Latest / The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show / Why 88% of Hospitals Can’t Offer Clinical Trials | Heather Grey | E200

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Why 88% of Hospitals Can’t Offer Clinical Trials | Heather Grey | E200 · The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show

• 0:01
  [music]
• 0:10
  Hello and welcome back to the Advancing
• 0:12
  Healthcare Innovation Show. I am your
• 0:15
  host, Michael Stamatinos, and if you're
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  So I'm I'm always excited to talk to to
• 1:25
  guests. Um, but today I'm I'm I'm
• 1:27
  excited for a number of different
• 1:29
  reasons. Before I kind of dig into the
• 1:31
  opening intro, when I think about
• 1:33
  breakthroughs, I think about every
• 1:35
  single medical breakthrough that's
• 1:37
  happened
• 1:38
  begins with a with a clinical trial. And
• 1:41
  yet millions of people um participating
• 1:45
  in one has never really been an option.
• 1:49
  That's an access issue. you know, maybe
• 1:51
  it's distance, maybe it's time
• 1:54
  commitment, maybe it's the
• 1:55
  infrastructure, the science exists, the
• 1:58
  patience exists, but like the system
• 2:00
  connecting the two together, um it's a
• 2:04
  little fragmented. It's fractured
• 2:07
  uh for far too long. And today's guest
• 2:11
  believes that we've been we've actually
• 2:13
  been asking the wrong question. And
• 2:15
  instead of asking, you know, how do we
• 2:17
  get patients to the trial, she's asking,
• 2:21
  well, why can't the trial come to the
• 2:24
  patient? So, Heather Gray is the CEO of
• 2:28
  Elixir Trials, and she and her team are
• 2:32
  reimagining
• 2:34
  how clinical research is delivered. And
• 2:37
  essentially, they're kind of
• 2:38
  interconnecting health systems and
• 2:39
  communities to become, and I don't want
• 2:41
  to steal any of your thunder, but to
• 2:43
  become research ready. So expanding
• 2:45
  access to clinical trials using
• 2:48
  technology to kind of remove some of
• 2:51
  that friction and she'll dig into more
• 2:53
  of that that's honestly traditionally
• 2:55
  it's slowed a lot of things down. So
• 2:58
  before Elixir trials, um Heather's got
• 3:01
  an unbelievable CV. She's just
• 3:02
  ridiculous, but she spent more than 15
• 3:04
  years building and scaling uh clinical
• 3:07
  trials businesses and including uh
• 3:09
  helping build Tempest's uh time trial
• 3:12
  network. And she's led largecale, you
• 3:15
  know, partnerships across the
• 3:17
  pharmaceutical industry. And I think I
• 3:20
  think what I appreciate like a lot about
• 3:22
  Heather's approach is like she doesn't
• 3:24
  just innovate for the sake of
• 3:26
  innovating. I think it's making sure
• 3:28
  that where you live is no longer going
• 3:32
  to determine
• 3:33
  whether you have access to sort of
• 3:35
  tomorrow's breakthrough treatments. So
• 3:38
  today, selfishly, I I would like to talk
• 3:40
  about um you know, why the current
• 3:43
  clinical trial model is sort of the way
• 3:46
  it is, why it's overdue for change, what
• 3:49
  it takes to build a like across these
• 3:52
  networks, hospitals and sponsors and
• 3:54
  physicians, like there's a lot of moving
• 3:56
  pieces and um maybe even, you know, how
• 3:58
  can AI sort of remove a lot of that
• 4:01
  friction without really replacing uh
• 4:05
  human judgment because like the human
• 4:06
  factors is super important into all of
• 4:08
  this and maybe even peering into the
• 4:11
  future a little bit like what does the
• 4:12
  future of clinical research look like if
• 4:14
  we design this in a way that is based
• 4:17
  around people. So Heather, awesome to
• 4:21
  see you. Welcome to the show.
• 4:24
  >> Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. It's
• 4:26
  great to see you.
• 4:27
  >> Okay, before we get into healthcare, um
• 4:30
  I want to I want to dig into something
• 4:33
  because you're a pretty serious Lego
• 4:35
  builder. I am.
• 4:38
  >> What [laughter] What was the la What was
• 4:40
  the last set that you built?
