Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (3/3)

Transcript

Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Delta & the Bannermen (3/3) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker, quicker.
0:37
Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
0:41
Commentary podcast. Since this is the episode where
0:45
love is the answer, I feel like this is the one time we can
0:49
share our own personal love stories here on A Hamster with a
0:54
Blunt Pen Knife my guest Martin Parsons.
0:57
Now Martin, have you had a love affair as strange as Billy's in
1:03
this, where you sort of fall in love with a time travelling
1:08
genocide survivor and by the end of it you sort of taken so many
1:13
hardcore drugs that you've turned into another species?
1:18
I was going to be like, OK, well, there was that year I was
1:22
living in Thailand and. Lady Boys.
1:29
Well, you know, well, we'll get into that after the episode, no.
1:33
No, come on, I want a genuine story now.
1:36
Oh, what's been the your finest? Sort of love story, tell me.
1:40
Finest love story. Yeah, you didn't know this was
1:43
coming today, did you? No, I don't think I've got
1:47
anything that's particularly exciting and thrilling.
1:50
That's the problem. Just heartfelt and lovely.
1:52
Then like that, we're in the Panaman.
1:54
Heartfelt and lovely. And so the longest relationship
1:56
I've ever had was so I, it was our first move to France and I
2:02
was thinking I was really good at speaking French and I was
2:05
staying in a youth hospital. It's already funny.
2:10
But I, I remember like, so I went downstairs, that's like, it
2:13
was the last day I was leaving and there's this girl on
2:15
reception and I went down and I was like in French.
2:17
I was like, oh, so I'm like, I'm ready to check out whatever,
2:20
being all cool. And then she spoke to me.
2:22
She replied to me in French. And I was like, I don't, I
2:26
didn't understand a single word she said.
2:28
And she'd basically be like, have you brought your sheets
2:30
down or whatever? And that's like that.
2:33
Had to explain it in English. And I was like, oh God, I hate
2:36
this person. She's really like, she's really
2:38
showing me off. And this is like, I was, I was
2:40
so cocky when I was still like, that's it, God.
2:43
What did you say? You didn't say like Voulevou
2:45
crochet havoc. Well, but that, that, but that
2:49
was it for that. That was the first meeting.
2:51
That was it. And then the next, then the
2:52
next, like a few months later, I had to come.
2:55
I was coming back and stayed just one night in this hostel.
2:59
It was there again, saw that this girl was still working
3:01
there. I was like, oh God, it's that
3:02
girl again. I hate her.
3:03
So I literally ignored her. And then as we were leaving, she
3:07
was like, oh, can I just give you my number and just gave me a
3:12
piece of paper with a number. And I was like, oh.
3:16
Fine, maybe, but that was really I hate you.
3:18
I'm. Sorry, I was genuinely a little
3:20
bit like all right, prob maybe I'll sort of send you a message
3:23
on that MSN messenger, whatever we.
3:26
Had a lovely sense of her. You were coming across as a
3:29
rough brick in the story. Yeah, maybe I'm our message her.
3:34
You're a lucky. But then it but then it was and
3:36
then four year relationship after that.
3:39
Four years, yeah. Which is, Oh my God, how much
3:43
Doctor Who did she consume in that time?
3:45
She oh so she was a she liked the new series.
3:49
She she ish but she did the sweetest present I've ever got
3:55
is that she bought me a VOC robot toy and I just.
4:00
Wonderful. She was like, oh, I was in
4:02
London. I saw this and thought of you.
4:04
And I was like wondering what that could possibly be.
4:06
And that's a VOC robot you. Should have said that's from
4:08
Babylon 5. Thank you very much.
4:11
But I was like that this is actually like a genuinely
4:14
really, really. You still got it.
4:16
Oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you still got the robot, but
4:18
not the girl? I've not got the girl, but I've
4:20
got. The buck?
4:22
No. So love wasn't the answer there,
4:24
then? That was no.
4:25
No, maybe not in the end, okay. Four years.
4:28
So I mean, that's yeah. And you hated her after the
4:31
first meeting. It was just, and it took about
4:34
two years to actually explain that that had been the first
4:38
meeting. She was like, oh, we met and we
4:39
clicked straight away. I was like.
4:43
My, my, my probably my great love affair is the one I'm
4:47
currently in right now and I'd never seen Mark before right
4:50
until that first zoom call. I'd only heard his voice on two
4:53
watch who and I thought, oh, really, he sounds so nice.
4:56
And they were quite early into two watch who so sweet.
4:58
I thought, oh, he sounds lovely. I'm gonna ask him to to do a
5:01
hamster. I said, what's your favorite
5:02
story? He went, Oh, I really would like
5:04
to do the Android invasion. I was like, oh, how lovely, OK,
5:07
let's do it. It turned up on the Zoom call
5:10
and you know when you both catch each other's eyes and no one
5:14
says anything for about. 5 seconds and.
5:16
You're like, Oh, yeah, oh, hi. Fucking hell, I'm in trouble
5:21
here for Unfortunately, it was probably the most boring
5:25
commentary ever done because Mark thought the at that point,
5:28
the Doctor Who commentaries should be you only say something
5:31
when you think of something about the story.
5:34
So there's enormous sort of gaps in the fucking thing.
5:38
I thought, I won't have him back on.
5:40
He was very sexy. But God or my he got nothing to
5:43
say ultimately, you know, I did take him to dig cotton.
5:48
I'm pleased to say that's what we first had it off in the
5:52
village of the Android. But.
5:55
Was that did you ask him out after?
5:57
So he did the commentary. Well, it's very complicated.
6:00
I was again more complicated because.
6:01
He was in a 10 years plus relationship that was.
6:06
Oh, right. I was in a four year
6:08
relationship plus at the time and yeah, we have many liaisons
6:13
which we should not have had before it all came out and the
6:18
wash and we had a Christmas where we were going to be
6:22
together and no, we're going to give it a chance with our other
6:25
halfs. It was back and forth and you
6:27
know what, right, This is what makes this a good love story is
6:30
I was saying to my friends when he was going, no, no, no, he
6:34
goes, I'm, I'm sorry. I've been with this guy for a
6:36
long time. I'm, I really, I, I don't want
6:39
to break his heart. I want to give this another go.
6:41
And I was saying to my friends, I know what I'm supposed to be
6:44
with this guy. I don't know how or why.
6:46
And I was adamant. And we had like a five day
6:49
period where it was definitely, absolutely off.
6:52
And I was bereft and crying my eyes out.
6:56
And I was just saying to my friends, this is it.
6:58
He's the one. I don't know how I know it, but
7:00
he is. And then when he messaged me and
7:02
went, I can't do it. I was like, Oh my God, you would
7:06
have been the one that got away. Now I just don't fucking shut
7:10
up. Controlling what I eat.
7:13
I mean, God telling me off when I do podcasts.
7:16
I mean, it's unbelievable, but I.
7:18
Can't imagine. I can't imagine Mark not having
7:20
anything to say in in a commentary.
