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The Muppets Take Scripthattan - Janet Varney & Griffin Newman · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

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Earlier this year, audiences, both in person and virtual, bore
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witness to two incredible events.
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The Muppet Script and The Scripted Muppet Caper
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star-studded live readings of The Muppet Movie and The Great
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Muppet Caper scripts. On Friday, October 24th, they'll
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be doing it again with The Muppets Take Script Hatton, this
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time in New York City. To celebrate this event and to
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encourage you to buy tickets to the live stream, we'll be
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chatting with some of the stars of the show in this special
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podcast miniseries brought to you by toughpigs.com.
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I'm your host, Joe Hennis. Joining me is the producer and
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director of the show and an old friend of Tough Pigs, it's Matt
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Wilkie. Hello, Matt.
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Hello Joe, Hello everyone. So happy to be back.
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Glad to have you here. And our first guest you may have
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seen on The Tick, heard on the Blank Check podcast and seen
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live in the George Lucas Talk show, a huge Muppet fan in his
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own right, it is Griffin Newman. Hey, Griff.
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Hello Joe, you forgot my major credit which is previous guest
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of the Tough Pigs podcast. You have been on this podcast.
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It was when we were like that very brief moment where we did
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video podcasts live for us in lockdown.
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I was going to say my memory was it was like week 3 of lockdown.
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It was when we still thought that it was just going to be a
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few weeks and we I believe that we started by saying we'll do
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these until we can all go back to normal.
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Yeah, right. In May.
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Yeah, we gave up pretty, pretty quickly on that one, yeah.
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That was a cabin fever, you called it?
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Right. Yes, Thank you, Matt.
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Yes. I love their title, I thought
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that was really fun. Thank you.
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That's on our YouTube page if you want to go find that.
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Before we talk about that, let's talk about our 2nd guest who you
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have seen on Stand Against Evil, The Jim Henson Company series,
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Neils Puppet Dreams, and as the titular Legend of Korra, it's
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Janet Varney. Hi, Janet.
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Hello, you forgot my most important credit first time
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guest on your podcast so. Important.
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Thank you. Thank you for being here on this
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podcast. I'm such a fan of all of you and
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I, I hope that you're fans of The Muppets, because that's what
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we're going to talk about for the next hour.
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Never heard of them. All right, so, OK, so there's
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this guy named Frank Oz. Let's start there.
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No, we we don't have time for this.
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OK, so so it. Started with Frank Oz.
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I got a choice. Should have gone, should have
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gone deeper. Should have gone deeper than
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Frank, so OK, so it. Starts in a cave.
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The first caveman sits around a fire.
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He holds his hand up and a strap that was created.
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I love where we're going with this, but first, well, actually,
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if we don't want to go back that far, let's go back first to the
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Muppet movie screen. Excuse me, script reading that
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you guys did. And so Griff, you played Max and
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Janet, you were Janice. Is that right?
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That's right. And I remember I did not know
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who was playing whom except for just a couple that I had heard
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about. And when I saw Griff and I was
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like, this is yeah, like, there's like, how could we
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couldn't have done there were just have not been to Max if
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Griffin hadn't been available. It was such great casting.
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It was such. Great casting seeing you.
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And I will say this is like ultimate compliment to, to Matt
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that I, everyone I saw there was like, oh, obviously, of course.
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But I, I, I'm New York based. I happen to, I was already going
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to be in LA when that first one was happening.
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And Matt texted me and I immediately was like, well, I'd
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want to play Max. And he was like, yeah, that's
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exactly what I was going to ask you.
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And I think some Muppet fans of my stature would be disappointed
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to not get to play one of The Muppets.
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But to me, I was like, this is destiny.
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I can't fight this. I I'm ready to like embody this
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fully. That character, that character
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is so important, too, because that's, yeah, a character that
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teaches kids about redemption, not to just go deep right away,
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but also, yeah, so sorry in advance, Joe, but you are.
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You have at least two podcast hosts on this podcast.
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So I think we all know that what's gonna happen is.
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Well, can I just take a break? Can I just?
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Just take over for a moment. Yeah, so sorry.
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I'm so sorry. No, but I just, I think that's,
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I have so much love for that character and I really do feel
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like he was such an instrumental part of me kind of understanding
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storytelling and understanding the idea of like feeling bad
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that you're on the wrong side of something and having the
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opportunity to right that wrong. Like, yeah, no, I agree with
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you, Jana. And I also think Charles Darning
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is so incredible in that movie. And part of what's so incredible
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is that he is funny, but he is legitimately fairly upsetting.
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And as a child, it was like even more so than kind of cartoonish
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Disney villains. He felt menacing in a very human
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way. A. 100.
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Percent that he's just like this monster of late stage populism,
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greed and everything, but he's able to charm and he's able to
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small talk whatever. And I, I think you're right that
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like it would be too upsetting for a child to watch that film
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if you weren't also able to track Max's moral awakening.
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And so I genuinely was like, this is a great part to play.
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I'm like excited to dig into this, but I, I was very, I try
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to be very detail oriented and putting the outfit together
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because I was like, well, it's not like Swedish Chef where you
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have these clear ear markers. And I asked Matt to help me with
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the hat and a tie and I put it on and then like, you saw me and
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we're like, Oh my God, you're Max.
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It was great to recognize that almost everyone else at the
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reading was so fanatical about the Muppet movie that they could
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identify I was Max based on what two other people would have just
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looked like street clothes. To be fair though, you you are
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like an Austin Pendleton Type A. 100%.
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You are giving Austin Pendleton. My friends have made that joke
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for years of like if they made them up a movie tomorrow you
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would read for that right? Like that, That is your your
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type casting. There was a moment where like I
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was posting stuff like the links on Reddit to make sure that
6:12
people knew about the show and it spread the word.
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And it was before, like, the cast list was out, but it wasn't
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who's playing who. And so many people are
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immediately like, well, obviously Griffin's playing Max.
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Like everybody was like, like, immediately.
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That was the only one there was no discussion over.
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It was like, who's Bobby playing?
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Who's Paul playing? It's like, no Griffin's playing
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Max and everybody else we'll figure out later.
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But the great thing was like, I see Janet backstage Janet in the
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Janice get get up. She's she's transforming.
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I'm like, Oh my God, this is perfect.
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And I know that Janet can act and sing and do voices with the
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best of them. And then yet the moment the
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curtain comes up, everyone's on stage, the audience is getting
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the overload of seeing, oh, my God, he's him.
