Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Smurl Family Haunting

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The Smurl Family Haunting · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Today, we're changing things up a little bit, and we're
0:10
Speaker 1: getting a little spooky. In a quiet Pennsylvania town, one
0:14
Speaker 1: family's claim of a haunting would grow from strange noises
0:17
Speaker 1: in the night into one of the most debated paranormal
0:21
Speaker 1: cases in American history. What began as a search for
0:24
Speaker 1: stability after losing their home slowly turned into years of fear,
0:29
Speaker 1: media attention, and conflicting investigations. Priests, skeptics, journalists, and famous
0:36
Speaker 1: paranormal investigators would all step into the story, each leaving
0:40
Speaker 1: with a different explanation. Decades later, this haunting still sits
0:45
Speaker 1: in the uneasy space between belief and doubt, where the
0:48
Speaker 1: facts are clear, but the truth depends on who you ask.
0:53
Speaker 1: But no matter what you believe, what remains is that
0:56
Speaker 1: this is one of the most famous haunting cases in
0:59
Speaker 1: all of North America. This is the case of the
1:04
Speaker 1: smirl Family Haunting.
1:08
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
1:12
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast. Warning.
1:15
Speaker 1: The following podcast material intended for maturial audience listener discretion.
1:43
Speaker 1: We've done it with the women, and I want to
1:44
Speaker 1: do it with the men. Congratulations to the US Men's
1:48
Speaker 1: hockey team for winning the gold medal for the first
1:50
Speaker 1: time in what like forty six years in the Olympic hockey.
1:54
Speaker 2: I honestly can't remember, but yeah, it had been a
1:56
Speaker 2: little while.
1:57
Speaker 1: What a phenomenal game. And to the men's can Canadian
2:00
Speaker 1: team who won silver, we are damn proud of you.
2:03
Speaker 1: You played incredible hockey.
2:06
Speaker 2: Still proud. Nothing to be a shame of getting a
2:09
Speaker 2: silver medal, really no, and it.
2:11
Speaker 1: Was still worth waking up at four am our local
2:14
Speaker 1: time to make sure that we caught that game. Yeah,
2:16
Speaker 1: Olympics are finally over. But man, I don't know about you, guys,
2:19
Speaker 1: I was very invested in a lot of it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of feels like we get our life
2:24
Speaker 2: back a little bit, a.
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Speaker 1: Little bit, a little bit. We've been busy watching the Olympics,
2:28
Speaker 1: not quite working as much as we should. But something
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Speaker 1: cool that did happen in February alongside the Olympics was
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Speaker 1: we had our five year anniversary for this podcast. We've
2:38
Speaker 1: officially been doing this for five freaking years.
2:42
Speaker 2: Does it feel like shorter or longer to you.
2:45
Speaker 1: Both in the same sms?
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Speaker 2: Me too, actually, because when I think back to recording
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Speaker 2: our first episode, that literally seems forever ago, but then
2:54
Speaker 2: just thinking about the span of five years, it doesn't
2:57
Speaker 2: seem like that long.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard to put into word. Yeah, like
3:00
Speaker 1: that was like an like a whole lifetime ago, like
3:03
Speaker 1: we've grown so much. But then also it's like it's
3:05
Speaker 1: only been five years, Like what we're babies at this still?
3:08
Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
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Speaker 2: Like you know, well, yeah, in our first episode, we weren't
3:12
Speaker 2: in the tiny house, right, so in our tiny home,
3:14
Speaker 2: so a lot has changed. That makes it feel that
3:18
Speaker 2: part feels a bit why, it feels a bit longer.
3:20
Speaker 1: True, true, But with five years, with a little bit
3:24
Speaker 1: of a celebration, we are doing something pretty cool. So
3:27
Speaker 1: on the first of March, we're going to be dropping
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Speaker 1: some new merch for Wicked and Grim and we're dropping
3:33
Speaker 1: some exclusive celebration for five year type merch. We're going
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Speaker 1: to be bringing some stuff back out of our archives
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Speaker 1: that we've released before in this vault, the vault you
3:42
Speaker 1: can say, yeah some stuff that is no hasn't been
3:45
Speaker 1: available for a while. So we're going to have some
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Speaker 1: new merch in the rotation, including a very very limited
3:52
Speaker 1: and sought after Jacko shirt. So we've done this before.
3:57
Speaker 1: It was available for one week on Patreon only when
4:01
Speaker 1: it first happened, and it was never released again. We'll
4:05
Speaker 1: never be released again. We came up with a second
4:07
Speaker 1: version of it, same thing. We're only available for a week,
4:11
Speaker 1: and this time we're coming out with version three of it.
4:13
Speaker 1: It's the same artwork, but different colors, so you know,
4:16
Speaker 1: like the addition right, first, second, third variation edition or whatever.
4:19
Speaker 1: And so this jack O shirt will only be released
4:23
Speaker 1: for one week and then it'll never be available again.
4:26
Speaker 1: So if you want it, you got to make sure
4:28
Speaker 1: you get it starting March first, and it'll of course
4:31
Speaker 1: be there with all the other merch that we have
4:33
Speaker 1: in our link in the bio description, all those sort
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Speaker 1: of things, you'll be able to find it pretty easy.
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we can make sure, like well, we'll talk
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Speaker 2: about it one more time on here too, and then
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Speaker 2: we'll make sure we do a post or something about
4:44
Speaker 2: it as well.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to be doing some giveaways over
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Speaker 1: on Patreon, so if you want to join Patreon, you
4:49
Speaker 1: can go ahead and get yourself in a name for
4:51
Speaker 1: a giveaway, just like some of these other amazing people
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Speaker 1: did earlier this week. Like we have ka we have
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Hubert, Gary Shepherd, Sam Kate, Sandy Logan, Keaton Hamilton,
5:04
Speaker 1: and Aaron Waterhouse who all signed up on Patreon and
5:07
Speaker 1: they're gonna have a chance to actually win some pretty
5:09
Speaker 1: cool march from us over there. Dang, dang, it's gonna
5:12
Speaker 1: be a good time.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
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Speaker 1: But before we actually start today's episode, I've got to
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Speaker 1: address the elephant in the room.
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Speaker 2: The elephant, the elephant in the room.
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Speaker 1: This is not a true crime case. We're doing today
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Speaker 1: in a little bit of a celebration, having fun for
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Speaker 1: a five year. We're doing something paranormal today, just a
5:32
Speaker 1: little bit off script. So today is going to be
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Speaker 1: a different episode. We might not be as serious, we
5:36
Speaker 1: might be chatting a bit more, but we're certainly going
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Speaker 1: to be talking paranormal stuff, not necessarily true crime.
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Speaker 2: Okay, which is fine.
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Speaker 1: It's totally fine to go off script once a while,
5:46
Speaker 1: well not off script, but off topic once a while.
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Speaker 1: We have done paranormal cases before. We throw these in
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Speaker 1: every so often. And it actually is prompted by one
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Speaker 1: of our friends, Demi. I was messaging her and she's like, dude,
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Speaker 1: you gotta do a paranormal something I'm in the mood
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Speaker 1: for spooky for dark, and I was like, you know what,
6:03
Speaker 1: let's do it. It's a good time for it.
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Speaker 2: You're like, I can do that.
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Speaker 1: I can definitely do that.
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Speaker 2: I feel that wish.
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Speaker 1: I did a little bit of searching and I found
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Speaker 1: well Today's case and I was like, this is a
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Speaker 1: darn good one. I'm going to hit it up. So
6:17
Speaker 1: we're doing well, are you ready for spooky?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's hear it?
6:21
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, to start off, I'm not going to go
6:25
Speaker 1: on script here and just start reading my little intro,
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Speaker 1: I have a question for you to ponder first. So
6:30
Speaker 1: if you're listening, I want you to think really clearly
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Speaker 1: about this. Because every town has a house or a
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Speaker 1: building that people talk about. Where we live, we have
6:40
Speaker 1: a specific house downtown in our city that has been
6:43
Speaker 1: turned into a business, and it's a house people talk
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Speaker 1: about because they know it has a history and it
6:49
Speaker 1: has something else about it. Now, things like the houses
6:53
Speaker 1: like this, for example, they're not always abandoned or falling apart.
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Speaker 1: Sometimes it looks completely ordinary. As I mentioned in our case,
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Speaker 1: it's been turned into a business downtown, so it exists
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Speaker 1: just as another place where you know, maybe someone mows
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Speaker 1: the lawns still in your neighborhood, or laundry hangs outside,
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Speaker 1: and everyday life is just kind of normal, still going
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Speaker 1: on around it now. The unsettling part, though, isn't how
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Speaker 1: strange the house looks. It's the idea of something so
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Speaker 1: strange or terrible that could have happened in a place
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Speaker 1: like this that looks so normal. Most people don't expect,
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Speaker 1: you know, fear to creep into their homes so slowly.
