Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Correctional Services Commissioner Matthew Varley says he's looking to recruit 60 new corrections officers as questions around staffing shortages continue

Transcript

NT Correctional Services Commissioner Matthew Varley says he's looking to recruit 60 new corrections officers as questions around staffing shortages continue · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You might recall through the estimates there was some serious
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: concerns raised about staffing numbers within the Northern Territory's correctional facilities.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Justice Minister Chancey Pak was unable to tell estimates how
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: many positions within prisons were unfilled. That same hearing revealed
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: that attrition within corrections had hit ten percent and workers
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: within the department had racked up thirteen million dollars in
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: overtime to make up for that short staffing. Now joining
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: me in the studio this morning to talk about the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: situation is the Northern Territory Correctional Services Commissioner Matthew Varley.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Good morning to you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Morning, Katie.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Commissioner,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: are you able to tell us how many staff short
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: are we right now across the Northern Territory within our
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: correctional facilities?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to be really clear on that.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: We've said right from the get going, since I've become Commissioner,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: I've been talking to staff and listening to their concerns.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: We absolutely are short staffed in the prisons and there's
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: more work for us to do in terms of recruitment,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: which I'll get to in a moment. But you know,
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: we work to a rolling our ridge of staff over
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: time each financial year. And the challenge we've got is
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: how our roster is built every day in the prisons.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: It's a demand based model and obviously it fluctuates based
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: on prison and numbers.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, for example, we build into that additional.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Work that we have to forecast each day, like hospital escorts,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: escorts to court, et cetera, et cetera. So the numbers
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: of prison officers that we need every day on the
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: roster does change. The question I was asked last week
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: is how many vacant positions do we have?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: And what I was trying to explain and work through
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: is the fact that we're working to a recruitment target
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: and a number of vacancies over an average period of time.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: It's a complex operating model. I get that. But you know,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: the Union has said to me quite clearly that they're
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: short staffed.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I agree. We're probably in the order of you know.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Sixty odd staff that I'm looking to recruit over the
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: next twelve months alone. If I can do more rastly,
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: I want to.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: So how come that number wasn't provided last week? Throughout estimates.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Well, what I was trying to explain at estimates and
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: the advice I'd given to the minister, is that we're
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: we're working to work out our attrition over time. We're
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: working to work out how many our officers, how many
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: roster slots we need to fill.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Plus we're working on trying.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: To trade off a very high rate of overtime, there's
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: no doubt about that against additional staff positions. Look, the
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: overtime number is high, there's no doubt about that, and
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: it was high last year too. My point has been
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: and from the time I started with the union, saying,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: if we can bring that overtime figured down through recruiting
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: more staff and putting more people onto the roster, we should.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: But it's an inexact science because the roster demands do change.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: It does sound incredibly high, though, I mean, thirteen million
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: dollars in overtime is an astronomical figure.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: It's very high, there's no doubt about that, and we
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: want it to be lower. What that means is my
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: officers in the prisons every day are working too many
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: long hours, extra shifts. And I've heard that loud and
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: loud and clear from our troops I guess the point is,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: this is not a short term problem in the making.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: This is a challenging situation that has arisen over time.
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  Speaker 3: We've got rising prison numbers over the last five years,
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  Speaker 3: and we've got an attrition rate which we just haven't
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: been able to match with recruitment. As we know, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: unemployment is at decades low. You know, we've tried our
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: best over the last couple of years to recruit as
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: many offices as we can.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: It's just a tough market.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: How I mean, how difficult does it make it? Though?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: In terms of the corrections officers that are there, in
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: terms of doing their daily jobs, are there situations where
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: they're unsafe?
