Latest / The Unmaking / S01E06: Ben Wallbank - Filmmaker. Tititea / Mt. Aspiring Lookout

Transcript

S01E06: Ben Wallbank - Filmmaker. Tititea / Mt. Aspiring Lookout · The Unmaking

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: so ben welcome to the unmaking where are we parked and why
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: thanks john uh it's very uh exciting
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: to be here actually this is my very first ever podcast so yeah podcast version
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: until now uh we're down at uh glendoo bay at
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: the mount aspiring titania car park lookout we'll just be on that on the beach
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: and i think this place is just sublime for coming out of town
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: and just getting amongst the mountains and the view of titania
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: that you can't usually see in town
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: and i think you said you you like to stop here regularly if you
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you are driving past just to sort of say hello and take a moment totally yeah if
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: if i'm in a hurry you know it's always just a slow down and
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: and just you know just cause a bit of backlog with the traffic and just cruise
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: by just to take it in it's it is world class down here and you know
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: before we started we were just on the beach and there's no one here and i think
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: if this was anywhere else in the world
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: we'd have hordes of people and crowds and things and i'm hopefully not going
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: to spoil it with lots of people coming here now but it's uh it's special you know
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: and i don't not being from this country i don't want to ever take that for granted
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: so i think it's the reason i stop and have a look
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: you you've lived in plenty of other places
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: though have you had similar um i guess totems that you've had in those places um
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: where you have taken a moment to go and you know look at things and appreciate
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: where you are why yeah so i mean from the uk originally and i've been
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: in new zealand 13-ish years now and within new zealand i've been in nelson
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: and taranaki
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the thing that drew me to New Zealand is also
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: the things I probably use as a totem in those places and it's generally
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: the mountains, the ocean and the outdoors.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: My draw to coming into this country was for all of
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: the beauty that has outside
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah I think there are just key points
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: in each these places like mountains
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: that would probably hold that for me.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: is the is the taproot going in here or do you think this could still also be
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: a stopover on a journey to somewhere else oh that's
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: a good question i'm i'm someone who's known for having itchy feet and i've been
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: in wanaka now for about seven years i think um
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: and i i like to explore but wanaka wanaka had something very special for me
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: and it's all linked to actually the first time i came here um and
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: that was you know like i said about 13 years ago i was on a tour bus touring around
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: the country never been to new zealand before i was on a working holiday visa and
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: got down to wanaka with some friends i've made on the way by this point
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: and i'll never forget stopping in town hopping off the bus and looking around
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: and had this overwhelming feeling of home and that's there's a it's
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: a really weird way to describe something i think
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: because i can't actually articulate it anyway other than a feeling of home
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: and i remember saying to the people i was
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: with you know i'm gonna live here one day i need i need to live here i need
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: to move here and they thought i was crazy because we were you know working holiday
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: and how are you gonna get a visa how are you gonna get
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: a job here what are you gonna do and it took me you know a few years of living
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: in new zealand to make it happen but i've traveled south
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: eventually from talanaki nelson and then in wanaka and here i am and uh it's yeah
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: that that feeling of home for me that connection is something
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: that i never even had back in england so it tells me that
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: while i do have itchy feet i'm probably gonna be sticking around
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: you um i think you had also had itchy feet as a as a kid from from what i've read
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: about your childhood it sounds like you weren't someone
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: that perhaps school was was real traditional school systems were designed
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: for um what were you looking for back then that the the classroom couldn't provide
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: for you oh god i mean if my if my mum was sitting here she'd probably have lots
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: to say about my level of itchy feet and uh trying to keep up with me i think i was
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: a handful i think is the word she'd probably use on
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: a podcast um i've i've just always liked running around doing things i've always
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: been very active um if so if someone points something out
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: and this happened recently we were bizarrely down in jackson's bay
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: and someone pointed out something on the end of the the jetty just out of curiosity
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: and for them it was just curiosity but for me i had to actually go down there
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: and check it out and tinker and see what it looked like and what's the view like
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: from there and that was my childhood so for someone like me to do
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: a traditional westernized classroom environment for a topic
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: that wasn't overly inspiring for me was was challenging and i think that's
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: the nuance because
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: what i've learned about myself over the years is that if there's
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: an academic situation for something that draws me in then you know i'm i'm all
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: in i will i will be committed to that and be able to sit still and everything else
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: but um yeah you know learning about um pythagoras theory
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: and uh i think my gcse history was the american west
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: and it just didn't really appeal to me back then uh so i
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I often found myself going off on adventures
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: or doing extracurricular activities around the school that didn't involve me sitting
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: in a in a classroom
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you talk about the family camera and
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: that you were quite keen once you got your finger on
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: the shutter, the button that you'd be basically launching through that whole film. Was that
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: something that you just basically wanted to keep on shooting or you didn't really understand
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: the economics of photography at that point? And perhaps taking more time to take a single shot
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: rather than shooting off a whole bunch of the same thing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: sorry so we you know we weren't um we weren't like a a rich family or flash
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: or anything like that we we had a
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: an old school film 35 mil film camera didn't have video cameras uh but i remember
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: The joy I got from taking pictures, even if they weren't anything that
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd really curated the joy of actually getting them printed.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's thing we've maybe lose a digital isn't it?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Taking to the shop not knowing what your photo is going to look like and then
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: anticipation in getting this photo
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: and going huh that's that's actually really kind of cool and and
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: the photos were often with people my family in them and they're that moment frozen
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: in time and they just hold a lot of memories to them but i never you talk about
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: the economics i never really i guess connected the dots with taking photos for fun
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: and and what that can feel for you can lead into other things in life um this is
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: a conversation i've had actually quite recently with my partner about um
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: when you're at school or when i was
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: at school anyway you were given these career days and they were very much designed
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: about okay what what's your what's your grades in which subjects and what would
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: that translate to in a career like what would you be good at doing for most
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: of your life monday to friday
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: and i think we completely ignore what makes you happy like what what do you want
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: to do with your life that brings you joy
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: and um i think there's it's yeah it was only later in life
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: that i've probably really made that connection and i i like to think that the way
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: that education is going these days is that we actually encourage that that train
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: of thought rather than be quite a to b to c and you know
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: because i think at that time for you you you decided to to study computing i think
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: which sounds like
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: a pretty pragmatic decision knowing knowing what you do now um how has have those
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: sorts of decisions ended
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: when you've you've made those pragmatic decisions have they ended well um looking
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: back you say yep that was uh that was the right thing age and stage or
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: so i i think i think everything i've done has led me to where i am now
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: and i'm grateful and happy for where i am now so to say that i would want
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: to do something different it would be interesting because where would i be
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah back then you know it was the was even the two thousands just about i think
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: and the internet was was kind of growing
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: and we hadn't had social media we didn't really even have wi-fi
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: and computing seemed like the obvious choice to go into um but it was it was
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: a logic based decision it wasn't born out of passion you know i i'm good good
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: with computers i'm naturally
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: good with tech i understand it and that may be part of my history as well
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: with what i've learned but it was always just a stepping stone to oh i need to get
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: a job what's a good industry to be in computers seem like a good pathway right now
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: so that's what formed that decision which ultimately took a hard left turn
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: as they often do those sorts
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: of pragmatic decisions particularly career decisions right yeah yeah
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: and i think it uh as a teenager as well you were in a serious car accident and
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: and were surprised at the take charge person that uh popped their head up the the in
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: in yourself in that situation and why were you surprised by that was that something
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: that just hadn't exhibited itself at all in your personality yes so so that was
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: the hard left that was well actually you know
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: pun not intended the hard right but uh i was going through computing i was
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: in college and i just got my driver's license and i was
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: with some friends driving we went to see a movie one night in brighton on the south
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: of england most people will know it or been there or heard of it and i was young
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: and dumb and i was driving
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: incredibly fast with my friends.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was all fun and games at the time.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then a drink driver pulled out on me and being so inexperienced and driving
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: so fast, I crashed into a parked car on the other side of the road.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: At such a velocity that I actually managed to shunt that car up onto the pavement.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And all four of us in the car were unconscious at time of the crash and even now it's hard
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: to kind of think back to that, it was one of the darkest moments of my life because
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: the girl who was sitting behind me unbeknownst to me wasn't wearing a seatbelt.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And she had actually come forward,
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: and I came around from being unconscious to her head kind of in my lap.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she wasn't moving.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And in that moment, I was absolutely adamant that I'd killed my friend.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And everything was ringing in my ears.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: The airbags had gone off.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was smoke in the car.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: there was in some ways almost no thought as to what to do but yet i knew what to do
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: and my friend in the front seat next to me was coming around and he got himself out
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: of the vehicle and i had gone around to get my friend behind me you know check
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: on her get her out the vehicle and you know farmer carried her to the side of
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: the road like well clear of
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: where the crash was to make sure it was safe in case something set
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: on fire she luckily came around but had a massive leg injury which
