Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Beyond the Balance Sheet: Jen Hamilton’s Quest to Save Small Businesses | Fractional Series

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Beyond the Balance Sheet: Jen Hamilton’s Quest to Save Small Businesses | Fractional Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
0:10
how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast, where leaders share their
0:21
experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
0:25
by how they've overcome adversity.
0:27
My name is Anthony Cotispoti, and today's guest is Jen
0:30
Hamilton, founder of Hamilton Co OS, where she serves as both a
0:34
fractional Chief operating Officer or COO and a mentor for
0:39
Co OS. Her mission is to save and
0:41
empower small businesses by emphasizing strategic
0:44
leadership, leading the leaders, and executing plans with
0:48
precision. She shares insights on leading
0:51
with empathy, fostering a culture of accountability, and
0:54
executing strategic plans that aligned with the company's long
0:57
term goals. She is also the leader of the
1:00
Fractional COO Collective where fractional Coos and integrators
1:04
can support each other. Now before we get into all that
1:07
good stuff, today's episode is brought to you by my company,
1:10
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To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at
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Add Back benefitsagency.com. Now back to our guest today, the
1:37
CEO of Hamilton Co OS. Jen, I appreciate you making the
1:41
time to Share your story today. Anthony, thanks so much for
1:44
having me here. It's my pleasure.
1:46
So, Jen, tell us in your own words, what does Hamilton Co OS
1:50
do and how did you first get started with it?
1:53
Hamilton COO says two things really.
1:55
We we equip and empower that emerging COO or that existing
2:00
COO that's within small businesses or growing
2:02
businesses. It's not a, there's no COO
2:06
school like I had to go learn it through experience and learn it
2:09
through mentorship. So we offer mentorship, training
2:12
and tools and resources for those who are in those seats.
2:15
Sometimes it looks like an office manager who's growing
2:18
into the COO. Sometimes it's a full COO in
2:21
those seats, so helping equip them to be their best.
2:24
And then sometimes there's companies that don't have that
2:27
COO, but need that second in that command, someone to
2:31
strategically figure out things with and make decisions from a
2:35
place of what's going to avoid risk, get to those growth areas,
2:39
hit those goals, that kind of thing and lead the team, get the
2:42
team to do their best. And that's what a CE OS main job
2:45
is, is strategizing, getting the team to implement to get to
2:49
those goals. And so if you don't have that
2:52
person to myself or other fractional CE OS on my team can
2:56
also sit in that seat for you, grow you to a point where we can
3:00
get someone in there full time. And and so you get the full
3:04
gamut of being able to support that seat for the small
3:07
businesses 'cause it really is difficult when you start a
3:11
business to know how to run a business 'cause you're usually
3:15
coming into it, 'cause you're a master of your craft.
3:18
You're great at what you do, great at what you produce, but
3:21
not always great a business. So we come in and fix that.
3:24
So is would it be the case that a lot of your clients, it's sort
3:28
of a like a short term or like a midterm kind of arrangement with
3:33
you 'cause it almost sounds like you're trying to coach your
3:38
client to fire you? Yes, it is the goal, a strange
3:43
goal from a business development point of view.
3:46
But to me, I'm really about that concept of teaching them to
3:50
fish, not giving them a fish. And so for me, I am about really
3:55
having them have the infrastructure and the team that
3:58
they can rely on. And if I wrap it too closely
4:01
around me, it's just the same problem right now.
4:03
It's if before I come in my, my potential clients, they're
4:08
wrapped around usually the business owner.
4:11
And so if I just change that wrap around someone like myself
4:14
as a fractional CEO, that doesn't actually really solve it
4:17
because the last thing I want to do is step away and it all
4:21
crumble. So it's to me, it's really much
4:23
more about leading for the future.
4:27
Who can start to take over that second in command?
4:30
Maybe there's someone internally, maybe there's
4:32
someone we need to to bring in. But it's not just the second
4:35
command. It's those that are leading the
4:38
different functions, the different areas of the business,
4:41
also strengthening their ability as leaders, as strategists and
4:45
as as folks who can truly work together.
4:48
Because those are those are what they need to do so that the
4:52
business owner can rely on their team.
4:54
If it's only relying on me, that fails.
4:58
Is there a particular revenue size of client that tends to be
5:02
a good fit for you? You know, they're to the point
5:05
maybe where the the founder, the owner is a little bit, you know,
5:10
in over his or her head, but they haven't grown to the point
5:14
where they've got that solid internal COO.
5:18
Person, it's a great question because there is a phase in your
5:22
growth that works and it doesn't work for having a fractional
5:26
COO. So having someone come in and
5:28
actually help you run that business part time, the sweet
5:33
spot I like to say is about 1 to 2 million in revenue and it kind
5:37
of tops out around 20 million. It's not a perfect science, but
5:41
the idea is that you have enough income that you can support and
5:47
need to get the things off of your plate of leading your team.
5:51
You've, you've built enough essentially clients and revenue
5:55
and team that you can't handle it anymore.
5:58
So you do need someone else and then it tops out because as you
6:02
really start to have multiple layers within your company,
6:05
you're a bit larger now it's time to bring in a full time
6:08
COO. And so it's, it's that sweet
6:11
spot in between. That being said, I do have
6:13
clients that are under 1,000,000 and are in that growth stage.
6:17
That's where we do a little bit more on the mentoring side,
6:20
maybe work with someone may have internally that does the
6:24
execution of the administration of the business and coaching and
6:28
guiding them and helping them put some pieces in place is a
6:31
more affordable way than having a full fractional CEO.
6:34
So I do try to work with anyone from say about 500,000 all the
6:39
way up to 20 million because they're just are struggling with
6:44
the infrastructure. And that's my focus is how to
6:47
get the infrastructure of a company to be strong.
6:51
Now, aside from the revenue parameters that are kind of
6:55
loose on a hard and fast rule, what are some other criteria
6:59
that makes a good fit for you and a client, particular
7:02
industries or particular types of people or leaders?
