Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Shell Lake Massacre, Part 2

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Shell Lake Massacre, Part 2 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, hey, welcome to part two of the Shell Lake Massacre.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'm Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: A true crime podcast. Good morning. The following podcast and
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Jean's grabbing content and material intended more mature audience. Listener
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: discretion is advice. Welcome back, Welcome to part two.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you left us all hanging.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I did. The first part was a little bit like
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of information overload. So if you guys made
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: it through the first part, good on you. If you
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: haven't listened to it, you gotta listen to it. There's
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: so much there.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: It was information overload, but it like had you on
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the oh, the edge of your seat.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Definitely, sir, you gotta listen to it before you hear this.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you left us right at this is like
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I need to know.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Let's go right at the exact edge where it all
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: takes place.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where he's who was it the Pete something Peterson.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: The Peterson family's home. But who was the dude Victor
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Ernest Hoffman, Not that.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Dude the duty ran into into the house.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: The dad that's James Peterson, James James and the Peterson
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: family home.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking for the James, Looking for the James.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Why did you do Italian hands when you said looking
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: for the James. Hey in the looking for the James,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: you know James b I don't know what just fell right, Wow, okay,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: that's interesting. I've never seen you do Italian hands before.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Oh now, yeah, I'm keeping things real.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's going to be like a reoccurring thing. Now,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to watch out for.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Those for my Italian an.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: You're looking for the James, I'm looking for the Italian hands.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, no chit chen.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We want to know.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So just a real quick recap where we left off.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Victor was going through all his mental health stuff, got
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: out of the hospital and he's still having those urges,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: and he ended up at the farmhouse of the Peterson family.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: So I'll read the last couple of sentences again of
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the last episode, just to refresh your mind yet. Okay,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So when he entered the house, he recognized the kitchen,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: but he had seen it before in a dream.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It was just wild.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: But that thought was cut short as he was greeted
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: by the shouting of a man saying, who is it?
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I totally lost my spot.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: This is the James, This is the James.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Inside the house was the family known as the Peterson's,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and a man who was speaking was the father James Peterson, Like, what.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: The fuck are you doing to my house? Oh?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like two in the morning and someone walks
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: into your house. I wouldn't, James, I'm a heavy sleeper.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: But if there's a noise, you know, sh it's gonna
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: get real.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: We've gone over the right.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: You're there bolting down the stairs, ready to fight anybody,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So James repeated himself, and when he saw the gun
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: in Victor's hands, he jumped up, ready to come forward
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: towards Victor and defend his family. Oh definitely, pants, I would.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I probably would have already have shipped my pants just
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: having someone come in my house at two am. I'd
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: be like, who's there?
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: So that's terrifying.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Oh definitely. So he is ready to defend his family,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and in that moment, as James stood up to come
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: towards Victor, Victor swung the gun towards James and pulled
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: the trigger. Yikes, shot and wounded. James kept coming forward
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: towards Victor.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Oh badass of the day badass of.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: The day right here. Definitely, he was definitely going forth
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to protect his family all costs. So props on you, James,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: you're the man.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: That's impressive.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So by now the small farmhouse filled with the Peterson
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: family was fully awake and in terror. Gunshots and loud
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: noises going like crazy, I could imagine. So James managed
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: to get to Victor and grab him by the neck,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: but he could only last so long because Victor began
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: to shoot multiple times he unloaded. He shot James a
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: total of eleven times.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Wow, shit, before.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: He collapsed to the floor.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: That is that's a lot of times.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: That's horrific. And of course, like his wife is just
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: right there as well, watching this, and the kids are
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: now screaming.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: It's the vision that that is just terrifying. It's awful.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, get this though an interview with Victor afterwards. This
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: is something he said in the interview or it might
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: have been, sorry, not an interview, but like with the
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: in the hospital interview sort of thing. Okay, So it's
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a direct quote from him. If he had talked quiet
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: and told me I was wrong, it would have all
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: been right. He could have helped me and I wouldn't
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: have killed him, but he tried to stop me.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: The James dude, he's saying that, James, you should have
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: just like talked softly to him.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think he came he came forward to
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: try and physically stop.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Him breaking in his house was a gun, yes, but
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: like I don't even know if that would have stopped him. Really,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: he had already had this super urge. Well, yes, and no,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: and no one would be no one would do that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I agree, no one would do that. The first
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: instinct is defend, right exactly. You know, you're most likely
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: not gonna be like it's okay, put the gun down.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: You know, we're to help. Like, that's not someone's initial reaction.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I guess that'd be a nice reaction to.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: But by that statement there, Victor, he's like, that's a
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: call out for him.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: It's really sad.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: He just he's looking for someone to help.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Him and no one's helping him.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, James wasn't there to help him. He was there
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: to defend his family. Yeah, that's not what or what
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Victor wanted. So James died because of that choice, which
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: is the choice of us.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Will make oh yeah, even more like ninety nine point.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Nine note nine point ninety ninety nine repeater.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Exactly, So dang, that's sad the shit.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: After James laid on the floor, Victor stepped farther into
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: the house and to him he had no pity for
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the family. Another quote, I was a little scared when
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I shot him, but I wasn't sorry. To Victor, the
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Peterson's looked like quote unquote pigs. He was disgusted when
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: he looked at them and had no respect for them.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And were they almost like devil like then?
