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Transcript

‘The Points Guy’ Brian Kelly on Maximizing Travel Rewards · Masters in Business

0:02
Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.
0:07
Speaker 1: My special guest today is Brian Kelly, better known as
0:11
Speaker 1: the Points Guy. Uh. The firm now gets ten million
0:15
Speaker 1: unique visitors to their website each month. It was launched
0:18
Speaker 1: in sold to bank Rate in bank Rate was bought
0:23
Speaker 1: by Red Ventures in the firm now has over sixty employees.
0:28
Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, the Points Guy itself is over
0:30
Speaker 1: a hundred employees. Over a hundred. Wow. Well, Brian Kelly,
0:33
Speaker 1: welcome to Blue Thanks. So I'm kind of intrigued about
0:38
Speaker 1: the Points Guy site. Um, when I got a Amex
0:43
Speaker 1: Platinum card in the office, I gave up my Amex
0:47
Speaker 1: Gold card at home and ultimately wanted to replace it
0:52
Speaker 1: with something which became the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. And
0:56
Speaker 1: then I went to your site and said, turned out
0:59
Speaker 1: that that was a really good decision. Tell us a
1:01
Speaker 1: little bit about the points Guy site. Who's your audience
1:05
Speaker 1: and who you're targeting? Absolutely? Yeah, So the Points Guy
1:08
Speaker 1: I started this as a fun side thing in I
1:10
Speaker 1: used to work at Morgan Stanley. I was in HR,
1:13
Speaker 1: traveling a ton and I was just I've always been
1:16
Speaker 1: really really good at points like even going back to
1:18
Speaker 1: the nineties. But it started it's just a hobby site
1:20
Speaker 1: where I would, you know, blog about one post a
1:23
Speaker 1: day on how to use am X points or how
1:25
Speaker 1: to fly to Paris. And you know, no one really
1:28
Speaker 1: read it for about six months and months aware because
1:33
Speaker 1: then it just took off somehow, you know, it started
1:35
Speaker 1: to catch and I wrote about one deal, and you know,
1:38
Speaker 1: it really started off with consultants. I mean, you know,
1:40
Speaker 1: the consultans who are on the road four days a week.
1:42
Speaker 1: They started reading my site and sharing it like crazy.
1:45
Speaker 1: Didn't eventually make its way to a big New York
1:47
Speaker 1: Times article fairly early on. So it was April of
1:50
Speaker 1: eleven that Seth Coogel, the Frugal Traveler columnist of the
1:54
Speaker 1: New York Times. He's a very cynical person, he said,
1:57
Speaker 1: freaking flyer miles or pointless for budget travelers unless you
2:01
Speaker 1: can prove me otherwise. And it was actually sitting in
2:03
Speaker 1: my spam inbox for like two months, like cleaning out
2:07
Speaker 1: one day and I'm like, what times this is crazy.
2:10
Speaker 1: I met up with them and I said, are you crazy?
2:13
Speaker 1: I'm like, budget travelers are the number one people who
2:15
Speaker 1: should be maximizing points. I met up with them at
2:18
Speaker 1: a bar in New York for three hours. He booked
2:20
Speaker 1: a trip to Brazil that day and coach, but he
2:22
Speaker 1: saved a thousand bucks. He was blown away, and a
2:25
Speaker 1: couple of weeks later he wrote this crazy article that
2:28
Speaker 1: was like the number one travel site everyone needs to know.
2:31
Speaker 1: And I just remember sitting at my cubicope Morgan Stanley
2:33
Speaker 1: being like, oh my god, my life is going to change,
2:36
Speaker 1: you know, the New York because my site crashed with traffic.
2:39
Speaker 1: Emails were coming in and I knew all along that,
2:42
Speaker 1: you know, everyone has points and no one knows how
2:43
Speaker 1: to use them. But that was when it really got
2:46
Speaker 1: put on the map. Um, when did you come to
2:48
Speaker 1: the conclusion that hey, this is a business? Was it
2:51
Speaker 1: the Times article? Before the Times article helped propel it?
2:54
Speaker 1: It was actually before. So if I started the blogging
2:57
Speaker 1: June of it was February. A friend from college he
3:01
Speaker 1: had kept emailing me saying, Brian, Brian, you're writing about
3:04
Speaker 1: credit cards all day. You're a moron because you're linking
3:08
Speaker 1: directly to American Express dot com. And he had worked
3:11
Speaker 1: for a company called links Share, which is now Racutan.
3:14
Speaker 1: In their affiliate marketing. And he said, if you get
3:17
Speaker 1: into my program, I can get you in. You know,
3:19
Speaker 1: you can get paid two hundred dollars per credit card approval.
3:23
Speaker 1: And I remember at that time, I had like fifty
3:24
Speaker 1: thousand monthly readers, and I was like two hundred bucks.
3:28
Speaker 1: I'm like, I only need like one percent of one
3:31
Speaker 1: percent to make this thesite exactly. So he got me
3:35
Speaker 1: in in February, and uh, and it was amazing. I
3:38
Speaker 1: was just writing the same exact content, but I was
3:40
Speaker 1: just using his links instead of directly to that. And
3:43
Speaker 1: so there's like an Amazon affiliate marketing and and unbeknownst
3:49
Speaker 1: to me, credit cards are like the uh you know,
3:52
Speaker 1: the ace in affiliate marketing because it was actually more
3:56
Speaker 1: than two. Some cards were paying five, but it wasn't
4:00
Speaker 1: per click like most. They had to open account. And
4:03
Speaker 1: my readers, my readers were bankers, lawyers, and consultants who
4:06
Speaker 1: live in New York, l A, and Chicago. Talk about
4:08
Speaker 1: Taylor me. So I was joking about I was blogging
4:10
Speaker 1: on a gold mine. And you know, so I started
4:12
Speaker 1: putting those links in, and you know, because these credit
4:15
Speaker 1: cards are the best way to get points. It was
4:18
Speaker 1: so organic. No one even said a word. I mean,
4:20
Speaker 1: I put my disclosures. Hey guys, I'm gonna fill it.
4:23
Speaker 1: And then the first I got nervous that people would
4:25
Speaker 1: think I'm doing it just for money, because that's never
4:27
Speaker 1: how it started out. But my readers, who are smart
4:29
Speaker 1: people in business, were like sending me high five emails
4:32
Speaker 1: like Buddy, I sent your links to my whole family,
4:35
Speaker 1: like I want you to I want you to be successful.
4:37
Speaker 1: And that was a really cool moment when I was like,
4:40
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I can provide good content for freedom.
4:42
Speaker 1: My readers. They use my link and they're just clicking
4:46
Speaker 1: on its click here, Chase same or better offer them
4:49
Speaker 1: what they're getting anyway. So so I love the story
4:52
Speaker 1: where so now you have the affiliate marketing links running
4:56
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks or months, and then one
4:59
Speaker 1: week ends something happens, you linked to something and suddenly
5:04
Speaker 1: boom dollars over the weekend. It was crazy. Yeah, well
5:07
Speaker 1: I mean that so it was a perfect storm. That
5:10
Speaker 1: day the New York Times came out was actually the
5:12
Speaker 1: day that Chase had launched a British Airways hundred thousand
5:15
Speaker 1: point offer, and I knew that was gonna be really
5:17
Speaker 1: popular with my readers because most of the time, you know,
5:20
Speaker 1: back in the late two thousand, I mean late what
5:22
Speaker 1: do you call them the odds two um, you know,
5:28
Speaker 1: credit card bonuses were like twenty five thousand free flight,
5:31
Speaker 1: you know. And then you know, once the recession. Out
5:33
Speaker 1: of the recession, I think a lot of the credit
5:35
Speaker 1: card companies were like, you know, we really missed the
5:37
Speaker 1: boat on millennials and getting this new era of consumers,
5:41
Speaker 1: so they started raising the bonuses, and it you know,
5:45
Speaker 1: benefited my sight because I was just writing, you know,
5:47
Speaker 1: here's how you get to get the most out of
5:49
Speaker 1: British Airways miles. And the trick was not flying British
5:51
Speaker 1: Airways because they have crazy high fees on their award tickets.
5:55
Speaker 1: So I was just writing these little posts about, you know,
5:57
Speaker 1: if you want to go to Machu Picchu or Easter Island.
6:00
Speaker 1: Was amazing deals using British Airways miles back then because
6:02
Speaker 1: they were a one World partner. So these things that
6:04
Speaker 1: I had known for years, you know, the average consumer
6:07
Speaker 1: didn't realize that, wait a minute, I've got a boatload
6:10
Speaker 1: of miles and this is how I can go to
6:12
Speaker 1: Hawaii or Miami. So um, and then the new York
6:15
Speaker 1: Times article came out, which not just you know that
6:18
Speaker 1: day traffic. But I had no idea what s c
6:20
Speaker 1: O was. I knew Google like me because my site
6:22
Speaker 1: was growing month over month, But that day that you
6:25
Speaker 1: get that New York Times link, they still swing a
6:29
Speaker 1: lot of weight. Yeah, I mean, so that's why you know,
6:31
Speaker 1: we getting uh making sure using press to help you know,
6:36
Speaker 1: buoy the site. That's what There's been a lot of
6:38
Speaker 1: other bloggers in the space, none have really cracked it
6:41
Speaker 1: like I have. So it's a So let's talk about
6:45
Speaker 1: how this went from a sort of side interest to
6:48
Speaker 1: a website to a business. We were speaking earlier about
6:52
Speaker 1: your first big affiliation, branding thirty dollars over the weekend.
6:56
Speaker 1: You had to look at that and go, hey, this
6:59
Speaker 1: really is a bit. Is this what happened on Monday
7:02
Speaker 1: when you went into your day job. Well, I remember
7:04
Speaker 1: being in the shower just crunching the numbers as as
7:06
Speaker 1: my posts were going viral across the internet about this chase.
7:09
Speaker 1: You know, the clicks would update every hour, and I
7:12
Speaker 1: just you know, on a normal day, I'd have like
7:14
Speaker 1: twenty clicks on a you know, on a credit card link,
7:17
Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden, was like two thousand.
7:18
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, if this is even the
7:20
Speaker 1: tiniest conversion rate, I'm doing well. And every other day,
7:25
Speaker 1: you know, sales would load into the system and so
7:27
Speaker 1: on paper. I remember when I hit the first hundred thousand,
7:30
Speaker 1: it was like roughly within a month of getting into
7:32
Speaker 1: affiliate sales because of that New York Times piece that
7:34
Speaker 1: made it go viral and uh and I remember just thinking,
7:38
Speaker 1: on paper, I'm kind of rich, you know, like that
7:40
Speaker 1: was more than my annual salary at that point. And
7:43
Speaker 1: my parents were like, Brian, you know, I was twenty seven,
7:45
Speaker 1: I was about to get VP, and you know, human
7:47
Speaker 1: resources at Morgan Stanley that you shouldn't be well back,
7:54
Speaker 1: you know, I was. You know, that was you know,
7:56
Speaker 1: when you're in your late twenties about to get VP,
7:58
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you're it's better to take a
8:01
Speaker 1: risk than when you're young, and you could bounce back.
8:03
Speaker 1: Of course, of course now you know, not knowing what
8:05
Speaker 1: I know now, but you know, being a blog a
8:07
Speaker 1: professional blogger just wasn't really a thing inn But my
8:11
Speaker 1: parents actually loaned me money because even though in the
8:13
Speaker 1: affiliate portal, I said I had all this money coming
8:16
Speaker 1: to me, but it was on like a net ninety
8:18
Speaker 1: pay plus plus plus. It was actually months before I
8:20
Speaker 1: saw any of that money. But so you didn't use
8:22
Speaker 1: venture capital. I never used family money, friends and family.
