Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #36: What 20 Years of LSD Revealed About Suffering, Healing & the Future of Humanity — Chris Bache

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#36: What 20 Years of LSD Revealed About Suffering, Healing & the Future of Humanity — Chris Bache · Love Conquers Fear

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  Of course, we've had relationships with thousands and
• 0:03
  thousands of people, and we've been many thousands of people.
• 0:06
  We've been everything in history.
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  And when the soul awakens in us, it opens up this breath of
• 0:12
  compassion and a breath of understanding.
• 0:15
  It is truly the birth of oneness within the human species, the
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  future human. It's not a sci-fi imagination.
• 0:22
  We just have to look at our history with understanding.
• 0:25
  We've been building this Organism and there is a
• 0:27
  summation point coming. In order to survive our creative
• 0:31
  potential, which is emerging at this time in history, we need to
• 0:35
  grow up. And to grow up it means sort of
• 0:38
  claiming our entire being and we can see signs of the soul
• 0:43
  beginning to emerge all over the place.
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  Once you know what you're looking for, once you're looking
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  to see it. Welcome back, everybody to the
• 0:53
  Love Conquers Fear podcast. I want to tell you about an
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  experience I just had for the first time in my life.
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  I'm always trying to, you know, push myself and do new things.
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  And I met a woman last year that that I knew from the Ted
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  conference, she actually had attended one of the dinners that
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  I hosted there. I host an annual dinner there.
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  And her name is Alisa Cohen. And we were at the Renaissance
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  Weekend for the first time in my life.
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  It's it was in Santa Barbara, but they do these all over the
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  US. If you ever get an invitation to
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  Renaissance Weekend, I highly recommend it.
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  It's kind of like an unconference.
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  There's so many amazing people that attend.
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  And I learned so much about space and, you know, leadership
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  and so many other great topics and, and just so many experts
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  there. And that's where I met Sachin
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  Raja, who you all know was on the podcast and real spiritual
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  leader, a real, real shaman in many ways.
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  And that was such a great episode.
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  Anyways, Elisa and I reconnected there and she said, you know, I
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  really think you would like this meditation retreat that I go to
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  at the beginning of every year. And you know, I felt my energy
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  like immediately light up like I knew it was a yes with with very
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  little detail. She told me a little bit about
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  it and I just got back from attending that.
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  And it was held at 1440 Multiversity, which is in Scotts
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  Valley, CA, about 45 minutes from San Jose.
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  And it's led by John and Will Cabot Zen.
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  And John is in his 80s now. It's just full of life, though
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  you'd, you'd never know his age. He actually agreed at the, at
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  the meditation retreat to be on Love Conquers Fear.
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  So I'm really going to enjoy recording that with him in the
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  future. And you know, I, I, I, I walked
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  in and I saw Joe Greenstein and it was just a beautiful
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  synchronicity because Joe and I went toward and together.
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  He actually helped me get some of my initial businesses off the
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  ground. And then he went on to be a
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  great entrepreneur and ultimately start a company
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  called Flixster, which acquired Rotten Tomatoes and really
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  became known mostly for Rotten Tomatoes, which really is my go
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  to for movie reviews at this point.
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  I always compare both the critic and the audience reviews and see
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  see how those sync, really read the details.
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  And of course, I care a lot about reviews given my
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  background at Bizarre Voice, you know, as an entrepreneur myself
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  and Joe and I haven't seen each other for so long and, you know,
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  gave each other big hugs and it was just so great to reconnect
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  with him. And this is, this is a retreat
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  that he goes to annually. And he said, you know, it's
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  going to be really weird now that we're here because this is
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  mostly silent. And in prior years, what I found
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  out is that it, it had been mostly silent.
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  But this year, what John and his son Will decided to do is make
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  it all silent. And so it was around 4 days and
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  it was a completely silent retreat, including, you know,
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  when you're going to dinner with people, you're sitting in
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  silence and it sounds, you know, blissful to, to you listening to
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  this. And I, I can understand that.
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  And, but I'll, I'll tell you, it's actually really
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  challenging. And you know, John, at the end
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  of it, as we were checking out, he's like, you know, you're
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  going to tell people about this, who was talking, addressing us
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  all there, about 75 people there.
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  And you're going to say, you know, we meditated, you know,
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  sitting, then we meditated walking, then we had, you know,
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  a meal and then we meditated some more.
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  And people are always think that sounds, that sounds absolutely
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  amazing. But the reality is that's
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  actually really challenging. It's really challenging to both
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  be in silence, quiet the mind, allow, you know, consciousness
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  to stream through, not be captured and trapped in your
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  mind by, by thoughts that you just, you just go on auto
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  repeat. And I found it very challenging,
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  but also at the same time very liberating because one of the
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  things that it does, if you ever want to try this, and I've, you
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  know, already talked with many friends who are like, Oh my
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  gosh, I would love to do a silent meditation retreat.
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  Is that it really tunes you into the essence of consciousness and
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  the essence of your senses. Like your, your hearing goes way
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  up, your, your, your sight goes way up.
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  You know, just just your ability to feel and, and witness the
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  beauty and the love that surrounds us all the time.
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  And it's always available to us. And you know, there are several
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  quips that John uses, which I want to repeat here.
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  He calls this a radical act of sanity to take your seat and go
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  into the state to really quiet the mind.
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  He also calls it your response ability.
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  And there there was there was one piece which I'm thinking
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  about writing about where he he was saying sometimes during the
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  meditation, you know, it's just this, this eternal moment and
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  it's just us. And in my mind, I went to
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  justice. And the reason I went to justice
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  is that, you know, we're always in this constant programmatic
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  situation in the world of form. You know, the media wants us to
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  think a certain way and keep us locked in that state of fear.
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  Social media is pushing, you know, to to our bases fears to
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  try to just keep us clicking like mice in a maze looking for
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  the cheese. And at any point in time, we can
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  take our seats. So what did I take away from,
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  from this experience? When my mind is in a noisy
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  place, I can always act with response ability and I can
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  always have that radical act of sanity and take my seat.
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  And I've been meditating since on a regular basis and it, it's
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  really amazing. So I would encourage you to take
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  up a practice like that. You know, my 2026 theme is all
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  about embodiment. My 2025 theme for the new year
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  was all about the inner journey. And so this is a, this is a
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  example of me living that. And I've got a A2 week
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  meditation retreat coming up in Bali at the end of April and
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  beginning of May that I'm really excited about later this year
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  with Neeraj Mehta, Jack Herrick and a number of others that have
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  really encouraged me. And you'll see eventually, I
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  think we're, we're recording in a month or so, Neeraj Mehta on
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  the podcast. And, and it's a form of
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  meditation called Siddha Maha, which I attended virtually at
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  the end of last year to basically I was invited to it.
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  And I thought, gosh, I've got so many excuses not to do this
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  online. I'm in the final deadline for my
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  book, Love conquers fear, humanity, AI and nature,
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  abundance for all. And I just thought, you know,
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  I'm going to do it. It's again, my energy lit up.
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  And it actually made writing the end of the book, which I wrote
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  the introduction and chapter 13 that week, Chapter 13 is all
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  about how to transform and how humanity will transform as we
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  enter the age of abundance for all.
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  And I'll, I'll tell you that, you know, practicing meditation,
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  practicing Siddha Maha meditation that week really
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  helped me a lot in closing it out.
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  So, so anyways, encouragement on that front.
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  I am really, really honored today to have a guest on the
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  this was, this was a dream for me, a real stretch.
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  Frankly, I had no idea how he would respond.
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  But you know, as synchronicities go, and you all know that I'm a
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  big fan of the book The Celestine Prophecy.
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  I've been involved with this group that this guy Tom Morgan
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  leads who will soon be over at our house tonight for dinner.
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  And it's a group called the Leading Edge.
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  And it's about 150 members, really amazing people.
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  I've gotten a lot of value out of the group, but it was the
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  group that actually brought my guest to the forefront.
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  And they did, you know, Q&A, an interview with him.
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  And, and I used that as an opportunity to reach out and see
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  if he'd like to be on Love Conquer Sphere.
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  And he said yes. And it is just a huge honor.
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  And we've, we've been having a lot of fun over the the last two
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  days. I welcome Chris Bache.
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  Yeah. Chris.
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  Yeah. Thank you very much.
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  What an honor, what an honor. Well, real pleasure, real
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  pleasure. I are with you.
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  Well, it's, it's, it really is just a huge honor and and this,
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  this feels like it was destined to happen when I, when I started
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  love conquers fear your book, LSD in the mind of the universe,
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  Diamonds from Heaven. That book I've read twice now
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  and for me it is the most cosmic book about how to decode the
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  reality that we're in that that I've ever read out of 55 books
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  that I read last year. And it's, it's just a must read
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  for people. And you know, people that that
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  are not into psychedelics, I would understand that maybe that
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  would be a turn off for them and hearing the title.
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  But you know, I know from psychedelics in in my own
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  experience that that really is a connection with the divine and
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  that it really has helped me figure out what our actual
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  reality is and the fact that we we come from a place of light
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  and love. And so the way you decode that
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  in the book is just just amazing.
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  But maybe we can go back to the beginning on what you know, what
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  were the journeys that motivated you eventually to write the book
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  40 years after your first, your first journey?
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  Yeah, I'm not a psychologist, and I'm certainly not a business
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  person or an entrepreneur. I've been a a professor of
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  religious studies at a small university in Northeast Ohio,
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  and I finished Graduate School as a pretty deeply convinced
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  agnostic, atheistically inclined agnostic.
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  And I met the work of Ian Stevenson when I first started
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  my career. And this is back in 78 and the,
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  you know, the the master introducing empirical evidence
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  for reincarnation. It turned my thinking upside
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  down. Then more importantly, I met
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  Stanislav Groff's work and he had just published Realms of the
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  Human Unconscious and I took that in and I immediately felt a
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  calling to to do this work and. And he's, he's a real pioneer
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  in, in LSD research. Yeah, he's the.
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  One of the world's foremost authorities on integrating
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  psychedelics into the therapeutic in therapeutic work.
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  And so in 1979 I started working on a self experiment privately
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  underground because it was illegal by that time.
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  And after three medium dose sessions and these are highly
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  structured therapeutic sessions using Stan Grauf's paradigm, his
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  protocol total isolation, eye shades, lying down, headphones,
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  music, carefully calibrated sitter that I did 73 high dose
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  LSD sessions. This a protocol I don't
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  recommend, but I had a passion to want to understand as deeply
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  as I could the fundamentals structure of reality, of
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  spiritual reality. And I started in the beginning,
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  like many people. Many of us got involved in
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  psychedelics back then to sort of accelerate my spiritual
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  evolution, to sort of burn up my karma, chew through my karma
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  faster, and awakened sooner. But the method I used was so
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  powerful, it took me beyond the parameters of spiritual
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  awakening into what I came to recognize as cosmological
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  exploration. So I did this work.
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  I did 73 sessions over 20 years. I did 4 years of work.
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  I stopped for six years, then I did 10 years of work on average.
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  For the years I was working, I was doing 5 sessions a year.
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  So that's, some people would think that's a lot, some people
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  would think that's not a lot. And then I stopped in 79 and 99.
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  So I, I worked between when I was 30 to 50 years old while I
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  was doing my work at the university.
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  So I had a kind of a, a dual life.
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  I was an academic in the department doing the things
• 15:02
  academics do and publishing and doing committees and teaching
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  and, and in my private life, I was doing this very intense
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  psychotherapeutic exploration using LSD.
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  And then after I finished, I had was writing several books along
• 15:21
  the way. But the one that you mentioned,
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  LSD in the Mind of the Universe, I published 20 years after I
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  stopped the sessions because it it takes a long time to
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  assimilate and to absorb and understand and what was going on
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  in these very deep excursions into the universe and then
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  published LSD in the Mind of the Universe was just basically just
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  telling a straightforward story as clearly as I can, as
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  concisely as I can. What happened on this journey
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  where it went and it went in all sorts of directions that
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  surprised me. I know things I didn't think
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  were possible. So it's basically an account of
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  a philosopher who has strong kind of existential questions
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  exploring with this new psycho technology and see where it went
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  and and you. Know just so the the audience
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  knows a high dose, I think it's 600 micrograms, right?
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  Yeah, I worked. 500 to 600 micrograms.
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  And again, this is not a protocol that I would recommend.
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  And now that I've been through it, now that I understand much
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  more than I knew at the beginning, I would, if I were
• 16:38
  doing it over again, I would do it differently.
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  I would balance high dose with low dose.
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  I would work with sometimes high doses with maybe LSD, but I
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  would work with psilocybin or ayahuasca in an alternating.
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  I'd be much more nuanced in my approach.
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  But at the time this is what I was doing and and and.
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  You know, just just to put that in context because I've I, I've,
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  you know, I'm very pro psychedelics, but I've never
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  done that dosage of any, of any psychedelic.
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  It's good. It's a yeah, it's a, you know,
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  the journeys I've had last around 3 1/2 to 4 hours.
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  Yeah. And I think 500 to 600
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  micrograms. I think that's around 8 1/2 nine
• 17:25
  hour journey, right? Yeah, yeah, it's five hours.
• 17:27
  Most intense, but with the tail when they come down about 8
• 17:30
  hours, right? Yeah.
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  Right. Yeah, it's an all day.
• 17:33
  Enterprise, yeah. And and justice like anytime
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  people do psychedelics great intentionality really good care
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  that you had with with your wife at the time yeah had a.
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  Sitter, right? And she was a clinical
• 17:50
  psychologist, and my wife was always a sitter.
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  Once you move into this work, you recognize that this is so
• 17:56
  intense. So these states are so intense
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  and they're so demanding on your body and your emotions and your
• 18:02
  consciousness that you really have to prepare for it very
• 18:07
  conscientiously. I mean, you have to.
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  I would do spiritual practices before the session.
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  I'd do a different kind of spiritual practice after the
• 18:15
  session to support integration the the the cost and the
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  challenge of entering this deeply into these states of
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  consciousness requires just a lot of care and a lot of
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  forethought. Mm hmm.
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  Going into it and yeah, so a lot of preparation.
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  And I really when I'm talking to my students or what not about
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  this, always recommending that if you're going to work in this
• 18:37
  protocol where you're entering into temporary states of
• 18:41
  immersion. So it's a temporary condition
• 18:44
  different than classical spiritual practice.
• 18:48
  If you're going to work in these very short, intense temporary
• 18:51
  states, it's really important to have a, a daily spiritual
• 18:55
  practice to anchor you, to help you absorb what you're letting
• 18:59
  loose, to give you a training in discriminating awareness that
• 19:04
  you can take into these states that help you stabilize.
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  Because these are very convulsive, kind of
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  existentially convulsive states. And meditation training is
• 19:15
  really helpful in entering those states productively.
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  Yeah, Yeah. It's, it's not, it's, it's not a
• 19:21
  protocol that any of the retreat centers I've been to would,
• 19:27
  would ever take someone through because they'd probably end up
• 19:31
  never coming because it's, so it would be so intense.
• 19:35
  You know, the, the, the only, the only person that I
• 19:39
  personally know that has ever done something of that intensity
• 19:44
  is John Mackey, who, you know, you were, you were watching his
• 19:47
  episode today. It was episode 30 and he he
• 19:52
  wrote a tell all memoir on the journey of Whole Foods with the
• 19:57
  whole story. And it starts out in chapter 1
• 20:01
  where he talks about this macro dose of LSD that he had.