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Looking most likely?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, He described the devil as a pig.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Yep. So two young girls hid under their covers in
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: bed and shouted, please don't shoot. I don't want to die.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Victor didn't stop though he already murdered, so why stop now?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: He pulled the trigger and then pulled the trigger again.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Now during all this, like I said, the mother of
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the family, Evelyn Peterson, she was there watching James try
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and fight off Victor.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, she.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Was trying to escape. She was trying to climb out
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: the window, and she was holding their baby.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, because I was like, what the frick O
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: get your kids?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: No, she's she's holding their youngest, their baby. So she
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: managed to climb out the window to the back, and
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: just as she made it outside, she was shot. Victor
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: went outside and ensured she didn't escape. He went back
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: inside and continued to shoot everyone. He executed them, all,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: the entire family. He planned on shooting everyone in the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: head so he could cut off their heads and take
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: the impaled bullets with them so there wouldn't be evidence
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: left behind. However, some stray bullets he didn't bother because
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: it's like I didn't get them all in the head.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Because here's the thing. Twenty two caliber rifles are notorious
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: for this. The mafia back in the day would actually
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: use twenty two caliber bullets because the bullet is small
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: enough that it will enter the skull, but it will
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: not exit, so it'll enter and like bounce around inside,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: essentially scrambling the brain.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Sweet, that's a nice visual. I like that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Well, this is a true crime podcast.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: That's real going there.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So theoretically, if he did shoot everyone in the head head,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: their head would contain the evidence.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: But oh okay, but he like missed and she missed and.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Ship, so that wasn't the case. There's no point. So
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: he didn't end up doing that.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But that was a stream is shit.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So huh, now where am I here? I lost my spot?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I still I still hung up on the whole, like
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: if he would have spoke softly. I don't believe that shit.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, who's to say whether it's true or not.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: It's a clear cry for help though, And.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I have another like firing question here, but I'm want
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to just keep it to myself because you're probably getting there.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Yes I am.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I really want to know.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I know exactly what you're going for. And you remember
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: when I warned everyone at the beginning of part one
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: that there's a real heavy moment. We're getting to a
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: real heavy moment, so Befoe warned. Oh so Victor saw
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and shot everyone, or so he thought. One little girl
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: was actually seems, sitting in bed between her two dead siblings.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: She was cowering under the blankets, and that was four
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: year old Phyllis Peterson. Victor raised his gun and pointed
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: it at Phyllis, but he didn't pull the trigger. He
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: actually let her live. He figured she couldn't really identify him,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: being four years old. Okay, right, I guess, And later on.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: He actually did say that she didn't look like a
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: pig to him. She had the quote face of an angel.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: So I'm pretty sure that everyone else did look like
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: a demon to him, like the pig demon thing. Yeah,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: if she looked like.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: An angel, she looked like she was being saved or something.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So he did let her live.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: He didn't shoot her little four year old Phyllis.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, little four year old Phyllis. So Victor clearly was
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: like thinking about like thinking outside the box. He was
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: already prepared to take the heads for the m O.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't want to leave evidence behind, so he
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: was already on that. He began walking around and collecting
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: bullet shells the cartridges from the shells left over, Okay,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: so he picked up seventeen in total and put them
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: in his pocket. He took another jar full of ammunition
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: from the house and a total of seven dollars from
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: wallets that he found within the house. He left the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: house and planned on driving off, but when he did so,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: he heard something, uh, oh, something crying.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Dang it.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It was the baby.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Dang it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: The mother Evelyn was holding the baby when she tried
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: to escape out the window. But yeah, that was baby Larry.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Victor didn't want to shoot Larry, but he kind of thought,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: how long would it be until someone found him? A
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: few days? Maybe Larry's probably not. Larry's likely to starve
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to death.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So terrible reasoning.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Victor didn't want him to suffer. That's that's his reasoning.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: That's shit.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And Victor hated himself for doing it. But he raised
