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Sicario (2015) — "You will not survive here. You are not a wolf. And this is the land of wolves now." · The Kulturecast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Weary waiting. You're not American.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: What do you work for?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Now? I go or upset, get your clipping out. He
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: works for anyone who will turn him on us. Don't
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: ever point a weapon of me again, Socario.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Culture cast. I am
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: your host, Chris Dashu, and I'm joined by my two
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: good friends all the way from the West Coast, though
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: he would probably call it the best coast. He is
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: the host of Richard Adams's paranormal Bookshelf. Your friend of mine,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Richard HadAM.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: We're in a world of wolves now, Chris, and you're
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: not a wolf.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I'm a wolf. Thank you, h And also joining us
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: from West Texas, your friend of mine. He's the professor.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: He's the professor of Media and Communications over there, a
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Texas tech doctor David Pearl Mutter.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Well again to both of you, thank you for let
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: me join you.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: He gets to say doctor before his name. We don't
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: that means it's official.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I mean unless we're talking to him, in which case
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: we do say doctor before.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: That's true. He requires it, Doctor Pearl Mutter. He's one
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: of those guys. Everybody's got to know you're a doctor,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: all right on this episode of the Culture Cast. I
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: guess we're continue or going back a little bit because
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: we just talked about Heller High Water, So we're going
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: back to the first Taylor Sheridan film of the American
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Frontier trilogy. Richard, you didn't need to see the first one.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: This is well, this is the first one. Technically we
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: saw the second one, which is Heller high Water. The
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: film we're gonna be talking about on this episode is
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: not that film. The film we're gonna be talking about
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: is Cikario so Cicadio is directed by Denis Villeneuve, written
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: by Taylor Sheridan, and it stars Emily Blunt, Benisio del Toro,
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: Josh Brolin, and several other people. But you know, I mean,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Daniel Caluia is there for a minute. John Burnhal is
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: there because this was before the MCU found something for
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: him to do. And it is all about Emily Blunt's character,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: an FBI agent who is brought in on a special
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: ops mission to bait out a Mexican drug lord in
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: the hopes of reunifying the drug trade in Mexico under
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: one banner so that the United States can better control it.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Am I right? I think so that's kind of what
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: I think. Yeah, I think so so yeah, So David,
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: I'm very curious. I'm going to give you the floor first,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: hy Cicicadio, and what did you think of the film?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a couple of reasons. First, Taylor Sheridan
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: has definitely become an institution, probably the most famous living writer, auteur, Yellowstone, Landsman,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: bunch of other series. He bought the six six six
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to four to Six's Ranch, which is not far from here,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: So he's certainly extremely famous in West Texas. But I
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: think nationally, you know, as somebody who really respects screenwriting,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and I know great screenwriters. I'm so honored to know
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: great rich Richard HadAM. You don't have a lot of
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: people from the screenwriting ranks who become a global icon,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and he has achieved, like I guess, everybody's dream in
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: the world of films. So I just think in terms
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of like his works, that this was his first I
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: don't know whether it was first written screenplay, probably not,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: but like this was his first produced I believe screenplay.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And so the empire of Taylor shared and began with
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: this what I considered to be an excellent movie. Which
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: is the second point, which is I think this is
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: an extremely well written movie. I want to hear. Obviously
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: we have not we never pre discussed, so I'm going
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to find out live whether you think I'm completely wrong.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: But I do think for my students this is very
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: well written, incredible direction by Dennis Villeneuve. The details, the
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: always I'm always interested in the props.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: We'll talk.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about the props, like the guns
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: and the trucks and the just the little details of
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: the movie. So I just think it's it's one where
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: you can appreciate and then going back to what you
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: started out, I guess I'll end up arguing a little
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: bit contrarian about like who's the star of the movie.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Who the movie? Really centers on what the movie is about,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: And I think great movies we can have discussions where
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: we have disagreements on necessarily what the point or the
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: plot of.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: The movie is. What about you, Richard, Ah, can you
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: hear me? Okay?
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, sorry, you've heard of a pregnant pause. Richard
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: is giving us.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: A multiple Yeah. I was trying to adjust so that
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the sound is better on you guys, But it doesn't matter.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I can hear what you're saying, so we'll just skip
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: this anyway. Did you ask me a question?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Yes? I did? What did what? The same question to you,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Richard about Cicario?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Fantastic? Loved it. I totally absorbing involving, you know, the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Southwest in terms of like the Texas Arizona border going
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: into Mexico. Not exactly my favorite aesthetic, not like where
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I want to spend a lot of time in a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: movie or in real life. Wow, Richard, but you can't
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: deny that, you know, this kind of movie has an
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: intrinsic I was going to use the word charm, but
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: that's the wrong word. It draws you in because it's
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: the kind of movie whose story is we're gonna bring
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: you into a world that you're vaguely familiar with but
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: you don't really know, and we're gonna show you the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: inside of that world. And that is typically a very
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: powerful way to draw an audience into a story. And
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: in this story, Emily Blunt's character is our is our
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: way in we are her as she gets somewhat hijacked
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: into this new assignment. We go with her sort of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: under undercover. It's not even undercover, it's sort of embedded
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: in this the secret operations of drug control on the border.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not it's not DEA, it's not even
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: d O J. I don't know what it is. It's
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: it turns out to be CIA. And it's like, okay,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: you know early on this is going to be a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: movie that's that's that sort of sells itself on the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: notion we're going to show you how things really work.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Can you handle the truth? And so we're asking that
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of ourselves and and of course Emily Blunt's character is
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: asking that of herself, and it's fun as an audience
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: member to sort of sort of compare yourself to her
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and kind of go, okay, well, now what would I
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: do in this situation? Am I as naive as she is?
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And so as an audience, we are placed in exactly
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: the right position. I believe we are given all the
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: information we need. I don't think the narrative bucks I'm sorry,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: messes with us that much or at all in terms
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: of what's really going on. There's a couple of layers
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: that get peeled back, but I believe they're peeled back
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: at just the right moments, so that this is a
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: movie where we are always leaning forward feeling overwhelmingly involved
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in what's happening. It's never so confusing that we have
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to lean back and go, Okay, I don't know what's
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: happening or who the people are anymore, so I'm just
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of disengaged until I've been given enough information
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that I can fully participate in the narrative. Again, I
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: think we're in it, and I think that's good. No
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: false mystery, just mystery mystery, and up until the final
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: moment where we're wondering for ourselves and for her, is
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: she a wolf or is she not a wolf?
