Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 801: Extinct Elk, Meat Processing, and the Latest News | MeatEater Radio Live!

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Ep. 801: Extinct Elk, Meat Processing, and the Latest News | MeatEater Radio Live! · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Smell off now, lady, Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia Podcast.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to met Eater Radio Live. As always,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: It's eleven am on Thursday here at meat Eater HQ
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and Wintry Bozeman, Montana. It's eight am and Maui, where
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: it's currently about seventy five degrees, which sounds pretty nice.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: It would be nice to be out.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: There hunting pigs and access steer and shorts and a
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: T shirt. But anyway, I'm your host, Brody. I'm joined
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: today by Jannis and Randall, you know these guys. Today
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk to our favorite local wild game
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: butcher and a borgman, and we're al gonna chat with
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: our friend Jim heffle Finger about lumpers, splitters and extinct elk.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And we've got a news round up for you and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: another round of hot tip offs from our listeners. So
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: we're gonna get right into it. Have some fun today
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: before we get into the first interview. Big game season
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: is over. It's kind of kind of sad.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm may I got the mega post big game
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: season blues going right now.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of kind of sad, but I
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: mean they're still hunting to be done. What do you got?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: What do you guys got planned for the next.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You guys get the blues too?
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: Oh season, Big Blues, Big Blues right now. Yeah, I
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: don't really have any plans at the moment, trying to
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: figure out what tags I'm gonna apply for.
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: Got the calendar for twenty twenty.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Season, get into that.
• 1:50
  Speaker 5: I'll look at lads and points and all that stuff.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mountainine seasons open, that's right. Yeah, I've already had
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a couple of days out there there, found some tracks,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: but they were going into private, so we didn't cut
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: loose on them.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We're getting some snow now, which is good for
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you too.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice, makes it life easy.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Are you?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: You mentioned Maui and how nice to be there? Are
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you already sick of the cold and we're not even dude,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: barely in November.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: I get I get sick of the real cold stuff. Easy.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: You think you're going to turn into a snowbird.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: No, but I eventually I might turn into like a
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: mid South bird, Like if I moved. I want to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: be somewhere where there was seasons and it snowed once
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: in a while, so I'm got there.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I got like a Missouri.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll buy some land from
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Clay and moving down there Arkansas. Yeah.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: I For whatever reason, this cold snap hit pretty badly
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: because it was so warm, and then one day it's
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: just like ten degrees and blowing snow. And then we
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: were I was taking the taking Yannie's trailer back to
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: his house and we got two pickups stuck and a
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: trailer stuck.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: At his house.
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Man, get that plow truck out.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Well we did, well, we did because he needed to
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: pull me out with the plow truck.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: One nice thing about the cold is I think we're
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: gonna hopefully get some some early spearing ice, and I'm
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: tentatively planning a spear and trip with the boys for
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: pike and hopefully like work some pheasant hunting into that too.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: Toscani where no, no oh, gotcha a big pike here.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that would be fun over Christmas break. Hopefully
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: it stays cold enough and we'll get get some good ice.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Call me if you go. I'd like to go do that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna be around over break?
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yep? All right, then I go too. Yeah, man, perfect.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: You got a spear grab one out of Steve's.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about I got a bunch of decoys.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just like to watch.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: We should take a whole posse out there. Man, it's fun.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: Empty a few cans and bottles, put some tip ups
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: out nice. Yeah, that would be super fun.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: All right, enough talking about our fun. We got to
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: get into the serious stuff and move on to our
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: first guest, Jim Hefflefinger. Many of you guys have seen
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: or listened to him on the podcast, so hopefully and
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: know him. But we got Jim up yet or did
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: he disappear on us?
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: Oh he's still here, but he's not in yet. Let's
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: bring him in.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Jerry is.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Jim for people aren't familiar with you, Uh, just quickly
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: introduce yourself and let let us know what you do
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and then what we'll get into the nitty gritty.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: I've been I'm a well let science coordinator for Arizona
• 4:35
  Speaker 7: Game and Fish Department. I've been with the apartment for
• 4:37
  Speaker 7: thirty three years and probably most of my focus there
• 4:40
  Speaker 7: has been big game management Western Big Game I chair
• 4:44
  Speaker 7: Western North America Mealdier Working Group and then also involved
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: in Mexico both recovery last fifteen years.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Nice. But you also do some work with elk, which
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today.
• 4:55
  Speaker 7: Interesting things.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: The reason, the big reason I want I need to
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: have you on today is because you're doing some pretty
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: cool work with Merriam's elk. And if you're if you're
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: not familiar with Merriams elk, it's a jump in and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: correct me wherever I screw up, Jim. But Marriams elk
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: are an extinct subspecies of elk, and Jim's doing some
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: work trying to figure out like were they different than
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: other elk, Like do they deserve the subspecies designation all
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So we're going to talk about that, But
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: before we get to that, we got to talk about
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: lumpers and splitters. So, Jim, can you real quick explain
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: like the two basic schools of thought that biologists kind
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: of fall into when it comes time for someone like
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: yourself to like identify and classify wildlife species and subspecies.
• 5:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: Absolutely, there's a you know, we've got to classify animals
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: as species, and then when we start classifying animals as subspecies,
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: things get a little sketchy. And so there's this concept
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: of lumpers and splitters, and people fall into one category
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: or the other somewhere in between. And it basically at
• 6:04
  Speaker 7: the most basic level is the lumpers are focusing on
• 6:08
  Speaker 7: similarities between animals. Like they might look at all elk
• 6:10
  Speaker 7: and just say, you know, they're basically elk. They differ
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: a little bit in the east and the west, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: they're all just elk. So they're all one kind of animal.
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: Other people focus on differences and they might say, well,
• 6:19
  Speaker 7: this one's a little darker, this one has antlers that
• 6:22
  Speaker 7: tend to crown a little bit more, and these have
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: like smaller antlers, And so those are like the splitters
• 6:26
  Speaker 7: that want to split these animals up into a whole
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: bunch of different categories. We'll talk about. Miriam Duck was
• 6:32
  Speaker 7: named after seaheart Miriam. Miriam actually designated eighty four different
• 6:37
  Speaker 7: brown bear and grizzly bear species, not even subspecies.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to get at. Like,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I tend myself to like kind of lean towards the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: lumper school of thought because the splitters can get out
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: of control. I think at one point there's like I'm
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: just throwing a number out there. But Steve and I
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: are working on a book right now, and it comes
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: up there where there was like over one hundred different
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: subspecies of Canada goose at one point, which is kind
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: of ridiculous, But there's good reasons for splitting two when
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: it comes to managing species on like a regional or
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: more local level, like having subspecies can allow for better
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: management of those animals.
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: Sometimes they'll focus on animals, but pure taxonomous though, we
• 7:28
  Speaker 7: don't split animals just so that there's some conservation focus
• 7:31
  Speaker 7: on that. Animal taxonomy is a pure science of are
• 7:34
  Speaker 7: those animals really different? And then if they're different, then
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: we should probably doing some different conservation acts.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So let's talk elk and have you run
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: through the generally accepted subspecies of elk in North America,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: both living and extinct. And we've got a map that
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you're going to explain isn't quite accurate, but hopefully it
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: can help people visualize where these different elk subspecies live
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: now or lived before they went extinct.
• 8:05
  Speaker 7: Yeah, sure, I say that map, and I said this
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: is wrong because it's not one hundred percent right, but
• 8:09
  Speaker 7: it's the closest representation of just generally these different subspecies
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: that people have been recognizing over and over again. The
• 8:16
  Speaker 7: eastern elk people hear about east of the Mississippi. Those
• 8:19
  Speaker 7: things disappeared so quick that science didn't really catch up
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: and document many specimens. They weren't studied physically, so we
• 8:26
  Speaker 7: don't know a lot about whether they differed in the east.
• 8:30
  Speaker 7: But the Manitobin elk in the middle of the continent,
• 8:33
  Speaker 7: in Rocky Mountain elk, they don't all the genetic work
• 8:36
  Speaker 7: that's been done, they don't separate out genetically as different subspecies.
• 8:41
  Speaker 7: And I suspect if we had the same kind of
• 8:42
  Speaker 7: data for eastern elk, you'd see Eastern Manitoban and Rocky
• 8:46
  Speaker 7: Mountain really just the same thing.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And when you say it like this is this map
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: is like original range, Like obviously there's not Manitoban elk
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: running around in Kansas right now.
• 8:58
  Speaker 7: Yet you cut out there a second, But there's no
• 9:02
  Speaker 7: geographic barriers that would have like isolated those three individual
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: animals species.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yep. So what's that of total of six six subspecies
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: we've got.
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: Right, So those are three in the continental and then
• 9:18
  Speaker 7: the Roosevelt and the Tulei elk. A lot of different
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: genetic and elysis have separated those out so genetically they
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: will break out as separate subspecies, and we don't know
• 9:28
  Speaker 7: because they were isolated, and so in that isolation they
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: created some genetic differences and they're a little bit different.
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: We don't know if that how far those differences, how
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: far they were isolated go back in time, like if
• 9:40
  Speaker 7: we went back four hundred three hundred years, they may
• 9:42
  Speaker 7: have been all the same. And it's really human influence
• 9:45
  Speaker 7: isolating those populations. We don't don't really know. That bottom
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: line is Roosevelt and Twully will break out genetically. Rocky mountain,
• 9:51
  Speaker 7: Manitobin in what little we know about Eastern really don't
• 9:54
  Speaker 7: break out separately.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, Jim, could you this is Randall When you
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: say that Manitobin elk don't break out genetically compared to
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: like a rocky mountain. Up, can you describe some I
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: assume then the difference that has been identified in the
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: past to use to make that distinction is just a
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: physical visual characteristic. Now can you describe what that what
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: that is?
