Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 4) (8/4/26)

Transcript

Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 4) (8/4/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: where we left off with Kathy Rumler and her interview
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with Congress. Question. Were you shocked at all that mister
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Epstein was granted pretty compassionate work release? Answer? I didn't
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: know anything about the circumstances of that, you know, I didn't. Certainly,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: compassionate release in law enforcement circles has a particular it
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: has a very specific meaning, and it typically has to
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: do with poor health or something like that. I didn't
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: understand it to be anything along those lines. I believe
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: that the state, you know, ultimately this was a state
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: resolution that the federal government, you know, the federal government
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: had made a decision not to prosecute him, but it
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: was a state resolution. And the inference that I drew
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: as a former federal prosecutor is that they reached the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: conclusion that he wasn't, you know, some kind of threat
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to the community. And again, that was also something that
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: was consistent with someone who the evidence showed didn't intentionally
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: target miners for sex. So it was just another factor,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: if you will, that again, drawing on my experience, suggested
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to me that this case was a case in which
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: he was, you know, he was a customer of a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: prostitution customer. Question thank you, mister Emmer. We've had another
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: member join. Can he please announce himself for the record. Yeah,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Congressman Christian Menefee, Texas eighteen. Mister Grant, Thank you, sir.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Question switching gears a little bit. We're coming towards the
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: end of the first hour here. Have you ever met
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Glaine Maxwell? Answer yes. Question when did you first meet
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Glaine Maxwell? Answer? I've only met her once. The context
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: of the meeting was that she was involved in civil
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: litigation and her lawyer there was either the litigation was
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: in New York, and her lawyer there was some type
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: of proceeding in the case, and as is very calm
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in practice, her lawyer asked whether she could they could
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: use a conference room as a professional courtesy at my
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: law firm, because her lawyer didn't have an office in
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: New York, and so when they came to us to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: use the conference room, I went by to say hello
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: as a professional courtesy. Question. Did mister Epstein inform you
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: that she would have a lawyer reaching out to you? Answer? No.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: The lawyer had asked again. Her lawyer had asked whether
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: she could use a conference room at my law firm
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: as a professional courtesy, and of course I said yes.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Question and roughly when was this? Answer gosh, I don't remember.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what year it was. Question were you
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: aware of miss Maxwell's relationship with mister Epstein at the time? Answer?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I knew that he knew her, and I knew that
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: she had been the subject of public allegations at the time,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know anything about, you know, what his
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: relationship was with her. Question did mister Epstein discuss those
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: public allegations of miss Maxwell with you? Answer about miss Maxwell,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: there were yes, in so far as they were part
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: of a set of allegations that were made by a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: woman who said she had been victimized by Epstein and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: many others. So they were all related to allegations put
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: forth by you know, one victim, and the allegations were extensive.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Question and did mister Epstein discuss those allegations with you? Answer? Yes,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: he did to the extent that there were media inquiries
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: around arising from those allegations. So it was in the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: context of media inquiries that he, you know, he talked
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: to me about it and asked my point of view
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: about it. Question and did he explain any of the
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: details or facts to you or try to make a
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: case to you of why they were or were not true? Answer?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: He just told me that they weren't true. There wasn't
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: quite you know, just quite unequivocally. Question and then other
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: than this one time miss Maxwell used the office at
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: your law firm, did you have any other interaction with
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell? Answer no question. Any other communications answer no question,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: meetings answer no question. Were you aware that mister Epstein
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: regularly entertain young women at his residences? Answer entertained. No question.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: When around mister Epstein, how did mister Epstein act towards
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the young women or girls that were around them? Answer?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I never saw any girls. I never saw any girls
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: around them at all. If you by that you mean
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: anyone under the age of eighteen. Question any young women
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: at all, twenties, low thirties. Answer well, I wouldn't refer
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to women in their twenties as girls, so I'm just
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: trying to be precise as to language. I never saw
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: anybody under the age of eighteen in mister Epstein's presence,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: with the exception of a meeting that I was attending
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: with my client and my clients one of my client's daughters.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Question did mister Epstein ever discuss his relationship with young
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: women in your presence? Answer? He did not discuss his
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: relationship with women. I knew he had a girlfriend that
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I had met on one or two occasions when I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: went to his townhouse for meetings, and his girlfriend was
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the same girlfriend for the entire period of time that
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I knew him. I didn't ask how old she was,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: but to my eyes, she looked about thirty. Question and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: who was that girlfriend? Answer? Her name was Crinia. I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: can't remember her last name. Question did you ever witness
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein engage at any sexual contact? Answer absolutely not.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Question did you ever witness mister Epstein have sexual contact
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: of any kind with any young woman or girl? Answer no.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Question Did you ever witness mister Epstein sexually abuse or
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: assault young women or girls? Answer no. Question did mister
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you?
