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Discovering Bitcoin with Jeremy Cohen · Discovering Bitcoin

• 0:00
  At some point, Bitcoin stops being a chart and starts to
• 0:03
  become a question. What is money?
• 0:07
  Who do I trust? What do I trust?
• 0:10
  Hard block doesn't answer those questions for you.
• 0:12
  They just give you a clean, transparent way to explore them.
• 0:18
  Yeah, I see the world through an entirely different lens.
• 0:22
  It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you
• 0:25
  hope. I think like we're squandering
• 0:28
  our energy, our life force, so. Bitcoin is changing that.
• 0:32
  For me this coin is like it's healing energy.
• 0:36
  It gives you a kind of of a stand feeling, right?
• 0:43
  Well, deep and deep and deep and the immortal.
• 0:46
  Words of the doors, the time to hesitate us through.
• 1:17
  Jeremy, how's it going, man? DJ very good Sir.
• 1:22
  Thank you for the opportunity. Good to be on your pod.
• 1:25
  Yeah, dude, it's awesome. I, I said over the, the holiday
• 1:30
  Christmas break that, you know, anyone and everyone is welcome
• 1:36
  to come on this pod. And I don't actually know if you
• 1:39
  have a Twitter instance or even an Auster instance.
• 1:42
  I I think maybe you do have an Auster instance actually, but we
• 1:45
  didn't. Meet I do, yeah.
• 1:46
  Online. Like most of my other guests, we
• 1:52
  met in real life IRL in meat space.
• 1:58
  Meat space. That's what they call it.
• 2:01
  And Yeah, and, and. And so, you know, this is a
• 2:04
  fortuitous conversation because, I mean, obviously we're going to
• 2:09
  unpack your journey of discovering Bitcoin, but one of
• 2:12
  the things that initiated all of this was your presentation at a
• 2:17
  recent Bush bash, which we we will definitely unpack.
• 2:21
  But all that is to say, I think you're a rare bird earth mum.
• 2:27
  Actually last week was a guest that I first met in meatspace
• 2:32
  also, however, so a bit of a bit of a theme here, but awesome.
• 2:37
  Thanks for coming on man. Well, thank you, Sir, back right
• 2:42
  back at you and yeah, good point about the meat space thing as
• 2:45
  well. And, you know, we took, you
• 2:46
  know, we can let's shout out to the Bush bash, which is what a
• 2:51
  what a fantastic opportunity for us Bitcoiners to actually meet
• 2:57
  in meat backs, you know, because I think I, I take your point
• 3:01
  that, you know, sometimes we can be a little bit digital only and
• 3:06
  we're looking for comrades or, you know, like kindred kindred
• 3:09
  souls all around the world. And we find them.
• 3:11
  But but maybe not so much as we would like to meet people in
• 3:16
  real life. And that's, and I, I've heard
• 3:18
  you talk about Bush bashes before and I and how great they
• 3:21
  are to actually meet all of these, you know, like, as I say,
• 3:25
  kindred souls in, in real life. And yeah, it's really special
• 3:28
  because we often do feel a bit isolated, don't we?
• 3:31
  Almost definitely you can have a conversation and I've had
• 3:35
  conversations on this pod where at the end I'm completely juiced
• 3:39
  and energized and, you know, want to kind of go out and annoy
• 3:43
  whoever's still up, you know, or whatever, what like fantastic
• 3:49
  conversation we just had or whatever.
• 3:51
  And the disconnect dies effectively as soon as you hang
• 3:54
  up the, the call. And it's sort of, you know, goes
• 3:58
  in spits and spits if you're noting or tweeting or whatever
• 4:03
  it is back and forth online. But you know, I mean, that's,
• 4:08
  that's OK as well because everything is transient and, and
• 4:12
  that sort of thing. But when you do have that, that
• 4:17
  space, that shared space in real life, in a, in a, in a place,
• 4:24
  you know, you, you just, you're able to, I don't know, you just
• 4:30
  share energy quite, quite uniquely.
• 4:32
  I, I, I think there's an energy that can be shared on a call
• 4:35
  like this, but I, I think it's greater.
• 4:39
  It's sort of like that radiation.
• 4:41
  I don't know, like it just those push bashes are something else.
• 4:44
  And they're such a unique experience in that there's no
• 4:48
  advertising, there's no sponsorships or, or any kind of
• 4:52
  thing like that. It's all completely pleb donated
• 4:54
  pleb run and and there's a there's an authenticity when you
• 5:01
  attend something like that and there's very little room for
• 5:03
  dickheads I think is my point. 100% agree.
• 5:09
  And yeah, I think you know, just to, you know, to further the
• 5:12
  point, you know, I think we do. You know, if you're a bitcoiner,
• 5:15
  you're often, not always, but often you've been questioning
• 5:19
  other domains of life and modern culture and society, politics,
• 5:25
  et cetera, philosophy, whatever society.
• 5:30
  And yeah, it can be a bit lonely, can't it?
• 5:33
  To, you know, to, you know, be, be a, be a, a contrarian or a
• 5:42
  Bitcoiner in a world of people that are still just plugged into
• 5:47
  all of the old Fiat way of thinking and doing and, and
• 5:52
  economics. And so I think we're all starved
• 5:54
  for the connection with like minded individuals that we get
• 5:59
  in, in, in the Bush bashers, you know, and I I would probably
• 6:03
  extend to an extent, I haven't been to a lot of other Bitcoin
• 6:07
  meetups, but it probably is a little bit at least a little bit
• 6:10
  the same there too. But that's, you know, it's one
• 6:12
  of the one of the reasons why I love the Bush bashers, because I
• 6:15
  don't get to talk about this stuff in the in the meats in the
• 6:20
  general kind of normy world, you know?
• 6:23
  Yeah. Yeah, you, you.
• 6:25
  It's it well, and given your line of work as well, which
• 6:30
  which is interesting, I guess we'll I don't know, we'll just
• 6:34
  go with the flow here. Your line of work sure is
• 6:39
  effectively you're a counsellor, right?
• 6:41
  And and you're, you're practicing is the psychiatrist,
• 6:47
  psychologist, what's the technique?
• 6:49
  I'm, I'm an accredited, yeah, my, my official credential is
• 6:53
  accredited mental health social worker.
• 6:55
  Right. So yeah, like I'm, I'm an
• 6:58
  accredited psychotherapist. There you are.
• 7:02
  Yeah. So it's like a yeah.
• 7:03
  Yep, Yep. Yeah, so.
• 7:05
  And and with that, my immediate thought goes, you must listen to
• 7:11
  people's problems most of the day, right?
• 7:15
  Yeah. Is that, is that wrong or right?
• 7:17
  I don't know. No, that's that.
• 7:19
  Yeah. That's pretty.
• 7:20
  That's pretty much it. Yeah.
• 7:21
  Yeah, I do, you know, as a therapist and counselor, I, I
• 7:25
  work with, you know, clients and patients, Yeah.
• 7:29
  On, you know, often challenges mental health stuff.
• 7:35
  Yeah. And, you know, we, we, we
• 7:39
  collaborate me and my client to try and help them transcend
• 7:44
  whatever it is that's got them kind of stuck in their life
• 7:48
  enough to, you know, make that big step of like, oh shit, you
• 7:52
  know, I can't, you know, this is a real problem.
• 7:54
  You know, I'm not, I'm not managing on my own.
• 7:57
  You know, I can't, you know, I can't, I can't do this by
• 8:01
  myself. It's not working.
• 8:02
  I think I need to get the help of a professional.
• 8:05
  So that's what I do to that point.
• 8:08
  I guess, you know, being a Bitcoiner, it can be isolating,
• 8:11
  particularly if you don't have that interaction, whether it's
• 8:15
  at a local meet up, maybe you haven't yet found Bitcoin
• 8:19
  podcasts for whatever reason. I would expect by 2026, if you
• 8:23
  haven't made, you haven't discovered Bitcoin podcasts, you
• 8:28
  probably haven't discovered Bitcoin.
• 8:29
  But there is that sort of, you know, isolation of being a
• 8:36
  bitcoiner in your own realm, your own world, your own meat
• 8:41
  space. And so it's difficult.
• 8:42
  To talk. Potentially to those around you
• 8:45
  because they don't quite understand it, they don't get
• 8:47
  it, they don't have the time to want to understand it, etcetera.
• 8:51
  And I guess that is something that you're dealing with or
• 8:54
  maybe you've dealt with is would that be fair to say?
• 8:57
  And I'm trying to sort of frame it up as like you're listening
• 9:00
  to people's problems all day because that's your job, that's
• 9:02
  your role, that's your, that's what you signed up for and
• 9:05
  you're helping people to to work through those problems.
• 9:09
  But on the other end is an individual just the same as them
• 9:12
  really with your own set of unique issues, problems to deal
• 9:15
  with. And not that bitcoins that
• 9:19
  necessarily life threatening certainly isn't, but it's kind
• 9:22
  of exciting and you want to get it out.
• 9:25
  I guess maybe where I'm heading with this question is, have you
• 9:28
  ever felt the need to just burst out in a counseling session and
• 9:32
  be like bro just literally buy some fucking Bitcoin?
• 9:36
  Like your problem will be completely solved if you just
• 9:40
  discovered this thing. Yeah.
• 9:43
  You know that is, that's a very deep question and it's I guess
• 9:49
  the answer maybe is a bit multi pronged like this sort of like a
• 9:52
  surface level answer and maybe a deeper answer.
• 9:54
  And the surface level answer is, you know, in that regard, I have
• 9:58
  yeah, I was a bit reluctant to do this for a little while, but
• 10:03
  probably in about the last six months or so, you know, I took
• 10:07
  the took the plunge to promote myself as a, you know, as a
• 10:14
  small business owner who accepts Bitcoin.
• 10:17
  So did did all that and I promote, I promoted it with my
• 10:19
  clients and, you know, I have a little Bitcoin, you know, logo
• 10:24
  in my consulting rooms and so on.
• 10:26
  So and, you know, that's that's been kind of moderately
• 10:29
  successful. Like people don't look at my
• 10:32
  clients don't look at some have been like, oh, what's that?
• 10:35
  You know, and looked at me a bit askance.
• 10:38
  But some have picked it up and and, you know, we've gone
• 10:41
  through that, that process of getting them to download the
• 10:44
  software and work out all of the ways of using the companies that
• 10:49
  help turn, you know, Fiat dollars into Bitcoin.
• 10:52
  But on a deeper level, I think, you know, interest, well, maybe
• 10:55
  interestingly or not interestingly, I am not at all,
• 11:01
  not at all interested in evangelizing Bitcoin to the rest
• 11:07
  of the world. And it's funny, you know, I do
• 11:09
  listen to a lot of Bitcoin podcasts and I, I do listen to
• 11:12
  people and say, oh, you know, I went through this stage of, you
• 11:15
  know, being like the town crier, you know, with Bitcoin and
• 11:18
  telling my family. And actually, I think it was I
• 11:21
  listened to one of your podcasts that you do with, with hard
• 11:25
  block. Actually, I think.
