Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #29 Jesus Has Lost His Mind!

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#29 Jesus Has Lost His Mind! · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: If you're one of those families where for whatever reason,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: you just don't get along or you're the oldest and you've got siblings who are
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: younger than you and they got away with everything and you were the one always held
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: responsible and you resent it.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's not autobiographical, by the way.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're in for a good story today because Jesus, the firstborn,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: has some conflict with his parents, which we don't often think about.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a story that for many years just sort of passed me by.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: But it's really intriguing that when Jesus starts out his ministry, his family isn't fully on board.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: We know that they do become on board or come on board later in his ministry and after,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: but in the early stages,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: not so much.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm Tim Wright.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here with Terry Summers.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Terry, are you still here?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: I am.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Terry's still here.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Deep Grace Diving podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: We're doing a Bible study together, walking through the Gospel of Mark.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Our friend John is still in Germany, and hopefully he'll be back with us for our next podcast.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we're walking through the Gospel of Mark.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking at various stories that give us some insights into Jesus.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen Jesus touch one of the untouchables, a leper.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: We've seen Jesus heal a man who was paralyzed through the power of forgiveness.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about Jesus hanging out with the wrong kinds of people,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: with tax collectors,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: and how Jesus sees us when we don't feel like we're being seen.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Today, we're going to talk a little bit about family stuff.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm going to read,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to come back and read a verse later that will give us a little more context.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm going to start with Mark chapter 3, 31 through 35.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: And as I read this, Terry, I want you to imagine that you're Jesus' mother or sister.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: And we want your visceral response.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Then his mother, meaning Jesus' mother, and his brothers came.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: And standing outside, they sent to him and called him.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: crowd was sitting around him and they said to him your mother and your brothers and
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: sisters are outside asking for you and he replied who are my mother and my brothers
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: and looking at those who sat around him he said here are my mother and my brothers
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: whoever does the will of god is my brother and sister and mother all right terry
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: you've come to see your famous brother mm-hmm
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he won't let me even backstage.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: He won't let you backstage.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: You don't get the pass.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: How are you feeling?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm agitated.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I should have a place with him.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And surely he would know me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, come on.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your sister.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would probably also be hurt.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe even a little...
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nervous.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's going on?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you not recognizing your family?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or why would you say, who are they?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is someone going to replace me in that person's life?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think are my initial visceral responses.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: And he sort of indicates that, doesn't he?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: He looks around and said, who are they?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's you guys.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're my family.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is a really interesting story.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was just going to echo.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would feel threatened a little bit that somebody, you know what I mean?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like our family does that for us, gives us that whatever place in or affirms us.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I might be being challenged by my very own brother.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: So let's give a little context.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: We go back to Mark chapter three, verse, it's about 19b, second half of 19.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Then Jesus went home and the crowd came together again so that they could not even eat,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: meaning the disciples.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him for people were saying he's gone out of his mind.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: So his family has come to either find out what the heck is going on with this guy
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: or because they have the sense he's gone off the loony bin.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: and,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: and,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: this is sort of the tongue in cheek way of saying it,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: but his family probably thought the guy's got a Messiah complex.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: And remember,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: in that culture,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: when the father is gone,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: it's the responsibility of the firstborn to provide for the family.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus is gone, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: He's off speaking, making himself famous.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you can see where...
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: You can see where the family would be somewhat agitated.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is Jesus for heaven's sake.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: I changed his diapers.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: He and I were out working in the carpenter shop with dad when we were kids.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: We played football together.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: We played cards together.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: This is just Jesus.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: And now all this stuff is happening.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Has he lost his mind?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so his family is a bit, they're agitated because of the circumstances leading to it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then when they get there, of course, they get the big diss.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: From Jesus.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: They can't get in.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: So now you've got his family standing on the outside asking to be let in.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And he doesn't let them in.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you said it well.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't get a backstage pass because Terry's an actress.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Arizona Actress of the Year, Terry.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:47
  1998.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: I need you to keep perpetuating that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So you kind of understand what backstage pass is.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: And, of course, I've gotten a chance to go backstage and see you.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you feel sort of privileged, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're friends.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: I get to go back and see the star of the show.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: And here his family can't get in to see him.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is not the first time that we have this sort of issue with Jesus and his family.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: In John chapter 2, we have an interesting story about Jesus going to a wedding in Cana.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the family runs out of wine.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus' mother hears about it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And she pulls Jesus aside and she said, they're out of wine.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus pushes back.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: He said, it's not my time.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not ready to go public yet.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And she just ignores him.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: And she said to the servants, do whatever he tells you to do.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And even though it ends up being a very joy-filled story,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of metaphor of wine bringing joy and Jesus saves the wedding,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: you get a little sense of the tension there of the Jewish mom trying to sort of say
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: to the Jewish son,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: you got to start doing stuff.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the son saying, hey, I got to cut the apron strings here.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we have this story of tension between Jesus and his family.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And what I find wonderful about it is it sort of humanizes Jesus and his family.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: We have these, especially in some Christian traditions, Mary, who is pure and holy.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, she was a 13-year-old kid.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: probably when she had Jesus.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: And think about what we knew when we were 13.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: And she's got to grow up and be a mom,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: and a mom to a child who is showing a propensity to something radically different
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: than maybe her other kids.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then navigate...
