Latest / Speak In Flow / Exploring the Ineffectiveness of Problem-Fixing in Therapy, Corporate Settings And The World With Persephone Brooks

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Exploring the Ineffectiveness of Problem-Fixing in Therapy, Corporate Settings And The World With Persephone Brooks · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Hello, everyone, welcome to the speak in flow
• 0:06
  Podcast. Today I have a wonderful friend, who I've known
• 0:11
  for many, many years, over six years along our entrepreneurial
• 0:16
  journey, we have crossed paths. And she is an amazing person,
• 0:20
  wonderful heart, but also so smart and has a big vision, and
• 0:25
  a wonderful, innovative, out of the box way of thinking about
• 0:30
  therapy. And so I brought her on, because I believe that this
• 0:35
  insight is going to help us along our leadership journey,
• 0:40
  and also along finding our voice. And so I'm so glad to
• 0:44
  have her today we have Persephanie Brooks, hi
• 0:48
  Persephonie. Hi, how are you doing? I'm good, glad you're
• 0:53
  here. So Persephone, I know you have an out of the box way of
• 0:57
  thinking about therapy. Before we go into that, can you just
• 1:02
  share a little bit about the traditional approach how we
• 1:07
  currently see therapy and what's happening there? Sure. I'm a
• 1:12
  therapist by trade.
• 1:14
  Persephone Brooks: So I have, you know, working the community
• 1:17
  as well as private practice. And the pattern that I see is we
• 1:22
  really focus more on the behaviour. Now, whether it's the
• 1:26
  problem of mental health, or problem of, you know, working
• 1:30
  with kids, you know, the behaviour, we want them to do
• 1:33
  better, don't do this. We want them to do that instead. And so
• 1:38
  therapy seems to be more about getting rid of something. And
• 1:43
  even when it's around goals, it's still trying to get rid of
• 1:47
  something. And so that's the biggest thing that I've noticed
• 1:52
  is that there's so much emphasis on what we don't like, yeah,
• 1:58
  trying to get rid of it. Right. And I believe it's a problem,
• 2:03
  right? And so they shine the light on the problem. And don't
• 2:06
  we do that also, when we're in corporate, and they shine the
• 2:10
  light on. So we may have done so many things, right? And then
• 2:13
  they do a performance evaluation. And then they shine
• 2:16
  the light on this one problem. And we're like, oh, there's this
• 2:20
  problem. And then this is the emphasis on the problem. And so
• 2:23
  that's what's happening in therapy to write well, you know,
• 2:27
  as a culture, we're probing focused. Yeah, think of, you
• 2:32
  know, as a little child, when we go to school, what did they
• 2:35
  focus on? Usually the problem guarantee, what do they focus
• 2:40
  on? Usually the problem. And so it's not a surprise, infiltrated
• 2:47
  business and leadership. Because we do want our team to be
• 2:51
  better, we want to eat better. But I found, the more we focus
• 2:57
  on the problem, the problem gets bigger. Hmm. And so we were so
• 3:03
  focused on that it gets bigger, and then it gets just that it
• 3:08
  consumes us.
• 3:09
  Melinda Lee: Yes. So on the alternative, what is the
• 3:13
  alternative? How do you see a different approach?
• 3:19
  Persephone Brooks: Before we go there, the other place where we,
• 3:22
  where we focus on problems is on personal thoughts. Now, how many
• 3:26
  times do we have the negative thinking? Problem? Oh, my
• 3:31
  goodness. Someone didn't call me. That's a big problem. Oh, my
• 3:35
  goodness, the traffic is, you know, just going very slow.
• 3:40
  That's a problem. And so we have such a huge mindset to really
• 3:46
  focus on the problem.
• 3:48
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Because we're
• 3:50
  constantly thinking, and so how we communicate to others, also
• 3:55
  about how we communicate with ourselves. And so we're
• 3:58
  constantly thinking about problems. And we're, we have a
• 4:00
  lot of what is the negative? Like, what is the self talk that
• 4:03
  we have when we're looking at the problems? We're saying
• 4:06
  That's a problem, like, okay, there's traffic, or my child is
• 4:10
  so lazy, or my child is not doing this, and that's a
• 4:14
  problem. And so then we're seeing that in our minds, right?