7:05
For me in particular, I love working in the professional
7:08
service field. I started my career as ACPA.
7:12
I'm still a CPA. I, I also started my career
7:15
married to an attorney. I'm still married to an
7:17
attorney. So I really understand and I've
7:19
been I've been in coaching and consulting in fractional.
7:21
So I understand the high level intellect type of job and how to
7:28
turn that into a service. I understand the need for being
7:32
that trusted advisor. You know, all of all of the
7:34
things that come along with that.
7:36
You have a high level service as your product and your people are
7:40
your product. So that's my favorite spot to be
7:42
in, but I have some qualifications.
7:45
You have to be a business for good.
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And what I mean by that is that if you're out there just for
7:51
profitability, I'm not, I'm not your gal.
7:54
I am going to really lean into how to best serve your clients
7:59
and how to best serve your serve your team because your whole
8:02
business when especially in professional services built on
8:04
your people. And part of my sweet spot is to
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have your people be their best and bring their best to your
8:11
clients. So if that's not what you're
8:13
interested in, but then we're not going to be a good fit for
8:17
each other. You know, talking about team and
8:20
this is something really important, especially in the
8:22
really tight labor market that we're in now.
8:25
I'm curious if you have encouraged your clients to try
8:30
any strategies that have been particularly effective in
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recruiting and retaining good staff.
8:36
This is such an important question.
8:38
It has become critical since the since the Great Resignation, but
8:43
I think that we're not going to have just this phase of the
8:46
great Resignation. I think things have been changed
8:48
forever. So the work, the, I think the
8:52
win in the work is through your workforce.
8:55
If you can nail the recruitment and the retention, you can get
8:59
ahead of your competitors. Some of the great some of like
9:02
the logistical pieces is to really be clear that you now are
9:08
your biggest asset is your people.
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And I don't whether you're in professional services or not,
9:13
the way to get them to want to be a part of you first and
9:17
foremost, they care about culture.
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I don't care. I'm not talking about a certain
9:20
age, but everyone is now realizing I want to be a place
9:24
that is fit for me because COVID helped us realize like I don't
9:30
have to put up with this stuff. So they want to be around other
9:34
like minded people. So that can also go from just
9:37
like they're high performers. You want high performers, you
9:40
need high performers on the team.
9:42
They want to be with like minded people.
9:43
They also want to be with like hearted people.
9:46
So having a mission that aligns you.
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So all of those culture pieces, when the day is done, that's
9:52
what's going to attract them. Knowing that they can have that.
9:54
What's going to keep them is knowing that it's not just some
9:57
false promise. The other little logistic tip,
10:02
if you will, I love to tell people, don't just have HR
10:08
people put together a position description and put that out for
10:13
posting. Have a collaboration between
10:15
your marketing folks and your compliance folks and your HR
10:20
folks to be able to create something that you post the
10:24
position that is actually more marketing based.
10:27
In other words, it's not about just filling your seat, it's
10:30
about what's in it for that employee and and finding that
10:34
marriage. And so being able to to
10:36
communicate. This is what we need from you,
10:38
but this is what you get from us.
10:41
That's really good. What?
10:44
Other than some of the things, they are benefits, right?
10:47
Give them good benefits. Yeah, I like.
10:50
It really does make a difference, right?
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Because you're honoring, you're honoring your people.
10:54
So all joking aside, that it is important to show that you care
10:59
and and expressions of that your family matters, your health
11:04
matters, not just the actual benefits, but but being able to
11:09
say that you matter and not offering the benefits like it's
11:12
inconsistent in your messaging. So it is the whole package.
11:16
Now, aside from some of the interesting things we've already
11:19
covered, Jen, what do you feel sets you apart from maybe some
11:23
other fractionals in the space? Good question.
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One of the things that sets me apart is that I bring in other
11:28
fractionals. So my, my approach is bringing
11:32
in the right person for that team.
11:35
So I partner with many, many solar partners or small firms.
11:39
And if I'm not the right one, I'm, I'm really more of a
11:42
matchmaker. Sometimes I'm the right one,
11:44
sometimes I'm not. And I, I see that, that where
11:48
the clients are best served and where I'm going to get the best
11:52
thing for my buck, which is in, in making a bigger impact.
11:55
That's really what I'm about is having the right person in the
11:59
right seat. So that is not always me and I'm
12:02
OK with that, but I'd rather have the, the connection or the
12:07
introduction that. So that's one piece of it.
12:10
The other piece is that I'm very much focused on the strategy and
12:15
strategically knowing what does it take to actually have a
12:20
strong, healthy business and not just like putting on fire.
12:26
So a lot of times it's very attempting that when you come
12:30
into a company that doesn't have someone like our kind of brains,
12:33
the analytical, the execution mind that you focus on that help
12:38
me solve this problem, help me make this decision.
12:41
And so that is needed, but you need to also be pushing for, we
12:45
need to strategically grow your infrastructure and head towards
12:49
your goals and figure out how to get there.
12:51
So I've created the six pillars of business that are based on
12:55
valuation, meaning a company can go and say, what's the value of
13:02
my company to experts, different accountants than me, but other
13:07
accountants who can say here's the dollar value, but what
13:10
they're really saying is how healthy or how risky is your
13:12
company? So something uniquely I do with
13:15
my clients is I look at what do they look at to grade a
13:20
company's health? And and then I set up the
13:23
strategy and the structure to basically build something that a
13:28
valuation expert would give it a healthy grade, if that makes
13:31
sense. Yeah, interesting.
13:34
Let's shift gears and talk a little bit about the Fractional
13:37
COO collective. What was the inspiration behind
13:40
starting this and what is it all about?
13:42
So the fractional COO collective is a place where fractional C OS
13:47
are for those who run on E OS, they call them integrators, but
13:50
same sort of role where we come together.
13:54
We come together in a round table environment every month,
13:57
no charge to that. And part of it is that there's
14:00
something special about being with peers.
