Latest / ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact / The Unexpected Power of Pie, Memory, and Human Connection with Beth Howard

Transcript

The Unexpected Power of Pie, Memory, and Human Connection with Beth Howard · ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture and Impact

0:00
It's a community gathering event.
0:02
People are lonely, they're isolated, they want to slow
0:05
down, they don't know how. And this is a chance for them to
0:08
say, you know what, I'm going to make a pie and bring it to this
0:11
film and participate and and then share it with the audience
0:15
afterwards. We must have had at least 40
0:17
pies. That was Beth Howard, and this
0:20
is Roar. Hi everybody.
0:27
This is Danielle Davies from Roar.
0:29
Today we're talking to Beth Howard.
0:31
Beth was a journalist for more than 20 years, telling other
0:33
people's stories when in 2001, she made a surprising pivot,
0:37
leaving a lucrative web producing job to bake pies.
0:40
That decision eventually led to The World Needs More Pie
0:43
website, Four Books and now Piowa, A Piece of America, her
0:46
first documentary film. Paio has been screening around
0:50
the country, spreading largely through word of mouth, and has
0:52
already earned the Best Food Film Award at the San Antonio
0:55
Film Festival, the Audience Award at the Silicon Beach Film
0:59
Festival, an Award and and an Award of Merit from the Impact
1:03
Docs Awards. What stands out most in the film
1:06
isn't how pie is just food. It's memory, ritual, comfort and
1:11
connection. And how often it's women doing
1:13
that work. Today's conversation explores
1:16
why nourishment and storytelling so often fall to women, what
1:19
that labor really represents, what happens when women choose
1:23
it on their own terms, and, of course, pie.
1:25
Welcome, Beth. Hi, thanks for having me.
1:28
We're, I'm thrilled that you're here and I, you know, obviously
1:32
you have done my background stuff and my research into you
1:35
and I'm, and have obviously watched Piowa, which I highly
1:39
recommend. But tell me you spent decades as
1:42
a journalist beforehand. What originally drew you to π as
1:45
a subject that you could center and document?
1:50
Yeah, and. Not just eat, Yeah.
1:52
Yeah, no, I mean, I I think it goes back to what you said was,
1:55
you know, the.com job that I left as a web producer and I was
1:59
so tired of working behind a computer and creating virtual
2:02
worlds for outdoor adventure websites.
2:04
I'm like, no, go outside, you know, for real.
2:07
Like don't just look at don't do have some simulated experience
2:11
on your computer. You should really go outside.
2:14
So I, I got really, that didn't like sit well with me
2:17
philosophically. So I told my bosses that I
2:20
wanted to quit and I wanted to go do something with my hands.
2:24
I wanted to like engage my senses, do something tactile.
2:28
And I said, I blurted out, I just want to go make pie.
2:32
And that's what I ended up doing.
2:34
So it was just kind of weird how you could just put an idea out
2:38
there and then it happens. Like, I left San Francisco and
2:42
moved down to Los Angeles, where I had been living previously
2:45
during my journalism years. And I walked into a little cafe
2:50
in Malibu that was supposed to be known for its pie.
2:53
It was actually brand new. They were supposed to have good
2:55
pie and they didn't have any when I walked in.
2:57
So I said I would make it for them.
2:59
And next thing you know, I'm not only making pie for a year
3:02
there. It's like set me on this whole
3:04
crazy pie journey of books and now film and blog.
3:09
It's crazy because it's like it's pie, you know, and you
3:13
think about like any kind of thing.
3:15
I'm looking around because I'm like, it's just as as common as
3:20
anything, you know, like a candle or this or that.
3:22
But it's you've because it is actually so much more than that
3:27
and you but you've identified that it's so much more than
3:29
that. You know, it's not, it is as
3:31
simple and everyday as a candle or a bookmark or a pen or the
3:36
things that we use in our homes. But it's so much more than that,
3:40
because it's the experience of the making and the nourishing
3:44
and the community and the gathering, but that you
3:47
identified at that at the earliest, well.
3:50
It was also, like you said in the introduction, memory because
3:54
my dad loved banana cream pie. Like that was a thing all
3:58
through his life, all throughout my childhood.
4:00
You know, he's my first pie memory is having banana cream
4:03
pie with him at in fact, the canteen lunch in the alley,
4:08
which is this diner in Ottumwa, IA that's featured in my film.
4:11
My film opens up with that because, you know, it's my first
4:14
pie memory might not start there.
4:16
And yeah, and I I just all through our life like.
4:20
And now even he's. He passed away in 2017.
4:23
And when, you know, when I miss him, I go and have a piece of
4:27
banana cream pie or just to celebrate him or just, I don't
4:30
know, I can't eat a piece of banana cream pie without almost
4:34
like, you know, swallowing tears with it because I just miss him
4:38
so much. So, you know, it's an emotional
4:40
thing. And I found that as a true for
4:43
pretty much everybody across the board.
4:44
Crazy enough, you know, like people I interviewed in the film
4:47
were actually breaking down in tears on camera because it, you
4:51
know, this, I'm talking about a pie memory evoked so much
4:55
emotion and so much love. You know, that's what it comes
4:59
down to. And I think you captured that so
5:02
well in the film. I, I'm just curious, like, why
5:05
do you think? And of course I'm, I mean, I
5:09
think I know the answer to this, but I want to get your words,
5:11
obviously. Why do you think feeding and
5:13
nourishing, especially through something like PIE, which is and
5:16
you know, in your film, I'm get letting everybody know in the
5:20
film, Beth actually shows that pie isn't you know, they're
5:23
savory pies and there's meals as pies and and talks even about
5:26
different cultural interpretations of pies like egg
5:29
rolls and things like that. But in terms of the American
5:34
view of pie is like a dessert and something special and like
5:38
the add on to your your meal. Why do you think feeding and
5:42
nourishing, especially through that kind of special thing of
5:46
PIE, has historically been women's work?
5:50
I just got asked that the other day.
5:52
And then I kind of argued and said, well, there's lots of men
5:54
making pie now too, you know, So that's true.
5:58
That's something that I learned by making the film is that there
6:00
are also a lot of men that make pie.
6:03
And it is, you know, associated with like at least in Iowa with
6:07
the church ladies, not church men, but the ladies, you know,
6:11
and you know, the farm wives, housewives, you know, pies are
6:18
taken to fundraisers. Pollocks.
6:20
It's it is usually the women. I mean, that's what we see face
6:22
value. But if you dig a little deeper,
6:24
there's also a lot of men making the pie.
6:26
But but you know, it's like like like in Iowa.
6:29
I think what makes it so sort of closely associated, associated
6:34
with Iowa is the farm wives like they would.
6:37
I heard a lot of stories about, Oh yeah, you know, my grandma
6:40
used to take pies out to the field and feed the farmers at
6:44
lunchtime. You know, women don't do that
6:46
anymore. Generally, the guys come home
6:49
for lunch, make their own damn lunch, you know?
6:52
But back in the day, you know, that was just sitting.
6:55
The women made the pies and took them out to the field and fed
6:58
the men and or that was like field, but any office or
7:01
whatever, you know. That was like the trade off,
7:04
right? Like your financial you're
7:06
giving me financial care. I'm supporting you with the
7:08
emotional, nourishing care and food that.
7:11
You love food that makes you happy, food that gets you
7:14
excited, you know, like, and that's the thing though.