8:25
Speaker 1: How much did you? I borrowed five thousand or ten
8:29
Speaker 1: thousand from my parents just to pay my rent. But
8:31
Speaker 1: it was already profitable up to that point, so, I
8:34
Speaker 1: mean it was from getting affiliate links. Uh. It was
8:37
Speaker 1: six months. It was that August that I made my
8:39
Speaker 1: first million. It was crazy. It just kept growing and
8:42
Speaker 1: growing and then I started hiring. So I never I
8:44
Speaker 1: owned a hundred percent of the company when I sold
8:46
Speaker 1: it to Great inelve So that worked out. Well. Is
8:49
Speaker 1: that a public figure? Can we just it's not a
8:51
Speaker 1: public figure? Um, I don't think it was ever really disclosed,
8:54
Speaker 1: but it was, you know, life changing amount of money
8:56
Speaker 1: for me at the time. Of course, they gave me
8:58
Speaker 1: a three and a half year earn out because that
9:00
Speaker 1: was twenty eight They're like, we're not going to give
9:01
Speaker 1: you everything, but um, but you stayed with him for
9:05
Speaker 1: almost a decade. Yeah, I mean I even after that
9:08
Speaker 1: three and a half years. I Uh, I renegotiated my
9:11
Speaker 1: deal to get a you know, I was a salaried employee.
9:13
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't own the points guy, but they
9:16
Speaker 1: saw how passionate I was about it um and so
9:19
Speaker 1: you are the points guy, and so I guess it helps.
9:22
Speaker 1: You know, people even when Red Ventures bought Bank great
9:24
Speaker 1: people like you know most founders, you know, when you sell,
9:26
Speaker 1: you get you know, but they take the money and run,
9:29
Speaker 1: take the money and run. But I and I just
9:31
Speaker 1: you know, signed out with Red Ventures. I'm gonna be
9:32
Speaker 1: there for years to come. I mean, I passionately love
9:35
Speaker 1: doing what we do and uh yeah, it's the coolest
9:38
Speaker 1: job in the world. Why would I give it up? So,
9:39
Speaker 1: so you started as a as a blogger, when did
9:43
Speaker 1: you hire your first employee? So my first employee was
9:46
Speaker 1: actually part time. It was my sister in law. She
9:48
Speaker 1: was a stay at home mom. She started doing email
9:51
Speaker 1: got because the emails were coming in, and I actually
9:53
Speaker 1: had a side business where I would charge people fifty
9:57
Speaker 1: bucks and I would book their award tickets for them.
9:59
Speaker 1: So you'd be able to email me and say, hey,
10:01
Speaker 1: I want to take my family to Italy four people
10:04
Speaker 1: in June, and I would say, pay me ch under
10:06
Speaker 1: bucks and I'll tell you exactly how to do it.
10:08
Speaker 1: So I had that business and then I would blog.
10:11
Speaker 1: So my my sister in law was my first part
10:13
Speaker 1: time employee. And then it was actually right after I
10:16
Speaker 1: sold the bank. Right then I was like, I gotta
10:18
Speaker 1: I gotta hire people. And now people would want to
10:20
Speaker 1: work for me, because before people were like, I'm not
10:21
Speaker 1: gonna work for some guy blogging out of his living room. Yeah. So,
10:26
Speaker 1: once I sold, you know, bank rate was a publicly
10:28
Speaker 1: traded company pretty um, you know, they had banquet dot
10:31
Speaker 1: com was a huge site, and the credit cards dot Com. So,
10:35
Speaker 1: you know, once I and that was great because I
10:37
Speaker 1: could just focus on the content and um, you know,
10:39
Speaker 1: their HR and legal and all that stuff took took
10:42
Speaker 1: away all that stuff that I really never enjoyed doing.
10:44
Speaker 1: And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense
10:46
Speaker 1: for a site that spends so much time and effort
10:49
Speaker 1: analyzing credit cards to bring in totally the ultimate credit card.
10:54
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize it at the time. I mean
10:55
Speaker 1: when they because I only had like roughly fifteen months
10:57
Speaker 1: of revenue. Granted it was all profit for the most
11:00
Speaker 1: part because I didn't really have that many expenses, but
11:03
Speaker 1: you know, to me, It was astounding that credit cards
11:05
Speaker 1: dot Com, the behemouth site, you know, um would want
11:07
Speaker 1: this little niche travel premium, you know, credit card site.
11:11
Speaker 1: But premium is a good niche. It is and and
11:14
Speaker 1: it it was. It was. It's been a wild ride since.
11:18
Speaker 1: You know, I remember when when I sold the bank
11:19
Speaker 1: rate in May, fifty thousand monthly uniques um, which is
11:24
Speaker 1: really nothing, but it was pretty pretty profitable. Um, but
11:28
Speaker 1: the real you know, but it's a platform that you
11:30
Speaker 1: could build on. It was a good and the platform
11:34
Speaker 1: kept growing year every year. But sixteen was the year
11:37
Speaker 1: we actually launched the Sapphire Reserve card with Chase. So
11:40
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about that. They reached out
11:42
Speaker 1: to you guys to say, hey, we have an idea
11:45
Speaker 1: for a new credit card to challenge AMEX. Well they
11:48
Speaker 1: didn't even in the beginning, we didn't even know what
11:49
Speaker 1: it was. Um. We had to you know, come up.
11:52
Speaker 1: You know, we had been working with Chase since the beginning,
11:54
Speaker 1: so they knew we were good partners. We had the
11:56
Speaker 1: ability to create content that resonated, especially with millennials. I mean,
12:00
Speaker 1: and to this day, you know, we have a huge audience.
12:03
Speaker 1: We now are in the UK, we we serviced all
12:05
Speaker 1: types of you know readers. We've got a whole military section,
12:08
Speaker 1: We've got our family vertical. Today we're actually launching our
12:12
Speaker 1: TPG Women vertical for women and travel small business. But
12:15
Speaker 1: but really the points guy, we can speak to millennials.
12:19
Speaker 1: We put credit cards and financial products in a way
12:22
Speaker 1: that I think successful people in general, especially millennials, can understand,
12:26
Speaker 1: like I need to get this car because I will
12:28
Speaker 1: live a better life through travel and you know, be
12:31
Speaker 1: able to to get ahead. So so yeah, they approached
12:33
Speaker 1: us in sen We were under strict NDA for months
12:36
Speaker 1: and months. So it was months until I even knew
12:38
Speaker 1: what the Sapphire Reserve was. And when I heard the product,
12:40
Speaker 1: I literally got like faint in the knees. I was like,
12:43
Speaker 1: this is gonna be huge, like monstrous, and it was.
12:49
Speaker 1: It was out of control. They literally sold out and
12:52
Speaker 1: they ran out of the medal used to make the car.
12:54
Speaker 1: So we were their launch partner, and you know, word
12:57
Speaker 1: was getting out and leaking and we uh uh they
13:00
Speaker 1: and you know we basically hell, they wanted to launch
13:03
Speaker 1: it right after Labor Day in sixteen. The words started
13:06
Speaker 1: to get out because you know, they've got all these
13:07
Speaker 1: bank branches, so they because we were partners with them,
13:10
Speaker 1: they actually announced that the Sapphire Reserve is coming. I
13:13
Speaker 1: still remember where I was in Italy on summer vacation
13:16
Speaker 1: and they actually said it's coming and the Points Guy
13:20
Speaker 1: has all the information. And on a tweet they announced
13:22
Speaker 1: the best credit card to ever hit the market in
13:25
Speaker 1: a tweet with the link to the points guy dot
13:27
Speaker 1: com and our inside scoop on so which made all
13:30
Speaker 1: of our competitors had the link to us. I mean,
13:32
Speaker 1: traffic was who needs s e O with that stuff?
13:36
Speaker 1: So that raises a really interesting question. In my wallet,
13:40
Speaker 1: I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve card and an Amex
13:43
Speaker 1: Platinum card. You do business with all these other credit
13:47
Speaker 1: card companies, did anyone say, hey, you guys are partnering
13:50
Speaker 1: with Chase. We're a little concerned about that. You know,
13:53
Speaker 1: my mom was so worried about that. She goes, You're
13:55
Speaker 1: going to be known as the Chase guy. And you know,
13:59
Speaker 1: you know, first what, second you think, okay, so are
14:01
Speaker 1: we doing too much with one partner? But I think
14:04
Speaker 1: you know, Chase came to us and said, we believe
14:06
Speaker 1: in you two. Do we We did a ton more
14:08
Speaker 1: than just blog posts, we did events. We did uh
14:10
Speaker 1: Facebook live on the day of the launch with pamcottas body,
14:14
Speaker 1: who was their head of credit cards at the time,
14:15
Speaker 1: and we were answering reader questions live on social media,
14:18
Speaker 1: which your credit card company had never done before. And
14:21
Speaker 1: I think that launch with them well, I know because
14:23
Speaker 1: since then we've launched credit cards for City, their Prestige card.
14:27
Speaker 1: You know. We've worked really a lot with Capital One
14:30
Speaker 1: last year they added all these transfer partners And I
14:33
Speaker 1: think our credibility comes from the fact that a we
14:35
Speaker 1: never recommend products we don't like period full stuff. I've
14:38
Speaker 1: turned down offers all the time. We're not doing you know,
14:41
Speaker 1: crappy little partnerships with brands, just trying to get a
14:44
Speaker 1: buck from our readers, you know. And we're mathematical. We've
14:47
Speaker 1: got a team of really smart experts where people like
14:50
Speaker 1: you you can read through the bs like you. We
14:52
Speaker 1: put it in terms of these points, you know, and
14:55
Speaker 1: and how they will actually do it um you know,
14:57
Speaker 1: how you can actually get value from it. So so yeah,
15:00
Speaker 1: so the Sapphire Reserve, it was very Chase centric. But
15:04
Speaker 1: when that offer ended, it was actually one of our
15:06
Speaker 1: worst business months ever because we had focused so much
15:08
Speaker 1: on that offer nothing else was happening, and in scraping
15:11
Speaker 1: our knees. A month after it ended, we were like,
15:13
Speaker 1: oh my god, we had our worst month in like
15:16
Speaker 1: eight years. But it was a great wake up called hey,
15:19
Speaker 1: wait a minute. And then that's when we really retrenched
15:23
Speaker 1: with Amex and City and those partnerships, so totally I mean,
15:28
Speaker 1: and and everyone wins in the end. Let's talk a
15:31
Speaker 1: little bit about how you use various media to promote
15:36
Speaker 1: the business. We talked about the New York Times, we
15:38
Speaker 1: talked about the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. Let's talk a
15:41
Speaker 1: little bit about YouTube, Instagram and TikTok. How does that
15:46
Speaker 1: impact your business, your traffic and who your audiences. So,
15:50
Speaker 1: you know, we leaned heavily into social media. You know,
15:54
Speaker 1: Twitter was actually my first I thought Facebook was going
15:57
Speaker 1: to be a you know, a one lime thing and
16:00
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to really be a big business driver,
16:02
Speaker 1: which actually ended up being the opposite, because you know,
16:05
Speaker 1: in fourteen fifteen, we were investing heavily in Facebook. We
16:10
Speaker 1: wanted to build our likes up. And even though you know,
16:12
Speaker 1: Facebook likes today don't mean anything, you know, we were
16:15
Speaker 1: the first real travel blog to get over a million likes,
16:18
Speaker 1: and that was right before Chase engaged us to help
16:21
Speaker 1: with the launch of the Sapphire Reserve. So are you
16:24
Speaker 1: tracking traffic from from those channels? Yes, so we still
16:29
Speaker 1: get a about of our traffic, uh from social media
16:35
Speaker 1: from all the different channels. It's funny you mentioned TikTok
16:38
Speaker 1: because it's one of our new platforms that were just
16:41
Speaker 1: testing around within the powers wild. You know, we we
16:43
Speaker 1: had one of our edit giants. But it's excuse very
16:46
Speaker 1: it's interesting and it's just like Snapchat. I'm a little
16:48
Speaker 1: wary because Snapchat I used to love doing but then
16:51
Speaker 1: there was no there was no follow up, you know,
16:53
Speaker 1: there's no tracking, there was you know, the campaigns are
16:56
Speaker 1: all very high funnel, like oh awareness amongst a really
16:58
Speaker 1: young group about credit I'm like, meanwhile, I can go
17:02
Speaker 1: on Facebook and target the exact people I want with
17:04
Speaker 1: the right content and serve them different experiences. But yes,
17:08
Speaker 1: we you know Facebook, you know social media marketing, Yes
17:11
Speaker 1: we actually you know, we spent a ton of money
17:14
Speaker 1: every month and getting our content in front of the
17:15
Speaker 1: right people and those people get credit cards. But a
17:18
Speaker 1: large portion of it is also just building out our
17:20
Speaker 1: brand and and we send people around the world. I
17:22
Speaker 1: did a vlog this year on YouTube. Uh I never
17:27
Speaker 1: look at the dates when I look at your videos,
17:30
Speaker 1: so I really enjoy the Air Emirates experience you did. Um.