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: at night I again went straight into somehow knowing what to do
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: and tourniquet her leg with my clothes
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: and did that initial triage got everyone that's safe went back to the car secured
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: the car um and at the point that everyone was okay i was standing in the road
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: and i collapsed and i think the adrenaline has obviously just done its thing
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: and my purpose in that moment was done and
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: the next thing i remember is being carried by firefighter into an ambulance
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: and you know the rest is is history from from that side of things
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah it's yeah it's interesting having just said a few minutes ago
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: about not regretting your past decisions that have led you here but
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: that is definitely one that i i will carry with me and everyone's fine nowadays
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: but um yeah
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's interesting that your memories are also so clear from that because often
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: then your body will jump in and particularly in that where you you're really
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: on autopilot and it sounds almost like an out of body experience that you're having
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: that your body will say oh this is too traumatic i'm just going to blank
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: this little bit so you you can't remember i've been in
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: a car accident similar age late teenage
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: and i don't remember anything i remember being in the car heading down the road and
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: the next minute you know standing on the side of the road
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: but there was i didn't lose consciousness at all but there's just no memory of
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: the impact and the immediate after aftermath
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: um and so looking back and then and then that was
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: then okay this is really interesting i'm good at this where's the best place
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: to apply these skills or to develop them further or was that then part
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: of your your thinking then to go in the career direction that you you did
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: yeah it definitely wasn't an immediate thought uh there was a there was a lot
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: of uh psychological recovery that i had to go
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: through i couldn't even i mean driving back from the hospital the following morning
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: with my parents in the car i was i was terrified to even be a passenger in a car for
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: about six months it was really really hard for me and getting back
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: to driving again had to go and have lessons again
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: because it was just i was absolutely terrified that i was gonna hurt myself
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: or someone else
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: i was convinced of it and through the investigation process with police for
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: the crash um there was there was kind of an evolution of understanding about myself
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: and my dad was there during those those police interviews where they came
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: to my house and it's almost organically developed into this conversation with
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: the police officer and my dad and me about well
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: where you know depending on the outcome
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: of this investigation what would ben's opportunities chances be of you know joining
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: the police and i don't know whether that conversation was a result of the outcome of
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: the investigation which
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know i didn't get an actual conviction um at all it was yeah i don't know
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: if it looks at my age and took that all into consideration but um or
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: the drink driver i don't know but uh yeah for everything that came out of
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: that i um i ended up joining the police at a very young age and that taught me
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: to grow up very quickly as you can imagine you're going
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: into some pretty sketchy situations and i you know i'm not sure i do now but uh
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: i've always been called junior for the way i look and when i joined
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: the police i looked about 12 so you're going going into the people's houses kind
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: of telling them what needs to be done and they're looking back
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: at you going should should you be here have you have you borrowed that uniform
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: from someone so it was yeah it was a big big learning curve to um yeah
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: to suddenly grow up and and yeah step out into the world
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're obviously very good at it, you encountered terrorism, organised crime.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: You became one of the youngest tactical flight officers in the country.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So in terms of those sort of skill sets that you had and have been able to apply
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: at that sort of thing, were you aware at the time that hey I'm really good
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: at this but it doesn't quite fit or did it really feel like it fit at the
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: time.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think reflecting on my childhood and not being able to sit still so much
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: and always having to have something going on for me,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: the police work that I ended up getting into
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: because I had certain attributes with the way I can communicate
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: and the fact that I didn't look like a police officer led me
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: into those specialist areas.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: it was always dynamic every single day we were around the southeast of
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: the country uh doing yeah some fun things and all you know helicopter
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: then developed off the towards the end of my career in the uk and
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: that was you know several years flying around in a police helicopter and
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: doing the the kind of counter-terrorism stuff on the side of that
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: and it was it was good in a way
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: that they would almost just let you work every single day with no days off
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: but you know work-life balance took a hit through that period
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: but i was loving it it was it was fun it was adventurous and um i got to see
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: and do some things that yeah almost couldn't imagine sometimes it's quite funny
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: you must have had some some pretty traumatic or being exposed
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: to some quite traumatic situations as part of that was that something
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: that you found relatively easy to deal with and process or was that
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: a uh i just keep moving um you know there's always going to be tomorrow
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: and something new and and uh to take your mind off things or to distract you yeah
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: god that's uh yeah that's opening up pandora's box isn't it i so
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: when i was maybe my first six months of being on the beat so you do before i got
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: into the specialist units you obviously have a period
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: of you know community street cop and um i think it was in the first six months
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: so i'm 18 and i went to my first homicide and
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: marie harding still remember her name had been bless her she'd been stabbed
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: and it was really traumatic she was still she was unconscious but still alive
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: when i found her and yeah to go through that as an 18 year old
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: was huge and i didn't really appreciate how how much it would potentially affect me
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: and there's obviously interventions in place where you you go to an incident like
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: that and there's there's enforced help that you have to go and speak to someone
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: and kind of debrief but uh yeah there's there's there's a number
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: of things you know having a gun pointed at me for the first time and someone holding
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: a hatchet over my head like these are things that now i
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: i talk about and they i have such i guess a mental resilience to things like that
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: but you speak to someone who hasn't been in that situation and they look
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: at you wide-eyed going
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: your mental what are you why are you almost smiling about these experiences
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: but they yeah they they callous your mind and and they give you this resilience
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: that i guess continues for for the rest of your life which is why some things now
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: when they feel stressful i laugh it off and i'm like well no one's chasing me with
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: a knife right now you know what's the worst that can happen
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: the helicopter work you mentioned it gave you a lot of time like many many hundreds
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: of hours operating like a gimbal and things like that did you see that as just
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: a purely technical um task that you were performing or was that really
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: a you know creative uh work or role yeah i mean i flying with the yeah
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: the helicopter cameras and you never i was never looking at framing it as a
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know something cinematic different
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: to how i'd frame something now it was very you know follow the car follow
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: the person um you know give give a jury a context of a a scene from above um
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: but i i was good at the multitasking so when you're a crewman on
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: the police helicopter that i was on we had a pilot a paramedic and a
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: the flight officer that was me
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: and when you do a medical job you become the second paramedic and
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: then police jobs you're obviously doing the police things
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: so you're navigating you're operating through your radios you're on
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: a camera you're checking airspace you're communicating in
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: the cockpit it was it was very full-on but it was something that i found i was good
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: at and operating the camera i was always able to
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: was always able to kind of visualize almost visualize the edit which
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: as i'd say it now of like okay this is going
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: to look this way what what else do people need to see in this footage
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: so you'd frame frame the image to give that context which yeah is is
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: a different kind of creative i guess
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: i think you've recently started to better rationalize or understand that that early
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: or those earlier careers and work and how that's enabled your success
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: in film around communication and how to understand people's stories what shifted
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: for you in that conversation are you fully on board with with believing it
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: or is this still a work in progress to to understand how how these things have led
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: to to where you are now and what you're doing
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i mean i i would be the first to say that i'm always a work in progress myself
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: but i don't think you ever reach an end point in career or your personal growth
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: but it it was so he's a new friend and we met in queenstown and he's
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: i joked with him at the time he's like a brother from another mother we've lived
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: in separate countries all our life but have had a crossover with our experiences
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: and how we see the world is quite similar and i was very drawn very drawn to him
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: and we had this conversation and i opened up about my past
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: and i thought i don't really share too much of it because you know i don't want
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: to be you know seen as as my past i want to be seen as who i am now
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: and he was like oh yeah but what what uh what did that give you what what was
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: that able to what were you able to learn from those years doing policing
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: and no one's ever asked me that before and it honestly stopped me dead
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: outside that's yeah that's interesting what okay it was giving me an understanding
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: of people's stories like you you meet new people where every single day lots
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: of them potentially and you have to take what they're telling you interpret
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: the story and go from there and then you've got to communicate back to them
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: and you've got to gain their trust and you've got to be able to be the person
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: that they're willing to open up to and tell you their story
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: and it gave me that and gave me obviously the resilience to to take
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: on like pressured situations and pivot a lot in a moment's notice and and
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: as we kept talking all these things kept coming out
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: and he was he was prompting me kind of helping me unwrap this which was really kind
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: of him and since then and that was only a month ago since
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: then it's actually almost given me this this new perspective and coincided
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: with you reaching out and us doing this podcast
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah i think i probably should be more cognizant of my past
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: and how it's informed my my skills that i take for granted now so
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: when we're doing film work and i have to interview someone and i need them
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: to just ignore the camera ignore the microphones and talk to me
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe get emotional or maybe i'm wanting to get emotion from them
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: i find that easy for me i like people and people seem to like opening up
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: and i think part of that is probably based on seeing people
