Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SPONGEBOB MADE ME KILL MY 3-YEAR-OLD GIRL, Michigan Mom

Transcript

SPONGEBOB MADE ME KILL MY 3-YEAR-OLD GIRL, Michigan Mom · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. SpongeBob made me do it. Okay,
0:16
Speaker 1: that kind of sounds laughable. SpongeBob made me do it.
0:22
Speaker 1: The cartoon character who was literally a sponge with legs,
0:26
Speaker 1: but in the context of a dead baby girl. SpongeBob
0:34
Speaker 1: made me do it takes own a whole different light,
0:38
Speaker 1: doesn't it. Sometimes excuses are when you first hear them
0:43
Speaker 1: at first blush laughable. You know what, Take a listen
0:48
Speaker 1: to this our cut one our friends at crime online
0:51
Speaker 1: dot Com. Twenty two year old Justine Johnson has her
0:54
Speaker 1: own home, but needing extra help taking care of her
0:57
Speaker 1: three year old daughters Sutton, she moves back in with
0:59
Speaker 1: her and brothers. Justine's older brother, Nestleie Johnson Junior, says,
1:04
Speaker 1: two days after celebrating her third birthday, Sutton and her
1:07
Speaker 1: mother were at home as usual when he left for
1:09
Speaker 1: work around two thirty PM. When he returned home around
1:12
Speaker 1: four am, he asked his seventeen year old brother where
1:15
Speaker 1: their sister and niece. Were. Looking around the house, their
1:18
Speaker 1: brothers can't find Justine or Sutton anywhere. However, the younger
1:22
Speaker 1: brothers spots something when he goes to the back of
1:24
Speaker 1: their house, he sees what appears to be a human
1:27
Speaker 1: child's foot sticking out of a bag, and Justine Johnson
1:30
Speaker 1: is missing. Okay, I want to hear that one more time.
1:34
Speaker 1: I want it to really so king, could you play
1:36
Speaker 1: that one more time? This is Dave mack, our friend
1:38
Speaker 1: at crime online dot Com. Twenty two year old Justine
1:41
Speaker 1: Johnson has her own home, but needing extra help taking
1:44
Speaker 1: care of her three year old daughter, Sutton, she moves
1:47
Speaker 1: back in with her parents and brothers. Justine's older brother,
1:50
Speaker 1: nest Lee Johnson Junior, says, two days after celebrating her
1:53
Speaker 1: third birthday, Sutton and her mother were at home as
1:56
Speaker 1: usual when he left for work around two thirty pm.
1:59
Speaker 1: When he returned home around four am, he asked his
2:01
Speaker 1: seventeen year old brother where their sister and niece were.
2:04
Speaker 1: Looking around the house, their brothers can't find Justine or
2:07
Speaker 1: Sutton anywhere. However, the younger brothers spots something. When he
2:11
Speaker 1: goes to the back of their house. He sees what
2:13
Speaker 1: appears to be a human child's foot sticking out of
2:16
Speaker 1: a bag, and Justine Johnson is missing. Justine Johnson, as
2:21
Speaker 1: you heard, had just celebrated her third birthday a couple
2:25
Speaker 1: of days before then, the brothers find a child's foot
2:33
Speaker 1: protruding out of a bag there in the home. I'm
2:40
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
2:42
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation in Sirius XM on eleven.
2:47
Speaker 1: You know what started out as funny, SpongeBob made me
2:50
Speaker 1: do it. It's not so funny anymore? Is it? Just
2:54
Speaker 1: trying to take in because I'm thinking about about my
2:57
Speaker 1: children at age three. I've got some pictures on the
3:02
Speaker 1: table beside the kitchen where we eat supper every night,
3:06
Speaker 1: and they are pictures of John, David and Lucy and
3:09
Speaker 1: David and there when the children are really little. This
3:15
Speaker 1: child had just turned three years old. With me and
3:21
Speaker 1: I'll star panel to make sense of what we know
3:23
Speaker 1: right now. Stacy Hanowitt's assistant state attorney joining me out
3:27
Speaker 1: of Florida. Her specialty is crime on children, and can
3:34
Speaker 1: I tell you something. I prosecuted a lot of violent
3:37
Speaker 1: crimes on children, and those crimes are the ones that
3:41
Speaker 1: you never forget. I remember, Stacy, one case I was
3:47
Speaker 1: prosecuting dealt with a little girl about three years old
3:52
Speaker 1: that was in a vegetative state forever. She was never
3:56
Speaker 1: according to the doctors ever going to come out of
3:59
Speaker 1: a vegetative date. And I was prosecuting her bio father
4:04
Speaker 1: for beating her senseless. She was covered in cigarette burns,
4:09
Speaker 1: she was beaten into a coma from which she never escaped.
4:16
Speaker 1: And you know, Stacy, when you want medical records, sometimes
4:20
Speaker 1: they're very hard to get. I had some medical records
4:24
Speaker 1: that I was using to prosecute the case, but of
4:27
Speaker 1: course Stacy during the trial, during the trial, which means
4:33
Speaker 1: there's no way I could have used the medical records
4:36
Speaker 1: because you have to they're considered scientific documents, and all
4:39
Speaker 1: scientific evidence has to be handed over to the other side,
4:43
Speaker 1: the defense well before trial, so I couldn't use them,
4:46
Speaker 1: no matter what I found in them. I was thumbing
4:50
Speaker 1: through them, listening to what was going on in court,
4:53
Speaker 1: and I saw where this I think she was between
4:57
Speaker 1: two and three year old girl. Stacy had also been raped.