• 10:16
  Speaker 7: Yes, the physical descriptions that people use to describe the
• 10:21
  Speaker 7: different subspecies. They're oftentimes like they shot an elk or
• 10:26
  Speaker 7: they shot two elk, and they said these look kind
• 10:28
  Speaker 7: of darker, And so they drew a big polygon on
• 10:30
  Speaker 7: the map and they said this is the Eastern elk.
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: They gave it a subspecies name, and they said this
• 10:36
  Speaker 7: is a new subspecies. And in most cases those subspecies
• 10:40
  Speaker 7: are described separately based on a couple of little general characteristics.
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: They would not hold up to modern day kind of
• 10:46
  Speaker 7: scientific thinking at all.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: God, what about what about Roosevelt versus Rocky Mountain? Like
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: you can look at those to someone who's looked at
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of elk, you can look at like a
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: mature Roosevelt bull and a mature Rocky Mountain bowl, and
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: there's like obvious physical differences, right yep, absolutely yeah, bigger
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: body on the Roosevelt, smaller, heavier antlers on the Roosevelt.
• 11:13
  Speaker 7: More tendency to crown out on Roosevelt. You're right, physically,
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: you can tell. And so it's interesting then that genetically
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: those breakout too. So it kind of supports that yeap
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: Julei elk being a little smaller Juley elk has a
• 11:24
  Speaker 7: population were bottleneck that got down to a very small
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: number of individuals and now they've recovered somewhat. So some
• 11:30
  Speaker 7: of those genetic differences might just be that they had
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: a lot of inbreeding when there were a small population,
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: and then you're there. But those physically two look different
• 11:37
  Speaker 7: than Roosevelt and a big rocky mountain.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So the two that are considered extinct are the Easterns,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: which I think we're considered gone by like eighteen eighty
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: and the last ones might have been Pennsylvania.
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: I read.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: You'd probably know better than me. And then there's these
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Merriam's Elk, which which are southwestern elk from Arizona. Were
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: they in in any other like of the contiguous United
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: States or just Arizona.
• 12:07
  Speaker 7: Arizona and New Mexico. Yeah, and here's where the map
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: is wrong. A textbook came out called Elko North America actually,
• 12:13
  Speaker 7: and it showed these long two fingers of distribution going
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: into Mexico. But there's no evidence of that. It's publisher paper,
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: and they looked at all the archaeological digs and they
• 12:21
  Speaker 7: found no evidence of Elcan Mexico, so that that's in error.
• 12:24
  Speaker 7: If they were really Miriam Delk was described as being
• 12:27
  Speaker 7: central and northern Arizona and New Mexico.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's focus on them. Uh, since that's what
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: you're working on tell us like what you're trying to do,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: and then then we'll get into like if you can
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: like way, I know your your work isn't done yet,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: but are you trying to figure out it? Like if
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: they're like if they weren't a subspecies designation, or like
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: what is the work you're doing with Mariam Zelp.
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: And part of that is not just a g whiz thing.
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: Part of that is some people will complain and say, well,
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: you know, the Miriam's elk we had in the Southwest
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: were very different ecologically and now you've brought out from
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: Yellowstone in to replace them, and they're different, like more
• 13:12
  Speaker 7: damaging ecologically, which is there's no evidence, right, it's so
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: part of it is this complaint that you've got different
• 13:18
  Speaker 7: elk here, and that remains to be seen because if
• 13:22
  Speaker 7: you if you notice on that map northern and central
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: Arizona and New Mexico, but it's right up against southern
• 13:28
  Speaker 7: Colorado in southern Utah, and there's in Arizona there's a
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: thing we call the Grand Canyon, which is a really
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: big ditch that runs across. So there's some separation there,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: but there's a connection all through southern Colorado into northern
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: New Mexico. And so there's a question about were those
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: really different because there were only three Miriam Delk specimens
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: that were saved for science in museums. So the last
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: couple of decades, sciencests have been talking about just three
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: specimens of Miriam Bell. So let's look at those known
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: Miriam Delk specimens, and there was only three when we started.
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: We spent I spent a week in Smithsonian, spent time
• 14:03
  Speaker 7: in the American Museum twice. We combed every Elk specimen
• 14:07
  Speaker 7: in there. We went to Chicago Museum, went to UC Berkeley,
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: looked at Elk specimens. We now have identified thirteen Miriam
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: Delk specimens instead of three. We have genetic samples from
• 14:18
  Speaker 7: all thirteen of those Miriam Delk specimens.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So first you, for one second, when were they gone
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: from Arizona?
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: So they're gone in nineteen o six, the last record
• 14:32
  Speaker 7: in Arizona, and about the same time in New Mexico.
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: We brought Yellowstone Elk in in nineteen thirteen through nineteen
• 14:39
  Speaker 7: twenty eight, basically the first on spot about the same
• 14:41
  Speaker 7: as what was happening in Pennsylvania with Eastern out They
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: were bringing Yellowstone elk about the same time in the
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: nineteen teens, and so we only had a gap from
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: nineteen oh six to nineteen thirteen where the old elk
• 14:53
  Speaker 7: died out and the new elk were brought in from Yellowstone.
• 14:55
  Speaker 7: So there's always been a question did some of the
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: original Miriam's elk where they down at the bottom of
• 15:01
  Speaker 7: canyon and they made it through that ten years or
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: so now interbred with Yellowstone elk and maybe Arizona elk
• 15:07
  Speaker 7: are big because they've got genetics from the Miriam belk.
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of talk about that, so that's an
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: interesting side part of it. So we've got these we
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: got thirteen samples instead of three extracted DNA. We send
• 15:18
  Speaker 7: in DNA from not only those one hundred year old
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: Miriam Belk samples, but one hundred year old Colorado samples
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: and one hundred year old Yellowstone National Park samples. So
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: we're comparing apples to apples because genetics has changed through time,
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: but we're comparing elk at that time one hundred years ago.
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: And we sent in fifty samples, and we got usable
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: DNA from forty eight of those fifty samples, which is
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: amazing When you're talking about one hundred year old chet
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: antler that we've got DNA out of So that was
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: really the first step is what samples are available? Can
• 15:46
  Speaker 7: we get DNA out of it? And now we're not complete.
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: There's a PhD student, Kenzie, who's doing this for PhD
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: and she's only a year in two, a four year PhD.
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: So we certainly don't have results, but we've got really
• 15:59
  Speaker 7: promised extraction to DNA. We've got some good quantities of
• 16:02
  Speaker 7: DNA to play with, and now analyzing whether there's any
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: differences between Miriam Delk and other help.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So you're you're still wait non results is basically where
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: they're at. It's kind of surprising to me that they,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you know, a species that was hunted and just like
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: considered extinct in nineteen oh six, like just barely over
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, that you had that much trouble
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: finding samples, Like you think there'd be old rax hanging
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: in barns and like bones pop it like it's you'd
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: think there'd be some around, right, right.
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: And I get those emails. But if you're if you're
• 16:41
  Speaker 7: doing science and you're analyzing differences between Miriam Delk and
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: other elk. You can't use some antler that someone had
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: in the bottom that said was Miriam Delk. So we've
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: got to make that clean break of known Miriam Delk
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: in museums. But it will also be interesting if we
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: find a difference between Miriam Delk genetically and other elk,
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: Well we can use that as a diagnostic tool to
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: test some of those interesting antlers that are.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah round, So yeah, I wanted to pin you down
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: and get a verdict from you, but that's not going
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: to happen obviously.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Well I got to pin him down. Question why is
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: this worthy of your time?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 17:18
  Speaker 8: Not?
• 17:18
  Speaker 7: Like I said, not only the interesting part, but we
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: need to have some information to inform these criticisms that
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: you've got the wrong elk here. You know, you've got
• 17:25
  Speaker 7: this giant yellowstone elk and it's destroying the ass and
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: destroying the forest. And then also it's also of great
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: interest to our stakeholders and people that are interested in this.
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: Do we have any Miriam Duck jeans in today's Arizona helk.
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: There's a lot of people forever that have been talking
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: about that like constant chatter, and it just on that
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: alone will be pretty fascinating to have an answer for that.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Are you able to put out like an opinion yet?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Like were they different? Do you like, do you personally
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: think you're just like, wait.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: He's a science man, I know that.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: But you always got to ask. You got to try
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and get them to say something.
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's yeah, that's not the way science works. So
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: we'll see.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: But but we're the mainstream media here, Jim, we need
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: to pin you down before the results are in.
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: No, I don't but I don't mind. I don't mind
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: highlighting the fact that we've got elk in Colorado that
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: come right down to the northern New Mexico border, and
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: you had alcohol through northern New Mexico. It's hard to
• 18:21
  Speaker 7: envision how just those elk in Arizona and New Mexico
• 18:25
  Speaker 7: were substantially different, right, I mean, what Grand Canyon over
• 18:29
  Speaker 7: by Arizona could be seen as a barrier, but you've
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: got what seems like continuous habitat, So it's hard to
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: vision how somehow they broke out to be really different
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: in Arizona.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: There's like environmental factors involved too, Like why why are
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Roosevelt elk significantly different than Rocky Mountain?
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: Now?
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I would assume it's it's partially driven by the environment.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: They live like very thick, dark forests, so they don't
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: need these huge antlers to display from a long distance. Like,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: what are what are the reasons there.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: Do you think?
