Latest / Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories / Green Olive Ghosts with Nicole Zwolinski | Ship's Log #50

Transcript

Green Olive Ghosts with Nicole Zwolinski | Ship's Log #50 · Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

0:00
Nicole: Yes, it really reconnected me with my writing roots because I'd been stagnant for a while as a new mom.
0:06
Nicole: It felt like a lot of what was published was very curated and perfect and it was the highlights reel of motherhood, so I felt a little isolated.
0:35
Jeanne: Welcome aboard Project Candor, where ordinary people share their unexpected stories.
0:40
Jeanne: I'm your host, Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
0:44
Jeanne: Every voyage we take here begins with the same way, with a story worth telling.
0:49
Jeanne: So let's set sail.
0:51
Jeanne: Today's guest is Nicole Zwolinski.
0:54
Jeanne: Her debut full-length poetry collection, Motherhead, will be published in the summer of 2026 by Finishing Line Press.
1:02
Jeanne: She was shortlisted for the Central Avenue Poetry Prize, and her work has appeared in literary magazines and anthologies.
1:10
Jeanne: Today she's joining us from here in Northeast Florida.
1:14
Jeanne: Nicole, welcome aboard Project Candor.
1:17
Nicole: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
1:19
Nicole: I'm excited to be here with you.
1:21
Nicole: Great.
1:22
Nicole: So the weather's great outside, and here we are inside recording.
1:27
Nicole: But I am really happy to um have your information out there because oh, I in getting to know you, I just find you to be very fascinating.
1:37
Nicole: So let's get started.
1:38
Nicole: Okay.
1:39
Nicole: Thank you.
1:39
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely.
1:41
Jeanne: Before Motherhead, before the publishing deal, there was a younger version of you who first fell in love with words.
1:48
Jeanne: Take us back there.
1:49
Jeanne: When did writing first become your focus?
1:53
Nicole: I always wanted to be a writer.
1:55
Nicole: As soon as soon as I could read, I even before I could read, I'd memorize stories and would say, Oh, I can read.
2:04
Nicole: So I loved reading and writing and coming up with stories and ideas and um playing them out in my imagination, but also putting them on paper.
2:14
Nicole: But probably around the fifth grade, fifth, sixth grade, I really fell in love with poetry.
2:22
Nicole: And I started writing poems.
2:27
Nicole: It was probably an assignment in class to to write a poem, but I kind of fell in love with that form of being able to use a poem to maybe tell a story or express a moment, um, kind of transport people to a place, a moment in time, and and let them kind of explore that scenario for themselves.
2:51
Jeanne: Does uh your poetry rhyme or does it have a certain format or style that you like more than others?
2:58
Nicole: No, I actually just write really free verse poems.
3:02
Nicole: Um, not not rhyming.
3:05
Nicole: I mean, when I was little, I did probably write a lot of rhyming poems, but by the time um I got to college and started studying it with my professor, we really focused on um writers like Natasha Trethway and Lucille Clifton and um a lot of the beat poets from that time period.
3:29
Nicole: So it's it's more I kind of go with a a free verse style.
3:35
Jeanne: Oh, okay.
3:36
Jeanne: Um do you um have any poem that you can read to us right now?
3:43
Jeanne: Yes.
3:44
Nicole: Uh do you do you want one from the book?
3:48
Jeanne: Or that'd be great if you would love to share it with us.
3:50
Nicole: All right, yes.
3:51
Nicole: Let me uh pull out my manuscript here, which I have printed out.
3:56
Nicole: Um that aside.
4:00
Nicole: All right, so the collection is kind of it kind of follows the arc of a pregnancy.
4:08
Nicole: So it starts with the poems about being pregnant and then um goes into the postpartum period and then um being a mother beyond that.
4:21
Nicole: And it's not like all one particular person, there are different um personas that are in each poem.
4:30
Nicole: But let me so and some of them are funny, but some of them are a little bit um sad.
4:39
Nicole: This one is called Unsung Hero and Motherhood sags like saddlebags strung tightly to her bulging waist and slaps her hips with each step.
4:55
Nicole: It split her down the center twice.
4:58
Nicole: She stretches her skin, even the bruised flesh, to make the road softer for them.
5:03
Nicole: Finger tail sorry, fingertips to toenails.
5:08
Nicole: She reaches to support them across rivers and dreams.
5:12
Nicole: Conception to forever, she knows every detail.
5:16
Nicole: As the time lapse speeds, everything as she as the time lapse speeds, as she grasps at the sand slipping through her hands, and she cracks her heart and lets it spill, knowing she's an unsung hero.
5:31
Nicole: So that one obviously is about, you know, as a mom, you you carry a lot and you also sacrifice a lot for your children, and you want to make everything really wonderful for them.
5:47
Jeanne: And um, I think that's actually feel what you were saying about you know how she was bulging basically, but split twice.
5:58
Jeanne: I that that was I could I was I was going there, but then that was like ouch.
6:04
Jeanne: Yeah, mm-hmm.
6:06
Jeanne: Oh, and that she keeps on because she's trying to bring them to uh to life.
6:15
Nicole: Yes, yeah, and then as like as it goes on, there's um a lot of them that has like a little bit of personality for my children in it.
6:28
Nicole: Um just that in the fact that it's inspired by them.
6:33
Nicole: Um, could I read one more?
6:36
Jeanne: Oh, yeah, that's great.
6:37
Jeanne: So I I'm not a good po uh poetic recritique or whatever.
6:43
Jeanne: That's not even the right word, but I am just enjoying it because um, you know, I do know what you have in your book is very realistic and emotional, even if it's funny.
6:54
Jeanne: I know you're showing people the actual feelings behind motherhood, and I I'm happy to for you to honor us with another one.
