Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 186: Charlotte Henshaw - The Hidden Struggle Athletes Face When Leaving Sport

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186: Charlotte Henshaw - The Hidden Struggle Athletes Face When Leaving Sport · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It got to the point where I just felt so confused with everything that I was doing.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing was bringing me happiness.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing was bringing me joy, or I couldn't see the positive opportunity that I'd been given.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: The only way I was thinking about it was negatively.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think other people then started to notice that I was just not in a great place.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, I'm so grateful for a support system that I have that they kind of said, I think you probably need to go and talk to somebody about how you're feeling.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't the only one.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: There were a few of us from swimming that had left at the same time who'd gone into different sports and different worlds.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we all kind of helped each other through that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of encouraged each other really to go and talk about what we were feeling.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's difficult in sport because you you kind of always feel like we've been given this beautifully privileged life.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: We get to do sport for a living.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's the dream, right?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: For a lot of kids, you know, being able to do sport for a living is the ultimate.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it often feels like if something goes wrong or you're struggling with something, well, actually, what have you got to complain about?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because you get to do sport for a living.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's really important to be able to acknowledge when even, you know, the most beautiful life can create this real sense of anxiety and lack of purpose.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to be able to recognise that.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalvis, and welcome to the Second Wind Academy Podcast.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: A show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Elite athletes are still people after sports.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Charlotte, welcome to the show.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Great to have you here today.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: All good.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I am quite looking forward to our conversation, mainly, because I say quite, not in a it's only a little bit, but I guess just in the English sense that, well, actually, quite excited about this.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: This will be good.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to speak to individuals who come from different sporting backgrounds, different pursuits, but then also seeing as what you've studied as well, I think it can just bring such a fascinating aspect to both your experience um but then also those who you see around you.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, again, always keen to learn.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for giving up a bit of your time just before the gym to share your perspective.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Get the brain going before I then go and get the body going.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's quite nice to get the the juices flowing early in the morning here.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be something that you'll be thinking of said, yeah, God, that was it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you'll be thinking that was a good chat.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm sure.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So look, Charlotte, there's going to be people watching and listening, trying to figure out so who are you, what are you about?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So can you just give us that little infomercial about who you are and what's going on in your world?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I am a Paralympic athlete and still competing, but it's been my life for um gosh, I don't know, I'm 39 now and I've I can't remember a time that I wasn't involved in Paralympic sport.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously to varying degrees.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of was set on my journey, I guess.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was born with my disability.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had both my legs amputated at 15 months old.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was that early experience of being a young disabled kid um kind of led me down the path of sport um because there wasn't a great deal of opportunity where I was from for a young disabled girl who was very, very active.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just happened to be from a part of the UK that um had a very good swimming swimming system, and the swimming community locally kind of welcomed me and my parents to kind of into their world, but to learn alongside me.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't sort of profess to have much experience with disabled kids who wanted to be active, but they were willing to sort of give me that opportunity, and it was that really that led me on my path towards the Paralympics, which happened in 2008.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it took quite a long time to get there, but I was kind of nurtured by my local community.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, since that very early start, I've um I did three Paralympic Games as a swimmer, winning medals in London and Rio.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I retired from swimming and, you know, by chance was given an opportunity to get into another sport, and I joined the Paralympic canoeing team in 2017, and I just kind of entered it as a this is a new challenge.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I like to sort of push myself and put myself outside on my comfort zone is what I needed at the time.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't really foresee that I would be embarking on the most successful part of my career to date at the age of 29.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I then moved into a second sport, and you know, since I moved over, I've won 11 world titles, I've won three Paralympic gold medals at two games.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, what started as this kind of love for being active as a kid has grown into my life and my job.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to call it a job, I don't call it a job.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it set me on my journey, and I think it's absolutely shaped who I am and how I navigate the world for sure.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even just that I mean, that's a great story.