• 20:07
  He faced complete ego death, saw the unity of all things, you
• 20:14
  know, the dissolution, you know, he became just part of source
• 20:18
  and. The outcome of that after he
• 20:22
  dropped out of UT Austin was to start Whole Foods.
• 20:28
  Yeah, it got him over the fear of.
• 20:32
  That's a great session, basically being an
• 20:34
  entrepreneurial, like a great session not just for him, but
• 20:38
  for the world. I mean, you know, Whole Foods
• 20:40
  has done more to advance, you know, a very intentional diets,
• 20:46
  you know, really taking good care of the animals, you know,
• 20:52
  the, the plants that, that, that they sell you everything else.
• 20:56
  I mean, it's really changed the world.
• 20:57
  I I always tell people as a vegetarian that Whole Foods has
• 21:02
  done more to advance the vegetarian diet probably than
• 21:05
  any other company in the entire world.
• 21:08
  You know, because they, they gave, they gave so many brands a
• 21:11
  chance like Beyond Meat and, you know, so many brands that, that
• 21:16
  really that was their entry point.
• 21:17
  Yeah. For the market and that extra.
• 21:19
  Boost of awareness, that constant, you know, I think of
• 21:23
  psychedelics, our understanding of psychedelics is that they are
• 21:26
  amplifiers of consciousness. They don't give you a specific
• 21:29
  experience. They just amplify the
• 21:31
  consciousness that you have. But if you use that, this
• 21:35
  temporary state of amplified consciousness will, it can lead
• 21:39
  to all sorts of breakthroughs and insights and healing of
• 21:43
  trauma or just it just opens you up and you see things and
• 21:47
  understand things better. And it can give you that, like
• 21:49
  John, that breakthrough to that momentum to do something really.
• 21:54
  Yeah, I mean, it's definitely been transformational for for my
• 21:58
  life. I've always felt like I've
• 22:00
  understood my meaning and I've had, you know, experiences with
• 22:05
  I'm, I'm going to use the word God because that's what I call
• 22:08
  it. But, but you know, for people
• 22:10
  listening to this, they could think of it as consciousness or
• 22:12
  the universe or, you know, the, the astral plane, however they
• 22:16
  want to, you know, heaven, however they want to refer to
• 22:19
  that. So I, you know, I, I felt, I, I
• 22:23
  remember the moments in my life where I had that really deep
• 22:26
  experience, you know, pre ever taking psychedelics with, you
• 22:32
  know, exactly where I was at the, the, the, the spiritual
• 22:35
  awakening, the feeling in my body and just this beautiful
• 22:39
  knowing of that we're surrounded by, by so much love that that's
• 22:43
  where we come from. But but actually experiencing
• 22:47
  that in my journeys and seeing that, you know, my meaning has
• 22:55
  been to really help humanity through technology, create a
• 22:59
  better world. You know, being Jewish, that's
• 23:01
  called tikkun Alam. You know, here we are at the
• 23:05
  ultimate manifestation of that. And, you know, it was love
• 23:09
  conquers fear, a journey that really led to what I'm doing
• 23:14
  right now and led to the book that that I just concluded
• 23:19
  writing, which now I'm in the tedious editing process.
• 23:21
  I'm sure you know how how that goes.
• 23:23
  That's like, yeah. But you know, I do want, I do
• 23:26
  want to, you know, and I've said this multiple times on the
• 23:29
  podcast with lots of guests have, have have given this
• 23:32
  advice like, you know, real care set in setting really matters,
• 23:37
  like really understanding like where you're at, whether or not
• 23:41
  it's the right place for you. You've really checked the
• 23:44
  references on wherever you're going.
• 23:46
  And, you know, all of that stuff matters a lot because you're
• 23:50
  you're you're using very, very powerful spiritual tools.
• 23:55
  And and I personally, I'm not saying I look down on people and
• 24:02
  do this, but because I don't like everybody makes their own
• 24:05
  choice, but I don't use them at all in party type settings.
• 24:10
  Yeah. Purely have never tripped.
• 24:12
  I don't trip and I don't, you know, and I always specify these
• 24:17
  are sessions. These are.
• 24:18
  And it, it really draws from the Japanese term of Sachin, which
• 24:22
  is a period of intense spiritual practice, meditation practice.
• 24:26
  So for me, a day spent in the psychedelic state is a Sachin.
• 24:31
  It's a very intense time of spiritual practice or
• 24:35
  philosophical inquiry. And yeah, it's it's one of the
• 24:41
  things that I think I've learned only as I've been sharing my
• 24:46
  experiences with people, I've come to appreciate that one of
• 24:50
  the things that seemed to have impact the trajectory of my work
• 24:55
  was the standardization of set and setting in that I was using
• 24:59
  the same substance, the same dose, the same set and setting,
• 25:04
  same protocol, same sitter, even the same area of the country.
• 25:09
  Because if you change any of those, you change some of the
• 25:12
  context and it changes the meeting point between you and
• 25:18
  infinite consciousness. So it's like if we, if we want
• 25:21
  to study the stars first we go, we find a mountain way outside
• 25:26
  of town where there's very few lights.
• 25:29
  And we get up on the mountain and we create this great big
• 25:31
  ears of an antenna and we put it up in the sky and we hold it
• 25:35
  there for a long period of time and don't move it so that the
• 25:38
  subtle signals begin to register.
• 25:41
  And I think it's like that with psychedelics.
• 25:43
  If you, if you wanna hold it there for a long period of time.
• 25:49
  And if you do that and you register and absorb what comes
• 25:52
  in and you digest it thoroughly, then when you go back the next
• 25:57
  time and the next time the conversation or the communion
• 26:01
  deepens, you're not simply going back to the same state.
• 26:04
  Something is set in motion in, in terms of your transformation
• 26:09
  inside as you absorb the teachings and try to take them
• 26:13
  in, that it changes you. And so the changed you enters
• 26:19
  into a different kind of communion, A deeper state of
• 26:22
  communion in subsequent sessions, at least that that's
• 26:26
  been my experience. Well, one of I.
• 26:28
  Mean there there's so many things that were just incredibly
• 26:34
  mind blowing for me. I don't know any other word to
• 26:37
  to use for it in your book. And and and beautiful and and
• 26:41
  and one of them is you know by by the end of your sessions, as
• 26:45
  they were kind of wrapping up, you know, your your word for for
• 26:50
  God in the book is my beloved, although sometimes you use the
• 26:54
  word God too. God was basically you.
• 26:57
  You found at the end was taking you through in the 73 sessions
• 27:03
  in a logical sequence to decode our reality and frankly, to
• 27:10
  clear some of the collective wounds in the human psyche that
• 27:17
  we had accumulated over over our evolution here.
• 27:21
  Yeah, on earth. And that was a surprise.
• 27:23
  To me, I wasn't expecting that, yeah.
• 27:25
  Because when I started, I thought it, I had adopted a
• 27:28
  personal model of transformation.
• 27:30
  So I thought it was about personal karma, personal, you
• 27:34
  know, issues. And I was expecting to sort of
• 27:37
  work on my personal issues or former life issues and clear it
• 27:41
  up and awaken faster. And what I found is that after
• 27:47
  two years, when I'd gone through some pretty deep death and
• 27:50
  rebirth experiences, the landscape opened and I was drawn
• 27:55
  into a vast landscapes of collective suffering and
• 27:59
  collector trauma, covering hundreds of thousands of persons
• 28:04
  and thousands of years. And I just didn't have a frame
• 28:08
  of reference for understanding what was happening.
• 28:11
  And that eventually I came to understand that somehow
• 28:16
  something was using my sessions to facilitate a, a
• 28:21
  transformation, a healing, a purification of collective
• 28:26
  trauma that's stored in the collective psyche.
• 28:29
  And so that somehow this, what was started by an individual
• 28:33
  became kind of like a funnel drain, draining these poisons
• 28:36
  out of the collective psyche in order to make the, the, the mind
• 28:43
  of the species, the the species mind clearer, less traumatized
• 28:49
  and more open to the positive energies that are, I think,
• 28:53
  coming into US very powerfully at this time in history.
• 28:57
  Yeah, yeah, totally agree. I mean, I think, I think this is
• 29:02
  the most fateful time for humanity, the time that we're in
• 29:05
  right now. That's why that's why I'm doing
• 29:07
  what I'm doing. One one of them that there were
• 29:10
  so many parts of the book that that moved me a lot.
• 29:12
  And you know, last night you and I were at dinner with with my
• 29:18
  niece Chantel and my sister Brandy, which was really, really
• 29:21
  fun. We went to the well, which is
• 29:24
  great place in Austin. Highly, highly recommend.
• 29:26
  I don't have any ads on the podcast, but but I do talk about
• 29:29
  the things I love. Nobody pays me to do any of
• 29:32
  that. I'm self funding all this.
• 29:34
  You know, one one that moved me a lot and has the synchronicity
• 29:37
  with with with with my book with love conquers fear is I have a
• 29:43
  chapter on the objectification of women and how there's been
• 29:47
  millennia of suffering. And that's a poisonous kind of
• 29:52
  toxin that humanity needs to transcend.
• 29:56
  And you experienced in your journeys actually becoming a
• 29:59
  woman and seeing and experiencing and helping clear
• 30:04
  the trauma. And that that was extremely,
• 30:07
  extremely moving. Maybe you can just talk about
• 30:11
  that a bit. I was going.
• 30:12
  Through what Stan called the perinatal level of consciousness
• 30:15
  is very existential, very intense period between personal
• 30:19
  consciousness and transpersonal consciousness and going through
• 30:22
  the typical kind of intense purification processes which
• 30:27
  culminated in ego death. But the form that ego death took
• 30:32
  for me is that it took my existence.
• 30:36
  I'm a white male philosopher concerned with the meaning of
• 30:41
  life. It took that and it completely
• 30:44
  turned me into the opposite. It turned me into a female, many
• 30:49
  females, people of color, women of color, women who were not
• 30:54
  interested in philosophy or the meaning of life at all.
• 30:57
  It just turned me into the opposite and gave me no other
• 31:01
  outlet it. It just forced me to experience
• 31:04
  life from that perspective, which was terrifying.
• 31:07
  It was like the perfect hell for a philosopher, a male
• 31:10
  philosopher. And I fought it.
• 31:12
  And then eventually I stopped fighting it and I gave into it.
• 31:17
  And I went through this death and then a rebirth.
• 31:21
  And then I was taken into the world of women under the arm of
• 31:26
  the great mother, I say, and was taken into hundreds and hundreds
• 31:30
  of lives of women in all sorts of different aspects of life.
• 31:34
  I mean, I experienced being pregnant and laughing at our
• 31:37
  husbands and with my sisters. And it was just, it was a
• 31:42
  tremendous inversion. It showed me it many things
• 31:46
  about how narrowly I had experienced life from the
• 31:51
  perspective of a male ego. And it opened me to the
• 31:54
  tremendous diversity. And and that was my thought of
• 31:59
  letting go of my identity as who I've been up to that point in
• 32:05
  time. Because when you move into these
• 32:08
  very deep states of consciousness that are large and
• 32:11
  huge and expansive in time and expansive in in other ways, your
• 32:18
  identity keeps you small. It keeps you constricted.
• 32:22
  And you have to let go of that identity if you're going to have
• 32:25
  experiences that go beyond that identity.
• 32:28
  So that's just what's happened to how the universe just took me
• 32:32
  in, snapped me like a twig, and then sent me on.
• 32:36
  And there were other deaths later, but that was the first
• 32:39
  one that really snapped my ego. Why do you think?
• 32:42
  That happened like, you know, it's looking back, you know,
• 32:45
  through all the journeys, like, like, cuz it's so, I mean,
• 32:48
  people listening to this, you know, it's so, it's so
• 32:51
  transcendent, like actually like experiencing completely what it
• 32:55
  feels like to be a woman, to be the opposite of what you are,
• 32:59
  and then to experience the collective suffering that women
• 33:03
  have actually gone through. And, and, and I mean, you know,
• 33:06
  you're you, you've always struck me as someone who's deeply
• 33:10
  humble. You can feel your humility as
• 33:13
  you read your book. I highly recommend your book on
• 33:16
  audible because I love the fact that you, you read it and read
• 33:19
  it and, and just just the, the deep awe and humility and, and
• 33:26
  sometimes I don't know if you were crying during some parts of
• 33:29
  it reading it, but it's felt like it to me.
• 33:32
  Some parts just, I mean some parts made me cry.
• 33:35
  Basically, my experience has been that I always felt in
• 33:43
  participating in and with hindsight, there was always an
• 33:46
  intelligence guiding my sessions.
• 33:48
  It was very much like this class has started again.
• 33:52
  It picks up where it stopped. There's always an intelligence
• 33:55
  guiding my sessions. The intelligence never took a
• 33:58
  particular form, never took a deity form or spiritual, you
• 34:03
  know, form. It was always invisible, but it
• 34:06
  was always tangibly present. And as I went, it took me into a
• 34:12
  deeper level of reality. And the nature of the
• 34:15
  consciousness that I experienced of that reality was different
• 34:18
  than I had experienced prior. But then if I as I continued to
• 34:23
  work that level of reality, it would take me into a still
• 34:26
  deeper level of reality and in a completely different universe.
• 34:32
  And this so it was always, if it had adopted any form, that form
• 34:37
  would have been tied to a particular level of reality.
• 34:40
  But by adopting no form, it was always opening me to the
• 34:44
  possibility that there was something going beyond where
• 34:48
  this was. And it, so I just, there's an
• 34:53
  experience of exquisite intimacy with it.
• 34:58
  And I, and I, it took me a long time to understand the structure
• 35:03
  of the lessons that it was giving me because it would give
• 35:06
  me a set of experiences. And then it would take me back
• 35:10
  through them multiple times in one session and over sessions to
• 35:14
  make sure I understood. And until eventually it was sure
• 35:18
  that I understood and then it would take me into something
• 35:21
  new. So, but, but why it was doing it
• 35:26
  the way it did it. That was one of the challenges
• 35:30
  in writing the book was, was trying to digest the entire
• 35:33
  journey and to try to fathom what were the turning points,
• 35:38
  what were the stages? What was happening?
• 35:41
  How did this compare to what was going on there?
• 35:44
  And I found that there was an exquisite texture to the to the
• 35:50
  lesson, to the curriculum, but it's not one that's necessarily
• 35:53
  immediately obvious. I would go into things that were
• 35:56
  completely inscrutable. I just couldn't comprehend them.
• 36:00
  Sometimes the layers of pain would be incomprehensible, or
• 36:04
  even the layers of wonder. And it takes time to even
• 36:08
  understand what was manifesting at those moments.
• 36:13
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:14
  And, and one of the one of the things that's that's that's
• 36:16
  really moving about the book and and I feel like, you know, I
• 36:22
  need to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
• 36:24
  You know, I mean, I know many human beings have, have have.
• 36:27
  Thank you for being so curious and so driven to understand our
• 36:38
  reality and go through the level of suffering that you went
• 36:43
  through in these sessions to actually get to that level of
• 36:46
  helping clear some of the collective wounds and the human
• 36:51
  psyche and get the insights you know that you got.
• 36:55
  You know, one of the things that I talked with about after, after
• 36:59
  I picked you up at the airport is as I said, I hope, I hope you
• 37:02
  know that, that you, you understand, I meant no harm in
• 37:07
  this. But I've said, you know, many
• 37:08
  times on the podcast, I've, I've, I've referenced your book
• 37:11
  a lot, including in the interview with, with John.