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: Yeah, certainly when you have different ecological conditions, And that's
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: a great example, because you have like rainforests, and so
• 19:09
  Speaker 7: you have animals that tend to get darker in thick forests,
• 19:12
  Speaker 7: and animals out in the open plains like a rocky
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: mountain elk tend to be more lighter and more cream
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: like that. That that happens with a lot of different animals,
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: and also open plains animals are more visual, so there
• 19:23
  Speaker 7: their rump patches sometimes are more vibrant, more white, more contrasting.
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: Antlers are larger because they're more visible animals. If you're
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: Roosevelt elk sneaking around on the coastal rainforest, there's not
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: a lot of visual cues that people are using, and
• 19:36
  Speaker 7: so the animals can be smaller and darker in bodies, darker,
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: and that's just an adaptation of local conditions.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So I mean, with that in mind, it's hard to
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: imagine Mariam's being that much different from Rocky Mountain.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Ok.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: You know it's right. Ecological habitat and nutrition is the same.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you see it on the eastern Well,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the elk that occupy the eastern range of elk, Now,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: like they're antlers. When they're small, they look similar to ours,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: but like as they get bigger, they get very crowned
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: out and they look very different. Like the bulls in
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania look very different than there are bulls here. Part
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Might just because they're not getting hunted as much, they
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: live longer, they got easier winners.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know we're getting off on a tangent, but
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I want to talk to you, Jim about what Johanna's
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: brought up, which is all these very successful elk reintroductions
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: that have taken place around the country. Like when I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: was a kid, like seeing an elk in Pennsylvania was
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: like a big deal. It's like a very small reintroduced herd.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And now they've got a whole bunch of them. Like
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: you can watch these elk on live cams in Pennsylvania,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: like during the rut, Like we've got these places where
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: they congregate and you can just watch them on your computer.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And those same reintroductions have happened in a few southeastern
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: states and in the Upper Midwest. And the interesting thing is,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: like these are all like this is former habitat of
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: eastern elk, the eastern elk subspecies, which you said we
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: don't really know a lot about, and how much different
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: they might have been. I guess my question is is, like,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: like how how like these subspecies categorizations, Like if you
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: can just plug a Rocky Mountain out into Pennsylvania or
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: the you know, the Smoking Great Smoking Mountain National Park,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Like how valuable are these subspecies distinctions if you can
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: just like put it out from Yellowstone into one of
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: these very different environments and they just they thrive, They
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: do just fine.
• 21:46
  Speaker 7: And you know, we see that with turkey certainly too,
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: with the turkey subspecies. But just because something a different
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: subspecies doesn't mean it's like not going to do really
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: well in a different environment, but it does have local
• 21:56
  Speaker 7: genetic adaptations and physical adaptations to that environment, so you
• 22:00
  Speaker 7: can't And then also you think about Rocky Mountain, Manitoba
• 22:02
  Speaker 7: and Eastern elk were probably the same, so when you're
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: moving those animals, they probably aren't much different than what
• 22:07
  Speaker 7: was there originally, even even Miriam Belk potentially. But if
• 22:11
  Speaker 7: you could take a Roosevelt Elk put in Pennsylvania and
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: they would probably do okay, but they're not adapted to
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: that environment, so there might be some underlying genetic things
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: that make it harder for him to thrive.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Cool. Well, you got to keep us posted on what
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: you find out. I guess you got three more years
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: of work you're looking at on this stuff.
• 22:30
  Speaker 7: Yep, that's right. And there's other people doing a majority
• 22:33
  Speaker 7: of the work. I did a lot of the sampling
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: and involved in the beginning of it. Now the geneticists
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: are sitting at the genetics lab bench doing most of
• 22:41
  Speaker 7: the work. One interesting thing is that Seeheart Miriam, who
• 22:45
  Speaker 7: miriams Elk is.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Named after him.
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: He's the one who named Roosevelt Elk after Theodore Roosevelt.
• 22:51
  Speaker 7: And there's a letter that's on display at the American
• 22:53
  Speaker 7: Museum and Atrohistory in New York, and it's Theodore Roosevelt
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: writing back on the Department of Navy letterhead thanking See
• 23:01
  Speaker 7: Heart Miriam for naming that elk after him.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, Yeah, we talked about this a little bit
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: through email. Miriams. How many how many species does that
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: guy have his name attached to?
• 23:15
  Speaker 7: He named seventy one species, but not with his own name.
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: He has about twelve species that have his name on it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: One interesting factoid too, is that Vernon Bailey used to
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: work for Sea Heart Miriam as a mammalogist. Vernon Bailey
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: then married Miriam's sister, and Vernon Bailey is the guy
• 23:34
  Speaker 7: who described Eastern Elk for science.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 23:37
  Speaker 7: So a lot of the same famous people running in
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: the same circles, as you can see by that picture
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: with See Heart Miriam driving Teddy Roosevelt around.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Sure, Jim, are you hoping to one day put attach
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: your name to a new subspecies heffelfinger eye.
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: I was oping a deer species heffelfinger eye would be nice.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll keep our eyes out for one of those
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: running around.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: We'll let you know, all right, Jim, We're gonna you
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: go have fun at that Big Boone and Crockett conference
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: you're at right now, and we'll talk to you. We'll
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: talk to you soon.
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: Thanks, Jim.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting stuff.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I want Jim to you know, it sounds like there's
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: some people in Arizona who are upset about all these
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: big giant bulls walking around and they want some smaller
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: elk I like Jim to make those connections for us.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: Sure, I'd be happy to help them with that problem.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately, I think it's probably people that just don't
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: want hunting in general.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: Right exactly.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Let's move on to a news round up. I assigned
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: these guys a little homework to find some interesting news
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: stuff that you guys should know about. I think we've
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: got Randall first, Randal. What are you gonna fill people
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: in on?
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Uh, this is not a very fun or exciting
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: news topic.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: But let's do it anyway.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: I feel like this this season, I've probably seen more
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: news stories than years pasted about accidental one hundred deaths
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: from from gunshot wounds. The most recent one I saw
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: was in Pennsylvania, which just opened like last week. Guy
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: was shot in a deer drive. There's another one in
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: in Texas. And then there's two ones actually very close
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: to home, uh here in Montana and another one in Idaho,
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: and those actually involved law enforcement officers on their time off.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: And and those two cases and the one that I
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: saw in Texas, the circumstances were very similar. It was
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: getting in and out of a vehicle and casing and
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: uncasing firearms. And it's just a good reminder, I guess
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: to always, you know, keep safety in front of mind.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: And no one ever thinks they're going to be that
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: person involved in an accident like that. And you know,
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: we before the before we started recording here, we're all
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: saying we've been in situations where someone had a loaded
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: gun that they thought was unloaded.
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: And you know, that.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Stuff only happens when you when you aren't constantly challenging
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: yourself like did I unload this?
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: You know, did I see them unload this?
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: And and it's just always got to be front of mine.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I don't know that I've got much else there.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: The one thing I will say in pulling these stories together,
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: and someone had sent me one of these earlier in
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: the year. There are fundraisers for the families of the
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: two law enforcement officers who who died. One was a
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: UH law enforcement officer from California who died in a
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: in a hunt in Idaho, I think in October. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: his name is Nathan Cass k A A S. And
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: there's if you go to help aher dot com, there's
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: a fundraiser for his wife and kids.
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: And then.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: A guy named Michael flore who is a I believe
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: he was a sheriff's deputy with Galatin County here in
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Monte And there's a go fundme for Michael floor f
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: l o h R. So, you know, this time of year,
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: it's we all look forward to it, and then when
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: it's gone, we're all sad, you know. But and it's
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: kind of fun to tell stories and do all that,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: but it's very serious business whenever you have loaded guns around.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: So just seeing all these in the headlines, I felt
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: compelled to It's interesting.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I doubt that there's been more this year on average
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: than in the past, you know, accidental like involving hunters,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: accidental shooting desks. And I would also guess that in
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the same period of time there were way more accidental
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: shooting desks among non hunters that didn't make the news.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: But these things tend to hit the headlines for whatever reason.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: But it is just a great reminder just to like
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: always be safe.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes you got to get up in people's
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: faces about it because people like to act like it's
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: not a big deal. And as a guide, you learn
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: very quickly. That like it's a there's no it's a
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: no strike policy.
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, you just don't put up with any of it.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And if you have someone in your group that continues
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to do it, you need to quit hunting with them,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: right because it's just a matter of time till they
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: make a mistake.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's it's easy to keep all that stuff
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: in mind when you're at the range and you're taking
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: your time, and and it's you're very methodical and how
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: you approach it. But when you're hunting, you know, you're cold,
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: you're tired, there's animals moving quickly.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: You might.
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: Wear yourself out to the point that you're no longer
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: thinking straight. And you just got to always double check
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: and triple check. And that's like even with when I'm
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: hunting with my wife, I'll ask her, like, did you
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: unload it? And she'll hand it She'll say yes and
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: hand it to me, and I'll stick my finger up
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: in the in the chamber, you know, just yeah.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: And I think you're just begging for trouble if you're
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the kind of hunter who's like it's hard not to be.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: But like maybe you're driving from spot to spot, or
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: maybe you're even road hunting, We're like, oh, I got
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: to be ready. I'm in the truck, but I gotta
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: be ready, like having a like not even having one
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: of the pipe, having a clip in the rifle, whatever
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: it might be. Like, I don't think you can be
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: thinking about like what happens if a buck pops out
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: right next to the road kind of thing or stuff
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Oh it's killing me. This fall in Wisconsin, I was
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: climbing trees a bunch and going up in a saddle.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I would have to pull my rifle up, you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: with the string. Yeah, And of course I wanted to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: be unloaded when I was doing that, because you're literally
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: pointing it up. Well, I guess you could pull it
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: up button first either way, but yeah, you don't want
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to be loaded. But the stink the bad part is
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: is that when you're in that tree and it's you know,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes before daylight and it's super quiet, and then
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you gotta rack it, you know. Oh god, it almost
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: made me want to like pull a loaded gun up
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: up the tree, but which I never did, but like
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I just I learned to. Actually, I would take extra
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: clothes so I could like grab it cover the whole
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: action with a jacket and then slowly just slide one
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: in there and try to make it as quiet as
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I could.