• 4:18
  It gets bigger and more irritated.
• 4:21
  Persephone Brooks: Right.
• 4:23
  Melinda Lee: But then we try to fix it. And we'll we'll we think
• 4:26
  that that's how we fix it.
• 4:28
  Persephone Brooks: Right? So the brain likes to solve problems as
• 4:33
  it's designed. And our nervous system is designed to find
• 4:37
  themes that could be dangerous, aka problems. So our body and
• 4:42
  brain is all wired that way. But that does not necessarily mean
• 4:46
  we have to act that way. And that's the biggest thing is both
• 4:50
  mental health and parenting and business. A lot of times we
• 4:56
  focus more on what we see about what's going on, which isn't a
• 5:03
  bad approach. But it only could go so far. When you focus on the
• 5:10
  problem, it's like pulling a weed in your garden, if you pull
• 5:15
  a weed from my garden, and if you do nothing with that spots,
• 5:19
  another weed is going to take its place. It's a given either
• 5:24
  the same weed or another type of weed. So, and that's the biggest
• 5:29
  problem with addictions, you know, you move smoking, and then
• 5:32
  you move to maybe drinking alcohol instead, or, you know,
• 5:39
  or something less like work. workaholism, where we're working
• 5:42
  really hard. And so it's, it's a bigger problem. So, you know, as
• 5:47
  you ask, know, what is the fix? What's the flip side? Yeah, and
• 5:52
  in the flip side, I believe is two things. One, is really
• 5:56
  understand our values. Values is a big key word nowadays. And
• 6:03
  business is leadership's are trying to find people's values.
• 6:08
  But it's not about what we think our values are like, I really
• 6:13
  believe I'm honest person. And I really believe that I incline
• 6:18
  and I'm thoughtful, and there's evidence showing that. But
• 6:23
  there's also evidence, unfortunately, because I'm
• 6:25
  human, showing the opposite direction. And it's not about if
• 6:31
  we want it that way, it's what our lives are currently
• 6:35
  demonstrating it, and that shows our highest value. So when we
• 6:41
  hear people saying, I want a job, and they're sitting on the
• 6:45
  couch, and doing absolutely nothing, maybe playing video
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  games, or been watching on Netflix, but they always were
• 6:53
  like, I want a job, I want a job, I want a job, you know, our
• 6:56
  minds, like well get off the couch and do something, you
• 6:59
  know, type of thing. And so, you know, there's no, that's true.
• 7:06
  But we don't understand where they're coming from. And
• 7:09
  oftentimes, they're coming from their values. And their they may
• 7:13
  not value having a job. And so if they don't value having a
• 7:17
  job, they're not going to take the steps necessary in order to
• 7:21
  get one.
• 7:23
  Melinda Lee: So how do we go about finding our highest value?
• 7:28
  Persephone Brooks: Well, there's many different ways. The one
• 7:30
  that I found that was very helpful for me, is I've been
• 7:35
  studying under Dr. Demartini. He has a value determination. It's
• 7:41
  a 13. Questions. Yeah. I find it very helpful. But I did find it
• 7:49
  at the beginning, very frustrating, because when you
• 7:51
  first sign on, they ask, you know, what's the three most
• 7:55
  important in each category? And your brains? Like? Three most
• 8:00
  right rights? What, what, what, what's, what's my brain, like,
• 8:06
  for a long time? They're not think of what, what it was,
• 8:11
  right? Because we're not used to thinking about these type of
• 8:14
  things. Right? Now, if that if the question was, what's your
• 8:17
  three problem areas in, in energy, you know, how you spend
• 8:21
  your time, like, my health is not where I and I'm tired? And
• 8:27
  what's the things that surrounds you that you don't like moving?
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  Oh, we have a whole list of right. It's our brains are so
• 8:33
  wired to think of what we don't want what we don't like. And so
• 8:39
  it's really hard sometimes. And then a lot of times, you know,
• 8:43
  with our values that we've already done, we are thinking of
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  a future self of, you know, I value being you know, I value,
• 8:53
  you know, making a difference, my job is no, I feel like to
• 8:58
  help people to improve, to prove myself so we can make a better
• 9:02
  world. But if I see myself as a motivated speaker, and an author
• 9:10
  and coach and, and all those are are things I'm working towards,
• 9:15
  right now is a great, great thing, but not all of that is
• 9:18
  showing evidence in my life right now.
