Latest / Serious Lady Business / You Built That? Challenging the Doubt, Dismissal, and Disrespect Women Face in Deep Tech
Transcript
- LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (00:03) Hey there, I'm Leslie Youngblood and this is Serious Lady Business, the podcast where we get real about what it takes to build a business as a woman today. From late night Google searches and client curveballs to the wins that make it all worth it, I'm talking about the stuff no one puts in the highlight reel. Each week, I'm bringing you honest conversations, lessons learned and stories from women who are out here doing the work. Messy, meaningful and unapologetically bold. Whether you're just dreaming about starting a business or deep in the grind, this podcast is your space to feel seen, supported, and fired up. Because let's be honest, this journey is hard, hilarious, and absolutely worth it. So let's dive in. Leslie Youngblood (00:49) Welcome to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist, and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing, media, and content agency. Today's guest is Jill Mari Embry. She's the founder of Balance Innovation Center, board advisor and mentor to startups, and an entrepreneur with a focus on supporting underrepresented groups in medical device development. Leslie Youngblood (01:11) We are discussing You Built That? challenging the doubt, dismissal, and disrespect women face in deep tech. Now, today's episode, we're gonna be drawing from Jill's real life experience of actually being asked if she came up with her own invention, which is completely ridiculous, yet obvious, makes, I feel like it's not that surprising considering the world that we live in. And so we're inviting you into a no BS conversation about credibility, ownership and bias in innovation. So Jill, I would love to kick off with a question for you. What inspired you to launch the Balance Innovation Center and what gap were you most passionate about filling? Jill Mari Embry (01:51) So I have been in the medical device industry for over 20 years and I have had good companies that I've worked for where I felt respected and then I've had a lot of majority where I might have been respected by some but there was always at least one person that was a problem. And you know it's very simple, you I want to go to work. be innovative, be able to do my job, not have to mute my voice because if I question someone or if I want to speak out, then I get belligerence or hostility towards me. And so I talk to other people who have had... know, underrepresented groups in the medical device product development area who've had similar experiences and thought, you know, there's got to be a better way. We should just be able to do our job. So that's really what motivated me. I had the last company I worked for where I wasn't doing contract, but I was actually an employee. I was responsible for running product development. had engineers that didn't want to report to me that were male. Leslie Youngblood (02:45) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (03:01) ⁓ I saw lot of belligerence when I questioned things from people who reported to me. And so that's really, it was like that was my last straw. Leslie Youngblood (03:10) Yeah, yeah, understandable. You worked across multiple sectors, healthcare, clean tech, engineering. How did the bias show up across differently or similarly in each? Hmm interesting Jill Mari Embry (03:23) where in the United States, if I was working with a team in the United States, there was always that female bias. And it's interesting because my mom used to say to me, know, they're racist. And I'm like, Mom, they don't get there. Yep. Yes. Yes. Leslie Youngblood (03:30) Hmm. They don't even get there, they're just at the woman part, you mean? Wild. That's shocking. Jill Mari Embry (03:44) Well, it's not. It is and it's not. It's kind of like, yeah, it is. It's sad, but it's shocking. Leslie Youngblood (03:46) That's true. It is and it's not. That's why this podcast exists too, right? Because we know we're seeing this. You know, what has been, if you're willing to share it, what has been your most personally shocking experience as a woman innovator in medical devices or even in a previous position? Jill Mari Embry (04:02) been a few things that it's not so much shocking as much as and you want to say it's almost comical but it's the reality so it makes it very hard where you know I know I give a story about you know where I was pitching an invention of mine to a group of investors and engineers and scientists and literally had someone ask me and this it was like 50 plus people you know who really came up with this idea that was a while ago and so that Leslie Youngblood (04:09) Mm. Jill Mari Embry (04:32) That was kind of shocking, but more recently where we were, with this company I was working for, we were trying to solve a problem and I had come up with a very simple, clean, inexpensive solution, showed it to, had one of the people that worked for me prototype it and it worked. And literally watching the CEO of the company literally sit there and play with it during meetings. but they refused to accept the fact that it worked and that it was like the solution. Leslie Youngblood (05:01) Hmm, because it came from you? That is just infuriating. Jill Mari Embry (05:06) And I've had situations where I worked on projects where I put together protocols and where the manufacturing team was all aligned with my protocol, but because I had a peer that didn't agree with it that was male, Leslie Youngblood (05:22) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How did you deal with that? Like what in your experience besides, I mean, punching somebody in the face, right? mean, you know, right? Like you have to find a way to collaborate and get through and deal with that, you know, with those situations. How did you navigate that? Jill Mari Embry (05:41) You know, like I was saying in the United States where I've seen the majority of the issues, a lot of times you can't. You know, and you're kind of pushed up against a wall. You don't really have a choice. You know, it's been funny because there have been times where I've been in meetings trying to, you know, where I've been trying to make a point or say something and I've literally had