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no shortcuts.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yep, be honest, what do you what do you got
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: going big news out of Idaho?
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's big news. You know, a lot of
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: us that live here in Montana and people that live
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: all over this country like to hunt Idaho. You don't
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: really want to go hunt there if you're into like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: elkin deer, because the wolves have eaten most of them.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: But if you want to give it a shot, they're
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: going to make it a little bit easier. A lot
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: of us complained in years past. This has all happened
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: in probably the last ten years, because ten years ago
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I hunted Idaho and I was literally able to buy
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: a deer license at the gas station with like five
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: days left in the season. And when I bought it,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the guy offered me a second one. That is no
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: longer the case. The last whatever. You know, five to
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: ten years, you've had to either go in and stand
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: in line or stand in a digital line like.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: A queue stand in line in Idaho.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in Idaho, or get online and stand in a
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: digital queue and they gave you a number, and uh,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you know that's kind of the order that you would
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: be you'd get to try to buy a license. And
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: it was a mess. It was hard. I think there's
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of people gaming. The system was forever, and.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: They had more technology errors than we do on this program.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Right, it was not it was not pretty bad.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: The way it worked is you were like, if you
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: were going to do this online thing, you were assigned
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a random number for a position in line.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So like last year, I tried it, and I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: think I had five devices open, Like I had my
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: wife's phone, my phone, a couple of computers, maybe even
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: like my daughter's iPad or something. Right, the lowest number
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I had was seven thousand and something. Wasn't going to
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: get a tag, or at least not one of tag
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: attack you want, I want it. So now they've listened
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: to the complaints and they're changing it. It's it's going
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to be just a straight up application process, very short
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: application period, which I was surprised about. December fifth to
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: the fifteenth. It's actually opens tomorrow. You have ten days
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to to do it. You have to buy a hunting
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: license to apply. The hunting license is non refundable. The
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: way I look at it when I do that is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: just that you know, you're chipping in on conservation, sure,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: because there's a good chance you're not going to get
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the tag. You're not going to get that. I think
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: it's like one hundred and sixty.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not nothing like in.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: The upper half of the one hundreds.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I think there will be people that are like, nah,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not that committed, but the people who
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: are committed will pay it. It's something other states to do. Uh,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's something to think about. You're like,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: you could end up not getting a tag and you're
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: still in for whatever.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And this is just for general season, like regular old
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: what used to be, you know, what you'd call an
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: over the counter attack. This is not for their what
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: they call their controlled hunts. And so if you're like
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: looking to apply for a special unit for a big
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Balkanist special date range, this is not it. This is
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: just for like the general season.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: You still have to pick like a unit, yeah right, yes, units.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Non residents have to have to pick a unit, but
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: it's for like the general season. I think I think
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be good, hopefully, it'll there'd be less stress,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and there's no stress. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: there's no. It's a total lottery, right, Like, there's no
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna have a preference points system or anything
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: It's just gonna be a pure lottery.
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I Jaho doesn't have points for anything, right.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Which I like.
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I like.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I mean you could if you're an unlucky person, Uh,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: you could go your entire life and never draw a
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: tag there. Yeah, you know, it is what it is.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I like this system better than what like Colorado's got going.
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: Sure, and I think like the new you know, more
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: and more things are going to a draw and like
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: that's a bummer. But the way that it was working
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: before it if you could fly to Idaho and spend
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: money on a hotel room, you know you were going
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: to get it, or or if you had an outfit
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: or who would wait in line for you, you'd get it.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: So this just makes the.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Playing fields.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: It makes it levels the playing field for people. And yeah,
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: like you said, I think it takes a lot of
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: stress out of it.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: And what else I like about Idaho and I'll leave
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it at this, is that they they really. I forget
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: what the numbers were, but they cap they're non resident numbers,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and it's not that high. It's like like ten to
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: fifteen k per species per you know, deer and elk,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: and so it's that way they're gonna they're they're going
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: to give their residence and the few non resident to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: get to hunt there. They're going to give them a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: quality hunt. And I would much rather have that every
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: couple three years than go and have a crowded hunt
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: every year.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure, But don't go hunt there because
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: of the wolves and the bears.
• 35:13
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, last time I was there,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: it didn't seem like there are many wolves or many
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: elk or deer left because of the wolves and lions
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: eating them all. But it's up to you.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, give it a try if you're feeling adventurous. Speaking
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: of wolves wolves, been a while since we've done a
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Colorado wolf update, and there's there's been some some action
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: down there, so I thought i'd give you guys a
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: little update. They started their reintroduction famously started their reintroduction
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: program a couple of years ago after a ballot box
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: initiative that's been going on for a little while now.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: There's currently about thirty in the state of Colorado, thirty
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: wolves and those were sores from Orgon and Canada or
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: those part of those thirty or offspring of those reintroduced wolves.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Over the last couple of years, at least a dozen
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: have died from various causes, including being lethally removed.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: For livestock predation.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: The state's got a goal of reintroducing at least another twenty,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: with an end goal of establishing a population at two hundred.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: But the thing is, it's like they're running out of options.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: They found themselves in a position that where they're running
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: out of options to find places to get wolves. The
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: ones they got from Oregon ended up being livestock killers.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: The ones they got from British Columbia I think have
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: maybe also been some of them have been involved in
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: some of that livestock predation. But either way, like Colorado
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: wants more wolves, it's to be determined whether they're going
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: to get more wolves. Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana they've always
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: refused to give wolves to Colorado, largely for political reasons,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: and recently the US Fish and Wildlife Service mandated that
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Colorado has to source its wolves from the Northern Rockies
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: in the United States, meaning no wolves from Canada, no
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: wolves from Alaska, so now they're getting pinched by the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Fish and Wildlife Service. Then they turned to Washington recently,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and Washington declined because they feel like they can't afford
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: to take wolves out of Washington and risk risk the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: population they have reducing the population they have there. Oregon
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: also declined to provide to provide more wolves to Colorado,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So like two states that were kind of like politic
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: aligned with Colorado, it just bailed and said nope, we're
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: not giving them to you. And those were really Colorado's
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: last best options to get wolves. I don't think they'll
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: be able to get them like Great Lakes wolves from
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin or Minnesota. So it's kind of we're kind of
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: in a holding pattern to see if this reintroduction is
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: going to continue. There are other that could go to
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: some Native American reservations that might be willing to provide wolves.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: They tried that at one point it didn't work out,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: so it'll be interesting to see if this reintroduction program continues.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: It's under the there are people who are very unhappy
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: with the money aspect of this in Colorado. The projection
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: was eight hundred thousand per year cost of the state
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: that the voters agreed to. Last year, the program went wildly.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: It's consistently went over budget. Last year went wildly over
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: budget three point five million. And that doesn't include a
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: budget of several hundred thousand dollars to reimburse ranchers for
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: lost livestock which they drained. They could completely drain that
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: that fun to reimburse ranchers, and some lawmakers in Colorado
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: are calling the situation out of control. Governor Polus has
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: been forced to cut the budget, and lawmakers are forbidding
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Colorado Parks and Wildlife from using remaining general fun dollars
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: to acquire more wolves. So, like they might be at
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: a point where they're kind of tread and water for
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: a while.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: You think Idaho would give them some wolves since they're
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: so overrun with right they don't even have any elkan
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: deer left.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: But no, Yeah, it's funny, I was thinking politically, Yeah,
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: it's folks don't want to see wolves spread, like folks
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: in Montana, IHO don't want to be part of like
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: sending wolves to Colorado. But on the other hand, getting
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: wolves out of Montana and Idaho.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it'd only be ten or fifteen of them,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: so you know, they can make.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: That up pretty quick.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's your Colorado update. There's still wolves there.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: We'll see, uh, we'll see how it works out with
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: them getting towards that goal of two hundred wolves. But
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: right now it's not not happening.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Oh it's going to be a major smudge. I feel
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: like on Polis's tenure. Yeah, you know the way he
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: handled the whole situation where like.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: He kind of inserted himself into an issue, didn't.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they had wolves coming, Yeah, it was happening all
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: on its own, and he had like they he whatever,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: had to make a big deal out of it, and
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it is just yeah.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and his Wildlife Commission played a big role, like
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: a point. Appointees played a big role in it too,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: which like makes me think that some part of me
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: thinks that those those Wildlife Commission people should be voted in,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: not appointed in.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I agree, Okay, Phil, what's the chat doing now?
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: Really quick? I saw several of you had some questions
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: for Jim during his segment. I emailed him and told
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: him to go back and check those out if he
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: feels obliged, and he absolutely does not need to, but
• 41:15
  Speaker 6: I bet I did let him know that those questions
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: are there, so maybe you'll get a little thanks for
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: that film DM from the conservation ringer himself. Let's see here.
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: First off, fishing fanatics. Nothing like sitting the stand listening
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: to me need to radio live. Thank you. And then Nate,
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: he's in the chat almost every week, got his first
• 41:33
  Speaker 6: ever buck on Sunday, six and a half inches twelve
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: pointer and his first thought was, Thursday can't come soon enough?