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: I agree, obviously. I think with both of you, Doctor Pearlmutter.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: I think is going to have an interesting question about
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: who the main character of the movie is, and I
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: want to get into that at some point. But I
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: think in terms of it being an interesting movie of
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: a time and a place, and you know this, this
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: movie came out in twenty fifteen, so we're eleven years
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: down the road from this movie. Is the climate in
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: what is Mexico the way it was then? Now? Best
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I can tell, maybe not so much anymore. It's it's
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: a little bit different than it used to be. So
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: it's interesting because this is also kind of like a
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: little bit of a time capsule of a movie. You know,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: it's of a kind of a time and a place
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: where where this was the big push. I remember this.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: I'm sure we all do, like the the mid teens
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: of like the cartels, you know, and they're big deal
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: and we got to deal with them. I mean at
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: one point there was even like can we deem them
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: a terrorist group? Like to handle them? And so you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: and you know, I enjoy the aspect of the movie
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: that is clearly the like telling of a time and
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a place. The actors in the film are fantastic. I mean,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: you know, Josh Brolin, Benizio del Toro, I mean, good lord.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, Emily Blunt is great, but I think obviously
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Benizio del Toro and Josh Brolin obviously you know, don't
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: want say kind to steal the show. They totally steal
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: the show. And you know, I think, to your point,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: David about Taylor Sheridan, like this is Taylor Sheridan's kind
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: of first big thing, and it's a hell of a thing.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's a hell of a movie. It's
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: a hell of a movie to write, it's a hell
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: of a movie to give up to somebody else to direct,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: especially a director like Danievilneuve, who I mean, talk about
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: someone who in the last ten years has really cut
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: their teeth on a lot of things. And is, you know, Richard,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: like we've talked about on our James Bond Show, supposedly
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: allegedly he's going to be the one directing the next
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: James Bond movie, so you know, and I will tell
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: you the cinematography in Sacario is fantastic, and I'm you know,
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I think Villeneuve has an eye for cinematography in a
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: way that a lot of directors don't, and I'm excited
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: to see where he would take a franchise like James Bond,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: because this film is so beautifully shot and it is
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: so well put together technically that I feel like his
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: eye for direction is just I like dnevil Neuve as
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: a director because he knows exactly what he wants, how
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: to get it, and how to go about doing it
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: in a way that both maintains the sense of this
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: is a film, but also, like you've alluded to, Richard
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: feels like we're a little bit in the things that
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: are going on, a little bit more than other directors
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: are able to do. Theneuve is really about setting you
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: in those moments with the characters. I mean, you see
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: it a lot in those Dun movies. Enemy is the
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: same way, Prisoners is the same way. It's all about
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: coming into something very big in a very small, humanistic
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: personal way. And I mean Cacario, I think, really lives
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: up to that, because for me, the movie is really
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: about Benizio del Toro's character. You know, ultimately, I feel like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: and you know, I mean, obviously the titular Ciicario. He
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: is the titular Ciicario, So there is that as well.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: But I just find it interesting as a movie because
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: it's so of a time and of a place. And
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: then there's a sequel, which is nowhere near as good,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: but there is a sequel, So I mean, this is
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: this is one of those movies where when I every
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: time I watch it, I'm like, yeah, I really enjoy
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: this movie, and then I promptly forget about it. Not
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: be for any specific reason, it's just there's a lot
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: of other things to watch. It's a good movie. That's
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: for sure, and it's definitely better than most of these
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: kinds of movies tend to be. But there aren't a
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: lot of these kinds of movies either. I mean, like
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: you said, Richard, like West Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, that
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: whole border area. Those kinds of movies all take a
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: very similar hue to them if they're not you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: period pieces. So this movie is no different. This is
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: probably the best, most well done visually of those movies,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: but not surprising given the direction and you know who's involved,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: kind of at the highest level of it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Just to pick up on something both of you brought up.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So you're watching a movie and it's set in Wisconsin
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: or Switzerland. You have a palette of colors, you have
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: a wild variety of environments. I was born in Switzerland,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: and you can you can shoot a movie. They actually
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: have parts of Switzerland which the way the weather patterns work,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: you can grow palm trees, believe it or not. So
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: like you can shoot any scene in Switzerland. Maybe you
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: have to like bring in some props for a desert scene,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: but like in Europe, you can shoot a lot of
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: different things in the Southwest. Yeah, if you just flew
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: in for an hour into West Texas, New Mexico, Arizona,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: the borderlands, northern Mexico, you would see some more limitations.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I mean there were maces, I mean a lot of
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the classic westerns. Right, there's cliffs, but there's you know,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: you watch an episode of Breaking Bad, you watch Hell
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: or High Water, you watch this movie. You think there's limitations.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: But I think that sets up the difference between looking
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and seeing. And I'm gonna mention. I'm gonna find a
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: way to mention a Kiara Currosawa one of Akira Currosawa's
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: great movies Dursuit Zala, where it was a movie about
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a Russian mapping military group in Siberia because Russia was
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: still absorbing Siberia in nineteen ten. And this local woodsman,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: hunter from a local takes them around and he keeps
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: lecturing them. He says, you look, but you don't see,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: because he's been living his whole life in the terrain,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: and so he can see the smallest things and say,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: like a deer passed by an hour ago. You know
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: that somebody with a gun made a fire here or
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: something like that. And I think that that's one of
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: the themes here is that you can you can take
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: a snapshot of the Southwest and you think you have
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: seen something. You think you know what's going on, but
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you don't necessarily know what's going on. It's it's hidden,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: and I think that keeps coming up. I mean that
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: that's certainly what Josh Brolin, and to some extent the
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Alejandro character, Benito de Toro lectures the Emily Bunk character
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: is about, like you're not seeing what's really going on,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And of course we have to make a decision whether
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: they're they're right, A, they're right, and b whether their
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: their method of dealing what's going on is right. But
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: that seems to be a persistent theme. It's like you
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: think you see something, but you're not really seen.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Well, that is correct, and that is definitely the device
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: of the movie is again peeling back layer after layer
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: after layer until the point where we're literally going underground.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: What makes it powerful? I mean again, I kind of
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: go back to the to the structure of it and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: are our way in. Everything is very clearly set out
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: at the beginning. An incident occurs during an investigation, people
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: are killed. You know, we're there, We're in the middle
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: of it. It's horrific, and we're very quickly brought into
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the reality of the cost and human lives of the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: drug trade across the border. And we know that Emily
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Blunt is dedicated to stopping this, and she's given the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: opportunity when when she's brought into this new operation. They
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: don't tell her a lot, but they do say, do
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: you want to get at the guy who is responsible
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: for this? Right?
