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Be Who You Are: Why Authenticity Is the Most Underrated Leadership Skill — Saskia Van Delft · The Data Shaman Podcast - Quant Mind, Shaman Soul

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: People take responsibility for other people's emotions or they make assumptions on what's gonna happen.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I see that often in family dynamics with the people that you live with very closely, you start to expect and anticipate what they're gonna say, how they're gonna feel, and then you act accordingly.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: You behave according to what you think they're gonna think that you're gonna behave.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Which is very complicated in the worldplace.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you're grounded in yourself and you're honest and you're authentic, and you are also kind, that gets you a long way.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, uh Daniele Forni, and this is The Sage and the CEO, the show where we explore leadership, growth, and the questions that shape how we show up in the world.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Sage and the CEO podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome everyone.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here with Saskia that is joining us from the Netherlands.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Saskia, how are you doing?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me, Daniela.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, from the Netherlands today, and normally from Portugal, but uh yes, good to be here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Before we were jumping in the conversation, we were talking about how sometimes when you hear yourself in a podcast or in a recording, you always don't like your own voice.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: You struggle to see yourself in a nice way.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was wondering what what do you feel when you listen to your voice?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, so I was sharing with you that I'm I'm still a bit nervous about this being in this podcast, being a guest, and then I I've also seen some of the podcasts with our peers from the Mueller Institute program that we're in.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like they're so eloquent in how they speak and everything they have to share.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my goodness.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'm that interested, interesting, or even if I can speak that way.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a bit of a that's pulling me back a little bit.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing, seeing yourself on camera, hearing your own voice, you go, What there is always a bit of shock when you hear your own voice.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently, it is because when you when you speak, you hear your voice through your flesh and bones.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: You don't hear it necessarily through your ears.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when you actually listen to recording, you hear how you project your voice.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it is completely different.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just funny to see that how people hear us is competitive from how we hear ourselves.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I actually thought I was a pretty good singer until I recorded myself.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually a good thing though, because living in Hong Kong and going off into karaoke, I think some people need to have a bit more self-awareness of how bad singers they are.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And again, talking about these, to be honest with you, what you just said about not feeling having something interesting to say.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: It is actually something that I often hear my cochi's and clients telling me.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm always a bit fascinated by it because I am not sure whether it is confidence, whether it is they are honestly, they think their life is too simple or what So I guess this is a segue to ask you a question.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: How did you want to become an executive coach?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So going back like a long like even when my professional career started, I've always been immensely interested in people, what they think, how they behave, how they interact, what they say, what they don't say, what goes on behind like the scenes.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a theme in my life.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go through the steps that I've taken in my career, in my professional life, that's where it all started.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I spent 10 of the best years of my life being a flight attendant for KLM.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a rich people experience, cultural experience, visiting the most amazing places.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's been really impactful in in my whole life for many ways.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then being in HR, I I was I had a commercial role for a while, and then I actually came into HR because in the commercial role I didn't feel like I belonged.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I went to HR, I've been in HR for 22 years, and that's of course working with people.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in educational services, uh, leadership development.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now I got to a certain point where I left my director career behind, and I really did a reset for five months thinking about what I want to do.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this is a long answer, but it's it really became about all these experiences I had.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be with leaders, to actually speak with them, to help them become more effective and to be themselves also, to be their authentic selves and to create that safe vacuum where they can actually interact with somebody who has no stake in the decisions that they make.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I got into uh executive coaching, and that goes back to intellect my focus and interest on people.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So in all your career, you always dealt with.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I call them people, let's say dynamics or issues or I'm struggling to find a positive term to call it because relationships and dynamics are always a bit complicated in the workplace.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder whether in all those years of your career, do you see like a common mistake that people do when they deal with people?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I can actually relate that to the executive coaching or the leadership coaching I do at this point is that people take responsibility for other people's emotions or they make assumptions on what's gonna happen.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a mistake or that is just protecting ourselves, be prepared for a lot of things.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: What I notice is being grounded in yourself and you're honest and you're authentic and you are also kind.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: That gets you a long way.