Latest / Karl and Crew / Addressing Antisemitism with Dr. Michael Rydelnik; Pursuing God's Vision with Dr. Gregg Allgood; and 4 Key Principles of Prayer with Greg Dempster
Transcript
- 0:01S1: Coming to you live in studio. It's Carl and crew
- 0:05S1: on Moody Radio.
- 0:07S2: Well, it's so good to get Ali back in the
- 0:09S2: studio here and. Super. Oh that's right. It was me
- 0:14S2: that was gone. Excuse me. Yeah. Yeah. I realize how
- 0:20S2: much I love you guys and routines. Their routines are good.
- 0:25S2: Routines are good. Even if they're early morning, they're good. And, um. Yeah,
- 0:29S2: it's good to be back in the saddle again.
- 0:33S3: Good to have you back.
- 0:34S2: Yeah, it's good to be back here. Good to be
- 0:36S2: with family for a week or so. And see my
- 0:39S2: bride's mom and dad and see how they're doing and just, uh,
- 0:44S2: help them get around a little bit and have a
- 0:46S2: little connection time. That was valuable. It's good to connect
- 0:49S2: with family guys.
- 0:50S3: Absolutely.
- 0:51S2: Yeah. Yeah. And family comes with all kinds of cool
- 0:55S2: twists and turns. You know that, right?
- 0:57S3: Oh, that's another show. No twists and turns. Twists and turns. Yeah.
- 1:03S2: We're talking core truths this week. Why in the world
- 1:05S2: would we talk core truths as opposed to all truth? Allie.
- 1:09S3: Come on. I mean, you.
- 1:10S4: When you have to reduce it down, you want to
- 1:12S4: find out what is the most important. What are the
- 1:15S4: most important things to focus on?
- 1:18S2: Yeah. It's, you know, the interesting thing about truth and
- 1:22S2: opinions and all those things that we have is, I mean,
- 1:26S2: we can really, we can set ourselves up for some
- 1:30S2: grave disappointment because we can have truth that we anchor
- 1:35S2: on and that's dynamite. But if we're not careful, we
- 1:38S2: can begin to create kind of sides, as it were.
- 1:42S2: I've got my side and I've got those people that
- 1:45S2: we're against here. And the interesting thing is that in
- 1:49S2: Joshua chapter five, we find, uh, something that's that's amazing. Joshua.
- 1:56S2: And about 40,000 fighting men are about to go do
- 1:59S2: a conquest of Jericho. And just outside Gilgal, Joshua runs
- 2:05S2: into a christophany, which is Christ himself. And he's wielding
- 2:11S2: a sword. As a matter of fact, let me go
- 2:14S2: ahead and open up the text here. Joshua was by Jericho.
- 2:19S2: He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a
- 2:21S2: man was standing before him with a drawn sword in
- 2:24S2: his hand. And Joshua went to him and said, and
- 2:26S2: by the way, I don't blame him for saying this.
- 2:27S2: I see a guy with a drawn sword. I'm going
- 2:29S2: to ask the same question, are you for us or
- 2:32S2: for our adversaries? And the Lord Jesus Christ said, no,
- 2:38S2: I am the commander of the army of the Lord.
- 2:42S2: Now I have come. And Joshua fell, whose face the
- 2:46S2: earth took off his sandals, because he said, Jesus had
- 2:48S2: said to him, this is holy ground here. Almost all
- 2:51S2: theologians believe this is a christophany. It's a vision of
- 2:55S2: Christ obviously appearing as a warrior. And the the interesting
- 3:01S2: question that is asked is, and it's the right one,
- 3:04S2: are you for or against us? And the answer that
- 3:07S2: God gives us through this christophany this meeting with Jesus
- 3:11S2: is no. And what that means is this I sought
- 3:17S2: through sides, and I stand and anchor myself on truth
- 3:21S2: in the. The danger with getting sides is pretty quick.
- 3:25S2: You can get. You can accumulate all these convictions and
- 3:28S2: positions that you hold about everything theological, social, right. I mean,
- 3:35S2: relational and pretty quick, you can really set yourself up
- 3:39S2: for for challenges. And it's due in large part to
- 3:42S2: the fact that, you know, when we, when we ask
- 3:46S2: God to take our side, but then our side loses,
- 3:50S2: as we find in Hebrews 11, it didn't come always
- 3:53S2: out as victory. In fact, most often not for those
- 3:56S2: that were the faithful in Christ Jesus. So it's always
- 4:01S2: good to stop and go, God, what is your will here?
- 4:05S2: Not what is my will, not what is my side,
- 4:08S2: but what your will here. And and that's what we
- 4:11S2: want to do with core truths is boil it down
- 4:14S2: to what are the essentials of faith? And can we
- 4:20S2: get camped on those? Because it's easy to get off
- 4:23S2: into the squiggly woods of how many angels can sit
- 4:27S2: on the tip of a needle, right? I mean, you
- 4:31S2: can get into weird, weird stuff. And the interesting thing
- 4:36S2: about core truths is the older I get, the more narrow,
- 4:41S2: I don't know, let's let's go this way, the shorter
- 4:44S2: my doctrinal statement has become, but the more solid I
- 4:48S2: am around those things. And it's a it's a beautiful privilege.
- 4:52S2: So we've got an opportunity this week to bring on
- 4:55S2: guests to open the word and say, what are the
- 4:58S2: core truths? The interesting thing about core truths that I've
- 5:02S2: found is that you take the issue of, let's just say, eschatology,
- 5:08S2: end times theology. When's the Lord returning? When is he
- 5:12S2: coming back? What's going to be happening around those events?
- 5:15S2: And here's what I found. That's kind of funny. People
- 5:18S2: that are fairly compared to theologians that have researched these
- 5:24S2: deeper things for years and years, people that are more
- 5:28S2: novice at it actually get a little more table pounding
- 5:33S2: about it. The older people get, the less they get
- 5:38S2: wrinkled up about it. Isn't that interesting?
- 5:41S3: Yeah, it's.
- 5:42S4: It's very true. I mean, there's something about a mature,
- 5:46S4: seasoned saint who has, like you said, those core convictions
- 5:51S4: and holds them deeply and doesn't compromise on them. Yeah,
- 5:54S4: but also isn't going to flip a table every time
- 5:58S4: they meet somebody who doesn't see it exactly the way
- 6:01S4: that they do.
- 6:02S2: It's funny that you say that because flipping tables get is,
- 6:06S2: is oftentimes kind of the.
- 6:08S4: The excuse that people use.
- 6:10S2: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of the proof text. It's like, well,
- 6:13S2: Jesus flipped over the tables. Well, be careful with that. Yeah.
- 6:17S2: I mean, it was, it was in one situation where
- 6:21S2: he did this a couple of times, two days, uh,
- 6:24S2: where he came in and opened a can and said,
- 6:26S2: come on, this is a house of prayer. You've turned
- 6:28S2: it into a den of thieves. So it's, it's dangerous
- 6:32S2: because more often than not, and remember, those were religious
- 6:36S2: Pharisees who had really sullied the temple courts, and they
- 6:42S2: had turned it into a profit making enterprise for Passover,
- 6:48S2: giving away sacrifices at a very high premium because they
- 6:52S2: knew people couldn't travel to Jerusalem, to which many didn't
- 6:56S2: travel with their sacrifices. So it's like, hey, we got
- 6:58S2: an opportunity to gouge them. So Jesus has taken on
- 7:02S2: the religious elite with a very clear problem that was
- 7:07S2: going on. Now, the interesting thing is, if you look
- 7:10S2: at Christ, he was very patient for different theological positions,
- 7:15S2: even ones that were totally twisted and wrong. He was
- 7:19S2: very loving, very kind, very compassionate, very chill compared to
- 7:24S2: sometimes what we become. I remember when I was a
- 7:27S2: freshman in college, ooh, baby. Oh, the freshman came in
- 7:32S2: and they got on high horses. And I remember calling
- 7:35S2: the president of the Bible College, uh, a few, uh,
- 7:39S2: one year after I graduated from Bible college. And I
- 7:43S2: had to apologize for one thing. And I said, Doctor
- 7:46S2: Joe's doctor, Joe Aldrich at Multnomah Bible College. Great man
- 7:50S2: of God. I said, I just want to apologize so
- 7:53S2: much for what I was as a student body president
- 7:56S2: and got on my high horse and all that. And
- 7:58S2: he said, oh, I forgive you, Carl. He said, but
- 8:01S2: but you need to know something. I got a whole
- 8:03S2: new crop of freshmen that came in this year. I
- 8:09S2: got a whole new crop of you crazies that showed up.
