Latest / Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD / 312: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Mold Illness & Complex Chronic Disease with Dr. Kelly McCann

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312: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: Mold Illness & Complex Chronic Disease with Dr. Kelly McCann · Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD

• 0:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine.
• 0:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm your host Dr. Jill and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation.
• 0:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Join me as I interview medical experts, renowned thought leaders, innovators of all types and helping you on your way, bringing you information for optimal performance and healing.
• 0:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Today is no different.
• 0:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We're going to dive into environmental toxicity and mold related illness, mast cell and even the psych behind illness.
• 0:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You'll want to stay tuned.
• 0:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr. Kelly McCann is a favorite and a repeat guest.
• 0:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: She'll be coming here on the show and I will introduce her in just one moment.
• 0:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Before I do, I want to remind you of a couple things.
• 0:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you haven't got a copy of my book Unexpected, you can get that assigned copy@Dr.jill health.com just pick up your book there.
• 0:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you want a certain sign to a friend, a family member or yourself, just put that in the notes when you check out.
• 0:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Also want to remind you as the weather's warming up, one of our best selling Dr. Joe beauty products is this year defense 46 SPF tinted.
• 1:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: People are loving this.
• 1:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It is my favorite product to grab and go if I'm going out for a hike and I don't want any makeup, I just want to protect myself from the sun.
• 1:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It is a bestseller.
• 1:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's back in stock.
• 1:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can find that@drjillhealth.com among many other products and services.
• 1:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And last thing is if you are looking for a functional medicine practitioner to help you with complex chronic mast cell related illness, long Covid mold related illness or other infections or neurodegenerative diseases et.
• 1:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We are accepting new patients at Flatiron Functional Medicine and you can call 303-993-7910 to schedule or get a free intro call with one of the providers if you're interested.
• 1:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can also find all of that information on my website jillcarnahan.com which is of course always in the show.
• 1:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Notes.
• 1:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Now I want to introduce our guest, one of my most favorite people in this space and Just a beautiful soul.
• 2:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr. Kelly McCann is a board certified physician internal Medicine and Pediatrics trained in functional, integrated and environmental medic.
• 2:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Known for her expertise in mold illness, chronic infections, mast cell and complex chronic condition.
• 2:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: She integrates sinus science, also in the sinuses science, intuition and spiritual psychology to help people heal at the deepest level.
• 2:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Through her private practice, the Spring center and her upcoming transformational program which you'll hear about Today, she guides clients from suffering to sovereignry, reclaiming their health, purpose and their power.
• 2:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You will not want to miss this episode, and if you like what you see, please share it with someone you love.
• 2:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, let's get to the show with Dr. Kelly McCann.
• 2:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr. Kelly McCann.
• 2:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We are friends and colleagues and have been in the same spaces for a long time.
• 2:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it is always fun to have a friend on the podcast and someone I deeply respect so much, in the same field as I am and seeing the same kinds of patients.
• 2:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And today I'm pretty sure by the end of this might end up being one of the most popular episodes because so many people listening are dealing with mold related illness, complex chronic disease, and things in the environment that are affecting their health.
• 3:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm sure, like you, a lot of times you see these people come in and they don't know what's going on or they've been giving some new diagnosis of autoimmunity or cancer or neurodegenerative disease or something going on there.
• 3:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And in that realm, then you start to investigate and you find, oh, you ask about their house and ask about their environment.
• 3:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So stay tuned guys.
• 3:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We're gonna dive deep into this environment and how it affects our bodies and minds.
• 3:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And some of the symptoms you may be experiencing, you may not even know it.
• 3:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But by the end of this episode, you might start to question your house and your home, your place of work and your, you know, the kinds of things you do.
• 3:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So we're gonna talk about.
• 3:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But Dr. McCann, I want to just start with story and I always love to hear kind of, how did you get into this complex chronic world of functional and integrative medicine?
• 3:51
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You know, I always wanted to be able to continue to help people and first did integrative medicine, functional medicine, and you know, was doing like autoimmunity and gut health and hormones and thyroid and.
• 4:06
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then I would get more sick people and.
• 4:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And while I was in my training integrative medicine, I met Lynn Patrick, who is a naturopath who just changed my life, changed my perspective.
• 4:24
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And this was at the University of Arizona's program for integrative medicine with Dr. Andrew Weil.
• 4:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And Lynn came in and like blew my mind, blew our, all of our minds about environmental toxins.
• 4:35
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And she had studied with another naturopathic physician named Walter Crinian.
• 4:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yes, two of my favorites.
• 4:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And sadly, Walter isn't with us anymore.
• 4:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But I was able to study a year long program with him and that was a huge aha moment.
• 4:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Learning about all the environmental chemicals that we're exposed to and how they impact our health.
• 5:02
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Things like, and this was in the kind of early to mid 2000, so long before people were talking about environmental chemicals and plastics and things like that.
• 5:14
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So Dr. Crinian and Lynn, Dr. Patrick talked about flame retardants and PCBs and the older pesticides and the whole Alphabet of environmental chemicals.
• 5:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And have to admit, Jill, it was a little depressing.