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: his gun one last time and he shot baby Larry
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: before leaving the Peterson farm behind.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: No, I was so hoping that little babe would be saved. Nope,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: just phyllis. Just phyllis, Which is interesting.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: So he claims he didn't want to shoot Larry. It
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: was just a matter of he didn't want it to suffer.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: He didn't want that cat to suffer either. I'm just
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: trying to play devil's advocation, I know, but that's no
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I know it's totally dumb, but I mean, there is
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a chance baby Larry could have suffered, so in his mind,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: he's putting baby Larry out of his misery. Yes, he's
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: murdering in cold blood. Don't fucking do that, totally Gillius.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: She would have suffered too.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: She's four, she can feed herself.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she's surrounded by her dead family. That's worse. Yes, yes,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: but so see that reasoning. No, no, no, no.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to argue his thought point. Not that
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I agree with this thought point. I'm just trying to
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: get across his thoughts.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: No, just no, just no.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you for making this easier on me. I appreciate it.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to tell a story.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. No, I know where you're going.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, you good? No, are you like going to cry?
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Actually no, I'm okay, you sure, Yeah, I'm good.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I need some tissues for your issues.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, moving on, moving on from that. So that morning,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: someone actually arrived at the Peterson farm after Victor had left.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Well exactly, I didn't think it'd be long.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was another farmer by the name of wil
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Drew lang Wildrew was actually supposed to help James on
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the farm by doing some hanging in the fields. So
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: it's actually convenient. It's it was scheduled. It's not like
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: this is a normal thing.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: The ship that guy saw so as soon as he
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: pulled into the driveway and onto the property, he promptly
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: began working in the fields. And expecting James to come
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: out and greet them and start working with them.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, he just went right to work. Look at that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: However, that didn't happen. After a while, In fact, a
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: couple hours, James never came out. At about nine am,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Wildrew went up to the house, you know, thinking James
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: slept in. He's gonna buggam or whatever, right and make
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: fun of him. You know, you slept in, ha ha.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: The first thing he noticed was the family dog. The
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: family dog was just very timid, very scared, not wagging
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: its tail nothing. The second thing he noticed the mom
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: the usual noise from the house, the hustle and bustle.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: It was strangely quiet, eerily quiet, definitely like this.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Just silence.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Gave me chills. Damn, we're good, anyways, I say, anyways
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: a lot, don't I do?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I I don't know.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Anyways. So he approached the house and he went inside,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: and immediately he saw James laying on the floor covered
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: in blood.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Dang.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Quickly he drove off right away to go call for help.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And he had to travel six kilometers actually to do so,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to go to the closest telephone post. Okay, so you
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: can call police. Yeah, immediately RCMP came to the scene,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and the first thing was, you know, a little survivor,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: four year old Phyllis. She went to go be taken
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: care of by her uncle who lived nearby Only Lake
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: and I think it was like five kilometers away or
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: something like that. And then once she was safe, the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: investigation immediately immediately began.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I feel bad for her.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Phyllis. Actually, she doesn't remember much, but she does remember
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: when she's being carried out of the house that the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: officer carrying her was just crying. Really, she said that
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: she remembers him crying as he was carrying Oh.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: That sad. They probably knew the family.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Most likely. I mean it's a very tight knit community
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: around here. Everyone knows everybody.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: That almost makes me want to cry. So she's probably
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: still alive.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah she is. Oh wow, Yeah, she's alive. Huh.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So multiple police dogs were brought in. Dozens of officers
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: combed the scene, bushlines, the farm, They searched nearby houses.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Search parties of up to two hundred and fifty people
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: were ready to go on a moment's notice. As for clues,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: the main sources of evidence that was left behind that
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: they had to go on. Were five twenty two caliber
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: cartridge shells that were left behind.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Oh I missed some, he.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Missed some, and a couple bloody footprints that were on
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: the kitchen floor.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, so his foot his.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Shoeprint shoeprints that did not match any of the shoes