• 4:42
  [gasps]
• 4:43
  >> So, I like to refurbish old sets. I like
• 4:46
  to take the um discontinued LEGO sets
• 4:50
  that nobody can find anymore. And I have
• 4:53
  a lot of these old instruction booklets
• 4:56
  in my basement from when my kids were
• 4:58
  little. and I take those and I find the
• 5:02
  pieces and I dig through my inventory
• 5:05
  and I order where I don't have them. And
• 5:07
  so the most recent one that I finished
• 5:10
  was uh a very very large um Star Wars
• 5:13
  Death Star. And
• 5:16
  um and it's it's an it's an amazing
• 5:19
  amazing kit. It has, you know, all the
• 5:21
  different rooms from the Death Star if
• 5:24
  you're a Star Wars fan, the trash
• 5:25
  compactor and the Emperor's Throne room
• 5:28
  and all the rest of it. And so, uh, I it
• 5:32
  took me a very long time. There were a
• 5:33
  lot of pieces that have been
• 5:35
  discontinued that I had to find, but
• 5:37
  it's complete and I am so excited about
• 5:40
  it. I don't know what my next one is,
• 5:41
  though. I'm taking a little break until
• 5:43
  I find
• 5:44
  >> just that. That one, that one was such a
• 5:47
  >> Yeah, that one was such a challenge, but
• 5:49
  such a feeling of accomplishment. I
• 5:50
  maybe just reing in the accomplishment
• 5:52
  for a bit.
• 5:53
  >> So So what is it about Lego that like
• 5:55
  keeps pulling you back? Like what is it?
• 5:58
  What does it do for you?
• 6:00
  >> Yeah. Um I find that when my mind is
• 6:05
  churning or when I am in a situation
• 6:08
  where I feel that paralysis that we all
• 6:11
  get especially as founders you get this
• 6:14
  moment of paralysis. I have so many
• 6:17
  things to do. I don't know what which
• 6:20
  one to do first or I actually need to do
• 6:23
  this but I don't even know how to start
• 6:25
  doing it. Um,
• 6:27
  >> yeah,
• 6:27
  >> taking a break and going to the Lego
• 6:30
  table and just turning everything off
• 6:33
  and focusing on building something that
• 6:37
  is silly and stupid and doesn't matter
• 6:39
  in the real world at all. Actually makes
• 6:42
  such a a difference to me in the real
• 6:45
  world because it unlocks my brain. It
• 6:47
  unlocks my ability and I will be in
• 6:51
  those moments where I am not thinking
• 6:53
  about work. I am just thinking about
• 6:54
  what I'm building and the Eureka moment
• 6:57
  comes and I can just sort of run back to
• 6:59
  the office and be like this is how we're
• 7:01
  going to do it and move fast with that.
• 7:05
  >> Like what kind of kid were you? Were you
• 7:07
  were you like always building things?
• 7:09
  Like were you always asking questions?
• 7:10
  Like were you always trying to solve
• 7:12
  problems? Like
• 7:13
  >> what's like the 10-year-old Heather
• 7:14
  like? You know I know there was only a
• 7:16
  very short time ago but what was like
• 7:17
  10-year-old Heather like? So, I think
• 7:20
  while other girls were playing with
• 7:22
  their Barbie townhouse and Barbie
• 7:24
  dreamhouse, I was building my Barbie
• 7:27
  townhouse and then taking it apart and
• 7:31
  figuring out how I could build it a
• 7:33
  different way than the instructions said
• 7:35
  to build it and then taking it apart
• 7:37
  again and messing all the pieces up and
• 7:40
  seeing if I could build it without the
• 7:42
  directions. Um, I don't know that a
• 7:45
  single Barbie ever went up and down the
• 7:47
  elevator in that townhouse, but it sure
• 7:48
  was built a bunch of times. [laughter]
• 7:53
  >> What about like people that influenced
• 7:55
  you? Like who had the biggest influence,
• 7:57
  you know, on you like growing up? Like
• 8:00
  tell me about them.
• 8:01
  >> My grandmother was by far my biggest
• 8:04
  influence growing up. uh in terms of my
• 8:07
  parents, of course, my parents as well.
• 8:09
  But um but my grandmother had this sort
• 8:14
  of uncanny ability to find things that
• 8:19
  she was very passionate about, focus on
• 8:22
  them, and do them very very well. And
• 8:24
  then once she was very, very good at
• 8:27
  something, a master at it, then she
• 8:30
  would continue to do it. she would move
• 8:32
  on to learning the next thing that she
• 8:34
  could become the master of.
• 8:36
  >> Um, and I remember they they built a
• 8:38
  house.
• 8:40
  >> Um, they had a small cottage on a lake.
• 8:42
  It was struck by lightning, burned to
• 8:43
  the ground, and they rebuilt the h the
• 8:46
  house into like their retirement home.
• 8:49
  >> And my grandmother did all of the
• 8:52
  designing on that. She was at that
• 8:54
  construction site every day. She lived
• 8:56
  in a trailer in the, you know, car park
• 8:59
  area while they were building. I'm sure
• 9:01
  the construction crew and contractors
• 9:03
  just loved that. But um but she was out
• 9:06
  there every day saying, you know, making
• 9:09
  changes or, you know, figuring out
• 9:11
  something that she wanted or even
• 9:13
  helping with, you know, oh, if you're
• 9:15
  going to put that there, I'm going to go
• 9:16
  over here and I'm going to build a table
• 9:19
  that will fit perfectly just in that one
• 9:21
  spot.