• 11:26
  Did you buy, You bought the, the Bitcoin standard for your
• 11:30
  brother 1 Christmas or something like that?
• 11:33
  And it's sort of it's that it's that dusty on the shelf for like
• 11:37
  God knows how long and it's in, you know, I, I love that.
• 11:40
  I think that's really good. That's not me at all.
• 11:43
  That's not me at all. And I think, you know, maybe
• 11:46
  here's the reason why. What I understand is when the
• 11:53
  student is ready, the teacher will appear.
• 11:56
  So that's an old kind of Zen, an old Zen kind of bit of wisdom.
• 12:01
  And what I what I understand very much from psychotherapy and
• 12:06
  from change, change dynamics and change behaviour is that it
• 12:12
  doesn't matter if you are the best teacher in the universe and
• 12:18
  if you've got all of the exalted knowledge and you could, you
• 12:22
  could, you could change the trajectory of someone's life and
• 12:26
  measurably for the better. If they're not ready to change,
• 12:30
  they're just, it's going to fall on deaf ears.
• 12:32
  You're going to exhaust yourself, they're going to
• 12:35
  misrepresent you. And yeah, so I, you know, I do
• 12:41
  with, with clients who are, who are wanting change, say with
• 12:44
  their drug and alcohol issues, for example, you know, I might
• 12:48
  get a client coming to me and they'll say, oh, you know, my
• 12:52
  wife told me I need to come here and stop my drinking.
• 12:55
  And I'm like, OK, tell me more. It's like, oh, my boss says I'm
• 12:59
  drinking too much. My kids don't like it.
• 13:02
  My friends say I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a bit of a bullfed and,
• 13:06
  and, and then I say, well, what do you think, mate?
• 13:09
  You know, what do you think? And he's, and that client will
• 13:11
  say like, no, I love it. You know, I'm still, I love it.
• 13:14
  I'm not ready. And So what, what I say to them
• 13:16
  is thank you for seeing me. I think our, our work here is
• 13:21
  done. Come back and see me in another
• 13:24
  year and a half because that, that client like they're what?
• 13:27
  You can't change. If a whole lot of other people
• 13:29
  want you to change. You can only change if you want
• 13:32
  to change. You can't get that.
• 13:34
  I do very deeply believe that people find Bitcoin when they're
• 13:39
  ready. And if they're not ready, it
• 13:42
  doesn't matter how good a speaker you are, it doesn't
• 13:45
  matter how, how good an interlocutor you are, it's just
• 13:48
  going to bounce off. So that's what, you know, I
• 13:50
  really, and I, I guess my clinical experience influences
• 13:55
  my, you know, I, I have, I have no, no interest in wasting my
• 14:03
  time bashing my head against a brick wall trying to convince
• 14:05
  someone who's not ready to be convinced.
• 14:08
  It's so true. And I think this is what the the
• 14:13
  kind of trap that a lot of bitcoiners they go through
• 14:17
  perhaps this cycle of they discover this thing, they get
• 14:23
  excited about it, they learn about it, they dive super deep
• 14:27
  into it. MMM And they of course want
• 14:30
  others to, you know, come across the bridge and and join, join
• 14:35
  them and become, you know, evangelical and then maybe they.
• 14:39
  Yeah, it's a beautiful, It's a beautiful instinct, you know,
• 14:41
  it's lovely. Yeah, it's a.
• 14:42
  Lovely. It's completely, it's all from
• 14:44
  love and, and particularly when it's their immediate family and
• 14:48
  friends and they want them to come across the bridge cause
• 14:51
  they've realized and it does come from a place of, of
• 14:54
  compassion and love. And then it's usually met with,
• 14:58
  you know, indifference really, which is probably the most
• 15:02
  hurtful. And then you kind of left a
• 15:06
  little shallow. And I, I think it's taken me a
• 15:08
  long time to realize, you know, that you just can't stop people
• 15:16
  suffering basically like it's, it's up to them, You know, it's,
• 15:20
  it's, it's, it's an old rhyme Das video that I've, I've, I've
• 15:25
  got saved. But you can't save people from
• 15:27
  their own suffering. You know, it's a, it's something
• 15:30
  you have to just come through. And so again, as you said, when
• 15:33
  they're ready, the teacher will appear.
• 15:35
  And it's yes, yes, it really is almost like I, I've thought
• 15:39
  maybe to an extent Bitcoin is a little like a guru in that
• 15:47
  instance, yes. Not, not an old saying old all
• 15:52
  wise and knowledgeable sage like in the, in the traditional sort
• 15:55
  of sense, but in, in a sense of, of it has a, such an enormous
• 16:01
  amount to teach you. None of it is secret, although
• 16:05
  it is embedded in cryptography and all you have to do is
• 16:10
  listen. Yep, 100%.
• 16:15
  Well look beautifully said. And I like like it's like a, you
• 16:20
  know, people, my wife gives me one of the people, you know, my
• 16:23
  wife and I, we rant about Bitcoin all the time.
• 16:26
  So she's kind of my, you know, she's my partner in crime.
• 16:28
  You know, that's where I get all of that out, you know, and and
• 16:32
  Bush bashes, you know, but you know, she's always at me.
• 16:36
  Like I I do really get caught up on, you know, is Bitcoin the new
• 16:41
  Jesus? And is Bitcoin the you know, you
• 16:44
  know, that mean, you know, she's like, Oh, you can't say that
• 16:47
  that's not true. And but you've you know, I
• 16:51
  wrestle with it. You know, if Bitcoin is if, if,
• 16:54
  if Bitcoin. I think your point about Bitcoin
• 16:58
  as some kind of guru energy. There really is something there.
• 17:03
  You know, there's something there.
• 17:04
  It's it, it, it, it's, it was probably for someone smarter
• 17:09
  than me to fully flesh that out and elucidate it.
• 17:12
  But yeah, it's something it is, it is like a, there's a, there
• 17:17
  is a spiritual wisdom in, in it, a lot like the spiritual
• 17:23
  traditions. Yeah, I do.
• 17:25
  I do really feel that, yeah. If it's not the, if Bitcoin
• 17:28
  isn't the new guru, it's the new, maybe it's the new 10
• 17:32
  commandments or a a new kind of some kind of guiding ethical
• 17:38
  principles on which we can hang some kind of emerging multi
• 17:44
  dimensional organizing principle for society.
• 17:47
  Because anyone like you or me, I think anyone who's listening to
• 17:52
  this podcast knows that Bitcoin is more than just economics.
• 17:56
  It's more than just an alternative currency.
• 17:59
  A lot more. A lot more, you know, and the
• 18:02
  engineering Bros and the economic Bros that like to stay
• 18:05
  in their wheelhouse, you know, they, they, they'll have, you
• 18:10
  know, something to say about that and that's cool.
• 18:13
  I I've one of the interesting things about the bash and you
• 18:16
  actually spoke on. I'm pretty sure it was the
• 18:18
  Saturday or was it the Sunday? Maybe I'm getting mixed up, but
• 18:22
  I think. I think it was the Sunday it.
• 18:24
  Was the Sunday, Yeah. So they normally reserve a lot
• 18:27
  of the kind of more esoteric elements of Bitcoin to the
• 18:33
  Sunday, I guess, because, you know, it's, you know, we can get
• 18:36
  all the business upfront and, and then, and, and then we can
• 18:40
  chill out on the Sunday. And, you know, there's a subset
• 18:44
  of, of Bitcoiners just like there's a subset of humans that
• 18:48
  vibe with that and don't vibe with that.
• 18:50
  And that's the beautiful thing about Bitcoiners that you can
• 18:52
  pass through that. You can come into contact with
• 18:55
  that filter with that, with that network, you can touch it, you
• 18:59
  can engage with it, you can use it, participate and it will give
• 19:04
  you, it will kind of reflect back to you what you're looking
• 19:08
  for in in this most extraordinary way like it, it
• 19:12
  kind of source node. I'm just coming to my mind
• 19:17
  again, a neutral amplifier of affect.
• 19:21
  That's what he said. You plug into this thing and it
• 19:24
  will it will amplify whatever it is that you're you are, you're
• 19:28
  seeking, etcetera, And and not in like a, you know, conscious
• 19:34
  way. It's like you have to do the
• 19:36
  work. It's the same as like
• 19:37
  discovering God or discovering, you know, I don't know your own
• 19:42
  damn heart for whatever reason, you know, like you have to.
• 19:46
  Do the work. Anything valuable?
• 19:47
  Yeah. Anything valuable?
• 19:48
  Precisely. Yeah.
• 19:49
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 19:50
  Yeah. Bitcoin doesn't announce itself.
• 19:52
  It reveals itself not in the moment you buy, but in the
• 19:56
  moment you stop thinking of it as a trade, start sensing it as
• 20:00
  a discovery. This episode is supported by
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• 20:44
  Yeah, I, yeah, I totally agree with that as well.
• 20:46
  And you know, I, I think, umm, how many Bush bashes?
• 20:49
  I think I've been to three, maybe, maybe 4 Bush bashes now.
• 20:53
  I sort of lost count off the top of my head, but you know, I do.
• 20:56
  I do, yes. I mean, you know, who's who were
• 21:00
  the early adopters of Bitcoin, who were the people that really
• 21:02
  knew it. Well, of course it was the
• 21:03
  engineers. It was the techie guys and gals
• 21:06
  and thank God for them. And you know, there is a lot of
• 21:11
  engineering and tech information that is so valuable and vital
• 21:16
  and important. And I've learnt a lot from those
• 21:20
  guys even though I'm not, it's not my not my area of natural
• 21:23
  expertise. You know, the, the left brain
• 21:26
  kind of like maths and engineering stuff.
• 21:28
  I'm more of that kind of right brain.
• 21:30
  Yeah, obviously, you know, humanities and squishy feelings
• 21:33
  and and and so on. But you know, I think that one
• 21:37
  of the reasons why I was keen to try and see if I could do a
• 21:40
  presentation at a, at a Bush bash is precisely to your point
• 21:43
  just now. You know, So once we, once we
• 21:46
  find, once we arrive at a Bitcoin society or economy,
• 21:51
  well, what's life going to be like?
• 21:53
  You know, once the engineering is in place, once the hyper
• 21:58
  bitcoinization is complete and we have the sound money and you
• 22:03
  know, we have an economy built on truth and integrity.
• 22:06
  What, what's it going to be like to live?
• 22:08
  You know, what, what, what, what are relationships going to be
• 22:10
  like? What are what, what's human
• 22:14
  psychology going to be like? What's sociology going to be
• 22:17
  like? What's our what's our life going
• 22:19
  to be like in in on the other side of the Bitcoin world when
• 22:24
  we finally free ourselves from the, the Fiat, you know,
• 22:29
  bullshittery, hellscape, you know, that's the technical term.
• 22:34
  PS Well, the yeah, like the, the, you know, this fake
• 22:39
  confected, you know, House of Lies that yeah, that's called,
• 22:45
  that's called out, You know, not just our economy, but our whole
• 22:48
  society, our politics, our ethics, our relationships, our,
• 22:53
  you know, everything we do poisoned by fear.
