Latest / Murder Files Unsealed / Chilling audio of Athena Strand's final moments moves jurors to tears
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: So it's it's April sixteen, twenty twenty six, and we're
- 0:04starting right in the middle of this incredibly tense Terrent County.
- 0:08Speaker 2: Courtroom, right right in the thick of it.
- 0:09Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And the judge, Judge George Gallagher, he does
- 0:14something that you really don't see very often. He basically
- 0:17pauses this massive capital murder trial, looks out at this
- 0:21completely packed gallery and just issues this incredibly stark warning which.
- 0:26Speaker 2: Immediately changes the whole temperature of the room.
- 0:28Speaker 1: Oh completely. He literally says, if you think you cannot
- 0:31watch it or listen to it, leave now. Now's your
- 0:34time to get out.
- 0:35Speaker 2: Wow. I mean that is just that sends a chill
- 0:38down your spine just hearing it.
- 0:39Speaker 1: It really does. And you know, we're doing a deep
- 0:42dive today into the tragedy of seven year old Athenis Strand.
- 0:45But I want to warn you the listener right up front,
- 0:47just like the judge did that. The source material we're
- 0:50navigating today is incredibly heavy, it's graphic, and it's just
- 0:54well it's heartbreaking.
- 0:55Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a very rare moment where the justice system
- 0:58itself kind of drops the clinical facade. Like normally courtrooms
- 1:03are designed to filter out human tragedy, right, to make
- 1:06it procedural and manageable.
- 1:07Speaker 1: Right, all the legal jargon and the rules of.
- 1:09Speaker 2: Evidence exactly, But here the judge is essentially warning everyone
- 1:14that the evidence they're about to see just completely bypasses
- 1:17those filters. He's acknowledging the sheer, just the massive psychological
- 1:22weight of it.
- 1:23Speaker 1: And the immediate reaction in that room is so somber.
- 1:26Athena's parents, Maitland Gandhi and Jacob Strand they quietly stand up,
- 1:31and they actually leave the courtroom before the light's even.
- 1:33Speaker 2: Dim because they knew what was coming.
- 1:35Speaker 1: Yeah, they step out so they don't have to sit
- 1:37there and endure hearing the final hour of their seven
- 1:40year old daughter's life playing over the speakers, which leaves
- 1:43the jury and you know, the rest of the gallery
- 1:45sitting there in.
- 1:46Speaker 2: The dark, just waiting to face this unfiltered reality of
- 1:49what happened inside that FedEx truck back in November twenty
- 1:52twenty two exactly.
- 1:54Speaker 1: And the trial records show that the physical reaction of
- 1:56the room was just devastating. You had seasoned courtrooms, observers,
- 2:00people who process violent crimes every single day, visibly shaken,
- 2:05reaching for tissues.
- 2:06Speaker 2: Jurors weeping openly, and the judge had even cleared all
- 2:09the news cameras beforehand, which tells you a lot.
- 2:12Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't just forensic data they were about to review.
- 2:14It was the active recorded terror of a child. And
- 2:18that's really our mission for this deep dive. We aren't
- 2:20just recounting a true crime story here.
- 2:22Speaker 2: Right, There's a much bigger systemic issue at play totally.
- 2:26Speaker 1: We're examining how digital evidence impacts the modern justice system,
- 2:30how a tight knit community pursues accountability, and this incredibly
- 2:34complex legal battle happening right now over the death penalty.
- 2:38Speaker 2: Because to really understand the gravity of those tears in
- 2:41the courtroom in twenty twenty six, you kind of have
- 2:44to go back. You have to rewind to November twenty
- 2:46twenty two, to a town called Paradise, Texas.
- 2:49Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to meet the bright light right at
- 2:50the center of all this.
- 2:52Speaker 2: We have to talk about Athena, and the source material
- 2:54paints such a vivid picture of her. She was seven
- 2:56years old, living in rural Wise County, and she.
- 2:59Speaker 1: Wasn't you know, a quiet kid. In the background, she
- 3:02had this massive, vibrant personality.
- 3:05Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely huge personality. She was obsessed with the movie
- 3:08Frozen and unicorns and mermaids.
- 3:12Speaker 1: Her family said she was singing twenty four to seven.
