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Politics and Planning: What’s the Right Balance for Advisors? · Root Ready

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: Welcome back to another episode of the Root Ready Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 0: I'm your host, james Canole.
• 0:03
  Speaker 0: Today is all about how to talk politics when it comes up in client conversation, and to help us with this, I'm gonna pull some lessons learned from the musical Hamilton and try to see if we can apply these to our roles advisors and how we should approach these types of conversations with clients In Hamilton.
• 0:19
  Speaker 0: For those of you that are unaware of the musical or haven't seen it, it is the story of Alexander Hamilton, one of our founding fathers, and there's Alexander Hamilton and his character foil, which is Aaron Burr.
• 0:29
  Speaker 0: Here's a famous line from Aaron Burr in this musical.
• 0:32
  Speaker 0: Now, of course, in the musical this is set to music, to melody.
• 0:38
  Speaker 0: It's going to sound a lot better than what I'm reading off.
• 0:39
  Speaker 0: But he says talk less, smile more, don't let them know what you're against or what you're for.
• 0:44
  Speaker 0: So that's Burr.
• 0:45
  Speaker 0: That, I think, is a perfect encapsulation of who he is and what he represents, and his character foil, or the exact opposite of him, in the musical, is Alexander Hamilton.
• 0:55
  Speaker 0: There is a song later on in the musical called Farmer Refuted, and in this song it's a little bit of a battle, a little bit of a clash between Hamilton and a British loyalist and as the song progresses it gets progressively more heated, the back and forth between the two of them.
• 1:09
  Speaker 0: Hamilton starts talking about revolution.
• 1:11
  Speaker 0: Burr steps in to calm things down and says Alexander, please.
• 1:14
  Speaker 0: To which Hamilton says Burr, I'd rather be divisive than indecisive.
• 1:19
  Speaker 0: Drop the niceties.
• 1:20
  Speaker 0: So what can we learn from this, apart from this just being a very entertaining musical.
• 1:29
  Speaker 0: A lot of cool things about it.
• 1:30
  Speaker 0: Both of these were very ambitious men, both did a whole bunch of stuff, but completely different in terms of their personalities.
• 1:32
  Speaker 0: Now, spoiler alert, I do not know.
• 1:33
  Speaker 0: Did not know Alexander personally or Burr personally.
• 1:36
  Speaker 0: So if that's not obvious by now, I'm only taking this based upon what I read in the book and what I saw from the musical.
• 1:41
  Speaker 0: But you have Alexander Hamilton.
• 1:43
  Speaker 0: He is confrontational, he speaks his mind, he's very ideological.
• 1:47
  Speaker 0: Compare that to Aaron Burr.
• 1:49
  Speaker 0: He's calculated, he's tactical, he plays his cards close to his chest, he's very political and he is criticizing the play for not having any convictions.
• 1:58
  Speaker 0: There is another song, closer to the end of the musical, where Hamilton says I have never agreed with Jefferson once.
• 2:03
  Speaker 0: We have fought on like 75 different fronts.
• 2:06
  Speaker 0: But when all is said and done, jefferson has beliefs, burr has none, and so what you start to get this sense of is two very different men, two very different drivers for the way that they operate.
• 2:17
  Speaker 0: One is calculated and political, one is very ideological.
• 2:21
  Speaker 0: Where's his heart on his sleeve?
• 2:22
  Speaker 0: You know exactly what he's thinking at all times, and I think about this often, both as an advisor and as a person.
• 2:28
  Speaker 0: How vocal should you be with your political beliefs?
• 2:31
  Speaker 0: What is the intent of what you're trying to accomplish?
• 2:33
  Speaker 0: And what I'm going to do is try to borrow some lessons from the Hamilton musical and say who should we be?
• 2:38
  Speaker 0: Should we be more like Hamilton?
• 2:40
  Speaker 0: Should it be more like Burr?
• 2:41
  Speaker 0: When it comes to the way we talk about politics with clients, because money is a very emotional thing.
