Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Hasan Piker Problem Haunts Abdul El-Sayed as Michigan Senate Race Heats Up

Transcript

Normally Podcast: Hasan Piker Problem Haunts Abdul El-Sayed as Michigan Senate Race Heats Up · Normally

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we are back on Normally, the show with
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: normal-ish takes for when the news gets weird.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm Mary Katherine Hamm. And I'm Carol Markowitz. How are you,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Mary Katherine? I'm all right.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I'm doing very mom things this morning, which is tracking
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: down all the badges I was supposed to put on
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: my kids' scouting vests and we had all summer to do.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Tonight is the meeting, so obviously now is the time. Well,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: at least it's not like 6 p.m., so that would be... No,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I got a real head start on it. Yeah. How
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: are you guys doing? You know, it's raining a lot
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: in Florida.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: It's like late August, and most of September is my
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: least favorite Florida weather, and it's really... It's proving to
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: be correct that that is the worst time. Yeah, it's
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: just it's like I don't mind the afternoon rainstorms, but
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: it's the chaotic, real storming lightning. Everything gets canceled, but
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: maybe not a situation that I don't deal with well. Like,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, all the people that are snowbirds
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: or whatever, or the people who leave Florida for the summer.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Like, if it were up to me, if my kids
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: weren't in school, I'd leave Florida for September. Okay.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Noted. But, you know, it wasn't a big newsy weekend,
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: which I always appreciate. There wasn't a lot to weigh
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: in on or to read about.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So that was good. I dwelled on my Dolly grief
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: and wrote through the free.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Beacon about it, which you can check out. And, you know,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that's what we needed to do. Make my children listen
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: to a lot of Dolly Parton music.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I love it. That's, you know, that's the right way
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: to raise them, teach them some Dolly, teach her values.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, sort of the opposite of her values up in Michigan.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Shall we? Shall we jump into how into it?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Abdul El-Sayed versus Mike Rogers race is sort of a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: symbol for the lay of the land between the Republican
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: and Democratic parties. not just in this midterm, but in
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: general and what the Democratic Party is going to become
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: or not, depending.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: On what they decide.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So Abdel El-Sayed is running up there and is under
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: increased pressure to sort of talk about and reject his
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: alignment with Hassan Piker, who is this very, very extreme
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: streamer whose entire career like money-making scheme is based on
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: being as insane as possible, as loudly as possible. So like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't have aligned yourself with him. And when
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I say aligned himself with Hassan Piker, I mean, he
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: was on the trail with him multiple times. It was
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: on a pre or an election night pool party with him.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: He's taking selfies with him. His attempt to be at
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: arm's length now is not believable. But he basically says,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: you know, this is a race about affordability. It's not
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: a race about a streamer from California.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: And this has been tried, obviously, before when Kamala Harris
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: had a lot of her old, you know, quote unquote,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: woke one comments come up. She would say this is
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: not what the race is about. And her supporters would
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: say she's not even running on giving sex change operations
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: to illegal immigrant criminals in prison. Why are you guys
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: even mentioning this? But turns out the things that you
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: believe do come up in the campaign. So that's a
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: whole thing.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Well, and Hassan Piker is like a walking embodiment of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: not just woke 1.0, but the 2.0, which is the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: more militant, more Jew hating, more socialist revolutionary version of woke.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: And if you bring him physically to your state, yes,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you have to answer for him. And my theory, of course,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: on why El-Sayed doesn't want to jettison him too harshly
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: is is because he actually agrees with him on too
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: much of this stuff, uh, which is embodied by the way.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I just saw a, a tweet about his, uh, an
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: old 9-11 tweet of El-Sayed's, which says, I kid you not,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: today I mourn the 3,000 lives, 6,000 injuries, and infrastructural
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: devastation in New York City perpetrated ignorantly in the name
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of my faith. Tomorrow I'll mourn 1 million lives, millions
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: of injuries, and infrastructural devastation in three countries perpetrated ignorantly
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in the name of my country.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: That's September 21st.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: 2021 thanks bud uh the the the mournful observance of
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: infrastructural devastation.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: That's right yeah when planes sort of somehow crashed.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah throw on mom donnie said the other day all
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the people died they just died they had like unexplained
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: strokes or something i guess and.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: The canadian broadcasting uh committee also had to walk back
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: their um planes ended up crashing um.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So aes or i'll say i had attempted to back
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: away from his March comments about a terrorist attack in Michigan.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: This was a Hezbollah inspired attack on a synagogue that
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: at the moment had a preschool in it or that
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: houses a preschool. So about as bad as you can get.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: And at the time he was like, you know, hurt people,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: hurt people. He gave a very florid speech about, you know,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: you got to understand the context. So He, quote, apologizes
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: for this now, according to the media. But Mark Penn,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: who's a, you know, a centrist Democrat hoping to save
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: them from themselves, points out it's not really such an apology.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: He says, my comments may have been misconstrued to justify
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: something I did not mean to justify, else I had
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: told reporters after he addressed the caucus at a party
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: convention in Lansing. To anyone who feels like my comments
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: might have been hurtful, I'm really sorry. That was not
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: my intention. He goes on to say he was just giving...
