Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 111: Butter Chicken Faith

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Ep. 111: Butter Chicken Faith · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy. Hello, world. Good day, world. Good day.
• 0:34
  Good day.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: I said good day, sir. What's up, mom?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Is it Willy Wonka. Oh, you're right. I was thinking A Christmas Carol.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Willy Wonka when his
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: hair gets all like frazzled. Yeah. And he says,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I said good day, sir.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Sorry. We destroyed your eardrums just then.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I tried to slightly whisper
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: it and pull the microphone away from my face, but I don't know that I did a great job. No. But you did rub it against your boob. So that was fun.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: You're welcome, world.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And now you know. So we are filming recording. We don't film. We say that every single time. I can't get it out of my head.
• 1:18
  Do you guys want us to film this? Real question. No. Because it would take a lot of effort in my life. And while yes, at this exact moment I'm pretty, most of the time when we record, I don't look so good.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I think if we're going to start filming, unfortunately, a lot of things are gonna have to change. We can't just film whenever the crap we want. We can't always be sitting on my bed or this bed.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna have to film multiple episodes at once. And you know we stress over that. We do. And we get really low energy. We'd have to feed each other.
• 1:54
  And I'm gonna have to have so many different beverages. I'm gonna have to have a coffee and then a wine and then a water. Okay. So sit with this throughout the week, folks. And tell us in your soul, do you need this from us?
• 2:07
  Yeah. And probably your soul might say no. Bree's hoping that's what your soul says. But anyway, we are recording on location again at our parents' house because Brianna has abandoned me for two entire weeks. Sorry.
• 2:23
  So now we have to record in the middle here at this the house. In our old room again. At this the house of our youth. In the room of our youth. The room of our youth.
• 2:34
  Which has not been repainted. I feel like we've talked about that before. But it is bubblegum pink. And you know what's weird too? We painted this room, I think I was 10.
• 2:45
  Mhmm. Which makes you around 12.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Boy, did we make a choice.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: We made a And I don't even particularly think either of us loved pink. I think
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: it was just that our old room, we tried to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: be like super mature and do like cream and like dark purple. We didn't do that. Mom did that. No, I thought it was us. I'm pretty sure it was mom.
• 3:05
  It was us. Your memory is crap. It was us because we wanted to be mature. So we had cream walls and purple trim. And then I think we were like, we need something fun.
• 3:18
  Obviously. And so let's have Pepto Bismol on these walls. And also fairies and butterflies. Yeah. But the thing is too, like our parents have redone pretty much this entire house since we grew up.
• 3:32
  It's been repainted. They've redone tons and tons of stuff really beautifully. Except for this room. And it's not like, oh, they love us so much. It's a shrine to who we are.
• 3:43
  No, they've ripped out all of the things that looked like us. Except the pink walls. The pink walls and the trim and the stars on the ceiling. Oh, yeah. Those are still there.
• 3:52
  And my footprints on the ceiling. Oops. Sorry, mom. Sorry, dad. Brie was on the top bunk growing up.
• 3:59
  And she fell out of it one time. Multiple times. And didn't you hit your head on the fan once? Probably. Pretty
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: sure Oh. You Yeah. All the time. Because we would would jump off the top bunk, like, onto the
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: floor being like daredevils. Me and Brandon and maybe it was just me and Brandon. And I would often hit my head. Brandon is our brother. In case you haven't been around long enough to know that.
• 4:23
  Speaking of our childhood, here's a transition. Ready? If you guys grew up conservative evangelical Christians and are millennials also, You may have grown up in what they called the satanic panic of the late eighties, nineties Christian circles. Yes. We definitely grew up like this.
• 4:49
  And I was telling our mom that we were gonna talk about this today. And she goes, you're gonna talk about me, aren't you?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, yep.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't just her. It was like everybody in that movement. Yeah.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know there was
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: a name for it, but as I'm slowly researching, I'm like, hey, let's talk about how traditional Christians were afraid of like meditation and yoga because those things were like, stay away from those because they're from the devil. And they're like, oh yeah, you're talking about satanic panic from the eighties and nineties. I had no idea. The only reason that I knew it had a name was because I've researched this before. Mhmm.
• 5:28
  But, yeah. So we're gonna talk about things that Christians are afraid of that they don't need to be afraid of. And another one that was big from that time period is Harry Potter. Mhmm. Did you guys maybe you dealt with this, maybe you didn't.