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  Speaker 3: I guess my point is I have every confidence that
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: our officers are well trained and they do their best.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: We make sure that our officers have the equipment that
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: they need, in the training that they need, and I
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: back their judgment. I guess in terms of operational decisions
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: every day in the prison, yes, they're under pressure, There's
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: no doubt about that. I've been quite upfront when I
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: speak to them about that, and that's why I want
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: to recruit more staff in the year a head. Do
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: I want my officers working thirteen million dollars worth of
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: overtime every year. Absolutely not, but we need to make
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: sure we can ramp up that recruitment and certainly that's
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: what I'm focused on in the next four months.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Union delegates have said that corrections is dysfunctional at the moment.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Is that the case?
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Look, I heard that Katie and Phil Tilbrook and I
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: have a very good working relationship. I meet with him
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: probably almost every week, and we talk on the phone often.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: But this is one thing I want to disagree with
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Phil on because my argument is, yes, there's a lot
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: of challenges we have in terms of correctional operations and
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: some of the pressures I've just described, But to say
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: it's dysfunctional, in my view, I guess diminishes the work
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: that our officers are doing every day. There's a lot
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: of good work that goes on in our correction system.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Our officers do a great job under difficult circumstances, and
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I think they deserve better.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Commissioner, what work is going to be happening, you know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: when it comes to trying to recruit staff, because as
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: you've said, there's obviously a lot of them having to
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: do over time, we know that there is you know,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: those pain and conditions have a big impact. I'm assuming that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: You know, if we're realistically wanting to try and attract
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: people from other states to fill these jobs, or wanting
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to try and track people into these jobs, they need
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to actually be paid well and they need to feel
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: as though those conditions are good.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Look, i'd say our officers have some good terms and conditions.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: There's obviously an enterprise bargaining process underway at the moment,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: and I can't comment on wages policy and some of
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: the claims that our officials and unions are working through.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: What I would say though, is that being a corrections
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: officer is in the NT is a great job.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: It's a secure job, it pays well.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: It's you know, you can be a trainee correctional officer
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: graduating from our course and be straight away on a
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: package over eighty thousand dollars a year, and it has
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: an opportunity to do some remarkable work, you know, rehabilitating
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: offenders and making sure they're you know, got a new
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: start when they exit the prison system. But recruitment is tough, Katie,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: You know, why do you reckon? It's so hard, you know,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: I'll give you an example. Over the last three years,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: we've taken fourteen trainee intakes into our system, nine of
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: those focused on ALIS, four in Darwin and one combined course.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: With one thy and twenty four applications, we get down
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: to about one hundred and eighty three suitable candidates once
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: we go through gateways, fitness testing, literacy and numeracy, and
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  Speaker 3: other things like interviews, and ultimately we had one hundred
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: and thirty one hundred and forty odd commenced, so not
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: everyone who gets through even takes up the job. We've
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: recruited fifty five offices this year. I think we recruited
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: around about I'm going to say forty five forty seven
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: last year.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: We need to do more, There's no doubt about that.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: And so one of the first things I asked my
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: team to do when I took over was to say, right,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: what can we do to re invigorate our recruitment campaigns.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: And we've changed the way we do that.
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  Speaker 3: Instead of running a defined campaign for a particular period
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: of time, we're now open on a rolling basis.
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  Speaker 2: You can apply anytime you like.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: We're rolling new ads around the country, we're fishing in
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: other people's ponds.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely recruit them from other correctional systems well.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And that's the point, Katie.
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  Speaker 3: We do take on experience corrections officers from other jurisdictions,
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: and we've been reasonably successful successful at that. We've got
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: more to do, but I'd like to see us feel,
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: you know, three, maybe four classes easily in.
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  Speaker 2: The next year.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like we probably need to as well.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: If those attrition rates are as high as ten percent.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's an awful lot of correctional offices leaving
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  Speaker 1: every year.
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  Speaker 2: It is, it's about fifty.
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  Speaker 3: We have a workforce of around five hundred and fifty
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: odd correctional officers. Mind you, we have another workforce of
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: about two hundred and fifty other personnel in the organization
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  Speaker 3: as well.
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  Speaker 2: These are our community based probation and.
