Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of The Vanquishers

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Talks to Dylan Rees about his choice of The Vanquishers · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a grump. Pen knife for doing.
• 0:35
  Quicker, quicker. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
• 0:41
  Blunt Pen Knife for Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
• 0:43
  I'm Dylan here to talk about the Vanquishes, the six episode of
• 0:47
  Flux, and I'm also joined obviously by Joe.
• 0:50
  Joe. Joe, are you there?
• 0:51
  Hello. I'm not going to lie.
• 0:53
  Pretend we just recorded the last two minutes of this and I
• 0:56
  forgot the press record. Take two, everybody.
• 1:00
  So we should be on full now. We we've had a lot of trouble
• 1:03
  getting this episode in, actually, haven't we?
• 1:05
  This is about the third or fourth time we've tried.
• 1:07
  To do it cancellations. Yeah, and you know, The funny
• 1:11
  thing is is, you know, I did these solo, perhaps?
• 1:14
  Or I've never recorded the Vanquishers.
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  Well, maybe you're destined never to do it.
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  So you've already got your own missing episode, and this is
• 1:21
  just the reconstruction. Something's going to happen
• 1:23
  throughout this record our car or you know, the end of
• 1:26
  civilization as we know it. To stop this recording happening
• 1:31
  very quickly, say what I said in take one and that is.
• 1:34
  The last time you came on and took the piss out of my intros
• 1:38
  to have through a blunt pen knife alongside Luke Malloy, I
• 1:42
  noticed you're a little more subtle this time.
• 1:44
  Well, I was egged on by Luke last.
• 1:48
  Time, but it's so weird saying these things twice.
• 1:54
  I'm looking to say what I said last time.
• 1:55
  It's a wibbly, wobbly time. You want me?
• 1:57
  Sort of thing, right? It is absolutely is and it does
• 2:01
  give us a chance to to perfect ourselves.
• 2:05
  As does Jodie Whitaker in this adventure, where she's split
• 2:09
  three ways. Have you ever been split three
• 2:12
  ways, Joe I. Felt like it on the other
• 2:15
  occasion. Oh, sorry, I went off somewhere
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  then. There's three Jodie doctors in
• 2:25
  this. And so I suppose there is a good
• 2:29
  argument to be had that this is. In terms of her performance, her
• 2:33
  best adventure. Yeah, I think so.
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  I think, you know, she delivers three fantastic performances
• 2:42
  playing the same character. And I think it's it's needed
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  because otherwise you've got too much of A Lydia plot, but don't
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  have to travel to hear, to hear, to hear, to hear, have it all
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  happen at the same time and it's such a Doctor Who thing to do.
• 2:54
  Is this a result of condensing the season down to six episodes?
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  He's like, shit off. Set up all this stuff, I've got
• 3:01
  500 plots to resolve. I need 3 doctors to do it.
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  Yeah, but I think, I think it's a good idea and I think it's a
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  very Doctor Who idea. So.
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  So my question that I have for you are one of the previous
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  podcasts is again. I've no idea what you're going
• 3:15
  to. Offer.
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  Absolutely not. But for the sake of the
• 3:18
  listeners who will really want to know what my burning question
• 3:22
  was, do you think one of those doctors should have been the
• 3:25
  brief Dr. But, you know, I'm going to say no for me.
• 3:32
  I know I've had a little time to think about it.
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  Plus, take two. No, no, no.
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  I think for the viewer, yes. For me, no.
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  So I think, I think there are a lot of people that actually
• 3:42
  prefer the roof doctor to the Jody Doctor, which seems
• 3:45
  baffling to me. Absolutely madness.
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  She's had 11 minutes. And that's not for me to say,
• 3:50
  like you can't prefer one doctor to another.
• 3:52
  But yeah, Jody had a lot of time to bed in and.
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  What you say 10 minutes of screen time is is not exactly
• 3:58
  enough to suggest a great doctor.
• 4:00
  It would like showing someone 10 minutes of deep breath and say,
• 4:03
  well, how good you think I know what you think about that one.
• 4:08
  We won't talk about Deep Breath. Now go on for two hours.
• 4:11
  About what I dislike it. It's my least favorite episode
• 4:15
  of new Doctor Who. For real, Yes, for real.
• 4:19
  Not even just to be contrary, I just hate it.
• 4:22
  Wow. And that's exactly the reaction
• 4:23
  you had when I said mine was the wedding of River Song.
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  You know, there's someone championing every episode, and
• 4:31
  there's someone as well. What?
• 4:35
  The reason I brought up Jodie Whitaker is that I have scoured
• 4:39
  the Internet for Jodie Whitaker interviews.
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  And first of all, well, actually, she's a fabulous
• 4:46
  spokesperson for the show. Yeah, and such a laugh as well,
• 4:51
  but she's got so many small things to say about the show as
• 4:54
  well. And if you will indulge me, I've
• 4:56
  got a few quotes here that I'd like to read out to you that she
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  said. And I'd like to hear what your
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  opinion is. So essentially, you're having
• 5:03
  this conversation with Jody Whittaker now and I'm not going
• 5:07
  to do the accent. Do you know what?
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  I tried practicing this with the accent.
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  It didn't work. There's too many people I'm
• 5:13
  going to insult if I try doing this.
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  Okay, here we go. So the thing about the Doctor
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  is, you know that this decision affects the history of the show,
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  the future of the show, regardless of my gender, than
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  just being an actor playing it in your life forever.
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  Because it's a wonderful family to be a part of.
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  The great thing is you're never kicked out and you know, to a
• 5:36
  certain group of people, you're always the Doctor.
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  And that's great, but that might mean you're quite a cup of tea
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  in a cafe will be a little bit different from the average
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  person. That's lovely and I think it's
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  that thing that all the doctors say is being part of a very
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  unique club that only a few people can really even relate
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  to. And it must be such a weird
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  experience to to be known for that role for your entire life,
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  like more than anything else you will do.
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  Interestingly, that one of the few times you hear the actor
• 6:13
  playing the Doctor mentioned that being part of that
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  exclusive club is when they're handing it over to the next one.
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  I had maybe Tenant and Matt Smith both said when they were
• 6:21
  sort of on the set with their successor.
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  That's a really sort of unnerving feeling.
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  Yeah, I wonder if they've all got a WhatsApp.
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  Tom. Baker won't be in it, Eccleston
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  won't be in it, but all the others would be.
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  Okay. What do you think about this
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  then? The wonderful thing about this
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  role is that it is so mercurial. It challenges you in so many
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  ways, but I've never had such a big audience for that challenge
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  before I've even gone set. That's, yeah, that is very
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  interesting because everybody's trying to second guess what
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  you're going to do before you've even done it.
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  And I think that's why Doctor Who fans also get so worked up
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  sometimes, because they get an idea of what they want in their
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  head or what they think should happen, and then something else
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  happens. But yeah, and people will be
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  pouring over her performance in this forever.
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  There will always be new hot takes on the whitter career, or
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  be them good, bad or indifferent.
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  You know, like those sort of established clunkers.
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  That seem to do the rounds of being popular and then being
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  less popular again. I'm wondering this era is just
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  going to go round in circles like this?
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  I think to compare it to a classic series sort of era, I
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  think it's probably got a lot in common with the Davidson era and
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  that it had its fans at the time.
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  But it must have seemed so different to a lot of people
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  that they they work, they didn't quite like it, but as you get
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  more distance. People will just start to grow
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  to love it and I think it will just shoot up and up and up.
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  Everybody hated Kinder, didn't they?
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  And now everybody loves Kinder, like. 1st on the list or
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  something? Yeah, exactly.
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  When it came bottom of the list, back in the day, everyone
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  preferred time fly bafflingly. So here's her talking about the
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  reaction against her in social media then.
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  She goes. It has its pluses and its
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  minuses. Social media, it's very
• 8:15
  empowering and it gives people a voice that need a voice, but I
• 8:18
  just don't need to know all that opinion about myself.
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  It's not that it doesn't matter, it's that there's nothing I can
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  do with it. The best thing for me to do is
• 8:28
  not to deny that it's happening, but just to only take not to
• 8:31
  filter, but to take the bits that aren't detrimental to my
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  approach or my mental health back on.
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  You've got to wonder how. Open because you would just
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  assume they're not on social media, but then social media.
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  Such a valuable communication method.
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  Like, I mean, there's that story of Helen Rainer isn't going on.
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  Gallifrey based and having a breakdown after reviews.
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  We had which you would. Hey, Russell, tell you what were
• 8:59
  you thinking getting in that cesspit with the Doctor Who
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  fans? No, exactly.
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  But yeah, no, she's bang on and. I hope that she didn't see too
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  much of negativity during her time.
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  I don't think that she did. You know, she said something
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  very funny as well. You know, she goes, if you're
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  going to be Method, it's going to be a long audition process
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  before you find somebody authentically alien.
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  It's great. That, that that is brilliant and
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  I think the only time that they ever found that was in Tom
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  Baker. Yeah, he was the Doctor.
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  Like he walked in fully. I love there, she says as well.
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  All my quirks and energies that exhaust other people, I can now
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  put them into a role. Incredible.
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  It's wonderful she she has something to say about her
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  gender in the role as well, she says.
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  Of course you can look up to a man, but it's double standards.
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  The other way, who will the boys look up to?
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  I don't know. I'm a woman.
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  And that's okay too, once you're in these characters and playing
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  this role. If you identify and have a love
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  or affinity for that role, there's something for everyone
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  and we celebrated that beautifully.
• 10:12
  That's lovely. I think it's very, very true.
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  And finally, which I thought was a nice place when even though
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  we're not doing Power of the Doctor, this is what she says.
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  Just as she's given up the role. So just after she's filmed her
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  last scene and she's interviewed and she said this is the best
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  career I've ever worked with and this is the biggest heartbreak
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  for me, leaving Cardiff and leaving this family.
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  Mandip included. Cast and crew included everyone,
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  and they would not realize the gifts that they've given us.
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  The love and support and friendship are most importantly
• 10:43
  of all the banter. I've never laughed so much in my
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  entire life and I've never had such a good time in a job with
• 10:49
  people who work their butts off all day.
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  It just sounds like they were having a fucking blast.
• 10:54
  It does, it does, and I mean to a certain extent, The actors are
• 10:57
  often protected somewhat from the chaos that may be happening
• 11:01
  elsewhere on Set. But then.
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  Film and television sets are always chaotic, so I wouldn't
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  worry too much about chaos in Cardiff or whatever the
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  headlines were at the time. I'm assuming as a, you know,
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  sort of production crew member. As you are, you're not protected
• 11:18
  from the chaos. No, I'm I'm on the frontline
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  battling us at all hours of the day.
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  You're the shield. While while the cast are, while
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  the cast have gone home for their tea, I'm up going we.
• 11:33
  Need to fucking insult this. Happen, it's fine.
• 11:36
  I mean, I think. I think the inclusion on drawing
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  from all of that though is just the we were really lucky to have
• 11:42
  her. We were really lucky to have her
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  and I think. She will continue to be a great
• 11:46
  ambassador for the show and I don't think it this is the last
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  we see of her playing the Doctor.
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  Well then my last question to ask you before we head into the
• 11:55
  Vanquishers. Yes.
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  Is do you think this is a satisfactory end to the flux
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  season? I mean, it had a lot to live up
• 12:05
  to this. I think it's a satisfactory as
• 12:08
  most Doctor Who season finales. You know, we talked a lot in,
• 12:14
  excuse me, in previous episodes about potentially this having
• 12:19
  more implications and resonations throughout the
• 12:23
  Doctor universe that it could do.
• 12:25
  But ultimately, I think everything gets tidied up pretty
• 12:27
  neatly and it's a great fun adventure on the way and I think
• 12:32
  it leaves a much needed sort of the status quo is restored at
• 12:37
  the end of it, but and it's a great ride on the way.
• 12:40
  So yeah, I've. I I highly rate it.