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Speaker 1: They imagine horror as something sudden, a single moment, a big,
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Speaker 1: dramatic event. But some stories that stay with people are
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Speaker 1: just different. They begin small, with a noise you might ignore,
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Speaker 1: or a smell you can't exactly explain. Something might end
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Speaker 1: up being moved, or maybe you just forgot where you
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Speaker 1: left it. But life continues, and you tell yourself there's
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Speaker 1: a reasonable explanation for these things, until one day you
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Speaker 1: can't say that anymore now. The Smurl Haunting became famous
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Speaker 1: because it sits right at that strange and uncomfortable intersection
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Speaker 1: between everyday life and something people struggled to explain. It
8:14
Speaker 1: has a working class family living in a modest duplex
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Speaker 1: with bills to pay, kids, to raise, repairs to finish,
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Speaker 1: and nothing about the beginning of this story suggested a
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Speaker 1: haunting whatsoever. And that's exactly what makes it so unsettling,
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Speaker 1: because the smirl family didn't set out become part of
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Speaker 1: paranormal history. They were trying to rebuild their lives after
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Speaker 1: a disaster, convinced that they had finally found stability in
8:41
Speaker 1: their life. What followed, whether you believe it to be
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Speaker 1: supernatural or not, turned their home into a place watched
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Speaker 1: by reporters, argued over by skeptics, and investigated by priests,
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Speaker 1: and remembered decades later as one of the most controversial
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Speaker 1: hauntings in North American history. Some people see the story
9:01
Speaker 1: as proof of something dark and unseen, Others see it
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Speaker 1: as a perfect example of fear, stress, and belief colliding
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Speaker 1: in real time. But everyone does agree on one thing.
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Speaker 1: It's that once the story started, it never really belonged
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Speaker 1: to the family alone after that. Now, this is how
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Speaker 1: it all began in the beginning, with the Smurle family
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Speaker 1: simply trying to rebuild their lives. In the early nineteen seventies,
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Speaker 1: Northeastern Pennsylvania was still recovering from the devastation left behind
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Speaker 1: by Hurricane Agnes. The storm had flooded entire communities, forcing
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Speaker 1: families to leave their homes and start over, and among
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Speaker 1: them were Jack and Janet Smirle. Like countless others in
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Speaker 1: the region, they were searching for stability and somewhere safe, affordable,
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Speaker 1: and large enough to hold a growing family. In August
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Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy three, they found the they were looking
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Speaker 1: for in West Pittston, a quiet town just outside of Scranton.
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Speaker 1: Now the property on Chase Street. It wasn't glamorous. It
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Speaker 1: was an aging duplex that needed work, the kind of
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Speaker 1: place that well, it needs some serious sweat, equity and patience.
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Speaker 1: But it did offer space enough for Jack and Janet
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Speaker 1: in their children, and Jack's parents as well, John and Mary,
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Speaker 1: who lived in the adjoining side of the duplex. Now,
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Speaker 1: the arrangement felt practical, with family support, and it shared responsibility.
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Speaker 1: So soon the Smarls settled into the rhythm of the
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Speaker 1: ordinary life in their new home. Jack worked steadily, Janet
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Speaker 1: focused on the home and the children, and the family
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Speaker 1: became active in their local church parish. Renovations filled there
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Speaker 1: every evening and weekends, things like painting walls, fixing plumbing,
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Speaker 1: just all around, repairing a house that showed its age,
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Speaker 1: but still holding a promise for a fresh start. Neighbors
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Speaker 1: described the area as calm and middle class, a place
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Speaker 1: where people knew each other and life moved at a
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Speaker 1: predictable pace. At first, there was nothing to suggest the
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Speaker 1: house would become one of the most debated paranormal cases
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Speaker 1: in American history. There's no dramatic warning sign or immediate terror,
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Speaker 1: just a family trying to recover from disaster and building
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Speaker 1: something stable once again.
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Speaker 2: I kind of love that it's a duplex, but on
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Speaker 2: the one side, you know, it's your family. Yeah, I
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Speaker 2: just think that's kind of cool.
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Speaker 1: Actually, you have a supportive network right there, right, you know,
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Speaker 1: if you need something, it's well just to knock on
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Speaker 1: the door away.
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Speaker 2: Going someone to someone who you're really comfortable with exactly.
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Speaker 1: And then at the same time, you still have your
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Speaker 1: own space, yeah, not forced to live in the same house.
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Speaker 1: And maybe you have just your bedroom or the downstairs
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Speaker 1: suite or things like that. You're not sharing a kitchen.
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Speaker 1: You have your own space. There's privacy, but then there's
11:58
Speaker 1: also that close network.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I like it now. If anything, though, this story began
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Speaker 1: the way that many real stories do quietly and very unremarkable.
12:08
Speaker 1: I know you like when I use that word. So
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Speaker 1: it had this sense that life was finally moving in
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Speaker 1: the right direction. And that's what makes what came next
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Speaker 1: so unsettling, because when the Smurls first stepped through the
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Speaker 1: door on Chase Street, they believed they were leaving hardship,
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Speaker 1: not walking into it, not walking into more of hardship
12:29
Speaker 1: that would follow them for about a decade or more. Now,
12:32
Speaker 1: the first years on Chase Street didn't feel unusual at all.
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Speaker 1: Duplex was old and like many other homes in northeastern Pennsylvania,
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Speaker 1: sorry it yeah, came with quirks. There's creaking floors, aging wiring,
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Speaker 1: and constant needs for repairs, and Jack spent a lot
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Speaker 1: of his free time doing that, slowly renovating room by
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Speaker 1: room while the family's just settling in. And at first,
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Speaker 1: when the strange moment started, they were very small, small
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Speaker 1: enough to ignore and say, you know what, it's probably
13:01
Speaker 1: just that aging repairs needed type house. There was things, though,
13:06
Speaker 1: like tools that would go missing during renovations, only to
13:09
Speaker 1: show up in odd places later. Now, if you've fixed
13:12
Speaker 1: anything or done renovations yourself, you can definitely attest to
13:17
Speaker 1: where the hell did I put that tape measure or
13:18
Speaker 1: where did I put this tool down? And then it
13:21
Speaker 1: shows up, you know, a little while later, in a
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Speaker 1: different spot, and you're frustrated with it, and I'm sure
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Speaker 1: that's exactly what Jack felt.
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Speaker 2: Well, unless they're showing up in places though that you
13:29
Speaker 2: would just never have put it.
13:31
Speaker 1: Well, some of them are like that. But remember he
13:33
Speaker 1: does also have kids too.
13:35
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, which they could move it around.
13:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, so things are easily explained away now. Appliances or
13:41
Speaker 1: lights began behaving unpredictably too. Doors in fact, were sometimes
13:46
Speaker 1: found open or closed when no one remembered touching them.
13:49
Speaker 1: Toilets even reported flushing on their own. Electrical problems appeared
13:53
Speaker 1: now and then, with sparks or shortage like outages and
13:56
Speaker 1: things like that. Minor issues, things that consiststantly could be
14:00
Speaker 1: explained away.
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Speaker 2: Okay, a flushing toilet would creep me out, but you.
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Speaker 1: Have to remember there's an old home, old wiring, weird plumbing,
14:11
Speaker 1: those sort of things.
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Speaker 2: I don't know that one would bug me.
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Speaker 1: Well, they are things that could be explained away. Whether
14:20
Speaker 1: they'd bug you or not, sure, but maybe if a toilet,
14:23
Speaker 1: you know, when the back plumbing something happens, it slips
14:26
Speaker 1: or whatever. The toilet could flush right or did it actually.
14:30
Speaker 2: Flush or yourself that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, all these you know, I don't I'm wanting to
14:36
Speaker 1: say reasons, excuses, that's the word I'm looking for. All
14:38
Speaker 1: these excuses are going to flood in your mind. And
14:41
Speaker 1: that's exactly what was going on here. They're trying to
14:43
Speaker 1: make up an excuse for Well, this happened probably because
14:46
Speaker 1: of this. This happened probably because of that.
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Speaker 2: Which would be really easy to do and it is
14:51
Speaker 2: human nature.
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Speaker 1: For sure, one hundred percent. But then came more noises.
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Speaker 1: The family began here hearing things like knocks and bangs
15:03
Speaker 1: that didn't seem to have a clear source. Sometimes it
15:07
Speaker 1: sounded like footsteps even moving through the house. Other times
15:11
Speaker 1: it was sharp pounding that echoed through the walls or
15:13
Speaker 1: the ceilings. Now, because Jack's parents lived on the other
15:16
Speaker 1: side of that duplex, each family while they both initially
15:20
Speaker 1: assumed that those sounds were coming from next door, but
15:24
Speaker 1: when they went and checked in on the other side
15:26
Speaker 1: of the home, each said, well it wasn't them, hmm.