• 5:41
  But our parents were very, like, Harry Potter is from the devil. And we were not allowed to read them, watch the movies, interact with it at all, which was difficult because that was our generation. They all were obsessed with Harry Potter. Mhmm. And I didn't read them until high school when I had my friends bring them into school and I would change out the dust jacket on the book so that it looked like something else and my mom wouldn't know I read And then and then she immediately once she found out I was reading them, she read them and loved them.
• 6:15
  So I don't know.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: She loved them. And then we went to Harry Potter world Yeah. At Universal, like, the year that it opened. Mhmm. That's how dedicated we were
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: as a family. And now we watch the movies regularly and all that stuff. So our parents gained their minds back, but they lost them briefly.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Our parents always had their minds. Well. But they were influenced by the satanic panic.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: You just like to say that. Oh, a
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: 100%. It's a fun phrase. Yes. Well, mean, the satanic panic was a massive moral panic that Christians and media outlets and therapists and parents became convinced that satanic cults Mhmm. Were secretly infiltrating our society.
• 7:01
  So people like fully genuinely believed that there were hidden satan worshiping networks that were abusing children, running underground rituals, embedding satanic messages in music.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: And I specifically remember people being like, oh, don't play this song backwards. Mhmm.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Because it has a satanic message. And because if you play it backwards, it has a satanic message, then you can't play it forwards either.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Because your subconscious will catch on to it or something.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And like almost none of it was true. Mhmm. But it was talked about on talk shows and on the news. And a lot
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: of it is just fear based preaching, which
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the more that I look into it, it's all about control. Mhmm. Because if you can get people to fear things, their rational thinking starts to go away and their critical thinking starts to go away. And it makes sense. You wanna protect your children.
• 7:50
  You wanna steer away from anything that, like, satanic rituals are terrifying.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. But you also have to do some critical thinking and remember that Britney Spears is just a girl.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And for her to make a satanic message, if you play
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: a song backwards, would be wild.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: It would be insane.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: It makes me think a little bit of a modern day witch hunt almost. Like Yes. Because you think back to, like, the Salem witch trials. Mhmm. And that was the vibe was we're gonna find Satan in anything and everything.
• 8:26
  And I'm not saying that, you know, there's no we talked about spiritual warfare last week. I'm not saying that that doesn't exist at all. But, like, maybe it's not in our pop songs. And maybe it's not in Harry Potter or meditation. Also looking into those situations and saying, is this true?
• 8:43
  Or is this just a way that people in power are trying to control me Mhmm. And keep their power? A slight offshoot of that. So I just wanna say, like, I appreciate the audience that we have in such a big way. Because where we live and we've talked about this, but where we live, there's not a lot of progressive Christianity.
• 9:06
  No. We live in a small area. It's pretty insulated. Conservative churches, conservative politics, all that stuff. Right?
• 9:15
  And the over the last week, some of our social media stuff where we really do get to interact with you guys has been so encouraging because I've had so many people jump on and be like, you guys are my people. I have not found a community yet, and here's my community. And this is the kind of change I want to see in Christianity. And I just appreciate it so much because It's so nice for you. Poor Brie.
• 9:44
  So our TikTok community is absolutely lovely. Just wonderful people. And I handle most of our TikTok and Brie handles most of our Instagram. And Instagram is a whole different thing.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: People are so mean on Instagram. Don't get me wrong. There are some wonderful people on Instagram. And I've had great conversations with people on Instagram. But more often than not, our content is being pushed towards people that hate our freaking guns.
• 10:12
  And they just comment and say like, this is from Satan. You are Satan. You're wrong and gay.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: So it's fun. It's fun over
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: there on Instagram. It's rough.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: But our TikTok followers are wonderful. I'm going to assume that most of you listening, if you're anywhere, you're probably on TikTok. Yeah, hopefully. But I think we should talk about some of the specific topics that get freaked out about and why what the difference is between something you really should be concerned about versus something that's hyped up that you don't actually need to be concerned about. Let's talk about rocks.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Okay. I've talked to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: you guys about my rocks before. Right? So I started collecting crystals, rocks, whatever. What? Maybe a couple months ago?
• 11:03
  Not super recently.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems like we've been into rocks forever, almost as long as rocks have been alive.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Like going on vacations and always collecting those little shiny rocks at the souvenir stores. Yes. We did enjoy those. And I would make a family out of them. But recently, I've been collecting, like, you know, the towers, like the pretty ones that you see online and everything because they're gorgeous and they're aesthetic.