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: in their worst possible moments and you know sitting down with them
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: and saying hey what's happened
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: because when when people do find out about your previous life and careers i think
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: the uniform reaction is kind
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: of shock horror disbelief surprise well why do you think
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: that is why do you think people are so surprised that what this guy used to be
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: a cop what what do you think that is behind that so there's there's two lines that
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: that always come out and the first line is what you're way too nice to be a cop
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: should be but no I understand why you say that and the other one is you don't look like a cop
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: you look too friendly and too warm and too happy to be a cop which
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: says something about me which is great but I think unfortunately probably says
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: something about the state of our legal systems around
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: the world potentially um yeah i understand there's there's a time to be
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: uh in charge 100 been there but i think it's probably more important to start from
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: a place of openness and communication it's interesting i think that
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: the police i i um had the privilege pleasure of uh of training a bunch
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: of undercover detectives teaching them english uh when i was first living in uh
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: in germany and probably 50 percent
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: of them regardless of what they were wearing or what they were doing or
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: where i would encounter them i would have immediately gone yep cop um but
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: the other half less so and be interested
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: to know i mean this was 20 years ago how many of those people are still in the force
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: and and from that proportion um yeah or whether those uh those things have changed
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: yeah yeah because there is that stereotype isn't there you can look at someone
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: and go yeah you you know you look like a cop and i don't know what it is that gives
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: that impression but um yeah i never i never get people assuming
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: that i always give them the opportunity they go what did you used to do
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: and i say okay imagine take what i do now very creative and flip it
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: on its head what is the what is a very black and white rule driven
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: uh kind of here's your handrails job that you could do and people usually say accountant
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: so i've never been an accountant don't know if that's accurate but yeah no one ever guessed is
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: though used to be in the police which is yeah i take that as a pat on the back
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: so 29 um you sold your camera and said okay i'm off um coming to new zealand what were
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: you leaving versus what were you moving towards where were you at at that point
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, I was 29.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: the itchy feet was was screaming it was it was
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: so loud i was you know i was comfortable like things were great i was
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: in a helicopter flying around doing these fun things I had a roof over my
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: head, have an income. In the UK you when you sign up to the police
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: over there you signed up for 30 years so you know your start date and
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: end date and then you get a pension so your life is kind of mapped out
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that gives you security.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: and that's that's that's great that's fine um but i was i guess the nature of
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: that career i was surrounded by people who were much older than me and there was
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of people who were a little bit of a cynic or they were just unhappy and
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: i didn't want to ever get to that stage where i don't want to go to work
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: or you know something's beating me down and you know the system
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: or whatever it is i was like okay if i don't do something like soon i
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: that like that's my pathway i i'm gonna be a mirror of that
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: okay well what do i what do i do and somewhere along the line and there's lots
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: of like micro stories within that but i basically ended up buying selling my camera
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: to fund a one-way ticket to new zealand a country that i'd never been to
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: that i had googled once and thought wow look at those mountains i want to go there
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: that was it i sold pretty much everything i owned and much to my mom's dismay
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: and um she was she was saying ah benny are you sure you're not going
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: to need these things when you come back i was like i know what you're doing mom
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: but i i don't think i'll uh i don't think i'll be needing them again and
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: that was it i came here one-way ticket and uh landed in auckland
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: which was interesting for the first couple
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: of nights i was there there was you know some i think it was like a stabbing across
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: the road or something and i was next door to a brothel and i remember having
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: a conversation with my sister on the phone i was like i might as well come back
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: to england because it's it's just like it's the same but at least in england i have
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: a job
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: and she was like no no no wait it out and i'm really grateful for that phone call
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: with her because she was like just just get on the bus tomorrow go and see the rest
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: of the country and then just just take it day by day and that's what i did
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: and i think within new zealand there's always the joke about once you get south of
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: the bombays you the world changes it's probably a bit more developed nowadays but
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: that was it for me we we started to drive south and then i saw what i would define
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: as
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: the real new zealand of why i came here and that was just the the vast outdoors and
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: the beauty and you know mountains and volcanoes and wildlife
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: that you know i've not been exposed to before and and people my god i love
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: the people like kiwis are awesome um yeah they just are and and they are
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: a massive part of wanting to stay here
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: so you traveled around you checked out the country and then how did you end up
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: in taranaki then at that point yeah so
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: so i probably made it sound a bit more reckless than it actually was coming out here
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: but i did um i did put some feelers out before leaving and hopping on a plane and
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: because i was doing helicopter work in the police i reached out to
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: the rescue helicopter service around the country i know there's at
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: the time there was i think it was like 18 different bases pretty much all
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: individually run as a trust and
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: quite a few of them were interested to meet talk about potential work and it just
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: so happened that the first one on my travels that coincided with where i was at
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: the time was talanaki in new plymouth
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember going in there and had a coffee with the team
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And met their training officer at the time, a guy called Jaden Strickland
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Who I'm still friends with now
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a job coming up
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost like the universe was like
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Here you go
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's an opportunity
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to work for it
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there's other people going for the same job
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: But there's something there
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately got the job
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: and then i was a rescue helicopter crewman up there for a couple
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: of years doing yeah again some some fun wild adventures uh winching people off
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: the top of mount talanaki who thought it was a good idea to go up in gumboots um
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: or jandals people would have their jandals and then ring us
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: because their jandals was snapped climbing a mountain
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: and you're like what are you what are you doing equipment failure
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: yeah so anyway uh lots of fun things the marine rescues they were yeah they were at
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: the pointy end of what we did there because you're winching someone out of
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: a moving environment
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: and the pilot has to work extremely hard
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: to generally point out towards the ocean
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: so their visual references are pretty limited
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm hanging out the door
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: they call it conning
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: where you direct the aircraft up, down
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: forwards, backwards
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: and the Pilot puts complete trust in your direction
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you tell him to go down 10
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: he will go down 10 and um you just have to be really on your game and
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: when there's swell and waves coming in you've got someone in
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: the water who's you know drowning effectively and you've got to pick them up with
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: a rescue swimmer it's it's full on but i i love
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: that that's it's what i really thrived on
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: was there any cultural difference between the work and the type of work with things
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: a little more i mean i'm imagining that perhaps in new zealand sometimes things are
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit fast and loose when it comes to rules um regulations and particularly
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: in a high stress situation where it's about saving someone's life
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: and there may be certain steps and protocols that normally would be followed but uh
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: or was it pretty much no 100 percent one-to-one
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: ah i think no so i very quickly in new zealand learnt the term she'll be right
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: and uh still use that to this day but no when it came to the
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: the real pointy end stuff like you you can't put you
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: going and doing search and rescue in an aircraft usually you're doing it when
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: the weather's really marginal or terrible because that's
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: when other people need extra help so you're already pushing the envelope with
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: with safety and i'm using that term inverted commas
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: because we are we are still being safe we're working in parameters
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: that we know we can operate in and if shit hits the fan we can extricate ourselves
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: without anyone getting hurt
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: um but you you go up to that line if someone's
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: in trouble you you do absolutely everything that you can um up to the point
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: where you just don't make their emergency become your emergency did you feel that
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: When you were here, it was familiar in terms of the type of work that you were doing but
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: it was sort of familiar yet foreign or did you feel further from yourself than before
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: or closer because of the environment was different?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: How did you felt at that point?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when I made the decision to leave UK,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: it was a very
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: clear decision for me i was i was very at peace with it i had to say goodbye
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: to all my friends you know we're still connected the world's a small place with
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: the internet now um saying goodbye to family was very hard
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: and you know again we we connect online but not seeing them face to face is hard um
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: so
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: i was yeah i was really okay with being somewhere completely new and i was very open
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: to it i guess is is what i'm saying like my mindset was was very like let's just do
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: it do everything obviously there are there's huge differences between the uk
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: and here um you know they're two islands at the other side of the planet but
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: environmentally culturally very different here you know england's history
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: with our colonization goes back thousands and thousands and thousands
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: of years you know we're a mishmash of you know parts of europe probably a bit
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: of africa scandinavia in there as well you know it's it's all blended in whereas the
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: the history in new zealand is is so much fresher and i think because of
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: that i think that's why it's so much more conversational
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that there is that different element of culture here.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, place names is probably the biggest thing
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: that told me that I was in a foreign place
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: when we'd be flying to a place called Phongamomona
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: trying to spell that one for the first time
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: or say it was good fun
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah, I like to think
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: that I embrace New Zealand
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: for New Zealand
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know, I'm a Kiwi now
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have a passport, but...