15:31
Speaker 1: But that wasn't all. Along with the sounds came. Smells too,
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Speaker 1: sudden foul odors that came without warning, and they disappeared
15:41
Speaker 1: just as quickly. The family described them as sulfur like
15:46
Speaker 1: or something rotten. Plumbing in the house was checked to
15:50
Speaker 1: see if they could find the source. Maybe it was
15:53
Speaker 1: I don't know, a sewage backup or a pipe being blocked,
15:56
Speaker 1: but there was nothing obvious that they could find. Even then, though,
15:59
Speaker 1: the girls didn't jump to supernatural conclusions were they were
16:03
Speaker 1: very practical people. The house was old, Strange smells and
16:07
Speaker 1: noises were frustrating but not impossible to explain away, and
16:11
Speaker 1: for a while the incidents were treated more as just
16:14
Speaker 1: annoyances than anything.
16:16
Speaker 2: It is kind of odd, though, that it wouldn't persist
16:18
Speaker 2: the shrill, right, that it would show up and then disappear.
16:22
Speaker 1: That's true. But maybe it's something getting backed up and
16:25
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it lets go and it drains.
16:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like a breeze of sorts or right.
16:30
Speaker 1: Thing, All it takes is for you to open one
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Speaker 1: window in the adjoining duplex or the downstairs or upstairs,
16:37
Speaker 1: for you know what, the air to flow a different
16:39
Speaker 1: way through your house, bringing that smell in. Now, as
16:43
Speaker 1: the months turned into years, the patterns didn't fade. Instead,
16:47
Speaker 1: the incidents became more frequent and harder to dismiss as
16:50
Speaker 1: coincidences or just an older house. Now, many of these
16:56
Speaker 1: strange household problems that they were experiencing gradually started to
17:01
Speaker 1: feel more personal to the family, less like random malfunctions
17:05
Speaker 1: and more like something reacting to their presence. The change
17:10
Speaker 1: wasn't sudden again, it took time. The Smurls later described
17:14
Speaker 1: it as a slow escalation, a shift in atmosphere that
17:18
Speaker 1: built over many months and years, rather than overnight. The
17:23
Speaker 1: noise became more aggressive. Knocking that it once sounded like
17:27
Speaker 1: occasional tapping turned into very heavy banging that echoed through
17:30
Speaker 1: the duplex. Family members said they heard footsteps moving from
17:34
Speaker 1: room to room, even when everyone was accounted for. At times,
17:41
Speaker 1: sounds seemed to come from above or even inside the walls,
17:45
Speaker 1: making it impossible to track down any source. Nighttime became
17:50
Speaker 1: especially unsettling, too. The Smurls claimed their beds would shake violently,
17:56
Speaker 1: jolting them awake, and they described waking up and convince
18:00
Speaker 1: someone was in the room, but to find nothing as
18:02
Speaker 1: they stared at an empty surrounding around them.
18:05
Speaker 2: Okay, that's terrifying.
18:07
Speaker 1: In interviews years later, they also spoke about seeing dark
18:11
Speaker 1: shapes described as black masses or shadows, moving briefly through
18:16
Speaker 1: hallways or bedrooms before disappearing entirely. As the fear grew,
18:23
Speaker 1: the family said the activity began to turn. Physical scratches
18:27
Speaker 1: reportedly appeared on some of the family members without clear explanation,
18:31
Speaker 1: and these marks were described as sudden and unexplained, appearing
18:35
Speaker 1: right after episodes of intense activity in the home, leaving
18:38
Speaker 1: behind red marks on their skin that seemed to show
18:41
Speaker 1: where something had dragged its nails across their body.
18:45
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, So this is kind of getting aggressive.
18:48
Speaker 1: It definitely is. And to the smurls, this was like,
18:52
Speaker 1: this is what kind of felt like the turning point
18:54
Speaker 1: when the situation stopped being merely frightening and it's more
18:57
Speaker 1: well dangerous.
18:58
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's harm them exactly now.
19:02
Speaker 1: One of the most repeated claims from this period involved
19:05
Speaker 1: one of the daughters being pushed or knocked down part
19:08
Speaker 1: of a staircase by what families believed was an unseen force.
19:12
Speaker 2: WHOA okay, that's not okay.
19:14
Speaker 1: The incident was cited later as one of the moments
19:17
Speaker 1: that convinced them the problem could no longer be explained
19:20
Speaker 1: away as imagination or any sort of stress. Even the
19:25
Speaker 1: family's German shepherd dog also became part of the story too.
19:30
Speaker 1: According to the Smirls, in one incident, the dog was
19:33
Speaker 1: suddenly lifted or thrown against a wall. Whether interpreted as
19:38
Speaker 1: paranormal or not, the event was deeply unsettling in the
19:42
Speaker 1: house and reinforced their belief that whatever was happening in
19:44
Speaker 1: that home had become physically aggressive.
19:48
Speaker 2: Holy okay, yeah, that is just beyond terrifying at this point, Like,
19:53
Speaker 2: get out of.
19:53
Speaker 1: There, Ron, And honestly, I don't care whether you're a demon, ghost, person, monster,
19:58
Speaker 1: whatever you touch my were fighting on the spot, I
20:01
Speaker 1: would have been swinging in the air.
20:03
Speaker 2: I know that. I think I would just freaking rage. Yeah.
20:08
Speaker 1: Now, by this point, the family said the house no
20:10
Speaker 1: longer was safe. What had started is unexplained noises and
20:14
Speaker 1: strange smells evolved into something they believed could physically harm them,
20:19
Speaker 1: and fear began to replace confusion. The house wasn't just unpredictable,
20:24
Speaker 1: it was threatening. One event, though in particular, would later
20:28
Speaker 1: be remembered as the very turning point In April of
20:33
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, during preparations for one of the daughter's confirmations,
20:36
Speaker 1: which is a religious ceremony in many churches, a ceiling
20:40
Speaker 1: light fixture in the kitchen suddenly came crashing down. Now,
20:44
Speaker 1: according to Janet Smirle, the fixture had been secured using
20:48
Speaker 1: chains and hooks and did not sway or loosen gradually
20:52
Speaker 1: to fall. It just simply fell. One of the children
20:57
Speaker 1: was injured when it struck the table, leaving a mark
21:01
Speaker 1: and adding to the family's growing belief that something was
21:04
Speaker 1: in fact targeting them. Almost like the light had been
21:08
Speaker 1: pulled down. Wow.
21:11
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because that does not seem like something you
21:13
Speaker 2: could explain whatsoever.
21:15
Speaker 1: No, there's no way. Now. Around this period, the smirl said,
21:20
Speaker 1: the activity in the house changed from occasional disturbances to
21:24
Speaker 1: something much harder to ignore. Those they weren't just bangs
21:29
Speaker 1: and creeks. Family members described hearing things that were very deliberate,
21:34
Speaker 1: loud of course, those crashes. The physicality all of this
21:37
Speaker 1: was just growing. There were screams they could hear, there
21:40
Speaker 1: was growls they could hear, and one detailed report in
21:44
Speaker 1: several accounts was something sounding like a pig like grunting.
21:49
Speaker 2: Oh okay. This is so sad though for them, because
21:52
Speaker 2: they've always like, you know, they have money invested in
21:56
Speaker 2: this house, and they also put a lot of work
21:58
Speaker 2: into this house. Yeah, Like it would be hard to
22:02
Speaker 2: leave right because.
22:03
Speaker 1: Of that exactly. And not only is it like, oh
22:06
Speaker 1: I have an investment in this home, you have to
22:08
Speaker 1: remember this family just suffered through a disaster of flooding
22:12
Speaker 1: in this hurricane. So not only is it like, oh, yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: we're invested, it's like all their money is tied up
22:18
Speaker 1: in the yeahone, So what do you do now? The
22:21
Speaker 1: Smirls claim these incidents happened on both sides of the duplex,
22:25
Speaker 1: not just one side, which made it harder for them
22:29
Speaker 1: to dismiss the noises as simple, unsettling or mechanical problems.
22:33
Speaker 1: They said that the disturbances were sometimes accompanied by sudden
22:37
Speaker 1: foul odors as I mentioned that sulfur or the rotting
22:39
Speaker 1: flesh just coming and going just so quickly now outside
22:44
Speaker 1: the home. A few neighbors later said they occasionally heard
22:46
Speaker 1: unusual sounds coming from the property, though descriptions varied widely
22:51
Speaker 1: and none were independently verified. Some residents believed something strange
22:56
Speaker 1: might have been happening in that home, While others, though
23:00
Speaker 1: they dismissed the stories entirely or assumed the sounds were
23:02
Speaker 1: exaggerated by media attention that would later come now inside
23:06
Speaker 1: the home, however, the effect in the family was very real.
23:09
Speaker 1: Regardless of the cause. Sleep became difficult. Ordinary household noises
23:14
Speaker 1: started to feel very threatening, putting them on edge, and
23:17
Speaker 1: the Smurls later described a growing sense that the home
23:20
Speaker 1: was no longer predictable or safe, that events just happened
23:25
Speaker 1: on their own schedule without explanation, seeming to target them.