• 9:21
  Melinda Lee: Okay. And so, what would you say if I'm trying to
• 9:27
  aspire to that? How do I find the true highest value filling
• 9:31
  out that form? You think the John D. Martini will help to
• 9:36
  find out the true value? So let's say I'm aspiring to but
• 9:40
  it's really not evident in my life. Was that what's helped you
• 9:45
  to figure that out?
• 9:47
  Persephone Brooks: I think his His form is very helpful. Okay.
• 9:52
  But actually, you know, you could just look at me and it's,
• 9:54
  it's also very helpful because he goes through 13 specific
• 10:00
  areas that it's very helpful to identify. Because, you know, our
• 10:05
  values, there's a pattern.
• 10:07
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 10:07
  Persephone Brooks: And so, you know, for example, where do we
• 10:10
  spend our most money on? You know, most of us will probably
• 10:13
  say personal development, leadership skills, working, you
• 10:18
  know, how can I improve my position. So it's, you know,
• 10:22
  we're very business oriented, we're, you know, working on
• 10:25
  personal development. And so that's, that would be one, you
• 10:28
  know, or two categories, personal development, and
• 10:31
  business oriented. And those are showing evidence, because your
• 10:37
  bank account literally shows you, or your credit, or whatever
• 10:41
  you're used to using, and that you are spending a lot more on
• 10:44
  those instead of, let's just say, you know, your friend is
• 10:48
  socialising or, you know, the, you know, any party, any, you
• 10:52
  know, events that's happening, she's there, or he's there. So,
• 10:57
  there are going to have a different value with winches,
• 11:00
  you know, being able to do this social events.
• 11:04
  Melinda Lee: So yeah, so once someone finds their value, what
• 11:08
  is the what is that, like, when they're now they have the
• 11:12
  highest value, they understand the highest value, then what is
• 11:15
  the talk that's going on in their head? What's the
• 11:18
  difference that they feel? Or what's the change?
• 11:23
  Persephone Brooks: The, the two things that I see is being able
• 11:27
  to realise sometimes why we have value conflicts, like if you
• 11:35
  really value work, and you really value family, and then
• 11:39
  you are feeling guilty at work not being with your family, your
• 11:43
  family, you're too busy thinking about work? Yeah, it's helpful
• 11:47
  to identify which one is higher.
• 11:50
  Melinda Lee: Okay, on, do they flip flop, depending on the day,
• 11:54
  Persephone Brooks: sometimes they do flip and flop depending
• 11:57
  on that usually, we're creatures of habit, we like things in a
• 12:04
  certain way. And if most of the time, the biggest problem I see
• 12:08
  as I'm seeing people, is they're working on a lower value. And,
• 12:16
  and then that runs into more problems. So they're not really
• 12:19
  honouring our highest values, because they're so busy trying
• 12:23
  to maintain a lower value with our brains or our minds, we're
• 12:30
  not motivated a well, when we're doing something lower on our
• 12:34
  values, we self sabotage, we have to use a lot more coping
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  skills, there's a lot more things that triggers us, we
• 12:43
  might have more anxiety, more depression, just because we're
• 12:47
  not really honouring our highest values.
• 12:51
  Melinda Lee: So we're so focused, we're focused also on
• 12:55
  solving the problem, we have no more energy.
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  Persephone Brooks: Exactly right?
