Latest / Suite Spot: A Hotel Marketing Podcast / 213 – TMG Hospitality Trailblazers: Emma Shaybani
Transcript
- Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what's trending in hotel marketing. I'm your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your host, as always, Ryan Embree. Very excited for our next guest in an edition of our TMG Hospitality Trailbazer series to set the table. This is that series again with conversations with people, organizations, and companies within the hospitality industry that are paving a path forward. I'm so excited for our next guest. And it also really seconds as a preview for the Digital Travel Summit happening in Orlando in September. My guest, this will be the first of a few times that we're gonna be together. Emma Shaybani, VP of Marketing at HEI Hotels and Resorts. Emma, thank you so much for joining me on The Suite Spot. Emma Shaybani: Thank you for having me. Ryan Embree: Yeah, we're excited. So we're gonna talk about that Digital Travel Summit event. We were talking off camera. It's a powerhouse event. Can't wait. Some big players within the travel industry gonna be there. But before we do that, we'd love to introduce you to our Suite Spot audience. Maybe love learning about everybody's kinda hospitality journey that led you to your role over there at HEI Hotel and Resorts. Emma Shaybani: Yeah, it's a bit of an unconventional journey, I suppose. So, I moved from England, and I moved from England to Connecticut, and I was really looking for my next opportunity. I'd not worked in hospitality before. I'd worked actually for CBS back in London. I had a couple of my own businesses, so hotels weren't necessarily part of my original plan. But I, I joined HEI actually in a reputation management role. And I think at the time, they just knew that they needed somebody to look after reputation management, but they weren't exactly sure what I would be doing. So it started off really as me in a room responding to guest reviews. So it, it didn't take too long for us to all realize that probably wasn't the best use of my time. So I kinda went to my boss at the time, Brian, with a plan and I was like, "Hey, you know, it's hard for me to, to respond to these reviews when I'm not at the property. I don't know what's happened. You know, really, we should empower the teams at the hotels to be responding to these reviews. And, you know, really, I can be there as kind of a, you know, backup support and making sure that we are responding." Because, you know, the hotel teams know the guest experience the best. And I was really focusing then on monitoring the trends, opportunities, and that's when I noticed that the same thing was kind of happening with social media. We had all these accounts. They weren't necessarily active. So we took this kind of a similar approach with social media. And then from there, the role just kind of kept evolving. So every time we kind of solved one challenge, we'd notice something else that we could then tackle. Back then, we had 20-27 hotels, I think it was. And now today we've grown the team. There's quite a few of us now, over 100 hotels, multiple brands. So it's been pretty incredible, honestly, to, to grow alongside the company. And I remember back in the day, my biggest concern was trying to memorize these 27 hotels, and now somehow I seem to manage with a hundred and something. Ryan Embree: We love the unconventional journey in hospitality and kinda falling into it. But also, a lot of people we find fall in love with hospitality. And that's why you hear about people maybe starting kind of in, you know, I was a bellman when I first started at a hotel and front desk agents, F&B, and then all of a sudden, here they are 30 years later into a career that they absolutely love. And your foundation actually mirrors a lot of what the Suite Spot is. We started as a digital marketing podcast preaching to hoteliers about the importance of things like managing your reputation, social media strategy, which we're gonna get into in this conversation a little bit, because it is a constantly evolving and so ever important because those are places that can be touched prior to a guest arrival and have a real impact on bookings and the guest experience. But before we get into that, I want, I do wanna start about talking about that event, the Digital Travel Summit that both of you will have the pleasure of attending down there in Orlando at September 28th and 29th. Personally, could not be more excited for this event, bringing some of the travel industry's biggest and brightest together in a very intimate setting, very excited about it. What are you most looking forward to about this event? And maybe what caught your eye and it drew you initially to this Digital travel Summit? Emma Shaybani: I think what immediately caught my attention was that it was an event that was dedicated solely to digital marketing as a whole. I think, while, while AI is, is transforming things pretty rapidly, and I think this was nice because it was a conference that recognizes digital marketing is so much broader than just AI. And we still have to think about search, paid media, websites, all of these things and how those pieces work together to essentially drive demand. So I saw that and then also I'm looking forward to seeing some of our friends that are there, some of the industry leaders that are talking. I think there was one of the sessions, a keynote that's on event-driven travel, which is something that we're investing heavily in at HEI, you know, things like concerts, festivals, major conventions. A lot of my team's focus at the moment is setting up things like landing pages, targeted offers to really kind of take advantage of those experiences. 