to tell the guy next to me. Leslie Youngblood (05:47) Mm. Jill Mari Embry (06:03) you know, say this. And it's like, that's a great idea. Or, that's, know, yeah, we didn't think of that. And I've been trying to say it through the whole meeting. So that's one way I've gotten around it. ⁓ But apart from that, there's really, you don't have a lot of options. You can leave. And, you know, I was talking to someone that was involved in one of the companies I worked for and Leslie Youngblood (06:06) Mmm. Mmm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (06:29) You know, was, you know, this is what's going on and things aren't getting done. This isn't right. People have invested in this. It's, you know, someone needs to say something. And he's like, well, you know, you just find it. You need to find another job. And it's not that simple. ⁓ You know, especially as a woman, a female engineer, especially at a senior level, it gets harder and harder. Leslie Youngblood (06:45) No. Right. Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm build my own table. I don't need to be at your table anymore. I'm gonna build my own, right? Jill Mari Embry (07:00) Well, and it's interesting because I've talked to several women and several minorities who work in the industry, have been, you know, who are in, you know, a STEM industry. And, you know, I talked to them and they were like, man, I want to come work for you. And it's not even about working for me as much as the collaboration that they can actually be involved in because they have a voice. ⁓ You know, because I'm very... Leslie Youngblood (07:24) Yeah, right. Feeling seen and heard and like you're contributing and a part of it goes such a long way because you feel like insignificant and invisible and like you don't matter. And that's when you're giving your time on a daily basis to an organization, it's not just about the paycheck, it's about participating, right? Jill Mari Embry (07:41) Well, you don't go into it to just collect a paycheck. Engineering is not easy. And it's certainly not easy if you're woman or from one of the marginalized groups. ⁓ I've talked to black men and they're like, wow, I didn't know it was that much worse as a female. But they still have that, you know. Leslie Youngblood (07:45) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (08:05) not being heard or being marginalized in an organization is just not as bad. And so, you you don't do it, you don't put in the time, you don't put in the hours just to be sit there. And, you know, having reached the level that I've had, you know, I've worked hard. Leslie Youngblood (08:11) Hmm right. Jill Mari Embry (08:25) and still being just you know, I kind of had my Jill's version of a meltdown which is I need to talk to someone who will understand is a Jill meltdown and it was after talking to someone that I've known for over a year I constantly tell him that Leslie Youngblood (08:33) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (08:42) I'm a development engineer that helps startups really navigate that path from concept through product development to manufacturing following a regulated process. No matter how many times I say I'm a development engineer, people continually call me regulatory. And it's like I'm not a regular, I've never worked in regulatory. I've never worked. Leslie Youngblood (09:04) Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (09:05) That's not what I do. As an engineer, our job is to follow a process that's regulated. There are certain documents we need to create as engineers that are technical documents that regulatory people cannot create. But they still say, call me a regulatory person because they have such a hard time accepting the fact that I'm an engineer. Leslie Youngblood (09:15) years later, documents that regulatory people can't create, but they still say, he'll be a regulatory person. Mmm. Jill Mari Embry (09:30) So, you know, it's interesting and it's frustrating. Leslie Youngblood (09:33) Yeah, no doubt. In your experience, you work with startups. Why do you think male led startups often try to work around the FDA approval process? Or is that something that you've seen in your experience? Jill Mari Embry (09:46) You know, it's funny that you say that because you think that it's interesting that you know that, but it is a thing. And I think that, you know, it's a level of being used to, you know, just being able to get around things and get away with things where now, you know, for me, it's like it's just, you have to do it. Leslie Youngblood (10:06) Okay. Yeah. Jill Mari Embry (10:14) But it's very interesting, it's very frustrating because I've talked to women founders and I start going through, these are the things you have to do and they're like, okay, okay, and they're enthusiastic about doing things the right way. And I don't want to say that all men don't want to do things the right way, but the reality is the majority of male, and you know, I find that, you know, I work with a lot of founders that are male that are not from the United States, and they also want to do things the right way. Leslie Youngblood (10:31) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (10:48) But, you know, in general I think that American men have just, they're used to just being able to do things complacently. Leslie Youngblood (10:58) Hmm. Yeah, sure. Makes sense. I think that's very interesting for anybody listening right now, too, if you've had experiences with, you know, collaborating with teams from other countries and, you know, seeing how that compares, because I would never have thought that. I would never think that. I would think this is a global problem or it happens everywhere. And I'm sure it does. But it maybe is much more prevalent here. in the United States and maybe I just need to do some more traveling, Jill. I need to start getting some international clients too, right? But that's just so very interesting. I never have done that before. Jill Mari Embry (11:34) Well, and it's funny because I've had people say to me, you worked with a team from India, or you've worked with a team from Germany, or you've worked with a team from the Ukraine. And it's like, yeah, and they are respectful. Leslie Youngblood (11:47) Mm Yeah. You know, it's really interesting, too. I think there is even a