Latest / Mothering / S1Ep5 | Rose - I Wasn’t Ready To Return To Work. Fetal Abnormalities, Pumping Breastmilk At Work, The Power Of Mothers Groups

Transcript

S1Ep5 | Rose - I Wasn’t Ready To Return To Work. Fetal Abnormalities, Pumping Breastmilk At Work, The Power Of Mothers Groups · Mothering

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_04: This is the one hour where I don't have meetings for the day, and I'm using that lunch break to eat my lunch and pump it in the first aid room.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: And this guy who I work with was like, You right?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, this fucker.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_04: Just pushing out of the family room.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what to do.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_04: And this guy was just like, hey, I got you.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_04: There's a first aid room.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's got a blind, it has a fridge, it's got some water.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_04: Let me take you there right now.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I almost cried.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: There's absolutely no way that if I'm ever in the position to help somebody with their return to work journey, I sure as shit making sure that they have the room.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_04: Something I hadn't really understood that going back to work for me means that on a workday, I only get half an hour with you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's a crazy number.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that's been really difficult.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Mothering Podcast, and I'm your host, Carly.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode I sit down with women who speak honestly about their life-changing transition into motherhood and what becoming a mother actually feels like.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Please be mindful when little ears are listening to this podcast, as we can get a bit sweary and vibrant.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: One last notice to say that this is an inclusive space.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: While we touch on a lot of physical and psychological changes that the female body goes through immatrescence, the use of the term mother can encompass any person who identifies as a mother and takes on that extremely important and nurturing role.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, my friends, and welcome back to another episode of Mothering the Podcast.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, I sat down and talked to Rose, who is a mum to two-year-old Hugo and also works in paid work in government, which requires her and her family to move around a lot.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So in Rose's story, she talks about moving from various cities throughout her pregnancy and postpartum.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Rose describes herself as an extremely organized person, a planner, and much of the conversation around how she transitioned into firstly pregnancy and then motherhood is centered around that aspect of planning and her expectations around how things should happen.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I can relate a lot to that.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a planner myself, and whilst I tried to plan the hell out of my pregnancy and postpartum, motherhood has a way of forcing us to let go and go with the flow.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're also a bit of a type A planner, organizer, this one might resonate really well with you as well.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Rose shares how she absolutely loved being pregnant.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: However, one of the first scans she got was at 16 weeks and it showed an abnormality in her baby.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so that made a really rocky roller coaster ride of emotions for Rose throughout her pregnancy as she had to continually get scans every single fortnight up until the birth.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: A big part of our conversation is around Rose's return to work and the feelings involved in not being ready to go back to work even when you have to.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Rose continued to pump breast milk while she was at work, and she shares a really intense story about an instance that really just shows even modern workplaces are still not set up appropriately, and people are not educated on the importance of having dedicated parents' rooms where women can go and feel comfortable to pump breast milk.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: This conversation also made me think that workplaces should allow a certain type of leave or free time to go and pump breast milk if you do need to do that while you're at work as a returning mum.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that women are expected to do this stuff on their lunch break and in their own personal time, it's not exactly a sign of support from the workplace.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: The last note I'll leave you on is that Rose has a lot of great things to say about mothers' groups.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're an incredible safe space that new mothers can go to where they don't feel like they need to show up as somebody else and they're not feeling judged.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you enjoy this episode.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Rose was honestly such a delight to talk to.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: All the other thing I will say is I am going on a holiday to Switzerland with my family today, as this episode's coming out on Friday, and we are gonna be away for a couple of weeks.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there will not be an episode in a fortnight.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna miss the next one, and then there will be one in a month's time.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being patient with me while I try and navigate this in between my life.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am creating this project in any snippets of small time that I have, which usually equate to night times after my babies are in bed and a dedicated day of the week when my babies are being looked after.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being here.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a spare minute too, I would greatly appreciate if you could go to the app that you're listening on and like or subscribe, leave a comment.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is the best way to get the podcast out to the public and help other mums who need it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's begin.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Mothering Rose.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to start by introducing yourself and who's in your family?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, I'm Rose.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: My son, his name's Hugo, and he turned two in July, and my husband, Rick, is incredibly supportive dad.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: So that's our family.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: And where are you living?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: So living in Oakley at the moment, but have moved around a fair bit.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, in Melbourne.
• 5:38
  unknown: Yep.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what does mothering look like for you at the moment in terms of juggling, caring for your son, and also work and any other projects that you're doing?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so now that Hugo's two back at work four days a week.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_04: We're incredibly lucky.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: So Rick and I and Hugo all have a day together on Wednesdays, and then we also have the weekend, so it's a really nice little midweek break.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: You can do two days of work, and then you have a little family day, and then you do another two days of work, and then you get the weekend.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So nice.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's really precious in how I view time is probably a little bit different from before.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is having children something that you always wanted?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it something that you decided later on in life?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think I always thought I would be a mum.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_04: That just seemed like it would be something in the pathway.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: When Rick and I got together, one of the first kind of questions not on the first date of like when I ordered my wine, but pretty soon in that conversation was a I'm not here to waste time, but if you're interested in children or if you're not, and that was a pretty good opener to know that we were both on the same page.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so what was your journey into pregnancy and conception?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: I really like to plan.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I remember it in a weird way because we'd come back from our honeymoon, and in my head I was like, Alright, at this particular month we'll start trying, and then we'll get pregnant, and then nine months later, a real like an idiot.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like an idiot.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'd known that wasn't the case, but in my head I was like, that's the plan.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you plan it, it will happen.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, but I've done everything right.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm taking all the vertebrates, I'm making sure I'm healthy, I'm making sure I'm fit, blah blah blah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that's kind of how you run your life normally?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: P prior to being a mum.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: Very organized, even if you plan for it, but have backup plans, and one of those will work.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: But getting pregnant, we were really we were so lucky.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: We got pregnant, I think it was maybe four months of trying.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: So relatively quickly.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: I'd been sent away for work and I'd taken a pregnancy test just before I left.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: And it was negative.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, fine, and I knew I was gonna miss the next window because I was away from work, so I was like, ah, I'm gonna miss sexual window, like it's not gonna be till next year, like flipping a table.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd had to do some work in a different state.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh, I've missed my period.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, this has happened before, your cycle's relatively long.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Don't get your hopes up.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: Don't get your hopes up because I'd done that kind of every month.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard not to.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're counting on it to work and happen.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: When people say just relax, it's like I can't relax.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I really want a baby.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we'd done fertility testing and genetic testing beforehand.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm a carrier for both CF and SMA.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: And my mum had lost one of her kids because both her partner at the time and her were the SMA carriers, and so they lost their son in hospital.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask what SMA is?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know the other one's cystic fibrosis.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's like muscular atrophy.