• 11:28
  Mhmm. And that is something that Christians do kind of freak out about. And I've been hesitant to talk about even on this podcast, not recently, but, like, at first. Mhmm. And part of the Christian response to that comes from thinking of it as witchcraft, which is a lot of what we're gonna talk about today.
• 11:52
  Mhmm. But people will say like, oh, well, since someone is gonna use this for energy healing or hey, someone thinks this is gonna cure their cancer or whatever, you know, that that then means no one can collect crystals and be a Christian.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. In the same vein as like, don't get close to sin. Right.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Right? You might be going to go see a movie that they don't approve of. So therefore, don't go to movies at all ever. Mhmm. That kind of thing.
• 12:24
  Yeah. Or some dancing is, you know, too close and sexual, so therefore don't dance at all. Mhmm. So, yeah, it's the same concept. But it really depends on your intention behind it.
• 12:37
  Mhmm. I collect rocks partly because apparently I'm a strange little goblin. I just like pretty things. And partly because when I open them, when I get them in the mail and I open the box, my son comes up and we research them together and find out, like, how did this rock form? And I have this one.
• 13:00
  I think it's called it's like larcovite or something like that. And it's made when magma cools. So we looked this up, and basically it means that, like, the magma in the crust of the earth over a crazy amount of time cools and creates this particular type of rock. So in my head, I'm sitting there. I'm like, when God created the earth, he created the magma that formed this rock.
• 13:24
  And I think that's incredible to be able to hold that Mhmm. And say like, this is in my house. It's also interesting that if you were to say, I'm really into geology. Geology. Mhmm.
• 13:35
  I love geology. I want to study geology more. I'm really into
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: rocks. That would be a fine thing to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: say. Right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: But if you say, just
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: in general, I'm really into rocks and crystals and gems Mhmm.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: People think, woah. Yeah.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You're a little weird. She's a witch. And I mean, you can I think you can take from it a lot of different things? Like, you might be into more of the geology. You might say, Hey, this stone has cool vibrations.
• 14:06
  I don't know.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I also think it can be okay to say like, Hey, this specific stone represents healing and growth. And right now I'm in a season of my life
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: where I need healing and growth. And so just having this around me, maybe it doesn't actually promote healing and growth. But having that in that space and every time I look at that,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I think healing and growth and I set my intentions towards healing and growth Mhmm.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: That's good. Well, it's like what we'll talk about later, mindfulness. Just being aware of the things that you want to oh, here's another Christian buzzword, manifest in life. And, you know, the Bible does talk about, like, divination and sorcery and trying to manipulate the spirit world or whatever. Trying to be god.
• 15:00
  Right. Exactly. But if you like, I wear crystal bracelets all the time because I really like the sound of them. Are you wait. I'll do it for you.
• 15:10
  Ready? Oh, ASMR time. Tell me that's not pleasant. Okay? I do like that.
• 15:16
  All day long. All day long, I'm sitting here with my nails just playing with them because I find it calming. Mhmm. I I don't know why, but that sound I just find calming. I like to fidget with things, so that's nice for me.
• 15:28
  And I don't think that like, hey, this rock is physically calming me down. I have a magic rock. It's not absorbing my negative energy or anything like that, but I personally find it calming. But you almost can't say that in church spaces. And that's pretty much all of the things that we're gonna talk about.
• 15:51
  But it becomes a bigger question of, is this something we do consistently across the board? Some people use crystals for energy healing, for whatever. Therefore, we're gonna say no Christians should use them. But do we do the same thing for candles or essential oils
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: or
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: herbs or books or jewelry or any of these things that some people are using for maybe a sorcery purpose?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Right. And you could almost associate it too with like a cross necklace. Mhmm. What what do you think that's doing for you?
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. What are your intentions on wearing that cross necklace? Or is it, I'm wearing this cross necklace because every time I wear it, it reminds me of my salvation and how lucky I am. It's good. Yeah.
• 16:45
  Those things are good. Yeah. Intention and mindfulness, folks. Yeah. Meditation is something I remember starting these like sleepy time meditations.
• 16:54
  And I was told a couple of times, be careful because you don't know what's in those. And really all they wanna do is just fricking go to sleep. Right? And it's like, take all the stress in your head and let it out through your left ear lobe. And then pretend you're floating in space and you're weightless.