5:02
Speaker 1: She had no Hyman. That was the only time I
5:07
Speaker 1: have ever walked out of the courtroom. I just said recess,
5:13
Speaker 1: and I don't even know what happened if the judge
5:16
Speaker 1: obviously granted a recess and I walked to out of
5:18
Speaker 1: the courtroom. I was so upset sad, overwhelmed, angry because
5:26
Speaker 1: like what had happened to this little girl, what she
5:29
Speaker 1: had lived through, you know. Only later it hit me
5:33
Speaker 1: like a cement brick that I couldn't introduce it into
5:38
Speaker 1: evidence under the rules of evidence. It would be unethical
5:41
Speaker 1: and reversible. But I mean, Stacy, how do you live
5:45
Speaker 1: with it every day? Because this happened years ago and
5:48
Speaker 1: I'm still talking about it, you know. Unfortunately, Nancy, I've
5:51
Speaker 1: been doing this for thirty three years and I see
5:53
Speaker 1: these cases all of the time, and it's a horrible
5:56
Speaker 1: thing to say that nothing surprises me. But what we
5:59
Speaker 1: see is the big, major cases that make the news
6:03
Speaker 1: that are in a fish bowl. I see these cases
6:06
Speaker 1: every single day, local cases in every courthouse in every
6:10
Speaker 1: state all over, and so we have to be really
6:13
Speaker 1: cognizant of the fact that this really does go on.
6:16
Speaker 1: Just because we see the big, heavy duty one that
6:19
Speaker 1: make the national news. There are hundreds of cases every
6:22
Speaker 1: single day where kids are being abused and raped, and
6:24
Speaker 1: that's what I deal with. And it's a hard task,
6:27
Speaker 1: but someone has to do it, and I've chosen to
6:29
Speaker 1: do it. You're doing God's work because these people need
6:32
Speaker 1: to go to jail, and I'll tell you why, of
6:35
Speaker 1: all other crimes, I am completely convinced that child molesters
6:41
Speaker 1: and child abusers can and will never be rehabilitated. That
6:46
Speaker 1: goes for all sex offenders, that people that pray on children.
6:51
Speaker 1: That's a whole another animal. Also with me, in addition
6:55
Speaker 1: to Stacy Funnow's is doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists and
6:59
Speaker 1: joy ending US from the Atlanta jurisdiction. She specializes with
7:04
Speaker 1: a practice with women, and I can't wait for her
7:07
Speaker 1: to tune up on all the mental instabilities this suspect
7:11
Speaker 1: may have had translation none. She just mean as hell,
7:16
Speaker 1: mean as a rattlesnake. I'd picked the snake over picking her.
7:21
Speaker 1: Justine Johnson have had to be locked in a room
7:24
Speaker 1: alone with one of them. Dan Corsentino with me, former
7:26
Speaker 1: police chief, former sheriff, served on US Homeland Security Senior
7:31
Speaker 1: Advisory Board, now PI at Dan Corsentino dot com. Doctor
7:36
Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner, Tarrant County. That's fort word
7:40
Speaker 1: and I catch this lecture University of Texas, Texas A
7:44
Speaker 1: and M with the faculty University Texas Medical Branch. He
7:48
Speaker 1: goes on and on thank you for taking time to
7:50
Speaker 1: be with us, doctor Kendall Crowns. But first to Coole Waterman,
7:54
Speaker 1: crime reporter with mlive dot Com joining us out of Michigan.
8:00
Speaker 1: You can find them on as to at dollars short.
8:02
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to ask what that means, Cold Waterman,
8:05
Speaker 1: Cole Waterman, who is this mother, Justine Johnson? She is
8:12
Speaker 1: from a place called Oscota. It's an unincorporated community in Michigan.
8:17
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about it? Oh? Oscota Township
8:19
Speaker 1: is near the city of East Tawas. It's popular beachfront
8:25
Speaker 1: location during the spring and summer months for Michiganders. It's
8:29
Speaker 1: not heavily populated. It's rural Twas itself is about less
8:35
Speaker 1: than three thousand at the population so Asakota Township would
8:39
Speaker 1: be even less than that. I do know it's unincorporated
8:42
Speaker 1: like where I grew up, which means kind of out
8:45
Speaker 1: in a very rural area. And I notice also that
8:48
Speaker 1: they're about three thousand personnel stationed nearby at Wartsmith Air
8:52
Speaker 1: Force Base. To Cole Waterman, Cole, did she have any
8:56
Speaker 1: other children or is this her? Only? As far as
8:58
Speaker 1: I've been able to tell, this are only a child.
9:02
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, Among many other factors to doctor
9:05
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, I
9:08
Speaker 1: noticed that a lot of children end up dead between
9:13
Speaker 1: ages two and three? Have you noted that? Noticed that?
9:16
Speaker 1: Springing to mind are the little Wells brothers Orson and
9:22
Speaker 1: Oran Wells and Kelly Anthony taught mom Casey Anthony's daughter
9:29
Speaker 1: had I believe just turned two. So what is it
9:33
Speaker 1: about that age between ages two and three that the
9:37
Speaker 1: parents just can't handle? Well, first of all, I think
9:41
Speaker 1: that children are very vulnerable at that age. It's still
9:46
Speaker 1: that's an age at which it's still a little bit
9:48
Speaker 1: easier to manipulate them. But by around the age of
9:54
Speaker 1: you know, a baby's born, it's fun. You go through
9:57
Speaker 1: the first year of life, which is a very difficult
9:59
Speaker 1: time for a parents. Going through the first year of life,
10:01
Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved my children's first year of life,
10:04
Speaker 1: and as they got older that it only got better.
10:07
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, let me just throw a lay person's analysis,
10:12
Speaker 1: and you tell me if this makes sense. When a
10:14
Speaker 1: child is an infant, some people, not me, will just
10:18
Speaker 1: put it in a car seat and walk around and
10:20
Speaker 1: just lay it down. I've seen people at restaurants put
10:24
Speaker 1: their baby down with like a little cloth over the
10:27
Speaker 1: top of the car seat and they don't look at
10:28
Speaker 1: the baby one time the whole time they eat. It's
10:30
Speaker 1: just there on the floor. And I assume they do
10:33
Speaker 1: the same thing at home. With a baby. You can
10:36
Speaker 1: just put it down and if you're of that mind,
10:38
Speaker 1: just leave it whether it needs you or not. When
10:41
Speaker 1: they're two or three, you can't do that. They get
10:44
Speaker 1: up and walk around and wander and can pick up
10:47
Speaker 1: the phone, escape from the door. You have to actually
10:51
Speaker 1: watch them and give them attention. By that age is
10:53
Speaker 1: some parents just aren't cut out for it. And also Nancy.