- 3:14Just a kid who filled whatever room she was in
- 3:17with joy.
- 3:17Speaker 2: There's this one specific memory her family shared that I
- 3:20think just perfectly captures who she was. They described her
- 3:23splashing around outside in a livestock water trough.
- 3:27Speaker 1: Oh. I love that detail.
- 3:28Speaker 2: Right. But she's wearing this frilly dress and she's paired
- 3:31it with cowgirl boots, just completely surrounded by her toys.
- 3:35Speaker 1: It's just the ultimate image of childhood autonomy, Like she's
- 3:37building her own little world and doesn't care at all
- 3:40about getting dirty or what adults are worrying about exactly.
- 3:43Speaker 2: And that imming of the water trough really ties into
- 3:45the whole environment of a place like Paradise, Texas. It's
- 3:49that rural insulation.
- 3:50Speaker 1: A small town safety bubble.
- 3:52Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 3:52Speaker 1: I always think of it as a sort of geographic firewall.
- 3:55Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
- 3:56Speaker 1: People specifically move out to these semi rural areas to
- 4:00buy into this social contract. You get some acreage, you
- 4:04get away from the city, and the trade off is
- 4:07this assumed level of safety.
- 4:08Speaker 2: You let your kids run around outside and you think, well,
- 4:10the worst thing that's going to happen is a scraped knee.
- 4:12Speaker 1: Right, But how does a crime like this not just
- 4:16harm the family but fundamentally fracture that entire psychological infrastructure
- 4:20for the whole town.
- 4:21Speaker 2: Well, sociologists have a term for it. They call it
- 4:24collective efficacy. It's this belief that, you know, a neighborhood
- 4:29shares values and that people will step up and look
- 4:31out for each other, like you.
- 4:33Speaker 1: Know all the cars that drive down your dirt road exactly.
- 4:35Speaker 2: The physical distance between the houses is actually bridged by
- 4:38that trust. But when that trust is violated, the paradigm
- 4:41shift is just absolute whiplash.
- 4:43Speaker 1: And that whiplash hit On November thirtieth, twenty twenty two.
- 4:47Athena was staying with her dad, Jacob and her stepmother, Ashley,
- 4:52her biological mom Maitland lived pretty close by too.
- 4:55Speaker 2: It was right at the beginning of the Christmas season.
- 4:57A package gets dropped off at the house.
- 4:59Speaker 1: Yeah, Christmas gift. It was a set of you Can
- 5:01Be Anything Barbie dolls. And then shortly after that delivery,
- 5:05she just vanished.
- 5:06Speaker 2: And you see that collective efficacy swing into action. Instantly,
- 5:10the stepmom realizes she's gone. Sounds the alarm and boom.
- 5:14More than two hundred volunteers mobilize.
- 5:17Speaker 1: Just ordinary people out there forming search grids, walking through brush,
- 5:21checking waterways in the dark with flashlights.
- 5:24Speaker 2: But the horrifying reality it was that the safety bubble
- 5:27hadn't been pierced by some anonymous monster hiding in the woods.
- 5:31Speaker 1: No, the threat came right up to the front door.
- 5:34It came from something totally mundane and universally trusted, a
- 5:38corporate delivery truck.
- 5:39Speaker 2: Which brings us to the delivery driver, Tanner Lynn Horner.
- 5:43Speaker 1: Right, a thirty four year old contract driver who was
- 5:45doing rounds and paradise for FedEx, and when investigators first
- 5:50start talking to him, his initial story is really something
- 5:53we need to break down because.
- 5:54Speaker 2: It's a textbook example of how criminals try to deflect
- 5:57and minimize what they've done.
- 5:58Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't just come out and say kidnapped her.
- 6:00He tried to sell them on this idea that it
- 6:02was an accident.
- 6:03Speaker 2: He claimed he was backing his van out of the
- 6:05driveway and accidentally bumped into her with.
- 6:08Speaker 1: The vehicle, and he said she survived the initial bump,
- 6:12but that she told him she was going to tell
- 6:13her dad, and he claimed he just panicked, right.
- 6:16Speaker 2: He said he threw her in the back of the
- 6:17van and strangled her because he didn't want to get
- 6:19in trouble with his.
- 6:20Speaker 1: Boss, which is just I mean, the logic is incredibly warped.