7:03
Nicole: Uh this one is called Green Olive Ghosts, and this one was inspired by my children.
7:10
Nicole: Their fear feeding off each other, coated in sweat and salt, eyes full like midnight moons on hot June nights.
7:18
Nicole: They described the ghost that chased them in the garage.
7:21
Nicole: It was a glowing, muted green, an orb shape that hovered at head height.
7:27
Nicole: There was red, the little one proclaimed, and the eldest agreed, eyes meeting to confer and nod.
7:33
Nicole: I slow my breathing like sipping chocolate pudding through a thin straw, and relax my shoulders to induce a calm to embrace the fear.
7:42
Nicole: So the ghost is an olive?
7:45
Nicole: I asked them, and they are confused.
7:47
Nicole: I showed them a photo of a green olive and they giggle, spilling laughs from their lips.
7:52
Nicole: I hope they always think of this moment when they see green olives and fondly recall the green olive ghosts that haunted their childhood home.
8:00
Nicole: When they think when they see green olives, I hope they always remember me.
8:05
Jeanne: Oh, how sweet.
8:07
Jeanne: That's just so lovely.
8:10
Nicole: So of course, you know, I I they were they were actually scared and like, oh, there's a ghost, and so then I I turned into this whole joke of a green olive, which then I thought, well, that's kind of kind of would make a nice poem.
8:23
Nicole: And then now every time I I see green olives, I get all teary-eyed and think, oh my gosh, will they remember this moment?
8:32
Jeanne: And will they think that's that's a good one to pick because there's always gonna be well, I'm not gonna say always, but a lot of times there's big trays of um little pickles and olives?
8:43
Jeanne: They'll think about you a lot.
8:45
Jeanne: I hope so.
8:46
Jeanne: Yeah.
8:47
Jeanne: Oh, that's nice.
8:48
Jeanne: Well, thank you for sharing that.
8:50
Jeanne: You're welcome.
8:50
Jeanne: So you and your family made a big move across the country, pine trees to palms, as you put it.
8:58
Jeanne: So, what was happening in your life when that move happened and what did it open up for you that you didn't expect?
9:05
Nicole: So when we relocated from Minnesota to Florida, uh, it was for my spouse's job, and you know, I was all for embracing the adventure and oh, we're gonna, you know, try this new place on S for size.
9:20
Nicole: Um, at the time our kids were five and two, so I wasn't even writing very much during that time of their life.
9:29
Nicole: Like, I know there are poets and writers out there who write when their children are younger, but that wasn't something that I figured out to make time for it until they got older.
9:40
Nicole: And that happened with our move.
9:42
Nicole: And when it was a couple years after we we settled in here, I started really feeling that itch.
9:50
Nicole: Like I didn't feel like something was missing, and it was clearly the writing.
9:54
Nicole: So I pulled, you know, I started to do writing more frequently and making time for that.
9:59
Nicole: And I started doing research on open mics and uh different poetry events in town, and I found one at Happy Medium Books Cafe.
10:10
Nicole: So I went there and talked to the the store owner and said, you know, oh, I'm a poet.
10:15
Nicole: I would I would love to come by and read sometime.
10:20
Nicole: And she said, Send me, send me all your information in an email, send me your social channels.
10:25
Nicole: And I didn't I didn't have any.
10:27
Nicole: Um, and so I thought, well, what if I create an Instagram for writing?
10:33
Nicole: And I did after I went home from her store, and then I started to follow other writers and connect with writers, and I was following writers from all over the country, but also finding the poetry events that are local.
10:48
Nicole: Um, Jacksonville and St.
10:49
Nicole: Augustine both have very nice literary communities, which was a pleasant surprise for me.
10:56
Nicole: And I've been able to connect with writers in the area and get to know them and do um different events, writing events.
11:06
Nicole: Um in 2024, I got to be a part of Jacks by Jax, which is a big literary festival, and I think it it went on for maybe 11 years, and then they've discontinued it for now.
11:19
Nicole: Um, but it was a really great event down at the big huge library off Laura Street, and I got to read poems and um be with other writers and poets, and it was a really a fun experience.
11:35
Jeanne: Oh, it's sad to hear that you they've shut that down.
11:38
Jeanne: I mean, just as you're telling us about it, they might want to go.
11:42
Nicole: Well, let me tell you about St.
11:43
Nicole: Augustine.
11:44
Nicole: They have an um Ancient City Poet Fest or St.
11:48
Nicole: Augustine Poet Fest.
11:49
Nicole: Um, Ancient City Poets is a group of poets who come together in um St.
11:56
Nicole: Augustine that last Sunday of every month, and they do an open mic event.
12:00
Nicole: And so that's free, uh, open to the public.
12:03
Nicole: And they do that at Waterworks, the building right behind the library in St.
12:07
Nicole: Augustine.
12:08
Nicole: And and it's pretty cool.
12:09
Nicole: Like you don't need to read to go.
12:11
Nicole: You can just go and watch or and listen.
12:15
Nicole: And if you want to read, you can.
12:16
Nicole: And you don't need to be you don't need to be a writer who's been doing this for years.
12:22
Nicole: You can just come up and and write read your poems.
12:25
Nicole: Actually, uh, my son has gone with me and been inspired and has written his own poems and come and and stood up in front of 20 people and and read his poems.
12:33
Nicole: So that's that's it's a pretty cool little community there.
12:38
Nicole: And so they have a festival every April, um, because April's National Poetry Writing Month.
12:45
Nicole: And so they have a nice festival that where they bring in poets from across the country and then feature local poets and they have different workshops.
12:54
Nicole: It's it's pretty fun.