10:56
Speaker 1: Around that age, they are talking and they can push
10:59
Speaker 1: back a little bit, and sometimes I think parents start
11:03
Speaker 1: to realize, well, this is just getting harder, This is
11:07
Speaker 1: not getting easier at all, and how am I going
11:10
Speaker 1: to maintain this until this child is eighteen years old? Guys,
11:14
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut too. This is Kendall
11:16
Speaker 1: Keys WNAM five. The call to police came shortly before
11:21
Speaker 1: four Friday morning. Justine Johnson's two brothers had been searching
11:25
Speaker 1: for the twenty two year old at a home on
11:27
Speaker 1: Cedar Lake Road in Oscota Township. Instead, they found a
11:31
Speaker 1: small human foot protruding from a trash bag. That foot
11:35
Speaker 1: belonged to three year old Sutton Mosser, Justine Johnson's daughter.
11:39
Speaker 1: According to the affidavit, Officers located Johnson just before nine
11:44
Speaker 1: that morning walking along the Lake State Railroad tracks. Officers
11:48
Speaker 1: took her to the police department and say when she
11:50
Speaker 1: was given the news of her deceased daughter, she appeared
11:53
Speaker 1: unemotional calm. She told police she didn't want to talk
11:57
Speaker 1: about it. Prime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I
12:12
Speaker 1: just learned so much. Okay, forgive me, Jackie, but I
12:16
Speaker 1: want to hear that again. The call to police came
12:19
Speaker 1: shortly before four Friday morning. Justine Johnson's two brothers had
12:23
Speaker 1: been searching for the twenty two year old at a
12:26
Speaker 1: home on Cedar Lake Road in Oscota Township. Instead, they
12:29
Speaker 1: found a small human foot protruding from a trash bag.
12:33
Speaker 1: That foot belonged to three year old Sutton Mosser, Justine
12:37
Speaker 1: Johnson's daughter. According to the affidavit, Officers located Johnson just
12:42
Speaker 1: before nine that morning, walking along the Lake State Railroad tracks.
12:46
Speaker 1: Officers took her to the police department and say when
12:49
Speaker 1: she was given the news of her deceased daughter, she
12:51
Speaker 1: appeared unemotional calm. She told police she didn't want to
12:56
Speaker 1: talk about it. Okay, so many things to die say
12:59
Speaker 1: try there a lot of bombs went off in the
13:02
Speaker 1: background when I was hearing that. The first is that
13:05
Speaker 1: it's at four o'clock in the morning when the two
13:09
Speaker 1: brothers find the baby. What does that tell you? Why
13:14
Speaker 1: was it four o'clock in the morning, cold waterman. They've
13:18
Speaker 1: been searching since what time and they find the baby
13:21
Speaker 1: at four am? Well, the older brother went to work
13:25
Speaker 1: in the afternoon and got home from work between three
13:28
Speaker 1: thirty four in the morning. He testified, and when he
13:31
Speaker 1: got home he asked his younger brother, you know, where's Justine?
13:35
Speaker 1: Where Sutton the daughter? And he had just gotten home himself.
13:39
Speaker 1: I've been looking for and that's when they made the discovery.
13:43
Speaker 1: M Then I learned she has found in a trash bag.
13:49
Speaker 1: To Dan Korcentina, former police chief, former sheriff us home
13:52
Speaker 1: web security, remember that Tottenham Casey Anthony put Kelly in
13:59
Speaker 1: a trash bag and threw her away like trash. And
14:04
Speaker 1: I've had so many cases where the child is put
14:07
Speaker 1: in a trash bag. How often have you seen that,
14:10
Speaker 1: Dan Corsentino, Well, I'm saying it a couple of times
14:13
Speaker 1: since State of Colorado, on once in the city where
14:16
Speaker 1: I was the sheriff. And this case where the child
14:21
Speaker 1: is placed in a trash bag and the child is
14:24
Speaker 1: completely discarded, it is a tragic case because there's a
14:29
Speaker 1: disconnect that takes place, obviously between the mother and the child,
14:34
Speaker 1: or if he will, the perpetrator and the child at
14:37
Speaker 1: that point in time. And clearly there's no child that
14:41
Speaker 1: you expect to have become a victim of a predator,
14:48
Speaker 1: like in this case of Justine Johnson where she murdered
14:51
Speaker 1: her own daughter. To doctor Kennel Crown's chief medical examiner
14:56
Speaker 1: in Houston, doctor Kennel crowns, you have done thousands and
15:00
Speaker 1: thousands of autopsies. Have you noticed that so often bodies
15:06
Speaker 1: are put in a trash bag? And what if any
15:09
Speaker 1: evidence can you the medical examiner or your investigators get
15:14
Speaker 1: from the trash bag. Trash bags are often used by
15:17
Speaker 1: individuals that are concealing a body with adults will cut
15:22
Speaker 1: them up and put them in pieces in the trash
15:25
Speaker 1: bag because they're very convenient and you can package them
15:30
Speaker 1: up and throw them out in the dumpster or wherever
15:32
Speaker 1: you want indition them. He had used a lot with
15:35
Speaker 1: children as well, because again a whole child can sit
15:37
Speaker 1: in a trash bag, and it's a very convenient way
15:40
Speaker 1: of transporting them to decrease the amount of bodily fluids
15:44
Speaker 1: that are getting around. As far as what evidence can
15:47
Speaker 1: be recovered, anything that's less in a trash bag is
15:52
Speaker 1: up for grabs for taking evidence. The bodily fluids of
15:56
Speaker 1: courts are going to be still in there, and anything
15:59
Speaker 1: else that's from the trash bag off, and people will
16:01
Speaker 1: throw other sort of trash in there that's at the
16:05
Speaker 1: seem like they used to cleaned up with brag teatures,
16:08
Speaker 1: et cetera. And that was the case here, Doctor Kendall Crowns,
16:13
Speaker 1: you're exactly correct, and let me just break it down
16:17
Speaker 1: the way I would for a jury. You said it
16:20
Speaker 1: in a very doctorately way. But trash bags don't leak,
16:26
Speaker 1: They don't leak blood or bodily fluids. They're easy, especially
16:32
Speaker 1: if they're the black trash bags, to put something in
16:36
Speaker 1: it and transport it with no one knowing what's in there.