• 12:59
  Melinda Lee: Is that right,
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  Persephone Brooks: why spend so much energy on something that is
• 13:04
  not to your highest value? And there's a way to work with the
• 13:08
  lower values, like, you know, parents, you know, if somebody's
• 13:14
  relate to not worry about spouse said Yes, his or as much as we
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  have to, because, you know, we're, we're in a focus, we, you
• 13:24
  know, we are a leader, we're trying to, you know, get our
• 13:28
  voice out. And so sometimes it's just like, how do I work with
• 13:33
  that? And so, that's where looking at your values. And so
• 13:37
  for me, one of my highest values, this is not a typical
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  value, right? But it's meaningful to me. And it's an
• 13:46
  element of play. I have to have an element of play. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:51
  more spontaneous, more like a kid where know, they see a they
• 13:59
  see a leaf and it becomes a boat, and really put it in a
• 14:03
  lake and they're like, or a little stream, and now it
• 14:06
  becomes a big lake. And they're making this like story up as
• 14:09
  they go along. Know that type of play. Right? And so, I find that
• 14:15
  that times I enjoy my job, doing chores by itself. If I don't
• 14:24
  have an element to play, it gets really really boring for me.
• 14:27
  Yeah, yeah. It's like pulling teeth. The other way that I've
• 14:33
  also used this element of play without realising on how
• 14:36
  important it was, is I have taken some hard classes where it
• 14:41
  challenged me, and one of them is Spanish. And so how do I you
• 14:47
  know, these words are foreign. Yeah. How would you I link those
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  know the words with the definitions and get familiar. So
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  memory, so I know Write the Spanish word on one side. And
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  then on the other side, I write what it means. And on the flip
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  side, I write, and then I played matching. And in that element of
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  play, just need me really enjoy the process, I'm not finding it,
• 15:19
  I'm able to do really well on the test because I spend so much
• 15:24
  time. And that's the benefits of operating from a higher value,
• 15:30
  right? Where something would, which would be harder, if I just
• 15:33
  did the typical what you do, right, you're studying for a
• 15:37
  test and you're learning Spanish, for example, I won't
• 15:41
  have a lot of energy, my motivation would be killed, it
• 15:45
  would take me a lot longer to do the activity. Homework would be,
• 15:50
  oh, my goodness, I'm gonna have to use a lot of coping skills
• 15:53
  afterwards, just because I trade maybe my anxieties or maybe, you
• 16:01
  know, I opened up a textbook, I don't know about you. And I'm
• 16:03
  like, am I right? And I like. And so that's, that's the thing
• 16:10
  that I really liked about values, values are so important.
• 16:14
  Melinda Lee: I love that. I love how you integrate it into your
• 16:17
  everyday life and bringing in your highest value, even in the
• 16:20
  most monotonous things that you probably see, maybe they've been
• 16:25
  traditionally told you, hey, you're not good at Spanish. And
• 16:28
  so now suddenly, there's the problem again, and now I still
• 16:31
  have to do Spanish or, or do something at work. But then now
• 16:35
  you're bringing in a value into something that just like of
• 16:39
  everyday life, your highest value into everyday life. And
• 16:43
  that helps you to, to do better, to feel better, or to make it
• 16:48
  more fun for you and alive.
• 16:54
  Persephone Brooks: Yeah, and the second thing that assigns values
• 16:59
  is also don't get so stuck on the label of the problem. That
• 17:04
  by itself could make someone being so rigid. Unfortunately,
• 17:09
  words, we've forgotten. They're really neutral. Hammer is really
• 17:15
  just a hammer. But in our society, it could use it, you
• 17:20
  know, to build things and be wonderful. Or we can use it as a
• 17:26
  weapon and use it to mourn people. And so the words that we
• 17:31
  use in mental health, for example, anxiety, depression,
• 17:36
  and PTSD, hyperreactive, add autism, those actually have a
• 17:42
  negative connotation connected to
• 17:45
  Melinda Lee: it feels so I yeah, it breaks my heart. I mean, I
• 17:48
  mean, and then and then yeah, and then the person receives
• 17:51
  this as this negative con connotation. And, yeah, so tell
• 17:55
  me more about that, then then what happens, right, then they
• 17:59
  feel like it's a problem they have to fix. And then they go
• 18:02
  down to making this trying to fix this problem. And it gets
• 18:06
  exacerbated, and it gets, doesn't ever really, truly go
• 18:10
  away, like, you know, because it's like a label that I've been,
• 18:15
  Persephone Brooks: right.
• 18:17
  Melinda Lee: That's me. And it's not right, when you have all
• 18:19
  these other parts of you like your values that are highest,
• 18:23
  and then, and then bringing those out, right, because you're
• 18:26
  so focused, and not not paying attention to them, because
• 18:29
  you're so focused on this label.