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't the time for that.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: He didn't mean to tread on anyone's pain. Not really
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: an apology. Wow, that's not an I'm sorry.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: And it's similar to what Hasan Piker has done about
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: his own America Deserved 9-11 comments to kind of say
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: it was taken out of context and never actually apologize
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: as his fans say, look, he apologized, but he hasn't.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Hassan Piker also does all of us the favor of
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: never shutting up. And so you can really see through
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: El-Sayed's attempt to distance from this guy. And why this
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: is important in a larger context is because everyone on
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: the left is going to have pressure to align with
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: this guy to earn his audience such that it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Is and the energy behind him. And at what cost
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: is the question. So here's.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Hassan Piker pushing back on this in a clip and saying, like,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: it's unfair for all of you guys to say that
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: we hate America or that we love terrorists. Just like,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you know, the implication is that we're just Islamophobic. But
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: what we're actually doing is listening because you'll see back
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to back. Here's what Hassan Piker has said about America
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: and whether he hates it.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It is completely ridiculous.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It's laughable to say guys like myself, guys like Abdul El-Sayed,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: we hate America.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I say I hate America all the time. A lot
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: of motherfuckers want to kill me over that take. But
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: at least I say it with my fucking chest. People
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: will be like, Hasan, you hate America. I'm like, yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I do. I do hate America. He doesn't say it
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: with his chest anymore. What happened?
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: No.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I think he's it's almost as if he doesn't realize
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: that everyone can watch the streams.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Like he'll be mask off and mask on depending on
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: the day.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And he's blowing El Sayed's cover here. He has also
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: been found. Someone put together a super cut of him saying, oh,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you know who you know who had me in Michigan?
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Because El Sayed is like, why are y'all keep talking about?
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: It's not right here.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not interested in him. Well, who invited Hassan Piker
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to Michigan? Here's what Hassan Piker says.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: That's the whole point. That's the reason why Abdul asked
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: me to go.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: The reason why when Abdul asked for me to come
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: on this journey with him, I said.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: So when Abdul asked me to stomp for him, I
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: was like, sure, let's do it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: From the frying pan into the fire moment for me
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: was when Abdul asked me to do a stomp.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Abdul asked me to... Okay. Well, Abdul asked you to
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: stomp for him, did he?