14:02
We talk about what uniquely is in our role, challenges and
14:08
opportunities. So the things that are
14:10
challenges, opportunities for us are getting the clients and then
14:14
serving the clients. And so we, our topics are around
14:17
that. But it's so beneficial to hear
14:20
from peers how they're doing it and ask questions and hear their
14:23
ideas. So the reason I started it is
14:26
because I wanted that. It's very selfish.
14:29
I wanted to engage in those conversations.
14:31
I wanted to learn from others. And I, I've already mentioned I
14:35
love mentoring. And so I would often be asked
14:38
many, many meetings. No, no compensation, one-on-one
14:42
with other fractional Co OS like how do you do it?
14:45
What do you do here? And so part of it is selfish is
14:48
that I wanted to have a place where I can continue to learn
14:51
from others, but they can learn from me and from others like me.
14:54
And I didn't have to fill my calendar with a lot of mentoring
14:58
meetings that I could do it together.
15:01
So I first looked for where would this community be so that
15:06
I can join and contribute and be a part of it.
15:08
And I didn't find one. There are COO communities, there
15:12
are integrator communities, but they're full time and
15:15
fractional. There are fractional leadership
15:18
communities, which are great. I mean, I'm a part of all of
15:20
these as well, but there wasn't one just for fractional Co OS.
15:26
You know, it was, it was like fractional CMOS and fractional
15:31
CTOS and all of these things. Those are great too.
15:33
And I and I think each area of community is helpful to have,
15:38
but because I couldn't find one I said I'm going to stop looking
15:40
and start leading. And so how did you sort of kick
15:45
this off? How did you get sort of the
15:46
first base of people to to join you in?
15:49
So I do. Have a decent network because
15:52
I've had so many me, I'm part of these different communities.
15:56
So I'm known as someone with fractional CEO.
15:58
So that a lot of folks that are connected to me in my own kind
16:02
of Rolodex as well as the famous LinkedIn Rolodex.
16:06
And I just started by doing a monthly round table.
16:09
So I picked a topic that was of interest to me, put it out there
16:14
at the, the first time. I think I had about 20 people
16:16
sign up for it and about, I want to say maybe 10 showed up and
16:22
they're like, gosh damn, this is really great.
16:24
And it was really great for me too.
16:26
So then I said, you know what, I'm going to do this every
16:28
month. I pick a different topic every
16:30
month. It's relevant for us.
16:32
And I've had my last fractional CEO for June was last week.
16:37
We had over 80 people sign up and about 26 people came and
16:42
about five other people were like, Dang it, I missed it.
16:45
I wanted to be there so badly. So what's a good sign to me is
16:49
that people are coming back and wanting to show up and are upset
16:53
when they miss it. And again, it's it's about the
16:56
conversations, not just about me.
16:59
I'm sure you know any, you can put any COO in there.
17:02
We're by our nature good at at facilitating a good discussion.
17:08
But to have this safe space we on our confidentiality of the
17:13
safe space to share is pretty magical.
17:17
And So what is the actual structure of the get together?
17:19
Like are you sort of leading the topic?
17:22
Does everybody sort of get, you know, 3 minutes to kind of ask a
17:25
question or great? Question I like to lean into
17:30
the, like I had mentioned before, why, why are we here?
17:34
And that culture, you know, I, it's important whether you're in
17:37
a company or whether you're in a community.
17:39
So we really get grounded in the, the, the heart connection,
17:43
the mind connection. So we, we start with why we're
17:46
here and the impact we can make in small businesses and that how
17:50
they meet our brains. And then we do some heroic wins.
17:53
So we do a few introductions. I love to, to share what are
17:56
some things that people were able to accomplish.
17:59
So we get some understanding of the things that we can create.
18:02
And then about 4045 minutes. The rest of the time is I have
18:07
one topic and I usually create three different questions
18:11
related that to that topic. So I'll put out the question and
18:15
sometimes I answer first, sometimes other people answer
18:19
first. Sometimes, you know, I answer
18:20
for told me because I they need someone to get it started.
18:24
But man, after that first one, we have folks that are
18:28
contributing to answering that specific question.
18:31
And then sometimes they'll ask more questions of each other.
18:34
But lately it's gotten so big, I actually put them into breakout
18:37
groups now where they answer the question.
18:40
We come back from the breakout group and then we get a
18:43
collection of what are some of the favorite things they heard
18:45
in their groups. So we could still hear from the
18:48
larger group, then ask the next question related to that topic,
18:51
go in the group and again, come back, reflect.
18:54
And so we kind of I, I strategically put the questions
18:58
in order to kind of deep dive and to build on them so we can
19:01
get towards action. The end of the meeting.
19:05
One of my favorite things as ACO is to make sure people do
19:08
something. Don't just talk, do.
19:11
So we asked people to make a commitment and have them either
19:14
share verbally or put it in the chat, but write down what action
19:18
out of what they heard, what something they're going to do
19:21
with this information. And I think that helps have that
19:24
group accountability by putting it out loud.
19:26
But also, I don't want people to come where they're not getting
19:29
value. So having them stop and reflect
19:31
what can I do with this information makes it more
19:34
valuable not just for them, but for their clients and those that
19:37
they are able to do something with what they learn from this
19:41
amazing kind of mastermind like experience.
19:45
You mentioned one of the things that you were hoping to get out
19:47
of the collective that other fractionals are are looking to
19:49
get too is how to find clients. I'm curious, what does business
19:53
development, what does the sales process look like for you?
19:56
So for me it's really about listening 1st and truly
20:00
understanding and evaluating, asking enough questions to
20:04
understand what are the foundational pieces that are in
20:08
place. Because I don't want to work on
20:10
what's already working. We don't want to break what's
20:12
what's working. And then secondly, I look at
20:16
what are the foundational pieces not in place from going through
20:21
those questions, understanding where they've been, where they
20:23
want to go. Then I'm able to put together a
20:27
customized proposal with a few different options to be able to
20:31
let that client know. Here are different ways.