23:30
Speaker 1: As the sounds continued and the family struggled to find
23:33
Speaker 1: any sort of answers, the idea that something supernatural might
23:36
Speaker 1: be responsible began to take hold. By the mid nineteen eighties,
23:41
Speaker 1: the Smirrel family believed they weren't just dealing with random disturbances,
23:45
Speaker 1: and they believed they were in fact under attack. So
23:48
Speaker 1: they turned to the place that they trusted most for answers,
23:51
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. The family had been active in their
23:55
Speaker 1: local parish, and they described themselves as very deeply religious.
24:00
Speaker 1: Reaching out to the clergy felt like the first natural
24:02
Speaker 1: step to them. Now, according to Jack and Janet, they
24:07
Speaker 1: asked a local priest to visit the home and bless it,
24:10
Speaker 1: to which he agreed. The priest reportedly walked through the duplex,
24:14
Speaker 1: reciting prayers and offered reassurance, but he didn't witness anything
24:19
Speaker 1: unusual during his visit. From the church's perspective, there was
24:24
Speaker 1: simply no immediate evidence suggesting a threat of any supernatural
24:28
Speaker 1: or even spiritual cause. Over time, though additional clergy became
24:33
Speaker 1: involved in the situation. Several priests visited the house at
24:37
Speaker 1: different points, performing blessings and prayers meant to bring peace
24:42
Speaker 1: to the home. In some accounts, a priest even stayed
24:45
Speaker 1: overnight to observe the conditions directly in what they were experiencing,
24:49
Speaker 1: but again, nothing out of the ordinary was reported during
24:53
Speaker 1: those stays. Now, this, of course, created the first major
24:58
Speaker 1: divide in this story. The smurls insisted that frightening events
25:03
Speaker 1: continued when outsiders were gone. The noises, the smells, disturbances,
25:07
Speaker 1: all that returned as soon as the house was quiet again.
25:10
Speaker 1: But the clergy, on the other hand, they generally reported
25:14
Speaker 1: calm conditions and saw no clear sign of demonic activity.
25:19
Speaker 1: Church representatives later stated publicly that they were uncertain about
25:23
Speaker 1: the cause of the alleged disturbances, and suggested that less
25:27
Speaker 1: dramatic explanations might exist for them. There were also conflicting
25:32
Speaker 1: accounts about exorcisms that were performed. The family later claimed
25:37
Speaker 1: that priests performed several attempts at exorcisms that failed to
25:41
Speaker 1: stop the activity. Church officials, however, publicly denied authorizing formal
25:46
Speaker 1: exorcisms at that stage, emphasizing that the church approaches such
25:50
Speaker 1: cases very cautiously and only after strict investigation are they allowed. Now,
25:56
Speaker 1: this mismatch between the family and what they said they
25:59
Speaker 1: were experience and seeing what the clergy observed left the
26:01
Speaker 1: Smirls extremely frustrated. They believe something dangerous was happening, yet
26:06
Speaker 1: the people they trusted most for spiritual guidance couldn't confirm it,
26:11
Speaker 1: which is really interesting.
26:12
Speaker 2: It's almost like the spirits are using this as another
26:17
Speaker 2: tactic to scare them.
26:18
Speaker 1: Really, which is very possible. Yeah, now there is that
26:22
Speaker 1: other possibility of maybe a poltergeist attaching to the family directly,
26:27
Speaker 1: or maybe a member of the family.
26:29
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so if they move, it's still maybe with them.
26:32
Speaker 1: Well exactly, But also it also feeds off energy. You
26:37
Speaker 1: know and moods. So if they're feeling safe with the
26:41
Speaker 1: church and their home, maybe that stuff slows down. And
26:46
Speaker 1: when the church leaves, then their stress starts to rise,
26:50
Speaker 1: and so does the activity in the home.
26:52
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that actually makes a lot of sense. It does,
26:55
Speaker 2: because I was I was almost thinking that having the
27:00
Speaker 2: the priests and stuff in there could make them more
27:03
Speaker 2: mad though, because when they were getting ready for that
27:05
Speaker 2: the daughter's ceremony, right, the lights shattered and fell. So
27:10
Speaker 2: but yeah, what you just said, We're like, Okay, we
27:13
Speaker 2: feel safe, like these people we trust, like they're going
27:16
Speaker 2: to help us are in the home, and their anxiety
27:19
Speaker 2: is way less.
27:20
Speaker 1: Which isn't though, typical what you see of poltergeist. I mean,
27:22
Speaker 1: you see Poultergeist feeding off the energy of the people
27:25
Speaker 1: it attaches to, Yes, but typically as something along the
27:29
Speaker 1: lines of like demonic presences. That's when you see a
27:32
Speaker 1: lot of like the rebelling against religious figures and the prayers,
27:37
Speaker 1: the ceremonies. Now, poltergeist, don't get me wrong, I'm not
27:41
Speaker 1: a professional on the topic. I didn't even do enough
27:44
Speaker 1: research on poltergeist specifically to really speak on this. So
27:47
Speaker 1: this is just my opinion. Poltergeist. In my opinion, they
27:51
Speaker 1: act on the emotions of the individual. Now, emotions on
27:55
Speaker 1: those individuals can be upset by people coming into the
27:58
Speaker 1: home too, which is generally what we see in those situations.
28:02
Speaker 1: But at the same time, maybe in this way it's
28:06
Speaker 1: flip flopped where they feel relaxed by the presence of
28:09
Speaker 1: the church, who they're so close with, the people they
28:11
Speaker 1: feel the safest with.
28:13
Speaker 2: Jeez, okay, I just feel terrible for this family listening
28:16
Speaker 2: to this story.
28:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tough one. Now. By the mid nineteen eighties,
28:21
Speaker 1: the family felt increasingly isolated, convinced that something was wrong,
28:25
Speaker 1: but unable to get clear validation from the church or
28:28
Speaker 1: anyone else outside the home. For years, it kept most
28:31
Speaker 1: of what was happening inside their house and very private.
28:34
Speaker 1: They spoke with priests, relatives, and close friends, sure, and
28:37
Speaker 1: from there the story remained mostly local. You know, something
28:41
Speaker 1: whispered with very few people throughout, but that was about it.
28:45
Speaker 1: But that changed as the activity in their view became
28:48
Speaker 1: more aggressive and harder to ignore. Jack and Janet were
28:52
Speaker 1: describing events that went far beyond just the noises and smells.
28:55
Speaker 1: They were claiming, you know, things attacking them that rising
28:58
Speaker 1: issue right, and they were losing sleep, living in constant
29:02
Speaker 1: fear and very much so, a lot of tension building
29:05
Speaker 1: in a home. So around nineteen eighty five and into
29:08
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, the Smurls made a decision to speak
29:11
Speaker 1: to the press, and once the story became public, attention
29:15
Speaker 1: exploded almost overnight. Local newspapers picked it up first, but
29:20
Speaker 1: the attention wasn't always positive though. It was during this
29:24
Speaker 1: period that the Smurls also reached out to Ed and
29:27
Speaker 1: Lorraine Warren, which are a couple very well known people
29:31
Speaker 1: in the paranormal world. They are the kinetic are sorry kinetic,
29:35
Speaker 1: Connecticut based paranormal investigators. There we go, and they're very
29:39
Speaker 1: known for a lot of high profile cases such as
29:42
Speaker 1: the Amityville case in more modern sense, also the world's
29:46
Speaker 1: most haunted doll. They owned her for a while an.
29:49
Speaker 2: Okay, so this stuff doesn't doesn't make them shy away
29:53
Speaker 2: in any way.
29:54
Speaker 1: No, they are the most prolific demon I think they're demonologists.
29:59
Speaker 1: If i'm i'm don't quote me on that, but I
30:01
Speaker 1: believe they're demonologists. They call themselves paranormal investigators. They are
30:04
Speaker 1: the biggest people in the paranormal world to investigate something okay,
30:09
Speaker 1: So the Warrens arrived in West Pittston in January of
30:12
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. From the beginning, they approached the house
30:16
Speaker 1: as a very serious case of supernatural infestation. According to
30:20
Speaker 1: Ed Warren, he felt a sudden temperature drop shortly after
30:24
Speaker 1: entering the home, something he believed signaled the presence of
30:26
Speaker 1: a very hostile and entity. He later claimed that he
30:30
Speaker 1: had seen a dark mass from inside the house as well,
30:33
Speaker 1: describing it as an intelligence rather than a random paranormal event,
30:39
Speaker 1: and the Warrens began interviewing the family member separately, gathering
30:42
Speaker 1: their accounts and trying to identify patterns. Lorraine, who described
30:47
Speaker 1: herself as a clairvoyant, said she sensed multiple entities connected
30:51
Speaker 1: to the home over time. The Warrens concluded through their
30:55
Speaker 1: investigation that the Smurls were dealing with several spirits. They
31:00
Speaker 1: believed it was three human presences and one dominant demonic
31:05
Speaker 1: force that controlled the others. During their investigation, Ed also
31:10
Speaker 1: claimed that religious provocation prayers, holy water, and Gregorian chance
31:15
Speaker 1: caused the activity to intensify. He reported furniture moving, mirrors shaking,
31:22
Speaker 1: and objects reacting when religious symbols were introduced. One of
31:27
Speaker 1: their most repeated details from this period was the claim
31:30
Speaker 1: that a message appeared on a mirror after spotting a
31:33
Speaker 1: dark mass. The message was written in condensation, telling the
31:38
Speaker 1: investigators to quote, get out.