- 8:12S2: So it's fascinating coming up here in a moment. Let's
- 8:15S2: get Doctor Michael Ray in here. What do you say.
- 8:17S4: Let's have him weigh in on some core truths.
- 8:19S2: Yeah core truths week guys. Let's get anchored on what
- 8:22S2: really matters. Going to be going after it all week.
- 8:25S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
- 8:28S1: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
- 8:32S2: We're called in Ephesians and many places in Scripture that
- 8:37S2: this desire to not only sing songs of praise to God,
- 8:41S2: but to one another. One of the things that requires
- 8:44S2: is that we're locked at the hip around a few
- 8:46S2: things and not divided over what I would call lesser
- 8:50S2: important issues. We're talking core truths this whole week. It's interesting. Michael,
- 8:55S2: I want to go back to when you were a
- 8:57S2: freshman in Bible college back in the day. It seems
- 9:00S2: like freshmen come in with an opinion on almost any
- 9:04S2: theological topic there is out there, and they're more dogmatic
- 9:07S2: than guys that have been doing it for 40 years.
- 9:09S2: What do you say? Why is that, Michael?
- 9:11S5: Because we don't know anything.
- 9:13S2: And we think we do.
- 9:16S5: The more you learn, the less. The more you learn.
- 9:18S5: The less you realize the real, the more you realize,
- 9:20S5: the less you know.
- 9:22S2: You know what? That that is so true. And and
- 9:26S2: the less argumentative you are with people that hold a
- 9:29S2: different view. Yeah, yeah. What is that all about? Is
- 9:34S2: it just a spiritual trajectory thing? What's going on with that?
- 9:38S5: Well, I actually think that that's why Paul says, don't
- 9:41S5: let a novice become an elder because they don't know
- 9:44S5: anything yet, but they think they know everything and. And
- 9:48S5: that's a good thing to remember. And then also, uh,
- 9:51S5: I think that as you grow spiritually, you have greater
- 9:54S5: tolerance for, uh, others who, who may differ with you,
- 9:59S5: I think. Yeah. And now the thing is, there's certain
- 10:03S5: core truths of scripture.
- 10:06S2: You gotta hold on to that.
- 10:08S5: You got to hold on to, and I will argue it.
- 10:10S5: I won't be obnoxious. I can be brothers with someone
- 10:12S5: that disagrees with me about them. But, uh, I tell
- 10:16S5: you what I was just doing, I was just reading. I'm,
- 10:19S5: I'm reading through Ezekiel right now. I was reading the
- 10:21S5: Bible right before we talked. And, and this is not
- 10:26S5: what I planned on talking about for my core truth, but, uh,
- 10:29S5: here's what I was reading. Uh, it says that Moab
- 10:32S5: says in Ezekiel 25, uh, look, the house, this is
- 10:36S5: what Moab says, behold, because Moab and Seir said, look,
- 10:41S5: the house of Judah is like all the other nations. Therefore,
- 10:44S5: I'm about to expose Moab's flank, beginning from its frontier cities.
- 10:48S5: The pride of the land, basically. God says, I'm going
- 10:50S5: to judge Moab because they didn't recognize my covenant with Israel.
- 10:54S5: They say like Israel is like every other nation. Yeah. And,
- 10:59S5: you know, that's something that I have spent a lifetime
- 11:02S5: trying to tell people, no, you can't just say God's
- 11:05S5: done with Israel. He still has a plan with Israel,
- 11:08S5: and Israel has God. God has a special concern there.
- 11:12S5: And still, you know, I know there are people who
- 11:16S5: are brothers and sisters in the Lord who disagree with me,
- 11:18S5: and I can love them in the Lord. But this
- 11:21S5: is a core truth that God warns Moab about, and
- 11:24S5: I think we need to be concerned with. So those
- 11:26S5: are some of the things that. But that's. I was
- 11:28S5: just reading Ezekiel. What do you do at 530 in
- 11:31S5: the morning? Michael read Ezekiel 25. So.
- 11:35S2: Well, that was in Joshua five. So we're all over
- 11:37S2: the place.
- 11:38S4: Doctor Michael Riedel with us this morning, professor emeritus of
- 11:41S4: Jewish studies here at Moody Bible Institute. I'm curious, Doctor Riedel,
- 11:45S4: what are maybe give us 1 or 2 things that
- 11:48S4: a much younger Michael would was a fist was fist
- 11:53S4: pounding passionate about.
- 11:54S2: You're going to get a confession out of him.
- 11:56S4: And now. And so these would not be the what
- 11:59S4: you would now say are the core truths. But maybe, uh,
- 12:03S4: younger you would have gotten fired up about are you
- 12:06S4: willing to give us 1 or 2?
- 12:07S5: Sure. I'll tell you a core truth, I haven't changed.
- 12:09S5: And when I did, okay, I haven't changed my opinion,
- 12:12S5: but I'm not as fired up about it. Okay. Okay.
- 12:15S5: So first of all, the core truth that I've put
- 12:19S5: my whole life on, it's it's central to my whole
- 12:22S5: life is that Jesus is the Messiah revealed in the
- 12:27S5: Hebrew Scriptures. I really argued, I thought I couldn't be
- 12:32S5: Jewish and believe in Jesus. It was a terrible thing
- 12:35S5: when my mom came out with her faith and then
- 12:38S5: by studying messianic prophecy. I planted the flag. I came
- 12:42S5: to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And then, you know,
- 12:45S5: I've encountered Old Testament scholars that say, oh, the Hebrew
- 12:49S5: Bible isn't messianic. It doesn't point forward to the Messiah.
- 12:52S5: It's just sort of symbolic. And no, I've I've planted
- 12:57S5: the flag and I, I've written books about it. I
- 13:00S5: you know what I'm saying? It's this is something that's,
- 13:02S5: that's a core truth for me. And I will proclaim it, uh,
- 13:06S5: and argue it. Uh, when I first came to the Lord,
- 13:10S5: I was pushed, uh, prodded to receive a second blessing
- 13:17S5: with evidence of, uh, of speaking in tongues. Yeah. And
- 13:25S5: I tried and tried and tried. It didn't happen for me.
- 13:30S5: And then I was told I was demonized and they
- 13:32S5: were going to cast out demons because I wasn't speaking
- 13:35S5: in tongues. And, you know, finally I thought, oh, this
- 13:38S5: is ridiculous. And I became quite what I would say,
- 13:42S5: hostile to those who held that view.
- 13:44S2: Yes. That's not healthy either, is it?
- 13:46S5: Yeah. But now I don't care. You know, you, you know,
- 13:49S5: whatever people want to say about that. I'll teach them
- 13:52S5: the scriptures. I won't argue about it. Uh, but so
- 13:57S5: that's one of those things I was really, really feisty about.
- 14:00S5: If you go back about 50 years.
- 14:02S3: But.
- 14:03S5: Not now.
- 14:04S3: Thank you for sharing that.
- 14:06S2: Yeah. No, that's that's, that's a good one. And I,
- 14:08S2: and I'm thankful that a lot of people that, uh,
- 14:11S2: have held positions on tongues, those camps used to be
- 14:14S2: really divided. It was a necessary evidence of salvation. And
- 14:18S2: there's certain denominations for which I will not cite. There's
- 14:21S2: no need for that, that that have loosened that position
- 14:24S2: radically as of late, which is good, isn't it, Michael?