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the bits that I hear that really resonate to me is the fact you had a career as a power swimmer, retired from that.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming of the belief, yeah, I'm I'm done.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've I've done what I can do at this level, time to go figure out something else.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know what you figured out, what you thought you were going to be doing then.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then you came to another sport that you I guess didn't realise the potential you had and how far that could take you.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And when you look back at that, is it a lot of luck that comes through in your sporting life, or do you see that, well, actually, people saw some talent that was there?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's potentially a little bit of both.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have to have the opportunities presented to you at the right time.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's about timing, I think, more than luck.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so this the opportunity to come to a second sport arrived when I needed it to.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the transferable skills from one sport to another were more impactful than I'd really realised.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I realized what those transferable skills were until I tried a new sport, and I thought, okay, I might not know how to do the actual skill, but I I have other traits that will hopefully put me in a good place to be good at this.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was a really interesting time that I made my switch over.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was turning 30 in the January, and I moved over to canoeing sort of just before that, and I had to have a go.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of my friends, I'm friends with um the women that I went to secondary school with and we're still very, very close.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we're the same age, my friendship group were all of the same age.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And quite a lot of us had this kind of feeling when we were about to turn 30 that, you know, if they were wanting to move careers or they wanted to try something new, that was the time that they kind of did.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it felt like a time when a lot of the people around me were looking for something different or to push themselves outside of their comfort zone.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I think it is really interesting when you get that feeling, or you just kind of have to trust that, you know, you might need a change and trust in that and allow yourself to experience new things because like I would never have anticipated how successful my career was going to be at the age of 30.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when everybody is telling you, you know, you're you're getting quite old to be an athlete, and you know, I'm still going and I'm 39 now.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's important to trust your instinct and kind of follow that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So let's take it back then to you as a as a child.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: You say you were born with your disability.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's the disability?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not got a name.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was born with legs that were underdeveloped and I had club feet, I was missing bones and muscles in my legs.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the legs that I was born with were not functional.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: They were more of a hindrance than anything.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And my parents and my doctors were trying to come up with ways to try and make me as independent and as active as I possibly could be.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when it got to 15 months and various things had not worked how they'd intended, they said, you know, I I actually think that the best opportunity for Charlotte to be as independent as possible is to have an amputation because then it opens up the opportunity for prosthetics.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was a decision that like obviously my parents, um, it was a big one for them.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time there was no sort of diagnosis, it was just what the impairment sort of presented as.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just kind of say that I'm a double leg amputee, but the cause is kind of unknown.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mystery.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go with that mystery and then we'll let the smaller fade.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, with that then, what role did sport play for you in that, I guess in that journey of either independence or using energy?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what perhaps what were your parents thinking, but what role did sport play for you?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think initially it was the water provided me with time outside of my prosthetics.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't wear my legs in the pool.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gave me freedom.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: It also used, you know, other muscles in my body and strengthened them, and it was almost a rehab kind of thing.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it also provided me with a sense of community.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I didn't have that, but I think it allowed me to sort of get involved in things that a lot of typical kids my age were doing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Most children, if they are fortunate enough to have the means, go to swimming lessons.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that was something that my parents felt very strongly about, that I should have as quote-unquote normal childhood as possible.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So trying to get me involved in extracurricular things that other able-bodied, non-disabled children were doing was part of their sort of way of helping me um feel like I was like everybody else and I could do things that other people were doing.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that was the initial kind of thought of putting me into something physical.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you, as you took to the sport, as you took to swimming, because I I love the fact that it was there to, I guess, give you equal opportun well, not equal, but to give you the similar opportunities that other kids were having.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you describe it as freedom.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: At what point did you start to then I say love swimming or start to feel, hey, I'm really enjoying this and I want it to take me somewhere?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think I didn't realise it at the time.