• 12:44
  I wish it again this morning. I couldn't catch a breath.
• 12:46
  It was by such a lick. Like, I'm not sure I I had time
• 12:51
  to think about whether it was being resolved satisfactually
• 12:53
  because, yeah, suddenly something else exciting was
• 12:56
  happening, you know? Yeah, I mean there's there's a
• 13:00
  lot going on which I'm sure we'll discuss as we get into it,
• 13:03
  but it is all there. You just again, it's designed to
• 13:08
  be watched again and again, not just once on a Sunday evening.
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  Well, let's watch it one more time then.
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  Shall we? Yes.
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  You're gonna count us in? I'd.
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  Love to In 5432, bring on the Grand Serpent 10.
• 13:27
  God, I've got the sound on. Rookie mistake.
• 13:32
  Oh, the rookie Okay previously on.
• 13:35
  Doctor Who? In quick succession, Joseph
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  Williamson, Carvinista, Suntar and Ships.
• 13:43
  Also, this is just a lovely reminder of what a big massive
• 13:46
  story is. I've said this on this before,
• 13:48
  but I will never not love a previously on Doctor Who.
• 13:53
  And I've said this before on this, at the risk of repeating
• 13:56
  myself. It really needed it.
• 13:59
  Yes, it absolutely is. It absolutely is.
• 14:01
  But who's tuning in on for this episode?
• 14:03
  And like, I know I'll probably jump in at episode 6, I love.
• 14:08
  That, you know, she was in deadly danger at the end of the
• 14:09
  last episode, and then she just runs across the room.
• 14:11
  That's how she gets out. Yeah, it's classic what you
• 14:15
  doing. I love after you.
• 14:21
  And after you. I was just going to say I love
• 14:23
  the proactive nature of Yaz sorting all this out.
• 14:26
  Because she's like, again, she she does that whole Doctorish
• 14:31
  thing, but without having to be Clara or Rose when they get a
• 14:36
  bit too big for the boot. She's just someone who knows how
• 14:39
  to be proactive in an adventure. I love the bit where they
• 14:43
  acknowledge that in this episode and Dan goes, she is brilliant.
• 14:47
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, she's come on.
• 14:50
  I mean, I always like, yes, but in flux season, but actually
• 14:54
  came on. Yeah, these scenes here with
• 14:57
  Joseph Williamson, these are the scenes that were being shot
• 15:01
  where, oh, look at this, the pull back to the lava.
• 15:04
  Amazing. Doesn't need to be there.
• 15:06
  It doesn't need to be there at all, does it?
• 15:08
  You know what it reminds me of? You're not being over the phone
• 15:11
  where it goes. Don't go through that.
• 15:14
  It's just like that, but with a budget, you know, some terrible
• 15:18
  monster with. Flames coming out of his nose.
• 15:20
  Very. True.
• 15:21
  These are the things that they were shooting.
• 15:23
  When John Bishop does his video diary, he's sitting around in
• 15:28
  this set talking. Yeah, of course stuff.
• 15:31
  It's great. So tech taeum's been dispatched
• 15:36
  and the ravages have taken over division.
• 15:42
  I feel like you do need a bit of sacrifice in these big epic
• 15:45
  stories. That's why people object about
• 15:47
  Jericho going later, but it gives it a bit of heft.
• 15:51
  Not only do you need the sacrifice, but also the
• 15:55
  dispatching of Tech Tayun is key to keeping the Doctor's past the
• 15:59
  mystery. Yeah.
• 16:01
  Cuz you've got the FOB watch, and then you've got Tech Tayun
• 16:04
  and you need to get both of those out of the picture in
• 16:07
  order to leave the mystery there.
• 16:11
  The bizarre thing as well is that you need the three Doctors
• 16:14
  in this. There are so many characters in
• 16:16
  this now you need the Doctor to interact with.
• 16:19
  All of them but. Couldn't have them all.
• 16:21
  You know, I can practice where it got a bit ridiculous and
• 16:24
  there's about nine people in the scene, or here there will be
• 16:27
  about 20. You have got to split it up,
• 16:32
  otherwise it would just get a bit unwieldy.
• 16:33
  Oh, here's Kate Stewart look. Charismatic Kate.
• 16:36
  Oh, here we go. Oh, she's still doing that
• 16:39
  thing, though, where she announces I'm the head of human
• 16:42
  occupation against son Taran's, you know.
• 16:45
  She's always stating what she's doing.
• 16:46
  Bring back John. The venal's forgiven brought him
• 16:51
  in charge of fucking unit. Jesus Christ, No.
• 16:56
  His ego is out of control as it is.
• 16:57
  Don't give him a role in the new series.
• 17:00
  No, I don't think there's any danger of that.
• 17:03
  I like this, she goes. It's a bit like that bit in
• 17:06
  Rocky Horror Picture Show. We go Doctor Scott, Janet, Brad,
• 17:09
  where she sees every person in the scene, Kate Stewart, and
• 17:13
  then she sees jazz and she just gives her a big hug.
• 17:15
  Yeah, it's it's a lovely moment like and you can tell that
• 17:19
  there's a real bond between those two characters and like
• 17:22
  that it's it's meant though, other doctors who wouldn't hug
• 17:25
  anybody. That's true, I needed cards in
• 17:29
  order to be polite to people, although I did find that quite
• 17:32
  funny actually. Do you know the name of the
• 17:34
  woman playing Azure? No, we did this in the first
• 17:39
  episode, didn't we? And I've completely forgotten
• 17:42
  already. She gets a lot of the dialogue
• 17:44
  in this episode unnoticed. Yeah, she does.
• 17:47
  And I think that's just because he's doing all the talking a lot
• 17:50
  in the other ones and it's just kind of.
• 17:53
  Leveling the playing field a little bit.
• 17:54
  He's a little less camp than he is he's.
• 17:57
  Only a little less. But she does still bring her
• 18:01
  voice down like. This she's got some some real
• 18:05
  Ronnie energy to her. I really liked how that get
• 18:10
  winning some music as well, with him saying right, we've got
• 18:12
  division, we've got control of all of this now and The Flux,
• 18:16
  but it looks like they've got all basically with cards.
• 18:19
  It's also another little cliffhanger which the best sort
• 18:22
  of pre title sequences give you. Azuya is played by Rashenda
• 18:26
  Samdal. Well, she's marvelous.
• 18:30
  She is absolutely wonderful. And I kinda wish I know they had
• 18:35
  to be dispatched as I kinda wish we could have kept them for a.
• 18:38
  Bit yeah, but they're the sort of characters that can come
• 18:40
  back, I think. You know.
• 18:42
  Well, I mean, they had more time than your average new series.
• 18:45
  They had six episodes, you know? Yeah, and there's all those
• 18:48
  stories we haven't seen them in. So the Doctor can meet them in
• 18:53
  the Doctor's feature, but they're past.
• 18:56
  My God, they're doing that roof sale.
• 18:57
  Make a big finish. Yeah, that'll be fair.
• 19:00
  Yeah. I'll be there.
• 19:02
  Oh, I love this. You know he's doing the things I
• 19:05
  know. My son, my cyber man and Darla
• 19:07
  comrades, you know. Come in, come in.
• 19:10
  Except you ghastly ruins. Fuck off.
• 19:13
  All right, He's great. This this fellow from 2 doors
• 19:18
  down. What a great suntar.
• 19:20
  Anyway. He's amazing and this is no
• 19:22
  slighted down stocky, but it is nice to see other people getting
• 19:25
  a go to. Play a Son Taran.
• 19:28
  There's understandably damn stocky in the Go to Son Taran.
• 19:32
  Well, it was like when you had Ashad as a cyber man.
• 19:35
  It was so refreshing to have a new cyber voice that wasn't
• 19:38
  Idiot Riggs, you know? Hell, she kicks ass, baby.
• 19:45
  She's amazing. She's taking out a load of She's
• 19:47
  already taken out a load of Cybermen in an earlier episode.
• 19:50
  Now she's just taking out a ton of son Tarans.
• 19:52
  Where's the Big Finish box set for Bell and Vinder and the
• 19:55
  baby? We need it, don't we?
• 19:57
  My my girlfriend Daisy, just whenever it's I say about Doctor
• 20:03
  Who's been off, she's like, I just want to know what happened
• 20:04
  to Jackie Tyler's baby. She's like, that's the plot I
• 20:09
  need to know, like where's Jackie's baby?
• 20:12
  We're calling him. We're calling him Doctor.
• 20:15
  Yeah. What do you think about this,
• 20:20
  then? The Grand Serpent working with
• 20:22
  us on tolerance? I think, I mean, it's all got to
• 20:25
  pull together in some way, shape or form, right?
• 20:27
  And I mean the Grand Serpent on his own is a bit too, is a bit
• 20:32
  too separate from the plot, so it kind of makes sense.
• 20:35
  And I mean he's just a malevolent bastard.
• 20:38
  He's got sort of manager, manager, master energy to him.
• 20:42
  And I think, yeah, I buy it and I just love the suntans in this.
• 20:47
  I think they're so. Well, ultimately they are the
• 20:51
  villains of this. Story Yeah, exactly like you.
• 20:54
  You see Daleks and cyber men and things like that, and they're
• 20:58
  there, but they're very much in the background to show the
• 21:00
  effects of the flux and what happens the universe afterwards.
• 21:03
  But they're they're the ones that are taking the initiative
• 21:07
  to sort of ride out the events that that the ravages are bought
• 21:10
  on the universe and try and finally take control.
• 21:13
  And so massive props to Chivers, because I don't think RCD or
• 21:18
  Moffett would ever. So put them as as the top tier
• 21:22
  villain against the sidemen and the Daleks.
• 21:25
  No, but they, you know, they're supposed to be these ultimate
• 21:27
  warriors. And the quite a lot of the time
• 21:29
  they come, they come off like a sort of not just a second tier
• 21:32
  Doctor Who body, but you never quite believe that they are this
• 21:36
  militaristic force. And here they absolutely are.
• 21:38
  They. They conquered the Earth by
• 21:40
  episode 2, right? Yeah, and I don't think you're
• 21:42
  ever going to see a better Suntar.
• 21:43
  And seeing them when they take out those two armies later on as
• 21:46
  my one of my favorite bits of the whole fuck that was laughing
• 21:50
  his head off. And those Daleks and Simon Will
• 21:51
  look at each other and go, what's going on?
• 21:54
  Heck. Right.
• 21:55
  Did you see that bit a second ago there where 13 crashed that
• 22:00
  ship into the Suntar and Shields?
• 22:03
  Fuck. I mean, she's dangerous to be
• 22:05
  around. She knew that was going to
• 22:07
  happen, didn't she? Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:09
  Now we're back in the place that definitely is Lung Barrow.
• 22:14
  It doesn't like it. Yeah, such a cool image in like
• 22:19
  a big scifi. We all said in in like a fantasy
• 22:22
  zone and a fantasy world. And it's just an extra bit of
• 22:25
  it. Like it's almost Tim Burtonesque
• 22:26
  in its design. One this as well with them in
• 22:29
  color and everything else in black and white.
• 22:32
  This is so weird ass imagery. I like the fact that as well.
• 22:36
  He wants to take that house apart, so all of her memories
• 22:39
  apart, put it together again. So this is basically a dry run
• 22:42
  for what they're actually going to do.
• 22:44
  Their ultimate plan isn't it is to end the universe, rewind it
• 22:47
  all and do it again. Yeah.
• 22:49
  And they wouldn't do that to the universe and the Doctor,
• 22:51
  presumably. They are sick.
• 22:53
  I'm telling you they are. Vile human beings.
• 22:56
  They're a bunch of they look like very evil bath bombs, don't
• 22:59
  they? Want another bath bomb?
• 23:02
  I'll finger. Me too.
• 23:04
  As swarming as you're fizzing away in the bath now that her
• 23:09
  hand dissolves into color. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 23:13
  Now, does that mean has has he permanently removed some of her
• 23:18
  memories that she'll never get at this point?