- 14:27S5: Well, you know, because we agree on the essentials, we agree.
- 14:31S5: And and so that's a secondary issue for me. And,
- 14:35S5: you know, again, I haven't changed my opinion about all
- 14:38S5: believers fully having the Holy Spirit when we come to
- 14:41S5: believe in Jesus. I haven't in Romans eight nine, it says,
- 14:44S5: if you don't have the Spirit of Christ, you don't
- 14:46S5: belong to him. So I, I know what I know
- 14:49S5: about this. However, you know, I have friends who are
- 14:54S5: fighting the good fight and they are of a different
- 14:59S5: mind about this than I am. But they're really committed,
- 15:04S5: growing wonderful followers of Jesus. And I'm not going to
- 15:08S5: argue with them about that.
- 15:09S2: Michael, that's so healthy. That's so healthy. Because if we
- 15:14S2: if we start splitting sheets over these things, yeah, we
- 15:17S2: get on some pretty narrow terra firma here, buddy. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
- 15:22S2: Coming up, coming up here in a moment. Uh, Michael.
- 15:25S2: Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick here. Just great man of God,
- 15:28S2: great passion. Core truth Around Jew hatred. You're not even
- 15:35S2: calling it an anti-Semitism anymore. And we're going to tackle
- 15:39S2: that one head on. And we've got a phenomenal resource
- 15:42S2: for you that you're going to want to get a
- 15:44S2: link to. Hang on. Uh, Michael Redlick is with us
- 15:47S2: right now, and he's no longer calling it anti-Semitism, although
- 15:51S2: there's a summit titled with that word but Jew hatred. Michael,
- 15:56S2: I've got one one thing I want you to do
- 15:59S2: for me at your summit, and I hope you planned
- 16:01S2: on it, because the title of the summit that's coming
- 16:04S2: up is is opposing the new Christian anti-Semitism. Mhm. I,
- 16:10S2: I think that we need to get air quotes around
- 16:13S2: Christian because I, I don't believe that, Michael, I don't
- 16:16S2: believe you can be a disciple of Jesus Christ. And
- 16:19S2: maybe that's the difference.
- 16:20S5: Professing Christian.
- 16:22S2: I do I really believe that, brother. I mean, it's
- 16:25S2: just what's going on with Jew hatred is, to me
- 16:31S2: revelatory that these people do not know Christ, their Christian name.
- 16:34S5: Only one of. Well, what they do, and this is
- 16:37S5: how it is justified by some people who profess to
- 16:40S5: be followers of Jesus. First of all, they say that
- 16:43S5: the church is Israel, and therefore it's okay to hate
- 16:47S5: Israel because they're not Israel anymore. That's one way. A
- 16:51S5: second way they say that. And when I say the
- 16:54S5: word Israel, I don't mean the modern nation state in
- 16:57S5: the Middle East. That's part of Israel. I mean ethnic Israel,
- 17:01S5: the Jewish people around the globe. So they feel like
- 17:04S5: it's okay to justify it justifies their hatred because, hey,
- 17:08S5: we're the Israel, they're not Israel. The second way they
- 17:11S5: do it is say, they say the Jewish people aren't
- 17:13S5: actually the descendants of the Jewish people of the Bible.
- 17:18S5: Have you heard that one?
- 17:19S2: Yeah, I have.
- 17:20S5: I mean, the Khazars are the Jewish people that a
- 17:25S5: Turkic people in near Ukraine and Turkey, that area that
- 17:29S5: they converted as a kingdom. And all the Jewish people
- 17:32S5: that you see today are actually descendants of that non-Jewish kingdom,
- 17:38S5: which has been proven false. A number of ways. This idea.
- 17:42S5: First of all, by genetics. Genetic science has shown this.
- 17:47S5: This is ridiculous. The Jewish people are the Jewish people
- 17:50S5: from that land of Israel. And genetics actually shows it.
- 17:53S5: And DNA studies. But also there's no Turkic elements in
- 17:57S5: any Jewish language. It's it's just you would expect that,
- 18:02S5: but it's not there. So anyway, that's that's the second
- 18:06S5: way they justify it and then they take a third
- 18:09S5: way is they take verses out of context from the Bible,
- 18:14S5: like in revelation two nine and three nine, where it
- 18:16S5: calls certain people the synagogue of Satan. And then they say,
- 18:22S5: this verse applies to all Jewish people. So Jesus hates
- 18:26S5: the Jewish people, so I should too. And those are
- 18:28S5: the three ways that they justify it. Of course, revelation
- 18:31S5: 2939 says of these Jewish people who are the synagogue
- 18:34S5: of Satan. They say they are Jews, but they are not.
- 18:38S5: Meaning that they're likely Gentile converts to Judaism who are
- 18:43S5: saying things like, oh, you need to convert to Judaism
- 18:46S5: first before you can believe in Jesus. They were the Galatians. Uh,
- 18:51S5: a generation later, uh, the legalists there, and they weren't
- 18:54S5: even Jewish. But even so, even if they were Jews,
- 18:58S5: which I don't believe, that's what that passage is saying
- 19:00S5: in revelation two nine and three nine. But if they were,
- 19:03S5: it's only a group right there that were at odds
- 19:06S5: with the church. It's not all Jewish people all over
- 19:08S5: the place. Yeah. Look at how many synagogues the Lord
- 19:10S5: Jesus taught in all over Galilee. Would he go to
- 19:13S5: the synagogue of Satan? Come on. Yeah. So anyway, that's
- 19:16S5: how they that's how they justify it. It is horrific.
- 19:20S5: And that's why they are very loud. They're angry at
- 19:23S5: Jewish people because they don't believe in Jesus. Instead of
- 19:26S5: proclaiming Jesus in a loving way.
- 19:28S4: So coming up here at Moody Bible Institute, right here
- 19:31S4: in Chicago on November 7th, it's a Saturday, the Moody
- 19:34S4: Summit opposing the new Christian anti Semitism doctor Nick, one
- 19:38S4: of the speakers also Doctor Everett Piper, doctor Mark Yarborough,
- 19:42S4: Doctor William Washington, Aaron Shust is going to be providing
- 19:45S4: the worship. What are you hoping that that comes out
- 19:49S4: of this. Obviously anyone who has a wants to stand
- 19:52S4: with the Jewish people who wants to oppose this new
- 19:56S4: Christian or professing Christian anti Semitism. What's the goal of
- 20:00S4: the day?
- 20:01S5: Well, we want to inform, obviously, because there are people
- 20:04S5: who aren't aware of how big this has become. Uh,
- 20:07S5: and it is growing. Uh, there's a real problem. For example,
- 20:12S5: we want to inform people at Christian colleges, a lot
- 20:16S5: of young men are embracing what are called the groypers, uh,
- 20:20S5: these right wing haters of the Jewish people. Yeah. Extreme
- 20:25S5: right wing. And I've I've talked to several people at
- 20:28S5: several Christian colleges where the young men are just embracing this,
- 20:33S5: almost a neo-Nazi ideology. So that is, uh, going to
- 20:39S5: inform people about what's going on across the board. And so,
- 20:42S5: but then mobilize we want people to have the tools
- 20:47S5: so they can speak up, they can influence, they can
- 20:49S5: get their churches to be concerned about it because a
- 20:52S5: lot of churches are just saying, you know, we're just
- 20:53S5: going to keep our mouths shut about this. So what
- 20:55S5: we want to do is help mobilize people so they
- 20:59S5: can actually do something about it. So that we're not
- 21:01S5: like the church in Germany in 19 in the 1930s
- 21:04S5: that said, well, you know, this is not my business. So, uh, that's,
- 21:08S5: that's what we want to do. I do have some,
- 21:09S5: some good news, though, for listeners who want to be
- 21:12S5: part of this. If they sign up, you can go to,
- 21:16S5: I think you have a link on your. Yes, we do,
- 21:18S5: but if you when you register, if you put the
- 21:21S5: code radio 20, you get 20% off on the registration suite. Okay.