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know i still came to this country as a visitor what came after search and rescue
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: yeah so search and rescue was a couple of years in and my sister
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: by this point who's my only sibling had actually moved out to nelson
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: with her family um your poor parents yeah i know yeah yeah we do love you guys i
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: promise but uh she moved out with her family husband two kids my niece and nephew
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: to nelson uh her husband had a job so they were all all tickety-boo and i wanted
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: to be able to
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: to move closer to her,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: to be nearer to her
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: and also to have a bit of flexibility
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: to see this country.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in this new place
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see it
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I wantと explore
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the shift work
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: at The Rescue Helicopter
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: was tough
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: You were 96 hours working
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you are in the office
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: or in the base
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: from office hours
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: like nine to five
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: but then you're on call for the entirety of the day so these 96 hours a couple
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: of days two and a half days off we had to be back in
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: so what would predominantly happen is you do your your base days because
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: the requirements for deployment were so much shorter in your call time so you had
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: to be there by the aircraft and then you go home and
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: of course people don't usually call for help until they really really need it so
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: the sun goes down at seven eight o'clock at night pager goes off you go back in
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: so you'd end up doing these huge days
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: and then middle of the night you get called out
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: and uh yeah it was it was just really hard and i could i could feel
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: that it was something that almost presented an element of risk if i was going
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: to be fatigued doing that job long term so you know new country
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: and somewhat naively actually
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: rejoined the place and then nelson yeah yeah nelson and that was again born out
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: of wanting to move around the country and being near my sister
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do I say in hindsight, maybe that chapter of my life
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I probably should have just let go in England.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: But again,
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I became so institutionalized by
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: my time in the UK doing that job
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: that you actually forget that there's something completely outside
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: of public sector and
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: the thought of doing something that wasn't either search
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: and rescue or a public service effectively.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: was really foreign to me so because you know i left college and went into the police
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: and didn't do a degree i had this mindset of oh well i think you probably need to go
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: to university to do something bigger better whatever
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: which i now know is completely not true
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: and yeah rejoin the place did some time in in nelson and um ultimately
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: then yeah moved down to to wanaka off the back of that while still doing well whilst
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: the the photo and video kind of passion was was actually building in the background
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: at the same time so having sold my camera to move to new zealand i
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know bought another one and then it was the dawn of action cameras so
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: that made video really accessible
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: and i started just just goofing around again it was just that passion
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: that this is fun i like i like doing this so i did and i never at that time made
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: the connection to hey you know you can do this for a career um it took me to be
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: paid for a gig to go wait what you're you're gonna pay me this is really weird and
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: then a film coincided with a film festival at the same time in
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: the states had seen one of my really really stupid videos online
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: and said oh can we can we use this as an interlude between a couple
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: of films my first response was like hell no i edited that
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: on my phone it's awful it's very it's amateur and they're like no no no
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: but it's really funny and goofy and we like it so
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: is that okay fair enough and that was honestly that was the start that was
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: the light bulbs like what am i doing doing this job that yes i can do
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: but ultimately isn't making me happy when really the thing
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: that makes me happy i've been doing all along just in the background
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: what would you say to a to a young police officer then a cop
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: whose his uniforms perhaps feeling a little too too constricting
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: or tight uh what advice would you you have for them from a from a creativity
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: and self-expression perspective because i imagine you know being in
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: an institution like that that's not really encouraged or at least it wasn't in
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: the past i think it's more so now and certainly i've seen from some of
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: the things like recruiting videos that new zealand police have been
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: doing over the last few years i would say wow that looks really interesting whether
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: or not that reflects the reality inside the force is perhaps
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: a different thing i've certainly had that uh that experience where
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: a corporate corporation told me oh this is exactly the sort of person we're looking
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: for someone who's questioned questions everything no they weren't they weren't we're
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: looking for that sort of person at all but that was what they thought they were
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: so how do you see that yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna temper my answer a little bit
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: on this um
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: i think i think if i was going to speak to that person who's in that job
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: then they know what it's like and as simplistic as it is and i know it's not
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: a click your fingers and it will happen but do what makes you happy and if
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: if something is making you unhappy then move towards the happiness faster
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: and i get that that's a journey and it you know took me to me years years and years
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: and years to get where i am
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: but do do one do one thing next week one thing next month that moves you towards
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: that goal research something that interests you talk to someone connect
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: with someone visit a place because life is too short not to be fully happy
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: because you know i think about i think about my deathbed a lot
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's a little bit morbid, but I don't think we talk about death as much
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: as we should do.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only guarantee you were born and then we die.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I don' t want to be on my deathbed in whatever, however that looks going, oh,
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had X or if I'd just done Y like that, that keeps me up at night.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: No regrets.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: yeah yeah so and and that's it like we're all a product of our past environment
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: and our history like we we totally are but i think if you're in the present moment
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: and something's on your mind and your gut is telling you i think we don't listen
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: to our gut enough your gut is telling you something isn't right here i'm not
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: entirely fulfilled
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: then you know explore other options
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: that could make you happier yeah i'm not telling someone to do a reflex
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: and just like yeah throw something across the room and say i'm out
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: and you know don't let the door hit you on the way out
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: but uh yeah i think pursue what makes you happy
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: so you're self-taught i know you you struggle a little bit with
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: that imposter syndrome still that it's still there um do you think
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: that would be different if you'd gone through a more formal path of qualification
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: or sort of that whole apprenticeship kind of thing just starting at
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: the very very bottom going to fetch cigarettes and coffees and whatever it is
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: and working your way up through that through
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: that food chain yeah i i think imposter syndrome is so so interesting and
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: and i used to think it was just something that creatives had and that's not true
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: from from what i've learned from speaking to people and something else that's kind
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: of made me i guess happy in a way is i actually heard a
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: uh a podcast with it was either it was either like james cameron
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: or stephen spielberg like you know the top of the top
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: and they were reciting this time recently where they walked onto a set
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: and they had no idea what to do and they were like oh god i'm so out of my depth i'm
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: so glad there's a whole crew around me who can just do all the things
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: and my assistant director can just like put some paper in front of me
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: and go are you good with this yep yep that looks good and then go with the day
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: so i i think so many people
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: get this imposter syndrome and maybe just don't know what it is it's like it's
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: that gut feeling sometimes or it's something that keeps you up at night but coming
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: at coming into my
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: kind of creative life through an unconventional way actually these days doesn't seem that
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: unconventional I'm trying to think locally out of all the creatives I know
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: the vast vast majority of them had not done a conventional you know film school approach
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't know whether that's just a thing from this side of the world
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: or not um but i think it also leans into the type of work i do focusing on on kind
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: of the documentary world versus something like scripted features
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: which you'd see maybe more in auckland or wellington where people have kind
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: of come up the ranks and they've done a certain job title like a camera assistant
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: and they've stayed a camera assistant for x years before then developing into be
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: a camera operator and then maybe a cinematographer beyond that
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah being self-taught i mean i like it i really love
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: that i can do multiple things and in this environment in wanaka we quite often have
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: to um because of the projects we do or you know for me focusing on my work in
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: the wilderness areas and mountains especially you have to be able to carry a camera
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: and think about sound and you know okay
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: which how are we composing this do we need lighting is it possible to get lighting
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: where we are
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: do we need um do you need hair makeup do you need some sort of catering you know
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: or is it just throw some brownies in your backpack and away we go so i think the
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: the non-conventional way i don't think is anything to do
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: with imposter syndrome i think imposter syndrome for me is just my drive to want
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: to do more and do better and always be better and learn learn from others and
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: for myself to yeah improve my craft
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: how do you deal with outside or external validation then so