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: suddenly this son being famous,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: you've got siblings who are around or maybe jealous of it,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: or they're maybe all angry that he's left them and they have to care for the family.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of families go through this.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of families go through difficulties and hardships, disagreements, misunderstandings.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: In 2024,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: political disagreements between,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: even people in the same house,
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  SPEAKER_03: let alone,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: cousins and in-laws and all that kind of stuff.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus was there.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: He understood all that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So is it because... So what can we take away from that regarding Jesus?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Does he...
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously he was Jesus and we know this hindsight looking at it.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are we gathering by this conflict that, by the way, I never really...
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I never really paid much attention to as I've read this before,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: other than I know he said he wasn't his,
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: it wasn't time.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I hearing it again,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of feeling like,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: this is the first early lesson on acknowledging one's boundaries.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like, like this is my decision about that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: But what are your thoughts on?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, I think that this is in some ways, this is a challenging story.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: from the family dynamics perspective.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus seems pretty blunt here.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: But Jesus, a couple of things, Jesus is doing something really significant as well.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And your boundaries sort of triggered it for me.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: He is setting boundaries around who he is and what his mission is.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that,
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: if he's going to accomplish his mission, his identity can't be fully controlled by his family.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: He has come to be savior for all people.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: And he has a particular mission.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that mission is to invite people to follow him into this kingdom of grace and
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: compassion and mercy and forgiveness.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Something that's going to be radically different than
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: world has really seen before.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Although it's all over the Old Testament scriptures, but Jesus is really showing us what it looks like.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that he can't be hampered by things that may distract from that purpose.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think as a first lesson in terms of Jesus himself and his identity.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think he is also opening the door to what the Jesus community looks like.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: That the Jesus community is not just about people who related to me.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's about people who follow me.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And my family consists of those who want to live in this grace kingdom that I've come to bring.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: So on the one hand, it seems a little bit like he's dissing his family, but we'll come back to that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: But what he's doing is he's creating a new family.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Where we're all invited in.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: And this is a family that's not based on blood ties.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's based on grace ties.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's redefining that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: And he's calling us a family.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: He's calling us his family.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would think for those who might be listening today who feel maybe isolated
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: from their family or who,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: maybe don't have a big family and the family's not around or they're not sure of
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: their identity,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus is saying, you belong to me.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're in my family.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Join the movement.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Let's have Thanksgiving meals together.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Let's have Christmas together.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: And let's do life together as a Christian community, as followers of Jesus.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's what draws us into this new family, is his grace.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's not based on any kind of identity.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not based on what we bring to the table.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's based on what Jesus does for us.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: So if there's gospel in this story or good news,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: it's that we're all included now in this family of Jesus.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think another thing we see is the evolution of Jesus and his relationship with his family.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Here it seems to be pretty rocky.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: But as we get closer and closer to the cross, we discover that, yeah, the...
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever happened, they figured it out.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we know that Mary was around at the time of the crucifixion because Jesus said
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: to his mother,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: John is now going to take care of you.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: And John, by the way, was not a blood family member.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: John was one of the disciples that he gathered around him.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: So he didn't give the responsibility to James, who we think was probably his second brother.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: He gave it to someone who wasn't blood,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: which again is showing that Jesus is creating a new kind of community based on
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: grace and reconciliation.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we know that Mary was there, and we know that Mary probably went to the tomb to anoint his body.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: We know that James...