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_04: Is the now I'm like, well, I've got to check the actual term.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because back when it was mum's, it was called Werning Hoffman disease, which is what I ended up taking to the geneticist team to go.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm aware that this is in my family.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Can we please do some testing on myself and my husband to make sure that we're not in the same boat?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: And we'd done that before we got married.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: We might have even done that before we were engaged.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: I think we'd done it three to four years in advance.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm a cystic fibrosis carrier, and I didn't find out until I was pregnant, I think.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking back, yeah, I was already pregnant.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my doctor was like, Oh, you should just do all these standard genetic tests just to be sure.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, I think we're good.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then it came back, and I was like, Whoa, my whole world just came crumbling down, and I was just hoping that Casper wasn't a carrier, and he wasn't in the end.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously it could still be passed on to your children, but the risk is so much lower.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you're both carriers, it's one in four or something.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: They were talking to us about I guess those elements, but luckily Rick wasn't a carrier for either of them.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: So when we're talking about the pregnancy journey, we're talking about each month, like I was getting upset, and Rick was like, You told me this could take 12 months, like I don't understand why you're upset.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, it's really hard to explain because you're hoping for a baby.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: Every month you're hoping for a baby, and then seeing the negative line, you're like, Alright, just keep going.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the worry that what if I can't get pregnant?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is this something that's not gonna happen every month that goes past?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: And because of how my brain works, of oh, we got the genetic testing and then we got the fertility testing to make sure we were both extremely high.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, What why isn't this happening?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've done everything by the book, like we've done all the checks, and so then I was like, don't get too excited, just wait.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then I waited another few days.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't have any symptoms, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: There wasn't anything that was making me be like, you should get a pregnancy test, but it was more going.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: I need to know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and then it was, and I remember ringing my husband, and he was gaming.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: This this whole gaming setup is not mine, this is his.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I called.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: Our standard thing is if I call like in short succession, that's a pick up the phone.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he answered it and was like, What?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: I need you to get off the phone.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was like obviously so excited, and then his response was not we were not on the same page, and I'm like, hang up, and he's like, I'm in the middle, and I'm like, trust me, just do it.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it's a phone call I'll always remember because we were in separate states, and we were like, Yeah, I'd like to get prepared, beautiful, gonna be a dad.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, You're gonna be a mum, and I'm like, It really is the best moment in all of it, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, having your baby in your arms for the first time is incredible, but that moment is just so incredible because you're like, Fuck yes, it happened, it's happening, we're doing this, I can get pregnant.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh and so how did that kind of eventuate into pregnancy?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to talk a little bit about your feelings about pregnancy?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Was it easy for you or did a few things come up?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like I might be the minority.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: I loved being pregnant.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: I adored just the safety.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Does that make sense?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but even before I could feel Hugo kicking, there was like a really big part of me going, my body is ready for this, I'm mentally ready for this.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: As I said, very much a planner type person, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm emotionally ready, I'm getting myself physically ready.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: But we did unfortunately have some not great news at the beginning of the pregnancy.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I had to move around a bit from different states, so had different medical care.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone says that you get a scan, but the exact weeks and you're not talking to people saying that you're pregnant yet.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: For me, I wasn't talking to people in case we lost the baby.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: I told my best friend because I was like, I think it's a good idea to talk tell people that you are gonna then need to support you, regardless of which way it goes, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: But in the I say the chaos, we were moving from Queensland down to Sydney, and the basics of getting like a 13-week scan didn't happen.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the first time that I had a scan was at 16 weeks.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: And they found an abnormality during that scan, but they didn't tell me whilst I'm having the scan.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: The next day.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: And yet again, I remember it so vividly.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like so many things happen in your life, but like key moments become ingrained, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_04: Ugh.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I'm shaking now because I'm like, it's all fine, he's healthy, it's okay, but still at the time, it was huge because I'd gotten a phone call from work, like whilst I was at work, which in of itself unusual.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: And they called going.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they didn't even tell you while you were there.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: They let you go home.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: So it looks like the person who identified the problem was afterwards.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know the word, but the lady who did the scan didn't see it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: The sonographer didn't see it, but the head scenographer.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: They have other people review it now that I'm thinking about that.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it was just weird how it happened because I got a phone call from their team going, Hi, are you prepared to get a phone call from Dr.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: Such and Such, who is head scenographer from such and such?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, sure.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, stand by your phone, we'll call you in five minutes.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, Oh my god.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then of course, I'm freaking out because the very first time anything has happened, the next day they're like, all serious, like, no, have a nice day at the end of that phone call, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like they were just and so then I'm sitting there waiting for this to happen.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Painful.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: To then get the phone call from the doctor to go.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_04: I need you to get yourself to I think it was Penrith Hospital.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was a hospital I hadn't been to.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, okay, it was 10 a.m.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: and so I had meetings up at 2.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was like, Alright, I can be there at about 2 30, it's about half an hour from work.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: And he was like, I have a spot for you at 11am, and I expect you to be there.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: You need you need to be there.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, sorry.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: I remember coming out of my office speaking to the 20-something year old and my team to be like, Hey Jack, I don't know what's happening, but I have to go to the hospital.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: Don't freak out.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: Can you cover my meetings for me for the next couple hours?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, absolutely good luck.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so they didn't they didn't give you any information.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Didn't they said that I was required to have an immediate follow-up scan, which is why they had to have it at a particular hospital.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: The guy greets me, he's like, hello, come through.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't even let me sit down.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: They were like, Yep, we've been waiting for you, go do this scan.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: So at this point, I'm like, alright, something's wrong.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: But they did this scan, able to get dressed, sit down at an office, and they're like, hey, your baby has a blockage within the decimal track.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna have to monitor it, but there's nothing you can do.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, thank you.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: What does this mean?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: Give me something.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: They're like, oh, it could be a bunch of things, and I'm like, tell me.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Tell start with the worst and tell me.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: And probably on my own head for saying start with the worst and then go down.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because the f the the worst situation was if this keeps developing, your son I knew it was a boy at that point, but your son will require surgery upon birth because he's able to get nutrients and food now in the placenter, but he won't be able to take food in the wrong way, so we'll require surgery.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, sweet, what are the statistics on that?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because I a hundred percent defaulted to tell me the risks, tell me the things, blah blah blah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: And he was like, Alright, nine out of ten chance that everything will be fine with the surgery.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, okay, so you're telling me there's a ten percent chance that we do surgery and this goes wrong and my baby could die.
