Latest / The Divorce Decision Podcast / Ep. 58: Stage 1- The Moment You Can't Pretend Anymore

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Ep. 58: Stage 1- The Moment You Can't Pretend Anymore · The Divorce Decision Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Divorce Decision Podcast, the show for couples asking the most painful question in marriage.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Should we stay or should we go?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: If your marriage feels heavy, confusing, or painfully uncertain, you're not alone.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're leaning towards divorce or hoping to rebuild your marriage, my desire is to help you find clarity.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Carrie Hoskins.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get started.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Divorce Decision podcast.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Carrie Hoskins, and today we are diving a little bit deeper into a six-part series on the stages of the divorce decision.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now I compare the stages of the divorce decision to a roadmap, a map of where you are likely at if you are the unhappy spouse, if you are questioning your marriage, contemplating divorce.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have to say that if you're in the beginning stages one through three, you are not usually questioning divorce yet.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: That usually comes in stages four and five, and then ultimately six.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: But being able to understand where you're at can be really helpful for a lot of people.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I would suggest if you did not listen to last week's episode, that you go back and listen to that because I talked to you about why understanding where you're at can help you make a more confident and clear decision.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So many people I talk to do not actually know where they are.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: They just know that they're somewhere super uncomfortable and they don't necessarily have language for it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one of the reasons why I think that this is so helpful.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So today we're talking about stage one.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I call stage one a knowing.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about what stage one is, why staying silent is the biggest risk of this stage.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna give you a few questions that I really think are worth your time to sit with if you have been quietly wondering whether what you're feeling is actually a problem or not.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now a lot of you listening are past stage one.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what I would suggest doing if you are past stage one is to really listen to this episode and try to go back in your mind and remember when stage one happened for you and really kind of what was the trigger or the turning point that took you from basic unhappiness and brought you into this first stage.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what is stage one anyway?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, stage one is what I consider the quiet stage.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is the one that nobody sees, and sometimes including even yourself if you're the person going through it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what's typically happening, okay, in stage one is you've got all of these unresolved issues in your marriage.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now I call these open loops.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that I teach my clients when we work together, and let me just explain what I mean really, really quick.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really helpful for a lot of people.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it really is the foundation of everything else in this series.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So every marriage, even the good ones, especially the healthy ones, move through a natural cycle.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's harmony where you feel connected to each other, you feel good with each other, you feel okay about your marriage.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's something that happens and that brings you into disharmony.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a disagreement, hurt feelings, um, a missed bid for connection, the moment where maybe one of you feels unseen or disrespected or unhurt.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's normal.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Every couple has disharmony.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: The thing though that determines whether a marriage stays healthy or not is what isn't whether disharmony happens, because it happens in every relationship.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's whether the two of you know how to repair it.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that repair is the conversation that happens after the argument.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's the conversation that happens after the hurt feelings.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the conversation that happens after that missed bid for connection.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's the real apology.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the moment that one of you says, I see what happened and I care that it hurt you and I wanted to do something different.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now when that repair happens, that moment, the loop closes.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't keep costing you or your marriage anything.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't weigh on you.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's done.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I do want to give credit to uh, I would call him a famous, a famous psychotherapist, couples therapist, Terry Real.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: He is the one that really kind of came up with the concept of harmony, disharmony, and repair.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the one that took it a little bit one step further and decided to call it open loops because that's how my mind thinks about it and it tends to be helpful for a lot of people.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens with these open loops is when uh, you know, the issue doesn't get repaired, when the hurt gets brushed off because it wasn't worth the fight or the apology really never actually led to different behavior.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: That moment doesn't close, that disharmony stays open and it goes underground underneath your relationship and it sits there and it starts quietly shaping how you see each other, how you hear each other, how you interpret each other, and how much you're willing to be vulnerable and let your guard down.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for some of you out there, it's not like one dramatic event or thing that has happened to create that open loop.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's an accumulation, right?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the argument about, say, money that turned into silence or the vacation that got canceled because of your husband's work again, or the night you reached for connection, but your wife rejected you, or at least you think she rejected you and didn't reach back.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: None of those things on their own ends a marriage, but they were never actually resolved.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: You just carry it around with you, and it gets carried and carried and carried year after year after year.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And for some of you listening, it's not even that, it's not a pile of all these little small open loops.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's one big open loop.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's an affair, it's addiction, it's chronic dishonesty, it's betrayal that was never fully repaired.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so here's the thing about big open loops.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: They don't stay contained.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: An affair isn't just about an affair, it can become a loop about trust, a self-worth loop, a safety loop all at once.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So then you have all of these different points of unrepair, of disharmony that again is underneath the surface of your relationship.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why one unresolved issue can make an entire marriage feel unstable.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it doesn't just live in one category or one place in your marriage.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of like touches everything.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So either way, whether it's a lot of small loops or one big heavy open loop, the effect is still the same.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, this is actually the marker of stage one.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: That, and this is the key, you guys.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Your unhappiness stops feeling temporary.