7:23
Unbelievable. I think.
7:25
I cannot imagine it, no. Yeah, anyway, he never shuts up
7:28
now, but yeah, so I suppose that's love, isn't it?
7:31
Yeah, you. You adore somebody and also you
7:34
want to stave the wedding with a spade on a regular occasion.
7:38
Yeah, I think that's absolutely the perfect definition of it.
7:40
I think he doesn't love me, but he does want to stave my head in
7:43
with a spade on a regular. No, I'm sure, I'm sure.
7:47
Well, thank you very much for sharing that.
7:49
You know whoever you are, mysterious lady in the ether.
7:53
Unexpectedly cathartic. What's her name?
7:57
Delta, perchance? No.
8:00
So, funnily enough, Kathleen. Kathleen, Oh my God, does she
8:07
have a little super Ted? Teddy, I've just got one extra
8:13
thing to say to you then before we go into Part 3, And that is
8:16
I've heard news that the rock fragments that once were the
8:22
great moon of Delta Magna Ravalox hit by a Gallifrey and
8:27
Magnetron when they were sort of pushing it through space as a
8:30
part of some mad trial plot. I won't go into the details
8:34
right. Well, now those rocks have
8:37
started coming together. This are bit looks just like the
8:40
Isle of Wight and they've created the Earth and there's a
8:46
little police box with Catherine Tate and David Tennant looking
8:49
out the door watching lovely Delta come together again.
8:54
Yes, Delta is the Earth origin story.
8:58
Yay. Now, how we're going to explain
9:01
this, because I think Ravalox was Earth in trial of a Time
9:04
Lord, I don't have a clue, but. Time you.
9:06
Why me? Yeah, Steven Moffy will.
9:09
Do it for us. Wave that hand.
9:11
That's right. And so, so yeah, so we're
9:13
literally you and I are right this second in standing on
9:19
Delta. On Delta and then and then Delta
9:22
becomes orphan 55. Oh God no.
9:27
Fucking hell. Oh, and of course, a long time
9:31
in the future. In the third segment of time,
9:35
when the Monoids are about Delta, we'll finally be at rest.
9:40
She will expire and, well, sort of.
9:43
It's like a cricket ball on fire, isn't it?
9:45
But yeah, you know. But that's quite, that's a
9:47
really quite sort of sad emotional moment that that's
9:52
quite a nice way to for Delta to end, I think.
9:55
Why? What a journey.
9:57
Yeah, what a journey. You wouldn't believe it if you
10:00
didn't weren't told it, would you?
10:04
I think this is going to be on TARDIS wiki before we know it
10:07
isn't. It yeah, the great journey.
10:09
I've done it. There'll be 15 Titan Comics.
10:12
Delta Sea, also Earth. You can see Nicholas Briggs
10:17
taking notes now, can't you? Oh my God, this is gold.
10:20
You know, throwing a few military types.
10:23
They've not not done one of those big, long epic Big finish
10:26
sagas for a while, have they? I think they should have.
10:28
They could not. Hear quite last year.
10:32
I actually, I actually didn't. Was it any good?
10:34
It wasn't bad. It was, it was Tim Foley, so it
10:37
had a level of confidence to it that I just don't expect from
10:40
Big Finishing. No, no, no.
10:44
It's, it's quite exciting listening to your finish,
10:48
instant finishes where, where it's the new stuff.
10:50
And I'm kind of like, oh, what's this going to be like?
10:54
Yeah, generally speaking, it goes one or two ways, mostly one
10:58
way. Yeah, I need to.
11:00
I've only listened to the first of the Jodie ones.
11:02
I need to catch up on the the rest of those ones.
11:04
I did really enjoy that first one.
11:06
Joy. Coming up for you there.
11:09
Yeah, well, you know, a big finish if you can think of a
11:11
better future for Delta after this.
11:14
It's not possible I. Very much doubt it.
11:18
We've we've taken in all sorts of away along the way.
11:21
There's something really quite epic about that whole I'm now
11:24
not going to be able to watch Delta and the Batterman without
11:28
thinking that that is the way that she's going to become a
11:31
planet. I like to think, you know, this
11:33
is where the Gaia myth came from on Earth.
11:35
Yeah. Mother Nature.
11:37
It's Delta. She's there in the core of the
11:39
Earth going. She's due to change.
11:41
The swimming time is neon. Things like that.
11:43
You know, that's quite. Perfect.
11:45
Yes, yes. So hang on.
11:46
So when did Oh yes. So she becomes the Earth.
11:48
So yeah. So she's the Earth in going
11:51
outside of the series for a bit, but in the BBC drama Edge of
11:55
Darkness, that's all about the Gaia myth.
11:56
She is in at that point. I'm sure we can put in some
12:02
explanation as to why the bees are all disappearing, you know,
12:06
and tying the stolen earth as well, somewhere along the lines.
12:11
You're on we, you're on. We knows, doesn't he?
12:14
He's like you're currently standing on yourself.
12:18
Oh my God, he's winking there at the end.
12:21
I know. I know all the future, you know.
12:26
Well, I suppose we better watch the the sort of early days of
12:29
her adventures then, you know. Yeah, because now I'm just
12:32
thinking about Starman penetrating.
12:38
That is a deep drill as well, isn't?
12:40
It That's the sound of the planet screaming out its rage.
12:43
Gorgeous. Her going.
12:51
There's just so much you could do with this.
12:53
It gets quite horrifying, actually.
12:56
It's become like a new adventure.
12:58
Delta objects, she goes. You know that bloody moon that's
13:02
circling me? I think that might be an alien
13:04
creature. Get it away from me.
13:05
It's. A dragon egg.
13:08
Oh, boy, boy. Yeah.
13:10
I mean, there's anything else spectacular sort of befallen the
13:14
earth that we could add into this?
13:16
I mean, that's real, yeah. Well, I mean, it gets it gets
13:19
burned a lot, doesn't it? Because it gets the they have
13:22
the great fires that they have the ark in space, don't they?
13:25
Because the Earth. Oh, the solar flares.
13:29
Yeah, he gets roasted. And that's where, that's where
13:34
what's his face got his worm grubs from.
13:36
See, it's all very circular. Oh boy boy, have we flogged this
13:42
to death yet. I don't know because I'm still
13:45
quite desperate to know more. Well, maybe we'll do a bit more
13:49
at the end, shall we? Oh yeah, yeah.
13:50
OK. Finish the story.
13:52
At the moment, Stalin Stalman is penetrating her at a rate of
13:56
knots. Poor Delta man.
13:59
That could be considered rape, couldn't it?
14:02
It's quite grim. Yeah, well, how are we going to
14:05
watch any of these stories again in the same light?
14:07
Well now, because Zarroff was going to crack her open and
14:09
drain the sea into her as well, yeah.
14:12
Well, he had a domineering mother, you know, he didn't like
14:15
women. That's true.
14:16
That's true. That's right.
14:18
Yeah, but he was going to be on the planet as well, would he?