- 6:24But from a legal standpoint, why do you think a
- 6:27perpetrator builds a lie around an accident like that?
- 6:31Speaker 2: Well, behavioral analysts talk about this a lot. It's called
- 6:33the kernel of truth defense.
- 6:34Speaker 1: The kernel of truth.
- 6:35Speaker 2: Yeah, he knows they are highly suspicious of him, or
- 6:39maybe he knows he's caught, so he rapidly constructs a
- 6:43narrative that involves a tiny piece of the truth that
- 6:45he interacted with a fena near the van. But then
- 6:48he wraps that truth in this fabrication of vehicular manslaughter
- 6:52and blind panic. He's trying to avoid the label of
- 6:55a calculated predator.
- 6:57Speaker 1: Because if it's an accident in a panic attack changes
- 7:00the legal stakes. It's a desperate play to dodge capital
- 7:03murder exactly.
- 7:05Speaker 2: But this is where the modern reality of corporate delivery
- 7:08fleets completely blows his story out of the water. Telematix yes,
- 7:13the telematic systems in these fleet vehicles are wildly sophisticated.
- 7:17Now it's not just a basic dash cam recording the
- 7:20road right.
- 7:21Speaker 1: The sources show these systems record breaking patterns, GPS speed,
- 7:26and crucially, they record video of both the outside and
- 7:29the inside of the cab.
- 7:30Speaker 2: Companies install them for liability and driver safety. But ironically,
- 7:34the very system designed to document an accident proved that
- 7:37an accident never happened at all.
- 7:39Speaker 1: This part is so chilling to me. The prosecution used
- 7:42the truck's own digital footprint to prove he premeditated the
- 7:45whole thing.
- 7:46Speaker 2: They found that Horner had deliberately covered the front facing
- 7:49camera with a sticky note, and.
- 7:51Speaker 1: He didn't just do it in a moment of panic
- 7:52on the day she disappeared. That's the key.
- 7:55Speaker 2: The system logs are so damning. He covered that lens
- 7:58on November twenty sixth, he did it again on November
- 8:00twenty ninth, and then.
- 8:01Speaker 1: On November thirtieth, the day of the murder, he slapped
- 8:04a sticky note over the lens at four point nine pm.
- 8:07Speaker 2: Which is just over an hour before he ever reached
- 8:09the Strand home.
- 8:10Speaker 1: I mean, if he's covering a camera days in advance
- 8:13and an hour before the crime. Doesn't that prove he
- 8:17was actively hunting.
- 8:18Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's pre crime obfuscation. You don't create a blind
- 8:22spot an hour before you accidentally back over somewhet.
- 8:25Speaker 1: No, you do it because you're planning something. And the
- 8:28interior video footage is the final nail in the coffin
- 8:32for his whole accident.
- 8:33Speaker 2: Story right because before he covered the inside camera, it
- 8:36captured him walking back to his truck, and.
- 8:39Speaker 1: Right behind him, walking totally upright under her own power,
- 8:43is Athena.
- 8:44Speaker 2: No limping, no signs of being hit by a multi
- 8:46ton vehicle. She just followed him to the truck.
- 8:48Speaker 1: The video shows her kind of looking into the open
- 8:50cargo area, probably curious about packages, and then Horner just
- 8:54physically picks her up, puts her inside, and shuts the door.
- 8:57Speaker 2: And it is only after he traps her in there
- 8:58that he reaches up and puts an another sticky note
- 9:01over that internal camera lens.
- 9:02Speaker 1: The calculation of the sticky notes is just terrifying. He
- 9:05was trying to completely silence the digital.
- 9:07Speaker 2: Witness, but he made a massive critical mistake. He understood
- 9:11the visual surveillance, but he totally failed to account for
- 9:14the audio.
- 9:15Speaker 1: He blinded the camera, but the microphone was still live.
- 9:18Speaker 3: It just kept recording, and that unblinking digital witness captured
- 9:22the audio that became the most devastating piece of evidence
- 9:25played in that twenty twenty six courtroom, the final testimony.
- 9:30Speaker 1: That's what it was, and that audio it plunges the
- 9:34listener into an unfiltered, hour long nightmare.