• 23:21
  Or when he puts it all back together again, are they all
• 23:24
  back there? We'll never know, will we?
• 23:29
  I like the idea that perhaps he has just destroyed some of our
• 23:33
  past that she will never, ever know about.
• 23:36
  I mean, that might have been a better solution than her.
• 23:40
  I mean, I love her dropping the watch into the TARDIS.
• 23:43
  No, people have objections to that.
• 23:45
  But for me, for us, just go to know what I like, who I am.
• 23:48
  Fuck this. Yeah, it's the tallest.
• 23:52
  But it would have been a nice sort of she doesn't have to make
• 23:55
  the choice solution had he took them away from her.
• 23:59
  But I think, you know, Chibnall said that the Time Michelle plot
• 24:02
  was all about adoption and he was adopted.
• 24:04
  And I think that's a real my sentiment for any kid that's
• 24:07
  watching there is adopted to go. Actually, it's not about my
• 24:09
  past, it's about who I am and liking that person.
• 24:12
  Although I doubt many adopted children quite have the crooked
• 24:15
  house background of the doctor. Oh, I've got a crooked house in
• 24:19
  the back of my mind. I'll tell you, I'm often blaming
• 24:22
  things on my past as well. Take a leaf out of the doctor's
• 24:27
  book. Oh, I like this When she goes,
• 24:30
  What are you? You're the mad mom, aren't you?
• 24:32
  You're on my list. I would love to see what's on
• 24:35
  the rest of that list. Oh yeah, I bet it's quite
• 24:37
  exhaustive. I wonder if Rasputin was on
• 24:40
  there. Hang about, Jody.
• 24:44
  He's coming up. But this poor fellow, Joseph
• 24:48
  Williamson, he doesn't really have much of A role in this,
• 24:51
  does he? I didn't notice that.
• 24:52
  Like he he pops in and out and does his bizarre sort of
• 24:56
  laughing away down corridors. But he's he's just sort of an
• 25:00
  added mystery. And I don't think, unless you
• 25:03
  were just doing an episode about the tunnels, I don't think his
• 25:06
  part was ever going to be a huge part.
• 25:08
  It's just a bit of fun to have there.
• 25:10
  That's that sort of fun speculation.
• 25:12
  I wonder if that was the case at one point, that they were going
• 25:15
  to do a whole episode about the tunnels I.
• 25:17
  Mean. I'm almost certain that that was
• 25:18
  the case. Which is so many plots in this,
• 25:21
  You know, you could say about 15 things.
• 25:23
  Yeah, they were definitely going to do an episode about that.
• 25:25
  You know, we've been angels in the village.
• 25:27
  Yeah, but I think, I think that the show should be like this.
• 25:31
  It should be take up, you know, we've said it about Moffett
• 25:35
  before. It should be taking those ideas
• 25:36
  and going, do you know what? Television so complicated that
• 25:40
  we do need to take some big ideas and be done with them in
• 25:44
  like a third of the runtime or something like that.
• 25:47
  Would you understand if somebody said this was too fast for them,
• 25:50
  there's too much going on and they would prefer it if it just
• 25:53
  breathe a little more. I I I can get that.
• 25:56
  But also, I don't think in the current television landscape
• 26:00
  there's really room for that. I think that's a shame.
• 26:05
  Well, yeah. I I I I just think you know you
• 26:09
  roll with it or get rolled over stop being.
• 26:14
  A doctor I don't worry. Our generation of or my
• 26:19
  generation will be gone then. 20 or 30, It'll be all the young
• 26:23
  ones. I can't try to think how fast
• 26:25
  the show's going to be going then.
• 26:26
  Oh yeah, it'll be every episode will be 5 minutes long and 5000
• 26:30
  things. It'll be one of those TikTok
• 26:32
  videos that'll be the episode I'm being trisected across Free
• 26:37
  reality, she says. It breaks every known law of
• 26:41
  everything. Yeah, I like this sort of
• 26:44
  obscure technobabble, you know? Yeah, and it takes a good actor
• 26:47
  to deliver this shit. And you know.
• 26:50
  But I say this shit. I mean, that's what that's how
• 26:53
  Harrison Ford described it, didn't he in in Star Wars?
• 26:56
  He has got the exposition now, Pat.
• 26:59
  Yeah, she can do it with pace and with conviction.
• 27:03
  Oh, is this Liverpool? It is Liverpool that.
• 27:06
  Can imagine Chibnel watching these scenes of Sontaras because
• 27:09
  he lives in Liverpool, didn't he?
• 27:10
  He's. From there I think.
• 27:13
  I bet he's like, Oh yes, look at that and all those places I used
• 27:15
  to walk around. It's great.
• 27:18
  Now, if I had a minor complaint, just very quickly, it would be
• 27:23
  the lack of human extras in this.
• 27:25
  But you know, we'll get to that later.
• 27:26
  This look at this very important scene in the history of Doctor
• 27:29
  Who. This scene is brilliant, All
• 27:31
  right, Yeah. Many people say that everything
• 27:35
  is wrong with those who that we stop to.
• 27:39
  Is he laughing his head off there?
• 27:40
  He's sort of chowling, isn't he? Yeah.
• 27:44
  Sontara in a sweet shop eating chocolate bars.
• 27:47
  I know. Don't you tell me Chipdel can't
• 27:52
  do comedy. I know, and I think it's such a
• 27:54
  good idea, that they've got this weakness and of course it would
• 28:00
  be something like sweets because it's just that's not something
• 28:04
  that they've ever experienced before.
• 28:07
  Oh, I'll buy it as well. That's my biggest weakness is
• 28:09
  chocolate. Oh, then watch Dan's facial
• 28:12
  expressions in this. He's so integral to the show now
• 28:15
  it keeps cutting to his reactions and he's super
• 28:17
  confident. This is Dan Starkey again, isn't
• 28:23
  it? Yeah, I think it is.
• 28:25
  Yeah. Now, is it all Sontaris or is it
• 28:27
  just this one that's addicted to sweets and chocolate?
• 28:31
  I want it to. I want to believe it's all of
• 28:33
  them. Of course, yeah.
• 28:34
  You know they're there and their ships munching down on Twix
• 28:38
  balls I. Think it was a in a a Dairy Milk
• 28:42
  caramel just then. So Doctor Who to me is to to
• 28:46
  take this enormous, epic story I never seen in a fucking corner
• 28:51
  shop. Yeah, of course.
• 28:53
  Well, this was. I feel like this was one of the
• 28:55
  first things we saw with the Suntarins filmed out in public
• 29:00
  was they were like, oh, it's Suntarins invading a corner
• 29:03
  shop. I can see why people might not
• 29:07
  have thought much of this. Oh, that line chocolate.
• 29:12
  Fantastic. Also like the suntans have been
• 29:15
  used for comedy for so long. Like, you know, and they're
• 29:18
  quite serious in this, so I'm fine with another little comedy
• 29:22
  moment thrown in. Yeah, I mean I think that's
• 29:25
  there's there is plenty of comedy with the suntan, but
• 29:28
  yeah. I saw the noise.
• 29:30
  Affective, militaristic force they've ever been, isn't it?
• 29:33
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 29:35
  We stopped for a hug between Jericho and Claire.
• 29:39
  That's always room for a hug and Doctor Who.
• 29:41
  There is and now come on a. Digital hug.
• 29:47
  I've had a real one, all right. I know your hugs are amazing of.
• 29:53
  Course. See Jericho.
• 29:57
  He doesn't get an awful lot doing the first half of this.
• 30:00
  And then he's in. He's on the ship, isn't he, as
• 30:02
  one of the psychic operators or something like that.
• 30:07
  But I do think the best emotional moment in this episode
• 30:10
  is. His sacrifice.
• 30:12
  Yeah, it is. And you know, again, everyone's
• 30:14
  like, why did you have to kill him?
• 30:15
  And it's like, well, you didn't put drama, dust, things like
• 30:19
  that. You there's got to be, there's
• 30:20
  got to be the sacrifices made. Otherwise there are no
• 30:23
  consequences. If you're restoring the rest of
• 30:25
  the universe, you need a few people to die and never come
• 30:27
  back. Oh, I think if there's no
• 30:29
  sacrifice at all, then it's a little easy, you know, if you if
• 30:33
  you basically gonna end the season unloaded technobabble.
• 30:37
  It's too easy. But they're not going to kill
• 30:39
  Bill on it. This ain't Game of Fucking
• 30:41
  Thrones where you kill the pregnant women.
• 30:42
  No. Is this where we learn where she
• 30:49
  learns that he was her companion?
• 30:51
  Yeah, but he can't talk about it because he's got an explosive
• 30:54
  thing in his head. Like there's a whole mind, like
• 30:57
  there's so much to be mined there.
• 30:58
  I know. And I'll buy him as a Doctor Who
• 31:02
  companion, absolutely. Watching this earlier, right?
• 31:06
  Going why? Somebody just switched the TV on
• 31:08
  right now and you've got a chat with a dog.
• 31:12
  What would they think? But people really complained
• 31:15
  about his makeup, and I think he looks.
• 31:17
  Like a fucking dog. He doesn't like a dog.
• 31:20
  Yeah. Do you know Nathan, who I record
• 31:24
  the Star Trek podcast with, Dislikes the era intensely,
• 31:29
  dislikes this episode and he says what is?
• 31:32
  Are you recording a podcast about?
• 31:34
  The episode where 3,000,000 dogs die and no one gives a shit
• 31:38
  about because he's got dogs? Well yeah, that's the one.
• 31:42
  I really love that episode. He obviously gave a shit.
• 31:46
  He did. He He finds it utterly baffling
• 31:49
  that I could enjoy this. Well, Nathan.
• 31:55
  And I wind him up. I just got.
• 31:56
  I love. It some of us have impeccable
• 32:01
  taste of us, not so much. That's right.
• 32:04
  I'm having a good look at Azure's makeup here.
• 32:07
  Yeah, that's. Interesting, sitting it down her
• 32:08
  forehead. Yeah, that she's the one that
• 32:11
  looks most like a bath bomb. Yeah, you're right.
• 32:14
  Be a lovely smell, I reckon. No, Look, you get that fucking
• 32:18
  glitter in the bath, wouldn't you?
• 32:19
  I should. Get that?
• 32:21
  You have one of those ones when you've got the flowers.
• 32:22
  Oh yeah, all the all the time. And you're like, you get out and
• 32:26
  you look like you've been having a dalliance with a drag queen.
• 32:29
  The next time someone's exploring your ass crack, they
• 32:31
  discover a rose petal or something.
• 32:34
  What have you been doing? I just had a bath, all right.
• 32:37
  Will it come out covered in glitter?
• 32:42
  But this is this is important because they're once again
• 32:46
  talking about what the first thing Doctor stands for.
• 32:52
  I was just going to say there's not a lot of glitter in The Who.
• 32:55
  I feel like it got used quite a lot in classic Doctor Who,
• 32:57
  especially in the 80s, but you don't get a lot of glitter.
• 33:00
  No, there's not a lot of glam, is there?
• 33:03
  No, but the ravages really being I'm sure Rtd's new era will be
• 33:06
  heavy on the glitter. Especially if they're bringing
• 33:09
  in all these fabulous drag Queens and I can't imagine Jigs
• 33:13
  Monsoon, you know, not having a big glitter.
• 33:17
  I think it's going to be a great villain, you know, whoever that
• 33:20
  is. I know everybody's saying it's
• 33:22
  the Ronnie, but everybody always says.
• 33:24
  It's the Ronnie. But that's the only one time
• 33:27
  where I've wanted it to be true. It would be brilliant.
• 33:30
  The only person that can be more calm than Kate O'Mara.