14:20
That's a stupid plan. That was a very, very silly
14:23
plan, yeah. Very silly plan.
14:25
How on earth would you let anybody know you've done it if
14:27
you've gone down with the ship, the marker boy into space?
14:32
Say I did it, Professor said. What's in the bottle of Fright
14:38
Into Space? It'll reach me in time.
14:42
In time. Come on, let's go and watch
14:47
episode 3, right? OK, yes, I mean, who cares about
14:51
doing Batterman now? We've created an entire series
14:54
tonight. Who the fucks counting?
14:58
I've totally lost track of everything.
15:00
I've started this. You're canning?
15:03
Yeah. Can you please do it in your
15:05
best growly Gavrock? Yeah.
15:10
Cut. Shipman Queen.
15:11
OK, let's go in 321. I had no idea Gavrock was at
15:20
camp. You know, you sounded like a
15:25
drag queen. I know actually, you know, Oh my
15:29
darling, do you know what I wish?
15:35
Used to think? That was the Earth that the
15:36
Doctor that the TARDIS was in. But I'm told it's just a bubble.
15:41
Oh God, I was like don't add another thing to it because she
15:43
can't be the earth plus be the exploding thing.
15:46
Oh my God, she's twice on the title and it all turns out that
15:54
the entire universe right is the best of Mccoys face.
15:58
That's why he's there right? That's the entire universe.
16:01
It just so if you pan out far enough it becomes Mccoys face
16:05
and Delta is just a little gleam in his eye.
16:08
That'll be the final shot of the of the thought of Doctor Who
16:11
ever just like pulling out. And that's what it is.
16:14
The meaning of life is Sylvester Mccoy's face.
16:16
Well, it's like The X-Files with Burt Reynolds.
16:19
Burt Reynolds? No, that's not right.
16:21
Is that? You know what I mean.
16:22
Probable. Improbable at.
16:23
The end when it's the face, yeah.
16:25
Sava, sava. Oh, So yeah, don't worry about
16:30
it, man. That's right.
16:31
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, that's the other
16:32
thing that. Whole thing, Yeah.
16:35
I've traversed time and space to find a shimmer on Queen.
16:42
See, Collin wouldn't come in under a white flag.
16:44
He'd just grab one of their guns and shoot them all, wouldn't he?
16:48
Just snap a few necks. This is why Colin gets things
16:51
done, you know? To be fair, yeah, he has no
16:55
Cliff. He has no cliffhanger.
16:56
Regret. Does he?
16:59
Well, he does that one in the two doctors where he's hanging
17:01
on those wires and that's been so painful.
17:06
And a visible harness. Now why does Gavrock let them go
17:12
again? I would just shoot them all.
17:14
Yeah, it's like, there's definitely, this is definitely
17:16
the time to get oh, I suppose Gavrock's like, Oh yeah, shit.
17:18
There is a white flag, though. Probably should respect that.
17:21
Yeah, I mean that you might consider that a bad karma.
17:24
Might you murder somebody under a white flag?
17:28
OK, so that's a tracking device. Yeah, that he fires off.
17:33
Is that right? Is that what he is?
17:34
OK, I don't know. What is it that red thing flying
17:37
through space then? Or is it just to let them know
17:40
that the other banner men know that they've got?
17:43
To. Come and help.
17:45
Oh, the Dick bottom music is coming up now and it's it's so
17:49
weird not hearing the music. Like it's still beautiful to
17:52
look. At Yeah, but it's true that this
17:53
is this is like the one story where the music is such an
17:57
integral part of it. But these teachers?
18:01
Have you ever been manacled to another man like that?
18:04
I have not. No, I don't recommend it, if I'm
18:07
honest. Yeah, once or twice.
18:09
Yeah. Actually, there's a few parties,
18:11
you know, you can go to where that sort of thing goes down.
18:14
Yeah, usually some Welsh bird comes along and goes.
18:17
Come on now, I'll get you out of there in a jiffy.
18:20
But it's this is this is also, again, it's brilliant.
18:23
It's like, it's like a dinky Alan Key.
18:25
It's like, is this dinky enough? Looking good, sister.
18:28
You're like, OK, but that is how she works as the companion.
18:32
She's sort of useful. She's practical.
18:36
Like, Ice doesn't get much to do in the climax of Dragon Fire,
18:40
does she? She's Kane's victim at the.
18:42
End. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:43
She's she's just suffering, yeah.
18:46
Oh, did you hear Mel? Oh, we're free, Doctor.
18:50
She goes. Oh God, I fucking love this
18:54
scene. Like, is that a puzzle they're
19:00
in or is it a river? I can't are.
19:03
They just on the edge of that, that river that we that they
19:05
landed next to you, kneeling at the side of it.
19:10
Oh, now they've got the track. That's the track.
19:11
Yeah, There we go. That was there.
19:13
You know, I think Grandma's house looks a bit rundown,
19:15
doesn't it? Is it?
19:18
I hope so, because otherwise I don't like the idea of living
19:20
inside that. No, I mean it's like, what the
19:23
fucks happening now? Now we're learning how to keep
19:25
bees. But this is also very new
19:30
series, isn't it? That thing of like having a
19:32
character just sort of change their DNA, like, yeah, this
19:36
could probably this is this is science.
19:38
Yeah. Cool.
19:39
Yeah, we'll just sort of wave a hand over it.
19:41
Yeah, yes, of course you can. Yeah, why not?
19:45
You know, aliens come to Earth, have some Pepto Bismol, suddenly
19:48
they're a human. Of course, Like, why not?
19:51
Oh, Pepto Bismol, Isn't it ghastly?
19:54
Oh God, I know I had some of that recently.
19:57
It's like what? They should never drink anything
19:59
that's bright pink, you know? No, it's a particularly.
20:02
Yeah, it's a, it's a very bright pink, isn't it?
20:05
Sort of. Chalky with a minty taste.
20:08
Oh God almighty. Oh, now Sophie.
20:11
Audrey gets very angry in this episode when all the honey is
20:14
wasted because because. Like what are you talking about?
20:23
She goes, Oh, the bees made all that honey.
20:26
Well, I suppose she's got a point.
20:29
Yeah. Oh, there she is.
20:31
She's due to change the same time, isn't he?
20:35
Yeah. Belinda, what happened to you,
20:37
darling? Have have all of the young
20:41
Chimeron Queens been at Doctor Who conventions yet?
20:45
I would probably say a phantom once or twice given the current
20:50
sort of guests that they're having.
20:51
Third guard on the left. I honestly there was one of
20:55
their adverts recently and I could not work out who any
20:57
basically anyone. I was like I'm I feel like I'm
21:00
not a fan. I don't recognise no.
21:03
It's just, I mean, it's unbelievable.
21:05
I went along to see Rebec from Planet of the Daleks.
21:10
I would, I would. What's it How?
21:12
Jane Howe. Jane Howe, yes, she was just
21:14
wonderful, but I couldn't tell you anyone else was in that
21:17
room. Oh yeah, no.