• 5:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Definitely ended up with some existential angst thinking about all the chemicals and how are we ever going to deal with these tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of chemicals.
• 5:44
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But it completely altered my perspective on health and illness.
• 5:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And it's really this underlying root cause of why so many people are sick.
• 5:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We look around and we're like, why is everybody getting diabetes and obese and why are children all having allergies and why is the peanut allergy and autism rate skyrocketing?
• 6:08
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's not just the vaccines, it's the environmental chemicals.
• 6:14
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We are drinking, eating, bathing, breathing environmental chemicals and our total load has just skyrocketed.
• 6:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And after I wanted to start with the story, so after I studied with Walter, one of my colleagues said, you should really look at this guy, Richie Shoemaker, who's doing some work on mold.
• 6:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And I said, oh yeah, I'm going to do that.
• 6:41
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That sounds cool.
• 6:43
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so I learned about mold and started treating mold illness and looking for it.
• 6:47
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then I realized there's actually some infections there of the people who are not getting better when we're just treating mold.
• 6:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So I had to look into Lyme and other tick borne related illnesses.
• 7:00
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then all of a sudden I was dealing with all of those things too.
• 7:05
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then people came in sicker and sicker and more and more sensitive and learned about mast cell activation syndrome and Lawrence Afrin and started studying with Dr. Afrin.
• 7:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And here I am.
• 7:20
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And along the way I had my own issues with mold.
• 7:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I've lived in 12 houses in Orange county and three of them were so moldy I had to leave several other more very moldy too.
• 7:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But I left for other reasons.
• 7:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But yeah, it's definitely been a moldy journey.
• 7:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then mold unpacks and unmasks so many other things.
• 7:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I didn't know that I had Lyme disease, even though I grew up in upstate New York or Bartonella for that matter.
• 7:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And yeah, developed all these allergies and sensitivities and many of them have gotten better through the mold exposures and treating some mast cell stuff.
• 8:04
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But yeah, it's been a personal journey as long as a profession as well as a professional journey along with my patients.
• 8:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 8:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You know, I knew we had a lot in common and I also know you look at the psycho spiritual parts of human beings as your patients.
• 8:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And so there's so much.
• 8:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's funny because in this world of literally tens of thousands of great functional medicine doctors, there's only literally a handful where I'm like, I, she gets it and I love her and we're on the same wavelength.
• 8:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you're one of those that I just hold in great esteem because it's such a parallel.
• 8:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And even hearing you talk, I bet were in the same class with Walter Cranion in Arizona.
• 8:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like I remember that little tiny lecture hall where he'd do his little classes.
• 8:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I bet you were in one of those same time frame for me and the same thing with Patrick, Elyn Patrick and Walter Cranian, which is why he was such a loss when he passed away for me.
• 8:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I'm sure you as well, because they really opened my eyes as well to the environmental toxic.
• 9:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So I had no idea that was so common because even now I like, I love Lynn.
• 9:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We have had some podcasts together.
• 9:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Love talking to.
• 9:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: She is just a wealth of knowledge.
• 9:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Recently we talked about microplastics and it blew my mind on, you know, up how big a deal that is.
• 9:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then Walter just, I always had the deepest respect.
• 9:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: In fact, he was the one that I quote all the time as saying, 80% of our environmental toxic load is the air that we breathe.
• 9:21
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And because most people don't realize that just taking a breath is dangerous if they have, you know, something going on in their house.
• 9:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So.
• 9:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Wow.
• 9:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then your own experience with mold and then the mast cell and it is really like if you're a curious physician like you and I, what happens is you have these complex cases and if you don't have the answers, you just have to keep going deeper and say, well, why?
• 9:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What else is going on?
• 9:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then we're inevitable led to these other things.
• 9:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And now mast cell is at an all time high.
• 9:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think Afrin quoted as 17% of the population.
• 9:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: My population is probably like 60, 70%.
• 9:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right, right.
• 9:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Just here.
• 9:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So anyway, what a blessing.
• 9:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm sorry that you had to suffer, but it does breed the most compassionate, understanding physicians when we walk through that ourselves.
• 10:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because there's some understanding that comes from the experience that never can happen in medical training.
• 10:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And again, you and I share that.
• 10:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So one Thing I heard in your story and I think is true, and I want to kind of start with this frame is 20 years ago when I started seeing patients.
• 10:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: A little over 20 years, it was thyroiditis and maybe menopause and these things.
• 10:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: In three to six months they come back and they feel better and they're like, hey, Dr. Jill, I'm much better, let's see you in a year.
• 10:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it was fairly easy, really fun, loved what I was doing.
• 10:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And now there is a change.
• 10:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's this trajectory towards increasing complexity.
• 10:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: People aren't getting well as quickly and there's so many other factors because we not only have to be a physician, but a psychologist and an environmental expert and a remediation building biologist.
• 10:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You name all the roles that we take on.
• 10:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 10:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What's your frame on how and why that we are seeing this more complex presentation than before?
• 10:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Thank you for this question.
• 10:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's a great question.
• 11:00
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think it's multifactorial, of course.
• 11:04
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think that in the past 20 years, the number of environmental chemicals has skyrocketed.