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: I love language, don't you do you want to get
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: the guy who's really responsible for this?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Who's really responsible? And they're not lying, I mean, it
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is true. And so she's like yes with her at
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that point limited scope and view of how these operations
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: are carried out, and they're like, great, in that case,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you're you're in the right group, So come with us.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: And as David said, they even, you know, Josh Brolin's
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: character even says to her, look around, pay attention, be
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: a sponge. Learn. Okay, we're going to do things a
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: little bit differently. And and and we're so in her
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: point of view that we're asking all the same questions
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: she's asking, and it's expressed through the screening play structure,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: but it's also expressed visually. Her point of view looking
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: at people wondering about who is you know, Benisio del Toro,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: who is Josh Brolin? Who are these guys really? What
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: agency do they really work for? And then the answers,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: or at least some answers come to us when they should. Yeah,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: it's I do. I do enjoy this sort of movie
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and this sort of journey, and I'm excited to get
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: into a discussion about who the main character actually is.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: So who is the main character of the movie, because
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: in my approximation, it's Benisial del Toro, It's not Emily Blunt.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I mean Emily Blunt is. What Emily Blunt reminds me
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: of is the male character in hell Boy. There's a
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: kind of character that's brought in from out of kind
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: of outside of the organization, and he shows up and
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: he's like looking around, you know, wide eyed in the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: spectacle that you know, oh there's hell Boy, and there's
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: a Sapien and there's you know, there's forget character, Solma
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Blair's character like look at all this crazy stuff, and
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: it's like, that's kind of what this reminds me of
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: because if it had just been I think if it
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: had just been Benisio del Toro's character. It probably would
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: have been hard to justify the vague, ambiguous nature of
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: their allegiances without it seeming like these are just bad guys,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: which I mean, to be fair, I'm not sure that's
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: not the wrong answer. I'm just saying. I think I
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: applaud Taylor Sharedan for taking it upon himself to tell
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: a more conventional version of the story while still staying interesting,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: because this is a little bit of a conventional way
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: of doing this. But I think it's executed rather well.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this is a screenwriting class by
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: two experts, and I'm just a member of the audience
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: with my popcorn. But I think did Emily Blunt need
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to be there In a badly written version of this,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: an amateur version, right, you would have had just the
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: top guys and they've got their special ops mission and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: they're going after the bad guys. Hey, we heard from
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: local Arizona police there's something going on. Okay, here's our mission.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And you think about the mission impossible type of scenario
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: like the old TV show and some of the movies
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: where okay, we've got the explosives expert and we've got
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the radio expert and wiring and let's go get the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: bad guys and they do. That would have been a
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: very easy screenplay. Emily Blunt didn't need to be in
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: that screenplay because in those screenplays they rarely have like
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: tagging along on the special ops team, an amateur who's
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: not necessarily already gone through thirty ten years of training
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: to be there. Right that now they have a narrative device,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: like in order for us to do something on American soil,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: we need this, But she really did in a bad
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: version of the screenplay. She didn't need to be there.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And I'll let you both more qualified commonis, but it
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: works so well to see through her eyes. She is
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: not a naive, like she is an actual police officer
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: who's dealt with death too's dealt with the drug trade.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: But she is represented as somebody who is like four
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: or five times in this film she's surprised and astonished, like, well,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: actually she's very surprised and astonished when somebody that she
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: brings home tries to kill her. She actually says, yeah,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: the guy I brought home from the bar just tried
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: to kill me. How do we write that up as
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: a police report? You know? I mean, I mean, this
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: is very brave to portray her as making these potentially
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: fatal mistakes, and I'd like to hear from you guys
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: about how well. I mean, maybe there are some decisions
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: there that you don't agree with, but I thought it
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: was brilliant to have her and not heard her be
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the dumb sidekick saying, well, gosh, I don't understand what's
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: going on? Could you guys explain it to me? The
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: doctor Watson, the Sherlock Holmes that, like most detectives have
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: a sidekick who has to have everything explained for the audience,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: but she serves she's the best observer within a film
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: that I've seen in a film in a long time,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: and I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I'll be the one to say, I'll be
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the guy. I'll be that guy to say Structurally, I
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: feel very very secure in saying this is Millie bluntz
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: movie and she is the main character. In the same
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: way that I shock my television classes when I insist
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that the main character of The X Files structurally is Scully,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: not Molder. That's because that's the person going on the journey,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and she's the one going on the journey, so so
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: structurally I would answer the question in that way. But
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: the fun thing about this is it's not math, and
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: questions like this force us to really look at what
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the movie is about and what I would call the story,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: not the plot. David pointed it out perfectly. For the plot,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: we don't need her, But for the story we do,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: because this isn't a movie just about a plot a
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: mission to infiltrate a drug cartel and get the leader.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: What the movie is really about is do the ends
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: justify the means to a certain extent, or what the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: fuck even are the ends? What are we doing here?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And it's almost a journey of cynicism that reveals a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: deeper cynicism, that reveals a deeper cynicism that reveals the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: ultimate cynical heart of what is going on in this battle.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: But for the story, we do need a character who
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: is on the scale the most naive, and that is
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Emily Blunt, because that's also the audience. We have to
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: presume the audience is coming in somewhat ignorant, suspecting there's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: probably more going on. There's corruption. We've all seen these movies.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: We've all read the books and seen stories, but now
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: we need to fill in all the blanks along the way.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: In the middle is Josh Brolin, on the naive side,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: of course, is Emily Blunt, and then on the full
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: dark side is Benicio del Toro, who is following a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: very personal mission. And we get that impression early on.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: We're it's not exactly quite sure what it is, and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: there's moments where we're sort of like, oh, wait a second,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: is this a double cross? And which would have disappointed
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: me because that would have spoken to plot rather than character.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: And I don't need a spy movie where everything is
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: just oh my god, it's a mole within a mole
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: within a mole. This is really about how do we,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: as what we feel we are, which is moral human beings,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: approach big, big moral problems. And what's nice about it
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: is as time capsulety and as current or modern or
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: cutting edge as it feels now or ever felt. We're
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: in the world of Dashl Hammet, We're in the world
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: of Red Harvest. We're in a world of Sometimes law
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: enforcement is about pitting one bad guy against another bad guy.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's about maintaining an order in which we don't
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: capture all the cinals. We keep certain ones in place
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: so we know what the hell is going on. These
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: are very old, old stories and and it's always fun
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: to see them represented to us in extremely modern garb
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: like this one is. But it speaks to very old stuff,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: which is can you be ever completely moral? Can you
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: ever have your hands completely clean? These are great questions.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: At the end, is Benicio del Toro a moral man
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: in his own mind? In the mind of the audience. That's,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: in a way the main question, which I think is
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: why he can He feels like a main character because
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: he's facing those questions as much as Emily Blunt is,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: but from another angle. So we leave the theater thinking
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: about both of them. But we get our answer, you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: we do get an answer. I mean literally, at the
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: end of the movie. I'm just I'm watching those two
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: characters in this standoff that they're having, and I'm just like, okay, okay,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: now is the moment we're going to find out is
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: she a wolf? Is she not? And when I say that,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: what I'm really saying is did this journey change her
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: a lot or completely?
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Your comment about dash Ol Hammond, I'm sorry, Chris, you
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: were going.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: To say something.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Now, go for it, Go go go.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I'm a great appreciator of Raymond Chandler and the original
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: stories and books of Philip Description, Philip Marlow, His Detective,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: The Big Sleep and so on. And I remember the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: famous quote of Ross MacDonald, another novelist Rippe said about
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Raymond Chandler, He wrote, like a slumming angel. And I
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: actually thought of that when I was watching this film.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: This is one of those films like, man, you need
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to take a shower after watching this film, like like
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: this we're taking talk about a walk on the dark side,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: like you're seeing things and your are we moral agents?