• 18:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: So not the best bed manners by any chance.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm just so shocking.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: I know this doctor has told me there's a 10% chance that your baby might die upon birth.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: And all my logic, all my years of how I identified as a person just went out the window in that moment.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I understand that I asked for the worst first.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe that wasn't the best way to do it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: I understand I'm the same.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm the same.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, don't give me the sweet little bits up until the worst.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just tell me.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me straight and then come down.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then everything else was significantly less after that, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: But I just remember bawling my eyes out having to be like, Do you have any tissues?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, in this entire room.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, wait, what?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, this is the room where you tell women that there is a problem.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: And there's not a box of tissues.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: That was where my mind went.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you are a poorly prepared man.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: Go again.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a feedback form.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, Where's your I would like to speak to you about it?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, come on, mate.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: So then I had to have every fortnight in a very particular hospital.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_04: Really good one in New South Wales, my dad, phenomenal.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: But every fortnight.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: So every fortnight we were tracking the progress.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Because at the time he was 13 centimetres long, and it was like a seven millimeter blockage.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: So proportionately they were very concerned.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: And every fortnight we had to track what was happening.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just juggling that with trying to work as well, just the practicalities and logistics of getting to appointments and it interrupting your day, and then probably going through the mental roller coaster of having to think about it so deeply every single fortnight.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just get on with your life would have been this huge event as well.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: I I think that was from a pregnancy perspective, I think that was the that was mentally incredibly tough because you go on a cycle of you have the appointment, oh thank God it hasn't gotten any bigger, hasn't gotten any worse.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: We'll see you in another 13 days.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so you anticipate up until the point of the exam and then you come back down to go, oh thank god, and then you go up again.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: So it made the pregnancy a little less enjoyable.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just overrides the joy because you're just anxious.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just so upset because there was literally nothing I could do.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it really overshadowed and it really had an impact on myself and my husband.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: And not that that we like very happy with how our birth story went, but like we went to Paramount, and the reason why is because they had an ICU.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, a NICU, rather, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: But that was the whole thing.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you were having scans all the way up until birth.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Far out.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: Because they were content.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And did they want to intervene with your birth plans at all?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Did they want to induce you?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: No, there was it was more of the fact that we knew upon birth we needed to monitor.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I might skip ahead.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: And within five to fifteen minutes after we bought it, Hugo pooed, and literally the whole room cheered.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: It was That's so good.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it was like quarter past midnight.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: And you've just got the OB cheering, me cheering, Rick cheering, this midwife who had no idea why are we cheering, and it's like, this is this is the most appropriate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Important thing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I had the baby, but we were still in that waiting part-time frame of I've had the baby, but make sure that he's okay.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: We don't have to be prepping to go.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Man, Hugo's gonna go places, man.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's getting applause for his first poo.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: He was like, Yes.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Don't expect this every time, kid.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I guess pregnancy as a general, that's what it was for me.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it was probably a little bit more isolating.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: We didn't have any friends or family in Sydney.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess because we got that news, some of the other ones was okay, he might have a really rare form of the CF that even though Rick's not a carrier, you might have to do this.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: We were like, yep, we're we're going back to Melbourne.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna need support.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: So at what point in your postpartum did you guys get up and move to Melbourne?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_04: Three months we came down to Melbourne, and that's when we moved to Askelvale.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Did you fly?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I flew.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to think like logistically with a three-month-old.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I flew with Hugo and then Rick drove with our dog who's just sitting there, and our stuff to come down.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And Hugo was great on the flight, breastfed.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: He was fine.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: Rick always makes the comment that Hugh's been on more flights than he has in his two years, because he's been on six or seven flights with me.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, we moved to Melbourne to be close to to family.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I might rewind and talk a little bit about what your perception of having your baby and the reality of it and what that gap was in terms of you being prepared to have your baby and then having it.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And especially, like you say, not having any family around.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Could you just talk briefly about those first few days and what that felt like and how that was for you guys and practically if anyone came up to help you guys?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: We were really lucky.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: So Rick had, I think, two weeks off from work at the start, which is not enough, Mat I had.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna put a point in that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: I remember us talking, we'd like, oh, it'd be really good if the baby came on Friday afternoon so that we could have a longer two-week period.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: What a silly thing to say now.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Two weeks?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ex Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um far out.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Things are only just starting to get chaotic.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: It feels a little fuzzy, I must admit.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like thinking back at like he's two now.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh what was it like the first few days?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think the first few days there was a bit of awe and fear.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_04: Look at this is the baby we made.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: And fear of oh my god, we are wholly responsible.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_04: Or there's no nurse coming back home with us.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_04: There's no medical professional.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_04: There's no mum.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: There's no there's no anything else.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_04: It is just us.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I really enjoyed our first couple of weeks together as a family because that was like it was just us.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: And we just did things in our own time.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I was breastfeeding, which was really important for me.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that part was probably the biggest gap.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like everyone talks about.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: You don't get sleep, the baby will cry.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you've got to do one of the the four things, whether it's the baby needs to poop, the baby needs to burp, the baby needs to eat, the baby needs to have a nap.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: There's just a whole gap on like breastfeeding is really hard.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: If you're uh trying to sleep and it doesn't work out right timings, like you wake up and you're like, oh my goodness, I'm in pain.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_04: Engorged.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Engorged full of milk.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or you're rolling over and you're like, oh, I gotta clean that up later, don't I?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's also on me to do because it's insane.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just felt so unprepared for all the things, especially breastfeeding.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that description actually is so gold of like your boobs feeling so sore, and then also just milk being all over the bed and leaking, and it's just it's really messy work.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And your whole body is different.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: I remember waking up and it was within the first week or so, and I felt my stomach and was like, Where's the baby?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then being like, he's sleeping next to you, you idiot.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like he's right there.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: But just the mental part of I haven't felt the baby kick.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're holding him, he's over there.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: Calm down, but your brain's not and your body's not the same.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: We had stairs, and I was like, after just a 28 hours of labour.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm looking at my two-story place being like, I can do it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm like, can I do it whilst carrying a baby and a load of washing?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: One of these things.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And all the space inside your uterus and your stomach and your vagina has just changed.