Latest / MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt / Kolette Hall - How to Make Confident Decisions: Grief, Faith & the Clarity Framework for Intentional Living

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Kolette Hall - How to Make Confident Decisions: Grief, Faith & the Clarity Framework for Intentional Living · MIDDLE GROUND - Real Conversations on Faith, Identity & Becoming — Through Brynne's LDS Lens of Curiosity, Love and Doubt

• Brynne Erickson (00:31) Colette Hall, I am so excited to chat with you tonight. How are you feeling about being on middle ground with me? Kolette Hall (00:39) I feel great about it. I feel honored. Thank you. Brynne Erickson (00:41) Yeah? Awesome, I am so excited. Colette is first, my aunt, second, one of my most favorite people to talk to. She's so knowledgeable and such a good listener. And she has an amazing life with tons of experience and so much to share, which makes her such an excellent life coach. And she is a life coach for leaders. So we are going to talk all about her methods and some experiences that have helped her get to where she is today. And she's going to help us understand better how to make choices and become the best that we can be and exactly who we want to be and what that can look like. We've got lots to talk about tonight and I'm excited to learn from you. Kolette Hall (01:35) Yeah, me too. Thank you so much for having me. Brynne Erickson (01:38) Yeah, no problem. Kolette Hall (01:41) Can you hear Coleman downstairs? There's the TV going on and they're like cheering for Madden. I just wanted to make sure you can edit that part out, but I just want to make sure. Okay. Brynne Erickson (01:43) Nope, you're I hear a thing. No, you're good. Yep, we will. Okay, you ready to kick back up? Okay, go ahead. Alright, so where would you like to start tonight? Kolette Hall (02:05) Maybe we give a little bit of background that sort of sets the stage for us, if that's all right. ⁓ Yeah, so one of your other favorite people in my life and your life is ⁓ my husband Jason, who passed away six years ago. And so I think it's important for us to kind of start there because ⁓ Brynne Erickson (02:11) Hmm. Yeah, definitely. Kolette Hall (02:36) A lot of what, ⁓ how my life has gone over the last 35 years has been shaped by my marriage to him. And I know that you love Jason so much and I love Jason so much. And so why don't we, why don't I give a little bit of a history with that to just kind of give us a foundation and we can go from there. Does that work? Okay. So. Brynne Erickson (02:51) Yes. That'd be amazing. Yes, please. Let's do it. Kolette Hall (03:06) Jason and I were married way back in 1992. And we met at Brigham Young University. We were both student body officers there. And the year we were married, he was actually the student body president at BYU. And when Jason was 15 years old, he broke his neck. He was in a diving accident at Lake Powell. And that's a lake here in the Utah area, Arizona area. and broke his neck and then I met him at BYU and we got married and so he was a quadriplegic in a wheelchair. So he was a quadriplegic in a wheelchair and ⁓ really easy to fall in love with as you know, right? I mean, Brynn, you know, I'm just gonna tell all your people Brynn is the oldest grandchild and ⁓ Brynne Erickson (03:54) Yes, absolutely. I don't... Kolette Hall (04:06) had a lot of time riding on Jason's wheelchair, sitting on his lap and ⁓ just being a toddler and being a little girl growing up and just really loving Jason. And I think you had a fun little relationship and he loves you, loves you dearly. So we had a lot of physical challenges ⁓ in our lives and Brynne Erickson (04:10) Yeah. Yes. out. Kolette Hall (04:35) ⁓ I think, you know, people often have different things that they deal with. And I would say that physical things were our thing. We didn't have a lot of other kinds of problems that maybe other people have, but we definitely had that. And so ⁓ we were married for 27 years before he passed away unexpectedly. We have one son and he honestly, literally is a miracle. the ability that medical science has to help us in the reproductive process is astounding. ⁓ 16 years after Jason and I were married, we got Coleman and ⁓ he really is such a miracle and we're so grateful to have him. And Coleman was 10 years old when his dad died. Brynne Erickson (05:07) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (05:33) And like I said, it's not like we expected Jason to live till he was 100 years old or anything, you know, with the physical challenges that he had. His break in his neck was at the C5, C6 vertebrae, and ⁓ he had pretty much no use of ⁓ anything from the chest down, and then partial use of his arms, no use of his hands. So he was in a power wheelchair. Brynne Erickson (05:40) right? Kolette Hall (06:02) There's just a lot of things that happen, you know, when you have to sit in a chair like that and a lot of different things that kind of break down in your body. And so we were used to those kinds of things, but yeah, Coleman was 10 when he passed away. He had some damage to an artery that one night dumped half his blood around his lung. And we did not know that that this damage was there. And so he died that night. So it was unexpected. Like I said, even though we weren't thinking that he would live forever, it was unexpected. He passed away when he was 48, and both of us were 48. And so that just kind of gives us an idea and shapes. Brynne Erickson (06:39) Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (06:56) a little bit about where I am now and the kinds of things that I care about and the kinds of things that I help people with and like to help myself with. That shapes ⁓ a lot of the discussions. So anything else you wanna add with that? Brynne Erickson (07:07) Hmm. No, I think that sets a very good stage for your life and the experiences that you've had and where you are today. Kolette Hall (07:27) Great. So where do you want to go from here? Brynne Erickson (07:30) I forget what I texted you. Kolette Hall (07:32) We had talked about doing like talking about grief and what I want to have happen and segue into what I wanted to have happen with church, my church journey. So those were. Brynne Erickson (07:44) Right. So, okay, then let me ask you, so, cause you post a lot about grief. Well, not a lot, but you do like when you're feeling it. So is that kind of where we're going to go into is. Kolette Hall (07:51) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, and I just. I mean, if you want to ask me something about, you know, how did you, how did you handle it? You know, when Jason died or what was your strategy or like, is there something about decision-making or planning with a purpose that is impactful to you in your life? Cause maybe you can just say like, this is how I've seen you live. Can you tell us more about how you've made that? You decide how you want to. Brynne Erickson (08:29) Yeah. Okay. So ⁓ I've seen you ⁓ practicing your coaching a lot on Instagram and you pose a lot of questions for people to think about and you model for all of us how you are working through your own thoughts and your own emotions. So I was wondering what kind of process do you use when addressing a thought? or an emotion that comes up for you. Kolette Hall (09:07) Good question. Good question. ⁓ I feel like Jason and I had to... decide how we were going to ⁓ experience life very purposefully and intentionally. And the really cool thing is when we were in student government way back when we first got married, we were taught a process by our mentors there, Marin Moritzon and Tammy Quick, who we just love dearly and Brynne Erickson (09:26) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (09:47) this process is called, it was back then it was called planning with a purpose. For some reason, I just like really latched onto it. It made a lot of sense to me. It brought a lot of focus and intention into everything I was doing. And so I just used it everywhere. And because Jason also understood it, I'm not sure if I had been with somebody that didn't. Brynne Erickson (09:51) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (10:15) that hadn't learned that process, I'm not sure if it would have even like I would have maybe been an island, you know, like just trying to do it myself. But because he had learned it to we we both just kind of lived our lives using these principles that we had learned at at BYU. And I I feel like it's it's one of the most amazing blessings that we were given because For some reason, it just like seeped into my bones. And I became a school teacher like you, you're a school teacher. And I was a school teacher, that was my