity as a vehicle it's almost like marxism
38:59
is a hitchhiker and it needs a car to get into and so
39:03
it can ride with christianity for a little bit but eventually you'll either
39:06
deconstruct from your christian faith entirely or which is what normally happens
39:10
or you'll confront the marxist ideas and you'll.
39:15
I think that for many of the people that we're seeing, we're seeing these Christian
39:18
leftists that are now getting to a point where they're actually post-Christian,
39:22
they're still using the form and the framework of Christianity,
39:25
but they actually don't believe that Jesus is,
39:27
you know, was, was God or that, you know, he rose from the dead or anything like that.
39:31
They just believe that Jesus rose from the dead as his teachings live on in
39:35
us. You know, it's kind of this more spiritualization of Jesus's words in such
39:40
a way that his real life doesn't actually, you know, the facts of his life don't really matter to them.
39:45
And it's just sort of a symbolic way to use Jesus as propaganda.
39:50
So that has a limited trajectory. But what we're seeing in paganism is paganism
39:54
does not have the same roadblocks for Marxism to be able to prosper.
39:59
And so Marxist ideology, because it already is sort of anti-Christian in nature,
40:06
when you get something like paganism, and if paganism becomes the vehicle that
40:09
it can kind of hitch a ride to, then it can take off.
40:12
So before, I mean, we've seen witchcraft in the world before,
40:15
we've seen black magic, and we've seen, you know, things like druidism and.
40:23
You know, worship of Greek gods and Nordic, you know, spirituality or something like that.
40:29
These are not new things. They've been around for hundreds of years, in some cases.
40:33
What we haven't seen is we haven't seen,
40:36
was Marxism plus paganism until recently.
40:40
And that is what's new. And I think that's what's really been fueled by some
40:46
Hollywood studios, by some, I think pop artists have really kind of put that on the map.
40:50
I think that, you know, you look at a lot of the female role models for people
40:54
today, whether good or bad role models, in many cases bad, but you think about
40:58
all the household named female pop artists that are out there.
41:03
And almost every one of them has talked openly about either considering themselves
41:08
a witch but carrying potions in their purses about casting spells on boyfriends
41:14
or girlfriends or whatever to try to manipulate situations,
41:17
and it's very difficult to think of conservative.
41:21
Christian role models for women that are literally household names yeah um probably
41:28
the closest we have today and because even
41:30
you know like you think about, you know, in our, in our audience,
41:33
you go, Allie Beth Stuckey, like Allie's amazing, but not everybody knows who she is yet.
41:37
Right. And so there, she's got a big following. She's grown a lot in the last
41:41
several years, but when we talk about household names for men,
41:44
you had Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump,
41:46
JD Vance, you know, um, you know, guys like Tucker Carlson, I think were at one time on that list.
41:53
Um, you know, Ben Shapiro, these were names that almost, if you said the name,
41:57
almost everybody in the country knew who it was. And then you had athletes it's
42:00
like Tim Tebow and other people.
42:02
The vast majority of those, at least historically, have maintained a Christian worldview.
42:07
And, um, though some have, have drifted from that, that, um,
42:13
that, you know, and, and they're also highly conservative for the most part.
42:16
So you do that same exercise for women, household names, AOC.
42:21
Kamala Harris, Taylor Swift, Beyonce, you know, um, with the exception of the surprise, you know, uh,
42:29
conservative sleeper of Nicki Minaj, you know, speaking out against Christian
42:34
persecution in Nigeria and, and, you know, coming to join us at FanFest,
42:38
it's been very difficult to think of.
42:40
Now though, I think have people like Eric Kirk, obviously this last year that
42:44
I think has been just a tremendous role model for, for young girls.
42:48
People like Sophie Cunningham, who is standing up against what's happening in
42:51
the WNBA and, and, you know, really trying to be a voice for,
42:57
for, you know, traditional values and, and, and women and young girls.
43:02
And then, you know, in Hollywood, you have somebody like uh sydney sweeney who
43:06
i don't know where her faith stands but she's at least not bowed to kind of
43:10
woke hollywood and is still sort of carved a path for herself and has become kind of a force
43:15
you know in that space i i think also people like riley gains who's you know
43:18
a conservator for ours who's gained some national,
43:22
you know um and you know and she's she's very well known um you know it's but
43:27
but it's hard to compete with kind of that taylor swift
43:31
AOC, you know, Michelle Obama type of names that are out there.
43:34
And so we've, we've got a lot of work to do to, to really impact people.