• 22:57
  What's it going to be like day-to-day?
• 22:59
  And that's why I, you know, I sort of wanted to to to talk to
• 23:01
  that problem, to that issue, You know what, what is life going to
• 23:05
  be like for a human being on on the other side of the the
• 23:10
  Bitcoin transition? So I was really glad to be given
• 23:13
  the opportunity to step up and have a gut trying to flesh out
• 23:18
  some of those ideas. Yeah, I want to.
• 23:20
  I I want to. And we need more of that.
• 23:22
  I think we need more of that. I think so too.
• 23:25
  And I, and I do, I'm going to, I'm going to, to use an
• 23:28
  incredibly annoying and irritating corporate speak.
• 23:32
  I'm going to circle back to that at some point in the
• 23:36
  conversation, but I got to kick things off because we've already
• 23:39
  connected. It's 21 minutes in.
• 23:42
  How did you discover Bitcoin? Yes.
• 23:46
  OK. So all right, Well, it's, you
• 23:49
  know, we got to go back a little bit.
• 23:51
  I think it's a it's a big question.
• 23:53
  So for me, I think so I hope that you'll indulge me.
• 24:00
  I'll try and get through, but it's a bit of a bit of an
• 24:03
  origin. It's an origin story in three
• 24:04
  parts, if I may. I love it.
• 24:07
  So I've been thinking about this because I know you asked this
• 24:09
  question and that's a damn good question.
• 24:11
  And sometimes it's a really big question, but let me start by
• 24:14
  saying, so I I'll start, start, start this way.
• 24:21
  I am what known as in the trade a wounded healer.
• 24:26
  OK, So what that means is I'm a, I'm a therapist who's also a
• 24:31
  survivor of, of trauma of, of childhood trauma actually.
• 24:36
  So I, I, and that's the thing about therapists that, that in
• 24:40
  my experience, there aren't a lot of therapists who just fall
• 24:43
  backside first into the work. There's usually like a reason or
• 24:47
  a process why people are so drawn to this kind of work.
• 24:51
  And for me, I did grow up in a very chaotic and unstable and
• 24:59
  dysfunctional and traumatizing family, right?
• 25:02
  So I won't go into too much detail, but suffice it to say,
• 25:07
  you know, there was, there was a lot of chaos, there's a lot of
• 25:09
  instability, There was a lot of narcissism.
• 25:12
  There was, there was substance abuse and instability.
• 25:17
  There was no actual violence or, or anything like that, but there
• 25:22
  was a lot of, in my work, I call, I talk about big T trauma,
• 25:28
  little T trauma and tricky family trauma.
• 25:31
  So it's the three kinds, you know, big T, small T and little
• 25:33
  T So big T trauma is like you, you were the child of violent
• 25:39
  personality disordered Alcoholics and they beat you and
• 25:42
  you were neglected. Yeah, that's big T trauma,
• 25:44
  right? What we all know about having a
• 25:46
  traumatized childhood, little T trauma is a little bit more
• 25:49
  subtle. So, for example, little T trauma
• 25:52
  is, you know, you, you were a kid and you grew up with maybe
• 25:56
  narcissistic workaholics as parents.
• 25:58
  So you know, what that means is, you know, they didn't, they
• 26:03
  didn't really cherish being a parent.
• 26:06
  It wasn't anywhere on their top 10 of priorities.
• 26:12
  What they really wanted is to be, you know, mum was a
• 26:14
  corporate lawyer and dad was a senior politician and they
• 26:17
  worked 80 hour weeks. And what they really liked was
• 26:21
  to be highly regarded professionals and having
• 26:26
  children was sort of something that they didn't weren't really
• 26:30
  into. And unfortunately for a
• 26:33
  narcissistic workaholic parent, you know, by the time you have
• 26:35
  the kids and work it out, it's a bit too late.
• 26:37
  So the kid, the child of a narcissistic workaholic parent,
• 26:41
  might grow up with lots of material, you know, lots of
• 26:48
  material resources, but but the real riches are having connected
• 26:53
  and really loving parents. And so that's the kind of kid
• 26:56
  you know. Yeah.
• 26:56
  The the kid who gets the white BMW for their first car and just
• 27:01
  immediately gets shit faced and drives it into a tree.
• 27:04
  We see. So that's the that's little T
• 27:06
  trauma. Presence, not presence.
• 27:09
  Exactly, exactly. So I had a lot of, yeah, I had a
• 27:13
  lot of, I had a lot of little T trauma and a lot of tricky
• 27:19
  family trauma. And just very quickly, tricky
• 27:22
  family trauma is different to small T trauma.
• 27:25
  It's you, you come from a family where there might be actually,
• 27:29
  you know, there's no abuse and there might actually be love.
• 27:33
  You know, you've got stocked pantries, you've got summer
• 27:36
  holidays and everything. But the tricky family might not
• 27:40
  be able to do grief, right. They, they, they grow up sort of
• 27:44
  not doing grief. And so, you know, you're a kid,
• 27:47
  you're 7 years old, you come home and you're like, mum, dad,
• 27:51
  where's Rusty the dog? And mum and dad say, oh, honey,
• 27:56
  Rusty had a, a twisted bowel. And we took him to the vet and
• 28:00
  we put him down. Anyway, who wants milkshakes?
• 28:01
  Come on everybody. And off you go, right?
• 28:04
  And there you are drinking your milkshake with and the elephant
• 28:08
  in the room is never discussed because he's a family that
• 28:12
  doesn't do grief. And you grow up wondering why
• 28:14
  you drink your feelings right? And you don't know or you eat
• 28:17
  your feelings or you don't know how to do grief.
• 28:20
  So anyway, look, to cut a Long story short, I grew up with a
• 28:23
  lot of tricky family trauma and multi trauma.
• 28:29
  And I spend a lot of time, spend a lot of time recovering and,
• 28:35
  and, and transcending that and a lot of money and a lot of
• 28:39
  therapy and only to be confronted by COVID.
• 28:44
  OK, so 2022 and the biggest, the biggest narcissistic kind of
• 28:52
  gaslighting psyop in the history of Western civilization.
• 28:57
  And you know, I think what, what what happened with COVID is, it
• 29:01
  reminded me of my childhood because I grew up with
• 29:05
  gaslighting narcissists, right? And what I started to realize is
• 29:10
  the state was being a gaslight, A gaslighting narcissist entity.
• 29:15
  And suffice it to say, I didn't, I wasn't compliant with that,
• 29:25
  the lies of it all. And, and I paid the price
• 29:28
  professionally for standing up for my, for, for not, you know,
• 29:31
  I, you know, after having the childhood that I had, I, I made
• 29:36
  a promise to myself, never again will I allow myself to be gas
• 29:39
  lit like that. And so when the state came along
• 29:42
  and gas lit, gas lit us all in COVID, I really just stood my
• 29:47
  ground and said absolutely no way.
• 29:49
  And I was working in a hospital as a mental health professional.
• 29:54
  And obviously, you know, didn't, didn't survive that employment.
• 29:59
  You know, there was no way unless you were compliant, you
• 30:02
  could stay in the, the institutional medical space.
• 30:06
  And so I fell backside first licking my wounds into some, you
• 30:12
  know, an alternative medicine space where there were a lot of
• 30:16
  people who were getting treatment, where I was picking
• 30:19
  up a little bit of, you know, work here and there just trying
• 30:22
  to, you know, keep their mortgage going.
• 30:25
  And one of the clients was, was a sheet coiner as you will,
• 30:29
  right. And so he, this guy was some
• 30:32
  kind of token sheet coin dude. And he was trying to get us all
• 30:35
  to invest our money in his token sheet coin.
• 30:38
  And I remember asking him once, oh, mate, you know, you this
• 30:45
  thing and I didn't know anything about Bitcoin or any sheet coins
• 30:48
  at the time, right? But I remember asking him, look,
• 30:52
  it, it sounds like a Ponzi scheme.
• 30:55
  You know, what, what, what, what, what, what's the deal with
• 30:58
  your, why is your, why is this coin, this token that you're,
• 31:01
  that you're promoting different from a Ponzi scheme?
• 31:04
  And he said to me, he said, Jeremy, when you fly in a plane,
• 31:11
  do you go up to the pilot and say, what's going on with all of
• 31:14
  these? And, you know, tell me how you
• 31:16
  fly the plane and tell me how to do the joystick.
• 31:18
  You don't do the instrument. Does.
• 31:20
  That you don't exactly, you know, you just go back in the
• 31:23
  back and you and you sit back and you enjoy your flight.
• 31:27
  And so Jeremy, that's what you should do with me.
• 31:30
  Just give me your money and let me be the pilot.
• 31:33
  You know, and and and not no word of a lie to Jay.
• 31:37
  And that is when I went well. You fuck.
• 31:41
  That and I'm not going anywhere near it, you know, and and by
• 31:46
  strange synchronicity at the very same time I happened to
• 31:50
  find a podcast, it was a round table podcast with that was done
• 31:54
  with Jordan Peterson and a whole lot of Bitcoiners like Svetsky
• 31:59
  and Robert Breedlove and who's that dude the this is about 2022
• 32:05
  I. Think John Vallas, the guy I
• 32:06
  think was on that call. Right, right.
• 32:08
  Yeah, yeah. Eric Cason.
• 32:11
  Right, right. And I just like what the hell is
• 32:15
  this? You know, like this is
• 32:17
  fantastic. And man, I was oh, have they
• 32:20
  fantastic. You know, I was hooked and I
• 32:23
  went down and from from there, I sort of consumed as much Spitzky
• 32:27
  as I could and as much breed love as I could.
• 32:31
  And I got onto the the sailor series, which has blew my mind.
• 32:35
  And from there on to Faifa Dean, which blew my, blew my mind and,
• 32:40
  and I became, you know, I, I guess what I got from all of
• 32:44
  that is like, because another question that you ask, I know in
• 32:48
  these podcasts is what is Bitcoin to you?
• 32:50
  Right? And that's another bloody great
• 32:52
  question and what I realised through this process.
• 32:55
  And I, I do apologise again about the long answer to the
• 32:58
  question. We have time.
• 33:00
  It's. Fine, it's great.
• 33:02
  Yeah, So that what is Bitcoin to me, Bitcoin was what I was
• 33:08
  looking for. And I've never gone back and
• 33:12
  I've never invested a cent in a shit coin.
• 33:15
  And, you know, from then I've been a true believer, you know,
• 33:19
  and I've been, I've been. So, you know, COVID really,
• 33:27
  really upset my world. I couldn't believe it.
• 33:31
  I was very, very rocked and disheartened and bemused by the,
• 33:37
  and, you know, and it was actually quite traumatizing
• 33:39
  because it did kind of remind me of all of the lies and the
• 33:42
  gaslighting that I got from my childhood because that was the
• 33:45
  worst thing about my child, my childhood trauma.