20:35
If I back it up a step, if I'm not the right person, I'll bring
20:39
in another person and, and I'll tell them because if I can, I
20:43
can tell usually from those first questions if I'm going to
20:46
be the right fit. And I will tell them before I
20:48
put a proposal together, if I'm going to bring in somebody else
20:51
or if I fully refer them to. Sometimes it's not even ACO.
20:55
Sometimes what they need is a project manager and they would
20:57
be overpaying. So you know, I, I have a lot of
21:00
good resources or sometimes they need an executive assistant.
21:04
So part of it is just kind of pointing in the right direction.
21:07
If the, if it is something where I'm a fit or one of my
21:10
colleagues is a fit, then I put together that proposal that
21:13
gives them different options. But I like to say that it's a
21:16
draft and that the client and I are finalizing it together
21:21
because it it's meant to be a partnership when we start
21:24
working together. So why not have it be a
21:26
partnership before we start working together?
21:29
Nice Jen, what are some of the most common mistakes that you
21:32
see clients make? The biggest one, I think that
21:37
I'm trying to think like universally it's failing to
21:42
delegate appropriately because man, it hits everything and I
21:50
get trapped in it too. We we get trapped in the idea
21:53
that no one could do it as good as me.
21:54
It's going to take longer to train them.
21:56
By the time I teach them, I'll do it myself.
21:58
You know, like all of these conversations, we have to
22:01
justify just doing it. And and so it's overcoming that.
22:07
It's also there's there's a fear.
22:08
This is your baby. You know, this is what you've
22:11
created. You're you're putting so much on
22:13
the line that you want it to go well.
22:17
And so the fear of being out of control and not being able to
22:22
control it is at the heart of a lot of these things.
22:24
So that's where the mistakes come in.
22:27
And then sometimes it's like, Oh my gosh, I know I have to
22:31
delegate. And then they just throw it at
22:33
someone but not set them up for success.
22:36
And that goes poorly. Often this happens with like, an
22:39
assistant. I'm going to like, find me.
22:41
I'll get an administrative assistant, right.
22:43
But and then they'll never do it again because they're like, that
22:45
is no work. See, I was right.
22:47
All my fears came alive. And yet what they're missing is
22:52
like, how to delegate appropriately.
22:57
So yeah, that's one that you can like whether you're bringing on
23:00
a consulted, whether you're bringing on a new team member,
23:04
an outsourced resource that hand off, whether it's you to someone
23:09
else or your team to someone else and getting that delegation
23:12
culture, appropriate delegation, it really can stop your growth
23:16
and it can really add to your stress.
23:18
But if you turn it around and you do it right, that's why for
23:21
me, people is so important. They can absolutely change your
23:26
world because there is a way to be in control, there is a way to
23:29
trust. It's just how you pass that on
23:33
to someone else to take it and run with it makes all the
23:36
difference. Slightly different question, but
23:39
similar. What's some low hanging fruit
23:41
for most companies that if they just did these one or two
23:44
somewhat simple things would make a big difference in their
23:47
business? So I'll go with this similar
23:50
piece. One is I almost always am
23:53
looking at, especially for the business owner, what are the
23:56
administrative things that you are doing?
23:58
I was talking to one yesterday and she's got this company she's
24:01
had for over 20 years, really successful, good sized team.
24:05
She's still doing payroll and I'm like, Oh my goodness, you
24:10
know. So what are the things
24:12
administratively that you should no longer be doing at the stage
24:16
that you're at and or start to to delegate off to people who
24:21
can do it probably better than you to free you up to do the
24:26
things that are best for you. The other the other like low
24:29
hanging froze. So that's an easy one because
24:31
they're you could start with a part time administrative
24:34
support. You know, you can grow into it.
24:37
You could try different firms. You know, I I love to be able to
24:41
just start to pull things off of their plate.
24:45
The other woman's relatively easy as I would challenge most
24:51
people to look at what are they charging.
24:54
It may not mentally or emotionally be easy, but it is
24:58
relatively easy to grow your revenue and hit your
25:01
profitability because your prices are too low.
25:04
And I say that because we as as humans and I was, I will throw
25:08
myself under the bus on this one.
25:10
I work with a lot of female entrepreneurs, not only female
25:13
entrepreneurs, but a lot of them were really good at undervaluing
25:17
ourselves. So being able to just get your
25:20
prices to the place where you have some freedom to invest in
25:25
your company, have profitability to reinvest in your company,
25:29
cover the cost you really need to to pay, including yourself.
25:35
A lot of times we don't pay ourselves market value.
25:38
So increasing your fee and really getting yourself out of
25:42
your comfort zone, how can I charge more does have a ripple
25:46
effect that allows you to do some of these other
25:48
infrastructure things? Aside from boosting up your
25:52
prices, what's something interesting that you've done to
25:56
encourage clients to, I don't know, maybe lower costs or
26:00
increase sales other ways, other interesting ways to increase
26:03
profitability? Kyle, I'll do one on each side.
26:06
So on the sales side, I know it sounds rudimentary, but but
26:11
really putting asking for referrals.
26:15
So in up sales, so a lot of times you just kind of put your,
26:19
your clients or your customers on autopilot and forget that
26:23
they are likely satisfied, if not fix that, but likely satisfy
26:29
it and can be a, a resource for you to continue to make an
26:34
impact, to continue to serve or support.
26:37
And so people will say, Oh yeah, I asked for referrals, but do
26:41
you have a system? So you're systematically asking
26:44
for referrals and systematically finding what's the next thing
26:47
they may need honoring that person, not doing it just out of
26:53
because I need to, but a system around it.
26:55
That's what most people are missing.
26:57
So by putting these things in place, you don't have to think
26:59
about it. You don't have to remember.
27:00
And we're doing it at the right time.
27:02
It's right time for the relationship.
27:04
So that's one on the sales side, on the expense side, it's really
27:09
about kind of, again, you can hear I'm all about people and
27:12
delegation. It's really about getting work
27:15
off of the plates of people who shouldn't be doing that job.