12:56
Nicole: So you could check out the St.
12:57
Nicole: Augustine one next year.
12:59
Jeanne: Yes.
13:00
Jeanne: Well, it sounds like moving here was a good thing then.
13:03
Nicole: Yes, yes, it really uh reconnected me with my writing roots because I kind of went stagnant for a while as a new mom, and that kind of was I mean, I didn't set out to write a book about being a mom, but that was one of the topics that I cut kept coming back to.
13:23
Nicole: Um, I mean, because I was a mom and it's it takes up a lot of time, so it was easy to write about that.
13:30
Nicole: And also um this 2026 is the 10-year anniversary of when I became a mom.
13:38
Nicole: So I think when I first became a mom and I was um looking at different things out there, it felt like a lot of what was published was very curated and perfect, and like it was the highlights real of motherhood.
13:58
Nicole: So I felt a little isolated in what was out there.
14:02
Nicole: Now I think there's so many more writers and poets who are addressing um the hard parts of motherhood too.
14:09
Nicole: I mean, yes, we love being moms and we love it, you know, it's the it's the best thing ever, but it's also very hard.
14:15
Nicole: So being able to write that enables um the readers to find that connection so they don't feel so isolated.
14:25
Nicole: Um, I have in in poetry groups online read some of my motherhood poems, and I've gotten people, they've reached out to me and said, Oh, you know, thank you.
14:35
Nicole: I felt I felt alone.
14:37
Nicole: I thought it was just me that was going through this.
14:39
Nicole: So it's really encouraging when you get to see that your writing is making an impact on people, and they do feel like they're being seen and heard.
14:48
Nicole: So I kind of started pulling all these poems together and realized that I had a book, so then I started submitting it to different um small literary presses, and it got selected.
15:02
Jeanne: So that's wonderful.
15:04
Jeanne: Well, I I know it's a good validation when other people like reach out to you and say, Oh, I'm enjoying this, and I really feel your emotions here.
15:14
Jeanne: Um, but I've never heard of anybody saying they're celebrating their anniversary of being a mother as your child's birthday, right?
15:25
Jeanne: I never heard it that way.
15:28
Nicole: I I just started saying it when this year, and I don't I don't know that I've ever heard anyone else say it too.
15:33
Nicole: And my son kind of just like rolls his eyes and he's like, It's my birthday.
15:37
Nicole: I'm like, I know, but it also like I've been a mom for 10 years and that's amazing.
15:42
Nicole: Like, how cool is that?
15:43
Nicole: Like, it is a special anniversary once you you know become a mother and you take on this, all these responsibilities, and you uh change your life and you evolve and become a whole different person.
15:57
Nicole: Um, yeah, it's special.
16:00
Nicole: So we should celebrate the anniversaries of when we became mothers.
16:04
Jeanne: Yes, yes, and the birthdays.
16:06
Jeanne: Yes, I just think that's very cool.
16:08
Jeanne: You could have a dual celebration.
16:10
Jeanne: Exactly.
16:10
Jeanne: Yeah, yeah.
16:11
Jeanne: And you know, I have to remember what you said earlier on, and I don't know if you it was in your it was in your poem about the olive ghost.
16:20
Jeanne: Um drinking, putting through a straw.
16:26
Jeanne: Yes, mm-hmm.
16:27
Jeanne: That was deep breath to you, right?
16:30
Nicole: Yes, yeah.
16:32
Nicole: That's part of the fun part of um being a poetry is finding or being writing poetry is finding different ways to describe things um in hopes that people will really feel it and it'll resonate and it'll be more impactful than just saying, Oh yeah, it was sipping in slow breath is like, no, we're gonna make this thick, we're gonna make it messy, it's gonna be sweet, it's gonna be pudding.
17:00
Nicole: So yeah.
17:02
Jeanne: Well, see, you just read that and it just stuck with me.
17:05
Jeanne: A few of the things that you read stuck with me, but that one was funny too, because you know, it's like getting a milkshake at the at some place where you can't drink it through the straw, you gotta get a spoon out.
17:16
Jeanne: Yeah.
17:17
Jeanne: But I'll remember that next time I need to take a deep breath.
17:20
Jeanne: Okay, putting through a straw.
17:22
Jeanne: Yes, deep breath.
17:24
Jeanne: I love it.
17:26
Jeanne: Uh you said rejection is monotonous and solitary, and that line carries a lot of weight.
17:33
Jeanne: So, what did the years of quiet rejection actually feel like and what kept you sending the next poem out anyway?
17:39
Jeanne: Especially knowing now that your book is out to be published.
17:43
Nicole: Yeah.
17:44
Nicole: Uh well, it's hard because it as a writer you're constantly getting rejections, even when you have the wins.
17:52
Nicole: Um, I started in 2024, I started tracking them in a little list in my notepad because a lot of times it feels so good when something's published and you share it, you can share it out and tell people about it.
18:06
Nicole: But then that moment feels so fleeting, like once it's gone, like you forget.
18:11
Nicole: So I've started to keep a list of all the the writing wins, I call them.
18:17
Nicole: Um, like one thing that I forget happened, which was so cool, is I participated in the Tupelo Press um 3030 project.
18:28
Nicole: So they have poets who dedicate 30 days they for a month, they're like, We're gonna write poems, it's gonna live on our website, there'll be drafts, and then um after 30 days they'll go away.
18:41
Nicole: But the poets will raise money for this small literary press.
18:44
Nicole: And one of my poems was selected for an anthology.
18:49
Nicole: Like someone just read it on the website as a part of the 3030 project, and they're like, Oh, we would love this poem to be published in our anthology.