17:35
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to fly that some years ago.
17:37
Speaker 1: Air India is another one that I thought was was spectacular.
17:41
Speaker 1: What what vlog did you do this year that really
17:44
Speaker 1: stands out? So we so it's called being the points guy.
17:46
Speaker 1: We I went to Israel for the first time and
17:49
Speaker 1: it was amazing. So we flew United's new seven seven.
17:54
Speaker 1: It's great, great way to fly. Um. They actually fly
17:56
Speaker 1: from New York to San Francisco, which is awesome, and
18:00
Speaker 1: I flew l L back and l AL has a
18:03
Speaker 1: sketchy history as an airline. It's a security so their
18:09
Speaker 1: new plane. They have seven eight sevens as well, which
18:11
Speaker 1: are really nice and get great reviews. But I loved,
18:15
Speaker 1: you know, the seven forty seven, the Queen of the Sky.
18:17
Speaker 1: So I flew one of their last seven forty seven
18:19
Speaker 1: and this thing was like flying in the eighties. I
18:21
Speaker 1: mean they were astrays in the seats and uh so
18:24
Speaker 1: that screens, no, no, no screens. Uh it was and
18:29
Speaker 1: the food for some reason. I think I was in
18:31
Speaker 1: first class, and I think the food. The food was rancid.
18:33
Speaker 1: I mean I I'll eat anything on a plane, I
18:35
Speaker 1: mean even an economy. This food was truly bad. So
18:38
Speaker 1: we my friend who's a comedian, we filmed the vlog episode,
18:42
Speaker 1: you know, flying from from Tel Aviv to JFK on
18:45
Speaker 1: the seven forty seven, and it actually went viral and
18:48
Speaker 1: it actually made the news in Israel. I kept getting
18:50
Speaker 1: all these Google alerts for like weeks later that popular
18:54
Speaker 1: travel blogger flies, you know, Israel's flag carrier, and it's
18:57
Speaker 1: a hot mess. You know, Like, but what what else
19:00
Speaker 1: stands out to you amongst airlines? So the other day
19:04
Speaker 1: you mentioned Norway. Norwegian Airlines, which I've flown business class
19:08
Speaker 1: and it's amazing for the for what you get for
19:11
Speaker 1: the price, but the food is town The food is terrible. Yeah,
19:14
Speaker 1: I mean Norwegians seven. You get a big, big, comfy reclients.
19:17
Speaker 1: This is not quite a flatbed technically premium. It's one
19:21
Speaker 1: of the best premium economies out there. Oh, it's much bigger. Yeah.
19:25
Speaker 1: The pricing is fantastic too, I mean last minute seven
19:28
Speaker 1: bucks more Europe round round trip under a thousand dollars
19:31
Speaker 1: to pass and you know, and especially when you're going
19:34
Speaker 1: to Europe, it's just under six hours these days, you
19:36
Speaker 1: know to spend you know, well from New Year JFK
19:39
Speaker 1: to Paris is just about eight hours if you include
19:42
Speaker 1: coming home time on the ground in London, I've done
19:47
Speaker 1: under six hours. Yeah, but anyway, so so but yes,
19:51
Speaker 1: so Norwegian Premium is a great product. But I'm actually
19:54
Speaker 1: about to uh et the Middle Eastern carriers are still so.
19:57
Speaker 1: Qatar Airlines their q Sweets business classes top notch. Those
20:02
Speaker 1: are like literally private rooms. It's it's crazy. And do
20:07
Speaker 1: they are they the ones with this the shower you
20:09
Speaker 1: can lay down in? Was that Emirates? So there's two
20:11
Speaker 1: airlines with showers commercially, it's Emirates. Uh and then Etti
20:16
Speaker 1: had so Etty Had not only has the showers, they
20:18
Speaker 1: have what's called the residents. And I flew it. It
20:20
Speaker 1: was my first vlog that I was their first passenger
20:25
Speaker 1: to fly JFK to Abu Dhabi. It was thirty three
20:27
Speaker 1: thou dollars of course zero because I expensed it to
20:31
Speaker 1: bankreat at the time. But you didn't you paid actually cash,
20:34
Speaker 1: you didn't use points, no, because with the residents, it
20:36
Speaker 1: would be millions and millions of points. So we paid cash,
20:38
Speaker 1: I earned points, expensed it to the parent company, UM
20:42
Speaker 1: and it must have been thrilled. But you know what
20:44
Speaker 1: the video got millions of people still come up to
20:47
Speaker 1: me today. So back to the whole point about how
20:48
Speaker 1: we use social media. Yes, we do it for conversions,
20:51
Speaker 1: but also the brand awareness that as we speak right now,
20:54
Speaker 1: people are viewing our videos being like, wow, I want
20:56
Speaker 1: to fly Emirates or this airline. They come to this
21:00
Speaker 1: I they get hooked in and so we're now you know,
21:03
Speaker 1: our our parent company, read Ventures is all about analytics
21:06
Speaker 1: and UM using data science to serve different experiences to people.
21:10
Speaker 1: So UM, yes we get a bunch of millions of
21:12
Speaker 1: visitors to the website, but we are now using social media, podcasts,
21:17
Speaker 1: um to reach all different audiences that come back to
21:20
Speaker 1: the site. And the big thing will be the app.
21:23
Speaker 1: The app. You're gonna launch a points guy app. So
21:25
Speaker 1: we have if you could, if you could make people's
21:29
Speaker 1: life easier showing them what their points could do. Well,
21:34
Speaker 1: just you wait that the home screen of the app
21:35
Speaker 1: is going to be your net worth and points really
21:38
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna be able to set trip goals.
21:40
Speaker 1: We're gonna be able to get live award availability to
21:42
Speaker 1: tell you, hey, you've got a mix points and Delta miles,
21:46
Speaker 1: you should actually use these points on these days. You're
21:49
Speaker 1: gonna pushing your target audience. I can have Delta. I
21:53
Speaker 1: have a hundred and twenty five thou Delta points. I
21:55
Speaker 1: have six hundred thousand Chase Reserve points. UM, I have
21:59
Speaker 1: the office am X points, which we then recycle into
22:03
Speaker 1: office travel. But it's always you know, when you travel
22:06
Speaker 1: for work, it's always either economy or comfort. Plus you're
22:10
Speaker 1: try and be responsible, um, when you're traveling for work,
22:14
Speaker 1: when you travel on your own. All right, you could
22:16
Speaker 1: you could indulge a little bit that said, it's all
22:21
Speaker 1: over the place, I don't know how to best this
22:23
Speaker 1: use that this app is gonna track your points. It's
22:26
Speaker 1: gonna we'll be able to instantly. We're building these algorithms
22:28
Speaker 1: and tools that look at what you're spending in the
22:31
Speaker 1: different categories, and then we'll actually slap your wrists and say, Barry,
22:34
Speaker 1: you should have been using this card for that purchase,
22:36
Speaker 1: because you actually would have gotten a ton more value
22:38
Speaker 1: back based on where you want to use your points.
22:40
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be I already have, I have the
22:44
Speaker 1: it's gonna be coming out in early but it's going
22:46
Speaker 1: to change the game because as of today, it's too confused.
22:49
Speaker 1: I mean, it is very confusing. It's challenging, and what
22:52
Speaker 1: ends up happening is you just end up accumulate what
22:55
Speaker 1: you describe as points hoarders. Um you. Now, I will
23:00
Speaker 1: use my Chase points for what for what I call
23:03
Speaker 1: um marriage counseling purchases. Meaning when our Weber grill that
23:08
Speaker 1: was twelve years old caught fire and I decided I
23:11
Speaker 1: want the big four burner grill that was twelve hundred
23:14
Speaker 1: bucks on sale at Amazon, delivered and installed, my wife's
23:20
Speaker 1: had exploded. She's like, just go replace the grill you
23:23
Speaker 1: bought for five hundred dollars twelve years ago. Well, twelve
23:26
Speaker 1: years ago is five hundred dollars. Now it's seven hundred
23:28
Speaker 1: dollars and I want the bigger one, and she's like,
23:31
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend thousand dollars on it. You're
23:33
Speaker 1: giving me a little bit of anxiety here though, because
23:35
Speaker 1: using Chase points for like merchandise, like there are all
23:38
Speaker 1: these different currencies like if you want, if you want
23:40
Speaker 1: to buy grills and merchandise and gift cards, there are
23:43
Speaker 1: cards for that, you know City double Cash that gives
23:46
Speaker 1: you two percent back. But to use those chase points
23:49
Speaker 1: where you're getting less than a center lesson value when
23:51
Speaker 1: you're three exit, can I tell you I'm dying a
23:55
Speaker 1: little bit. And it's a marriage. So whatever it costs,
23:59
Speaker 1: I wanted my damn grill. But but we'll talk more
24:01
Speaker 1: about that in a bit. So you get to travel
24:05
Speaker 1: a lot for work, and not just you know, the
24:08
Speaker 1: red Eye to Houston, but really fun places on on
24:13
Speaker 1: fun airlines. I have a whole bunch of questions. Let's
24:16
Speaker 1: start with what's your favorite place you've been to this year?
24:20
Speaker 1: This year, I um really enjoyed going to Well does
24:27
Speaker 1: it have to be a new place because Cape Town,
24:30
Speaker 1: South Africa. Really I've been seven times South. I saw
24:33
Speaker 1: the boxing Grandma's video. Yeah, that was really cool. We
24:36
Speaker 1: did that a couple of years ago. Those grannies don't
24:38
Speaker 1: fool around. I was blown away. But I love South Africa.
24:43
Speaker 1: We we do a ton of charity work. A lot
24:45
Speaker 1: of my travel is for the organizations we support, and
24:49
Speaker 1: but South Africa is just so beautiful. If you've never
24:52
Speaker 1: been Nevine Country, it's a it's a long fight. But
24:57
Speaker 1: starting in December of twenty nine, Team we Are United
25:01
Speaker 1: Airlines is gonna start finding Newark Cape Town NonStop. You
25:06
Speaker 1: know what I used to hate Newark. I live downtown Newark.
25:09
Speaker 1: I can get to in twenty minutes. JFK took me
25:11
Speaker 1: two hours the other day. And Newark now has clear
25:15
Speaker 1: The terminals are nice. I would I would push you
25:17
Speaker 1: to give it a give it a second thought. I
25:19
Speaker 1: have been giving away my clear you know, you get
25:22
Speaker 1: to five and I've been giving it to people, and
25:24
Speaker 1: you get a note when someone signs up. I am
25:27
Speaker 1: shocked that everybody isn't using that, although I was shocked
25:30
Speaker 1: that everybody wasn't using TSA PreCheck, And you still go
25:33
Speaker 1: to airports in the pre check lane, I mean empty
25:36
Speaker 1: two minutes max most of the time, and I see
25:38
Speaker 1: people waiting hours in line and normally how do people
25:41
Speaker 1: not value their time? Five years of pre check for
25:43
Speaker 1: eighty five dollars, it's the greatest deal in travel. So
25:47
Speaker 1: let's let's talk a bit. So you like Cape Town
25:49
Speaker 1: this year? What what's one of the most memorable trips
25:52
Speaker 1: you've taken well. I love my parents are just retired.
25:55
Speaker 1: They you know, my parents are like my best friends.
25:58
Speaker 1: I took them to Ghana. Um I do a good
26:02
Speaker 1: amount of charity work with phjam there. So we went
26:04
Speaker 1: to Ghana and then I took him to Tanzania on
26:07
Speaker 1: a Serengetti safari and we you know the image people
26:11
Speaker 1: people come back and talk about it for the most
26:13
Speaker 1: Safari if you've I mean, I love animals and mother nature.