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She's heard this is who everyone is.
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And yet every time someone got up to the mic for the first time
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and started doing the voice, there was such a pop of
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excitement from the audience of like, they're nailing it.
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And I think what's fascinating is that, like, Matt put together
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a group of people where some people are doing a really good
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impression, some people are doing their own personal
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interpretation, and some people are almost doing like a
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postmodern angle on it. And yet all of them were able to
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harmonize because you could tell the common thread was everyone
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knows and cares about this deeply.
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They're they're approaching it from different angles, but no
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one is like, what is this? Who is this character?
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Yeah. So, well, first of all, Griff,
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if you weren't going to play Max in that movie, or if any any of
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the Muppet movies, if you were going to play a Muppet, which
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one do you think you would have read for?
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I I think Scooter's my answer. I think Scooter is the most
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Austin penalty of of the felt characters.
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I I think there's I could I think I could pull off a Rizzo,
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but it's not my my type casting. If someone else dropped out, I
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think I could do it. I could amp up my my New York
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native your. Your Watto, which we'll talk
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about in a little bit. The Watto's Rizzo Y.
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Yeah, I can see that. I have, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a
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small man. I could visually work as Rizzo
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next to other performers. Yeah.
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I like wearing hats, right? Yeah.
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Yeah, big fan of cheese. Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Janet, did you choose the Janice
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role or did Matt ask you? No, Matt asked me.
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I just wrote him and said, hey, I hear you're doing this.
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Will you please find something for me to do?
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Were you hoping he was going to say Janice, or had you not even
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considered that when you sent? Me.
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No, no. The only thing I think I said to
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him was if, because I just assumed that everything was done
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already because I wasn't sure when I was finding out about it.
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And so I said if if the Steve Martin character is still
8:57
available, I would like to do that.
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That that's a good one. Who did play the Steve Martin?
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Character. We had Katie Maravich and.
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Katie Do. It and Speaking of like
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postmodern, she went nuts with. It yeah, you have to.
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You have to. You do.
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You do. You really do.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, I mean, Griffin and
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Janice. Janice.
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See, I can, I can mix up. It's is that why you did it?
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It's that idea. It's just I I was just
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misspeaking when I spoke to you. No, it was it was the kind of
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thing where like I'd already kind of started reaching out to
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the thrilling adventure. Our folks, who I'm huge fans of
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have been an adventure couture for years.
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And when when I got a little e-mail from little Janet Barney,
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as they call her, I was so excited and it was immediately
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like, no, that's Janice. Like that's there's so many
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people that I like. As soon as I spoke to them or in
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reaching out to them, I was like, this is like perfect
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casting in a way. And my, my wife and I, we love
10:03
doing like the casting game where we're like watching
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something and, and we're like, oh, what would they be in?
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And, and so often it does come to Muppets because that's just
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how my brain works. And so we were, we, we go back
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and forth where it's like if we're casting a show where we're
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replacing them with Muppets or vice versa.
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Anyway, Yeah. Fun game.
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This is a completely normal thing to most of us, by the way.
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Yeah, absolutely. This is what we do.
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Yeah, Yeah. So, so the casting of it all is,
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you know, as a producer, you really want to fine tune things.
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But that was honestly the easiest thing because I just had
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so many like through thrilling adventure hours, through drop
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out, through different podcasts that I listen to, I had in my
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mind already everyone who would be great in one of these Muppet
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roles. And luckily, I mean, like 99% of
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my first asks were yeses. And so it just became this
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beautiful thing that I'm like I, I say it's, it's hard to
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replicate, but we are doing more of them.
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So hopefully it's not that hard to replicate as we keep going.
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I will also not to pump you up, Matt, but I I don't know how
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much of this was just picking the right people creatively or
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if this was strategic on your part.
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But as you said, you pulled from a lot of like overlapping
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circles of thrilling Adventure Hour and kind of Comedy Bang
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Bang and Jason stuff and drop out stuff and everything.
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We're like, there were 40 people on stage.
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It felt like I didn't know everybody, but I knew enough
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people and anyone I didn't know, I was like 1° away from where it
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felt like for a thing like this, where it's not like you have a
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lot of time to rehearse as a group where everyone's getting
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there an hour before. Anyone who you hadn't performed
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with before, it was like, well, this is like a cousin 1° away.
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It was such a group that could gel so quickly together because
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we all come from, if not the same background, parallel
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backgrounds, you know, like had all these ties to each other.
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And you felt this real communal. Like Janet gets up and says the
12:06
first for surely and everyone like, we're applauding on stage.
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We're feeling exciting of like she's nailing it too, you know?
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Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing.
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Speaking of Janice's lines, so she doesn't speak very much in
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these movies. So like, is it, does it feel
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like a bit of AI don't know, like a, like a missed
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opportunity that you get to like come up on stage, say one thing
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and then you're sitting down for the next 45 minutes?
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Oh, for sure not because I could just say for sure God damn it,
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why am I? Why are these things getting
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teed up so cleanly that I'm not noticing that that is a no no?
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I mean, that's just not. Again, like I wanted to be a
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part of the show, even if I said literally one sentence and then
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just sat on stage enjoying everything that was happening
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for the rest of the time. Honestly, like it would be maybe
12:57
hard if Janice, I mean, she does have stuff to do in like all the
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subsequent movies as well. And it was so it's it's it was
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it's such a benefit that she's part of the band because I love
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singing and I love music and I love the Electric Mayhem.
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But also as as Matt knows and has he has fondly pointed out
13:19
since then I did I really tried not to open my eyes at all
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because the Janice puppet does not have open eyes.
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And so she she had to do more. That might have been a problem
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because it was already challenging to try to sell that
13:35
with the limited amount that she just.
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You also get to do all the singing too.
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Like you have exact balance of like absolutely.
13:40
No fun. There's obviously the tier of
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like the the Big 5 A list Muppets who are gonna have more
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story weight to cover in these types of things.
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But so many of I feel like the actual most beloved Muppet
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characters are these kind of like pinch hitter Janice comes
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in and just kills one line, you know, and so there it it really
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did feel like it was like kind of it was funny.