18:57
Nicole: And that's like a super amazing thing to have your work sought out by someone else and not like putting it out on submission, which I do that um all the time anyway, too.
19:08
Nicole: But um, a lot of the times when you're when you're doing the submissions, you um have to wait for a long time and then you often are getting rejections, but you just have to keep going back to the drawing board, and you know, maybe it means revising the poem, or maybe it just means the poem wasn't a good fit for that literary magazine, which happens a lot.
19:29
Nicole: Like lately, I've been noticing like I'll I'll send out a certain packet of poems, maybe like three to five poems, depending on what they're looking for.
19:37
Nicole: And I um oftentimes I'll get feedback where they're like, Oh, we really liked this poem, but it wasn't the right fit for us.
19:45
Nicole: And then a few submissions later, that one gets picked up for publication by another um magazine.
19:53
Nicole: So it's uh it's a lot of persistence and a lot of like you just can't give up, even though it's hard.
20:02
Nicole: And I do have text text strings with different writer friends, and you know, we all lament, oh, got another rejection today, and it's a bummer, but you know, we just we keep on doing it because we love it.
20:16
Nicole: And my first my first publication in a literary magazine in my adult life was with a um a press over in Great Britain, and they published um one of my poems in their literary magazine, and that was like a really cool thing to be able to say, Oh hey, I am an internationally published poet.
20:42
Nicole: Um, but like all of these things they happen and then it's kind of like it's contained and and you forget about it.
20:51
Nicole: So if there are any writers out there, I suggest keeping a list of all your publications or accomplishments, whether it was like you were highlighted on a podcast or in a news article, keep a list of that just to go back to when you're feeling that rejection because it is it is monotonous and you're all alone feeling like, oh, I'm I'm rejected again.
21:16
Nicole: Because again, if you're following people online, everyone's talking about the good stuff.
21:20
Nicole: So they're all like shouting from the rooftops all their accomplishments, but they don't oftentimes say, but I was rejected a hundred times first before this got accepted.
21:32
Nicole: So it's good to keep that um keep those wins as something to anchor you to your focus.
21:41
Jeanne: Right, that's true.
21:42
Jeanne: Rejection is tough, but I you know, in sales channels, and I've never been a salesperson, but I've taken some sales courses, um, and they always say the rejection is one step closer to the acceptance.
21:56
Jeanne: And sometimes it's like I have To go a hundred before I get the one.
22:02
Jeanne: Yes.
22:03
Jeanne: Yes.
22:04
Jeanne: That's true.
22:05
Jeanne: Well, that's pretty good because you're a working mom of two who somehow still finds the desire to put pen to paper and send in submissions and take the rejections.
22:18
Jeanne: What did motherhood teach you about writing that you couldn't have learned any other way?
22:23
Jeanne: And what did writing teach you back as about being a mother?
22:28
Nicole: Well, I, you know, I always thought I was a really good multitasker, but until I became a mom, I don't I don't really know I didn't know what multitasking was.
22:38
Nicole: But um it did really teach me how well for one, I was like, okay, I'm a mom.
22:47
Nicole: I can't I can't just keep putting this off for like I would let let it slide to the back burner.
22:53
Nicole: Like I've always wanted to be a writer.
22:55
Nicole: And I did submit places and and when I was younger, it was harder because it was physically printing it out and mailing it somewhere versus now submitting through um online platforms or emails.
23:08
Nicole: So that makes it a little more streamlined for submissions.
23:12
Nicole: But with um without that, like if you just keep putting it on the back burner and not doing it, then you're you're never gonna have the perfect time, the perfect setting.
23:28
Nicole: Like, oh yes, it would be great to sit down in front of my laptop for an hour and just write.
23:34
Nicole: But instead, I'm doing it in the um in between, like whenever I have a moment.
23:44
Nicole: If it's like, oh, I'm uh walking, I need to text myself this to remember, or jot it down in my notes, or if I'm driving, I will often text it to myself so I can yeah, and sometimes it doesn't translate well, and then I I lose what I was going to say.
24:01
Nicole: Um but I've just discovered that I have to carve out the time in order to keep it keep keep keep it up, keep it going.
24:13
Nicole: And with my kids, um, when they started doing activities, they're doing um certain activities in a gym, and that enabled me to sit down while they're in their class and I could sit and write at that time.
24:26
Nicole: And um, is it ideal to work in a loud gym and and try and write?
24:31
Nicole: No, but that's the time that I have, so I've learned how to use it and make it work for me.
24:39
Jeanne: Well, as long as you're not having to monitor what they're doing in the gym, right?
24:43
Jeanne: It's called orange earbuds.
24:47
Nicole: Yeah.
24:48
Jeanne: The squishy marshmallow thing.
24:50
Jeanne: Oh, yeah.
24:50
Jeanne: Yeah.
24:51
Jeanne: Yeah.
24:52
Jeanne: So that sounds true, but it feels like the way you're talking about it, that you know, you have to write.
24:59
Jeanne: It's like your it's essential to you, like your blood or your heartbeat.
25:03
Jeanne: Is that the way you feel?
25:05
Nicole: Absolutely.
25:06
Nicole: Like I feel weird.
25:07
Nicole: If I am not, if I'm not writing, like I feel off.
25:10
Nicole: It's kind of like if you um exercise every day and then you skip two weeks or something, and then you feel it, your body is like, hmm, this doesn't feel right, you know, and then it's it's hard to get back into it.
25:24
Nicole: So having like a consistent practice, and even if it's not necessarily writing every day, but on this day I'm gonna submit something, or this day I'm gonna email a pitch out, um, that kind of helps to keep keep on track and just do a little bit every day, and eventually you'll have something to to speak of.
25:47
Jeanne: Nice.