'Cause we all saw what happened, with the Taylor Swift effect a few months ago. Ryan Embree: 100%. Emma Shaybani: Exactly. So I think that's a really, a lot of the topics throughout the event are really on trend and really useful. So I think it's, it'll be good to bring everybody together. We're all solving similar challenges, so that hopefully, you know, we can come away with some practical ideas that myself and the team can implement when we're back in the office. Ryan Embree: Yeah, 100%. And to piggyback on that Taylor Swift effect, you got the World Cup that just happened this summer. You got the Olympics in LA in a couple more years. So no shortage of events coming to domestic US. Concerts are gonna continue to pop up. Sporting events across generations, younger travelers, but across generations still prioritizing those experiences at the forefront. And I think you're absolutely right, Emma. It's a very comprehensive event. It's funny, back in the day when we started first talking about, you know, this to hoteliers with, with digital marketing, sometimes social media review responses, you, like you talked about in your story, it fell on the youngest person at the hotel, right? So who's the youngest, uh, front desk agent? They probably know the best about social media. Now as digital marketers, we kinda cringe thinking about that. We put our whole stake of reputation on someone that we really didn't train a hotel's voice or anything like that. So it really has evolved. And I love your perspective on where we are with AI because you think about this emerging technology. Well, social media a couple decades ago was right there in that spot, and now it's created roles within social media. So it'll be interesting to get everybody in like you said, that room to, with the same challenges, trends, what are you seeing? And speaking of panels, I'll have the privilege and pleasure of moderating a powerhouse keynote panel with you involved, Emma, called Building AI-Ready Marketing Teams: Knowing When to Automate and When to Go Human. For our Suite Spot audience, give us maybe a little bit of sneak peek of a preview on your thoughts on that topic. Emma Shaybani: I think, you know, I always encourage the team to really ask themselves kind of simple questions, right, when it comes to our use of AI, is if, like, if this task disappeared tomorrow, would anyone notice, right? And if the answer is no, then we can probably find a way to automate that, you know? And I also think there's a question of, is there value in the thinking or is there value in the typing? Because we do spend a lot of our time producing reports, producing presentations. And really, the value of having humans is the strategy, the judgment, the relationship building, and also the creativity. So we wanna make sure that, you know, humans are also, we're remaining in charge of the decisions, but can we become more efficient by our use of AI? And we kind of split. We do something called the rule of 80/20, which is AI can get us about 80% of the way there to the finish line, right? It can gather data. It can generate drafts, mock-ups, website copy, summarize reports, but then it's really like that final 20%, which is gonna create the real value. Human judgment, as I said, creativity, empathy. That's where we need the human, human touch. And I think that's really important when it comes to just overall guest experience as well, because while we're using AI to get in front of guests, we're trying to be the most visible or the top on Google or, you know, any of, any of. We really want maximum visibility, right, across all these channels. But when we get, when people get to the property, they want a human experience. I think people still very much want a human experience. So we have to make sure that what we're portraying online is an extension of this experience that happens on property. So I think it's a mix. I really do. Ryan Embree: It gets a little bit more complicated within hospitality. Other industries, it might be easier to automate all the way through, where in hospitality, there does need to be that human touch because of what, exactly what you just said, Emma, right? Like, people want that connection. They want that exper - That's why we travel, right? It's not that there might, might be some places where you can completely disconnect from people, but most of the time, they wanna experience. That's why they're getting out. That's why they're going to new places and having new opportunities to explore cities and locations that they haven't before, and they wanna, they wanna feel that. So it is interesting to see that. You know, I've, I've said it on this podcast and we'll probably say it again. The GM of the next few years might look a lot closer to what it did 20 or 30 years ago before all of those tasks were put on their plate and all of a sudden they had to sit behind a computer for 80% of their time and do spreadsheets and other things that required our time. Now they can maybe get back to the heart, which will be very interesting to see that shift in hospitality. Excited to explore it in that keynote panel that, again, is gonna feature some major brands alongside, travel industry brands alongside Emma here. So hope our Suite Spot listeners will look into that event, the Digital Travel Summit, and join us. I wanna shift back to, well, actually, I wanna talk about AI and, and the guest experience a little bit more. A few years back, you were a featured columnist in Hotel News Now, where you wrote that managing the guest experience in hotels begins earlier than ever. Now, this was a couple years ago. We're getting news almost on a weekly basis with, with the cadence of AI and technology. Talk to us a little bit about your thoughts on how, if at all, that's changed with the emergence of AI traveler search. Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I actually think the, the idea is probably more relevant today than it was when I wrote that article a couple years ago. I think the guest experience no longer begins when someone walks through the hotel doors, right? It starts the moment they have that idea and start dreaming of a trip or a destination. I think today, obviously, a lot of travelers are using AI and Googles to really help them to decide where to stay, where to go, what to do. It's great. I use it myself, right? You can go through so much more data, so many more options, and it just kind of speeds up the entire trip planning process. But what it means is that our digital presence really is, more importantly than ever, an extension of the actual guest experience itself when they get to the property. You know, AI kind of just, just changed how guests discover us, but what really isn't changing, as I kind of said before, is, is what they expect when they arrive. I think it's actually raising the bar in many instances, because we're getting the information to the traveler through AI or through Google, and we're actually, we're creating more personalized recommendations. We're getting them more information than ever, and we're setting these kind of real clear expectations of this is what you can expect when you arrive. So we have to make sure that the in-guest experience really, like, delivers on that promise when, when they get there. But for me, I think that's where hospitality really still wins, because technology can, we can inspire people to travel, to book a stay, but people create memories, they wanna create memories on property that they'll take home. And if we've promised a really great experience online, you know, the front desk, the food and beverage, housekeeping, every interaction throughout that stay is really gonna, like, enforce that expectation that we've set. So I think it, you know, AI is a tool to enhance hospitality. I think it replaces it. And I think it's just kind of, trying to really seamlessly marry those two things together, so that we're setting expectations correctly, but then we're also delivering on real, incredible real life experiences. Ryan Embree: 100%. Yeah, personalization, a goal and objective that hospitality has been in after, I mean, for a decade now. We are closer than ever with as much data as we have right now, and that's why I think a lot of hoteliers, brands, management companies are really going after that data and really trying to figure out a way, how can AI help me? All this data that I'm collecting from this guest make a more personalized experience and enhance, like you said, Emma, the guest experience. But at the core of it, I remember. I mean, I remember when you go to a TripAdvisor for a hotel and you keep, you scroll through the reviews and you see someone's name mentioned at the front desk over and over again, "Emma at the front desk was amazing. Emma did this. Emma did that." And then you come in and you're greeted by Emma and you're like, "I, it's like I know you already, right? Like, it, that is such a cool experience and it elevates that. And I think that is in practice what I think these LLMs hopefully will have for a guest on the horizon. I think it does raise the bar, what you're saying, Emma, because we want our guests to walk through those doors and know us as intimately as the front desk agent that they've maybe read three or four reviews about. So really exciting to kind of see and have certainly seen it implemented that elevation of guest service through HEI and resorts. It's award season and obviously the accolades keep rolling in for your portfolio. Recognition from Conde Nast, Cvent, Travel and Leisure. Congratulations first off to you and your team. But from a reputation management, I mean, that's your origin story, right, with HEI and Hotel and Resorts. How do you leverage these to kind of win more business? And how critical is it in today's landscape to have a defined reputation management strategy more than kind of where you started maybe just responding to the reviews? Emma Shaybani: Thank you. Yeah, the awards like this are really meaningful, I think, to everybody because they're really a reflection of the teams that are delivering those exceptional guest experiences every single day. I think behind these recognitions is the front desk associates, the housekeepers, engineers, servers, people who are creating these memories and these memorable stays. So I think it's really important to celebrate that, which is why we really put an emphasis on promoting when we do win these awards. I think from a marketing perspective, these awards really serve as kind of a very powerful third-party validation. We spend a lot of time, telling guests what they can expect from our hotels, through our websites, our social media, photography. But these awards from Conde Nast or Travel and Leisure really, like, reinforce