fact and I'm not even going to try to say the fact, but I do feel like there is some fact out there that X number of other countries have had female presidents or female leaders in the United States still has not had a single female president in our, you know, how old we are now. And it's a travesty right in a true abomination of leadership, because you cannot tell me that there have not been. you know, X number of competent women who could be our president. If in the world there's all these competent, incredible women leaders leading these countries and we still have not had a female president, just that when I think about it from that perspective, I'm like, OK, this makes sense. So, yes, think about that, like how we haven't had a female president. All these other countries have had female presidents and female prime ministers and all this. It's like, of course, we have a sexism problem still here in America, amongst many other things. ⁓ But, know. Jill Mari Embry (12:38) Yes. Well, and it's interesting because as one of the things that we've considered because of the current climate in this country and anti-women, anti-minority, anti-brown person, we are considering starting in Mexico. And so many people are like, they're so misogynistic. They have a female president. She's a female engineer. Leslie Youngblood (12:50) Mm-hmm. They sure do. She's a... They do. Jill Mari Embry (13:02) You know, so where is it worse? We had a woman running for president here and you know, I've been appalled at some of the things that my right-wing friends have said that people would say to them about why Harris was not acceptable and how she got to be where she's at. You know, because as a female she couldn't have actually worked for it. Leslie Youngblood (13:09) Mm-hmm. No, right? Ugh. Let's not go down that long rabbit hole because I will get very, I think we'll both get very fired up. is like, Kamala Harris is a totally competent, credible female and I wish she was our president right now. So let that be said. Jill Mari Embry (13:31) It's like I'm saying she was elected. Yeah, but you know in Mexico we can have a female president but you think that Mexico is further back than us and one of the things that I've learned that's very interesting and this is kind of speaks to you know America has and it's not that I'm anti-American but I you know if you don't accept that there's a problem you can't fix it and you know you look at STEM and you look at engineers and you know Leslie Youngblood (14:01) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (14:09) 18 % of college graduates graduate in STEM. In Mexico, 25%. In the United States, 12 % of engineers are women. In Mexico, 20%. So, you and I know these numbers just because we've, you know, I had to, I'm not gonna go somewhere if I didn't do the research. But. Leslie Youngblood (14:13) Mm-hmm. Hmph. Wow. because you're researching Mexico to do business in Mexico. Yeah. That's so interesting. Right. I feel like why, I that's America. We have a problem. But I also wonder, we we are lacking that information or that perspective or like, is it because you think, we're the best or and when this and that and you know, it's like that maybe that American pride and patriotism. And then it's like, but wait, they're doing all these other things. Now, these other countries that I think, you know, are dangerous or, or that I would never think that would have those types of advantages. And so I just like, why is that an education problem? Is it a media problem? I mean, I feel like it's probably all of those things and more Jill, right? We would talk all day about it, but it's just, you know, quite shocking, I feel like. And I also feel like something that Jill Mari Embry (15:10) Yep, it is. Leslie Youngblood (15:17) breaks through like with yourself is doing business with people in other countries, traveling to other countries. So you start to see what life is like outside of the United States and that there are lots of really cool, amazing, incredible things and developments happening. We're not the BL and end all. And I think it's so frustrating too, because we see the opportunity and the possibility of America and what that means to us when we all can come together and we can, you know, black, white, brown, all, everybody, gay, straight, trans, like everybody come together and make us this shining star that we know that we can be. And I think that's like why I get so frustrated. you know, people that relate to that, like you, it's like, but because we could be so, we could, there's just so much potential and it's so frustrating, you know, that we like hold ourselves back by this patriarchal, misogynistic, blinders on culture that we have here. Jill Mari Embry (16:09) Yeah, you know, and it's, if you look at, it's amazing to me because if you look at our history, and you look at the history, you know, from the, every single time a group of immigrants has come into this country, they have been this, they're horrible, they're dirty, they're stupid, they're, know, throughout history, you would think that we would learn from that and say, you know, Leslie Youngblood (16:30) Why don't we learn? Why, Jill? Jill Mari Embry (16:33) You know, and then with Leslie Youngblood (16:33) Yeah. Jill Mari Embry (16:34) women, you know, there is a whole period of time where women aren't smart enough to vote and they can't do that. And women couldn't own property. Women, men could put their wives in psych hospitals, you know, lock them up in asylums really. I don't want to say hospitals because they weren't really hospitals. ⁓ You know, and yet now this mindset of women need to have babies and go back home and not work. Well, if you look. Leslie Youngblood (16:49) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jill Mari Embry (16:59) Over 50 % of college graduates are women? How are you going to send them? Leslie Youngblood (17:01) Mm hmm. Yeah, get out of here. Yeah, that's the last I mean, woman should be able to choose if that's what she wants to do. I'm so in support of that, right? You want to stay at home and be a mom. Amazing. I love that for you. But if you want to work and go and do that and be a mom and work or not have kids and work, please do like do you and you should have the equal opportunity and we should have. support in place