• 2:47
  Speaker 0: Obviously, political decisions impact the way that money works or grows or performs, and this can become something that comes up in quite a bit of conversation.
• 2:55
  Speaker 0: So this obviously extends just beyond political beliefs.
• 2:59
  Speaker 0: But that is the focus of what we're going to be talking about today.
• 3:01
  Speaker 0: And before we just jump in and start to talk about what is the right approach here because there are pros and cons and there's a case we made in different approaches to this, but I always like to take a big step back.
• 3:10
  Speaker 0: Why are we talking about politics in the first place?
• 3:12
  Speaker 0: Because here's the thing Everyone that does so believes that they are right and believes that they are in this moral, righteous crusade for what they believe to be right.
• 3:20
  Speaker 0: That's not going to change.
• 3:21
  Speaker 0: You're not going to convince anyone of anything, so part of this is less of a.
• 3:24
  Speaker 0: Should you have beliefs?
• 3:25
  Speaker 0: Of course you should have beliefs.
• 3:27
  Speaker 0: I hope you have very strongly held beliefs.
• 3:29
  Speaker 0: This is more a.
• 3:30
  Speaker 0: What is our job as advisor?
• 3:32
  Speaker 0: To what degree should we incorporate our beliefs into the advice we give, the way we talk about clients versus.
• 3:37
  Speaker 0: To what degree is that not our job?
• 3:39
  Speaker 0: And to what degree does our job actually stand in opposition to the way in which we operate with some of these things?
• 3:45
  Speaker 0: And to what degree does it actually hurt our ability to do our job well?
• 3:48
  Speaker 0: So, as we go into this this obviously isn't a history lesson, but I do think that great pieces of art, of which I believe Hamilton is I think that we can pull lessons life lessons to our everyday, and I think that this is a great example of doing that.
• 4:00
  Speaker 0: Also, before we start our job.
• 4:02
  Speaker 0: If you're listening to this, you are probably a financial advisor.
• 4:05
  Speaker 0: Burr and Hamilton, they were in politics, so it's very obvious that they should be talking about politics.
• 4:10
  Speaker 0: Alexander Hamilton, one of the founding fathers, aaron Burr, was a senator, the attorney general, later vice president.
• 4:15
  Speaker 0: So I'm not trying to say that what we're doing and what they're doing is the exact same.
• 4:18
  Speaker 0: I'm just pulling some lessons here before we jump in.
• 4:21
  Speaker 0: So if you're listening to this, I'm guessing you're a financial advisor and not in some way involved in politics, of which this obviously would be a different conversation.
• 4:28
  Speaker 0: So, when issues come up, when politics come up, should we be more Burr or should we be more Hamilton?
• 4:36
  Speaker 0: Let's contrast.
• 4:36
  Speaker 0: What would that look like to be more like Burr, to be more like Hamilton, and then walk through the framework that, at least I believe.
• 4:41
  Speaker 0: Now, to be fully fair, this is probably an episode that's more personal opinion than anything else, so feel free to agree or disagree with whatever you want, but this is the way that I like to think about this.
• 4:52
  Speaker 0: Let's talk about what would this look like if we were Hamilton.
• 4:53
  Speaker 0: Hamilton, very ideological, did not hesitate to express his beliefs, to be combative when he needed to be combative, to tell people what he thought and why he believed it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 0: That's Hamilton.
• 5:01
  Speaker 0: Should that be you with your clients?
• 5:03
  Speaker 0: Maybe, maybe not.
• 5:04
  Speaker 0: The upside is you maybe build very strong rapport with people who believe the exact same way as you.
• 5:09
  Speaker 0: I don't know if it actually makes you more effective with those advisors or with those clients, I should say, but you build better rapport.
• 5:15
  Speaker 0: The downside, of course, is for the other half of the population you're probably gonna completely isolate yourself.