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was all holding itself up and now it's all just relaxed and yeah, walking upstairs, difficult.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I also didn't ask you about your birth.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have a vaginal birth or a cesarean birth?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: We did the classic where it's like, alright, we're gonna have the tea and the dates and the spicy food and the sex and the baby's gonna come.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_04: And he did.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because at that point 39 weeks, and I was like, Alright, time for a baby.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: We can do it now.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: So we'd done a hypno birth in class as prep.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: So when I say when it really got going, Rick was doing the pressure points on my hips, and I swear we did about a thousand squats.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because every contraction, my brain just defaulted to if you squat, you'll feel better.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: Based off nothing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Based off intuition, your body's like, you need to open up.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: It was a hundred percent just some sort of callie was like, Alright, this is how you feel the best, and this is how you breathe.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: Just focus it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: I think the most focused I've ever been was about ten minutes before the OB came because they'd done an exam.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd arrived at hospital and I was at seven centimetres, which was good effort.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: On your own, yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd only come in because the midwife that was on duty was a midwife that had been in my care, like in my care team.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, sweet, Deanne's there, I'll rock in.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Now's a good time.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so I rocked up and I was seven centimeters.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so everyone's like, we're seeing this baby today.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that didn't happen.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_04: So then I can't remember how many hours it was, but if Deanne had left, it had been a change of midwife, they were very keen for alternative actions, and I'd written a birth plan because that's what I'm like.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's planned.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's planned, right?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I don't want any interventions, I don't want this, I don't want this, I'm happy to discuss everything.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: People poo-poo birth plans all the time, but I actually think they're really important for at least getting down on paper what you don't want.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: All the the steps you want to take before something happens, like what some sort of intervention happens.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I read this book called The Birth Roadmap.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all it's not gonna be a plan.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's if this happens, then this is how I want it to happen.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if this happens, then this is how I want it to happen.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote down how I want my cesarean to look if I end up having to have a cesarean, and I'll link the book in the show notes if anyone's interested.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I found that so useful because I know so many things can happen in birth, but it really got me to think about what I would want to happen in all those scenarios.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love that you brought up your birth plan.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's so gold, and it they are really useful.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the biggest I won't get teary about it, but like my husband was phenomenal.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like he protected the space.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's their job.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's their one job.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: And like we'd had that chat, like we'd done the hypnobirthing class, I had written my plan, I'd given it to him to be like any questions, and he was like really into it, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like he was like, Hey, does this mean the same thing that I think it means?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like crying with girl, get it and particularly when so I was like walking the halls.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: We had this little box, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: And in the box for the room was fake candles, a little diffuser with sage or clarity or whatever I decided to bring Hugo's little ultrasound picture.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: And he made the room beautiful.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like he was like, I got you to stand over there, effectively, focus in.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: Here's a picture and brought pictures of everything.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: So, like my favorite places, my hipno-birthing tracks, the speaker, like the whole thing.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it was amazing.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't eat like I didn't have to think, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was just there.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it was such a beautiful way for Hugo to come into the world of so much love from both of us.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So beautiful.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 31:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you thought you were gonna have your baby that day.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, didn't took a bit of time.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Took a bit of time midwife shift change, which is honestly the worst for your mental state, because I had a home birth with my first, but I had a hospital birth with my second, and the first time of experiencing that of you're working with someone who is super incredible, and then you get a shift change.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I know everyone has their own stories, sometimes it's the opposite way around, and the one that you gel with comes in when you're having a baby.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it was like I had a really good one at the start, and then the shift changed, and I did not vibe my midwife who I was left with.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was just mentally destroying for me.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know where you were gonna go with your story, but that just re-jogged my memory of the shift change.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was hard because like obviously you're in the zone, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're breathing through contractions, you're doing your whole thing, but then to physically see that you haven't made it the failure because as I said, when I came in, I was at seven centimetres.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: We all knew she had another seven to eight hours on shift.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: The comment had been, I'm gonna see this baby.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I jailed really well with her.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: She knew my whole history, she knew what I was concerned about, and then to to have her leave Yeah was just like watching your support leave through the door and be like, oh okay.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: But just as a quick little one, like the most focused I think I've ever been in my entire life was I had an exam and I was still at seven centimetres.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that entire time I didn't progress in hospital.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, we're really sorry.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: We have to call the OB because like there were certain time limits that the hospital had for certain aspects, which like I knew, right?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: 100% knew.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew that they needed to have the conversation about a cesarean, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's the you haven't progressed, we're at the time period.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_04: And all I remember saying to Rick so fucked.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh like, sorry, you haven't completed this task as per the book.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Are you not a robot?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just like I'm currently being monitored.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the room where you can now you have to perform, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I just remember saying to Rick, because they had to do the exam.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, sorry, they didn't have to do the exam.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: I let it happen, right?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, ah, I understand for your for your time frames, but you don't have to tell me.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: But then at that point, I was like, just tell me because I've been here for ages and really sorry.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_04: Still at seven.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, this can't be happening.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, hey, we need to have a discussion.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I just remember saying to Rick, I'm like, leave.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_04: You and her, get out.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: I do not want to be part of this conversation.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: I do not want to hear the options.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: Rick, you are my advocate.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: Get get out.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: Smart and the most focused, I swear to god, I've ever been.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was like, Alright, I don't know where the OB lives, but likely it's 15 to 20 minutes.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Make it happen, Rose.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so Hugo had been the wrong way round.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: So you're supposed to face this way.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_04: So the left.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, your head's supposed to be able to come out that way.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: But he was the wrong way round.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, posterior.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: When he was trying to come down, he was hitting my hip.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I was in significant pain.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_04: But in that like 20 minutes, I just had a conversation with my baby.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Alright, mate.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's so amazing.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: Now or never, the Obi came back in.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, hey, I gotta do an exam.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I was kind of like, Alright, it is what it is.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: Done what I can.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And the Obi's like, Alright, we're having a baby.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, You're 10 centimetres, here's the right way round.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Let's do it.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go take.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, as you wet, let's do this.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then honestly, that's like the the pushing part itself was really quite easy comparatively because he was the right way around.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I wasn't in pain on my hips.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think mentally you know it's the end.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're like, they are coming out.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to fing get through this bit, and then it's done.