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I on stage, other people kept turning to me and saying like,
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is this in the actual movie? Like some people who are Muppet
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fans who don't rewatch the Muppet movie every single year,
14:17
We're kind of like, I can't believe the writing is this
14:20
good, that the jokes are this strong, but also that like every
14:23
part gets to score, you know, and it's like, so you know, and
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I, I love all the Muppet movies on a, on a scale, you know, but
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there is, there is a perfection to the Muppet movie in that like
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every single Muppet character scores in it and also every
14:40
human character scores. So no one's like, I got stuck
14:43
with the bad part. I got stuck dumping exposition.
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You know everyone has an emotional art to play or you're
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like Pilling saying myth 3 times or whatever.
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You know it's true. There's no fat to trim from
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these movies, especially these first 4 here, but well does.
15:01
I don't know if Janice has any lines in Muppet Christmas Carol,
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so if you guys end up doing that.
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Doesn't, so we gotta. You'll just have to sit on the
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stage, close your eyes. And just yeah.
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I could be, I could be asleep, I could just drift off and no one
15:18
would know. Right.
15:19
That's the job I want. Jeez.
15:21
Oh my gosh. I just want to make a quick
15:23
note. We, we talked about how like
15:25
every Muppet and every human, like they kind of have that
15:28
moment. And to be honest, that is the
15:31
biggest challenge for doing these live shows is because you
15:35
can have people like double up or triple up on rolls.
15:39
But there comes a point in like almost every Muppet movie where
15:43
there is a scene and you have to have 15 different Muppets
15:47
talking to each other and it's just, it gets nuts.
15:51
So, so like I, I never want to have people talking like this is
15:54
me now and then this is also me talk.
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Like I hate when that happens on live stage stuff because I feel
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like if we can and we're pushing the boundaries every time at
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Dynasty of how many people we can get onto that stage.
16:07
And we broke the record at Great Muppet Caper.
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They told me that it was, I think it was 29, and we got up
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two. Happiness would tell at full
16:15
capacity. Yep, exactly.
16:17
And so, so it's, it's funny to be like, I don't want to
16:22
overload the stage, but at the same time you have to sometimes
16:24
for Muppets. I'll say this too, I feel like
16:27
where you would double or triple up was mostly with the people
16:30
who were taking the like the human All Star cameo rolls, that
16:34
some of those would be like double or triple because those
16:37
are such specific pop insurance. But it was another thing seeing
16:42
the script printed out and performed outside of the movie
16:46
for the first time, where you pull the the juice of the
16:51
celebrity from those scenes. I want to say basically, other
16:56
than Edgar Bergen, every one of those just works as a comedy
17:00
bit, regardless of who's delivering it.
17:03
You know, like sometimes you get into later Muppet stuff where
17:06
it's like the joke is it's Whoopi Goldberg and the joke
17:10
falls apart if it isn't Whoopi Goldberg.
17:12
It it was that fascinating thing about watching the Steve Martin
17:15
scene, which I'm like, that's one of the funniest scenes in
17:17
the history of movies, delivered by like, who I think is maybe
17:21
the funniest person ever at his peak.
17:23
And you imagine, well, that's going to fall apart if it isn't
17:26
Steve Martin doing it. And you're like, no, they're
17:28
like actually 1000 different ways to play that scene that
17:32
work comedically. And so you can just have people
17:35
come up and play it in a totally off the hump way, but really
17:39
still find where the comedy is in that scene, you know?
17:43
Who I think of that's like the, the antithesis of what you just
17:45
said is Sarah Silverman in The Muppets in the 2011 Jason Segel
17:50
Muppet movie, where she could have been, that could have been
17:54
an extra like if you don't know who Sarah Silverman is, then
17:57
it's it's nothing. And like, it's, but there's also
17:59
no joke there. There's no like ladies and
18:01
gentlemen, Sarah Silverman. It's just, it's, it's nothing.
18:05
And yeah, these early Muppet movies didn't waste that time.
18:08
Yeah, I like both of those James Bowen movies a lot, but I I feel
18:11
like that's a big thing that that like that I bumped on was I
18:16
feel like it's distracting to have them if they're not going
18:19
to be there to serve a comedic purpose, you need to actually
18:23
give them something to do. And those two movies feel like
18:25
they sometimes get into this person clearly just wanted to be
18:29
on set to meet them up which. I think it's they're.
18:32
Calling in. I get it.
18:34
They're so obviously calling in favors from James Boeben or, or,
18:37
or the flight of the Conchords guys or whatever.
18:40
And then but then the same thing is happening here where
18:43
literally Janet, you just said you called Matt to be like
18:46
you're doing this thing and I want to do it, but it but it
18:48
works. Obviously.
18:49
I mean, look, they're two different Zappos and organs.
18:51
But I, I think, I think Matt, no, I think Matt has really good
18:56
taste in judgement of how to apply people.
18:58
So they're actually doing something that is working for
19:01
the show. I also think like that was so
19:06
much of the magic of the Muppet Show for me is, I mean, watching
19:09
as a child, I, that was my introduction to so many of those
19:12
performers for the first time. But now I watch them with more
19:15
understanding of who they were. And you're like, that show was
19:17
giving big, big stars an opportunity to show off things
19:22
that they had no other outlet for.
19:23
You know, I think Henson and and Jewel and everybody were really
19:28
good at like saying like, what's the thing that no one else is
19:31
going to let Sylvester Stallone do, you know?
19:34
And so it's not just funny because it's like, oh, it's
19:36
Stallone next to a puppet. It's like you're sensing the joy
19:39
of they're getting to do something that's fully in their
19:42
power. That's a little surprising to
19:44
see. And I think this type of, you
19:47
know, show of like doing a library of a beloved thing and
19:50
like stunt casting comedy people as like characters we all know
19:54
and love can become really stunty and gimmicky.
19:57
And the thing that was so satisfying about, I mean, like
20:01
truly, I I wasn't able to do the the great Muppet caper one, but
20:06
the Muppet movie one, I was like, this is the greatest show
20:08
I've ever been a part of in any capacity.
20:10
This is the greatest thing I've ever gotten to do as a performer
20:12
just to be a small part of this. And more than anything, like on
20:15
stage, front row seat, getting to witness it happening.
20:19
But it was that. Like, actually felt like we were
20:21
serving both the emotionality and the humor of the script
20:25
itself, rather than just kind of doing a novelty factor.
20:28
Look, it's all of us wearing funny costumes and doing voices,
20:32
and I think that speaks a lot to, like, Matt very well.
20:35
Curating people who really get it and everyone's showing up and
20:40
really committing. Sure.