• 17:12
  And then all of a sudden you're drowning.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: That can't be good.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Don't listen to those ones. But Christians will also say to stay away from meditation because they think it's emptying your mind.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And if you're emptying your mind, then you're freeing up your
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: mind to let bad things in.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Right. And that came about with the satanic panic also. It's like opening spiritual portals and new age deception. But historically, meditation is deeply woven into Christianity itself. The issue is that the modern Western Christianity often becomes uncomfortable with the silence and the stillness and the embodiment and the introspection, which is ironic because Jesus consistently withdrew.
• 18:00
  Right? We see him step away from his people Mhmm. And go spend time with God. He went into the wilderness. He went onto the mountaintops.
• 18:08
  He went away from the crowds. He needed that solitude time. Mhmm. So biblically, meditation never presented itself as evil. But because people were just afraid of Satan and the satanic panic,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: they said stay away from meditation altogether. Mhmm.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: And in that same vein with yoga too.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I remember doing just a yoga stretch in front of someone one time and they were like,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Because they think that that is associated with like Buddhism or other religions
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Really, yes, you can do that. You can turn meditation into something else. You can turn yoga into something else. But that doesn't mean it's inherently bad.
• 18:58
  Mhmm. Sometimes I just wanna be able to move a little bit more, so I need to stretch. I love a yoga man. Sometimes my brain is Do you know that scene in Inside Out two where she's having a panic attack?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Oh, yes. Sometimes my mind is like that. Mhmm. And I need to reset.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: So meditation comes into play. I also actually think that that ties into what we've talked about a lot with Christianity being terrified of anything outside of its bubble. Because, like, let's say that now, obviously, meditation does have roots not just in Buddhism, but also in Christianity and in a lot of traditions. But let's assume for a second that it was only in Buddhism. Why are we so afraid of that?
• 19:47
  Mhmm. Why is that so scary to just look in that direction? Not to say my faith is fully changing, but just to say these people might have something good to say, meditation is lovely. I'm gonna take parts of that tradition and pull them into mine because Christians have been doing that for centuries.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And meditation can literally lower your heart rate.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: It reduces stress hormones. It improves focus and it reduces anxiety. All good things. All good things for your body. And I think some people are afraid of like,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: like the, ohms. Right?
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: The verse from Psalms 4six 10, which says, be still and know that I am God.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Has like its foundations in meditation. Right. Right? Be still.
• 20:38
  Take a moment. Take a breath. Step away. There's also a Hebrew word often translated to meditate, which is Hagah. Mhmm.
• 20:47
  Bless you. Which can mean murmur or ponder, reflect, mutter quietly, deeply contemplate. I like mutter quietly. Mutter quietly. I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: If you're muttering quietly, I have concerns.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean empty your brain and summon demons. Right. It's intentional reflection. It's focusing. Kind of like when, like, they teach you when you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: have anxiety to do your taps. Mhmm. Right? It's just a way to focus your mind on something other than all of
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the busy chaos around you.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I remember that the reason I was given when we were quite little. So this would be because we I was born in well, I won't say when I was born because then you'll figure out how old I am. When did you graduate high school, though? But I was born in the early nineties. And I early on in life, I remember hearing, well, you don't wanna meditate because that's emptying your mind of everything, and you should always be thinking about God and Jesus.
• 21:48
  And that's an awful lot of pressure for a small child. Mhmm. And I almost think the opposite is true. If we allow things like meditation into our faith, you can say, this is your time to truly focus on God. Because practically, none of us are thinking about God a 100% of the time.
• 22:06
  Mm-mm. And even if you are, I guess, somewhere in the back of your mind maybe pondering God a lot of the time, it's not intentional. It's not I'm gonna spend time with God. Whereas meditation really can be that. It can really be, God, I'm gonna sit with you here in this space.
• 22:21
  It's not necessarily prayer time because prayer time is full of, God, I'm worried about this. God, help me with this. God, thank you for this. Whereas meditation can just be, God, I'm here with you. I'm here in this space with you.
• 22:37
  And I think that's really pleasant and really calming Mhmm. For my very stressed out brain. Well, think about it in from a relationship perspective too. In a relationship, whether romantic or not, you're not a 100% of
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the time thinking about that person.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Or you're not a 100% of the time in communication with that person. Right. You're not sitting there being like, we need to talk a 100% of the And if you are, I have concerns. Any moment of silence is a moment wasted and an opportunity for a demon. Like, sometimes comfortable silence Yeah.