16:41
Speaker 1: To doctor ange Arnold before I go any further, regarding
16:44
Speaker 1: the physical discoveries made in the trash bag along with
16:48
Speaker 1: this baby's body, the whole psychopathy of putting a body,
16:54
Speaker 1: a child's body in a trash bag and discarding it. Well,
16:59
Speaker 1: I'm a JD, not an MD with a specialty and psychiatry,
17:02
Speaker 1: So feel free to jomp in doctor Angie. We need
17:06
Speaker 1: you right now, Nancy, as you said the word discarded,
17:11
Speaker 1: and to me, that says so much more about the
17:14
Speaker 1: actual act of having killed this child. You know, everybody says, oh,
17:18
Speaker 1: SpongeBob made me do it, I didn't know what I
17:20
Speaker 1: was doing. Well, you knew enough about what you were
17:23
Speaker 1: doing to put the body in a trash bag so
17:26
Speaker 1: that nobody would figure find out what you had done.
17:29
Speaker 1: And it is it's just a discarding of somebody, as
17:33
Speaker 1: if someone else on the show said, like, they're just trash. So, Nancy,
17:38
Speaker 1: I believe that the biggest problem with us is that
17:41
Speaker 1: it ultimately shows a lack of attachment between the mother
17:45
Speaker 1: and the child, because, as you often say on your shows,
17:48
Speaker 1: you talk about the attachment that you have with your
17:51
Speaker 1: twins and the love that exudes from you because of
17:56
Speaker 1: that attachment that has developed between you and your twins,
18:00
Speaker 1: and that's very normal. But there are people that have
18:03
Speaker 1: babies and they do not develop an attachment with that child.
18:09
Speaker 1: There it is an attachment disorder. As far as I'm concerned,
18:13
Speaker 1: that is the only way that someone can heap this
18:17
Speaker 1: kind of violence on a young child. I knew you'd
18:20
Speaker 1: find some type of personality disorder that you could peg
18:24
Speaker 1: on this, but you unwillingly torpedoed defense Sirie of some
18:31
Speaker 1: sort of insanity because she knew enough to put her baby,
18:35
Speaker 1: this gorgeous baby, girls setting moster who just turned three,
18:40
Speaker 1: and a trash bag to get rid of evidence. Now,
18:44
Speaker 1: you don't get rid of something if you want it
18:46
Speaker 1: to be seen. Well, I'm hearing something. Oh it's doctor Angie,
18:50
Speaker 1: still talking. Go ahead, Nancy. I am not using that
18:54
Speaker 1: as an excuse at all, But I'm just trying to
18:56
Speaker 1: help people in the audience understand that there are people
19:00
Speaker 1: that do you know, everybody just thinks you have a baby.
19:03
Speaker 1: The baby's so cute. You attached to the baby, Nancy.
19:07
Speaker 1: I see it every day in my practice. Women who
19:11
Speaker 1: do not attach to the babies that they have carried
19:15
Speaker 1: and born, and for lots of different reasons. It is
19:20
Speaker 1: not an excuse, but it is something that exists. I
19:23
Speaker 1: give me one reason, give me one legitimate reason. One
19:26
Speaker 1: legitimate reason could could be postpartum depression. Okay, baby's born
19:34
Speaker 1: depression is not insanity. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we
19:54
Speaker 1: are talking about the death of a girl, a baby
19:56
Speaker 1: girl who had just celebrated her third day. As doctor
20:02
Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns pointed out, a lot of times killers put
20:06
Speaker 1: and sillery evidence into bags, trash bags, or wherever they
20:12
Speaker 1: discard a body, and that's true in this case as well.
20:16
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut number three. This is
20:18
Speaker 1: Kendall Keys to n M five. Back on Cedar Lake Road,
20:22
Speaker 1: State police were busy pouring over the scene. Inside the bags,
20:26
Speaker 1: Sutton's body was dressed in a pink and white disposable diaper,
20:30
Speaker 1: wrapped in bedding. She had been stabbed multiple times. There
20:34
Speaker 1: was also a sweatshirt and a pair of size eleven
20:37
Speaker 1: women's pants, pants that police say had quote a notable
20:41
Speaker 1: amount of blood on them. According to the Alpha, David
20:44
Speaker 1: Johnson told police that she wore size eleven pants. One
20:48
Speaker 1: brother told police he saw her wearing the sweatshirt the
20:50
Speaker 1: day before and that she was using drugs at the time.
20:54
Speaker 1: You know, this reminds me of Stacy Hanowitz. I've got
20:56
Speaker 1: so many directions in which to go right now, but
20:59
Speaker 1: space King of Pants. We all remember the Jodi Arias
21:03
Speaker 1: case right where she murdered her lover or Travis Alexander
21:08
Speaker 1: by stabbing him I believe twenty nine, although they couldn't
21:10
Speaker 1: really tell because there's so many stab wounds. They started
21:13
Speaker 1: overlapping each other, but about twenty nine times, As shot
21:17
Speaker 1: him in the head, left him in the shower to decompose,
21:19
Speaker 1: because even though they had broken up, she was angry
21:24
Speaker 1: he was taking another date on a trip to Chink
21:26
Speaker 1: to Kim Kom. Now, this is why I'm bringing her up,
21:29
Speaker 1: Stacy Honowitz. She left her digital camera in the dirty
21:38
Speaker 1: clothes that the bloody clothes that she put in the washer,
21:43
Speaker 1: and police found it and on the camera they found
21:47
Speaker 1: a digital photo of her leg wearing her pants that
21:51
Speaker 1: belonged to her at the crime scene. There was something
21:55
Speaker 1: else in the photo, like part of the dead body
21:57
Speaker 1: or blood on the floor, something that placed those pants
22:01
Speaker 1: and that leg at the scene at the time of
22:05
Speaker 1: the murder. It's not the first time a pair of
22:08
Speaker 1: pants have been involved. Oh I just thought of another one.