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: when you get positive feedback or you win a prize or you're commended
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: for some good aspects of your work is that something that sits really comfortably
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: with you do you see that as is genuine or is there still a kind
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: of i think they're just being nice or i got lucky or that was a sort of
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: a fluke not sure if i'm going to be able to replicate that no i i don't think i read
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: into it that much um
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: i think you know i so i've won awards for some of my films
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: and i've gotten some really great festivals
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: and i don't think you would no no one's doing that just
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: to you know they don't know you from adam no one's doing that to go ah he's he's got
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: a nice profile picture he seems like a nice dude we'll give him an award uh so
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: that tells me that i'm doing the right thing and that just adds fuel to the fire
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: to like that's that's great you know awards who doesn't want to get an award
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: um it's not always the sole purpose for wanting to create the purpose for me
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: to create is still about creating something creating something that evokes emotion
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's visually or through the story or audibly it's creating a connection
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: to other humans that other humans can watch and feel something
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: you said that story is really important to you
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: but also technical execution how do you balance those two things as does is one in
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: the in the driver's seat um is this they need to be hand
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: in hand how do you how do you handle that it's a balance for sure it's
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: a balance yeah um i think story story will always trump
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: technical i think we we do get focused in this consumerist world
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: of must have this camera or this is better than that i think we're actually in
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: a place with technology where you can make such a an acceptable
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: piece of work and if the story beneath it is great then it's great. We've just
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: had the New Zealand Mountain Film Festival here, it has been going for over
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: 20 years
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the award-winning films was shot on a phone
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: whole thing
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was a guy who ran
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: set new record climbing all the 50 peaks across America
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he's a Kiwi,
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: and the previous record holder set the Guinness Record all
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: the fastest known time using a private jet
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: and flew between the states. It was very glam.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: and then old mate kiwi comes along gets his dad in like a not even
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: a camper van just like a big car that he could sleep in the back of and they drove
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: between it between the states and climb these peaks
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: and he set this new guinness world record and shot it on his phone and it just made
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: for such a great story
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: so you don't need you don't always need the tech
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: of course sometimes high-end commercials they they require certain things to look
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: a certain way but i think story is important and especially in the dawn of of ai
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: and well probably not in the dawn anymore we were kind of
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: emerging even more but that's something that ai is never going to be able
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: to replicate is is human stories so from a documentarian perspective i think
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: that you'll still need humans to tell those stories
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: because like say other people want to see other people
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: i think that's one of the most interesting viewpoints i've heard on on ai was
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: from rick rubin talking about hey if you've got a got a film script and you give
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: that film script to the five llms um you will get the same product back basically or
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: the same film back but you give that script to five of
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: the world's best directors you will get five completely different films
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: because ai doesn't have a perspective in that thing
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: whereas those those individual directors do and they bring their their perspective
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: to to a creative project which i think is an interesting approach
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: 100 and you know ai is is not going anywhere like we're all certain of that
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: and it will grow and it's going to evolve but uh even i i just don't see it in
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: the future i may be wrong i may i may just be at a place where i cannot imagine it
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: but i can't see that ai will be able to
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: have the same emotional connection and like you say perspective that humans can and
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: because of that i think there'll always be a need for humans to tell
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: the stories ai will help of course it can it can break down an interview
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: and tell you key points and themes and but it can't hear the well at
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: the moment can't hear like the inflections in the voice can't hear
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: the emotion it can't hear actually something on
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: on audio is actually much deeper than it is for the written word if
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: that makes sense you know when
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: that person is actually opening up they might be saying something really quite flat
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: on script but if a human heard that they might feel something photography and
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: and film both still coexist do you see one dropping back further is this something
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: that you want to continue with both how are you approaching those
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i mean i i majority
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: of my work is is film film based um yeah there's things things are moving so fast
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: that you know there's some crazy stats aren't there at the moment
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: where someone who's in school right now by
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: the time they're 40 will experience hundreds of years of technical evolution
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: in one year and you know
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: so i don't i don't actually think we can comprehend right now
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: quite what the future is going to look like i think it is a day by day thing
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: and very soon day by day is going to change a lot and i think we need
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: to just be gentle with ourselves actually across all industries across life
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: because life is going to get or feel like it's moving quickly and i think
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: as humans you know we're not used to that we're receiving more information
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: in our brains now than we ever have across history and i think we need to just
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: be gentle with ourselves and give ourselves some grace if i look back
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: across your your body of work regardless of what it is this this sort
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: of your physical capability doesn't really seem to be particularly separate
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: from what you're doing creatively is that part of the thing of having
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: having itchy feet and needing to push yourself to the absolute extremes physically
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: and to combine that then with your with your work that you need that so you need
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: to be you know shooting in the outdoors you wouldn't be happy going to a to
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: a soundstage every day yeah
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i think the where i found myself is probably where i need to be
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: and you're right yeah if i had to shoot in
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: the studio every day i would you know i'd see the creativity in that of course
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: and you'd make it what you can but uh there's not many people i'm learning um
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: that can do
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: what's i do in the hills uh or in the outdoors or on the trails or or whatever with
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: a camera and and and the talent the story um in
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: the hills um i i love pushing myself physically uh years ago i kind of got
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: into triathlon quite heavily in the uk and went down that path and then moving
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: to new zealand i was like oh my god i don't need to train on
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: the road anymore there are these things called trails and
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: you have mountains that we can go up so so that kind of gave me
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: the natural evolution of all right how how far and fast can i go up a mountain i got
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: into ultra marathons um before covid i was yeah competing and taking
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: that quite seriously and then covid obviously killed off all of
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: the events all around the place and that was my kind of like okay
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's my chapter done. I'm ready to just do it for fun now, so still run up mountains
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: and still do these fun things and crazy things but they're there for me now not for chasing
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: a time or position on the scoreboard.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: if i look at your your your films um there's often a an element
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: of really you know stripping back peeling back layers to get to
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: the real core person somebody at the most raw most most most vulnerable is
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: that also part of what you're looking for personally when
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: when you're out doing those sports that are really pushing you to the edge
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: of your limits to see okay what is the what is the real bend is there somebody
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: that you're looking for that you're hoping to to find as part of that process
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: in those sports
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: for sure absolutely yeah like without a doubt there are there are totally jobs
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: that i get where you're shooting action and that's great and some athletes
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: with what they do is mind-blowing i couldn't couldn't do some
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: of these things you know especially around here we have a lot
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: of winter sports right i think per capita we have like one of the highest number
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: of winter olympic attendees in the world we we we punch we really do
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: and you know watch some of these people or the mountain biking or or whatever it is
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: and it's beautiful and amazing but i want to know well how did you get there
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: what what was your childhood like tell me how you deal with injury
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: where does your resilience sit when you think about having to have some downtime
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: or like if your coach says you need to rest for a week like
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: where does your mind go how do you deal with that what are you looking for in
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: the future like all of these things for me anyway are more interesting than
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: okay great he just pulled a brand new trick and a half pipe like that's that's still epic
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: and amazing and great in its own right but i think beneath that is a much bigger story
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: and that's what i really like to tap into yeah it was involved
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: with uh launching um ufc into the
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: german market and that was really interesting in terms of you know looking at how
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: to approach that
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: and really working together with the broadcaster at the time
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: to say, okay, this is not going to be interesting.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: what's going to be interesting is is there why to to understand okay
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: who is this person you know what's their background why are they doing this what is
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: the and if you can you know if you understand that and we've
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: with all those um netflix kind of behind the scenes kind of sports documentaries
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: that then explore things and suddenly people
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: that thought formula one was completely boring and now suddenly rabid fans
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: because they've seen behind the curtain and it's not just a bunch
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: of cars whizzing around the track and who gets first second or third there's a lot