• 37:14
  Yeah, John and I were on a plane together going to to Necker
• 37:18
  Island last year to meet with Richard Branson and these
• 37:22
  amazing conscious capitalist and just had an amazing time
• 37:25
  together. And he had picked up your book
• 37:32
  and I and I said, what do you think so far?
• 37:35
  And he said, well, I'm trying more and more to get into it.
• 37:39
  And I said, John, I just recommend you jump to Chapter 9,
• 37:42
  jump to Chapter 9, and then talk go into the birth of the future
• 37:47
  human. And what's on the other side of
• 37:50
  that? The diamond sole diamond vision.
• 37:52
  We'll get into that in this interview and then work your way
• 37:57
  back. But how would you summarize the,
• 38:03
  I know this is a tall order, but how would you summarize the
• 38:06
  collective healing parts of the journey, you know, the the ego
• 38:11
  death that you had to go through to get to the other side?
• 38:14
  Yeah. To help clear some of humanity's
• 38:18
  greatest wounds. I mean, I know it was
• 38:23
  unexpected. Yeah.
• 38:25
  And I can't imagine that you would even, you know, going into
• 38:29
  this, say like, hey, I have a desire to do that now.
• 38:34
  Your soul, I'm sure did. Yeah.
• 38:36
  Because. But I did.
• 38:37
  Come to learn later you did down the way you did is that my soul
• 38:43
  was incarnated to do this work yes and the hit the collective
• 38:47
  healing was an aspect of that and I I seem to have been given
• 38:52
  a constitution that allowed me to do the work.
• 38:56
  I was built strong for this type of work.
• 38:58
  I I can go into expansive states comfortably and I also congeal
• 39:06
  comfortably. I didn't understand any of this
• 39:10
  when it opened, but fortunately it took me into that ocean, what
• 39:14
  I call the ocean of suffering. Slowly it took me into it.
• 39:17
  Stage by stage it intensified and it was intense because I
• 39:22
  opened up into into this work for one year and then I stopped
• 39:27
  the work and it was in for six years.
• 39:31
  And then when I started the work again, the ocean of suffering,
• 39:34
  this collective purification work began exactly where it'd
• 39:38
  start, stopped and continued on. And so let me back up just a
• 39:43
  bit. In my experience working with
• 39:45
  this, there's a purification phase of the session and there's
• 39:48
  an ecstatic phase. So you first go through the
• 39:51
  purification, the death part, and then you go once.
• 39:55
  If you navigate that well, it reaches A crescendo.
• 39:59
  There's a kind of an ultimate sacrifice made, and then you're
• 40:03
  spun out for the remainder of the session into an ecstatic
• 40:08
  phase. So it's not like there's just
• 40:10
  all suffering and all suffering. I would never have been able to
• 40:12
  endure it, but there is a second part of the session.
• 40:17
  So when I was going in through the ocean of suffering in the
• 40:19
  first part of the hour of each session.
• 40:23
  There was an ecstatic phase that was following on the second
• 40:26
  part, and there was a continuity of development through the
• 40:29
  ecstatic phase. So in the first year of the
• 40:33
  ocean of suffering I got, when I would went through it, I was
• 40:37
  being taken beyond linear time and what I came to call deep
• 40:42
  time. I began to have these seven
• 40:45
  sessions where I experienced my entire life from beginning to
• 40:49
  end as simultaneously present. Now.
• 40:53
  I experienced my old age. Now that that was a dramatic and
• 40:59
  clarifying experience because I began to have an understanding
• 41:03
  of what my life was about, what it served, what I was here for.
• 41:07
  And then when I stopped for six years, when I started again, the
• 41:12
  ocean of suffering began. But then I was a whole new
• 41:17
  chapter began with what I called initiation in the universe.
• 41:21
  It was like I was being given a crash course in cosmology.
• 41:25
  One O 1. I was taken through a series of
• 41:28
  experience that began to show me it took me back to the beginning
• 41:32
  of creation, so The Big Bang, and it began to show me some of
• 41:35
  the dynamics operating in in the emergence of our of our
• 41:42
  universe, which from a philosophical perspective was
• 41:46
  tremendously valuable set of insights.
• 41:50
  So I just wanted to make sure that the reader listener
• 41:54
  understands it wasn't just all suffering.
• 41:56
  It was a always it was a cycle. And what you learn is the cycle.
• 42:00
  You learn that if you can go into great pain and great
• 42:04
  suffering without understanding why, I didn't understand why.
• 42:07
  But if you let it take you wherever it's going, wants to
• 42:10
  take you and surrender to it completely, it will take you
• 42:14
  through a, a vortex and then you will come into great ecstasy and
• 42:18
  great teaching and receive blessings.
• 42:20
  So what you internalize is the whole cycle.
• 42:23
  It gets bad, OK, and then it gets better.
• 42:27
  And so it's, it's a rhythmic cycle.
• 42:28
  And that's what gives you the strength to go back into the,
• 42:31
  the suffering again. I took two years to begin the
• 42:35
  ocean of suffering and to get through the the ego death part.
• 42:39
  And then the Ocean of suffering lasted 2 years total of active
• 42:44
  work. And then there was this
• 42:47
  crescendo and sort of an orgy of of collective anguish and and
• 42:56
  then I was catapulted out into the next stage of the journey.
• 42:59
  What took me into the beginning of archetypal reality and the
• 43:04
  ocean of suffering never returned, which left me with a
• 43:07
  puzzle. Why?
• 43:09
  Because clearly there's great suffering remaining in the
• 43:12
  collection. You couldn't have cleared it
• 43:13
  off. I couldn't have.
• 43:14
  Cleared it off and and I want to say that I don't think there's
• 43:18
  anything spiritually special about taking this work on.
• 43:24
  To me, it's like this is what any mother, any father would do
• 43:29
  if they had an opportunity, if, if they saw a child suffering,
• 43:34
  we would just simply step up and try to do what we could do to
• 43:38
  stop that suffering. And that's kind of what it felt
• 43:40
  like. It felt like just a normal
• 43:42
  response to witnessing suffering in the world.
• 43:46
  And if you're given an understanding that you can
• 43:50
  change that, then you just do it.
• 43:52
  It's just a natural instinct. Yeah.
• 43:54
  Well, when? You're the way I would describe
• 43:56
  that is when when you're in your alignment with your soul's
• 43:59
  mission in this lifetime, you have an unparalleled amount of
• 44:05
  energy and you feel the Call of Duty.
• 44:11
  Yeah, you feel that this is a must do.
• 44:13
  And then when that culminated? I eventually decided I thought
• 44:19
  it could be why it stopped. Maybe it was because anyone
• 44:23
  individual is only allowed to do so much.
• 44:27
  But I think the larger reason is you can become useful to the
• 44:32
  system, more useful by bringing blessings into the system from
• 44:37
  above, then draining the poisons out from the bottom.
• 44:42
  I'm not sure whether that's the ultimate reason for it, but
• 44:46
  that's what the best I could come up with.
• 44:49
  Because the ocean of suffering stopped and somehow the energy
• 44:55
  that was released in that process, it was as if it's like
• 45:00
  being underneath storm clouds. And so the light isn't getting
• 45:04
  through. And this work seemed to have
• 45:06
  cleaned out some of the clouds and then there was more light
• 45:10
  coming in and that more light became the foundation for
• 45:16
  everything that followed. Next this, it's a, it changed
• 45:20
  the operational landscape altogether.
• 45:23
  And then I went into the, the next series of, of work.
• 45:27
  The other thing I would mention is that I think there are many,
• 45:29
  many people in the world doing this type of work, not
• 45:32
  necessarily with psychedelics and whatnot, but I think there
• 45:35
  are many, many hidden bodhisattvas in the world who
• 45:41
  are working to lift the suffering, not just their
• 45:47
  personal suffering of their personal karmic lineage
• 45:49
  suffering, but really working to lift the suffering out of the
• 45:52
  collective psyche. So I don't think this is in any
• 45:57
  way certainly nothing unique to me and nothing privileged.
• 46:00
  This is a a widespread effort now across the world.
• 46:04
  Yeah, yeah, I see. That too.
• 46:06
  I mean, I see so many people putting big oars in the water to
• 46:12
  know the stakes, you know, know that that this is the time where
• 46:18
  we really gotta make sure humanity makes it.
• 46:22
  I mean, that that's something that that, you know, I saw very
• 46:26
  clearly in a journey. You know, one of the things that
• 46:30
  I've, I've been blessed with and we all have our, our, our gifts
• 46:34
  is the ability to see where technology is going to go.
• 46:39
  And, you know, growing up as a kid in Austin, Austin was a very
• 46:44
  small town when I was born, it was about the size of Anchorage,
• 46:47
  AK. Today, it's crazy that now this
• 46:49
  is the 13th largest city in the, in the US and it's just booming.
• 46:55
  But, you know, it's picked on a lot for being different because
• 46:58
  back then, you know, I start programming obsessively at age
• 47:01
  7, thanks to my mom. And, and back then that wasn't
• 47:05
  normal, you know, and anytime you do something that's really
• 47:09
  away from the crowd, people are worried for you.
• 47:12
  You know, it's like that, that movie, The Croods, you know,
• 47:16
  this, this cartoon movie where, you know, his daughter wants to
• 47:22
  go outside The Cave and like, really go explore and see if she
• 47:26
  can meet other, you know, early versions of Homo sapiens.
• 47:31
  And he's like, no, don't do it. You know, you're going to die or
• 47:33
  something's going to eat you or whatever else.
• 47:35
  And eventually she does it and humanity advances.
• 47:40
  And so, you know, we're we're we're in a time where where the
• 47:47
  opportunity to create abundance for everyone on the planet, heal
• 47:54
  the planet, heal the animals on the planet, really alleviate A
• 48:00
  tremendous amount of suffering is has never been more present
• 48:06
  than it is now. And I see, yeah.
• 48:09
  And I see a lot of people like putting big ores in the water.
• 48:13
  I mean, and, and, and Myspace and tech, you know, Mira Murati
• 48:16
  and, you know, Reed Hoffman and, you know, demisisibis is that,
• 48:23
  and Mustafa Suleiman and, you know, these names that, that
• 48:26
  people listening to this will know that really are, are
• 48:30
  heading, you know, some of the most important AI initiatives
• 48:33
  and doing it with great intentionality, knowing that,
• 48:37
  that getting to the other side of this means the end of
• 48:41
  disease, a world of nearly unlimited energy.
• 48:46
  And, you know, really the alleviation of, of a lot of the
• 48:53
  division of humanity, which, you know, that, that episode, which
• 48:56
  on Mackey, he, he talked about is, you know, a root of our
• 49:00
  suffering. And, and the, this, this
• 49:03
  dogmatic separation is just an illusion as it is, but realizing
• 49:08
  that we're 99.9% genetically identical all over the world and
• 49:14
  that we have this, this opportunity.
• 49:16
  And, and I think it's the next 10 to 15 years that really
• 49:20
  determine whether or not we make it.
• 49:22
  And technology forces us to make choices.
• 49:27
  You know, it, it makes other, it makes other means of being
• 49:32
  obsolete. I'll give you an example.
• 49:33
  Like we're, we're an investor in a company called Upside Foods
• 49:39
  and it makes meat from the cells of an animal.
• 49:44
  It's a very Star Trek, you know, kind of like you remember the
• 49:47
  Star Trek replicator And it's, it's, it's superior to regular
• 49:55
  meat. There's no use of antibiotics.
• 49:57
  There's no hormones in it. It's so clean that if you put it
• 50:02
  in the refrigerator, it would last for weeks and weeks because
• 50:06
  there's no contaminants. But it's just meat.
• 50:09
  It's cellularly the exact same thing.
• 50:13
  And the difficult thing about a company like that is getting to
• 50:16
  scale. And in Texas, it's been
• 50:19
  outlawed. Unfortunately, my own state,
• 50:22
  it's been outlawed in Florida. Guess who's doing the
• 50:25
  outlawning? It's dominated.
• 50:29
  You know, the Texas House, the Florida house, like quite a few
• 50:32
  of them are cattle ranchers. They see this as a threat, but
• 50:36
  it's inevitable that it's going to get there because because the
• 50:39
  way capitalism works and technology works is that
• 50:43
  eventually you break the, you get on a new technological curve
• 50:48
  where the cost and superiority of the product are undeniably
• 50:54
  better. Yeah.
• 50:55
  And that's what's gonna happen with this cuz you're using
• 50:58
  almost no land. It uses about a tenth of the
• 51:01
  water and a tenth of the feed cost.
• 51:03
  But it's it's a live tissue you could draw.
• 51:06
  Parallels with psychedelics, I mean, they were made illegal,
• 51:09
  but they've been proven. They're proving themselves to be
• 51:12
  so effective in healing and so effective in deepening our
• 51:16
  insights into ourselves and into life itself that they're being
• 51:21
  reclaimed. There are over 300 universities
• 51:24
  and medical schools across the world that are studying the
• 51:28
  therapeutic applications of psychedelics.
• 51:31
  So they are coming back. They're just too valuable.
• 51:34
  But they were made illegal because they frightened us.
• 51:36
  They scared us. They turned up things.
• 51:38
  We didn't understand them. But the Indigenous people have
• 51:41
  had them for thousands of years, you know, So now we are, we are
• 51:45
  learning from our Indigenous brothers and sisters a lot of
• 51:48
  how to use them, how to use them wisely because we didn't
• 51:51
  necessarily use them very wisely when they first hit our shores.
• 51:55
  You know, right now, I think we're ready for a second more
• 51:59
  grounded engagement with them. Yeah.
• 52:03
  Yeah, and we even you know, we even I've, I've said multiple
• 52:07
  times on the podcast that there there's so much ancient wisdom
• 52:10
  for us to learn from. Yeah.
• 52:11
  That there was, there was actually a concerted effort to
• 52:14
  kind of demonize, you know, some of those people as like, you
• 52:18
  know, the, you know, as you say, the indigenous peoples like
• 52:21
  savages, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah.
• 52:23
  And they, they knew how to use their bodies and minds more than
• 52:28
  most of us know how to use them today, you know, and continue
• 52:32
  that that tradition. So there's so much that we can
• 52:34
  learn from each other. Yeah, in the book I've, I've
• 52:39
  mentioned, you know, chapters 9 through 11 and everybody's gonna
• 52:44
  have their favorite section. And I would actually love to ask
• 52:48
  you what your favorite is. But but, but I would love to
• 52:53
  cover that section if, if you don't mind, sure, because it's
• 52:57
  so transcendent. And, and by the way, when I,
• 53:00
  when I mentioned to John, hey, jump into that about an hour
• 53:03
  later, I was like, what do you think?
• 53:05
  And he's like, OK, now I'm really into it.
• 53:08
  So, so it did work with at least John Mackey.
• 53:10
  You know, Chapter 9 is is all about the birth of the future
• 53:16
  human and how we're in this evolutionary shift.
• 53:21
  And you describe humanity as a kind of super Organism.
• 53:25
  You know which on episode 11 of the podcast, Byron Reese, one of
• 53:28
  my best friends, great author, talked about humanity as a super
• 53:33
  Organism in this book. We are a Gora and I, I, it's
• 53:39
  very Avatar way of thinking, but I really, I really believe it
• 53:42
  that we're all connected. We're all, we're all, we're all
• 53:45
  part of 1 consciousness and consciousness being fundamental.