22:11
Speaker 1: My longtime friend and colleague, Daniel Horowitz's wife. She was
22:17
Speaker 1: a beautiful on the inside and I spent a lot
22:21
Speaker 1: of time with them. She was murdered and a pair
22:25
Speaker 1: of jeans, just a pair of blue jeans, have been
22:29
Speaker 1: taken from the home. Turned out the purp had taken
22:33
Speaker 1: them to wear them because his clothes were so bloody.
22:37
Speaker 1: So pants. Unusually, Stacy Hanowitz enter in as very critical
22:44
Speaker 1: evidence in a lot of cases. Explain it really makes
22:47
Speaker 1: sense when you break it down. Well, listen, I mean
22:50
Speaker 1: the old adages criminals are stupid. We know that. We
22:54
Speaker 1: see half the time cases are solved because the criminal
22:57
Speaker 1: has left a princess at the scene. And I don't
22:59
Speaker 1: mean physical print of his fingers. I'm talking about some
23:03
Speaker 1: sort of article of clothing and in this case pants.
23:06
Speaker 1: And so when we're analyzing these cases and when we're
23:10
Speaker 1: looking for evidence to bring into court, that's a crucial
23:13
Speaker 1: piece of evidence that's going to match up. And what
23:16
Speaker 1: you have here is exactly what the doctor has previously said.
23:20
Speaker 1: You have somebody that has discarded this child, and in
23:25
Speaker 1: discarding this child, it's almost like she wants to get
23:28
Speaker 1: caught because she's leaving something of herself there, and we
23:32
Speaker 1: have all of these things to bring into court. Is evidence,
23:35
Speaker 1: the pants, it's discarding, the leaving whatever it is found
23:39
Speaker 1: in the bag, coupled with her ability to say to
23:42
Speaker 1: the detective, I don't want to talk about this right now.
23:45
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that for a moment. Now. I've had
23:47
Speaker 1: mini mini defense lawyers argue quote, and they always use
23:51
Speaker 1: the same tired phrase. There's no playbook for grief that
23:54
Speaker 1: is complete and total byesque. I want to tell that
23:57
Speaker 1: to a jury. I'd be mad if you didn't. But
24:00
Speaker 1: when you clam up and say I don't want to
24:03
Speaker 1: talk about it, I would have had a million questions.
24:06
Speaker 1: Where is she, what happened? Who did this? Where's the body?
24:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to her right now this minute. I
24:13
Speaker 1: can't stay and talk to you. I've got to get
24:14
Speaker 1: to my daughter. That's what I would expect to happen.
24:17
Speaker 1: But none of that happened. When mommy was told her daughter,
24:20
Speaker 1: her baby, if three years old, was dead. Take a
24:23
Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. This is Jamie Sheera w
24:27
Speaker 1: n M five. Who is this little girl? Listen? It
24:31
Speaker 1: was full life was it very smart. She knew so
24:38
Speaker 1: many colors. She could come almost to thirty. Alissa Johnson
24:42
Speaker 1: remembering her three year old granddaughter son and Mosser as
24:46
Speaker 1: a beautiful and bright young girl who could put a
24:48
Speaker 1: smile on any one's face. The two were clothes. I
24:52
Speaker 1: wasn't grandmother, I was grandmom. The baby would be more
24:56
Speaker 1: than anythink. She was so close to me. She always
24:59
Speaker 1: waited I'm going to come home for Johnson tells TV
25:03
Speaker 1: five she was downstaged when she learned about Sutton's death,
25:06
Speaker 1: the details devastating. The young girl had suffered multiple staff
25:10
Speaker 1: wounds to her chest. Her body had been found in
25:13
Speaker 1: a trash bag Friday morning at a home on Cedar
25:16
Speaker 1: Lake Road in Oscolda township where she lived with her
25:20
Speaker 1: grandmom and mother Justine Johnson. I don't tell me it's
25:25
Speaker 1: that true that they needed to get to my baby.
25:29
Speaker 1: Couldn't be happening. Let's see what you're hearing right there?
25:35
Speaker 1: Is you are hearing Alyssa Johnson, not the mother, the grandmom,
25:41
Speaker 1: and she is referring to Sutton as her baby. It
25:46
Speaker 1: reminds me so much of top Mom, Casey Anthony, her
25:51
Speaker 1: mother Cindy Anthony was really raising Casey at Kelly as
25:55
Speaker 1: her baby, because top Mom certainly was not taking care
26:00
Speaker 1: of her two. Doctor Kendall Crowns, chief medical Examiner a
26:04
Speaker 1: Tyrant County Fort Worth. Multiple stab wounds is a particularly
26:09
Speaker 1: heinous way to murder someone. You're within a foot of
26:14
Speaker 1: them as you stab them over and over and over,
26:18
Speaker 1: unlike putting a pillow over their face where you don't
26:20
Speaker 1: see their face and they just die in a couple
26:25
Speaker 1: of minutes. Unlike shooting someone at a distance like a sniper,
26:29
Speaker 1: where you never get up close to the victim. They're
26:31
Speaker 1: not it's not personal, you never in contact with them.
26:35
Speaker 1: Multiple stab wounds that is nasty. Doctor Kendall Crowns, Yeah,
26:41
Speaker 1: I agree. It's so very up close and personally. You're
26:44
Speaker 1: usually right on top of them with a knife, stabbing
26:48
Speaker 1: them over and over. And also most people don't die
26:51
Speaker 1: right away with stab wounds, so there's a lot of movement,
26:54
Speaker 1: a lot of screaming involved, a lot of blood being
26:57
Speaker 1: thrown about. So stabbing is a very rough way to
27:00
Speaker 1: kill the money. You know, it's amazing to me, Cole
27:05
Speaker 1: Waterman that the woman that we just heard crying about
27:11
Speaker 1: baby Sutton has this to say take a listen to
27:15
Speaker 1: our cut for w n M. TV five spoke with
27:19
Speaker 1: Justine Johnson's mother, Sutton's grandmother, Elisa Johnson, on Monday. She
27:24
Speaker 1: maintained her daughter's innocence and said she hoped for justice
27:27
Speaker 1: for her granddaughter. I don't believe Justine could ever do
27:30
Speaker 1: something like that because she would always teach Sutton that
27:35
Speaker 1: she is kind, she is beautiful, and she is loved,
27:39
Speaker 1: and she would have stop it in Sutton everything. Johnson
27:43
Speaker 1: also told TV five she has been the target of
27:45
Speaker 1: angry comments regarding her daughter and that she remains firm
27:49
Speaker 1: and her support of her. I will be there for
27:51
Speaker 1: Justine no matter what. Anybody calls me. That is my child.