• 33:34
  I saw somebody on in Levine's Facebook forum which, you know
• 33:37
  I'm a glutton for punishment and like to visit, claim I I think
• 33:40
  it would be disrespectful for a drag queen to play the Ronnie
• 33:45
  after Kate O'Mara put in such a serious, fantastic performance
• 33:49
  and he's a great actor and I'm a bit like, were we watching the
• 33:53
  same performance? She's got that wonderful singer
• 33:57
  in the outtake, isn't she? Too much in time when they're
• 34:00
  saying, look, you're doing it a bit camp love and she goes a bit
• 34:02
  camp she goes, what show am I working on?
• 34:07
  Well, with all due respect to every member of Ian Levine's
• 34:10
  Facebook group, crawl in a hole and die.
• 34:13
  All right, I can only imagine the conversations that go on
• 34:19
  there. Some of them are very, very
• 34:21
  positive, I'm sure. I'll watch this.
• 34:24
  I'll get kicked out of the group man for talking about it on the.
• 34:29
  Besmirching our good name had some bumping knife.
• 34:35
  So are they. They talk about their religion
• 34:40
  and all that and time as witness, so do they venerate
• 34:43
  time? I think so, yeah.
• 34:45
  I think that's their I think they venerate it, but also they
• 34:50
  kind of want to control it, don't they?
• 34:53
  Because later on in the episode when they murdered or sent off
• 34:57
  to another plane or whatever happens to them, she goes
• 35:00
  essential or something like that, you know, as if she's
• 35:03
  going to a higher plane. Maybe she is.
• 35:07
  Maybe a higher plane and we'll we'll see them back at some
• 35:09
  point. These things are gold in a
• 35:11
  minute where Jody whiskers being tortured by the Grand Serpent
• 35:16
  and she gets to be sucky as hell.
• 35:19
  She got all that tickles a bit, absolutely unimpressed by this
• 35:24
  man. And I like as well the fact that
• 35:27
  she manages to figure out his back story, but she only gives
• 35:31
  us some obscure details of what were you a dictator and all of
• 35:34
  this? And she niggles him enough
• 35:36
  because he hasn't really said anything about where he's come
• 35:38
  from. And he says, I think he said
• 35:40
  something like, you know, all of my people revealed me or
• 35:42
  something like that, and it's it's enough.
• 35:45
  For you to know who he is. Exactly.
• 35:47
  I also think that the moments where she gets tortured, they're
• 35:50
  very 4th Doctor. The way she responds to sort of
• 35:54
  the torturing of it not really hurt.
• 35:55
  Like you couldn't see Davidson or someone like that doing those
• 35:58
  scenes, but you could see the 4th Doctor doing it, and indeed
• 36:01
  the Jodie's Dr. It's a bit like that being Sea of Death, where
• 36:04
  he's got the thumbscrews. On Yeah, exactly.
• 36:07
  I haven't started yet. It goes.
• 36:08
  No, your hands are really cold. Or when the graph vindicate
• 36:13
  slaps around the face with a glove and he just picks it up
• 36:16
  and slaps it back. Well, did you know it's there
• 36:20
  though? So Darwins and picked up Jody.
• 36:22
  It would carry her away and she was completely non bothered by
• 36:25
  it. It's just a day in the life of
• 36:29
  the Doctor. So you don't tell me no one
• 36:31
  cares about the dogs that he has a.
• 36:33
  And actually I like the fact that we pause here for a couple
• 36:35
  of seconds. Just yeah, because we've just,
• 36:38
  it's happened off screen, but they've killed this entire race.
• 36:41
  I mean, I always question when we murder millions of people,
• 36:45
  how we're supposed to respond to that.
• 36:48
  Yeah, because it's such a great number that, yeah.
• 36:51
  Can you have any emotional involvement?
• 36:53
  Get that kind of A twist? No, I mean, I I do think
• 36:56
  sometimes, and this is, you know, I think Doctor Who's
• 37:00
  guilty of it in all areas. Sometimes you just need that
• 37:03
  little cutaway to those, all those Lou Pari being killed and
• 37:06
  stuff like that to to sell the moment a bit more.
• 37:11
  And then I get later on when it's all the Daleks and all the
• 37:13
  sidemen, and I really care about them because they're the
• 37:15
  villains, but. Now I love this landscape inside
• 37:20
  of passenger. There's a couple, isn't there?
• 37:23
  Yeah. Do you know what it reminds me
• 37:25
  of? It reminds me of people running
• 37:26
  around inside a computer game. Yeah, yeah.
• 37:31
  And I like that die as well. Be like they underestimate me.
• 37:35
  I'll figure this all out. And she's the reason they get
• 37:37
  out of there. Yeah, no.
• 37:38
  And she's a smart character. And again, all these characters
• 37:41
  have agency and a storyline, and they're not just there to be
• 37:47
  sort of cannon fodder or whatever.
• 37:50
  I know so. I really want to lick Vinder's
• 37:52
  all. So he is a beautiful man, isn't
• 37:55
  he? Isn't he?
• 37:56
  Gorgeous. He's a very attractive man, but
• 38:01
  I'm not sure he's. Gonna play Ryan.
• 38:03
  He's such a good accent. Do you think he would have been
• 38:05
  a bit more charismatic as Ryan A?
• 38:07
  Bit more charismatic. Than Ryan.
• 38:11
  I've got chips though. I think.
• 38:16
  Ryan's performance is very underplayed on purpose and he is
• 38:20
  just a bit of a sort of late teens, early 20s kid And you
• 38:25
  know, I've met plenty of people like Ryan in my life that he's
• 38:29
  not impressed by anything. Tells him when he's given a
• 38:32
  chance to really act as well. Yeah, terrific.
• 38:34
  I don't want to write him off, but don't think he's the most
• 38:37
  memorable of companions either. No, absolutely not, especially
• 38:40
  when you you've got Graham. In that lot, And then, yeah, as
• 38:44
  she comes into her own. Why do when Tozen does comedy, I
• 38:48
  bet it all from 55 when that machine goes in his ear.
• 38:54
  Or just like I love that moment in The Ghost Monument where he's
• 38:58
  like, I can do this, I've, I'll say computer games, shoots
• 39:00
  everything. And then he he just runs back
• 39:02
  in. It's such a simple joke, but it
• 39:04
  works very well. Chippers does that a couple of
• 39:06
  times and I swear that's him, like poking at masculinity a
• 39:09
  beer. Yeah, it's all like, yeah, I've
• 39:12
  got this playing these games. He's like.
• 39:15
  He runs away. And the moments with his dad as
• 39:19
  well, just talking about his performance in Revolution
• 39:22
  Revolution Resolution Resolution one of the hours are very
• 39:26
  touching and it shows his acting chops.
• 39:30
  Another reason this feels like a video game is that there's
• 39:32
  there's like a puzzle to figure out, isn't it?
• 39:34
  To get out of it? Yeah.
• 39:36
  Yeah. I really like those things.
• 39:38
  Again, I feel like there's a whole episode of Night, you
• 39:40
  know? Yeah, the whole website and all
• 39:43
  this. Over the course of flux, there's
• 39:46
  about 45 different Doctor Who episodes.
• 39:51
  It's true, it's true. See, Claire's another character
• 39:56
  that I think she's absolutely, perfectly serviceable, but she
• 40:03
  doesn't really come to much, you know?
• 40:08
  I mean. I don't think there's anything
• 40:10
  wrong with just having characters along for the
• 40:11
  adventure. No, exactly.
• 40:15
  I'm not. As you say, they're serviceable.
• 40:17
  They play their parts in the plots like this, ties back
• 40:20
  nicely to Village of Angels in terms of their psychic abilities
• 40:22
  and stuff. And I think that's all unique
• 40:23
  from them, like. I'm invested enough in these
• 40:27
  characters that if either of them die, and indeed when one of
• 40:30
  them does, I give a shit. And I think the problem is, is
• 40:33
  if you don't care. Like Doctor Who fans were up in
• 40:36
  arms about the death of Jericho. But yeah, at the same time going
• 40:39
  on, it's underused. It's obviously used enough for
• 40:42
  you to care about the death. Yeah, and I think Jericho was
• 40:46
  one of the most popular characters in this.
• 40:49
  What a surprise. An old white man.
• 40:54
  I've heard really positive things about Bell as well.
• 40:59
  Yeah, no, I think. I think people generally are
• 41:01
  very positive about Bell and Vinder.
• 41:03
  But as always, we talk to who fans like.
• 41:04
  Well, why can there be Captain Jack and you know, Gwen?
• 41:09
  An unsatisfied Doctor Who fan? You absolutely struck me.
• 41:14
  Yeah, I really love those Sontara and Spaceship Science as
• 41:17
  well. What about?
• 41:22
  That's great podcasting I'm using.
• 41:24
  The claws. Like.
• 41:26
  Claws. When it's on a purge, a bit like
• 41:28
  the Jaguar ship, you know? But it's the same design as the
• 41:31
  one in the Sumitarum, isn't it? I think so, yeah.
• 41:37
  Like they've kept it universal since since then.
• 41:42
  We just couldn't afford to have them landing on a planet back
• 41:44
  then, you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 41:46
  Now, all over Liverpool. What do you feel the difference?
• 41:50
  Is that CGI just come on to a point that it's very cheap to do
• 41:53
  it impressively now? Yes.
• 41:55
  I mean, yeah, like it's just basically once technology is
• 42:00
  created, it takes a lot of money to go into creating the
• 42:02
  software, but then it suddenly becomes fairly cheap.
• 42:05
  It's the labor that costs more and if the software is more
• 42:09
  intuitive and able to process things quicker, then you're able
• 42:13
  to get a lot more done. So it's just, it's just simply
• 42:16
  the advancement of technology. Cuz I know Doctor hasn't got a
• 42:19
  bigger budget than it did back in the day back in Santox.
• 42:25
  Like the Santore and strategy era.
• 42:27
  But has it got a smaller budget than?
• 42:29
  That I have been told it was shrunk.
• 42:32
  Or maybe it's just simply inflation.
• 42:34
  They get less for their money. Right.
• 42:36
  And yeah, it looks so much more impressive.
• 42:38
  Yeah, not now. They've got that Disney money.
• 42:43
  Mickey Mouse money goes far, you know.
• 42:47
  We get coming up to the bit where Jody #2 comes to rescue
• 42:51
  Jody number one, and they start having a bit of a flirt.
• 42:55
  Jody flirting with herself is peak Doctor Who.
• 43:00
  And sorry, you know that face she pulls when she says I really
• 43:04
  fancy her also and she pulls this weird face to the camera.
• 43:08
  I could just see every person that hates her doctor.
• 43:11
  Just infuriated. About that face.
• 43:14
  And I know, but I could imagine all of the new series doctors do
• 43:18
  it flirting with themselves. Oh, Peter Capaldi.
• 43:21
  Yeah, even Peter Capaldi Series 10.
• 43:25
  Peter Capaldi rather than Series 8 or 9, but.
• 43:31
  He's got a sort of distinguished look about him, whereas Jody
• 43:36
  whiskers gorgeous, so yeah. In fact, there is a fact, You
• 43:41
  know that between you and Luke Malloy, you've been making me
• 43:43
  look at so many gorgeous women lately.
• 43:45
  I feel like I'm on the turn. I've been looking at Karen
• 43:48
  Gillen, Jenner Coleman, Jodie Whittaker.
• 43:51
  Well, I think. I think Jodie Whittaker is
• 43:54
  probably the second hottest Doctor Who after replacement.
• 43:59
  Not David Tennant too. I mean, shoot a Gabba.
• 44:03
  Possibly the hottest Doctor ever.
• 44:06
  God sakes, Yeah, but Jesus, stop posting pictures in your
• 44:08
  knickers alright? I do not need to see the
• 44:12
  doctor's cock. The Cock of the Doctor is the
• 44:18
  70th Anniversary special. I'm there for it, that we've
• 44:23
  already established that I'm the rudest person alive.
• 44:25
  But I don't like it. Doctor Who?
• 44:28
  Can I ask you about that Tigney Tech?
• 44:30
  Yeah, Tamagotchi. Is it the baby talking to her?