• 35:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I am meeting my baby now.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm bearing down, I'm on all fools, I've got my little picture.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: Rick is saying very encouraging words, howling.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh a hundred feet.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_04: Making all the noises.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: Making all the noises, doing all the things.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I roared him out.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm crying.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm pulling him up to put him onto my chest.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: So good.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: It was one of the best days of my life.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he didn't have to go to Nico.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: That was honestly that like as soon as he pooed, we all cheered and we're like, oh, because we could finally relax.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so did you stay a night there or did you uh we stayed a couple?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: So we were there for a couple of nights, which was really great.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: There's cakes brought to us.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did you also have the influx of random hospital people coming in being like, would you like a photo shoot?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm from the kitchen.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like this meal?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna clean your room now.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And would you like your room cleaned?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like every five minutes I was in the postpartum ward, I was like, I just can I just chill and be with my baby for a minute?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: But they've got this whole system.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'd forgotten about that until you've just mentioned it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, could we not?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm naked.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_04: Breastfeeding, more to the point.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: A knock and then walking in is not what's the purpose of the knock, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll dress myself in that in 0.5 of a second.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, could I just get time to maybe not be hello world, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you guys headed home and how did your breastfeeding go?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Did you end up getting the hang of it, or did you need to call in some support?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we were super lucky.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: There was like a breastfeeding lactation support in the hospital specific.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: So it wasn't really working out on day one.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_04: That was a little hard at first because I had to pump to then give it to Hugo in a bottle.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you were double feeding.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a lot of time, and then I wasn't getting the on the skin.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like start with the pamphlets in.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's a natural process, so this should just work.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a learnt skill.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a learnt skill, and you have to be shown, and that is totally missing.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I find the midwives come in and they check on you and they're like, why don't you try this and why don't you try this?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the problem is every midwife has a different way of doing it.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And having four different midwives tell you their version of breastfeeding does not help the situation.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're sitting there and you're getting frustrated and you're like, I tried that before, or that that midwife told me not to do that, or I think one thing that now that we're talking about, I'm like, oh yeah, that was weird.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: There was a point where they thought Hugo was jaundice.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: So not only did we now have to pump to put in a bottle to feed to him, we also needed to make sure that we were next to a window to get the max but you can't leave.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: But you had to get as much sunlight into the baby as you possibly could without leaving.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_04: For them to then map a little chart to see where he was.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So wild because I've had two jaundice babies and they told me that vitamin D from the sun does not make a difference.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: They made us.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: They had to go under the proper lights.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is so crazy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: As in like crazy that we've received two different pieces of in a very similar time window, right?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: Our kids are assimilated.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: I just remembered being like, okay, we need to do this.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then there was a lot of questions.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Which side did you feed on and how long for?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: And when we finally got a good position.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we found one that worked well, whereas like like he was both ways.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, this is really unsustainable for where we get home.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Am I gonna go and lie down every time?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: And wait feet.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: What is like how do we?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, no, that was it was in like I had a pretty good time in the hospital in the sense of we just took it as here's advice.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: But I was pretty set on well take what bits we want and we'll leave all the rest.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: But it was a bit good mindset.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I think that would have been a bit of advice from some people.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: Someone who said, just look, they're all trying to help.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Just take it as they're helping, take it in the most positive way you can, and then just take the bits that you want.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: Take that box of chocolates and be like, I like that one.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: That one and this one.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to fast forward a little bit now and talk about returning to work and having a baby and how much time you initially had off on maternity leave and your thoughts about returning and that era?
• 40:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um so a lot happened for us in the first twelve months of Hugo's life.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: So we were in Sydney, then three months later we moved to Melbourne, and then I was really lucky.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: I had 12 months off.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't go back until Hugo turned one, and then the next day I went to work.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the things that was really helpful for me was I knew when we were leaving Sydney, going back to Melbourne, that I didn't have any friends close by that would have kids when we were moving to Ascot.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I contacted the paternal child health council.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the council to be like, hi, please help.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a first-time mum, I have no friends with children, what's available?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, Oh, we have this one group that by the time you get here they'll be on their second last week.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think about that?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because they were effectively like you could start with a brand new group and do the whole thing, but your kids will be off.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, I'd much rather just stick with kids that are almost the same age, because so much can happen in those weeks and months.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: Which was really lovely because that's how I got into that mothers' group.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's great you had that initiative to call because I think I think lots of people don't know unless people that have had kids and you're aware that there are council-run mothers' groups, at least in Melbourne.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find out?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: My best friend.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: So her daughter is a couple of years older.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was I was pretty alone in Melbourne, in not Melbourne, in Sydney.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember calling at late time being just like this is why this is a whole thing.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I've got all these questions about things.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have a network of people who are doing like the same things that I am currently.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: And she was the one who was like, Hey, do you know that there's a mother's group or like a parents group that the council runs?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: And she like sent it to me.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: She's like, Where are you gonna be living?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: And really supported me.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think if I didn't have that, then that the mothering journey would be uh would have been really different.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the mothers' groups are honestly a lifeline.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I know not all places offer them.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, if you're in a small town or I don't even know if all the capital cities do it, but they are honestly the greatest lifeline because you can have so many beautiful people in your life, with even if they've got kids, but to go through that journey with people who have the same aged child, and like you said, they changed so much in that first like especially first three, six months, and to know that they're all around the same age and they're all going through the same sleep struggles and feeding struggles, and you just feel like you can be so brutally honest about everything.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other great thing is people have amazing ways to share tips and help each other, and it's actually useful because it could help in that moment rather than someone with a three.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: year old telling you like, have you tried this sleeping thing?