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: or any of the families. You know, fucked up, he
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: fucked up. So the house, however, ho what okay? So
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the house, however, did give a small idea of what
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: kind of person who potentially could have done this. That
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: sentence was written weird when I first read, it didn't.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Make sense that before.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: So the house wasn't ransacked, which means it's not like
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: a robbery, right.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Right, he tall, I can't even speak. Store seven bucks out.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Of wallets, you know, and like a jar off the
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: fridge or something right now.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And he also stole some bullets or something to do.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the jar full of ammunition. So it was like,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: it's not ransacked. They weren't stealing you know, jewelry.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Or anything like that.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: It was just a couple of dollars dollars out of wallets,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: that's it. Yeah, there is no signs of sexual assault,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: so that's not a motive. The Peterson's had no known enemies.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Everyone in the area knows each other and is nice
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: and friendly, and it seems like it was a single perpetrator.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So they thought perhaps this was random and the killer
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: just happened onto their farm.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: This was like from somewhere else or something. Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So what kind of person would commit that? What
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: kind of individual would commit a random, gruesome act is
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the sort of question they were asking. Maybe someone who
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: has a history of violence, or maybe a mental.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Illness, mental health.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're already right on the trail of Victor.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Dang, that didn't take long.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Ah, not at all. I spelt Victor's name wrong here
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I put Vitter so Vitter. Victor lived approximately sixty five
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: kilometers away from the Peterson's farm, Okay, I.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Was going to ask at one point how far they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: were away.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's another small community sixty five kilometers away.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: But with such a shocking case, you know, we're travel
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: seriously fast. And Victor began to think he might actually
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: be caught. I mean, we're talking about this, so clearly
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: he did. But we'll get under that. Maybe our CNP
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: would do like ballistic testing on his gun and they
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: would find that way, and he actually went to go
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: do some like he went to fire off like a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: major amount of shells in his gun to try and
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: change the rifling inside his barrel. Because each barrel has
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: basically a fingerprint, is how it is. There's a spiral
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: carved inside the barrel to help the bullet fly like
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a football. Okay, and each spiral is slightly different. It's
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: never going to be the same. They can carve it the.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Sad they can. Actually, that's how they pinpoint.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: They can identify guns basically by the slight differences.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Also, if you shoot it, the more it could change that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Well, he went he wanted to go shoot it off
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: a couple hundred times so that bullets are rubbing along
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: that so maybe it would change change right, Or maybe
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: even file down the firing pin a little bit so
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: that the pin mark, because it's a small hammer that
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: hits the back of the cartridge to cause a little
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: explosion that pushes the the bullet out. So he was
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: gonna file the pin a little bit different shapes. When
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: they match the cartridge shells, the pin looks different. He
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: went to go do that, but his brother actually had
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: taken his gun off to another farm, so he didn't
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: even have his gun. He couldn't do it.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Oh that is actually kind of smart, it is.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I wonder if people actually do that like nowadays or anything.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think people these days are that smart. I
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: think farm people like farm people are smart. They have ingenuity,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess that's funny.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Not that today's people are dumb. It's just it's a
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: lot easier for us, so we don't tend to think.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like they don't have a such like or
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: common sense isn't as common nowadays.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Well, like I said, it's enginuity. It's street smarts versus smarts.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So so he went to go do that, but he couldn't.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: What actually happened was a neighbor actually gave him away.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, how four days after the massacre, a neighbor
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: contacted the RCMP and told them about Victor and his
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: recent release.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: From the hospital, which just so fit the type of
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: person they were looking for. They quickly paid him a visit,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: and when they did, on his doorstep, just so happened
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: to be a pair of boots that sat there, matching
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: the bloody prints to the crime scene.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, he done, he done.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: He was quickly taken into custody and questioned, I mean
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: rightfully so. And it didn't take him long to actually