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: That's what happened.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: And the fact is that Abdul needed him in the primary.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: He wanted his support in the primary. And he's not
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: going to be the last Democrat to turn to Hassan
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Piker in a primary and be like, get your left
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: wing base out for me. And it's going to be
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: interesting to see how many presidential.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Candidates on the Democratic side will.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Go on Hassan Piker's show and to rile up their base.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: They wanted the Joe Rogan of the left. I guess
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: they got him.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Well, and this is the thing about them, too, is
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: that it's partly because of media going easy on them
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: is Democrats will often get themselves in a situation where
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: an issue like, I don't know, the trans issue and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: trans women in sports or this one, Hassan Piker, get
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: them into trouble. And then they're so mad that Republicans
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: are noticing. It's like, you guys made this a thing.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You guys pushed this. There have been untold glowing portraits
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: of Assan Piker in mainstream media because he's this person
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: who is going to deliver the left in the ways
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that they want them to do. And then you're mad
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: that we all noticed that he exists and he's running
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: with your people. On both fronts, Mike Rogers is running
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: an ad tackling the woke one weirdness of.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: And the trans issue. Here's his newest ad.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: My dad was a football coach at Redford Union. I
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: played football all through high school. On the gridiron, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: learned about teamwork and toughness.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: Abdul.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Well, he says football is racist, sexist, and dominated by
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: toxic masculinity.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: So let's get this straight.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: Abdul thinks football is bad, but men playing women's sports
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: is good. That's just not who we are in Michigan.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: I'm Mike Rogers, and I approve this message. Common sense
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: versus crazy. That's Michigan's choice.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: And Democrats aren't dumping women. They are very much lining
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: up behind him. Chuck Schumer has a Senate majority pack.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: They are launching a $ 4. 5 million ad campaign statewide against
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Mike Rogers.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, is it really for El-Said? No, they don't
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: really have that much to say about that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: But they're coming out against Rogers' support for the Iran
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: war because... They say that he said it would end quickly,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: but it keeps going on. It's interesting that they are
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: not at all trying to push away that leftist flank.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: They might have a couple of words for Assam Piker,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: but even that's pretty muted.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the hits from Mike Rogers are fair. Those
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: are fair hits. El Sayed gets mad about it and says, hey,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Mike Rogers, clearly your teammates didn't vote you captain.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: If they did, you would have said it in the ad.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Probably had that beta energy back then.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: I was the captain, football, wrestling, lacrosse.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And Mike Rogers replies, nothing screams alpha quite like a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: 41-year-old desperately reminding everyone he was popular in high school.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Which I... That's that's well done.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: The hits are fair because this is how they have
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: expressed themselves in public. These are like issues that they
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: have not backed off of, whether for any of.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: These, you know, sort of woke 1.0 turned one 2.0 candidates.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: There's something also interesting about the whole beta alpha thing
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: happening in an election like that. Like a Democratic candidate
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: is calling his opponent a beta. Like that is such
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: an online thing. And it's just it's it's pathetic, actually.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: Like it's it's like what? Normal people will be like,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: what are you talking about? And I can't imagine that
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: playing in Michigan.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Also, it's almost a footnote at this point, but he
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: did a whole else. I did a whole video.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: But this is why it's symbolic of where the Democratic
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Party is headed about entitlement spending, doing the thing where
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: it's like we're spending money on the military instead of
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: spending money on entitlements, which is not true.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: The whole budget. And that's the problem in many cases.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: So he's just like straight up lying about it and wrong.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And and that's, I think, going to be their message
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: moving forward, because no one wants to deal with the
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: fact that the entitlements are a problem. Also, I am
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: forced to say that I was wrong about El-Sayed.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: On one point, which is this.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: He was in an interview where he said he was
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: excited to beat Ohio, and he went to Michigan. And
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I thought, that's weird. Ohio State is the rival to Michigan.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But apparently, and I have known so many Michigan people,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: but I did not know this. Apparently, the Michiganders, the Wolverines,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: refer to Ohio as Ohio as a slur, basically.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: They won't use their full name. Right. I saw this
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: debate on X, and I obviously sat it out because
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: what do I know? But it's interesting. We're not even
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: going to say the full name of your school. Yes.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I was unaware of this, even though I've had a
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: lot of exposure to Big Ten people. So mea culpa.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I apologize for that. He's just such an alpha, you know,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: using the right terminology. I was too beta. I was
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: too beta. Other than that, he's wrong. Right. Other than
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: the name of the school, he is incorrect. All right.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: We're going to take a short break and be right
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: back with more on Normally. We are back on Normally,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: where the one kind of big piece of news this
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: weekend is the U.S. and Venezuela reached an oil agreement
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: in the last few days, where essentially the U.S. will
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: get majority control, access to development of about 65 billion
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: barrels of Venezuelan oil through partnerships with private companies. And
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: it's intended to last 25 years. So there's been a