7:17
It's this exchange where if you bring a pie to somebody and
7:21
they're like, oh, I look so good and they love it.
7:23
And you know, they love it, you know, and then you see them
7:26
happy, that makes you happy. And it's just this like really
7:29
beautiful, warm exchange of kindness and generosity.
7:33
Like, I know you like this pie, so I made it for you, right?
7:37
And then it makes everybody's day better.
7:39
Like the farmers in the field, for example, if they're swing
7:42
their butts off out there and then somebody brings them the
7:44
pie, it's like you win some bonus points for that.
7:48
Quick pause, because if you're listening to Roar, I have a
7:51
feeling you're exactly the kind of person I write for.
7:53
I send out a Substack newsletter where I go a little deeper, more
7:57
personal stories, behind the scenes thoughts, and honestly,
8:00
some of the things we don't always say out loud here.
8:02
If you want to stay connected between episodes, you can find
8:05
it at Roar with danielledavies.substack.com.
8:09
I'd love to have you there. And now back to your regularly
8:12
scheduled podcast. You talked about to the effort
8:17
like that means something. And I always for me.
8:20
So I didn't grow up with a lot of pie.
8:22
I mean, I love pie and I do have a great pie story, but I did not
8:26
grow up like my mom is half Italian, my dad's or my mom's
8:30
Italian, my dad's Irish. So I grew up with like all the
8:32
steak and potatoes dishes of the world and like a million
8:35
different Italian cookies. And so like we have a special
8:39
Italian cookie that we make every year and it reminds me of
8:41
my grandmother. And this is her rolling pin.
8:43
And we do all these things and it's the labor of those cookies.
8:48
Some people don't even like the cookies, but it's the amount of
8:51
work. And I think even like with pie,
8:53
right, it's, it's the effort. And I always relate it to
8:57
mixtapes. Remember mixtapes, like if
9:00
somebody made you a good mixtape that was effort like that took
9:04
time. You're hitting start and stop.
9:06
You're waiting for the right song.
9:08
You might call into the DJ to have them play a song.
9:12
So these things are transformed from just food or things to like
9:18
a form of care. When you were making Piowa, did
9:22
you see that more than you already see it doing like
9:25
cookbooks and, you know, serving pie?
9:28
Did you already? Start to yeah no, that was what
9:31
the whole film was really about was showing care for others, you
9:36
know ultimately. And so, yes, I mean, I was just
9:40
inundated with all those stories of, of goodness and kindness and
9:44
generosity, you know, people making pies specifically just to
9:47
give it away, you know, for Thanksgiving or, you know, like
9:52
I said, for the fundraisers, you see all these people coming
9:54
together to volunteer to make pies, you know, to support their
9:58
town. So, yeah, I mean, every, I think
10:02
every single story had some sense of care for others in it.
10:07
And absolutely. And I think that's what makes
10:09
the film so meaningful to people, why it's resonating,
10:13
because it's like, no, if we would all just do one thing to
10:16
show somebody else that we care, you know, that our world would
10:20
be in a much better place. Like I'm, and I mean, I'm
10:23
quoting somebody else from the film who said that, but I
10:25
believe that also, you know, it's just, it doesn't take much.
10:29
It just like, go make somebody a pie.
10:32
And then also, as you saw in the film, the food editor from
10:35
Better Homes and Gardens. You know, the Red Plaid
10:38
cookbook. Yes.
10:39
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, and she even says even if
10:42
you have to use a cheater crust. And I love how she did the air
10:46
quotes. You know, I, I had, I worked
10:48
with an editor on part of this and I said, oh, you got to, you
10:50
got to show we're doing the air quotes 'cause that's a cheater
10:53
crust, you know. Oh, and.
10:55
I love the. Emphasis right?
10:57
But yeah. Doesn't matter.
10:58
The fact is you're going in the kitchen and making somebody for
11:01
somebody else, you know, to show them that you care.
11:03
So it's a. It's just.
11:06
It's a simple thing you can do and.
11:09
And it's effort, but it's a it's effort, but it's not like a
11:12
tremendous amount. It's not like building a house.
11:13
Like it's not building a house. You don't have to give
11:15
everything. You know, part of the reason
11:17
that I started this podcast is because I wanted to show that
11:20
women, the different ways women support other women and that it
11:24
does like that advocacy doesn't mean you have to just show up
11:28
somewhere with a picket sign. And you know, there are a
11:31
million ways. Like I, I hear women and they'll
11:33
say I want to make a change, but I don't want to run for office.
11:36
And like, well, there's a million things you could do.
11:39
You could write a poem, you could bake a pie.
11:41
You could do. There's so many ways to.
11:43
Knit a Red Hat. Yes, you could.
11:45
Yes, you could do that. There's so many ways.
11:47
That's your next, that's your next documentary.
11:49
There's so many ways to make a a difference in people's lives in
11:54
a positive way. And I just thought the way you
11:58
portrayed it and showing these ladies and like these everybody
12:02
has to watch this film showing these ladies and like these
12:05
tables just full of pies and like sometimes their whole pie.
12:08
Sometimes you see the slices and people coming up and, and I'm
12:10
like, and they're, I'm getting off topic, but I want to say
12:14
also, I loved the idea. And I do feel like this is a
12:19
very, I mean, yes, there are men who cook.
12:23
Don't get me wrong. My own husband is a great cook
12:25
and he makes, he's been making dinner a lot and I'm very happy
12:29
about it. But but he's not necessarily
12:33
resourceful in the way where I'm like, well, there's a little bit
12:36
of this. We should do this.
12:37
So one of the things that I really loved about Piowa was the
12:42
Raisin sour cream pie. And the idea and people who are
12:47
listening might be like, because at first I was like, oh, but
12:50
then I saw it. It kind of almost reminded me of
12:52
a rice pudding, like the way that it looked And I was like, I
12:56
think I could try that pie. But the idea that, you know,
13:00
these are things that were plentiful when there wasn't
13:03
fresh fruit, you know, you had dried grapes and you had sour
13:08
cream. It's dairy farms like they made
13:10
do and and learning to make do. And could you speak to that at
13:15
all about women's ability or especially anybody who's like a
13:20
nurturer or caregivers ability to kind of adapt and and just
13:26
use the resources available, which I feel like is just so
13:29
much of pie? Right.
13:31
And that's that's what some of the older women in the film
13:33
talked about, is that, you know, that's all they had in the
13:37
cupboard back then. Or they didn't want to.
13:39
Like they, like you said, they didn't want to be wasteful.
13:41
That's why the sour cream Raisin pie has a meringue top because
13:44
they use the egg yolks in the pudding.
13:46
And then so they save the egg whites for the top.
13:48
Yeah. I mean, that that was, I think
13:51
they didn't have money. They didn't have grocery stores,
13:54
you know, they didn't have what do you call the Amazon Prime or
13:57
DoorDash or whatever the hell, you know, like they, I, I,
14:00
that's one of the things I talk about a lot when I teach pie
14:02
classes. And like, you know, The Pioneers
14:05
made pie right in their wagon trains traveling across our
14:10
continent without refrigeration, without big ovens.
14:13
You know, they had Dutch ovens. They cooked over campfires and
14:17
put coals on top of the lid. And you know, I think the pie
14:21
Harkins back to that, you know, of really having to make do not
14:25
just with ingredients, but with everything.