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  Speaker 3: Prole officers, some of our specialist clinicians, and our admin
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: support stuff. But I asked the attrition rate when I arrived,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: and that turns out to be around about eight percent
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  Speaker 3: over the last five years on average, and yes, ten
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  Speaker 3: percent this year is high, and you know, I'm concerned
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  Speaker 3: about that. I'm listening to staff express their concerns about,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the system what needs changing, and of course
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: the pressure that they're under. I want to that rate
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: come down obviously, you know, we'll work hard.
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  Speaker 2: To address that.
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  Speaker 1: Now, just talk me through because I know that one
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  Speaker 1: of the big concerns obviously, you know, when the correctional
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  Speaker 1: staffing numbers aren't as high as they need to be,
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  Speaker 1: is that some of those programs that are delivered within
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: those correctional services we're within those correctional services facilities, don't
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: happen our prisoners at the moment able to undertake different
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: programs which might actually help them with rehabilitation.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, they are, and we continue to do a few
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: things there, Katie.
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  Speaker 2: We have prisoners engaged in an employment.
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  Speaker 3: You know, they're out doing you know, some of our
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: open low rated prisoners are out doing you know, work
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  Speaker 3: in the community.
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  Speaker 2: Some of them have you know.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: Jobs, particularly at our Berkley and Datchelor work camps, but
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: here in Darwin and Nalla Springs as well. We have
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: community service work programs where our prisoners are out you know,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: working to mow pensioners lawns and do other things in
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: the community, which is really good work. And we have
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: a whole range of prisoners engaged in education and training
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: in our industries and our training division. So you know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: just to give you a sense, around eight hundred prisoners
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: last year completed, you know, various qualifications through a partnership
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: that we have with the Bachelor Institute. You know, they
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: do quals in everything from construction skills through to forklift,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: through to business. We even have a few students engaged
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: in higher education through university.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: So there's no there has been no limitations to people
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: being able to do programs based on staffing.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I would say is that we absolutely have felt
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: the pressure there because as we've had to manage rising
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: prison numbers and those staffing pressures. Yes, there have been
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: occasions where we've had to reduce or limit classes or
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: in some cases we haven't had enough staff to make
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: sure our prisoners are getting out to work. Obviously that's
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: something that my superintendents and their teams managed daily and
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: it's a difficult balance. But obviously as we manage that
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: recruitment try and build back up those numbers, we'll see
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: those stats improved.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Commissioner, I did just get a message from well from
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the former Independent Member for Nelson, Jerry Wood, a very
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: passionate listener and former politician wondering is the fruit and
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: veg garden and fruit and vege and the bakery is
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: still going at the moment.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: We have a horticulture section at Darwin.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: We have a bakery down in Alice Springs. I think
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: he's probably referring to I don't know, Jerry, but there
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: was a number of industry workshops, if you like, built
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: at both prisons over time. Now the bakery, as you
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: heard in estimates last week, has been closed.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: It's been closed for a while. There are a number
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of reasons about that.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: But I've been very vocal with the minister, and the
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Minister has been very supportive with me, saying we need
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: to do more to recruit specialized staff with industry skills
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: so we can reopen some of those particular workshops.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: So what do you reckon? I mean, how quickly do
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: you think that you could get things like that back
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: up and running.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, I guess Katie. I'm ambitious.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: I know I've got a huge task ahead, but this
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: is part of a twelve to three year you know,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: change plan that we're rolling out for corrections. Now, obviously
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: we're speaking about recruitment. I want to get as many
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: people through the door as I can in the next
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: six to twelve months. I'm going to be pushing hard
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: to recruit more before Christmas, but it's going to be
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: a tough gig and we've got a lot of challenges
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: in terms of getting those numbers. As I said, you
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: know the statistics that we're operating at about a thirteen
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: percent to fifteen percent strike rate of getting successful candidates
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: through the door.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: So I'm very focused.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: On making sure that our industries and our workshops are
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: back up and running. However, you've got to make sure
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: that we properly staff the rosters for the safety and
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: security of the prisons and my staff first and well,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: it's a careful, delicate balance.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: So by the sounds of thing things, I mean that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: recruitment and retention of staff, it is a really big