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It stops feeling temporary.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to think about the difference between, you know, we're going through a rough patch versus I don't think this is a rough patch anymore.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think this is getting better.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: That shift from temporary to not temporary, that's stage one.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you are wondering, are we just going through a rough patch?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something more?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I would really encourage you to go back and listen to episode 53 because I go through several different characteristics and how to tell the difference between a rough patch and something more than that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I would definitely give that a listen if you haven't done so already.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So in this stage, in stage one, unknowing, you're not yet thinking about divorce.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Most people in this stage would actually be offended if you asked them if they were considering leaving.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: They're just tired.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're lonely.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're sad in a way that they can't explain anymore.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to share with you kind of a version of a conversation that I've probably had a hundred times.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you probably have your own version of this at some point if you're listening to this podcast.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I worked with a woman, and I'm just gonna call her Sarah, that's not her real name.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: She would like go pick up the kids from practice or from school or whatever, and she'd let them go in the house, and then she would go run an errand, and then she'd come back because her kids were a little bit older, and she would sit in the car for like five, 10, 15 minutes every single time she got back before she walked inside the house.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Her husband's truck would be in the garage.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was annoyed because she had to pick up the kids again because he wasn't going to be making it on time again, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So she would sit there and she wasn't thinking, I want a divorce.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: She would think, I used to be excited to walk through that door.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then she'd reflect on, you know, a few years earlier when they would text each other like these stupid little things, you know, in like memes and stuff like that in the middle of the day, and send each other Instagram funny reels in the middle of the day.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she could not remember the last time that that had happened.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she got to the point where she was doing this every single day, and she was just like wondering, is this what marriage is after 15 years or is this actually a problem?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this became her new normal for an entire year.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: This was her routine, okay, until she finally transitioned into stage two.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that is stage one.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is not a decision, it is not even public.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's an ache that you now have a name for.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to share with you a husband's perspective.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it might look like a former client, I'm gonna again make up his name, I'm gonna call him David.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there was a moment that he so distinctly remembers sitting at his daughter's dance recital.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: She was in elementary school, you know how cute kids are at dance recitals at that, at that age.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he'd shown up at the dance recital late, and his wife did not save him a seat.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he found a seat in the same row or whatever, but a few seats down from her.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was just like watching her.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: He was watching her laugh with the people, with her friends that were sitting her around her, and some of the family was there, and she was, he was watching her interact with them.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he could not remember the last time that she had genuinely smiled at him.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: She could not, he could not remember the last time that she had genuinely laughed with him.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he sat there thinking about that the entire dance recital.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, when everyone clapped, he clapped, and they both got in their own separate cars, and he just drove home in silence, lost in his thoughts.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing that night actually happened, right?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing was wrong that he could point to or write down on a piece of paper.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: But something in him quietly stopped explaining it away, and he finally acknowledged to himself how empty he felt inside.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: How empty and distance, or distant, I'm sorry, his marriage fell.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So those are two examples.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many more, and some of them are very dramatic.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: But to be honest with you, more times than not, I see the less dramatic ones.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ones very similar to the ones I just shared with you.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my question for you.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you had to summarize your own version of that story, what would you say?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is your version?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: What does that sound like?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like for you?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is something that you need to reflect on.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to share with you some signs that typically indicate that you are in this first stage, a knowing.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And let's just see if any of these land for you.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the signs is that you feel a quiet but persistent unhappiness that does not go away.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like not a bad day, not a bad week, not even a bad month.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just a low hum underneath everything, even the good moments.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Very similar to, you know, David who was sitting in that dance recital.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Another sign is that you catch yourself thinking, this isn't what I thought our marriage would be.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it comes up during someone else's anniversary post on Instagram, or maybe it's watching your parents or another couple that you know, and you feel like this pang that you can't really quite put your finger on.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: You really can't quite name it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Another sign is that you feel lonely even when your spouse is in the room with you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're sitting on the same couch watching this same show, and you have never felt more alone in your life.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Another sign is that you're not ready to leave, but you're no longer able to pretend like you're okay.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone asks you, how's it going?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you in, you know, whatever your spouse's name is?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: How is married life?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: At a barbecue or at a birthday party, and you give a normal answer, but something inside of you flinches, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know that you're not really being truthful.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Another sign is that you feel sad, let down, or angry, and you don't always know which one it is, and you don't always know why.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just how you're feeling a lot.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Another sign is that you are comparing your marriage now to what you hoped it would be or what it used to be, okay?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not to some like Pinterest fantasy or Instagram real fantasy, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just the version that you actually believed that you were building together.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So even if one or two of these are true for you right now, you are very likely sitting in stage one.