• 44:34
  I think it is, yeah. I think it's it's almost like a
• 44:37
  little bit of, like weird AI interface with her unborn baby.
• 44:41
  Now that may seem impossible to you out there, guys, but we
• 44:45
  don't know that Bell and Vinder are human, do we?
• 44:47
  We? Don't Also science fiction.
• 44:50
  Yeah, yeah, but they're humanoid so.
• 44:52
  But so their babies could be way more advanced when they're in
• 44:55
  the womb. Oh, this is great.
• 44:57
  We're doing the reversal of the scene in the Halloween
• 44:59
  apocalypse where you had Dan in the cell and Carl Vanista in
• 45:03
  charge. Now it's the other way around.
• 45:07
  He mentions that guru and goes, oh, he was right, fetch you.
• 45:12
  So don't you tell me Chipnel can't remember things.
• 45:14
  Exactly. Now the TARDIS is still a bit of
• 45:18
  a mess, isn't it? Yeah, Do you know?
• 45:21
  And as I was watching this, I was like.
• 45:24
  It looks like sort of that Tom Baker end of season look, you
• 45:29
  know, it's like a bit tatty. Yeah, nobody's given a jolly
• 45:34
  good scrub down in between stories.
• 45:36
  Was there ever an explanation as to why the TARDIS has been
• 45:39
  affected like this? No, I think it's just meant to
• 45:42
  be that how the flux affects the universe.
• 45:45
  And I mean, we get a lovely little payoff for it in the next
• 45:49
  story, don't they? Purely for the excuse to have
• 45:52
  them coming up for the floor and stuff like that, I really get
• 45:55
  because it's such a fun visual. Why would they ever join up with
• 45:59
  the Daleks and assignment? Yeah, there is a Terrence
• 46:02
  Dickens novel called Warmonger, yes, where everyone joins up
• 46:06
  together. The 5th Doctor.
• 46:08
  Weirdly, it was supposed to be a 6th Doctor novel, but no, they
• 46:11
  they said we want the 5th Doctor in it.
• 46:14
  He's becomes the war monger and tries to bring together all of
• 46:17
  these great races of Very Strange.
• 46:20
  I've never read it, but I've heard it's terrible.
• 46:22
  It's awful. He has a line like fetch me a
• 46:26
  rapier and something else and a knife.
• 46:29
  Just that's what lines you can imagine Peter Davidson saying
• 46:34
  this approach when you've got all the villains trying to stab
• 46:36
  each other in the back. And it's.
• 46:40
  It's very clever, utilizing the Suntar and the sort of the
• 46:44
  linchpin of this, but you know, they're masters of finding
• 46:48
  opportunity to exploit their enemies.
• 46:50
  Well, their first opportunity was to invade the Earth when the
• 46:52
  Flux appeared, wasn't it? Yeah.
• 46:55
  And now they're like, generally what we've got.
• 46:56
  Yeah, look, we've got a great way of getting rid of all the
• 46:59
  enemies of the place in one go. But once again, you're left
• 47:04
  with. What happens once everybody's
• 47:06
  dead and it's just sometimes they just turn on each other,
• 47:09
  right? That's right.
• 47:11
  Well, and you know, I can imagine another reason people
• 47:14
  hate this so much is because if you don't like a female doctor
• 47:16
  where you just had three jodies on the screen together, it's
• 47:20
  like rubbing your face in it. I mean, if you don't like a
• 47:24
  doctor in general, having more than one of them is an issue
• 47:27
  like I've imagined. There are people out there who
• 47:29
  don't like journeys in because it's got 2 David Tennants being
• 47:31
  very cocky in it. I'm not one of those people.
• 47:35
  One of them is naked. It's funny, you know, we had
• 47:39
  David Tennant naked. We had Matt Smith naked.
• 47:44
  Yeah, we never had Jody Whitaker naked, did we?
• 47:46
  I think there's probably a reason for.
• 47:50
  That and we never had Peter called you naked either.
• 47:52
  No. There's only a reason for that.
• 47:54
  Have we demanded more nudity in our Doctor Who?
• 47:56
  No, thank you. It's like that singing time with
• 47:59
  the Doctor. Short of Rio with the Sontar and
• 48:05
  ships in it. Yeah, again, just selling the
• 48:07
  worldwide element from it. It's so easy to do and I know
• 48:10
  Rusty Davis used to do this a lot, but again, cuz the CGI CGI
• 48:14
  has got better. You're just left with these
• 48:16
  stunning images of Sontar and ships in all these different
• 48:19
  cities. I don't know why, it just feels
• 48:22
  real. I don't know if it's for the
• 48:23
  lighting that they're using. I'm not sure what it is.
• 48:27
  Do you know what was it you when we were watching The Impossible
• 48:29
  Astrodol, that that was the best looking Doctor Who's ever been?
• 48:32
  I'm swinging back and forth, you know, between Series 6 and the
• 48:36
  Flux season. But I mean, series six was the
• 48:38
  best it ever looked at the time, and then this is the best it's
• 48:41
  ever looked now. And I'm sure in a season's time
• 48:43
  we'll be going well. This is the best Doctor Who's
• 48:45
  ever looked in the new series. In terms of so I think visual
• 48:48
  effects, this is the best it's ever looked in terms of sort of
• 48:52
  photography, yeah. Maybe Sirius Six, as best as
• 48:55
  ever, learned this is a weird landscape with all that sort of
• 49:00
  ash going up in slow motion. And it's just a green screen,
• 49:04
  like again, playing to the kind of the needs of the era, but
• 49:07
  it's just done so well. And it's the fact that you've
• 49:11
  got a full as well as sort of a background that just helps sell
• 49:15
  it more. Oh, there's a lovely moment here
• 49:18
  as well, where Bell and Vinder are reunited.
• 49:21
  Yeah, so within all the sort of chaos.
• 49:24
  There is the beats, isn't there? Like the emotion?
• 49:26
  Exactly. I mean, again, people will
• 49:29
  ignore these moments because that's what Doctor Who fans do
• 49:33
  if they've got an agenda. People object because it is just
• 49:38
  this era. Yeah, and she Bell plays it
• 49:42
  lovely when she knows she's about to see vendor again, like
• 49:44
  if she's been doing it for about 30 seconds now and you can see
• 49:47
  like the anticipation and an excitement that she's about to
• 49:50
  see. And I like how what the fella's
• 49:54
  name, He plays Linda. Jacob.
• 49:57
  Anderson Yeah, I like the way he he gets a very cheesy line
• 50:01
  about, well, we better make sure the universe survives it or
• 50:04
  something like that. But he underplays it.
• 50:06
  I thought that line could have been pure cheese.
• 50:08
  Yeah, but I mean. Can you explain this thing in a
• 50:13
  minute? Who is this guy?
• 50:16
  I would suggest that. There's a deleted scene
• 50:19
  somewhere with this guy who is a UNIT operative of some sort.
• 50:23
  Cuz it is totally random in the episode and he just looks like
• 50:28
  some fella from the production crew.
• 50:30
  They just said can you say the lines please?
• 50:34
  Yeah, no, it's a bit odd, but it serves a purpose.
• 50:39
  But perhaps. Do you know what would have been
• 50:42
  better? If it was just somebody in like
• 50:44
  an Army uniform or something like that and you would have got
• 50:46
  but it was somehow related to Stuart.
• 50:48
  We don't know how quickly this is being made, do we?
• 50:51
  Under what circumstances? Retro temple manifestations
• 50:57
  Dylan. Yeah, yeah.
• 51:01
  Exactly that line. Can you not say things if they
• 51:04
  make sense to us? Please.
• 51:08
  But The thing is the the techno Babble is a way of explaining
• 51:11
  things without explaining things, isn't it?
• 51:13
  And then by commenting on it, you sort of.
• 51:15
  It just adds to the enjoyment of the episode.
• 51:18
  It all depends on how good you are writing techno Babble
• 51:21
  though. Yeah, you've got sort of mid
• 51:24
  Ericsson war techno Babble. Which is interminable.
• 51:28
  Or you've got the sort of Douglas Adams, who take about
• 51:30
  all that just rolls off the tongue.
• 51:32
  Yeah, which I think this is probably more akin to.
• 51:34
  I mean, Christopher H bid. Mead will always be the king of
• 51:38
  terrible technoval, even if he believes it makes sense because
• 51:41
  it's got some real science words in it.
• 51:43
  It's like you've got a magazine about 1980s computers, but that
• 51:48
  must be where doctors should draw it all its influences from.
• 51:51
  You remember when we did the intro to this episode twice?
• 51:54
  We were stuck in a chronic hysteresis there.
• 51:59
  Oh, there's Mr. Root. I don't know what that horrible
• 52:01
  looking drink is he's trying to give her.
• 52:03
  Looks delicious. It's green with hair in it.
• 52:05
  That's. Probably a lovely cocktail.
• 52:09
  Space cocktails, hey. Yeah.
• 52:12
  Oh, here we go. There's that mouse from eBay
• 52:14
  again. Wish.com, not eBay that.
• 52:19
  Was it wish? I'll buy one.
• 52:23
  We should all get one. I do really like the fact that
• 52:27
  the solution to the flux problem, if you pay attention
• 52:31
  enough, a lot of people are going, you know, how the hell
• 52:33
  did they get out of that? It's supposed to be chewing up
• 52:34
  the universe. They explained very clearly that
• 52:38
  the armies, those massive armies will like, suck up a lot of the
• 52:42
  flux energy and then whatever's left.
• 52:45
  Passenger sucks out like a big Hoover.
• 52:47
  Exactly. Passengers suck anything up,
• 52:49
  won't they look at him? So now we've got a Journey's End
• 52:56
  style TARDIS here, crammed full of people.
• 52:58
  Yeah. And yet, they're all great
• 53:00
  characters. Yeah, and you know, you don't
• 53:02
  quite get the the moment of free magic and looking at the camera
• 53:06
  and everybody stuff around the cock sucker, do you?
• 53:09
  Like that bit. I like the bit where she froze
• 53:13
  off thingy from Captain Jack. Don't know.
• 53:20
  I'm carve. This has got nobody.
• 53:22
  Or I'll carve this day. You should have gone with the
• 53:24
  Doctor again. I could have done the carve and
• 53:27
  Easter been in the last couple of Jodie episodes.
• 53:31
  Yeah, I could have done something like that as well.
• 53:33
  Literally as a companion, you mean?
• 53:34
  Yeah, why not? He's got nowhere to go.
• 53:38
  He could have blown off the Daleks for that stuff, and even
• 53:40
  the Daleks, couldn't he? Yeah, and anyone would have
• 53:43
  lived up legends of the Sea Devils.
• 53:46
  I want to revisit Legend of the Sea Devils at some point and see
• 53:50
  figure out whether it is as bad as everybody says it was, and I
• 53:52
  remember it being. Once was a ship.
• 53:55
  I'll tell you this, the name. Would you remember that?
• 53:57
  I'm so excited after that. I thought that was the best
• 53:59
  trailer that I had. So what's Kate Stewart up to
• 54:05
  here? I don't think she gets too much
• 54:09
  to do, does she? No, Kate, like as much as I'm
• 54:13
  not a big fan, is possibly slightly the underutilized
• 54:17
  element here. But you know.
• 54:20
  Maybe that's why you like it. It's true.
• 54:22
  But she's about to put UNIT back on the map, isn't she?
• 54:24
  The moment? Yeah, Grand Serpent's been
• 54:28
  dispatched. I'm really pleased actually.
• 54:30
  We had the sort of big unit story for Jody's Dr. in
• 54:34
  parallel, so. Me too.
• 54:38
  It sort of looks more that the action is more muscular than
• 54:42
  ever, but those siblings stomping around.
• 54:46
  I still don't know where Osgood is and why they're not bringing
• 54:48
  back Osgood in any of these Unit stories.
• 54:52
  Sure, she's married that fellow from Pointless.