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: So I can tell the the live chat and the crew.
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: It's a pig ye all downhill from here.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be. That's a high Bard.
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: No free ads, but free hot tips. Justin says, I
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: just upgraded my on X subscription and have been doing
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: a bit of playing around. What are your favorite features
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: that are lesser known If you guys use any lesser
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: known on X features.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I like like like to plan stocks, like figuring out
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: yardage and things like that.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: I forget that.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: Like the you can range Yeah, and other other manufacturers
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: do that as well, but you can link your range
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: finer to that.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: That's a sweet like if you find a bedded bock
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: that you know you're going to be out of sight
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: of for a while, like marking that spot and planning
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: your stock.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: It's that's a good feature.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I've been using the UH Now it's integrated with the
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Moultarie cameras and so it's like an automatic filter just
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: to go if you want to see just pictures from
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: one camera where the Moultarie app that takes a few
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: more steps, but on on X you can literally just
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: click on the icon and see only the pictures from
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that camera, which is pretty slick.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: That's real nice. That's real nice.
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: I the one thing that I've been I wanted them
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: to improve for a while, and then I think in
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: the past two years they they added it. But the
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: snap to feature when you're like putting a route, when
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: you're building a route, and you can actually snap it
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: on trails right and roads, so I know exactly, you
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: know how far it is before I want to bust
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: off the trail and climb a ridge or something like that,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: because before you're always using.
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: Just the linear like line.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Which is like which is always shorter than what it is.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and so I yeah, I build basically whenever
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: i'm thinking about what I want to do the next day.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: As far as like a hike, I'll build it out
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: an onyx and get an idea of mileage and elevation
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: change and all that.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: The three D thing is good for that too, because
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: like you can look at the topo, but it doesn't
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: tell you how steep. Yeah, you're only getting so much information.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: So to be able to look at that slope and
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, hey, that's going to take some more
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: time than I thought.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Like that's cool.
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: M Let's see. It's a question from a cord. He says,
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: how often do your western schools go on lockdown for
• 44:06
  Speaker 6: dangerous animals in the area. He said that he had
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: a mountain lion stroll through a neighborhood and they went
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: into a two hour shelter in place. He says, does
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: that seem like an overreaction? Have your kids school has
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: ever gone into some sort of like lockdown because of
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: a bear or anything like that.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: No, I think they had a bear actually walk through
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Bozman High ago.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there a grizzly that showed up over by the
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: elementary school in Bear Canyon a few years ago?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Nothing changed.
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: I don't think there was A.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: There was like a pair of mountain lions in Missoula
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: that was hanging out at a bus stop and they
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: closed the bus stop. And I remember that because it
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: was right by my buddy's house. But yeah, other than that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's like, yeah, sure, like we've got
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: more large predators out west, but I don't think it's
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: like it happens.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: It's not like we Bengal tigers out here.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Like there's probably schools that have been shut down back
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: east because a coyote ran through the playground, you know
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: what I mean.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember when I was living in Chicago watching
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: like a live news feed of a of a lion
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: running through a neighborhood and there was like a helicopter following,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like the OJ chase, and it ran
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: through I believe they they might have even killed it,
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: like on a school playground, but it definitely ran through
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: a skilled a school playground.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: But uh, that was one of my favorite moments from
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: my time there.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: But also in Northern Minnesota, mountain Lion's probably something they're
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: just not real familiar with, and they might have just
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: you know, been been overreacting a little bit maybe, But
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: they're probably don't see him too often.
• 45:44
  Speaker 6: We've got Leland who's been really hot on the trivia questions.
• 45:47
  Speaker 6: Like Lea's been getting a lot of questions in there.
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: He asked, the strangest animal you guys have euro mounted.
• 45:51
  Speaker 6: He's having some squirrels done, if you if you have
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: had anything strange.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I did a turkey skull once, very proud of that.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: The little stuff is fun, you know, turkey skulls. And
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I have a bobcat skull. What else he's got, like
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: the whole collection of weasels we got.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a rack. We have a rack, one raccoon.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: We have a beaver skull. Beaver skull is real cool.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: They got some oh yeah, burly solid skulls man stuff
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I wanted to.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: I realized too late that I should have kept the
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: skull from my sand Hill crane this year.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: That would be cool.
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I realized that while I was taking
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: the legs off and I had little drumsticks that were,
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: you know, fourteen inches long.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: Really quick, Mogor says Phil, did you and Randall knock
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: back a beer and hot dog? After that last disinformation blunder?
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: You're going to have to be more specific, moc.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: No, that was that was when you told me the
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: wrong thing about our radio live from last week. Do
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: you remember when you gave me the wrong information about
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: whether or not Oh?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: Then we had a fake argument and I asked if
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: you want to get a beer? You said no, But
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: you want to get a beer after this?
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we will do that after this.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: But I don't.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: Just know the argument was not fake on my end.
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: Well, then good to know, I guess. All right, Phil,
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: we've got a few more, but you want to.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Let these guys know because it's gonna have to be
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: a kind of a quick turnaround on Phil's part, which
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: makes like life difficult. But we're doing a hot tip
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: off and we're doing Phil, We're gonna do the the
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: listener voting thing, right.
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: I've got I'm prepped and ready to go.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: So be prepared as you're listening to like vote on
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: the hot tips that are coming up a little later.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: But we can we can do some more. We can
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: move on, Phil, We'll do another round at the end
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: of the show.
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: Okay, great call Phil.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Our next guest is Anna Borgman. She co owns Chaos Farms,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: a butchering and meat processing business that serves the community
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: and small farms here in southwest Montana. She's been on
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the podcast uh at least a couple of times.
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: She's been on radio, and she's been on the main
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: met Eat.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: So she judged an episode of Roast There you Go,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: So you guys may have.
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: Trivial She came out to karaoke once.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: There you Go. She's like basically a meat eater employee anyway.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: She she's also butchered and processed a bunch of animals
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: for the crew when we're too busy to do it
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: on our own. She did. She did ten fifty pound
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: game bags of moose meat for me last year, and
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: I can say she did a very outstanding job. So Anna,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: welcome to the show. Oh you did? You went in there?
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Great, she's the meat.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can hear you. General rifle season just ended
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: a few days ago here in Montana. But I imagine and
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: by the looks of it, I'm right, you're still pretty busy.
• 48:59
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it kind of seems like people hit it hard
• 49:03
  Speaker 9: the last weekend. So Gold we got a lot of calls,
• 49:06
  Speaker 9: Yeah exactly. Yeah, So we got a lot of calls
• 49:08
  Speaker 9: and we were running around like crazy picking up We
• 49:11
  Speaker 9: picked stuff up for people and we drop it off
• 49:13
  Speaker 9: back at you know, the office or your house or whatever.
• 49:16
  Speaker 9: So we were running around like crazy. We've got quite
• 49:18
  Speaker 9: a few elkin here right now, a little bit packed.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: So nice. How many deer note do you think you
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: do in a season?
• 49:26
  Speaker 9: Oh jeez, it's just the two of us. It's just
• 49:30
  Speaker 9: my boys riend and I and we kind of take
• 49:33
  Speaker 9: on our own animals, you know, like I'll say yes
• 49:36
  Speaker 9: to whatever I have time for it, he says, yes,
• 49:38
  Speaker 9: he has time for Yeah.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: This isn't a situation where people can just roll up
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and drop something off to you, like a lot of
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: meat process.
• 49:45
  Speaker 9: Process right, Like this cooler is uh, I bought a
• 49:49
  Speaker 9: utility trailer and we just put in you know, foam
• 49:53
  Speaker 9: insulation and built out a cooler. So it's it's pretty small.
• 49:57
  Speaker 9: We pack it, but uh we do. I don't know
• 49:59
  Speaker 9: if you more than a hundred for but I uh,
• 50:03
  Speaker 9: I should keep track. But it's a lot of animals, but.
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: More in a season than most people will do in
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: their in their lifetime.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, definitely, absolutely, But that that kind of gets to
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: where I'm going going with this, is you're not one
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: of those like mega meat processors processors that are doing
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of animals a year, which like allows
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: you to like operate with a much higher level level
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: of care and quality. I would say then then I'm
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: not bagging on meat processors and processors in general, but like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: the more they do, it's possible that the quality level
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: is going to go down if they're cranking out hundreds
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: and hundreds of animals. So sure, as someone who's working
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: with the goal of like doing this in small batches
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: and putting out a really high quality product, I want
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: to get into first what you'd lay out as like
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: best practices for hunters before they even make the call
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: to you, and then the most common mistakes people make
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: out in the field before they even call you.
• 51:17
  Speaker 9: Yeah, i'd say best practices. I'm kind of the hill
• 51:20
  Speaker 9: that I will die on right now is take those
• 51:23
  Speaker 9: hoofs off. We get a lot of stuff that has
• 51:26
  Speaker 9: hoofs on it, and I totally you know, I get
• 51:28
  Speaker 9: it to an extent that you're trying to get it
• 51:30
  Speaker 9: out of there, and it's easier to stick it in
• 51:33
  Speaker 9: a game bag with that hoof on. But if you're
• 51:35
  Speaker 9: packing stuff out a it's extra weight. And b if
• 51:38
  Speaker 9: you've just done a good job, you know, skinning it
• 51:40
  Speaker 9: and keeping it clean, you're kind of screwing it up
• 51:43
  Speaker 9: at the end there by adding more hide into the bag,
• 51:47
  Speaker 9: more hair, whatever it was on that animal's hoof, whatever
• 51:49
  Speaker 9: it was. And then by the time we get it,
• 51:52
  Speaker 9: you know, it's just it's a little more work for us,
• 51:55
  Speaker 9: and we can't I mean, you can see these waters
• 51:57
  Speaker 9: hanging back here, like we can't hang it with a
• 51:59
  Speaker 9: hoof on it so close to the ceiling up there.