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's I don't know if that answers your question.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really a mistake, but it's something that I do notice.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: But that is interesting because I see that often in family dynamics where the people that you're that you live with very closely, you start to expect and anticipate what they're gonna say, how they're gonna feel, and then you act accordingly.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the other person does the same thing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically a meta behavior.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: You behave according to what you think they're gonna think that you're gonna behave.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Which is very complicated in the worldplace.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you talked about grounding.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: By grounding you mean like the way the people can uh feel authentic, or is it something else?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's relying on themselves.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So in my role as an HR manager or whatever HR world I had, I think I interacted, I know I interacted a lot with managers and also with uh employees or individual contributors who came to me with worries that I just described, and I asked them questions and try to bring them back to themselves and really ask the honest question and show a bit of vulnerability, and then the surprises didn't stop.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's like the other person that comes to a conversation or to the workplace doesn't come there with bad intentions.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about how you have your own presence and how you bring yourself, and and yes, authenticity plays a huge part in that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think people recognize that in each other, and that to me means grounding in who you are, what you believe in, your values.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite important, a bit blunt, a bit transparent in the way that you feel.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that is a good way to overcome that impasse?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, but it does depend on how you communicate this.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically in the workplace, there is room for emotion, there is room for the person you really are.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It does require a certain level of professionalism because we're in the workplace, and I think that's that's important for how you conduct yourself, how you communicate, about your feelings, what's happening with you, and the transparency you just mentioned.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Touch upon the the concept of professionalism, which is something that I often struggle in my corporate life because no one gives you like a manual how to be professional.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: In your own world, like what does it mean to be professional?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Aye, you got me there, that's a good question.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a I think it's a complicated question because, again, maybe because I'm neurodivorced and therefore I struggle to understand the social dynamics, but I honestly don't know what it means.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and it's a very broad spectrum.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Professionalism can be like you and I've spoken about clothing, right?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: About what does it mean what is professional clothing?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: That can mean something and it depends on the culture.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot depending on the culture in a company that determines professionalism.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the culture is about the dress code, it can be about how you address each other in communication, it can be about an open door policy, but there's that doesn't touch upon what you're really looking for, what is professionalism.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if I think about it, it might be about the right balance between how you bring yourself to work, set goals, and take responsibility for what is given to you in the workplace, and then also bringing some of yourself, because the person you are and what you bring makes a difference.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not how you execute the task, but it's really about who you are, what you bring, how you communicate, how you interact with other people, how you show kindness, flexibility, adaptability.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's great because it makes complete sense to me, because professionalism is effectively acting, being responsible, probably also be accountable for what's going on.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said, I really like that you say like you you should also bring something about yourself because again, depending on the culture and the place that you are working in, it's quite important.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that that that makes that makes complete sense to me.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's very interesting.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at your current practice, how they were in 2026, we see a lot of like uh uh interesting dynamics in the in the world for artificial intelligence, chaos, but also like eras that are growing very fast and whatnot.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: In your practice as a consultant and as an executive coach, what are the trends that you see?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: From an AI perspective, there's a lot of question marks, what it does and what it means in the workplace.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: People rely on it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that it makes my life a lot easier, but I also see that people are worried about how this is gonna take over maybe my work.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do hear a lot of concerns around people still being able to like create their own ideas and have their own intelligence work issues out.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's something you're surprised.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm surprised.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: He never I thought about it in that way, but please continue.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm uh I'm interested, I'm only yours.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have a very dear friend who's a uh retired airline pilot who's completely against AI, and the reason for it is because he is worried about the level of intelligence going down over the next decades and hundreds of years because people don't tap into their own intelligence anymore to solve problems or to create things.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And having some really great discussions about that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So these are some trends.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: What I see is that the uh younger generations or the new generations entering into the labor markets is I'm just amazed by how they are so clear and so determined in creating a good life uh work balance and how what they want to get out of their jobs.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that's amazing to me.