- 21:27S5: That's that's I hope that's a motivation for people to come.
- 21:31S2: Yeah, so I do as well. A quick 1/32 question here.
- 21:35S2: You know, a lot of issues of apologetics and, uh,
- 21:39S2: whether I mean, whether it's, uh, creationists who are debating, uh,
- 21:46S2: the common atheists of our day, a lot of those
- 21:49S2: discussions seem futile. Have you seen people sobered up as
- 21:54S2: you've talked with them or heard that there is a
- 21:57S2: turning of mind around on this issue?
- 22:00S5: Yeah. You know, there are people that get very angry
- 22:02S5: at me. I was, you know, I wrote this book, uh,
- 22:04S5: what should Christians think about Israel? And I was speaking
- 22:08S5: at a church and, uh, someone actually a Christian leader
- 22:13S5: stood up and said, why do you have to say
- 22:16S5: it matters? Why do you have to say it matters
- 22:18S5: because of all these verses. You're just. He wanted to
- 22:22S5: dismiss me as just a dispensationalist and he said, Jewish
- 22:25S5: people are made in the image of God. We should
- 22:27S5: be against hatred of Jewish people just for that reason alone.
- 22:29S5: And stop raising all these other questions. Why do you
- 22:32S5: raise it? I said, well, first of all, I'm showing
- 22:33S5: you what the Bible says. I'm not trying to give
- 22:36S5: a distinctive theology. And then I cited, which is really important.
- 22:40S5: There are a lot of great scholars like Douglas Moo, Thomas, uh,
- 22:44S5: Thomas Schreiner and others who I cited who point out
- 22:48S5: those verses that I was talking about, about Israel in
- 22:51S5: the New Testament, the same way I do. And they
- 22:53S5: are not they're not dispensationalists. They're just biblicist. And so
- 22:57S5: what I am seeing is that there are people who
- 23:00S5: are initially reluctant to hear this. And then when they
- 23:06S5: see that there is a broad swath of biblical commentators
- 23:11S5: who hold all kinds of different theological perspectives and hermeneutics
- 23:15S5: or interpretive methods that they agree. Okay, now. Now they
- 23:19S5: understand that this is a serious problem.
- 23:21S2: Dynamite. All right, we got a link for you guys. Boom! Crew.
- 23:24S2: This is important here. Text the keyword summit. Summit to
- 23:28S2: 805 557898. Summit to 805 5578, 98. When you get
- 23:37S2: that thing opened up, guess what we've got this morning, Ali.
- 23:40S4: Yeah, that radio 20, that's going to be your discount code. Uh,
- 23:44S4: because you heard it here on Moody Radio. So just
- 23:46S4: text summit to 805 557898. Be sure to use that
- 23:51S4: promo code.
- 23:53S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
- 23:56S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
- 23:59S2: So I got a funny core truths kind of correlation here.
- 24:02S2: You know, the, the cool thing about, uh, you've noticed
- 24:06S2: this raising kids, Ali when, when kids start to understand
- 24:10S2: how life works and they start to get some patterns
- 24:13S2: of health, they get more boundaries, right?
- 24:15S4: Yes, I give me an example.
- 24:17S2: They get a little more latitude like, uh, well, let's
- 24:20S2: just say driving, for instance. Okay. You know, when a
- 24:23S2: kid starts to drive, you're wanting to be with them.
- 24:25S2: You're freaking out a little bit. That can be tense. Uh,
- 24:28S2: there may be turning right when they should have gone
- 24:30S2: left and all kinds turning into traffic or something. Well,
- 24:33S2: you want to say we're going to stay close to home? Yes.
- 24:36S2: But when they get a handle on that thing, boy,
- 24:39S2: they get they get more latitude out there.
- 24:42S4: Absolutely. And that's just been the in the last year
- 24:44S4: for us.
- 24:45S2: Yeah. That's why I wanted to use that one.
- 24:47S4: I totally get that. When she first started driving, I
- 24:50S4: was tracking her location like every minute that she was
- 24:54S4: out there. I didn't want her to go on the highway. And,
- 24:56S4: you know, now a year in and praise God, she's
- 24:59S4: a very responsible driver. So she's we've given her more freedom.
- 25:03S4: She drives on the highway and gets herself where she
- 25:05S4: needs to go.
- 25:06S2: Now she's got a sharp kid. She's a good firstborn.
- 25:10S2: She acts like a first born.
- 25:11S4: A first born for sure.
- 25:13S2: Uh. so big, big boundaries spread. I opened up some
- 25:19S2: latitude for blaze. He's one year old.
- 25:22S4: We saw that. Lots of our listeners wishing him a
- 25:25S4: happy birthday. Lots of our listeners, dogs weighing in on Facebook.
- 25:29S2: That's really cool. It's fun to get that kind of love. Yeah.
- 25:32S2: It is. And so now he's got a bigger chunk.
- 25:37S2: It was, you know, it was kennel and then out
- 25:39S2: for walks and staying on the leash and staying on
- 25:41S2: the leash, even in the living area, just kind of
- 25:45S2: hanging out because he had this propensity to chew everything
- 25:50S2: that was there.
- 25:51S6: He's a puppy.
- 25:52S2: Yeah. Everything. So we got that reeled in and now
- 25:57S2: he's got latitude guys. He prances like a show horse.
- 26:00S2: He's like, man, oh man. And he's running up and
- 26:04S2: down the stairs to to get food and water. And
- 26:07S2: so he'll go down and get a couple of kibbles
- 26:09S2: of food, a little drink of water, and then come
- 26:11S2: back up Like I've still got room to run.
- 26:14S7: Look what I can do. Look what I can do.
- 26:16S2: He doesn't have the the whole home. So I got
- 26:18S2: a kiddie gate going up to another level. So we
- 26:21S2: got that one cordoned off. And I made a grave
- 26:24S2: error yesterday of keeping that gate open. And he went
- 26:27S2: and was real curious about the cats. And the cats
- 26:29S2: were not all too pleased. So I said, this is
- 26:32S2: your area down here. Sorry, I left that gate open.
- 26:34S2: He's like, oh man. I'm like, it's coming. But there's
- 26:37S2: going to be another six months. So right now we
- 26:41S2: got him where he's not chewing couches, furniture, anything that,
- 26:44S2: you know, socks, shoes, sure.
- 26:48S7: Furniture, rugs.
- 26:49S2: Railings.
- 26:50S7: Whatever.
- 26:50S4: It may be a little bit more freedom, I love it.
- 26:52S2: And so he gets a little more freedom. So you
- 26:54S2: get those core truths down and bada bing, bada boom.
- 26:57S2: We're talking core truths today. And, uh, you know, it's,
- 27:01S2: it's an awesome thing to get anchored in these things,
- 27:03S2: isn't it?
- 27:04S4: Ali. It is. And we need to, because when you
- 27:06S4: have a really good grasp, not just intellectually, but actually
- 27:11S4: your heart wrapped around some core truths. Man, it makes
- 27:14S4: it much easier to just to look at life with discernment,
- 27:18S4: to discern what what I'm hearing. AM I hearing something
- 27:21S4: that's true or false? We talked a lot about this
- 27:23S4: last week. I mean, without a without being anchored in
- 27:26S4: core truths, you could easily be swayed by persuasive sounding arguments.
- 27:31S2: Yeah, yeah. It's really true. Coming up, the beat goes on, guys.
- 27:34S2: We're tackling core truths. What are those things that we
- 27:37S2: need to be anchored in, and what do we need
- 27:39S2: to let go? Or be a little more conciliatory with
- 27:41S2: people that see things differently? Hang on.
- 27:45S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening
- 27:49S1: to Carl and crew.
- 27:51S2: This whole week we're going to be talking core truths.