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: start confessing to it either.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Oh really, hey, they broke.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Him quick, only about ten minutes. Oh like real quick.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Real quick. He confessed well because he didn't actually want
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: to do it. I think he didn't.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: He didn't, and I mean I can't imagine he would
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: have much mental strength with all the battles he's gone through. Yeah,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: So he confessed everything, the shooting of each family member,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: his twenty two caliber gun that he used that was
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: later matched to the retrieved cartridges and bullets, the voices
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in his heads that told his head heads, the voices
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: in his head that told him to do it. There
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: we go. I got that sentence, So there you go.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: But Victor also confessed to another thing. He confessed he
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: was done killing. He knew he wouldn't do it again.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: It was almost like it was over. Something had lifted
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: from him and he was free of the urges to kill.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, which was probably like such a nice feeling.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: For him, probably, but I mean that was quite whoa.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I just me all over again. Oh my god, that
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: was quite the cost. Sorry, I don't know.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Face too, was like, you're almost like terrified.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It was like I had like a voice crack and
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a frog in my throat at the same time. It
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: was weird. Oh oh that was good.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I wish that they could see your face.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Hi, Welcome to the Krusty Berger. My bad guys. Sorry,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that was okay? At what cost? Did you know? Have
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: that relief? Relief fat for him? So yeah so. RCMP
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: actually later confessed that Victor, if he had disposed of
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: his boots and altered his rifle like he planned, most
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: likely would have gotten away with the murder. Why how
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: could they have pinned it to him if he didn't confess.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: If he didn't confess, didn't have his boots and didn't
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: have the rifle to match, they had nothing else to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to pin him to it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: There's nothing huh interesting.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And when they were actually taking him away, like the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: cops were actually pulling him away, what actually gave his
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: boots away too was Victor was trying to like, oh,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: just give me one minut I'm just gonna just burn
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: these old boots, sort of like he was trying to
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: get rid of the boots there like then and there,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: and that's what caught the attention of the boots to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the RCMP. Last minute, he tried to ditch the boots, but.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It yeah, oh gosh, it's surprising that he didn't. It's
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: earlier really.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean he had four days.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what was he doing in those four days?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: One thing though, Victor did have to say, remember because
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I was saying how it's like almost like he had
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: a cry for help before with that thing. Yeah, here's
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: another quote from him. If I had had someone to
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: talk to, I wouldn't have committed murder. It's a direct
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: quote from Victory.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well we had talked about that, which just my
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: head almost hurt a little to me.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Is definitely pointing to the hospital with only releasing him
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: with in two months, like are you insane?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Well, and it doesn't really sound like they helped him
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: much there, like he needed like a counselor and stuff.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: And like, well, and he tried to talk about it
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and they're just like, no, it's in your head. And
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: he realized that the more he talked about it, the
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: longer he'd be there to avail.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Like it's just is he still alive. Are we getting there?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: We're getting there.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I'm getting there, okay. Sorry.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: So after this, when he was convicted, he was immediately
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: placed in hospital and he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: He was found not guilty of his crimes by reason
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of insanity okay. In February of nineteen sixty eight. He
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: was placed in custody of physicians, where he spent his
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: time in an Ontario based institution until December two thousand
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: and one, when he was granted supervised access to select
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: towns in Ontario.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And the hospital was only required to inform the local
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: police of Victor's police So there's only the police they
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: had to talk to you, like, oh, by the way,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: he's going out today, That's all they had to do.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: This is very reminiscent of the story the beheading on
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the Greyhound bus.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Well, he Victor didn't go and change his name. Well
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Victor for some reason, I feel worse for Victor.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Victor were telling it from his perspective is probably why. Maybe,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: but Victor never really got released. It was like day passes, right,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Victor got okay, So let me.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Write that I need to say, like I still feel
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: bad as shit for that other family. It's awful.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened to them? Like whole So yeah, when