- 9:38Speaker 2: It's the reality of her final hour. But what really
- 9:40stands out in the source material is her situational awareness.
- 9:43Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yes, even as seven years old, she
- 9:46doesn't just panic and cry blindly. She actively interrogates him.
- 9:50Speaker 2: Her voice is small but incredibly direct. She straight up
- 9:53asks him what are you doing?
- 9:55Speaker 1: And then she asked the most heartbreaking, brave question, are
- 9:59you a kidnapper?
- 10:01Speaker 2: For a seven year old child whose whole cognitive map
- 10:04is just you know, familiar routines and safe adults, for
- 10:07her to be thrown into the dark back of a
- 10:08truck and instantly identify the threat, It's incredible.
- 10:11Speaker 1: She is defining the parameters of her danger immediately, and
- 10:14Horner just tries to dismiss her. He says it doesn't matter.
- 10:17Speaker 2: He tries to establish this really creepy false normalcy, asking
- 10:20about her school, asking her age, and.
- 10:22Speaker 1: Then he uses this classic predator tactic. He tells her
- 10:25you're really pretty.
- 10:26Speaker 2: You know that it's meant to confuse the dynamic, to
- 10:30assert dominance through this totally inappropriate intimacy, But.
- 10:34Speaker 1: The audio proves that Athena didn't buy into it at all.
- 10:39When the truck stops for a second, he tells her
- 10:41they're going to hang out and tells her to take
- 10:43her shirt off.
- 10:44Speaker 2: And she gives an immediate firm no.
- 10:47Speaker 1: That single word, just no is so powerful it strips
- 10:50away any defense he had left. She set a boundary
- 10:53and she demanded her mother.
- 10:55Speaker 2: And his reaction to that boundary was to threaten her
- 10:57to shut up. And then the attack begins.
- 10:59Speaker 1: And this is where the recording introduces this really surreal,
- 11:02almost grotesque juxtaposition. While this horrific attack is happening, you
- 11:07can hear the radio playing in the background.
- 11:09Speaker 2: Yeah, it was playing jingle bell rock.
- 11:11Speaker 1: Just think about the psychological way of that for a jury.
- 11:14Jingle bell rock is a symbol of childhood joy and
- 11:17the holidays.
- 11:18Speaker 2: And it suddenly becomes the soundtrack to a child's murder.
- 11:22It elevates the audio from just being data to an
- 11:26agonizing immersive experience for everyone in that room.
- 11:29Speaker 1: It totally shatters any kind of clinical detachment you might
- 11:32try to hold onto.
- 11:34Speaker 2: The audio captures the sounds of blunt force, trauma of choking,
- 11:38and the physical evidence perfectly backed up the defiance they
- 11:41heard on that tape, because.
- 11:43Speaker 1: They found her body a couple days later, right on
- 11:45December second, about nine miles away in the Trinity River.
- 11:48Speaker 2: Yes, and the medical examiner found Horner's DNA under her fingernails.
- 11:53Speaker 1: Which proves she fought back fiercely. She didn't just say no,
- 11:57She fought for her life.
- 11:58Speaker 2: And you have to contract that brave struggle with how
- 12:01Horner acted the very next day. This is where the
- 12:04telematics come back in to show his true state of.
- 12:07Speaker 1: Mind, right, because on December first, while two hundred people
- 12:11are combing the fields looking for her, the truck's camera
- 12:14catches Horner just doing his normal.
- 12:16Speaker 2: Route, smoking a cigarette, singing along to the radio.
- 12:19Speaker 1: And then there's the footage from one point eighteen am,
- 12:22the night of the murder. He casually stops at the
- 12:25gas station and meticulously cleans out the.
- 12:27Speaker 2: Back of his truck But the interaction he has with
- 12:29a searcher the next day is almost the most disturbing part.
- 12:31Speaker 1: Oh, when the local woman walks up to.
- 12:33Speaker 2: His truck, Yes, she approaches him because traffic is slowed
- 12:36down near the search grid, and she tells him they're
- 12:39looking for a missing seven year old.
- 12:40Speaker 1: And his response, he feigns total ignorance. He looks right
- 12:45at her and says, are you serious. That's what all
- 12:48this is for.