14:27
Like, you know, we have these recipes now that are so fussy
14:31
and it irks me because it's like you don't have to do it that
14:37
way. Our ancestors didn't do it that
14:39
way. They didn't have all these
14:40
conveniences that we have. So let's try to just keep it
14:43
simple. And I feel like there's a real
14:45
lesson in that, you know, from making do with what you have,
14:50
you know, if you, I don't know, there's always a substitute,
14:55
right? And, and anything could go in a
14:57
pie crust. So that's, that's the other
15:00
thing about pie, absolutely anything sweet, savoury, any
15:04
combination of anything. So this, the versatility of it
15:08
is really lends itself to improvisation or, you know,
15:12
using whatever you have on hand. And I think, I don't know, I'm,
15:17
I'm practical that way myself. So I, I don't like it when
15:20
people preach about you have to use this fancy brand of butter
15:23
or, you know, your fruit has to be just so.
15:26
And it's like, no, it doesn't, you know, like go pick the
15:28
apples in your backyard, even if they have worms in them, you
15:31
know, you cut around them. That's what we do.
15:34
And I, and, you know, and living here on a farm in Iowa, it's,
15:39
it's well, with the people I live with around me, it is like
15:43
that, you know, they are still making do with things, which I
15:46
appreciate. I mean, the nearest grocery
15:48
store is 1/2 hour away. That's not easy to get to when
15:52
you're when you have, you know, a foot of snow on the ground.
15:55
Yeah, or when you need just like a simple, you know, you forget
15:57
two things, right? Like you got to do that.
16:00
You're. Going to have to find something
16:02
else. So and you know, I've been
16:04
living, I've been living in rural Iowa now since 2010.
16:08
So I have really learned different a different way of
16:12
life, you know, in terms of shopping and and making do,
16:17
improvising all that. So go or going without.
16:20
This is like way esoteric and not at all what I plan to ask.
16:24
But you know, you have such a unique cultural viewpoint.
16:28
Your lens is because you're back and forth between Iowa, where
16:31
you're on a farm, and LA, where that is not what people think of
16:35
when they think of LA. Like they're not thinking of
16:37
farms. And you weren't really, and you
16:39
were in San Francisco. So even just like in this
16:42
cultural moment that we're happening to have right now,
16:45
which is obviously uniquely terrifying time in 2026, how can
16:51
things like as simple as pie help?
16:54
And I hope I'm not making that sound too simple because I don't
16:58
mean it to be like too simple. But I feel like there's so much
17:02
running and we have so much focus on the problems of the
17:07
world and rightfully so because it's a hot mess.
17:10
But but I feel like there's nothing very slow going on.
17:15
You know, like I, I intended to send a letter to somebody this
17:19
morning and I got a text before I got it back.
17:21
And I actually was going to write a handwritten note.
17:22
It was a thank you note and somebody texted the thank you
17:25
from somebody else. So I just joined on.
17:26
I'm like, well, you're right, forget the note.
17:28
I'm going to just cut to the chase here and thank you.
17:31
But I was like, the note would have been so much more
17:33
meaningful. You can still.
17:34
Write the note. I can still write the note and I
17:36
probably. Should still write the note.
17:38
Yeah, I would still write the note.
17:40
And that's like a homemade pie. And people appreciate it and it
17:43
it really means something. And even if you already said
17:46
thank you via text, doesn't mean you can't still write the note.
17:50
And that's what I was going to say, like culturally, do you
17:52
feel like it's these simple things that can help us or how
17:56
much do you think they can help us?
17:58
Well, I have a very recent example.
18:00
I just did a screening in Newport Beach, CA.
18:04
OK, the land of yachts and wealth, you know, And I was
18:11
really nervous that people wouldn't come, that they
18:14
wouldn't have that, like, deep appreciation for pie.
18:17
You know, this is a film about pie in Iowa.
18:20
Why would they come? So we sold so many tickets and
18:26
people showed up with homemade pies to share with others after
18:31
the film. So that's become this part of
18:33
this phenomenon of Piowa where it's a community gathering
18:38
event. People are lonely, they're
18:39
isolated, they want to slow down, they don't know how.
18:43
And this is a chance for them to say, you know what, I'm going to
18:45
make a pie and bring it to this film and participate and, and
18:50
then share it with the audience afterwards.
18:52
So we had like, I don't even know how many.
18:54
We must have had at least 40 pies.
18:57
Yeah, well made. People showed up with their
18:59
little baskets. And I was so surprised and so,
19:04
so excited about how the screening went because I don't
19:08
know, people showed up that were like, well, my grandparents were
19:12
from Iowa, my great grandpa. So there, there was some like
19:14
Iowa root thing. And it did just brought out
19:18
something in them of like, And also by the way, when I'm in LA
19:21
and I tell people, well, my, you know, I also live on a farm in
19:24
Iowa, you should see their face. Oh, that just sounds so great.
19:28
You know, So I just feel like there's this longing for more
19:31
simplicity. And I feel like I've been able
19:35
to convey that not only just by making the film and showing it,
19:38
but but these screenings that are bringing people together in
19:41
real life and sharing pie afterward.
19:45
Like hanging around. They don't just take off after
19:48
the film ends. They stay, they eat pie, they
19:51
tell. Everyone's got a pie story.
19:52
You already told me that you've got a pie story, so I'm waiting
19:55
for it. But everyone's got a pie story.
19:57
It's amazing. And it's just been so.
20:03
I don't know, like life affirming, you know, and people
20:06
are just full of compliments when they come out because they
20:08
just, oh, this made me feel so good.
20:10
This gives me hope for humanity. It just reminds you that there's
20:13
kindness in the world. And, you know, and there's a
20:17
full range of people represented in this film, young to old,
20:21
every ethnicity, you know, I, it just shows you the, the, the
20:26
broad scope of this one subject of this one dish that connects
20:31
us, you know, and it's something like we can all agree on in a
20:34
time where we're so divided. But well, guess what?
20:36
We all still love pie. Let's get together and eat pie
20:39
and share pie and, and that's it.
20:41
I mean, there's. It's crazy.
20:43
You have to, you actually say that because it's like, I was
20:45
just reading an opinion piece. I want to say it was David
20:49
Brooks. I think he was, I think it's him
20:51
who was an opinion columnist with The New York Times and he's
20:55
A and he's retiring. And he was saying that over the
20:58
course of his career, one of the things that alarmed him, you
21:01
know, there was good and bad. But one of the things that
21:03
alarmed him is there was, there is such a disconnect right now
21:07
of alignment in terms of good or bad.
21:13
This is but but like, it might be as easy as π but it's like if
21:18
π is 1 universal truth. And we can say, OK, let's just
21:24
start here. We all like pie, some kind of
21:27
pie, right? Like we all like pie now.
21:30
Like what's the next thing we have in common?
21:32
You know, it's just that's why I didn't mean to make the question
21:36
so big, but it or so heavy. But I feel like even with this
21:40
kind of simple conversation, it's so much more than that,
21:43
especially now, you know, I feel like you really managed to
21:45
convey that in the film as well. Well, it was important to me and
21:49
I'm glad it came through, you know, and it was like, these are
21:52
other people's words, you know, everything I would have liked to
21:54
have said, but it's so much stronger coming from this whole
21:57
assortment of people. But I would add one more thing.
22:00
I mean, first of all, I think this is a really important
22:02
subject, but a little aside from that, because I always say pie
22:06
is a metaphor. So like, if we can all agree on
22:08
pie, maybe we can agree on find something else we can agree on.