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: a brother of Jesus became the first leader of the Christian church in the book of Acts.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: And when the church was going through theological challenges and issues,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: it was James,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: the brother of Jesus,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: who was seen as the leader to help arbitrate those decisions.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: And James wrote, we believe, wrote the letter of James.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: So there does seem to be,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: even though there was tension for a while,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: there seems to be reconciliation with Jesus and his family.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that reconciliation,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think we can imagine or surmise,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: came about in the same way that we enter into the family.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: That blood ties are important for Jesus with his own blood and flesh family,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: but really what made them a part of his family
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: was the same thing, grace and reconciliation that came through his death and resurrection.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: So for families that are fragmented,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: it does offer out the hope that Jesus can put broken families back together.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that what can bring broken families back together is
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: are things like forgiveness and grace and compassion,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: a common purpose,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: that common purpose being to love and care for.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And for those who live in those family systems where it's going to be,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: almost impossible to put them back together because there's been so much hurt and pain,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: perhaps abuse,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: maybe generations of it,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: alcoholism,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: whatever it might be,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: where it's just dangerous to go back into the family.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus says, well, I've got a family waiting for you.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you're welcome here.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you're loved here.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that family can be experienced forever.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: Of course,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: we can experience it in our prayer time with Jesus,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: but it's experienced within the context of the community of faith,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: the church.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or should be anyway.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe not always the case, but should be.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Where we come together and we're united by the fact that we all are people in need of grace.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're all people who have been graced and we're all people who are called to bring
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: that grace to those around us.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: So in some ways,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: the story really humanizes Jesus because he had some of the same struggles we do
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: with family stuff.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, it offers great hope to us that there is a family for us.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the father of that family invites us in with open arms, no questions asked.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: You belong here.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: I want you here.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: And you are my beloved son.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: You're my beloved daughter and nothing else matters.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: The,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: the season that,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: proves to be,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I guess one of more evaluating of being,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: of taking a look at,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: at family of courses around the holidays and beyond,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: How can we in this podcast help communicate even if there is not a physical
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: representation like a church that we're a part of or a community that,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: that I know that you just said moments ago that in experiencing that family in
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: prayer with Jesus,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: is there a way to put words around something where that can stand in a gap in our
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: humanness that is more than maybe we would just put our imaginations to?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'm
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: making sense or not.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll use myself as an example,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: just,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I do have,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: a wealth of friends that have been around me and I,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: and I,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: my family per se is a little on the small side,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of numbers,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: but in just being quiet and having conversations with Jesus,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know that
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: that I sense and feel that company and that family.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think it was last week that we said that he sees us and I,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have to work at visualizing that,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I know it and I feel it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then like, sometimes my anxiety will fall away when I go there, but do you have anything that,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: any words that would help solidify that for people that might be similar to me or in,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: or,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: or just facing that feeling of,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: of,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: of being alienated or separated from the greater idea of family.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: So this, this is a tricky one in some ways, because we, we as human beings are created by,
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: to be in face-to-face relationships with people.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: We live in an increasingly isolated world.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Screens, social media.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Just a little story, for example.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: I just finished up a five-part series on Hulu called Social Studies.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a video documented several students in high school over the course of a year,
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: the first year back from school after COVID.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: And the focus was the impact of phones and social media on their lives.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's frightening stuff.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: But what was really interesting to me was at the end,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: The person making the documentary said, you know, just tell us a little bit about this experience.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: And all of the kids in the room said how cool it was to leave their phones outside
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: and sit and have face-to-face conversations with people.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you got the sense that this was really unique for them.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: And how freeing it was to just have to look in people's faces and to hear that
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: they're going through what you're going through.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And how freeing it was to be off of social media.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: But then the irony was,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: as soon as they were done,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: they all rushed out and picked up their phones and got back onto social media.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Social media is not a replacement for family.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we know this because...
