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#51 Is Greek Life Worth It? · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

So initially I was always so sure of the fact that rushing a sorority would never be for me So now that I'm in the midst of it, I definitely have had moments of regret. Um, or at least reconsideration. , I've wondered why, you know, this has to be as stressful as it needs to be., this is something I definitely don't know if I can recommend to everyone. I think one of the first reasons I can start off with for it being so hard is the socialization part.I have anxiety and I think That many of these large groups and gatherings of people are not necessarily considerate of introverts and nervous people and things like that. So I have been getting very overwhelmed and it's hard when it seems like a lot of the people are just enjoying their time and I'm struggling. Russ was definitely interesting at the start. To be honest, I didn't really like it because you only talk to somebody for, you know, five minutes or so because the rounds is are really short. It was definitely worth it all the whole thing because I've met some of my best friends and I'll be friends with my entire life I'm Dr. Sarah Olivo and I'm Dr. Liz Seidler and you're listening to College is Fine. Everything's fine.alright, we're back for the 2024. 2025. School year. Liz, I would say it's good to see you, but I saw you earlier today I'll tell everybody Liz very graciously helped me host a webinar which we can share parts of with this audience. We'll we'll post some of it here for you in a little while, but , it was earlier in the day and I just gotta say we looked brighter and Happier. And, and, and for those of you who can't see, and maybe we'll do a, you know, show on tech talk.I did try to do a Liz wave, a little Liz curl. , it's so sad, so sad here down here. And you've got like five still going. I've got my one little sad hanger on. So, um, but it's, uh, but it's good to see you and kind of just starting in my day, like a little less sandwich.I know, well I still think your hairlooks great and I'm trying to dress like a college student with a sweatshirt and leggings and crew length socks because I've been told higher socks or ankle socks are no bueno.Crew links. um,Okay.Good to know. I feel ready to tackle this really important topic, um, that a lot of college students are thinking about aroundYes, and you know, we are talking about is it worth rushing and we realize that you're either in the thick of it already Or it's not coming till later in the semester.So for those of you who are in the thick of it already, you've already decided to rush or not, probably at this point. And if you are in it, and a lot of the people we've talked to are, you still might be wondering, kind of, is rush worth it? So we thought that we would take you through a few things that we hear and just some perspectives to consider as you're going through this process, because it's long, it's a marathon.Whether you enjoy it or not, you're probably tired and, and overwhelmed. So we just wanted to kind of send you guys out some, some tips and some support and a little encouragement.Yeah, I think we really want people to find their wise mind about is this important to me in terms of is it going to enhance my college experience and I think it can be really scary and daunting.Just the word rush. I think a lot of it's like, it's a lot to unpack and it's different at every university. And, of course, we're not going to have a lot of time to get into all those details, but we can at least kind of talk a little bit about what are we hearing from college students will actually hear a little bit in this episode from actual college students.So you can have some. You know, areas to consider when you're making your decisionYeah, no, exactly. So I think that, you know, there's so many different ways we could go about talking about Greek life. And we realized we're only scratching the surface here. Uh, we are talking pretty specifically about the rush process, , but involved in that is the decision to rush or not to rush. So obviously, there's that piece to it, and we think it's important to consider what the perceptions are often of what rush is like, and some of the realities that people face once they're there., I have found, and by the way, I think it's worth us both disclosing, I rushed. I rushed. , I was the rushed chair of my sorority and that gets, yes, I have so many different reactions to that. Some people are like, oh, that's so great. And other people, especially in my, our psychology field, for instance, in grad school said, oh, I'm so sorry.I, I. I didn't realize basically that you were a bad person, right? There you go the range of assumptions about what this is that i've experienced and I was like well I didn't realize it was a bad person either. Um, okay, that's that's news. No They were they were teasing I think um, what do you find are the biggest the most Common perceptions and then maybe some of the biggest reality checksYeah, well, let me just preface this. I went to a Jesuit school and the Jesuits have decided that Greek life is not okay ontheir campuses. And what compared to my friends from high school, there were other schools. I remember feeling so relieved because I was so anxious about this popularitycontest. I was going to have to like present my best self and then also choose.I think a lot of people don't realize it's a two way evaluation. I think a lot of times one of the things I think that happens is people think it's a one way evaluation and therefore sometimes they're not really thinking about fit and is the sorority or fraternity a good fit? So I say this cause I'm like relieved and it actually gives me, um, anxiety as a therapist when my patients are going through the rush process.Cause I know how. Challengingit can be Mm hmm. I think the most common perception is that it's a social competition, and I think that's what I heara lot now, right? Like, I'm not cool enough. I'll never get into this sorority. This is like. A geeky frat, like, all the cool guys are in this1 frat, you know, like, just a lot of judgments.right I mean by definition these are categories even