20:42
Yeah, yeah. I feel like on some level and
20:46
Griff, you can disagree with me, Matt, let me know if I'm wrong,
20:48
But there is a point at which you're like, Oh my God, I'm so
20:52
glad that we're all endeavoring to be worthy of sharing the
20:58
stage with Nina West's Miss Piggy.
21:01
Like if I can just if I can just earn the right to have been on
21:06
the same stage because that's a perfect example of an
21:09
opportunity where you could, it could just be the visual gag of
21:14
a fabulous drag queen as Miss Picky like that.
21:16
Could you could you could imagine someone saying like drop
21:20
any drag queen in there. It'll be so funny and great.
21:23
But that is not like Nina, is it?
21:26
It was so I was like laugh crying, but kind of cry crying
21:32
with emotion over how tenderly yet over the top.
21:38
We like Nina in particular. Again, everybody in the cast was
21:42
phenomenal, but she's she's this, she's this centerpiece,
21:46
you know, as Miss Piggy would want it to be.
21:49
And but she but the, the, IT was so sweet and so genuine while
21:54
also being insane that I was like very, very moved by it.
21:59
And I, I'm, I'm, I'm basically, I mean, I already love Nina, but
22:03
I'm, I'm sort of in love with Nina now.
22:04
Like I, I feel like I would like.
22:07
I. Would, yeah, I would like, I
22:08
would like sacrifice my own life to save Nina.
22:11
It's kind of how I feel after doing these shows with her.
22:14
Like, no, no joke, you just describing that, Janet gave me
22:17
chills. Like, right from like you
22:19
describing and being like, oh, right.
22:20
That's what would have felt like to watch it happen.
22:22
And yeah, for show, we're all on stage from the beginning, but
22:26
Nina was backstage in the full get up and made an entrance,
22:30
wasn't seated visibly before then at the beginning of the
22:34
pageant to do the number and got a standing ovation from the
22:37
entire crowd and all the performers on stage.
22:39
And there was that feeling of like pin drop, like, Oh my God,
22:42
I'm witnessing something incredible.
22:44
And I, I went up to Nina right after and I, I'd known Nina a
22:48
little bit, done a show with them a couple months earlier, I
22:52
guess. And I had talked about them up
22:54
to a little bit, obviously knew like, you know, such a big fan.
22:57
But I was like, I just want you to know that I recognized that
23:03
you got every single inflection right, that not only are you
23:08
embodying Miss Piggy, but you clearly have watched this 50,000
23:12
times. And I know you're not looking
23:15
for brownie points, but I kept hearing like, oh, the timing's
23:18
perfect. Yes, yes.
23:20
Went up on that word like this is so like, I've been waiting to
23:24
do this my entire life. And as you said, it really felt
23:27
like it was done as like a very profound tribute.
23:32
So, so to that point, probably more for you, Griff, do do you
23:36
feel like because you know the movie so well, all these movies
23:41
that these characters are just tattooed on your brain and you
23:45
are going to end up saying the inflection in the same way that
23:48
these actors did? Or are you like, no, no, I got
23:50
to kind of get past that and put my own spin on it.
23:56
I think specifically with my 2 characters.
23:59
So we're, you know, we're on this promoting the the Manhattan
24:03
one. Yeah, we should.
24:03
We should mention who you're playing.
24:06
Alani Price character, of course, the awesome penalty of
24:08
that movie. In both of those cases, I think
24:13
because they're less iconic to non hardcore Muppet fanatics
24:19
like the people on the Zoom, there was less of a sense of
24:23
like, the audience is going to throw tomatoes at you if you're
24:26
not getting the voice right. I also think this is just a
24:30
personal challenge for myself. I think that because they feel
24:34
like, well, if this movie was being made tomorrow, I would be
24:37
demanding an audition and trying to get this role for real.
24:40
I do feel like I kind of try to approach them as like, how would
24:43
I just play this? Which ends up being not that far
24:47
off from how the original guys did.
24:50
But I think I'm not trying to mirror specific inflections as
24:53
much. Although I'm sure if I were to
24:55
rewatch it, I I realize like, Oh, I did that.
24:58
It's it's what you said. It's like tattooed in my brain
25:00
where Toy Story just got re released in theaters for the
25:05
30th anniversary and I went to see it in theaters with my
25:07
girlfriend this weekend and I had that same kind of thing
25:10
where I'm like, I could like musically recite this.
25:13
Yeah, right. And the and the first Muppet
25:15
movie in particular, I have that with as well.
25:19
But it's also what's so fun about it is like Nina came out
25:21
and just did like the most Immaculate recreation done in a
25:25
way that's like, you know, that wasn't clinical.
25:28
That was still very emotional, but was like perfect
25:31
reproduction. And then someone like Mark Evan
25:34
Jackson, who's such a great performer and innately has this
25:37
kind of Kermity vibe, was not trying to do a Kermit impression
25:41
and really treated it as if it's like, I am the next actor to
25:44
take on the role of Macbeth, you know, like, how do I
25:47
dramatically interpret this? And him doing that honestly ends
25:51
up feeling very correctly Kermit.
25:53
But he wasn't doing the exact same moves.
25:56
And it's just really exciting to see the harmonizing of that.
25:59
And also on stage because we're not rehearsing these things
26:03
outside of the musical numbers. That feeling of like, Oh my God,
26:07
he's standing up now. He's about to do this scene.
26:10
How is he going to play? It is a really, really fun
26:13
tension. And everyone just like steps up
26:15
to bat and hits it out of the park.
26:19
So I, I want to get us off topic just for a quick second because
26:23
Janet, I wanted to ask you, I mentioned at the top of the of
26:26
the podcast that you were one of the Co creators of Neil's Puppet
26:30
Dreams. And this was for anyone who
26:32
doesn't remember the show. It was in 20/12/2013.
26:36
It was produced by the Jim Henson Company and it was just a
26:40
not just it was a web series starring Neil Patrick Harris in
26:44
which he quote Dreams in Puppet. So first of all, I mean, you got
26:50
to work with the Henson Company on this project.
26:52
So can you talk a little bit about like what what that was
26:55
that experience was like for you?