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I for me it was just a hobby that I did, and I was a really active kid, so I I did swimming, I went to brownies and and guides, and I went to um badminton and I was busy.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to do stuff, and I'm an only child, so I think part of that was my parents wanted to make sure I was socializing with other children.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I seemed to do something after school every night.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were shuttling me around up here and everywhere.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, there was um a coach that had been involved in the Paralympic world, and he somehow saw me at a comp a gala, like a local kind of gala, and spoke to my parents and said, I think your daughter's really talented for her age, and I'm involved in the Paralympic world.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd love to kind of help her transition towards that if something that she she wants to do.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so he really introduced the more competitive side of swimming to me and my parents.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was from there, really, that then I was introduced to going to the disability swimming junior nationals.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was 10.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, then all of a sudden I was jumping on a minibus and going up to the north of England when I was 10 years old with other disabled kids, and we were going and competing.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that that then I really thought, okay, this is something.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really interesting.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I by chance met um a Paralympic gold medalist when I was 10, Emily Jennings, and she'd just come back from the Atlanta Games, and it was, you know, a chance meeting at this sports weekend for active disabled kids.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd gone down to the south of England, my parents had taken me down, and she was there sort of visiting, inspiring all of us youngsters.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't known what the Paralympics were until that point, because, you know, back then, this would have been the late 90s, Paralympic sport wasn't in our living rooms.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have social media.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was this whole world that we weren't aware of.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas now I think with the increased um accessibility to Paralympic sport, young kids are seeing Paralympians on their phones, on the television.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, that was something that it was a chance meeting that allowed me to kind of enter this world that now has become my life.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm incredibly grateful for that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was that moment really that kind of put the psych uh the Paralympics in my psyche.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I knew what they were, I was like, right, I want to go to the Paralympic Games.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful to hear that because it's one of the points as as people say, is you can't be what you can't see.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't until you saw her and and then realized, hey, there's I could be that, or at least how do I do that?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: How does that then motivate you to well to go into greatness, to you know, to give it that that push?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So what changed for you then?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because you know, there's there's this view that you you didn't have, okay, maybe it's after being 10 years old, it's maybe a bit later on.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: But when did you start to say, right, I'm properly training for this Paralympics?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be at the top nationally and maybe at in the world.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I went to my first senior nationals when I was 12.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's the youngest age you're allowed to enter senior nationals.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be 12 years old.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going and at that point I was racing alongside the current Paralympic swimming team.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember being completely overawed by all these amazing swimmers.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was then, sort of early teenage years, I think, that I started to, I was regularly going to nationals.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was getting more knowledge of that elite side of sport.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the time I was 15, 16, I was kind of knocking on the door of making um, it used to be called the World Class Potential Programme.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like the next generation of talented athletes.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, then the people that are in charge of making the decisions and the governing body start to notice you or whoever it is.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as they made contact with me and they said, you know, we really think you can make the next games in 2008.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, right, okay.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was at that point that I started um really seriously not doing other activities.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was swimming that I was fully focused on.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: All of the other things I had been doing started to fall away, and I replaced them with a swimming session before and after school.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was probably about 13 or 14 that I thought, okay, now's time and I've got an opportunity.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna train for the next foot or for the games.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: What happened with school at this point?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where did academics fit into your life?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I loved school.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was, apart from maths, which I hate, I was quite a good student.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I found school um not easy, but I was academically okay.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was gifted enough to cope with swimming and school.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But my school, you know, they we weren't a sports college or anything like that.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was um local comprehensive.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they again learned along with me.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: They were very understanding that by the time I was getting towards my GCSEs, I was also starting to compete for Great Britain.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was doing my A levels, I was on the Great Britain team.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was going away to race at various points of the year.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were really understanding with me.