22:11
It's a starting point. But also in teaching pie
22:14
classes, people are really afraid to make pie crust.
22:17
They think it's really hard and they're just they're fearful.
22:20
And so when I so when I teach a class and I'm really strict, I
22:28
can walk around with my rolling pin.
22:30
If you if you overwork that door, no, I'm going to you know,
22:33
I'm you're going to, you're going to be sorry, I got I got
22:36
not. I think so.
22:37
Right, right. So, so the pies always turn out
22:42
because I am so vigilant, you know, I'm just keeping a really
22:45
close eye on everybody and they all the, all the pies all have
22:48
100% success record. And my thing is, if you can get
22:55
past your fear of making the pie, then maybe you can get past
22:59
the fear of doing something else that's like the entry.
23:02
And then you go, well, I made a pie.
23:03
Maybe I could also do, you know, fill in the blank, right.
23:06
So that's to your point of if we can all agree on pie, maybe we
23:09
can find other things to agree on.
23:10
But if we can get over our fear of making pie dough, we can also
23:14
get over a fear of other things. So it's, that's why pie just
23:17
keeps bringing me back. It's such a great metaphor for
23:19
so many things. It's a, it's a great teaching
23:22
tool. It's a great, I don't know, just
23:26
it's, it's a great symbol of so many things.
23:30
Well, and I feel like, you know, as anybody who's a care, it's,
23:36
it's storytelling too. Like you're seeing the metaphor
23:38
and you are a storyteller and you're also a Baker and a pie
23:41
Baker now. A pie expert and a documentary.
23:44
Documentary director, producer, the whole 9 yards.
23:48
You create whatever. I don't.
23:51
Know. I just want the world to be a
23:53
better place. I don't care what you call me.
23:55
I'm just out there like trying to use my voice and my
23:57
creativity and, and speak my truth and encourage people to
24:02
be, you know, just to be more generous and think of others.
24:05
Don't be so fucking selfish. Oops, sorry.
24:08
You're totally fine like the. Grammys, you know, they have to
24:10
believe. You're going to believe me.
24:12
But yeah, I don't know. It's just like, really think of
24:15
other people, not just yourself, you know?
24:18
And Pi π symbolizes that just by its virtue of it's meant to be
24:21
shared, right? I love that, but I and I love
24:24
that you've recognized the storytelling aspect of π and
24:28
like helped other people to be able to do that too.
24:31
And that and like you're like everybody has a π story.
24:34
I mean, it's, it's kind of like any type of historical knowledge
24:40
that we used to get was passed down.
24:42
And it's so often like pass down while you're talking, while
24:46
you're doing something in the kitchen.
24:48
And this is like it's the item itself, right?
24:51
It's the pie. It's the tangible thing.
24:52
You've made that, but it's also the conversations that are
24:55
happening over it, around it. And so I just think it's a great
25:00
storytelling metaphor, like you said, so.
25:04
I never, I never seem to get tired of it.
25:07
You know, that's, that's what the I have tried to get away
25:10
from the subject a few times and I go, have you?
25:12
Well, I'm like, maybe I should try.
25:14
I'm a Gemini. I have to like, you know, try
25:16
new things, challenge myself. I mean, so rather than find a
25:21
new subject, I'm like, the subject is still so compelling,
25:26
why not find a new medium for it?
25:27
And that's why I switched from books to film because I'm like,
25:30
I need a new challenge. And yeah, so wait.
25:34
And what was that like, by the way to transition into that?
25:37
And that's like another thing to talk about too, because you're,
25:42
you know, this foray into this, a lot of times I think people
25:44
think, oh, I'd love to, I'd love to do this, but I already have
25:48
this career. I don't know what I'm doing.
25:49
I don't know how to make money doing and I don't know how to
25:51
support it. So that's the over, that's the
25:53
overthinking stuff. I don't do, I don't do, I don't
25:57
overthink. That's that's what stops
25:59
everybody. They overthink it.
26:01
They come up with all the reasons why.
26:03
No, it's not going to work, you know?
26:04
And I'm like, I don't know, I'm just going to try and see how
26:07
far I can go. And then I just kept going.
26:10
And once I committed, I was like, I'm not going to give up
26:12
on this. I'm going to finish it all the
26:13
way to the end. And I had written books before,
26:16
so I know how to do a longer term project, but you had to
26:20
learn everything. But that's kind of what I
26:22
wanted. And also just some back story.
26:25
I've been trying to sell a docu series about pie.
26:30
Oh, get out of here. Since 2010.
26:33
OK, that's a long time ago and Hollywood just wants a baking
26:39
competition. Like another baking competition,
26:42
really. Or they want a celebrity host.
26:45
And I'm saying neither. And so then I was like, you know
26:48
what, I'm just going to make my own proof of concept and show
26:52
you what I'm talking about because you can't seem to
26:54
freaking understand that this is about everyday shining a light
26:57
on everyday people telling other people's stories.
27:00
And, and a lot of people when I was making the film said, Oh,
27:04
this should be more about your story.
27:05
And I said, if you want to know about my story, you can go read
27:08
my books. I've had lots of press.
27:10
You don't I I've done a TE DX talk.
27:12
I don't need to tell my story. This is other people's stories
27:14
and and there's so many great stories there as you saw in the
27:18
film and and that's only a fraction of them.
27:21
So so I just called up a whole bunch of film makers that I knew
27:26
and asked for advice. And then I started shooting some
27:30
things on my iPhone and then I hired some camera people.
27:34
And then next thing you know, it was like a full in, you know,
27:38
both feed in going around the state of Iowa to the bike ride
27:42
across Iowa. That's this annual bike ride,
27:44
500 mile bike ride across the state every year where people
27:48
come and they have team names, you know, like team pie hunter
27:51
and team no pie refused. They're just riding their bikes
27:56
so that they can eat pie all along the route because these
27:59
church ladies come out or you know, these organizations, the
28:02
Amish, you know, all these people have these pie stands
28:05
along the route. So it's a big pie event and then
28:07
the Iowa State Fair with the pie competition and pie on a stick,
28:11
which is really funny. And pie it's.
28:13
Crazy. And I have to say, like I didn't
28:15
know any of this history about pie.
28:17
I first of all, I had no idea. So for anybody listening, we
28:21
were Beth and I were introduced through another, a friend of
28:26
Beth's and who told me about this.
28:27
And one of the things she said is that you had gotten that
28:29
first job in Malibu at the bakery, basically because you
28:32
said you lived in Iowa. And so they associated that so
28:37
strongly with pie. I had no idea that it was like
28:40
Iowa and pie go together like peanut butter and Jelly.
28:42
I don't know. No, I mean the good bite, like a
28:45
lot of this stuff that's happened is just because I
28:46
blurted out, you know, without thinking like, oh, I think I'll
28:49
quit my.com job. I think I'll just go make pie
28:52
and then, you know, I go to the pie thing to get a well, I'll
28:55
make it for you. And then I'm from Iowa.
28:57
I don't know, I I just. No, but it's just a little.
29:02
Bit crazy about I. Think it's really, I think it's
29:05
whatever. It's great, but it is also like
29:07
more astute, I think than you even realize.
29:10
Like I think you're onto something, but it's happening at
29:12
some some like deep level where you're like, it's just me, but
29:15
no really you're onto like. No, I don't know, sometimes.