- 12:48Speaker 2: It's a masterclass in psychopathy. To look a worried neighbor
- 12:51in the eye and pretend to be shocked by the
- 12:53search for the little girl you just killed. It shows
- 12:56a complete and utter lack of empathy.
- 12:58Speaker 1: When you layer all of this for the jury, the
- 13:00audio of her terror, the DNA from her fighting back,
- 13:04and him casually mocking the search, it completely destroys his
- 13:07impaired judgment or panic defense.
- 13:10Speaker 2: It forces the jury to confront the premeditation head on.
- 13:13But you know, the trauma of hearing that final hour
- 13:16didn't just break the jury, No.
- 13:17Speaker 1: It really highlighted the immeasurable collateral damage. I always think
- 13:21of tragedies like this as having a blast radius.
- 13:24Speaker 2: That's a profound way to look at it.
- 13:25Speaker 1: The murder itself is the epicenter, right, Yeah, but the
- 13:28shockwave from it dismantles the lives, the health, and the
- 13:31sanity of everyone nearby.
- 13:33Speaker 2: We see that so clearly in the victim impact statements.
- 13:36During the trial. Jacob Strand, Athena's dad, had to take
- 13:40the stand, and.
- 13:40Speaker 1: His testimony was just heart wrenching. He talked about basically
- 13:44collapsing physically and emotionally.
- 13:46Speaker 3: He lost fifty pounds.
- 13:47Speaker 2: He admitted to turning to alcohol, to going weeks between
- 13:50eating properly.
- 13:51Speaker 1: He talked about his marriage crumbling and the guilt he felt.
- 13:55He said he felt like he had failed his father's
- 13:57role to protect her, which is.
- 13:59Speaker 2: Such an impossible and parents naturally view themselves as the
- 14:02ultimate shield for their.
- 14:03Speaker 3: Kids, right.
- 14:04Speaker 1: But logically, how could Jacob have ever predicted or stopped
- 14:07a trusted delivery driver.
- 14:08Speaker 2: He couldn't, But emotionally he absorbs all of that blame anyway,
- 14:12It's a psychological equation that cannot.
- 14:13Speaker 1: Be solved, and that trauma ripples down to the siblings too.
- 14:17Speaker 2: Yeah.
- 14:17Speaker 1: Jacob testified that Athena's sister is in therapy suffering from
- 14:21severe nightmares about what happened.
- 14:22Speaker 2: Child psychologists call that secondary traumatic stress. Her innocence is gone,
- 14:27her perception of the world being a safe place has
- 14:30been fundamentally rewired.
- 14:32Speaker 1: Which is why the empathy shown by Maitland Gandhy Athena's
- 14:35mom is so astonishing to me.
- 14:37Speaker 2: It really is. During her testimony, she directed so much
- 14:40compassion toward the jury members themselves.
- 14:43Speaker 1: She actually said, not anyone in this room besides Tanner.
- 14:46Horner asked for what's on that video, and Athena definitely
- 14:50did not.
- 14:51Speaker 2: For a grieving mother to recognize the burden resting on
- 14:54twelve strangers, it's remarkable strength. She understands that to get justice,
- 14:59these everyday citizens have to absorb a piece of that nightmare.
- 15:03Speaker 1: They have to act as psychological sponges for the darkest
- 15:06parts of humanity. And the ripple effects didn't stop at
- 15:09the courtroom doors either.
- 15:10Speaker 2: No, it triggered a huge conversation about vulnerabilities in modern life.
- 15:14The whole gig economy and corporate delivery infrastructure came under scrutiny.
- 15:18Speaker 1: People realize that we just blindly trust these branded trucks
- 15:21pulling up to our houses every day. Raised major questions
- 15:24about FedEx's background checks and safety protocols.
- 15:27Speaker 2: It really shattered the illusion that a uniform automatically means safety,
- 15:31which brings us.
- 15:32Speaker 1: To the present moment, April twenty twenty six. The heavy
- 15:36burden resting on that.
- 15:37Speaker 2: Jury right now, because Horner has already played guilty.
- 15:39Speaker 1: Right, Yes, on April seventh, right before the jury selection
- 15:43wrapped up, he pled guilty to capital murder and aggravated kidnapping.
- 15:47So the guilt phase is over.
- 15:49Speaker 2: Which means we are purely in the punishment phase. And
- 15:51the stakes under Texas law are incredibly specific.