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to share with you next what is actually happening underneath.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want you to understand is this, because I think it's really easy to dismiss what you're feeling.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to tell yourself that you're overreacting or being dramatic.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You are not.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening under stay underneath stage one is grief.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Real, honest, true grief.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Even though nothing has in air quotes ended yet.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you might be grieving the marriage you thought you had.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You might be grieving the version of your husband or your wife that you hoped they would grow into, the one who is going to prioritize date nights or finally go to therapy or stop drinking or really start listening.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, the hardest one, you might be grieving the version of yourself that existed before your marriage started asking so much of you and giving so little back.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one that a lot of people miss.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And underneath that grief, there is usually like a quiet interrogation running in the background of your mind, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Questions like, do I still love them?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Are they even capable of changing?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Am I asking too much?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Am I the problem here?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of these questions are really valid and good questions for you to be asking.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So stage one really is a big part of it, I guess you I should say, is about evidence gathering.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not building a legal case, you're building an emotional one, mostly for yourself, because you're not fully sure whether what you're feeling is a real problem, or that you're being too sensitive or too tired, or too asking for much, or sorry, or you're asking for too much.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So before you'd ever even say anything out loud, some part of you needs to quietly prove it to yourself first.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is really important part to really consider is are you building an emotional case against your husband or against your wife?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is really important information for you to know.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be honest with you about the danger of this stage because it is very real, and I've watched it play out over and over and over again.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest risk of stage one is staying silent for too long.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's what happened.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: The pain that's carried around alone with you does not stay the same size.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: That pain grows.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So think about how long you've actually been sitting with us.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's been one year or two years of quietly not saying anything because you didn't want to start a fight.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or because the one time you hinted at it or brought it up, you were told you were overreacting.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so you stay quiet instead.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you put your energy into work, or the kids, or the gym, or anything that's not the conversation.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And from the outside, everything might even look okay.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: To your friends, things might look fine.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: To your family, things might look fine.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens is one, two, three years of carrying it around alone is not the same as one, two, or three years of a marriage that's actually had a chance to address and deal with what's wrong.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time you finally say something, if you say something, you may already be so far down that road emotionally that your spouse feels completely blindsided.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they may ask, like, why didn't you tell me it was this bad?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or they may not even believe you, because this is the first time that you've brought it up.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And your honest answer might be because you didn't even fully know how bad it was either until you finally said it out loud.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And really how people deal with what, you know, stage one into stage two kind of differs, you know, depending on your, depending on a lot of things, but basically depending on your relationship, your past experiences, uh the way that you're wired, your communication style, all of that kind of stuff.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But this is why stage one does not stay stage one forever.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, that private pain becomes too heavy to keep caring by yourself.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the shift into what I call truth telling, which is stage two, when you realize that your spouse actually needs to understand how serious this problem has become, even if you don't know what you want to do about it yet.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's next week.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Next week is all about um stage two.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, today is really about uh naming where you're at.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what I want to do as we close here is I want to give you some questions to sit with.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I am not gonna give you this five-step plan, okay, because stage one isn't about fixing anything yet.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about getting honest with yourself first, quietly, before you say anything to anyone.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here are three questions that I actually do really encourage you to sit with, think about, reflect on.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I would even say, write down your answers to these questions somewhere in private.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so here are the three questions.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, what am I finally willing to admit to myself about this marriage that I've been trying not to say out loud?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, what have I been pretending is okay but doesn't actually feel okay anymore?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And question three is what have I been minimizing, excusing, or tolerating, and for how long?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now you don't need to answer those three those three questions right now, but you need to let those questions into your mind and start ruminating on them.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So before we go, if there was any part of this episode that really felt familiar, that resonated with you, if you recognize yourself in Sarah's shoes, sitting in your driveway, right, like bracing yourself to go in the door, or if you know, you can really identify with the dad at the recital and his wife didn't save the seat for him, um, and he felt just so distant from his wife, or in that quiet hum of unhappiness that does not go away.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to know that noticing it doesn't mean that anything has to be done.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: It just means that you're becoming more aware and you're paying attention.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you guys, this is exactly why I created the should we get a divorce quiz.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is a free tool that helps you figure out what stage you're in with a little bit more clarity.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it tells you which of the six stages you're actually in right now because you might be further along in this process than you think you are, or you might not be as far along as you're afraid of.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: But either way, knowing where you are is really the first step toward doing something about it instead of just carrying it around alone.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So please go take the quiz.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go ahead and put the link to the quiz in the show notes.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can also find that quiz at kahoskins.com.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in the next episode, we're going to move into stage two, which again I call truth telling.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's the moment that your private pain becomes something that you can no longer keep to yourself.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friends, I will see you there.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am Carrie Hoskins, and this is the Divorce Decision Podcast.