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: of other sort of backstories going on there
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: yeah and it's that it's that thing again isn't it humans want
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: to see other human stories we're interested we're we're kind of societal beings
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: that like to be in a pack and you know we can extend that pack by the internet
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: and hearing stories from you know the other tribe over on the other the other island
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: or whatever the other country there's so many stories everybody has
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: a story like literally everybody has a story
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: so i wanna yeah i wanna explore those because it's yeah i just wanna explore those yeah
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you do make them interesting.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the adventure of racing, so you shot it solo.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is not something I'm personally interested in.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a fan of endurance sports but it's not something that interests me
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: but that story really interests me.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: It drew me in in terms of the challenges that they were facing
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: and first of all just getting a team together, an all-women team
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: and then the setbacks along the way
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: and then how they got through that.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: how was that experience for you was whether was there a point as part of
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: that project where you thought okay i might have bitten off a bit more
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: than i can chew here i mean you're humping all your gear on your own through there
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: with an elite uh endurance sport team um was there a point or were there points
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: where you thought okay this could go bad so yeah the adventure racing that that was
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: a that was a great film um and that was one of the ones
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: that you know did really well and won my best documentary and best film but
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: the my my reason for making the film wasn't to seek out those awards my reason
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: for making it was that knowing the world of adventure racing i felt
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: that women-led teams were underrepresented i even feel that
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: the rules around adventure racing where you have to have a mixed race team
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: but you look at any professional team and they're three males
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: and one tokenist yeah yeah and for me that doesn't sit right that doesn't feel good
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: so there was yeah there was a team that was female-led um and you know
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: without spoiling the the film uh we
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: went and shot them at the adventure racing world championships which were down
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: in fieldland a few years ago and uh yeah i went out in the field with them
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: and did parts of the race and had to keep up and film and ask questions
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: and produce you know through the night and it was it was full on it was definitely
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: at the at the limit a little bit um because they're you know they're racing
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: then they're not it's not like doing a
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: doing a commercial shoot with an athlete in the hills where we have a day
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: to capture some footage and talk about things where we can go oh actually can you do
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: that again i just want to you know swap a lens out
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: and do something different like they're racing for for winning they weren't waiting
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: for me for a second so i i had to keep up there was no option um and i remember
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: on one of the big expedition days where i think we were going for like 30
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: 38 hours or something like that i was awake for that was my first experience
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: of hallucinating which was which was wild and we'd got to the top
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: of mount titharoa uh just on the edge of fjordland there
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: and they were going down one side to get in pack rafts so
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: because you know i didn't have a pack raft i was then going backtracking on on
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: the mountain down the ridge down into valley and back to my car
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: on my own and i'll never forget i was walking through this this forest on
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: the way back and it's now like midday or something like say 38 hours awake or more
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: and i kept seeing animal heads like like full-size bear heads just looking at me
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: and i i in the moment felt that they were real
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: but they didn't scare me i wasn't like oh god there's
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: a bear i better run i was like oh look there's a bear oh look
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: at this yeah it's all it's moving it's it looks alive and then you kind of blink
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: and shake your head and you go no that's a tree stump
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: and then you carry on going as a snake oh no no it's a twig and then there was even
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: a point where i could swear blind there were there was
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: a couple there was two people i can pitch them and everything
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: and they were taking photos in the bush and i believed it so much though
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: that i actually called out to them to kind of say hey hey doing how's your day
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: and i got around the corner where did those people go and i was like oh oh shit yeah
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: that was another hallucination
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: so uh yeah i think i guess physiologically you could probably argue
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: that that's getting up towards the the limit of what you can do
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: but you know physically i was still able i was still able to run and climb and
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: operate a camera I was just seeing some animal heads and people taking photos so
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: apart from from greeting the hallucinations and considering that
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: what's The Inner Voice doing it in situations like
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: ah for yeah for that time i was actually thinking about story uh so i was like okay
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: so you know we're day whatever into this expedition this is
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: the footage i've got this is what people have told me i know what i've shot in
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: the interviews before the race right so what's going to happen next okay
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: where do i need to meet them um you know if they're all doing really well
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: okay how do i kind of produce that if they're suffering or someone's injured
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's a different angle you know follow that story so yeah my mind is
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think in those moments you've got to always be thinking about what's
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: about to happen because if you were just to react
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: in that documentary kind of phase you could potentially
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: miss something that you'll maybe need later and you might regret
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: that in the edit. So it's yeah, thinking about the story the whole time.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: so you you're essentially editing while you're while you're shooting
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: while you're you're running while you're getting from point a to to b once you
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: then actually then in this edit suite or in that process what does
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: that look like how how easy do you
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: find that process then in terms of leaving those things out those things
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: that particularly that have come at such a high cost in terms of capturing some
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: of those moments not all of which are going to make it
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: into your final cut what what uh how are you then
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: or is your strength actually out there and long term you i've got to find
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: an editor i hate this part
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: yeah doing a project so that one yeah it was i made that solely
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: for me oh i would you know there was rab was on board with the project but i was the
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: the sole creator of it um at the start for sure um yeah i so i
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: i enjoy i enjoy editing i enjoy crafting story do i enjoy it as much
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: as being out there talking to people and getting their story from them probably not
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: as much i think that's definitely where my strongest skill set is i'm not
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: an editor um through and through so for this project actually lent into some help
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: with a friend of mine joe who's phenomenal with story and
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: i think my my first
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: the final film was i think 26 minutes my first rough cut was like an hour and a half
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: and then i think i went to him with about a 50 minute cut i think
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: and i was like right can you watch this with me and you know tear it apart because
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: the thing with when you've when you've shot something and you've edited it you're
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: so you're so in the story that you you you almost miss things when you watch them
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: because your mind is playing your
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: your mind is playing the bigger picture of what actually happened whereas
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: when you watch it you can actually
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: go well that doesn't make sense because they don't have context but
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: because you filmed it in your mind you knew exactly what happened before that so
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: so it's really really important i think to have that external voice to come in
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: and go na or yep or change or maybe just put this somewhere else
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: so joe was real cool and we we spent a few sessions together just kind
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: of refining things and then i'd go back and do some tweaks and
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: then ultimately yeah we came out with a 26 minute film
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: what what role does does music play in your life and obviously it's really important
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: in filmmaking in particular in terms of conveying emotion or assisting with
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: with emotions and feelings um how has the the soundtrack to your life changed
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: through those previous careers and and what you do now when you're out and
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: about uh is the genres stay there stayed the same
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: or have things uh things changed i love music it's very rare
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: to find me not listening to music um
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: which is interesting because if i take myself for a run and don't listen
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: to music i actually find that it unlocks a lot of creativity in me
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: but conversely i also get so much happiness and joy out of running with music and
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: that i don't want to not listen to it um
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: my you made me think of my spotify like end
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: of year review thing that they send through
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: and has my taste changed i've always been very eclectic
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: with my music pretty much any music goes i probably draw the line
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: at like thrash metal at that end of the spectrum and at the other end probably
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: the really cheesy poppy stuff not so much but anything in between
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: yeah from reggae to rock to 80s yeah drum and bass that was a big part
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: of my childhood uh yeah i'm pretty open to all music uh i love it and
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: and it can create obviously creates emotion for a lot of people and using that
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: appropriately in film is powerful but something i've actually found
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: in my most recent film that just was on at
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: the film festival here was i actually use less music
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: to get to get more emotion out and there may be like a sound bed of like
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: a cello just a one one note cello going through
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: but actually what what i've learned is if you
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: if you use too much music sometimes you can distract away from the story
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: and i think you need to to balance that
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: so you know commercials are very different they sometimes need
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: to have all this hypey music because they need your attention for
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: the 15 30 60 seconds of the advert
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: um and that's usually because the story is very short or there isn't
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: a story they're trying to sell you toothpaste or something but i think for