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really aware that I wanted to make sure that my school did schoolwork didn't suffer because you know, sport is a precarious life to have and it can end at any moment.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want to kind of have neglected my academic life for the good of my sport.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to see how long I could maintain both, and that's why I was so stubborn about going to university and doing my degree full-time, because I thought, well, I don't want to take eight years to do an undergrad, so if I can do it in four, I'll do it in four and I'll train full-time.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And partly is why I chose to go to a university that allowed me to train full-time.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sports-focused university, and so um I made it a priority.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want it to fall by the wayside.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what was then the the hardest part?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was the hardest part for you to get that balance as a as a swimmer, especially you know, coming through A levels, going into university, being on the on the you know, on Team GB, what did you find the most difficult part of that period?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think I found I felt like I just didn't have any time.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very busy, but I just did it.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was just what I did.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I knew that I had to train eight times a week in the pool and do three gym sessions, and I had to make time for physio, and I had to go to a day of lectures, and I had to do my dissertation on, you know, I just had to do that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was really fortunate that I was kind of I was also helped by the sports scholarship team at Sterling University, which is where I went.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And because they got a lot of athletes in their student body, they were very used to supporting elite athletes.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember sitting one of my end-of-year exams in in a hotel room in Berlin, and my coach was my invigilator because I had to do my exam, but I was also competing at the German Open.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So my uni were brilliant at sorting that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if I could do what everybody else was doing and do my sport, they would try and make that happen.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: They allowed me to live on campus for the whole time that I was at university, and usually you have to move out after the first year.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: But this pool was on campus, and so living there and being able to walk to the pool and then walk up to my lectures with wet hair and goggles marks given, but I made it on time to all of my stuff because I was living there, and so that support allowed me to not have that many like sticking points.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't that much that was really difficult.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: What could have been difficult was helped by that the people around you and understanding university, and then perhaps a coach you also were supportive in that regard as well.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about Paralympics then.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: What was it like for you making the Paralympics as a swimmer?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was everything, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Getting that I think I don't even know whether it's an email because it was 2008.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't actually remember how we got selected, but I just remember just being completely bowled over by being there.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the first time that I'd experienced that multi-sport environment.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: There were people, you know, not just from swimming, there were all sorts of athletes from all over the world, and it was just the most incredible experience.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually had a pretty rough time health-wise in Beijing.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I developed an infection um in my leg and it started coming on at the opening ceremony.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spent most of my time in Beijing using a wheelchair, and I I don't use a chair often.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I try and use my prosthetics as much as I can, and I was really quite poorly.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I thought, you know, I've waited all this time to be a Paralympian, and I didn't feel like I could call myself a Paralympian unless I'd raced.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I probably raced when I shouldn't have medically, but I was just desperate to compete.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so even with all of that, and I was disappointed in my fourth place because I had been kind of ranked in the medal positions on the world rankings, but even with all of that, it was just the most incredible experience because it was a you know, it was a dream realized to make the Paralympic team and be part of that was just incredible.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And once you'd reach that high, so you did the games, you fought to get into the games, you fought to compete with that illness.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but you know, you still got in the pool.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: When you came home, what had changed for your goals?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just achieved it.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was the thing you'd set out.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: What did you want next?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then I was desperate to win a medal because I had gone in to the games hoping, almost expecting to get a medal, and then I didn't.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I fell short of that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it took a bit of soul searching, but then actually it made me far more hungry to go to the next games.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, we knew that the games in 2012 were in London.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so if that's not going to get you excited to be able to, you know, compete at home games, then I don't quite know what would have made me excited at that point.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it made that journey from 2008 to 2012 a complete roller coaster.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I almost trained myself into the ground and I actually didn't qualify for the London Games um outright.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: I missed the qualifying time.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And between 2008 and 2012, I'd been world silver medalist.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'd broken the world record three times, and so I was capable of making that team.