• 54:53
  Now she don't need the money. I'm not done in that scarf for
• 54:57
  any less than two million. No, no, I couldn't bear it, you
• 55:02
  know, because like I said, there's so many efforts to make
• 55:06
  her look like a Doctor Who fan. Where would it end?
• 55:09
  Well, I mean, maybe she'd get a lovely tshirt like Jodie's
• 55:13
  wearing hair. You've got an animatronic Fifi
• 55:15
  on your shoulder. I just always liked her.
• 55:19
  She was only created because Lee Evans wasn't available to
• 55:22
  reprise his role as Malcolm. Is that right?
• 55:25
  Yeah. That's who they wanted in the
• 55:27
  Day of the Doctor. See, I quite like Lee Evans in.
• 55:30
  Planet. Yeah.
• 55:30
  I mean, he's all right, isn't? It, yeah.
• 55:32
  Basically, if you're a UNIT scientific advisor, you have to
• 55:35
  be obsessed with the doctor. It's the rules.
• 55:37
  But she was great as well, and she certainly liven up any scene
• 55:40
  with Kate Stewart in it. Yeah, because she had a bit of
• 55:42
  personality. So the doctor had a choice
• 55:46
  there. They said, what are you going to
• 55:47
  go along with this crazy plan that they're going to do to, you
• 55:50
  know, to wipe out or you're going to stop it?
• 55:53
  And she goes, no, my plan's even riskier than that.
• 55:56
  She's going to let that plan go ahead.
• 55:58
  So she's going to allow two genocides to happen, and then
• 56:00
  she's going to be responsible for the third one.
• 56:04
  So does that mean in terms of body count, the 13th Doctor is
• 56:08
  sort of, you know, I mean, she's.
• 56:10
  She's up there with the biggies. I'm trying to think which other
• 56:14
  doctors have got high body cancer.
• 56:16
  Well, the 6th Doctor took out the verboids.
• 56:18
  Yeah, but there was only like 10 of them.
• 56:20
  The 7th Doctor took out scar row until it came back in the new
• 56:23
  series. With all the files on it.
• 56:26
  Oh yeah, he's a bad man. We can't hear it.
• 56:31
  But the music in these oh. Yeah, second-half and over.
• 56:35
  The score is in general in this series are just phenomenal.
• 56:38
  But he kind of brings in a lot of the scores for this.
• 56:41
  This is my most listened to track from the Flux Season
• 56:46
  soundtrack. It's called The Ultimate
• 56:48
  Betrayal and I would sing it for you, but you know.
• 56:52
  It's on your sexy playlist. Fuck to that music.
• 56:57
  It's real. It's thrust like that to it.
• 57:03
  Oh. The special effects in a minute
• 57:06
  where the Sontara gets sucked out into space.
• 57:08
  I know I said. Did you ever think Doctor Who
• 57:11
  would come on visuals like that? But.
• 57:13
  I never thought I'd see a Sontara and get sucked off.
• 57:18
  For once, I was being innocent. Do sontaras have genitalia?
• 57:23
  I don't want to think about that.
• 57:26
  Look at their faces you don't want to think about.
• 57:29
  That. Look, they will still take an
• 57:32
  out Sontara. That's what she does.
• 57:35
  She's a proactive action hero, all while pregnant.
• 57:40
  Do you reckon when the show comes back it's gonna be a lot
• 57:43
  slower than this? I don't think it's gonna be.
• 57:46
  I don't think it's gonna be too much slower.
• 57:49
  Maybe a tad, but not a huge amount.
• 57:53
  And then we get the Daleks and the Cybermen showing up.
• 57:56
  See, like in stuff like Time with the Doctor, you know, when
• 57:59
  they're sort of making cameos, the Daleks and Simon in the
• 58:01
  pretiles of that. I really objected to that.
• 58:04
  I was like, oh, we're just using these sort of throwaway monsters
• 58:07
  now in the odd scene, I mean. We've been using them for that
• 58:10
  for years, haven't we? But this where is the
• 58:13
  culmination of the season and you have a massive army coming
• 58:16
  in. This is how you do it, yeah.
• 58:21
  I just love it when they all start panicking.
• 58:23
  What's going on? Look at this.
• 58:29
  This is fucking epic. And whoever thought Doctor Who
• 58:32
  would look like this? And they're sort of blowing up
• 58:36
  like Big Green Mushrooms. I know I love that the Dalek
• 58:39
  Saucer has got a slight sort of redesign, but it's still
• 58:42
  recognizably them. But I do love the illuminous
• 58:44
  green on them. I want to ask you, what did your
• 58:49
  brother think of this? He loved it.
• 58:52
  You're include because when you mentioned him in series six, he
• 58:55
  said he wasn't so keen on that one.
• 58:57
  No, but yeah, he was. I mean I think he felt like most
• 59:00
  people that he enjoyed the ride and perhaps the conclusion
• 59:05
  wasn't entirely satisfactory, but generally I think he's he's
• 59:09
  very positive on this and the whistle career as a whole.
• 59:12
  I think we we both were at the time when it wasn't even cool to
• 59:16
  be. Yeah.
• 59:18
  Sometimes I feel like, you know, I'm just reactionary, you know?
• 59:20
  No one else likes it. So I'm determined to love it.
• 59:23
  Well, no, no, I've re watched this with you.
• 59:25
  And no, I just love it. No, no, that's what I mean.
• 59:27
  It's like it's you, you can be a bit like that, but it is just
• 59:32
  very, very good isn't it? Like it's just a real ripping
• 59:36
  you on a big action filled Doctor Who story.
• 59:39
  There was a special effects sequence there, right where the
• 59:42
  Santorin and no the sorry Simon and Dalek ships were.
• 59:46
  Blowing up and the camera sort of swings this way.
• 59:49
  I'm going to say camera, and you know what I mean?
• 59:51
  It's a special effect to the Lupari ships reforming into that
• 59:55
  shield. It looks so good.
• 1:00:00
  I mean, this just looks like I just.
• 1:00:04
  I said it earlier, but you? I never expected Doctor Who to
• 1:00:06
  look this good. Ever.
• 1:00:09
  I mean, it's basically a movie, isn't it?
• 1:00:12
  Huge fleets of ships. And huge explosion.
• 1:00:17
  And it's just big tent scifi. And something like when I
• 1:00:22
  watched Series 11, I just never imagined that we would be
• 1:00:27
  heading here. That felt a lot slower and a lot
• 1:00:33
  more sort of thoughtful. Yeah, it's it's so weird in
• 1:00:37
  three seasons to resource with from this this slower paced
• 1:00:41
  Doctor Who for Sunday night to. Big action and sci-fi stories
• 1:00:46
  spread across all of space and time.
• 1:00:50
  And then there's sort of stuff like that sequence at the
• 1:00:53
  beginning of Power, the Doctor on that train and stuff like
• 1:00:57
  that. Here we go.
• 1:00:59
  RIP, Jericho. It's an awfully big adventure.
• 1:01:07
  I saw eustatious Jericho, scourge of scoundrels, I say.
• 1:01:15
  You can see why people like him. Yeah, because he's a classic
• 1:01:18
  Doctor Who character in the new series.
• 1:01:21
  But also as well, I think it's a lot down to Kevin McNally as
• 1:01:24
  well. Yeah, he's warm and likeable.
• 1:01:30
  There's the Sometime we're about to get sucked off as we are,
• 1:01:33
  it's. Fabulous.
• 1:01:38
  Such an impressive effect, I. Think I just I can't imagine how
• 1:01:41
  much this cost. And even at this point you're
• 1:01:44
  going, how is how is it going to stop it from destroying the
• 1:01:47
  Earth and the Lapari ships and everything like that?
• 1:01:49
  I know the Lapari ships are a shield, but and the Doctor
• 1:01:53
  obviously pulls out the bag, otherwise it wouldn't be Doctor
• 1:01:55
  Who. And we're only here, are we?
• 1:01:59
  Because this is the final flux event, isn't it?
• 1:02:02
  Like Earth is like the last target, Is that right?
• 1:02:06
  And they only know that because Claire was lashed up to that
• 1:02:09
  psychic command and to identify where that was.
• 1:02:13
  And that's when the sun tires knew where to make that stand
• 1:02:15
  against the others. See, it all makes sense it all.
• 1:02:18
  Makes sense. It's all there.
• 1:02:20
  There he is. Come on now, get sucking.
• 1:02:27
  So what's all that flux energy doing inside and sort of
• 1:02:29
  floating around those landscapes?
• 1:02:32
  Yeah, I think so. Like and destroying anybody
• 1:02:35
  that's inside him, I would imagine.
• 1:02:36
  Is it time they reverse that? I think it must be right All
• 1:02:42
  like Atropros and stuff like that reeks to me as sort of Time
• 1:02:46
  Lord stuff. Was this the sequences here on
• 1:02:49
  Atropros where you said you thought the visual effects
• 1:02:52
  didn't hold? No, I don't think it was.
• 1:02:56
  Did I say that I'm an idiot? Don't listen to me.
• 1:03:01
  I talk about. This you're not an idiot, and
• 1:03:07
  this is this is the big obviously this is the big
• 1:03:09
  confrontation with sorman issue, which you do need because they
• 1:03:13
  have, in this time finally makes its presence felt.
• 1:03:20
  Like it did in the New Adventures.
• 1:03:23
  Yeah, and obviously we get the I think every Doctor's had this,
• 1:03:30
  hasn't they? The portent of the regeneration
• 1:03:33
  to come. Yeah, I mean, it just has to
• 1:03:35
  happen these days. But I love that she plays that.
• 1:03:40
  Jodie Whitaker plays that role. Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  You know, everything has its time.
• 1:03:47
  And there they go. They've gone.
• 1:03:49
  RIP those guys. Do you think she should have
• 1:03:51
  opened the watch? No, I think I would love to see
• 1:03:56
  a bit in the future where maybe she opens a bit of it or, but I
• 1:04:00
  never want to know the full history of the Doctor.
• 1:04:03
  Never. So do you think this was judged
• 1:04:06
  well then, like giving us enough suggesting the mystery?
• 1:04:11
  It's essentially what Andrew Carmel did in the 7th Doctor
• 1:04:14
  area. It's exactly that.
• 1:04:15
  It's adding far more than just another Time Lord, which we now
• 1:04:19
  know is I love the way Jody plays time, though.
• 1:04:22
  Like, you look at that. She's giving two completely
• 1:04:24
  different performances. It's in the eyes more than
• 1:04:27
  anything. I think it's in our body
• 1:04:28
  language as well, like our doctor is all a bit awkward in
• 1:04:32
  arms and legs, whereas she's just perfectly ill as time.
• 1:04:39
  But no, I don't think we need to.
• 1:04:41
  Adele too much into the Doctor's past.
• 1:04:43
  I'm all for seeing more of the Doctor's past, as they did by
• 1:04:46
  the time as children, by creating more mystery.
• 1:04:50
  But no, I don't need to know it all.
• 1:04:52
  You could argue this, but I think Cartmell is quoted as
• 1:04:56
  saying. That he wanted to add the
• 1:04:59
  mystery of the Doctor because too much was said about the
• 1:05:01
  Doctor and the continuity in the Sword era, and I think Chibna
• 1:05:05
  was reacting to how much was told about the Doctor in the
• 1:05:09
  Moffett era. Absolutely.
• 1:05:10
  That's that's exactly what I think.
• 1:05:12
  Like, we learned so much about the Doctor, like we see him
• 1:05:15
  depart Gallifrey. There's all talk of why he
• 1:05:18
  departs Gallifrey. We see the Doctor as a kid and
• 1:05:19
  this just goes on. There's so much more.
• 1:05:24
  Thank God, and I do. I hope they do explore some of
• 1:05:27
  that. Big Finish.
• 1:05:31
  I'd be finished. I'd do it.
• 1:05:32
  I hope somebody better. OK, look, we're Oh yeah, we're
• 1:05:40
  sorry we got to deal with the Grand Serpent as well.
• 1:05:41
  I do not get left on that asteroid.