• 53:50
  And if you, if you could just kind of start with breaking
• 53:54
  that, that that section down. And I would love to fill in like
• 53:58
  the parts that jumped out to me the most because there's so much
• 54:02
  richness. Yeah, in there.
• 54:04
  And there's also, you know, some real anguish, like what what you
• 54:08
  saw we have to go through to get to the other side, which which
• 54:13
  I'm hoping with, with with initiatives like like mine, with
• 54:16
  with with others, that we don't have to go through so much pain
• 54:21
  to form the future human. And you know, as you, you call,
• 54:26
  you know, God is, is ultimately like the diamond maker, you
• 54:31
  know, taken us through through this evolutionary shift and that
• 54:34
  were built for evolutionary speed.
• 54:36
  We are. We are let me let me back up
• 54:39
  just a bit we'll so we'll get on the the birth of the future
• 54:42
  human great that began to come in more than 10 years into the
• 54:50
  journey. So there's a lot of steps going
• 54:52
  up to that. So there's a lot of learning, a
• 54:55
  lot of, you know, because working in these states, you
• 54:59
  learn by becoming. So you must become something in
• 55:05
  order to really experience it deeply and understand it and so.
• 55:11
  You. Experience the collective psyche
• 55:14
  of the human species, not from an outside perspective, but you
• 55:18
  learn it by losing yourself and dissolving into it, and yet
• 55:22
  having an awareness and then being taught how it works, how
• 55:25
  the collective psyche works well, how the species mind works
• 55:29
  you. There's a period of dying into
• 55:32
  this collective mind, and then there's a period of dying out of
• 55:37
  the collective mind where the death that's involved in going
• 55:41
  the next stage is not an ego death, but you literally die to
• 55:46
  the fundamental cognitive structures of humanity itself.
• 55:50
  You'd you're the entire, at one point, the entire history of
• 55:54
  humanity fell away from me. And when when the history fell
• 55:58
  away, all the philosophies, all the religions of the world, all
• 56:02
  the understandings, all the science of the world fell away
• 56:06
  and I moved into archetypal reality.
• 56:11
  And then after experiencing that reality for a while, there was
• 56:14
  another transition. And I experienced entering in
• 56:17
  what some would call causal reality, non dual reality.
• 56:21
  And, and all along this process, I'd be there are things that
• 56:25
  began to be dropped into my experience.
• 56:27
  They were just pieces that were dropped in.
• 56:32
  And I when I wrote the book, I collected these visionary
• 56:35
  experiences together in one chapter.
• 56:39
  And basically, I'm gonna not do them justice in a short summary,
• 56:45
  but I basically began to have profoundly deep insights that
• 56:51
  told me that humanity was coming into a critical time in its
• 56:54
  evolutionary story. We're entering into a time of
• 56:58
  profound grace, a a pivot point that would mark a before and
• 57:03
  after of human evolution, of human story, a time of of great
• 57:08
  spiritual fruition, a time of great peace, a time of ecstatic
• 57:16
  joy. So these kept on dropping in.
• 57:21
  And there were other pieces of seeing that there is a, an
• 57:26
  intelligence in the universe that is manifesting itself in
• 57:30
  these changes. This wasn't something that we
• 57:32
  were doing by ourselves, for ourselves, but there was a
• 57:36
  nature was doing this through US.
• 57:38
  Nature was taking us into this turning point, which was of a
• 57:42
  magnitude comparable to to earlier in our evolutionary
• 57:46
  history when we inherited the 50% increase in our brain size.
• 57:51
  You know, that we didn't give ourselves that.
• 57:53
  Nature gave us that something happening like that.
• 57:58
  And this was, it really was striking.
• 58:03
  And 1st, I didn't have any even at the beginning.
• 58:06
  I didn't even have an understanding that seeing these
• 58:09
  things was even possible. But nowhere did my sessions give
• 58:13
  me or the the consciousness in my sessions give me any insight
• 58:17
  into how it was going to accomplish this.
• 58:20
  I didn't understand how it would be possible given what I looked
• 58:23
  around in the world. I didn't see us making this
• 58:27
  quantum jump in consciousness. But then late in my work in
• 58:34
  session 55, Which kind of late in the story because I had
• 58:38
  already entered into, we'll talk later about the diamond
• 58:42
  luminosity work I've done, I had two of those experiences.
• 58:45
  There were two more to come. And in the middle of it, when I
• 58:49
  was expecting to be taken into diamond luminosity, something
• 58:54
  completely different opened up. I dissolved into the collective
• 58:58
  mind. I dissolved into the human
• 58:59
  family. And then I experienced ask the
• 59:03
  human family. What I came to understand was
• 59:07
  the death and rebirth of humanity.
• 59:10
  Not a lot of the detail given, but it was the experience of my
• 59:14
  human family experiencing A radical unraveling, a radical
• 59:20
  destructoring, a radical loss of all frames of reference, a loss
• 59:25
  of control, a dissolving of structures taking us.
• 59:31
  And it was like a hurricane blowing over a Pacific island
• 59:35
  where you're just reduced to grabbing on to something and
• 59:38
  holding on and hoping you survive.
• 59:40
  It was that profound. The anguish was excruciating.
• 59:45
  I mean that the fear that I felt was extraordinary.
• 59:50
  And then just when it was at its worst, just when it looked like
• 59:54
  all was lost, the storm passed. We began to pick ourselves up.
• 1:00:01
  And we found that humanity had been profoundly changed by this
• 1:00:05
  crisis. It's something happened to touch
• 1:00:08
  something. It it opened something in our
• 1:00:10
  heart. We found that we had abilities
• 1:00:13
  that we did not have before. The way I'm beginning to had
• 1:00:17
  begun to think about this is that it really opened up the
• 1:00:20
  heart and it opened it us up to the profound experience of
• 1:00:23
  oneness. And with the experience of
• 1:00:25
  oneness, it kind of you might think of as the heart chakra.
• 1:00:28
  It also opened up higher cognitive functions, higher
• 1:00:33
  chakra functions. As we began to organize and
• 1:00:37
  reorganize after this crisis period, there was a synergistic
• 1:00:43
  creativity. There was just a hyper
• 1:00:47
  creativity manifesting itself. And the session was took me
• 1:00:53
  deeply over and over and over again.
• 1:00:54
  It said this is gonna happen faster than anyone is imagining.
• 1:00:58
  It's faster than anyone can imagine.
• 1:01:00
  And it showed me some of the systems, some of the workings of
• 1:01:02
  nonlinear systems, that the human collective psyche is a
• 1:01:06
  system. And the trauma of this event is
• 1:01:10
  going to be so excruciating for the individuals that it's gonna
• 1:01:13
  stimulate not just the individual psyche, It's gonna
• 1:01:16
  hyper stimulate the collective psyche.
• 1:01:19
  It's gonna move the collective psyche into what a chaos
• 1:01:22
  theoretician would call a nonlinear state, and then the
• 1:01:25
  condition of a far from the equilibrium or non equilibrium
• 1:01:28
  condition. Nature has the capacity to evoke
• 1:01:32
  great creativity very fast and to make changes very fast.
• 1:01:37
  It was a brutal experience. It ended well, but it was
• 1:01:41
  excruciatingly difficult because, as I say in the book,
• 1:01:45
  after it was over, it took me about a year just to recover
• 1:01:49
  from the experience, to experience my entire human
• 1:01:52
  family going through an ordeal like this.
• 1:01:55
  And I don't, I don't know whether it's going to be exactly
• 1:02:00
  like this. All I can do is report what I
• 1:02:02
  experienced. And I felt like I was walking
• 1:02:05
  around my town in Ohio and it was like walking around
• 1:02:09
  Hiroshima the week before the bomb went off, that I, everyone
• 1:02:13
  around me, I had such profound respect for the souls who are
• 1:02:18
  here. We're choosing to live on this
• 1:02:20
  planet and choosing to undergo and to support this process of
• 1:02:25
  transformation, which would have ramifications far into history.
• 1:02:30
  I think this is not only a change of our political
• 1:02:33
  structure, our civilizational structure, economic structure.
• 1:02:37
  It's a, a change which reaches so deeply, it'll change the
• 1:02:42
  fundamental substructure of the collective psyche, a change in
• 1:02:46
  the plate tectonics of the collective psyche so that
• 1:02:49
  children who are born after we make this transition, and I
• 1:02:53
  don't think it's like a quick transition, it's a multi
• 1:02:55
  generational transition. They will be born, they will
• 1:03:01
  live in a, in a different form of humanity, a different
• 1:03:05
  collective psyche. They will have natural aptitudes
• 1:03:09
  beyond what are natural aptitudes today.
• 1:03:12
  It didn't give me a lot of detail about what are the
• 1:03:15
  triggering causes. I, I experienced a global
• 1:03:18
  crisis. It seemed that it might be
• 1:03:21
  related to a cascading series of crises that were environmentally
• 1:03:25
  related. I didn't see much of the detail
• 1:03:30
  I had just experienced, the depth of trauma and the
• 1:03:35
  magnificence of the creature that came out of that.
• 1:03:39
  And then later subsequent sessions, I had several
• 1:03:43
  opportunities. I was taken deep into again what
• 1:03:46
  I call deep time and was taken into the future and experiencing
• 1:03:54
  this new archetype of the future human given some sense of what
• 1:03:58
  it was about and. When I've.
• 1:04:03
  Experienced this, being this, it's just the most magnificent
• 1:04:14
  thing. The being is just the most
• 1:04:16
  extraordinary. We're looking at humanity
• 1:04:20
  healed, humanity empowered. It's it truly is like a, a
• 1:04:25
  species of where of Christ, a species of Buddhas, a species of
• 1:04:30
  the prophets, all prophets, all Buddhas.
• 1:04:33
  It's just an extraordinary transformation of the human
• 1:04:37
  condition. Now, I hope we don't have to go
• 1:04:40
  through something as severe as that.
• 1:04:42
  I hope if we're smart enough, if we're wise enough and we start
• 1:04:45
  making heroic choices sooner, we can soften that.
• 1:04:52
  But my experience was that we're really going into a very
• 1:04:55
  difficult time. But this time is seminally
• 1:05:00
  important. It's really critical.
• 1:05:02
  And it's, while it's a time of great challenge, it's also a
• 1:05:08
  time of great grace because we're kind of, we're offloading
• 1:05:12
  the sins of our fathers exponentially.
• 1:05:16
  And the, the time is a time of exponential acceleration of
• 1:05:21
  development individually and collectively.
• 1:05:24
  It's it's a. It's a beautiful vision on the
• 1:05:27
  other side And, and, and one of the, I mean, it was one of the
• 1:05:34
  most moving parts. Maybe the most moving part was
• 1:05:37
  when you got to actually experience what it was like to
• 1:05:39
  be the future human. Yeah, you know, and how it
• 1:05:45
  changed your sight for a moment too, with you're experiencing
• 1:05:50
  what how the future human would actually see.
• 1:05:54
  And you called that diamond vision in the Yeah.
• 1:05:58
  It's not just a change in the human heart, though it is.
• 1:06:00
  And it's not just a change in the human mind, but it's a
• 1:06:04
  change of our entire sensory equipment.
• 1:06:08
  We're kind of conditioned to believe that our senses are a
• 1:06:12
  function of mechanics, just biological, electrical
• 1:06:15
  mechanics. But my experience is that that's
• 1:06:18
  not true. Our mechanical system is
• 1:06:21
  animated by consciousness and when we are handling much more
• 1:06:25
  consciousness than we have been in the past.
• 1:06:28
  I experienced as you mentioned, that the diamond vision, it was
• 1:06:31
  the last, the very end of the last session of the 20 year
• 1:06:36
  journey about I experienced a hyper intensification of my
• 1:06:41
  visual field. It was not a hallucination.
• 1:06:46
  It was just a hyper acuity sitting with a 1000 times more
• 1:06:50
  precision than I had ever experienced before in my life.
• 1:06:54
  And it lasted 10 minutes. And at the end of that 10
• 1:06:58
  minutes, I'm, that's when I and I went back to my ordinary
• 1:07:01
  normal vision. I began to realize that I was
• 1:07:04
  seeing through the eyes of the future human that all of our
• 1:07:07
  sensory life is being transformed.
• 1:07:10
  Our heart, our mind, our energetic body, but our senses
• 1:07:16
  are being transformed. It's an open-ended potential for
• 1:07:19
  development. Yeah.
• 1:07:20
  Yeah. And you, you describe that so
• 1:07:22
  well in the book. I mean, that was that was a part
• 1:07:25
  of the book where I just knew it was the truth and it just
• 1:07:29
  absolutely lit up my whole spoke to you.
• 1:07:32
  Because you know. You know, from your own words,
• 1:07:35
  you know I do. I, I, I, I, I haven't
• 1:07:38
  experienced what it feels like to be the future human.
• 1:07:44
  But, you know, as I've covered on the podcast, you know, I
• 1:07:49
  covered the book the order of time.
• 1:07:51
  And, you know, time is an illusion when it comes to source
• 1:07:54
  as it is so right. Time works very differently in
• 1:07:57
  source, but it's just wrong. So true.
• 1:08:02
  And, you know, one of the things that that we do know about just
• 1:08:07
  the physical reality we're in is that our senses are very dull
• 1:08:13
  compared to many animals. You know, we actually see very
• 1:08:18
  little of the reality that's even in this room.
• 1:08:22
  You know, we're not seeing infrared, we're not seeing
• 1:08:24
  electromagnetic fields, but we know it's here.
• 1:08:29
  And they're, you know, we know that when birds are flying away
• 1:08:34
  from, you know, a typhoon really quickly, they're they're seeing
• 1:08:38
  the electromagnetic fields. It's it's a really, it's a
• 1:08:42
  really cool experience that you had because, you know, humanity
• 1:08:47
  is built for evolutionary speed without a doubt.
• 1:08:50
  I mean, Homo sapiens have been here for 300,000 years and have
• 1:08:54
  changed way more than any other animal that I can think of in
• 1:08:58
  terms of our form 300,000 years ago to our form today.
• 1:09:03
  Just to put a fine point on this, you know, I ask you last
• 1:09:07
  note night over dinner, you just being a tech tech optimist and a
• 1:09:11
  long time tech entrepreneur, if you see it as a kind of
• 1:09:15
  mechanical upgrade. Just like I'm wearing contact
• 1:09:19
  lenses -6.5 and this I -6 and this I the future of contact
• 1:09:24
  lenses where you can just, you can zoom in, you can see much
• 1:09:30
  more detail. But you actually, you actually
• 1:09:32
  said no. I actually saw it as a
• 1:09:34
  biological upgrade that just our biology changes.
• 1:09:38
  Yeah, Are in a higher fundamental form, is evolving in
• 1:09:43
  time. Yeah.
• 1:09:44
  And now I understand some of this in the course in the
• 1:09:47
  context of reincarnation. So my first book was on
• 1:09:50
  reincarnation. My position is that I think we
• 1:09:52
  just have an abundance of empirical data now that we
• 1:09:56
  didn't have 50 years ago. We have it now.