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I trained so hard because I was desperate to get to London and win a medal that actually it was totally counterproductive because I ended up being diagnosed with overtraining syndrome, chronic fatigue.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I was taken to London on a wild card selection.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was hugely at the mercy of our performance director at the time.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a real world.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: roller coaster over three and a half years to get to the Games in 2012.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so grateful that I was given that opportunity to race there.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: To this day, you know, remains 10 of the best days of my life.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what a great experience.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you say, not just Paralympics, but a home Paralympic game.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite incredible to be able to compete.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a game changer.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested now.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So well thinking of that, I'm now curious about how, you know, because you you you look at Paralympics you I guess after 2012, at what point do you start thinking or started creeping into your mind, I've won all I can in swimming.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to have to retire.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm interested what would you have done?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: What were you thinking you were going to do at the end of your swimming career?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at that point I was massively unprepared.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just had no idea because I'd won myself fully into being a full-time athlete.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I graduated from university and then I I'd always said I'll never be a full-time athlete.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll find it boring.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want something else to do with my life.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I came back from graduated from university in the June.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a Europeans in the October, won the European championships, and I just said right, I need to be a full-time athlete because the six months off whatever I'd done as a full-time athlete led to my best performance at that point.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought right that's what I've got to do.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so then you know one year went into nine or eight and I was a full-time athlete and I did nothing else.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so had I had to retire entirely from sport in 2016, I don't know what I would have done.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was very sure that I wanted to stay within Paralympic sport but I didn't know where or how and I hadn't really done much extracurricular stuff outside of sport and outside of my swimming.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was something that I was really mindful when I moved over to canoeing that I didn't want to totally neglect you know the other parts of who I am for my sport.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whilst going into canoeing you did that okay.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Were you still swimming when you start when you went into the canoeing no I I raced in the Rio games in the September and I left the pool of the final of that games and I never went back to the pool.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I had some time off and then I started prying canoeing a couple of months later so no I wasn't crossing over.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when you got out of the pool right Rio, fly home, get home done time off.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: What were you doing take when you were you know what what was happening in your world then are too many stories of bankruptcies mental health issues and unfortunately suicide.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's time to act every year we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life activity score.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: This might be a retirement injury or they need to juggle your careers between sport and a job.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: As a former English professional footballer I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking strategy innovation and now life coach career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to help those around me find their career second with find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group Second Wind Academy where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think partly some of that was in the last sort of 18 months of my swimming career I was having a really tough time.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I lost the love of my sport that I'd done since I was four years old.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was clinging on for the Rio games and you know so initially it was relief but as then once that had sort of subsided I was really struggling with what to do next.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I got this opportunity to contact canoeing and I thought okay this is really exciting I'm excited by this.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then I also had that other voice on my shoulder going you're only doing this because you haven't got anything else.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're only doing this because you've got no other option.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you actually doing this because you want to or because you don't know what you want to do and so there was a real like tussle in my brain and actually I think six months into my canoeing career I had a complete I use the word breakdown and I I don't mean it that dramatically but I was struggling I think I as soon as I got canoeing and I came here I was right okay this is my next challenge.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm used to throwing myself in at the deep end and I'm going to go go go go go and I'd not taken any time to process a the loss of the identity that I'd had as a swimmer for my entire life and a sport that I'd loved for so long and having a really horrible relationship with it at that point I hadn't processed any of that.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just blocked it out and gone right I don't want to deal with that.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to help me and then six months down the line I had this huge sort of everything crashed together going what are you doing?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what you're doing with your life this is ridiculous.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like why are you trying to do this?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to reach out for help to help me navigate all of those complicated feelings that I hadn't allowed myself to feel at the time of that transition.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: How did you know to reach out for help?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it got to the point where I just felt so confused with everything that I was doing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing was bringing me happiness.