• 5:20
  Speaker 0: You may be fine with that, you may not be fine with that, but I think that's a potential upside is solidifying really strong relationships with people that already believe what you believe and probably isolating almost certainly isolating a lot of people that don't.
• 5:31
  Speaker 0: That might be your goal.
• 5:32
  Speaker 0: Maybe you want to work with people that are fully aligned with exactly how you see the world.
• 5:36
  Speaker 0: The Hamilton approach could help that.
• 5:38
  Speaker 0: The Hamilton approach could be very beneficial for that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 0: The downside you will alienate the people that don't agree with you.
• 5:44
  Speaker 0: So this is something that we're going to come back to.
• 5:46
  Speaker 0: Is that right?
• 5:47
  Speaker 0: Is that wrong?
• 5:47
  Speaker 0: But that's the Hamilton approach.
• 5:49
  Speaker 0: The Burr approach, the more calculated political version, is obviously the safer version.
• 5:53
  Speaker 0: By being more reserved, by being more neutral, you're, of course, not going to alienate the same people.
• 5:58
  Speaker 0: They're maybe not going to know where you stand, but you have to ask yourself is that important or not?
• 6:03
  Speaker 0: But with this approach, the goal would be to maintain that professionalism.
• 6:06
  Speaker 0: Do you keep the main thing, the main thing, by the main thing I'm saying understand what our job as an advisor is?
• 6:12
  Speaker 0: Are clients hiring us for our political beliefs?
• 6:15
  Speaker 0: In some cases, I'd actually say yeah, I see people on LinkedIn, I see people out there who have very, very strong political beliefs.
• 6:20
  Speaker 0: My guess is they're attracting people who have those very same political beliefs.
• 6:24
  Speaker 0: So if that's your goal, great.
• 6:26
  Speaker 0: But if you're an advisor and that's not your goal, your goal is not necessarily to attract people based upon their political beliefs or yours, but based on your ability to serve them and to meet their needs and help them move closer to your goals.
• 6:38
  Speaker 0: You have to think about this type of an approach.
• 6:39
  Speaker 0: Does this make more sense?
• 6:40
  Speaker 0: Is this more helpful?
• 6:41
  Speaker 0: So, as I'm looking at this and explaining this, this is not saying this is the right way to live your life.
• 6:45
  Speaker 0: This is more, in a very narrowly defined way, of how should you be the best advisor?
• 6:48
  Speaker 0: And again, this is my opinion.
• 6:50
  Speaker 0: I watched the Hamilton musical.
• 6:52
  Speaker 0: Hamilton is the more attractive character.
• 6:53
  Speaker 0: Hamilton is the person that you want to be like.
• 6:55
  Speaker 0: Hamilton is that person that has ideals, stands for what he believes is right and charges full force after it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 0: As an advisor, I default to be more in the burr type approach, going back to the line that describes burr talk less, smile more.
• 7:10
  Speaker 0: Don't let them know what you're against or what you're for.
• 7:13
  Speaker 0: That, to me, can completely be a cop out If you're afraid to express your beliefs or if you're shying away from standing for something when it matters.
• 7:21
  Speaker 0: But in this case I have to ask myself how much does it matter that my client knows exactly where I stand politically?
• 7:27
  Speaker 0: The answer to me which this is the answer is I couldn't care less.
• 7:33
  Speaker 0: If they know what I stand for politically or what I care about politically, then I am going to take more of that approach.
• 7:36
  Speaker 0: I'm going to talk less, I'm going to smile more, I'm going to let them talk about what they need to talk about and if they ask, I'm not going to be afraid to talk about it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 0: But I'm not going to feel the need to insert my opinion to tell them exactly where I stand.
• 7:48
  Speaker 0: My need to be known in this case is less important than my need to make sure that I'm guiding that client towards what they're actually hiring me for, to why I exist in their lives, which is to help them accomplish their goals.
• 8:00
  Speaker 0: I think the one way that we do this as advisors is focus more on policy, less on politics.
• 8:04
  Speaker 0: You cannot avoid the issue of politics, but the more we can focus on the specific policies.