21:20
Now that you keep talking, I'm just going to Google Delta and
21:24
the Bannermen because I didn't find out whether that fellow was
21:26
from a band or not, did I? Oh yeah.
21:29
That's true. That's his name, Kelly, Or is
21:31
that his name? Does he have a name?
21:35
Oh yeah, probably. Let's say yes.
21:38
Oh, here we go. He was.
21:41
In Yazoo. Their cover version of Yazoo's
21:46
track Only You was a Christmas #1 The Flying Pickets.
21:51
Do you remember that song The Flying?
21:52
Pickets. That's brilliant.
21:58
He was, well, technically a cover Yazoo, but.
22:01
Yeah, but. Yeah, we go get out that pork,
22:04
Siri. O'Neill it.
22:05
All goes it all comes back to Yazoo and Siri O'Neill, doesn't
22:09
it? Yeah, did you say that banner
22:11
man? There he was a bit podgy,
22:14
wouldn't he? He's the big bannerman.
22:18
Yeah, he likes a burger. This is a nice little trap on
22:22
the TARDIS is a nice little touch as well.
22:25
How does the Doctor know though? Because the TARDIS has been
22:28
booby trapped. I saw a shadow, something on the
22:32
floor. Now I love how in Longshore
22:36
here, McCoy suddenly got his glasses on.
22:40
Have you seen that? What's the word?
22:42
It fits into continuity if you put it with the extended version
22:46
of downtime that Ian Levine did reading off the script.
22:54
Is that that opening scene? Yeah, it's just terrible.
22:58
Hello. Apparently he didn't want to do
23:03
it, did he? But because he'd signed a
23:04
contract, he had to do it. What was that bizarre mask that
23:09
the fella was wearing as pants? Horrible.
23:12
Yeah. Like Gruntly the Oak run, didn't
23:14
he? My God, poor Bonnie.
23:17
Did you see her bouncing away then in the field?
23:19
Good grief. But everyone's sort of coming
23:23
together, which is, which is nice, Finally.
23:27
Oh, I. See what you mean?
23:28
There was, there was, there was a lot of bouncing.
23:30
Yeah, that's why. I mean, at the end of the story,
23:33
right, there's a great long shot of every single cast member
23:37
surrounding the Bannermen and you realise just how big the
23:40
cast is in this. Well, this is what I mean.
23:42
I mean, not that I'd want to lose anybody, but it is a bit
23:45
mad that they got the scripts and they weren't like right.
23:47
There's about 5 too many characters we could probably.
23:50
See some 12 Chris Chibnall scripts in it?
23:53
Yeah, we've got 4 regulars, but we can have another 15
23:56
characters in this story. What do you mean?
23:58
It's only 45 minutes long. They can get a line each.
24:04
Ah, what's happening here now? Oh, they're, they're closing in
24:07
on Delta, is that right? But those, those some glasses
24:10
that they've got on, I swear there was like a trend for that
24:14
sort of sunglass. There was, it came, there was
24:17
some music video. Everyone was wearing that sort
24:20
of slatted glasses. Would you like some for
24:24
Christmas? I actually would.
24:27
I love it if you turned up one of these commentaries wearing
24:30
that she's. Wearing these.
24:32
Oh my God she screams so loud she gains 1515 inches.
24:38
Doesn't. She I think this.
24:39
I quite like that. Oh yeah.
24:42
Is that what it takes to gain 15 inches?
24:45
That I think that would? Be oh, those windows.
24:49
But that would be. I think the growing scene is
24:51
good, but Belinda's not really reacting to it, which is a bit
24:54
shame. And poker runway, not only do
24:57
they destroy all his honey, all his bees get free and they've
25:00
smashed all his windows. Set fire to his hedges, but all
25:05
those horrible sparks, like they just don't look good at all.
25:09
No, no, Although if I do die, I do want to spark, you know,
25:13
like, please let me go in a melodramatic way.
25:18
I don't just want to look die on the loo.
25:22
If I could die sacrificing myself to some terrible joke on
25:25
a podcast, I'd be very happy. Oh, here's Lollipop, isn't it?
25:30
Oh, no. That'll be the day.
25:31
Yeah. Buddy Holly, Yeah, that's really
25:33
nice. May I borrow a length of your
25:36
ribbon? I think there's so many of them
25:41
they need 2 modes of transport to get them all away.
25:44
Yeah, but this is great as well because it's like the Doctor is
25:47
just being like a mischievous little elf, just in that way
25:51
that, like the McCoy does really well.
25:53
That's what I miss later. I think there's a lot of that in
25:55
24. I think later on they try and
25:59
give him lots of dramatic things to do and I'm telling you now,
26:02
he does the mischievous stuff more convincingly.
26:05
He. Does he does?
26:06
That sequence in Paradise Towers with the rule book, it's just
26:10
amazing isn't it? They've got 2 motorbikes and a
26:15
car, that's how many people there are.
26:17
And look off, the cast is here in this field.
26:20
But again, I think this is just quite nicely framed like the and
26:25
with the ship landing and stuff they like it's they do it well.
26:28
They've got the front of the ship there.
26:30
Yeah, yeah. So, so it doesn't.
26:32
So you've got something to shoot again.
26:33
It's a bit like that big aeroplane wheel when time flight
26:37
you know they've got something to put them against.
26:41
No one's got the question whether this is a sound sage or
26:43
not. That bit where Teagan's showing
26:46
them all to their seats in prehistoric.
26:52
Oh, Mark was very happy to see the sheep in this scene.
26:55
You know, he thinks animals are nice of them people.
26:57
So please, I don't murder them though.
27:03
I was going to say yes because that that could that could
27:05
easily happen. What does he say?
27:08
Where are they? Scam?
27:13
Actually, he's quite cute, this banner man.
27:14
You know, he's the one I'll be with in the ship.
27:19
You can come back with me. Tell him you can rape a pillage
27:21
and genocide later. All right, you're always off
27:26
doing genocide. I'm always tidying up your
27:30
little cupboard in the ship. Sorry.
27:34
Please stop me. That's just another spin off
27:36
when we got now the banner man keeping up with the keeping up
27:39
with the banner man. Oh, it would be a great sitcom,
27:42
wouldn't it? Hey, who are we going to
27:44
genocide this week? Oh, this genocide.
27:49
Yeah, and we, I'll tell you what, right?
27:52
Every week he phones his mother and it's some awful harridan
27:56
that turns up on the screen who would be great at playing that?
28:00
Someone like Zoe wannabe or something like that.
28:02
You know I've. Just got this flash now of the
28:04
idea but in keeping up appearances when she's phoning
28:08
her son that's just a banner man or mum just.
28:16
What do you mean you're causing genocide with your friend
28:19
Tarquin? Oh, you've made your own
28:23
curtains for the ship? How wonderful Sounds.
28:27
Delightful. OK, it's going to be Patricia
28:30
route. Let's just.
28:31
Yeah, it's got to be. It's got to be.
28:34
Now, Cavrock, I've told you, you did a proper career.