though it's a club and they get labels and Assumptions are made about the group overall and some of those assumptions can be true. I do think that there is a it is a time ripe for comparisons So I you know, I don't know I I found that some people go in You know, all all gung ho.You know, it's been part of their family forever. They're ready for it. And it's kind of what they expected. And they, you know, it's sort of smooth sailing. I think other people go in expecting that and are quite disappointed or it's different from what, we're Their friends or their parents experienced, um, I think that there's a lot of other people and pressures deciding whether you should or shouldn't.And so it just becomes this, like. You know, this assumption, I'm either the kind of person who rushes, or I'm the kind of person who doesn't. Um, I think you'll find in our tips that we're gonna say, all of the above, right, are really normal. And it's okay to go in, expecting one thing, and then to realize, oh my gosh, I don't know if this is for me, or to second guess the process, or to be happily surprised that it's not as bad as you think.It's sort of like, there's almost any way you can shake it out, so one of the things too, we hear a lot and you already alluded to this Liz is the idea of I'm not meant for it. You know, you heard some of the people, you know, describing their experience that I'm an introvert, you know, so this is tougher for me. Or I'm not quote unquote cool enough, all these labels. I think on the 1 hand. These organizations. Promote socialization, right? There are a lot of social commitments that are expected, from my understanding,, and potential consequences when you don't attend someOh, yeah. engagements. So, um, if I was heading into that as an introvert, I would feel really overwhelmed by the prospect of having to commit a lot of my time and energy to being around people. I also think sometimes that's magnified, maybe some people become really black and white about it, that they might not realize that the types of social experiences might be something that. They benefit from as an introvert? It doesn't have to be. Seen as this daunting, overwhelming, , expectation. , so, but I do think this is like, where, like, do your, um.Yeah, a little bit, you know, and talk to other people, , who've gone through the process and really get to know these organizations. I do, I do really like the idea of taking stock. And so you go and you probably have heard, um, this is the sorority or fraternity to be in. Or everybody from this town does this. And, okay, sure, there might be reasons for that. , but you want to be a bit more scientific in your, in your decision making.You say, okay, let me, let me pause for a second. This is four years of my life. Okay. And I want to make sure that this fits kind of who I am and want to be, , and fits the mold of what I want to have happen in my college experience. And I also think that there are plenty of clubs that can provide social, Opportunities that don't have to do with rush, and I think that there are a lot of sororities and fraternities that do a better balance, right, between Different philanthropy and just having it be a social scene and some people just really like having You know, I think that's one of the biggest benefits that people say is it's it's kind of nice to have the social structure I I know that there's a plan but one of the things I think regardless of kind of whether you quote unquote fit the mold or not, is that rush is a very particular part of this and it's not necessarily like this forever.It is a moment in time. You know, maybe it's a week, maybe it's a month. It is, it is a lot. And I think it's a time that does really test limits. Um, and one of those limits might be, Hey, the limit of my own, uh, Kind of personality type or what I think is appropriate or kind of going past my comfort zone in some way It's probably gonna test some of that It's a time.It's an extreme time for better and for worse And that's where sometimes, and again, every school's different. You know, I'm working with somebody who's pretty introverted and is like on the fence about rushing. But they don't usually allow sophomores in and they don't have a winter rush. So I'm like, kind of like, really push yourselfand just try, right?Like, see what happens and ultimately, it ends up not being a good fit for you in the long term. Um, you don't have to be an active member in the organizationany hmm,  but I, I think those worry thoughts about, am I the type of person who rushes really get in theway for people, right? Just because I maybe don't like to party as much as other people or whatever the worry thought is.Um, I think it's important to let those go if, particularly, and I think this can be helpful for introverts. I don't know what you think, Sarah. Having structured social time where you're not initiating a lot of plans and they are kind of built into your schedule, I really do think can be helpful for introverts. Um, and, and not just introverts, people who struggle with anxiety, let's say, even in socialsituations. It takes the planning and the initiation, which is usually the hardest part forRight, or I'll talk to people sometimes who are just, you know, they're like, I don't have time to catch up, or I feel like I'm going to lose friends because I'm texting, I'm not good at texting back, or I kind of lose track, and I'm like, all right, well, here's, here's a way there is that structure to it, um, so you're never going to, if you are on the fence, you're never going to know for sure if it's worth your time unless you try it, and that'll then help you confirm or disconfirm what those assumptions are, um, All right.So the other part we talked about, you said rush. It's extreme. The word in and of itself says that. So unless you are the biggest extrovert ever, just to be clear, introverts tend to have social situations, whether they enjoy them or not. drain their energy. They're sort of social battery. Extroverts get more energy from it.So there are people who might be going out and this is just giving them more and more energies, whereas other people, all this stuff is sort of like their kryptonite. I was in that category. I