essentially that that promise that we're making is real and help really allow us to build trust with a guest before they've not before they've even booked. And I definitely think it can be the deciding factor, right? If someone's, you know, looking in the several hotels in the same market that they're considering, it does help kind of validate that our hotels are a top choice in the market. I think on the reputation management side, it's funny because back then it really was a case of, okay, we've just got to respond to these reviews. The brands are telling us, we've got to respond to anything under a three-star, and we have to do it within 48 hours. And I think it's become so much more than that, and it's, it's so much more critical now because it's no longer just about having a high rating on the different review sites. Guest reviews, I think, are really influencing how AI-powered search tools and large language models understand and recommend hotels. There's been studies on it, we're seeing it ourselves. Every review essentially creates this kind of digital story of the property, and then that story gets shared, right, from whether it's on ChatGPT, whether it's on Google, iit's obviously very visible. I also think reviews are really, like, one of the few opportunities that we have to publicly demonstrate how we respond to feedback. You know, whether it's thanking someone that they've had, you know, for a great stay or we're addressing concerns. These responses, I think, allow us to show that we're, you know, we're open to feedback. We care and that we're committed to kind of continuously improving, um, the guest experience. But I think all these things, ultimately, awards, reputation management, they're all working hand in hand at the moment to ensure, again, we're, people are getting credible information, and then also that they're making informed decisions when they book. Ryan Embree: Yeah, what an opportunity to showcase the level of service that you're gonna experience at a hotel than to publicly kinda display that through reviews and review response, right? You know, as it's really human nature sometimes, I think unfortunately, that will go. Travel is stressful, right? Things happen in travel. We talked that there were a couple missed flights when we were trying to plan this out, right? How stressful is that? Like, so if you see that, sometimes a guest is a traveler, you sometimes have to put yourself in that, "Well, what is the worst case scenario?" So you try to look maybe for that one-star review. And if you see that empathetic voice on the other side of someone that genuinely has an authentic feeling of service-oriented response, man, the impact on that can really, really make the difference, and be maybe that final little push that has that comfort level, that trust that you talked about. I think that's a great word right now, is we're just looking that I trust that this hotel's gonna take care of me, my family, if I'm traveling, my family, to make this experience the best it can. So 100% agree with you. That is something we preach all the time on this podcast. Social media, on the other end, plays a huge role in reputation management, and very comprehensive. What are your thoughts on what hoteliers should be prioritizing in the social media space right now, which is ever-evolving? Emma Shaybani: Yeah. I think the biggest thing is the shift we've seen, especially with platforms like Instagram and TikTok, is the priority is now content, and kind of not over-complicating social media as a whole. I think we talk a lot of time, talking about algorithms and platforms, but at the end of the day, if we don't have compelling content, our strategy isn't gonna get us very far. I think what I've seen a lot is that hotels will invest heavily in the social media management, but they're not investing as heavily into the content itself. And we've spoken to a number of agencies and worked with different ones over the years, and a lot of them have fairly significant price tags to manage social media accounts, which I understand, right? Platforms like TikTok take a ton of time to create and produce. But these agencies, they're, you know, they're typically posting content, they're doing community management, but they're not necessarily creating the photography, the video, the reels, and influencer partnerships that are really the things that are gonna fuel engagement. So I think what we've seen is that without a strong pipeline of content, we're just repurposing the same assets over and over again. So we've shifted a lot and it's really about finding the right balance. So having a reliable content partner that can help create some consistency, and then filling in the gaps with influencers and creators, that can help, capture authentic moments and, and produce those reels. Doing those two things together work really well, but I really do think it's now it's time to start and really investing into content. Just be - everyone gets so fatigued, right? You just scrolling all the time. And then when people have seen that picture, they're like, "Okay, I'm gonna scroll to, scroll to the next one." And a lot of the time, we're not just producing. I think everybody really used to think of it as, like, okay, we produce content for the website and the brand websites, and then we have content for social media, which is different. And it doesn't actually have to be different anymore. You know, great content really powers everything. We can use that same photography