for both of those things too. And you know, you were talking about the past and I saw recently that children were considered property, you know, a hundred years ago and children, you know, would would go to work in these factories and the bosses would, they would be burned, they would be exhausted, they would be starving. There was people that would abuse their children in the home and you didn't have child protective services to come and help these kids. And you know what, actually the group that helped bring about change in child abuse is the ASPCA, an animal rights organization, because there was some like loophole that they were able to figure out that a child was a property the way a horse is a property and they were able to take these people to court and the court ruled in favor of the kids, right? And like put the provider in jail and it was this big... made headlines all over the United States because of the first time that, you know, somebody was held responsible for the abuse that they inflicted upon their own child. And so it's like 100 years ago, we were thinking about all this stuff. And you're so right. Like when immigrants come in and they're they're dangerous, like the Irish coming in and the Italians coming in, it's like, what are we going to learn? I just and then I think people that think that how do you not correlate to you? So you want to be, you know. on the side of the people that hated all those people that were probably your ancestors, your Irish or German roots coming into it. just also, it's just mental gymnastics that just make my brain hurt. Jill Mari Embry (18:52) Well, and I laugh because it's like, I'm sorry, but I would say over 99 % of the population, your family did not come over on the Mayflower, so you are not, and they weren't the first people here. And so if you look and you say, who were the first people here? They were brown. Leslie Youngblood (19:00) we came over. No, certainly not. Mm-hmm Jill Mari Embry (19:11) If you look at the, you know, in so many cultures, women have always been revered. They were not seen as less than. They just might have had different roles, they were, you know, women were revered. You know, I was reading a book recently and it's like, there are women who were considered the primary medicine person in a tribe. Leslie Youngblood (19:20) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (19:36) you know, were considered, you know, the primary leaders in previous civilizations. And it's interesting, you said it multiple times a hundred years ago, if you think about how long the United States has existed, it hasn't been that long relative to so many other countries. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (19:40) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jill Mari Embry (19:56) Yet there's been so much change and so much that's happened here. And realistically, you think about it and there's so much that we should be able to learn from. We don't have a lot of history to know about our own history relative to other countries. ⁓ And so we should be able to learn that women died and fought for the right to vote. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (20:08) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (20:21) But going back to really the original aspect of this is that I don't understand why men are so threatened by women. And women being smart, women being powerful, women, you know. I don't understand that threat and that need to be above. Leslie Youngblood (20:41) Mm Yeah. I don't understand it either, But we're not men and yeah, that confounds us and. Yeah, it makes no sense again, because we're partners, right? We're complements and, you know, lifting us up, lifts them up and we want to lift them up, too. We don't want to put them down, right? It's not like I'm eating more of the pie. It's there's enough pie for everybody. And the better the more people we have contributing. What's that? Jill Mari Embry (21:03) Exactly. And if not, we'll go bake one. And if not, we'll go bake a new one. Leslie Youngblood (21:08) Yeah, we'll make a new one. It'll be better than the before. I mean, come on. I want to come back to business, Jill. You mentioned that women founders often come more prepared. Why do you think? Why do you think that is? Jill Mari Embry (21:20) Because I think that you know because we work in a male dominated world and You know it's you know if you listen to all the DEI rhetoric now that the fact that you know as a woman as a person of color You're not qualified. It's assumed that you're not qualified and I think that we come in and we know that people believe that we are there just because we're women ⁓ And so we want to prove that we are not there just because we're women we are Qualified to be here. I was speaking to a young woman yesterday She was talking about the imposter syndrome, and I'm like I don't Understand I I know what it means, but I don't understand it because I'm not gonna take a job that I don't feel that I'm qualified for Leslie Youngblood (21:45) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (22:06) I'm not going to pretend that I'm qualified for something that I'm not. So when I take a position, I don't feel like an imposter. I am qualified and I am going to make a difference if I'm allowed to. So I think that's why women are more prepared is because we feel like we have to be. Leslie Youngblood (22:20) Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I think that's like a perfect segue to to women sharing our voices and being prepared. You've talked about the dismissiveness women often face in medical appointments. How does that shape the products you choose to work on? Jill Mari Embry (22:41) It's interesting because part of my meltdown was between, I have had investors approach me about our IUD project, intrauterine device for those who don't know what an IUD is. Leslie Youngblood (22:52) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (22:54) I go, do we do the IUD or do do Balance? Do we do the IUD? What's more important? What's the priority? And I had the meltdown because I was all set for the IUD because I've read so many cases and I've talked to so many women about how they go, they tell their doctors they're not. They're in pain. They tell their doctors that they're having these symptoms and they're dismissed. ⁓ I had a situation where I was told that a woman went to her OBGYN to have an IUD put in. She started bleeding during the insertion. The physician's like, it's not a lot of blood. Her friend was there. She's like, it was a lot of blood. And the IUD, she said, it's imperfectly. The IUD popped out. Leslie Youngblood (23:18) Mm-hmm. Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (23:36) And the OBGYN got up and she goes, I'll go get another one. She's like, I don't think I want to go through with this. it will be fine. And she came in with the medical school student, male, and she's like, do you mind if they watch? And she's like, yeah, you know, totally ignored. ⁓ And I hear these stories and I have another woman who was in pain. She eventually had her IUD taken out. Leslie Youngblood (23:51) Mm. Jill Mari Embry (23:59) I listen to all this stuff and it's like these women are not being heard and the issues aren't being addressed. And so I get frustrated because I want to make that a priority because I want people to be able to go to the doctor, have something done to them where their interest is being looked after as a patient. Leslie Youngblood (24:03) Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (24:20) You know, I've been in that situation where I've had people make assumptions about me as a woman, or being unheard as a woman. You know, and it's frustrating. And you know, you're kind of at their whim and power. And so the products I choose to design, I don't necessarily work on just women-led, you know, focused products. Leslie Youngblood (24:42) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah, for sure. Tell us a little bit about your approach to designing that new IUD. What makes it different? And again, you know, why does it matter now more than ever, even in the face of the current reproductive rights climate we have going on? Jill Mari Embry (24:55) Well, there's an increase in use globally of IUDs. Yes, because the IUD is something you put it in, theoretically you should be able to forget about it. Versus having to take birth control pill, having chemicals alter your body. Leslie Youngblood (24:58) Mmm, of IUDs. Jill Mari Embry (25:10) You know, there are other birth control methods that are kind of put it in and leave it, but there's a chemical aspect of it. IUDs currently, people don't think of them as chemical. Some of them have hormones. Leslie Youngblood (25:22) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (25:22) ⁓ And the problem is, you people think that it's just, it's local, it's in the uterus. And physicians have told women that, you you don't have to worry about the side effects of a birth control pill because it's in the uterus. The uterus is innervated. And it also has blood supply. And so that blood supply aspect of it is whatever you put in there is going to get into your system. Leslie Youngblood (25:39) Hmm Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (25:48) So there's the ones with the progesterone substitutes, and then there's also the copper ones and copper ions. The purpose of the copper ion is to disrupt the sperm cellular structure. Well, Leslie Youngblood (25:52) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (26:04) If it's doing that to the sperm, you've got all these other cells in the uterus and you've got cells in your body. It gets into the bloodstream and it causes problems for some women. And so that's kind of why we're looking at it from a different perspective of not putting in anything that the mechanism of action is to disrupt any kind of cell function. The other thing... Leslie Youngblood (26:14) Mm-hmm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (26:27) you know, is the irritation perspective of the IUDs and their purpose is to irritate. We don't want to irritate you because irritation, you know, yes, pain, you know, signals to different women are different on different women. But the bottom line is if I'm irritating you, it's going to cause an inflammatory response and part of the inflammatory response is pain. And so we're approaching it from a different perspective. Leslie Youngblood (26:41) Mm-hmm. Everybody's different. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's great. It's always great to have options when it comes to birth control or your reproductive health. And so I, you know, it was only been what the pill came out, what in the 60s, the 50s, the 60s. So it's not even been, you know, that long that we've even had these methods at our disposal or access even and access is even being restricted, which leads me to my next question is how do you Balance the realities of political influence on women's health? Jill Mari Embry (26:58) Yes. Leslie Youngblood (27:20) and continuing to innovate. Jill. Jill Mari Embry (27:23) You know, it's funny that you asked that question because in some ways, you know, it's like, you you asked earlier, how do you deal with these situations you're in at work? And it's the same thing. You just have to do what you do and try to get through. And, you know, you, you know, I can't. Yes, Exactly. Leslie Youngblood (27:35) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. It's true. It's that simple and that hard, right? Now, tell me, Jill, you've been in the industry for a long time. You're a veteran. You've accomplished so much. Tell me, what does real community look like for women in STEM and entrepreneurship? What have you seen that's been great? And what do you feel like we're still missing? Jill Mari Embry (28:00) I think because we're so spread out and there's so far and few between women, it's very hard for us to support each other. There are organizations, Society of Women Engineers. I've seen it more active on university campuses, which is great. I've gone to University of Kentucky events and there's a lot of women there. Leslie Youngblood (28:08) Mmm. Jill Mari Embry (28:22) a lot of young women, which is awesome. My concern is once they go into the workplace, especially now with the whole DEI focus, I've seen a lot of times women who go to work for a company with their STEM degrees, they get pushed into regulatory equality. They want to develop things. They get pushed into these, some would consider better suited for women roles. Leslie Youngblood (28:25) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (28:46) Which is why me being constantly referred to as a regulatory person is so frustrating. Project management, quality regulatory. I worked with a young woman when I worked at the startup. We had hired her as an intern. She was very good, very thorough, would have made a great engineer from the perspective of development. And I've stayed in contact with her and the last time I talked to her she was working in quality. And I'm like... Leslie Youngblood (28:51) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (29:11) did you get there? You know, well they needed someone. I talked to a woman that I had worked with as a quality person. She had started out as a developer and well they needed someone in quality and they moved me into quality. And so I see that and it's so frustrating for me. ⁓ I would have hoped that the mindset would have changed but Leslie Youngblood (29:12) Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Jill Mari Embry (29:35) Even recently, I have an intern working for me and she was telling me about she's still in school and how someone came in to their class that was a PhD student and giving the stats on women and engineers and the males in her class were like, well, maybe women just aren't good at certain things. Yes, they did. She sees funny. She told me she turned her. I know. Leslie Youngblood (29:52) Stop it. They did not say that. The younger generation's supposed to know better, Jill. Jill Mari Embry (30:00) But, yeah, and I heard recently, and I can't quote exactly who did the study, but that by age six, little boys and girls have decided that women are not engineers, that boys are engineers. Still. And so, you know, it's like, I don't understand it. I do know that, you know, I see like... Leslie Youngblood (30:14) Hmm. Yeah. Jill Mari Embry (30:26) In my experience, things like just basics where I lived on a farm by myself, I had a tractor that was sitting there and I had a man ask me, who drives your tractor for you? ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (30:40) Who says that? Who, like, why is that even a question? I don't understand why would you ever be moved to ask somebody that has a tractor. I don't. Jill Mari Embry (30:51) It's a tractor. It is not rocket science, first of all. Leslie Youngblood (30:55) My dog drives the tractor, Bob. Like, who do you think drives the tractor? come on. Jill Mari Embry (31:02) So, you know this this mindset that you know and I think I would say it gets passed down from generation to generation You know you go into an engineering class And you know the professors you've got some women in there the professors Just are dismissive of the women You go into lab you still have that bro club kind of mentality And it's not to say all men are like Leslie Youngblood (31:18) Mmm. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely not. Jill Mari Embry (31:26) but you see it and it just kind of becomes the norm. Leslie Youngblood (31:31) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it. Jill Mari Embry (31:32) And because we're so far in between that lack of support. And I get frustrated, this is horrible, but I see us as women, oftentimes we ourselves want to stereotype and put boxes around ourselves. ⁓ I saw a product recently and it's not innovative, it's just pink. Leslie Youngblood (31:36) Mmm. Mm. gosh. Jill Mari Embry (31:57) for a medical pelvic exam, the spectrion is pink. Leslie Youngblood (32:01) A pink speculum for women. A pink speculum? Yeah, that makes no sense. That's so funny. I was just listening to I'm not sure if you're familiar with Emma Grede She has a podcast. is like the CEO of Skims and Good American. And she started a podcast and she was interviewing Mark Rubin, who I believe is the founder of Fanatics. And so he has this like billion dollar empire. But they just recently collaborated on a deal. for sports apparel because the women's interest in sports has grown exponentially and women's sports in general have grown. But he was saying the line that they're developing is so innovative because previously for stuff for women, the phrase was pink it or trinket. You would just make something pink or make a little trinket. And that was like your stuff for women when it came to like something taking that was like traditionally male or product and making it for women, right? Like we've seen the toolboxes, you know. the hardware stores that were just pink. It's like, suddenly it's pink. It's supposed to be for women. Like that's so lazy. So lazy. Yes. Jill Mari Embry (32:57) It's so mentally lazy and it's so stereotypical. It's so funny I am on pink today. Leslie Youngblood (33:02) Mm-hmm. Well, I love pink and pink is a great color, but they like weaponize pink and it's like, come on. Jill Mari Embry (33:10) Yeah, and my favorite color is not pink, my favorite color is purple. And so, no, don't buy a lot of pink. And I'm certainly not gonna buy tools that are pink. Leslie Youngblood (33:19) right, right, or choose something just because it's pink or maybe but that's just so like you said that's just so lazy it's just so frustrating. Jill Mari Embry (33:25) Well, and it's interesting that you brought up the women in sports thing and you know especially with soccer they're finding that women have ACL injuries more than men and a lot of it is because athletic shoes, athletic equipment are designed for men. We are built differently and like Leslie Youngblood (33:36) Yes. Wow. Jill Mari Embry (33:45) whether it's you're looking at artificial hips, if you're looking at knee replacements, if you're looking at the physiological anatomical structure of women and comparing it to men and this is why it's so important to have women on the lab bench. ⁓ You know to say hey well I'm not built like that. Leslie Youngblood (33:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm different. Totally different. Jill Mari Embry (34:07) Yeah, and so, and it's not a gender bias thing, it's just fact. know, our hips are different than a male hip. ⁓ So, you know, there are certain things that it's important, pink is not gonna change my hips. Leslie Youngblood (34:12) Thanks. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, certainly not. If it was only that easy. If only, if only. Now I feel like to Jill, we've you've seen and it's going to there's still bias specifically in science and STEM and all these things. What advice would you give to a woman entering a highly regulated male dominated industry today? Jill Mari Embry (34:46) This is going to sound horrible, and it's not the same in every country. A lot of women are gravitating if you look at the different engineering disciplines. Biomedical engineering is getting more females. Biomedical engineering as an undergraduate, oftentimes you don't get a strong engineering foundation. Leslie Youngblood (34:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Jill Mari Embry (35:05) So it becomes diluted. And so if you want to do the engineering aspect of biomedical engineering, get an engineering degree, take life science courses, or get a graduate degree in biomedical engineering after you get your mechanical, chemical, electrical engineering degree. Find women mentors who are in engineering doing engineering. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (35:26) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (35:27) Because it's, and one of the things with Balance Innovation Center, I don't know if you read, but we want to have a STEM program associated with us leg up. People said, that's easy Jill why don't you do the STEM program first? I said, because Balance is important to the STEM program. There are a lot of STEM programs out there. I think seeing people doing the things that you want to do are important. But we also want to have a mentor portal specifically for women and underrepresented in STEM because. Leslie Youngblood (35:41) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (35:52) There are things that I experienced when I was going through it and I will say I was blessed to have a strong mother who was very supportive. My father is also very supportive but he's also, you know, it's different. He was the first African American in sports so he experienced a lot of the things I experienced. Leslie Youngblood (35:59) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Jill Mari Embry (36:11) in the front office of sports, let me say, he wasn't the first African American in sports, but in the front office, had death threats, all kinds of bad things. But, you know, having those mentors, people who can be supportive of you, people who can tell you, I mentor women who are in the life sciences, who are in STEM, you know, to really give them that voice, at least... Leslie Youngblood (36:15) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (36:34) for themselves. you know, when we were talking about that imposter syndrome, there's no reason for you to feel that you have experience, you have talent, you have... So I'm not sure where that's coming from. Is it because we're told that we have it? I get these emails to be part of these roundtables about this. And it's like, I don't know what that is because I wouldn't put myself in that position because I know as a female... Leslie Youngblood (36:36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Jill Mari Embry (37:00) So I know I am, so I'm never gonna feel like I'm not. Leslie Youngblood (37:02) Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I love that. Did you, I also push back on imposter syndrome that makes me crazy and cringe. That also makes me crazy too, because I just feel like it's false insecurity. And like, if you are somewhere or you're invited somewhere or you're offered a job, like you are supposed to be there and you are worthy and you are capable and stop doubting yourself. And so it reminds, I know there was a graduation speech. and it was talking about bike face and how back when bicycles came and gained in popularity and women then started riding bicycles, women, they started talking about bike face. Don't beware of bike face. bike face was just a flush of your cheeks that came from riding a bike, but they kind of wanted to hold women back from riding bikes. People were kind of getting freaked out that women were like, know, independence. You can move around on these bikes. And so it's kind of the same with imposter syndrome. like bike face, it doesn't exist. It's just a made up thing to keep you mentally fenced in. And you have every right to go after anything and everything that you could ever want in your life. And and even if you aren't qualified, quote unquote, still go after it. What's the worst that could happen? So just any. And so it's like I would also challenge anybody listening to like you feel imposter syndrome. Tell yourself just no, I'm I I am not an imposter. I deserve this. I am capable. I earned this, there's no reason for me to feel this way. I am not, I am worthy, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Right. Right. Right. Mmm. Right. And nobody would say that to a man. Would anybody say that to man? Probably not. As much. Jill Mari Embry (38:34) Exactly, no, Men are, you know, it's, it's, and that's kind of the thing that, you know, is frustrating because as a female, we're questioned, you know, who really came up with this idea? I've watched, and it's sad, I've watched, I work with some women founders also. and I watched them pitch to men that I've seen other men pitch to and the types of questions they're asked, the types, the challenge. I don't think you know your market. I thought this is what caused this. thought, it's like you don't know what you're talking about. ⁓ You know, I heard someone say that, Leslie Youngblood (39:06) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (39:10) urinary tract infections were caused by not drinking enough fluids. A man said this to a woman when she gave another reason. And it's like, no, no, that's not it. Leslie Youngblood (39:17) Hmm. Yeah, it's not a list on the list, That's interesting. In a future episode of Serious Lady Business, we will have a guest who's from Silicon Valley who, and we will be specifically talking about pitching as a female and the questions that she's gotten thrown her way in a pitch that men would never, her husband is also in Silicon Valley and a developer and in the startup world. And he's often said to her, I would never get, I've never been asked that before. So it'll be an interesting conversation. Stay tuned for that. Jill Mari Embry (39:49) Well, it's interesting because I had a conversation with a gay founder and he