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: he was he was granted supervised access to select towns,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: so it wasn't.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Even oh okay and even never like a loan and stuff.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: No, so that did like stir up controversy, and I
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: mean rightfully. So, yeah, we have this he did.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: He destroyed a family.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they have this mass murderer just the day passes one, two, three, four, five, Uh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: a little more than that. We're going to get to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the exact number and names here in a moment. So
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Victor did actually end up passing away in custody on
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: May twenty first of two thousand and four. Okay, and
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the victims of the massacre are James Peterson, age forty seven.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: They all have the last name Peterson, so I'll just
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: say the first names. So James forty seven, Evelyn forty two,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Jeane seventeen, Mary thirteen, Dorothy eleven, Pearl nine, William five,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Colin was two, and Larry was one. Holy shit, So
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: a family of nine lost their lives that night.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, so like nine people lost their lives, but it
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: was a family of ten.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: It was actually a family of eleven. The Peterson's oldest daughter,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Kathy Peterson Kathy Peterson Hill, who had actually been married.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: She was about twenty at the time, and she was
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: living in British Columbia, a small logging town. Apparently very
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: well might have been Prince George. I didn't look it up.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So she moved back to the Peterson farm after this
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: incident to take custody of her youngest sister and take
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: care of the farm.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, so.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: That's where Phillis grew up. And that is the case
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of the Shell Lake massacre.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I had no idea it was nine. That's insane.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Nine family members. I'm losing my voice a little bit
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: right now. I think you are, Yeah, getting a little
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: bit raspy.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: You Okay, I'm good.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I just need something to drink.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: You need some water, okay. Yeah. Honestly, just like when
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: we were going through the case, I didn't I had
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: no idea. I thought it was five or so.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: No, it's nine in total. And he just executed them
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: all wow in the.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Farmhouse nuts And did he ever like get better at
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: all or no? Like I wonder like all his time
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that he spent in the facility, if he changed it
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: all or how got the help he needed.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: This is such an in depth story, especially when it
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: comes to like his mental state. I'm sure that there's
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: some information on that out there. I just I dug
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: so deep already I didn't get into the aftermath on
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: his state.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Well, it's good that he got because it's not the
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: same as the Greyhound one because the Greyhound one, like
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: was pretty much like a free man. He never really
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: became a free man.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's for sure. But it's the part where
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: it's similar in my perspective anyways, is he was granted
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: these day passes where it's not really known to the public.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Even yeah, that he's out and about.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have this person who committed such a
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: horrendous crime just you know, shopping next to year at Walmart.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: So it's like, oh, the the watermelons ripe, I don't know,
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: want me to pop a twenty two caliber in it
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: and see if it is like fun?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, you could just be making small talk
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: with the Yeah, mass murder in the grocery store.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. So that's where the similarities are. And I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: think the biggest issue lays with how hospitals really treat
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: people and patients who have these disorders and issues, and.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Because by the sounds of it, this case could have
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: been prevented.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Really Oh yeah, definitely, I definitely need water.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, why don't we just wrap this up because
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Ben has some survival something just.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: For context for everyone, because we are filming the first
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: part and second part back to back, back to back,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: and all I had so far was a little glass
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: of juice from from coal, which was delicious, but it
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: was just it wasn't enough to keep my voice.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: You have water, but we didn't. But anyway, that was awesome.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: It's cool that it's a two parter.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: That's not awesome. That was a horrific case, would mean awesome.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, awesome that like you, you did an awesome job. Well,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: thank you, well done. Oh the case was ship yeah
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it was, but you presented it well. It was a
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: good listen, well done, thank you, and now you can
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: go and have some water. I also want a piece
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of pie.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Oh we do have pie. We have pie, and then
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: we can go to bed.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. Okay, thanks really listening and stay
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: wicked