25:48
Jeanne: Um, motherhead, the book, and the larger project is built on the idea that mothers need to be seen and heard.
25:55
Jeanne: And I know you talked about it, and I appreciate the um actual readings that you gave us.
26:00
Jeanne: What's the story behind that title?
26:03
Jeanne: It's very unusual.
26:04
Jeanne: And what are mothers carrying that the rest of the world keeps missing?
26:08
Nicole: Yes, I uh love this question because this one is actually it comes from a poem title that's um it's like I should have it right handy here.
26:22
Nicole: Um motherhood plus mom brain plus brain frog fog equals motherhead.
26:30
Nicole: Um, and just sort of talks about like the whole you're juggling all these things as a mom, and then you're also addressing the hormonal components of it.
26:43
Nicole: Like your body is completely changed, and you're trying to get back into a um, it's not necessarily what your old self was, but you're trying to get back into a place where you feel like a normal human being again, and then and then like now I'm starting to go into the the perimenopause, so that brain fog is coming back, and like I've said to my kids, throw your socks in the dishwasher and they crack up and think it's so funny.
27:12
Nicole: But it it's like you have all these things that you're dealing with externally, and then mentally you are you know making sure that the birthday parties get um RSVP'd too, that you get presents for the birthday parties, that you are get the doctor's appointment scheduled, and um you know, you just do you're doing all the things and um it's it's a lot as a mother.
27:42
Nicole: And I think that we don't often appreciate what mothers go through and everything that they are experiencing, um, especially like from the physical and hormonal sides of it.
27:58
Nicole: We're just like, yep, have a baby, okay.
28:00
Nicole: Now if you're going back to work, go back to work.
28:03
Nicole: And you know, if if not, then yay, you had a baby.
28:09
Nicole: We don't really make space for the experience of how it physically impacts you and and emotionally and mentally too.
28:19
Jeanne: Very true.
28:19
Jeanne: And the cover of your book, though, kind of a great illustration of what you're talking about.
28:25
Jeanne: Can you hold that back up or hold it up?
28:28
Nicole: Yes, it should be here, handy here, where it did I what else?
28:36
Nicole: Or it fell off my desk.
28:38
Nicole: Just a moment here.
28:39
Nicole: All right, so this artwork was made by a local Jacksonville artist, so I'm very thrilled to um have her collaboration here.
28:48
Nicole: But it's uh a picture of a mom holding her baby, and then she has all these gorgeous flowers blooming off her head.
28:57
Nicole: And so there's a lot of different ways to to look at that um and interpret it, but I like to think of it as a crown of all the responsibilities that you know this woman is is carrying now that she's become a mother, she has uh this beautiful blooming floral crown.
29:22
Jeanne: Very nice.
29:23
Jeanne: And you communicated that to the artist, and that was her interpretation, or did you give them that?
29:30
Nicole: I said I have a book of poems, and this I don't even know if I had the title at the time.
29:39
Nicole: No, I did have the title, yes.
29:41
Nicole: I had the title motherhead, and I explained the concept to her, and she came up with this all on her own.
29:46
Nicole: So I I love that.
29:48
Nicole: Like it's art begetting art.
29:50
Nicole: Like I told her this is my what the poems are about, and this is you know the theme, and she came up with, well, what do you think of this mother?
29:59
Nicole: And she's holding her baby, and then all these flowers on her head, and I I said yes, and then she drafted it up and like, does this look good?
30:07
Nicole: I'm like, Yes, and it just it was very perfect, I think.
30:12
Jeanne: Now two visions coming together, so yeah, yeah.
30:15
Jeanne: Do you have that um framed on your wall or anything?
30:19
Jeanne: Because that's very gorgeous.
30:20
Nicole: Not yet, but I will.
30:22
Nicole: Um, I mean, I do have the it's hard to see from afar, but that's a a poster for it with a QR code.
30:28
Nicole: I don't know if anyone can scan it.
30:30
Nicole: Um, but yeah, the cover is is a little more lavender and blues pulled out to the from the design and has the wording around it.
30:42
Nicole: So yes, I definitely will be framing it.
30:45
Jeanne: Yeah, it's very pretty.
30:47
Jeanne: Well, we're getting close to our next game, but I have one more question.
30:51
Jeanne: Yeah.
30:52
Jeanne: If a mother is listening to this episode right now um and's tired, unseen, telling herself she doesn't have time for the thing she loves, what's the one thing you want her to hear?
31:04
Nicole: You will get back to the or not, I guess I shouldn't say you won't, you'll get back because I don't I think you're completely unchanged once you become a mother, but you will find yourself and you will feel human again.
31:18
Nicole: It will you'll make your way to a spot where you are feeling strong and um you know where what you want to how you want to carve your your path forward.
31:35
Nicole: Um because being a mom changes you, but it it's like it's like superpowers.
31:42
Nicole: You become an enhanced evolution of yourself now.
31:47
Nicole: Um but yeah, during the thick of it, during the first couple months, years postpartum, it can be pretty rough, but it gets better.
31:59
Jeanne: So they'll say you'll say they'll normalize a little bit, but it might not be the normal they had before, but it's right their new normal and it'll feel good.
32:09
Jeanne: Yes, yeah, yeah, you'll get to a new normal.
32:12
Jeanne: Yeah, yeah.
32:13
Jeanne: It's hard to get to a new normal in anything when you have major changes.
32:17
Jeanne: But I learned that in project management, they always talk about it as, and this sounds a little strange when you think about it in the way uh you're you have a child, but they call it forming, uh, because your team is forming, then you're storming.
32:31
Jeanne: I guess that's when you're having the baby.
32:34
Jeanne: Uh and then norming, and that's when things get normal, and they have a few other steps after that.