• 33:47
  Is gaslighting right now just for your, your, your listeners,
• 33:51
  if they don't know, gaslighting psychologically essentially is
• 33:55
  when, when someone is trying to tell you that what you're
• 34:00
  feeling and what you're thinking and what you're experiencing is
• 34:03
  not real. And it's a very manipulative
• 34:06
  trick and it's very psycho. Gas lighting is very
• 34:09
  psychologically corrosive. And what was done to all of us
• 34:14
  through COVID, in my opinion, professionally and personally,
• 34:18
  was an industrial, unprecedented psyop of gas lighting.
• 34:25
  And I was just so grateful through all of the, the darkness
• 34:29
  and the madness and the confusion and the chaos and the
• 34:34
  disheartenment that I that I was lucky enough to find Bitcoin
• 34:37
  because it was, I was really searching very hard for
• 34:43
  something of integrity after all of the things that I used to
• 34:46
  believe in, by the way, like working in hospitals and in the
• 34:49
  public health system for 25 years, that was all just
• 34:53
  destroyed through COVID. Like that they turned against
• 34:57
  their codes of ethics, you know, their principles, all, all of
• 35:02
  the, all for this fake, this fake vac, this fake pandemic and
• 35:07
  this fake vaccine. Everything that I'd worked,
• 35:10
  worked towards as a, as a true believer public servant just
• 35:14
  gone. And so Bitcoin, sort of, I found
• 35:18
  Bitcoin in the wreckage. And it really helped me to kind
• 35:20
  of, you know, pick myself up and, and, and, and adhere myself
• 35:26
  to something that I could that, that, that had integrity and
• 35:29
  that I could really believe in. So Bitcoin is the thing that the
• 35:32
  thing that I was looking for. So I hope that answers your
• 35:34
  question. It's a, it's a long one in a
• 35:38
  world. It's a bit psychological, but.
• 35:39
  Of lies and deception and just just out and out.
• 35:47
  Pathetic. It's just like pathetic mental
• 35:53
  ability to just to be honest. I have 0.
• 35:58
  I can get along, obviously. I can be polite to those around
• 36:02
  me that were a part of the gaslighting brigade during those
• 36:07
  times. And you know, it's not that.
• 36:12
  Like, I read this thing in the newspaper a little while ago,
• 36:18
  but I found it again. There was like a, a clipping
• 36:21
  that was written by an anonymous.
• 36:22
  It says a message to the unvaccinated.
• 36:23
  I'm not going to read the whole thing, but basically it just
• 36:25
  says that, you know, one, one of the paragraphs.
• 36:28
  They are beings above the average of their societies.
• 36:31
  They are the essence of the people who have built all
• 36:34
  cultures and conquered horizons. They are there next to you.
• 36:37
  They look normal, but they are superheroes.
• 36:39
  These are all the people that that that chose not to buy into
• 36:42
  that nonsense. I don't necessarily like the
• 36:46
  elitist intonation that a message like that gives.
• 36:52
  And it's also why I tend to shy away from the term MPCA little
• 36:55
  bit, maybe in a joking manner, but I'm not too fond of of that
• 37:01
  kind of divisive, you know, nature.
• 37:04
  But I will say that I mean, gosh, knowing where you are and
• 37:10
  where you practice, that's a secret and I won't, I won't dox
• 37:14
  you, but I mean that that was, that was the epicenter of of the
• 37:18
  hellscape that is, and was that that era.
• 37:25
  And so, you know, when it's so dark and so bleak and so awful,
• 37:31
  that's usually when you really need to start tuning in and
• 37:36
  listening and, and sort of seeking something.
• 37:39
  And, and as you said, then when when you start, when you're
• 37:41
  ready, the teacher will appear. And all of a sudden you had your
• 37:45
  first touch point, dismissed it. But for some reason it just came
• 37:49
  back around as you said, that synchronicity, the universe is
• 37:53
  trying to sort of like, I don't know, happy on the shoulder and
• 37:56
  be like, hey, man, like this is probably something that could
• 37:59
  could you can anchor to, you know, because because it's never
• 38:03
  going to gaslight you. It can't.
• 38:04
  It's written in the code like what you see in the blocks and
• 38:07
  the transactions are forever. It's immutable.
• 38:11
  You cannot change it. And it's it's pretty special in
• 38:16
  that respect. Yeah, yeah, totally agree.
• 38:22
  Yeah, in a world of, you know, in a world, in a world of lies.
• 38:28
  Yeah, that's the other thing as well, about when, when you go
• 38:30
  down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, when you get orange peeled, you
• 38:33
  actually realise just how much, you know, not just not just
• 38:39
  lies, but lies perpetrated by people who insist to their dying
• 38:47
  breath. And they're telling you the
• 38:48
  truth as well, you know? You know, and just.
• 38:53
  Yeah, just everything, everything, everything is.
• 38:59
  I just just just confected and. You can say it.
• 39:03
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much, Yeah, pretty much.
• 39:07
  And you know, and I think that's, that's the other thing
• 39:10
  as well. You know, I think I think a lot
• 39:13
  of Bitcoiners kind of realise actually, someone actually said
• 39:17
  to me, here's the life cycle of a Bitcoiner and I I kind of like
• 39:21
  this, you know, the first the first year.
• 39:25
  What is it something like? And I think it was Katan
• 39:27
  actually, by the way, who's who, who first told me about this?
• 39:31
  Who who we both know great guy, very smart.
• 39:34
  He said, look, first year you now.
• 39:40
  Yeah, this is the this is the kind of life journey for Bitcoin
• 39:42
  at first first year. You try to tell everyone you
• 39:48
  know about it or you try and know everything it you can about
• 39:54
  it. You either tell everyone you
• 39:55
  know about it or you just go go on your own exploration journey.
• 39:58
  In five years you're debt free and in 10 years you're the
• 40:03
  happiest, happiest person ever. You know, and, and I don't think
• 40:09
  that Bitcoiners need to bash people over the head with the
• 40:14
  with you know, with, you know, the way, the truth and the lie.
• 40:18
  You know, they, I think they do realize that.
• 40:23
  You know, there isn't a strong evangelical spirit in the
• 40:27
  Bitcoin movement that I've been aware of.
• 40:28
  It's like, you know, we are cool.
• 40:32
  We we are, we are forward forming parallel and alternative
• 40:39
  communities and institutions. And I think, you know, people
• 40:43
  come as, as we discussed earlier, people come when
• 40:45
  they're ready, but I don't think there are more and more people
• 40:49
  joining Bitcoin every day and kind of less and less.
• 40:54
  Like if you're a real Bitcoiner, you don't join Bitcoin and then
• 40:57
  leave it. You know, you sort of stay.
• 41:02
  So, yeah, unless you're Luke groaning, we're growing.
• 41:05
  Unless you're sorry. Unless you're Luke groaning
• 41:08
  right, Who's down bad. But yeah, like he's trading it
• 41:13
  obviously for his family office. So he's there's a professional
• 41:15
  element there. But when you understand
• 41:19
  absolutely like it's a one way St. once once you comprehend
• 41:23
  Bitcoin, once it's once once your mind is stretched to that
• 41:27
  idea, it's not going back and you you, you will just you
• 41:33
  you'll just begin to absorb the thing.
• 41:36
  The thing is, I guess like sometimes we work at the speed,
• 41:40
  we sort of become a little impatient.
• 41:42
  I've certainly been guilty of this as well with respect to
• 41:47
  particularly if you, if you listen or you're engaged with a
• 41:49
  lot of the, the content, you know, and the, and the, the
• 41:54
  activities that happen over in the US, you know, everything's
• 41:57
  happening at lightspeed. All those places like Lugano
• 41:59
  where they've got these circular economies.
• 42:01
  And, and in Australia here we're sort of, we're, we're lagging a
• 42:04
  little bit behind. But what I noticed, particularly
• 42:07
  the Bush bash, just go back to that for a second was those
• 42:09
  those little market stalls and there was Earth mum with the
• 42:13
  soap and there was Vinnie with all of his he had like blue
• 42:18
  blockers and all of these sort of, I guess, health elements
• 42:23
  that he was he was selling. Sonny had his pizza and his
• 42:27
  pizza boards, things like this Biani shout out shot Bitcoin,
• 42:32
  you know, And so that was a nice little glimpse into this little
• 42:37
  Bitcoin circular economy that we're that we're slowly building
• 42:40
  out. And it reminded me at least to
• 42:43
  just take it easy. It's happening, it is happening.
• 42:47
  It's all good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you
• 42:51
  there. And yeah, I mean, Australia is
• 42:54
  what has happened to a poor old Australia in the last couple of
• 42:57
  decades. You know, we're really, we
• 42:59
  really are a bit of a bottom feeder nation.
• 43:03
  And it didn't 20 years ago, it wasn't, it wasn't really like
• 43:06
  that, you know, pretty. Sure, we have the economic
• 43:08
  complexity less than was it Nigeria or Somalia.
• 43:12
  It was. It was.
• 43:13
  Botswana or something? Yeah.
• 43:15
  Something like that. Like that's pretty bad.
• 43:19
  We, we have become a pathetic nation in a very short time.
• 43:23
  And we weren't, we weren't like I'm old enough to remember, you
• 43:27
  know, Australia was an amazingly, you know, you know,
• 43:30
  proud and groundbreaking in many domains.
• 43:33
  But yeah, it's, it's weird the way we've become so retrograde
• 43:36
  and pathetic so quickly. But yeah, here it can be a bit
• 43:40
  frustrating as well. And you know, when you you know,
• 43:42
  the dollar go up, you know, dramas of of last year
• 43:46
  frustrating, but you know, what can you do?
• 43:49
  You know, like it just stacks that and what is it?
• 43:53
  Stay, stay humble and be stay humble stacks.
• 43:56
  That man, you know. And, and you know, the
• 43:58
  engineering, the fundamental axiomatic truths of it, and the
• 44:02
  engineering just doesn't lie, does it?
• 44:04
  You know, it's so it will, you know, we just be confident that
• 44:10
  it'll happen when, when the time is right.
• 44:15
  TikTok next block? Quick break just to say if
• 44:18
  you're enjoying. The show.
• 44:18
  And digging what you hear. Please consider supporting
• 44:21
  discovering Bitcoin by shooting, boosting, sending or zapping the
• 44:25
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• 44:26
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• 44:29
  Fountain Pod, Verse or Breeze, it's easier done than said.
• 44:34
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• 44:40
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• 44:44
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• 44:49
  of the show to discovering Bitcoin at primal.net.
• 44:54
  Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.
• 44:58
  How has? Discovering Bitcoin.
• 45:00
  Changed you? Yeah.
• 45:03
  Look, I think, I think Bitcoin. Discovering Bitcoin has changed
• 45:07
  me fundamentally, you know, like I as sort of going on from some
• 45:16
  of my earlier answers, you know, like I was very, very
• 45:21
  disheartened and let down by the institutions that I trusted and
• 45:25
  believed in. I was, I was a bit of a naive
• 45:29
  true believer before COVID and really was, you know, let down
• 45:33
  by the police, for example, by our politicians, by our health,
• 45:37
  our health authorities, which was like just utter, you know,
• 45:40
  the, the way that the, the health sector handled COVID was
• 45:43
  just utter bullshit. And I was in the middle of it
• 45:45
  and I saw it from my, from my vantage point.