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing was bringing me joy or I couldn't see the positive opportunity that I'd been given.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: The only way I was thinking about it was negatively.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think other people then started to notice that I was just not in a great place.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so again I'm so grateful for a support system that I have that they kind of said I think you probably need to go and talk to somebody about how you're feeling and I wasn't the only one.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: There were a few of us from swimming that had left at the same time who'd gone into different sports and different worlds and we all kind of helped each other through that.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of encouraged each other really to go and talk about what we were feeling.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's difficult in sport because you you kind of always feel like we've been given this beautifully privileged life.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: We get to do sport for a living.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's the dream right for a lot of kids you know being able to do sport for a living is the ultimate.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so it often feels like if something goes wrong or you're struggling with something, well actually what have you got to complain about because you get to do sport for a living.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't but I think it's really important to be able to acknowledge when even you know the most beautiful life can create this real sense of anxiety and lack of purpose.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to be able to recognise that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well I guess the purpose of this conversation is as much to let those listening or watching know it's okay to feel that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what I also think is quite amazing about your story is when that happened and what actually came after what is still coming after.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what followed for you is I guess typically when I taught second wind it's that life after sport.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: For you it's that it was the next the next sport but I get a sense you did it you're doing it differently to you did as a swimmer.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that experience has changed.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to a bit about that?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: How is your experience now in the as a power canoeist?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: How's that different?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think I came into the second sport very aware that I'd sort of been through one retirement and had this sort of panic of God I don't know what I'm going to do now.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought well I don't want to feel like that when I eventually come out canoe what whenever it is and at that point you know I could have tried it for a year and loved it and not been any good.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: It might not have led to a a long career that I've been fortunate enough to have in in canoeing.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought well I might only have a a bit of time to kind of collect myself and start to plan for whatever comes next.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the the tricky thing is with sport, the more successful you get then you kind of go, right, well to continue to be successful I've got to commit more time to this sport.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to take more commitment it's going to take more effort it's going to take less of doing other stuff to be more successful.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I've definitely fallen into that trap at various points and I've kind of turned things down that in my heart I wish I would have been able to do because it would have nurtured the external part of me.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have still done that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think particularly since I don't know maybe two years before Paris so 2022 I'd noticed that I'd started to do that thing that I was doing at swimming where everything else was being neglected for the sake of my sport and I thought I can't do this again.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was very honest with my coaches.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I said look if I'm getting an opportunity that is going to either nourish me personally or professionally and I think it is worth the time away from my sport to do it, I'm going to do it.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I will make sure my sport is done.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll find a gym to train at wherever I've gone I will make the training happen but I'm going to do this other thing.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's about being really intentional with how I spend my time.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so if it's important to me then I'm going to do it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And because actually if I turn things down that now I know will nourish my career post sport or it will nurture a relationship that I've neglected a friendship because I've not seen them for six months because I've been so busy but actually taking a day to go and see them is important, then I'm going to do it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if I turn those things down, I actually don't I'm not as good at training as I would have been had I gone and done the thing that actually was important.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to be present and here.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of things did you do?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel would nourish you personally, you know, as a holistic person?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you know it's a really recent example of that is when you've been involved in full-time sport for as long as I have, the opportunity to do consistent work experience is really really tough.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have time to go and give a chunk of Thai to being somewhere that's not our sport.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was really fortunate that I was offered an opportunity to do a virtual internship.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it was 12 weeks online everything was virtual.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was very flexible but my supervisor was in Malaysia and so it was a time difference we had to um kind of combat.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: She was seven hours ahead of me and so that meant that when she was working it was early for me and I had to make that work around my sport.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when the opportunity came it was coming into the busiest part of our year it was our racing season.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Getting up early and out of my routine when it's the most important part of my year I wanted to do it in winter when I all we do is train and it's very monotonous.