32:39
Jeanne: But um you always have to go through that.
32:42
Jeanne: Yeah.
32:43
Jeanne: So I am so excited you were here.
32:48
Jeanne: This is so good, and I I feel like uh you honored us with reading your poetry, so we're gonna remember that for some time.
32:54
Jeanne: I have a hard time saying the word poem because my sister jokes about me adding a third syllable in there, but it's a southern accent.
33:03
Jeanne: Yeah, no, poem.
33:05
Jeanne: I don't know.
33:06
Jeanne: I try to try, I try to I was trying to do it right and then I choked.
33:12
Nicole: Just say I've heard it both ways.
33:14
Nicole: That's what that's what we say every time.
33:17
Jeanne: I've heard it both ways.
33:18
Jeanne: Right.
33:18
Jeanne: Well, to now it's time for us to play our signature game.
33:23
Jeanne: Um, and it's called Two Truths and a Lie.
33:26
Jeanne: And maybe it's not a lie, maybe it's just a exaggerated truth or twisted truth, but we like to find out even more deeply personal things about you.
33:35
Jeanne: So the way the game is played is the guest has given me three headlines about her life and herself, and I'm gonna read those off to you.
33:44
Jeanne: I get to guess which one I think is a lie, and then you can play along and guess too, but then our guest will walk us through.
33:52
Jeanne: Nicole will take us through each of these stories and then won't reveal the lie until the end.
33:58
Jeanne: Now, the fun part about this is that um we've gotten to know her a little bit, and so maybe you can guess these stories.
34:08
Jeanne: Um, but I'm kind of questioning myself right now.
34:12
Jeanne: This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts.
34:18
Jeanne: Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different.
34:28
Jeanne: Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder.
34:39
Jeanne: You don't need permission to change your story.
34:42
Jeanne: And now as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech.
34:47
Jeanne: Simple socket print, the lightweight blazing fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue.
34:56
Jeanne: With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print sequence, and automatic base 64 decoding all without needing print driver installed.
35:07
Jeanne: If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, SimpleSocket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work.
35:14
Jeanne: Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print.
35:19
Jeanne: Thank you to our sponsors.
35:22
Jeanne: Um, here are her headlines.
35:26
Jeanne: As an aspiring actress, Nicole lost a role for being too tall to play Danny DeVito's daughter, then landed a role in the Mighty Ducks 2.
35:36
Jeanne: Number two headline is after seeing the Nutcracker, Nicole never picked up her violin again.
35:43
Jeanne: And it's such beautiful music.
35:46
Jeanne: Um number three, Nicole was the least athletic kid in her family, but became an endurance racer anyway, and even ran with a concussion.
35:57
Jeanne: So, Nicole, I'm gonna guess that um that um number three is a lie.
36:05
Jeanne: I don't know why, but um I didn't know I'm not getting the like athletic vibe from you after all the stuff you talked about, but I don't know, I could be shocked.
36:14
Jeanne: So take us through each of those stories and don't reveal the truth till the end.
36:18
Nicole: Okay.
36:19
Nicole: Yeah.
36:20
Nicole: Um, in addition to always wanting to be a writer, I always wanted to act too.
36:26
Nicole: And so when I was young, my mom took me to some casting calls, and I was um super offended when the casting director said I was too tall to play Danny DeVito's daughter.
36:42
Nicole: Um and that was I was, you know, thinking, well, what if my mother was really tall?
36:49
Nicole: Um so I had all these scenarios playing out in my head.
36:54
Nicole: Um, but that didn't work out for me.
36:56
Nicole: But then um that was when I was oh gosh, nine or ten, maybe three or four years later, um, I got to be in Mighty Ducks 2, um watching hockey games in the ice rink.
37:13
Nicole: So that was really fun.
37:14
Nicole: We got to see Emilio Esteves and um Joshua Jackson and all the the Mighty Ducks there.
37:21
Nicole: And um, I also went on to do like theater and um in college and then in community theater for a bit after.
37:35
Nicole: Um but that was like those were my my big screen moments there, Mighty Dad's two and almost playing Danny DeVito's daughter.
37:46
Jeanne: It sounds like fun, but you do know who Danny DeVito is.
37:50
Nicole: Oh yes, correct.
37:51
Jeanne: Okay, and you do know how fun.
37:52
Nicole: Absolutely know.
37:53
Nicole: So were you tall as a child?
37:57
Nicole: Oh yeah.
37:57
Nicole: I was one of the tallest kids in my class.
38:00
Nicole: I was yeah, pretty tall.
38:04
Jeanne: Yeah, I have seen movies where there's really, really tall girls and short parents.
38:09
Nicole: It can happen.
38:10
Jeanne: Yes, so I don't know, but maybe maybe it wasn't meant to be.
38:17
Jeanne: It just wasn't meant to be.
38:19
Nicole: But I do think there's a poem that's coming out about this now, later in life.
38:23
Jeanne: I'm gonna write a poem about that sounds pretty good.
38:29
Jeanne: Yeah, he will call me, right?
38:32
Jeanne: He'll read it to me.
38:33
Nicole: Yes, absolutely.
38:34
Jeanne: Okay, what about number two?
38:37
Nicole: Oh, yeah, so I was um, in addition to wanting to be a writer and an actor, I'm like, I'm gonna be a classical violinist.
38:45
Nicole: So I convinced my parents to get me violin lessons, and they would drive me uh downtown Minneapolis for lessons, and I uh really loved it.
38:57
Nicole: And then we went to see the orchestra playing um at the Nutcracker, and then I was like, oh wait, no, I mean I want to do ballet.
39:07
Nicole: And so then I got them to enroll me in ballet.