26:57
Oh, sure, Yeah. I mean, I was when I first moved
27:01
to LA, possibly even before I actually officially moved to Lai
27:06
very quickly found out about Pop It Up, which is nighttime
27:12
adults. I would say adults only
27:15
probably. I don't think I've ever seen any
27:17
children there. I don't think they're allowed
27:18
version of yeah, of of just one, honestly, like one of the
27:23
coolest live things I had ever seen and still have ever seen
27:28
getting because because it really is.
27:31
It's sort of one of those like what what crazy thing of like,
27:36
what crazy combination of like stuff you care about would like
27:39
almost not seem to make sense on one stage, but then somehow
27:43
works completely brilliantly. And the idea of having Jim
27:48
Henson puppets with puppeteers who also happen to be some of
27:52
the best improvisers out there, period.
27:55
And that you would like, break the thing that felt so sacred as
28:00
a younger person and still feel sacred in certain media of not
28:06
seeing the puppeteer behind the puppet because the puppet is
28:09
sacred and the puppet is the character.
28:11
And how dare you remind me there's a human being under
28:14
there. That seems like it wouldn't
28:17
work, at least not for me. And yet, you know, going to see
28:20
it and see and seeing characters.
28:23
And now these are different. This is different puppets.
28:24
So you're not seeing Kermit go blue, but you are definitely
28:27
seeing Henson. They're very, you know, Henson
28:29
puppets have a very strong personality and brand.
28:33
So you are very aware that you are watching Jim Henson puppets
28:37
say sometimes very shockingly vulgar things.
28:40
So that's a that's a combination of things that wouldn't
28:43
necessarily seem like they would work.
28:45
And yet it's just a phenomenal show and it's so funny and so
28:49
charming and it is so exciting to get to see the puppeteers
28:53
working and and and operating on the fly in every way.
28:59
So I was a massive fan of that show just through kind of the
29:05
comedy community and like working on different shows and
29:09
stuff over the handful of years that I was there before Neil's
29:12
puppet dreams and in addition becoming friends with Neil and
29:15
his his husband David. It was a real kind of perfect
29:21
storm of like the I like Neil was Neil and David.
29:24
They're also massive Muppet fans and we had the opportunity to
29:30
make that happen and really like, it's what, you know, those
29:34
things that you work on. I'm sure we've all had these.
29:36
There are labours of love that you work on that come difficult.
29:41
They're hard. They're just like hard to kind
29:43
of construct and you deconstruct them and reconstruct them and
29:46
you're like, I hate this thing. Wait, I think I love this thing.
29:48
Again, this was not that. This was one of the other things
29:52
where you're like, you kind of do feel like it always was there
29:56
and you're just kind of like chipping away the existing
29:59
marble to get that out of the way.
30:00
So the sculptures there or just dusting off the dust from the
30:04
archaeology site where it's like, oh, this was always gonna
30:07
happen. And it just felt very
30:09
effortless. And writing the sketches felt
30:11
very effortless. And casting it felt very
30:13
effortless for the same reason. I'm sure that that, you know,
30:17
Matt is able to get all these phenomenal people.
30:19
Like if you ask Nathan Fillion if he wants to work with the Jim
30:22
Henson puppets, he's like, what time do you need me there?
30:24
I'll cancel everything else. So that that experience was was
30:29
a dream. And we did shoot on the Henson
30:31
lot, which of course is the old Charlie Chaplin studio.
30:35
And you know, when you pull up on La Brea, you're looking wait.
30:38
Right. Yeah, It's not Highland.
30:39
Right. It's I was.
30:41
I can't, I can't keep Highland and Labre.
30:43
I've lived here 20 years. I still can't tell the
30:45
difference between Highland and. Labrea, I know one St. in LA for
30:48
that reason. Yeah, well, I could say I
30:51
probably would get that wrong, too.
30:53
Yeah. You know, and there's this very
30:55
iconic Kermit wearing Charlie Chaplin duds with a little hat
30:59
and cane. And I have never not gotten
31:02
choked up going on to that lot. It is extremely emotional in the
31:07
best way. And, you know, things have
31:10
things are changing with that lot.
31:12
And hopefully there's going to be a lot that that is preserved,
31:16
but get really going on that set.
31:18
And by then I'm sure I had met so weirdly Brian Henson and Mia
31:22
Sarah, also my neighbors. So that was just, again, the
31:25
confluence of this is LA, like sometimes there are just people
31:29
you keep running into or circles that you know you would never
31:32
think you would and things come at you from different
31:34
directions, in other words. So anyway, long story long, we
31:38
had the opportunity to do this and there was a song, I think
31:41
the first sketch that we filmed was a song that I had written
31:45
and Brian Henson performs in that sketch as one of the
31:50
puppets. And I was sobbing like the
31:54
entire time that that was shooting.
31:57
I just couldn't. I was like, it was just one of
31:59
those experiences where you're like, OK, I can die tomorrow.
32:01
I mean, it's such a cliche, but truly, like, I I still think
32:06
about that. If I'm having a bad industry
32:08
day, I'm like, yeah, but but oh, my God, Brian Henson sang a song
32:13
you wrote and you're like puppeteer to puppet.
32:15
And that just lives there forever, even if no one ever
32:17
sees it. Like, cool, great.
32:19
I'm good. It's all on YouTube, by the way,
32:22
for anyone who's curious to to see the show because it's it's
32:25
fun and it's short and you know, but like, I also wanted to make
32:29
sure I brought this up because obviously, you know, the Henson
32:33
connection we got to, we got to crack this stuff wide open.
32:36
But it's genuinely shocking to me that the two of you being not
32:41
only incredibly talented performers whose work I love and
32:45
I know so many people in our community loves, but knowing
32:50
that you have such a public love of The Muppets and you are known
32:53
as people who are like cool to work with and make the same the
32:57
comedy, that's kind of in the same realm that you haven't
33:00
worked with The Muppets yet. And yet we don't like each
33:02
other. We cannot stand each other.
33:05
Vicious rivals, yeah. Vicious rivals?
33:07
Because I don't mean with each other.
33:09
Corner No. That's right.
33:12
No, with with specifically. Everyone says I'm the Griffin of
33:16
the West, Yeah. Yes, yes.
33:18
Yeah, sorry about that, Joe. No, you're sorry about the
33:20
derail. Sorry.
33:21
It please, but but like, I want to see the two of you work with
33:25
The Muppets. And this is something we've
33:26
we've like kind of talked to people before on these
33:30
interviews where it's just like God, you're you're, you're a
33:33
huge fan. You are probably willing to do
33:36
anything that they ask because you're such a huge fan and like
33:40
you're, you're not nobody, you're a name.