• 11:13
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I also really think that the underpinning framework of why we get sick in the first place is that disconnection from self, from spirit, the disconnection from our bodies.
• 11:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: The way that I've been talking about it most recently is in Western culture, particularly in Western medicine, we have this idea that my mind is who I am.
• 11:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And if my mind and my will want to go this way and my body is refusing and going in a different direction, we're at odds.
• 11:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: My body is against me.
• 11:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I want that.
• 11:53
  Dr. Kelly McCann: My body won't comply.
• 11:55
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I have to fix it.
• 11:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's broken.
• 12:00
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And my offering to your listeners and the realization aha.
• 12:06
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Moment that I had was that our bodies are always doing their best to protect us, to keep us safe, to keep us alive.
• 12:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so this entire construct of my body's against me, is it possible that's actually not true?
• 12:26
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And if it's not true, what is happening?
• 12:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Why is there so much disconnect between what I want and what my body is able to do or not able to do?
• 12:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 12:40
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So if we start to be curious about this question, what happens is we start to see the body as sending messages that perhaps the way that we're being in the world is not really authentically true to who we really are.
• 13:04
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are we people pleasing?
• 13:06
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are we berating ourselves?
• 13:08
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are we beating ourselves up?
• 13:10
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are we filled with self judgment, doubt, anxiety about who we are and how we're supposed to be?
• 13:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And what I've come To really believe is that when we don't love ourselves, when we don't honor our choices, when we don't honor our voice, our creativity, we hold that inside of ourselves.
• 13:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: All of the.
• 13:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And along with all the other emotions of all the other pain that we've experienced throughout our lifetime, the times we thought that our parents didn't love us or didn't want us or rejected who were and we had to cover up who we really are in order to get love, in order to be cared for and supported and, you know, nurtured.
• 13:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And it's those internal beliefs tied to unexpressed emotions that are showing up in the body as symptoms and sensations.
• 14:11
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so not only is the body on our side, it actually provides the map to which we can rediscover ourselves and make changes so that we don't have to keep perpetuating this disconnect.
• 14:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And it's getting louder and harder and harder because we need to change.
• 14:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We need to change how we're treating ourselves.
• 14:41
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We need to change how we are inter connected body, emotions, mind and spirit.
• 14:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys, going to interrupt the show for just a moment to remind you if you need products and services to help you with mast cell activation, mold related illness, detoxification, or even Dr. Jill Beauty to make your skin shine brightly, you can find all of that and more at Dr. Jill health.com Dr. Jo health.com Check it out.
• 15:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Products and services.
• 15:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Get a discount on your first order.
• 15:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And let's get back to the show.
• 15:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What a beautiful way.
• 15:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like you just put that together so spectacularly because it's so true.
• 15:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And, and again, 20 years ago weren't, we maybe kind of knew a felt sense, but certainly not in medical training where we ever taught to go to this level.
• 15:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And like you, in my clinic, I'm sitting in front of a patient and I'm realizing, oh my goodness, there is trau here.
• 15:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's unresolved issues.
• 15:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's either identity around illness actually serving a function that they don't realize, or betrayal of self in a relationship that's really not good for them, or, you know, and they're all, maybe you're maybe not aware of it and you and I aren't psychologists, but what we can do as clinicians is start to point out and ask the questions and then lead them to the right referrals and people that can help them navigate.
• 15:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I find I bet 80% of my patients I refer to some sort of somatic therapy, behavioral therapy, physical therapy, integrative manual, Therapy, I could name another or just red light or get in the sunshine or, you know, those are prescriptions nowadays that weren't years ago.
• 16:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So what a great way to think about that.
• 16:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Interestingly, I want to just also mention because I have such a clear remembrance of when I was fighting cancer, fighting Crohn's.
• 16:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I remember being so mad in my mind, like you talked about at my body and I literally was like, you are betraying me.
• 16:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I had this sense of like, my body is got cancer.
• 16:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It can't work the way I want to work.
• 16:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It can't do what my mind wants it to do.
• 16:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I felt this, exactly what you're saying, so deep in my soul that like, I was so mad at my body for failing me in the midst of medical school.
• 16:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I carried that through cancer and Crohn's like, no, we're going to beat this.
• 16:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And my mind was like super strong willed.
• 16:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm going to just, you know, push, pull by the bootstraps and be strong and everything.
• 16:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And my body was like.
• 17:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I was so mad, I literally.
• 17:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then I remembered back.
• 17:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Talk about trauma to five years old, maybe eight years old, playing the piano.
• 17:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I had piano lessons somewhere in that range.
• 17:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And my fingers wouldn't play the keys like I wanted them.
• 17:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I would stop and I would bite my fingers till they hurt and sometimes bled because I was so angry at my fingers for not playing the things right.
• 17:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I look back as I resolve that now, you know, I've gone through that.
• 17:21
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I remember, like, when I realized how connected those two things were, I, like wanted to cry for that little five year old, eight year old and say, sweetheart, why do you betray yourself this way, right?
• 17:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I hope that's okay to share that personal.