• 1:09:59
  It's just it's a fact of nature. We don't understand how it
• 1:10:03
  works. We don't know how learning is
• 1:10:06
  lifted out of our dying body and how it encodes into another
• 1:10:10
  body. We don't know the physics of
• 1:10:12
  reincarnation. But we know enough about the
• 1:10:15
  phenomenology of the continuity of consciousness that we have
• 1:10:18
  reasons to infer that it's just true.
• 1:10:21
  And so my understanding of that, that reincarnation is simply the
• 1:10:26
  higher octave of evolution. So evolution evolves species,
• 1:10:30
  but at some point it evolves. Nature has figured out a way to
• 1:10:34
  evolve individuals within certain species.
• 1:10:38
  And so then we have the, you know, nature is always rolling
• 1:10:41
  its learning forward, and it rolls as learning forward in
• 1:10:45
  groups, and then it rolls as learning forward with
• 1:10:48
  individuals. So to me, reincarnation, the
• 1:10:53
  more I've thought about it, the more I kind of see that
• 1:10:57
  reincarnation is about learning. It's just about learning.
• 1:11:00
  The classic understanding of reincarnation in the Eastern
• 1:11:03
  traditions or in even in the Western mystical traditions is
• 1:11:08
  you grow, you learn, you grow, you learn, you become wiser,
• 1:11:11
  kinder. Eventually you achieve a state
• 1:11:15
  called samadhi or realization, you know, spiritual awakening.
• 1:11:21
  And then when you achieve that state, then you can leave the
• 1:11:24
  system. You you leave samsara, you leave
• 1:11:27
  continuity of cyclic existence. You and you have the privilege
• 1:11:31
  of resting in some off planet paradise, whether the Buddha
• 1:11:35
  world or heaven or the garden. But what emerged in my sessions
• 1:11:43
  was something different, and that is achieving realization,
• 1:11:50
  recognizing that you're being is divine at core.
• 1:11:54
  It's grounded in a universal consciousness.
• 1:11:57
  That is the consciousness of life itself and the creative
• 1:12:01
  consciousness of the universe that all of life is, is centered
• 1:12:05
  and and the manifestation of that reality.
• 1:12:08
  That's a very important breakthrough, but that's only
• 1:12:12
  half of the circle. The other half of the circle is
• 1:12:15
  the incarnation of that awareness and living it inside
• 1:12:19
  human existence literally be making heaven on earth.
• 1:12:23
  And I think we've been incarnating, we've been evolving
• 1:12:28
  and gestating the future human for hundreds of thousands of
• 1:12:31
  years. But now we've reached a point
• 1:12:36
  where the gestation is completing its cycle.
• 1:12:39
  And now we're entering into the time of Labor.
• 1:12:42
  The time of Labor is a dangerous time.
• 1:12:45
  It's a very painful time, but it's time for this child to be
• 1:12:48
  born. And in another session, in a
• 1:12:54
  session that I called the diamond soul, the birth of the
• 1:12:56
  diamond soul, I experienced all my former lives coming into me,
• 1:13:00
  just coming in very quickly. And then they seemed to hit
• 1:13:04
  critical mass. They merged and they hit
• 1:13:07
  critical mass, and they fused. And when they fused, there was
• 1:13:11
  an explosion of diamond light out of my heart, and I was
• 1:13:15
  catapulted into a state of exquisite transpersonal ecstasy.
• 1:13:23
  I was an individual, but I was an individual beyond any frame
• 1:13:27
  of reference I'd never known before.
• 1:13:29
  And I think what I was being shown in the teaching that
• 1:13:32
  unfolded that I was being shown, this is where humanity is being
• 1:13:36
  taken. This is where reincarnation is
• 1:13:37
  taking us. Soon, eventually, usually, you
• 1:13:41
  know, you die, you return to the soul, you're Incarnate, you get
• 1:13:44
  individual, you return to the soul, individual.
• 1:13:48
  And we just keep this up for thousands and thousands and
• 1:13:51
  thousands of years. But the eventual direction is
• 1:13:55
  our soul, which is the consciousness that pulls all of
• 1:14:00
  our lives experiences. Eventually the soul emerges
• 1:14:05
  inside human existence so that the soul wakes up inside the
• 1:14:10
  body. And we know ourselves not to be
• 1:14:13
  100 year old being, but to be 100,000 year old being.
• 1:14:17
  And when that awakens, of course, we've had relationships
• 1:14:21
  with thousands and thousands of people, which just and we've
• 1:14:25
  been many thousands of people. We've been black white, we've
• 1:14:29
  been poor, rich, we've been everything in history.
• 1:14:33
  And when the soul awakens in us, it opens up this breath of
• 1:14:38
  compassion and a breath of understanding.
• 1:14:41
  And there it is truly the the birth of oneness within the
• 1:14:45
  human species. And so for me, as I've come to
• 1:14:49
  understand it, the future human, it is not a sci-fi imagination.
• 1:14:54
  You know, we don't have to go into, you know, stretch of the
• 1:14:56
  imagination to understand what it is.
• 1:14:58
  We just have to look at our history.
• 1:15:00
  With understanding our history, we've been building this
• 1:15:03
  Organism. And there is a summation point
• 1:15:07
  coming so that in order to make this transition, in order to
• 1:15:13
  survive our creative potential, which is emerging at this time
• 1:15:18
  in history, we need to grow up. And to grow up, it means sort of
• 1:15:24
  claiming our entire being, our soul being, and to just let that
• 1:15:30
  soul come forward and to shape our choices.
• 1:15:33
  And we can see signs of the soul beginning to emerge all over the
• 1:15:37
  place. Once you know what you're
• 1:15:39
  looking for, once you're looking to see it, Yeah.
• 1:15:42
  Yeah, I know that. You and I both share love for,
• 1:15:46
  for Michael Newton's books. You know, journey of souls is
• 1:15:49
  amazing and I completely also believe in reincarnation.
• 1:15:54
  I know it's I know it's true. I've seen, I've seen, I've seen
• 1:15:58
  in journeys for friends where they've experienced other lives
• 1:16:02
  very deeply. I know, know you've experienced
• 1:16:05
  that too, as a, as a new friend of mine.
• 1:16:07
  Thank you. And you know, the 111 critique,
• 1:16:14
  you know, although there's just overwhelming evidence for it is,
• 1:16:18
  well, why do we have this amnesia?
• 1:16:20
  You know, why do we need to relearn?
• 1:16:22
  And one thing that I've always said is, and I'm just curious
• 1:16:27
  how you, you think about this, you know, is that if you, you
• 1:16:31
  know, you're, you're, you've been a long time professor.
• 1:16:34
  If you, if you just took the students aside and said, hey,
• 1:16:37
  you know, I know you're really passionate about taking this
• 1:16:39
  course. I'm just going to give you all
• 1:16:40
  the answers. Don't worry about it.
• 1:16:41
  You'll make an A. They would, they would feel
• 1:16:44
  cheated. They'd be like, wait, hold on.
• 1:16:47
  So part of the amnesia is like to rediscover how to be a good
• 1:16:53
  human being, to rediscover how to love, to find what your
• 1:16:59
  meaning is in this lifetime. When you find it again, it gives
• 1:17:03
  you boundless energy. That's how I look at the book
• 1:17:05
  Men's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankel.
• 1:17:07
  It's, you know, he found it and then he was able to go through 4
• 1:17:11
  concentration camps and come off the other side of that and
• 1:17:14
  invent an entire field of psychology called logo therapy.
• 1:17:19
  But the, the interesting thing about the vision you got there
• 1:17:25
  is that of, of, of what that diamond soul is going to be like
• 1:17:30
  that, that we're, you know, the diamond makers like pushing our
• 1:17:35
  soul being embodied in our physicality for the future
• 1:17:39
  human, where we get access to all that knowledge.
• 1:17:42
  It's, it's very interesting intersection with where we're at
• 1:17:46
  with the exponential of exponential curves that we're
• 1:17:48
  in. And it's one of those moments,
• 1:17:51
  you know, whether it's Voltaire or Uncle Ben from Spider Man,
• 1:17:54
  with great power comes great responsibility.
• 1:17:57
  Yeah. And it is, it is that it is that
• 1:18:00
  time where, you know, I know you read my, my, my science fiction
• 1:18:06
  novella, the Lattice, which I, which I gave you last night.
• 1:18:09
  And, you know, thank you for already reading it.
• 1:18:12
  Yeah, fun. It's great and beautiful.
• 1:18:15
  Well, thank you so much. That means that means so much
• 1:18:17
  coming from you. I, I actually discussed it on
• 1:18:20
  episode 27 of the podcast and kind of decode sections of it
• 1:18:24
  and yeah, give give some shout outs to to different people in
• 1:18:29
  it. The lattice was really meant to
• 1:18:31
  be a positive vision for how humanity would awaken so we
• 1:18:34
  don't have to go through this trauma.
• 1:18:37
  I hope I. Hope that's true, Yeah.
• 1:18:39
  And. I all my.
• 1:18:40
  Heart. I hope it's true, yeah.
• 1:18:41
  And I. I well, I, I do too.
• 1:18:43
  And I, I really think that, you know, our whole future reality
• 1:18:49
  and future, I think it's all probabilities like quantum
• 1:18:53
  physics, right? Yeah.
• 1:18:54
  And if you study quantum physics, people like Robert
• 1:18:57
  Lanza and biocentrism, reincarnation syncs completely
• 1:19:02
  with that too, because the energy doesn't leave as you die.
• 1:19:06
  You know, we're, we're all just light and energy at our core.
• 1:19:09
  We actually know that through quantum physics.
• 1:19:11
  We know that we're in a field through Higgs boson, you know,
• 1:19:14
  all the work they've done at at CERN.
• 1:19:16
  And we're finding out more and more about why quantum
• 1:19:19
  entanglement is real and what is this connective fabric of the
• 1:19:23
  universe of which we all men understand. 4%, we call that
• 1:19:26
  matter. We don't know what 96 percent
• 1:19:28
  is, I think conscious. Business is a field.
• 1:19:30
  I do too. And the soul is a field.
• 1:19:32
  Yeah. And I think it when we take
• 1:19:34
  field theory and apply it to the soul, it makes a lot of sense.
• 1:19:38
  Yeah. But let me address that
• 1:19:40
  discontinuity. Why the why do we forget?
• 1:19:43
  Yeah. And so here's the here's the
• 1:19:44
  thought experiment. Yeah.
• 1:19:46
  I tell my students, if you were God.
• 1:19:48
  Yeah. Which many of them think they
• 1:19:50
  are so. But so it's an easy if you were
• 1:19:53
  God and you were designing a system, you wanted to maximize
• 1:19:56
  growth and you could take an Organism and give it 100,000
• 1:19:59
  years of life. And then at the end of that
• 1:20:02
  period you would examine it and see how much have you learned.
• 1:20:05
  That's class AB. Example B is you take the same
• 1:20:10
  100,000 years but you break it up into 100 year segments.
• 1:20:14
  And in each of those 100 years, you change their position in
• 1:20:17
  life, Male, female, rich, poor, you change it all at different
• 1:20:21
  things. At the end of that same 100,000
• 1:20:23
  years, which one do you think would have learned more?
• 1:20:26
  And the class always chooses the second because.
• 1:20:30
  And so the discontinuity is part of the the conditions, which
• 1:20:35
  makes accelerated learning possible.
• 1:20:38
  So by entering into by forgetting and doing something
• 1:20:42
  different and then coming back and assimilating it and then
• 1:20:44
  doing something different, it's the differences and the
• 1:20:47
  forgetting that it's the forgetting that makes possible
• 1:20:49
  the differences. Totally agree.
• 1:20:51
  Which then makes accelerated development.
• 1:20:53
  But that doesn't mean that the forgetting is an abiding and
• 1:20:58
  eternal condition. I think there is a time of
• 1:21:01
  remembering when we die. But I think in history there is
• 1:21:05
  a time of remembering. There is a time of
• 1:21:07
  consolidating. So I think that with, you know,
• 1:21:10
  there have been a number of movies that have played with the
• 1:21:12
  idea, what if we were to remember our previous lives?
• 1:21:15
  Wouldn't that be chaotic? And you know, wouldn't that just
• 1:21:18
  be confusing? And sure, we play with that, but
• 1:21:21
  that doesn't mean that nature's design doesn't involve
• 1:21:25
  remembering at some point in our evolutionary story.
• 1:21:29
  So the Buddha, the story of his awakening is he went through the
• 1:21:32
  four watches of the night. And in the first watch of the
• 1:21:35
  night, he saw all of his former lives.
• 1:21:39
  Second watch, he saw the karma, the cause and effect that strung
• 1:21:43
  them together in a meaningful sequence.
• 1:21:46
  In the third watch of the night, he he saw the undoing of that
• 1:21:51
  karma, the releasing of the karma.
• 1:21:53
  And in the fourth night of the night, the watch of the night,
• 1:21:56
  he awakened into full consciousness.
• 1:21:59
  So I think in the remembering of our former lives is part of the
• 1:22:03
  natural process of awakening our full spiritual potential.
• 1:22:08
  It's just owning what we are. Yeah.
• 1:22:11
  Yeah, I just think I, I, I, I think that's beautifully said.
• 1:22:14
  And I just, I think it's interesting that it's happening
• 1:22:18
  at a time we're, we're in this exponential of exponentials
• 1:22:21
  because once, once you're, you know, technology has always been
• 1:22:24
  an exponential that now we're in that upward part of the slope
• 1:22:28
  and it's just going to continue to go straight up.
• 1:22:31
  And that's what, you know, that's, that's what the lattice
• 1:22:34
  is all about. And, you know, I cover the years
• 1:22:37
  2030 through 2085 and it's a vision of like what happens when
• 1:22:40
  humanity unites and then all the things that we go through.
• 1:22:45
  And one of the big reveals in the book is that this has
• 1:22:49
  happened throughout time and space where a species has gotten
• 1:22:54
  to a point of development where had to choose collectively, the
• 1:23:00
  collective psyche had to choose love over fear.
• 1:23:04
  And you know, we have, you know, the diamond maker part of your
• 1:23:09
  book is such a is so, is so, so beautifully said.
• 1:23:14
  And you know, we've gone through, you know, Homo sapiens
• 1:23:17
  are derivative of a hominids who have been around for 4,000,000
• 1:23:19
  years. And so, you know, we're, we've
• 1:23:21
  been around for around 300,000 years and we've gone through a
• 1:23:25
  real hardening process already. I mean, you know, for .1% of our
• 1:23:29
  evolutionary time, we've had electricity.
• 1:23:32
  Yeah. For 99.9% of the time we
• 1:23:34
  haven't, you know, Can you imagine, you know, your life
• 1:23:37
  without electricity? Yeah.
• 1:23:38
  Today I experienced that, You know, we're talking about that
• 1:23:41
  last night. I experienced that for eight
• 1:23:43
  days in the Grand Canyon. Yeah.
• 1:23:45
  It was marvelous. What what happened in the Grand
• 1:23:47
  Canyon and the bonds I made with with friends there, like Michael
• 1:23:50
  Collins, who's been on this podcast, amazing documentary
• 1:23:54
  filmmaker on intuition. That's a great episode.
• 1:23:57
  But I knew I was coming back to electricity and I didn't you
• 1:24:00
  know, it wasn't like it was gone forever.
• 1:24:02
  It was gone for eight days. It's a beautiful vision because
• 1:24:07
  we're, we're going to have technology that's so powerful
• 1:24:12
  that the vision I received in, in, in, in my journey that led
• 1:24:18
  to love conquers fear is that God a, wants us to make it to
• 1:24:26
  this, it, this evolutionary leap.