29:18
Sometimes I feel like, though, with making this film, because
29:21
it was hard, way harder than writing a book.
29:25
Way harder. And I had to learn how to edit
29:28
like Adobe Premiere Pro software that made me cry many, many
29:32
times and swear a lot. And my partner would hear, he'd
29:35
come home for lunch and he'd hear me up in my office.
29:37
You know, he knew, like, stay away.
29:41
So you did. All the editing.
29:42
I didn't do all the editing. I did a lot of the editing and I
29:45
ended up doing a lot of the shooting because some of the
29:48
camera people I hired did a very poor job and I was like, I'm not
29:51
going to pay money for this one. Also in IO, those old ladies,
29:56
they don't like a big camera crew, you know, they just, they
30:00
just freeze. They like they just completely
30:03
wouldn't talk, they wouldn't smile, they wouldn't tell me
30:06
anything. And I was like, Oh my God, what
30:07
am I going to do? But if you use the phone, it's
30:12
amazing that they, you know, they're used to it being having
30:17
a phone around, it's small, it's not like in their face and.
30:20
Grandchildren probably have. So then I could just run around
30:23
with my phone and I got really good footage that way.
30:25
So I was like, OK, But then the editing was definitely the hard
30:29
part because what do you do with all these stories?
30:32
How do you put them together? And everyone was like, oh,
30:35
what's your 3X structure? And I'm like, I don't have a 3X
30:37
structure. And it took months to figure out
30:41
what you know, and it's I it doesn't have to be a three act
30:44
structure, by the way. It's a theme based movie, but
30:47
there but a three act structure just sort of organically show
30:53
itself by like, oh, past, present, future, right.
30:56
Here's the the nostalgia aspect, the memories.
30:59
And then there's the what's happening now with all the
31:01
events. And then there's the future of
31:04
pie making with all these young people baking.
31:06
So it kind of just showed itself.
31:09
But with this project, never in my life have I ever felt like
31:14
the universe has my back like this.
31:16
Like every time I needed something and I was against the
31:20
wall, boom, it showed up. Whatever I needed showed up
31:24
every single time. And it's still happening.
31:27
It's crazy. Wait, tell me an example.
31:30
Well, I was out of money and then all of a sudden I got this
31:34
grant from the state of Iowa and it was like I didn't expect to
31:37
get it. And I was like thank you.
31:41
And I mean, I was just getting down to 0 in my production bank
31:47
account, so yeah. Oh.
31:49
My gosh, that's. Down to the wire and it just
31:52
happened again. I, you know, then I needed
31:54
somebody to do my what they call color correction, which, OK, not
31:58
a fun process. And by the way, the color you
32:01
pay thousands of dollars to have all the color like evened out in
32:04
your film and then it looks different on every single screen
32:08
everywhere. It's crazy.
32:10
Like it there's, I'm still like, I'm still having stress about
32:14
certain things about the film, but.
32:17
I'm sure because any, any editing experience that I've
32:20
had, even from doing a podcast has been like so painful and so
32:25
terrible. And I'm like, This is why.
32:28
Like they say that the average podcast only lasts 7 episodes.
32:30
I'm like, that's why, because. But once I got into it, I loved
32:34
it. That was actually one of my
32:36
favorite things looking back. It's like a jigsaw puzzle and
32:38
oh, maybe if I put this here or this song here or, you know, the
32:41
transition with this and I, it was, that's the Super creative
32:46
part. I think editors are very
32:47
underrated for what they can do. Yeah.
32:50
Do you think you'd ever do it again?
32:52
Oh, yeah. So if you would have asked me
32:54
that when this came out in June, I would have said no way.
32:59
Never. And then around Christmas, I was
33:04
just laying in bed and I was like, oh, well, what if I did
33:08
that story? And then I was like, what about
33:10
that other story? Next thing you know, I'm like,
33:12
wait a minute, are you thinking about doing another documentary?
33:15
You know, so like without even trying, you know, just the
33:19
subconscious or whatever woo woo stuff happens.
33:22
It's like, OK, we're ready to do the next one.
33:25
And you know, because I had made this as a proof of concept for
33:29
ATV series like the docu series or streaming, whatever, I don't
33:34
feel like I want to do that anymore.
33:35
I don't want that. I almost want to use the word
33:40
constraint. Like I don't want the constraint
33:42
of having to answer to like a studio or another production
33:45
company or, or a street, you know, like, no, this.
33:49
I love the autonomy of doing a documentary, working
33:53
independently. I call all the shots.
33:55
It's all on me. I, I, I like that and I can
33:59
handle that. I've proven that and I don't
34:02
need anybody's permission. So I'm thinking like my next one
34:06
would be like Piowa, but it would cover the whole United
34:09
States, like as a just, you know, show the geographical
34:14
range and definitely more stories, you know, from other
34:17
parts of the country. And I'm not saying I'd go to
34:19
every single state and, you know, but maybe every year,
34:22
every year, because I didn't say that every year I could do a
34:26
different one. No, I didn't say that.
34:28
It's not a series. It's just maybe I could do one
34:30
more and, you know, see where that leads.
34:33
I don't know, but there's definitely no pun intended, but
34:36
there definitely seems to be a hunger for this.
34:38
And I always think of this, there's these films, Warren
34:43
Miller ski films. They've been around for decades.
34:46
And I used to be a big skier, so and I lived in California and
34:49
I'd go to the Warren Miller film and it's like, it's an in person
34:53
thing where everyone comes once. It's not online.
34:56
It's interesting. So you go to the theater and all
34:58
the skiers, they have this love of skiing in common.
35:01
They come and watch the ski film and they have a new one every
35:04
year. And I mean, I'm sure they've got
35:06
lots of people working on this. So I'm just I'm just by myself,
35:10
but. For now.
35:12
Yeah. But I know I do need to hire
35:15
people, but I don't know that guy sort of see the pie film
35:19
like that kind of a phenomenon where everybody who loves pie,
35:23
they would love to get together every year and see the annual
35:25
pie film, right? Would that be fun?
35:27
And I've also been reading articles about, there's a, in
35:31
fact, Pam Redmond sent me an article about there's a, a
35:36
trend, if you will, to go back into the theatre, you know, to
35:41
in person events that have some kind of a common theme or a, you
35:46
know, a unifying thread something.
35:48
And I'm like, I'm doing that, you know, I'm, I'm ahead of the
35:51
trend. So or I'm right on trend?
35:53
Yes, you've been ahead of the trend.
35:55
You know, in the very beginning when we started talking, you
35:57
said about working in San Francisco with web stuff and how
36:01
you wanted something tactile. And I literally also worked in
36:04
San Francisco was doing working at a publishing company, which
36:07
isn't, but it was duringthe.com era.
36:10
So I think everybody was trying to like lean towards that the
36:12
early 2000s, not the dot, the beginning, the boom of the
36:15
beginning. But it just reminded me
36:19
recently, you know, I live in New Jersey.
36:21
So it gets really Gray. And I'm, as I get older, I
36:24
noticed like the darkness starts to affect me more and I don't,
36:28
I'm like, I need a like a dose of sunshine.
36:30
And so a couple years ago I bought myself one of those
36:33
little lamps that you're supposed to put yourself in
36:35
front of. And I really did never do it
36:37
because like I, I know it's still long enough to have myself
36:40
in front of the lamp. So I almost the other day
36:43
invested in these glasses that were several $100 and you put
36:48
them on for like the first half hour of your day and they're
36:50
like light. It's like a light to kind of
36:52
open your eyes and it emulates sunshine.