• 17:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But I remember, like, in order to heal after cancer, I had to start loving my beautiful body that had survived all of that and actually been so brilliantly strong and actually saw that I was overworking, overextending myself in medical school and was just yelling like, hey, sweetheart, we need to take it easy.
• 17:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, time out, right?
• 17:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So forgive me for dominating there, but I think it's so, like, I just can relate.
• 17:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You said that so articulately.
• 18:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I'm like, yes, yes.
• 18:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I'm sure those listeners out there can feel that same thing.
• 18:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And until you acknowledge the beauty of your machine that were given, it's actually even in mast cell and maybe we next transition to that.
• 18:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because I think there's a beautiful analogy there of our mast cells as these protectors and now we're seeing an all time high of people who have mast cell disorders.
• 18:21
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do you want to try to pull that together?
• 18:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because I think it's totally related.
• 18:25
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yes, it is absolutely related.
• 18:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So, you know, in.
• 18:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: In looking at your story, it makes sense.
• 18:35
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And what happens to virtually all of us is that when we're younger, something happens with our bodies, with how we show up in the world.
• 18:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 18:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So we, you know, for you, it was, I can't play the piano the way that I want.
• 18:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: My damn fingers are not doing what I want them to do.
• 18:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But.
• 18:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 18:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, but that.
• 18:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That idea that my body is against me and what I found is that we actually have to go back and we have to feel that upset.
• 19:15
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We have to feel that anger.
• 19:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We have to feel that pain.
• 19:20
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And it's underneath that experience of that anger that then we get to really experience that sense of loving.
• 19:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 19:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So we can't love ourselves from here and have it happen authentically.
• 19:35
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We actually have to go and feel the feelings and be mad at the fingers when you're five.
• 19:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Be mad at the body when you had cancer or Crohn's.
• 19:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Be mad.
• 19:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then underneath that comes the compassion.
• 19:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Underneath that comes the self love.
• 19:53
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And I think with mast cell activation, there's a couple things.
• 20:01
  Dr. Kelly McCann: One of the things that I like to tell my patients is that you decided this time around you wanted the bullet train to enlighten.
• 20:13
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I like, I wanna.
• 20:14
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I wanna get to who I really am on the planet and my purpose on the planet as quickly as I can, because that's kind of what mast cell does to you.
• 20:25
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Like, you can wallow in reactivity and try and take supplements and, you know, do nervous system work and kind of do these things, or you can say, I'm just gonna work through all of that and get rid of it.
• 20:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So it is this amazing opportunity in order to be able to heal and pull it all together.
• 20:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Now, it's hard to do on your own, but I think what happens with a lot of people when they really embrace that inner work, whether that's through Gupta or Primal Trust, or we can talk about my program that I've just launched, then you.
• 21:10
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You start to make those inroads.
• 21:13
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But what it.
• 21:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: What are the mast cells telling you?
• 21:18
  Dr. Kelly McCann: The mast cells are telling you that there's danger everywhere.
• 21:24
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Where is the true danger?
• 21:26
  Dr. Kelly McCann: The danger can absolutely be the environmental chemicals.
• 21:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It can absolutely be the mold and the.
• 21:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: The infections.
• 21:32
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But what I've come to realize is that the true danger is the judgments we hold against ourselves.
• 21:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yes, I'm not good enough.
• 21:44
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I'm not smart enough, I'm too fat, I'm too ugly, whatever it is.
• 21:51
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And that may because of an underlying trauma that happened.
• 21:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That may because of neglect.
• 21:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That may be from just growing up and having a disconnect between who your parents affirmed you to be and who you felt you really were.
• 22:13
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then we take on these judgments that we hear from other people or we presume or we assume from other people.
• 22:21
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You know, boys don't cry, girls don't do this.
• 22:25
  Dr. Kelly McCann: This is what a good boy does.
• 22:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: This is what a good boy a girl does.
• 22:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: This is what it means to be in this family.
• 22:33
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And heck, no, you can't be.
• 22:35
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You have to honor your parents.
• 22:36
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Well, if you have to honor your parents, but they actually did things that made you mad, you can't actually express that anger.
• 22:44
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: How's that going to show up?
• 22:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, usually migraine headaches ready to explode with unexpressed anger.
• 22:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So.
• 22:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So our opportunity is to really just see things a little bit differently and shift the perspective.
• 23:05
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You know, I also feel that oftentimes when people get cancer and you can corroborate this, it's this immediate, I have to make a change.
• 23:18
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I have to do things different.
• 23:19
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I got the big C diagnosis.
• 23:22
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I have to change my life.
• 23:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: When you have mast cell or complex chronic illness, it's a slow decline.
• 23:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And there's no point in time on that slow decline.
• 23:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That's like, now you have to make a difference.
• 23:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You have to make a change.
• 23:38
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 23:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So it's harder.
• 23:40
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's so much harder.
• 23:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What a great analogy.
• 23:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you're right.
• 23:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think having had experienced mold related illness, mast cell cancer, Crohn's, I can compare and contrast.
• 23:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I remember I've often said this cancer was easy.
• 23:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I lost all my hair.
• 23:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was obvious I was very sick with cancer and everybody was immediately, you need a leave of absence, whatever, all that.