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Because I was thinking my morale is being tested here.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're gonna skip ahead, and I hope we
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: spend a few a little bit of time talking about
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the dinner scene, because I spend my social media time
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: usually on Reddit, and I swear once a day somebody
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: posts there is the dinner scene in Sacario the most
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: brutal moment in the history of film, or something like that,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: because people who you know, those reaction things on YouTube
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: where people watch you know, Star Wars for the first
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: time and oh, oh, you mean Darth Vader is Luke's
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: father or something like that, and people react or the
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Red wedding, Well, people watch the dinner scene. And I
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: watched the dinner scene and I was sitting there going, no,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: they're not going to allow this to happen in the
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Hollywood film. There's gonna be like, there's gonna be something
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: like he takes the cartel leader outside and shoots him
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: and leaves the family. I want to talk in detail
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: about that scene, but I think it's emblematic of the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Slumming Angel. It's like we are taken to the to
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the heart of darkness whatever metaphor is you want to
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: use here, and we are along for the ride and
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: we have to decide, like, wait a minute, do I
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: approve of this? I'm approving of it right now. Things
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: that if you asked me in my daily life, I
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: would say no, no, no, don't do that. And I
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: just think that is such a wonderful experience to watch
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: a movie where we're subjected to that.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I agree with you completely, David. I mean, and you
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: know Richard as well, Like I think it's interesting to
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: have this movie kind of challenge you and your belief
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: system on the way criminality is handled by this country.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, you know, the border is still an
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: issue in a lot of ways, but not in the
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: way that it was in this movie. Like in this
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: movie there they're obviously playing this up a little bit,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: and they're making this to be this kind of not
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: thathing take us out a big thing, but it's just
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: it's a bigger thing in the way that the narrative
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: is kind of expressing it. And what I always find
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: so interesting about this movie every time I watch it
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: is a the dinner scene in the way it's to
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: kind of juxtapose the rest of the violence in the movie,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: but also just this idea of like you both have said,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: like we are unsure where the narrative is taking us
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: more or less the entire time. I mean, it is
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: just it's going We are along for the ride. It
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: is not clear what is happening. The other characters know
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: what is going on, if they know it all, some
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: of them know and some of them don't. And we
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: are just passengers on a train here, and we have
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: no control. And I'm not saying in a movie any
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: one of us has any amount of control, but to
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: have that to have that control never given to you
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: as an audience member is interesting because that's not a
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: common thing that is done when it comes to modern
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: film writing. I mean modern film writing. They're they don't
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: want to challenge you in a lot of ways, because
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: if you challenge an audience, the audience may kind of
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: recoil and fear and not want to be you know,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: they just want they just want to get be given something.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: They don't want to have to try and achieve something.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: And not saying that broadly, I'm just saying I think
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: that's the kind of a weird expectation that's being written
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: down to now. And this movie doesn't do that. I mean,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: this movie leaves so much ambiguity out on the table
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: out kind of and the open, and like you have
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: both said it, it really challenges you as an audience
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: member to ask yourself where are you with everything? As
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: much as Emily Blunt, because you may not even agree
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: with the decision she makes. By the end, you may
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: come away with it going well, I understood how she
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: could get there, but I'm still not there. And I
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: think a good, well written movie challenges the audience in
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: some capacity.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So we have a character of a police officer in Mexico,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and we sort of visit him. We sort of step
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: out of the narrative and visit him throughout the film,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and we see bits of his life, his child, who
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: you know, plays soccer on the weekends, you know, the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: mom we're given sort of you know, the normal American family,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: except it's in Mexico. And then it's only towards the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: end of the movie that we catch up in this
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: person enters the main narrative, and the movie actually ends
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: with sort of a brief coda about how all of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: this giant drama has affected this small family that was
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: more or less outside the main action but is now
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: collateral damage to it, and directly because of Benicio del
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Toro's actions and in a way what he does. I'm
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: going to talk openly because I'm going to have to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: assume it's been ten years and so people have seen
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: the movie. When he kills that police officer, that actually
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: surprised me more than what he does at the dinner
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: table scene, really, because I wasn't clear. I was sort
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: of like, Okay, so now does he consider this guy
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: sort of like you're almost you know, you're a part
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: of this and I need you to get me to
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the next part. Of my plan, but I'm not going
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to make you necessarily pay for it because I don't
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: need that to happen. Even though this guy is implicit
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: and I was sort of like, I don't know, weirdly,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: because we've been given so much information about this guy
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: his family, the movie is telling me to be on
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: his side a little bit and to have a human
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: concern for him. So when he is killed very quickly,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: almost offhandedly, I have an emotional reaction like, oh shit
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that that is much stronger than what I have at
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the dinner scene, when the head of that particular cartel
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and his family are killed, which you know, again narratively,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just looking at like, well, okay, this is of
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: course what he's going to do. I'm not surprised.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: It makes perfect sense.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, according to what we've been given in who
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: this guy is, there's no question in my mind all
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: these people are going to die. It's just a question of,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: you know, how much is he going to you know,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: inflict pain before the kill shot, and it's it's fairly
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: quick and clean. What we are left with is that
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: sense of collateral damage, that sense of outside of this
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: main drama where we've seen lots and lots and lots
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of people whose everyday business is being on one side
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: or the other of this drug pipeline. And then we
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: just sort of see what you might think of as
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: innocent victims. You know, cops dirty okay, you know, but
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: he's got a family, kids, not dirty, wife's not dirty.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: But they're victims too, And it kind of it's kind
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: of cool that it sort of comes back, sort of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: steps back out of the main narrative at the very
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: end to go, how is all of this, this whole
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: war affecting just the man on the street. Now, right now,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: we know how it affected Emily Blunt's character, but how
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: is it affecting the man on the street? Which I thought,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you know, ultimately was yet another way of approaching the question.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: And that's what's great about a movie that really is
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: just about big questions. In this case, what's the difference
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: between morality, justice, and legal procedure? And those all become
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: three very separate things in the movie, pursued by different characters.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: And what I love about each of those pursuits is
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: there both at times clearly defined in the narrative, but
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: also rather muddy in terms of even where they are
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: drawing their own lines of delineation of where the movie
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: feels like it can come in at these things because
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: each of the characters in the movie, at least the
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: three main ones z Emily Blunt, Benisio del Toro, and
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Josh Brolin, who we barely even talked about. Josh Brolin,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: who I think he's great in this movie, but he's
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: given of the three main characters, he's given the least
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: to two do of the three main characters because of
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: the way the narrative uses his character to be it's
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: gonna use the parladce that the movie uses. He's the spook.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: He's the Cia Spook in the movie. And because he's
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: the Cia Spook, it's a very understated role. But at
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: the same time I love that he's just kind of,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: you know, three steps ahead. But also he doesn't have
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: his blindfold on the way she does intentionally, like he's
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: the puppet master here, just kind of you know, because
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: he knows what Benisio del Tour is gonna do. Del
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Toro is is confronted with anything outside of the ordinary,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: he's just gonna kill him. Like ben Azel, del Toro
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: is single minded in his goal, and it is so
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: single minded that legal proceeding and morality no longer matter.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: It is the metering out of justice that is all
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: that is important, and it is the it is. And
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: like you said, Richard, the age old story of an
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: eye for an eye, those people did not have to die,
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: but they died because the collateral damage is part of
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: the the collateral damage is part of the punishment. Because
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: I think it's Jeffrey Donovan, who is again barely in
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: this movie. He's great and burn. Notice he go, I think,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: what does he say when he sees those people hanging
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: from the highway. He's like, it's beautiful the way they
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: do it. It's a beautiful thing. And it's like every
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: time up until this recent time I watched the movie,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: I've kind of recoiled at that scene. But this time
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I kind of get it. I understand what
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: he's getting at. What they're doing is like they're just
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: you scare the entire population shitless constantly and keep them
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: in a total state of fear. And in keeping them
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: in a total state of fear, you are able to
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: do whatever you want, whenever you want, with essentially impunity,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: which is I mean, which we see at the Border Crossing,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: which talk about a tense scene a but amazingly written,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: amazingly shot, so well acted, and I love the idea
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: that it's not even made clear whether or not these
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: guys are there to get that guy back. Those are
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: just guys there with guns. That's what Emily Blunt says.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: She's like, what, who are these people? Why are we