• 8:08
  Speaker 0: Of course tax legislation is going to impact clients in different ways.
• 8:12
  Speaker 0: Of course who's in office is going to have downstream effects in different ways.
• 8:15
  Speaker 0: Of course these things are going to come up, and I think the more as advisors, we can focus on that, the better off we're going to be than the high level.
• 8:22
  Speaker 0: Who's in charge, and do we like them or do we hate them?
• 8:25
  Speaker 0: That doesn't get us anywhere, but if we can focus on policy and help communicate to the client, this is going to be the impact for you.
• 8:31
  Speaker 0: That, of course, should be our job as advisors.
• 8:34
  Speaker 0: So I think, as we start to navigate through this, as I've thought about, this is what should be.
• 8:39
  Speaker 0: The extent to which you talk about politics with the client fully depends on your goal.
• 8:43
  Speaker 0: Is your goal to make your viewpoint known?
• 8:45
  Speaker 0: If that's your goal, then, of course, talk about politics.
• 8:48
  Speaker 0: Of course, talk about who you like and who you don't like.
• 8:50
  Speaker 0: Of course, talk about what you feel you need to say, but how effective is that?
• 8:56
  Speaker 0: You need people to know where you stand.
• 8:58
  Speaker 0: Maybe you feel like you're part of the righteous crusade to make things right.
• 9:01
  Speaker 0: That might be how you feel, but we do always have to come back to reality and there's sometimes a difference between what those people believe in the righteous crusade that they're on and what the reality is in terms of how they're perceived by others, for whatever that's worth.
• 9:11
  Speaker 0: So you probably know people like this.
• 9:13
  Speaker 0: You've probably seen people like this.
• 9:14
  Speaker 0: Maybe you are someone like that.
• 9:15
  Speaker 0: If that is your goal to make your position known, absolutely talk about politics, obviously, and how many opportunities have we had in the last few years alone to do this?
• 9:24
  Speaker 0: Between Biden, between Trump, between Musk, between Israel, to do this, between Biden between Trump, between Musk, between Israel, between Palestine, between climate change, between?
• 9:31
  Speaker 0: The list goes on.
• 9:31
  Speaker 0: These are things that naturally come up in conversation because they lead to decisions being made that may impact us personally, that may not impact us personally, but these are the types of things that people have very heated opinions about, and they're the types of things where it's almost like people feel like they need to know, they need to let the world know where they stand on them, because if they don't, they somehow feel like they're hiding their beliefs in some way.
• 9:52
  Speaker 0: So if that's you, if you feel like your goal as an advisor is to let the world know where you stand, obviously talk about politics.
• 9:58
  Speaker 0: The downside it's definitely not making you a better advisor.
• 10:01
  Speaker 0: Best case scenario it is drawing people to you that are like-minded and that will follow your advice.
• 10:07
  Speaker 0: Worst case scenario is it's alienating a lot of people, but it's not actually making you a better advisor.
• 10:13
  Speaker 0: So that's the first potential reason you might talk about politics is is your goal to make your opinion known?
• 10:18
  Speaker 0: The second reason might be to convince the other side that you're right.
• 10:20
  Speaker 0: We'll keep this section very brief.
• 10:22
  Speaker 0: You're going to fail.
• 10:23
  Speaker 0: No matter how smart you are, no matter how educated you are, you're not going to change anybody's mind.
• 10:27
  Speaker 0: So let's remove any delusions of such and just recognize that If you're trying to change people's mind, it's not going to make you a better advisor.
• 10:34
  Speaker 0: It's not going to even be effective.
• 10:36
  Speaker 0: Let's move on from that case, because I think that's one that we believe we can change people's minds, but how often has our mind actually been changed by someone who had very strongly held political beliefs that were different than our own?
• 10:46
  Speaker 0: Online Answer is probably zero.
• 10:48
  Speaker 0: So let's keep going.