- 27:54S2: And here's a reality for me. The older I get,
- 27:57S2: the longer in the tooth. I like that term longer
- 27:59S2: in the tooth, the longer in the tooth I get,
- 28:02S2: the more I'm realizing something. My doctrinal statement is getting
- 28:07S2: more Compacted and more solid than ever. It's just like
- 28:11S2: there's a few key things you got to hold on to, Ali.
- 28:15S4: And certainly one of those things is how you spend
- 28:19S4: your time, right? We know that we need to make
- 28:22S4: the best use of the days because the days are evil.
- 28:25S4: So you can't be saying yes to everything, right? You
- 28:28S4: want to really hone in on what does God have
- 28:31S4: me to do in the days that he's given me?
- 28:34S2: Doctor Greg Allgood is with us right now. He's the
- 28:36S2: vice president of water and health at World Vision. It's
- 28:39S2: the largest Christian Christ follower relief and development organization in
- 28:44S2: the world. Let's get your backstory. You've got a lot
- 28:47S2: of experience. I'm not calling you old. I'm not doing that, doc.
- 28:51S2: But you got you got a lot. You got a
- 28:54S2: lot of experience. What has God taught you about finding
- 28:59S2: the yes in your life?
- 29:01S8: Well, you know, God uses flawed people, and I'm certainly
- 29:04S8: one of those. I've learned a lot of lessons along
- 29:06S8: the way. But what I found is that if you persevere,
- 29:09S8: if you get the support from others, and if you
- 29:11S8: you follow your passions. And I guess I really mean
- 29:13S8: by that if you find your purpose in life, and
- 29:16S8: I believe everyone has a unique purpose. And God showed
- 29:19S8: me that through a number of miracles, what my true
- 29:21S8: purpose was and is helping provide clean drinking water in
- 29:23S8: the developing world.
- 29:25S4: How did you land on that as your purpose? It
- 29:27S4: just flows out of you and you've been doing it
- 29:29S4: a lot of years. How did you get there?
- 29:30S2: Flows out of you. Pardon?
- 29:31S4: Pardon the pun. Pun intended.
- 29:33S8: Yes. Well, so I was in Kenya. I was working
- 29:36S8: for Procter and Gamble, and we had a water purification product,
- 29:40S8: a little powder, a tea sized bag size that made filthy,
- 29:43S8: dirty water turn crystal clear. We tried to make it
- 29:46S8: available as a for profit business, but unfortunately it was
- 29:50S8: not meeting our success criteria. And I was in a
- 29:52S8: place where people collected water from a dirty pond, and
- 29:56S8: I asked a woman named mercy if I could show
- 29:58S8: her how to make her water clear and clean. With
- 30:01S8: these packets. I added the packets to the water. We
- 30:03S8: stirred the water. It got crystal clear and she got
- 30:07S8: down on her hands and knees. When we finished drinking
- 30:10S8: the purified water and begged me for more of the
- 30:13S8: water purification packets, and that just hit me that this
- 30:16S8: is a matter of life and death for so many people.
- 30:18S8: In fact, still a thousand kids die every day from
- 30:22S8: the lack of clean water. At that point, it was
- 30:25S8: 4000 kids. And I knew if somehow I could get
- 30:27S8: P&G to continue this work as a not for profit,
- 30:30S8: then that would be my purpose. And in fact, we
- 30:32S8: were successful in doing that.
- 30:33S2: Well, here's what's crazy. So you didn't get on your
- 30:36S2: knees and and sojourn across the desert looking for God's
- 30:41S2: greater vision for your life. He smacked you in the
- 30:43S2: face with this thing. Doctor Allgood.
- 30:45S8: He had to smack me in the face a couple
- 30:47S8: of times. In fact, it took me a while to
- 30:49S8: figure out that God was putting miracles in my path,
- 30:51S8: and I arrogantly thought that sort of. I was always
- 30:54S8: the person of faith, but I sort of thought that, well,
- 30:56S8: I had God on speed dial. I was the the
- 30:59S8: blue eyed prince that, you know, I could ask for
- 31:01S8: help and he'd be helping me, but I finally figured
- 31:03S8: out that I was here to do God's mission, not
- 31:05S8: the other way around. Through a series of miracles that
- 31:07S8: he provided to me.
- 31:08S4: You've mentioned a series of miracles. You've mentioned that a
- 31:11S4: couple of times. Can you tell us one of those
- 31:13S4: miracle stories?
- 31:14S8: Yeah. So when I was struggling to get P and
- 31:17S8: G to to agree to a not for profit effort,
- 31:20S8: I was in Geneva meeting with some of our team there.
- 31:23S8: And I was struggling because actually some of my senior
- 31:27S8: vice president, he was trying to fire me because of
- 31:29S8: this radical idea that a scientist could lead a not
- 31:32S8: for profit business, something that P&G has never done in
- 31:35S8: their 185 year old company. So I was struggling with that,
- 31:38S8: and I was running around like Geneva. It's a beautiful place.
- 31:40S8: If you've ever been there. It's got the jet fountain,
- 31:42S8: water fountain. It's got the old city. The stress is gone.
- 31:45S8: But this time the stress kept building. And I finally
- 31:48S8: heard God say to me, do you doubt that I
- 31:51S8: can do this? And I'd never heard God speak to
- 31:54S8: me before. So I was, you know, very unusual. And
- 31:57S8: it stopped me in my tracks. And I fell to
- 31:58S8: my knees and of course, wept hearing that voice. And
- 32:01S8: that gave me the Holy Spirit entered me, and I
- 32:03S8: just had this enormous confidence. And that confidence helped absorb
- 32:07S8: the fear of others in my group that were also
- 32:09S8: trying to help me, and we were able to get
- 32:11S8: it done. We were able to get PNG to agree
- 32:13S8: to make it a not for profit. It still continues
- 32:16S8: to this day. It's provided 25,000,000,000l of clean water. After
- 32:21S8: a time, God told me it's time to move somewhere else.
- 32:23S8: That was World Vision because I loved their development model.
- 32:26S8: It really works to lift people out of extreme poverty sustainably,
- 32:31S8: forever and their gods led us to provide just in
- 32:35S8: the last ten years, 36 million people with clean water access.
- 32:41S8: That's more than the population of Texas.
- 32:43S2: Yeah. It's huge. Our guest right now, Doctor Greg Allgood.
- 32:46S2: All right. You've been okay. Let's just cut to the
- 32:51S2: chase here. You've been a high level leader. If you're
- 32:54S2: Procter and Gamble for 27 years and you've got the
- 32:57S2: ear of the. I mean, you're almost in the executive suite.
- 33:00S2: If you weren't. When you've lived your whole life taking
- 33:04S2: the bull by the horns, how do you determine that
- 33:07S2: you are walking by faith and not Greg Allgood presumption.
- 33:12S8: That's a hard one. And so it took me a
- 33:14S8: while to figure that out. In fact, I'm not sure
- 33:16S8: I had it figured out while I was at P&G.
- 33:18S8: I knew that I was doing the right thing. Okay.
- 33:20S8: P&G was doing the right thing by supporting the effort
- 33:22S8: to create a not for profit, but it was really
- 33:24S8: not until I moved to World Vision and got to
- 33:27S8: understand that God could do this with or without Greg Allgood.
- 33:30S8: He doesn't need Greg Allgood to achieve his mission. And
- 33:33S8: it was really because of some of the people that
- 33:35S8: support us that I helped see their generosity. And that's
- 33:38S8: what helped me understand that I was there to do.
- 33:40S8: I'm just God's water boy when it comes down to it.
- 33:42S9: Yeah. That's beautiful.
- 33:44S4: You know, one of the things that you cover in
- 33:45S4: the book is that sometimes the passion for work, the
- 33:48S4: passion for even a great cause, can, can lead to burnout.
- 33:51S4: If you're not careful as a leader, as someone who
- 33:54S4: wants to, you know, take charge and take care of people. Really?