• 18:31
  Persephone Brooks: Right? This because let's face it with those
• 18:34
  labels, we have now pulled in the ego. Yeah. And now the ego
• 18:40
  is wired to keep that because that's our identity. Anything
• 18:45
  that has become our identity is a lot harder to get rid of. So
• 18:50
  if you say, Yeah, I am. I'm a person with anxiety. So I'm, I
• 18:56
  have ADHD, I, I'm, you know, I'm stupid. I'm dumb. I'm not a
• 19:01
  leader, you know, all those thoughts that we have in our
• 19:06
  heads. And if we give value to them, from our identity, our
• 19:11
  egos they're designed to defend them, even in the wrong they
• 19:16
  will make it right. Wow. That's the power of our brains. So and
• 19:22
  then also, being able to have these labels labels are greats.
• 19:27
  But it gets you know, because it does help you to know your
• 19:32
  normal, your natural other people have these issues, when
• 19:37
  you shouldn't be there. Right. And so, that's the biggest
• 19:42
  things that I find working with, you know, with my clients is
• 19:47
  that they've been given these labels and it has become their
• 19:53
  identity. It's a lot different scene. You know, I'm an
• 19:57
  alcoholic and versus I'm a person who right now is
• 20:02
  struggling with drinking. Those are two different fields.
• 20:08
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 20:09
  Persephone Brooks: And it is very important. This skill I
• 20:12
  learned from a wonderful doctor, I still don't remember his name,
• 20:17
  I think is Dr. Hallaway, where he has ADD himself, he wrote a
• 20:22
  book. If you're interested, let let me know. And I'll send that
• 20:28
  information. And so what he taught me is, and I was already
• 20:33
  on the trend of that already, just from my personal life, and
• 20:38
  what AMC is that everything that we see as a negative, there's
• 20:43
  always a positive thing connected. Right. Right. And so
• 20:47
  one example, doing a conference that he held for parents, who is
• 20:53
  helping parents understand that all the negative labels or all
• 20:58
  the things that they're seeing in their children are usually
• 21:03
  negative labels, and they need to find something positive. My
• 21:08
  favourite of this one is there's a mom who raises her hand. Yeah,
• 21:13
  you can't help me. But this one, my son is awful. And he's a
• 21:18
  well, well tell me about him. And so she describes the
• 21:23
  teenager being so lazy, where he's not helping with the
• 21:27
  chores, not doing his work, to the beyond the typical teenager
• 21:33
  thing. And she's just, I am so sick of him being so lazy. So
• 21:38
  that's the thing I want you to fits in, right? Is he's lazy.
• 21:43
  What's the positive side of being lazy? I was scratching my
• 21:47
  head, because I'm like, what is the positive side of being lazy?
• 21:53
  But this author he's like, didn't bat an eye, he's like,
• 21:57
  what the positive side is, they're conserving energy. So
• 22:02
  basically, doing chores, doing homework is not high on his
• 22:07
  values. It's high on mom's values, but not high on kiddos
• 22:12
  values. And so mom didn't understand that he's not going
• 22:16
  to invest his energy into any projects, that he doesn't see
• 22:21
  how it's going to benefit. And as leaders, isn't that exactly
• 22:26
  what we are trying to do? How do we motivate the people who are
• 22:32
  underneath us or whatever it is, right? Do things, what we would
• 22:37
  like them to do? Or what our company needs in order to grow?
• 22:42
  Right? But they may not be aligned with that value with
• 22:46
  that task? And so it's, it's really challenging about how do
• 22:51
  you work with someone who is coming from a different value
• 22:56
  than you. And reality is, we all are coming from different
• 23:01
  values, my that even if everybody matches the same, our
• 23:06
  implementation of those values are going to be different, like
• 23:11
  one of my other values is information. But it's not
• 23:15
  information or where it's trivial, where I'm gonna go in
• 23:20
  jeopardy, and all these wonderful things and answer all
• 23:24
  these wonderful questions. Assuming I really don't care. I
• 23:29
  don't care, you know, who was born in 1887 in England? Did and
• 23:34
  I think it's fascinating. I don't mind learning that. But
• 23:39
  it's not something that's, I'm just so determined, you know,
• 23:44
  all that information. I find, you know, if I need that
• 23:49
  information, I Google it. But information about growth and
• 23:53
  personal development, I mean, in neuroscience and all these
• 23:58
  different things, those are the things I'm driven to.