31:42
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's scary. I would leave.
31:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I would probably get out too, fair enough,
31:49
Speaker 1: that's a very valid reaction. Now, the Warrens said they
31:52
Speaker 1: documented the case and the home extensively. According to them,
31:56
Speaker 1: they collected audio recordings that captured knocking and rapping sounds,
32:00
Speaker 1: photographs of anomalies, and written notes from months of observation.
32:04
Speaker 1: Their team reportedly spent extended periods at that house attempting
32:08
Speaker 1: to witness activity firsthand for themselves. For the Smurls, the
32:13
Speaker 1: Warrens represented something they had they been missing, to say
32:16
Speaker 1: the least, people who had openly believed them. Lorraine later
32:21
Speaker 1: described the family as sincere and genuinely frightened, saying they
32:25
Speaker 1: were victims of a spiritual attack and were not participants
32:29
Speaker 1: in a hoax. But as soon as the Warrens publicly
32:32
Speaker 1: declared that the Smirle case was a genuine demonic infestation,
32:36
Speaker 1: the story split into two very different versions, One told
32:40
Speaker 1: by believers and another shape by skeptics. In fact, the
32:45
Speaker 1: haunting was no longer just about what happened inside the home.
32:47
Speaker 1: It became a well, it became a debate about how
32:50
Speaker 1: those events should be understood. From the Warren's perspective, the
32:54
Speaker 1: situation was clear. They believed the family was in fact
32:57
Speaker 1: dealing with these entities, including a powerful demons that fed
33:01
Speaker 1: onto fed on fear and chaos. But Eden Lorraine described
33:04
Speaker 1: the Smurls as is innocent victims, just caught in all this.
33:08
Speaker 1: They argued that the pattern of activity, escalating disturbances, physical attacks,
33:12
Speaker 1: in emotional strain matched what they considered classic signs of
33:17
Speaker 1: demonic oppression. The recommendation focused on religious intervention, prayer, blessing,
33:24
Speaker 1: and even exorcism attempts, the ones that I said would
33:26
Speaker 1: later come. The Smirls themselves supported this explanation. They said
33:31
Speaker 1: the disturbances were real, that the attacks had left lasting
33:34
Speaker 1: emotional scars, and that the Warrens were among the few
33:37
Speaker 1: outsiders who listened without dismissing them to the family. The
33:42
Speaker 1: investigation finally gave structure in meaning to years of frightening experiences,
33:46
Speaker 1: but outside the home that skepticism was extremely strong and
33:50
Speaker 1: very vocal. Paul Kurtz, chairman of the Committee for the
33:55
Speaker 1: Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, publicly criticized this case.
34:01
Speaker 1: He argued that the warrants were not objective investigators and
34:05
Speaker 1: described the story as a likely hoax or misrepresentation of
34:09
Speaker 1: ordinary events. He also suggested psychological or environmental explanations were
34:16
Speaker 1: likely in play, instead, saying that stress, suggestion, or family
34:21
Speaker 1: dynamics could account for many of the claims. Psychologists voice
34:26
Speaker 1: similar concerns as well. Some noted that people under prolonged
34:30
Speaker 1: stress can interpret normal household problems. Things that an old
34:34
Speaker 1: house might be enduring could be paranormal events, especially when
34:39
Speaker 1: fear builds over time, essentially saying that the family's life
34:44
Speaker 1: with tension or emotional strain might have played a role
34:47
Speaker 1: in how these things were perceived.
34:49
Speaker 2: I don't love that, Hey, doesn't that seem kind of yucky?
34:53
Speaker 2: Like almost like goshous people would be no fun at
34:55
Speaker 2: a party, Like they're just not believing them whatsoever and
34:59
Speaker 2: explaining it away, which the family did initially. But a
35:03
Speaker 2: lot of these things you can't just explain.
35:04
Speaker 1: Away exactly, and it's it's basically victim blaming is what
35:08
Speaker 1: they're doing. It's when it's like, oh, when someone gets
35:11
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted, well you shouldn't wear those fucking clothes. Oh
35:14
Speaker 1: you're having demons, Well you're probably just stressed, like are
35:17
Speaker 1: you kidding me?
35:18
Speaker 2: Well, and like those kind of comments, you're just going
35:19
Speaker 2: to stress them out more. So it's just not helpful whatsoever.
35:22
Speaker 1: Exactly, do investigation. We have people doing investigations, try and
35:28
Speaker 1: look at it from a scientific standpoint, Sure, try and disprove. Sure,
35:32
Speaker 1: but these people are standing outside the house and only criticizing,
35:35
Speaker 1: not doing any of the work inside.
35:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't like that.
35:40
Speaker 1: There was one thing though, Jack Smrrell's medical history became
35:45
Speaker 1: part of the discussion because reports mentioned that he had
35:48
Speaker 1: undergone surgery in nineteen eighty three to relieve fluid on
35:52
Speaker 1: the brain after long term complications linked to meningitis earlier
35:56
Speaker 1: in his life. So some of these skeptics pointed to
36:00
Speaker 1: this detail as a possible factor that could affect memory
36:03
Speaker 1: or perception, though no medical professional publicly tied his condition
36:08
Speaker 1: directly to these haunting claims. So even though there is
36:11
Speaker 1: this potential tie, there is still no study. There's still
36:14
Speaker 1: no investigation to actually say this is a potential. They
36:17
Speaker 1: didn't remove him from the home. They didn't see if
36:19
Speaker 1: there was anything happening when he goes somewhere else, when
36:22
Speaker 1: he goes under under strict circumstances and a scientific room,
36:27
Speaker 1: like you know, when he's in a room and isolated,
36:28
Speaker 1: is he still experiencing this? Does stuff stop happening at
36:31
Speaker 1: the home. None of that occurred. It's just strict criticism.
36:35
Speaker 2: So are they thinking, sorry that he's like the one
36:38
Speaker 2: causing the things.
36:39
Speaker 1: They're thinking he's just doing.
36:41
Speaker 2: Them and not remembering or something.
36:44
Speaker 1: They're basically saying that it's impacting memory, it's giving stress,
36:48
Speaker 1: which could you know, make him think things wrong, like, oh,
36:53
Speaker 1: how did my tool end up over there? There's no
36:54
Speaker 1: way I put it there. There's no way that this
36:56
Speaker 1: toilet flushed on its own when he did it. He's
37:00
Speaker 1: forgetting or he thought he heard something, or he thought
37:03
Speaker 1: he saw something when in fact he didn't because he
37:05
Speaker 1: just had fluid build up on the brain.
37:06
Speaker 2: But he wasn't the only one experiencing the stuff though,
37:09
Speaker 2: right Bingo, okay, so I okay, so that doesn't even
37:13
Speaker 2: really make sense. My only thought was, Okay, are they
37:15
Speaker 2: thinking that he's like causing all these weird noises or
37:18
Speaker 2: weird things to happen because he isn't the only one
37:21
Speaker 2: experiencing them. So it doesn't make any sense to me.
37:24
Speaker 1: Exactly. How did a German shepherd, a eighty to one
37:28
Speaker 1: hundred pound dog gets picked up and thrown against the
37:31
Speaker 1: wall without anyone touching it? How does a light fixture
37:35
Speaker 1: get pulled down or dropped out of the ceiling without
37:37
Speaker 1: anything touching it onto the child? How does a child
37:40
Speaker 1: get pushed by no one behind them? How is that
37:43
Speaker 1: fluid build up on a brain? What causes that? You
37:46
Speaker 1: have to look at that in a specific sense. Did
37:49
Speaker 1: the child trip on something? Was the ceiling rotting away?
37:53
Speaker 1: Was it their reason for it to fall? Did anyone
37:56
Speaker 1: actually see the dog get thrown against the wall? Did
37:58
Speaker 1: the dog stumble in? Maybe it has a limp because
38:01
Speaker 1: who knows it was playing earlier and it's nothing actual happening.
38:05
Speaker 2: But the kids are getting injured, right, and so that's
38:08
Speaker 2: just not gonna don't I just don't think that that
38:11
Speaker 2: is that doesn't make sense, Like, it doesn't explain anything.