33:42
So like, why aren't they calling you?
33:44
So my question to the to both of you is if you got the call from
33:48
The Muppets, from the, from the Disney owned Muppets Muppet Show
33:50
family, what do you want to do with them?
33:57
I know it's a big question. Yeah, it's a really big
33:59
question. I'll say this.
34:02
You know, there was the Sesame Street movie that was set up at
34:06
Warner Brothers that I think Jonathan Crystal of Portlandia
34:09
was supposed to direct. Yep, that's right.
34:11
Anne Hathaway was supposed to be in and it was truly a thing
34:14
where that movie felt vaguely cursed where I I auditioned for
34:19
that film three times, I want to say in three separate calendar
34:23
years because it was going to happen in 2019.
34:28
And they were like we film in eight weeks and I got the
34:30
audition and I was like this is the dream.
34:32
And they were like, we have like 5 different one page roles, you
34:36
know, that we're all kind of what I was talking about, like
34:39
the human cameos where you're like, this is just a funny
34:41
scene. You know, it's a New York tour
34:43
guide having to answer how to get to Sesame Street or
34:47
whatever. It was like they were good bits,
34:49
right? And I did it and I, I really
34:52
killed it so hard. And I found out the cast reader
34:54
brought up in the room that she listened to in my podcast and
34:57
was like, and I know how much this means to you.
34:59
And I was like, oh great, I don't even need to tell you, you
35:02
get that. I'll do anything that I will pay
35:04
to be in this. And I was like, I think they're
35:06
going to give me one of these roles.
35:07
And then Anne Hathaway got pregnant and they pushed the
35:10
movie back to try to wait it out.
35:14
And when they were about to go again, the pandemic hit.
35:16
So then they pushed it back again and it was prepped one
35:20
final time. And then I think the strikes
35:23
happened. There were truly like 3 force
35:26
majeures and all three times I got the call to come in and I
35:29
was like, well, this time I'm going to, I'm going to get it.
35:32
But it did. Even doing the fake version of
35:35
that, the audition version of that, without the Muppet in the
35:38
room, I was like, that is what I want to do.
35:41
I I'd like to just be the human being who has a funny
35:43
interaction with them for a moment in a certain way, you
35:46
know? Yeah, I I like that you chose
35:49
something that was, it's so like that would actually happen.
35:53
Like you could have said, yeah, I would have a big song and
35:56
dance number with, with like the entire, like with 50 Muppets.
35:59
But you and you deliberately said something that like I, I
36:03
would actually be shocked that does not happen in your career.
36:07
I I, yeah, I don't know, I even like it is weird.
36:09
That is more my fantasy than like you host an episode of the
36:13
Muppet Show or whatever is just to like score like 3 funny line
36:17
readings off of like a main character, you know, and by the
36:21
way, my definition of main character contains like 60
36:24
character does not surprise me. You know, I, I would, it could
36:27
be a two line exchange with Louis Kazagar and I'd be happy.
36:31
But yeah, yeah, that's, that's my answer, I think.
36:35
Great. Janet, do you have an answer on
36:37
this? I mean, if we're going
36:40
hypothetical, I'm going to go the if that's the most likely
36:46
scenario. If we just arrived at like the
36:48
most likely scenario of of us on this podcast, let's go with the
36:52
least likely scenario, which is that I have enough notice.
36:58
And for some reason it's important to someone there that
37:02
I get that I be a puppet. I'm not, I don't need to like
37:06
be, you know, I'm not going to try to do an impression and like
37:10
take it because that's just hard.
37:13
But I took puppeteering lessons from a from an original Henson
37:18
puppeteer because I was, I love puppet up so much and and I
37:25
really love it. And I got to puppeteer some of
37:28
the puppets from from Neil's puppet dreams.
37:32
It is, it is really hard. It is really hard aside from
37:37
just the reverse, like understanding that you're seeing
37:40
yourself on camera and you have to do everything backwards,
37:42
which is like such a mind if for weeks.
37:46
It's so hard on your body. So I'm going like extreme
37:50
unlikeliness, which is I have time, you know, they set me up
37:55
with my dear friend Colleen Smith, who's one of the most
37:57
talented human beings I know and is a phenomenal handsome
38:01
puppeteer. And she somehow is able to spend
38:04
like 8 weeks with me and we're, and we're training and
38:07
puppeteering every day and then we go into rehearsals and I get
38:09
to be some sort of puppet. I would love that.
38:14
I really would love that. This is how you know that Jen
38:16
and I are both actually insane nerds.
38:18
For this is that neither of our answers were like it's Muppet
38:21
Les Mis and I'm the human lead and I did a player and Janet's
38:26
answer was can I puppeteer or whatnot.
38:29
Oh my God, I can just sit and like talk about how you're
38:32
supposed to throw the words out as you're puppeteering.
38:37
You know, like all of that stuff is just like it gets in there.
38:40
And you, you know, when you Start learning how to puppeteer
38:42
a Henson puppet, they just give you 2 Kermit.
38:44
It's essentially Kermit eyes, which is just two ping pong
38:47
balls with eyes painted on them that fit on these two fingers.
38:51
And you're just learning how to do that.
38:53
And it's like the most fun thing in the world.
38:57
Everyone should take a puppetry lesson.
38:58
Everyone should take an improv lesson and a puppetry lesson and
39:01
expand your horizons. No, I love this.
39:06
I mean, when you when you first said that you wanted to
39:08
puppeteer, play a play, be a be a puppet, I think it's the way
39:11
you said it, I assume. That you wanted the Janet Varney
39:14
puppet? Yeah, like there's going to be a
39:16
Janet Varney puppet, which, which is my dream, is that I
39:21
want to be in this game so long that they're like, hey, I heard
39:24
Joe's retiring. We got to give him a puppet.
39:26
We got to make a Joe puppet. There you go.
39:29
Yeah. The thrilling Adventure Hour
39:31
remembers. We, yeah, we have puppets for
39:34
our kind of principal characters on that show and that was
39:38
something that we got in like 2016 maybe.
39:41
That was Jimmy Bressler that made those right.
39:44
Yeah. And yeah.
39:45
And that was, that was, that was another yeah.
39:48
Like check, check mark. Like oh I have a really
39:51
beautifully made puppet that my dog is so afraid of.