- 33:58S4: But how do you know when you're on that kind
- 34:00S4: of crash course, that collision course with burnout, or you're
- 34:03S4: at least headed there?
- 34:04S8: Yeah. It's difficult. And particularly when you're doing something in
- 34:07S8: the humanitarian field where literally the work that you're doing
- 34:10S8: can be saving lives, you sort of get at least
- 34:12S8: I did got a superhero complex that if I don't
- 34:15S8: do this, if I don't, you know, not spend time
- 34:18S8: with my family, if I, if I don't go on
- 34:20S8: this vacation, then then people might not survive. And that's
- 34:23S8: a false choice. You know, you have to do both.
- 34:25S8: You have to take care of the priorities in your life,
- 34:27S8: your family, your faith, and then also do that work.
- 34:30S8: And I was all too often making the choice only
- 34:32S8: for work and not letting others around me support me.
- 34:35S8: So that's something that I learned through the journey.
- 34:38S2: So if I were to ask the boom crew right now,
- 34:41S2: for which there's a many tens of thousands listening, as
- 34:45S2: we as we just converse here. Are you thirsty for
- 34:49S2: a miracle? It might cause a tremor in North America
- 34:53S2: and beyond from everyone saying yes. And I think we've
- 34:59S2: got to just ask the question, what have you learned
- 35:02S2: about not only being thirsty for a miracle, but witnessing
- 35:07S2: God deliver that miracle?
- 35:09S8: Yeah, God is on the move, particularly in the area
- 35:11S8: that I work in on providing clean drinking water. I'll
- 35:14S8: give you a little bit of facts here. Since the
- 35:16S8: year 2000, the world has reached 2.1 billion people with
- 35:21S8: clean water. There's 700 million left to reach, but we've
- 35:25S8: come way further than the distance we have to go
- 35:27S8: to finish the job. And so we believe that. We
- 35:29S8: believe that we can solve the global water crisis. World
- 35:32S8: vision is leading that effort. And in fact, we've picked
- 35:35S8: countries where usually we're the largest not for profit and said,
- 35:38S8: let's reach everybody everywhere. We work in an entire country.
- 35:43S8: And we did it. We reached 1,200,000 people in Rwanda.
- 35:47S8: The government helped fund the work because they want to
- 35:50S8: reach their people, and they signed off saying, yes, you
- 35:53S8: have finished the job. Now we're celebrating this year doing
- 35:56S8: the same thing in Zambia, where we reached a million people.
- 35:59S8: Then we're doing Honduras will finish in 2028. And next
- 36:03S8: up is Ghana, one of our biggest efforts ever. Because
- 36:05S8: not only do we provide clean water for the people
- 36:08S8: and typically villages that we're working in, but we're also
- 36:10S8: upgrading the schools with water and hand washing and and
- 36:14S8: decent latrines and health care centers. That's really important because
- 36:19S8: in the developing world, in places like where World Vision works,
- 36:22S8: half of health care centers don't have clean water, and
- 36:25S8: only 1 in 6 have handwashing with soap and water.
- 36:29S8: So infections spread unless we do that work to upgrade
- 36:32S8: them with water, with handwashing, with showers, so women don't
- 36:36S8: have to bring water to the clinic to wash themselves
- 36:38S8: and the newborns after giving birth.
- 36:40S2: It's awesome.
- 36:41S4: What would you say? Because everybody listening, you get inspired,
- 36:44S4: you get excited, and everybody wants to make a difference.
- 36:47S4: We're hard wired as image bearers to want to impact
- 36:51S4: the world for good, but it can be difficult to know. Okay,
- 36:54S4: what does that look like for me? What do how
- 36:57S4: does God want me in my corner of the world
- 37:00S4: to make an impact? How do you advise the believer
- 37:03S4: to start to look for that opportunity? You don't want
- 37:06S4: to just jump on any old bandwagon and say, this
- 37:08S4: is who I'm going to serve, because this is in
- 37:10S4: front of me. Or maybe you do.
- 37:12S8: That's a great question. I think everyone a unique, true
- 37:14S8: purpose in their life, and it's not always easy to
- 37:17S8: find it. It wasn't easy for me to find it,
- 37:19S8: but one of the things you can do is figure
- 37:20S8: out what are, what are your natural strengths, what are
- 37:22S8: the talents that God has given you? And you may
- 37:24S8: need to build those up. So what are you good
- 37:26S8: at and what fuels you? What are your passions? And
- 37:29S8: if you begin praying about it, listen to what God's
- 37:32S8: telling you. You'll find those for the high flyers. It
- 37:35S8: may be a little adjustment in their mindset. They may
- 37:38S8: already know what their strengths are, right? Yeah. And so
- 37:40S8: it may be asking like, why am I here? Not
- 37:43S8: what can I accomplish next? You know, what's not the
- 37:46S8: next thing I can put on my resume? But what
- 37:48S8: do I want people to say at my eulogy, and
- 37:51S8: that little adjustment may make all the difference for someone
- 37:53S8: who really thinks they already have it figured out because
- 37:55S8: they may not.
- 37:57S9: Oh.
- 37:57S2: Doctor. Greg. All good. Our guest and he's written a
- 38:00S2: book and I love the title thirsty for a miracle.
- 38:04S2: You got to love that title.
- 38:06S4: I love it. Just text world to 805 557898. Just
- 38:11S4: text world to 805 557898.
- 38:16S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the cast and
- 38:18S1: crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
- 38:22S2: So let me give you a core truth. The grace
- 38:24S2: of God saves us. And the grace of God trains us.
- 38:27S2: It's all God's grace, this human effort thing. That's one
- 38:32S2: of the big myths that we're trying to dispel here
- 38:34S2: every morning with Carl and crew. Now do we effort? Yes,
- 38:38S2: but you effort in relationship and in concert with the
- 38:44S2: Holy Spirit that is at work in your life. This
- 38:47S2: is not bootstrapping it. And the big miss that we
- 38:50S2: have in our culture today is if you get that
- 38:54S2: we are saved by grace alone, that it is his
- 38:58S2: work that regenerates us. The, the, the next threshold that
- 39:04S2: we got to walk through, that we've been through. This
- 39:06S2: has been a little dicier. We've put on ourselves the
- 39:12S2: need to get our lives squared away.
- 39:14S7: Yeah.
- 39:14S4: Yeah.
- 39:15S2: And it doesn't work. The same posture that saves you
- 39:19S2: is the posture that's going to grow you. And we
- 39:22S2: see that over and over again. But it's this point
- 39:25S2: of blessed are the poor in spirit. There's this kingdom
- 39:27S2: of heaven being poor in spirit and spiritually bankrupt. Understanding
- 39:31S2: our need for God is not just good for a
- 39:34S2: point in time, but for all time. That's the secret
- 39:38S2: to the abundant life recognizing without him, I got nothing here.
- 39:42S2: There's a core truth.
- 39:43S4: I mean, saving grace and training grace. The grace of
- 39:47S4: God saves us. The grace of God trains us and
- 39:49S4: we can't miss that.
- 39:51S2: Titus 211 and 12. If you want to highlight a
- 39:53S2: couple of verses that will really anchor you in that
- 39:57S2: core truth, Titus 211 and 12. I think it's the
- 40:02S2: best encapsulation of God's work, both to save us from
- 40:09S2: our sin and to grow us up into this new
- 40:12S2: life in Christ. I can't think of two better verses
- 40:14S2: anywhere in the Scripture right there. Titus 211 and 12.
- 40:18S2: So we're talking core truths. Why is it important to
- 40:21S2: pin down core truths?
- 40:23S4: Well, because I think if you're not clear on what
- 40:25S4: the core truths are, you know, people talk about keeping
- 40:28S4: the first thing or the first or the main thing,
- 40:30S4: the main thing. It's easy to get pulled off into
- 40:33S4: a lot of other directions on things that aren't core truth.