28:36
Not all these genocides. Come on, that's Richard there
28:42
going. Tell him no more armies.
28:45
All right? We're not sending him any more
28:46
weapons. That's going to say, tell him
28:48
we're not paying for anymore, not paying for any more
28:50
genocides, your dad said. I think about it.
28:57
Yeah, she sends the bazookas. Anyway.
29:00
Cheers, Mum. Oh boy.
29:04
Now you might say we're creating all of these sort of subplots of
29:07
our own because there isn't much substance to Beltran the banner
29:10
men. And you could be true, but oh
29:14
boy, they're about to be attacked by a load of killer
29:16
bees. Yeah, but also it's it's so full
29:18
of this kind of invention that you can't help but consider the
29:22
home lives of the banner men and.
29:26
You just want to know more about these people, don't you?
29:28
But you do. What the hell happened to Hawks
29:31
and Weiss Miller after this, you know?
29:34
Did they get a new adventure supply?
29:36
I hope they did. No, I think actually they was
29:39
murdered by two of the aliens from the Skegness Glee Club who
29:43
then took on their forms, went back to America.
29:47
Yeah, that's right, because one of them does look a bit like
29:50
Trump and now the president of America.
29:55
So yes, we do have an alien war tyrant as the president of
29:58
America. What gave it away?
30:01
All those genocides he's trying to do.
30:03
Oh. My God, Patricia Patricia Allen,
30:07
just call me in the White House. More genocides?
30:13
Oh, you'd have a lovely relationship with my son
30:15
Gavrock, yes. The Oval Officer.
30:20
Delightful. Have you ever taken any
30:23
substances like this that's sort of made you go a bit green
30:27
around the gills? No, I feel like I'd try and I'd
30:30
be trying to make my hair grow back and he's this sort of he's
30:33
he looks like he's losing his. Yeah, like my mark,
30:37
unfortunately, you know, he's getting very sad about this.
30:40
He keeps taking this biotin or something thinking it's going to
30:43
grow back. I mean, he doesn't realise he's
30:46
pretty with or without hair, just like you, you know, you
30:49
don't need hair to be pretty. It's it's practical in the
30:52
morning if you've got nothing to nothing to deal with.
30:56
Oh, actually, that's a good point.
30:57
Yeah, look at this. Like I've stopped my finger in a
30:59
power socket. Oh, no.
31:03
Here comes the ship. Are you ready for the electric
31:05
guitar to come in? Damn.
31:07
No, no, no, no. That's it.
31:11
Everyone's here. Quick.
31:12
Everyone if you need something to do in the finale.
31:15
Yeah, everyone looked busy. I've got my book.
31:19
I'm all right. The way they take the table when
31:22
he's holding the books. Oh God, Burned with his sword
31:27
and still put the wind up a bannerman.
31:31
I mean, Billy's there. So he's doing the sound system
31:34
because we've established that in episode 1.
31:38
What did they take from grown wave?
31:40
Beeswax was it? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:43
For the, for the, for the ears. OK, Oh, look, they're hiding
31:48
behind all of the sort of fake animals.
31:52
But it's but it's great up on the roof.
31:54
This is This is fun. McCoy said there was no health
31:58
and safety whatsoever. They were letting off explosions
32:01
while they were up there on the roof.
32:04
Plus, I'm astonished that those roofs can actually take their
32:06
weight as well. Yeah.
32:09
Oh, those chalets, man. You ever stayed in a Butlins?
32:12
No, don't. Do it all right, of course,
32:15
You're in South of France, aren't you?
32:17
Where the chalets are much more middle class I like to think.
32:23
I don't know. There's, they're just sort of
32:24
huts really the sort of things you get down here.
32:26
But the weather's better most of the time.
32:29
This shot now of him coming through the Shangri last sign as
32:32
the guitars going, oh, it's so fabulous.
32:38
It's there just isn't I I keep saying this, there just isn't
32:42
another story like this that's tonally like this is.
32:48
There No, no, no, no. Like when when the caramel era
32:53
is fun. After this it's sort of
32:55
Arthurian legends and great Time Lord super weapons and things
33:01
like this. There's a reference to this.
33:05
Yes, and it's true and they and again it goes back to what we
33:07
say about Doctor Who in general, but they just don't seem to want
33:11
to do just outright comedy again.
33:14
And so you get funny moments. I mean, ghost lights hilarious,
33:17
but it's not. It's witty.
33:20
It's but it's not. But it's not like this.
33:23
I wanted to see how it worked, so I dismantled it.
33:27
That's brilliant. Darkly funny isn't?
33:30
It yeah, the the cream of Scotland.
33:32
Yard, all of that stuff is great.
33:34
Soap, Yeah, that is a great line now.
33:38
This I have a slight problem with this ending for Gavrock,
33:44
because it's great. It's funny, hoist by his own
33:47
petard, whatever, but I kind of want a sort of Cartmel speech to
33:54
the villain, you know, lecture to the villain.
33:55
At this point. I do actually kind of want the
33:57
doctors to be like, no, but what you're doing is is wrong and
33:59
that you know you shouldn't. This isn't the way to live your
34:01
lives and whatever, and I don't. Learn anything today you.
34:04
Don't learn anything. This is it.
34:06
I kind of feel like this is one of those situations where I want
34:08
that, a little bit of moralising.
34:10
At the end I was just like, that's it, we're done.
34:13
Although it does almost get stabbed by Mr. Burton.
34:17
It's over. Or lovely lovely.
34:22
He could probably still grow back his arm at this point.
34:24
Goodness. I just love that there's this
34:27
coder as well. We don't forget the fucking
34:30
characters, no? What happens at the end of
34:33
Dragon Fire? The little girl?
34:35
Oh, there you are. I've been looking all over for
34:37
you. Come on.
34:38
It's just grins. And that's the end of that plot
34:40
line. Grins.
34:41
Like a lunatic, yeah. Whereas, you know, we learned
34:46
the Skegness Glee clubs coming, Delta and Billy get to go off.
34:49
Ray is going to have a happy life, which is we care about
34:52
these people. Billy's Just Changing is a great
34:56
is a great line as well. I wouldn't suggest he's going
34:58
after a woman dressed like that. I don't know what he thinks he's
35:03
doing. He looks like one of Kane's
35:04
henchman. Like, what?
35:05
Why are you dressed in that? But this, this bit?
35:08
Love's never been known for its rationality.
35:10
This is great. This is McCoy, like, fully
35:13
settling into his doctor, I think at that point, holding
35:16
onto his guitar. That's beautiful.
35:18
This whole story, I think you know everything from the apple
35:23
tickle of his head to that line, to him going up to Gavrock with
35:27
the white flag, all of it. He's just got it here.
35:31
Yeah, definitely. And it it does baffle me that
35:35
they learn what his strengths are very quickly and then sort
35:38
of forget. Move beyond them completely,
35:41
yeah. Yeah.
35:43
But why? Why smell of tying his little
35:45
knots and stuff? That's really adorable.
35:47
Just to use a skipping rope. Is he tired?