• 1:24:28
  And B, once we do, then we get to propagate the universe with
• 1:24:34
  the wisdom of love, conquering fear and the whole universe then
• 1:24:40
  blossoms, you know, and that we're, we're one of the species
• 1:24:45
  that God has chosen to go on that journey if we choose.
• 1:24:51
  But it's, it's, it's really a, it's a, it's a very fateful
• 1:24:55
  choice because, you know, we, we, we already have like
• 1:25:00
  existential risk today. You know, you and I talked about
• 1:25:03
  nuclear weapons last night and, and I ask you, how many of
• 1:25:07
  today's arsenal would it take to essentially destroy almost all
• 1:25:12
  of humanity? And it's done to a nuclear.
• 1:25:14
  It was 2. Percent, it's 2.
• 1:25:16
  Percent with 50 times them out. And so this this hijacking of
• 1:25:22
  the amygdala to keep us in a fear state and keep us
• 1:25:26
  separated, humanity has no choice but to transcend that it
• 1:25:31
  it has to transcend that there there's no other way.
• 1:25:34
  That is one thing I am 100% certain of through my visions
• 1:25:39
  around technology that that we're gonna be, I mean, we're
• 1:25:44
  we're gonna have artificial general intelligence in the next
• 1:25:47
  few years. That's gonna lead to artificial
• 1:25:50
  super intelligence. That's gonna lead to
• 1:25:53
  intelligence that'll appear God like to us today.
• 1:25:56
  Yeah. And that's all gonna happen in
• 1:25:58
  the next 10 to 15 years. Yeah.
• 1:26:00
  And so that is the diamond maker moment.
• 1:26:03
  Like you and I are living it right now.
• 1:26:06
  It's in this lifetime. The nub.
• 1:26:08
  For me is if this intelligence is enacted by an awakened heart,
• 1:26:17
  we're all safe and we all grow. If that intelligence is enacted
• 1:26:21
  with a shrunken heart or a self-centered heart, then we die
• 1:26:27
  and we go into extinction. So one of the ways I translate
• 1:26:31
  the courage versus fear, love versus fear is small.
• 1:26:37
  Large fear makes us keeps us small or our smallness gives us
• 1:26:42
  reasons to fear. To allow ourselves to become
• 1:26:46
  large is so allow us to enter into oneness and to allow us to
• 1:26:50
  enter into love. And once the heart opens into
• 1:26:52
  oneness, then the world is safe from our intelligence.
• 1:26:57
  If we, if we don't open up into that and the world is threatened
• 1:27:01
  by our intelligence and we bring destruction into the world.
• 1:27:05
  It seems to me that the acceleration that we're in of
• 1:27:11
  AI, quantum computing, robotics, brain computer interfaces, this
• 1:27:15
  chase to think that we can create consciousness in machines
• 1:27:24
  is going to lead to more of a discovery of what our actual
• 1:27:28
  reality is. And so, for example, take
• 1:27:33
  reincarnation or take that, you and I would both agree, given
• 1:27:40
  the journeys we've had and, and probably anybody listening to
• 1:27:44
  this who's had really transcended journeys with
• 1:27:47
  psychedelics or had a near death experience or had just a
• 1:27:51
  spontaneous awakening, I mean, there's lots of different ways
• 1:27:54
  to get that knowledge. They if that's the, if that's
• 1:28:00
  the real reality, then for sure that's going to be discovered
• 1:28:04
  because it's, it's not just limited to the world of forum,
• 1:28:09
  all the amazing discoveries we're going to make.
• 1:28:11
  I mean, quantum physics is already leading to this
• 1:28:16
  knowledge of, Oh my gosh, the ancient Mystics thousands of
• 1:28:20
  years ago were. How did they know that
• 1:28:22
  everything is connected and that we're seeing everything is
• 1:28:25
  connected, but there's no way they could have known that
• 1:28:27
  scientifically. Yeah, the science didn't even
• 1:28:29
  exist. Even the the way to even talk
• 1:28:32
  about it in a scientific way, it didn't even exist.
• 1:28:34
  Yeah, wasn't. There in the collective.
• 1:28:36
  Psyche, right? But they saw it.
• 1:28:38
  And they saw it through the disciplined use of
• 1:28:41
  consciousness, through meditation processes, through
• 1:28:45
  the deep, deep introspection, which most of the world doesn't
• 1:28:48
  have the time or the inclination to do.
• 1:28:51
  And that's one of the reasons I think psychedelics have a
• 1:28:53
  tremendous there an evolutionary accelerator, because now even
• 1:28:59
  people who don't want to give their entire life over to
• 1:29:02
  meditation processes, and there is a great value to doing that.
• 1:29:05
  And psychedelics don't negate in any way that value.
• 1:29:10
  But as a supplement, it can give ordinary laypersons a temporary
• 1:29:16
  glimpse into the some of the underlying structure of the
• 1:29:19
  world. And therefore, it can sort of
• 1:29:23
  help us accelerate an opening to those deep truths which the
• 1:29:28
  religious traditions, spiritual traditions have been speaking
• 1:29:31
  about for millennia. But now I can have a taste of it
• 1:29:35
  so that it rings true to me. And I understand how I can
• 1:29:38
  participate in that process. Yeah.
• 1:29:41
  And, and once you glimpse that, it is transformational and one
• 1:29:45
  of the things that's super fascinating and I do not believe
• 1:29:49
  is any mistake. I very much believe in the book
• 1:29:52
  the Celestine Prophecy that things things happen for reason
• 1:29:55
  and show up at at moments in time for reason.
• 1:29:59
  And the divine is both very playful, sometimes hard on us.
• 1:30:02
  I mean, there's there's all, all different ways that the divine
• 1:30:06
  shows up for us. I see synchronicities sometimes
• 1:30:09
  multiple times a day. Yeah, sometimes it really hits
• 1:30:12
  me over the head. Sometimes it's just a funny
• 1:30:14
  little nudge. We're in that shift where
• 1:30:17
  there's a consciousness awakening going on at the same
• 1:30:20
  time, you know, so you've got, you've got the tulipsy tapes,
• 1:30:25
  which has been wildly popular, you know, at one point was more
• 1:30:28
  popular than than the Joe Rogan show.
• 1:30:32
  I, I encourage you to, to listen to season 2, which just wrapped
• 1:30:35
  up. It's, it's amazing.
• 1:30:36
  I'll do season. 2 and I'm gonna show.
• 1:30:38
  You that segment from intuition before before you leave with
• 1:30:42
  with Michael Collins cuz that's gonna be amazing.
• 1:30:44
  We're supporting that documentary yeah and good.
• 1:30:47
  So proud to be. And so how do you think about
• 1:30:51
  that, Like the consciousness awakening, you know, given that
• 1:30:54
  this has been such a huge part of your life's work And what do
• 1:30:59
  you see happening now that that kind of validates or invalidates
• 1:31:04
  what I just said in terms of how you see the consciousness
• 1:31:06
  awakening occurring? Well, you're right, there are so
• 1:31:09
  many factors that are coming to a head now.
• 1:31:12
  If you're paying attention, if you choose to pay attention,
• 1:31:14
  there's so much going on. A lot of people aren't paying
• 1:31:17
  attention. They walk around in mall
• 1:31:19
  consciousness or they're Super Bowl consciousness and they're
• 1:31:22
  just not paying attention. But if you're paying attention,
• 1:31:26
  the work that's being done in, in hard sciences and physics
• 1:31:29
  and, and cognitive sciences and psychedelics and near death
• 1:31:33
  episode research, which is a tremendous accelerator of our
• 1:31:36
  understanding, you know, and reincarnation research, so much
• 1:31:39
  interest, consciousness research, consciousness
• 1:31:42
  research. The heat's being turned up
• 1:31:43
  underneath us. We're going from a, a slow low
• 1:31:46
  boil simmer where we're moving up to a high boil.
• 1:31:49
  Now there are counter processes too.
• 1:31:53
  There's tremendous greed it, it that runs through our culture.
• 1:31:57
  There's tremendous fear that runs through our culture,
• 1:32:00
  paranoia, this, this a tremendous kind of scarcity
• 1:32:04
  consciousness where we're we're not sure that we're going to get
• 1:32:07
  enough tremendous inequalities that are being almost hardened
• 1:32:12
  into our culture right now. So it's, it's a tremendous kind
• 1:32:16
  of confrontation of very destructive restrictive
• 1:32:24
  processes and very liberating processes.
• 1:32:28
  And I think our future is going to be determined by which of
• 1:32:33
  those processes we listen to more, which are we going to pay
• 1:32:37
  most attention to, which will we invest in, which will we give
• 1:32:41
  ourselves over to? Cuz right now, you know, really,
• 1:32:46
  if we had to take a look, if you really look at all of the
• 1:32:49
  processes in the world, you could make a very powerful case
• 1:32:52
  at the destructive processes that keep us small and in fear
• 1:32:56
  are overwhelming the, the love processes, you know, the, the
• 1:33:01
  bigger processes. But personally, I'm with you,
• 1:33:05
  I'm with you. I think that, as Jung said,
• 1:33:08
  nature supports growth. And this is our growth.
• 1:33:12
  We're, we're coming into a time when extinction is a tremendous
• 1:33:18
  motivator. And I think we're coming into a
• 1:33:20
  near extinction time. We'll have tremendous motivation
• 1:33:24
  to become larger more than we are now and I think for
• 1:33:30
  ourselves, but even more I think we'll do it for our children and
• 1:33:34
  our children's children. And if you, if you really love
• 1:33:37
  your children, then you're going to love all the children in the
• 1:33:41
  world. You just have to love.
• 1:33:42
  You can't. Can't not love.
• 1:33:44
  The children, we just have to make this transition.
• 1:33:47
  We have to make the world safe for everyone.
• 1:33:50
  We have to rebalance and redistribute and take us
• 1:33:53
  forward. And, and in that process, I
• 1:33:58
  think we will experience the fruition of our own destiny
• 1:34:03
  welling up inside of us. And as we feel that fruition
• 1:34:06
  over time, it will just become, we really, truly will,
• 1:34:12
  experiencing an awakening of our heart, an awakening of our mind,
• 1:34:16
  an awakening of true peace, heaven on earth.
• 1:34:20
  And it's not gonna stop with our death.
• 1:34:23
  It's gonna continue and it's gonna continue.
• 1:34:26
  And I think this, this really is a pivot point in history.
• 1:34:31
  I think psychedelics have a significant role to play in this
• 1:34:34
  pivot point in my discipline, which is philosophy.
• 1:34:37
  Most of the work is being done in by psychologists and clinical
• 1:34:40
  people, but I think it has an enormous impact on philosophical
• 1:34:45
  thought, cosmological thought. I've often thought, I wish that
• 1:34:49
  I had degrees in physics and astrophysics because if I had
• 1:34:55
  had that training, the universe could have taught me so much
• 1:35:00
  more than it could teach me with the background that I had.
• 1:35:05
  Because, and I really look forward when we begin to have
• 1:35:11
  research protocols where we take our best scientists and we take
• 1:35:14
  our best artists, our best, and we put them through the
• 1:35:18
  initiatory processes that psychedelics make possible.
• 1:35:22
  And of course, what we're already seeing it, it enhances
• 1:35:25
  creativity. It enhances our ability to solve
• 1:35:27
  problems. We have breakthroughs in these
• 1:35:30
  states. We can concretize those insights
• 1:35:32
  into practical outcomes. And all of this, I think,
• 1:35:35
  contributes to the opportunity for the next generation to live
• 1:35:40
  better in the past generation. Yeah, that's the challenge
• 1:35:44
  before us. Yeah, it and.
• 1:35:46
  And it is it is a big challenge. I don't want to make light of
• 1:35:49
  it. I mean, I know that one of the
• 1:35:51
  reasons when when I reached out to you that you said yes to be
• 1:35:56
  on love conquer, Sir. Why I spoke to you is you said
• 1:36:00
  to me, you know, if we, if we, if we lose corporate American
• 1:36:04
  this, you know, then then we're not gonna make it.
• 1:36:08
  But we win corporate America. We will.
• 1:36:11
  And the the the best episode of Love Conquers fear to really
• 1:36:16
  dive into that was episode 3 with Jason Carp, who'll be here
• 1:36:19
  tonight for the dinner. I'm very glad you get to meet
• 1:36:21
  him. I'm glad you're also a big, huge
• 1:36:23
  chocolate fan. We were too before, before we
• 1:36:26
  knew him and his wife. You know, Jason talks about like
• 1:36:30
  corporations have to graduate from putting profit over people.
• 1:36:35
  I mean, we, we are wired the way we are because of the amount of
• 1:36:42
  evolutionary time that we've dealt with scarcity that you and
• 1:36:45
  I cannot imagine. And there's still countries to
• 1:36:47
  be clear, that are dealing with this whole scarcity.
• 1:36:49
  I cover cover Chad, quite a bit on this podcast, which has a GDP
• 1:36:53
  of $660 a person versus our $85,800 a person.
• 1:36:58
  Yeah. And like start out actually love
• 1:37:01
  conquer sphere the book with with with covering Chad and and
• 1:37:06
  and the hope for Chad. We, we do live in a place right
• 1:37:10
  now, at least in the world of form, where corporations are
• 1:37:15
  trying to keep us hyper addicted, hyper addicted to
• 1:37:19
  social media content that is harmful to our our psyche, our
• 1:37:25
  individual psyche and collective, you know, media
• 1:37:29
  constantly pushing us the the, the worst dystopian, you know,
• 1:37:34
  the, the stuff that just keeps us in this height and.
• 1:37:37
  Fear here shrunk small, competitive, aggressive.
• 1:37:41
  Yes. And, and then the toxins in our
• 1:37:44
  food and the pharmaceutical complex and, and look, there's
• 1:37:48
  lots of people and food doing, doing amazing work.
• 1:37:51
  Lots of people in pharmaceuticals doing amazing
• 1:37:53
  work. It's not like and and lots of
• 1:37:55
  people in corporations, you know, they're doing amazing
• 1:37:58
  work. And as you know, I've been part
• 1:38:00
  of the conscious capitalism movement, which, you know, John
• 1:38:03
  Mackey was the Co founder of. And you know that that heart
• 1:38:08
  shift in corporate America. The way I see it playing out as
• 1:38:13
  a as an entrepreneur is that the next generation really is
• 1:38:20
  demanding it. Yeah, they're they're really
• 1:38:23
  demanding it. If you look at the the youngest
• 1:38:25
  generation, their social media uses going down, their alcohol
• 1:38:28
  use is plummeting. And they're, they're they're
• 1:38:31
  really are like Neo and the Matrix.
• 1:38:33
  They're just like going to stop the bullets that are like, OK,
• 1:38:37
  you know, this is not the world that I want.
• 1:38:41
  And I know that you share a love for this, this youngest
• 1:38:45
  generation and that you said on the leading edge call that we
• 1:38:50
  had that God sends in the brightest troops.
• 1:38:53
  When the going gets tough, God sends in the A-Team, you know,
• 1:38:57
  and they are extraordinary. I mean, I've watched them as
• 1:38:59
  college students. They're just, they're so
• 1:39:02
  extraordinary. They have such capacity, such
• 1:39:04
  natural understanding of things that I had to struggle years to
• 1:39:10
  understand and just. And the talent is extraordinary
• 1:39:14
  and the spiritual depth is extraordinary.