• 52:01
  Speaker 9: So and it's really easy to take off. I just
• 52:04
  Speaker 9: put up a video on my Instagram, I think yesterday
• 52:06
  Speaker 9: of how to take off.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: You're talking like basically the shin like the whole lower
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: leg craw yeah.
• 52:11
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah yeah. Like you just run your hand up
• 52:14
  Speaker 9: and that first joint that you feel there's a little
• 52:16
  Speaker 9: bit little ridge in there. You just get your knife
• 52:18
  Speaker 9: in there and it should I mean, you can kind
• 52:20
  Speaker 9: of hit it from underneath and.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: It'll just crack off yep, yep, and it.
• 52:24
  Speaker 9: Won't cut the Achilles tent.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Anything else that's that's helpful or people should be doing
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: to like make sure they're gonna have some like high
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: quality meat once it's in the freezer.
• 52:34
  Speaker 9: Keeping stuff as clean as possible obviously that helps out
• 52:38
  Speaker 9: our whole, you know, us processing. But it also it's
• 52:42
  Speaker 9: gonna you're gonna get more meatback because we don't have
• 52:44
  Speaker 9: to trim as much off. Yeah, and then I'd say,
• 52:46
  Speaker 9: I know Yanny and I have talked about this weasoning, right,
• 52:50
  Speaker 9: but just at least getting that wind pipe out of there,
• 52:52
  Speaker 9: because that thing carries so much bacteria and it'll hold
• 52:56
  Speaker 9: onto heat too. And so if you can pull that
• 52:57
  Speaker 9: out of there, you're gonna get meat. You're gonna things
• 53:01
  Speaker 9: are just gonna stay cleaner.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: So do you have any we do.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Get you got any opinions on gutting versus gutless method?
• 53:13
  Speaker 9: No, not really. I mean, if you can get as
• 53:16
  Speaker 9: much meat as possible off with the gutless method, that's fine.
• 53:18
  Speaker 9: I I I tend to pick up a lot of roadkill.
• 53:22
  Speaker 9: We live on a highway. Yeah, you know, I go,
• 53:25
  Speaker 9: I am on it all the time, so I see
• 53:27
  Speaker 9: when stuff gets hit and I'll pick it up. So
• 53:28
  Speaker 9: I end up doing a lot of gutless method because
• 53:31
  Speaker 9: those things are usually a little exploded, and I don't
• 53:34
  Speaker 9: see a problem with it. You know if you can,
• 53:36
  Speaker 9: If you can gut it, that's great and get the
• 53:38
  Speaker 9: whole thing out. Obviously you're gonna get a little bit
• 53:40
  Speaker 9: more meat off that. But no, I have no problem
• 53:43
  Speaker 9: with the gutless method at all.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Gotcha? Okay, what are like the most common mistakes people
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: are making out there?
• 53:55
  Speaker 9: I think, you know, not not planning the head to
• 53:59
  Speaker 9: keep clean and I don't if you want to throw
• 54:03
  Speaker 9: even a trash bag in your in your pack and
• 54:06
  Speaker 9: just lay it down, it's going to weigh nothing, and
• 54:08
  Speaker 9: you're gonna have a place to put that meat on.
• 54:10
  Speaker 9: When you're pulling off quarters or whatever. You can put
• 54:12
  Speaker 9: it on the hide, but the hides off and dirty.
• 54:14
  Speaker 9: You know, I run into that problem too. It's it's
• 54:16
  Speaker 9: hard to keep things super clean as far as bringing
• 54:19
  Speaker 9: stuff to us. When you're putting stuff into game bags,
• 54:23
  Speaker 9: don't try to keep things in as big, like the
• 54:26
  Speaker 9: biggest chunks possible, right Because when I open a game
• 54:29
  Speaker 9: bag and there's a bunch of little pieces that fall out,
• 54:31
  Speaker 9: there's not a lot I can do. I can't trim that,
• 54:33
  Speaker 9: and if it's already a little bit dirty, it's going
• 54:36
  Speaker 9: to go in the trash.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, if you're if you're on like a big backcountry
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: hunt miles in, it's tempting to debone those quarters. But
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: if you're taking it to someone like Anna, it's like
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: not the best thing for her to work on. So
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: something if you.
• 54:55
  Speaker 9: Can debone it and keep it. You know, big chunks
• 54:59
  Speaker 9: all good, but it's a little you know, I'll dump
• 55:01
  Speaker 9: out and it'll be like.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: A little quarter size mystery chunks, not a lot.
• 55:04
  Speaker 9: Yeah, exact, Yeah, exactly.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: And how fast can you do an elk, not wrapped
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: but just just skinned, broken down into into you know,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: rose steaks and maybe a pile of grind.
• 55:21
  Speaker 9: That's a good question. I mean i'd say two hours, maybe.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Two hours probably, Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 9: I don't usually. I mean I'm either like skinning it
• 55:31
  Speaker 9: and hanging it or it's already quarter and then I'm
• 55:35
  Speaker 9: going to go cut it. But you know, like I
• 55:38
  Speaker 9: used to, I got into this from working at a
• 55:40
  Speaker 9: shop and I worked on the kill floor and I
• 55:42
  Speaker 9: would skin and got thirty sheep in a day, sometimes
• 55:47
  Speaker 9: twenty before lunch. So I can skin and got pretty fast. Yeah,
• 55:51
  Speaker 9: it's just cutting. It'll take a little bit longer.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, are there anything You probably have a pretty
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: good clientele that knows what they're doing. But are there
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: some things that might cause you to like just to
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: refuse working on an animal or like a set of
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: quarters or whatever.
• 56:10
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I've learned my lesson as far as like checking
• 56:14
  Speaker 9: in game bags before I take stuff, especially if it's
• 56:17
  Speaker 9: from people I don't know. Last year, I got the
• 56:20
  Speaker 9: dirtiest stuff I've ever seen, Like you would have thought
• 56:23
  Speaker 9: they tied it to the back of their truck and
• 56:25
  Speaker 9: just drug it for the dirt to bring it out.
• 56:27
  Speaker 9: But and I didn't realize that until after the fact,
• 56:30
  Speaker 9: So I did charge them. I'll charge a dirty feet,
• 56:32
  Speaker 9: you know, if there's not if I don't see it beforehand.
• 56:35
  Speaker 9: And then like during archery season, we'll have people call
• 56:38
  Speaker 9: and they didn't really have a plan and there's been
• 56:40
  Speaker 9: you know, an antelope that's been in the hot garage
• 56:43
  Speaker 9: for two days, and it's like, I'm not going to
• 56:46
  Speaker 9: take that on because the meat's going to be spoiled. Yeah,
• 56:49
  Speaker 9: it's not worth putting, you know, our business at risk
• 56:53
  Speaker 9: to give you something that might make you sick or
• 56:55
  Speaker 9: isn't going to taste very good. Yeah, So I think
• 56:57
  Speaker 9: having a plan beforehand, whether it's know that you're gonna
• 57:00
  Speaker 9: get out and you're gonna call a few people see
• 57:02
  Speaker 9: if they have openings, and you know, if they don't,
• 57:04
  Speaker 9: you you're if you have a last minute plan that
• 57:06
  Speaker 9: you can at least do it. But don't let it
• 57:09
  Speaker 9: hang to the point that it rots. That drives me.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: If you were giving advice to someone who's just getting
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: in up processing their own animal, like, what would you
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: tell them like as far as what they need to
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: know or what equipment they absolutely should get themselves.
• 57:29
  Speaker 9: Just don't overthink it. You know, you really can't mess
• 57:31
  Speaker 9: it up. You might not get the cut that you
• 57:33
  Speaker 9: want because you accidentally cut through it or whatever, but
• 57:36
  Speaker 9: everything can be at least turned into burger or sausage,
• 57:39
  Speaker 9: So don't stress too hard about it. Watch some YouTube videos.
• 57:43
  Speaker 9: There's some really good videos out there that will show
• 57:47
  Speaker 9: breakdown and seam. Butchering is is pretty easy. I mean
• 57:52
  Speaker 9: you can you can see, you know, like inside round
• 57:55
  Speaker 9: sirloin tip you can see it on there and yeah,
• 58:01
  Speaker 9: but you don't have to go crazy with it. Don't
• 58:03
  Speaker 9: stress yourself out. Everything's edible as long as it's clean.
• 58:08
  Speaker 9: As far as tools to have, honestly, a sharp knife
• 58:14
  Speaker 9: is about all you need when I'm doing game processing.
• 58:17
  Speaker 9: That's all I use, and I don't. Jesse and I
• 58:20
  Speaker 9: were just talking about this. He makes knives and he
• 58:24
  Speaker 9: has the ability to, you know, sharpen stuff with his grinder.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: We don't.
• 58:28
  Speaker 9: We really don't sharpen our knives. And for as much
• 58:30
  Speaker 9: as we use them, you'd think that we'd be sharpening them,
• 58:32
  Speaker 9: but we use I have it here. This is my savior.
• 58:37
  Speaker 9: It's a honing steel. Yeah, and that's all I use.