• 9:22
  >> Um and so,
• 9:24
  >> so she was like a visioner. She was a
• 9:26
  visioner. She Okay.
• 9:28
  What's something that she maybe she
• 9:29
  taught you that you still like she kind
• 9:32
  of shapes like how you lead today?
• 9:35
  >> Yeah, she gosh, I don't want to cry, but
• 9:38
  she was just um she was just this
• 9:41
  incredible woman who believed in people
• 9:44
  >> and the people that she loved, she saw
• 9:48
  like no ceiling to their potential.
• 9:50
  >> Yeah. And um I can just I I would spend
• 9:55
  the summers out at the lakehouse with
• 9:56
  her and she would sit out on the edge of
• 9:59
  the dock with me with our feet, you
• 10:00
  know, dangling in the water and she
• 10:02
  would just have these very deep deep
• 10:04
  deep discussions about don't ever let
• 10:07
  somebody tell you you can't. Nobody else
• 10:11
  knows what you can do and you always
• 10:15
  can. There's always a way to make
• 10:17
  [clears throat] it a you can. And I have
• 10:21
  carried that with me. Um, I actually
• 10:23
  have a picture of her and I on my desk
• 10:26
  right next to my computer. Uh, she is
• 10:28
  somebody that, you know, when I have
• 10:30
  those moments of like self-doubt, I can
• 10:33
  like look at this picture
• 10:34
  >> and remember those words. Nobody can
• 10:37
  tell you you can't. Um, they don't know
• 10:40
  what you can do.
• 10:41
  >> And so, uh, that's my biggest takeaway
• 10:44
  from I mean not biggest, there's a
• 10:46
  million things that she
• 10:47
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:48
  >> But but Incredible to have that.
• 10:51
  >> Yeah.
• 10:51
  >> To have that in your life, right? To be
• 10:53
  able to consistently go back. When I
• 10:54
  think of some of those memories, that's
• 10:56
  like a well.
• 10:57
  >> It's a well that never dries up. Some
• 10:59
  days you're thirsty and you need more of
• 11:01
  it and you go back to it and you're
• 11:03
  like, I need a little bit more of this
• 11:04
  today cuz kind of kind of thirsty. When
• 11:08
  uh when you think about healthcare, just
• 11:09
  sort of switching gears is like when did
• 11:11
  it kind of stop being just an industry
• 11:13
  and kind of became very personal for
• 11:16
  you?
• 11:17
  So, I have a sort of weird history
• 11:21
  career-wise. I started out as a
• 11:23
  kindergarten teacher. Um, and
• 11:28
  kind of
• 11:28
  >> because everything you learned, you
• 11:30
  learned in kindergarten. Everything you
• 11:31
  need learn
• 11:33
  I guess maybe the theory is if you can
• 11:35
  teach that, right? If you could teach
• 11:37
  others everything you learn in
• 11:38
  kindergarten, Yeah.
• 11:40
  >> then you're really the master of
• 11:41
  everything you need to know you learn in
• 11:43
  kindergarten.
• 11:44
  >> Um, and I was a single mom. I was a
• 11:47
  young mom and my
• 11:50
  I just didn't feel like fulfilled. I
• 11:53
  kind of had this I' I've always had this
• 11:56
  like voice in my head that
• 12:00
  >> pops up when it's time for me to grow
• 12:03
  and I get this very uncomfortable
• 12:05
  feeling. I get this like almost physical
• 12:08
  uncomfortableness of you're constrained.
• 12:12
  This isn't where you belong. Something
• 12:14
  else needs to happen. And it's very
• 12:16
  scary when that starts because I have no
• 12:18
  idea what that means. But I always have
• 12:22
  faith in that voice. And so I knew um
• 12:26
  that something was going to change. I
• 12:28
  actually went back to college. Um, I was
• 12:31
  working as um a server at a restaurant
• 12:35
  and uh late at night I was um working at
• 12:39
  a hospital as um a a unit secretary on a
• 12:43
  surgical unit and I was single mom and I
• 12:46
  was going to school full-time for my
• 12:48
  premed degree and I did plan to go to
• 12:50
  medical school and um I I made that
• 12:55
  decision because since I was a child,
• 12:59
  healthc care was where I wanted to be. I
• 13:01
  knew that I knew that I I used to always
• 13:04
  say, I just want to make a difference. I
• 13:07
  just want to make a difference. And
• 13:08
  >> you know, I I knew there was like
• 13:10
  something kind of cheesy to that because
• 13:12
  that's what everybody says, like I want
• 13:13
  to make a difference in life. But there
• 13:15
  was something deeper in it for me of I I
• 13:19
  knew healthcare was where I belonged and
• 13:21
  where I would make an impact. And so I
• 13:24
  thought that was to be a doctor. that
• 13:26
  kind of in my early 20s, you know, after
• 13:29
  I finished one degree was like, okay,
• 13:32
  well, I, you know, that just means go be
• 13:34
  a doctor. Um and at the end of my
• 13:38
  undergrad, um I was I was planning to go
• 13:42
  to med school the next year and made a
• 13:46
  life decision that um I needed to not I
• 13:49
  I my daughter had given up a lot for me
• 13:51
  to be in school and I needed to be a mom
• 13:55
  at the same time and going to med school
• 13:57
  was just going to be very difficult with
• 13:59
  with a child. Yeah.