• 1:39:17
  Yeah, Yeah. I feel like with, with our own
• 1:39:19
  kids, with, with Rachel and Yuzu, that we're raising little
• 1:39:22
  Buddhas, you know, like, like I'm kind of sometimes I just
• 1:39:26
  feel totally, totally outmatched, you know, I'm just
• 1:39:29
  trying to keep up with them and be, be as good as they are, you
• 1:39:33
  know? Yeah, because their, their level
• 1:39:35
  of wisdom is so, so beautiful. You know, I made the mistake
• 1:39:40
  with with with Rachel at one point calling her the wrong
• 1:39:44
  generation, calling her millennial.
• 1:39:46
  She's like, dad, I'm not a millennial.
• 1:39:47
  Like she's like, look at the difference.
• 1:39:49
  And and I looked at the difference.
• 1:39:51
  I actually used AI to like analyze the difference between
• 1:39:54
  her generation and and I was like, wow, you're better.
• 1:39:58
  Actually, your generation really is better.
• 1:40:00
  Like it's actually codifiably better.
• 1:40:03
  You know, in terms of the wiring and users generation, probably
• 1:40:07
  be even better than that. So it's, I think that I think
• 1:40:12
  the way I see it playing out at least is we're gonna hit a
• 1:40:17
  precipice point in our evolutionary history and in our
• 1:40:22
  technological progress where we're gonna be able to see
• 1:40:30
  abundance on the horizon. We're gonna be able to see it
• 1:40:33
  and it's gonna force a choice and I think you're going to see
• 1:40:38
  it happen. Both tops down leaders have a
• 1:40:40
  heart shift and bottoms up to be like we just can't play the
• 1:40:45
  scarcity 0 sum fear based game or we will destroy ourselves.
• 1:40:51
  And, you know, you think about, you know, the Cuban Missile
• 1:40:54
  Crisis, which was a, which was a very scary event, but, you know,
• 1:41:00
  one brave person made the fateful choice.
• 1:41:02
  And, and, you know, I had, I had a Pippa Maltgrun on the podcast
• 1:41:09
  and she described that really well.
• 1:41:12
  You'll, you'll be able to you, you haven't seen that episode
• 1:41:14
  yet, but it'll, it'll go live really soon.
• 1:41:17
  And her dad was in the room during that moment.
• 1:41:20
  Really. He was, he was in the room he
• 1:41:23
  worked for, for 4 presidents in his in his career.
• 1:41:27
  And, you know, it ended in hugs. Yeah, it ended in hugs.
• 1:41:31
  And, and I think that the technology is gonna progress so
• 1:41:37
  quickly and so astonishingly amazing in terms of its
• 1:41:42
  capability that it's gonna force us to make that that choice.
• 1:41:47
  And as you mentioned in that example, it's crisis that drove
• 1:41:51
  the condition that is true, that ended in hugs.
• 1:41:54
  And so there's a sense in which we are coming to a a telling
• 1:42:00
  time in history. We we are inheriting a crisis in
• 1:42:04
  nature that is of our own making, hundreds of years in the
• 1:42:10
  making and circumstantially. And it's like nobody's fault.
• 1:42:13
  But now it maybe becomes our fault.
• 1:42:15
  But there's a crisis brewing. And I think crisis has a role in
• 1:42:20
  taking us where we're going. The sooner we respond to that
• 1:42:23
  crisis and address it, I think the better.
• 1:42:28
  The fewer of our children have to die for us to make this
• 1:42:31
  transition. Yeah.
• 1:42:32
  Let's go back and dive into the book, OK, cuz there's so much
• 1:42:37
  there's so much we haven't covered and it's it's impossible
• 1:42:39
  to cover the entire book. I mean, it's, it really is a
• 1:42:43
  must read for people in my, in my very strong opinion, whether
• 1:42:49
  or not they have interest in psychedelics.
• 1:42:52
  Just you know what I, what I told you when I picked you up
• 1:42:55
  from the airport, I said, said you wouldn't be mad at me, is
• 1:42:58
  that you're willing to die to really get to this level of
• 1:43:03
  knowledge about what a reality was.
• 1:43:05
  And you said, well, actually I experienced many ego deaths,
• 1:43:09
  which is psychological death is actually harder than harder than
• 1:43:12
  physical death. Right.
• 1:43:13
  And that. That really sat with me a lot as
• 1:43:15
  I went. Because when you die.
• 1:43:17
  Physically, that's inside, you know that, You know your
• 1:43:20
  consciousness is going to survive.
• 1:43:22
  Yeah. But when you die consciously,
• 1:43:25
  when you die psychologically, it is a radical death.
• 1:43:29
  And then you are reborn into a different state of
• 1:43:33
  consciousness, a different set of capacities and so.
• 1:43:37
  So the the, the subtitle of your book, Diamonds from Heaven, you
• 1:43:42
  know, we've touched a little bit on the diamond sole, etcetera,
• 1:43:46
  but we haven't, we haven't really delved into diamond
• 1:43:49
  luminosity. Yeah, which is, which is, which
• 1:43:52
  is really beautiful and has so many synchronicities with
• 1:43:55
  quantum physics and the world of light that we come from.
• 1:43:58
  But won't we, why don't we dive into that a bit that.
• 1:44:01
  Really addresses what it was emerging in the last five years
• 1:44:05
  of my 20 year journey because there was levels at the personal
• 1:44:10
  mind, levels at the collective mind, levels at the archetypal
• 1:44:14
  layer of mind, and then levels at causal mind or causal
• 1:44:18
  oneness. So by the time I had reached
• 1:44:21
  that level and I received there was one year of extraordinary
• 1:44:26
  blessings in in causal reality. And, you know, experiences of
• 1:44:31
  oneness, of shunyata with Buddhist call shunyata,
• 1:44:35
  emptiness of self, experiences of cosmic love, the experience
• 1:44:40
  of the diamond soul. And I was like totally
• 1:44:45
  philosophically satiated. I thought, you know, I had been
• 1:44:49
  asked to give something in the ocean of suffering work, and I
• 1:44:52
  gave it, and I was more than rewarded for that.
• 1:44:56
  You already felt. Like you'd gotten so many
• 1:44:58
  blessings I have filled with. Blessings.
• 1:45:01
  But there was still five years to go.
• 1:45:03
  And I went I was taken into yet another cycle of death and
• 1:45:08
  rebirth. And it's it's not a repetition
• 1:45:10
  of ego death, but a different kind of death.
• 1:45:14
  And then suddenly when I came out of that death, I entered
• 1:45:21
  into a state of extraordinary hyper clarity, hyper reality,
• 1:45:27
  clear, clear beyond imagination, just extraordinary clear.
• 1:45:33
  I mean, you're just my mind fell open into a dimension of cosmic
• 1:45:39
  mind that was beyond anything I'd ever experienced before, not
• 1:45:43
  experienced light many times when you go through ego death,
• 1:45:47
  you often experience light in different stages is light.
• 1:45:50
  But it was as if all those earlier experiences of light
• 1:45:54
  were simply preparing me for this.
• 1:45:57
  And it was just it was just overwhelmingly beautiful.
• 1:46:04
  I won't say it's ecstatic because it's, it was ecstatic,
• 1:46:08
  but it's the most wonderful thing was the clarity just
• 1:46:12
  clear, clear. Just I began to understand what
• 1:46:25
  the Buddhists mean when they say when you experience this, it
• 1:46:29
  undoes thousands of years of living in the shadows of karma.
• 1:46:32
  It's it's outside of karma, outside of cause and effect.
• 1:46:36
  It's, it's a different reality and over the next five years and
• 1:46:41
  26 sessions, which is 1/3 of my entire journey, I only
• 1:46:46
  experienced diamond luminosity 4 times.
• 1:46:49
  When you touch a level of hyper pure consciousness or hyper
• 1:46:54
  clear, it triggers all sorts of detoxification in your
• 1:46:58
  psychophysical spiritual system. So when you, the first time I
• 1:47:03
  touched diamond luminosity, the next session, the opening line
• 1:47:09
  of the next session was today was spent entirely in the mud.
• 1:47:12
  You know, it's just triggers all sorts of detoxification.
• 1:47:15
  You have to process this in order to before you can get back
• 1:47:20
  into that diamond luminosity state.
• 1:47:22
  So it it opened up about once a year for four years.
• 1:47:26
  The 1st 2 episodes took me deeper and deeper into the
• 1:47:30
  diamond luminosity and then the last two episodes brought the
• 1:47:34
  diamond luminosity deeper and deeper into my being.
• 1:47:37
  It was like the diamond light was crunching itself into my
• 1:47:41
  physical form, into my emotional and and physical makeup.
• 1:47:45
  And that's why the very, very last session, at the very end,
• 1:47:48
  that gift of diamond vision was, I think this diamond luminosity
• 1:47:52
  getting so deeply it was affecting my physical senses.
• 1:47:56
  But something happened in the middle of that sequence, in the
• 1:48:00
  50th session, when I was in this as deep as I ever went into the
• 1:48:05
  diamond luminosity. So I was paid the price of
• 1:48:09
  getting there. And I was.
• 1:48:10
  I was resting in a state of exquisite ecstatic clarity.
• 1:48:17
  And then my physical field, my visual field turned 90° and
• 1:48:22
  something opened and I saw far into the distance, another
• 1:48:27
  reality far away. And I saw something that looked
• 1:48:33
  like galaxies. But that's the best my mind
• 1:48:35
  could do to put form to something that was a light
• 1:48:39
  domain. And a beam of light hit me from
• 1:48:43
  that reality and it completely shattered me.
• 1:48:46
  And I was in the Diamond state at that time, but this light
• 1:48:49
  completely shattered me. And it only lasted a couple of
• 1:48:52
  seconds. And as I was putting my mind
• 1:48:57
  back together and coming into the Diamond State, I I began to
• 1:49:02
  realize that it in one second it completely changed my
• 1:49:06
  understanding of what the journey is about and how reality
• 1:49:10
  is built. Because like many other
• 1:49:13
  misunderstandings that I had taken into this work, I thought
• 1:49:16
  the goal was to get to some destination.
• 1:49:20
  It's sometimes described as becoming one with God or
• 1:49:24
  entering the metacosmic void or there's some ultimate state or
• 1:49:29
  going home. And I had experienced oneness
• 1:49:32
  with God in many different forms and I experienced different
• 1:49:36
  manifestations of the void and, and I had experienced coming
• 1:49:40
  home repeatedly, but I always had had this sense that there is
• 1:49:46
  an endpoint to this journey, that if I reach this endpoint,
• 1:49:50
  all will be well. And in this I was in the
• 1:49:54
  condition of supreme all as well.
• 1:49:57
  But I learned that it's an infinite journey.
• 1:49:59
  It's an infinite progression. Even using this powerful
• 1:50:03
  methodology, I would never ever get to the end of the mystery of
• 1:50:10
  you might call it the of the divine.
• 1:50:12
  You might I call it the mind of the universe, the being of the
• 1:50:15
  universe, the creative intelligence of life.
• 1:50:17
  That's one of the reasons I would, if I were doing this
• 1:50:20
  journey over again, I would do it very differently because I've
• 1:50:24
  learned the goal is not to get to some end state.
• 1:50:28
  The goal is to open up and let in as much healing as you can.
• 1:50:33
  Let us as much insight as you can.
• 1:50:35
  Hold on. Grab as much of it as you can.
• 1:50:38
  Adjust your life. Live your life in in accordance
• 1:50:41
  with it. But it's, it's a, it's just
• 1:50:45
  changing your membrane, the balance of how you live in the
• 1:50:49
  context of infinite intelligence and infinite love becoming more
• 1:50:54
  available to it and more transparent to it.
• 1:50:58
  And of course this is done. This is what spiritual practice
• 1:51:00
  is. It's simply becoming more
• 1:51:02
  transparent to the reality that is.
• 1:51:05
  So I've learned it's, it's not an endpoint agenda.
• 1:51:09
  It's it's a transparency agenda. Yeah, that.
• 1:51:13
  That part of the book blasted me too, when I, when I saw it
• 1:51:19
  because and it, it, it, it influenced, you know, the
• 1:51:22
  lattice like, you know, God's, God's infinite game is the last
• 1:51:25
  part of the lattice. And I, I, I, I don't think that
• 1:51:31
  we'll ever fully understand the nature of God or the mind of the
• 1:51:35
  universe. Like I, I think it's so far
• 1:51:38
  beyond our comprehension. Yeah.
• 1:51:42
  You know, whatever was the force that made The Big Bang, Yeah,
• 1:51:48
  you know, state of no entropy, that boom, you know, every
• 1:51:51
  materialist has to deal with that miracle.
• 1:51:53
  Yeah, Yeah. It just I, I, I don't think it's
• 1:51:58
  possible for us to fully understand the nature of God.
• 1:52:01
  I don't think. I don't think we ever will.
• 1:52:04
  And, and, and that was, that was like the natural kind of
• 1:52:07
  conclusion point for, you know, when you reach that state where
• 1:52:11
  it's like, you know, you, you would, you'd, you'd put your
• 1:52:14
  body through a lot, put your mind through a lot, had done a
• 1:52:17
  lot of collective healing of the human psyche, really come back
• 1:52:23
  to tell the tale to humanity, which we all again owe you a
• 1:52:28
  great debt of gratitude for that.
• 1:52:30
  It's just like the people that open up the Drake Passage or the
• 1:52:33
  first people to go to the moon. I mean, you know, took great
• 1:52:36
  risk to advance our species and you know, that was that was it,
• 1:52:43
  right? That was the that was the that
• 1:52:44
  was the point where you're like, there is no end to this.
• 1:52:47
  If we take the. Very, very best of our species
• 1:52:51
  right now, the our most brilliant scientist and our most
• 1:52:56
  highly developed spiritual beings, you know.
• 1:52:59
  And then we imagine 100,000 years from now, which is a blink
• 1:53:04
  in divine evolutionary. Time.
• 1:53:06
  It's nothing 100,000. Years from now, imagine what
• 1:53:10
  we're gonna be capable of, not just in our concepts, but in
• 1:53:14
  what we will have actualized. And so if we just think back
• 1:53:18
  100,000 years or 300,000 years in the past, imagine Homo
• 1:53:24
  hominid dying and confronting this infinite intelligence, and
• 1:53:29
  how hard it would be for this being to take in the magnitude
• 1:53:33
  of this infinite intelligence. And now we're 300,000 years
• 1:53:37
  later, and we think because we have all these fancy theories
• 1:53:40
  and we know so much more than we did, then we can take in the
• 1:53:43
  magnitude of what this thing is and what it's doing.
• 1:53:46
  Just take ourselves forward a few 100,000 years and try to
• 1:53:51
  imagine what is going to be what, what this intelligence is
• 1:53:57
  going to be evoking in US in the emergence of continuing
• 1:54:01
  evolution forward. I mean, it's, it's an ongoing
• 1:54:04
  dramas, as you say in the book God's play.
• 1:54:07
  I mean, it's, you know, I, I hesitate to use the word God
• 1:54:11
  because as a professor of religious studies, I know how
• 1:54:14
  much damage has been done by our shrunken and heavily culturally
• 1:54:18
  and enculturated limitations in our understanding of thinking
• 1:54:22
  about God. But you can use that term God as
• 1:54:25
  long as you strip it away. This intelligence that that that
• 1:54:29
  led to The Big Bang, the intelligence that gave birth to
• 1:54:32
  the galaxies and the solar systems and nature and life and
• 1:54:36
  consciousness and individually consciousness and moving
• 1:54:40
  forward. I think you're right.