• 1:05:45
  Ready to show up again should we need him?
• 1:05:48
  And it's very satisfying that Vinder gets to do it.
• 1:05:51
  He's the 1:00 to put him into exile.
• 1:05:53
  Yeah, he's get he's getting his own back.
• 1:05:56
  I have a boxing I'm waiting for, you know, a dangling Fred, you
• 1:05:59
  know, that isn't dealt with. But I'm so far I'm quite
• 1:06:01
  satisfied. Yeah, well, I'm, I'm glad you're
• 1:06:04
  satisfied, but. Satisfied.
• 1:06:07
  When I'll talk to you, you know. But yeah, I know that so far
• 1:06:12
  there isn't really any dangling. Oh God. 00 Dear It's just carry
• 1:06:23
  on all the way. They need to do a whole effect
• 1:06:29
  sequence for this as well. Yeah, and.
• 1:06:32
  CGI boys must have been like for fuck's sake, anything else?
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, I'm sure they were just happy for the work.
• 1:06:39
  But you know, you're using most of your location budget on the
• 1:06:42
  CGI on this probably because you know it's not, there's so many,
• 1:06:47
  you know, we're not outside and awful lot in it, are we?
• 1:06:51
  It's all in a studio that. It's what makes a lot of War of
• 1:06:55
  the Suntar, and so satisfying, isn't it?
• 1:06:57
  Is there's a lot of location work in that one.
• 1:07:00
  Exactly. Which is nice, But then I think
• 1:07:03
  that's why even though there is more money in the Rossi Davis
• 1:07:06
  seasons coming up, it's obviously they will be filming
• 1:07:09
  more outside. So I'm wondering if it will have
• 1:07:11
  the weirdness of this, because it was they had to do it, you
• 1:07:15
  know? I don't think Doctor Who will
• 1:07:17
  ever quite look as weird again and in a way, although.
• 1:07:22
  There was a there was a leaked image of a set from the next
• 1:07:25
  season of Doctor Who, like an alien set that came out months
• 1:07:28
  ago, and it did look very peculiar.
• 1:07:34
  We're doing also a Return of the King goodbyes to everyone.
• 1:07:37
  Yeah, well, you've got to, like in a normal Doctor Who story,
• 1:07:41
  you get, you know, a minute at the end to say goodbye to
• 1:07:44
  everybody. But we've got so many characters
• 1:07:45
  that have all had been on such an adventure.
• 1:07:47
  You kind of need a little bit of an extended, you know?
• 1:07:50
  Goodbye. Bill and Vinda and Calvinista
• 1:07:55
  are often to have their own space adventures.
• 1:07:59
  Is Claire just going home? She's going back to her normal
• 1:08:01
  life. Who knows what Claire did before
• 1:08:03
  or after, but she's back at that.
• 1:08:06
  So yeah, people are objected to this as well that.
• 1:08:10
  Doesn't just want to pick up where she left off or actually
• 1:08:12
  a. Traumatic experience.
• 1:08:14
  And he did stand her up. I don't know about you, but I'll
• 1:08:19
  be unforgiving. But well, I mean, she does.
• 1:08:22
  Towards the end of the Legend of the Sea Devils.
• 1:08:24
  He has a chapter, doesn't he? Yes, I'm assuming in power of
• 1:08:29
  the Doctor. When he goes back, you know they
• 1:08:31
  eventually get that date. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised
• 1:08:34
  again if there was a deleted scene there where he gets his
• 1:08:36
  little sort of. You know, even if it's just not
• 1:08:40
  with her, but just a moment when he meets up with Graham is like,
• 1:08:43
  Oh yeah, I just left die at home or something like that.
• 1:08:45
  That just got trimmed for timing reasons.
• 1:08:50
  That's vast. Somewhere in Liverpool.
• 1:08:53
  Wouldn't it? And now he's obviously got to
• 1:08:54
  make the choice. That's whoever he's going to go
• 1:08:56
  on. They always determined to do
• 1:08:57
  this, aren't they? To give their companions a
• 1:09:00
  choice scene. You want to travel in the TARDIS
• 1:09:03
  or not? Consent is key and it's not for
• 1:09:06
  everybody, That lifestyle in the TARDIS.
• 1:09:08
  There was a wonderful I watched the other day a wonderful thing
• 1:09:11
  about Jodie Whittaker and she lists her thirteen favorite
• 1:09:16
  moments. One of them is that bit by the
• 1:09:19
  docks. There she goes, ah, me, man Dip
• 1:09:22
  and John Bishop. And there was this whole crowd
• 1:09:24
  of people and man dip and I were like, ah, we're so famous these
• 1:09:28
  days, she goes. Not one of them was there for
• 1:09:31
  me. And Man dip Bishop, it's so
• 1:09:34
  massive in Liverpool they were all there for.
• 1:09:36
  Hills. He's a local hero.
• 1:09:39
  Yeah, bless her heart. Local fucking.
• 1:09:41
  Here Ryan, there we have Yas is and she does this quite a bit as
• 1:09:52
  well. Her objections to the doctor
• 1:09:54
  sort of shutting her out and. So lovely.
• 1:09:59
  Like beautifully played though. I think like the one thing.
• 1:10:05
  You just hear again and again for the pair of them, it's just
• 1:10:08
  how much they love working with each other, yeah.
• 1:10:12
  Would you like to see them work together in something else?
• 1:10:15
  Would you think it'd be too distracting?
• 1:10:16
  And I think it would be interesting to see, yeah.
• 1:10:19
  Well, build bags, if you're listening.
• 1:10:20
  You love recasting characters in different parts.
• 1:10:26
  Let's get them together. The air zone solution too with
• 1:10:30
  these two in it. I feel like they could have had
• 1:10:32
  a moment here, you know? If Dan didn't.
• 1:10:34
  You're in there at the end of the scene.
• 1:10:36
  I think it was implied enough. I think you get.
• 1:10:38
  I think you get enough kind of affection between them.
• 1:10:43
  I. Still, you know, we said this,
• 1:10:45
  but I still wish we'd have that kiss, so.
• 1:10:47
  Yeah, me too. Just that bit on the TARDIS with
• 1:10:49
  the ice cream there. Yeah.
• 1:10:53
  Never mind, it wasn't to be. And now we get rid of the pocket
• 1:10:57
  watch. The hell is that?
• 1:11:01
  Plastic ball. Just a bit of gubbins on the
• 1:11:04
  TARDIS in it. Gubbins, don't you call me a
• 1:11:07
  classic dog tree? It's a cool shot though, isn't
• 1:11:12
  it? From inside the tarvis console.
• 1:11:16
  And I love the fact that you can just trust the tarvis to get rid
• 1:11:19
  of it. Do.
• 1:11:20
  You know what excites me? Even though, you know, we're
• 1:11:22
  just at the end of this terribly exciting adventure and you got
• 1:11:26
  even the Daleks next. I know, it's an absolute blast.
• 1:11:32
  I love that one. Did you say you knew the
• 1:11:33
  director of that one or yes? Yeah, I worked with her when she
• 1:11:35
  was a script supervisor. And I yeah, I dropped her little
• 1:11:40
  line after the episode. Going well done.
• 1:11:43
  I can just see those doctors watching her throw that.
• 1:11:47
  Yeah. Into the console, go.
• 1:11:49
  Seedy, yeah, but also mad. Would have been mad if we'd seen
• 1:11:54
  every past Life of the Doctor. Yeah, you cannot win.
• 1:11:59
  No, absolutely. And I think Chipel knows what
• 1:12:02
  he's doing with stuff like that. He knows that's going to be
• 1:12:05
  divisive. He must.
• 1:12:07
  Of course he does, but it's all about telling the best story at
• 1:12:09
  the time and that, and that is the best possible resolution for
• 1:12:13
  it, I think. You know when the value was
• 1:12:15
  revealed in So I keep bringing up trial of the Time Lord, but
• 1:12:18
  in Ultimate Foe, you know he was that fan going what?
• 1:12:21
  What the hell is this? Yeah, but you know, we're all
• 1:12:24
  idiots when we're younger, aren't we?
• 1:12:26
  I'm an idiot now. Poor old Chris.
• 1:12:30
  I do feel sorry for Chris Chibnall having that bit of
• 1:12:32
  footage of him on Right to Reply, when it's just the most
• 1:12:36
  unfortunate thing that a a Doctor Who showrunner could
• 1:12:41
  have. I love it when we cut the Pip
• 1:12:43
  and Jane Baker going. Well, I think they're all a bit
• 1:12:45
  ungrateful. You know, I like to think of Pip
• 1:12:49
  and Jane up in heaven looking down at Chris Chibnall.
• 1:12:52
  The hell we've had the last five.
• 1:12:59
  Well, look, we're at the end of about 500 hours of.
• 1:13:05
  We've royally fluxed. We have, and it was an intensely
• 1:13:09
  satisfying experience. But you know what we've got to
• 1:13:12
  do now? It's not 400 favorite things.
• 1:13:18
  How many are we doing? You choose.
• 1:13:22
  I mean, should we go for? Why don't we pick?
• 1:13:26
  I could do loads, so you choose. Let's do let's do 4, because
• 1:13:31
  that's eight in total. All right.
• 1:13:33
  Does that feel good for you? It always feels good.
• 1:13:39
  Take your finger out right? Do you want to go first?
• 1:13:43
  Yes, I do. Why not?
• 1:13:46
  I'm going to go for. I feel like every time I talk to
• 1:13:49
  you, it's like a first date. I'm going to go for the visual
• 1:13:57
  effects. All the CGI wizardry that was
• 1:14:00
  worked wonders throughout the series.
• 1:14:03
  I just think it's. I think it's just elevated
• 1:14:06
  Doctor Who to a higher level. But I want you to highlight a
• 1:14:09
  couple in particular. Come on.
• 1:14:10
  Okay Atroprost. So it definitely wasn't me that
• 1:14:14
  said that was it. Atroprost.
• 1:14:17
  The flux energy itself hurtling towards the TARDIS and all the
• 1:14:21
  mass amounts of spaceships. Less said about those weird blue
• 1:14:25
  people on that planet. Do you remember it was the
• 1:14:29
  screen? Yeah, but I don't need it for a
• 1:14:31
  second. But that is truly terrible.
• 1:14:35
  But okay. So my first one is going to be I
• 1:14:41
  always go for the music maybe didn't I?
• 1:14:42
  But I think music is a very important part of those who for
• 1:14:45
  me second act closes score throughout.
• 1:14:48
  This is bloody brilliant. Is.
• 1:14:52
  It is brilliant and I think for all those people that found his
• 1:14:55
  music a bit ambient in series 11, he's just upped his game
• 1:15:00
  with every season. And there's a bit of music I
• 1:15:04
  want to highlight. It's it plays at the end of the
• 1:15:07
  Halloween apocalypse where we're catching up with all the
• 1:15:09
  characters as the flux energy is approaching and it's haunting
• 1:15:15
  and it gets me chills every time I hear it.
• 1:15:18
  Yeah, he is on top form and in fact, I think right through the
• 1:15:21
  power of the Doctor, he doesn't have a Duff.
• 1:15:24
  Note, not even Legend of the Sea Devils.
• 1:15:27
  I mean, no one's complaining about the music and legend of
• 1:15:29
  the Sea Devils unless they wanted Malcolm Clark School,
• 1:15:31
  which I don't know. Magic.
• 1:15:38
  OK, back to you. Right, the next one.
• 1:15:42
  I'm going to go for, I'm going to highlight the contribution of
• 1:15:45
  Chris Chippenill because I think everybody goes, Oh well, the
• 1:15:48
  episode Eco wrote or didn't write is the best one of the
• 1:15:51
  series. But I mean this has got
• 1:15:53
  everything that people criticize Chris Chippenill for not doing.
• 1:15:57
  You know, it's got great character stuff, it's got great
• 1:16:00
  humor, it's got great scifi, it's got great action.