• 23:12
  Is needed. Mhmm. And I think God is okay with that. Mhmm. Now another one that I wanna talk about, like, traditions that we are uncomfortable with Traditions.
• 23:24
  Is Halloween. A Halloweeny. A Halloweeny. Now I love Halloween. That should surprise none of you.
• 23:31
  I just it's the start of the holiday season for me. Everybody comes over to our house, which is a little bit stressful. But that's, like, the holiday that I host, and we decorate the house. Sometimes Brie draws on the windows with chalk. Or was it acrylic paint this year?
• 23:47
  It's paint. Yeah. Because it's still on the windows. A little bit. Yeah.
• 23:50
  And I get to decorate, and it's just, I don't know. I love it. It I love the fall. I love everything about it. I love any reason to celebrate.
• 23:59
  And our whole family gets together, so that's always fun. It's the start of a season where our family gets together a lot, and we love that. But Christians historically kind of freak out about Halloween. Now this isn't one that we ever dealt with personally. Our parents were always pretty fine with Halloween.
• 24:18
  But a lot of the churches that we've attended, churches that family have attended, are the harvest festival spaces. Mhmm. Yeah. They say that they don't want to celebrate Halloween, so they replace it with a harvest festival or just some some replacement. Uh-huh.
• 24:38
  But you still see kids dress up and you still could see kids get candy. Right. So it's it's still celebrating.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: The same thing. The same thing.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But what Christians will often say is, well, this celebrates the devil or it celebrates evil, something like that. Or this is about the occult or you're opening spiritual doors, stuff like that. Mhmm. And again, intention matters.
• 25:05
  Now if you're sitting there with a pentagram on the ground and summoning literal demons Yeah. Well, then okay. You know? That could be an issue. That might be a problem.
• 25:15
  But if you're dressing your kids up, taking them out to get candy, dressing yourself up and going out to get candy, no judgment, and, you know, eating a bunch of snacks, I I think you're okay.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's because, specifically, this is a holiday not geared towards faith. Mhmm.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: And it's not geared towards the country, like patriotic. Yeah. Yeah. Where does that fall in line?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Right. Valentine's Day is somehow fine. That's about love.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: About love. Now, Halloween does have some odd historical contexts. So it comes from a couple of different things. One is, and I might be saying this wrong, Sam Hain. That's called salmon.
• 26:04
  It's a fish. I have also heard people call it Sam ween, but I don't know if that's because of Halloween. But that was basically a Celtic seasonal festival.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I thought it was when a bunch of salmon
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: shut up and stuff, but they
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: all are in costume.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's it. That's what it is. I thought we were gonna get way more inappropriate than that. I held it in.
• 26:27
  I'm so proud. There's also All Hallows Eve. There were also Christian traditions during the fall. So this kind of mushes all of those together and, you know, the the candy industry just in general. The candy mess.
• 26:44
  And so it does have some, I guess, pagan origins. Mhmm. But so does Christian. I mean, Christmas. But so does Christmas.
• 26:55
  Exactly. We as general not everyone, I guess, but most Christians are fine with Christmas trees. Most Christians are fine with wedding rings. Or the names of the weekdays, which come from, I believe, the Greek gods, maybe the Roman gods. I'm not sure.
• 27:11
  Easter. The Easter bunny. Like Our planets. Yeah. A lot of these things that we're fine with on every other holiday, on every other day of the week.
• 27:20
  Things like saying you're my other half. That actually comes from, I believe, Greek history where they believe that humans were created as, like, a two headed creature that was split apart by the gods, and you're cursed to find your other half. That's where that phrasing comes from. Mhmm. So there's a lot of things that we're fine with.
• 27:42
  Or wedding rings, the reason that we wear them on our left hand on our ring finger is because they believe that there is a vein there that goes directly to your heart. We're fine with that. But we're not fine with, I guess, the Celtic fall festival.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: And it's just inconsistent. Again, don't spend the day worshiping Satan. I don't think God would approve. But if you're just collecting candy, I just I think you're okay. I think you're all right.
• 28:17
  During the height of satanic panic, and you probably have heard about this too if you're a millennial, but there was a pushback on worldly music, secular music, let's say. So this started, there was
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: a huge figure named Paul Crouch,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: who was the founder of Trinity Broadcasting Network. And he really fed the fear. So on his broadcasting, he would play these records backwards and say here's proof. Here's proof that there's satanic messages in these music. Specifically, I'm thinking like, Dareway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.