• 24:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And mold related illness was not anywhere near that for the understanding.
• 24:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: In fact, I felt like a freak because I knew I was suffering.
• 24:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But then I doubted myself because there was not a lot of outside evidence to support that.
• 24:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So anyone out there listening who's been through any of these things that are me, CFS or mast cell activation or just environmental toxicity of any type, especially mold, it is so hard.
• 24:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: In fact, I have a patient right now, I can think, she just not too long ago asked me to write a letter to her family to explain and to basically corroborate that she was really ill. And went to the place of like, sweetheart, is there a place where when you were young, you either had to perform for love or that you felt like your parents didn't believe you in some way?
• 24:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 24:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Cause you know that those are connected and we started to go deep and she's gonna work with a therapist on that and do some of that work around it.
• 24:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But so often there's a connection to an old trauma around that gets re.
• 24:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Triggered.
• 24:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then in these diseases where there's not an obvious outward phys.
• 24:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Physical sign, the patient feels so misunderstood because they know they're sick and no one believes them.
• 25:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 25:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: How much of a trauma is that?
• 25:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And does that make sense to you?
• 25:08
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Oh, of course.
• 25:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah.
• 25:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's a huge trauma.
• 25:10
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And you're right.
• 25:11
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's a recapitulation of a previous trauma that is coming forward to be healed.
• 25:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yes.
• 25:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yes.
• 25:19
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So I really think there's an opportunity to reframe so much of the way that we think about health, that we think about illness, and take away all that negativity, take away as much of the judgment as possible, like, this is the best thing that could ever happen to you.
• 25:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I know it's really hard to believe that, but you can make huge shifts and strides in how you are showing up for yourself, how you are letting yourself speak your truth, letting yourself feel your emotions.
• 25:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Because now, hopefully, as an adult, most of these people are listening.
• 25:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 25:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are going to be, you know, older teens to adulthood.
• 26:04
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You can make different choices for yourself.
• 26:06
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So, so important.
• 26:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 26:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love that we kind of started here because it's one of my favorite places to talk about.
• 26:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I know for you too, it's.
• 26:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it's so relevant because the energy of our world is forcing.
• 26:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Maybe not forcing because we can embrace this, but it's really pushing us more than we've ever been pushed before.
• 26:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And.
• 26:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And yet, just like you said, it's an opportunity to transform.
• 26:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love the definition I heard once of love, and I kind of grabbed it and took hold of it.
• 26:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was.
• 26:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Love is creating a space for optimal transformation for another human being.
• 26:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I love that so much because it's not grabby, graspy.
• 26:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You need to do this for me or any of that.
• 26:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's like not real love.
• 26:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's literally.
• 26:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I think as a physician, we can have that love for our patients and just creating a safe space for them to explore that transformation that's going to need to happen in order get well.
• 26:56
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I really love that you continue to reframe this as an opportunity because it is.
• 27:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And yet it's hard to sometimes see it that way.
• 27:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Let's talk a little about mold.
• 27:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We both have had our experiences and it's such a common topic.
• 27:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: How often are you seeing this be a root cause of patients illness and any thoughts or ideas about why we're seeing this also increase in prevalence in our world and our houses and everything thing?
• 27:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, yeah, I see it all the time.
• 27:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: All the time.
• 27:28
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You know, I, I think that part of it is there's a lot of building that go up, that goes up really quickly.
• 27:38
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I don't think that there's a lot of pride in craftsmanship and workmanship these days.
• 27:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think that things are just kind of thrown together.
• 27:49
  Dr. Kelly McCann: At least here.
• 27:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You know, in Southern California there are so many possible water intrusion places in a home.
• 27:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: There could be a slab leak, there could be sheetrock that's hitting the slab, that's wet all the time because the sprinkler system is hitting the slab or hitting the house or whatever.
• 28:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Or you know, they didn't put the roof on.
• 28:11
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 28:11
  Dr. Kelly McCann: They didn't do lots of things.
• 28:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 28:13
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So I do think that there's issues with the building.
• 28:18
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I have to wonder about the excessive use of fungicides in agriculture that may be self selecting for more toxic molds in the soil.
• 28:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I definitely think that is coming into play.
• 28:35
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then when we have a larger, more full bucket.
• 28:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So the idea of total load.
• 28:41
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 28:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So if you've got a bucket that's mostly filled with toxins and then you move it to a moldy house, all of a sudden you have a lot more toxic burden for the whole body to manage.
• 28:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And of course we're going to get sicker faster because our buckets are almost already full.
• 29:01
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think that those are parts of the issue as well.
• 29:08
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, I'm sure there's others, but it's very prevalent.
• 29:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then when people don't get better, despite taking lots of medications and supplements for mast cell activation, usually they're in mold.
• 29:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh, I couldn't agree more.
• 29:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think but like it's like 80% of those with mast cell that aren't getting better.
• 29:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Maybe more.
• 29:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's really a large.
• 29:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We kind of touched on our favorite teachers, Walter Croonian and Lynn Patrick and some of the things they've taught.
• 29:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But what do you see as the biggest threats besides mold in our environment?