first career. And ⁓ it just made so much sense to me to plan everything with intention and purpose. And it always helped me figure out how I was gonna get the result that I wanted. And so, It's like planning a lesson plan. If you don't have an idea of the outcome, then how are you gonna get to the outcome? How are you gonna get to the result? And so all of that made a lot of sense to me. And over the years, I have used my teaching ability to like almost dissect the process and look at the process and say, okay, I wanna teach it to somebody else. Brynne Erickson (11:23) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (11:41) But how could I do this in a more simple way? How could I do this so that it makes a little bit more sense so that somebody can understand what each of these four steps really mean and apply them to their life? And ⁓ so that's what I've spent the last 30 years practicing, living the process. I like to call it the clarity framework because it Brynne Erickson (11:55) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kolette Hall (12:10) It brings clarity for you of what you want to have happen. And it kind of doesn't matter what anybody else wants. It's identifying what you want and then pursuing that. And so I've had these 30 years of practice with it and kind of massaging it and changing it and working with it and like, hmm. Brynne Erickson (12:21) Hmm. Kolette Hall (12:37) saying it that way doesn't really make sense to people. How can I say it in a more clear way? And how can I help them apply it to their lives? How can I apply it to my life and even like the tiniest decisions, as well as the big, huge decisions and the big plans? And so I've been working with this thing and now it's just, I don't know, it's just part of me. It's who I am, it's how I think and I love sharing it with other people. And so as a coach, ⁓ which that's what I'm doing now since Jason died, I decided to become a life coach and we're bringing in these principles to help other people ⁓ make the very best decisions that are right for them. And so if you want to, can kind of talk about what that looks like. Brynne Erickson (13:30) Yeah, a question that came to my mind and actually my brother Ryan asked me this once. He was like, how do you know what you want? And I honestly did not know how to answer him. I was like, I've never really had that problem. Like I just have always kind of known like, I want to do all of these things. Which one do I want to accomplish right now? So I was wondering if you have any insight to that question. Kolette Hall (13:56) How do you decide which one? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (13:58) Me? Myself? ⁓ I kind of base it more on like what sounds more fun at the time or which option is more fun, which option is like the path of least resistance sometimes. And Yeah, like I'll kind of explore each one and get some more information. And then after I have the information, it kind of makes it easier to choose which option I want. But that's how I go about making decisions. But I think Ryan was more like, I have no clue. Like I'm just doing life and I have no idea what I actually want. I'm just subject to whatever's thrown at me. Maybe that's what he was getting at. Kolette Hall (14:53) Yeah, and I don't think that that's really how he lives his life, but maybe he doesn't know how to put words to it, what's actually happening. And so why don't we do that? Why don't we put some words to it? Why don't we ask ourselves some questions, okay? And do you want to use you as an example? Okay, perfect. So I'll set this up and teach it a little bit. Brynne Erickson (14:57) I think so too. ⁓ Sure, let's do it. Kolette Hall (15:21) Let's talk about grief just for a second. Okay? And I'll teach the process. It's four questions that we ask. And one of them is the golden question, the magical question that honestly, if you don't ask any of the other questions, just ask this one. And I'll tell you what that is. But I had a friend who recently, we were actually at the funeral of the woman who taught Jason and I. Brynne Erickson (15:24) Okay. Hmm, okay. Kolette Hall (15:51) this, these principles back in BYU and a friend of ours was there and she, she's about my age and, I don't see her that often. And she said, she said, you know, I, I look at what you're doing on Instagram. I read your books and I just want to know like, how do you know what comes next? Brynne Erickson (16:12) Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Kolette Hall (16:14) All right. And I think that a lot of people wonder that at different times in their lives, right? What comes next? How do I know what comes next? And I said, do you mean how do I know what comes next right now? Or how did I know what comes next when Jason died? Brynne Erickson (16:20) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (16:35) And she said, ⁓ yeah, I guess those are different. And I said, right, that's that's the whole point is that they're different. And so let's let's walk through just a little bit of that, of how I decide what comes next. Does that sound good? And then and then we'll take an example that you have, we can kind go through what you just said, because I'm going to I'm going to push back a little bit on. Brynne Erickson (16:41) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, that's a great plan. Okay. Ooh, I like it. Okay. Kolette Hall (17:04) to actually make decisions because I think it's more than, it sounds fun. So I think that's part of it, but I think it's more than that. ⁓ So after Jason died, I could do certain things and I could not do certain things. I only had the energy and the capacity to be able to handle a certain amount of brain power, physical. Brynne Erickson (17:08) Yeah, sweet. Kolette Hall (17:32) needs. I was taking a couple of naps a day. I was just really tired. ⁓ I could do like one thing. There's so many things that you have to do when somebody close to you like that dies and like a lot of administrative things that have to be done. And ⁓ I had a 10-year-old son to take care of and I had my own feelings to feel. And so in that case, Brynne Erickson (17:46) right? Kolette Hall (17:59) When we're looking at the clarity framework, when we're trying to figure out what we're doing, okay, and we want it to have purpose, we want it to have intention. So even in the depths of grief, I still wanted to have purpose and I still wanted to have intention, okay? But that just might look a little different than two days before he died. the kind of purpose and intention that was happening. So what we do is the first step is we ask ourselves, what is important to me? And these are the things that we value. And they are the overarching, I want everybody to imagine like an umbrella that over arches your whole life. Every decision that you're making in your family, Brynne Erickson (18:32) Yeah. Kolette Hall (18:56) in your life. I think even our business decisions, church decisions, whatever it is, it all usually fits under the same umbrella. And there's certain principles and there's certain values that we really care about. And they don't often change. Maybe we might add something, but it usually doesn't change from decision to. And so some of those things might be, OK, I really care about connection to family. That's a value. Okay? It's not going to change. And you might even simplify even more by saying just connection to other people, right? And sometimes it's families. Sometimes you feel connected to the people that you work with. Sometimes you feel connected to your neighbors, you know, but you just want like connections with humans. Okay? And maybe another thing that you value is like love, right? Giving love, receiving love. Brynne Erickson (19:36) Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kolette Hall (19:56) Maybe something else that you value is generosity. Maybe another thing that you value is work. Brynne Erickson (20:05) So these basically like guide you, right? Kolette Hall (20:07) Yeah, they're like things that are important to you. Yeah, things that are important to you. And so you just can stop and think a little bit. Like I like doing the exercise of having this on my mind and maybe having a note in my phone or something and jot down ideas of what could be your values. What could be the things that are the most important to you? Okay. The most important to you. So I think for you, Brynn, fun is one of them. Brynne Erickson (20:09) and like your guideposts, yeah. Kolette Hall (20:37) Okay, fun is one of them, all right? So these are the things that over arch everything. Now, we're gonna get into individual decisions or plans for specific things. So the rest of the questions have to do with individual