• 1:54:42
  We we really don't have an idea of what's coming.
• 1:54:45
  I mean, we may be able to envision the next stage.
• 1:54:49
  We may be able to envision the crisis and the resolution of the
• 1:54:53
  crisis and the next stage. But that's just the next cycle
• 1:54:57
  of evolution. It's hard to imagine what lies
• 1:55:01
  100,000 years past that cycle into and there.
• 1:55:04
  And that's when I think we we ultimately always have to
• 1:55:09
  surrender to the majesty of existence, to the majesty of it
• 1:55:14
  all. I mean, I know that you're
• 1:55:16
  inspired by the wonderful photographs that come out of the
• 1:55:20
  web James Webb telescope, and I do too.
• 1:55:24
  I mean, it just it lifts your spirits.
• 1:55:26
  It lifts your eye to a larger horizon.
• 1:55:28
  And psychedelics open us up and lift us to a larger horizon.
• 1:55:32
  We've seen the wisdom and the intelligence outside of us.
• 1:55:35
  But when we look to human existence, we have not felt the
• 1:55:38
  wisdom. We have not felt.
• 1:55:40
  We feel like there may be beauty and wisdom there, but this is a
• 1:55:44
  mean and ugly and dirty business and God doesn't care.
• 1:55:47
  And, and this is hard, hard, hard.
• 1:55:49
  But I think now we're beginning to understand with understanding
• 1:55:53
  reincarnation, understanding the larger trajectory of our
• 1:55:57
  individual and our collective development.
• 1:56:00
  Now we begin to be able to understand maybe what are some
• 1:56:03
  of the seeds of suffering in the human existence and what are the
• 1:56:07
  seeds of, of clarity and a breakthrough in human existence.
• 1:56:14
  So I think in the end, when we expand our experience of what
• 1:56:19
  human existence is about, we can then experience the beauty of
• 1:56:24
  the universe and feel ourselves part of it instead of feeling
• 1:56:29
  ourselves estranged from it because we're just a little
• 1:56:31
  bitty peace and things are so hard.
• 1:56:34
  We don't understand it. We can't understand it.
• 1:56:37
  We're beginning to understand it and with that understanding
• 1:56:40
  becomes a great piece, really great piece and excitement.
• 1:56:44
  It's exciting. I mean, I can definitely tell
• 1:56:47
  you it breaks down really quickly for me, even as someone
• 1:56:52
  who has seen where technology's gonna go.
• 1:56:57
  In Episode 21, I had Jeremiah Owingon, who is one of the best
• 1:57:01
  AI investors in the world, and he works alongside Reed Hoffman.
• 1:57:05
  Reed Hoffman's the founder of LinkedIn and has, has, has been
• 1:57:08
  one of the best investors in the world period.
• 1:57:11
  Like probably one of the top ten in tech.
• 1:57:14
  And he said on that episode that even Reid Hoffman, with all the
• 1:57:18
  access he has, can't see beyond two to three years with AI.
• 1:57:23
  So you're talking 100,000 years in the lattice.
• 1:57:27
  I was like, really trying to envision, you know, the next,
• 1:57:31
  you know, 60 years, essentially 100,000 years from now.
• 1:57:35
  I mean, we would if, if we could go in that time machine and you
• 1:57:41
  and I visit that, I don't think it'd be recognizable at all.
• 1:57:45
  Yeah, at all. I don't think we'd even be able
• 1:57:47
  to recognize the the the being and even if we scaled.
• 1:57:52
  It back to 10,000 right? 10,000 years still be hard.
• 1:57:55
  It would still. Be Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:57:57
  It it you know, one one way to think about that is in reverse.
• 1:58:01
  Yeah. If you and I could go back
• 1:58:02
  100,000 years, yeah. What would they think of us
• 1:58:06
  right now? Yeah, They'd be like, hold on.
• 1:58:08
  You have something called a grocery store, and you have
• 1:58:12
  these things called blueberries. Yeah.
• 1:58:14
  And there's like 10 different types at that grocery store and
• 1:58:19
  Jets. Yeah, and.
• 1:58:20
  Jets and just on and on and on. They would not.
• 1:58:23
  They would not. They wouldn't even be able to
• 1:58:25
  grapple with electricity. Yeah, you know, the clean water,
• 1:58:28
  flushing toilets, you know, a hot shower.
• 1:58:31
  I mean, there's just so many things that we're on the.
• 1:58:33
  Cusp of so many extraordinary things coming yes, you know, and
• 1:58:37
  to me the the key we have this exponential liberation of the
• 1:58:42
  mind taking place in so many disciplines.
• 1:58:44
  The heart seems to have opened more slowly than the mind.
• 1:58:48
  And I think what's happening here is that the heart has to
• 1:58:53
  open The heart is opens us to oneness.
• 1:58:56
  It opens us to compassion. It opens us to fellow feeling.
• 1:59:00
  The heart now is the constricting organ of evolution.
• 1:59:05
  And I think if we don't open the heart, if we don't open to
• 1:59:09
  oneness and compassion, to love as you say, then our mind be it
• 1:59:17
  continues to be a danger to humanity.
• 1:59:19
  But if we make this transition, then our mind becomes a bounty.
• 1:59:27
  And it's some people ask me, what about human nature?
• 1:59:30
  What about animals? What about you?
• 1:59:32
  You know, you don't ever talk about animals in your book.
• 1:59:36
  And I think that's true. I mean, and there are some
• 1:59:39
  people who work with psychedelics.
• 1:59:40
  They have very deep and profound experiences with animals with
• 1:59:45
  it's kind of in a shamanic kind of world with animal
• 1:59:47
  intelligence. And I think the reason is
• 1:59:51
  because humanity represents the greatest threat to all life on
• 1:59:56
  this planet. If we can heal humanity, then
• 2:00:01
  all the animals will be safe for sure.
• 2:00:03
  And if we don't heal humanity, then they continue to be
• 2:00:06
  endangered and to die. I would say that we also have
• 2:00:10
  the greatest potential to heal the planet, like replenish those
• 2:00:14
  on, you know, you remember in the lattice by 2050, the Earth
• 2:00:18
  becomes a healed jewel. And we have we we have that.
• 2:00:21
  And no animal has that potential.
• 2:00:23
  Yeah. 1 derivative pieces of work that I haven't sent you yet
• 2:00:28
  is called the whale's dream. And it's a branch in from the
• 2:00:33
  lattice where Doctor Alexander Bliss gets very infatuated with
• 2:00:41
  working with whales because their consciousness, they're in
• 2:00:43
  1/2 awake, half asleep state. So while they're sleeping,
• 2:00:46
  they're actually half of their brain is awake.
• 2:00:48
  And, and we decode whale language and that's already
• 2:00:52
  happening right now, but we decode it to a point where we
• 2:00:54
  can really converse with them. And we find out it's actually
• 2:00:58
  got a great tie in with reincarnation that they they,
• 2:01:02
  they already have the diamond sole.
• 2:01:05
  Yeah. That they're already there.
• 2:01:06
  They, they already know all of their prior lifetimes, that
• 2:01:10
  their consciousness is more developed than our
• 2:01:13
  consciousness. They're receiving it
• 2:01:15
  differently. And an interesting that that
• 2:01:18
  very much could be the case today.
• 2:01:20
  You know, that that is what Love Conquers Fear is all about.
• 2:01:24
  I mean, the message of the podcast and the book is that is
• 2:01:29
  what humanity needs to to get to.
• 2:01:32
  And one, one thing I'd love to do is we kind of wrap this up
• 2:01:37
  and we go into this beautiful dinner tonight with with the
• 2:01:42
  leading edge group, which is going to be such an honor to be
• 2:01:45
  there with you and hear all of those very intelligent people
• 2:01:50
  ask you questions is at the at the end of your book.
• 2:01:56
  It's in, it's in, it's in Chapter 12, Coming off the
• 2:02:00
  Mountain. You know, we were talking about
• 2:02:01
  the difficulty of coming off the mountain of all these journeys.
• 2:02:06
  And there's a last section of that chapter called Entering the
• 2:02:09
  Sweet Valley. There's this, there's this part
• 2:02:12
  where you're interacting with a woman, I can't remember which,
• 2:02:15
  which woman it was that you're writing to her and she's asking
• 2:02:17
  you to distill it. It's a reporter.
• 2:02:19
  OK, it's a. Reporter Yeah.
• 2:02:21
  And and this is not going to do the book justice at all because
• 2:02:26
  there's so much deep texture in the book.
• 2:02:29
  Again, it's a must. It's a must read.
• 2:02:30
  But she asked. Me.
• 2:02:31
  What's the most important thing you learned?
• 2:02:33
  Yes. And so I want to read that list
• 2:02:36
  because I think we've covered everything on this list, but I
• 2:02:41
  want to see if there's anything else we should maybe just double
• 2:02:44
  click on before we wrap up #1 that the universe is the
• 2:02:48
  manifest body of a divine being of unimaginable intelligence,
• 2:02:53
  compassion, clarity, and power #2 that we are all aspects of
• 2:02:59
  this being, never separated from it for a moment #3 that we are
• 2:03:06
  growing ever more aware of this connection #4 that physical
• 2:03:13
  reality emerges out of the light and returns to the light
• 2:03:17
  continuously #5 that light is our essential nature and our
• 2:03:23
  destiny. Number six, that all life moves
• 2:03:27
  as one. Number seven, that reincarnation
• 2:03:32
  is true #8 that there's a deep logic and significance to the
• 2:03:38
  circumstances of our lives #9 that everything we do
• 2:03:44
  contributes to the evolution of the whole.
• 2:03:48
  Number 10, that our awareness continues in an ocean of time
• 2:03:52
  and a sea of bliss when we die #11 that we are loved beyond
• 2:03:58
  measure and #12 that humanity is driving towards an evolutionary
• 2:04:04
  breakthrough that will change us and life on this planet at the
• 2:04:08
  deepest level. It's really beautiful there's.
• 2:04:12
  Nothing in that list that our best spiritual traditions
• 2:04:17
  haven't already taught us. I know what emerges in
• 2:04:20
  psychedelic The cosmology that emerges is not a new cosmology.
• 2:04:25
  It's simply a different technology that allows us to
• 2:04:28
  have access to these insights, which have been accessed in
• 2:04:33
  other contemplative disciplines through history.
• 2:04:36
  There's nothing new here. It's just a different
• 2:04:39
  methodology for accessing them. But it's powerful medicine at a
• 2:04:44
  time when we need powerful medicine right now.
• 2:04:47
  And so I, I hope that psychedelics will contribute to
• 2:04:52
  an awakening of the human heart and an opening of the human mind
• 2:04:56
  to this and help us fulfill this destiny which is building up
• 2:05:02
  inside of us, underneath us, taking us forward where we need
• 2:05:06
  to go. Yeah.
• 2:05:07
  Yeah, it certainly will be an increasingly powerful tool
• 2:05:13
  because it's, it's, it's having a real renaissance.
• 2:05:16
  It is right now without a doubt. But I, I would also posit that
• 2:05:21
  there's gonna be a lot more with brain computer interfaces.
• 2:05:25
  There's gonna be a lot more understanding about near death
• 2:05:28
  experiences about, you know, I, I, anybody listening to this or
• 2:05:33
  watching this, I would not underestimate how technology
• 2:05:36
  will actually help us prove scientifically that this list is
• 2:05:43
  true. That would be.
• 2:05:46
  That will be interesting, won't it?
• 2:05:47
  Will. Will be interesting is
• 2:05:50
  inevitable that it happens. You know, as I've said many
• 2:05:55
  times on this podcast, I'm 95% certain that we make it.
• 2:05:58
  I want to make that 100% and it's yeah, it's it's it's
• 2:06:02
  inevitable because because again, like, you know, think
• 2:06:04
  about Max Planck and Albert Einstein and the patriarchs of
• 2:06:07
  quantum physics. They became more spiritual as a
• 2:06:10
  result of their discoveries because they found that the
• 2:06:13
  ancient Mystics are right, you know, and and you know from the
• 2:06:16
  lattice that I ended by quoting from ancient scripture.
• 2:06:20
  Yeah, you know, quoting from the Quran, quoting from the Zohar
• 2:06:23
  are quoting from the Bible, quoting from ancient Hindu
• 2:06:26
  texts. Yeah.
• 2:06:27
  And, you know, it took, it took it took us the scientific
• 2:06:32
  discovery to understand that everything that's in, you know,
• 2:06:40
  Bhagavad Gita and Nidal de Ching and ancient, you know, text was,
• 2:06:47
  was true deep. Truths deep, deep.
• 2:06:49
  Truths and that that is that that's something I'm super
• 2:06:54
  excited about in this lifetime. It's not just about humanity
• 2:06:57
  making it, but I actually think the catalyst for humanity to
• 2:07:00
  make it is going to be that non local consciousness is real and
• 2:07:05
  that we come from this world of love and light.
• 2:07:08
  And then once we know that, how do we behave?
• 2:07:12
  Having that knowledge, it, it, it will for sure transform us
• 2:07:17
  because then we know that that is our actual reality.
• 2:07:22
  So I'm looking forward to the continuing journey with you.
• 2:07:26
  I'm so glad that you've become a friend.
• 2:07:29
  And, and I'm just so deeply, deeply thankful and, and, and
• 2:07:34
  have immense gratitude for what you've done on behalf of
• 2:07:38
  humanity. I really think that that your
• 2:07:43
  work is going to go down in time, you know, 5000 years from
• 2:07:47
  now, maybe not even that long as the a key catalyst for for why
• 2:07:53
  humanity made it I I really, I really think that's gonna happen
• 2:07:57
  if it. Helps in any way.
• 2:07:58
  If it helps humanity make it, it would just be an honor and a
• 2:08:01
  privilege. I guess that's all I want.
• 2:08:03
  All we want is just help humanity make it through this
• 2:08:06
  transition. Help us come to our senses.
• 2:08:09
  Help us wake up. Yeah.
• 2:08:10
  Yeah. Thank you so much.
• 2:08:11
  Yeah, really, really appreciate it.
• 2:08:14
  Wonderful, brother. Thanks so much.
• 2:08:16
  So thanks everybody for tuning in to another app episode of
• 2:08:19
  Love Conquers Fear. Incredible lineup coming.
• 2:08:24
  I am fully booked for the next couple of months and just stay
• 2:08:30
  tuned. There's there's gonna be just so
• 2:08:34
  many amazing guests on. Thanks again for all the love
• 2:08:38
  you're giving me. You actually helped me come up
• 2:08:42
  with my 2026 theme for for the year to make this year all about
• 2:08:47
  embodiment. You know, last year was all
• 2:08:49
  about the inner journey. And I've just seen so many
• 2:08:53
  business leaders, entrepreneurs having a heart shift.
• 2:08:57
  I mean, I got AI got a message today from someone that it's
• 2:09:01
  been absolutely transformational for her in her life.
• 2:09:05
  And that's all I'm trying to do here.
• 2:09:07
  This is my love letter to humanity.
• 2:09:10
  It's going to take us all and it's team Humanity all the way.
• 2:09:14
  We've got to make it. We will thank you so much and
• 2:09:17
  love you all.