39:11
Nicole: Um, they made me finish that year of playing violin, but once I I was enrolled in ballet, I loved that.
39:20
Nicole: And I suppose that was partly, you know, the acting part, like with ballet.
39:25
Nicole: I was able to do that with ballet and use my body to tell a story through dance.
39:30
Jeanne: Um, that's nice.
39:31
Jeanne: Yeah, well, you could have done that with a violin too.
39:33
Jeanne: Music is very that's true, um, interpretive, and you know, it does cause people to um feel emotions and especially the nutcracker, that's a beautiful piece of um music.
39:47
Nicole: But you get to wear a cool tutu when you're ballerina, so that was yeah, I mean, that was pretty hard to pass up.
39:52
Nicole: The beautiful flowy tutis.
39:55
Jeanne: What were some of the roles you did as a ballet um dancer?
40:01
Nicole: Like in the nutcracker, I've played a parent in the party scene.
40:05
Nicole: Um, I've done the snowflake, um not a snow queen, but there was one um choreography that was snow princesses, so we like let out the snowflakes, so I got to do that, and then Waltz of the Flowers, um, and a couple other disvertisements.
40:26
Nicole: And in uh one of my favorite ballets that I ever did was Cinderella, and um I had performed with the Continental Ballet Company, and they're based out of Bloomington, Minnesota, and the director uh set her own um there's there's Cinderella music, but she selected her own music by a different composer and set the whole ballet, and she was actually awarded um from the Kennedy Center for the Art, she was awarded um recognition for her work on developing the ballet, and that was a really beautiful.
41:02
Nicole: I did love that one.
41:04
Jeanne: It was pretty cool.
41:06
Jeanne: That's um that's a lot of roles.
41:09
Jeanne: I mean, you've you spent a lot of time doing that.
41:11
Jeanne: When did you stop?
41:12
Nicole: When I was 25, that was when I I finally uh retired.
41:17
Nicole: Um, I was trying to work full time while also dancing, and all the other dancers were like dancing full time and then working in the the off hours and I needed health insurance and couldn't couldn't do the the swapping of that, so I decided, you know, I I would I would stop and then of course I was like and then I'll focus on my writing.
41:46
Jeanne: Okay.
41:46
Jeanne: Were you married at the time?
41:49
Jeanne: No.
41:50
Jeanne: Okay.
41:50
Jeanne: So yeah, didn't pick up writing again until you moved to Florida, so I I did like a little bit.
41:59
Nicole: Right, I know.
41:59
Nicole: Florida, thank you for bringing out bringing out my words.
42:02
Nicole: I did write a little bit, but it was um not like it wasn't as consistent as now.
42:11
Nicole: Like my my first piece that got published as an adult, that was in my 30s, um, before I had kids and before I was married.
42:19
Nicole: But again, it wasn't like I I have a a more consistent routine now because I know what it's like when I get wrapped up in life and I don't write and how off I feel.
42:30
Jeanne: So Okay.
42:31
Jeanne: Yeah.
42:32
Jeanne: All right, the last one, the athletic kid.
42:35
Jeanne: Mm-hmm.
42:36
Jeanne: And you were an endurance runner.
42:38
Jeanne: All right, this is the one I guess.
42:40
Jeanne: So tell us about it.
42:42
Nicole: Well, when I quit ballet, then I needed a way to stay in shape.
42:47
Nicole: And um initially I was just doing like yoga and Pilates in my um in my little apartment.
42:57
Nicole: And one day I decided to take up running.
43:01
Nicole: I mean, my dad was a runner, so it it kind of made sense, but I'm like, I'm gonna try running, and I did.
43:07
Nicole: And so then I tried uh I I trained and did a 5K.
43:13
Nicole: And once I did a 5K, my dad's like, oh, well now your next race should be a a triathlon.
43:19
Nicole: And I didn't sign up for a a full triathlon because that's that's very intense, but I did do a sprint triathlon.
43:27
Nicole: So it was like a quarter mile swim, 17 mile bike ride, and a two and a half mile run at the end.
43:37
Nicole: And I did that sprint triathlon several times, and then another um I did I think I did another couple triathlons and maybe they were a little bit longer, but they were still on the sprint series.
43:50
Nicole: But one of the times when I I was doing my triathlon, I you know, you you train for so long and so excited to do it, and then I had like you go and set up stuff the night.
44:06
Nicole: No, I guess we we were helping them set up.
44:08
Nicole: Like we got there early and we were helping the race people set up.
44:11
Nicole: And I forgot that the the trunk of the car had a bike rack on it.
44:16
Nicole: And I slammed the trunk down and then it like the bike rack hit my eye.
44:23
Nicole: Mm-hmm.
44:24
Nicole: Knocked me like a little out.
44:27
Nicole: I had a big huge black eye.
44:29
Nicole: Not immediately, but like by the next day it was definitely black.
44:33
Nicole: And so I probably had a minor concussion, but I had trained so hard I still did the race.
44:39
Jeanne: Oh wow.
44:40
Jeanne: Wow, that's a dedication.
44:41
Jeanne: Well, I gotta go back to this dad thing you say.
44:44
Nicole: Oh yeah.
44:45
Jeanne: So your dad said, okay, 5K.
44:47
Jeanne: What's 5k anyway?
44:48
Jeanne: Is that like two and a half miles or three miles?
44:51
Nicole: 3.1 miles.
44:52
Nicole: Okay.
44:53
Nicole: Yeah.
44:53
Nicole: Yeah.
44:54
Jeanne: So three.
44:54
Jeanne: So he goes at absolutely from zero to a hundred.
44:59
Jeanne: He goes like, okay, the next step is a triathlon.