decisions that we're making. And this is where the golden question comes in. So we figured out what we value and then we ask ourselves, okay. Brynne Erickson (21:01) E-value. Kolette Hall (21:05) What do I want to have happen? What do I want to have happen? So let's say with my grief situation, let's think about like the days right after Jason died and the weeks right after. Okay, then I thought to myself, what do I want to have happen here? Like during this time? And we're talking about a result or an outcome. Brynne Erickson (21:21) Yeah. Kolette Hall (21:41) We're not talking about what we're doing yet. We're talking about what we're going to end up with. All right? And the way that I like to teach that and describe that, because it can be a little bit ethereal to think about that. so what I want you to think about is, what do I want to be thinking? What do I want to be feeling? What do I want to be learning? Brynne Erickson (21:46) the end. Yeah, it's kind of abstract. Kolette Hall (22:10) What do I want to be becoming? Okay? Brynne Erickson (22:15) at the other side of this or at the destination, I guess. even during, okay. Kolette Hall (22:17) At the other side of this or during, during this, what am I experiencing? What is going on with, with this experience? What am I thinking, feeling, doing or learning and becoming? Okay. And so when you identify those kinds of things for myself, I thought, all right, I want to be thinking. that we can do this. that I can ask for help. I want to be thinking about Jason. I want to be thinking about what I can do to help Coleman. And what do I want to be feeling? I want to be feeling all the things. I want to be feeling all of it. So when I feel sad, I want to feel sad and allow myself to feel sad. When I feel angry at him, I want to feel mad. When I feel overwhelmed, I want to feel it. Okay? And so I identified, I'm gonna feel everything. I'm also gonna be thinking like we can do this and we can get help. And then the things I wanna be like doing and learning, I wanna be like asking for help. I wanna do like show up for Colvin. That would be something that I would say I'm gonna be available for him as he needs it. And then what am I becoming? I'm just like kind of surviving. Right? Like in those two weeks, those few weeks, the first month or whatever, I didn't really have big becoming. Brynne Erickson (24:10) Yeah. Right. Kolette Hall (24:21) outcomes with this. And so if I'm gonna feel everything and I'm gonna be thinking we can do this, even though I'm sad, even though it's heartbreaking, right? Then the next question that we ask is, okay, what is a good way to make those things happen? What is a good way for me to be able to feel everything I'm process through it? What is a good way for me to be thinking, we can do this, I can ask for help. Like, how am I going to accomplish this result? Those are the plans. Those are the actual plans. And usually, Brynne Erickson (25:06) Right. And I like because it's catered to you, like it's specifically to you. It's not like, like the framework is for everyone, but you can fit in individualized bits about you all throughout the way. Kolette Hall (25:28) Yeah, that's the point. Yeah, that's the point. Exactly. And so like when Ryan was wondering, how do you know what you want? Brynne Erickson (25:29) Go figure. Kolette Hall (25:39) he could figure out what he wants. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, so maybe I'll have a conversation with him. He'll be so glad. But yeah, I think that it helps us when we stay focused on what we want to have happen and we have like this result or this outcome that we're headed toward, then Brynne Erickson (25:40) Mm-hmm, with the framework, yeah, the structure. That'd be good, yeah. Absolutely. Kolette Hall (26:07) What ends up happening with our plans is pretty much any plan that you want can work if it helps you create the result that you want. If it supports that result, then it's a good plan. And then you can just decide which plan feels right to you or you want to pursue or whatever. But I promise you there's a million ways. Brynne Erickson (26:24) Mm-hmm. Right. Kolette Hall (26:33) to accomplish what you wanna have happen. And usually what we do when we're trying to make a plan, we're usually saying, okay, these are the things that I value. I value connection with my family. I value fun. I value generosity, whatever the things are. Okay, now what are we gonna do? Brynne Erickson (26:54) Yeah, what's the plan? Yeah. Kolette Hall (26:54) That's usually how it goes. What's the plan? And this little step in between of figuring out what do really want to be experiencing? Okay, then what's a way to do that? Brynne Erickson (27:07) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (27:09) and then just picking away. So then the fourth step is to ask yourself, like, how am I doing? Am I creating what I want to have happen? You're just checking in. And it happens throughout the plan making. It happens after. It happens while you're executing it. But you're just constantly looking like, am I really creating what I want to have happen here? Brynne Erickson (27:18) Hmm. checking in. Yeah. Hmm. Kolette Hall (27:37) Do I need to tweak something? Do I need to change something? Do I need to toss it completely? Do I need to add something in? Or yes, I'm nailing it. Brynne Erickson (27:41) Yeah. Yeah. Kolette Hall (27:50) Right? And so this is really important, I think, for all parents, because we are in a time of a lot of information, which is amazing. And it's also confusing sometimes. Brynne Erickson (27:51) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Kolette Hall (28:10) And so this is what I would say to every parent. If you figure out what you value and what you want to have happen with something, then I promise you any plan you make to get there is a good plan. Brynne Erickson (28:26) So what about the people in the circumstances that you can't control along the way as you're trying to accomplish your plan? What do do about that? Kolette Hall (28:36) Yeah, so make it real. do you mean by that? Brynne Erickson (28:41) So, um, I want to make, Oh, I had an example in my life. Oh, my birthday. So I wanted my birthday to be a awesome day and I wanted it to, I actually, I didn't know, like I obviously my birthday, didn't sit and be like, okay, today's outcome will be this. Like I didn't wake up that, but subconsciously I wanted it to be. easy and free from contention and just weightless and it was not like it was the end of the day came it was like that was hard and just like every other day like it was just another day of being mom it wasn't anything special for me and it should have been because it was my birthday. Kolette Hall (29:36) Yeah, this is real. This is very real. Brynne Erickson (29:37) Yes, this is real life. So the end of I was bummed like the end of my birthday that night. I was like, I'm kind of really sad. And yeah, just my kids were super contentious. And I don't remember some other plans didn't happen the way I probably had hoped. So there you go. So I had hoped for these things for this day, but my people didn't pull through and show up the way that I wanted them to. I definitely did not tell them what they were supposed to do, right? Like, it's not like I told them they... Okay. Kolette Hall (30:09) Okay, so that was gonna be my, yeah, that was my first question. Like, did you communicate or were you expecting mind reading to happen? Brynne Erickson (30:14) For sure not. For sure not. like I said, it's not like I even really woke up with intent. I didn't even realize I had that expectation for my birthday until the end of the day when it was not happening and I was so sad and bummed. So no, I did not verbalize any expectations to my six and my three-year-old. Kolette Hall (30:40) shocking that they didn't fulfill your inside your head expectation. Brynne Erickson (30:46) Right? And even if I had verbalized it, but anyway, yeah, so verbalizing, right? And your expectations or your desires, at least. But what else? Kolette Hall (30:56) Okay, so let's just step back for a second and let's just decide we're gonna be intentional about each day, including our birthdays, okay? And we're just gonna decide how we're going to experience it, no matter what happens. Brynne Erickson (31:00) Okay. Mm-hmm. No matter what. Okay. All right. Kolette Hall (31:18) Okay. And so in this situation, what's something that you value, value fun, you value connection, you, sounds like you've, you wanted to feel special. Okay. So in this case, I would say what you wanted to have happen. So this is step two, what you wanted to have happen, what you wanted to be thinking, feeling, doing, or learning and becoming on your birthday is you wanted to be thinking, this is an awesome day. Brynne Erickson (31:29) Yeah, probably. Yeah. Kolette Hall (31:48) You wanted to be thinking, I feel special. Brynne Erickson (31:51) Yes. Kolette Hall (31:53) You want to be thinking it's so easy to have a birthday and I just feel weightless. What a wonderful, blissful day. Right. And you wanted to feel weightless, easy, cared for, cherished, honored. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (32:05) Mm-hmm, right. Yes, basically the queen, yes. Kolette Hall (32:19) Yeah, the queen. Yeah. Okay. So you wanted to feel all those things and you wanted your, your plan. So let's just go to step three. Your plan to create that result was I'm going to leave it in the hands of my husband and my two children to make me feel this way. Okay. So do you see that you might have other options for what the plan could be? Brynne Erickson (32:39) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (32:50) Because I'm not going to say you can't feel like it's an awesome day and that it's easy and weightless and free from contention. Because I think you can have all of that. Brynne Erickson (33:03) I'm not thoroughly convinced yet, but I'm excited to find out. Kolette Hall (33:07) Yeah, well all of that happens within you. Brynne Erickson (33:13) I mean that makes sense because no one can create my feelings for me. I do that. Kolette Hall (33:20) Right. Yeah. And so you felt bummed and sad because you were thinking they didn't measure up. I should have had a different birthday situation today. My kids were just yelling and arguing. I didn't get what I thought I should get to be the queen today. Right. And so you didn't. I mean, it's fine that you thought all those things, but let's just take radical responsibility for them. Brynne Erickson (33:52) Yeah, that's, I am familiar with this process and it was really hard for me in the beginning to be like, what do you mean? I am the one taking or creating my feelings. And it, it was really, I had a lot of resistance to that, but now it's way more liberating being, I actually do have control of my life and my circumstances and what happens. Kolette Hall (34:05) Yeah. Brynne Erickson (34:21) for me and how I feel. And it's funny when I am unintentional and those feelings just come at me. I'm like, oh, this is so, but now I can look at it with curiosity and be like, this is fascinating that I'm feeling this right now. where, what am I thinking that's creating that for me? Do I want to be thinking that or what's a thought that could support what I actually want to feel? And so I will be approaching my birthday differently next year, for sure. Kolette Hall (34:57) Yeah, and I think that's really important. A lot of people don't want to take responsibility for that. And it doesn't mean that everything is great. We're always feeling good. And even in the times where, where I don't behave the way that I want to, because I'm thinking something that's not super useful in the situation, or even if I think it is useful or I think it is true. Brynne Erickson (35:02) Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (35:25) And it's like, well, I have to feel this. It's like, well, I'll feel it because I'm thinking this, but I can always choose something different. Brynne Erickson (35:38) Right. Kolette Hall (35:39) And maybe I don't want to choose that right now because I want to be really mad or I want to be bummed out or I want to be sad. But I still take responsibility for how I'm feeling because otherwise I have no power. Brynne Erickson (35:43) Mm-hmm. You've given it away. Kolette Hall (35:57) Otherwise you're leaving your emotional state in the hands of a six year old. Brynne Erickson (36:06) Woohoo. Kolette Hall (36:07) Is that who you want to be in charge of your emotional state. And it goes both ways. You're not in charge of his emotional state either. Even though we, we like to try to manage everybody else's emotional state. So we give the power away and we try to take on the power to be in charge of other people. It's a very interesting thing. If we just like hand. Brynne Erickson (36:31) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (36:35) the power back to the people that it belongs to. Hand your kids their power, you're teaching them how to use it, hand your husband his power, you take back your power. That's where the magic is. Brynne Erickson (36:41) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, like there are no bad emotions. That was, right, that was a new concept for me. Like it really is important to feel all of them, like their information. And yeah, we can just take responsibility. radical responsibility, okay. Kolette Hall (36:51) No, no. I call it radical responsibility. I take radical responsibility for however I'm experiencing life. Brynne Erickson (37:22) Makes sense. Kolette Hall (37:22) It doesn't mean that it's all happy and rainbows and perfect, but I take responsibility for it because how I'm responding to everything going on around me is how I experience life. And that's what we have more control of than we often think we do. So, you know, your birthday next year, like I personally, people will say things like my birthday or Mother's Day is another big one. And I'm just like, you know what? I decided a long time ago that I am not going to put Mother's Day in the hands of my child. Brynne Erickson (37:45) I agree. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (38:11) Like what happens on Mother's Day? He's not in charge of how I experience Mother's Day. And so I might request certain things and I might say, hey, I would like to do this or I'm going to buy myself a gift or I want you to tell me. Okay, here's an example. You're ready for it? Last Mother's Day, I think it was last Mother's Day. Maybe I've done it two years. Brynne Erickson (38:21) Right. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm, yes. Kolette Hall (38:38) I was like, hey, so all I want for Mother's Day is for you to tell me something great about me in a text. And I am just going to ask you for it all day long. And so like all day, was a day of church and whatever. And I was like texting, you know, in the middle of church. Okay, I'm ready for another one. Okay, I'm ready for like, how about another one? And he would like, it became like this joke, right? Like I looked at it like a joke, like in the best way possible. But then he's like coming up with these things and he's texting it to me of, know, all these random things that Brynne Erickson (39:03) You I love it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (39:23) He loves about me. Yeah, I took Mother's Day into my own hands. I took my happiness on Mother's Day into my own hands. And so even if the kids are arguing and whatever, it's like, right, of course they are. Instead of thinking like, like, cause moms will say this. They'll say, I just want one day of no fighting. And you can't even give me that. And it's like, right. Right. But like, you don't have to have that expectation. You can decide that it's an amazing, wonderful day, even if the kids are fighting because chances are. Brynne Erickson (39:55) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (40:12) that children, siblings, I mean, has there ever been a day that they haven't gotten in like a little thing? Brynne Erickson (40:17) right. Yep. It's like you're setting everyone else, everyone up for failure, right? Yourself and the kids. It's like, clearly this is a big stretch, a big ask. And you're just kind of setting everybody up to not make it happen. Kolette Hall (40:30) Right, right, right. Yeah, and so I like this because I take it into my own hands and say, okay, what kind of experience do I want to have on Mother's Day when I know that my kid is not going to remember? Brynne Erickson (40:45) Hmm? Kolette Hall (40:46) that it's Mother's Day, even though he's 16 years old, and he probably should remember. Like, I could go down that path very easily. Like, he should remember, he should know. Brynne Erickson (40:49) Right. sheds. Kolette Hall (41:00) I've asked him every year. I even gave him some warnings. Mother's Day is coming up. You know, like I could put my experience in the hands of the 16 year old. and I'm just choosing not to. So it's Mother's Day the way that I want to experience it. And now we have like a funny memory and. Brynne Erickson (41:24) Right. I love it. That's very clever. And I think it takes some thinking out of the box sometimes too, because most of us, it's the initial, like they should know, they should be able to read my mind, essentially, or remember, or the shouldn't be that hard. And I think that's where grace comes in. It's like, they're not me. Like maybe