35:53
Oh, look at that bannerman. He looks so unhappy.
35:55
He's standing there. Oh, dear.
35:57
Oh dear. He's like, what's my what's my
35:59
motivation for this scene? I'm an angry genocidal.
36:03
How am I going to explain all this to Gavrock's mother?
36:10
Where is he? And then she becomes the tyrant.
36:14
Imagine Patricia Routledge as a Nazi super queen.
36:19
Mother of Gavrock, coming soon from Big Fish Productions.
36:26
The Bannerman residents, the Lady of the House speaking.
36:31
What's that? You want a genocide?
36:34
Yes, of course. Just it's.
36:35
Like Bannerman Rd. is where Sarah J Smith lives, but also
36:39
the Bannerman. Coffee at 11, Elizabeth.
36:44
I'm just arranging another genocide.
36:46
Sorry, we're talking all over this lovely scene.
36:53
You promised me a song. Oh yeah.
36:56
Here's the future. Oh yeah.
36:58
Love is the. Answer it's so happy.
37:04
But they're like, Ray looks so uncomfortable on that party
37:06
trying. To.
37:07
That is. True.
37:08
And him saying let's make this baby fly.
37:11
It's a bit awkward as well, but you know.
37:14
Yeah, we'll take it. But we've had scene after scene
37:17
of them being just delighted and happy and they've saved the day.
37:22
I just think that's what you don't get this much in Doctor
37:25
Who. I find the endings are usually a
37:29
bit more ambiguous than that. I mean, I'll take this smiley
37:32
happy ending over that dreadful rebirthing scene in Cursor
37:35
Fenrick. But you just, sometimes, yeah,
37:39
you do just want a nice happy ending where most people
37:42
survive. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's
37:45
nice. Time will tell.
37:46
It always does. In Remembrance is lovely.
37:48
Oh, it's really good. Yeah, really.
37:50
But also that's the fact that we get the coda in remembrance for
37:53
it to work. It's not kind of like, you know,
37:57
they give us time to sort of deal with what's happened.
38:00
That's why I see girls go back again to Arakaneta.
38:03
They get a coder at the end of Vengeance of Ours.
38:05
They get a great little. Code.
38:07
Yeah. Fucking hell.
38:07
We've got no TV now. What the hell are we going to
38:10
do? Talk to each other?
38:11
It's Chris Chipnall jokes again. Oh, oh, they've got the
38:19
satellite, haven't they? Hawk and Weissmiller.
38:21
OK, that's a nice pay. Off, yeah.
38:23
So they all get that. But yeah, they all get what they
38:25
what they came for, basically, apart from all of the Navrinos.
38:29
And that's a lovely shot. It is, but he's like, fuck me,
38:33
I've got to clean up the windows, get all my bees back
38:37
and make all the honey again. Oh, I've just got to go
38:40
somewhere else. Yeah, he's just going to move on
38:42
now. He's going to.
38:43
He's going to get back into his TARDIS.
38:45
Yeah, Belinda Maine got a part of the end credits all of our
38:49
own special guest star. Everyone else is sharing the
38:54
screen with people, but Belinda Main man guest starring Belinda
38:59
Main. Paul Ray, she's got like four
39:00
people to share with. Have you ever watched the the
39:07
after party that's on the Blu-ray set?
39:11
No, no. What is it?
39:13
Yeah, yeah, they actually filmed the Arthur party, so it's all
39:17
the actors coming together on the last night in Wales and they
39:21
put on a variety show because they're all variety actors and
39:25
bonnies there doing a song. Still, Best of McCoy does a
39:28
comedy routine, Stubby K does a dreadful drag act, JNT goes up
39:34
and does his bit. It is just mental.
39:37
It's so fun, you've got to find it.
39:39
You're gonna have to watch this. And it does sort of show you
39:43
what body's talking about The the there just was a vibe to
39:46
this story. Yeah.
39:48
Everybody was just having the best time making it.
39:53
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that just comes
39:55
across, doesn't it? Like they're just clearly having
39:57
a great time. Although I did once, I
40:00
interviewed Sylvester McCoy once and I said what?
40:02
What do you think is your most underrated story?
40:05
Hoping he was going to say Delta but he said time in the Rani.
40:11
Man, what a man, what a man he was.
40:13
Like, I think we actually started out really well, but it
40:16
didn't really get the recognition and whatever.
40:18
And I was like, oh, yeah, OK. But I was, I was like, let's
40:20
talk about Delta now. Anyway, no.
40:21
Wonder his face is the entire universe, you know, with sage
40:25
wisdom like that. Sylvester McCoy.
40:29
Oh God, was he delightful to interview.
40:32
Really, really nice. It was only like, it was only
40:33
like a phone interview, but it was really sweet.
40:36
We did sort of an overview of some of his career stuff and his
40:40
work in John Badham's Dracula and stuff like that as well,
40:42
which is really, really nice. So now he's very, very sweet.
40:45
And, and it was all I can say it was quite nice that especially
40:49
about Simon the Rani, that he was really just like, we were so
40:52
excited for what we were doing. And maybe people didn't respond
40:57
to it, you know, in the way that we'd have hoped, but we were
41:00
still quite, you know, quite proud of the work we did.
41:02
I think that's, that's, you know, that's true.
41:04
They should be proud what they did.
41:07
There was that frustration, wasn't there, of time and money.
41:09
There's that great whenever this documentary, where is there
41:12
going? We don't want more money.
41:13
We want more time in the can and I.
41:16
Think that you can see that in so many of the McCoy stories
41:20
because they're clearly under rehearse, under rehearse and you
41:25
can tell that the model makers are like one step away from
41:29
doing something really amazing. And then when they do get the
41:33
time or whatever, the stars align.
41:35
You get that bit at the end of Dragon Fire where you see Ice
41:39
World moving through space and you got the.
41:42
Is it Dominic Glynn? Yeah.
41:43
That beautiful. Yeah.
41:45
Really, genuinely epic and looks as good as anything else that
41:50
was sort of at the time, you know, looks great.
41:52
And it can work so well. I think that's the thing that
41:55
hurts the most, when things then don't work and you're like,
41:58
yeah, but we know this could be done.
42:02
A bit more time, but you could have worked on those cheetah
42:04
people faces and they could have best look.
42:06
Yeah, that's like Puss in Boots and things like.
42:08
That yeah, absolutely. And, and just yeah, little
42:11
retakes every so often, you know, just like maybe or maybe
42:15
maybe pitch that down a little bit, Sylvester, maybe like, you
42:18
know, that that that could have worked really well as well.
42:20
I would never say there's a production team behind Doctor
42:23
Who that doesn't want to make the best quality product that
42:27
they ever can, because I think that's true throughout all of
42:30
the 80s. I think everyone working on it
42:32
was it to be as good as it can be.