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, you don't even know what it's like to have a two-week old newboard anymore.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't even just You could show up exactly as you were.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like that was it.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was key.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like that in of itself was huge because I didn't know who I was as a person anymore.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like And none of your clothes fit.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and you're probably wearing leggings every day or pajamas and everyone else is there wearing pajamas and leggings and you're like fuck yes thank you.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: I swear I had three shirts and two pairs of leggings.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think that was just such a it was such a space where you could just show up and when somebody said hey hey I don't wasn't and now I need you to say oh I'm great thank you like you could be Hugo threw up in my hair.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right like you could be so honest and you could share whatever you felt like Sherry whether that be hey I don't know how I see myself as a wife anymore now that I'm a mother or could do you know what I mean?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think our group was really lovely.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that really helped we had a really lovely group to the point where even like this weekend we're all going to the park and doing like a two-year-old celebration because all the babies are now two yeah some groups you just gel with and some you get unlucky with I was saying earlier my first mother's group were all lovely people but no one there I really gelled with and I was lucky enough to get into a second mother's group when I had my second baby which I have found out that really only a few councils do it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the city of Melbourne at the time in Kensington and they they allowed mums with subsequent kids to come in and be part of the mother's group but I've since spoken to other people in other council areas in Melbourne and they're like what I wasn't allowed to join a mother's group which is actually really fucked because that is obviously new mums absolutely need the mother's group but when you're going through that whole transition again with juggling multiple kids like you need a safe space to go as well where you can have a feral toddler running around that's like probably wearing three-day old clothes and hasn't brushed their hair because you're looking after a newborn as well and yeah that was a real lifeline for me.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was a couple of other mums there that had two or three children as well and I find it really concerning that councils don't open up those mothers groups for mothers having subsequent kids.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't understand why because it's also positive for the group in that you now have these mothers that have been through it and can offer just a listening ear or a kind of in a different place to look back on all that stuff that happens the first time and just be like you're gonna be alright and this is all going to pass and what's happening to your baby is totally normal and you take on this bit of a mother hen role and I think it can diffuse a lot of stress in the group as well if people are freaking out about like texting at 3am being like oh my god this is happening to my baby and I don't know what to do and should I go to the hospital or call the nurse and you could just try this and then see how you go and the mothers groups are really gold and I just I don't know I want to do something to advocate to councils to get them to open up to more people.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe like based on what criteria right sorry you've been through this before therefore this is an unavailable resource for you slash support now right like that's so And it's not even funding because the class is being held we had 20 people in our Kensington group and and it was great and people slowly died off if they didn't want to come anymore and if they've got concerns with numbers I don't think they have to be concerned because the more people there means more people are going to find their like minded people within that group.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I yeah like you I'm just like I'm baffled I don't know why.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah and it wouldn't it as you said it was such an experience for anyone who's in that group right who is considering two, three four however many children and this is their first time you think it would be really lovely to go, oh this is what it will look like at having a three and an eighteen month like it's also that that knowledge sharing even just expectations of yourself.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah because I think maybe there's probably a lot of expectations that we put on ourselves to like I put a lot of expectation on myself where I thought we should be like how we should be at social gatherings how we should do XYZ but I think it would be really valuable.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I hope we can I hope we can Yeah I'm gonna think about starting a petition and they you could even do it where you could be like to the council all right if you wanted to sign up as a group that allows subsequent children or if you don't right because then they could then have a baseline to go these particular mothers didn't or parents didn't want to and these particular did and then I'm pretty sure the evidence would say sure bring support support for everybody.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what I mean?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: Give them that we can talk later about it.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's odd.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to talk a little bit about that time where you were going back to work and what you guys did for care for Hugo and yeah how you felt we Oh hi Putty hello I'm gonna guess that the other members of my house are home.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give me one second?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna open the door so that she can get out so the question was about coming back to work yeah coming back to work and what you guys did for care with Hugo and how you felt around that time returning to work.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_04: We were incredibly fortunate I returned to work three days a week originally so for six months and my husband returned to work four days a week so we still had three days of just us which was so beautiful.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then we were really lucky that both my mother-in-law and my father were able to provide care for Hugo so they both took him at first one day each and then he had one day in daycare and then it's now progressed that the second six months I did four days a week so now my dad looks after Hugo two days and Mimi looks after him one day.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh great and it made That's amazing it just makes my heart feel a bit more ready.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't ready to leave Hugo I didn't really want to go back to work to be honest.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: But do you feel like you had to I had to play it out like you were ready?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_04: I remember people asking me it when I got back to work They're like ah it has a feel to have baby and I would default setting to oh it's really nice to go to the bathroom by myself because that was the appropriate joke that people with kids got do you know what I mean?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: And people who don't have kids are just like can't even imagine what that's like for you.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like here is a joke that appeases both parties without having to go deeper because they're not they're not really asking yeah they're being nice.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_04: They're being nice.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: What about with your friends and family were you able to be honest ah I think I probably held that a bit back because I was so lucky to have 12 months.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the stuff that I'd read was like within the first three years for a child is formative developing nurture evolution like the El Shebang.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Did you read that book?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: I did I loved that book side note I'll put it in the show notes it is an incredible book by a neuroscientist.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah I think she's a neuroscientist neuroscientist I'm gonna forget her last name.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah but anyway really great I feel like that should be a book that every single parent to be reads it explains the biology of attachment so well based on all the evidence-based studies and the way she talks about attachment and physical touch with your child is just so beautiful.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't read it until I was about four months into having my first my daughter Isla and I remember listening to it walking around the streets with her strapped in my carrier being like oh my god I am doing it right.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah not that's right and I totally get that some people can't have a baby strapped to them because it's just your body can't take it or the baby whatever.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a better way to say is that's what that's why it felt so good to have my baby on me is because we're like primed to do that.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway I digress.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Please continue your part no I enjoy the passion around it I it got recommended to me from a a friend because I was really struggling with Hugo's sleep.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: So he didn't he sort of doesn't sleep well but which is always a fun question was like how's he sleeping?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like terribly help.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Such a fucking shit question at least never ask unless you're like seriously a mum to mum being like how is the sleep?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're just somebody else don't ask how the sleep is shit.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: I swear that was one of the questions that I came back to work and I was like I don't think you want to know that I've only had three hours sleep because I'm also your boss right I'm making all these decisions off three hours of sleep.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah but I that's that's when the book got recommended to me because I was having a lot of trouble.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_04: I want to give like I feel that it's right for me to parent Hugo this way which was very aligning with the the nurture piece a lot and co-sleeping and all what all of what that looked like right so did you guys start off not co-sleeping?