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: People are more depressed than they've ever been when they're on social media.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: There are a lot of people who say, I don't need to go to church.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: I can commune with God in nature.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And there's some truth to that.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: But God created us to experience God through other human relationships.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: And this is not easy, especially now, to insert ourselves or to have the courage to go,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: to places that at first might make us uncomfortable,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: going to a church,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: for example,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: or joining a Bible study.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: The people who really get this are those in recovery.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: They group all the time because they know that the success of their recovery is
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: dependent on them being in face-to-face contact with people.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's so true.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the Bible says the word became flesh
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: and dwelt among us.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus became flesh.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't become social media.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't become a meme.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: He became flesh because we're only human in flesh to flesh relationship with people.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is where it gets a little challenging for us.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: I do believe that we can have
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: a family experience with Jesus, reading scripture on our own, praying, being in the woods.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: But that can only take us so far.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: At some point, we have to be with other human beings to see that this is my family.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: Especially those of us who don't have close family ties, blood ties.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: To be in an environment where
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: We've got some friends like you have that we can connect with,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: who can hug us,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: who can laugh with us,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: who can do important things with us,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: live life with purpose with us,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: support us when we're down,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: correct us when we're going off the rails,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: receive support from us.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why what's interesting about this story is
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus said, who is my mother, who is my brother, who is my sister, those who do the will of God.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: But he's saying that within the context of people sitting around him.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: They're connected both by their understanding or they're connected by Jesus,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: but they're also connected by being in that room together.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, again, are you a baseball player if you're not on a baseball team?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Are you a football player if you're not on a football team?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Christianity is not a solo act.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I do recognize the challenge it can be to church shop and then to find your way
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: into a church because a lot of times the people who are there already know each
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: other and sometimes it's hard to break in.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: if you've never done church shopping before,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: to find a church where it's not going to be one of those churches where you just
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: feel bad about yourself every time you walk out,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: but you're liberated and you feel loved and you know that God's called you to do
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: something great.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: I know all of that is challenging.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: But it's kind of like what we talked about with the Sabbath last week.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: The Sabbath rehumanizes us.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: People-to-people relationships rehumanizes us.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you just can't do it without that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: some of us are fortunate in that we do have some family ties,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: blood ties that we can pop into it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Jan and I, we have each other.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: That helps.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, we have our faith together.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: We have our grandkids and our kids.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: That becomes somewhat of our family.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: But we also need the broader family to be a part of.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: But so many people are isolated today.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's become an epidemic in our culture.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: And if there's one thing the Christian church could offer, it doesn't always, is family.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: As in tied together, not by blood, but by grace.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: And one other story, and then kind of let you comment.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: I was listening to a...
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: someone who's left the church.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: She's been deeply hurt by a lot of the Christian nationalism stuff that she's seen
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: over the last few years.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: The people that the tradition that she came from sort of being a part of that
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: movement and the lack of grace that it shows.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: And, but she did say the one thing she really misses is the community.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, I have a lot of friends who've left the church and we all say the same thing.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: We miss the community.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: We miss the people.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was really interesting.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's an affirmation, but it's really interesting to me.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: because then soon your family is just those online.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the time that's fake.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: So to get back to the story, there's a lot going on here.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus, like us, had some issues with his family.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus was able to resolve those issues.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't always happen.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: But Jesus does create this larger family for all of us to be a part of, where every time we get together,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: We should be able to hear that we're loved and we're cared for.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: And here's my rule of thumb.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've preached about this.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: No one should ever leave a worship service without hearing loudly and clearly that God loves them.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're at a church where you're not hearing that,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: please don't call up your pastor now and tell him instead to leave the church.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: But if you're leaving church and you feel worse about yourself, something isn't right.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: You should always walk out inspired with the good news that you're a part of a family that loves you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: And however they express that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's comforting.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's comforting and hopeful.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even in the season that I'm in, just...
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It makes a difference.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, powerfully so, but.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I would imagine for you, there are times you just have to grieve alone.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: You just got to get in that dark room and just let it out.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then there are other times when you got to be around human beings to remind
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: yourself that you're a human.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm not just saying this because it's you,
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: but I have with your kind of winding down and heading,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: changing things in your life.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of being a pastor where you are,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have come to catch some of your last sermons and I'm sort of counting down as I,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: as I get to grab one,
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: but being there with all of you after having been with all of you for many years in
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: my life and
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just felt like home.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And just being there.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I knew I was going to be treated and spoken to through the music and you.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the main takeaways was sitting there.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always a front row person,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: but sitting on the front row and just being there and it has been healing and,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: and nurturing to me and so comforting.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even sometimes if I couldn't make myself barely get out of the house to go,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: but so I,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: that echoes what we're talking about here for sure.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if you don't hear anything else, folks,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: There's a family waiting for you and they love you.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: And Jesus loves you.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're a part of his family.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think he wants you to meet some of your siblings.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: That may take a little bit of stepping out of your comfort zone,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: but there are some people out there to love you.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Terry, thank you.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, Tim, thank you.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, if you enjoy this podcast, would you share it with someone and let them enjoy it?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then we will be back with you.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're listening to the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Tim Wright along with Terry Summers and our good friend John D.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Burgess who is in Germany being an Air Force guy and hopefully he'll be back with
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: us next time.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: This is a little Morse code.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's spelling out the word grace.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: We want to leave you with that.