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: lot of kind of hand-wringing about this, even on the right,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: because we're not the country that takes your riches and
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: your goods. But I will say that a lot of
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the articles are forgetting to highlight some really important parts
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: of what was happening to Venezuelan oil before we took
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Maduro out. They were selling the oil off-market to China,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: to Russia, in accordance with I'm not a big international
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: law person, but they were violating international law in these
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: black market sales, and they were using it to harm America, basically.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: So here's Francisco Monaldi. He's director of the Latin America
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Energy Program at Rice University, Baker's Institute for Public Policy,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: talking about how it used to work.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: He says, Venezuela used.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: To be exporting most of its oil, about 80%, to
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: the black market in China before the U.S.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Blockade in December.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Today, Venezuela is exporting everything to licensed markets by the U.S.,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: mostly to the U.S., India, and some to a storage
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: in the Caribbean.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And all the money is being collected in a U.S.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Treasury account. But then some of it goes back to
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Venezuela and companies are coming back to the country to
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: see business opportunities there. I'm for it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I think that we are in a situation where we
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: have freed this country from communist dictatorship and we can
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: get their country going again and it can help American
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: commerce as well.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: OK, so, yeah, I'm I'm a little turn on this.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Here's here's Marco Rubio and I'll get into it. But
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: he says this deal is a huge win for both
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the American and Venezuelan people. It demonstrates how President Trump's
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: bold foreign policy is driving America first wins, securing stable
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: reserves and low cost oil in our hemisphere and lowering
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: gas prices globally. here at home for the Venezuelan people.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: This deal will bring nearly $ 100 billion in private investment,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: support thousands of high-paying jobs, and drive reconstruction of Venezuela's economy.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I'm with you. Obviously, it's a nice side.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Benefit that the oil reserves and such and the supply
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: chains can be secured in a way that will be
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: better than they have been in the past. it is
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: really important to get the economy back online in Venezuela
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: after devastation by communist cronies. Now, there's the part where
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: our government is doing it. And there is a private
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: partner in Venezuela.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know who's running that. But I don't want
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: to do a thing where it's like, Our socialism is.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Like better than your socialism because it's still kind of
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: socialist if you have a major stake in a company,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: as Trump is wont to do taking stakes in companies.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: So I want to be super careful about that. And
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I am skeptical of it. And also, it's one of
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: these situations where if you leave the guy there, it's
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a communist dictatorship and he's a criminal who's been indicted
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: in American courts and should be removed.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: We remove him. If you do nothing, you've abandoned Venezuela.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: If you do something with private actors, you're privateering and profiteering.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: If you do something with the U.S. government, you're doing
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the socialism and the imperialism. So, yeah, I would hope
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: we are in a like temporary spot where you can
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: get these things back online and moving to benefit the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Venezuelan people. And I worry about some of the behind
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the scenes and many, many private actors are like, what
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: are we doing here?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: How this is working.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I, that, that's it. If we do nothing, that's
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: also doing something. So I, I trust Rubio. I think that,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: you know, if he says that this is the best
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: path forward, I sort of believe him. I mean, I'm
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: not a hundred percent, but like, he's, he's sort of
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: my guy where if he says it, I'm, I'm, I'm likely.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Going to take it seriously. Um, and, and the.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Fact is that it bothers me that All these news
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: stories are not telling the whole story.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: They're making it seem like Venezuela was living this amazing life.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: And this is the story that's often told about communist countries,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: where if it wasn't for this meddling America, they'd be
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: doing great. And that's just not the case. So all
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: the stories leave out these black market sales to China
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: and to Russia to bolster their economies.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And the fact that we need to step in now
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: is a result of that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Well, and also the fact that Venezuela had been utterly
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: devastated going from one of the most prosperous countries in
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the hemisphere to the least, right?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Like that was the work of the commies. Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I had been there many times as a child before
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: the revolution there. My parents were just, you know, big,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: weird place travelers. So I've been to places in Venezuela
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: that you cannot imagine. And yeah, It wasn't a functioning country.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: It was a normal-ish functioning country. So it's sad that
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: the decline has happened in the last, you know, decades.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And I hope that they turn it around. It can
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: be a normal country again.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: We flagged this over the weekend, you and I, one
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: writer saying, I've been highlighting the possibility of basically a
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: realignment in oil paths that fuel the economy, saying the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Western Hemisphere will be the new OPEC. U.S., Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Guyana, Argentina,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: huge strategic shift coming. And look, some of that, this
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: is like one of those things where... Sometimes Trump things
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: become 4-D chess, but maybe weren't meant to be 4-D chess.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know about the Don Roe Doctrine and whether
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: this was intentional, but the Iran War and the Strait
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of Hormuz clothing has forced some changes in how people
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: move oil around the globe. And if you don't want...