42:34
What I think happens post the the cancellation in after
42:41
Revelation of the Daleks is then you have a production team that
42:45
not only is loving what they're doing, but they've also got
42:48
something to prove as well. Yeah, and and you can see that
42:51
they're pushing and pushing and pushing and the resources are
42:54
like 70% there. And, and they just, you know,
43:00
and I don't think they'll ever they would ever produce anything
43:03
that grade and that would have been happy with no, you know,
43:06
but they're they're pushing to to make it as good as it can
43:10
possibly be. And you can actually feel with
43:13
some of the stories that that they're sort of stretching it
43:16
beyond. Yeah.
43:18
Yeah, yeah, inequality has the right to be.
43:21
Yeah. Well, it's like if you imagine
43:22
what when if they've managed to get a Co production, if in
43:27
19901990 they'd managed to get a company that actually wanted to
43:31
Co produce it or externally produce it or whatever.
43:34
Just quite how good it could have been that sort of like like
43:37
a final McCoy season but with a bit more money, you know?
43:42
Yeah, a bit more time. I think production techniques
43:45
suddenly catch up with America in the 90s as well.
43:48
A lot of it's being done on film.
43:50
Look at Red Dwarf. A lot of the special effects
43:52
work suddenly becomes very well, not always, but mostly very
43:55
polished. And model work in Red Dwarf is
43:58
oh, brilliant. Yeah.
44:00
So I think I think it's my big what if is what if you talk to
44:05
was on in the 90s, but then we would have the TV movie and I.
44:09
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's like we got, we, we, we
44:12
could be happy with what we did get as well.
44:16
But I think this is as good a mark of quality and people can
44:22
be laughing at me, listen to this, I don't give a shit.
44:24
This is as good as a mark of quality of what they could do in
44:27
the late 80s as, as anything else.
44:31
In terms of the direction, in terms of the writing, certainly
44:35
in terms of the performances. I don't think there's a dud
44:37
here, Belinda Mayne aside. And yeah, don't worry.
44:41
She's the creation of the universe or something by the
44:44
end. Yeah, I I just think it is
44:48
pretty special. Well, should we?
44:50
Should we dare to do our three fabulous things before we out
44:54
this episode? Oh, yes, OK.
44:57
Had you forgotten you had to do this?
44:59
No, no turning back. Turning back to my notes.
45:03
Why don't you go first? Go on.
45:05
OK, so I want to go for my first fabulous thing is the sense of
45:10
world building having talked about for Delta being the the
45:15
core of the earth and all of that.
45:17
But I think I really like it's things like having the toll, the
45:20
toll port. It's things like having the
45:23
assassin who's out to kill the Doctor.
45:25
There's it's more than world building, it's universe
45:26
building, but there's this sense of the doctor exists within a
45:30
wider and exciting universe. I think that really is something
45:34
that Andrew Carmel was really passionate about, and I think
45:37
that comes across brilliantly here in this kind of wild, wacky
45:41
races sort of adventure. And I think that's something
45:43
that's really special about Delta.
45:45
And you don't necessarily feel it as much elsewhere, but I
45:49
think for one, in this one story, you get a real sense of
45:51
that. There's a reason why we could
45:53
Add all that weird extraneous detail that we did throughout
45:57
this, right, is because the potential is all there.
45:59
I mean, you know, like you said with this, other things like
46:02
that, the Skegness Glee club coming along at the end, there's
46:05
automatically a story there to be told, right?
46:07
Oh God, yeah, yeah, absolutely. An innocent club from Skegness,
46:12
I think. Bollocks.
46:15
Well, unusually for my first one, I am going to say Sylvester
46:18
McCoy, which I don't. I very rarely will say what, I
46:21
just think he is terrific in season 24 for the most part.
46:27
And I think he's realized how to play the Doctor at this point.
46:31
And that's early, right? There's three stories in.
46:33
He's only done what, 8 episodes before this?
46:37
But he's handed a script where he's cute and funny and gets a
46:42
decent dramatic speech and makes friends and it's just all all of
46:47
the things that play into his strengths.
46:51
I think he's cute as hell in this story.
46:53
And yeah, I love him. I love him more of this.
46:57
I would have wanted more of this.
46:58
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think if then if you've
47:01
gone for Sylvester McCoy, I'm going to go for Bonnie Langford
47:04
because I think this is, I think this is kind of Mel at her best
47:09
in terms of the kind of performance, in terms of
47:12
actually getting stuff to do, in terms of like how great she
47:15
looks in the costumes as well. It's just part of it too.
47:17
It's really, really great. And I don't think I was really
47:21
hoping that RTD two would give her good material and give her
47:26
something better, but that hasn't turned out that way.
47:29
So I, I kind of think this is, I kind of think this is the best
47:33
she ever gets to be, but I think.
47:35
She have two runs and no background at all.
47:40
Except that we know that all her family died, which is a lovely
47:43
little like. So it's like a great.
47:46
All vanished or something. They're all just gone.
47:48
They're not there. Anymore, all those lovely family
47:51
members we meet in the big Finnish audios, it's like, no,
47:53
they're all gone now. OK, but but but but five days
48:02
old. But as good as she ever gets,
48:04
you say. As good as she ever gets.
48:06
And I think I think it just really shows also that she has
48:10
real range as a performer that I think people often sort of
48:14
unfairly not. No, I know now there's been a
48:16
bit of a renaissance people who sort of appreciate she is
48:18
actually a good actress. But you know, back in the day,
48:21
people weren't very kind to also.
48:24
But I think it shows she can sort of do a bit of everything
48:26
and she gets the nice like the bit when she's like, can I trust
48:30
you? She's like, yes.
48:31
And you do get that sense of, but there's a certain sort of
48:35
comedy value to the character as well.
48:37
But I think that all just comes across really well.
48:39
And this is the perfect story for that sort of earnest good is
48:43
good and bad is bad kind of character.
48:45
It's all of a fairy tale, isn't it?
48:47
Yeah, absolutely. That's it, exactly.
48:49
So Mel works really well in this in this world.
48:52
So I think, yeah, Bonnie Langford, is it really great in
48:54
this? There's like a big difference
48:56
between the start of Paradise Towers, where she's like, oh,
49:00
let's go, doctor, please agree. Oh, look at the pool.
49:04
It looks lovely to her, just being on that bus and dancing
49:09
and just having a great time with people you know.
49:11
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
49:13
My God, discretion is her middle name.
49:16
That's great. Oh God, I need shoes for.
49:18
Oh, of course. I mean, it could be the location
49:21
work because I do. I just love hanging out in the
49:24
sun in the woods with these people.
49:27
Actually, I really want to praise Kef McCullough.
49:30
Yes, good. OK.
49:31
For his insanely eccentric 50s themed score where he's having
49:38
to, he's having to sort of do action sequences, he's having to
49:43
do genocides, he's having to do parties, he's having to do it
49:48
all. He's not afraid.
49:50
He brings a lot of energy, a lot of personality to the story.
49:55
And I mean, I would never say in a million years I didn't have
49:59
fun talking with you because I've laughed my head off
50:01
tonight. But the one thing I've missed is
50:03
that music when we're talking. For it and.