• 45:48
  And, and I think that all left me very, you know, very
• 45:54
  dispirited and very despairing about the direction and the
• 46:01
  trajectory of our culture and our society, not just in
• 46:04
  Australia, but all around the, the, the world.
• 46:06
  Because, you know, the COVID madness just wasn't happening in
• 46:09
  Australia, as we all know, it was happening everywhere.
• 46:11
  We weirdly in synchronicity. And I think Bitcoin was
• 46:17
  something that gave. Me, it sort of gave.
• 46:22
  Me hope that I really needed it gave me something to kind of
• 46:29
  believe in and kind of hang my head on that that that that.
• 46:37
  It was a it was a something to hang.
• 46:40
  My yeah, something to hang my hope on because to sort of to
• 46:44
  work in health and to work in mental health, you actually, you
• 46:48
  actually have to really believe it's not a high paying
• 46:52
  profession. It's a very rewarding
• 46:54
  profession, but it's also a very challenging profession,
• 46:57
  obviously. And I worked in acute mental
• 46:59
  health in hospitals and so on. You got to kind of believe in it
• 47:02
  to do it. You got to believe that you're
• 47:03
  doing good. And COVID really wrecked all of
• 47:06
  that for me and it kind of left me a little bit shattered and
• 47:11
  burned out. And what, what Bitcoin did was
• 47:14
  like, give me a give me the energy surge to kind of like,
• 47:18
  well, you know, the old ways they kind of corrupt and, and,
• 47:23
  you know, fossilized and dying, but there's this new way and
• 47:27
  it's, it is it is powered by Bitcoin.
• 47:33
  And I like what you said about, you know, the little tallow
• 47:35
  markets and the blue block of glasses and the, and the little
• 47:38
  alternative, you know, market stalls that are opening up in
• 47:42
  Bush bashes. You know, I think, you know,
• 47:43
  that is the new, they are the new things that are going to
• 47:46
  start these organic kind of, you know, true, the kind of true
• 47:52
  capitalism, true not, not crony capitalism.
• 47:55
  That's all the stuff we're starting to see little green
• 47:57
  shoots bringing up everywhere. And so Bitcoin, how Bitcoin
• 48:00
  changed me is it kind of like gave me hope again where I was a
• 48:05
  bit despairing. It revitalized.
• 48:07
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried.
• 48:09
  I tried. Being a bit of an activist, I
• 48:11
  tried, you know, joining the libertarian political party.
• 48:15
  I tried going and doing marches and demos.
• 48:18
  And, you know, you, you can't, I don't think you're going to,
• 48:20
  we're not going to vote our way out of this stuff.
• 48:22
  You know, we're not going to, we're not going to March.
• 48:24
  We're not going to be able to change the corruption of Fiat
• 48:27
  culture by by voting in a libertarian politician here or
• 48:32
  a, or a, you know, a dissident politician there or petitioning
• 48:37
  our MPs. But Bitcoin, that holds some
• 48:41
  promise. And so it kind of gave me that
• 48:45
  energy back. So that's how Bitcoin changed
• 48:48
  me. Thank goodness for that.
• 48:50
  It gave you energy. That's really.
• 48:52
  Really cool. Yeah, to keep on, to keep on
• 48:54
  keeping on with it all. And not and not and not become a
• 48:57
  cynic, you know, so dangerous. Yeah, I mean, it's so.
• 49:03
  Easy to become a cynic. I sometimes wonder if George
• 49:05
  Carlin was around or Bill Hicks if if they discovered Bitcoin,
• 49:09
  would they be as cynical? I mean, it's obviously they're
• 49:13
  sheep, but like, yeah, it that that slide into cynicism, you
• 49:20
  know, where they say scratch a cynic and you'll and you'll,
• 49:23
  you'll come across an idealist, a disappointed idealist.
• 49:26
  Yeah. A.
• 49:27
  Broken hearted idealist. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:31
  And and this is the thing, but in a way, Bitcoin it it also it,
• 49:39
  you can get energy from, from other things as well,
• 49:44
  particularly of a spiritual nature.
• 49:48
  If you, if you lean into that sort of, you know, world and
• 49:53
  it's really the world within you, It's in your heart.
• 49:58
  You just have to turn there. It's pretty easy.
• 50:00
  But yeah, it's it's so cool that to hear that Bitcoin is
• 50:06
  revitalizing and it's given you an energy, a firmer base from
• 50:11
  which to stand on something sound and solid that you can
• 50:15
  stand upon. And whether or not any of it
• 50:17
  comes to fruition in your lifetime, my lifetime, it kind
• 50:21
  of doesn't matter because here and now you can stand upright,
• 50:27
  shoulders back the whole Peterson shtick, you know, and,
• 50:31
  and, and do something that is meaningful and is of net benefit
• 50:37
  to literally everybody else. Because by you interacting with
• 50:41
  the network benefits me by me interacting with it benefits
• 50:44
  you. And anybody listening to this, I
• 50:48
  think it's Max Kaiser who says that, you know, like anyone in.
• 50:52
  Bitcoin is all working for one. Another, and not in some
• 50:55
  socialistic collectivist way, but you know, in a in a way
• 50:59
  where we're all providing value at some point at some, to some
• 51:02
  extent, Yeah. And I mean, you know this.
• 51:05
  Kind of speaks to one of the points in my presentation, you
• 51:10
  know, where I, where I, you know, I started off by
• 51:15
  reflecting that Fiat, the Fiat, the Fiat economy and the Fiat
• 51:20
  culture is or Fiat itself is a corrupt organising principle.
• 51:25
  And So what you get, I believe, is a bunch of, you know, once if
• 51:30
  you have a, if you have a corrupt axiomatic bedrock
• 51:35
  principle, then it's just common sense to, to speculate that
• 51:41
  everything built on top of that is going to be corrupt as well.
• 51:45
  And, you know, Bitcoin as a as as a an axiomatic principle that
• 51:51
  relies on authenticity actually has, you know, the domino effect
• 51:59
  of that is that people are, you know, and I think we, I think we
• 52:04
  both see this in in, you know, in bitcoiners and, and Bush
• 52:08
  bashers in the, in the, in the in the spirit of of that, you
• 52:11
  know, what we see is people acting without perverse
• 52:16
  incentives. You know, the ACT acting from
• 52:19
  authenticity. And, you know, there is on there
• 52:21
  is legitimate, you know, charity and, you know, reciprocity.
• 52:29
  And yeah. And and that's because and
• 52:31
  they're not faking it because it's built on the foundations of
• 52:35
  authenticity. So it just, it just blows
• 52:37
  freely. Now, that doesn't mean, you
• 52:39
  know, I'm not a Pollyanna, right?
• 52:41
  I don't, you know, of course that, you know, people, they can
• 52:43
  be, they can be bitchiness and they can be, you know, human
• 52:46
  beings are human beings and we have a shadow side and so on.
• 52:49
  But what, what you've got on an authentic axiomatic organising
• 52:54
  principle like Bitcoin is, yeah, there's, you know, there may be,
• 52:57
  there may be some dark stuff, but it's not incentivised by
• 53:02
  the, it's not, it's not underwritten by the, by, by the,
• 53:09
  the multidimensional, the multidimensional elements of the
• 53:14
  society like Fiat is. You know, we, we wonder why
• 53:17
  people get so cranky and pissed off and there's so much violence
• 53:20
  and unhappiness and disorder and dysfunction when we're, when
• 53:25
  we're, when we're living in a Fiat society.
• 53:29
  You know, when we look at it that way, it's quite, it's quite
• 53:31
  obvious to see where all the dysfunction and the unhappiness
• 53:34
  comes from. Yeah, like that notion of.
• 53:39
  Fiat like as a what? Is it a prefix when you attach
• 53:46
  it to some like Fiat society, Fiat life, Fiat energy and Fiat
• 53:52
  meaning decree? It's like it's it's kind of like
• 53:55
  those mixed businesses they put up all around the place where
• 53:58
  they'll they'll knock down, you know, some old building or
• 54:01
  whatever that was probably quite beautiful.
• 54:03
  And they'll and they'll spin up some God awful looking buddy
• 54:07
  apartment blocks. And then underneath it, it's
• 54:10
  supposed to be like a restaurant or a cafe, or maybe there's an
• 54:14
  entire by a, you know, section of, of a city that they decide,
• 54:19
  well, here's the waterfront. And what we'll do is we'll knock
• 54:22
  down all of this stuff and we'll, we'll just build it up.
• 54:25
  And then it's kind of like Field of Dreams and, and it just, it
• 54:30
  just fails because it hasn't emerged organically.
• 54:33
  They've decreed this to be a vibrant hub of the city, and
• 54:37
  everyone just goes. It kind of isn't, though.
• 54:41
  And they know it in their heart. And they just don't go there,
• 54:43
  right? Or sometimes they do and it
• 54:45
  lasts for 5 minutes. But it's a Fiat way of thinking,
• 54:49
  like, yeah, market distortion, yeah.
• 54:54
  Yeah. Yeah, just just we're going to
• 54:56
  tell you that this is how society works.
• 54:59
  We're going to tell you that this is how energy works.
• 55:02
  We're going to tell you how like we're decreeing this from on
• 55:05
  high in in the most unauthoritative position like
• 55:12
  ever. If you just peek through the
• 55:14
  value veil is pretty, pretty easy.
• 55:18
  But in your talk you mentioned a term which is stuck with me.
• 55:25
  Woundology. Yes.
• 55:27
  Can you unpack that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:30
  So, so woundology is woundology is a term that was coined by the
• 55:41
  great, great mystical academic called Caroline, Miss.
• 55:46
  And Caroline Miss was a, a kind of, I guess he, I guess she got,
• 55:53
  she got kind of packed in with the self help guru set of the
• 55:57
  90s And she, she wrote, but she's much more than that.
• 56:04
  By the way, as I say, she's a mystical academic.
• 56:07
  You know, she got it. She, she's achieved APHD at the
• 56:11
  highest levels in spirituality and I think comparative
• 56:15
  spirituality. So she's also very, and I know
• 56:18
  you, you mentioned Rumdust earlier on and she's very much
• 56:22
  in the kind of that, that frame as well.
• 56:25
  But she wrote a book in the 90s called Why People Don't Heal and
• 56:30
  How they can. And it, it, it does surprise me
• 56:37
  why she isn't much more of a phenomenon.
• 56:40
  It's, it's funny. There are these kind of sage
• 56:42
  like geniuses that kind of put out this stuff that really
• 56:46
  explains the, the zeitgeist or the spirit of the time.
• 56:50
  But nobody knows about them, you know, and then someone else gets
• 56:53
  boosted who's like a, you know, a possibly a phony or sort of
• 56:58
  like an an Orthoran. But so Caroline misses.