27:20
So a lot of people say write people write seats, but a lot of
27:23
times it's not just the business owner.
27:26
It can be leaders, it can be, you know, I threw it at this
27:29
person because they're so nice and they get it.
27:31
But if you the work we really do, and this is fundamentally
27:35
what we do is create a corporate structure.
27:38
What are the roles you need? Then put the right people in
27:41
those seats, seeing your holes and putting people that love
27:45
that job, that are skilled at that job, that are natural at
27:47
that job in there. What happens is you have
27:51
incredible efficiency because people who are good at it and
27:55
natural at it are going to do it better.
27:57
But you've also relieved work that flows your high thinkers
28:02
down or your really good, you know, leaders down, whatever.
28:06
And so you now get efficiency because you're getting the most
28:09
out of your, if you will, your investment in their in their
28:13
skills and their talents. And so it's like getting
28:15
everyone in to be there in their talent space naturally creates
28:20
efficiency. So you're getting basically a
28:23
better return on your labor investment, making the fact that
28:27
your expenses can go down because you're not having as
28:31
much waste, but you're also being able to get the most out
28:36
of your people, really increasing your productivity.
28:39
You mentioned having a system for referrals.
28:42
Do you have some suggestions? Good good structures you've seen
28:46
so the? So part of what I do is continue
28:48
to learn from other mentors myself, which is part of why I
28:51
love mentoring because it works for me.
28:53
One of my mentors is Darren Hardy and I love what he teaches
28:56
about the referral system is if you map out the customer
29:00
journey, there's highs and lows just naturally part of what you
29:04
do and you'll be like, no, they're always happy with me.
29:07
And if you look, there may be times where you have to give bad
29:09
news or you have to give them, you know, maybe there's a, a
29:13
return if it's a product or you have to tell them like the
29:16
things they don't want to hear if it's a service, right?
29:18
So you don't want to ask then and the lows and then they're
29:24
just natural times where like, gosh, you got to win or there's,
29:27
you know, you accomplish something together in your
29:30
relationship where they're really happy with the results
29:33
that they got out of your product or service.
29:35
Those are the strategic times you want to ask for those
29:39
referrals. And the other side of it too,
29:41
that is not to say can you give me a referral, but can you
29:45
introduce me to someone that has this problem and would like
29:47
these results, right? Because referral, the word
29:51
referral is very weighted and my reputation is on the line and
29:56
it's no other person, even though you've done great for me.
30:00
There's that hesitation of like, but if you screw up my friend or
30:04
my family member or my colleague, I'm going to look
30:07
bad. So you want to take away their
30:09
risk of their reputation riding on you and just ask for an
30:14
introduction to other folks and then also have something that
30:19
they can get from that. So I often say for, for
30:23
referrals that you can get a, a free office hour with a COO.
30:28
Your people, if they want to pick my brain and be able to
30:32
just come in with one issue that they have no one to talk about
30:36
with and want to just figure out how to make a decision or what's
30:39
one thing they can do. I say that's what happens in my
30:43
free office hour with a COO. And then that gives them
30:47
something to give them and say you're gonna get something for
30:52
it. So it's it's when it's what you
30:55
say and then what they get to give to that person so they look
31:00
like the hero that they're helping them out.
31:03
I really like that because it it, it highlights the importance
31:05
of word choice, right. Like you said, referral sounds
31:09
like, oh, my reputation is on the line.
31:11
I don't know if I want to do that.
31:13
But if it's like, hey, do you know somebody who has these
31:16
problems that could benefit from this solution?
31:19
Yeah. Would you please make an intro
31:21
and as a thank you if you do, here's, you know, in your case,
31:25
a pre hour with the, you know, a fractional COO to, you know, get
31:28
some consulting. Maybe it's a gift card or it's,
31:31
you know, whatever you can offer.
31:34
Yeah, I think it's pretty creative.
31:35
Thank you, Anthony. What's a serious challenge, Jen,
31:40
that you've had to overcome in your business or personal life?
31:43
And what did you learn coming through that experience?
31:47
For me and I bet two others in especially CE OS because of our
31:51
mindset and in other service providers probably are the same
31:56
thing. It's the guts to go and do it on
31:59
your own. I kept chickening out and so I
32:02
would join other firms and hope that you know my idea of how we
32:06
could do this thing I do better. I could influence or be able to
32:12
do that in somebody else's house essentially.
32:14
And no one really wants someone else to reorganize and clean
32:19
their house. They kind of want it the way
32:21
they want it. So I would move to different
32:25
firms being afraid of what I inevitably needed, knew I needed
32:29
to do, which was go out and go out on my own.
32:33
I now am on my own. So I'm excited to say I've
32:37
learned that lesson the hard way many, many times.
32:41
And while I've loved the people I've worked with, I realized
32:44
that I'm not honoring me and I'm not honoring them if I'm pushing
32:47
for a different vision, a different way than what it is
32:51
that they want to do. And, and said that to me, that
32:53
was my sign. I needed to go out on my own.
32:54
But I was, I was scared. And I mean, six years, I'm
32:58
scared and, and probably, I want to say like 5 different leaders
33:05
hoping I could, you know, make it work where our visions were
33:08
close enough that I could like, oh, this is where I can make my
33:12
magic happen. And yes, we had great successes
33:15
and things, but there was always still something inside of me
33:17
gnawing at me saying, but you're compromising in some way.
33:21
And so finally, with the support of accountability folks, my own
33:26
coaches, I was able to to realize that I'm never going to
33:32
be satisfied in some cleaning someone else's house.
33:37
I am ready to do my own entrepreneurial journey and my
33:40
vision is important to me and I think I can make a big
33:43
difference and inspire others to do the same.
33:46
And if I keep hiding behind another leader, I'm not going to
33:50
be able to do that. So.
33:52
What are some of the things you felt like you were compromising
33:54
on at the other firms? What was not?