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and then did the book change your views?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah we started with him in the bassinet next to the bed so co-sleeper esque but then we just found like I particularly found that it was a lot easier for me for co-sleeping but then obviously had quite a few restrictions around what that looked like.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: But then when I found that book that was a a lot later on.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because if there's support it's support in the first year for new months.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_04: Where people check in or whatever.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: But then after that it's like you've done it for a year.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: See yeah you're good.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I for me it was a huge change because I was like alright I'm coming back to work and I'm still breastfeeding so now I'm pumping in the spare room at the office.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because he didn't show any signs of not wanting breast milk.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_04: So then that was really struggling for me because I'd have half an hour for lunch and I'm using that lunch break to eat my lunch and pump in a side room in the first aid room.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing in the first aid room.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did they even have a fridge for you?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh they didn't but I had a little bag that I was like this is my breast milk bag put it in the bag.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: There was there's not there wasn't a parent's room.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did anyone at your work know you were doing that?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is the shit mums are doing all the time.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so grateful to one of the guys I work with.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_04: In context he doesn't have children at all I say young young younger than me but someone in the office decided to utilize the dedicated parents room for a meeting because it had a computer in it so not as a parent's room and I'd gone down knocked on the door because it was closed I'm like oh that's weird.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: So opened it and he's like oh I'm on a meeting I'm like I don't care mate this is the family room like what are you doing?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I then got pushed out and this isn't the nice guy obviously this is the person who I was upset about.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've come at and I've been effectively like pushed out of the family room and I'm like I'm in pain.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: I had a very strict window of this is the one hour where I don't have meetings for the day or I don't have roles whatever.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've come back upstairs and like I'm upset and this guy who I work with was like you're right like something's amiss here and I was like this fucker just pushing out of the family room this is shit.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what to do like not going to the bathroom I live like an hour away from home so like I don't have the ability and all the other meeting rooms all have windows with no blinds you don't want to pump breast smell I don't want to pump breast from from this paper and so I just remember like I don't swear at work and I was like fuck and this guy was just like hey I got you there's a first aid room it's got a blind it has a fridge it's got some water let me take you there right now and I almost cried like thank you pull myself together like because he was like the boss is like upset.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was just so nice yeah like probably being seen for the fucking work that you're doing on top of living your life like he is not only are you coming to work like this guy but you've done a load of work before you're even getting to work.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you haven't even slept a proper night in fucking months over a year probably because you don't sleep when you're pregnant either.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah your breasts are full of milk and you can't physically feed your baby like your whole body is just yearning to do.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just wanting to do this one fucking task to relieve some pain and gather the milk for your baby to drink as well and in that moment he was able to see you for that and you are like thank you for recognizing me as a mother.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah he was so good and it was just like the moment to be like okay like I don't know the words but it was just it's just one of those things that will stick with me because when people talk about returning to work there's absolutely no way that if I'm ever in the position to help somebody when they with their return to work journey I sure as shit and making sure that they have the room and making sure that even just just the support like because that one in particular was on a different floor as well and I hadn't scoped the building to find options that he knew about it, told me did the thing so I'm like yeah this is something that I'd love to pay forward.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you unnamed colleague he's great you're awesome he's great yeah thank you so much for sharing that story.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that it's an emotional one and I totally get why I think returning to work for mums is it's like a whole nother world because the person you were when you left is not the person you are when you're coming back and the way you behaved at work and performed at work.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're expected to do all the same but internally everything has changed within you and your priorities have changed.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have this other sweet little human being in your life that you're constantly thinking about and constantly wanting to be with and you also have to juggle being at work and being your work self.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah I totally get there are emotions around that.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's still quite hard.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think at this point in time in my life I can be like oh we're nailing it do you know what I mean?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_04: Something that really got to me the other day was on a workday Rick and I get to have half an hour with Hugo that is not dedicated to other stuff right that's a crazy number because like the workday for me including transit is ten hours.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you look at it I'm like alright I'm really lucky now because Hugo sleeps I say sleeps at he's still asleep at 6am and then when I leave home at 7 to get to work he's still asleep so I I don't get to see my baby.
• 1:01:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_04: Who is not a baby but like he's still he's gonna be 21 is still my baby.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_04: But like I don't get to see right like I don't get to see my baby then and then so I do a full workday finish sometime 435 ish and then it's an hour to get home.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: So the first time we get to see him is like best case scenario for 530 and then often for us it's we walk the dog or Hugo and I or our dog Potsy and then Rick will be making dinner and so we're eating dinner at 6.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_04: 6 to 630 of doing dinnery stuff which I mean you've got kids you know how dinner can go.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: Could be an amazing experience could be a terrible experience could be anywhere in between right?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_04: And you've got to be present for that.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's not I'm just eating dinner.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's all all the things that come with it which is still family time but it's still like a It's chaos it's not heart to heart.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like let's read a book.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah it's nothing like that.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do something beautiful.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so then that's 630 645ish and then it's pack up of dinner which is always fun with a toddler who was helping which is also super sweet.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then you get that half an hour between seven and seven thirty for us which is the time and then it's start bedtime routine and that's it.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that's I think that's something that I hadn't really understood that going back to work for me means that I only get half an hour with my son of what I term quality time versus chort time.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_04: And that's been really difficult.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no shit.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah what is your ideal day or maybe week is better if you could choose anything in the world if work was like do whatever you want if you want to be here if you don't want to be here whatever we'll still pay you the money if you could have this utopian choice as a family what would your week or day pick one.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's easier for you to describe but I'm just interested in what your heart would really want to do in terms of work and family It's a bit of a toughie.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like one thing that I find incredibly special and I'll probably talk about Wednesdays because that's our family day is like I really like waking Hugo up slowly.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_04: So it when it's a daycare day it sucks right because I'm like alright kid we've been awake since before six to get everything ready so that we can get you up at the door and that's to allow the most amount of time for him to wake up because I don't like rushing him out the door.