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: even killing these people? And I don't know. It's like, Okay,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: there's all of like one person it would seem that
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: she has to kill, and it's the lone wolf cop
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: on the bike. That's it. Everybody else seemingly didn't have
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: to die.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Well seem you know, it's you all. The unwritten line
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: of Josh Brolin is to tell Emily Blunt, we're in
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the wild West now, and it's funny because we are
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: literally we're in the Southwest. This you know, you could
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: compare this to a Western. Westerns are compelling and and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: are typically compelling because they are stories of justice systems
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: being built from the ground up. That's why, you know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the good guys and the bad guys are all so compelling,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: because because we have not established the rules of the
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: game yet in the West, that's what's happening here. It's
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: different rules. Emily Blount's rules are we need to take
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: these people to court and prosecute a case. And Josh
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Brolin is saying that's not what we're doing here. We're
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: playing a whole different game, and frankly in a weird way.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it takes her a
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: long time to get on board if she ever does.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And in defense of her character, I'll go back
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: a little. As you guys know, about thirty years ago,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I wrote a book about police and the media, and
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: included doing a visual ethnography of a police department where
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I rode along in the car in a squad car
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: for a year and a half with all officers and
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: took pictures and saw what happened, ask questions about what happened,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and then also compared it to sort of the TV
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: portrayal of police detective crime. And one of the things
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: that I learned right away was that police, even though
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: you in the television show Law and Order, they do
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: show a connection between the law part and the order part,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: police did have to think about things like getting the
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: conviction in court right. So sometimes I'd see somebody and
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: I'd go, oh my gosh, that person is incredibly guilty.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you arrest them? And the police would say,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: we don't have enough evidence yet, we don't have probable cause,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: we don't you know, the prosecutor would blow up if
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: we arrested. Now, you know, they've got to make a case.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: You know, the detectives need to do some things. And
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: she lives in that world, right, she lives in the
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: world of like procedure and like filling out a form.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I remember one of the things that really struck me.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: In fact, in my book, I have a pick picture
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: of the cubby holes where like the four hundred forms
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: that you had to have. There's a lost bike, there's
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: a form for a lost bike, there's a there's a
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: drug deal.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Yet there's a long, long series of forms for like
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: discovery of drugs and you know, certifying the weight of
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: the drugs and how much drug discovery of money. In
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: the world of forms, and obviously anyone who lives in
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the world of forms fantasizes about what if we had
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: no forms for a day, right, what if we just
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: do what we wanted and solve the problem? Right, So,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: to some extent, Emily Blunt is taken to a drug
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: enforcement officer fantasy camp where oh yeah, and her character,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the moral rectitude of her character is that she she
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: technically gives in at the end, but but she fights
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: it all the way and I don't think she completely
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: She doesn't give in morally, she didn't say like, Okay,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: now I see you know, hey Josh bro and hey Alexandro,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to transfer and join you guys.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: And and in Sacario part two, I'll be no, no,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: you never see her again. They're apparently going to make
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: a Zacario part three. I'm not sure she's going to be.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: In that one.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: We'll find out. But the point is that that separation,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: uh is one that we typically don't see, right and
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: and and and absolutely of a majority of people who
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: work in law enforcement don't can't practice that. I mean
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: they literally be like, you know, they'd be fired if
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: they did. The local news station would find out, Uh, you.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Know, they're there, they're there.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Chief wouldn't allow it. I mean, there's there's so I
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: think one of the beauties of the movie is it
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: gives us this world of what could happen, what does
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: happen at one point, Josh Boon actually says to her,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: this is what happens in Juarez when they get embedded,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: when they've dug in, right, this is what happens when
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: they control, you know, they're the end the And I
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: think the Mexican police officer the banality.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Of his life.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, like, don't we have like two minutes
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: of like him eating lunch and talking.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, breakfast minute.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: This is a film about like assassination and machine gun
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: fights and whatever. We're taking two or three minutes to
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: this kid wants to go to soccer and his dad
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: is tired from a long night. And well, I think
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: it's showing these the industry, like this is just this
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: is part of the world. And he's accepted it. He's
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: not He's not waking up in the morning going gosh,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm part of this terrible industry and
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: people are being killed. He doesn't think he's going to
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: be affected by it because it's so normalized.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, and you know, and then the guy that
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: the Texas police officer who who is corrupt you.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Have a John Bernthal's character. Yeah, it's weird to see
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: him in something for like five minutes given to his
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: like visibility. Now, that's very weird. I was like, right,
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: he's in this movie for five minutes.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny. It's like one of the other things
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the movie is saying is that corruption is something you
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: can only safely get away with at your if you're
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: at the very top of the food chain. But corruption
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: when you're down at the bottom of the food chain
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: means you're gonna get beaten up, killed, or sent to prison.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: That's what happens to him, That's what happens to our
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Mexican police officer, who are basically equivalent characters in a way.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: They're just like, right, we're just kind of like, you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: bottom feeders that are facilitating all of this and maybe
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: picking up a few scraps extra in a couple of
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: bucks or something. But we're not We're not benefiting in
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the way that others are, and they are the ones
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: who pay the price.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Well, isn't that always the way the system works, that
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: people at the top are insulated from all the bad
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: things happening and the ones at the bottom aren't. I mean,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: and you know what's funny about Taylor Sheridan Richard, I
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: know you weren't with us for the Hell or high
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Water episode, but similar themes there. I mean, that's one
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: of the themes in that movie is those at the
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: top are insult against the bad decision making of themselves
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: or other people, and that insulation, you know, allows them
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: to throw other people under the bus or toss them
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: to the wolves, or however you want to perceive it.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: And that happens all the time. It happens everywhere in
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: any capacity. The people at the top are often the
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: ones exploiting those not in the same position, and Sacario,
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: i mean leans into that. What's funny is, like you said, Richard,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: the corruption's allowed when it's DoD guys or when it's
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: you know, Benizio del Toro, who is apparently a former
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Mediine cartel member or is a Mediane cartel assassin. It's
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: ever made clear. They call him Mediine a bunch, and
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming he is part of the cartel in an
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: assassin capacity. But Benicio del Toro is definitely the less
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: of him the better in this movie. And the amount
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: that they have of him in this movie works because
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's the perfect amount. But there's that's one
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: of these treading a fine line very carefully roles, because
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: it could have been way too much if they had
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: just had like two more scenes. Frank, It's one of
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: those things where I think, like Taylor Sheridan hit the
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: right amount of time that Benicio del tore is in
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: the movie without giving too much of what he's doing away.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about how interesting it is we
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: are having these conversations about small characters, which is another
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: sign of a great movie, right, And I want to
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: talk about my favorite small character because, as you both know,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I have this idea. The Academy has never gotten back
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to me, even though I've emailed them many times saying
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: there needs to be an Academy Award for tiny performance,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: like just a few sentences or a look. I had
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: to look really deeply to find out the cartel leader's wife.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I believe. I actually have to say I believe instead
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: of I know, because I had to look like a
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: lot for this. Laura Martinez Cunningham apparently she's not credited.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: That's weird, yeah, or what she doesn't say a word
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: ran that's true, she doesn't know.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: She doesn't know screen actors, guilders like that. But like,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: let's just play this scene a little bit here.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: So Alejandro makes his way after some fancy shooting into
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: the ridiculous palatial mansion of the you know, obviously ostentatiously
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: over decorated mansion of the cartel leader. He's already killed
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: a bunch of guys, including the police officer, including the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Northern Connection boss, North of the Border boss, and first
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: person he encounters after killing all the made guys. We
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: would say when in the mafia, term is a maid
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: holding a salad bowl, as I recall her, like a
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: bowl of food. And so this is where I'm thinking, like, okay, well,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you know, and this is a term I think is
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: used in the Cigar Day of the Saldado film, like
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: he's going to have to clean up, so that maid.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Is going to die.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: But he did, but we don't see that.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: We don't know the one.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Hundred percent that he doesn't kill her on the way out,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: but he just looks at her, makes it judgment you're
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: no threat, you're not important, and walks past. So like
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: we've gotten this little little sign here. Okay, well you
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: know he's got maybe he's not gonna just shoot everybody
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: in the room, okay. And then he walks in and
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I'll let you guys describe the dialogue and everything, but
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about this. I hope her name
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: is correct. I'm sorry, Laura if I'm miscasting you here,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: But Laura Martinez Cunningham, the wife of the cartel leader.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Now flash backwards to Ka Corleone, Michael, did you have
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: anything to do with this?