27:56
Speaker 1: Nobody understands that, and they really don't A mother's true love. Okay,
28:02
Speaker 1: let me understand something called Waterman crime reporter mlive dot com.
28:07
Speaker 1: I agree with standing by your child no matter what
28:10
Speaker 1: and trying to help them. Well, what good does it
28:13
Speaker 1: do baby Sutton For grandma to whine that she's getting
28:18
Speaker 1: quote angry comments from people when she keeps declaring Justine
28:22
Speaker 1: Johnson's innocent as her as, what good it does herd
28:25
Speaker 1: deceased granddaughter. I can't say, I have no idea. I mean,
28:28
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what the mother or grandmother is going
28:30
Speaker 1: through in this situation of your daughter is accused of
28:34
Speaker 1: killing your granddaughter and what you know, an emotional psychological
28:38
Speaker 1: tool that would take on heard having to be stuck
28:42
Speaker 1: in between all of this crime stories with Nancy Grace.
28:57
Speaker 1: Granny doesn't seem to be able to except her daughter,
29:01
Speaker 1: Justine Johnson had anything to do with the brutal murder
29:05
Speaker 1: of the grandchild Sutton, who just turned three years old
29:09
Speaker 1: a couple of days before, even though her daughter's bloody
29:13
Speaker 1: pants were found in the trash bag with the child's body. Well,
29:17
Speaker 1: maybe this will convince her. Remember when we said SpongeBob
29:21
Speaker 1: made me do it? Well, the chickens are coming home
29:25
Speaker 1: to rus. Take a listen to our cut seven ABC twelve.
29:28
Speaker 1: Justine Johnson told an investigator that she was watching SpongeBob
29:32
Speaker 1: on TV and had an hallucination. The cartoon character told
29:36
Speaker 1: her to kill her child or face death herself. He
29:40
Speaker 1: was at this Oscota township home in September when twenty
29:42
Speaker 1: two year old Justine Johnson's brother made the grizzly discovery
29:46
Speaker 1: the body of Justine's three year old daughter, Sutton, was
29:48
Speaker 1: found in a trash bag. She had been stabbed at death.
29:51
Speaker 1: Johnson was not at the home when her daughter's body
29:54
Speaker 1: was discovered, and an affidavit indicates police officers founder four
29:57
Speaker 1: and a half hours later, walking on railroad tracks us
30:00
Speaker 1: go to township. A family member said she had been
30:02
Speaker 1: using drugs. Johnson was questioned but told the officers she
30:06
Speaker 1: did not want to talk about the death of her child.
30:08
Speaker 1: I bet she doesn't. What exactly did she say? Jacole Waterman,
30:12
Speaker 1: crime reporter mlive dot com. According to the affidavits, she
30:17
Speaker 1: didn't really say much of anything. She acted calm and
30:19
Speaker 1: unemotional when the cops informed her of her daughter's death,
30:24
Speaker 1: and apparently she just shut down and said, you don't
30:28
Speaker 1: want to talk anymore, And that was extended her statement
30:30
Speaker 1: to the police. Wow. Stacy Hanna Wentz, Assistant States Attorney
30:34
Speaker 1: Joinings out of Florida. Stacey, you know what, Yeah, I
30:39
Speaker 1: almost like it better. What a defendant does that so
30:43
Speaker 1: I can argue to a jury how little they care
30:47
Speaker 1: about the victim? Now? Did you hear a conflicting statement
30:50
Speaker 1: earlier that SpongeBob told her to either kill her child
30:55
Speaker 1: or die herself. You know a lot of people would
30:57
Speaker 1: have chosen to die themselves rather than kill their own child. Well,
31:02
Speaker 1: the theme is there. I mean, any prosecutor trying this
31:04
Speaker 1: case would say, here's the same. She wanted to kill
31:07
Speaker 1: the kid, she discarded the kids, she put the kid
31:09
Speaker 1: in a trash bag, and then she didn't want to
31:10
Speaker 1: talk about it. So I mean everything and the panther
31:14
Speaker 1: and are in the trash bag. So I mean, unless
31:18
Speaker 1: she's got the best doctor in the world, that's going
31:20
Speaker 1: to say at the time of the murder, she did
31:23
Speaker 1: not know the difference between right and wrong, which I
31:25
Speaker 1: beg to differ would be very difficult because she knew
31:27
Speaker 1: exactly what to do with the body afterwards. So that's
31:30
Speaker 1: what she's facing. She's gonna look, she's gonna pull on
31:34
Speaker 1: in Sanny defense. We all know that because the evidence
31:37
Speaker 1: is overwhelming in the stase that she did it, and
31:39
Speaker 1: she was saying, what was the other evidence called waterman. Well,
31:44
Speaker 1: in addition to the clothing found with Sutton's body, which
31:50
Speaker 1: seems to have been indeed her mother's, I believe a
31:54
Speaker 1: knife was recovered as the scene, but I'm not positive
31:56
Speaker 1: on that one. Investigators found several bloodstains on a hallway
32:01
Speaker 1: closet door, on living room couches, items in a bedroom.
32:06
Speaker 1: A forensic scientists testify to stated that three knives were
32:10
Speaker 1: found in a bedroom. The baby's body was wrapped in
32:15
Speaker 1: a comforter inside of the bag, along with a pair
32:19
Speaker 1: of jeans that tested positive for human blood, sudden headstab
32:23
Speaker 1: boons in her neck, chest, and abdomen, with one large
32:28
Speaker 1: wound exposing part of the child's small intestines. The report
32:34
Speaker 1: also said a bathtub upstairs was partially full of water
32:38
Speaker 1: that showed a red tint consistent with blood. In the
32:45
Speaker 1: back room of the home, he found a blue tote
32:48
Speaker 1: bag with two garbage bags stacked on top with a
32:52
Speaker 1: foot exposed. Okay, let me understand the trash bag with
33:01
Speaker 1: the foot protruding was found in the home cold waterman.