• 57:02
  Yeah, she what? What she wrote about was the.
• 57:08
  The phenomenon that. She as a, and she's also a
• 57:12
  healer, by the way, she was employed as what was known as a
• 57:16
  medical intuitive. And now this, this potentially
• 57:19
  gets a little bit woo woo. So, you know, like apologies to
• 57:23
  that if need be, but so she was employed as a medical intuitive
• 57:27
  and she also used to write and think a lot about the healing,
• 57:32
  the healing community and the kind of self help community that
• 57:35
  that that really emerged in the 80s and 90s.
• 57:39
  And what she began to see in the 90s was that people were.
• 57:48
  Slipping back in their. Progress of healing from the
• 57:54
  80s, like the 70s and the 80s came out of the 60s, which was
• 57:58
  like this huge psychic and spiritual and emotional
• 58:02
  renaissance. But then it started to get Co
• 58:05
  opted and it started to lose its way in the 80s and the 90s.
• 58:09
  And what miss started to she used to give a lot of seminars
• 58:13
  and workshops for people who wanted healing or wanted to be
• 58:17
  healers. And what she started noticing in
• 58:19
  the 90s was people were starting to not talk about and not
• 58:30
  prioritize healing as much as they started to prioritize and
• 58:35
  talk about being wounded, right? And they so victim, victim
• 58:42
  mentality. Right.
• 58:44
  And what and the, the anecdote that she, the anecdote that she
• 58:51
  tells is, you know, she's sitting at A, at a lunch at
• 58:59
  1:00. Of her seminars and.
• 59:00
  One of her good friends is, is chatting with her and a
• 59:04
  colleague comes along and and asks her what she's going to be
• 59:07
  doing next Tuesday. And this friend of Caroline Mr.
• 59:10
  said oh, next Tuesday, next Tuesday, oh, next Tuesday is my
• 59:13
  incest survivor's class. And we promise I can't make that
• 59:18
  appointment that you're asking me about because we promised
• 59:21
  each other that we would never let each other down.
• 59:23
  And Caroline, miss was gobsmacked by that and, and, and
• 59:28
  questioned her friend, just like, why did you you just met
• 59:33
  this you, you already met this guy 30 seconds ago and you just
• 59:36
  told him one of the biggest intimate traumas of your life.
• 59:41
  And why did you do that? You know, and the friends like
• 59:45
  well, got offended like, well, what are you what you know,
• 59:49
  Well, I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, you
• 59:52
  know, and why are you questioning me?
• 59:55
  And what what Caroline Miss was what what she what she ended up
• 59:59
  realizing is that there's a certain there's a certain strain
• 1:00:05
  of humanity that's growing and growing and growing that is much
• 1:00:11
  more interested in. Turning their wounds into power
• 1:00:16
  and currency than they are into genuinely transcending and
• 1:00:20
  healing. And So what I talked about in
• 1:00:23
  the Bush Bush bash is with with wound and it's and mis called it
• 1:00:27
  woundology. It's it's it's a language.
• 1:00:30
  It's a dysfunctional language of intimacy and it's a
• 1:00:34
  dysfunctional emotional currency.
• 1:00:37
  And the way that it works is I, I've got the ABC process, you
• 1:00:42
  know, Person A does something shitty, Person B calls them out
• 1:00:47
  on it. Person A then says, well, hang
• 1:00:50
  on a minute. The reason why I did something
• 1:00:52
  shitty is because of my wound. You know, how dare you call me
• 1:00:56
  out for my bad behaviour when I'm a survivor of childhood
• 1:01:03
  sexual abuse or whatever it is. And then person B says, Oh my
• 1:01:08
  God, I'm so sorry. And then apologizes for calling
• 1:01:12
  out the person A shitty behaviour because they've pulled
• 1:01:14
  out their wound card. And I guess what I'm talking
• 1:01:18
  about with what I'm trying to to talk about with Woundology is if
• 1:01:22
  you, if you see that people being wounded is much more.
• 1:01:29
  Important in our current. Culture than people doing the
• 1:01:32
  work of healing. You actually can kind of see it
• 1:01:35
  everywhere and and we. See Wounded.
• 1:01:39
  People more and more and more everywhere rather than people
• 1:01:44
  actually trying to do the work of healing.
• 1:01:47
  And so, you know, what I talk about in my, in, you know, in
• 1:01:55
  my, in what I speak about in my, in my lecture was in my
• 1:01:58
  presentation was that, you know, we see the language of
• 1:02:01
  woundology in woke culture, for example, you know, in, in, in
• 1:02:06
  intersectional politics, in, in the complaining culture that
• 1:02:12
  revolves around gender grievances around sexuality,
• 1:02:16
  grievances around the transgender issue, the the post
• 1:02:21
  colonial indigenous issue. We see it flowing into our
• 1:02:25
  welfare states such as NDIS and, and it's, and look, let's be
• 1:02:32
  clear. If I have to do the, the, the
• 1:02:36
  disclaimer, of course there are people that are legitimately
• 1:02:42
  suffering wounded and grieving and I'm not having a go at them.
• 1:02:47
  But what I am trying to point out, and what I think Miss is
• 1:02:49
  trying to point out, is that we we do, we do live in a culture
• 1:02:56
  where people are doing their best.
• 1:03:00
  To not get. Better, but actually monetize,
• 1:03:03
  weaponize or create some kind of social currency to do with their
• 1:03:09
  wounds. Because because look how much
• 1:03:12
  power it has in our current political debate.
• 1:03:15
  Look how much power it has in, in, in the language of intimacy,
• 1:03:20
  in relationships, in emotions, you know, and, and, and for a
• 1:03:24
  certain kind of person, who wouldn't want that kind of dark
• 1:03:28
  power? Whereas actually having a look
• 1:03:31
  at yourself, legitimately looking at your own shadow,
• 1:03:34
  looking at your own dark motives and motivations and trying to
• 1:03:38
  change or address or transcend some of those dark things,
• 1:03:42
  that's very hard work. That's very painful.
• 1:03:46
  It's hard. Work and you.
• 1:03:48
  Can't make money off of it. You can't spin up a YouTube
• 1:03:51
  channel, you know and and have a lot of followers almost
• 1:03:59
  instantaneously if you're not leaning into the the the
• 1:04:06
  division. The the the.
• 1:04:08
  Violence, the the ranting and raving.
• 1:04:11
  I know you know, there's plenty of of content.
• 1:04:16
  It's almost like like the Fiat economic system and a lot of
• 1:04:22
  well, yeah, culture was, is downstream from economics.
• 1:04:28
  And so out of that emerges, you know, the things that make most
• 1:04:33
  logical sense within that, within that realm, within that
• 1:04:36
  sphere, within that plane. And so yeah, if you can, it's
• 1:04:42
  almost like it you're disincentivized to look within
• 1:04:48
  and do the work of healing personally, because it's
• 1:04:53
  actually easier to just whinge and whine and maybe spin up a
• 1:04:59
  TikTok or an Instagram or, you know, YouTube or whatever it is
• 1:05:02
  and, and do the same. And you know, you can resonate
• 1:05:05
  with those other beings that are unwilling to sort of confront
• 1:05:11
  that shadow self and do the work.
• 1:05:13
  I mean, you can make money off the other side of things as
• 1:05:16
  well, but it doesn't select for it as much.
• 1:05:19
  And generally speaking, if you started to talk in terms of
• 1:05:26
  Christ teachings or you know, Krishna or any of these sorts of
• 1:05:34
  old, you know. Doctrines of wisdom, you know.
• 1:05:41
  You're you're probably going to be, it's, it's not going to,
• 1:05:44
  it's not going to resonate as as heavily because you do even have
• 1:05:47
  to do the work just to even start to comprehending that sort
• 1:05:50
  of stuff. Like no one's reading psychology
• 1:05:52
  and alchemy by Jung and going, yeah, that's, that's it.
• 1:05:56
  Yeah. That all makes sense.
• 1:05:57
  Like you have to be highly motivated to want to, to want to
• 1:06:00
  dive into that. Yeah.
• 1:06:02
  And that and that kind of work is terrifying.
• 1:06:04
  Concept it's. Terrifying.
• 1:06:06
  Well, that too many people. Because it is confronting to
• 1:06:11
  realize. That you know you aren't
• 1:06:16
  perfect. Do you have faults?
• 1:06:18
  And you might be. That's OK.
• 1:06:19
  You might be the monster. Actually, you know, I mean that.
• 1:06:24
  I mean, gosh, Can you imagine if the politicians.
• 1:06:26
  Honestly, just any old politician pick one.
• 1:06:30
  I did some of that self work. I mean, have you ever seen it?
• 1:06:33
  Like I've God, they must have the most awful samsara.
• 1:06:38
  Like they just keep looping round and around and around.
• 1:06:41
  Well, it Yeah. And I mean for.
• 1:06:43
  For the problem with our woundology culture is that for,
• 1:06:47
  for too many people, it's their only language of intimacy, being
• 1:06:52
  able to kind of wound bond. You know, the, the, it is, it's
• 1:06:59
  the only, it's the only way that someone is able to kind of
• 1:07:03
  express intimacy with other people.
• 1:07:05
  And I'm sorry to say this, but I kind of sorry, not sorry.
• 1:07:09
  I am a critic of the woke culture and the
• 1:07:12
  intersectionality culture because I think too much of that
• 1:07:15
  is just bond is just based on a language of intimacy that is
• 1:07:22
  only ever kind of wound bonding and, and, and not transcendence,
• 1:07:29
  which is what I'm about as a as a, as a psychotherapist.
• 1:07:32
  I am about, you know, I will listen and this is a quote from
• 1:07:38
  Miss by the way. I will listen to you cry for
• 1:07:41
  three times, but then I will love you enough on the fourth
• 1:07:46
  time to walk away because I see the game.
• 1:07:50
  You're playing and. This is a game I don't play
• 1:07:54
  right. And another point.
• 1:07:56
  Another. Point to maybe illustrate
• 1:07:58
  woundology because I'm not quite sure if I fully brought it home
• 1:08:03
  there. Maybe maybe I did, maybe I
• 1:08:04
  didn't. But you know, I often when I'm
• 1:08:06
  talking about this thing in my work, I, you know, you know, or
• 1:08:11
  in my, in my, you know, cultural, political
• 1:08:14
  conversations, you know, I'll say it's a bit like, you know,
• 1:08:17
  you're lying on your psychotherapist couch crying,
• 1:08:24
  you know, and wailing about all of the harm done to you, right.
• 1:08:30
  Because of this or because of that, or because you know, of
• 1:08:33
  your, you know, perhaps of your, your childhood or your, your
• 1:08:39
  abuse or your race or your sex or your this or your that or
• 1:08:44
  whatever. You know your culture with you
• 1:08:48
  know, and you're there lying on your psychoanalyst couch, you
• 1:08:50
  know, crying and bitching and moaning and wailing without
• 1:08:53
  having any idea that up and down the hallway of that
• 1:08:58
  psychological services clinic, in every single room up and down
• 1:09:03
  the hallway are people lying on there crying, crying on there
• 1:09:07
  psycho Wellness psychotherapist couch because of you.