• 58:41
  Speaker 9: And like you know, in the summer, I butcherr chickens
• 58:44
  Speaker 9: and I'll do over three hundred chickens a day and
• 58:47
  Speaker 9: I that's all use and I won't even sharpen it
• 58:50
  Speaker 9: at the end of the day. So I think for people,
• 58:52
  Speaker 9: I think knives become sort of a a stressor. I
• 58:56
  Speaker 9: don't know how to sharpen it. I don't know what
• 58:58
  Speaker 9: you know what knife to get? You can get a
• 59:01
  Speaker 9: big cornox, or you can spend money on a knife.
• 59:03
  Speaker 9: But as long as you've got it, like I would say,
• 59:07
  Speaker 9: honing steel is really all you need to learn how
• 59:09
  Speaker 9: to use it.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: And but I think the key, it'll say, yea, the
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: key and right, is that you're using that honing steel constantly.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Through the day and you don't let that blade get
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: to the point where you can't bring it back, or
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: do you feel like you can actually sharpen a blade
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: that's like completely dull. Can you bring it back just
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: with that steel or at that point do you have
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: to grind it a little bit?
• 59:34
  Speaker 9: At that point, you need to grind it a little bit,
• 59:35
  Speaker 9: because that's steel. What it's doing. There's burrs on the
• 59:38
  Speaker 9: edge of that knife, and as you're cutting, they're going
• 59:40
  Speaker 9: to fold over, and this honing steel is just lining
• 59:43
  Speaker 9: the burrs up again. So it'll start to feel like
• 59:46
  Speaker 9: it's dull. It's not. It's just those burrs are out
• 59:49
  Speaker 9: of line, and so you hone it back into a
• 59:52
  Speaker 9: line and it'll be sharp again. But if you've got
• 59:54
  Speaker 9: something that is past the point of you know, the
• 59:57
  Speaker 9: whole edge is rolled over or whatever, you're gonna have
• 59:59
  Speaker 9: to use a stone or a grinder grinding belt.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I got one more for you, and uh, I want
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: to get your opinion. There's like people choose you know,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: lead bullets or copper bullets, solid bullets, like for various reasons,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: but from from from your perspective as someone who's cutting
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: up meat all the time, what would you choose? Would
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: you choose like a lead bullet or a solid copper
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: bullet as far as like getting getting good meat.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 9: You know, I've I've thought about this a lot, and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 9: I feel like this, the copper versus lead, it's so complicated. Yeah,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 9: you know, it'd be an interesting experiment to sort of
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 9: ask people as they drop stuff off what they used, right,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 9: I mean I will find stuff sometimes, like I last year,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 9: you know, I pulled a couple of copper bullets out
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 9: of an elk shank. I don't really know what was
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 9: going on there, but so I will find stuff. I'll find,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 9: you know, something in the ribs or in the if
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 9: if something gets stuck in a shoulder blade or whatever.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 9: But it kind of runs the gamut. I mean, I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 9: find all kinds of stuff. And I really think, like
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 9: my understanding and my my feeling on this is just
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 9: it depends on the caliber you're using, It depends on
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 9: how far you think you're going to be shooting, and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 9: sort of your confidence in even recovering an animal, right,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 9: because in my mind it's like the whole the lead
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 9: thing is like, if you're not sure that that animal
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 9: is going to go down, then that's really where you
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 9: hate some issues. And like, you know, we do mobile
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 9: slaughter when we're not doing game processing, we're doing bubble slaughter,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 9: and we use lead, but and we're using thirty eight
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 9: special or I'm trying to think what else we have
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 9: right now. I think we're just using thirty eight specially
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 9: right now. But that's lead. But we also just can
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 9: pull it out of the skull in the back of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 9: the neck. We know where that's going, so look at it.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Can you look at a front quarter on an elk
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: or a deer that's that was shot in the shoulder
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: and be like, oh, I know what that was. Like
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: do you see more damage from one or the other.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 9: Or I don't think I noticed so much as far
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 9: as copper or lead. I notice caliber, oh really Like yeah, Like, well,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 9: you know there's a I picked up a deer from
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 9: a kid the other day and he's like, oh, I
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 9: shot all the way through it. I shot it with
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 9: the two forty three and then another kid that had
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 9: shot with three blew up both shoulders and I don't
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 9: I don't know if they were copper lad. I didn't
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 9: ask them. Yeah, it's like, man, you can tell, yeah,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 9: for sure, tell caliber, I'd say, but yeah, I don't know.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 9: I I you mentioning that makes me want to ask
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 9: next season and sort of like take a survey.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you guys got anything for.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 9: You?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Look like you're falling asleep over there.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 7: Geez.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: No, I was just thinking about how I didn't.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: I meant to defrost some steaks this morning from the
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: elki dropped off yesterday, and I realized I failed to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: do that, So I'm gonna have to run home and
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: get the souv'd fired up.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: Probably that's okay, that works.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 9: That was fun cutting your olk because we have a
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 9: I've got this old band saw. That makes game processing
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 9: pretty fun because I can do you know, like blade
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 9: in shoulder Rose. I can do osbooka really easily cut
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 9: short ribs if someone brings out ribs. Yeah, and did
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 9: cutting for people like to cook?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: Anna did sit in the bison that my wife shot
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: last year, and and we got ribs, and we got
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: tomahawk steaks, and we got abuco bones and then we
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: got just like long cut marrow bones out of the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: whole thing.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Speaking of that kind of stuff, Anna, ribs and osabuco
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: and stuff. What what?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: What do you most often see like that they gets
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: tossed or left on the carcass that hunters should be keeping.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: What like obviously they're you know, wanting waste laws where
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: they have to keep certain stuff, But what do you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: see getting left behind? Well, and it could even be
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: like organs.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 9: I'm a big fan of the tougher cuts, so like
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 9: neck meat. I like doing the sort of low and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 9: slow cooking. Neck roasts are awesome. I also understand if
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 9: people don't want to be cooking with the spinal cord
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 9: in there and you're worried about seayby and stuff, But
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 9: if you bone out that neck, that's really nice stew meat.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 9: I also on elk because I do this on beef
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 9: all the time. You can pull the cheeks out, and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 9: cheek meat is one of my favorite. It is so good.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 9: And elk have at least big enough cheeks in people
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 9: worth a deer might be a little like silver dollar size,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 9: but yeah, you just throw those in a Dutch oven
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 9: and cook for sure. They're so good. Yeah, and you
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 9: know tongues, people pull out tongues a lot. Hearts I
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 9: like seeing that, and then livers if they're good. I'm
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 9: a big liver fan. I know plenty of people aren't,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 9: which is fair, but yeah, I don't know. I think
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 9: the more you play with it, the more you hunt,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 9: the more you've got, you know, options of what to cook.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 9: And it's really fun to get creative with it because
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 9: it does you can get a little boring after a while,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 9: you know, just cooking back strapped and burger.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: All right, you guys, got anything else or we want
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: to move on. We're good.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Thanks Anna, Thank you, Anna.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: All right, get to work.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks for having me. I will.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks again.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: All right, Hot tip Off time? Oh geez, are you ready?
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: No, we need to play the jingle.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 6: I I'm tired of this jingle.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: Guys, Okay, feel's tired of it.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: But we're gonna play it anyway, that's all.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of tired of it too, philm.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: No, it's so good.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: There's just some there's some segments we do a lot
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: because they're good segments like hot tip Off, and we
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: hear that jingle all the time, and it doesn't help
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 6: that it's one of the more poppy, i'd say, annoying
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 6: creating jingles. I think you're right, we got to bring
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 6: back we got to bring back tattoos. I regret Brody
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 6: is thoroughly annoyed.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: Right now.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: I love all of Phil's songs except for that one.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I hate it.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 6: I got to kill the segment then, sorry.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: Guys.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Hot Tip Off where two listeners go head to head
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: with competing pieces of advice, and after we hear each tip,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: we'll chat about who we think should win, but the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: audience is going to decide who does win. If you
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: got a hot tip yourself, take one minute ish video
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: and email it to radio at themediater dot com and
• 1:06:56
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• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: into the show show and win something. We do have
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: a price today.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was gonna ask, is there something that
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: they're winning? Just fun.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 5: Goodness, gracious backpack?
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: What's this thing called again? Be honest?
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: Oh I know you're gonna ask me that it's the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: uh transfer light.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got like it's like Santa's toy bag man.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: We got stuff in there. We gotta signed copy of
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: the Meat Eater calendar there, which you guys should go
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: buy if you don't have one, because we kicked back
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: some money to b h A. It's a great like
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: stocking stuffer.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: Buy some for your friends family.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's not expensive.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 9: Man.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: Anybody who loves trucks or the F word, they'll get
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: a kick out of it, exactly.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: And also in there was a rattle bag. This is
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: a that's the felt smash and clash.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: I like that.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: So there you go. Got some stuff for white tail hunters.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: And that's a hell of a hell of a hall.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: I think you could use this bag for other stuff.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I like you could throw I'd use it
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: for bird hunting. I'd put it in my boat and
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: shove some stuff in there. It's not just for white tails.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: So there we go. There's our prize. Let's see here.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Who do we got. Let's see the hot tips.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Caden Bonner and Dak Cash. So make sure you're
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: throwing your boat in. Uh, and we'll figure out who
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: the winner is. Philly, Philly, ready to roll them.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: Let's do it, Caden Bonter, this is good.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: I'm already.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 8: My name is Caden, and I am from Nebraska. This
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 8: last weekend we were out for Nebraska rifle season and
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 8: heard a bunch of coyokes and so we were trying
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 8: to figure out how to call them in and make
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 8: a predator call. So pulled out a little debbie out
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 8: of my backpack, which most hunters should have, and came
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 8: up with how to make comparator call.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 5: Like that and then just pulled tight.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: Improvisers, Yeah, like.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: That definitely would work.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 8: And that is how you make a predator call out
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 8: of a little bebby wrapper.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: There we go, dack cash.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 10: Hey me, your crew had a hot tip for you,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 10: mostly for small game hunters, especially squirrels. If you don't
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 10: like packing your squirrels out in a game bag or
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 10: a vest like you gotta do, cut your little a
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 10: little green limb by like this, sharpen one end. Got
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 10: a squirrel by the back leg Rip those two side
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 10: toes off, sometimes harder than others. You can use your
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 10: knife if you want to. Once you rip those toes,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 10: stick the stick in between pennons and the bones. You
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 10: got a squirrel carrier.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 5: It's like a fish.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 10: And if you don't, if you get tired to carry it,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 10: you can stick it in You're built looke.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 5: That's the whole system. I love it.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Nice early man tool there, So that part I like
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: a lot hands free.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 10: You want to make a squirrel come out and look
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 10: at you, you can click the tail. Thank you God
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 10: that cash.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Mark and so play nickmes are here, Randall?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: Who you like?