or same social content to really strengthen our website. It really helps improve paid advertising performance. So, we can use it in our email campaigns, even on our OTA listings as well. So it's kind of trying to get everyone to understand that that one investment can really help us deliver value across our entire marketing ecosystem. And it's funny because it's always the thing that everyone tries to cut from the budget is the photography aspect. We haven't been renovated. We don't need a photo shoot. There's still things we can do, right? There's still, there's still new content to be, to be taken. So I think that's where we're focusing a lot of our time is content over the management piece. Ryan Embree: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, quality of content, I mean, the landscape has changed as far as the competitive forces, right? Now, back in the day when, when social media first, it was only anyone that you followed, right? You were only competing against those pages that that particular user was following. Now, a majority of time spent for a social media user is in explore pages, and a lot of accounts that they're in. It's more interest-based than follow base. You rarely see the things that you follow unless you're engaging with it frequently. So the competitive nature of that, and you think how quickly. I mean, next time you're in front of your phone, any of our listeners, how quickly your thumb is swiping, it's a lot quicker than it was a decade ago, and how much your brain is actually giving that attention, that attention span has been shrinking. So quality of content, it has to be at a high level. And, and you're absolutely right, Emma. We've seen a lot of hoteliers maybe not give the necessary time attention, whether it be time investment or capital investment into that. And it's not enough just to be there anymore. I think that's where we were maybe a decade ago. If you're in the arena, you've got a shot. Now the bar is being raised, in that regard. So marketing, what a fun position. Always something going on, right? Something to celebrate. You got projects that you're working on, announcements, try to make as much noise as possible. Any particular projects right now, Emma, that you're particularly fired up about that you're working, you and your team are working on? Emma Shaybani: Yeah. I think there's a few things, because everything's just changing so rapidly at the moment. So it's actually like a fun, I think it's a fun time. It's stressful, but it's a fun time to be a marketer. But I think the first thing is websites, because I think things have, like, especially where we're able, we have obviously independent hotels, and we also have some branded assets that have vanity websites. And I think how that trend is also shifting, because for years, the trend was to have, like, these minimal content websites. You didn't have a lot of copy, massive imagery. But now, obviously, with the shift in AI search, the websites have to be kind of richer, more informative, and actually have some genuinely helpful content. Things like destination guides, and FAQs, and all these different things, which is now kind of shaping a lot of our future designs on what these websites look like. So it's kind of like we've kind of gone back a little bit. And so I think that's kind of, it's exciting to test a lot of that and really start to kind of just a lot of it's testing, just really kind of getting in the weeds and just trying different things. I think another thing that we're excited about, and we've got a lot of projects on the go is video. Again, I think video always used to be one of these nice-to-have pieces, but now it's becoming a must-have because people want, you know, again, people are used to video content, short-form video content. So we're implementing that on websites and in emails. But we're also starting to have a lot more fun with our creative. I think a great example is we have an asset in Nashville called Waymore's, and it's a fun hotel. It's in East Nashville, and we just produced this video that really is probably a little bit out of the box, but it really leans into the personality of the hotel and kind of the spirit of Nashville. And it's definitely catches people's eyes. We're, we're running it on social, we're running it on emails, and we've seen a real uptick in people engaging with it. So I think it's fun to kind of work on these more exciting videos, exciting content. And then my other big project right now is building what we've launched earlier this year called LoyalKey, which is our independent loyalty program for our HEI independent hotels. We haven't done that before. It was something new that we wanted to try. And it's an opportunity that really allows us to kind of bring together our. We have some really one of a kind independent assets. And we wanted to create kind of like a shared loyalty experience while still, like, maintaining what kind of keeps each hotel special. And it really gives us the ability to leverage the guests at each of those hotels and connect them to, if you're interested in one independent asset, you might be interested in another one. So it's giving these hotels real opportunity to kind of co-market, and at the same time, build this loyalty brand. So it's been, it's been a learning experience, to kind of build that from the ground up. But it's fun. Ryan Embree: What a project. An opportunity, again, for personalization. You get some more of that guest data within loyalty programs, and