• 24:04
  Melinda Lee: And so how, so he's this person is conserving the
• 24:07
  energy. And so like you mentioned, how do leaders if
• 24:11
  they know that the person has a different value, or I have a set
• 24:15
  of values, and I want them to also have that value, but they
• 24:19
  don't, let's just say like they're conserving energy. So
• 24:23
  how do we find the match? Or how do we understand the other
• 24:26
  person's values to try to motivate them? Right? Yeah.
• 24:30
  Persephone Brooks: And that was one of my big, biggest questions
• 24:34
  is how do we, and that's what I kind of feel like a lot of
• 24:39
  problems in society, whether it's Democrats or Republicans or
• 24:44
  African Americans, against the majority, you know, the miners
• 24:49
  versus majority, you know, and so it's so cool is how do they
• 24:54
  even do that as well? So luckily, for me, I've been
• 24:59
  learning from Demartini a little bit more about how do we work
• 25:04
  with people's values? How do we help them? And that means being
• 25:09
  that I walked away with, even though I am certified to helping
• 25:15
  people to identify their values and answer that question. For
• 25:20
  leaders, one is to be able to hire people within their values.
• 25:25
  So if you already know that they are in a really good ad
• 25:30
  organisation, and being able to communicate, then you wouldn't
• 25:35
  necessarily put them in a role where they're doing, you know,
• 25:40
  creating projects, right, or sales technique, or, you know,
• 25:45
  all these different categories, the goal is to be able to hire
• 25:51
  someone based upon their values, because we want them to thrive
• 25:56
  in it. And then the other thing is, when it comes to, for this
• 26:01
  example, but this mom and this teenager who she labelled as
• 26:06
  being lazy, she can look at what is his values, know, in your,
• 26:12
  sometimes we have to just ask them or take them through and
• 26:17
  walk them through so they can identify their values. And then
• 26:22
  you link up her values with their his values.
• 26:26
  Melinda Lee: So the values are I'm I like video games, and I
• 26:29
  like playing with my friends and I like sitting around bingeing
• 26:33
  TV, then how do you link it? If it's so different? Like you
• 26:36
  said, they're so polarised?
• 26:39
  Persephone Brooks: Each link is different, and all depends on
• 26:43
  hyperlinks are one of our values. This is where I really
• 26:47
  like it, because it is a moment of play, because you have to
• 26:52
  think of how can your value support that value? Mm hmm. It's
• 26:57
  not necessarily putting up well, if you do this for me, I will do
• 27:02
  this for you, you could do, right. But each other, exactly.
• 27:07
  And then, so you could support each other Demartini method
• 27:12
  actually has a way where you work with them to understand how
• 27:16
  they so for example, is what he used was teachers. So if you
• 27:21
  have a teacher who is doing English, and you have a kid who
• 27:26
  he wants to play soccer, soccer is life, it's number one. And so
• 27:31
  he's not willing to do anything. So he walks us through where
• 27:36
  know, you identify specific people, you know, how many of
• 27:41
  them had to learn how to communicate, communication is
• 27:45
  very, very important in a team, first, you have to be able to
• 27:50
  communicate to your coach, then you have to be able to
• 27:54
  communicate as a team, a lot of them, they have foreign people,
• 27:59
  you know, you know, emits from different countries. So you
• 28:04
  have, you know, foreigners with your own native language. And so
• 28:09
  being able to communicate is very important, not by just
• 28:14
  verbiage, but also writing. Because when we practice
• 28:18
  writing, we practice our verbal skills to as well as then you
• 28:23
  can give him reading assignments about his favourite, you know,
• 28:28
  soccer players, and then you could so, so you build this
• 28:33
  wonderful life around helping to span the reading and writing.