39:56
I don't have it here sadly, but you you mentioned the George
40:00
Lucas talk show earlier, which is this insane, incredibly
40:03
difficult to describe show I do with Conor Ratliff and Patrick
40:07
Cotner where we do a real talk show.
40:10
With real celebrity guests. But we're in character as George
40:13
Lucas and Watto. And when we were in deep locked
40:16
down and doing very long marathon live streams of the
40:20
show every week, at some point a viewer made puppets of the three
40:26
of us. And so I have this very bizarre,
40:29
it's really high quality, but like a Muppet style puppet of me
40:34
in a bad Watto costume. It's not a Star Wars Episode 1
40:42
Watto puppet and it's not a Griffin puppet.
40:44
It's Griffin as Watto. It's very, it was made a Griffin
40:47
puppet and then like made that costume and wear the zippers.
40:53
That's so lovely. Does it?
40:55
Does it have the little sequel hat?
40:59
That's a good question, I think. I think it doesn't.
41:03
OK, well that's that's an accessory that you could make.
41:05
Yeah, that's after the fact. There could be a series of
41:08
outfits that are made. I think.
41:10
I think it has the water. All alternate between wearing
41:13
his his Attack the Clone sequel hat and a Yamaha that is
41:17
bejeweled with the name Water on the back and I my memory is that
41:21
it has the Yamaha but not the seafood.
41:23
Amazing, you need all the variance in the end.
41:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, Griff, Speaking of your
41:29
projects, so you you're one of the hosts of the Blank Check
41:32
podcast. You guys review movies, you go
41:34
dive into these deep filmographies.
41:37
Any chance you're going to do Muppets or maybe the Frank Oz
41:41
movies at some point? Big time, big time.
41:43
So we our main feed on the show, we pick a director, we go
41:46
through their whole career chronologically and try to kind
41:49
of chart the ups and downs of getting a blank check career in
41:53
Hollywood. And then our Patreon.
41:56
We do franchises instead of directors and so we tend to go
42:01
towards franchises that don't have one dominant author in that
42:06
way or franchises that are like this director's work is really
42:09
about this one film series and maybe it isn't worth covering
42:12
the rest of their stuff, but but yeah.
42:16
So sometimes there's like an excuse like that.
42:17
For years I've been pushing my Co host David Sims to do The
42:21
Muppets as a Patreon series and do all the theatrical movies.
42:26
And we do like a March Madness thing every year where once a
42:30
year we let people vote in March for Patreon and made feed to
42:33
pick one series. And Muppets was doing really
42:37
well last year. And in a somewhat controversial
42:40
move, I, I kind of tanked the vote.
42:44
I came out with an anti endorsement, which is I, but let
42:48
me explain why. I was like, I've actually re
42:51
strategized and I don't think this is the best way to do The
42:55
Muppets on the podcast. I think the best thing to do is
42:57
to combine Henson and Oz's directing careers and get one
43:02
series, because I always was like, well, Henson's only got a
43:06
couple, and Oz you only get one canonical Muppet movie.
43:10
But I'd love to talk about all the Oz comedies, one or the
43:13
other. It's kind of incomplete.
43:15
And we're never going to do a a James Crawley series to cover
43:18
the first Muppet. Movie.
43:19
I don't understand why you wouldn't.
43:21
Do a series, right? It's like you could do a series
43:23
where you start with that while acknowledging that neither one
43:27
of them directed it. But that's sort of the beginning
43:29
of them in movies. And then from there, you're
43:31
alternating between Henson, Oz collab and then obviously after
43:36
Henson's passing, it's an Oz series.
43:38
So I, I, I made people swing the vote away from Muppets in the
43:44
promise that I am very committed to making that happen.
43:47
So it's not firmly on our schedule yet, but I'm
43:49
aggressively looking for the slot to fit it in and and make
43:53
this promise to your listeners that it will happen.
43:58
We have a promise. It's on the record.
44:00
No, I really hope you do that. I hope you invite me on as your
44:04
guest. I want to talk about Muppet
44:05
movies with you. Absolutely.
44:07
It is the number one thing. Now, I'd say the most common
44:10
question if like I run into listeners on the street, they go
44:13
like, so is that how's that happening since I put it out now
44:17
people are really invested in like you're pushing that
44:19
through, right? Like it's a bill in Congress
44:22
that I'm like fighting for pushing.
44:24
You're pushing that through, right?
44:27
Great. So OK, so you've got your Blank
44:33
Check podcast. Let's the George Lucas Talk Show
44:36
documentary is out on DVD right now.
44:39
And Blu-ray and Blu-ray with a record number of special
44:43
features. Patrick Huttner, our producer,
44:44
has broken the commentary record, so I think it has like
44:48
70 commentary tracks. That's insane.
44:51
There's. So many that they couldn't fit
44:53
them all on the disc. So the disc includes like a
44:57
flyer with AQR code to access a website with additional.
45:02
So perfect. Oh.
45:04
Absolutely incredible. I know, I know.
45:05
One of the commentaries is Brian J Jones, who wrote the Jiminson
45:08
biography, and one is Craig. 'S on the show and.
45:12
One is Craig Shemin and Stephanie de Bruso.
45:15
Yes, who also had been guests. Yeah, No, I mean, The Muppets
45:19
are a big shared passion for Connor, Patrick and I.
45:23
It's it's why someone thought to make Muppets of our characters.
45:27
But but certainly any excuse anytime we can book anyone who
45:32
is Muppet and especially like Henson related, we will do it.
45:36
And you watch the show kind of dissolve in real time because we
45:40
all drop our characters and just start asking earnest questions
45:43
we've always wanted the answers to.
45:45
We had Raleigh. Cruson on.
45:47
I was there for that. Some other Muppet people we've
45:49
had on, I remember right, I mean.
45:51
I remember being at the Raleigh Cruson 1 and like, who knows who
45:54
Raleigh Cruson is? Like, you know, like that was, I
45:56
mean, that was such a joy, right?
45:58
Exactly. And you know, for her to start
46:01
with, like her basically being like, so George, you and I work
46:03
together on Labyrinth and like talking as if they actually know
46:07
each other. And then, like you said, it
46:08
devolves into we just have questions about the Muppet Show.
46:12
We just like, what's what's that like?
46:14
And like, that's great. That's why I'm here.
46:16
I don't care that you're George Lucas.
46:18
I don't care that you're giving away Star Wars merge.