• 29:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As some.
• 29:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And we could name thousands, but maybe some of the top four or five chemicals or things that patients should be looking out for and maybe a few practical things.
• 29:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That they could do to reduce toxic load even if they're not feeling unwell.
• 29:55
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Sure.
• 29:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think most people nowadays understand well, you want to eat organic to avoid glyphosate organophosphate pesticides.
• 30:06
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I think some of the less well known situations might be your cooking material.
• 30:17
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So making sure that you're using not like non, not using non stick pans.
• 30:22
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 30:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Stainless steel, glass, ceramic is better.
• 30:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I love my cast iron pans.
• 30:32
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I get to get a workout.
• 30:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But the thing that I've been really interested in focusing more on is the dust.
• 30:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yes.
• 30:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So so many chemicals in the dust.
• 30:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Everything we walk through outside, we treat, we traipse into our houses.
• 30:56
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So that could be pesticides, that could be, you know, rubber, microplastics, all sorts of things that were walking in to our houses with putting in our, putting in the dust in our houses.
• 31:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And things are constantly breaking down.
• 31:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So a lot of our materials that we use are toxic building materials.
• 31:18
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Lots of plastic.
• 31:21
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And think about all those really cool polyester clothing, our yoga pants, our exercise outfits, and how what they're made of is essentially plastic.
• 31:36
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then we wash that.
• 31:38
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Microplastics and nanoplastics and plastic particles get in the water system and then we dry them and they get in the dust.
• 31:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so vacuuming, dust, taking off our shoes.
• 31:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So let's frame this a little bit.
• 31:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Don't wear shoes in the house.
• 31:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 31:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Take your shoes off, have indoor only shoes.
• 32:03
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That will help.
• 32:05
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then vacuuming on a regular basis.
• 32:07
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And believe me, I hate vacuuming.
• 32:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Vacuuming is like my least favorite piece of housework.
• 32:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I'm gonna get one of those little vacuums that, yeah, the Roomba or whatever it is to help me out with keeping the dust down.
• 32:21
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But that is huge.
• 32:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: That's huge.
• 32:24
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then really start to looking at the clothing that we're wearing as much as possible.
• 32:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: They're now these new kind of yoga outfits that will be able to, that are, they're not plastic.
• 32:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so that would lessen the burden as well.
• 32:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love those really practical tips.
• 32:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you know, even though you and I know that it's like really just good reminder.
• 32:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's amazing as we've done a lot of mold related illness and patients.
• 32:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then how we test a lot of times to start is dust.
• 32:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 32:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I often find, as you know, we both, I'm sure, agree that like air sample is great.
• 32:56
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I use that.
• 32:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But then dust and air is kind of a really good combo.
• 33:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I often find in the dust, I discover things that I wouldn't in the air once in a while, vice versa.
• 33:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But it's really profound when you understand the power of that mycotoxin in the case of mold being carried in the dust.
• 33:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What you said is so true.
• 33:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So if you can keep a clean house, which again not my favorite thing either.
• 33:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was so critical.
• 33:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like it's non negotiable.
• 33:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 33:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's not even like, okay, it's nice to have a clean house.
• 33:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's like critical for your health to have a fairly dust free house.
• 33:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 33:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where you live and breathe and work.
• 33:29
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yes, absolutely.
• 33:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So important.
• 33:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I'm also reminded of Lynn Patrick and most recently she was telling me a statistic about oh, about 50 of the houses in America have flame retardants in their water sources.
• 33:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: 50 Wow.
• 33:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And guess how much flame retardant you can get out sauna detox supplements?
• 33:55
  Dr. Kelly McCann: None.
• 33:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 33:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: No way to get out flame retardants.
• 33:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: The PFOS is in the pfas.
• 34:02
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So that's super important.
• 34:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 34:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because we're just building our buckets.
• 34:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And granted that's why I like, I don't know how much you've been talking about therapeutic plasma exchange, but I feel like that is one going to be one of the things that of the future is really essential because organophosphates, plastics, PFAS, PFAOs, which is the Teflon Gore Tex stuff you were talking about on pans and takeout containers and sometimes in linings of cans and things and then mold and mycotoxins, those things are so critical and those are our traditional detox methods, aren't cutting it right.
• 34:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And like plastics, there's no binder, there's no thing that has the charge for plastic that can pull that out of our bodies.
• 34:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it's pretty like you said in the beginning, it's a little scary when you really think about it.
• 34:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But the great news is we do have agency and we can start to make changes.
• 34:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But way more important than IVs and supplements and all the amazing things we use to help patients heal, it's literally the daily habits that make such a profound difference.
• 35:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So I love that you talked about some of the real simple things.
• 35:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So that's mold.
• 35:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Environmental toxicity infections are part of this too.
• 35:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you alluded to the fact that just like many of our patients, you and I both, as we saw the toxic load, we saw, oh, there's also infections underneath.
• 35:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm seeing this real change, especially post pandemic of our immune systems are quite dysfunctional and probably in line with a lot of the stuff we already talked about.
• 35:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But what's your take on that?
• 35:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Have you seen the same thing?
• 35:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And any thoughts on infectious burden?