all of a sudden, personalization starts to really blossom there, especially in the independent hotel space where you can do some really, really cool things. So, and just to piggyback on your video comment, if you don't believe, Emma, as far as how important video is, go through, again, your social media feed. See how long you're scrolling on each one, but also see how many times you're seeing a still image now. I mean, it is surprising now when I go through my feed that I rarely come across just a still image. Most of them are going to be, whether it's a GIF or some sort of, uh, short form video, most of the content that we are consuming now is not going to be a still image. So just going where the trends are, and yeah, it's funny you mentioned that about that East Nashville property. You know, we work with hotels in their social media. And one of the videos that went viral on this particular hotel partner's account was that they filmed High School Musical Two at the property, right? And it was kind of like this produced Zac Efron in there, and it exploded. And it was, like, probably something that we didn't think was gonna get that much traction, but it was fun. People engaged with it. People loved it, especially those, millennials that grew up with that. And it became kind of a staple of that property and just a way to share the story of that property. So really cool examples there. And that creative side that's the fun part of social media. So you mentioned 100 plus properties, so this might be a little bit tough for you, but I'm gonna put you on the spot here, Emma. I'm gonna do some rapid fire questions to get to know you and the HEI Hotel and Resorts portfolio a little better. So what is one of your favorite views at a property, HEI Hotel and Resort property? Emma Shaybani: I would say probably Hyatt Regency, Jersey City. So I had actually never been to Jersey City, but I was astounded by the, when I went, the views of Manhattan. 'Cause it's great, you know, when you're in Manhattan, you're like, "Oh, this is amazing." Like - Yeah. But when you're actually looking at it from across the water, it's incredible. So probably that one. And we also have another, actually, another Times Square view. We have Renaissance Times Square that has this really cool bar that overlooks, like, the whole of Times Square. And it's just like, incredible. I could sit there and watch that for hours. So it's, it's probably the New York views for me. Ryan Embree: Yeah. And those are hard to beat. Being in New York a couple months, same place up on a rooftop. I mean there's not a lot that beats that. So what about a favorite fun fact about one of your properties? Emma Shaybani: Oh, I really like, it's my favorite thing to do is always research or ask the team, like, what's the craziest story about this hotel when I go? I love all, like, the historical facts, like, the ghost stories. So probably the Liberty in Boston, it used to be the Charles Street Jail. And today, I just love that, like, you're sitting in there having a cocktail and there's still, like, the, the doors and the window bars. And it just, that's really fun. We also have The Cavalier, which has hosted, like, 10 presidents, Frank Sinatra. There's definitely some secrets in that hotel. And I love that they play into it. They have a lot of, like, historical facts on the wall. So it kind of becomes, like, I don't know, it's like a fact-finding mission when you're there. Ryan Embree: Yeah. I love that. It's funny. You think about in maybe 100 or 200 years, which of those structures might be hotels in the future, right? Think that there's a jail there. I've heard stories about, yeah, this used to be a bank and everything. Thing and now it's a hotel. Like that's the best part about hospitality, right? We can turn almost anything into a hotel. So, what about favorite signature dish at one of your properties, Emma? Emma Shaybani: I really like the steak tartar at the J in San Francisco. Served at the third floor and it's just one of those, it's just one of those dishes that I have to have, like I can not be hungry and I'll still order it because I need to have it. Cause I don't know when the next time I'm going back, but no, it's kind of got like, it's got like a Japanese twist on steak tartar, which is, it's delicious. Ryan Embree: Very nice. Coast to coast, Emma, I like it. This really shows the breadth of the portfolio you're working with over there. Last ones, either favorite piece of art at one of your properties or a favorite amenity at one of your properties? We can do both. Emma Shaybani: Well, we have a very, I think a pretty unique portfolio with every hotel kind of has a unique amenity. But I think the Live at the Sunrose, which is at our Sunrose property in West Hollywood, has this really cool intimate live music venue inside the hotel. And like you, just because it's in West Hollywood, you just don't know who's gonna turn up, start singing. I think, like, J-Lo was there. It's just, like - Oh, wow. It's just fun. Like she'll just get up and start singing. So I feel like that's like a really cool little just addition, right? Like if a guest is staying and that's all happening, it just really brings a lot of, a lot of energy to the, to the hotel. Ryan Embree: Well, and some great opportunity for content. You wanna talk about the perfect social media video? Emma Shaybani: I have no problems. Ryan Embree: Jennifer Lopez, right, singing at one of your hotels. Awesome. Well, you know, it's always. I've done almost, well, over 200 episodes. I always feel like it's my duty to my Suite Spot listeners when we have incredible industry influencers and leaders. And Emma, you were just recently named a top 100 marketer as part of the 2026 On Conferences Icon Awards. I always feel like I try to just get as much knowledge and tips and best practices from my guests as I can in the time that I have you here. So, what would be one piece of advice that you might share with hospitality marketers in our Suite Spot audience right now? Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is, and I tell my team this a lot, is don't be afraid to test. I think one of the realities is that there's a lot of pressure to kind of always deliver positive results to owners, asset managers, and leadership teams really naturally want kind of every campaign to be successful. But the reality is, if every campaign that we do succeeds, we're probably not pushing the boundaries or trying enough things. You know, I think with any of, with any of the, the campaigns that we run, I think the best marketers aren't really the ones that never fail. It's the ones that learn the fastest. So I think it's completely okay that every campaign or every test that we do isn't always going to work. And that's totally fine. I think it's important to then explain, why we're making a recommendation, why it worked, and the adjustments that we made when it didn't work or if it did work. So I think it's really just owning the, not being afraid to really own the outcome, good or bad, but really just, just test as many things as you can. I think it's funny. One of the things I always think about is, it was like with email marketing, everyone said you had to send it at, like, 11:00 AM on a Tuesday or a Thursday. And everyone's just taken that as gospel for so many years. And the other week, I think one of my team was like, "Oh, I made a mistake and sent it on a Sunday." And I was like, "What, like, what happened?" And he's like, "Well, I got the highest open rates that we've ever had." And I was like, "Well, there you go. You've got to try these things. Don't just keep doing the same thing. It's not a big deal. If we send an email campaign on a Sunday, okay, we get a lower click rate. Oh, you know, it doesn't matter. We can go back. The next one, we do something different." But it worked. So you never really know what's gonna work until you try. Ryan Embree: Yeah, bit of an unintentional test there, but turned out the right way. And as you mentioned, Emma, some of the biggest learning lessons can come out of those failures. And we've certainly heard some examples and stories on this podcast of industry leaders and professionals that some of their greatest success kind of started at maybe a moment of failure for them personally. So I think awesome advice. I appreciate that. Again, congratulations, on that recognition there. As we wrap up, Emma, we always like to end our episodes kinda looking ahead, right? We're looking forward to the Digital Travel Summit, like I said, in September. But from a marketing perspective, Emma, what's your vision for the future of HEI Hotel and Resorts? Emma Shaybani: Yeah, I'm really excited where we're heading. I think over the last few years, we've seen some incredible growth, especially to kind of our lifestyle and independent hotel portfolio. And I think that is rewarding for the team because there's so much freedom on the marketing side that comes with that. I think I'm just overall excited to, with the continued evolution of marketing within hospitality. As I said, it's a stressful time, but it's kind of a fun time. Because there's a lot of things to try and work with. When I started my career, marketing was really viewed as a support function and today it feels a lot more integrated. And it is a driver of revenue and business performance, whether it's AI, digital distribution, loyalty, reputation management. Marketing's kind of influencing now every stage of the guest journey. And it's nice to have a seat at the table, kind of alongside sales and revenue management and really be part of the bigger conversations that I think historically marketing was kind of seen as secondary to. So I think for us, looking ahead, we're just gonna keep pushing, pushing, trying to push boundaries, try a lot of new technology, especially where it's gonna add value. And as I mentioned, continue investing in things like creativity and content. And at the same time, try and not lose sight of what makes hospitality special, which is the people. Ryan Embree: Certainly a great opportunity to practice your advice, Emma. Use the testing waters and sandbox as much as you can. Exciting to see, because again, it's evolving so quickly. It feels like almost every single day we're getting some news out there. So we will continue to look to you and other industry leaders for what's next in hospitality marketing. Emma, thank you so much. It was a super comprehensive episode. Any final thoughts today? Emma Shaybani: No, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in Orlando at the conference. Ryan Embree: Yeah, excited as well. Thank you so much, Emma, for your time. We will let you get back to it, all the exciting things you have over there at HEI Hotels and Resorts. And thank you, the Suite Spot listener for joining us today. We will talk to you next time on The Suite Spot. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I'm your host, Ryan Embree, and we hope you enjoyed your stay.