26:17
Speaker 1: Safari is just spectacular. You you really only need three
26:20
Speaker 1: days of safari because you go out and you know,
26:22
Speaker 1: if you go in a real African safari, you're out
26:24
Speaker 1: for like five hours in the morning, five hours and
26:26
Speaker 1: they have a lot. By the end of like two
26:27
Speaker 1: to three days, you know you've seen it all. But
26:31
Speaker 1: that's why I like South Africa because you can do
26:32
Speaker 1: Cape Town and the stunning coastlines and the animals and
26:36
Speaker 1: wine country and safari. So that to me is like
26:38
Speaker 1: the ultimate trip. So so you're effectively a professional traveler.
26:43
Speaker 1: Tell us about some of your packing secrets and what
26:46
Speaker 1: gadgets do you like to travel? Yeah, I really so.
26:48
Speaker 1: I do the the stack in full method, which so
26:51
Speaker 1: you're not you don't roll don't roll. Nope, So I
26:53
Speaker 1: will take and I start with the heaviest item first,
26:55
Speaker 1: I'll take like a blaze. I'll do my two blazers,
26:58
Speaker 1: and then I'll do long sleeve shirts and then some
26:59
Speaker 1: T shirts. Fold the arms on and then fold them
27:04
Speaker 1: in half, smooth it out. I tell you what I
27:06
Speaker 1: can't tell you never know. I can't tell you the
27:08
Speaker 1: last time I've used a hotel, and the same thing
27:12
Speaker 1: with the hotel, I stack all the pants folded in half,
27:16
Speaker 1: folded in half again. You know if and the more
27:18
Speaker 1: you have, the less wrinkled it will be. If you've
27:20
Speaker 1: got two pants, they'll wrinkle. So and you have videos
27:23
Speaker 1: about this. Yes, So let's talk about gadgets. What what
27:25
Speaker 1: do you travel with? I see you also have the
27:28
Speaker 1: eleven Yes, I always have the best iPhone with the
27:31
Speaker 1: most storage. Um, I actually have this. They now have
27:33
Speaker 1: the dual sims, so I have a Google five card.
27:36
Speaker 1: Swap it out. So if I'm in some you know,
27:38
Speaker 1: because I've Verizon International, but sometimes they'll limit your data,
27:41
Speaker 1: so I always haven't hit that yet. It depends in
27:44
Speaker 1: certain areas and now they allow you to up it
27:46
Speaker 1: more or whatever. It's very cheap, so now in the
27:50
Speaker 1: United States, all the wireless services suck. Verizon Wireless is
27:55
Speaker 1: the least dirty shirt in the hampers. The way I
27:58
Speaker 1: describe it in general, I think, you know, T Mobile
28:00
Speaker 1: is great with their certain plans, but it's slow. I'm
28:03
Speaker 1: you know, I need some quick I'll pay whatever it
28:05
Speaker 1: takes to fast WiFi, so I'm a junkie I must have.
28:07
Speaker 1: The Google five is also really good too, as as
28:10
Speaker 1: the backup so Google fire works around the world. I
28:12
Speaker 1: forget what's it's not very expensive to have. You know,
28:16
Speaker 1: the iPhone that has dual SIMS so and then you
28:18
Speaker 1: can also click to SIM cards in that so you
28:22
Speaker 1: can flip back and forth. Do you land in a
28:24
Speaker 1: certain cards? You tell me? Yeah? What else you have?
28:26
Speaker 1: You travel with the duel SIM iPhone? I always have,
28:30
Speaker 1: you know, I've got my MacBook Air and always bring
28:33
Speaker 1: my own TV shows and movies on planes because you can.
28:36
Speaker 1: I tell you, I'm I'm so glad you say that
28:38
Speaker 1: I got the biggest, baddest iPad because I how often
28:43
Speaker 1: you stuck on a six hour flight when either you're
28:45
Speaker 1: halfway in the movie and it craps out or the
28:48
Speaker 1: whole for everyone else on the plane thirty minutes and
28:52
Speaker 1: like it's a two hour flight. So basically between between
28:57
Speaker 1: Netflix download and Dish anywhere, always have ours. That's a
29:02
Speaker 1: big thing with travel, control your own destiny. Same thing
29:04
Speaker 1: with noise canceling headphones. Yes, there will always be babies.
29:07
Speaker 1: Babies exist, They're not going anywhere people, And guess what,
29:10
Speaker 1: we all were crying babies once. So get your own
29:12
Speaker 1: bows headphones, you know, get get ones that you know,
29:15
Speaker 1: and of course sometimes you can still hear through the
29:17
Speaker 1: bow's headphone. But even then, I tell you it's really
29:19
Speaker 1: not bad. We had we had a babies behind us
29:22
Speaker 1: to and from Chicago for Thanksgiving, and um you pop
29:26
Speaker 1: in the headphones and everything in life, it's just your mindset.
29:29
Speaker 1: You know, if you walk into the airport aggrieved and mad,
29:32
Speaker 1: guess what your travel experience is gonna suck? Like just
29:35
Speaker 1: at you, I am so aren't you always angry and agreed?
29:39
Speaker 1: That part of our mindset, you know, I think in
29:41
Speaker 1: traveling and just being able to see the world and
29:43
Speaker 1: seeing how most people live, even a bad flight, you know,
29:46
Speaker 1: only one percent of the world will ever be on
29:48
Speaker 1: a plane or some crazy statistics like that, So you
29:50
Speaker 1: got to learn to roll with it. Go roll with it.
29:52
Speaker 1: Even when the in flight wifi's out. I know, I
29:54
Speaker 1: get all mad, but you know, sometimes I'll sit there.
29:56
Speaker 1: I just started doing meditations on plane. Planes are a
29:59
Speaker 1: great place to medic putting your headphones on. I do
30:01
Speaker 1: these guided meditations. That insight timer is the one that
30:05
Speaker 1: I have a friend who likes that one also and
30:07
Speaker 1: another friend who likes clean is a great time to
30:10
Speaker 1: meditate because you're sitting up right usually. Um, there's a
30:14
Speaker 1: lot of outside distractions that you can get. If that ball,
30:17
Speaker 1: if that derails you, it's a little bit of that's
30:20
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. So now let's play. Tell me what's
30:23
Speaker 1: wrong with my UM credit cards? And UM, I don't
30:28
Speaker 1: call this is what we call a wallet audit, that's right.
30:31
Speaker 1: So I I have my iPhone case, which is my
30:35
Speaker 1: new that's right, that's right, instead of a full blown wallet.
30:40
Speaker 1: So I'm showing you will pretend this is my Chase
30:43
Speaker 1: Sapphire Reserve home. Um, because I just the only problem
30:47
Speaker 1: with the iPhone wallets is you have three slots and
30:50
Speaker 1: I have a lot more jumped. So these are my
30:53
Speaker 1: two main credit cards. Memorize that number. UM, so I
30:58
Speaker 1: got the fire reserve of and the Business Gold Card,
31:02
Speaker 1: Business Platinum, this Business platinfum. Oh my god, I'm like that.
31:04
Speaker 1: And I got the Platinum specifically because if you travel
31:09
Speaker 1: domestically not first class, that will get me into most lounges. Yes. Yeah,
31:14
Speaker 1: so the Platinum is the best card and the Business
31:16
Speaker 1: Platinum actually last yeart Our TPG awards one best business
31:19
Speaker 1: credit card. This card is good to any purchase over
31:22
Speaker 1: fifty or five thousand dollars. You get a fifty percent
31:24
Speaker 1: bonus that either UM and the Business Platinum gives you
31:28
Speaker 1: thirty five. So if you want to buy a thousand
31:31
Speaker 1: dollar flight Amex and most cards, it's a hundred thousand points.
31:34
Speaker 1: The Business Platinum gives you thirty five percent back, so
31:36
Speaker 1: it's only sixty five thousand points. Essentially, when you when
31:40
Speaker 1: you book through a flight through AMEX, are you're getting
31:42
Speaker 1: the same prices and a few get directly. Yeah, you
31:44
Speaker 1: mostly get the same prices once in a while. Actually
31:46
Speaker 1: a lot of times AMEX has cheaper prices and more
31:49
Speaker 1: flexible fares. Yeah, we book all of our travel at
31:51
Speaker 1: the points got through Amicx Travel. They have special especially
31:55
Speaker 1: with American Airlines and some others. They've got mostly Delta
31:58
Speaker 1: and a little bit of Jet. Pil is the other
32:00
Speaker 1: airline to Jeff blue Man, and even Jeff, I'm six seven,
32:04
Speaker 1: so even flying jeflue regular flu into coast to recave
32:07
Speaker 1: Jeff blue and I have to tell you Delta used
32:09
Speaker 1: to be twenty years ago. Delta was no fun. Yeah,
32:13
Speaker 1: don't they give my vote for the most improved airline
32:16
Speaker 1: the one they are consistently. I don't normally blow kisses
32:21
Speaker 1: to airlines. So so this is what I like about
32:24
Speaker 1: your strategy. So you've got the Sapphire Reserve, which is
32:27
Speaker 1: great for points that three x on travel and dining.
32:30
Speaker 1: So that's what you put all your travel and dining
32:31
Speaker 1: on the Sapphire Reserve. I mean yeah, because that's three
32:35
Speaker 1: x and that travel also includes tolls, parking, subways. It's
32:38
Speaker 1: a really broad travel plus no currency fee over on either,
32:43
Speaker 1: no foreign transaction fee, So yeah, you're good. The one
32:45
Speaker 1: area where I might recommend is this. This is like
32:48
Speaker 1: an advance. You could get a Chase or Freedom Unlimited
32:51
Speaker 1: card which is no annual fee, and that card gives
32:54
Speaker 1: one and a half points on everything you spend. So
32:57
Speaker 1: both of these cards only give you one point per dollar.
33:00
Speaker 1: So this is this is how you pair up to
33:02
Speaker 1: a power combo. So if you got the free Chase
33:04
Speaker 1: Freedom Unlimited, you would use that for for every day spend,
33:08
Speaker 1: you'd be earning one point five points, you'd be earning more,
33:12
Speaker 1: and then on travel and dining is what you put
33:15
Speaker 1: on your reserve and you can combine those points, so
33:18
Speaker 1: we call it um. So you just cherry picking where
33:21
Speaker 1: to spend. And this is what the tv G app
33:24
Speaker 1: is gonna help people is put you know, every day spend,
33:26
Speaker 1: like if you're gonna go to a store and buy
33:28
Speaker 1: a sweater, go to the supermarket, which which caused Supermarket.
33:31
Speaker 1: There are some cards that give pretty pretty good spend,
33:34
Speaker 1: but in general, I think you've got your AMEX for
33:37
Speaker 1: the perks, you've got the reserve for the points, and
33:40
Speaker 1: then if you've got like a Freedom Unlimited for every
33:43
Speaker 1: day spence, you're earning that one and a half points
33:45
Speaker 1: per dollar. That's a pretty big difference. And it's free,
33:47
Speaker 1: no annual fee card. How do you argue with that?
33:50
Speaker 1: It's a no brainer. So so I also noticed on
33:52
Speaker 1: your site you mentions I don't remember which card it was,
33:56
Speaker 1: but they're really good for hotels. So I normally will
34:00
Speaker 1: used the Sapphire Reserve for a hotel, especially if I'm
34:03
Speaker 1: going to You mentioned the Grand Cayman trip. We're in
34:06
Speaker 1: the Grand cam In a couple of times. Really enjoy
34:09
Speaker 1: enjoy that um anytime every February of March, you have
34:13
Speaker 1: to get to the Caribbean, get out of New York weather.
34:15
Speaker 1: What card do you use to I mean, so I used.