was pitching to a group and there was a guy that was listening to his pitch in the group that he was pitching for that knew him but he didn't know he was gay. And after he pitched, this guy came up to him and he goes, why don't you go to your people to raise capital? Leslie Youngblood (40:06) Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (40:15) And I was like, what? And I've had the same thing. Why don't you talk to some women who invest in women founders? Why do women, or with Balance, why don't you talk to some black investors? Because they will appreciate that. And it's like, well, why do we have this? Leslie Youngblood (40:17) What? Huh? Jill Mari Embry (40:40) You have to have people that look like you invest in you if what you're pitching isn't... You know, if I was pitching something that was like a black doll, then I could see that. But if it has nothing to do with race, know, Balance Innovation Center is not about developing women products or, you know, or black products or brown products. It's about medical devices. Leslie Youngblood (40:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (41:06) based on development by a diverse population that can look at the diversity in our world and give input from without having to fight to get that input heard. And so it shouldn't matter. It's in all of our best interest. Leslie Youngblood (41:20) Mm-hmm. Sure is. 100%. I completely agree. Now, Jill, wrapping up here is kind of a loaded question, but what gives you hope right now, even in the face of such visible political regression, know, reproductive rights, DEI rollbacks? What's giving you hope right now? Jill Mari Embry (41:37) It's funny, I'm reading this book series and it basically starts at the Civil War and it goes through, I don't know how long, but I'm on book 18. ⁓ it's about plantation owners, slaves, they all kind of come together, they get rid of their prejudices against each other, really. And it's that whole, if you look at Reconstruction and that constant battle. Leslie Youngblood (41:47) Wow. Jill Mari Embry (42:03) And you just have to have hope because if you don't, you just crawl in a hole and you die. ⁓ And so for me, it was funny because right before the election, having heard different parts of, read different parts of Project 2025, seeing, listening to some of the stuff that I heard, and I tell people this is what America asked for because if it was just the presidency, if it was just Trump, Leslie Youngblood (42:06) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (42:30) just the presidency, then we'd have a democratic congress. But we don't. People wanted this. Whether they understood that this is what they wanted, this was what they voted for. And so even before the election, I'm like, okay, we got to have a plan B. Where do we want to go if this happens and it's as bad as it's looking? And so we have a plan B. And that's, you I told you, Mexico. Leslie Youngblood (42:33) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (42:54) very specific, you we've done the research on where you know, everything, you know, I've talked to people of what would it take for us to be there, done pricing of things, everything. So that's kind of our plan B, but part of that plan B is to have the STEM program here in the United States and allowing... college students to do summer internships at Balance in Mexico. know, Mexico, their government pays for STEM students interns in companies. you know, having an exchange program set up, student exchange with the universities there so that American students are getting that opportunity that are women that are underrepresented in STEM. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (43:28) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (43:42) that was weird. Also, you know, doing things that, you know, when we spin off a company, spinning it off in the United States and hiring a diverse group of people without the focus on the diversity, but making sure our hiring is diverse to represent the products that, you know, because every single product developed is for a diverse population. Leslie Youngblood (43:55) Mm-hmm. Right? So true. Jill Mari Embry (44:05) And so making sure, because if you're talking about qualified, a full white male development team is not qualified to develop products that are going in everybody. And so having that focus on diversity for the products, the diversity of the medical advisory board, when we spin off companies hiring for that. Leslie Youngblood (44:14) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jill Mari Embry (44:27) in the United States. And so really kind of coming in the back door. Leslie Youngblood (44:30) Yeah, I love that. Now, Jill, as we wrap up today, I would love for you to share where everybody listening right now can find you. also drop this information in the show notes, LinkedIn website. Tell them all the great places they can connect with you. Jill Mari Embry (44:43) Yes, so my email is Jill, J-I-L-L, at balanceinnovationcenter.com. And then the website is HTTPS at Balance, or is it at? You know, HTTPS balanceinnovationcenter.com. It's not at. Email, website, you know. Leslie Youngblood (45:00) Mm-hmm. Perfect and we'll also drop that information in the show notes too. So they'll be able to just click right over there Jill Mari Embry (45:09) Yeah, so those are the two easy ways to reach me. LinkedIn is easy. It's Jill, M-A-R-I, Mari, Embry Leslie Youngblood (45:16) Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Jill, and sharing all the good that you're up to. I cannot wait to see where your new Balance goes, know, reproductive innovations go in the future. And it was such a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you so much. Leslie Youngblood (45:34) Thanks for tuning in to Serious Lady Business. If you loved this episode, be sure to follow or subscribe so you never miss a moment of the real, raw, and really wonderful sides of female entrepreneurship. And hey, please leave a review if you're feeling generous. It helps more amazing women find us and join the conversation. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at at Serious Lady Business and get all of the updates at SeriousLadyBusiness.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, and keep being your seriously amazing self.