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: And the door closing right at the end of The Godfather,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: right now, Alejandro says, here you are having sitting dinner.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying exact quote. And every night you have
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: people kill, you have families killed. And you see the
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: wife again Academy Award for Tiny Performance. She's terrified by
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: the prospect of like her children, but the man with
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: a gun is sitting there right in front of her kids.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: You could just, man, you have fuel some empathy no
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: matter what she's involved in or not, like wow, to
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: be in that situation a mother, right, any parent. But
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: then she looks at the cartel boss for a second.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: It's an amazing look, and you're wondering, like, does she
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: not know? Because in twenty sixteen, can you have to
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: think that there are no k Corleone, There are no
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: ones who are innocent of what goes on in crime
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: crime families. I don't know what the story is there,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: but like she pulls it off. And again this is
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: this question about people coming living in the same place,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: living in the house, living in Guarez, living in El Paso, whatever,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: living in Albuquerque, and they see but they don't necessarily know.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And I think that's a very interesting play that they
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: have yet once again with yet another character. They're a
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: very tiny character.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Those characters are really hard to cast because at a
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: certain point in the process you realize, oh, this is
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: very important, Like these these two kids and this woman
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: are going to be in one of the biggest scenes
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: of the movie, if not sort of the biggest scene.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: They don't have lines. How how do you go about
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: casting those roles? Who what do you ask an actor
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: to do at the audition for that role? The kids?
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: What do you do? Or do you simply look at
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: what they've done in the past, meet with them, have
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: a conversation and go, well, I hope it reads you know.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: You know, that's when a casting director really helps you,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: because I always even I wonder it's like what does
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: a casting director really do? But a casting director can
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: can really be like no, no, I know this person,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: I know their work. They're going to deliver. When they're
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: on set, you'll be happy. And you know, if you're
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: a smart director and you've chosen the correct casting director,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: you listen to that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: I give a lot of credit, Richard. You did not
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: join us for the Sopranos podcast that Mike White and
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: I have the projection booth and I are doing. But
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Georgiana Walkin, Chris Walkin's wife, is one of the cast
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: casting directors on that show. And her casting on that
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: show is one of the main reasons that show works
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: so well, is because everybody in that show is well cast.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: And I think, to your point, like a good casting
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: director can straight up break your mo you know right,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, look at look at you know. I know
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: you're you're friends with Alan Richson. Look at the role
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: he took over from someone who did not embody that role, correct.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, the role of Reacher is not one that
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: should be played by a diminutive human being.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: That is not the plump Yeah, but when are the
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: biggest movie star in the world, Yes, sure, No.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: The biggest movie star in the world who has to
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: stand on a box next. It's fine, He's not punching
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: his neighbor off of its motorcycle or whatever the fuck
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: he was doing over there, and and wacky in Wacky Tennessee.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: It's in this film. If you don't have the right
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: casting at every moment, there is going to be light
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: that shines through the facade. Because that's the other thing
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: about this movie. And I think to your point, David,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: it's so well crafted and so expertly kind of honed
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: in every direction that every role does have to matter,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: even the kind of I would say, you know, the
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: Mexican cop who has given like five lines in this
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: entire movie, even he is sympathetic in a way that
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: needs to be somewhat internalized by the audience, because, like
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: you said, Richard, his deaths is as impactful as anyone
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: else is, anyone else's is in the movie. And he
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: is literally a nameless, faceless cop. That's it.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, what's funny is that the final bad guy
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: at that dinner table, you know, the cartel leader, they
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: actually cast a guy who, when you look at him,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: you know they could have gotten you know, oh, Danny Trejo. Okay,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: a guy you look at Danny Treyjoe and you're like,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: we're in trouble. This guy's bad news. And of course
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: the joke is Danny Trejo's one of the nicest guys
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: in the world. And if you ever just see him
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: in an interview, it's like, oh, I want to go
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: party with this guy. But they cast someone who actually
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: has a very engaging face, who does not frighten you,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: who if you were sitting in a room with him,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you'd feel totally at ease. And and I thought that
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: was brilliant, you know. It's like, Okay, well, we know
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: we've been told what this guy is. We're not questioning it,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: but our instincts when we look at him, we are
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: slightly disarmed.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: That's the old like the devil comes to you in
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: a suit, right, not you know, with the horns and
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: a tail.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the Yeah, looks like a nice guy.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: He's probably you know, you know, jokes around with his kids,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Alec Baldwin says, good, you want to be good with
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: your kids, Go home and play with your kids. You're
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: a good dad. Okay, yeah, doesn't matter if you're murdering people.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: I guess it's just you know, I mean, again, the
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: morality of the movie is kind of the same thing
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: that you know, the Sopranos tackles in the third season,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: where it's like, at what point do the people involved
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: know what they're doing and how it's affecting other people?
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: And at what point, while they may not be doing
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: it quote intentionally or not, at what point are they
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: not essentially complicit in their actions or the actions of
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: others that are being committed on their behalf. And it's
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: you know, it's you could ask the question of the
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: cartel members or of the American government hiring Colombian assassins,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: like that's you know, that's the other thing that kind
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: of just a lantern gets hung on. Benisio del Torre's
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: character is a assassin for the Colombian cartel, hired by
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: the American government and assumingly paid American taxpayer dollars too,
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: which is which again, like it's like we've asked before,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: like ends justifying the means. I don't know if the
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: ends justify the means in any of this, but I
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: love watching a movie where they ask that question and
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: kind of give multiple avenues to go down, because at
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: times I would say, the movie's wanting you to get
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: to the point where the ends justify the means, and
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: at other times the movie is challenging you to push
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: back on it and say, no, the ends do not
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: justify the means.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Well, a question that you can ask, and for fun,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I'll ask you guys, is Emily Blunt at the you know,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: toward the end of the movie penultimate scene, has an
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: opportunity to kill Benizio del Toro, and she makes a
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: decision not to. Is killing him or not you know,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: which is the more moral act at that point, killing
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: him or not killing him?
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Well, she makes a She makes a number of mistakes
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: in this movie. One of them is and I think
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: it's a rule you don't pull a gun and point
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: it at anybody right less, unless you plan on killing him,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: unless unless one of your options that you might exercise,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: right I mean, especially in that kind of a scene.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And I think, I don't know if you interviewed Alejandro
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: the character and asked him about Emily Blunt, I thought, again,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: this is just the the amazing acting. And again we
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: could spend two hours on the sound design. I want
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: to bring the sound design.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: It's no kidding, yeah, like.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Thinking of actually what I the most recent content that
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: that I beautiful content that I compared to was was
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: Chernobyl where they have no music. It was just sort
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: of sireny, you know, twists and but this a lot
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: of a lot of the sounds in this movie are wails,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: their cries of pain as music, you know, mixture there.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so if I were interviewing Alejandro, Alejandro, tell me
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: the truth, you know, what did you think of this
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: police officer from from America. I think he actually respects her.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I think he actually says like, Okay, I get where
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: she's coming from. She hasn't experienced what I've experienced. She
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: hasn't seen what I've seen. She's standing up for her principles.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: But business is business. I've we've got to achieve our
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: ends by any means necessary. So it's not I've seen
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: some interview, some fan theories on the web of how
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: like Emily Blunt is continually humiliated and the whole point
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: of the film is to make fun of her. I
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: think that's weighed four or five bridges too far in
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: terms of character.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: They're they're all very dismissive. That's a very dismissive way
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: of looking at the movie.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're all professionals but in different world, right,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just something that really comes across there,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: and we don't know what's going to happen afterwards. Obviously,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: obviously we do know because there was a Sacario Day
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: of the Soldado on a parent and Josh.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: She's not in it. She's not in it, but she's
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: not in it. She's not in it at all, which
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: is low key hilarious in it of itself.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I mean it's implied that she didn't, you know, immediately
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: fly to Washington and talked to you know, the Washington