• 1:09:15
  I mean, take that stick. That in your pipe and smoke it,
• 1:09:19
  right? Yeah, it sounds like wound
• 1:09:22
  bonding is. Basically like a brightly
• 1:09:25
  coloured head circle jerk or, you know, an echo chamber where,
• 1:09:30
  yeah, everyone is just patting themselves on the back for being
• 1:09:35
  doing and it's not your fault. I mean, I don't know.
• 1:09:39
  It's very, it's, it's difficult to unpack and I'm I'm not
• 1:09:43
  remotely qualified, but I just, I find, I guess there's certain
• 1:09:49
  certain, I don't know, is it hardware, software, firmware
• 1:09:53
  maybe that people have that enable them to navigate that
• 1:09:59
  better than others? Perhaps.
• 1:10:00
  And maybe it's just a matter of upgrading that software by being
• 1:10:04
  open hearted and open minded enough to seek that information
• 1:10:09
  that may unlock an elevated sense of consciousness where you
• 1:10:14
  could potentially confront some of that shadow and move through
• 1:10:18
  that and. Yeah.
• 1:10:21
  And step through it, you know. Yeah.
• 1:10:24
  Well, yeah, it's. And, and I mean, I, I think, you
• 1:10:29
  know, I think that unfortunately in in our Fiat culture, you
• 1:10:33
  know, it selects for, you know, economically, it selects for
• 1:10:38
  success for people who lie, cheat and steal and, and that
• 1:10:43
  well, yeah, you know, and that and that percolate down into the
• 1:10:47
  psychological, I guess, you know, my hypothesis is that
• 1:10:50
  percolates down into the social realm.
• 1:10:52
  It percolates down into the psychological realm.
• 1:10:55
  And, you know, we wonder about why people are all bent out of
• 1:10:59
  shape psychologically. And I think, you know what,
• 1:11:03
  what, you know, having the rat cunning to to be successful in
• 1:11:08
  high finance and Fiat culture. What does that do to your
• 1:11:11
  psyche? And I, I do, I think that's
• 1:11:14
  where, you know, ultimately that kind of leads to woundology
• 1:11:17
  where, you know, it, it suits me better to stay sick and to bond
• 1:11:23
  over my brokenness than it is to kind of do the really hard work
• 1:11:28
  of actually looking at the role I really play in my own healing
• 1:11:32
  and my own staying sickness. And that's why some people seek
• 1:11:40
  therapy for drug and alcohol addiction.
• 1:11:43
  But many, many people never do, because what you.
• 1:11:47
  Know you take away if you. Take away my my substance abuse,
• 1:11:52
  then I'm going to have to. Contend with myself without.
• 1:11:55
  Self medicating and that is just not I just don't I, I, I'm not
• 1:12:02
  going to do that. It's really.
• 1:12:04
  Hard. It's really hard.
• 1:12:06
  And there's. Different scales and that's one
• 1:12:07
  of the, the more extreme, I guess, levels of confrontation
• 1:12:12
  with the self. And yeah, it, it's not easy.
• 1:12:19
  One of the things I've learned over the last, I don't know, 10
• 1:12:23
  years or so, maybe here and there is basically, given the
• 1:12:28
  fact that we have the Internet, which means we have access to
• 1:12:31
  the entire universe effectively of information, or at least the
• 1:12:35
  history of the planet out of Earth.
• 1:12:37
  There are people that have gone through very similar traumas,
• 1:12:44
  confrontations, experiences that have been unsatisfactory, to put
• 1:12:48
  it kindly. And some of them have come out
• 1:12:51
  the other side and written it down and they've talked about it
• 1:12:56
  and the, the, and I'm talking over like millennia.
• 1:12:59
  You know, I've just finished reading Bhagavad Gita.
• 1:13:03
  Wow. Which is not like like I I got
• 1:13:09
  the the Jack holy version where he basically.
• 1:13:12
  Had studied it for. Ages and then kind of rewrote it
• 1:13:15
  in in a language that is a little bit more a little bit
• 1:13:20
  more salad, you know, palatable. It's kind of like the new new
• 1:13:24
  international version of the Bible.
• 1:13:27
  You know, it's just slightly less esoteric than King James,
• 1:13:30
  which is once again slightly less esoteric.
• 1:13:33
  But anyway, these are like about yogis that are basically, you
• 1:13:38
  know, I had some sort of an experience, said, saw this, I'm
• 1:13:43
  going into the jungle, into the forest, whatever.
• 1:13:45
  And I'm just going to hang out there for a little bit, see what
• 1:13:48
  happens. And, you know, they sit and they
• 1:13:51
  listen. And eventually all of these
• 1:13:53
  truths start to emanate, percolate up.
• 1:13:56
  And over, you know, thousands of years, they've come back and
• 1:13:59
  they've discovered something, they've written it down.
• 1:14:01
  And then it all gets collected in these Upanishads, in these
• 1:14:05
  Vaders, and in one of the, the most well known of the verses,
• 1:14:08
  which is the Bhagavad Gita. And it's, it's kind of like the
• 1:14:11
  Hermetic principles. It's, it's a very similar thing.
• 1:14:14
  There's, there's a set of observations that these beings
• 1:14:19
  have made over a very, very long time.
• 1:14:23
  And they've written them down as kind of like, you know this on
• 1:14:28
  the stone tablets of Moses. Like that's the same kind of
• 1:14:30
  vibe. Basically.
• 1:14:32
  It's like human beings have been dealing with this shit for such
• 1:14:34
  a long time. And if you're cognizant enough
• 1:14:37
  to just reach out and find one of those and hit one of those
• 1:14:40
  whatever residents. But I mean, there is a blocker
• 1:14:43
  as well. Like usually when you're in a
• 1:14:44
  mental, like a, a negative mental health space, it's very
• 1:14:51
  difficult to sort of pull yourself up and find that
• 1:14:53
  motivation, even be bothered to do that.
• 1:14:55
  It's much easier to just retreat.
• 1:14:58
  I I get it, you know, but I don't know, maybe take some
• 1:15:03
  mushrooms that that might help. Why not?
• 1:15:08
  Why not psychedelic assisted psychotherapy, as they say, men.
• 1:15:12
  And I've heard of it. I've heard of it, you know.
• 1:15:15
  And I mean I, yeah. Like, I love you talking about
• 1:15:19
  the spiritual traditions and the religious traditions that have
• 1:15:22
  so much to teach us, you know, ancient traditions, the
• 1:15:27
  judeo-christian and going back, you know, to, to Eastern,
• 1:15:32
  Eastern wisdom and and so on. Yeah, It's it is it, it, it is,
• 1:15:40
  it is, I guess concerning. We, we, you know, it's
• 1:15:43
  interesting that you talk about, you know, we've got the
• 1:15:45
  Internet, we basically got, you know, the entire universe and we
• 1:15:49
  do. But, but, but isn't it
• 1:15:51
  interesting how narrow and shallow and self referential so
• 1:15:55
  much of our culture has has chosen to be in the context of
• 1:16:01
  kind of wisdom and learning and like being contemptuous of these
• 1:16:04
  ancient wisdom traditions and spiritual traditions.
• 1:16:08
  You know, most people have a, a or too many people, you know,
• 1:16:14
  especially in the West. You know, they've got a they've
• 1:16:16
  got a they've got an intellectual curiosity a mile
• 1:16:19
  wide and an inch deep. You know, where, where we
• 1:16:22
  really, we really should. And, you know, really can, you
• 1:16:25
  know, learn from those ancient traditions, those ancient
• 1:16:28
  wisdoms. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:16:30
  Couldn't agree more. Haven't quite got to the
• 1:16:33
  Bhagavad Gita yet myself, though.
• 1:16:35
  Like you're a bit more, you're a bit more ahead of it than very
• 1:16:37
  bad. Well done.
• 1:16:38
  That's good. Wow.
• 1:16:40
  I just. Yeah.
• 1:16:42
  I, I, I reckon there's a quite a lot of, of, of learnings and
• 1:16:46
  teachings from the Austrian school, to be perfectly honest.
• 1:16:49
  You pick up a, a book by Rothbard and if that doesn't
• 1:16:52
  blow your mind, well, you know, you're not, you're not, you're
• 1:16:57
  not reading hard enough. I mean, Hans Hamm and Hoffbart,
• 1:17:00
  gosh. And there's a lot of synergies
• 1:17:02
  between those as well, to be honest.
• 1:17:04
  So you know, the, it's out there.
• 1:17:07
  And if you have the sense. Of will if you can.
• 1:17:12
  Find it. Obviously you don't go from
• 1:17:13
  naughty to 100, but there are just There are ways that you can
• 1:17:19
  make your life better and one of the catalysts is literally
• 1:17:24
  Bitcoin. Once you can comprehend the the
• 1:17:29
  power, I suppose within it or that it can it as you said, it
• 1:17:34
  can revitalize like it it gave you energy again.
• 1:17:37
  It sort of dragged you out of that hole that you were
• 1:17:41
  completely despondent of all the all that hard work that you
• 1:17:44
  spent learning these things, making friends with these
• 1:17:47
  colleagues, writing the reports, doing playing the game, doing
• 1:17:50
  the Lila. And then it just gets completely
• 1:17:53
  rug pulled and no amount of apology or thank, you know, we
• 1:17:58
  appreciate you like it. It's just it was just completely
• 1:18:01
  upended. And there's so many people out
• 1:18:04
  there whose life was completely turned upside down.
• 1:18:07
  And what blows my mind is here we are six years later and
• 1:18:12
  they're like, on what we're going to do now is we're going
• 1:18:14
  to start suppressing like hate speech or whatever.
• 1:18:17
  And and that's that's the fix. And I was like, hang on a
• 1:18:20
  second. You know how many lives you
• 1:18:22
  destroyed in the last six years with your nonsense?
• 1:18:27
  And like, and there's no mere culpa, no accountability, no
• 1:18:30
  nothing. Yes.
• 1:18:31
  So what else is 1 to do but just retreat in inward and finding a
• 1:18:37
  peace in the heart cave? I I don't think.
• 1:18:41
  We're going to get the truth and reconciliation Commission that
• 1:18:46
  we deserve, you know, as voting, taxpaying Australians.
• 1:18:51
  But you know, I, I, to, to your point, you know, with Bitcoin,
• 1:18:57
  you know, you get your, you get your truth and reconciliation
• 1:19:00
  from the, the parallel community of the, of, of, you know, in
• 1:19:04
  Bitcoin. I think you know, and for me,
• 1:19:07
  I've got, you know, I didn't need, I, I don't, I don't need,
• 1:19:13
  you know, it would have been nice if it was going to, if
• 1:19:15
  there was going to be truth and reconciliation, it would have
• 1:19:18
  happened by now. Don't think it's going to
• 1:19:19
  happen. But, you know, I think being a
• 1:19:22
  Bitcoiner is realizing, you know, well, you, we can create
• 1:19:28
  communities that live under truth and reconciliation.