like talking to people, but I remember going home and rushing and being, and putting my, Head on on my bed and covering it.So my roommates wouldn't talk to me because I was so tired I was just done. Um, so the social burnout is real for most people. They find that they're feeling overwhelmed and I think that we need to think about this social burnout just like any other burnout. Pay attention to it. Um, This is a little different because some of the aspects of it aren't always in people's control.You're you're told to come to this thing or hey, last minute, a schedule shift has changed and you need to put something off, um, in order to sort of still be part of the group or show your commitment. And not to stereotype, I do know that fraternities oftentimes are even more so, like, willing to let you fail a class to show your commitment because you're needing to do the laundry of the senior members.So I do think it's a time to to really say to yourself, all right, what, what do I need to put into place so that a, I can just at least gather more resources. because I will be socially burnt out. Where can I give myself breaks in other ways? And B, can I make sure that I'm not putting something in place that is going to cause a long term impact on my grades or my well being? I do think that viewing it as a temporary process, and being able to, think about in five years from now, would I regret not doing this? I, I don't know anyone who's graduated and was part of Greek life. And stayed in it thatregrets it. I do know that most people. That are in that bucket said rush waschallenging,like, I don't think anyone would say it was like the easiest. process,? But I think most people would say it was worth it, ? If they found, an organization that was a good fit for them., but I agree too. It's like you don't want all the wheels to fall off in your first two months of school because of these commitments.You really have to do some problem solving to figure out how can I prioritize this because I'm going to beforced to while also attending to these other things like my sleep, grades, classes, etYeah, it might be a time where you have to sprinkle that in when you can, kind of catch as catch can, you know, take that nap. , you know, if you get a, if you get a break or if there's an extracurricular thing that you can get out of that's not part of rush, let that go without concern or worry. You know, if you have friends from home who are texting you and you aren't able to text back, it's okay, they'll be there when rush is over.So just try to kind of edge out some of the extra as much as you can, because it is more time and, and give yourself that break. Okay. All right. Last but not least, um, although this is a harder kind of longer topic is the toll now versus the benefits later. And we've talked about this, you know, we've hinted at it, but if you think about, does this experience overall, right?You're in rush and you're saying, and you're starting to think, is it right for me, should I continue? And you said something I thought was really kind of a key thing, which is the people who did it and then stayed in it felt like it was worth it. Which tells me, and I know many people who did it, who said I did it.It was a nice thing for a time and then I quit, right? I deactivated or I was not as much of an active member and there are various ways to do that without much drama. By the time people tend to do that, it's because so many people have broadened outside of this one particular group in terms of their social circle, or they're starting to think about next steps like jobs.So it's not always going to be as intense for you as it is those first few years. You're going to have to expand unless you plan on joining the philanthropic National Board, you know. Sorority and fraternity life won't stay. Such a central focus. So the toll now. So there's time, there's money and there's the emotional health that you have to go through.We don't talk a lot about the financial toll. That a lot of students have to think through, but the truth is that sororities and fraternities are expensive and It could be something where there's a sense of pressure To do it knowing that it's testing the financial boundaries of your of your budget or your family's budget How does that how do you navigate that?There's also the time cost. We've talked a bit about the reduction in study time. So I just think that yes, on the one hand, we're saying this is crazy week, but I do think that this is a time to pull back a little bit and remind yourself of past self, current self and future self. I think this is, you know, as we're talking about, like, there's so many things in life, right? That have this, like, really big hurdle in the beginning. And then you look back on and you're like, oh, my gosh, that was so worth it.. And whether it's this being part of Greek life, which I think is true.I've seen this. Networking opportunities, alumni opportunities, . It's a real sense of pride community that a lot of people carry through the rest of their lives. But you're not really seeing that when you're, you know, being told what you need to wear every single day or you're doing laundry or you're running errandsfor people. It's hard to kind of see like what value is this going to have for me, but. It's that short term, long term. Can I kind of zoom out from my current, you know, view and think about what else is going to be added into the picture later on in mycollege career? Are those things that are worthwhileto me?Yeah, and you actually said this, I'm just the one who wrote it down for our little outline here, but is this something that's going to enhance my college experience? It's going to be hard to know that at first. We know that there are ways that people have found a lot of benefit from it.And of course, the people who you are hearing from. In our sound clips are people who've decided to rush or decided to stick with it. And so that's a bit of a bias I will say so many people choose not to and guess what they're still thriving they have they found a way to have a a space on campus. They, they invested more time in the sports teams that were there or a different community.And I think that they felt just