• 35:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, I mean, I think it's part of the total load.
• 35:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And the immune system does get dysregulated for sure.
• 35:41
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And these infections that might have been dormant for decades are now showing up and needing to be addressed in order.
• 35:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right.
• 35:50
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I mean, we're not gonna.
• 35:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We're not gonna give people antibiotics if their mast cells are flaring, and so we have to do them in the right order.
• 35:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But, yeah, I see a lot of chronic infections.
• 36:02
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I've also been doing some next generation sequencing with a company called MicroGenDx, looking for sinus, bacterial and fungal colonizations in my mold patients, as well as bladder colonizations.
• 36:18
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And that's been a tremendous game changer for patients who have this immune dysfunction.
• 36:27
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then seeing not just the mold and the mycotoxins and the lyme and the tick borne relapsing fever, et cetera, but also the colonization and the sinuses, bladder for men, prostate, and how important that is to clean those up too.
• 36:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Well, I just same thing.
• 36:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Started using those tests and have found exactly what you're saying in these really profound shifts in patients who have had chronic issues.
• 36:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And some of them don't even feel like they're sign.
• 36:56
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Most of the bladder patients have some sensation of, you know, a chronic infection or they've been diagnosed with UTI that never really got better.
• 37:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Not always.
• 37:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But the sinus ones, I find sometimes they're fairly asymptomatic.
• 37:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And there's a really big issue.
• 37:08
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yes.
• 37:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah.
• 37:10
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I had one patient, she was a nurse who was disabled, and she had all the things Lyme and mold and masto and everything like that.
• 37:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: But she also had interstitial cystitis.
• 37:19
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so we did the MicroGenDx women's kit, and I gave her like nine days of phosphomycin.
• 37:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Still, she was 80% better after a single course of phosphomycin for her interstitial cystitis, she's back to work.
• 37:43
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I was able to do a TV spot with the president of the company, me, and I wanted to feature her because her story was so amazing.
• 37:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And she was like, I'm sorry, I'm too busy.
• 37:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I'm seeing patience.
• 37:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Oh, much better.
• 37:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: She can't even do the news slot.
• 38:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 38:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh, my goodness.
• 38:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's amazing.
• 38:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I've had one or two kind of like that too, where it was just so profound.
• 38:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I love that.
• 38:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Again, we're always on the same wavelength as we kind of wrap up.
• 38:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to talk about if someone out there is listening and they, we talked about like maybe some practical steps in their house, but they're dealing with muscle and mold in this and maybe wondering about mold.
• 38:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What would be some of the first steps they might be able to do to kind of investigate?
• 38:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Obviously finding a doc that would be helpful.
• 38:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But is there a few like basic things that you would say start with this test or this, that test or a death sample or where would you go with someone who's potentially concerned about mold in their home or mast cell issues?
• 38:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah.
• 38:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Cool.
• 38:38
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Those are, those are big topics.
• 38:39
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I know, right?
• 38:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We could do a whole other hour on each of them.
• 38:43
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You think there might be mold?
• 38:46
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Do you rent?
• 38:47
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Do you own?
• 38:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Really important, because if you rent, that's a very different framework than if you own.
• 38:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So if you rent, spend a little bit of money, you know, maybe do an army.
• 38:58
  Dr. Kelly McCann: There's a couple of companies out there, mycometrics, Liz, biotech, envirobiomics, maybe do immunolytics, plates and just put some plates out and send them back to immunolytics and have them do some analysis.
• 39:16
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Get yourself a moisture meter, Home Depot, 60, $65 at your local hardware store.
• 39:23
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Walk around your house, check for moisture, especially after it rains.
• 39:28
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Is there moisture on the inside of the house?
• 39:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Are you missing a leak?
• 39:31
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Is there something like that's going on so super important.
• 39:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And that would be for whether you own the house or you rent the house because those aren't too expensive.
• 39:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then if you own the house and things look suspicious, you really need an environmental professional.
• 39:48
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We call them IEPs, Indoor Environmental Professional.
• 39:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And you can find them on the International Society for environmentally acquired illness, isai.org which I'm sure you reference a lot.
• 40:03
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And those guys are, you know, guys and girls, guys and women are so fantastic and so helpful.
• 40:11
  Dr. Kelly McCann: So that's really the mold house question.
• 40:14
  Dr. Kelly McCann: In terms of muscle activation, you know, you have to work with a doc who gets it.
• 40:20
  Dr. Kelly McCann: You really do.
• 40:21
  Dr. Kelly McCann: If you run into somebody who's like, well, if you don't have an elevated trip days, you don't have muscle activation, run the other way.
• 40:28
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Please do yourself a favor.
• 40:30
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Do not let yourself be gaslit by uncaring, uneducated allergists because they don't get it.
• 40:42
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And you know, my sense about it is that there is a regimen that will help calm down your mast cells.
• 40:51
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And sometimes you have to Trial, sometimes you have to use your intuition.
• 40:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Most of the time, both works really well.
• 41:00
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And.
• 41:01
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then you need to start to do the nervous system work because your body is in fight or flight, your muscles are in fight or flight, they perceive danger everywhere.