50:06
I feel the same way whenever I do a commentary and the score is
50:09
as good as this. And it is a great score.
50:12
The fact that you've got the actual singers there at the end,
50:17
tonally it's perfect. People say it's cringe.
50:21
No, it's a it's a fairy tale ending where love wins.
50:24
Of course you're going to sing. Love is the answer.
50:27
Yes, absolutely. OK, now I've got a game for my
50:31
third one and I'm, I'm torn, but I think I'm going to go for
50:37
Andrew Cartmel because I think we wouldn't have this if it
50:43
weren't for him. He had, he came in with that
50:47
sort of openness to experimentation that maybe we
50:52
hadn't seen for a while. Not that they weren't some
50:56
experimental stories, but I think the last time that we got
50:59
something this wild would have been Christopher Bailey's stuff,
51:03
like where it really feels like it's different.
51:08
I think he had a really interesting vision for the show.
51:12
I'm never sure quite how much I believe when he talks about what
51:17
his plans were for the show, I don't know how much of that is
51:20
him sort of expanding on when he's like, we wanted to bring
51:25
down the government and all this stuff.
51:26
And I'm like, yeah, I don't know, like if you actually went
51:29
in with exactly that in mind. But he definitely had a vision
51:32
for the show. Punchline in an interview,
51:34
though. Isn't it exactly.
51:35
That's it, Yeah, it's. Yeah.
51:37
It's become one of those like convention circuit stories,
51:39
doesn't it? But it but I think, but I think
51:41
it's still really it's really clear that he had ideas for the
51:46
show, that he knew what the show could be and he was willing to
51:51
bring in new voices to help the show kind of evolve and develop.
51:56
And I think that is never more clear than in Delta and the
51:59
bannerman. So I mean, I'm not going to say
52:02
Malcolm Cole because I think it's a great script, but I don't
52:05
know if that's representative of his work or if it was just a one
52:08
off. I don't know.
52:09
But in well, in either case, this is a very good script from
52:13
Malcolm Colt, so I guess it goes to him too.
52:14
But I think Cartmel, for bringing these people in,
52:17
deserves a lot of praise. It's the only time, I think,
52:21
when the Sylvester McCoy are truly relaxes for an entire
52:25
story. And that that's Cartmel right?
52:29
Saying no, let's have fun in the 50s.
52:32
Oh God, absolutely. Yeah, Yeah, let's go on holiday.
52:34
The fuck can I get to write this with all these disparate
52:38
elements? Jesus Christ.
52:39
I mean, I do think you're right. I think he had so many great
52:43
instincts. Sometimes I think he was weirdly
52:50
too ambitious for Doctor Who. And I would rather Doctor Who be
52:55
too ambitious. But half the time I don't think
52:58
they ever had a chance of he of creating the vision of Doctor
53:03
Who that he had in his head. And you can see him in
53:06
interviews kind of, oh God, I just, I had this look for
53:09
Paradise Towers and then I saw the BBC studios, you know, and
53:14
stuff like this. So I think his instincts were
53:16
great. He would have made wonderful
53:18
movies in the late 80s. Oh.
53:21
Yeah. The the ideas are never dry with
53:24
Andrew Cartmel. No, I just think sometimes,
53:28
sometimes he needs a little bit of that.
53:30
Philip Hinchcliffe going can we do this?
53:33
Like can we do this cat people? Can we do this?
53:37
Just the hand on the shoulder like no, no.
53:39
Yeah, yeah. But then there's many a new
53:41
series showrunner that I think need that advice as well.
53:45
Absolutely. My criticism is he's too
53:48
ambitious. That's a kind of minor
53:51
criticism. Yeah, absolutely.
53:53
And what with the last thing then?
53:55
Oh, there's so many, so many. Should it be Ray?
53:59
Should it be Belinda Main for all the joy that she's brought
54:03
us tonight? No, I actually want to highlight
54:06
something we haven't really talked about at all, but I think
54:11
is very clever and it's a lovely detail and that is creating this
54:17
race of people and making the parallels with the bees.
54:22
I. I think even down to the design
54:25
where they've got like the hexagons on there, like I just,
54:28
I think it's, it's a, it's a unique alien race, the
54:33
Shimmerons. And we see the stages right from
54:37
the baby right to her being a young adult and the space of
54:41
like 2 days or something. And it's well thought through
54:44
and it's mostly well executed. However, all of that is
54:49
completely out the window compared to the Navarinos that
54:53
we see in episode 1. Truly the greatest design of any
54:58
Doctor Who creature ever. The Navarinos is my third thing.
55:02
Yes. Oh the God has the great purple
55:07
turds. I mean, well, I mean, I just
55:13
don't know where we could possibly go after all this
55:15
insanity tonight, Martin. What, What, what?
55:18
What, where, Who? Well, So what one thing we did,
55:22
we did mention was that we this was that we were on Barry Island
55:25
here, but we didn't really maybe get a sense of that.
55:29
We you know, we got that one shot we get to see in the
55:31
background. So we, I think maybe we we can
55:34
go from this little island in the Bristol Channel that we
55:37
didn't really see much of to maybe another very little island
55:41
over the other side on, on Fang Rock.
55:46
Oh, Fang Rock, you say? That's where we didn't even go
55:49
to a location and they managed to make it more power.
55:52
Than it is, it's still, it's still more convincing than Barry
55:55
Island, apparently, yeah. Those Birmingham studios, I'll
55:58
tell you what they they make a very convincing damp island
56:01
they. Really do.
56:03
Unbelievably, nobody has chosen to do the commentary on horror
56:09
Fang Rock, one of the most celebrated Doctor Who.
56:12
Stories. Of all time.
56:14
Shocked by that. I am really, really shocked by
56:17
that. And I horror fan rock is the one
56:21
I use to show people who haven't seen Doctor Who before what
56:25
Doctor Who can do. That's that's kind of how
56:28
important it is to me as a Doctor Who story.
56:30
As the one I would use to show how good Terrence Dix is,
56:36
because I think everybody thinks he's a very, very good script
56:40
editor and a pretty good scriptwriter, but that script is
56:46
so tight. So tight.
56:48
So well characterized, there are opportunities for the actors
56:51
there to really strut their stuff, and there's opportunities
56:55
for the director to show off everything she can do.
56:59
A rare female director. I think we'll have a wonderful
57:02
time. I mean, I don't know if we'll
57:03
laugh as much as we did in Dara and the Bannermen.
57:06
No, it's not. Laugh a minute.
57:08
Horrifying rock, but. A massacre generally isn't.
57:13
Yeah, it's more cower and horror and terror, but yeah, no, I
57:16
think we'll enjoy it. OK, well then let's let's have a
57:19
look at all the horror tropes on Fang Rock.
57:21
I can't wait. It sounds absolutely delightful
57:24
how we end this in a delta and the bannermen kind of a way.
57:33
We've already done. Our Here's to the future.
57:43
Do. You know what, I'll pump in a
57:47
bit of music as well and. Ohh yes, sort of like wonderful.