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Post or something like that. I mean, her story has ended.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll see Zacario three. But the point being that
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I like the respect there and in the dinner scene
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: that let's go back to the cartel boss his kids.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm start trying to think, you're you're how
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: old were they seven and ten or something like that.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Guess that's that's a tough scene, right, Like you're casting
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: a child and like a manic is coming in there,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: and like we don't want you to be you grew
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: up in a family where you're not going to show terror.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: You're not going to start crying and begging for your life.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Nobody noticed.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Nobody's begging the way. Even the wife doesn't say, oh,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: please don't kill my children. It's just not possible within
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: the culture of somebody living. And that's a situation.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: The kids don't.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: The kids are afraid, obviously, but they don't. You know,
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: they're not quaking in terror.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: The directing of young actors, you know, that's great young acting.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: The cartel boss.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I love his physicality.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I love how he changes stance a couple, just shifting
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: his like at first he's like, women, please don't do this,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and then oh, you know what, buddy, let me tell
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: you something you know about the business, or something like that,
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: and he becomes three or four. He switches roles three
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: or four times, and you can see how effective a
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: businessman he is. That when he has to be hard,
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: he said to be hard, when he's probably negotiating with equals,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: he's negotiating with you. Probably Sometimes he's an encouraging boss. Hey,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: I really approve of what you did on Thursday. We're
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: so glad to have you with the company. You know,
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: he could probably pull that off too. And again, it's
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: this world of different professionalisms, and I just appreciate how
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: much Villeneuve and Shared and the casting director and whoever
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: all the other people involved were able to pull that off.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the complaints about Emily Blunt's character
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: are based on an expectation that she will be a
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: traditional hero, she will reveal herself as the hero of
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: the story, which I find I mean, I can understand that,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I guess, But for me, so early on the movie
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: was telling me this is not going to be a
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: movie where traditional notions of heroism or you know, the
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: triumph of law enforcement is going to be held up
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: and celebrated. Early on, I felt like that wasn't going
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: to be the story. I thought the story was going
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: to be the slow cymicalization of Emily Blunt. And so
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: for that to happen, I mean, all those humiliating moments
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: are there to reveal over and over and over again
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: to her, the world is not what you think it is.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: You still think it's this when it's that. So you're
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: gonna keep tripping, you're gonna keep hitting, you know, keep
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: running into that glass patio door until you get it,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: and she never gets it, you know, which, which at
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the end we're left to wonder, is that a good
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: It reminds me a lot of Chinatown at the end,
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: where it's just like that's just the way it is,
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Like that's that is, It's just it just is. And
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: they don't say I mean, they don't have to say
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: it's no godless Emily blund you know, they don't have
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: to say that, it's what is you know, it's what
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: is Kate Maser, Like, they don't have to say that.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: But by her not shooting Benicio del Toro, by him
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: putting her on the spot, by him coming back to
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: her apartment and you know, don't stand on the don't
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: stand you shouldn't be standing on any balconies for a while, like,
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: you know, by him saying that, like that is that
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: moment of like you need to understand that things have
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: changed and you are still operating as if things are
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: the same, and you refuse to accept that you are
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: now a different cog in a different machine than you
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: ever were before.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting that they send him, and I'm
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: glad they did because the story needs those two characters
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: to come to a conclusion. But when you step back,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: you have to wonder how useful Beneathio del Toro is
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: to this operation anymore. He has achieved his ends. He
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: no longer really has a stake in assisting the United
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: States of America in their anti drug efforts. How far
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: away from a bullet in the head is he? If
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: they had one more scene where he's having a beer
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: with Josh Brolin and Josh Brolin blows his head off,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: you go, all right? Of course?
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Right makes perfect sen.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: He's yeah, he's we've we've shopped out load. He's done now.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: He is no longer useful to us. He was only
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: useful when he had an agenda. That agenda has been served,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: moving on, now he gets only the aliability Secario two.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Day of the sold OUTO. Have you seen that movie?
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: No?
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, obviously they stole some notes from you.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: That's a nice way of putting it.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to give away the plot,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: but Alejandro is back and uh, this issue comes up.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: So what I watch? Well, I mean, I I've watched
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: both of these films about five times. But you but
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: I do recommend Day of This sold OUTO. I actually
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: think maybe, well, I'd love to have a show on it.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: But the point being that he does prove to be
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: useful for other things.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: But but to both of your points, it is interesting
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: because you would think in another movie they would have
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: that scene, that would be the addendum scene. As you know,
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: he's going out to his car and turns it on
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: and the car explodes. Like you said, David, gotta clean
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: up all the loose ends, gotta you know, gotta make
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: sure everything is done, and there's nobody left to talk
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: about it. And I love that scene at the end
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: because it's an echo of a scene you know, twenty
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: minutes earlier in the movie where she points Emily Blunt
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: comes upon Benezio del Toro taking the cop hostage, and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: she points a gun at it, and she's like, you
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: gotta stop from taking you under rest, and Benicio del
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: Toro just goes bag bang, shoots her in the chest,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: in her body, in her vest, and goes, don't ever
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: point a gun at me again. And it's like, Okay,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna get the payoff here at the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: end of the movie of that and in that moment,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: we now have seen the transformative nature of the narrative
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: on her character. And it's funny because it's not really
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: that far from the end of the movie where that happens,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: but it's just enough time, there's just enough of an
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: achievement of the goal at that point that we understand, okay, well,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: she realizes that the ends did justify the means in
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: some capacity. And I like that we never see that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: realization on screen ahead of time. It's in that moment
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: that we see it, which again is a director, a writer,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: and the cinematographer trusting the audience to understand what they're
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: conveying through the magic of the filmic language, which is
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: not just audio but visual and dialogue. And I again,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: the end scene of this movie I think is as
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: impactful as any other scene because again it shows the
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: nature to which we are willing to turn a blind
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: eye to getting things done, even if the ends do
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: not justify the means. Because by the end of the movie,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: she is a changed character. Her idealism has been washed
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: away in some respects by the reality of the nihilistic
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: nature of pitting two warring cartels against one another is
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: pretty nihilistic. It's a race to the bottom. But once
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: you figure out which rat is the most dangerous rat
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: of all, then you drown that rat in the bucket too,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: and there you go, everybody. And that's the US apparently.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: I mean that's the take here, right, I mean, that's
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: the take on the US government is the US government
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: is drowning all the rats in a bucket until there's
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: one big rat left, and then we try to drown that.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: It's all about survival of the fittest, and the cynicism
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: behind it, I think comes back to the Taylor Sheridan
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: of it all, because Hell or High Water is a
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: movie that I think is immensely cynical, but also by
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: the end of it, it's very hopeful. This movie is reversed,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: very hopeful at the beginning, immensely cynical at the end,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: Like there's nothing uplifting about the end of this movie.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: You have children playing soccer with gunshots going off in
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: the background. Like that is not an optimistic movie. That
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: is a and you know that's the end. It's just
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Chinatown Jakeo of it all because life continues with or without,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: you know, regardless of what's happening, Life continues, and the
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: cartels are still there.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and typically and again, I imagine being a student
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: in Richard's screenwriting course here. Typically a criticism of a
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: film would be, you know it had six endings. You
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: got to have one ending, right. That would be a
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: pretty good appreciation of a student saying like, you know,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: you keep having another ending. But this film had points
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: where a normal film, a lesser film, could have just
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: ended like okay, Alejandro kills the cartel boss and his
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: family credits. I could have been an ending, right. It
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: could have been that there were three or four points
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: and then the coda of like okay, Emily Blunt, you
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: got to sign this document. You know, either either your
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: your brains or your signature are going to be I mean,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: I have to think that's a direct reference to the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Godfather there. You know, either your brains or your signature
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: is going to be on this paper. But then there's
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: another ending. But they all work. And again, typically in