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: They they really have a clear vision of this is what I want to get, and this is what I'm aiming for, this is my growth I see, and they ask for it.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's changing the dynamics of how companies have to adjust to the needs of the employees entering the labor market.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I find that fascinating.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Strangely enough, a lot of people that listen to the podcast are actually people that are just uh out of university or just finishing university.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: What is the advice or or some some ideas, some thoughts that could you could give to them when they start applying to the first job?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: My advice, not so much a piece of advice, it's more like be who you are and and thrive in this environment.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's required for you is a new trend.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really, really good development.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I also notice is that there's a lot more ask, for example, for coaching and for mentoring and guiding in the workplace than there used to be.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that also comes into the equation of work-life balance and how am I successful in the workplace?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is people really looking into their personal development from the professional side, but also from the personal side and keep doing that?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's a really great development in our in our day and age.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's interesting.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: You can also see the flip side of it, because as you just said, we have young people that have very clear ideas of what they want.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: They understand what they want to get out of work and want the balances and uh the mission and so on.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: But then when they get, you know, when they stumble across corporates, that's a big bureaucratic machine, they're a bit like slow to move.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: I guess the mentor in demand also, because some people I think are a bit lost.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think I'm a bit too negative?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Probably, and this is an assumption, I don't know this for sure.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to ask, like the newer generations, there they might be disappointed in what they actually envisioned.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And dealing with that disappointment is something that might be harder because things have gone hopefully smoothly, and then you hit a roadblock.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And how to deal with that is a life lesson, and how to find your way in in a corporate environment like that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: That might require mentoring and requires support from HR or working through that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: That is so fascinating, and to be honest with you, I really like your perspective because compared to other guests that I had, you really come with uh with the NHR background and now with these coaches' lenses on top, which is quite that's why I might have looked surprised.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So for the people as watching this video, sometimes I might look like surprised or or like very attentive because it is actually quite interesting.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I never thought these things in this way.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been fantastic.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Learn the hard way, Daniela.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I was an HR and the new generations entered my office after six months, saying, I started six months ago, I'd like a promotion and race.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the reality, and I had to deal with that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had a lot of judgment about that, and I actually needed to change my own perspective.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I needed to like review my ideas, and I I did that through a lot of conversations, etc.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that was these were funny moments where I was like, holy canalone, what's happening?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: As a team manager for many years.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what I've been experiencing.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm in jet in a generation that uh I was expecting that as well.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it's sort of like the the length of time that a person is expected to work in a job before getting a raise or a or a promotion.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like getting shorter and shorter.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And many companies are actually now building those uh corporate titles or many more you know career bands inside organizations so that they can show that there is a bit of progress.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's fascinating.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder what in 20 years' time what is gonna be.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Also, in my jar role, have built programs like that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: It could be development programs, or it can actually be levels in a certain role to create that progress possibility, and that's fine as long as it's not window dressing to like create something that's not real, because then of course it crashes a little bit.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, just the the last question that I have for you.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you could leave the listeners with the final reflection or question to themselves, what would that be?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we I come back to authenticity, and you know that it's a bit of a mantra for me is grounding in yourself and being constantly aware of who am I and what do I really want and how do I bring myself to a conversation in the most authentic way?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: That goes a long way in getting that in return, and that takes away a lot of fear, or it can take away a lot of fear or anxiety.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Showing a bit of vulnerability in the workplace actually opens up so many opportunities.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I strongly believe that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: If people want to contact you or hear from you more, how can they reach out to you?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm on LinkedIn, Saskia van Delft Executive Coach.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have a my LinkedIn page, a business page, and I'm in the process of building a website.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I can be found on LinkedIn with my my details, my details, my phone number, and my email address.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Saskia, thank you very much for your time.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's been uh really fantastic.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.