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: for me forgiving emotion yeah use music or use use sounds
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: but compliment what is happening don't try and cover up what is happening with music
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: to try and fix something
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: and if you're in the car on the way to uh or on the way to work to to go
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: and winch somebody off the side of a mountain compared to um a sunny day down
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: in central otago about to go and film something out in nature
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: where you know it's going to be nice enjoyable shoot is is that the same same music
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: that you're listening to uh on the trip in or is
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: that getting quite different yeah i'm just trying to think did we even listen
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: to music before those it was no that that was too hectic it was
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: uh yeah no but when we were doing the
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: the winchy stuff there was i don't think there was any music i think my mind was
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: so full and that's what i mean it was so dynamic and there was
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: so many moving parts every second that i don't think my mind actually had any space
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: in it for for a little song but yeah now you know i listen to music
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: when i'm i'm driving to somewhere quite often if i'm meeting um
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: either a client for a brand or
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_01: an athlete especially i actually ask them what music they listen to
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: and i get their playlist and i and i'll play that repetitively when i'm planning
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: the shoot or when when i'm going to it or when i'm editing it
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_01: because it's it's their story right so what better way to do that than actually
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_01: to listen to what they will listen to there's no point me listening
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: to something i want to hear it's going to influence the edit and yeah for sure
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Your film Onwards, filming Helene's battle with tongue cancer.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's very intimate in terms of the access and somebody at their most vulnerable.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: What does that sort of project do to you compared to some of the other ones
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: that perhaps have more of a predictable script
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: in terms what you think the outcome is going to be?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: yeah that that i would say is probably the hardest thing i've ever had to film um
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: with helene so
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: yeah she uh and she won't mind me speaking about this um she was very open
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: on her social media when she was diagnosed with cancer and to put this
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: into context this is an incredibly fit woman who's
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: a physio health focused had came fifth in a 100 mile ultra race weeks before and was
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: then told she had tongue cancer
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: and you know and there isn't i mean there's no good cancer
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: but tongue cancer is not good it's it's right in the places you don't want it to be
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: and i remember building up the guts to to approach her because i i was interested
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: that she was sharing so much online
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_01: and i wanted to document the journey but ultimately
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: the conversation was well we're either going to make something
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: that is you know supportive and inspirational for people diagnosed with cancer
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: and their families or we're making a memento for your family and that it was it was
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: the hardest conversation ever
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: because i you know we're sitting there going oh are you are you going to be here at
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: the end of this film like what's going to happen you don't know we had no idea and
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: the legend that she is she agreed to to have me document this and i went to dunedin
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: a couple of times and we filmed her getting radiotherapy and all the the changes
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: in her body that go with that and the pain she was in and the vulnerability and
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: i asked her to film diary videos when i couldn't always be there
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: which actually feature quite heavily in the film because it's just her and her phone
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: and she's completely raw with what's going on and there's a point where because
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: of her pain they have to update her medication which means she cannot drive home
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: so now she's in another town undergoing this therapy and now can't see her family
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: and um yeah that was
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: it was just brutal to make that film like every every time filming with her in
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: the back of my mind i'm thinking is this the last time i'm going
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: to see you um incredibly hard but you know spoiler alert
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: for this one she's she's great she she had surgery she had all
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: the radiation um you know as many cancer survivors will know it's
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's unfortunately something that's still a risk for you in your body that she has
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: to be aware of the rest of her life and
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_01: uh that was but that that again goes back to why you make the films and that was
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: with um the kind of support of the cancer society in new zealand
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: so they have used it for a big fundraising campaign that they did
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: and helena's done public talks now with the film and it's yeah it's done
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: at all it's now it's just on youtube now because i wanted as many people to see it
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: as possible and yeah people are genuinely getting like
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: or feeling supported and and inspired is such an overused word
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: but it's helping people and i think that's that's so great
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know it's it's a tough watch for sure um but in terms of her her courage
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: and her transparency and her rawness and and so
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: as i was thinking well okay this is tough
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: to watch like imagine what it would be like making this no i don't know her at all
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like you're working together so you know this person that you have
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: an entirely different emotional investment in and what's going on um
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: and i'm sure getting those you know those clips and seeing that where she's
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: in underneath and i remember exactly that scene it's like
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: tough yeah and there you know there were there were absolutely times
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: where she's crying in front of camera and i'm trying to hold a camera steady
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_01: because i'm blubbing behind the camera just listening to what she's going through
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: and then you know a few times you just got to put the camera down
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: and just hug it out um because it was yeah it was you know she's talking
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: about not surviving it doesn't really get any bigger than
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: that does it it was it was huge um but again i think i think i was the right person
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: to make that because
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: i can connect on that level i don't i don't know how it would have looked
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_01: if someone else had tried filming
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: that would she have opened up i don't know i don't know but i i'm i'm very grateful
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: that she let me into that that side of her world really am
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: when you're sharing what you've learned about filmmaking what's the thing
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: that you most want people to leave with
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: i don't ever see a finish line in what i do
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_01: and i'm learning every day every day i'm learning
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: from like my my friends my other creative friends around me
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: who do incredible work like they they may say the same they may say the same thing
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: about you know oh that looks crap or imposter syndrome but
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know i take something from from those people and what they do and i i see it as
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: a craft um i had a carpenter friend years ago talk to me
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: and he was really passionate about his craft and he kept using
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: the word craft craft craft and i've i've kind of absorbed that into what i do and
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: that it's not it's not a job per se like what i do i see as a craft because
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: every every kind of job i take on whether it's you know documentary
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: or commercial work or whatever it is is another chance for me to improve myself
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_01: and that's probably built into i guess my bigger personality you know if we go back
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_01: and we were talking about me
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_01: running up hills and wanting to push myself
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: and always do better uh i think it's just transferred into to what i do now
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: so my advice yeah don't don't worry about where you are right now
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: just keep moving in the direction
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_01: that makes you happy would probably be my advice just try and yeah as hard as it is
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_01: in this this world try and cut out the noise you know look at instagram less
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: you mentioned those those different types of shoots so you are you know you
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_00: so you go from the extremes of being solo in the backcountry for
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: for multiple days um humping everything yourself to then being on a on
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: a more commercial shoot with
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: a bigger team around you different uh different things going
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: on how similar those experiences from a creative perspective for you and
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: and do you have a preference is there one side that okay this really brings out
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_00: the best in me or it's you know depends on the day daily form
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: yeah they're different and there's pros and cons to both when when i take on
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: a project that is you know working directly with let's just say a brand and
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: from conception you know to storyboarding to creative ideas to
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: then scheduling shooting post-production everything that that's great
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: because you have a lot more autonomy to work directly with the client
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: and are they happy are you happy you can merge ideas
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: but with that it can be quite isolating
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: as well um versus bigger crew sometimes depending on the job you can be you have
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: to stay in your lane which is you know part of how
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: the industry works your your camera assistant for that day all that week
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: and that's your job your job isn't to go and
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_01: do anything with lighting you don't mess around with scripts
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: and that's just your job so it's great to be around other people and
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_01: and you still get that for me i still get that collaborative buzz you know i i love
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: that and you can still play a part especially if you know the people in the project
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_01: and you can always have your input but if you're on a yeah if you're on
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: a bigger more commercial studio shoot this is the script is
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_01: the script everything has been planned around you so unless you're the director
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_01: kind of stay in your lane and and do what you're being paid to do um
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_01: there the nuance between those two places is something that i experienced last year
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_01: which is which is very cool and there's a shoots with apple tv and they're creating
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_01: a feature film which is going to hopefully come out into this year and
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: that was working in the mountains but i was hired to shoot the behind
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: the scenes documentary of the making of
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: so I was surrounded by people on a you know big Hollywood budget set in the mountains working
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: with people who are like my you know filming idols but yet because i was shooting a behind
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: scenes documentary i had actually all my autonomy so it's actually like
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: the absolute best of both worlds that I could...