this is easy for me. And I remember this and that is an awesome thing about me. Kolette Hall (41:30) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Brynne Erickson (41:58) but no one else is me, right? And that's why, again, why I love this plan because it's like, am, know me or I'm learning more about me through this process and what matters to me and how to make these things happen in a way that's meaningful to me. And I actually have a lot of say over and control over. And this is empowering. my gosh, I'm creating what I want. I'm feeling what I want. I'm thinking what I want. yeah, it's because I'm intentionally putting all of the thoughts, the feelings, the becoming into action. So it's incredibly empowering. Kolette Hall (42:42) Yeah, so I would say that I live with intention. And it's not, but it's like with everything. Brynne Erickson (42:48) Mm-hmm, me too. Kolette Hall (42:54) every conversation. Like I could be having a conversation with Coleman, but I have a very clear idea of what I want to have happen with him as a teenager and how we communicate. want there to be very open communication between us. And so I'm constantly reminding myself, what do want to have happen? Like in the middle of the conversation, when he comes home late, when there's a problem. Brynne Erickson (43:08) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Kolette Hall (43:25) And I'm like, okay, what do want to have happen? I want open communication. All right, how am going to create that? Brynne Erickson (43:30) Well, and with that one, that one's interesting because a lot of it rests on him too. So like even though you're doing what you think is helpful to create that open communication doesn't necessarily mean that he'll reciprocate. So how have you navigated that? Kolette Hall (43:47) You try new things. Like, is this working? So that's step four. Is this helping create the outcome? And it's like, hmm, maybe I need to listen more. Maybe I need to not have such a high expectation that he's supposed to respond a certain way. Maybe I need to give him more space. Maybe I need to just express that I trust him more. Maybe communicating through memes and reels Brynne Erickson (43:51) Is it helping create my outcome? Hmm. Kolette Hall (44:15) is actually a bigger deal than I'm giving it credit for. Brynne Erickson (44:20) Did you ever have a conversation being like, really want to have an open communication with you? What could that look like for us? So you involve him in the process as well. Kolette Hall (44:27) I say things like that all the time. I say things like that all the time. I'm like, is what I want to have happen. Brynne Erickson (44:34) Mm-hmm. This matters to me. Kolette Hall (44:38) And I get if you don't want to have that, is there a way that we could come up with a plan of how to make that? But I also have decided I'm going to look for ways that it's working. And so this idea of like, he'll send me, know, reels or something. UYU football or something about little puppies because we have a little dog or something like funny mom things where he's like making fun of me, you know, like mom reels or whatever. And I'll send him the latest like ⁓ six, seven, you know, I hope you publish this soon because otherwise that will not make any sense later. Brynne Erickson (45:07) Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Kolette Hall (45:29) you know, I'll just send them little things and we'll send each other stuff out. Like I have to count that as in communication. And so I think lots of times we have this expectation, like they should be behaving a certain way. Yeah, to be a good mom, then it should look like this. And it's like, what if it, what if it doesn't? And so what I really want to have happen is that I feel connected to him. And if possible, he feels connected to me. Brynne Erickson (45:34) Mm-hmm, I love that. It looks this way. Kolette Hall (45:57) I can't force him, but I'd like to try, then all right, what's a good way to make that happen? Brynne Erickson (46:04) and find evidence for it. Kolette Hall (46:05) And there's like a million ways. And so then when we get on Instagram or we read the, or we listen to the podcast and it's like, do it this way. It's like, maybe, but that's one of the million ways. Brynne Erickson (46:14) Right. Kolette Hall (46:20) So then you just ask yourself, am I creating what I want to have happen? And I'll do that like after a conversation. Okay, did I create what I wanted to have happen? Dang it, I kind of reacted when I really wanted to listen more. Okay, next time I'm gonna like shut my mouth and I'm gonna do something to make myself remember to shut my mouth. So yeah, that's... Brynne Erickson (46:34) Reflecting, So good. Kolette Hall (46:49) That's how we go, that's how we do ⁓ this plan with a purpose or the clarity framework. We ask, what do I value? What's important to me? And then the golden question of what do I want to have happen? And the way that we figure that out is the result or the outcome that we want. So what do I want to be thinking, feeling, doing or learning and becoming? Okay. And then what's a good way to make that happen? And am I creating it? Am I, am I doing what I want to be doing? Because lots of times we'll head down a path with, with a plan and it won't be creating what we want to have happen. And then we have like, we don't even realize it until we sort of pause and we're like, wait, this isn't even what I want. But it's what everybody else thinks I should do, or it's what the tradition is, or it's what somebody else told me I should do, or it's what we thought would work. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Brynne Erickson (47:45) Yes. Kolette Hall (47:52) This isn't really creating what we want. Let's reroute. Or like, yes, we did it. We nailed it. That was amazing. Brynne Erickson (47:57) Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've thought I've used this a lot. It's been very eye opening, especially with my body image and my weight and always in that mindset of like, I need to be smaller. Like I'm supposed to be back to my pre-marriage or like when I was married weight. And I was just constantly chasing that forever until finally just a few years ago when I Kolette Hall (48:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (48:33) became aware of my thoughts using this system, this structure. I was like, oh wait, do I actually have to constantly be trying to get back to 130 pounds? Huh. And I challenged that thought and it's been a journey for sure. And even with my journey of religion and faith. and asking questions like, why do we do what we do? What is the purpose behind this? Do I agree with that? What could this look like? Is there another way that I could be fulfilling this purpose? And then that's been really helpful for me. Do you have any thoughts about that? Kolette Hall (49:26) Yeah, I do. mean, I've had my own faith journey and I think a lot of us do have our faith journeys. And I think that these questions are really helpful to ask so that it can provide some clarity of what we actually want when it comes to religion and faith and connection to a higher power and all of that, instead of trying to guess what will feel better. or something doesn't feel quite right. And so then we're not quite sure what to do with that. Can provide some help in that process. And so when I first started wondering and questioning more, I've always been someone that's like, hmm, I'm not sure if that's really how it works. I'm not sure if that's really how, you know, that story went down and things like that. But I, but I'm Brynne Erickson (49:59) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kolette Hall (50:23) in, I'm a believer, you know, I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe in, ⁓ I've always believed in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and, but then as I started kind of wondering and things started getting a little bit murky, I decided that what I wanted to have happen was I wanted to be in it. I had an experience where It kind of like rocked my world. kind of frightened me, I'll be honest, because it's like, okay, everything that I've believed up until this point, all of a sudden I'm not quite sure. And it scared me in the sense of like insecurity. Something I was secure in, suddenly I wasn't so secure in it and it felt like, my gosh, what is happening to me? I'm kind of freaking out about this. And I had an experience when I was journaling one day and the message that just came through very, very clearly to me was that I believe from God was keep going. This is necessary. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna just try to keep going and keep working through these different ideas and beliefs and doctrines and things like that and try to figure out what do I believe. But something interesting that happened was I found myself getting three main emotions, all right? So I'm glad that this conversation has gone this direction because the three emotions that I was experiencing a lot were Fear? anger and judgment. Brynne Erickson (52:12) Yep, same. Kolette Hall (52:14) So not everybody experiences that, but those were the things that I was experiencing. So fear of ⁓ not getting it right kind of a thing. And then anger that things weren't right. I a lot of anger about different things. And then judgment, which usually showed itself in the idea of like me judging others. Like they shouldn't. Brynne Erickson (52:16) Yeah. Yes, yeah, lots of anger. Me too, yeah. Kolette Hall (52:42) think that way or it shouldn't be like that and I have a better idea or I'm right and so I made a decision what I wanted to have happen is I was not going to act or behave or do something from fear anger or judgment. Brynne Erickson (52:48) I'm right, yeah. Kolette Hall (53:07) So that was what I wanted to have happen, is that I'm not going to speak from fear, anger, or judgment. I was not going to respond. I was not going to act. And it was difficult. But I wrote it down on a piece of paper, like here on my desk, and I was like, no fear, anger, or judgment. I'm not acting from fear, anger, and judgment. And I had to practice that a lot. Brynne Erickson (53:09) Yeah. Mm-hmm. awesome. Mm-hmm. I still am. Kolette Hall (53:35) Yeah, and I managed my mind about it and I, you know, regulated my emotions, my nervous system about it. And eventually I got to the point where instead of just trying to not feel something that, you know, created actions, it could actually feel other emotions and act from them. So instead of like, I'm just. Brynne Erickson (53:53) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (54:03) not going to act from fear, anger and judgment. It gradually got good enough at it that then I said, okay, what I want to have happen is I want to act from calm. curiousness and compassion. So how do I get myself in a state of calm or being curious or compassionate or all three? Brynne Erickson (54:28) Yeah. Kolette Hall (54:37) And so to me that was growth because I, instead of just trying to like avoid doing something, I was actually becoming a calm, curious, compassionate person. Like what would I say? Brynne Erickson (54:40) Yeah. bright. Hmm. At what point did you realize you were ready for that transition though? Kolette Hall (55:16) I think for one part of it is I got really sick of just trying to manage fear, anger, and judgment. Like I'm tired of experiencing life with fear, anger and judgment and having to manage that. It feels like a very low vibrational frequency for me to be in. And I kind of got sick of it. Like, come on. I don't, I'm sick, I'm sick of this. I'm sick of being in fear. I'm sick of being angry and having to try to manage it. I'm sick of being judgmental and trying to manage it. What if I chose? other things to feel. What if I became something different? And so I kind of wrestled with like, hmm, I wonder what I could be that wasn't that. So I don't think it was like a turn on a dime kind of thing, where flipping a switch. But I was like, what do I actually want? Brynne Erickson (56:39) That's awesome, yeah. for sure. Kolette Hall (56:52) Instead of what am I just trying to avoid? What do I actually want? Well, I would love to feel calm. Brynne Erickson (56:55) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (57:03) I would love to feel curious, because that seems like the opposite of judgmental to me. I would love to feel compassionate. Brynne Erickson (57:10) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (57:16) Okay, let's do stuff to try to feel that. How do I create? Brynne Erickson (57:20) Yeah, how do we create that? Kolette Hall (57:25) So what I wanted to have happen changed. And that's what I think it does. It does change as we learn more and we understand the situation differently than it's like, ⁓ I thought that I wanted this, but actually I want this so much better. Okay, how do I create that? Brynne Erickson (57:53) And I think so many people don't even realize that there's another way. Like they just think that the way their life is, is how it is. And maybe in certain ways we think, ⁓ I'm going to change my job or I'm going to like, especially with relationships and connection, it's like, this is just how that relationship is. And it's always going to be this way. And then when you actually ask yourself, But does it have to be? Could this look different? At least for me, even if nothing about them changes. And I think that's where the magic really happens is when you just ask, how do I really want this to be for me in my life? In any situation, any circumstance, how do I actually want to feel about this? Because we don't have to stay stuck with the constant feelings of anger towards a situation or towards someone or fear. or judgment, like we really can work on changing that at any time. And I know for me, I think finding evidences of that change has been very helpful and also involving a higher power. And I was curious ⁓ what role a higher power has played for you in this process as well. Kolette Hall (59:29) Yeah, I think God likes to tell us the answers of and help us co-create what we really want. I think it's a team effort. you know, lots of people will say, well, that's God's plan for me. I think we co-create the plan. That makes a lot more sense to me that we're in it together. And I just don't necessarily have the perspective. Brynne Erickson (59:46) you Kolette Hall (59:58) and the understanding that God has. But I think we're meant to be creating together. And so when I think about what do I want to have happen, I let God help me create that, create the plan, create what I actually want, help me get clear on what I actually want. I use God. Brynne Erickson (1:00:00) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:00:28) in lots of different ways. I kind of like a variety of ways because I like to try new things and keep it fresh. And other people might want the same strategy for years and years. But one of the most recent things that I really enjoy doing is I like to write a letter to God. So it can just be like in a Word document. I type a lot faster than I write these days. And so it's easier for me if I just type it really fast or you can speak it on your phone or something like that in a note. it's just like kind of, this is what's going on and this is what I'm trying to decide. And this is what I'm trying to figure out. Can you help me? I'm thinking this. I'm not quite sure. You know, and I just, I just sort of start the conversation and, and say, what do you think? You know, and this is what I'm struggling with, or this is what's really hard for me. And I can't seem to get over it or whatever, whatever is going on. I'm really confused or I'm frustrated or I'm feeling alone or ⁓ I'm feeling really sad. I'm heartbroken. I'm not sure what to do, but I want to try to do the right thing. whatever, whatever the thing is, I just like spill it. Right? And then I let God write a letter back to me. Brynne Erickson (1:02:00) Do you receive it in that moment? Kolette Hall (1:02:01) Yeah, I just kind of take some breaths and just. Tune in. And some people might think that's not really God or you don't really know. Those are just your thoughts and I actually don't care. Brynne Erickson (1:02:20) I am President Nelson in a talk once, ⁓ asked us like what God thinks about us. And I don't know if it was like an, I think it was like an invitation to like find out what God thinks about you. And I did, I did kind of the same thing, but I did it in prayer. And I just sat and with a pen and paper, just any, Kolette Hall (1:02:31) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (1:02:46) little thoughts that came to my mind I wrote them down. I'm gonna get emotional about it. and It felt... I guess it did feel like a love letter. from my heavenly parents and I think that was kind of cool because whether it was or it wasn't, I get to decide. So for me, I decided that that was a moment of connection and feeling seen and loved and understood. from my heavenly parents. And I keep it up for me. They're just very simple things, which I love even more. Like it wasn't anything profound or crazy or mind-blowing. They were just very simple beautiful truths that made sense to me. And I think that God does speak in ways that make sense to us and also honors our own desires. And that has been... a really cool thing to better understand. Kolette Hall (1:04:06) Yeah, so you might want to do that