38:16
Speaker 1: And I do mention this later, but this is where
38:18
Speaker 1: it comes into play of Are they doing it in
38:20
Speaker 1: a hoax fashion? Are they claiming things that are not real?
38:24
Speaker 1: Are they doing it to themselves all to get attention,
38:27
Speaker 1: potential money, potential fame, potential attention. Like, who knows what
38:31
Speaker 1: are they doing?
38:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess, but gosh, it spanned such a
38:34
Speaker 2: long period of time and when they went there, they
38:37
Speaker 2: were kind of like retreating, right, they needed a fresh
38:40
Speaker 2: start and stuff. So why the hell would they be
38:41
Speaker 2: starting a story like this?
38:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of these conversations are what comes
38:47
Speaker 1: into discussion, whether what side you're on. Many people are
38:50
Speaker 1: arguing back and forth over just these things. So they
38:54
Speaker 1: point to these details as factors that could affect a
38:56
Speaker 1: memory perception, all these sort of things, And the Catholic
38:59
Speaker 1: Church maintained a cautious position too. While priests had visited
39:03
Speaker 1: and blessed the homes, church representatives said that they could
39:06
Speaker 1: not confirm any sort of supernatural activity, and several clergy
39:09
Speaker 1: members who spent time in the home reported seeing nothing unusual.
39:13
Speaker 1: But by this stage, the Smirl case had become something
39:16
Speaker 1: larger than a haunting story in a small town. It
39:20
Speaker 1: was a public argument about the belief itself. The very
39:23
Speaker 1: thing we're doing right now, arguing over these semantics, these facts,
39:27
Speaker 1: the investigation techniques. Supporters saw a family under attack, but
39:31
Speaker 1: critics saw a family influenced by fear and misunderstanding. Now,
39:35
Speaker 1: local papers were, of course the first to cover the
39:37
Speaker 1: story in depth and dive into the things between locals,
39:41
Speaker 1: but it didn't stay local for long. Soon, televised crews
39:44
Speaker 1: came from across the country and they began arriving in
39:47
Speaker 1: West Piston. According to accounts from the time, dozens of
39:51
Speaker 1: reporters could be outside the duplex on any single given day,
39:56
Speaker 1: hoping to capture footage or secure interviews with family or
39:59
Speaker 1: even the warrens. Crowds gathered and curious seekers they walked
40:04
Speaker 1: through the neighborhood hoping to witness something. Some people knocked
40:07
Speaker 1: on windows or even peered inside the home. Strangers reportedly
40:11
Speaker 1: even threw bricks at the house and harassed the family,
40:14
Speaker 1: convinced that the story was fake or an attempt to
40:17
Speaker 1: gain fame.
40:18
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. See, they wouldn't have wanted that. They're
40:22
Speaker 2: raising kids and stuff like, they wouldn't have wanted this.
40:25
Speaker 2: This isn't the fame and attention that people want.
40:28
Speaker 1: No. Now, meanwhile, neighbors were caught up in the middle
40:32
Speaker 1: of it all. Too The quiet residential street turned into
40:35
Speaker 1: a constant scene of cameras, vehicles, and spectators, turning something closer,
40:40
Speaker 1: basically what was supposed to be a residential block into
40:43
Speaker 1: just a giant spectacle.
40:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't even think about the neighbors. Gosh, that
40:47
Speaker 2: would be terrible. That would suck so bad. Now.
40:51
Speaker 1: The media frenzy also attracted well known visitors. Actor and
40:55
Speaker 1: playwright Jason Miller, a Scranton native best known for playing
40:59
Speaker 1: Father Harris in the movie The Exorcist, visited the house
41:03
Speaker 1: during the height of the attention. While he reportedly stopped
41:07
Speaker 1: short of fully endorsing the idea of a demonic haunting,
41:10
Speaker 1: he expressed concern about the emotional toll the situation was
41:14
Speaker 1: taking on the family. Now in the middle of all this,
41:17
Speaker 1: of course, was the Smurls, who said they felt trapped
41:19
Speaker 1: between two different battles, one against whatever they believed was
41:23
Speaker 1: haunting them, and another against public judgment. The constant presence
41:28
Speaker 1: of cameras and reporters made privacy nearly impossible, and even
41:33
Speaker 1: routine moments in their lives became news. But no matter
41:36
Speaker 1: what side you were on. By late nineteen eighty six,
41:40
Speaker 1: the smurl case had become one of the most talked
41:42
Speaker 1: about paranormal stories in America. Now, while the media focused
41:48
Speaker 1: on headlines and dramatic claims on the haunting, the family
41:52
Speaker 1: was still searching desperately for something, something simpler, a way
41:56
Speaker 1: to make the disturbances stop. The Warrens, who were helping them,
42:00
Speaker 1: believe the situation required more than investigation, It needed direct
42:04
Speaker 1: religious intervention, so over the next several years, they continued
42:09
Speaker 1: with a series of blessings, prayers, and reported exorcisms that
42:13
Speaker 1: would become central to the story, though accounts of what
42:16
Speaker 1: actually happened they are often conflicted. According to the family
42:20
Speaker 1: and the Warrens, an espicoral priest was brought in early
42:24
Speaker 1: during this phase to perform rituals aimed at driving out
42:28
Speaker 1: the entities believed to be in the home. Prayers were conducted,
42:32
Speaker 1: religious symbols were used, and the house was blessed repeatedly.
42:36
Speaker 1: The family later said that these efforts sometimes seemed to
42:39
Speaker 1: calm the activity temporarily, but the peace never lasted. The
42:44
Speaker 1: Warrens continued to argue that the dominant force inside the
42:47
Speaker 1: house was demonic and resistant to ordinary religious rites. They
42:51
Speaker 1: described the situation as unusually difficult, claiming that the entity
42:55
Speaker 1: reacted aggressively to prayers and attempts at exorcism. Least one
43:00
Speaker 1: priest reportedly performed formal rites for the family, but the
43:03
Speaker 1: disturbances just returned afterwards. With these happening, the Smirls reported
43:08
Speaker 1: periods where the noises and disturbance lessened, only for activity
43:12
Speaker 1: to return later, and the pattern of temporary relief followed
43:14
Speaker 1: by renewed fear became part of their ongoing experience, and
43:19
Speaker 1: as time passed months, the strain of the family just deepened.
43:23
Speaker 1: The house had become famous, the investigations were ongoing, and
43:26
Speaker 1: yet there was still no clear resolution, And after years
43:30
Speaker 1: of fear, investigations, and public scrutiny, the Smurls finally reached
43:34
Speaker 1: a point were staying at that Chase Street duplex no
43:37
Speaker 1: longer felt possible. Whether the disturbances were supernatural or not.
43:41
Speaker 1: It had all taken a very heavy financial and emotional toll.
43:46
Speaker 1: By nineteen eighty seven, the family began preparing to leave
43:48
Speaker 1: the house, and it was tough. They spent years rebuilding
43:52
Speaker 1: their lives here after losing it in a flood. Previously,
43:55
Speaker 1: money had always been tight. They were trying to do
43:58
Speaker 1: something good and positive. But eventually, in nineteen eighty eight,
44:02
Speaker 1: they relocated back to Wilkesbury, where they were originally from,
44:06
Speaker 1: hoping to distance themselves and trying to end this torment.
44:11
Speaker 1: But according to the Spurls, the relief was not immediate.
44:15
Speaker 1: They later said the unusual activity briefly follneled them to
44:17
Speaker 1: their new home too, noises, shadows, and feelings of unease,
44:23
Speaker 1: well things that made them fear. All that stuff from
44:27
Speaker 1: the previous home. It seemed to show that the entity
44:30
Speaker 1: was attached to the family rather than the property itself.
44:34
Speaker 1: Now this belief reinforced earlier claims that some thought the
44:37
Speaker 1: haunting had become personal rather than tied to a single location,
44:41
Speaker 1: and the family reported that a final religious intervention, described
44:45
Speaker 1: by some sources as a secret or private exorcism, was
44:49
Speaker 1: eventually performed after the move. Now, details about this ritual
44:55
Speaker 1: were never publicly confirmed in full, but the Smurls later
44:59
Speaker 1: said that this final effort brought lasting peace to their home.
45:03
Speaker 1: After that point, they claimed the activity finally stopped. Now
45:11
Speaker 1: back on Chase Street, life moved in a very different direction.
45:16
Speaker 1: New residents eventually occupied that duplex. One tenant, Deborah Owens,
45:21
Speaker 1: publicly stated that she experienced nothing unusual while living there.
45:26
Speaker 1: Others who lived in or near the home also said
45:29
Speaker 1: they never witnessed paranormal activity at all. For skeptics, this
45:33
Speaker 1: became an important point. The house itself was haunted, it
45:37
Speaker 1: raised questions about what really happened during the smirl's time there.
45:40
Speaker 1: But for believers, however, the story ended exactly as expected.