34:19
Speaker 1: So it's it's sad though, because so Capital one Ventures
34:22
Speaker 1: is an awesome all around card because they team up
34:25
Speaker 1: with Hotels dot Com. So Hotels dot Com is a
34:27
Speaker 1: pretty cool program, and that if you're not loyal to
34:29
Speaker 1: want any one chain, like getting low level hotel Elite
34:32
Speaker 1: settus isn't really that verty Hotels dot Com is great,
34:35
Speaker 1: and that it gives you one free night for every
34:37
Speaker 1: ten so they take the price of your the ten
34:39
Speaker 1: nights that you stayed and they give you the average
34:41
Speaker 1: price non consecutive trips, any multiple trips, so that you're
34:45
Speaker 1: basical getting ten percent back through the Hotels dot Com program.
34:47
Speaker 1: It's a solid return. With the Capital one Venture card,
34:51
Speaker 1: they give you a ten points per dollar on all
34:53
Speaker 1: Hotels dot Com, so that's another ten percent, so you're
34:56
Speaker 1: basically getting back on hotels and this is pretty much
34:59
Speaker 1: any hotel in the world. So. Um the sad thing
35:02
Speaker 1: about that that that partnership ends in January. Um, so
35:07
Speaker 1: Capital one Venture and Hotels dot Com has been my
35:10
Speaker 1: go to. The partnership ends in January. Wait, this is
35:13
Speaker 1: this is done. This is pretty much and they may
35:16
Speaker 1: extend it. I haven't heard yet, but that has been
35:18
Speaker 1: to go to. The other card I'll say is if
35:20
Speaker 1: you're actually know what City Prestige used to be the
35:23
Speaker 1: card for. They give you fourth night free and they
35:26
Speaker 1: just fourth night free hotel in the world. Over the years,
35:30
Speaker 1: I've gotten thousands and thousands. Did they still do that? They?
35:33
Speaker 1: You know, City has been pulling back a lot of
35:35
Speaker 1: the perks and so now they limited to two a
35:37
Speaker 1: year and the rates are not as low as they
35:40
Speaker 1: watered it down. That's too. Now that raises another question.
35:44
Speaker 1: People have been saying that people who I normally think
35:48
Speaker 1: of as astute travelers and points people that it's gotten
35:53
Speaker 1: much harder of late Chase Sapphire Reserve change the landscape
35:58
Speaker 1: for everybody, and some people will decided. Some companies decided
36:01
Speaker 1: to compete. Another companies said no, We're gonna make it
36:03
Speaker 1: more difficult. Well, I think all of them. I think so.
36:07
Speaker 1: My contrarian view to that is that things are actually
36:09
Speaker 1: way better than they've ever been because there are more
36:11
Speaker 1: wastearing credit cards today. You know, even the Amex Gold
36:14
Speaker 1: now offers four X on dining. They one up the
36:17
Speaker 1: Sapphire Reserve, so the Amex Gold is four X on
36:19
Speaker 1: dining and in several other categories. There's actually so many
36:23
Speaker 1: categories to earn. You just got to pick and choose,
36:25
Speaker 1: and choose the ones that you know give you the
36:27
Speaker 1: most value. Back now on the flip side, because there's
36:30
Speaker 1: so many miles in the ecosystem, you know, the airlines
36:33
Speaker 1: have been raising the amount of miles needed for flight.
36:35
Speaker 1: But considering you can still get eight hundred thousand points
36:38
Speaker 1: for sign up bonuses, then you're earning two, three, four, five,
36:40
Speaker 1: ten X on spend. The smart points maximizers are still
36:45
Speaker 1: coming out ahead. You just have to put the work
36:47
Speaker 1: in and you stick around a little bit. I have
36:49
Speaker 1: a ton of lush. Absolutely. We have been speaking with
36:52
Speaker 1: Brian Kelly, better known as the Points Guy. If you
36:55
Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation, we'll be shut and come back for
36:57
Speaker 1: the podcast extras. Will you keep the tape rolling and
37:00
Speaker 1: continue discussing all things travel. We love your comments, feedback
37:04
Speaker 1: in suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at
37:08
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. Check out my weekly column on Bloomberg
37:12
Speaker 1: dot com. Follow me on Twitter at Rid Halts. I'm
37:15
Speaker 1: Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.
37:21
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, Brian. Thank you so much for
37:24
Speaker 1: doing this. I don't I don't know what inspired me
37:27
Speaker 1: to reach out to you guys, but I'm a fan
37:30
Speaker 1: of the site. I really like what you're doing. Um.
37:34
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier about the YouTube stuff. I love
37:38
Speaker 1: the passenger shaming videos. They're so good. It's if you
37:43
Speaker 1: fly regularly. And I don't fly nearly as much as
37:46
Speaker 1: you do, but I fly enough. The behavior of people
37:49
Speaker 1: on airplanes, I mean it used to be bad on
37:52
Speaker 1: the commuter rail lines. People have kinda settled into a routine.
37:57
Speaker 1: But I don't think people fly enough to your stand
38:01
Speaker 1: um or we're reared by actual adult humans to understand that.
38:06
Speaker 1: Don't take off your shoes and socks and start clipping
38:09
Speaker 1: your toenails on the plane and you wegs your foot
38:12
Speaker 1: in between a seat and kind of creep around. How
38:14
Speaker 1: do you not just pull out a machete and chop
38:17
Speaker 1: that guy's foot off. It's it's imagine having a barefoot comprise.
38:21
Speaker 1: There's not more of that on on planes, you know,
38:24
Speaker 1: like all out assaults. I get I get bent out
38:27
Speaker 1: of shape when people don't think and are inefficient. So
38:31
Speaker 1: leaving the leaving the plane, we we got to we
38:35
Speaker 1: got to um LaGuardia early. There was a gate by
38:38
Speaker 1: some miracle ready for us in the new Delta D terminal,
38:42
Speaker 1: so it was all good. There's a couple I don't
38:45
Speaker 1: know why. She's sitting in ten D and she's in
38:50
Speaker 1: twelve B and they're having a conversation like that was crazy.
38:54
Speaker 1: When it's time to get off the plane, he decides
38:56
Speaker 1: he has to organize his Sunday New York Times. This
39:00
Speaker 1: I was like an arterial plaque and the entire plane
39:04
Speaker 1: is blocked up behind him, and I wanted to pull
39:07
Speaker 1: out the phone and videotape him, but I was like,
39:10
Speaker 1: I gotta roll with it. You gotta be Yeah, that's true,
39:12
Speaker 1: you can get upset by it, but I think in general,
39:15
Speaker 1: you just gotta let it, let it go. Some of
39:17
Speaker 1: the behavior is a little over the top. I love
39:21
Speaker 1: this little segment about the um stewardess call button, the
39:26
Speaker 1: things people use that for. Well, I've looked a little
39:28
Speaker 1: bit bad because I've been in first class before, and
39:30
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the flight attendants go, M I A,
39:32
Speaker 1: and You're right, come on, and a lot of times
39:34
Speaker 1: I do pay for my ticket and I'm like, okay,
39:36
Speaker 1: I kind of want a cocktail. I had no idea.
39:38
Speaker 1: And then and then well, Don Cathleen's like, never used
39:41
Speaker 1: the overhead for cocktails. I'm like, really you can. If
39:45
Speaker 1: you pay full boat, you could use that for cocktails.
39:48
Speaker 1: What you can't do is push the button and ask
39:51
Speaker 1: the stewardess to have the plane fly to lower altitude
39:55
Speaker 1: so you could get a picture of the Grand Canyon.
39:57
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming all the other examples stuff from life.
40:00
Speaker 1: She has stories, she espe she flew on a regional carrier.
40:03
Speaker 1: She has stories for days. But uh, it kind of
40:06
Speaker 1: reminds me. I flew with Madonna once and she we're
40:10
Speaker 1: delayed leaving JFK and the pilot comes out I'm so
40:12
Speaker 1: sorry it's raining, and she just goes step on it.
40:15
Speaker 1: While we're in the air. I need to make up
40:17
Speaker 1: time and the pilot was like okay. I was like,
40:20
Speaker 1: so really yeah, it was like I think she was
40:23
Speaker 1: kind of joking. Okay. I also, here's some one tip
40:26
Speaker 1: you should never do. I took my sleeping but this
40:28
Speaker 1: is my rookie days. This is like, you never take
40:30
Speaker 1: the pill. And I partner to do the same thing
40:33
Speaker 1: in a hilarious series of disasters. I took my I
40:36
Speaker 1: took it my pill, and then of course I'm putting
40:38
Speaker 1: my overhead bag and I'm starting to get woozy and
40:40
Speaker 1: I turned around and it's freaking Madonna boarding the plane.
40:43
Speaker 1: So then I'm trying to stay awake. We're delayed on
40:45
Speaker 1: the tarmac. She's doing all these antics. I'm like, why
40:47
Speaker 1: did I take this pill? And then I woke up
40:49
Speaker 1: the next morning like did that happen? Don't flying private
40:53
Speaker 1: well because of a lot of celebrities. Now most celebrities
40:56
Speaker 1: are now flying commercial because of the you know environment,
40:59
Speaker 1: and you can't be crusader for all right. I see
41:03
Speaker 1: tons of a list celebrities, royals, people, you know, there's
41:07
Speaker 1: people watching on planes. Wow, So I had I had
41:10
Speaker 1: the greatest experience yesterday with the pilot. I can't I
41:14
Speaker 1: don't ever recall seeing this. So there's all this weather
41:17
Speaker 1: going on Thanksgiving weekend, most of it to the west,
41:20
Speaker 1: but there's gonna be some potential issues on the flight back.
41:24
Speaker 1: He comes out and makes an announcement in the waiting
41:27
Speaker 1: area before people board. Hey, just want to let you
41:30
Speaker 1: know we're gonna hit a bunch of weather. The first
41:32
Speaker 1: half hour will be fine, but it will be bumpy
41:34
Speaker 1: and problematic for the second half. We'll do our best
41:38
Speaker 1: to work our way around the weather and get you
41:40
Speaker 1: there smoothly and safely. And and it was just like, wow,
41:45
Speaker 1: that's such a great and throughout the throughout the flight,
41:50
Speaker 1: like they're not great about communicating what really is going on.
41:54
Speaker 1: It always feels like they're reading a script like this guy, like, Wow,
41:58
Speaker 1: what approach. I've had pilots like that. I love that
42:00
Speaker 1: preflight brief, like some of them really. I mean, I
42:04
Speaker 1: think most pilots enjoy their job. I know they're all,
42:06
Speaker 1: you know, overworked and whatever, but yeah, I love Please
42:09
Speaker 1: don't tell me they're overworked overtired. You don't want to
42:11
Speaker 1: hear that, right, Although the planes can land themselves these
42:14
Speaker 1: days theoretically, so so let me get to some of
42:17
Speaker 1: the questions we missed. Um during the broadcast broadcast portion, Um,
42:24
Speaker 1: you you mentioned peace Jam. Let's so let's talk a
42:27
Speaker 1: little bit about inclusivity and giving back. Tell us what
42:31
Speaker 1: peace Jam is. So peace Jam is awesome. I you know,
42:33
Speaker 1: when when the business really took off, I really wanted
42:35
Speaker 1: to you know, there were tons of charities reaching out
42:38
Speaker 1: for right checks, right checks, and you know that's never
42:41
Speaker 1: anything you know, I wanted to get involved with an
42:42
Speaker 1: organization that was going to use travel to help change
42:45
Speaker 1: you know, the world, so to speak, even though that's
42:47
Speaker 1: a pretty wide thing. And a friend of mine said,
42:49
Speaker 1: you know, I love kids. I was almost a teach
42:51
Speaker 1: for America teacher out of college. And I think even
42:53
Speaker 1: being the Points Guy teach education or like a great
42:57
Speaker 1: joy from like watching people learn. And you know, so,
43:01
Speaker 1: um So peace Jam is fifteen of the world's best
43:04
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize winner, So the Dalai Lama Desmond to
43:07
Speaker 1: to Lama Bowie. So they are the board members and
43:10
Speaker 1: it's their organization to take their learnings and their life
43:12
Speaker 1: story to kids around the world. So it's so peace
43:15
Speaker 1: Jam itself is in a bunch of different countries. At
43:18
Speaker 1: the Points Guy, we sponsor it in Guatemala, Ghana, Liberia,
43:22
Speaker 1: South Africa and East Team War. Do you sponsor it
43:24
Speaker 1: with points? So we do. So it started out we
43:26
Speaker 1: were we were giving points to the Nobel Laureates to
43:29
Speaker 1: you know, because even the Fly Ghana is our biggest chapter.