33:05
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes, it seems that the trash bag
33:09
Speaker 1: and another trash bag were in a circular blue plastic
33:12
Speaker 1: tote in kind of a back room of Michigan mudroom.
33:16
Speaker 1: And they're called here, I believe, and that's where her brothers,
33:20
Speaker 1: when looking for her, found the bag with Sutton's foot
33:23
Speaker 1: sticking out of it. Yeah, let's take a listen to
33:26
Speaker 1: our Terry Camp ABC twelve, Johnson told an investigator with
33:30
Speaker 1: Child Protective Services that she had been hallucinating and she
33:34
Speaker 1: heard a cartoon character tell her something. Jim Baccarella is
33:37
Speaker 1: the Yiasco County prosecutor. She said that the television, specifically SpongeBob,
33:46
Speaker 1: told her that she had to do this to the
33:50
Speaker 1: child or she would retail. While Johnson has been found
33:53
Speaker 1: competent for trial, Baccarella says there's a second component to
33:57
Speaker 1: a psychological exam in criminal matters, value regarding criminal responsibility,
34:03
Speaker 1: which is basically whether or not she knew the difference
34:07
Speaker 1: between right and wrong at the time this event occurred.
34:11
Speaker 1: That evaluation might take place as Johnson was bound over
34:14
Speaker 1: for trial on felony murder in first degree child abuse
34:17
Speaker 1: charges that would be used if she chose to raise
34:22
Speaker 1: the affirmative defense of not guilty betteries of insanity. Now,
34:27
Speaker 1: in case you're wondering, in case you don't have children
34:29
Speaker 1: and don't know who SpongeBob is. He is a square
34:33
Speaker 1: yellow sponge named SpongeBob square Pants because his pants are
34:37
Speaker 1: square because his body is a sponge. He lives in
34:41
Speaker 1: a pineapple with his pet snail Gary in the city
34:47
Speaker 1: of Bikini Bottom on the floor of the Pacific Ocean.
34:52
Speaker 1: He works as a fry cook at the Krusty Crab
34:56
Speaker 1: and during his time off, SpongeBob has a knack for
34:59
Speaker 1: attracting trouble with his star his starfish best friend Patrick
35:06
Speaker 1: arrogant octopus, squidward tentacles. His neighbor dislikes SpongeBob because of
35:12
Speaker 1: his childlike behavior. So SpongeBob is the bad guy in
35:18
Speaker 1: this scenario. You know what, Justine Johnson, You're gonna rot
35:23
Speaker 1: in hell. Woman with a little pit stop, with life
35:27
Speaker 1: without parole, I can only pray, if not more. It's
35:30
Speaker 1: not the first time a parent has taken out their
35:33
Speaker 1: hatred and loathing and anxiety in frustration on a child.
35:38
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fifteen from Newsweek. This
35:42
Speaker 1: mom said, not SpongeBob, but the devil made her do it. Oh,
35:46
Speaker 1: the devil rears his ugly head again. Listen, she said
35:49
Speaker 1: the devil made her do it. And this week a
35:51
Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist basically agreed. In a testimony this week, doctor
35:56
Speaker 1: Philip Presnick said that elsbe at a Placoska on trial
35:59
Speaker 1: for killing two children and two dogs, had a psychotic
36:01
Speaker 1: belief that devils had entered the children and that by
36:04
Speaker 1: taking their lives, she was allowing the children to enter heaven.
36:07
Speaker 1: Resnick added that Plakoska, who was pleaded not guilty by
36:10
Speaker 1: reason of insanity, could not fully understand her criminal actions
36:14
Speaker 1: when she stabbed her son Justin plus a playmate, Olivia Dwarski,
36:17
Speaker 1: and the dogs. On October thirty of twenty twelve, The
36:20
Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune reports Resnick had examined Plakoska for the trial
36:24
Speaker 1: and testified that she claimed she saw black shadow and
36:27
Speaker 1: believed the demon was entering the children, then the shadow
36:29
Speaker 1: urged Plakoska to kill them. The testimony from Resnick, a
36:32
Speaker 1: professor at Case Western University in Cleveland who has been
36:35
Speaker 1: involved with other demonic possession cases such as Jeffrey Dahmer,
36:38
Speaker 1: is countered to the prosecution case. Okay to you, doctor
36:41
Speaker 1: Angela Arnold Psychiatrists joining us out of Atlanta, the devil, SpongeBob,
36:46
Speaker 1: all sorts of entities directing parents, specifically mothers, to kill
36:50
Speaker 1: their children. Help me out, doddre Angie. Of course, if
36:54
Speaker 1: that's true, people are going to consider that a psychosis,
36:59
Speaker 1: and it's all and it's often used in a defense.
37:02
Speaker 1: I think it's very hard to prove. Now, I will
37:06
Speaker 1: say doctor Resnick is he works on an awful lot
37:11
Speaker 1: of these cases. He is an amazing forensic psychiatrist. Did
37:15
Speaker 1: I ask you that because I don't remember asking you that. No,
37:18
Speaker 1: But I'll ask you about parents saying that they were
37:23
Speaker 1: told to kill their children. I believe that's what I
37:26
Speaker 1: asked you about. I know, and you know what, Nancy,
37:29
Speaker 1: what I think it's a very hard thing to prove.
37:32
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile Let me just ask you this,
37:35
Speaker 1: if it's even possible, which I do not believe that
37:38
Speaker 1: it is in any reasonable minded Gerrar, how do you
37:42
Speaker 1: reconcile the fact that mommy did not confess when she
37:47
Speaker 1: was asked what happened, said she didn't want to talk
37:49
Speaker 1: about it, left the premises, and hid out for hours
37:53
Speaker 1: on end from her home so she wouldn't be found.