- 40:37S4: So you can find yourself, you've found yourself arguing with
- 40:40S4: somebody about anything, and then you're like, stop and go,
- 40:44S4: does this really matter? Like is it could be in marriage.
- 40:48S4: It could be in parenting. When you lose the core
- 40:51S4: truth of like, what is foundational to a relationship, a job,
- 40:56S4: you get pulled in directions that aren't helpful.
- 40:59S2: I would say most. I'm sitting here cogitating on what
- 41:02S2: you said. I think most relationships experience divides over things
- 41:09S2: that don't matter at all.
- 41:11S7: No.
- 41:12S4: And every once in a while, by the power of
- 41:14S4: the Holy Spirit, you realize it in the middle of it,
- 41:16S4: and then you go, all right, hold it. What are
- 41:20S4: we doing?
- 41:22S2: Oh, boy. When I was when I was a young man, uh,
- 41:26S2: at Bible college. I, like many freshmen. Uh, I came
- 41:32S2: into Bible college with all kinds of core convictions. And
- 41:36S2: I think I was less rabid than some because I
- 41:39S2: was still just enamored with the grace of God that
- 41:41S2: had saved my soul not too many months, year and
- 41:45S2: a half before. Is that right? Wow. It's pretty early
- 41:49S2: on to go to Bible college. So I went off
- 41:51S2: to Bible college and I, but I, I held on
- 41:54S2: to some things that candidly, looking back, I didn't know
- 41:57S2: anything about in relative to what I needed to know
- 42:03S2: to hold that firm a conviction. Sure. So it's important
- 42:07S2: for us to whittle down what are the core truths
- 42:10S2: that we're holding on to and even ask the question,
- 42:13S2: why am I going to the wall for this issue?
- 42:15S2: Because that can that can take the pressure off a
- 42:18S2: little bit and whittle it down to what's most important.
- 42:20S4: Now, I think this is especially true in terms of
- 42:23S4: how we look at our fellow Christians, our fellow believers.
- 42:27S4: Sometimes we can get so divided and just get on
- 42:31S4: Facebook for like 2.5 minutes. And you see so many
- 42:33S4: people who are divided on things that are not core truths.
- 42:37S2: We get that, right.
- 42:38S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 42:42S2: So I was looking around for a worship leader, and
- 42:44S2: we needed a worship leader because the only guy I had,
- 42:47S2: we would start the band with one two, you know
- 42:50S2: what to do. And he had a trumpet and then
- 42:52S2: he would start playing a song. No, I'm not joking,
- 42:55S2: you guys man. One, two. You know what to do. Oh, man.
- 43:00S2: And I needed something a little bit different because we
- 43:03S2: had this growing group of single adults. And man, I
- 43:06S2: got on the horn and I'm calling all over the
- 43:09S2: nation and the world. And I found a guy in Portland.
- 43:12S2: He goes, you got to find this guy. And then
- 43:14S2: I wanted to check it out. And so I found
- 43:16S2: a guy who said, oh, you got to be careful
- 43:19S2: with this guy. But the guy who told me to
- 43:20S2: be careful with this guy I was leery about. So
- 43:23S2: I'm like, oh, this is a good recommendation. See how
- 43:26S2: we got see how we got.
- 43:28S10: Confirmed with the bad advice, right? If he doesn't like him,
- 43:31S10: then I know I love him.
- 43:32S2: So I called this guy up and I didn't know
- 43:34S2: what I was getting. I didn't know what I bargained
- 43:36S2: for here, but I said to him, hey, I understand
- 43:39S2: you're a worship leader. This is what God's doing here.
- 43:42S2: And and I said, you know, man, we're needing you.
- 43:47S2: Do you feel a call here? And he inquired a
- 43:49S2: little bit more and he asked, you know, you know what,
- 43:52S2: what comes with something like this? And I said, I
- 43:55S2: promise you, we will have food for you to eat
- 43:59S2: and shelter. And that's what that was the offer. We're
- 44:02S2: going to have all the food you can eat and
- 44:04S2: we're going to have shelter for you. So we found
- 44:07S2: a place for him to flop, and he showed up
- 44:08S2: and we kept groceries in the reefer and.
- 44:11S9: Refrigerator.
- 44:13S2: Refrigerator, and he showed up. And all joking aside, my
- 44:18S2: life was changed because this is a real dude. This
- 44:21S2: is a real, genuine disciple of Christ. At least that's
- 44:25S2: the way I remember it.
- 44:26S11: Greg Dempster It was pretty close. You should have taken
- 44:29S11: that first guy's advice. But those were sweet times. I mean,
- 44:35S11: really the way that we the way that I remember
- 44:38S11: it was desperation and inability. Colliding with all the provisioning
- 44:44S11: that God promises to bring. We would fast and pray
- 44:48S11: and God would show up. I still remember your wife
- 44:50S11: up in the catwalk of that room that we were in,
- 44:53S11: just with a team of people interceding over every word,
- 44:57S11: every note played, everything that was happening in that room,
- 45:00S11: in that ministry in one year grew 400% in size.
- 45:04S11: Not just people showing up, but people who are hungry
- 45:07S11: to encounter God.
- 45:08S9: Yeah.
- 45:09S4: Greg Dempster is our guest this morning, founder and director
- 45:11S4: of Christ Life Ministries. Talk a little bit about the
- 45:14S4: role that prayer played in that time in your life. Greg,
- 45:18S4: what did you learn during that season?
- 45:20S11: Well, that we had nothing to bring to the table
- 45:23S11: that was going to turn this ship other than God
- 45:27S11: showing up and, and we need to get out of
- 45:30S11: his way. It was actually Carl's wife, Junan, who made
- 45:34S11: the suggestion that we fast and pray for 40 days.
- 45:36S11: So we went 40 days, no food prayer, walking in
- 45:39S11: that room every afternoon. And God made the change. It
- 45:45S11: wasn't our performance that somehow brought about the results that
- 45:49S11: we experienced. It was God getting us out of the way,
- 45:52S11: showing us that we needed him, showing us in Technicolor.
- 45:55S11: John 155 that we can do nothing apart from him.
- 45:58S11: And so when we surrendered ourselves, continued to surrender ourselves
- 46:02S11: to him, humble ourselves before him, we got out of
- 46:05S11: the way and God began to use normal, real, imperfect
- 46:09S11: people and display himself as the God that he is.
- 46:12S11: And that's, that's really prayer became that language of need
- 46:16S11: in that season.
- 46:17S9: Yeah.
- 46:17S2: It was so real. It was so palpable. Greg, you
- 46:21S2: brought with yourself, uh, an experience in a northwest renewal movement,
- 46:27S2: and you brought four principles of prayer that really guided
- 46:32S2: us in, in a powerful way. Give the backstory on
- 46:36S2: that just quickly, but then give those principles because I
- 46:39S2: want our boom crew to get these today. These are
- 46:42S2: these are like timeless principles.
- 46:44S11: You see, first of all, you're hearing from a guy
- 46:47S11: who is far from having it figured out. And back
- 46:51S11: in that season, I had just encountered Christ. I left
- 46:54S11: a a life of drug use. Even though my parents,
- 46:58S11: my dad was a pastor, my mom, church organist, I,
- 47:02S11: I just was looking for life and, and just completely
- 47:06S11: made a wreck of my life and encountered Christ while
- 47:09S11: high on drugs, uh, surrendered my life to him. And
- 47:14S11: that began a massive upheaval in a positive way in
- 47:18S11: my life that led to a sense of, of calling,
- 47:22S11: a desire to be used by God, and led me
- 47:25S11: to Multnomah Bible College back in the day. Joe Aldridge
- 47:28S11: was the the president, Terry Dirks was a partner of
- 47:33S11: his in a vision, a dream. And that dream started
- 47:36S11: off with this sense of just being tired of conferencing.