33:56
What was it that about yourself that you weren't allowing to
33:58
come through? I that vision in, in that I saw
34:04
a different need in the market, a different need in the world,
34:09
if you will, than what the folks that owned the firms that I was
34:14
a part of. And while there's nothing wrong
34:16
with it, what they had, I was compromising like telling myself
34:20
it's close enough to what they're doing.
34:22
And yet I just saw something different or bigger in, in
34:25
different cases. And so that's that's not one you
34:30
want to compromise on. The other thing I would say is
34:33
values. And I don't mean there wasn't a
34:36
core value alignment, although sometimes there was, but the the
34:40
things that I value. And so in terms of my approach,
34:45
I really lead with that the client is important and then get
34:50
a team that loves to provide client excellence, whereas
34:55
there's other cultures where you can get a great team and then
34:58
they'll make magic happen for the client.
35:00
As subtle as that sounds. That is a huge difference.
35:04
Everything in your marketing, in your approach is very different.
35:07
When you look at am I about customer excellence or am I
35:10
about team excellence. Now I'm about both, but you
35:14
can't have both at the same time.
35:16
You have to pick 1. So for me, I was in areas where
35:20
they sometimes their team was, it was about the team or their
35:23
own family or their own vision more than the client.
35:27
And so that was uncomfortable compromise for me that I had to
35:31
stop that. I have to do what's best for the
35:33
client. That's where my heart is.
35:34
That's where I shine. That's where I really yield my
35:39
best that I can give my best. And then I'm so now in my own
35:43
from surrounding people who are the same, like there's such a
35:46
joy out of seeing the results for a client, not just for
35:49
yourself. And so again, nothing's
35:53
different. It's different, not bad, you
35:56
know, it's just different approaches.
35:57
And so to be able to be very, very clear, what is my vision,
36:02
what are my values, what is my focus, allowed me to say stop
36:06
trying to force other people in their own company to do it my
36:11
way. It's time to do my own.
36:14
I want to hear more about what led you to that courageous
36:19
moment to make the decision to go off on your own.
36:21
Six years of going, you know, a couple of different firms,
36:26
having success there and doing well, but always knowing that
36:30
there was something else inside you that you wanted to have come
36:34
out that you wanted to make happen.
36:37
And for six years, holding yourself back, holding yourself
36:40
back. And then something finally
36:42
clicked. What?
36:45
Was it? I think it was more something
36:47
finally kicked, not clicked, and it was myself kicking my own
36:52
butt and my the people that I trust.
36:57
I've had for many, many years the same accountability partners
37:00
and their belief in me and their reminder of me echoing my
37:06
complaints and that I'm in a pattern really helped me see
37:11
that the solution isn't go join another firm 'cause I had tried
37:15
that many times. But my own butt kicking was
37:19
looking at my results, not just my own financial income,
37:24
although sometimes that's like, gosh, you know what?
37:26
I feel like I, I could do more. It's not the only motivation,
37:32
but looking at the results of what I knew the impact I could
37:36
make on on for me. I'm passionate about small
37:39
businesses succeeding and I wasn't able to do it as as much.
37:45
And so for me to have to put my head down at night and to stare
37:50
at, you know, the ceiling, the things that we do, the way we
37:54
really look at night, what did we do wrong?
37:56
Essentially, we wake up in the morning excited what we could do
37:58
right? But the the night time
38:01
reflection is like, man, I wish I would have said this
38:03
differently or done this differently.
38:05
I had too many nights where I was kicking my own butt saying,
38:09
you know what, it's not enough, it's not right.
38:13
You're, you know, you're out of integrity.
38:15
You know, you can do something different.
38:17
And so I like to go back and sleep at night and be like you.
38:22
You really honored what you're committed to, where you're
38:26
going, the people you work with, the clients you have.
38:29
And not that I didn't, but, but there were always little pieces
38:33
that I'd like, but it could be more.
38:35
And so I was tired of kicking my butt in that way 'cause it's,
38:39
it's not as fulfilling as I knew this could be.
38:43
So what I like about what you said is obviously there was a
38:45
lot of you kicking your own butt, but you also mentioned a
38:49
really good support system that you have people who were there
38:53
being a positive voice, being, you know, an affirming presence
38:57
for you, reminding you, you've got what it takes.
39:00
You can do this. And and I'd like to hear more
39:02
about that crew, because I think a lot of times people look at
39:05
business leaders and they kind of put them on an island.
39:07
You know, it's like this person is, you know, amazing.
39:11
They're strong, they're an independent, they're pillar,
39:13
they're, you know, they, they stand well on their own.
39:16
And man, it's so much easier when when when you allow the
39:22
people that you trust that are close in your lives to be there
39:25
and support you and help you when you need it.
39:28
I can't recommend more that you surround yourself in some of
39:34
some something ongoing, recurring accountability type
39:38
group, whatever you want to call it, mastermind, that kind of
39:41
thing. So I do this and then I have my
39:44
own coach. And so I do this in two ways.
39:46
Every Monday I meet with the same three women and a half
39:50
since November 2019, every Monday.
39:55
Sometimes we'll take the holiday off, but what?
39:58
It's not just any people. It's people who aren't afraid to
40:03
tell you directly, tell you straight kindness, of course.
40:08
But there's very few people on the planet, if you really look
40:12
in your life, who will tell you the full truth and get in your
40:16
face because they're standing for your greatness and they know
40:20
what your potential is. That's what I have in my coach.
40:23
That's what I have in these women.
40:24
And then I meet with my coach every Tuesday.
40:27
And so that has been, gosh, I want to say maybe eight years or
40:32
something long time. So I know him really well,
40:35
'cause we do a, we do a trade. I coach him, he coaches me.
40:39
So it's a, it's a really nice and I and I see so much.
40:42
That's also why I'm a big fan of mentoring, is that I see so much
40:46
in him mentoring me, but I also see so much in what I say to
40:49
him. Am I following my own advice?
40:53
So I think it's a mutual it's not just them standing for you,
40:56
it's who's standing for you, how they're going to stand for you
40:59
and how you stand for them. Because I always say where my
41:02
breakdowns come from or I'm not taking my own advice.