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I thought actually you know what is silly of me to turn this opportunity down.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to make it work.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did this internship and I was getting up early on my days off which normally I wouldn't do and I was coming in and doing three hours of work in between my training sessions.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And actually what it gave me was this real sense of purpose outside of my sport.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It freed my brain up from obsessing over the minutiae of canoeing for three hours.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so actually to log online and do something completely different do some you know designs and do actual work that's nothing to do with sport actually probably made me a better athlete for those six months that I was doing it because when I was in the boat or I was in the gym I was present and I wasn't sick of what I was doing.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that is interesting.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: To what extent did it negatively impact your profession I don't it didn't it didn't and I had thought it would and I built on this thing oh I'm so tired and I I'm not going to be as focused and actually it was completely the opposite.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes I had to be more careful about my planning.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had to make sure that I'd done stuff that I needed to do and but it didn't affect it negatively at all.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually probably made me as good if not better because I was less sort of bogged down by the pressure of just having the sport there were other things that were important to me at that time and that's so important to remember.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So outside of the sport you speak about you know nourishing you and still competing you are you know successful at the at the top of the sport.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what's different now?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: What's your other career that starts to emerge to give you perhaps a better perspective of what life will be like when you really do have to retire from you know Yeah.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I still think I'm very much sort of finding my way even now but I think allowing myself the opportunity to find my way I've set up my own business which is kind of predominantly for public speaking for advocacy work um which when I retire from sport can can grow into something that's something I can continue to nurture when I finished sport.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I also have greater experience within sport that then leads to meeting all sorts of different people.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have discovered jobs within the sports sphere over the last couple of years that I didn't even know existed.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And jobs that are really quite exciting I can see myself doing.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think just having the opportunity to be in the room with people and learn about what they do in the world that I love.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I never want to leave sport.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it too much.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But there are so many different ways to be involved and I think that I'm starting to discover that there are so many ways that I can continue to be impactful when I hang up my paddle.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes from taking those opportunities to to go and speak at an event to go and listen to a conference on governance and sport.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not in there you can't possibly make those connections that are going to put put you in a better place come retirement and you'll have those people to to connect with and you know everybody that I've met with in sport is willing to help you just need to know who you're gonna who you need to go to.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah I mean what you're describing is brilliant.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're exploring and experimenting around you know you're in you are in the industry that you love.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're in the sporting world and I guess you've got this second attempt to make sure that you are but now you're aware of it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: You not you don't have this I don't know I'm putting words into your mouth but it's like you don't have this tunnel vision on right I'm swimming I'm following the black line and that's all I can see now you're in the sport but you're aware of what's around you and you've got the time to figure out dip your toe if you don't into having a little a little view in terms of well what's it like and you know would I enjoy it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: 100% and you know with hindsight I wish I'd done that earlier and I that's what I would stress to any young people or particularly young athletes is it's okay to explore and you should like is necessary and I wish I'd not wasted all that time when I was swimming sort of going home post in the pool.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I finished at 7 30 in the morning and I didn't go back till five and I just used to go home and watch box sets and just not do a great deal or just go and have you know and there's time and a place for that and you have to nurture your rest and recovery but also I could have been utilising that time slightly more productively even if it was just one day a week I wish I'd done that younger and whereas now that's something that I'm very aware that if I have the time and the mindset and the mind space to give to even if it's just sitting on LinkedIn for half an hour, 45 minutes and making those connections, doing some research, just giving a bit of time to that progression of that professional side is so important.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really is.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you talk about what's next for you, I'm getting a sense you said you're 39 maybe you're gonna, you know, when you think about the next career for you I'm assuming you that's going to be another sport and you're just gonna do that for another 15, 20 years.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely not I think when I finish canoeing I think I think I I know when to kind of I know when it's too much of a good thing and I I don't think I would potentially have as much success as I've had in this in this one.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: I got I got fortunate that I fell into a sport that I was a very good at and um I think as well the toll that being a full-time athlete takes your mind is the thing actually that would probably stop me from continuing.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you're in it you've got to be in it and you've got to love it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to love the gritty parts of it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the older I get the more I start to see the appeal of other things and how I can have an impact.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know I enjoy the other stuff just as much as I do the sport.