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 9: Oh?
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: I like?
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: Caden won me over at first because of his commitment
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: to Little Debbie snack products. I think that was an
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: oatmeal cream pie, one of the one of the finest
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: I used to house those things.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 11: Yeah, we get, but man, I'm just Dak charmed me
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 11: with his accent, with his innovative uh, squirrel handling techniques,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 11: and just the versatility of that whole tip.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: You're honest, I'll have to agree. I mean it's very
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: uh what do you call it when you like come
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: up with something on the spot.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: Improvising?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Cad cat how do you say his name?
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Caen?
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: Caden?
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: Improvised great? And you know it happened. I wish you
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: would have told us if they actually called something in
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean both of these guys improvised great.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're good tips.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: But you know, and the thing is is, if I
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: were out deer hunting and I heard some coyotes, I
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: would think, uh, damn, I don't have a predator call.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 5: I think what can I do to make a predator?
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Definitely it's close.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: I like that mindset.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: I like the idea of just building something on the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: spot too, Like you don't always got to go, you know,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: buy something, You can just make it right there. It's cool,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: you know. So I'm leaning towards DAK. But it doesn't
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: matter what we think, It matters what the audience thinks.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 6: Phil, I'd say one of our listeners was in a
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 6: runaway lead, and the poll is tightening quickly. Really, so
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 6: your votes matter. Get in there. Yeah, we'll give it
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 6: another thirty seconds or so.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: You got any other comments we can hit while we're
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: You're Italian votes and oh.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 6: Sure, let's see here. Cliff is wondering, serious question. Are
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 6: we going to see Randall Clause this year?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: Just wait tbd TBD, but gotta watch it.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: Just the thing is, you got to believe he doesn't
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: come unless you believe.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: It's like the Polar Express.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: But I feel like you and Brent are kind of
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: battling for Santa Claus rights around.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Well, Brent's a Southerner, he can't win.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but he's got it.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 6: Well, that's both of you guys are going to be
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 6: on that live tour. Yeah, you guys had like, you know,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: a rock paper scissors Rochambeau. Who's going to be taking.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: Brent's doing it. I tried to.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: I tried to insert myself, but I didn't want to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: be like I'd like to be Santa. I didn't want
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: to put myself on that. I just said, you know,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: if you needs someone to wear the whole time, I'll
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 4: do that.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe he could be Father Christmas and you'd be like
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: his apprentice.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: Or we could be different regional variations on Santa, like
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: I would be. I would be Chris Kringle or some
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: sort of Germanic.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Right, have a lot of He might get tired and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: need a break.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he is older, he might tire out.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stay tuned for Randall Claus. I want Phil well Man.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 6: It's hard for me to I'm gonna give them another
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 6: thirty seconds because it's so close.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Let's do one more.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we should see three hundred and thirty four votes
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: in there, guys.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 6: Okay, If you guys could sacrifice Steve to the hunting
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 6: gods and return for any tag species or location, what
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 6: would it be? This is from Evan M.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: I'd probably go on some super expensive stone sheep huntains
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: stone sheep.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if I mean, I'd love a mountain
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: goat hunt. But given the given that we're sacrificing Steve
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: for this, I feel like you sort of owe it
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: to Steve.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: To go for the big, high dollar hunt.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you go do a Kate Buffalo.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: Do a Marco polo hunt.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Man, I'd take aim. I know it's Steve, but I'd
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: take it.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Just a big horn hunt right here, Montana.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that question would be pretty cool.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 6: This is wild. It is flipping back and forth every
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 6: two or three seconds.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: I can't Clara Winner, then we're just gonna happen.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 6: I will, But over two hundred people who are watching
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 6: this right now have not voted.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: Can Can we set a timer?
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 6: Should I set a timer?
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 6: Sixty more seconds? We have to. We have to end
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 6: it at some point.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: All right, one more comment. We'll come back into Clara Winner.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my teeth are about to float, all.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 6: Right, hold on honest as to pee in the timer?
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 5: Oh I see does.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: Bring a key bottle into the studio.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: I thought that was like a comment about it malnourished.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 6: Do we have any muzzleloader people's muzzleoader experience at the
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: table here? Maybe is asking what muzzleloader powder bullet combo
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 6: have you found to be most accurate.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: If he's talking about inline muzzleloaders, which I have much
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: more experienced with, Like you can't go wrong, like with
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: a TC muzzleloader in line blackhorn. It's just like the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: regular black horn black powder. It might even be synthetic
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: black powder, and I use uh, I think it's Federal's
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: copper bullets. And I've done real well with that combination.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: And it probably depends a lot on the state that
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: you're in and what they're right.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: They got different, different rules for sure, but like I
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: don't A lot of the inline muscle loaders these days
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: are set up for magnum loads of one hundred and
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: fifty grains. I have found that I've gotten way better
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: accuracy results by not going with you can choose what
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: load you use. You don't have to use one hundred
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: and fifty grains of powder, and I've always done way
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: better with about one hundred grains accuracy wise. And I
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: shot a Shyris kow moose with that set up and
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: it went right.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: Through both of her shoulders, So there you go.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 6: Okay, I let it run And the person who started
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 6: off in the lead also ended up winning our winner
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 6: with fifty three percent of the vote at the end
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 6: on nail.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: That's not even close in a presidential election, Phil No,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: but it was fifty to fifty going back and forth
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: for a while.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 6: So so the guy's fan stepped up, and that person
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: is Dak with the squirrel holder.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 5: Squirrelman, Dak. Congratulations, he doesn't need.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: That squirrel holder anymore. You can shove him all in
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: his bag.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: That's congrats, Dak.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 4: Beautiful work everybody, and we'll have our producer Jake reach
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: out to you.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 6: Who is He's actually in the room today from Missoula.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 6: He's in Bozeman. I don't do have his camera on.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 6: I do have his camera on.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Say hi Jae.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 9: He is.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: All right, Thanks everyone for tuning in. Before we go,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: we've got some uh, we've got some great new gifty
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: stuff in the store. We've got some new gnome uh
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: Gnome logo where we've got some some of our spices
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: up there now, spice mixes that Bayou Boil I can
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: tell you is very good. I've used it a couple
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: of times on some fish and it's great.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: Live tour guys, what do you got to say about that.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 5: Getting excited, getting real excited.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Some of those venues are getting close to selling out,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: so people need to buy their tickets.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 4: Last I saw that it's like eighty percent sold out,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 4: which is compared to prior years. Like one of the
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: venues is already Fetville.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Clay Clay's crew came out in force.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Clayre's family, Yeah, Clay's extended Mountain family.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they came down from the very supportive.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's always fun to go do do these things.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's a marathon, but we'll have
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: a good time.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: You guys.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 6: More most is from Moor. He was setting us up
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 6: for this question for Randall and Jan Sorry Brody, but
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 6: he's he's asking how nervous do you guys get before
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 6: it Tour's.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: Good to hear from Moor, even if it's at the
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 5: very end.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like Mogar is starting to have a little
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: too much influence on this show.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 5: Nope, Nope, he's.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 6: Been nothing but supportive and kind.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: I'll say this, Mogor last year, I was very, very
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: nervous before the first show, and then it was like
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: a drug and I couldn't get.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 5: Enough of it. Just the life of a showman.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: Sure those weren't the beers you had before the show.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: Could have been a few of those. But just going
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: out there have fun. Uh, And I'm a warrior. I
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: get stressed out about things to get anxious. But god,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: it's like a drug just being on the stage with
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: the hot spotlight on you, the microphone in your hand,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: and they're just eating from the ether. They're just eating
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: from your palm. Oh, nothing better. Working on some great material.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: Need to workshop a at a couple of stand up
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: nights this week, but we should be good to go.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: Nice. I need to work on my material too. I've
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: got I feel like I've got a decent amount of stories.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I haven't actually recited it yet, but yeah,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: we've been doing it so long now, Mulgora that it's
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: just you just realize that, I don't know, people in
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: the audience are more they're more nervous than you are.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Right, you're honest. What do we got going on with roasts?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a new episode dropped, maybe already on meter YouTube channel.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: It's Best Burger episode. Brody Anderson faces off with Nate
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Mason from f HF Gear.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 6: Oh, big guy and.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Good, great guy.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 6: It was live as of an hour ago, so.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Go watch it and tell us what you think in
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: the comments, and if you have any ideas for media
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: or roast, drop in the comments too. Love to love
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: to hear ideas on how to make that show better.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks for watching.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: All right, signing off, We'll see you guys next week. Thanks.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: Let's Oh no wait, I forgot almost ended the stream
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 5: So cool if the outro had played right As soon
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: as I said that, I tried