• 28:59
  So people claimed if you played that song specifically backwards, it said here's to my sweet Satan. Oh.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: The band denied it. And their record label famously responded with,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: our turntables only play in one direction. Four words.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: But Christians genuinely believed that these messages were like subconsciously corrupting children. And you also see that, I'm thinking like with Disney. When they would say
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: subliminal messaging. Subliminal messaging. That was huge. Where it was like, you know, and some of it may have been accurate. But there was issues with The Little Mermaid.
• 29:39
  The castle on The Little Mermaid, like, the original posters.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Those are banned because they said there was, like, phallic images on it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Or
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: little sayings in The Lion King.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. So have you heard the story of that one? Probably. But go ahead. There's in the clouds, at some point, Simba is looking I think it's when he's looking into the water and seeing Mufasa's face, and then he looks up and the clouds are moving or whatever.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to say
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: sex. Yeah. So what it does actually say and people were not far off Yes. I have heard this. Is SFX.
• 30:12
  So special effects. So basically, the special effects department was putting their little signature in there, which I will grant you.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe they should have saw that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you just saw SFX, that might might alarm you a little bit because it can look like that. But you have to ask deeper questions. Yes. You say, why?
• 30:33
  Also other bands that were accused of being, you know, Satanists. Mhmm.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Judas Priest, Ozzy Osbourne, Queen Electric Light Orchestra, ELO, your favorite.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I do like that. The Styx and the Beatles. Mhmm. That doesn't surprise me. No.
• 30:49
  But I also think that also gave them a different fan base. Mhmm. And so you're encouraging, in
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: some ways, people to seek that
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: out or the brands to feed into it more. Mhmm. I'm thinking like in today's world, what's her name? Doja Cat? Mhmm.
• 31:04
  People are saying, oh, she's a she's
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: a demon. She's crazy. So she came out with music that was like, you guys think I'm
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a demon? Fine. I'll act like a demon. Right. Because it's getting me more attention.
• 31:15
  Yes. I think too, Christians really wanna be scared of the world around us. We take that phrase, be in the world but not of it, so very seriously. And you can't impact the world if you're petrified of the world.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: And also you have to remember, God created the world. Mhmm.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Take a look around you. Drive around and look at
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the trees and look at the sky and look at the people. What a gift. Mhmm.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And if you're constantly saying everything of the world is bad
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Right. That's insulting to God. Well, think of the things that we've talked about so far. Literal rocks. Okay?
• 31:56
  And mindfulness. And Music. Holidays, and music, and people. And these are all very normal things. They're not big scary things.
• 32:09
  They're normal things. You can't live your life afraid of everything and then expect to go to all nations and spread the gospel. You can't. That you're not gonna be able to fulfill that. And that's our greatest calling.
• 32:25
  So if you spend your life saying, well, I'm gonna be in the world and not of it, and not interacting with anything Mhmm. You will have failed your purpose. You will not have done well. If you insulate yourself Mhmm. And only go see Christian movies that are approved by your pastor and only listen to worship music and maybe a couple of songs from the fifties and only surround yourself with people that think, talk, and act exactly like you, your influence is very limited.
• 32:57
  Mhmm. Now I agree, you become a product of the five people you spend the most time with. But that doesn't mean that you have to agree 100% with the people around you. Right. You can have good dialogue and they can help you think in different ways than what you would have maybe thought of on your own.
• 33:16
  Have people around you that help you become better. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you have to agree a 100%. Right. My faith is deeper because we've researched the Catholic faith, the Jewish faith, the Muslim faith.
• 33:29
  Because I have learned meditation through more of like the Buddhist traditions. And even online, as I chat with people that are atheists and agnostic, my faith is deeper because of those things. Mhmm. If I spend my life scared of those things, then I lose that. Or understanding, like, from people from the LGBTQIA plus community, how they see us and how we can better stand up better for that community and understand how certain things that we say do affect people.
• 34:06
  Like just learning from each other, listening to each other. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. Okay.