- 15:55Speaker 1: Yeah, in Texas, for the death penalty, you need unanimous
- 15:58agreement from the jury. All welve have to agree.
- 16:01Speaker 2: If even onejur holds out, it's an automatic sentence of
- 16:05life without parole. It's a built in circuit breaker.
- 16:07Speaker 1: So how does a defense attorney operate in a scenario
- 16:10like that? Because Stephen Gobel warners attorney, he isn't trying
- 16:13to excuse the crime.
- 16:14Speaker 2: He can't. His client already pled guilty. So the strategy
- 16:17is to present mitigating evidence.
- 16:19Speaker 1: Right, He's arguing that Horner's lifelong mental illnesses and being
- 16:22on the autism spectrum should take the death penalty off
- 16:25the table.
- 16:26Speaker 2: The defense is essentially trying to paint a picture of
- 16:28impaired judgment. They're saying his shifting, nonsensical stories to the
- 16:32police are proof of a dysfunctional mind, not pure malice.
- 16:37Speaker 1: They just need to find one single juror who buys
- 16:40into that, right ha ononjur who thinks, well, maybe his
- 16:43mental state reduces his moral culpability just enough to spare
- 16:46his life.
- 16:47Speaker 2: Exactly, it's a high stakes chess match. But the prosecution's
- 16:50counter to that is a massive wall of evidence pointing
- 16:53to cold calculation.
- 16:55Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm the prosecution, I'm hammering on those
- 16:57sticky notes. How can you claim chaotic judgment when you
- 17:02meticulously preplann camera blind spot's days in advance.
- 17:05Speaker 2: And methodically clean your crime scene at one point late
- 17:08in in the morning and mock the search party.
- 17:10Speaker 1: The prosecution uses all of that, the premeditation, the brutality,
- 17:14the DNA struggle, the disposal of the body, to prove
- 17:17it was pure, unmitigated malice.
- 17:19Speaker 2: And that is the agonizing weight resting on those twelve
- 17:22ordinary citizens in Texas right now, weighing a man's life
- 17:25against the horrific audio they had to endure.
- 17:28Speaker 1: We've covered so much ground today tracing the heartbreaking loss
- 17:31of a truly vibrant seven year old girl.
- 17:34Speaker 2: We looked at the chilling digital evidence, the premeditation, and
- 17:37the shattered lives left in the wake.
- 17:39Speaker 1: But as we close, it's so important that we honor
- 17:42the family's wish. They've said very clearly that they don't
- 17:46want Athena to just be remembered as a victim of
- 17:48Tanner Horner.
- 17:49Speaker 2: They want her remembered for the joy she brought into
- 17:51the world. The girl in the frilly dress and cowgirl boots.
- 17:55Speaker 1: The girl who dreamed big. And there is one detail
- 17:59from all of this wi just breaks my heart every
- 18:01time I think about it.
- 18:02Speaker 2: The barbie dolls.
- 18:03Speaker 1: Yes, the you Can Be Anything barbies that were delivered
- 18:07that day. The family says they are still sitting in
- 18:10the house, unopened.
- 18:11Speaker 2: A permanent reminder of a stolen future, an unopened box
- 18:16of possibilities.
- 18:17Speaker 1: It's devastating, and it leads me with this one lingering
- 18:20thought about the era we live in. We are constantly
- 18:23surrounded by technology designed to keep us.
- 18:25Speaker 2: Safe, right cameras, dash cams, digital footprints.
- 18:28Speaker 1: Yeah, but in the end, all of that perfect, unblinking
- 18:32surveillance couldn't save Athena. It could only bear witness to
- 18:35what happened to her.
- 18:36Speaker 2: It couldn't intervene exactly, So.
- 18:38Speaker 1: As you go about your week, getting packages delivered, and
- 18:40just living in this highly monitored world, I want you
- 18:43to ask yourself something. When our systems of safety fail
- 18:47to actually protect the most vulnerable among us, does the
- 18:51absolute truth they leave behind offer enough of a foundation
- 18:55to truly build justice.
- 18:56Speaker 2: It's a heavy question, it is.
- 18:58Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on this difficul gold deep dive,
- 19:01and for being willing to confront these hard truths with us.