41:05
If it was a friend or if it was a client, what would I tell them
41:08
to do? That's what I should be doing.
41:11
For people out there who are listening, they say oh wow, that
41:13
sounds pretty powerful. I would love to have something
41:16
like that in place for me. What advice do you have for them
41:19
to get started? Is it like do I need like a
41:22
group of four people? Is it enough to be one-on-one?
41:27
What are the sort of criteria or the the check boxes that I
41:30
should be looking for? So my.
41:32
Answer to that, should it be one-on-one or four people say
41:35
yes, whatever you can get started with my one on.
41:40
Well, let me back up where I found both of these people were
41:43
different communities. One of the things you hear, I'm
41:45
super committed to communities finding like minded people.
41:49
You get to filter out. Well, first of all, if you're
41:51
coming to this this thing for for a similar reason, you know,
41:55
you've got some alignment already.
41:56
So you want to find where you align.
41:59
So maybe it's the way you're being taught.
42:01
Maybe it's the the that you have a similar profession, whatever
42:03
it is, but that's a great place to go find people is that you're
42:08
already kind of committed into the same kind of group.
42:11
So that's where I found them, two different, two different
42:15
groups. And then I would be very
42:17
selective of and very straight with what kinds of expectations
42:23
you all have of each other so that you can be confidential, so
42:26
that you can be straight with each other, that you can be
42:30
direct, that you can know it's safe.
42:32
They're not going to use this information against you, those
42:35
kinds of things. But then also the commitment of
42:37
time to each other. So one of the things that we
42:40
tested out with this group that is the four of us at on Mondays,
42:44
we started with eight, then we had seven, then we had five and
42:50
we ended up with four. And so you'll know who shows up
42:53
and if if at some point they stop showing up, go find a new
42:58
one. Start a new one.
43:01
That's great, Jen, what is something you wish you could
43:05
teach a younger version of yourself?
43:10
There's a long list. Let's pick one or two.
43:15
I'll pick, I'll pick one, but I think that we could probably
43:18
I'll say that there's a long list.
43:21
The, the biggest thing I would say to myself is that it's OK
43:26
that you're going to have a not traditional path through your
43:34
career. I think that I've made myself
43:36
very, very wrong from following my heart and my skills and my,
43:42
my vision and instead down looking back and being in such
43:46
a, a place of joy fulfillment where I really get to make the
43:51
biggest difference. I had to do accounting and then
43:54
go into, into a nonprofit. And do you know, like I have a,
43:57
a peppered background of experience, right?
44:00
It's not a a straight line and it's OK and it's I needed that,
44:07
you know, So I think there's a lot of like, man, am I failing
44:10
this 'cause I didn't like it. I'm trying something else
44:13
instead of making it wrong, I would say make it right that
44:15
just follow the path. It's the path is there on
44:17
purpose all. Right.
44:20
What's a fun fact that most people wouldn't know about you,
44:22
Jen? My favorite fun fact to share is
44:26
so first of all, I don't know how much you can tell 'cause
44:28
this is Zoom, but I'm not a very large person.
44:31
I'm 5, four, and I'll just say somewhere around 125 lbs.
44:38
And my fun fact is that twice a week I do jujitsu mostly with
44:43
men who are about 200, you know, 180 to 200 lbs.
44:47
And I I haven't died yet. What's the attraction to
44:53
jujitsu? What do you like about it?
44:54
So I've been doing this for about 6 1/2 years and I think
44:57
it's been about 6 years and five months that I asked myself that
45:04
same question. I don't know why I keep doing it
45:09
and yet I do. Part of me is like, there is no
45:11
logical reason you should do this.
45:16
What I do like to do is that the world of entrepreneurs and being
45:19
a leader, having difficult conversations is hard.
45:23
It's very hard, but it's like emotionally and mentally
45:25
draining. So when you do something so
45:27
physically challenging where you literally can be choked, you
45:31
literally can have parts of your body broken off and you're
45:34
choosing to do that. It it allows me to believe in
45:40
myself at a deeper level of confidence and it helps give me
45:43
perspective that I can do hard things.
45:47
For people who don't know, maybe describe a little bit Brazilian
45:49
Jiu Jitsu, the. Best way to explain it is
45:53
wrestling. So if you put a little woman
45:55
with a large man and say go ahead and wrestle, you probably
45:58
would not put the odds on someone my size.
46:03
But you hold your own. Do you do any competitions I.
46:06
Haven't yet, mostly because I stink.
46:13
I'm not that I'm not naturally, you know, like I had said
46:16
before, it's really you can find your strength when you're in
46:19
your natural environment. This is not my natural
46:22
environment. And so I don't trust myself with
46:25
people that aren't in my Academy where I learn to take care of
46:30
me, Meaning I, I, I don't, I love that these gentlemen will
46:36
listen to me if I say, you know, you're squishing me and I can't
46:39
breathe or tapping, you know, that kind of thing.
46:42
And so they, they really have a culture of respecting your
46:45
partner. So I feel safe there.
46:47
And I'm a little afraid to like, I don't really want to be
46:52
broken. I do want to go up to work.
46:55
So as much as that it's possible by accident, I'd say in my, in
47:00
my Academy, it's not always not, I don't want to say intentional,
47:05
but it's not as easy when you're not used to working with people
47:08
for them to know your signs or see that like, Hey, this is too
47:11
much. So that keeps me.
47:14
There's still a little bit of fear in there, if that makes
47:17
sense. But I, I, I like to think it's
47:19
smart fear. Yeah.
47:22
I mean, safety first, right? Yeah, I, I love what you're
47:25
saying. I mean, it's, it's a very
47:26
physical endeavor. It it, you can't help but turn
47:30
off sort of the thinking part of your brain.
47:32
You're just in sort of like, you know, fight or flight, like
47:35
reaction mode. And that that's, that's good.