• 34:13
  Now two of the biggest ones from our era were Harry Potter and Dungeons and Dragons. And Dungeons and Dragons didn't really impact me until, I would say, high school.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Until we went and saw that movie at 09:00
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: at night with was it Chris Pine in it? It was Chris Pine and the guy from Bridgerton. Oh, Was that Dungeons and Dragons? The Dungeons and Dragons movie. Yeah.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I forgot about
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No. In high school, the guy that I was dating, who was a terrible human being,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: but not because of this,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: he would play Dungeons and Dragons. And I was very scared that my parents would find that out. Because I was like, oh, no. That definitely is of the devil. Because that's what I grew up in.
• 34:56
  And there was nothing I didn't have to interact with it. So like, whereas the Harry Potter stuff, eventually we kind of dealt with. And our parents realized, oh, hey, we judged that without really understanding it to begin with. Mhmm. Dungeons and Dragons, which if you're not familiar with it, it's a role playing game.
• 35:14
  It's the game that's featured in Stranger Things Mhmm. If that's something you're familiar with. But that just wasn't part of my world. So we didn't have to deal with, is this okay or is it not? Mhmm.
• 35:27
  And it's I guess it sounds a little spooky, Dungeons and Dragons. It sounds like knights and princesses and etcetera. But pretty much all it is is a game. Someone comes up with a storyline and everybody plays that game together. And it does have magical elements to it, but so do a lot of other things.
• 35:48
  Mhmm. And it's so these two overlap, Dungeons and Dragons and Harry Potter, because of the magic element that we were so so very scared of as a faith. And it's funny because these two things got demonized. But then you think of, like, the Chronicles of Darnia. Mhmm.
• 36:08
  Also full of magic. Has witches. Like, you know, all of those things. Right. Or Lord of the Rings.
• 36:15
  Same concept. Magical world, creatures that God didn't create, you know, stuff like that. But they were fine with that because there was this supposed tie to Christianity.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: But even still, it's full
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: of magic and full of mystical creatures. Exactly. And then there were other things too, though, that were not religious based. So like, I don't know if this was your era, but we would watch Bewitched all the time. Or I Dream of Genie.
• 36:47
  Mhmm. Stuff like that. They were old TV shows that had literal witches in it. And spells and all these things. And those were fine, I guess.
• 36:59
  I don't know why. I could not tell you why. The only thing I can land on is this was a control factor. Mhmm. Control your kids.
• 37:09
  Tell them what to do. Don't let them question church leadership because we're raising them up not to question church leadership. And where did that land us? Because today, we see church abuse everywhere. Running rampant.
• 37:30
  You literally can't go a day without hearing, well, and this pastor did this. And this pastor is in prison for this, and this dagger child is in prison for this. And I think a large part of it is because we raised a generation of church kids to never question what the pastors said.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: Well, also look at those, like, parenting books Mhmm. From way back when that I don't think we specifically grew up with,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: but I know lots of people around us did. That was just purely control. Like break the child's spirit so that they do not question you no matter what. And the church is doing that to its people in a lot of ways too. Just do not question.
• 38:21
  If you question, you don't have a strong enough faith. Mhmm. And that's fear based theology. And it just leads to control and power. Mhmm.
• 38:32
  And abuse. And abuse. And Jesus didn't always go back to Jesus. Did Jesus behave this way? Jesus didn't ask for control.
• 38:41
  Jesus didn't ask you to never question him ever. Peter questioned him all the time.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: And yet Peter was one of his disciples. He asked Peter to go out and spread the gospel. You can question things. You can question your church. You can even question God.
• 39:00
  Mhmm. And those things are okay. And you should. Because if you walk around in life and just say, well, I learned some stuff from VeggieTales once and I just stuck with it. You're Amy Grant's big fat baby.
• 39:15
  If you don't get that reference, you really should listen to that song because that's hilarious. Maybe
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: offensive. Yeah. But it's a great beat.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I just I hate this idea that we can't question anything. And that's what I see in a lot of the people that respond to things on Instagram is you don't have the right to question this. Mhmm. Christians have believed this for two thousand years, so you don't have the right to question it. But you do.
• 39:43
  And you should. And if something doesn't seem like Jesus, then you should ask big questions. And if at the end of it, it means you stepping away from a church or a small group or whatever, that is okay as you find what faith really looks like. Mhmm. Have a deep spicy faith.
• 40:10
  Mhmm. And by that, I mean don't let it be chicken and dumplings. You know? Like, the world is so much bigger and God is unlimited. Mhmm.
• 40:19
  And I feel like so often we put these boundaries on God and we want the world to fit inside these perfect boxes of right and wrong. And unfortunately that's not the world that we live in today. And that's scary. It's scary if there's not clear defined answers because it would be a lot easier to say, yes, Harry Potter is bad and from the devil stay away. So have a butter chicken faith is what you're telling me.