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to be hostage to Iran, then we must do that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Two points on Iran. There do seem to be some
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: developments there. One, there was a big announcement by Besant
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: of new sanctions, which... You know, China's not listening to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: even the UAE is not listening to some of the
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: these warnings, which is like, dude, they're bombing you guys.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Like Iran is bombing you. Why don't you stop interacting
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: with them? But but. apparently they're looking.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: For new ways to squeeze Iran. The Navy has reinstituted
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the blockade on Iran, on Iranian ports.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: So that could put more pressure on this regime whose
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: currency is at the lowest point of trade or trade
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: value in, I don't know, ever, I think.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It's like 2 million rial to a dollar or something
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: like that at this point. So there is tremendous pressure.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: The U.S. Navy has also said that.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And Cintcom has said that it has cleared the Strait
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: of Hormuz of these alleged mines.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: There were probably far fewer functional ones than we were
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: led to believe. And there may have been more Strait...
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: tankers going through throughout without their transponders on than we
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: ever knew. So it's hard to sort truth from fiction
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: in this conflict. And unfortunately, a lot of the media
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: seems really intent on telling the story that Iran is
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: winning at every turn.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: It's bizarre because by what metric is Iran winning? It's
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: just it makes no sense. And of course, Trump doesn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: add to that very well. He this morning, he put
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: out a truth. But So he tweets or truths or
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: whatever it's called. Iran is a failed nation.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: It is dead. All caps. They have no Navy.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: They have no Air Force. They have no currency. They're
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: not paying their soldiers or police. Inflation is at 300
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: percent and their leadership is in total disarray and incapable
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: of properly representing the country. The only thing they have
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: is fake news from the USA, a willingness to kill
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: their protesters, now over 100,000 people dead. They must be
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: tried for war crimes against humanity and a good line
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: of BS. Thank you for your attention to this matter,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: President Donald J.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: Trump.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that he is correct on all that, but
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: this just.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Doesn't come off as... you know, calm, sane, rational. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: wish he would do it in a slightly different way.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think having dived into it this week,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: there do seem to be interesting and important points about
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the pressure that we're putting on Iran. I would also
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: ask why there were any sanctions left on the table
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: when we were actively at war on them. If there
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: were screws to tighten, tighten them six months ago. I
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: think part of that is they don't want to square
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: off with China, which absorbs 90% of Iran's exports. So
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that's part of that, that they're sort of trying to
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: put all this pressure without getting into a real open
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: fight with China. But hopefully this pressure could actually create
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: change because, you know, the IRGC and the bad guys
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: have to be paid to do their work.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And if you don't have money, you can't pay them.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Sure can't. I do think we're in a really good position.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: I think that The Trump administration, you know, isn't declaring
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: victory here because they have seen what happens in like
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: the Bush administration when, you know, mission accomplished and that
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: kind of thing.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I think this is generally.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Over and I don't know why this is so hard
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: for people to admit.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think starting it, as you and I noted,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: with a clearer discussion of what we were trying to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: do would have been the way to go. This is just,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: I think, useful for thinking about the whole conflict when
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: we get in our heads and it feels overwhelming. He
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: talks about it in four acts. One, the intensive airstrikes
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that began on February 28th to the April 7th ceasefire
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: and negotiations. Three, the June 17th memo of understanding, which
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: is now ended. And now back to Iran targeting the
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Strait of Hormuz and us putting economic.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Pressure on Iran. So those are the four segments. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: he thinks that this one means a lot more pressure
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: for Iran and that they can take less than we can.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: We will see what happens and we will keep you
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: all posted. We're going to take a short break and
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: be right back with more on Normally. All right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: We are back on Normally with a First Amendment slash
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: immigration case in federal courts. It'll probably face appeal, but
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: just this is from FIRE, an organization which I do support,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: by the way, financially and otherwise.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: But they went to court over this.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Today, a federal court ruled that the provisions Secretary of
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: State Marco Rubio used in an attempt to deport legal
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: immigrants for their speech are unconstitutional and violate the First Amendment.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression challenged the provisions in
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: August 2025. The ruling affirms a bedrock constitutional principle. This