43:38
And so that was kind of the heart of the book. And I think that young women,
43:41
especially are disproportionately, um, affected by this pagan revival that's taking place.
43:48
You see this in the type of tattoos that people are getting,
43:50
you see this in type of books they're reading. I was just at a hotel the other day.
43:55
The woman. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that's chapter two of my book.
43:58
Right. And so, So, you know, you see that it's been a battle.
44:02
And so there's actually some alternative history that's been done,
44:05
kind of revisionist history with the Bible.
44:08
There was an early book called the Women's Bible that was put together by first wave feminists.
44:16
And it is sort of a rewriting of a lot of the scriptures in the Old and New
44:21
Testament that they perceived were oppressive to women, trying to give like
44:26
a new definition to them in a new context.
44:29
And it was sort of started. So when you look at feminism, feminism started as
44:34
an anti-Christian movement.
44:35
And a lot of times people give first wave feminism a pass and they'll say,
44:38
well, it just got bad when it got second and third wave. First wave feminism was bad too.
44:42
And you don't need to add to the, the gospel is already the most liberating
44:45
book for it liberate, it teaches liberation of slaves.
44:49
It teaches liberation of women. It teaches the liberation of men in the sense
44:55
of becoming who's God called you to be. Anytime we become, you know,
44:58
anytime we become more like Christ, we're becoming more liberated.
45:02
And that is something I think that's missed a lot. Yeah.
45:06
Yeah, that's so good. Where can we get your book? Obviously,
45:09
everywhere. Yeah, wherever books are sold.
45:12
We may have some at lucasmiles.org. You can check out our store there.
45:15
If not, you can go to Amazon. You can go to barnesandnoble.com,
45:19
christianbooks.com. Those three are usually the three big ones that are out
45:23
there. It was really hard to get when it first was made. Yes,
45:25
it went out of stock several times. We broke the printer. We can't.
45:30
I just talked to the publisher the other day here a year later.
45:32
He said it's still their number one or number two book at their publisher each week.
45:36
So that's, uh, it's been, you know, picked up some good momentum and I'm still
45:39
waiting to like, my goal is like, if I could see somebody reading it on an airplane,
45:43
like I want to like sit next to somebody that's like just casually reading my
45:46
book and not know that it's me, you know, sort of thing. Like,
45:48
Oh, what you reading? Yeah.
45:50
Yeah. How's the book? And you're kind of, maybe don't want to know if they're
45:52
like, I started, but it's kind of boring, you know, that's kind of the fear,
45:56
but no, it's, uh, uh, it's done very well.
45:58
I'm very thankful for that. I'm kind of, uh, I'm in a phase right now where
46:01
I'm trying to decide, uh, if I'm going to go into another one right away or
46:05
um you know what that's going to look like so uh,
46:07
that's that's something i'm in the middle of at the moment but um you know it's
46:10
very thankful on how that's done this last year awesome well thanks so much
46:14
for your time and for the conversation i know it's hard and.
46:19
What's a what's one uh closing note that you would want to give us that raising
46:22
kids today that you think in in light of charlie that um,
46:27
Yeah, I think I think the importance of having tough conversations,
46:30
you know, we we I think what what Charlie showed us in culture was that the,
46:37
the importance of having tough conversations that even though these things might
46:42
at times create conflict, even though they might at times, you know,
46:44
hurt somebody's feeling that it's worth saying the hard things and that it's
46:48
actually loving to say the hard things.
46:50
When you look at, you know, my wife and I don't have children ourselves,
46:52
but when you, when you look at, um, I think a lot of parents today,
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there's still this need to be liked by your kids.
46:59
And, and I think that your job is to guide them and grow them up in knowledge
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of the Lord in the scriptures with grace and truth.
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And you have to make sure. And I think that litmus test of like,
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am I offering both truth and this unconditional grace and love and mercy for them at the same time.
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And doing both of those things at once, it's hard, but it's always the right
47:22
answer. And so, you know, having those tough conversations, I would say is key. That's so good.
47:27
Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
47:32
Big fan of the show. Follow, subscribe, do all the things. See you next time. Thank you.
47:39
If today's conversation stirred something in you, if you're craving a little
47:42
more quiet, a little more presence, and a little more Jesus in the everyday,
47:46
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It's a four-week journey of seeking, gathering, harvesting, and abiding in His presence.
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Just one page a day, one prayer at a time. It's not about perfection.
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It's about coming home to Him.
48:00
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