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Answer no, Mister Fishman, except for what she's already described,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Miss Rumler jumps in, except for the historical conduct that
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: led to his guilty plea in Florida. Mister Grant understood. Question.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Did you ever witness mister Epstein receive a massage from
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a young woman or a girl? Answer no question. Did
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you ever witness mister Epstein pay women for massages? Answer
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: no question. Did you ever witness mister Epstein giving cash
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to young women or girls? Answer no question. Did you
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: ever hear about mister Epstein receiving massages? Answer no other
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: than what we previously talked about the conduct arising to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: his that gave rise to the guilty plea. Question did
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein ever discuss getting massages? Answer no other than
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: again what he told me about the conduct that caused
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: them that forced him to plead guilty in two thousand
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: and eight? Question did you ever receive a massage from
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: any young woman or girl brought to you by or
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: introduce to you by mister Epstein? Answer absolutely not. Question
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: have you ever been contacted by any law enforcement agency
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Glaine Maxwell? Answer no question. Have
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you ever been interviewed by any law enforcement agency concerning
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Answer no question. Have you
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: ever provided any information to law enforcement agencies concerning Jeffrey
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Epstein or Glean Maxwell. Answer no question. Did Jeffrey Epstein
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: ever inform you or represent to you that he was
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: working with intelligent services of any nation, including the United States?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Answer no question. Did Glenn Maxwell ever inform you or
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: represent to you that she was working with any intelligence
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: service of any nation, including the United States? Answer no question.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: During your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein or Glaine Maxwell, did
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you ever suspect either of them being affiliated with any
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: intelligence agency? Answer? I had no relationship with Glenn Maxwell.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: The answer to both of them is no question. And
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: at any time have you had an affiliation with any
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: intelligence agency? Answer well, by affiliation, I was White House
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: counsel and a senior Justice Department official. In that capacity,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I dealt with the d and I, the CIA, and
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the NSA, NDOD. Question but did you formally work answer
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Senate an Intelligence Committee, House Intelligence Committee question? Did you
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: not formally work for any of those agencies? Answer? I
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: did not know. Now mister Grant jumps in and announces
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that there's another member of Congress that has joined the party.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: That member yassamin and sorry, mister Grant, thank you, and
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that will conclude our first hour redacted. Let's go back
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to the record. Now, it's Jasmine Crockett piping in and
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: for the purposes of the record, Representative Jasmine Crockett, Texas
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: thirty is present. Mister Lynch, could you please introduce yourself
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: for the record, sure, Congressman Steve Lynch, eighth Congressional District
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of Massachusetts. Mister redacted, I just have one note before
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: we begin, To the extent that any of our questions
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: or your answers contain the names of survivors or their
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: identifying information, we would ask that the Majority redact that
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: information prior to releasing the transcripts publicly. And with that,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: let's get started. Question by redacted. So, Miss Rumler, in
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: the Majority's first hour, you talked a bit about attending
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein's twenty nineteen arraignment and hearing the charges and
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: learning about those charges in the indictment. Do you remember
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: what those charges were? Answer? I do. In general, it
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: was conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking. I believe it
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: was two counts. One was conspiracy count and the second
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: one was you know what, we would all the substantative
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: count of sex trafficking, and in particular, the indictment alleged
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: that Epstein had enticed and recruited miners minor girls for
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: sex in exchange for cash. Question do you recall what
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: he used to entice or recruit those miners? Answer, well,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: not specifically. I don't remember that the indictment was specific
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: in that regard. You know, typically for a federal indictment,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: there would need to be some instrumentality of interstate commerce,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: so you know, a phone call, you know, an email
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: or something like that, so that certainly would have been present,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: you know, in some respect. Question, and at the arrayment
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you were at, the government told the court that mister
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Epstein's victims were quote initially recruited to provide massages to
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the defendant, which would be a performed nude or partially nude,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: would become increasingly sexual in nature, and would typically include
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: one or more sex acts. Does that sound familiar? Answer
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that's consistent with my understanding of what the charge were. Yes,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: if I don't remember those specific words. Yes. Question by
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: mister Addaktid. I'll now introduce minority Exhibit A, which is
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a February twenty sixteen email between you and mister Epstein.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Answer yes. Question mister Epstein asked you quote we all
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: set for a day of joy. Answer yes. Question can
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you read for the record what you responded to mister Epstein.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Answer yes, I said best massage ever, but not your
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: kind of massage, and he replied shame. Answer yeah. Question.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: By February twenty sixteen, were you aware that mister Epstein
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: had used massage appointments to entrap girls and women that
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: he victimized? Answer what I understood. You know, as I
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: stated this morning, I certainly knew that he had pled
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: guilty to two prostitution related offenses and that those that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: those involved that conduct involves sexualized massages. What I understood
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: about the nature and scope of that conduct was that
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of the women who had engaged in
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: this activity with mister Epstein were over the age of eighteen,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: that some small number had turned out to be under
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, but he had believed them to
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: be over the age of eighteen. Question let's pause for
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: a second, and that's where we're gonna pause as well,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode dealing with the issue, we're
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: description box,