46:22
People think the show, understandably because of what
46:24
it's called and how you have to pitch it to people, that it's
46:27
just like in jokey Star Wars, deep cut esoterica.
46:32
But at this point, like my version of Lotto and Connor's
46:35
version of George have almost become their own things.
46:38
And the show, very often an entire episode will go by where
46:42
Star Wars is maybe barely invoked.
46:45
But my favorite thing that can happen on the show is when we
46:48
get someone who has any history with George Lucas, be it like an
46:52
actual working history or a meeting once and the only real
46:55
thing we see at a guest backstage to prep them is the
46:59
only rule that matters is he is George.
47:02
Treat him like real George. If you know real George at all,
47:05
talk to him like he is the guy you know Connor loves if you
47:09
throw at him. Hey, remember when we.
47:12
Yes. You know, he loves the challenge
47:15
of that even of course if he wasn't there and he doesn't
47:18
remember having to yes on that. I mean, I wanted to have you
47:21
guys on my one of my podcasts where we were going to just
47:25
basically interview George about Labyrinth and and Derrick
47:28
Kristol and I think that would have been a blast.
47:30
We missed out. Yeah, yeah.
47:31
He. Could do it.
47:32
He could do it, yeah. All right, So what else are you
47:35
working on right now that you can you can tell our audience
47:38
about? That's a good question.
47:42
I'm trying to remember if there's anything I can tell the
47:45
audience about. I know Jan and I are similar
47:47
boat where when you do a lot of like video animation stuff.
47:53
Oh. Sure.
47:53
Yeah, It's very hard to keep more.
47:56
So it's hard to remember like what have I done and has that
47:59
come out or not? But there's some of that stuff
48:04
that maybe has come. Out or will come out.
48:06
All right, well, go to Griffin Newman's IMDb page, see what
48:09
he's. Out but you know what I did pre
48:11
production? I did an episode of a there's a
48:14
new Netflix animated show that I think is premiering early next
48:17
year called strip law about like a a law firm run out of a strip
48:22
mall. That is a really, really funny
48:26
and there's an episode where I play a kind of like huckster
48:31
child pastor that I thought was a lot of fun.
48:36
That's coming out. And then on on blank check we're
48:38
doing we're doing the Coen brothers right now, which has
48:42
been good. It turns out they're very good
48:44
at making movies and it's fun to talk about those movies.
48:48
And on our Patreon we're doing a kind of self curated franchise
48:52
of 90s indie comics adaptations. So like the Mask and the Crow,
48:59
Judge Dredd, barbed wire, a very weird assemblage of movies.
49:03
We're absolutely spine. Mystery Men is the one other
49:07
one. Tank Girls in there, Tank Girl,
49:09
Tank girls in there. Wow.
49:10
That's amazing. Yeah.
49:12
Janet, what are what are you working on right now?
49:16
Well, I know John Hodgman recently appeared just to tie it
49:20
all up with a neat little bow on on Blank Check and mentioned a
49:24
podcast that he and I have been doing on the Maximum Fun Network
49:27
called E Pluribus Motto where we examine and lightly mock and
49:33
sometimes heavily mock and sometimes hugely embrace the
49:36
motto's flags and other state symbols that you find in these
49:41
for now, United States of America.
49:43
We'll be moving into other territories in the future, but
49:48
that is available. It's been such a joy and really
49:53
like a strange and great way to get to know states of the
49:57
country that you may have like predisposed ideas about and or,
50:03
or places that you love and see from a different perspective.
50:08
And also find out quickly, like no one knows anything about any
50:12
of the stuff that is actually from their home state.
50:14
Like people are like the the what now?
50:16
What's the motto? I've lived there all my life
50:19
that they we have a motto. It's been it's been really,
50:23
really fun. So that's one thing.
50:24
And then yeah, like Griffin, the my worst example of that is that
50:27
I have now recorded a full two seasons of a Netflix animated
50:31
show and nothing has been announced at all.
50:34
Two seasons. Don't know what it's coming out
50:37
like. It's it's bonkers.
50:40
Amazing. Well, I look forward to whatever
50:42
that is and spending two whole years.
50:44
Watching, I guess. I guess.
50:46
Me too. Matt, we know what you're
50:50
working on. You're working on The Muppets
50:51
Take script. Hatton, can you remind folks
50:54
where they can get live stream tickets?
50:58
Absolutely. And I just want to to also tie
51:00
it up and mention that John Hodgman is in our show.
51:04
Wow. So, so if we haven't, if if you
51:07
haven't heard, John Hodgman is there, he's gonna be playing
51:10
Pete, which is such fun casting. I cannot wait to see it.
51:15
Yes. So our show is coming up.
51:17
It's at the Bell House in Brooklyn on Friday, October
51:20
24th. We are sold out for in person,
51:24
but we are going to have a live stream which you can find
51:26
throughveeps.com. You can also find it on the Bell
51:29
House website and on the Dynasty typewriter website.
51:32
Dynasty is our our home theater and they're actually going to be
51:35
the ones coming out to film it at the theater.
51:38
It's going to be like a really fun production.
51:40
I'm calling it a Dynabelle production because the 2
51:43
theaters have been working together so well and it's, it's
51:46
hopefully going to add to more collaboration between the two of
51:49
them. But it's a really great show.
51:51
We have so many amazing people. You can check out our previous
51:55
shows at dynasty.typeexcusemedynasty.tv
52:00
for our previous shows. And this show that we're doing
52:04
is going to be supporting Broadway Cares, Slash Equity,
52:07
Fights, AIDS, which is a really great organization that does
52:11
some really wonderful things for the Broadway community and the
52:14
community at large. So we're, we're so happy that
52:17
we're getting to with all of these shows.
52:19
I will never do one of these that's not a charity event,
52:22
that's not giving back to people because I think it's so
52:24
important right now. There's so many organizations
52:27
that need our help. And it's, it's so great to to do
52:30
something so fun. And then also know that at the
52:33
end of the day, you're raising money for people that really
52:35
need it. Wow, well said.
52:38
Well, thank you all so much for listening to this podcast, Matt.
52:42
Thanks for being here. Janet Varney Griffin Newman,
52:46
thank you both so much for giving back so much to the
52:48
Muppet fan community. And I can't wait for the show.
52:51
I think it's going to be a blast.
52:53
We can't wait either. I know, I don't know why I felt
52:55
like I couldn't say anything. And goodbye, I guess.