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_01: go and talk to you know anyone on set and film them and get you know
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: the shots i wanted to get and landscapes and establishing shots and details
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: and it was yeah one of my favorite jobs to date
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: i get the impression you you frame the work prior to your your film and photography
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: as being things that were delaying you or delayed you to get to the point
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: where you are now as opposed to actually the things that made it all possible
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_00: and actually revealed that without them they wouldn't have perhaps revealed
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_00: who you are do you think that's something that will will come with time
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_00: that you will feel more more comfortable with
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, who knows? Who knows what the future holds.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's funny, isn't it?
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm so certain about what I do now
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_01: more certain than I've ever been in previous careers
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_01: that I guess I'm probably guilty of choosing to forget
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_01: life part one
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: but you're right you know i'm here because of my past and and my past has given me
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: a certain skill set that not many people no one has the same skill set as
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_01: the person next to them but i have a very different skill set to other people
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_01: in my industry for sure and i think leaning into
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_01: that probably will take some time i say it's only a couple of months ago
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_01: that i had this conversation in queenstown with a friend and
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_01: he opened that door in my mind to actually you've got some skills
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_01: and attributes here that you need to thank your past self for rather than put it in
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: a box and put it under the bed
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah i think and and things like this having this conversation about it
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_01: and there'll probably be conversations that spark off the back of this podcast
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: with people which will be really cool and i'm and always open to those chats um
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: to get like deep and philosophical it's it's cool and yeah i think
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah time time will tell but i'm more open to it
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: than i probably ever have been um in my life yeah
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_00: i mean nature and nurture i mean there's obviously always those those elements
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: but i mean it's like you're obviously
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_00: a highly empathetic empathetic empathetic person um whether
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_00: or not you would have those same degrees of empathy without
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_00: what you'd experienced in the police and search and rescue and all those other sorts
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_00: of jobs and things that you've done and experience and seeing people
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_00: at those absolute extremes and situations and dealing with them yourself
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_00: as well that's um as i said i don't think
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: that if you'd gone through i think i don't think you'd be
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_00: the same you might be technically you might have got there faster with some of
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: the technical skills but there's a lot more around that and particularly
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_00: when it comes to story you know it's like in terms of understanding people's story
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_00: or understanding what the real story is here rather than just looking at it from
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_00: a purely technical perspective
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_00: yeah this almost feels like a therapy session i need to pay you off
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_01: for this don't i um yeah i you're right yeah you're 100 right and i i
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_01: as you were talking then i had you know flashes in my mind of
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_01: of places i'd been you know in people's homes
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_01: after you know something terrible's happened and
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, those moments because you are there on your own and
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_01: you're seen as this kind of figure
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_01: of responsibility or authority.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the word authority
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it sounds like a power imbalance
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_01: but you're there to help essentially
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_01: which going back to the car crashes is what
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_01: i did when tits up
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is...
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_01: I went into a reflex
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_01: To help people
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_01: To get them out of the car
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_01: To get him safe
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_01: To make the car was safe
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: and then collapsed and i guess now or you know then forward to the police it's
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_01: the same thing you know it's always a cliche why did you join the police i wanted
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_01: to help people but for me it
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_01: my my joining wasn't necessarily with that focus
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_01: in mind my joining was off the back of the car crash
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: which i guess yeah i guess was helping people but
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_01: the helping people just came organically through the process and connecting
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_01: with people and and here i am now wanting to tell more stories and
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_01: that involves connecting to people
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah yeah yeah you're right yeah like i said therapy
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_00: well i think there's a parallel universe depending on on your frame of reference at
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: the time but there's a parallel universe for you to be in
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_00: that situation post car crash to have gone through that and
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_00: to have gone holy shit these skills would be perfectly transferable to a film set
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: because it's all about immediacy and problem solving and knowing what to do
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: when things go wrong and and and so this would be great and so you could have taken
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_00: that path at that point but i think you'd be you'd be a different filmmaker
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_00: than you are now having taken that uh the path that you've
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_01: you've taken yeah i think it's just awareness
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_01: as well um i mentioned earlier i was having a career conversation this week
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_01: and how you know back in the day it was very like logically driven but
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_01: at no point did i ever consider even though i was you know taking photos and videos
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_01: as a teenager there was no maybe it was my environment but there was no connection
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_01: to oh you can do this for a job and i don't know why
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_01: and i've i've thought about that a lot like why did i not see
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_01: that connection you know okay so my school didn't have we had drama class
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_01: but there was nothing there was no photography there was no filmmaking anything like
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_01: that so was it my environment was it the fact that you know we didn't have
• 1:25:20
  SPEAKER_01: the internet back then so you didn't know about these things outside
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_01: of your your town your world
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then other people knew as a kid they wanted to get into filmmaking
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: and they sought out the film school.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know why it never dawned on me.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was just being an overactive handful of a kid
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_01: and didn't stop to consider it, I don' t know.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there is a lot around that frame of reference
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of what or this sphere of influence that is around you.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was the same as a child.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the movies.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I loved film.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: never even occurred to me that working in film was was a possibility
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_00: that this was actually a job it wasn't
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_00: until i was around like 23 there's others actually there's a film industry here um
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_00: that could have been a potential thing but at
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_00: that point it was like i'd already started i'd gone
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_00: to university i started my career and i understood enough about the industry
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_00: to know okay if you come in
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_00: you're still going to be the person running off to buy cigarettes and coffees for
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: the rest of the crew or what have you got to start at the bottom and at
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_00: that point i was just like oh look i'm not up
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_00: to looking back you know it's just like well i was still pretty young
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe i should have done that um but it's interesting i think
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: because i just there was no relevance or i didn't know any actors or people
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_00: that were in the industry whereas perhaps if i had known that then
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_00: that maybe would have been a different career path
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_01: yeah i agree you know and living in wanaka and i guess i'm surrounded by my friends
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_01: who are in that creative realm as well that it seems obvious
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_01: to me now it's like why you know why the hell wouldn't you
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_01: but um yeah i don't know don't know why it never happened
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_00: You said that almost all of what you do now is equally challenging and exciting,
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_00: which is pretty rare and special.
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Looking back to 17-year-old you,
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_00: is there a piece of advice that you'd give yourself now?
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to him?
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, take your foot off the gas would be the first one.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_01: it's so hard isn't it because again i'm reflecting on where i'm now and and that's
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_01: where i want to be yeah
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_01: and then yeah i don't know that's that's a that's a biggie
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_01: because i wouldn't want to change where i am now but also you know i i i have
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_01: a certain level of uh envy i guess is the word for for people around me
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_01: who have done this the whole life because you know we only live
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_01: a certain age i'm like oh i could have i could have spent the last
• 1:27:59
  SPEAKER_01: last 10 years before this doing doing what i love and then i'd still be doing it
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_01: and you know be be just as good or better you know you can't have those regrets
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_01: or those thoughts like they're kind of fun to spitball but
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: i am who i am and and you can't go back really so i think just make sure
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_01: that what you do from from here onwards is what you want to do and i guess that's
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_01: that helps me with that drive for sure that i didn't get to do what i love for
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_01: as long as i did in my past and um it's like well don't waste
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_01: the future like let's go
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_00: there would potentially though then be a higher risk of being jaded or cynical
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_00: if you'd been in the industry for longer you would have experienced more change in
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_00: the industry and probably not in a positive sense in terms
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_00: of budgets getting smaller fewer projects being produced whatever it is that
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_00: then might be you'd be perhaps not enjoying it not finding it as challenging and
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_00: as awesome as you're finding it now
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there you go.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned earlier about the dual universes side by side
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_01: and what would the other me look like?
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, quite possibly.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_01: The industry has gone...
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Even in the years that I've been doing it has changed a lot
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_01: and obviously AI again is going to change more and more and mehr
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_01: but I built this from the ground up
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_01: like this was just me
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_01: and I've put blood, sweat and tears into this
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_01: to get it to where it is now.
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_01: and i think if i if i'd done that back then i would have still put that same energy
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_01: in but yeah things might have changed because how i've built it now is reflective of
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_01: where we are in time if if that changes then i can evolve with it
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_01: but you know i probably could have evolved before but then i wouldn't have had
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_01: the same experiences with connection to people and decision making that i got
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_01: in my younger years