• 10:49
  Speaker 0: The third goal you could potentially have is to be a better advisor.
• 10:52
  Speaker 0: I would hope that that's the goal that most of us or all of us listening have.
• 10:55
  Speaker 0: How can I actually be a better advisor here, and how, or to what degree should I navigate in this political conversation on my quest to do so?
• 11:03
  Speaker 0: Now, here's the thing I have worked with many wonderful people who shared the same political beliefs I have.
• 11:08
  Speaker 0: I have worked with many wonderful people who did not share the same political beliefs that I had.
• 11:13
  Speaker 0: I cannot think of a single time where any of my clients asked me directly who I voted for or what my political beliefs are, and here's why they don't actually care.
• 11:23
  Speaker 0: People want to be heard, they want to be understood, they want to be fully known and they want you to guide them well, so when clients are bringing up political things so if I hate Trump or I love Trump, I hate Biden or I love Biden, I hate fill-in-the-blank or I love fill-in-the-blank they're not really looking for your opinion.
• 11:40
  Speaker 0: They're looking to be heard, they're looking to be understood and they're looking for you to guide them.
• 11:45
  Speaker 0: Well.
• 11:45
  Speaker 0: Now, what we need to be able to do as advisors is to keep the main thing, the main thing Let them talk, let them vent, let them share with us their feelings, and we need to have the emotional maturity, the intellectual maturity, to be able to let that conversation happen without injecting our beliefs when they're not needed, when they're not even welcome, when they're not even wanted.
• 12:05
  Speaker 0: So I do think that when these things come up, it's not avoid the conversation.
• 12:07
  Speaker 0: If someone likes a different present than I like and they bring it up, I'm not trying to avoid the conversation.
• 12:12
  Speaker 0: I'm actually gonna lean into it, I'm gonna ask questions, I'm going to try to understand, I'm going to really try to understand what's the actual thing that's bothering you and really get there.
• 12:22
  Speaker 0: Because what you're showing is you're not afraid to jump into that with a client.
• 12:25
  Speaker 0: You're not afraid to explore this with a client.
• 12:27
  Speaker 0: But it's not from a I agree with you or I disagree with you standpoint, who cares, it's from a.
• 12:32
  Speaker 0: Let me fully know you and understand you so that I can best guide you as your advisor.
• 12:41
  Speaker 0: But the point I really want to reinforce here is I don't think your clients actually care what your political beliefs are.
• 12:43
  Speaker 0: They're not bringing up political stuff so they can hear your side of the story.
• 12:46
  Speaker 0: They're bringing it up because people have this need to be known, especially when they're fearful of something, especially when they're concerned about something.
• 12:52
  Speaker 0: That's something very important for them to share.
• 12:55
  Speaker 0: So I'll go back to the first thing.
• 12:56
  Speaker 0: If your goal is to be known, you could bring this up, but I might suggest to you that nobody besides you in this client relationship actually cares what your political beliefs are.
• 13:06
  Speaker 0: So I say this because I don't think you should be fearful of wading into the political conversation.
• 13:10
  Speaker 0: But there's a way to do it with maturity.
• 13:12
  Speaker 0: There's a way to do it with objectivity, where you can ask the client, you can give them the safe space to talk about what they want to talk about, to share the way they feel about things.
• 13:19
  Speaker 0: I've had many clients share things that I feel completely contradictory towards or I feel completely in opposition to who cares.
• 13:27
  Speaker 0: I don't need them to know what I believe.
• 13:29
  Speaker 0: If they ask me directly, sure, I'll tell them, but I don't need to offer my opinion, to insert my opinion where my opinion is not being asked for.
• 13:36
  Speaker 0: I do want to ask to prompt, to get them to talk, because what that's showing is that I care about them, because I do care about them.
• 13:43
  Speaker 0: It's showing that I understand their concerns so that I can tailor my advice to help navigate some of those concerns, even if those aren't concerns that I personally share.