• 1:16:03
  It's just it is like the most, it's almost like.
• 1:16:07
  Such a bold mission statement. It's almost like trying to be
• 1:16:09
  the definitive Doctor Who covering everything you can
• 1:16:12
  possibly do, and I think he pulls it off with skill and
• 1:16:15
  finesse. Oh, you said that beautifully.
• 1:16:19
  And you know, the one episode you were less keen on was the
• 1:16:21
  one that was cowritten. Exactly.
• 1:16:25
  I still think my personal favorite is more of the sum
• 1:16:29
  tolerance in this season, and I think that might be one of his
• 1:16:32
  strongest scripts in his run. Yeah, no, I think I think you're
• 1:16:36
  right. But I think every, every single
• 1:16:39
  episode has some positives for it.
• 1:16:41
  And Once Upon a time, I think it's still my favorite of the
• 1:16:45
  series after after all this. Well, they I'm sticking to it
• 1:16:51
  and it's my choice. So if anybody wants to talk to
• 1:16:54
  me about it and they haven't used up their 600 tweets or
• 1:16:57
  whatever it is they can, they can at me.
• 1:17:00
  Look, we've gone from being on the first date to being in the
• 1:17:02
  playground. It's my choice, all right?
• 1:17:06
  OK. My second choice is going to be
• 1:17:09
  Dan Lewis, Swarm and Azure Agents of Chaos.
• 1:17:16
  Fabulously designed, totally bling Monsters just introduced
• 1:17:21
  really well, and that's camp and menacing throughout.
• 1:17:26
  Beautifully active. I think some people have a lot
• 1:17:31
  of objections about the flux season.
• 1:17:33
  I think many people have objections about those two
• 1:17:36
  villains. No, I think they are.
• 1:17:38
  They rank amongst like the big villains of the new series now
• 1:17:42
  and I think in years to come I think that the sort of villains
• 1:17:46
  that at some point someone will bring them back because they're
• 1:17:49
  just irresistibly good and they're also the sort of
• 1:17:52
  villains that. Because you we saw them sort of
• 1:17:54
  regenerate at the start, that if the actors aren't available or
• 1:17:57
  something, you can just recast and do something slightly
• 1:17:59
  different with them because they're such a peculiar alien
• 1:18:03
  menace. They're so melodramatic, and I
• 1:18:07
  love melodramatic that they do a countdown for a cliffhanger and
• 1:18:14
  even gets A1 liner in just before she finishes.
• 1:18:17
  Countdown perfect. Amazing.
• 1:18:20
  Next up, I am going to choose Fadia Graham and Jacob Anderson
• 1:18:26
  as Bell and Vinder. I think they add much needed
• 1:18:32
  heart to the story. I think they are, I think they
• 1:18:37
  are funny, they are proactive. They're exactly the sort of
• 1:18:41
  characters that people say that Chris Chibnall can't write or
• 1:18:44
  never write, and they're just very compelling supporting
• 1:18:46
  characters and I'd love to see them back as well.
• 1:18:49
  I think you said to me in a previous episode that without
• 1:18:54
  them, we don't get to see the impact through the eyes of
• 1:18:58
  people that exist in this time that the flux is having, you
• 1:19:03
  know, and we get to. And the fact that they're torn
• 1:19:05
  apart. Yeah, they're great characters,
• 1:19:08
  Sexy as hell as well. Both of them.
• 1:19:12
  Exactly how many have I done? This is now my third one.
• 1:19:14
  This is your third one. My third one, then, is going to
• 1:19:19
  be the brilliant way that Chibber's highlights to of like
• 1:19:28
  the Daleks and the sidemen are usually the top tier villains.
• 1:19:32
  But he's decided in this season it's going to be the Santarens,
• 1:19:36
  and the Angels and the Santares have never been more effectively
• 1:19:41
  used. Absolutely.
• 1:19:44
  And I think this is the best use of the angels probably since
• 1:19:49
  flesh and stone and tone of angels.
• 1:19:51
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:19:52
  No, I think you're probably right.
• 1:19:54
  In fact, yes, it is 100%. But I think this is the best use
• 1:19:59
  of the suntans ever, and that's a big statement is made because
• 1:20:03
  there are a lot of stories. I would absolutely agree.
• 1:20:09
  Now I was going to say the Suntarons next, but I'm not now,
• 1:20:12
  so I'm going to say Craig Parkinson has The Grand Serpent,
• 1:20:16
  another fantastic baddie who could have had, could have been
• 1:20:20
  the Big Bad in a whole series of Doctor Who.
• 1:20:22
  And it's it is, you know, gets enough screen time and enough
• 1:20:26
  plots that he's a fantastic part of it, but it's between the
• 1:20:31
  Suntarons, between Swarm and AS and between the Grand Serpents
• 1:20:37
  you've got. Three big bags vying for vying
• 1:20:42
  for plot and they all get enough and they all get satisfactory
• 1:20:45
  resolutions and get their comeuppance.
• 1:20:47
  But in any other story you would have gone for the safe option of
• 1:20:50
  the Daleks or the Cyber Men or the Master.
• 1:20:52
  But no, Chignel's interested in creating new and interesting
• 1:20:55
  characters and I think he's fantastic giving a sort of,
• 1:20:59
  again, a subtler but still is equally melodramatic performance
• 1:21:03
  in his own way. Really great baddies in this,
• 1:21:06
  isn't it? Yeah, yeah, great villains.
• 1:21:08
  So get him off that rock and bring him back.
• 1:21:11
  Everywhere you look, someone's trying to shove a snake down
• 1:21:14
  your neck. I've got two more.
• 1:21:19
  Have you? Have you got one?
• 1:21:20
  I only got one more, but I got two more I want to say.
• 1:21:23
  Well, I mean, it's your show. You make the rules.
• 1:21:25
  Let's do five then, yeah. Do you think you can pick one
• 1:21:27
  more? I'm sure I can think of
• 1:21:28
  something. Well then, I'm going to say the
• 1:21:31
  cliffhangers. In this season, I think in terms
• 1:21:37
  of sort of modern television, the cliffhanger is very
• 1:21:39
  important these days in people back, you know, in a sort of
• 1:21:43
  binge watching they want you to do on Netflix.
• 1:21:46
  They might throw out a shunky episode but put an amazing
• 1:21:48
  ending in saying, oh shit, I've got to see how that's resolved.
• 1:21:51
  And you've got the, you know, the end of the universe episode
• 1:21:56
  one. You've got the countdown for
• 1:21:58
  episode 2 or that's sort of breath.
• 1:22:03
  It's the stop in the action, isn't it?
• 1:22:05
  For three where it's like okay we're heading into the
• 1:22:08
  second-half of the season, her turning into an Angel for four
• 1:22:12
  and then tech tae you dying for five.
• 1:22:15
  It is just one belter off for another.
• 1:22:18
  Yeah, they are. They're all brilliant
• 1:22:20
  cliffhangers and I love, love a good cliffhanger.
• 1:22:24
  I'm not sure any of the resolutions are particularly
• 1:22:26
  satisfying, but I came back next week so they worked.
• 1:22:29
  Yeah, exactly. But you would have come back
• 1:22:31
  next week if the next episode was called Joe's A Bit of a
• 1:22:34
  Dick, wouldn't you? Or The Twin or something like
• 1:22:37
  that. The sequel?
• 1:22:39
  Definitely there. For that, they could have bought
• 1:22:41
  Kevin McNally back as Hugo Lang. Yeah, they missed a trick there.
• 1:22:47
  My next one is I'm going to say. The the whole sort of production
• 1:22:53
  team and COVID team and the people who worked really hard to
• 1:22:56
  make this happen because they could have just bumped it and
• 1:23:00
  done a normal Series A year later.
• 1:23:02
  But they went, no, we're going to figure out a way to make this
• 1:23:06
  show under these circumstances and all the people that must
• 1:23:09
  have worked very, very hard in order to give us one of the
• 1:23:12
  greatest slices of Doctor Whoever.
• 1:23:16
  And the last one, and we just can't not mention Jody
• 1:23:20
  Whittaker. Who is like, not just on fire
• 1:23:25
  now? She's somewhere in the
• 1:23:26
  stratosphere. You know, she's having wonderful
• 1:23:29
  fun in the Halloween apocalypse. That's sort of the light.
• 1:23:32
  Jodie Whittaker is coming in and the mysteries are just sort of
• 1:23:35
  starting to form. I think she's at her all time
• 1:23:38
  best in the world of the Suntaras, where she's butting
• 1:23:42
  heads with the General and the Suntara Commander.
• 1:23:46
  She's getting to play several roles in Once Upon a Time.
• 1:23:50
  She gets her own gothic horror. Yeah, Village of the Angels.
• 1:23:55
  And then there's three fucking Jodie Whittakers in the last
• 1:23:58
  one. You know, if you love her
• 1:24:02
  character, then you probably should love that.
• 1:24:05
  I just don't understand how anybody can watch this series
• 1:24:09
  and whether you love or loathe this version of Doctor Who or
• 1:24:13
  think it's too fast and go, that isn't prime Doctor material
• 1:24:16
  right there. In terms of what she does with
• 1:24:18
  it and what she's given, I just think it's all, you know, it's
• 1:24:22
  all very well performed and I just think she's, she's a bloody
• 1:24:27
  legend. Funny, clever, a little bit
• 1:24:30
  flirty. And you know, she's, she's
• 1:24:33
  juggling mass genocides as well. I mean, she's got it up.
• 1:24:37
  You know what else we could possibly say about the flux
• 1:24:41
  season? I think we've said it all.
• 1:24:43
  In these six episodes. So I want to say thank you,
• 1:24:48
  because that was a hell of a thing to embark on.
• 1:24:51
  Thank you for having me. It's been an absolute hoot and
• 1:24:53
  I'm glad we got here in the end. You're recording this time,
• 1:24:58
  right? I fucking hope so.
• 1:25:01
  We've been talking for an hour and a half.
• 1:25:04
  Where are we heading next? Well, we've, we've got a couple
• 1:25:07
  of threesomes booked up, haven't we?
• 1:25:10
  What about you and I? You what have we?
• 1:25:14
  I mean, I did talk about doing Dragon Fire.
• 1:25:17
  Yeah, why that? One, I love dragon fire.
• 1:25:21
  It's got a very special place in my heart, it.
• 1:25:24
  Was your first top two-story was it?
• 1:25:25
  No, it wasn't. But I'll explain more when we do
• 1:25:29
  it. So I think that's our next just
• 1:25:31
  you and I. And then we've got a threesome
• 1:25:33
  with Luke Malloy booked for Spy Fall.
• 1:25:36
  Did we? Did we not have a threesome of
• 1:25:37
  Fraser Gregory to for the Battle of Ranspoor of Coloss?
• 1:25:41
  Yes, of course. And that's going to be an
• 1:25:44
  interesting one because I really don't like that one.
• 1:25:46
  Whereas he will always protect the underdog.
• 1:25:49
  So I imagine he's going to come in very defensively.
• 1:25:52
  What about you for that one? I I'm not a huge fan, but I
• 1:25:57
  would really like. I would relish the chance to
• 1:26:00
  pick it apart because there are bits I like of it and bits I
• 1:26:02
  don't. So it would be interesting to
• 1:26:04
  see what everybody's got to say on it.
• 1:26:06
  I certainly don't think it's the worst Doctor Who story of all
• 1:26:10
  time, which you know, gets thrown at it sometimes.
• 1:26:13
  Well, I'll tell you what. It makes my heart sing to know
• 1:26:16
  that I have got so much of you coming up in my schedules
• 1:26:21
  because I think you are one of my greatest finds.
• 1:26:24
  Well, you're you're a wonderful human and I'm very glad to be
• 1:26:27
  here. And I will talk about Doctor Who
• 1:26:29
  with you any day until we both die of old age.
• 1:26:34
  Or the Flux consumes us all. Thank you so much.
• 1:26:40
  It's been a hoot.