• 28:38
  You're going to even have the math teacher, skits, you know,
• 28:42
  step in, let's, let's watch this. And you know, and, you
• 28:47
  know, in order to get the ball this way, they have to do
• 28:51
  certain things. So, you know, where does the ball where does
• 28:56
  your foot if it could get this far, how you know, and so
• 29:01
  there's a lot of math involved in playing soccer. And so
• 29:05
  there's so many different ways of doing it, which is why I like
• 29:10
  honours classes, because that's kind of the start of this brain
• 29:16
  picking of how do you implement these things, but also
• 29:20
  homeschool homeschools also wins when these are set up correctly.
• 29:25
  And it takes the individuals likes or the topic that the
• 29:30
  teacher chose, and find different ways of how to
• 29:34
  implement it. And so I feel like that's exactly what we need to
• 29:39
  be doing with our people. Right well is maybe in our home, you
• 29:44
  know, if you have a child who won't take off, you know, take
• 29:48
  up the garbage won't do homework. Rename your values and
• 29:53
  find how is your value support them? And how do their highest
• 29:58
  value support you? And so you just build up together. So I
• 30:03
  have been really excited about the values I, you know, also
• 30:07
  very exciting. focusing on solutions really, life is about
• 30:12
  really moving forward on our goals. And since we're all
• 30:16
  business owners, or working, you know, leaders. All of us have
• 30:21
  experienced anxiety at some point we all have, things have
• 30:26
  gone wrong, people have done these things. And so it's not
• 30:31
  about moving away and focusing only on those problems, because
• 30:36
  you'll never going to have enough energy, as you mentioned
• 30:41
  before, to the things that really matter. And it's not. And
• 30:45
  then like you said, I mean, if all leaders in companies started
• 30:50
  to shift, right versus spend so much time trying to fix a
• 30:55
  problem, all of our energies shifting over to focusing on not
• 31:00
  just goals, but the values that we have and learning to keep
• 31:05
  bringing the alignment between my values and your values, we
• 31:10
  can make such huge progress.
• 31:12
  Melinda Lee: Wow, that's so amazing. You're clearly an
• 31:14
  expert on this. It's so and I know that our time is running
• 31:18
  out, do you have to jump off? Do you want to spend a little bit
• 31:21
  of time talking about your book? Or do you have to jump off?
• 31:26
  Persephone Brooks: I could do a little bit.
• 31:28
  Melinda Lee: . Yeah. So I know you have a book. So tell me
• 31:32
  about it.
• 31:33
  Persephone Brooks: So the book is in is still in process. So
• 31:36
  it's not ready to be published yet. But I decided to write
• 31:41
  about these therapy mistakes. And that's the title right now
• 31:46
  I'm sitting on. Because people do need me to understand that
• 31:50
  when you come to therapy, yes, if you're coming from a place
• 31:55
  where, you know, you're a vet, you're trying to make sense of
• 32:00
  the world focusing on the problem is normal and natural,
• 32:04
  you should. But I know many people who have been going to
• 32:09
  therapy for years and never really get any better, you know,
• 32:13
  they know they're, it's a great place to events. And therapy is
• 32:18
  not necessarily designed for just venting. It's designed or
• 32:23
  supposed to be designed for helping people move into improve
• 32:28
  life, so we can thrive. And so one of the things that I really
• 32:32
  see wrong is obviously focusing on the problem. And because
• 32:37
  we're not, we're not supposed to solely focus on the problem, and
• 32:42
  the more we focus on the problem, the more you're gonna
• 32:46
  see problems, right? And it becomes our identity, almost,
• 32:51
  the ego defends it as part of you. Yes, then it becomes a
• 32:55
  bigger and bigger problem.
• 32:57
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right. And then so all the alternative. So
• 33:00
  this is what your books about talking about this, some of the
• 33:03
  mistakes that are happening right now,
• 33:05
  Persephone Brooks: right?
• 33:06
  Melinda Lee: And how much more impactful we can be when we are,
• 33:10
  at least we under maybe we have a good understanding about what
• 33:14
  we want to do or what some of the problems are, but then not
• 33:18
  staying there. Right? Understanding that helps you to
• 33:21
  relate to other people that also are going through it. And then
• 33:26
  and then but then really finding more connection, and meaning
• 33:30
  around more of who you are based on values. And then asking other
• 33:34
  people to help you to develop it and finding alignment with other
• 33:39
  people and their values. And therefore you're making more
• 33:43
  productive, you're more productive that way. Because
• 33:46
  you're contributing, you're building relationships and right
• 33:50
  and then unleashing your voice.