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And yes I think that's allowed me to be a better athlete but at some point I know that there will be a time where I go actually you know what my impact can be so much more being on the other side of it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when that is I don't know at the moment touch wood.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am physically well and my mind is still very much in it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you know there's other things that I enjoy and I and I I want to explore those at some point.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably not going to be another 20 years that I'm sitting here talking to you and I'm on my fourth sport and my 12th Paralympics.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I'm not sure that's gonna be the case.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: No well but you know what what's been really interesting just that I'm taking away from this conversation is you've got a sense of bravery to give these things a go and I really like this difference that you've got between your first successful sporting career and your second even more successful sporting career and that mindset shift to me is it is a great lesson that you really have had a completely different mindset or that different mindset or openness to explore the sport and things and it just lets everyone else know actually it's it's okay.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know you you can do that and and still find success.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely and like you said I think that that sort of freedom of mind and that lack of tunnel vision I think there are times where you have to come in and really laser focus that has to be part of whatever whatever lane you're in whether it's sport whether it's you know whatever your world is of course there are going to be times where you have to make a sacrifice and go actually right now this is my priority but it's about being smart about finding the time when you can do other things and when it's good to do other things when actually that's the better decision to go and do something else.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it's something as small as it's not plowing yourself into the ground until you can't function anymore is it taking a step back and going actually I just need to have a break.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: I need to remove myself from this to make myself better in the long run and whatever that removal is whether it's a full break whether it's something different it's something to stimulate your brain in a different way I think that the key is to be able to identify when you need that and when is the right time to do it.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I've become better at is being okay with knowing I need to do something else.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of being okay with it giving yourself the admission to to get that sense and it's a Yeah that's a that's huge isn't it as a as a top class athlete just as an athlete striving to be your best because typically that's what you want to be as an athlete is be that best.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well maybe you can give just an an indication then when you what do you see in yourself that tells you oh I need to I need to just get a different perspective.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: I need a little bit of a break be that a little one or a long one what what do you see in yourself?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: One of my big telltale signs is I start to withdraw I take myself out and I get very quiet and I get sort of very caught up in my own head it's very easy for me to start overthinking things and at some point I kind of and it's a skill I I still work on is knowing when I need to just go this is enough that you need to pull back a bit and that's hard.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a work in progress um but for me it's I'm too much on my own thoughts.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm starting to drive myself around the bend overthinking the same thing and coming in just a negative spiral and that's when I know that I either need to pull back, I need to just go and do something else, I need to turn my brain off from sport and and nurture another part of me.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as probably is with everybody that sense of when everything starts to feel heavy and overwhelming and you don't want to leave to go somewhere or you think you know if I'm driving to training and I think I wish I could just drive anywhere else but where I'm going right now that's the point where you go, okay, well maybe that's where you need to go you need to go and have a coffee.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: You need to go and talk to a friend you need to go and nurture a business conversation it's it's that self-introspection for me of knowing that telltale sign of you're starting to get very drawn in and that's when I need to reset.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing that I think that you know it's so interesting to hear that you know in the the psyche of an athlete and what we continue to learn about ourselves and in this instance knowing when to maybe say no or time to take a break.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well look Charlotte um I want to say thanks for coming and just sharing it bringing you a bit of perspective on I guess finding clarity in in our career and and you know bringing it from the angle of of yourself.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's been you know super fascinating for me to listen and hopefully everyone else but I'll be selfish.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed the chat so that's been that's been really good.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but look Charlotte people are gonna um want to follow your journey maybe even get in touch what's the best place uh to find you so um I am
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: on all social medias, um probably mostly on Instagram, which is at C Henshaw GB.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: All my socials are the same handle.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's an email link on there for you know people that want to maybe have more than just a DM or um a a more more deep conversation I guess something where I I visit or whatever.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So social media is the best way to find me.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, Charlotte thanks again for taking the time out today.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm gonna leave you, let you go and do your gym session.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: This has been great.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been one of those nice things where I nurture something else having a conversation has been lovely.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel ready and raring to go in the gym now.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for that.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: You are more than welcome thank you.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Second Win podcast.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step make sure you check out secondwin.io for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's all from me take it easy until next time