45:45
Speaker 1: The family escaped and the haunting ended once the spiritual
45:48
Speaker 1: battle was finally resolved, even at their new home. Either way,
45:53
Speaker 1: the move marked the end of the activity haunting, and
45:56
Speaker 1: the whole narrative. Life moved forward in practical or ordinary
46:00
Speaker 1: ways for the Smurls. Jack Smurle returned to work and
46:03
Speaker 1: stayed largely out of the spotlight. He worked for tops
46:06
Speaker 1: Chewing Gum for decades and became deeply involved in his
46:10
Speaker 1: church and community. Friends and family later described him as dedicated, supportive,
46:15
Speaker 1: and focused on rebuilding a quiet life after years of chaos.
46:19
Speaker 1: He attended his daughter's sporting events, volunteered at church foundations,
46:24
Speaker 1: and tried to leave the haunting behind him. The family
46:28
Speaker 1: also pushed back against accusations that they had profited from
46:31
Speaker 1: the stories. Over the years, they repeatedly said they did
46:36
Speaker 1: not receive significant financial gain from the books or television
46:39
Speaker 1: adaptations that would eventually come out, that the attention brought
46:43
Speaker 1: more stress than any benefit they received. For them, the
46:47
Speaker 1: lasting memory was not fame. It was harassment. It was
46:51
Speaker 1: skepticism and the feeling of being watched or judged. As
46:57
Speaker 1: the daughters grew older, they built lives most outside of
47:00
Speaker 1: the public view. One of them, Karen Smirle, later became
47:04
Speaker 1: a social worker and occasionally assisted with paranormal investigations. She
47:09
Speaker 1: explained that her interests came from wanting to help others
47:12
Speaker 1: who felt frightened or misunderstood, saying she wanted to offer
47:15
Speaker 1: support that her family felt they lacked during the height
47:19
Speaker 1: of the media frenzy. In June of twenty seventeen, Jack
47:24
Speaker 1: Smurle eventually died at the age of seventy five after
47:27
Speaker 1: health complications related to diabetes. Obituaries and local interviews remembered
47:32
Speaker 1: not only the haunting, but also his role as a
47:35
Speaker 1: devoted father and community member. His daughter described him as
47:40
Speaker 1: someone who tried to protect the family during their most
47:42
Speaker 1: difficult years, especially when public attention turned hostile. Janet Smirle
47:48
Speaker 1: lived quietly in later years and remained mostly out of
47:51
Speaker 1: public discussion. The family continued to maintain what had happened
47:55
Speaker 1: to them and that it was in fact real, even
47:58
Speaker 1: as debate around the case never disappeared. For many observers,
48:03
Speaker 1: the haunting became a story frozen in the nineteen eighties,
48:06
Speaker 1: a strange chapter in paranormal history. But for the smrl
48:10
Speaker 1: family it was simply part of their lives, something they
48:14
Speaker 1: carried with them long after the house on Chase Streep
48:16
Speaker 1: stopped being theirs, and as time passed, the biggest question
48:22
Speaker 1: surrounding the case remained unresolved what exactly happened inside that home.
48:30
Speaker 1: In late nineteen eighty six, a paperback book titled The Haunted,
48:34
Speaker 1: One Family's Nightmare was released. The book was written with
48:39
Speaker 1: involvement from the Smurls, Ed and Lorraine Warren, and journalist
48:43
Speaker 1: Robert Keran. It presented the family's experiences as a detailed
48:48
Speaker 1: supernatural account following the escalations of events and the Warren's investigation.
48:54
Speaker 1: The book brought the case to national audiences. Readers who
48:57
Speaker 1: had never heard of the case suddenly they knew of
49:01
Speaker 1: this duplex Though when they knew of Chase Street, but
49:04
Speaker 1: it also intensified criticism too. Some reviewers accused the book
49:09
Speaker 1: of presenting only one side of the story and questioned
49:12
Speaker 1: the lack of physical evidence supporting any of the claims.
49:15
Speaker 1: Others argued that the narrative leaned heavily towards the Warren's
49:19
Speaker 1: interpretation without seriously addressing skeptical viewpoints. But despite criticism, the
49:25
Speaker 1: story continued to grow. In nineteen ninety one, the case
49:29
Speaker 1: was adapted into a made for TV movie also titled
49:33
Speaker 1: The Haunted. The film dramatized the family's experiences, portraying the
49:37
Speaker 1: haunting in vivid, frightening detail, and introducing the story to
49:41
Speaker 1: a new audience that may not have followed the original one.
49:45
Speaker 1: Like many adaptations based on paranormal claims, the movie blended
49:48
Speaker 1: fact and dramatization, reinforcing the Smirl case as part of
49:52
Speaker 1: American ghost lore. Over time, the Haunting settled into a
49:56
Speaker 1: strange middle ground, part true crime style acc count, part
50:01
Speaker 1: supernatural legend. Paranormal enthusiasts cited it as one of the
50:05
Speaker 1: Warren's major investigations, while skeptics continued to point to the
50:08
Speaker 1: lack of independent verification. Decades later, the story experienced another
50:14
Speaker 1: revival as modern horror films revisited the Warren's case files.
50:19
Speaker 1: The smurl Haunting became inspiration for new adaptations and discussions,
50:23
Speaker 1: including later portrayals connected to the broader and very well
50:27
Speaker 1: known Conjuring film universe. Each retelling introduced a story to
50:32
Speaker 1: a new generation, often blending historical events with cinematic storytelling.
50:38
Speaker 1: But by this point the haunting had taken on a
50:41
Speaker 1: new life of its own. For some, it was proof
50:44
Speaker 1: of the paranormal, but for others, while it was an
50:47
Speaker 1: example of how media can transform personal experiences into legend.
50:53
Speaker 1: But behind the books, the movies, and debates, there were
50:58
Speaker 1: in fact real people who had to continue living their
51:00
Speaker 1: lives after the cameras left, and their story didn't end
51:04
Speaker 1: with the headlines fading. By the time the Smirl's story
51:08
Speaker 1: faded from those headlines, two very different versions of events
51:11
Speaker 1: had taken route, and both of those events still exist today.
51:16
Speaker 1: On one side are those who believe the family endured
51:19
Speaker 1: a genuine paranormal haunting. Supporters point to the consistency of
51:24
Speaker 1: the Smurl's claims over time, the involvement of Eden Lorraine Warren,
51:28
Speaker 1: two very famous paranormal investigators, and the number of people
51:31
Speaker 1: who said they heard screams or witness unusual activity around
51:34
Speaker 1: the home. In this view, the case represents a rare
51:38
Speaker 1: example of a prolonged demonic infestation, one that resisted religious
51:44
Speaker 1: intervention and followed the family after they moved. But on
51:49
Speaker 1: the other side are the skeptics who argue that the
51:51
Speaker 1: case never produced reliable physical evidence. Investigators outside the Warren
51:55
Speaker 1: circle reported seeing nothing unusual, Clergy who stayed in the
51:59
Speaker 1: home described quiet nights, psychologists suggesting that the family was
52:03
Speaker 1: stressed with family dynamics or misinterpretation of ordinary events that
52:06
Speaker 1: could explain much of what were reported. Critics also questioned
52:11
Speaker 1: how the story evolved once media attention and book deals
52:14
Speaker 1: entered the picture. Even the Catholic Church never publicly confirmed
52:18
Speaker 1: a supernatural case. But what makes a Smirtl case unusual
52:24
Speaker 1: is not just the haunting itself, it's how public the
52:28
Speaker 1: entire situation became. The family's private fear unfolded under cameras
52:34
Speaker 1: and newspaper headlines. Supporters, skeptics, curiosity seekers, and critics all
52:40
Speaker 1: alike inserted themselves into the story, turning a local claim
52:43
Speaker 1: into a national debate. About belief, religion, and the paranormal Books,
52:51
Speaker 1: television dramatizations, documentaries, and eventually a major horror film adaptation
52:58
Speaker 1: all ensure that the Smurl hauntings would continue to be
53:01
Speaker 1: retold long after the original events ended, with each retelling
53:05
Speaker 1: the line between documentary history and dramatic storytelling. It just
53:09
Speaker 1: blurred a little more. And yet beneath the debates, there
53:14
Speaker 1: is one undeniable reality. A real family lived through something
53:21
Speaker 1: they believed was truly terrifying. Whether those experiences were supernatural,
53:26
Speaker 1: were psychological, environmental, or a combination of factors, it remains unresolved.
53:33
Speaker 1: That uncertainty maybe why the Smurl Haunting endures. Unlike many
53:38
Speaker 1: ghost stories that end with a clear explanation or dramatic
53:42
Speaker 1: final resolution, this one never fully closes. The house still
53:47
Speaker 1: stands later, residents reported nothing unusual, the evidence remains inconclusive,
53:53
Speaker 1: and the witnesses stand by their memories. So the question
53:56
Speaker 1: stays open, not just what happened on Chase Street, but
54:00
Speaker 1: how stories like this take shape in the first place.