as enriched. And so that's something to remember that for a lot of colleges, Greek life can be the loudest, the most obvious and most prominent. It might have the longest history. Um, so it's going to be the most obvious in some ways. Um, and Universities are very dedicated to making sure that every student has a space.And so it might just be looking a little deeper to find something that isn't as obvious or loud, you know, um, but that feels more authentic and more like who you are as a person, because it can take something to, you know, with these kind of classifications. If your sense of self worth is wrapped up in this process too closely, I think that you're going to suffer for whether you're on the quote unquote good or the bad side of that.If your sense of self worth is tied to the right sorority and you get in, then you're going to continue to try to, and that's reinforcing, you're going to continue to try throughout your life to always join whatever version of the popular sorority is happening at work or in graduate school or at your internship.And it's just, this is a four to five year time of your life. There needs to be other ways that you find a sense of self , I really appreciate that. I know it's really hard to be a freshman rushing and to be really confident in yourself. But I, I do think asking yourself the question, like, what value do I have to this organization?Like, what can I kind of offer to them? And I think if you are confident that you havesomething to offer. That will help you not kind of tie it up in terms of your self worth? And really feel like, okay, like, just like, you don't want to go to a college just based upon its prestige, right? That you want to go somewhere that's a good fit. And same thing with this process of rushing. But I agree that the all or nothing thinking, if my college experience, if it doesn't go the way that I expect it, like I'm not going to have a good experience, is definitely not the case, even if it feels like that during this rushingRight. So I think the overall thought about this is the shine, whether it's the right kind of shine and it's shining on you or it's not shining on you and you feel upset about that, that goes away and it's short lived and you're going to find some other way to have to navigate your sense of value. Um, so might as well start now.Why wait? Yeah. You know, my personal experience and when I felt like I had matured past that label was when actually as rush chair, um, which I kind of was a reluctant long story job. I wasn't someone who was a shoo in for that necessarily. I wasn't campaigning. And when I got to the meeting of all the Rush chairs, I realized that I was friends with most of the people at the table. And what I mean by that is to say that everybody had sort of shaken off their club name and label, and everyone had sort of reintegrated into each other's lives and found some of the friendships that they had before Rush, and connected to those initial really organic, organic, You know, um, communities or those initial organic friendships.So I do think that that is a nice trajectory that you want to have, which is okay. Have some fun, let it be a positive in your life. And if it starts to feel like it's a label, that's kind of holding you back, really let it expand. That's a sign of growth. That is something I think about a lot where I was just like, oh, I do. I feel like I'm a grown up now. Like. Well, we're glad we solved all your rush problemshere. goodness. Yeah. If I can find a picture of me during rush, I will, I will share.please rush chair sound off in the comments. If you knew Sarah during her appointment.People are going to be like, who, what? See, no one's going to remember. a lot of people that I have become acquainted with, or that I considered friends, were a part of the social clubs and they say it's just so much fun and the genuine sisterhood that they built from it, um, is something that they have never regretted, even over their experience with the Rush process and Pledge Week and everything that comes with that.So, I decided to just do it. And I'm very excited to potentially become an active and to, you know, actually start participating as a active member in this club. So I definitely would tell my freshman yourself, um, you know, do it earlier. I, I would do wish I would have done it earlier so that I can benefit of being a part of the club for longer.the balance of school and work has probably been the hardest. Balancing studying with, you know, late nights up till 10 or 11 o'clock at night was very difficult. But I feel like now that I've gotten past that, I'm I'm only feeling positive and optimistic about the rest of this week, and I definitely wouldn't change anything else or ask for anything differently. , one of the other things I can say that's very hard for me, and it is different with every club, is my sense of freedom.Because We have to wear certain clothes all the time, walk with people to class, attend activities late at night. So I can't do what I want with my nighttime. And that's just been hard because this whole night process came out of nowhere. And I love my structure, my schedules and my routine. So I feel like my day to day routine being completely shifted.was also very difficult for me, but thank God this is only a week.  I do think overall in the end, it will definitely be worth it just because there's a lot of good, personalities that I'm gonna be more excited to get to know better., I'm extremely sleep deprived and have Very much been questioning if this is something I want to go forward with yeah, don't know if I recommend this for everyone, the final ending process should hopefully be worth it. I do think it takes a very certain and specific type of person and personality to fully benefit off, like, this kind of experience. And I think you are really gonna want to have to want it, um, more than anything else because it is very tempting to just drop out and say, you know what, this is too much.It's getting too hard. I'm over it. I'm sick of it. So yes, do it. Do it. If you're thinking about it, do it. Thank you to our guests for sharing their stories and their advice. 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