43:31
Speaker 1: Now to fly a Nobel Laureate and their assistant, it's expensive.
43:35
Speaker 1: How do you transfer your points to a Nobel Laureate
43:38
Speaker 1: so you can transfer to my loyalty account my Amex.
43:41
Speaker 1: Let's say a Fly Delta. They fly JFK to Acra Ghana,
43:44
Speaker 1: so we would transfer my Amex to my Delta and
43:47
Speaker 1: then I can you know, and once you have points,
43:49
Speaker 1: you can book it when you want. So that's how
43:52
Speaker 1: it started. We called Points for Peace. So basically we
43:54
Speaker 1: bring these Nobel Laureates about talk about perfect branding. So
43:59
Speaker 1: we so we've able to bring these Nobel Peace Prize winners.
44:01
Speaker 1: You know, we've got six hundred kids in in gone
44:03
Speaker 1: to high school kids. They study about the laureate all
44:06
Speaker 1: year long and then we bring the lor like the
44:08
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize winner, they spend all weekend. We have
44:10
Speaker 1: this unbelievable you know, they learned how to fix the
44:13
Speaker 1: problems in their community. Start small, small actions then lead
44:16
Speaker 1: to bigger change. I mean, by the end of a week,
44:18
Speaker 1: I get chilse even thinking about it's spending time with
44:20
Speaker 1: you know, these Nobel Peace Prize winners who have helped
44:22
Speaker 1: end civil wars. Who are you know, we work with
44:25
Speaker 1: Jody Williams who and you know helped in land mines
44:28
Speaker 1: and should we bring her to kids around the world
44:30
Speaker 1: and it really empowers them to make their communities better.
44:34
Speaker 1: So that's been a I get to travel all around
44:37
Speaker 1: the world with you know, these amazing Nobel Peace Prize
44:39
Speaker 1: winners and bringing that message to kids. And let's talk
44:42
Speaker 1: a little bit about you're an out CEO and business founder.
44:45
Speaker 1: You also like to give back to the LGBT community.
44:48
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about what you do with that. Yeah, so,
44:50
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm so lucky, I'm I'm my parents
44:53
Speaker 1: love me, I've got a great partner. I'm out in
44:55
Speaker 1: business even you know, it's nervous racking when your business
44:58
Speaker 1: gets taken over? Are the are the new owners of
45:00
Speaker 1: the company going to be? You know? Allow me today,
45:03
Speaker 1: even today, I'm a Jewish white guy working in finance,
45:07
Speaker 1: so I know what it's like in New York so
45:09
Speaker 1: I know what it's like to be oppressed. Um, and
45:12
Speaker 1: I say that, you know, only half joking or fully joking.
45:16
Speaker 1: But let me say that again. It's hard to imagine
45:20
Speaker 1: in that that's still an issue in my little New York. Well,
45:26
Speaker 1: red Ventures, my parent company, they you know, all I
45:29
Speaker 1: heard was they're taking their Red Ventures is buying banquet
45:31
Speaker 1: and they're Charlotte based, and you know, in Charlotte, in
45:33
Speaker 1: North Carolina, there were some pretty nasty you know, the
45:36
Speaker 1: we had the whole HB two. Luckily I googled and
45:40
Speaker 1: and Rick Elias, who's our CEO. He's a staunch you know,
45:43
Speaker 1: you know, he's born in Puerto Rico. We do all
45:45
Speaker 1: this crazy social giving back and everything's fine. But there
45:48
Speaker 1: are a lot of friends, and I know, soul businesses
45:50
Speaker 1: they clash personally with you know, you're not a part
45:53
Speaker 1: of that inner click of boys or whatever. So so anyway,
45:56
Speaker 1: so I've been very fortunate. And I remember reading the
45:58
Speaker 1: New York Times two years go and it was about
46:01
Speaker 1: gay concentration camps in Czechnia. And I remember reading going,
46:05
Speaker 1: this is crazy. In twenty seventeen or eighteen, there cannot
46:09
Speaker 1: be concentration And in Chechnya. The leader that it was
46:13
Speaker 1: rounding up gay people and they were taking their phones
46:16
Speaker 1: and it was this they were actually in camps. Many
46:19
Speaker 1: people have been killed. So d Rainbow Railroad we we
46:22
Speaker 1: started donating our miles, so we actually booked flights for
46:25
Speaker 1: people who are in places like Czechnia. Jamaica is actually
46:28
Speaker 1: the one of the worst places in the world for
46:30
Speaker 1: LGBT people. Jamaica. I just went there was sixty minutes
46:34
Speaker 1: this year and we did a whole expose on if
46:36
Speaker 1: you're gay in Jamaica, there's a huge chance you'll get
46:38
Speaker 1: tossed in the street. They trans people are killed almost weekly.
46:42
Speaker 1: There's what that happens in the US. Also what happens everywhere.
46:46
Speaker 1: Luckily in the US, I think we've definitely made steps
46:49
Speaker 1: since the Matthew Shepard days in the nineties, but you know,
46:53
Speaker 1: uh and a lot of countries Egypt even you get
46:55
Speaker 1: kicked out at least is not especially gay friendly. So
46:58
Speaker 1: we so we used fregam flyer myse we donate our
47:00
Speaker 1: money and so we now bring Rainbow Railroad gets people
47:03
Speaker 1: asylum in countries like Canada and Argentina. So it's been
47:07
Speaker 1: really I've gotten a chance to meet last summer in Toronto.
47:10
Speaker 1: They were about thirty uh people from Czechnia that we
47:15
Speaker 1: actually have helped through our campaign. Our readers donated millions
47:18
Speaker 1: of miles and they looked me in the eyes and
47:20
Speaker 1: are like the minute that that plane took off from
47:22
Speaker 1: Moscow and I knew that I was on my way
47:23
Speaker 1: to freedom, they just started bawling. And so it's kind
47:26
Speaker 1: of cool. So my whole thing on a giving back
47:28
Speaker 1: is like the power of travel can change lives, and
47:30
Speaker 1: I know I've changed as a person. I believe the
47:32
Speaker 1: more people travel in general, you know, barriers breakdown. So uh,
47:37
Speaker 1: it's really cool to be able to uh, you know,
47:39
Speaker 1: to help others. Quite interesting. So I have to ask
47:43
Speaker 1: you a couple of more business questions because, um, everything
47:48
Speaker 1: that's going on these days with Google and Facebook, traditional
47:52
Speaker 1: web advertising as a business not so great these days.
47:55
Speaker 1: So how are you balancing that? Um? Are you more
47:59
Speaker 1: driven by advertising? Is it more affiliate? How do you
48:02
Speaker 1: how do you deal with the declining um CPMs? And
48:06
Speaker 1: just essentially the web is infinite, well funny enough, you know,
48:09
Speaker 1: when I started, I thought, oh my god, this affiliate
48:11
Speaker 1: thing seems shady, you know, And It's funny now all
48:15
Speaker 1: the major publications are going affiliate. You know, New York
48:18
Speaker 1: Times has Wirecutter and um so affiliates where it's at
48:21
Speaker 1: because if if you truly have good content that helps
48:24
Speaker 1: your reader get a product they want, you know, it's
48:27
Speaker 1: it's the perfect but balance. So our our revenue has
48:30
Speaker 1: been wildly growing over the last several years. We also
48:33
Speaker 1: want to diversify so uh so we've never sold CPMs.
48:36
Speaker 1: Really we do some small packages, but in general, I
48:39
Speaker 1: mean the bulk of our sales are affiliate and the
48:41
Speaker 1: credit card markets are strong. My biggest concern isn't as
48:44
Speaker 1: much Google and um you know, the privacy is a
48:47
Speaker 1: bigger concern, and especially as we create this app where
48:50
Speaker 1: people are going to share where they want to go
48:52
Speaker 1: and the airlines they want to fly and sharing, you know,
48:56
Speaker 1: so that to me, you know, we're getting ready for
48:58
Speaker 1: the California privacy laws are about to go into effect
49:01
Speaker 1: in January, which changes the game. So that space is
49:04
Speaker 1: really challenging, um even how you target consumers and and look,
49:08
Speaker 1: I believe we should have more privacy on the Internet.
49:11
Speaker 1: Europe is not so far off with what they're doing
49:13
Speaker 1: of all the way I mean, California is arguably more
49:16
Speaker 1: um more strict than GDPR, So it's a it's a
49:20
Speaker 1: challenging landscape, but I think what we focused on is
49:22
Speaker 1: just continuing to build out content for people that they love.
49:26
Speaker 1: Ad Blockers don't work when the advertisement is the content
49:29
Speaker 1: that people want to read. So although ad blocker extensions
49:34
Speaker 1: for Chrome and things like that, they stop working. Now
49:36
Speaker 1: it's easy enough to detect them and blur the content
49:39
Speaker 1: and say, if you want to access the content for free,
49:42
Speaker 1: you have to disable your ad blocker. So so that
49:45
Speaker 1: arms races ended. I think you guys have the right balance,
49:48
Speaker 1: the idea that if you have the right audience and
49:52
Speaker 1: the right demographic and they're consuming the content because they
49:56
Speaker 1: want to, not because you trick them into a click,
50:00
Speaker 1: that's got exactly. And the thing we've doubled down onto
50:03
Speaker 1: is community. So we've got this huge Facebook. You know,
50:05
Speaker 1: so Facebook stopped showing publishers in the news feed. Oh crap,
50:09
Speaker 1: what do you do? So what we've been doing for
50:11
Speaker 1: years we have a community. But people come to our events.
50:14
Speaker 1: Uh So on Facebook, we've got a TPG lounge it
50:17
Speaker 1: as I think over eighty thousand members. We just launched
50:19
Speaker 1: a small business community, a family community. We just launch
50:23
Speaker 1: our women's community, so now, I mean, and that's what
50:25
Speaker 1: Facebook's all about. So you just as a publisher, you've
50:27
Speaker 1: got to just keep evolving with the time. And that's
50:29
Speaker 1: that's I think My job is CEO Now it's I
50:32
Speaker 1: don't write posts as much anymore, although I am very
50:35
Speaker 1: very much uh involved in our total editorial process and
50:38
Speaker 1: pushing the team to be better and how we review
50:40
Speaker 1: flights and you know, creating higher quality content. But now
50:44
Speaker 1: it's shifting the landscape and I do I mean, our
50:47
Speaker 1: app is going to be the uh, the next generation
50:50
Speaker 1: of our company and how we'll be able to target
50:53
Speaker 1: content to people exactly for what they want. Today it's
50:56
Speaker 1: one size fits all. It can be very confusing to
50:59
Speaker 1: go to the points guy and be like, it's a lot,
51:01
Speaker 1: where do I start watch card? I just want to
51:03
Speaker 1: go here, And these tools that we're building are gonna
51:07
Speaker 1: save people time and tons of money. So I'm really excited.
51:10
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm looking forward to the app because the
51:15
Speaker 1: thing that you chastise me for before I have to
51:19
Speaker 1: ask about. So I will occasionally spend some money with
51:23
Speaker 1: Mike Chase Reserve card not on travel, spend some points
51:28
Speaker 1: on stuff, and often it's Amazon, because just drop it
51:32
Speaker 1: off on your front door. Um, you're telling me that's
51:36
Speaker 1: not the right way to do it. I'm much better
51:38
Speaker 1: off transferring those points to Delta. Well point, you can't
51:45
Speaker 1: transfer to Delta, But like Chase, points are super valuable
51:47
Speaker 1: when you transferred to United or high It or if
51:50
Speaker 1: you redeem for travel because you're getting one point five
51:52
Speaker 1: cents a point when when you say redeem for travel.