36:56
And then all of a sudden as I'm about to like hit the button to
36:59
like go on a payment plan by these glasses, I'm like, or you
37:03
could just go outside, you idiot.
37:04
Like, like just, I feel like we're just starting to have that
37:11
yearning to return to real life. Like not that any of these
37:17
things aren't real. I mean, I couldn't have a job of
37:19
any sort if there were no Internet.
37:21
Like I, I'm very grateful for the luxuries that technology has
37:27
brought me and I'm grateful that I can access the things I can
37:31
access, But I feel like we've stepped away so much from, you
37:36
know, the actual grass, like the actual like I was like, I'm
37:39
about to buy a device that emulates the very thing.
37:42
All I have to do is put on a coat to go feel on my face.
37:47
And I feel like that's a lot also of what Piowa does and, and
37:52
to do those in person, like, you know, you're talking about the
37:55
events or even rolling it out as a continued thing.
37:58
Think people miss community and people are lonely, like you
38:01
said. And it's we've also forgotten
38:05
how to get along a lot with people who are different than us
38:08
because we don't ever really have to see them.
38:10
You know what I mean? Like you don't have to.
38:13
There are a lot of ways to not leave your house.
38:16
Right. So yeah, I I definitely see
38:19
that. That's than one of the huge
38:22
draws of this film. And then the word of mouth,
38:24
because people feel good when they come and see it.
38:26
Then they want their friends to have that same experience.
38:28
And it is really fun when there's pie served afterward.
38:31
Oh, come on. Exactly.
38:33
Well, everybody's so hungry for pie after the film that they're
38:36
like, Oh my God, I'm desperate for pie.
38:38
It's like I can barely get through the Q&A because I'm
38:41
like, I know you guys know there's pie out there and
38:44
waiting for you in the lobby, so.
38:46
And all different people short. What's that?
38:49
And all different kinds like, well, and, and one more thing I
38:53
wanted to ask you. Well, a few more things, but
38:55
before I get to the actual pie because I feel like I feel like
38:58
I'm going to have to hang up with you and go to the grocery
39:00
store, get some butter. I should have had some here.
39:05
But you know, talking about you transitioning into this new
39:10
skill set and learning this new thing.
39:12
A lot of not a lot, but there's a section of your film where you
39:15
speak to some younger women who are leaving, leaving corporate
39:20
careers to open up their own pie shops.
39:22
And it's that it seems to be that also that autonomy.
39:28
What are you, how do you think about that shift?
39:31
Is it, are they stepping away from ambition?
39:33
You know, there's a lot of talk about the ambition gap.
39:35
Or are they redefining ambition? I think it's a number of things.
39:40
I think part of it is they want to do something real, you know,
39:45
they want to do something with their hands.
39:46
Like, like that was my reaction to leavingthe.com.
39:50
They want the autonomy, definitely.
39:53
And as far as ambition, no, it's really hard work to run a pie
39:57
shop. It's really hard work.
39:58
So you have to be ambitious. You have to still be ambitious
40:02
if you want to do a pie shop. There is a lot to it.
40:05
You know, it's not just, oh, I want to make some pies and
40:07
people will come. It's like you have to do the
40:09
marketing, you have to do the, you know, the ordering, the
40:12
it's, it's a lot. I had a little pie stand for
40:14
four years and it was. Oh, people would say, oh, it
40:18
must be fun to have just a little weekend business.
40:20
And I would just like, like, you know, steam would come out of my
40:24
head. I'm like, you have no idea.
40:26
I work seven days a week to do this little weekend business,
40:29
you know, So, yeah. So no, it's a it's a noble thing
40:33
that these people are doing that they're opening a pie shop.
40:37
But I mean, I still, I still see storefronts.
40:41
I go, oh, that'd be a cute pie shop.
40:43
And I still have my fantasies, you know, like, oh, I could, you
40:46
know, and I'm like, don't even think about that.
40:47
You're not, It's not going to happen.
40:49
I'm so bad at bookkeeping. I could never keep a pie shop
40:51
going. But it's that like that element,
40:54
like you said like that that well, you didn't say the words
40:57
risk taking element, but you did say like, don't even, you know,
41:00
pay attention to those questions because the self doubt will kind
41:03
of. Yeah, yeah, no, don't overthink
41:05
it. And yeah.
41:06
And my other, my other big saying is ignore the naysayers.
41:09
That's my big motto. They just people are going to
41:12
try to talk. Even if you don't talk yourself
41:14
out of it, other people will try to talk you out of it.
41:17
And I say you have to want to do it bad enough.
41:20
Anything in life, you have to want to make a film bad enough
41:22
to see it all the way through. If you want to write a book, you
41:25
have to want it bad enough to make it a priority.
41:27
You want to open a pie shop. And that's a business thing.
41:32
But yeah, I think it's, I think change is good.
41:35
I like it when people just go, I'm going to do something
41:37
different, you know, and I'm going to try something new and,
41:40
and something that maybe is more fulfilling than my corporate
41:43
job. Yeah, I love that.
41:45
And but by doing it yourself and and shining a spotlight on other
41:48
people, I think it gives women the permission to say, Hey, this
41:54
is, you know, it's not because there's always going to be
41:56
naysayers. There's always going to be
41:58
somebody who's like a practical job.
42:00
Like why would you leave that.com job?
42:02
It's practical. Look at the money you're making.
42:04
You can count on it. It's.
42:05
I'll never make that much money again, but I don't care.
42:07
It's fine. It wasn't about that money
42:10
wasn't wasn't making me happy. It was making me fat sitting at
42:13
that desk all the time. And I, you know, it's an outdoor
42:16
adventure website. And I'm like super athletic.
42:18
And then I'm like working so hard that I was like, this is
42:23
all backwards. So yeah.
42:25
Well, I feel like you in what you're doing is kind of giving
42:28
other women permission to step into something new.
42:31
Yeah, I. Do want to add, I started this
42:35
film at 61 years old. OK, so I am not a spring
42:39
chicken. I have, you know, I'm, I'm not
42:42
retiring anytime soon. I never retirement's never been
42:45
a word in my vocabulary. I my mom's 89.
42:48
She's still working. She's in Atlanta on a business
42:50
trip right now. You know, she's adorable, So.
42:53
And I mean, I'm sure that job is what's keeping her so sharp and
42:56
alive. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not too
42:58
old to make another film after this one.
43:00
But, you know, so I'm 63 now. And it's like, yeah, I'm not too
43:04
old. And to learn something new, for
43:06
one thing, to try something completely different.
43:09
And then hello, surprise, actually have success at it, you
43:13
know, like, wow, why didn't I did?
43:15
Why didn't I make a documentary when I was 40 instead of 60?
43:19
Is it you know, but here we are so but.
43:21
You gave so many people, you are giving so many people permission
43:25
to kind of think about it for their own lives.
43:28
Who gave you yours? Well, I think I've always been
43:33
that way. I went to a college that was
43:36
like a very hands on the Evergreen State College in
43:39
Olympia, WA, and you can sort of design your own curriculum
43:43
there. So if I had an idea of something
43:45
I wanted to do, I could create my own, you know, I, I would
43:52
propose that I would read these books, I would make write these
43:55
reports. This is what I would like almost
43:56
like a thesis, but undergrad, you know.