• 41:09
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And we say we need to start calming down the nervous system so that it's not.
• 41:14
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then when you're ready, when things calm down enough, then it's really time to start to look at the deeper, bigger picture of what you came here to learn.
• 41:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh, love that.
• 41:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So, speaking of, I wanted to kind of end on you have a new program and it's so exciting because you and I both agree.
• 41:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We kind of started out with this.
• 41:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We got sidetracked into a really important area, but people didn't even know they were going on a journey with us because our nervous system, our limbic system, our vagal tone, all of this.
• 41:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that relates, if you're listening to how we started the beginning of our conversation with is there old trauma?
• 41:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And is this meshed or melded with your illness?
• 41:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And is this an opportunity that has come to take your soul to the next level?
• 41:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Talk about what you've done with your program, how people can find out more about that.
• 41:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm super excited.
• 42:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I did not even know this Kelly, so I'm so excited for what you have to offer.
• 42:05
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Thank you.
• 42:05
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yeah, it's been under wraps for a while now, but I launched my first cohort in January and my second cohort in March.
• 42:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's called the Unforgetting Project.
• 42:15
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And the idea is that we came in as whole human beings and then we forgot.
• 42:22
  Dr. Kelly McCann: We took on the ideas and the judgments of our parents, our society, our friends, our family, church, school, teachers, etc.
• 42:34
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And we forgot who we really are.
• 42:37
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And our opportunity now is to unforget, to remember who we really are, why we're here and how we can be most ourselves, be most of service, be most light, as much light as we possibly can to the world.
• 42:55
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And so it's a process.
• 42:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Right now I have a foundational program.
• 42:59
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's a nine week live program where people come and meet with me.
• 43:07
  Dr. Kelly McCann: There's a little bit of lecture, large group sharing, it is.
• 43:12
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I set up a container where we learn a certain process, go into trios with other people in the class and practice these processes to help identify sensations, emotions underneath those sensations and really feel, allow ourselves, give ourselves permission to feel into those feelings, whatever they are, sadness, grief, terror, anguish, you know, rage.
• 43:44
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And underneath that is when we experience what I call our remembered self, our authentic self, our soul.
• 43:52
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And from that place, we can really have a much broader understanding of why we're here, what we're doing, and the truth of who we really are.
• 44:02
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And it's done in this like loving little container of trios each week.
• 44:10
  Dr. Kelly McCann: And then that brings this whole group to a level of connection, vulnerability and intimacy that is so sweet and so special.
• 44:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow, Kelly, I am so impressed and so excited to share this with the world because it needs, this is what medicine needs.
• 44:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: This is the most powerful healing.
• 44:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you know, in the world of AI that is only going to get exponentially more invasive into our world.
• 44:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And there's positives too, right?
• 44:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But what we are missing is human connection.
• 44:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And what you've built into this program is that human touch, that connection which no machine will ever manufacture or replace.
• 44:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So thank you for the work.
• 44:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where can people find out more about this?
• 44:54
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Yes, it's unforgetting project dot com.
• 44:57
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's a little bit of a mouthful.
• 45:00
  Dr. Kelly McCann: I get unforgivable.
• 45:03
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Unforgettable.
• 45:04
  Dr. Kelly McCann: No, If you can only remember my name, there's a link on my website, drkellymcan.com or my clinic, thespringcenter.com awesome.
• 45:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And if you're driving, listening, don't worry.
• 45:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As always, this will be in the show notes.
• 45:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr. Kelly, thank you for being such a soul felt heartfelt interview.
• 45:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I. I forgot how much I love.
• 45:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I shouldn't have forgotten, but I did.
• 45:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm forgetting.
• 45:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm unforgetting how amazing you are and how much I appreciate you and love you and feel like a sisterhood in the work that we do in the world.
• 45:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So thank you for bringing this to the world and thank you for coming on the show again.
• 45:44
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Oh, you're welcome.
• 45:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: My pleasure.
• 45:45
  Dr. Kelly McCann: Thank you so much for having me, Jill.
• 45:47
  Dr. Kelly McCann: It's always wonderful to connect with you.
• 45:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys, hope you enjoyed that amazing episode with Dr. Kelly McCann.
• 45:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I have the deepest respect for her as a physician and clinician and her work in the world.
• 45:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Super excited to hear about the new unforgetting project she's doing and I hope you'll check that out.
• 46:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You'll find everything you need in the show notes below.
• 46:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Also, if you're looking for a functional medicine provider to help you with mast cell related illness, complex, chronic disease, mold, lyme, etc, you name it.
• 46:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We are accepting new patients at Flatiron Functional Medicine, my Clinic in Louisville, Colorado.
• 46:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can call 303-993-7910 or email info@flatironfunctionalmedicine.com if you want more information or want to schedule a free introductory call with one of the providers.
• 46:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As always, please leave us a review if you're listening on itunes, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you're on YouTube.
• 46:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I hope you will join our large number of subscribers by hitting this subscribe button and the bell to be notified of future episodes, of which we have a new one coming out every week.
• 46:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So I will see you again next week for another episode of Resiliency Radio.