more often. It's helpful. Brynne Erickson (1:04:15) Yeah, it was that one time, I just haven't thought to do it again, but yeah. Kolette Hall (1:04:19) Yeah, it's helpful and I've done it now many, many times. Many, many times. And ⁓ I have a belief. One of the things that I value is personal revelation. I believe very deeply in it. I use it every day. And so ⁓ I know that I live in the path of revelation. Brynne Erickson (1:04:41) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:04:50) and I believe all of us do. And the things that I do help me just recognize the powers of heaven. And Jason is now part of the powers of heaven to me. He's an angel to me and ⁓ helps me. And so whether it is our heavenly parents who I call God, if it's Jesus Christ, if it's the Holy Ghost, if it's angels that we know their names or we don't know their names. I think they all have the same purpose and they all, and so I just, I just don't worry too much about separating them out necessarily of like, this one has this role and this one has, don't care. It's like, they're all for my good. They're all helping me. So whatever it is, it's fine. It's all good. But the message is always the same. Brynne Erickson (1:05:36) Yeah. Kolette Hall (1:05:48) Maybe not the same words, but it's exactly what you are saying. It's things like, we love you. You are doing really well. Keep going. Yeah. Brynne Erickson (1:06:08) Those are like the exact same things I heard too. Kolette Hall (1:06:10) Right, because that's always the message. some form of it. And there might be something specific of like, yeah, you're on the right track. Don't give up. We're here. I'm here. You're doing well. We love you. Like that's the message. And so because I believe that I live in the path of revelation, whenever I'm thinking about what do I want to have happen, I just assume that God is in it with me. and that seems really helpful. Brynne Erickson (1:07:08) Yeah, I think so too. Kolette Hall (1:07:10) And it doesn't mean that I always choose exactly the right thing and I always behave exactly the right way and I predict the future and I can tell you like what stocks to buy. it doesn't mean any of those things. I just believe that each of us are like God and Jesus Christ, the angels, like they're right here. They care right now. Brynne Erickson (1:07:21) What? Kolette Hall (1:07:40) They're in it. They're in it with us. And so as we just give that idea a try, they're right here. Brynne Erickson (1:07:53) I call them my heavenly help. Cause I came to a point and I was like, I don't really know who I'm praying to. Like, I believe this. I believe that there's Jesus and the Holy Ghost and heavenly parents and all of the people on my team, people like you said, that I know and don't know, named and unnamed. And I was like, I don't want to address all of these people every time. And so I just kind of started using the term like, okay, heavenly help. Kolette Hall (1:07:55) Yeah. Brynne Erickson (1:08:23) And that has just been really helpful to me. And I love it because it's, yeah, it's just worked for me as a person who believes that there's a team out there supporting me, helping me. And... Kolette Hall (1:08:39) Yeah, and whatever anybody believes, they think that it's light or source or universe or they just only want to talk to Heavenly Father or they only want to talk to Jesus Christ, like, None of that matters. I think the connection is what matters is in believing that there is something that can help us and is like in it with us. Brynne Erickson (1:08:43) Absolutely. Yes. Mm-hmm, me too. Yeah. Kolette Hall (1:09:09) And so ⁓ those are just some practices that I do to try to ⁓ work through this, you know, this clarity framework is so interesting because there's a lot of ways to implement it. There's a lot of ways to use it. And all these ways, like I'm not saying go write a letter to God and then have God write a letter to you as like the way. It is one of the million ways. Brynne Erickson (1:09:44) to help create what you want. Kolette Hall (1:09:45) to live in the path of revelation, to find some hope, to get some help with figuring out what you actually want, what your purpose is, who you are as a human, as a child of the divine, as divine divinity within you already. It's just a way to make that happen. Brynne Erickson (1:09:48) Mm. Kolette Hall (1:10:13) But I promise you there's a million other ways. That's just kind of an interesting one that I've been playing with that has been connecting me. And so what do I want to have happen? want to be extremely connected to a higher power. And what's a good way to make it happen? To believe that I live in the path of revelation. To believe that God is helping me figure out what I want to be creating and ways to do it. Brynne Erickson (1:10:47) Yeah, and I've even thought like even if you don't believe in a higher power, like your values are really helpful still because it's what it's how I want to show up in this world. So even though I'm not accountable to a source, I'm still accountable to the person that I want to be and how I want to be here in this existence and create my life, which is obviously enveloped by people around me. I can't avoid that. So that's what I've really loved about this framework too, is that first piece is identifying what matters to you and what guides you and the kind of person that you wanna be. Kolette Hall (1:11:27) Exactly. Yeah, you nailed it. That's exactly it. Brynne Erickson (1:11:33) So another question I thought of, ⁓ I thought about like the term like, who does God want me to be? What is my purpose here? I don't wanna mess it up. I wanna make sure I'm becoming who God wants me to become. Which to me now seems kinda counterintuitive to like, well, who do I want to become? and what is the life I want to live? ⁓ But I do believe God is involved, like you said, but I don't necessarily believe that there's this person that I'm trying to achieve that he already, he or they already has for me to become. What are your thoughts about that? Kolette Hall (1:12:29) Good question. I believe we already are that. And we're in the process of remembering. Brynne Erickson (1:12:39) Hmm, that's a new take. But I like it. Kolette Hall (1:12:45) Well, I mean, we have a soul that is divine. If that soul really is. Brynne Erickson (1:12:47) Right? Kolette Hall (1:12:55) of divinity. then me, it makes more sense to think about remembering who we are as divine beings. And I think we get hints of that, like, yeah, this feels... Brynne Erickson (1:13:07) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:13:22) Good, this feels right. I'm meant to, I don't know, like I think about your mom who does a lot of philanthropy and stuff and works with people in a lot of different religions and no religion. And they'll say things like, feel called to do this, you know, to help with this thing. And I think we've all experienced that even if it's Brynne Erickson (1:13:23) Mm-hmm. bright. Kolette Hall (1:13:51) If it's we're on Instagram and we see some GoFundMe account that, you know, you don't even know the person, but they have some sort of thing going on. And you're like, wow, I want to give $20 to that. To me, that's our divinity speaking. Brynne Erickson (1:14:10) Hmm. Kolette Hall (1:14:13) Like, remember? You're a god. You're a goddess. Remember? And so then we're, then we're, you know, we have lots of influences around us that where we forget, we forget, we're constantly like trying to, trying to remember who we actually are. And then if you started getting into like quantum physics and time and how it's, you know, time is existing all at once and it's not really linear, like, you know, what if we already are? Brynne Erickson (1:14:31) Yeah. you Kolette Hall (1:14:56) And so I just like thinking about myself that way. And one of my mentors is Thomas McConkey and he talks a lot about this idea of viewing ourselves as whole. And then we have this misconception where we think, well, if I already think I'm whole, then I don't have any motivation to improve or to keep growing or to move forward in any way. And his contention is that we actually have more motivation when we believe that we are whole or in this case, I would believe I'm already divine and I'm just remembering that divinity versus I'm not there. I'm lacking. I'm missing something. And what Thomas says is, We can't hate ourselves forward. And that usually rings true with people when they hear that. that's how we live our lives lots of times is we think we have to think we're less than in order to fill the gap in order to become better. And, and what in my experience, since I've put this to the test, this is usually what happens. I, kind of start thinking about something and I'm like, well, I'm just going to test it and see what happens in my life. I try it. Brynne Erickson (1:16:15) Yep. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:16:31) And so this principle of like, what if I believe I'm already divine and I'm just remembering who I already am? What kind of life do I live when I look at my life that way, when I look at myself that way, and I find that I live a better life. I'm actually more generous. I'm more kind. I'm more hopeful. I'm more patient. I'm more happy. Brynne Erickson (1:17:12) Yeah. Kolette Hall (1:17:14) I believe in myself more because I understand who I already am. And so it's kind of this weird paradox that maybe, I don't know, maybe there's people out there in the audience who are just like their brains are breaking right now. Like, no, she is, she does not know what she's talking about, but I don't know, try it. Brynne Erickson (1:17:24) Yeah. You Kolette Hall (1:17:40) Try sincerely believing, like in deep, in your bones, that you are already divine. And then who are you as a divine being? What is your conversations? What do they sound like? What do your actions look like? When you believe I am a divine being. I'm not trying to get somewhere. I'm not trying to check boxes. I'm not trying to earn something. What does my life look like? Brynne Erickson (1:18:31) powerful. Kolette Hall (1:18:37) So those are the kinds of things that I want to have happen. I want to believe I am divine. I want to live from that belief. Brynne Erickson (1:18:39) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:18:52) Sometimes I don't get it right, but that's still what I want. That's still what I'm trying to do. Brynne Erickson (1:19:06) But if we never ask ourselves, yeah, how do I want to think? How do I want to feel? How do I want to become? What do I want to have happen? You never get to draw those conclusions. and you're never living your life intentionally. I'm creating. That's true. Good point. Kolette Hall (1:19:26) I mean, you might be. think a lot of this stuff happens. Yeah, and so I don't think ⁓ it's an all or nothing or whatever. I think for sure it happens. And you live intentionally even if you're not asking these exact questions and whatever. And I think your audience does too. ⁓ Brynne Erickson (1:19:35) For sure. Good point. Yeah. Kolette Hall (1:19:48) It's like a leveling up. We're just, we're just leveling it up. Brynne Erickson (1:19:50) There you go. Kolette Hall (1:19:55) and saying, okay, I'm gonna like take radical responsibility. for what I'm creating in this life and what I'm experiencing. And I promise you, Jason and I, we have had some extremely challenging harrowing things. And it doesn't mean that everything is easy and that we're brushing things under the rug and we're saying, oh no, this is great. And I love challenges and hardships and, you know, this isn't a Pollyanna attitude. Brynne Erickson (1:20:27) Yeah. Kolette Hall (1:20:32) That's not what we're talking about. But when we are in the challenges, who are we? How are we behaving? What are we saying? What are we thinking? And so we can think, yeah, this is really hard. and God is with me and at some point it's gonna get easier. Like it's important to feel the sorrow, the sadness, the heartbreak, the discouragement, the irritation. It's important to feel those things. Brynne Erickson (1:21:24) things can be true. Kolette Hall (1:21:25) Mm-hmm. And then we say, now what? Brynne Erickson (1:21:29) Mm-hmm. Kolette Hall (1:21:31) Now what? Brynne Erickson (1:21:54) Well, as per usual, Coe, you've blown my mind. So, so good. Kolette Hall (1:22:02) Happy to help. I like blowing my own mind too. Brynne Erickson (1:22:11) Yeah, me too. It's fun. Yeah, it is fun. that, and I think a lot of it is that personal revelation for me. Like those are my most mind blowing moments is like, ⁓ kind like an aha moment where I get, I'm reflecting or I'm planning and a thought comes to mind or I look at my progress or where I'm at and I'm like, Whoa, this is so cool. This is amazing. Look where I am. Look where I've been. Look what I've overcome, look who I'm becoming, look at the good I'm doing. Man, I really messed up there, but I learned a lot. you know, all of the whole purpose of this experience. Feeling it all, allowing the thoughts, the feelings, learning from them, changing, becoming. It's pretty amazing. Kolette Hall (1:23:09) Yeah, I agree. Brynne Erickson (1:23:12) So, yeah. Kolette Hall (1:23:12) So President Nelson, before he became the prophet, he gave the talk about the Sabbath day. I can't even remember the year that he did this, but it was the last talk of that conference. And at the beginning of that talk, he just references the rest of the conference. It's like before he started talking about the Sabbath, then he gave this little You know, like it's been a good conference, you know, that kind of little thing. But he said something that I have had on my fridge since then. A quote and it says, because of what you have heard and felt. Brynne Erickson (1:23:43) Yeah, yeah Kolette Hall (1:24:03) How will you change? And so that's what I think we're meant to be doing because of what I hear and feel. How will I change? And that could mean I have to say I'm sorry. That could mean I have to set something right. That could mean I have to live with the consequences. but it's still moving toward the thing that we're supposed to be doing, which is changing. And I find that really powerful and hopeful that like, yeah, give yourselves a chance to just change, change a thought, change a behavior. peel something. And I feel like when we understand the outcome that we want, it makes the path for change a lot clearer. and often easier because like that's where I'm headed. That's what trying to create. Okay, then I'm going to I'm going to make these changes in order to do that. And it could be as simple as changing a thought. I think that's a significant part of the atonement as anything else. I actually think it's more. Brynne Erickson (1:25:44) change. Kolette Hall (1:25:45) changing a thought, changing a feeling, handing it over to the Savior. Help me heal this. I don't want to believe this anymore about myself. I don't want to think that anymore about that person. That to me is the Atoma in action. Brynne Erickson (1:26:20) Yep. It's much bigger and more encompassing than I originally thought. You really can use it for any facet of life that you want to simply change. It's pretty awesome. Kolette Hall (1:26:40) Yeah, divine things usually are bigger than what we imagine. Brynne Erickson (1:26:43) ⁓ And they're simple, I'm learning. They're not complicated. They're pretty simple. Kolette Hall (1:26:50) Simple, more expansive, more all-encompassing, more abundant, more mind-blowing. We even imagine. Yeah, I think God likes working in. Brynne Erickson (1:26:56) Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Kolette Hall (1:27:09) the abundant. Brynne Erickson (1:27:13) Yeah, that word has come to my mind a couple of times throughout this conversation. Well thanks, Coze, or anything you want to end with. Kolette Hall (1:27:25) No, this has been amazing. I love it. can't wait to hear it back. Whatever you decide to put in. I do have a few books that if people are interested, then they can check out. I wrote a book. Jason was actually working on a book when he died and I did that project and added my own things to it. So that's on Amazon. It's called messy victories and it's under both mine and Jason's name. And then I Brynne Erickson (1:27:29) You Kolette Hall (1:27:55) I wrote two other books about this framework that we talked about today. One's called The Infallible Choice and the other is about youth leadership in the church. I'm a self-proclaimed kind of specialist at training youth to be leaders in the church, self-proclaimed, and I wrote a book about it. And it's called The Let Them Lead Handbook and all of those are available on Amazon. Brynne Erickson (1:28:19) Yeah. They're all awesome and very simple short reads and great books to have. I have loved them, especially in my calling, working with the young women, the girls in the ward. It's been really helpful as we're making decisions on activities and camps and how we're going to reach out to the others. It's like, love how big, okay, what's the purpose? What do we want to have happen? Kolette Hall (1:28:52) Mm-hmm. Brynne Erickson (1:28:55) What's our outcome? What do we want to think? What do we want to feel? It's been so helpful. So thank you for sharing that with the world and with us tonight. I really appreciate it. Kolette Hall (1:29:05) Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. I love you. Brynne Erickson (1:29:07) I love you too. Thanks, Co.