54:03
Speaker 1: Was it a haunting, a misunderstanding amplified by fear, or
54:08
Speaker 1: something that sits somewhere in between, a real human experience
54:12
Speaker 1: that defies any sort of easy explanation what truly happened
54:17
Speaker 1: in that home. Whatever the answer, the Smirl case remains
54:22
Speaker 1: one of the most debated paranormal stories in all of
54:26
Speaker 1: American history, not because it proves anything, but because all
54:31
Speaker 1: that is left is unanswered questions. And that's the case
54:38
Speaker 1: of the Smirl haunting.
54:41
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's going to give me just a feeling
54:45
Speaker 2: of unease for the rest of the day, right, But
54:47
Speaker 2: I also just feel like no one would I don't think.
54:52
Speaker 2: I don't know why would like no one would want this.
54:55
Speaker 2: I don't think. It doesn't seem like they were doing
54:57
Speaker 2: this for any bene fit to themselves.
55:01
Speaker 1: I don't think so. And what's so unique about this
55:04
Speaker 1: story too, is we have things like the Amityville case.
55:08
Speaker 1: We we all know that one. That's very famous too.
55:12
Speaker 1: The debate happens, generally speaking, after an event, after the
55:16
Speaker 1: haunting occurs. We you know what families enduring something you
55:19
Speaker 1: have you know what, sure, some prayers and things and
55:23
Speaker 1: people coming in to witness it, but the public doesn't
55:25
Speaker 1: know about it generally until after it happens. This one,
55:30
Speaker 1: you have cameras, news reporters, people standing on front lawns
55:35
Speaker 1: looking in the home and shit is still going down.
55:38
Speaker 1: It is actively haunting. Yeah, if they were being haunted, truly,
55:44
Speaker 1: I think it would continue in that situation. If they
55:48
Speaker 1: were not, and there's people peeking in the windows, cameras
55:51
Speaker 1: on them in all moments, why would they not say, oh,
55:54
Speaker 1: it went away. Scrutiny scares people, it did nothing in
56:01
Speaker 1: this case.
56:02
Speaker 2: Well, people don't want to believe things like this can
56:05
Speaker 2: happen are out there, right ye. And I do have
56:09
Speaker 2: to say too that one daughter's comment about just like
56:12
Speaker 2: the lack of support really because there isn't the Other
56:15
Speaker 2: thing why I feel like no one would want this
56:17
Speaker 2: to happen to them is because there isn't really many
56:19
Speaker 2: people out there that can go about trying to help you. Yeah,
56:22
Speaker 2: you're right, right, So you're probably feeling so alone. I
56:25
Speaker 2: mean like, yeah, they're their church and stuff, was trying
56:28
Speaker 2: to help and they had the was it.
56:31
Speaker 1: The Warrens, Yeah, dam Lorraine Warren.
56:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, but really, you know, that's not a lot of
56:38
Speaker 2: help really, And it's just the voices are going to
56:41
Speaker 2: be so loud of people saying that you're making this
56:44
Speaker 2: up or or you're doing this for your own benefit
56:47
Speaker 2: and stuff, and for sure, I don't know. Yeah, I
56:49
Speaker 2: just feel like this is terrifying and I can't see
56:53
Speaker 2: someone wanting this to happen to them. So that's sort
56:56
Speaker 2: of my thoughts. So I do. I don't think some
57:00
Speaker 2: but I'm kind of gullible that way where I feel
57:03
Speaker 2: like people are good, which is funny that I'm a
57:07
Speaker 2: co host on here and I feel like people are
57:09
Speaker 2: good that they wouldn't go about making something like this
57:13
Speaker 2: up like people don't. I don't feel like the majority
57:15
Speaker 2: of people are good and they don't go about trying
57:17
Speaker 2: to make up weird shit.
57:19
Speaker 1: But what if these are not the majority? What if
57:21
Speaker 1: they're minorities not minorities. What if they're the minority and
57:24
Speaker 1: they're people who are making something up. How can you
57:27
Speaker 1: prove that they're.
57:28
Speaker 2: Not good people because they didn't really benefit from this.
57:32
Speaker 2: What did they benefit from this? And in reality, I
57:35
Speaker 2: think it just destroyed.
57:36
Speaker 1: Their life in a sense, I think so too.
57:38
Speaker 2: It was another tragedy for them that they had to
57:41
Speaker 2: go move and restart their life.
57:44
Speaker 1: Even after the fact, it took so long for them
57:47
Speaker 1: to gain any financial benefit, Like the book, the movie,
57:50
Speaker 1: all that that came like years later. And they even
57:55
Speaker 1: said they didn't get much from it. I'm sure we
57:57
Speaker 1: could probably, Like, if someone does the right digging and
58:00
Speaker 1: calling the right people, you could probably find out how
58:04
Speaker 1: much they made. And I wouldn't be surprised if they made,
58:08
Speaker 1: you know what, not that much.
58:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you watched what was the movie called The Haunting?
58:15
Speaker 1: The Haunting?
58:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Haunting?
58:16
Speaker 1: Have you watched that? I haven't, but I want to know.
58:18
Speaker 2: I know, Okay, I'm not like a huge scary movie fan,
58:22
Speaker 2: but I do. I think I do want to watch that.
58:25
Speaker 2: It's funny. I much rather.
58:27
Speaker 1: Or is it the Haunted?
58:28
Speaker 2: Watch a true crime documentary or something that's real or
58:31
Speaker 2: something that's fake. But I guess in this one it's
58:34
Speaker 2: not necessarily fake.
58:35
Speaker 1: It could be. Yeah, it's based on real events, and
58:39
Speaker 1: that's the thing. These are real.
58:40
Speaker 2: It would be like more like you said, a dramatization.
58:43
Speaker 1: Dramatization, yes, definitely. But the biggest question on this story.
58:47
Speaker 1: We know it's real events, but what were those real events?
58:53
Speaker 1: Were those real events paranormal? Were those real events psychological
58:58
Speaker 1: or those real events fabrications and hoaxes. That's the biggest
59:03
Speaker 1: part and we'll never know, unfortunately.
59:07
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I do find this story just
59:10
Speaker 2: sad too, because, yeah, I just like that sucks to
59:13
Speaker 2: have to go through that. I would. I just hope
59:15
Speaker 2: nothing like that ever goes happens to me, because yeah,
59:19
Speaker 2: just the lack of people believing you is kinda shitty.
59:23
Speaker 1: My personal takeaway, and I kind of alluded to this
59:25
Speaker 1: already in the discussion of what we said earlier, is
59:29
Speaker 1: I do think that this was a poltergeist situation. I
59:34
Speaker 1: disagree with Ed and Lorraine. They'll mind you. I didn't investigate.
59:37
Speaker 1: They're the professionals. They said it was a few human
59:40
Speaker 1: entities with a demonic presence controlling them. I disagree. I
59:45
Speaker 1: think it was a poltergeist. Poltergeist followed them because you
59:49
Speaker 1: know what, it didn't follow them, but because it was
59:51
Speaker 1: coming from them. And I think when the church comes
59:55
Speaker 1: in and they're not seeing that evidence, I think it's
59:59
Speaker 1: because they're so reliant on the church that it calmed
1:00:03
Speaker 1: the presence, it calmed the energy in the home. I
1:00:06
Speaker 1: don't think it was necessarily a spiritual haunting, to say,
1:00:09
Speaker 1: which generally Poltergeisser debated to not necessarily be, but an
1:00:14
Speaker 1: energy situation. Someone is so upset, someone is going through
1:00:18
Speaker 1: so much stress, anger, and it manifests through what that
1:00:22
Speaker 1: person is experiencing. You have an entire family going through
1:00:24
Speaker 1: a lot of shit. Maybe it did start with the
1:00:28
Speaker 1: father and his fluid build up, and then it progressed
1:00:32
Speaker 1: from there and it went through in the entire family.
1:00:35
Speaker 1: And eventually when they left the media attention, when they
1:00:39
Speaker 1: left the public eye and they went to the new home,
1:00:42
Speaker 1: of course that's going to be the moment when they
1:00:43
Speaker 1: get the biggest stress relief of the last decade. Yeah,
1:00:47
Speaker 1: and things began to fade.
1:00:50
Speaker 2: But then I'm almost thinking, to gosh, you know, this
1:00:53
Speaker 2: probably wasn't enjoyable to them. Maybe they were like, yeah,
1:00:56
Speaker 2: it's over because they just want peace from all these
1:00:59
Speaker 2: people and to be left alone. Maybe right, But I mean,
1:01:03
Speaker 2: my hope is that it definitely did stop.
1:01:05
Speaker 1: So if you guys got thoughts, make sure you tell us.
1:01:07
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1:01:10
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1:01:13
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1:01:14
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1:01:17
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1:01:19
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1:01:33
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1:01:35
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1:01:41
Speaker 1: And until next
1:01:42
Speaker 2: Time, stay Wicked.