• 1:04:15
  unknown: Right?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_04: So on a day if I had all of the choice that I could it would be uh I would wake him up we would read some books he would tell me when he's finished with these books in the room because that's what happened this morning I'm like oh finished all these books he's like alright out there for more books and then we would make breakfast together.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think for wheel rounding for Hugo like I do really love that he has that connection with his grandparents like it's so beautiful.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: My dad went away on holiday recently it was ten days and the very first day he came back Hugo saw him and just launched was in my arms saw papa and just launched over my shoulder to try to get to him as quickly as you can I'm like and kids don't lie kids don't have the fakeness that adults have yeah they are all genuine and just seeing his little face absolutely light up and then also seeing my dad's face light up it's it's such a beautiful relationship to witness the grandparent and the child.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah so I think totally get it in an ideal week it would still be like they would still be there.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's not just for Hugo Yeah like I'm much closer with my dad and probably my mother in law now than before because of the love and like they they pour their love into Hugo right and you just get a feeling of oh if somebody Loves my child as much as I do.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a new way of looking at them as they're not your parent as the primary.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's like they're as Hugo's grandparent.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's just Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's just so beautiful.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think I would say I'd go back to work, if I'm perfectly honest, at this point.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_04: But maybe when he went to school.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: But I think if I had an option.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_04: If it was a genuine option, I would probably wait until he goes to school and then do something within those school hours.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_04: I just really miss him.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: So And they're just so sweet and small and they grow so quick.
• 1:06:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, God, your hands are getting bigger and they're less chubby and they're getting more muscular and lanky and they need it.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: They they and they want you.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they want you.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: They are just like magnets.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be on you and around you all the time.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which on one hand, if you're around that all the time like I am, it is really exhausting.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then you get a moment away and you come back to them and you're like, God, I love you and I missed you and I thought about you the whole time, I wasn't with you, and they're just such amazing gifts, for sure.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is a really beautiful place to finish up our chat today.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so quick fire questions.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, I think you actually already described this, but if there's anything else you want to add, go for it.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: If a utopian world existed with unlimited resources and finances available, what would your dream postpartum period look like?
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'll touch on the bit that I didn't get to touch on.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_03: Rick having more than two weeks.
• 1:07:55
  unknown: Right.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_04: We were super lucky because he did two weeks and then he went part-time.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: But if there was something that I would absolutely love to stress for the partner to be more ha have more of an ability to be involved without the pressures of work.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_04: Because he was going to work and he was miserable.
• 1:08:20
  unknown: Right?
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_04: He was sitting there going and fucking exhausted.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_04: A and exhausted, right?
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because he's also getting up and helping with the feeding, the burping, the changing, the doing the washing, the making sure stuff is set up for us so that we're not by ourselves, right?
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: He's such a phenomenal father and such a phenomenal husband that I just I really wish that he was able to have as much time as I did.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because when they talk about parenting, and then only one gets to do the time.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_04: In a utopian state, I wish we could just have some time to do it.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: Be together as a family.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_04: Be together as a family and f for more than two weeks.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, number two, how has becoming a mother changed or perhaps cemented your view on how women are portrayed in the world?
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_04: God, women can do a lot.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like the f fortitude and the mindset and the ability to juggle, prioritize.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_04: You've got so much going on and you're responsible for it, I think that's just huge.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_04: That's probably the biggest change.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is phenomenal.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I look at all the other women in my life now that I've had a baby, who have had babies and just see them in a completely different light.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_04: And also I think if any of my friends were having babies now that were in location, just drop off the meal.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_04: Offer to hold the baby so they can wash their hair.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just And not ask them if they need anything in a generalized term.
• 1:10:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like really specific help.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Something that was amazing is when we lived in Sydney, my mother-in-law came up to visit us.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so did my dad.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_04: They both came to visit us when we were up there.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_04: But I would have never asked my mother-in-law to clean our shower, right?
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's just not something I would ever ask for just who I am.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_04: But she turned up and she was just doing it on one day.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I was so grateful because it was just something that I knew it needed to be done.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is at the bottom of the list.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm keeping a baby alive.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is love.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is real love.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's the real unglamorous tasks that families need with babies.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the cleaning, it's the cooking, it's the picking up the groceries, it's the walking the dog if you've got one, it's mowing the lawn, just enabling the new family to be able to live their life in a not turmoil.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's not that you need help with the baby, right?
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like I actually really want to spend time with the baby, right?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_04: When the baby is baby, baby.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's the everything else that gets in the way.
• 1:11:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_04: The other noise that I think would be my new focus as a friend to new mothers.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I'd focus in on.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's the stuff that no one's going to actually ask for help doing.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: And we need to show up for them because we're going to be there.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_04: And you know that it makes such a difference.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and like well then likely your baby's gonna cry if it's going to a new person.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Or and that will then hurt you, right?
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_04: That doesn't help.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_04: But the helping is the oh, I picked up a pack and a passer and some source, and I'm cooking it for you.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for saying that.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the last one we're bean answering, but what's one thing you would tell a new mum about to go through their own matrescence and postpartum experience?
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_04: Just be kind to yourself.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_04: Treat yourself like you would your best friend who was going through it.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think if you spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm not doing, what's wrong, like that really eats away at more of yourself than you've got available.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_04: And to just be kind.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes harder said than done.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when you've got added things in your brain, like some anxiety and depression.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like seeing yourself with love is can be really hard.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you're so right that just take a moment and think about the words that you're thinking about yourself, would you say them to a friend?
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 1:12:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_04: I can't remember who gave me that bit of advice, but that bit of advice was like super helpful to get through.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_04: I would never say this to anyone else.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_04: So why am I willing to say it to Hugo as well?
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Rose.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: You've spoken so truthfully and honestly, and I really appreciate you spending your free Wednesday family time talking to me.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think your story is gonna hit so many notes with other people, and we didn't get to talk a lot about the fact that you had to move around a lot, but I hope that gives some families peace if they find themselves in that situation too, that everything will be okay.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just be kind.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's really lovely.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Mothering.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a mother yourself, I hope it provided comfort that you are not alone in your journey.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you're about to be a mother or have a new mother in your life, I hope it provided some understanding of the complex emotions and experiences women go through during this life-changing transition.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a one-woman show, so I would love, love, love, love, love to hear what you thought.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribing is the greatest way you can help this podcast reach other mothers who need it.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you rate and leave a comment on here, I will be eternally grateful to you.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the Instagram page, which is at by Mothering, B-Y Mothering.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of opinions on motherhood and share all sorts of things mother-related on there.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be a guest on the podcast, I really encourage you to reach out to me.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: There is a section on my website where you can submit, and I'll leave a link for it in the show notes.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can find all the relevant links and information mentioned in this podcast below in the show notes as well.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have a beautiful day, and I will see you next time.