45:02
Jeanne: What the heck happened to 10K?
45:05
Jeanne: Um, maybe a marathon or whatever.
45:08
Nicole: I know.
45:09
Nicole: I don't I don't know.
45:10
Nicole: He like I was uh I'm the oldest of five and um I'm not very I wasn't very athletic and probably of all of the kids he he never pictured that I would do that.
45:23
Nicole: And so then and and once I did the 5K, then I was like, okay, I will challenge myself and do this.
45:30
Nicole: And um and I did, and now I mean I can't run anymore, it hurts my knee, but I did run for maybe 12-15 years, and it was fun.
45:42
Jeanne: Wow, and you were dorky because you hit yourself with the trunk, so that kind of fits the the fact that you were probably at least athletic.
45:52
Jeanne: At least not least athletic, least coordinated.
45:56
Jeanne: Yes, yep.
45:58
Jeanne: But that would be something I would do.
45:59
Jeanne: Okay, so what is the non-truth?
46:05
Nicole: The non-truth is I never played the violin.
46:09
Nicole: Oh really?
46:11
Nicole: Yeah, yes.
46:12
Nicole: I wanted to.
46:13
Nicole: Um, and my parents, I remember they took me downtown to like look into music lessons, but I think it was too much money and or like a violin was very expensive, and they just it wasn't in the budget at the time.
46:29
Nicole: And yeah, I never I never learned an instrument, but I did do ballet, I did race, I did act.
46:39
Jeanne: Right, okay.
46:40
Jeanne: Well, that was just a twisted truth that was in the big lie, but that's well that's true.
46:45
Nicole: I'm really bad at lying.
46:47
Nicole: I can't you'd be surprised.
46:50
Jeanne: A lot of people are bad at lying.
46:52
Jeanne: Um but you did the you did the triathlon.
46:59
Nicole: Yeah, no, yes, I know.
47:01
Nicole: I think I think it was I know I'm shocked too.
47:04
Nicole: Um, and now and swimming wasn't my favorite part of the triathlon, but now that I can't run, swimming has become my my favorite thing.
47:12
Nicole: I love swimming laps, and um, yeah, that's one of my favorite exercises now.
47:18
Nicole: And it was it was really hard because I just want to I wanted to run.
47:22
Nicole: Like I loved running once I trained for it.
47:26
Nicole: Um, but now my knee can't handle it anymore.
47:30
Jeanne: Oh well, this was fun, Nicole.
47:33
Jeanne: I liked your stories a lot, and then I know people have enjoyed listening to you and want to get your book.
47:39
Jeanne: So let me um give them contact information.
47:42
Jeanne: Yes.
47:43
Jeanne: You also gave me a great quote.
47:45
Jeanne: Um, if you want to talk about that.
47:47
Nicole: Oh, the rejection is monotonous, acceptance is to be sung in the streets and infinitely echoed.
47:53
Nicole: So I am definitely um infinitely echoing my book.
47:59
Nicole: Please buy my book.
48:00
Nicole: Um I um like obviously since I was a little kid, I wanted to to write, and you know, I was going to be on Oprah's book club by age 25, and you know, I've passed Oprah's book club or past 25.
48:17
Nicole: Oprah can still call me.
48:19
Nicole: Um, but yeah, right now it's it's it's down the line, but I'm getting it done.
48:24
Nicole: I'm writing my book and it's gonna be out there, and I'm so excited for um people to have it in their hands and to read it, and so you can pre-order it.
48:32
Nicole: And if you pre-ordered it from my publisher, which is the only place you can pre-order it, um they have a a discounted rate that or it's not really discounted rate, they're selling it at their publisher's rate.
48:45
Nicole: After it's published, it'll go to the distributor and then the price will go up.
48:50
Nicole: But if you um pre-order, that helps establish my royalty rate.
48:55
Nicole: So um helps me determine how much money I will get paid for my book, and not that I'm doing it for the money, but obviously, since it's my book, I would like to make the most money that I can on it.
49:06
Nicole: Um and I have pre-order goodies for anyone who purchases the book in advance.
49:16
Nicole: Um goodies include like this card, um, a bookmark, and I also have stickers.
49:27
Nicole: So these will be mailed to people while supplies last.
49:30
Nicole: This is um mothers should feel seen and heard.
49:35
Nicole: It's the motherhood manifesto.
49:38
Nicole: I have that in opening my book, and then this sticker with the cover art.
49:43
Nicole: So lots of goodies that are available if you pre-order.
49:47
Nicole: Send me your receipt to the motherhoodproject@gmail.com and I will email or not email you, I will physically mail you some fun things in the mail.
49:58
Jeanne: Yeah, that would be cool.
50:00
Jeanne: When are we gonna get to being able to email stuff?
50:02
Jeanne: That's actually physical.
50:04
Jeanne: It's got to be coming according to Elon Musk.
50:08
Nicole: Download, yes.
50:09
Jeanne: Download your download an actual new shirt.
50:12
Jeanne: Yes.
50:12
Jeanne: Yes, yes.
50:13
Jeanne: Oh, and that might be Star Trek replicator, but oh, I go different places in my head.
50:19
Jeanne: Well, Nicole, I thank you so much for being on again.
50:24
Jeanne: And for those listening, I hope you'll turn in next week or turn tune in next week um to catch another great guest.
50:32
Jeanne: Uh and until then, this is Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected, and I wish you all smooth sailing.
50:40
Jeanne: Bye.
50:41
Jeanne: Thank you so much.
50:42
Jeanne: Bye.
50:43
Jeanne: Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real.
50:51
Jeanne: If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew.
50:56
Jeanne: Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck.
51:00
Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
51:04
Jeanne: See you on the next voyage.