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: a film, it's a negative criticism to say, yeah, that
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: film had four endings. You know, they should have made
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: up their mind which one. I think all of those
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: endings needed to be there. Again, you're the screenwriting teacher, Richard,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: you tell me, and you're the producer, Chris, you tell me.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I agree, excuse me, I agree. The ending on the
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: family of the corrupt Mexican cop was somewhat required by
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: the math of the screenplay.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: Right, it was negative one right at the end.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: It needed that little yeah, the remainder one. You had
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: to readdress it because it was the one line of
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: narrative that stood outside kind of the main thrust of
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: everything else in the story. It was sort of this alternate,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: parallel story that did need to be concluded, as it were,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: even though it's not really concluded, but it is. It
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: is capped off, it is referenced, and again, what's interesting
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: is then you can have the argument in class, you
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: can have the discussion, you can have the assignment, which
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: is what was the meaning of that storyline? What happens
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: if we removed that storyline. Could that storyline have been
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: removed from the movie? I think it could have. It's
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: like removing a particular instrument from a band or an orchestra.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: But what does it add? The question becomes what does
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: it add? You could jangle those scenes out, you know,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: if the studio put a gun to your head and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: said you don't have to cut ten minutes. Yeah, you
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: could cut that and you would still get the overwhelming
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: gist of the movie. Both plot wise and story wise,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: But to add that little bit of harmony in allows
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: for an even greater picture, because this is a movie
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: that wanted to approach this issue from as many different
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: points of view as possible and show it from a
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: variety of angles. And that's what that storyline allows for.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: And that's why that ending doesn't bug us. Do we
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: need Josh Brolin? Probably not? You know, do we need
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to see what he's up to? We know what he's
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: up to. We thought he was going to be the
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: height of cynicism at the beginning of the movie. Turns
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: out he's not. Turns out he's just kind of a
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: cog in a machine. So so we don't really do
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: you know, Do we need to go back to Daniel,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: you know, her partner. No, we get it. We sort
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: of know. You know, we heard the part he's saying
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: in this choir. We're good. So yeah, it's it's fun.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: This is a great movie to discuss and talk about because,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I again, it's got that perfect mixture of feeling extremely
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: modern and yet all of its themes are go back
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: to the Greeks.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: Taylor Sheridan man, he's he's he's painting with a rather
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: broad brush. But the colors that he's using I feel
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: are rather are not distinctive, but they have not been
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: painted in a while. And Richard, you know this as
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: well as David, like, the Western has fallen out of
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: favor sort of. But to David's point, Yellowstone, Landsman, all
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: these things, those are just Westerns or as I think,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: David you put it last time, what Taylor Sheridan has
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: kind of hwed the Western towards for a while. And
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's if this
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: is the way that the Western can survive as a genre,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: I'm all for it because just to have dudes and
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: cowboy hats running around on horses, there is a moment
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: where that's going to hit a kind of zenith point
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: for people and the fact that we can kind of
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: get whatever this is on the other side of it,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: this kind of you call it a neo Western, or
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: you know, a noir Western, or whatever you want to
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: call it. Like you said, Richard, this is ultimately just
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: a Western.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Well, for my money, the last Western was unforgiven. That
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: was it.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we talked last time about these points where
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: a Western comes along for generationally. The Wild Bunch I
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: remember seeing it and being told this was the Western
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: that ended the Western in the sense that, like the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: last scene is the precursor of World War One, the
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: machine gun, the industry has destroyed, the man against the man,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: you know, the high noon, the personal duels, going back
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: to the Odyssey and the Iliad, where battles are settled
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: by personal duels between heroes. Right, of course, that just
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: up through the Westerns of john Ford, all of it.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: But then along comes in Sam Peckinpau's The Wild Bunch,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: a machine gun that'll take out five hundred people, which
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: it's set just a couple of years before World War One,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: where we discovered that, you know, on a level battlefield
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: against heavy weaponry, your heroism really doesn't mean much anymore.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: And I think that that is something that this film
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: is asking here, is not just a question of like,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: is anybody a hero here, because going back to the
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: ancient Greeks, of course, heroes were people who are literally
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: like Achilles, half man, half god, like their lineage, their
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: parentage was half a man, half a god. And you weren't.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: You weren't.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: If you were an ordinary mortal, you couldn't be a
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: hero like they genetically, they wouldn't allow you to be
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: a hero. We've imposed the idea of someone being a
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: hero who doesn't have that heritage. Tom Cruise obviously is
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: a hero and every film there's in in this film,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: people do things, which again I just I sat there,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: the dinner scene, a whole bunch of scenes, and it
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: went in the direction I didn't expect. Which is the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: greatest respect I have for a movie is when it
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: goes or television show or digital game, when it goes
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: in a direction I don't expect, but I go, oh boy,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: that's better than anything I came up with.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Nice, yeah, yeah, I'm no, I'm with you. This like
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: like I think we've all said, like this could have
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: been and in the hands of a much lesser director
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: and screenwriter and cinematographer, this would have been a very
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: straightforward by the books under we know where this is going,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: we know where this is headed kind of movie, and
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: it is so far from that. And I think, to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: Taylor Sheridan's credit and to Tod nevil Noves credit, this
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: is a movie that I think you know clearly there's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: been one sequel. There may be another sequel. It's I
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: think one of Dnievil noves better movies, even though he's
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: made a whole lot of really great movies as well.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of really great things that go
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: into this movie, not to just mention the acting and
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: everything else. So, I mean, you know, Taylor Sheridan, it's
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: not a surprise that he's been a sick, accessful as
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: he has. But I wouldn't have thought, like, let's translate
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: this into a TV show. Let's translate this tone into
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: a TV show. But man works like Gangbusters, So good
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: for you, good for him.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: He has changed, hasn't it. I mean, yeah, I'm old
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: enough to remember where you know, you you'd watch a
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: CBS drama and you knew that they weren't gonna kill
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: a child on screen, scream right or implied on screen
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: unless it was just the worst villain the world. We
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: live in the streaming world, right we we you can
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: do a lot. But but this does have so many
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: elements that yeah, and in fact, we're gonna see now
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: because it's interesting that Taylor Sheridan has signed a deal
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: with CBS.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: Right, He's he's going to be producing. He Marshals is right,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: stip good again, good for him? Like this if this
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: is what people are resonating with, awesome, like a far
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: be it for me to to argue like this, this
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: genre of filmmaking and television like has it's not really
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: been a thing for a while. So you know, I'm
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna not gonna pooh poo it. So anything
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: else we want to say about Sikario before we close
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: this episode out? No, Richard, no David. No, Okay, Well,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: until the next time I and or Richard and or
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: David come and talk about movies. You can find me
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: over the culture Cast. But more importantly, Richard, where could
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: people find you and the things that you work on?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: People can find me on the award winning Richard Adam's
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: Paranormal Bookshelf podcast. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, or
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: I don't think the last time you were on here
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: you said award winning. What award is that, Richard?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: This signal award?
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: Hell?
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: I got a bronze third place? Motherfucker? Oh wait, I'm
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: sorry once again, I'm sorry.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: I have a bleef. I'm gonna have a bleep button
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: on this A bleep beep bleap me be fair.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: I only there were only two times I said the
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: word fuck. Oh by a second, that's make it three.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: Oh lord, man, you're gonna have to gonna have the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: button here on this one. Speaking of buttons, yeah, go
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: ahead and hit the subscribe or like button or wherever
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: you get your podcast iTunes or Spotify. More than likely
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: like rate and review this show there. Patreon dot com
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: slash culture cast is where you can go to kick
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: a couple dollars my way. You get to hear Richard
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: and I and Mike White talk about James Bond that
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: is coming to an end very quickly. We do not
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: know what we are doing next, but it will probably
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: be just as entertaining as the Bond podcast. Doctor Perlmutter,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for picking the film and requesting
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: Richard's appearance at the party.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Oh thanks man.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: He shows up when asked, only nicely, and as always,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: we'll We'll catch you on the next episode
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: The Bings for the Boks from The Boss The Books
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: f