• 33:52
  Persephone Brooks: Right, when I see problems I see is how many
• 33:56
  of the things come in in our inbox. So it's time to clean our
• 34:00
  inbox over and over and over and over. That's going to drain all
• 34:05
  your energy to respond to the most important things.
• 34:09
  Melinda Lee: Right. Right. Right. Yes.
• 34:12
  Persephone Brooks: And so you're not going to have an empty inbox.
• 34:15
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right. No
• 34:17
  Persephone brooks: And that's what we kind of want in life.
• 34:20
  Right? Right. What can we do to avoid all problems or pain in
• 34:24
  anything that makes me feel uncomfortable? Sorry, reality is
• 34:29
  you're going to experience those things even as you move forward
• 34:34
  to the things that you like. So your options are solely only
• 34:39
  focused on the problems, which means you can only talk about
• 34:43
  about their problems. Problems are always going to be there. I
• 34:48
  don't know how many of you know of drama queens and drama kings
• 34:53
  and life is spent around these problems. But we also know many
• 34:58
  wonderful, famous individals both in business and non
• 35:02
  business where they are solely focusing on their highest
• 35:07
  values, all, all of them, their dreams are within their highest
• 35:12
  values. And because they're so aligned when these so called
• 35:16
  problems pop up, but like, no other problem I can hear, at
• 35:21
  first we might go and freak out. They're like, okay, whatever,
• 35:25
  I'm just going to just write, no, take the next best step,
• 35:30
  which is actually the other trick that will be shared in the
• 35:35
  book is, you know, they just go for it, they just just move,
• 35:39
  they don't allow that to, to, I have to focus on my problem. And
• 35:44
  once I have this problem gone, then I will go back and you
• 35:49
  know, in real goals,
• 35:50
  Melinda Lee: right? Right. The trick is finding the highest
• 35:53
  value and what is truly highest for you, regardless of what
• 35:57
  everybody's thinking, regardless of what the world says. But
• 36:00
  that's the key. Right? And so when you do that, take the time
• 36:03
  to do that either through John martinis website or reaching out
• 36:07
  to her Persephonie, of finding that highest value for yourself
• 36:11
  those highest values. And isn't that funny that I think when we
• 36:14
  do that, and we're so focused on it, then all those other
• 36:18
  problems just naturally work itself out?
• 36:20
  Persephone brooks: ephoRight? Exactly. And I found that more
• 36:23
  than 50% of our of the problems, if you focus on your goals that
• 36:28
  is rooted in your highest values, right? They disappear,
• 36:33
  they fall off, they don't really matter. Right? Right. Right, or
• 36:38
  not as bothered by them. And so we put so much emphasis on
• 36:43
  problems. And yes, problems is a part of life, but it, it's about
• 36:48
  where we focus, we can focus on the problem, which means we're
• 36:53
  going always gonna get more problems, which means we're
• 36:58
  gonna be in pain and depressed and anxiety and lifesongs. And
• 37:03
  all those negative thoughts is going to overwhelm us. Or we
• 37:07
  could focus on our highest values that supports our goals
• 37:12
  of being great leaders, and move forward.
• 37:17
  Melinda Lee: Knowing that we will run into problems. It's not
• 37:20
  about getting rid of them. It's about growing through them. Yes,
• 37:24
  yes. Growing through them, and expanding beyond them and, and
• 37:30
  reaching more people. helping more people.
• 37:34
  I love that. Thank you, Persephone. That's beautiful
• 37:38
  that thank you being thank you for sharing your insight. Really
• 37:42
  appreciate all the work that you do at the Counselling Centre,
• 37:45
  your therapy, your private sessions, and I can't wait to
• 37:47
  see your book and read it.
• 37:50
  I'll keep you posted. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. And thank you
• 37:55
  all for joining until next episode. I'll see you later.
• 38:00
  Persephone Brooks: Bye.