• 1:19:32
  And for the people who don't want that, we can just do our
• 1:19:40
  best to, you know, not not wish them ill will, but to manage
• 1:19:45
  around them, you know, and I think that's what increasingly
• 1:19:49
  we, we as Bitcoiners try to do, you know, we don't, we don't, we
• 1:19:52
  don't, we don't wish, we don't wish others, others who will,
• 1:19:57
  you know, but we, we don't, we don't get sucked in to all of
• 1:20:01
  the to, to the bullshit anymore. Yeah.
• 1:20:05
  No, Literally do no. Harm let let let live, live and
• 1:20:10
  let live etcetera. But yeah, it's kind of like that
• 1:20:15
  that that karma really has to wash off pretty hardcore for a
• 1:20:18
  lot of people because you know, they they were incredibly ill
• 1:20:25
  treated. I don't know it was it was
• 1:20:26
  pretty bad. But again, turning to that's
• 1:20:29
  kind of I guess what Bitcoin has given a lot of people not like
• 1:20:38
  beyond the material wealth and the ability to buy like lots of
• 1:20:44
  things, you know, whatever. I don't know.
• 1:20:48
  Paradoxically, most Bitcoiners actually go the opposite, become
• 1:20:52
  completely dematerial. And isn't that interesting?
• 1:20:54
  Yeah, isn't that. Interesting.
• 1:20:55
  Yeah, which I dig. You know, so it's it's, it's
• 1:21:01
  fascinating. Like honestly, it's, it's the
• 1:21:03
  most extraordinary thing I think that's ever.
• 1:21:05
  Yeah, because bitcoiners don't. Don't feel the need to be
• 1:21:10
  performative in their kind of wealth display.
• 1:21:12
  It's so whereas people in the Fiat world often, you know,
• 1:21:17
  there's a whole sub economy built on, you know, that kind of
• 1:21:21
  that kind of, you know, signalling, you know, kind of
• 1:21:26
  egotistical tingling. It's really, yeah, it's
• 1:21:28
  interesting that Bitcoiners don't really need to do that.
• 1:21:31
  Very, very interesting. The lack of we did touch on it
• 1:21:35
  earlier. But what does Bitcoin?
• 1:21:39
  Mean to you? Yeah.
• 1:21:45
  Yeah, as I, as I said, you know Bitcoin.
• 1:21:48
  Bit what what does Bitcoin is the thing that I've that I was
• 1:21:54
  looking for and I think what what Bitcoin means to me is, you
• 1:22:02
  know, what I was looking for was.
• 1:22:08
  Some a place that. I could.
• 1:22:16
  Put my energy into. A place where I could expressed
• 1:22:23
  my passions and and my. You know one of the one of the
• 1:22:31
  approaches. In my therapy.
• 1:22:33
  That I, that I really like it's, it's actually a legitimate
• 1:22:36
  approach called no bullshit therapy and look it up.
• 1:22:40
  It's, it's actually, it's actually put together by a
• 1:22:44
  clinical psychologist, very renowned.
• 1:22:47
  And you know, no bullshit therapy is about, you know,
• 1:22:50
  it's, it's pretty simple. It's about I'm going to be no
• 1:22:52
  bullshit with you as your therapist.
• 1:22:54
  And I hope in return you're going to be no bullshit with me
• 1:22:57
  as a, as my client, You know, to the best of your ability,
• 1:23:00
  knowing that, you know, there's always some stuff that's secret.
• 1:23:03
  And you know what, what you know, I found it increasingly
• 1:23:08
  harder to kind of exist and work in in in a, a sector that was
• 1:23:18
  that was not. Authentic and was so full of
• 1:23:20
  bullshit. As as referenced by the by, by
• 1:23:22
  the COVID debacle where they kind of did a whole lot of fake
• 1:23:26
  stuff that wasn't really real. And, you know, getting out of
• 1:23:29
  that and, and, and merging as a private therapist in private
• 1:23:32
  practice where I'm free to kind of, you know, do no bullshit
• 1:23:35
  therapy and practice authenticity.
• 1:23:37
  What Bitcoin means to me is it's sort of like it, it, it gives me
• 1:23:41
  a the kind of undergirding to be authentic and, you know, to work
• 1:23:50
  with authenticity, you know, to save with authenticity, to
• 1:23:54
  believe in the future, to pass something down with my kids.
• 1:23:58
  That's not like inflating, deflating or inflating into,
• 1:24:02
  into nothingness. And you know, So what Bitcoin
• 1:24:06
  means for me is, is the ability to kind of like say what I mean
• 1:24:11
  and, and, and, and mean what I say and kind of live and work
• 1:24:14
  and be with authenticity. That's what that's.
• 1:24:19
  What Bitcoin means to me. Yeah.
• 1:24:21
  And you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, when you,
• 1:24:27
  when you get orange peeled, you, you realise how important that
• 1:24:29
  is and how little of that is in the Fiat culture, unfortunately.
• 1:24:36
  Yeah, it's it's Sue, but we can. Get that and we can find.
• 1:24:40
  That and we can make that in whatever way is real for us.
• 1:24:45
  You know it with, without, with the undergirding of this thumb,
• 1:24:48
  this amazing invention, this. Amazing thing for.
• 1:24:53
  Bitcoin, for me anyway, that's what that's what it means for
• 1:24:56
  me, A returned. Authenticity.
• 1:24:59
  That's one of the. Coolest answers I think.
• 1:25:02
  Oh, awesome man, awesome. Well, I just I because I.
• 1:25:07
  I've always had this this thing with authenticity and maybe it's
• 1:25:12
  kind of like part of that, you know, whole kind of culture,
• 1:25:17
  alternative music, it's all sort of an outgrowth of that.
• 1:25:21
  But I mean, like, I can, I can, for instance, OK, Britney Spears
• 1:25:27
  is authentic. She's an authentic pop star,
• 1:25:29
  amazing, amazing pop star. Lane Stanley from Alice In
• 1:25:34
  Chains is an authentic singer. Like incredible.
• 1:25:38
  They're the same. They're the same thing.
• 1:25:39
  They they come from disparate worlds.
• 1:25:41
  It's not about it's not about one being cooler than the other.
• 1:25:44
  They're being true to themselves and to their to their craft.
• 1:25:49
  And I remember doing a, a you need like one of my teachers
• 1:25:54
  when I did my degree, I was reading the book The
• 1:25:58
  authenticity Hoax, I think, let me just look this up, Andrew
• 1:26:04
  Potter. And basically the entire thesis
• 1:26:07
  of that book was that, you know, it's all a load of nonsense.
• 1:26:11
  And he called out things like organic food and, you know, all
• 1:26:17
  of these sort of these, these, the culture retreating to
• 1:26:20
  something real, to something true, to something genuine, to
• 1:26:23
  something authentic as being bullshit.
• 1:26:26
  And I just did not agree with with the book.
• 1:26:29
  And but I couldn't articulate why or how.
• 1:26:33
  I just didn't go deep enough. And like, ever since sort of, I
• 1:26:37
  guess, discovering Bitcoin and then talking to people like
• 1:26:40
  yourself and others all around the world are all incredibly
• 1:26:42
  genuine human beings. They're down home.
• 1:26:45
  True. Like people that are, you know,
• 1:26:49
  no bullshit. There's no, there's no bullshit
• 1:26:51
  about them. And it's, it's so refreshing.
• 1:26:56
  And it all comes from the fact that we all happen to like the
• 1:26:58
  same money. I don't know.
• 1:27:00
  Yeah, absolutely, man. And you know, I, and I do
• 1:27:05
  actually think, you know, all human beings want that and need
• 1:27:11
  that too. And I do actually think, you
• 1:27:14
  know, some people, some people were red pilled 20 years before
• 1:27:21
  you and me. You know, they, you know, they,
• 1:27:24
  they got it a long time before I I, I was red pilled, you know,
• 1:27:29
  through the through the the craziness of COVID and you know,
• 1:27:36
  there there'll be there'll be lots of people who you know,
• 1:27:39
  they do believe, you know, they're going along paying their
• 1:27:41
  taxes, you know, living their kind of neo matrix kind of life,
• 1:27:46
  thinking they're doing the right thing and one and one day,
• 1:27:48
  sooner or later, something will happen to them where the it'll
• 1:27:52
  be the record scratch. You know, like, holy shit, you
• 1:27:56
  know, this is I'm not. I'm not.
• 1:27:59
  Living the kind of life that I thought I was.
• 1:28:01
  I'm not I'm not in the kind of society that I thought I was.
• 1:28:04
  The politicians are actually lying to us all the time, you
• 1:28:06
  know, and, and, and pretty much so is everybody else.
• 1:28:10
  And that is when, if they're lucky, they.
• 1:28:17
  They they will. Have the opportunity to discover
• 1:28:21
  the you know this amazing orange little portal to authenticity
• 1:28:29
  that we've been so lucky to to to stumble across imagine what
• 1:28:34
  it would have been like, you know 40 years ago you know
• 1:28:38
  realizing. That kind of stuff, you know?
• 1:28:41
  Oi would have been 30 years ago. Whatever you know, before 2009
• 1:28:45
  the cypherpunks were. Well ahead of their time.
• 1:28:48
  Interesting. You know, there's a bunch.
• 1:28:51
  Of. A bunch of folk that were, you
• 1:28:53
  know, I guess they all had access to to reasonably priced
• 1:28:57
  homes though. So you know, trade-offs, right?
• 1:29:03
  The median house price was slightly smaller.
• 1:29:06
  Back then, so they could they could rail against the system
• 1:29:09
  and, you know, afford to live somewhere.
• 1:29:13
  Jeremy, thank you so much for spending some scarce time
• 1:29:16
  finding out energy telling us the tale of how you discovered
• 1:29:19
  Bitcoin. It's been an honor, a pleasure.
• 1:29:22
  I'm going to have to look up Carolyn Miss and revitalizing
• 1:29:27
  Bitcoin mate, actually if you're Caroline.
• 1:29:29
  Miss Legend if I recommend, she's even better in her live
• 1:29:35
  lectures than she is in written form.
• 1:29:37
  So if you can go back and get her.
• 1:29:40
  Why people don't heal live lecture?
• 1:29:43
  Like I highly recommend she's she's she's she's a little bit
• 1:29:49
  she's a lot for these times. But I think if you're a true
• 1:29:53
  truth seeker and you're a true I like what you know, like if
• 1:30:00
  you're someone that really does is is open to wisdom from
• 1:30:05
  whatever age, you know, she's the real deal.
• 1:30:08
  Absolutely. So I highly recommend her and
• 1:30:10
  DJ. Thank you, mate.
• 1:30:11
  I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity.
• 1:30:14
  I hope it made some sense. Yeah, I hope I was able to kind
• 1:30:18
  of articulate my my stuff a bit. But yeah, thank you for all you
• 1:30:22
  do man, and giving me a chance to to do it with you tonight.