• 40:47
  Yeah. Pull in elements from different religions and seek out truth and seek out what Jesus and God, what they like truly intended for us in this world. And if it doesn't lead you back to loving God and loving others, then you know that it's not right. Right. Fear comes from not being able to ask questions, I think.
• 41:14
  Mhmm. Fear comes from not understanding. So much of the fear that we experience through things like the satanic panic, through, you know, just being afraid to look outside of the bubble can be resolved really simply by giving yourself the freedom to say, God, what do you think about this? Knowledge is power. Even for Christians, folks.
• 41:43
  It's okay. You can ask big questions. Now next week, we are gonna talk about something that I feel like we've kind of covered a little bit before, but it's one of those things you just gotta keep coming back to. Mhmm. And it kinda ties into this, but we're gonna talk a little bit about spicy books.
• 42:00
  Spicy books. Because Christians are very afraid of them. Mhmm. And sometimes things can just be preferences and let's stop judging other people for what they want to read. Like, if you only wanna read closed door romances so full of swoon, That's fine.
• 42:24
  Mhmm. But don't put that expectation on other people. Mhmm. And let's also talk about like, why that has blown up. Mhmm.
• 42:35
  Especially with like the TikTok culture today. I think this ties so intensely into purity culture. Because the way that Christian purity culture works is that men get a pass. They get a free pass. If they struggle with things, it's like, oh, well, but everybody does.
• 42:56
  Boys will be boys, you know? Mhmm. But when it comes to sexuality and women, there's a whole different set of rules. Mhmm. And you have to stay pure.
• 43:08
  And you have to never ever think of sex not one time in your whole entire life, except for after you get married. And then you have to be like some crazed sex maniac. Ew. I wanna see how uncomfortable I can make our parents in the next three minutes
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: because they can hear it right now.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: And it's just there's a whole different set of rules. And women are expected to to be pure even within marriage and things like that. So I wanna talk about that, the idea of purity culture. We've been saying we wanted to do a whole episode on purity culture for, like The last two years. For as long as we've been making this podcast.
• 43:50
  It's just such a big concept, and it is very personal too. I think, you know, there's we talk about a lot of things on this podcast. We're not shy. But there's a lot that we grew up with that's sensitive, you know? And you grow up with that kind of guilt and shame around purity.
• 44:14
  And that's hard. Yeah. So we're gonna talk about books and then
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: we're gonna really dive in a lot deeper. Yeah. In the next episode after that. So buckle your seatbelt.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: So that'll be really fun. So, yeah. So that'll be the next couple of weeks, and it'll be uncomfortable for our parents for sure. Mom and dad, you may or may not be right outside the door
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: as we're recording this.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Feel free not to listen to the next two episodes. Actually, play the next two episodes because it helps my stats and you know how I feel about that. Okay. But you don't have to listen to it. Listen to it on mute.
• 44:54
  Or if you wanna listen to it, never talk to me about it ever again. We don't wanna hear about it. We don't wanna hear your thoughts. Nope. Nope.
• 45:04
  I'm comfortable just keeping that boundary and building that wall. To those of you who are not our parents, don't listen on mute. Listen to it on loud. Mhmm. And share some of your stories with us.
• 45:19
  Mhmm. I'd love to hear if you, like, or about today. Mhmm.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: If you grew up in kind of the satanic panic. Mhmm.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: What were some things that you were taught were like Super evil. Evil. That voice, I'm pretty sure. There's a girl on TikTok that I watch that will she specifically talks about purity culture and like youth pastors and stuff. But she did a whole series on just people's comments of what their youth pastors, like games and stuff they did.
• 45:50
  Crazy. Mhmm. So crazy. Yeah. We'll get into some of that too.
• 45:55
  That'll be fun. Yay for us. So tune into those in the next couple weeks. Follow us on social media if you don't. We are having a lot of fun over there lately.
• 46:07
  Yeah. If you wanna be sassy with me, I'll be sassy back. Yep. We match energies. So you can bring the fire or you can bring the niceness.
• 46:15
  It's really your call. So we are if you search the hashtag we are more on Instagram or TikTok. I had to think of which social media outlets we were on. So follow us over there, and we will talk to you next week. We deeply love you.
• 46:29
  Love you. Bye bye.