47:38
Like, you know, as people who are doing very cerebral jobs all
47:41
day, we're stuck in our heads. There's a lot of chatter that
47:43
going on up there. To be able to find something, an
47:45
outlet where you can turn that off.
47:48
Is, is, is refreshing, rejuvenating, right?
47:51
It is. And do get more present.
47:54
You're talking about being in the moment.
47:55
You have to be. If you don't pay attention,
47:58
that's when you can get hurt. Jenna, are there specific
48:03
mentors or books that have been helpful to you or your
48:07
professional career? Yeah, so me as a, as a leader, I
48:13
started with a lot of the great books of like Think and Grow
48:17
Rich and How to How to Win Friends and all of that kind of
48:21
stuff. And so there's a lot of the like
48:23
classics are classics for a reason.
48:25
So I recommend those, as I mentioned, one of my favorite
48:29
mentors. I love his courses.
48:30
I love what he stands for and I bring it into my work often
48:34
times. But I also continue to grow is
48:37
through Darren Hardy has great free stuff and great paid for
48:41
stuff and I invest in it all 'cause it really does make me
48:45
better. One of the one of the things
48:49
that I say for as ACEO, some of the better books for my
48:52
position. If the if you're in that
48:55
position, Traction is a classic. EMS is a classic, Predictable
49:00
Success is a newer one that I really appreciate and have
49:05
brought in not as well known. I think Les Mccullen is the name
49:09
of the author. That's a really good one.
49:11
And then if you get into also the, the most business owners
49:16
and even some CE OS are not as comfortable with the numbers.
49:19
So great. Crabtree has a book called
49:21
simple numbers. That's a great one too.
49:23
So it kind of gives you I, I like to look at the strategy,
49:27
the business approach, the, the structure you need.
49:32
And then also just like the numbers you need as well as
49:35
leadership. That's like what my job is all
49:37
about is those bigger pieces. And so hopefully that's a good
49:42
kind of a bouquet of things that will help Co OS out there.
49:46
That's terrific. Jen, I just have one more
49:49
question for you. But before I ask it, I want to
49:51
do 2 things. First of all, if you're
49:52
listening today and you like today's content, please hit the
49:55
subscribe, like or share button on your favorite podcast app.
49:58
The second thing I want to do is tell people how to get in touch
50:01
with you. They listen to your story today.
50:03
This is interesting. I want to learn more.
50:04
I, I, I want to learn more about the fractional COO collective.
50:08
How do they get in touch with you?
50:09
The. Best way is through e-mail.
50:11
I'm also on LinkedIn at Jen Hamilton, but you might find
50:14
there's a few of us out there. So start with the e-mail and we
50:17
can also connect on on LinkedIn. So Jen Jen at Hamilton Co OS
50:22
with a, with a, a, a plural s.com is the best way to reach
50:28
me. And I again, like I had said
50:32
here, if you've got something you're dealing with, you want to
50:34
take advantage on on behalf of it, Anthony, and being able to
50:37
share this one of those office hours where you can think
50:40
through some of those challenges, I'm more than happy
50:43
to to do a complimentary and so you can e-mail me and like, wow.
50:46
Very generous that. That's a very nice offer.
50:49
Thank you. It's fun.
50:50
I, I mean, I can't, I can't deny it that I enjoy being able to
50:54
hear business problem and then work together with that leader
50:57
to solve it. It's kind of how your brain's
51:00
wired, I can tell. Like you enjoy.
51:02
I'm curious, do you like jigsaw puzzles?
51:05
Because you're kind of you're, you're kind of figuring out
51:08
business puzzles in your yes. I do love solving puzzles.
51:12
I I should like chess, but I haven't learned it yet.
51:17
So. But yes, that kind of those
51:19
types of games are fun for me, yeah.
51:21
So last question for you, Jen, I'm curious, how do you see your
51:24
industry evolving in the next five years?
51:26
What do you think the big changes are that are coming?
51:30
So for the fractional CEO, if I get specific in that industry,
51:35
what I do see is more and more people trying it out because
51:39
it's becoming known and more and more people failing if they
51:45
don't invest in themselves to know how to nail the marketing
51:50
the and sales side of it type of thing.
51:52
And so I, I really hope that's not the case.
51:55
It's part of why I do what I do because we are so needed.
51:58
So that's the other side of what I see as the trend is that as
52:02
the solution for these small businesses becomes more known,
52:07
that a fractional COO can actually help me with these
52:11
things that have me stressed out or stuck or, you know, hitting a
52:15
plateau. Their demand I think is going to
52:18
go up. And so it's a matter of for me
52:22
really having having the ability, like I feel my role in
52:26
that and that creating that future that has the balanced
52:29
work is advocating and educating small businesses.
52:34
So I appreciate, Anthony, the opportunity to share like what's
52:36
possible without having to be a major budget hit by having that
52:40
this kind of brain in your business.
52:43
And then also what's possible for fractional CEO's to know
52:46
that you can do it. You can join a firm like I did,
52:49
but if you really do have that nagging feeling inside and you
52:52
want to do it on your own, don't be alone.
52:55
And that's why I say it. Be a part of our community, get
52:57
some help, do something to make sure you get over the scary part
53:02
of having to do business development.
53:05
It's a great resource for fractional Co OS or aspiring Co
53:09
OS. Well, Jen, I want to be the
53:10
first one to thank you so much for sharing both your time and
53:13
your story with us today. I appreciate it.
53:15
Thank you. For having me, it's my honor.
53:17
Thank you for what you do for the world because you folks like
53:21
you that are serving clients make my job a little bit easier
53:24
when you can. As I said, it's all about the
53:26
people. I don't care if you're in
53:27
professional services or not, and if you can have those people
53:30
want to be a part of the team, feel honored as part of the
53:33
team, feel seen as like what they need for themselves and
53:37
their family is important. It makes my job easier so thank
53:40
you. That's wonderful.
53:43
I appreciate you saying that, folks.
53:45
That's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
53:48
I appreciate you learning with us today.