43:59
So that was a really great school for me because I am a
44:02
self starter that way. And also I don't like it when
44:05
people, if I have an idea and I want to do something, I don't
44:08
like it when people get in my way.
44:10
So I'm like, I'll find a way around, you know, and that's it.
44:13
Like Hollywood didn't want my π docu series, fine, I'll go make
44:17
my own. And now, ha ha ha.
44:19
You know, like, I mean, I don't mean it's spiteful like that.
44:24
I just like, look, you guys, I was trying to tell you and now
44:28
look, it is like taking off. So I'm waiting for them to call
44:31
me back and go, oh, sorry. We'll yeah, we'll take it now.
44:34
But I don't, I'm like, I don't know that I want that.
44:36
I don't want to have to answer to anybody.
44:37
So yeah, I don't know. That's just, but that's maybe
44:40
just so that's I I've always had a really good support system.
44:45
My parents always encouraged us to follow our bliss and all
44:48
that. So you know well it.
44:49
Sounds like your mom is pretty. Yeah, like much a trailblazer
44:52
too. Do you mind if I ask what she
44:54
does at 89? So she works for an organization
44:58
that it's basically they teach meditation, but it's called
45:02
centering prayer and it's through the Catholic Church,
45:04
sort of, sort of this doesn't have to be Catholic, but it's
45:07
like started by a monk, you know?
45:11
So yeah. So she she goes around and she's
45:16
a volunteer coordinator now. She used to plan their whole
45:19
national conference. And she said she's worked with
45:21
them for so many years. She's kind of like that, that
45:23
wise elder there now. And and she's on Zoom calls with
45:28
people from all over the world every day.
45:32
And it's like, who would have guessed, you know?
45:36
So yeah. Well, I feel like having a mom
45:39
like that would make it so there's not like you weren't
45:41
questioning or were you during making Paowa, were you ever
45:44
like, it's too late? Like you just said I should have
45:46
done it when I was 40. Did you ever?
45:48
Yeah. No, no, no.
45:49
I never felt it was too late. I was like, I'm going to fit.
45:52
It's actually my little thing that I do now.
45:55
And it's kind of sounds morbid, but I'm like, if I'm working on
45:58
a project and I feel like, you know, so many people are getting
46:02
cancer and dying. And I was like, if I had six
46:04
months left to live, if I got, if I got a diagnosis right now
46:07
and someone said I had six months left to live, I would
46:10
finish this film. You know, like that's and I, I
46:14
mean, I said that when I was writing my last book.
46:17
If I do nothing else before I die, I have to finish this book,
46:20
you know? Oh my gosh.
46:21
We I am like this too. And I know, but you know what?
46:24
That I, I say I'm like a Jack Russell terrier and you, you've
46:29
got a terrier. So you can relate, right?
46:31
I have like, I have like a terrier personality, willful and
46:34
I won't give up. I just won't give it up.
46:36
So yeah. But I love how you like frame it
46:39
to against like what you've got left, like in terms of what I
46:43
actually just was. A sense of urgency, right?
46:47
A sense of urgency because a lot of people will put it off.
46:50
I'm like, dude, if you want to write that book or do that
46:53
project or make that, do it now. Like what are you waiting for?
46:56
I, I, I definitely am like a do it now person and I don't even
47:00
have a bucket list because I've always done everything I like.
47:04
If I want to do it, I go do it. I, I just like, I don't put it
47:07
off because I don't know my, you know, I have my, I was married
47:10
and my husband died suddenly and unexpectedly at the age of 43.
47:14
So I think that's left a permanent mark on my psyche of
47:20
you don't, you cannot take it for granted.
47:22
So what are you going to do with this one precious life, right?
47:26
OK, real quick, if you're listening and thinking more
47:29
women should be hearing conversations like this, the
47:32
best way to support the show is just to follow or subscribe
47:35
wherever you are. It really does help it reach
47:37
more people. Thanks so much.
47:38
OK, back to the show. You know, and, and when you say
47:42
it's morbid and I understand because it sounds to other
47:44
people when you're like, well, I might have.
47:46
I mean, I've actually done it even with books like I love to
47:50
read. And many years ago I read
47:51
something that was saying, you know, if you do the math, like
47:54
how many books you'll you have left?
47:57
And that's when I, I used to never not finish a book.
48:01
But then when I read that, I did the math and I was like, OK, I
48:07
really, if I, if I go the longest that I think I'm going
48:10
to go, I only have if I read this many books a year, this is
48:15
how many books I have. I'm only reading books that have
48:18
really good reviews. And I have to, if I like I get
48:20
past a certain page, I let it go because I'm like, life is short
48:23
and I really love books and I'm not going to spend my time
48:26
reading books I don't like. Like you're not.
48:28
Obligated to finish it. No.
48:30
And I know that's such a simple example, but in everything, even
48:33
just going away to New York, I was just going, and it was
48:36
supposed to be below 0 when I went and I talked to my son and
48:39
I, you know, I'm profoundly lazy.
48:41
I, I would prefer to stay in my house.
48:45
I like to be comfortable. And it was going to be so cold.
48:48
I knew I was going to have to wear two pair of pants, 2
48:50
shirts, like everything was going to be doubled boots, many
48:52
socks. And my son was like, mom, you're
48:55
51 years old. He goes, what do you have 40
48:58
years left go to New York. And I was like, you're right,
49:01
you're absolutely right. Thank you for the perspective.
49:03
Like I appreciate that because I, I feel like I see it too.
49:07
And I everybody acknowledges that I guess on some level, but
49:12
I think some people are way better at being like, I have
49:14
plenty of time. I have plenty of time.
49:16
For me, I've always felt like a bit of a sense of urgency.
49:19
And so I appreciate that and I appreciate that you went and you
49:22
did it and it's awesome. So thank you.
49:25
You're welcome. So what will pie was like?
49:30
Just not just about pie. Obviously you're not going to
49:33
leave hungry. You're going to leave it feeling
49:34
uplifted and hopeful. What do you most want people,
49:39
women who have spent years feeding others to feel when they
49:43
watch it? That they're appreciated, you
49:47
know, that that what they're doing is giving love and the
49:51
world needs more of that. And that's the best thing you
49:53
could possibly do with your life, you know, so that they
49:57
would be appreciated for. For making that pie, making, you
50:00
know, making memories with their families or their friends and
50:03
making the world a better place by just baking a pie.
50:06
Yeah, that's. You absolutely.
50:10
Because it's funny you're saying it.
50:11
I'm literally like to be appreciated because that's what
50:13
you get when you watch it. You you do you actually as just
50:17
a mom. I felt appreciate as a mom who's
50:21
literally made two pies ever and also the cheater crust and and I
50:26
did make a judgment. Thank you.
50:28
I made a pie for Thanksgiving this year that I, I previously
50:32
made. That was my other pie.
50:33
That one was successful. I don't know what I was
50:35
thinking, but I didn't put anything on the bottom of the
50:37
pan of the cheater crust. And it was so, I mean, we were
50:41
like chiseling it out, but it was delicious.
50:44
But it was like a, a fail. As a mom who's not a pie Baker,
50:50
I also felt appreciated just the idea of feeding and nurturing as
50:56
love. OK, it's never a fail.
50:58
It's never a fail. The crust is a little hard.