51:55
Speaker 1: So so Chase gives you two main options when it
51:57
Speaker 1: comes time to book travel. You can transfer United IT
52:00
Speaker 1: or Southwest or you know, Hiatt several other partners, or
52:04
Speaker 1: you can just use those points to buy tickets. Now
52:07
Speaker 1: with the Sapphire Reserve, what they will say is you
52:10
Speaker 1: get one point five cents a point, So a hundred
52:12
Speaker 1: thousand points is in travel. A hundred thousand points when
52:17
Speaker 1: used for gift cards is usually a thousand or less.
52:20
Speaker 1: So that's why I say where I cringe, use your
52:23
Speaker 1: Chase points for travel. And then if you truly want
52:25
Speaker 1: Amazon or merchandise, there are better cards that will give
52:29
Speaker 1: you more bang for your buck. So like a City
52:33
Speaker 1: double cash card, no annual fee, two percent back when
52:36
Speaker 1: you paid off each month. So if you spend a
52:38
Speaker 1: hundred thousand bucks on that, you're gonna get two thousand
52:40
Speaker 1: dollars to buy whatever you want. So you strike me
52:43
Speaker 1: as a guy who's got a dozen cards in as
52:45
Speaker 1: wallet probably double that. Really Yeah, well, I mean, isn't
52:48
Speaker 1: that kind of confusing to say I'm buying this? So
52:51
Speaker 1: let me figure out which? In our new app, it
52:53
Speaker 1: will literally say but you know, pay with this feature,
52:55
Speaker 1: so we'll tell you where you are. What you can say,
52:58
Speaker 1: I'm at Starbucks. We can actually say this this you know,
53:00
Speaker 1: this quarter put your Starbucks not on the sapphire, but
53:04
Speaker 1: you know, on your you know, Freedom card because Starbucks
53:07
Speaker 1: is the quarterly category. It's really really it changes. But
53:10
Speaker 1: that's the technology that we're building. And then we'll also,
53:13
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of credit cards these days will
53:14
Speaker 1: give you bonuses, you know, especially the airline cards. If
53:17
Speaker 1: you're if you're chasing elite status, you know, you spend
53:20
Speaker 1: on an American Airlines card, you'll get a bump, you know,
53:22
Speaker 1: an elite mile. So our app is going to track
53:25
Speaker 1: all of that and to make sure that not only
53:28
Speaker 1: the points, but that you're getting the maximum perks as well.
53:31
Speaker 1: You know there's master cards now that will give you
53:34
Speaker 1: five dollars off every lift ride, which most people don't
53:36
Speaker 1: even realize. That's a big that this new world master
53:42
Speaker 1: card gives you five dollars off every ride. So most
53:46
Speaker 1: it's really confusing to keep track of When will I
53:49
Speaker 1: be able to use your app to just swipe that
53:52
Speaker 1: and never have to think about it. It's coming out,
53:54
Speaker 1: and I would say, March of we're still we're in
53:56
Speaker 1: testing right now, we're breaking it. Um, it's gonna be
53:59
Speaker 1: worth a wait though, So March I'm excited about all right,
54:03
Speaker 1: So let's say we'll kill me for saying that. But
54:05
Speaker 1: early now they know when they have to all of
54:08
Speaker 1: a sudden, you just gave them a deadline, all right,
54:10
Speaker 1: so let's do our speed round. We'll we'll blow through
54:12
Speaker 1: this pretty quickly. Um. The ideas to kind of get
54:15
Speaker 1: to know a little bit more about Brian Kelly than
54:19
Speaker 1: than we know already. So so tell us what you're streaming,
54:22
Speaker 1: listening to, downloading, watching what what which got your attention
54:26
Speaker 1: these I am into the Morning show on Apple Plus
54:29
Speaker 1: the Morning I really you know, going on morning shows
54:33
Speaker 1: quite a bit. It's actually you know, I always see
54:35
Speaker 1: you know, I'm only there from my segment and leave,
54:37
Speaker 1: but you can always sense that there's like these power
54:38
Speaker 1: struggles on set, and so it's it's a fascinating watch
54:42
Speaker 1: and it's also a microcosm of like what's going on
54:44
Speaker 1: in our world today. So I think they've done a
54:45
Speaker 1: good job with that. Anything else you're you're downloading any podcast?
54:48
Speaker 1: What are you listening to podcast? You know my friend
54:51
Speaker 1: Heather McMahon, she's really hysterical comedian, uh McMahon, Heather McMahon.
54:57
Speaker 1: Her her podcast is called Absolutely Not and she just
54:59
Speaker 1: rail is on everything and travel in life. So I
55:02
Speaker 1: like a I like to feel good laughing podcast. And also,
55:06
Speaker 1: you know, I have to plug my podcast talking Points.
55:08
Speaker 1: Not that I listened to my own podcast because I
55:10
Speaker 1: get to experience it, but so I sometimes just as
55:14
Speaker 1: an aside, I find like on a shorter flight, sometimes
55:17
Speaker 1: I'm not going to watch a movie and I could
55:19
Speaker 1: just pop in a freaking omics or a Mark and
55:24
Speaker 1: it's a right, it's a perfect hour, and like, oh
55:27
Speaker 1: I'm here already. That's it really does help pass the time.
55:29
Speaker 1: I don't I live a block away from work, so
55:31
Speaker 1: I don't luckily to walk to work. So yeah, it's
55:34
Speaker 1: on planes. When I do listen to podcasts, now I
55:36
Speaker 1: get sometimes you're too tired to read. You don't even
55:39
Speaker 1: you don't even want to watch something energy to listen,
55:43
Speaker 1: but just to close your eyes, just like take take
55:45
Speaker 1: me away, caln absolutely. Um. So what's the most important
55:49
Speaker 1: thing people don't know about you? So interesting? I don't
55:52
Speaker 1: think many people know that. But I'm actually a development
55:57
Speaker 1: chief in a tribe in Ghana about an hour and
56:01
Speaker 1: a half outside of Akras. My name is nen Quescy
56:05
Speaker 1: matt te Chu the first and about four years ago,
56:08
Speaker 1: through the charity work I do there, the uh, the
56:10
Speaker 1: guy who's my partner in crime there, we've kind of
56:13
Speaker 1: elevated him as our head of peace movement in Africa
56:16
Speaker 1: as a way of saying thank you to everything I've
56:18
Speaker 1: done for him. Um, he made me. He bequeathed his
56:22
Speaker 1: title to me, um as a as a way of
56:26
Speaker 1: saying thank you for helping elevate his life with all
56:28
Speaker 1: these nobel peace Probably you grew up in poverty and
56:30
Speaker 1: now he's on the global stage with these Nobel laureates.
56:33
Speaker 1: So he made me a development chief and I go
56:35
Speaker 1: back at least once or twice a year, and um,
56:38
Speaker 1: it's really amazing. I've got all my robes and they,
56:42
Speaker 1: uh it's a it's a very unique. I took my
56:44
Speaker 1: parents there and they were just like, you know, they're
56:47
Speaker 1: they're like, how did you how did you go from
56:48
Speaker 1: just growing up in the Philly suburbs to now being
56:50
Speaker 1: a chief in in Ghana? You know that's you mentioned
56:54
Speaker 1: your parents. Um, who are some of your early mentors?
56:57
Speaker 1: And I suspect your your parents might be one of them. Yeah.
56:59
Speaker 1: My had I call him the original points guy. He's
57:01
Speaker 1: actually named Brian Kelly. He's the third boy of three
57:04
Speaker 1: boys and a girl. Um, and I always admired him.
57:07
Speaker 1: He was a business traveler and healthcare and um he
57:11
Speaker 1: taught me. And that was in the nineties is uh.
57:13
Speaker 1: He had points and he said, Brian, if you can
57:15
Speaker 1: I was twelve years old. He said, if you can
57:16
Speaker 1: figure out how to use these, will go on vacation.
57:18
Speaker 1: You know, family of six, we didn't have a ton
57:20
Speaker 1: of money to just blow on fancy vacations. And that
57:23
Speaker 1: was when I figured out how to go to the
57:25
Speaker 1: Cayman Islands and uh so, and he also started he
57:28
Speaker 1: gave me my first job. I started booking travel for him.
57:31
Speaker 1: Um because he so. My dad for sure is one
57:34
Speaker 1: of my earliest mentors. Now, did you ever tell him
57:36
Speaker 1: you were cheating and using Travelocity? I did, and and
57:40
Speaker 1: he's been at speaking gigs with me now and he
57:43
Speaker 1: laughed at me because I make it seem like he was.
57:45
Speaker 1: He was computer illiterate. That's why he paid me to do.
57:48
Speaker 1: He's like, you make me sound so stupid not knowing
57:50
Speaker 1: how to use a computer. I'm like, well, you kind
57:52
Speaker 1: of word that was information arbitrox. Um. So who influenced
57:57
Speaker 1: your approach to travel, to points to credit cards? Obviously
58:02
Speaker 1: your father? Who else? I mean Richard Branson in terms
58:05
Speaker 1: of travel and entrepreneurship and uh like he's just taught
58:10
Speaker 1: me a lot and I got got a chance to
58:12
Speaker 1: interview him on my podcast, and and just having fun
58:15
Speaker 1: in business. I think that was something I've lost along
58:16
Speaker 1: the way sometimes is it's not always fun, but too
58:20
Speaker 1: you do as a CEO of a business, you can
58:22
Speaker 1: set the tone, you know, and you can help hire
58:25
Speaker 1: people and motivate people to have fun. And I do
58:27
Speaker 1: believe businesses are more successful when people are really invested. Um.
58:31
Speaker 1: But in terms of traveling, I didn't grow. I didn't
58:33
Speaker 1: go to abroad until I was in college, really well
58:36
Speaker 1: besides the Cayman Islands. So I've learned to kind of
58:38
Speaker 1: be a traveler on my own in a certain way.
58:40
Speaker 1: But that's been kind of fun, um, I can imagine.
58:43
Speaker 1: So so let's talk about everybody's favorite question. Tell us
58:46
Speaker 1: about some of the books you enjoy reading. What What
58:49
Speaker 1: are some of your favorites? What are you reading now? So?
58:51
Speaker 1: I just finished Bob Iger's book The Ride of My Life,
58:55
Speaker 1: which I found really fascinating. And also, you know, I've
58:57
Speaker 1: been running the Points Guy for going on ten years now,
59:01
Speaker 1: and he had a similar thing where he no one
59:03
Speaker 1: wanted him to keep running Disney because he was the
59:05
Speaker 1: old guy, you know, fresh new leadership, and of course
59:08
Speaker 1: that always goes, you know, even though the Points Guy,
59:10
Speaker 1: frankly as a big business is only you know for
59:12
Speaker 1: the last several years. But I do worry about myself
59:15
Speaker 1: and staying and how do I be creative? How do
59:17
Speaker 1: we push and innovate? So I thought his book was
59:21
Speaker 1: really really I didn't know a lot of it behind
59:22
Speaker 1: the scenes stuff. I also read Travis the book Uh
59:26
Speaker 1: Super Pumped, which is the about I mean that have
59:30
Speaker 1: you read. It is insane, it's it's a page turner,
59:34
Speaker 1: and it's also a perfect model of how to not
59:37
Speaker 1: run a business. I mean the stories, I mean, and
59:40
Speaker 1: they're all sourced too. I mean, this is not just
59:42
Speaker 1: like a gossip, even though they want you to think that,
59:44
Speaker 1: like what was going on in the that bro culture.
59:49
Speaker 1: And so those two books I've read recently and I
59:52
Speaker 1: really liked. And then in terms of inspiration, Layma Bowie.