• 13:52
  Speaker 0: So when clients have said there's no way I'm going to retire with Biden in office and all this chaos he's causing, I didn't jump in and share my beliefs.
• 13:59
  Speaker 0: Likewise, when people said there's no way I'm retiring with Trump in office and all this chaos he's causing, I'm not jumping in and sharing my beliefs.
• 14:10
  Speaker 0: Let them say what they need to say and then guide them well, know them fully and then guide them well, but remember that our job as their advisor is to keep the main thing, the main thing.
• 14:17
  Speaker 0: This applies to so much of what our job is.
• 14:19
  Speaker 0: How many times do clients come to you with concerns?
• 14:21
  Speaker 0: And if it's not political, we can remain objective.
• 14:24
  Speaker 0: Very easily remain objective and say you know what?
• 14:26
  Speaker 0: You're concerned about this, you're concerned about this temporary downturn in the market.
• 14:29
  Speaker 0: I'm going to remain objective and keep the main thing, the main thing, which is your ability to meet your long-term goals.
• 14:44
  Speaker 0: It's very easy for advisors to remain objective and to keep the main thing, the main thing.
• 14:46
  Speaker 0: They need to insert their opinion, they need to insert something about oh, you're not right about that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 0: In fact, here's why this is good for our economy and you don't think.
• 14:52
  Speaker 0: Who cares?
• 14:53
  Speaker 0: Keep the main thing, the main thing.
• 14:55
  Speaker 0: That's what our job as advisors is.
• 14:57
  Speaker 0: So this is something that I actually sometimes personally wrestle with, I think in my own life.
• 15:01
  Speaker 0: Sometimes I'm too much like Aaron Burr and not enough like Alexander Hamilton.
• 15:06
  Speaker 0: But I'm specifically talking about the context as an advisor where our political beliefs are not central to our ability to deliver effective advice to clients and to effectively get them to where they need to go.
• 15:15
  Speaker 0: But this is a question that I don't think has a perfect answer.
• 15:18
  Speaker 0: How do you balance this?
• 15:20
  Speaker 0: How do you weigh this?
• 15:20
  Speaker 0: How do you navigate and join the conversation with clients without feeling the need to insert your opinion or to derail where the conversation actually needs to go, which is, how do we keep moving them forward towards their goals?
• 15:32
  Speaker 0: But if I was to summarize, how should we approach this?
• 15:35
  Speaker 0: Number one absolutely have convictions.
• 15:38
  Speaker 0: Absolutely have things that you stand for and that you believe in.
• 15:40
  Speaker 0: But then, number two, sometimes we need to get over our own self-importance in thinking that our beliefs, our opinions need to be heard by our clients, our teammates or whoever it is.
• 15:50
  Speaker 0: And then, finally, number three, have the emotional maturity to have these adult conversations with clients, be able to wade into this political landscape and ask questions to understand, without feeling the need to insert our own opinions, so that we can move clients closer to their goals.
• 16:04
  Speaker 0: But at the end of the day, there's a very big difference between having convictions and having the need for everyone to know exactly what those convictions are.
• 16:13
  Speaker 0: And a question you can ask yourself if you're wondering how should I approach this is what's more important in this instance, or what is driving my decision to do this in this instance.
• 16:20
  Speaker 0: Is it to make my viewpoint known or is it to guide my client to their goals?
• 16:25
  Speaker 0: You can apply this to your team, too Different types of conversations but when you're bringing something up with a team member, is my goal here to make my viewpoint known or is it to promote harmony and unity within the team?
• 16:37
  Speaker 0: There's not a perfect playbook for how to operate in this, because this can be a very emotionally charged.
• 16:41
  Speaker 0: This is a very emotionally charged thing for everyone talking about politics, but our role as an advisor.
• 16:46
  Speaker 0: We cannot escape that type of conversation.
• 16:48
  Speaker 0: Instead, it's about understanding what is our end goal, what is the outcome we're looking for, and how do we wade into that conversation objectively and with the intent to serve our clients the best we possibly can.