51:01
Just people can eat around it. If you didn't put enough sugar
51:04
in it, just put some ice cream on it.
51:05
It's never a fail. The fact that you did it is
51:08
nobody really cares. You'd be surprised because
51:11
there's all these perfectionists out there that, you know, make
51:14
it intimidating for people to want to make a pie because,
51:16
well, it doesn't look perfect. It's not supposed to.
51:19
It's supposed to be imperfect. It's homemade.
51:22
You want it to have your signature on it.
51:25
And every pie I make is different.
51:28
I, I don't, there's no guarantee it's going to turn up and nobody
51:30
cares. They're just glad you made a
51:32
pie. So it's just like, you know,
51:35
that's what that guy in the film says.
51:36
The message is just keep baking. Keep baking.
51:40
What So tell me, do you have a favorite pie story that's come
51:43
out of let's not say that the the film specifically, because
51:47
I'm sure you keep getting asked, but like that's come out of the
51:51
conversations you've had during the screenings, their favorite
51:54
pie story. And also, what's your favorite
51:56
pie? Dad's was banana cream.
51:59
I would go back to that screening.
52:02
Well, OK, I do have, I have two stories.
52:04
First of all, that screening in Newport Beach totally blew my
52:07
mind that that all these people showed 250 people showed up, you
52:11
know, many of them bringing pies and staying.
52:13
And I was like, I didn't expect that in that environment.
52:16
So that was a big thing for me. Absolutely.
52:19
My very, very first screening was in a town of 200, and it was
52:24
actually in Minnesota, not Iowa, because a friend of mine lives
52:27
up there and runs an Art Center, and he invited me up and there
52:31
were only 22 people at the screening.
52:33
It was a very, very cold, Not cold.
52:36
What am I saying? It wasn't a cold night, but it
52:37
felt like a cold night. It was June.
52:39
Well, it was June in northern Minnesota.
52:40
Yeah, I guess it was cold. It was actually, it was cold,
52:43
come to think of it, for summer. And so we, I did the Q&A
52:48
afterward. We didn't have plans to serve
52:51
pie. I mean, that was so early on in
52:53
my venture and I think we talked about it, but it didn't happen.
52:56
Like I would have had to go up there a couple days early and
52:58
organize a baking thing. And I, I don't know.
53:01
But so in the Q&A, this lady says, oh, I have old lady like
53:06
90, I don't know, she's in her 80s maybe.
53:09
She stands up in the Q&A and she goes, well, I have two pies
53:13
cooling at home right now and rhubarb custard.
53:18
She went home and got them and came back and served her pies to
53:24
the audience. And so we all got pie afterward.
53:27
And it was, that was one of the most amazing things.
53:31
And that's from the start. Like the very, very first
53:34
screening was like, Oh my God, this woman went home and got her
53:39
pies to share. They were still warm.
53:42
It was some of the best pie I've ever had.
53:46
And my only regret is I had a tiny piece cuz, you know, I
53:49
wanted like, I should have had a bigger piece.
53:52
I just regret. I want another piece of that
53:55
pie. I'm still thinking about it.
53:57
But yeah, it was so sweet. And somebody else went out and
54:00
got ice cream, you know, and it was just like, Oh my God, you
54:03
people. And that's the film, you know,
54:06
that's like, that's the pie. That's what pie does.
54:08
That's what these stories do. And like a lot of people say,
54:11
oh, I want, I want to do a pie giveaway like this.
54:13
Eat free pie in the film. How do I do that here?
54:16
I put them in touch, you know, Oh, I like that program where
54:18
they teach teen girls pie making skills and business skills and
54:25
customer service skills, marketing skills, all that.
54:27
And how, you know, it's a program.
54:29
Can you do you think that we could do that program in our
54:31
area? So like, there's a lot of this
54:33
kind of ripple effect with the film, which is very exciting for
54:39
me to see. Like, very fulfilling to know
54:41
that people are really taking something away from it and
54:45
wanting to implement something similar in their own community.
54:49
It's, it's such a film to have a conversation over π about like
54:54
it's, I watched it by myself, which, and I thoroughly enjoyed
54:57
it, but I could see it being so meaningful to have these
55:02
connections, especially with different generations in and,
55:05
you know, and hearing the stories about even even when it
55:09
goes out of pie. And you just like I said, like
55:11
my mom with these Italian cookies, like, you know, it,
55:15
it's the things that we pass on to each other and the things we
55:18
get out of nurturing. And I loved it.
55:21
So thank you. And and last thing though, what
55:23
is your favorite pie? I have so many favorite pies,
55:28
but I could say it's kind of seasonal depending, but OK.
55:32
OK. Well, in the summer, Peach
55:34
crumble is number one. Well, no, spring is strawberry
55:38
rhubarb, then Peach crumble. And then in the fall, I would
55:43
say, well, I get cravings for pumpkin pie.
55:46
I know it's really simple, but just that.
55:48
And then an apple, of course. But and then right now it's
55:53
winter. So my partner's favorite pie is
55:56
French silk pie, which is chocolate with a whipped cream
56:00
on top. And it's amazing.
56:02
And so yeah, that's Next up on the favorite pie list.
56:05
But I always say that Apple is like if I had to choose one, it
56:09
would be Apple because that's the one I never get tired of.
56:12
Oh man, you're making me want pie.
56:14
Yeah. No, it's not the thing.
56:16
I mean, I actually have apples here at home, so I I have them
56:20
out on the counter sitting in a pie dish ready to make an apple
56:23
pie. So you will just.
56:24
Go make a pie right now. Possibly if you want.
56:27
It will be nothing. You're just going to make a pie.
56:30
Yeah, for like, for no reason. You mean like yes?
56:32
Yes, it's just going to well. I told my partner I go, I really
56:36
should share some of this with his sister-in-law.
56:38
She's got her leg in a cast or a brace because she had broke her
56:42
kneecap. And and then I haven't seen my
56:44
neighbor who lives a mile and a half down.
56:46
I haven't seen her for a month. So I'm like, oh, I should take
56:49
her a piece. And then I was like, or we could
56:52
just eat it ourselves. I don't know.
56:56
Sometimes you just need pie. Sometimes it just feels good to
56:58
make the pie. And then you never know who
57:00
might stop by and hey, we want a piece of pie, you know?
57:03
So yeah, I don't know. It's always better to share it.
57:06
So I'm sure at least one or two of those pieces will make it out
57:11
of the house to somebody else. That's awesome that thank you so
57:14
much for being here. I'm going to make sure that in
57:15
the show notes, we have everything about where people
57:18
can watch Piowa, where it's screening, where they can learn
57:21
more about more about you since Piowa isn't just your story and
57:24
also get the cookbooks. Thank you.
57:27
No, thank you so much for being here.
57:28
I really appreciate it. It's.
57:30
Fun talking to you. You too.
57:33
A huge thanks to Beth Howard. I especially love the way she
57:36
talked about following something small and something creative and
57:40
letting it become meaningful without forcing it to be what we
57:43
think it's supposed to be. And next week, we're digging
57:46
into a different kind of pressure, the expectations
57:49
placed on parents and especially moms, and how much of what we
57:53
think we're supposed to do might not actually be serving us or
57:56
our kids with Jessica Leahy. In the meantime, if this episode
58:00
inspired you to follow your own passion or to bake or eat a pie,
58:03
share it with a friend. That's how these conversations
58:06
keep going. See you next week on ROAR.