59:55
Speaker 1: She's a Nobel Peace Prize winner from Liberia. She brought
1:00:00
Speaker 1: hmen together to help end the bloody civil war there,
1:00:02
Speaker 1: and she wrote this book, Mighty Be Our Powers, and
1:00:04
Speaker 1: it's just the story. She was on the floor of
1:00:07
Speaker 1: a refugee camp, had no degree, had three kids and
1:00:11
Speaker 1: alcoholic husband, and it was her whole story and rising
1:00:14
Speaker 1: up being a community leader. And now she's, you know,
1:00:17
Speaker 1: on the floor of the u N opening up sessions
1:00:19
Speaker 1: and she is this world leader and it's like it
1:00:22
Speaker 1: really gives you that inspiration that you know, even on
1:00:24
Speaker 1: our worst days, we've got it pretty good, to say
1:00:28
Speaker 1: the least. By the way, if you liked the Uber book,
1:00:31
Speaker 1: did you read Bad Blood? I did not, so I
1:00:35
Speaker 1: haven't read the Uber book, but it's the top of
1:00:37
Speaker 1: my list, and it sounds very much like John Carrirew's
1:00:41
Speaker 1: book Bad Blood about Sarah Knows. Oh yeah, so I'm
1:00:44
Speaker 1: gonna make that I'm gonna do on Netflix, which we're
1:00:48
Speaker 1: not sane. It's insane. The book goes into so much detail.
1:00:53
Speaker 1: I I know, I'm going to really like the Uber book.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: And based on you really like Uber book, this is
1:00:59
Speaker 1: you should for your next flight. You'll plow through it.
1:01:02
Speaker 1: It was really a fast read. Um tell us about
1:01:05
Speaker 1: a time you failed and what you learned from the experience.
1:01:08
Speaker 1: I would actually say so in college in general, I failed,
1:01:12
Speaker 1: Like I'm a smart guy, but I just, I mean,
1:01:15
Speaker 1: I think I do have a certain level of a
1:01:18
Speaker 1: d D. And going to lecture, I mean, I just
1:01:20
Speaker 1: I couldn't care less. I mean, I failed astronomy. I
1:01:23
Speaker 1: went to University of Pittsburgh and it wasn't But what
1:01:27
Speaker 1: I learned was I think I think I learned. So
1:01:30
Speaker 1: I was student body president, I was ahead of my
1:01:32
Speaker 1: fraternity recruitment. I was like, I really put all my
1:01:35
Speaker 1: energy into people and what I really like doing and
1:01:39
Speaker 1: I think, you know, and I got rejected from m
1:01:42
Speaker 1: y U in high school and it's always it crushed me,
1:01:46
Speaker 1: and now it's kind of cool that you know. I
1:01:48
Speaker 1: uh So, the lesson kids is don't worry about academics.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: It's the an extent. I mean, you look at so
1:01:53
Speaker 1: many successful people in business and now many academics are
1:01:56
Speaker 1: very successful. But I don't know, just throw yourself into
1:01:59
Speaker 1: something that you like that's going to get you further.
1:02:02
Speaker 1: And what I learned being student body president was more
1:02:04
Speaker 1: than any you know, intro to you know, economics one
1:02:09
Speaker 1: on one. So I was gonna ask you what you
1:02:11
Speaker 1: do for fun? But it seems travel right, Well, you know,
1:02:14
Speaker 1: if I could teleport, I would I true, I mean
1:02:16
Speaker 1: I have look, I have a good time. I have
1:02:17
Speaker 1: a good time on playing well, let me let me
1:02:19
Speaker 1: interrupt you. Are you a star Trek fan? I am
1:02:22
Speaker 1: not at all right, so you should be aware of
1:02:24
Speaker 1: the fact. The problem with teleportation is hold the hold
1:02:29
Speaker 1: the physics issues asside. Essentially, we take you apart molecule
1:02:34
Speaker 1: by molecule, make a map of exactly what you are,
1:02:39
Speaker 1: and transport you send energy to another location where the
1:02:43
Speaker 1: rebuild you molecule by molecule. So effectively, we've killed you
1:02:49
Speaker 1: and rebuilt a new one of you. Not the greatest
1:02:53
Speaker 1: thing in the world. What what is it like? Is
1:02:55
Speaker 1: it like jet lag times at thousand? Whenever you teleport?
1:02:59
Speaker 1: Well from the strange trek version is you're fine, You're
1:03:02
Speaker 1: just stopping going so and you are limited in distance,
1:03:05
Speaker 1: but you can teleport from space to wherever. But when
1:03:09
Speaker 1: you actually think about the way it works. What was
1:03:13
Speaker 1: the recent Netflix show or maybe it was the Amazon
1:03:17
Speaker 1: Prime show? Um, I'm drawing a blank on it where
1:03:22
Speaker 1: effectively someone goes to get clones and they killed the
1:03:26
Speaker 1: clone to kill the original and keep the clone. The
1:03:29
Speaker 1: clone is updated and healthier, and I'm drawing a blank
1:03:32
Speaker 1: on the name. But so, okay, maybe I won't time travel,
1:03:36
Speaker 1: but for fun, I do like exploring, not other universes,
1:03:40
Speaker 1: but the underwater world. I'm a huge scuba dive, So
1:03:42
Speaker 1: what do you like to go? So you mentioned the Caymans,
1:03:44
Speaker 1: which is great. I'm actually one of my best size
1:03:46
Speaker 1: was cams. I do Maldive, so I'm actually going there
1:03:48
Speaker 1: this holiday seasons. Um. I had a disappointing dive in
1:03:54
Speaker 1: the Great Barrier Reef. It was bad conditions. But one
1:03:58
Speaker 1: of my big trips I want to take that I
1:04:00
Speaker 1: haven't really done is Palau, South Pacific little because all
1:04:05
Speaker 1: those reefs are going away, right, It's crazy down there,
1:04:08
Speaker 1: the barrier reef is dying. It's I mean it's visible
1:04:11
Speaker 1: from face space. Yes, actually, uh you could see the
1:04:16
Speaker 1: in the in the some of the satellite photos. Huge
1:04:20
Speaker 1: miles and miles have died also. It's crazy. Um, So
1:04:24
Speaker 1: what are you most optimistic about relative to travel today?
1:04:26
Speaker 1: And what do you most pessimists. I think we just
1:04:29
Speaker 1: start touched on. The most pessimistic is the climate. You know,
1:04:32
Speaker 1: I live in Miami too, I split split my time there,
1:04:35
Speaker 1: and just seeing that, you know, reading the article, is
1:04:37
Speaker 1: that in thirty years Miami could be underwater. And now
1:04:39
Speaker 1: that they may, they may stop. You know, the whole
1:04:42
Speaker 1: state may go under soon. Because you know, let's be honest, though,
1:04:46
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be the worst, right right, No, No, I'm
1:04:50
Speaker 1: not New Yorker. And you know you look at Florida.
1:04:52
Speaker 1: It's like, all right, if Florida goes underwater, they're a
1:04:56
Speaker 1: worse environment. So yeah, so the climate chain stuff and
1:04:59
Speaker 1: and you know, Fran the guilt from you know, even
1:05:01
Speaker 1: though we carbon offset all of our employees travel, you know,
1:05:04
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm in a business that's encouraging millions
1:05:07
Speaker 1: of people to travel more so that now I still believe,
1:05:10
Speaker 1: you know, travels ten percent of global GDP. It lifts
1:05:13
Speaker 1: people up, it changes people. So but it isn't you know,
1:05:16
Speaker 1: seeing what's happening on Earth is pretty It isn't Airline
1:05:22
Speaker 1: travel much more efficient than getting in the car and
1:05:24
Speaker 1: driving cross country. I mean, I think there's a lot
1:05:26
Speaker 1: of ways to slice and dice it. I mean, for
1:05:28
Speaker 1: frequent flyers, your carbon footprint is much more than anyone
1:05:31
Speaker 1: in a car um But optimistically speaking, I mean, I
1:05:35
Speaker 1: think this is a golden age of travel in terms
1:05:37
Speaker 1: of you know, these new planes that are more carbon efficient, safer,
1:05:41
Speaker 1: you can now travel. I just sent one of my
1:05:43
Speaker 1: employees on that quantist flight from JFK to Sydney NonStop.
1:05:46
Speaker 1: N I think it might have even crossed twenty But
1:05:50
Speaker 1: even you know, New Ork to Singapore's eighteen and a
1:05:53
Speaker 1: half now, So the fact that you can fly on
1:05:55
Speaker 1: safe safer than ever, it's still cheap. You can still
1:05:57
Speaker 1: go to Europe from under five bucks. We had Asia
1:06:00
Speaker 1: deals this class. You know recently that we're to go
1:06:04
Speaker 1: to Asia round trip, but you can't. Really, it's crazy
1:06:10
Speaker 1: and even business class. So I think I'm optimistic. In general,
1:06:13
Speaker 1: travel is connecting the world more than ever, Um, But
1:06:16
Speaker 1: we just gotta we gotta treat mother Earth a little
1:06:19
Speaker 1: bit better. And what sort of advice would you give
1:06:21
Speaker 1: to a recent college grad just starting their career who
1:06:24
Speaker 1: was interested in in either travel or points or even website.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: The biggest thing is, you know, first of all, treat
1:06:31
Speaker 1: your credit score like an asset. I was dumb in college.
1:06:34
Speaker 1: I didn't pay I didn't pay a Verizon bill. I
1:06:37
Speaker 1: moved down to my frat house. Three years later, I'm
1:06:39
Speaker 1: living in New York and it's two thousand dollars or
1:06:41
Speaker 1: docking my pay. It was like the biggest pain I've
1:06:44
Speaker 1: ever dealt with. So never stick your head in your
1:06:46
Speaker 1: sand with your finances, even if you can't handle it,
1:06:48
Speaker 1: there's so many ways, and even if you just pay
1:06:51
Speaker 1: the minimum to and then you know, but never mess
1:06:54
Speaker 1: up your credit score. It takes years. And then in
1:06:57
Speaker 1: terms of UH in general, I see. So you know,
1:06:59
Speaker 1: college grads, um, take the opportunity has given you. At work,
1:07:02
Speaker 1: I've I've even you know, most of my employees are millennials.
1:07:05
Speaker 1: Take the take the job that may not seem to
1:07:08
Speaker 1: you at the time to make a lot of sense.
1:07:09
Speaker 1: But when people give you an opportunity, jump on it. Um.
1:07:12
Speaker 1: You know, I think the millennials always so worried about
1:07:14
Speaker 1: I don't want to get stuck in doing this for
1:07:15
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. Like, take this project, you're
1:07:18
Speaker 1: not going to you know, if you're a good employee,
1:07:20
Speaker 1: if you you bring a lot to the table, and
1:07:22
Speaker 1: if you're a team player, that's what's going to propel
1:07:24
Speaker 1: you more so than staying on this. Oh, I like
1:07:26
Speaker 1: this specific thing that I'm doing now, and I want to,
1:07:29
Speaker 1: you know, make yourself uncomfortable. That's how you become valuable
1:07:32
Speaker 1: for the company and they'll find the place to put
1:07:34
Speaker 1: you totally. And our final question, what do you know
1:07:37
Speaker 1: about the worlds of Points and travel today that you
1:07:40
Speaker 1: wish you knew ten or twenty years ago when you
1:07:42
Speaker 1: first started playing the Points game? You know, I learn
1:07:48
Speaker 1: every day. You know. Actually, when I launched it, I
1:07:52
Speaker 1: there were other and there so are other travel blockers
1:07:54
Speaker 1: who are way smarter than me in terms of the
1:07:55
Speaker 1: points and miles, and um, I think in general, um,
1:08:03
Speaker 1: it's not about being the smartest. I still learned stuff
1:08:05
Speaker 1: every single day from our community and emails. It's it's
1:08:09
Speaker 1: you know, we always peg ourselves as this going to
1:08:10
Speaker 1: be am I the best at this? Uh. I think
1:08:13
Speaker 1: in general points, I mean, and anything you learn, it's
1:08:16
Speaker 1: going to constantly evolve and change. So UM, I would
1:08:19
Speaker 1: just say this industry will keep changing. It's not over
1:08:23
Speaker 1: and it's been changing for time as well. So instead
1:08:25
Speaker 1: of uh, you know, just be optimistic in general about
1:08:29
Speaker 1: everything and go with the flow. Quite fascinating. We have
1:08:32
Speaker 1: been speaking with Brian Kelly, better known as the Points Guy.
1:08:36
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, well look up an Inch
1:08:38
Speaker 1: or Down an Inch on Apple iTunes, where you can
1:08:40
Speaker 1: see any of the three hundred previous such conversations we've
1:08:44
Speaker 1: had over the past five years. We love your comments,
1:08:47
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