37:56
Speaker 1: Hid the child's body after murdering her in a trash hack.
38:01
Speaker 1: That tells me she knew what she did was wrong. Right,
38:06
Speaker 1: So how can you know at the time of the
38:07
Speaker 1: incident what you did was wrong yet still be insane?
38:10
Speaker 1: Because I would submit to a jury that's impossible. I
38:14
Speaker 1: agree with you, Nancy, I completely agree with you. The
38:17
Speaker 1: fact that she hid the body in a trash bag
38:21
Speaker 1: is very significant to de course a Tina former police chief,
38:25
Speaker 1: sheriff and Homeland Security advisor Way and Dan. The evidence
38:29
Speaker 1: speaks for itself in this case. This is a crime
38:32
Speaker 1: of rage, a disconnect between the mother and the child
38:37
Speaker 1: in this situation. And when you started making a look
38:40
Speaker 1: at the collection of evidence, which is a smoking gun,
38:45
Speaker 1: thirteen finger prints that are found, palm finger and palm
38:49
Speaker 1: prints there recovered from the toe bag, in addition to
38:53
Speaker 1: the blood, in addition to the nines, this case is
38:57
Speaker 1: simply going to be one in Lesson. There's some case
39:02
Speaker 1: made for this insanity plea. But this woman's going away
39:06
Speaker 1: for a long time and she should in this jurisdiction
39:09
Speaker 1: of Michigan, col Waterman, I do not believe they have
39:12
Speaker 1: the death penalty or do they No, Michigan's a non
39:15
Speaker 1: death penalty, states, but a conviction of first degree of murder,
39:20
Speaker 1: which she has charged with, mandates a life without parole sentence.
39:26
Speaker 1: It's not just moms. I want to remind you of
39:28
Speaker 1: a case we just covered here at Crime Stories, and
39:30
Speaker 1: you will remember it. Immediately. It's a case of Matthew
39:34
Speaker 1: Taylor Coleman, who was a surf instructor, surfing instructor to
39:40
Speaker 1: the wealthy and privileged, and he murdered all his children
39:45
Speaker 1: because he bought into QAnon and Illuminati conspiracy theories and
39:53
Speaker 1: thought his children had quote serpent DNA, serpent DNA. Does
40:01
Speaker 1: anybody on the panel know what illuminati is? Illuminati is
40:06
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that there's a consortium or cabal of rich, elite,
40:12
Speaker 1: highly influential people that essentially control all world events. Anything
40:17
Speaker 1: happens in the world, the Illuminati organizing it, essentially is
40:23
Speaker 1: what they believe. And in that case, this dad, otherwise
40:29
Speaker 1: perfectly saying teaching or rich kids and soccer moms who
40:35
Speaker 1: have time to go get surfing lessons all day long,
40:38
Speaker 1: bought into QAnon and Illuminati theories online and was convinced
40:46
Speaker 1: that his children had surpent DNA. Now you see right there,
40:50
Speaker 1: I did a bad thing, Stacy Honwitz. I was kind
40:53
Speaker 1: of smart. I kind of laughed. But the children are dead. Well,
40:57
Speaker 1: we see so much of this, I mean, this is enough.
41:00
Speaker 1: New Man. See we've been covering these cases for a
41:02
Speaker 1: long time. Remember the woman in Texas that drowned their
41:05
Speaker 1: five kids in the bathtub methodically yeah, I mean so,
41:12
Speaker 1: And we see the difference. We know that in these
41:14
Speaker 1: cases they're not confessing, they're not saying yes, it's me,
41:18
Speaker 1: I did it. They're getting doctors on board because they
41:21
Speaker 1: are going to put forth in insanity defense. They have
41:24
Speaker 1: to be able to say if they didn't know the
41:26
Speaker 1: difference between right and wrong, And we see in these
41:29
Speaker 1: cases that clearly, in this case, you know exactly what
41:32
Speaker 1: to do in order to discard the body. Now, you
41:35
Speaker 1: might want to look at a case where the insanity
41:38
Speaker 1: defense is used, and it has been one because a
41:42
Speaker 1: parent has killed a child and in the moment when
41:45
Speaker 1: the police are called in, the parents is hovering over
41:48
Speaker 1: this child, trying to comfort them or do something for them, screaming,
41:51
Speaker 1: oh my god, what did I do? What did I do?
41:54
Speaker 1: Then we might see a situation where there was in
41:57
Speaker 1: fact a psychotic break at the time and the person
42:00
Speaker 1: didn't know the difference between right and wrong. But when
42:02
Speaker 1: you have somebody that clearly wants to clean up the
42:05
Speaker 1: crime scene and not go anywhere near it and not
42:08
Speaker 1: talk to the police, you are hard t used to
42:10
Speaker 1: be able to stand in front of a jury and
42:12
Speaker 1: say I didn't know the difference between right and wrong
42:15
Speaker 1: when I killed this child. And I think that's what
42:17
Speaker 1: we're dealing with in all of these cases, the same scenario.
42:21
Speaker 1: And we have the mom who kills her children, beats
42:25
Speaker 1: her boys in the head with a rock, telling her
42:28
Speaker 1: an angel, saying that an angel made her do it.
42:32
Speaker 1: I mean, the list of the real killers is very
42:38
Speaker 1: long and day, but it always boils down to one
42:41
Speaker 1: of the parents committing murder on their child because they
42:46
Speaker 1: were frustrated and didn't want to have the child anymore.
42:50
Speaker 1: Then the theory of psychotic break rears it, said Cole Waterman.
42:56
Speaker 1: What is next for this mother? Next up? Her case
43:00
Speaker 1: has been bound over to the circuit court, so her
43:02
Speaker 1: options going forward are either a trial by jury or
43:06
Speaker 1: judge or I don't know if any plea negotiations would
43:10
Speaker 1: be going on in the case like this, but who knows. Yeah,
43:14
Speaker 1: you're right about that. I'm sure the prosecutors are want
43:16
Speaker 1: to keep that a secret if they were plating this
43:18
Speaker 1: out cheap. We wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace Scrum's story,
43:23
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye Friend,