- 47:40S11: Pastors are constantly getting invited to go to conferences, and
- 47:45S11: Joe and Terry early on said, what would happen if,
- 47:49S11: instead of a conference, we invited northwest pastors to a
- 47:53S11: three day event where we do. We have no agenda,
- 47:56S11: and we do nothing other than seek the face of God.
- 48:00S11: And that began an explosion of movement of new life
- 48:04S11: in the churches in the Pacific Northwest. Ultimately, it grew
- 48:08S11: into international renewal where they were doing these three day
- 48:13S11: agenda less seasons of pursuing God all over the world
- 48:16S11: and Taiwan, China, Germany, all over the the nations, all
- 48:21S11: over the globe. God was stirring renewal. And it was
- 48:25S11: in that season that that Terry Dirksen, I think he
- 48:28S11: just thought, this kid needs massive help. I'm going to
- 48:31S11: take him under my wing and disciple him for a season,
- 48:34S11: and we would pray, walk Multnomah and seek God's face
- 48:38S11: in the midst of this massive movement globally. And that
- 48:42S11: started the whole collegiate Division of Northwest Renewal, International Renewal,
- 48:46S11: where we brought college students. A friend of mine, Mike Pellicelli,
- 48:50S11: and I, would bring college students together for three days
- 48:53S11: of seeking the face of God, and it just changed
- 48:55S11: all of our lives.
- 48:56S4: You know, Greg, what you mentioned, what you're talking about
- 49:00S4: is both exciting and maybe a little daunting. Why is
- 49:03S4: it that we so struggle with pursuing God without programming?
- 49:09S4: I mean, we, we love our, our, our flow of,
- 49:13S4: of service and the, the almost, I hate to say it,
- 49:17S4: but we do kind of like the predictability of knowing
- 49:19S4: what's going to happen. But we know that with God,
- 49:22S4: we can't. Why do we struggle with that tension?
- 49:26S11: I think it's a human struggle. I think that Romans
- 49:30S11: eight lays it out. Paul suggests that we have either
- 49:33S11: phronema an orientation towards the flesh or towards self-effort, or
- 49:38S11: towards God in the spirit. And I think that in
- 49:41S11: our flesh we like to keep things under control. We
- 49:45S11: like to make sure that that we're performing to the
- 49:48S11: highest possibility so that we can gain or yield the
- 49:53S11: largest amounts of value. It's just all a self-effort thing.
- 49:57S11: And then I think also for some, they've had experiences
- 50:00S11: in the past where they're just like flipped out by,
- 50:03S11: by what was happening in the prayer house.
- 50:06S2: A little wacky. Yeah.
- 50:08S11: Right. Or else it was just absolutely dead. And they're thinking,
- 50:10S11: oh my gosh, yes. What am I going to do? Yeah.
- 50:13S11: So they, they want control. And yet at the same time,
- 50:17S11: exerting themselves into the equation is something that's directly interfering
- 50:23S11: with God doing what he wants to do in them
- 50:25S11: and through them.
- 50:26S2: You know, Greg, the four principles that you brought to
- 50:29S2: us in little Rock from the Northwest renewal movement were protection, direction. God,
- 50:35S2: manifest your presence here. And it's all based in truth.
- 50:39S2: I'll never forget those four. Greg. It's those were transformative.
- 50:43S2: Speak to those for a moment.
- 50:45S11: You know, Terry and Joe in the early days had
- 50:48S11: a tiger by the tail. They had all these senior
- 50:51S11: pastors showing up in one location. And all these guys
- 50:55S11: want to do is preach and prove themselves. Not all
- 50:58S11: of them, but a lot of them. And, and so
- 51:01S11: in the early days, just to provide a sense of direction,
- 51:05S11: they would start each one of these three hour rhythms
- 51:08S11: of prayer. And that's what they were. You'd wake up
- 51:10S11: in the morning, have breakfast, three hours of prayer, you'd
- 51:13S11: do some lunch, connect three hours of prayer, a break
- 51:17S11: and then dinner, and then another three hour segment of prayer.
- 51:21S11: But they would get these guys together. There was a
- 51:23S11: facilitating team and they would say, today, we're going to
- 51:26S11: start off this session in the same way that we
- 51:28S11: started off the last asking for God's protection. Because what
- 51:34S11: we're doing here is, is directly, in many different ways,
- 51:38S11: opposing the kingdom of darkness, which is all about empowering self.
- 51:45S11: So we're asking for God's protection in believing that there's
- 51:47S11: real protection that can be found in the name of Jesus.
- 51:52S11: We're also, number two, asking for the Spirit of God
- 51:55S11: to be unleashed on us so that he directs our steps,
- 51:59S11: so that we're filled with the sense of the direction
- 52:02S11: that God wants to bring this time together. And they
- 52:06S11: also would encourage pastors to just to listen. I mean,
- 52:09S11: if somebody over here is praying for renewal of the
- 52:12S11: Church of Portland, maybe we should stay with that until
- 52:16S11: God directs us to go in a different direction. So
- 52:19S11: protection direction, asking God to fill that time with his presence. Well,
- 52:24S11: when God's presence manifests itself, when God chooses to reveal
- 52:30S11: what's already true. Psalm 139 says, there's nowhere we can
- 52:33S11: flee from his presence. When God chooses by the power
- 52:36S11: of His Holy Spirit to unveil our eyes so that
- 52:39S11: we can see him and experience him. It's just like,
- 52:42S11: better put on the seatbelt because things begin to happen
- 52:46S11: dynamically and and then finally, the last one is to
- 52:50S11: just be filled with truth that God wants to place
- 52:54S11: guardrails on our time. That that the things that are
- 52:58S11: prayed need to be just based on biblical truth, that,
- 53:02S11: that the truth really paves the way for us to
- 53:06S11: more quickly move towards God and His purposes in that
- 53:10S11: prayer gathering that you're a part of. And so yeah,
- 53:12S11: those four things were a baseline for, for what we
- 53:16S11: did with international renewal.
- 53:18S2: Yeah. Protection direction. Manifest presence of God's Spirit and truth.
- 53:26S2: Just repeating those again for you. Boom crew. And I
- 53:29S2: want you to know something. Boom crew. Greg and I
- 53:32S2: have done a lot of ministry together over the years
- 53:35S2: in little Rock and in Alaska and now in Chicago,
- 53:38S2: in Greg's in Michigan. And it's been awesome to witness.
- 53:42S2: But I want you to know, just in a word,
- 53:46S2: I've had two tastes of, of what I call many
- 53:49S2: localized awakenings. And they were all due to prayer. And
- 53:55S2: I love of what we've been touching on here lately.
- 54:00S2: George Mueller is the one who said prayer is about
- 54:04S2: taking hold of the willingness of God. I think oftentimes
- 54:09S2: we head into prayer going, boy, is he reluctant or
- 54:11S2: is he going to move? And I want you to
- 54:14S2: know that Mueller was right. We can take hold of
- 54:17S2: God's willingness in prayer, Protection, direction, manifest presence, and truth.
- 54:24S2: Consider that for your prayer huddle this week. You two pastors. Well,
- 54:29S2: we want to put you on to Greg. Man, this
- 54:31S2: guy's got resources galore that work from the inside out,
- 54:35S2: don't they, Ali?
- 54:35S4: Yes, yes. You can text life to 805 557898, text
- 54:41S4: life to 805 557898. Check out those resources we've mentioned before,
- 54:48S4: the journey workbook, working through some of those family of
- 54:52S4: origin issues. This is going to be a great little
- 54:55S4: resource pod for you. There's a lot there. Just text
- 54:58S4: life to 805 five, five, 78, 98.
- 55:02S2: Hey, this is Carl with Carl and crew, and I'm
- 55:04S2: so grateful that you listened to this show cast. Thank
- 55:07S2: you mostly for being part of the boom crew as
- 55:09S2: we help you take your next step with Jesus, you're
- 55:12S2: a huge encouragement to us. We'll be here again live
- 55:15S2: every weekday morning from 5 to 9 a.m.. Godspeed.