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: is coming from them. This is not a report.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Rubio and the Trump administration.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Sought to use immigration law to target foreign university students
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and others for deportation based on protected speech, like writing
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: op-eds and attending protests. This was applied to Mahmoud Khalil
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and then Ozturk, who was, I believe, the Rutgers student,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: who was, it seems to me, this is why I'm
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: torn on this one. Ozturk, it does seem to me,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was targeted just for the op-ed.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Mahmoud Khalil did a lot more stuff.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I am less torn on this. I like FIRE. I
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: like a lot of what they do. I think they're
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: wrong here. And the reason I think they're wrong here
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: is because speech can.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Lead to other things.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: So if we have somebody who is here on a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: green card, they're here conditionally.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: They don't have.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: the right to, for example, say, I want to bring
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: down America. If you and I did a podcast like, hey,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: we need to end America. We want to get rid
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: of the Constitution. We think this country is a failure.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: Let's let's get rid of this country. We're American citizens.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And that is one thing. If you have somebody who's
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: here conditionally, it's quite another thing to be saying, I
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: want to destroy this country.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And yes, that's just speech, but it couldn't lead to
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: far more. Yeah.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Someone was tweeting, you know, there's this conflict where it's like, OK,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: so is America a propositional nation?
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Are we a nation where you like you sign on
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and you assimilate and you believe the things we do?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Or are we just never allowed to test that notion?
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: And my my conclusion is, OK, so say this is
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and I think there is an argument that this is
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: consistent with the First Amendment, is that once you get here,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you do have that freedom.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But what's the what's the next step there?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: The next step is that you have to vet the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: intentions of people who come very, very, very, very seriously.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Nothing like we've experienced in the past.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And I would understand totally if various Americans were like, well,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: if we can't.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Kick anyone out once they're here, as it's been, you know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: troublesome to do with even a Khalil who was engaged,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I think, in probably criminal behavior many times over, then
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: why would we let anyone in? That's it. That's really it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: If you want to argue that you know, once you
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: step foot here, you have all the rights and privileges
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: of being an American, then we have to make being
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: an American so much harder to achieve. And I feel
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: like the people arguing, and I don't know about Greg
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Lukianoff and FIRE specifically, because they do stay in their lane.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: They stay very much on speech. But generally, people who.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Argue that we need to give the rights to every
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: single person who enters are also the people that want
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: a lot more people to enter.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Also, what of the lies on the applications, right? If
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you come here and in your application, you had said, no,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I don't definitely don't want to destroy America. And then
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: you get here and that's not true. What do we
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: do about that? That seems like a bigger issue, not
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: as much a speech issue.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Because speech can foment revolution.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: And the fact is that we shouldn't let in people
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: that want to do that here.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Also, I always think about this, like, Every time one
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: of these things comes up, I'm like, imagine me going
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: to France. Right. And thinking I could get away with this.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Like they would never.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: It would never occur to me that I can just
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: go to other countries, overstay my visa, crap on the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: country publicly, do a.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Bunch of crimes.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: But apparently that's that's the thing that we're supposed to.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: In particular, all the Muslim countries like go.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Try to argue that they should have a different frame
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: of government, that they should change the way that they
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: do things and see what happens to you. And the
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: fact is that they do it here because we allow it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: And I don't know that we should allow quite this
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: much to go on.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, it is a privilege to be here.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It's a privilege to be let in. In the past
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: six years, it has become basically like whatever.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Everyone comes through.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: But if these are the rules and you can't control
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: after the fact, then you have to control before the
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: fact very harshly. That'll probably move up in the courts,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: but we'll keep you posted.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll likely be appealed and the Ninth Circuit could
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: uphold or overturn it or make a more narrow decision
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: on that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So we'll see.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: And it might end up at the Supreme Court because
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: this is something that I think the administration really takes
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: seriously and wants to pursue.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: your podcasts.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail.com. Thanks
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: for listening, and when things get weird, act normally.