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: issue right now. And while you know you are doing
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: everything you can to try and manage it and to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: get more staff in there so those levels are higher,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: it is indeed having an impact on being able to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: deliver some of those programs and ensuring that you know
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the safety of your staff as well.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm not shy about that.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: There's no doubt we've got a challenge of recruitment and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: staffing against the backdrop of rising prisoner numbers. We have
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: about two to three hundred more prisoners in the system
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: than only a couple of years ago, right, So that
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: pressure is a delicate challenge that we've got to face. However,
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I'm very focused on making sure we've got the safety
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: and security of my staff first. The safety and security
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: of our prisons and prisoners obviously as a primary consideration.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: But you know, let's not take away from.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: The good work that our officers are doing in the
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: prisons every day to deliver programs in education. As I said,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: we've got more than eight hundred students in various training
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: calls throughout the course, throughout the course of the year.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Next week I'm going down to Alice Springs for a
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: prisoner graduation ceremony at the Bachelor Institute. And we've got
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: our community service work programs out in the field doing
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: good work in the community. Do I want to do more, absolutely,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: but there's a bit of recruitment.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: To do ahead.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: How many prisoners do we have in our correctional facilities
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: at the moment.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Today, we're at one nine hundred and twenty. Katie, look
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: that's a difficult, challenging number. It's a big population. It's
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: something that has risen over the last few years, but
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: that's not uncommon across the system in the rest of
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: the country as well.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And look, I know it's such a it is a
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: really difficult you know, it's a difficult portfolio. I guess
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: when outsiders are looking in, a lot of us have
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: not had much interaction with the corrections system, and a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: lot of us probably don't know a huge amount about
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: what goes on inside those correctional facilities. But I guess
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: what we all sort of want to make sure of,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the same as what we used to discuss and still
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: continue to when it comes to youth detention as well,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: is that when prisoners do go into those correctional facilities,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that if they are getting out, that they come out
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: better people, and that they're able to be involved in
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: those programs and different rehabilitation so that they can hopefully
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: come out better people with other prospects.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's when I talk to my staff. They
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: tell me that's why they join corrections, because that's the
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: sort of work they want to do to rehabilitate people's
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: life and so that people have a better shot at
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: getting back on track when they get out into the community.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: You know, obviously we.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Have you know, a very dedicated prison team that works
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: hard on that, as I said, through industries, training, qualifications,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: and therapeutic programs around behavioral change and you know, equipping
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: people with the skills around managing their emotions and some
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: of the challenges that brought them into prison in the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: first place. Then, of course we go out into the
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: community and you know, we have almost let's say, up
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: to one thousand offenders at any one time on a
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: parole or supervision order in the community, and we have
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: a very dedicated group of expert probation and parole officers
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: out there in the community every day helping people succeed
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: and get back on track.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: We are going to have to wrap up now, Commissioner.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I know you have just been in the role for
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: three months now, As I understand, it's certainly a busy
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: job to step into. What are you hoping to achieve
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in your time as the commissioner.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Look, obviously we've talked about recruitment today, Katie, but you
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: know we've been given an opportunity with government funding now
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: for a three year reform program and a big part
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: of that is going to be about improving our workforce outcomes,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: making sure we've got better health and rehabilitation outcomes for prisoners,
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: managing our systems and our processes to develop a more
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: modern and capable correction service, and also looking at our
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: infrastructure needs over the long term. So we're about to
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: roll out a very large reform change program over the
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: next couple of years. I'm certainly focused on making sure
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: that the NTCS is as capable and fit for purpose
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: and ready for the future as it can be. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty excited that we've got a really great team
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: and I've got good support from staff and the unions
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: as well to make that change well.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory Correctional Services Commissioner Matthew Varley, appreciate your time
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: this morning. Thanks very much for coming in.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks Caddie all the best.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you.