• 14:00
  >> So, I pivoted um and I I went into sales
• 14:06
  and you know in pharmaceutical sales and
• 14:08
  and it was a great learning experience
• 14:10
  from a commercial standpoint. I knew I
• 14:13
  had the uncomfortable feeling the second
• 14:14
  I went into it. But it was it I for many
• 14:18
  years I did a lot of really great work
• 14:20
  in that area and then um again the
• 14:23
  uncomfortable feeling became so
• 14:25
  uncomfortable that I couldn't it and um
• 14:28
  I'm I started moving into other areas um
• 14:32
  in clinical trials and so
• 14:35
  >> yeah it it's healthcare's always been in
• 14:37
  my blood. I can't give you like a this
• 14:39
  is the pivotal moment. Yeah.
• 14:41
  >> Yeah. It's sort of like a steady drip.
• 14:43
  It's like a a very clear kind of pattern
• 14:45
  that emerges and usually you see that
• 14:47
  you can understand that pattern when you
• 14:49
  look back. You're not necessarily seeing
• 14:50
  it when you're going through it.
• 14:52
  >> Wow.
• 14:52
  >> You know, you I' I've always found, not
• 14:54
  always, but I'd say for the most part I
• 14:56
  found that founders, they don't start
• 14:58
  companies because they love
• 14:59
  entrepreneurship. They they start them
• 15:01
  because they just can't ignore a problem
• 15:04
  anymore. Was that was that true for you?
• 15:07
  >> That's absolutely the case. Um I've I've
• 15:11
  worked at several companies in the
• 15:13
  clinical trials, you know, area of
• 15:16
  >> both real world data and clinical
• 15:18
  trials. And um there just sort of for me
• 15:21
  became this
• 15:24
  I guess
• 15:26
  um aha moment of
• 15:30
  there are so many people today that if
• 15:33
  you look at mental health or you look at
• 15:36
  oncology or any other therapeutic area,
• 15:40
  they are only given access to what is on
• 15:43
  the market today. And the most
• 15:47
  innovative options are still in the
• 15:49
  research phase. And only 12% of
• 15:52
  hospitals in the US can run research. So
• 15:56
  88% of our
• 15:57
  >> only 12 only 12%.
• 15:59
  >> Yes. 12% 88% of our hospitals are unable
• 16:03
  to to provide clinical trial options to
• 16:06
  their patients.
• 16:08
  >> But like the 12% are they of a certain
• 16:11
  type of hospital? Are they an academic
• 16:13
  medical center? like do they have a
• 16:14
  certain I guess look and feel to them?
• 16:18
  >> Yes. So these are academic medical
• 16:20
  centers. We there there are a lot of
• 16:22
  community centers that are participating
• 16:23
  in research today. Okay.
• 16:25
  >> They tend to be um larger community
• 16:28
  centers in more populated areas. Um one
• 16:33
  you know one consideration for pharma is
• 16:36
  activating a site where there are a
• 16:38
  small number of potential patients
• 16:39
  there. There's just not an ROI on that.
• 16:41
  you know, there's a lot of costs that go
• 16:44
  into setting up a site. Um, and if
• 16:46
  you're only getting a few patients for
• 16:48
  your trial, um, that may not be the most
• 16:51
  ideal location. And so,
• 16:55
  I think I found a way to fix that.
• 16:58
  >> You know, when you first shared like how
• 17:01
  you came to, you know, deciding to build
• 17:04
  Elixir, I I literally got chills and I
• 17:08
  um I don't know. Would you mind sharing
• 17:10
  that story again? It was like it's was
• 17:11
  pretty freaking amazing. So, can can you
• 17:13
  do that?
• 17:14
  >> I I would love to. Um this this story is
• 17:18
  I mean canon for Elixir Trials. It is
• 17:22
  like for me this is the um this is the
• 17:26
  starting moment of everything that I've
• 17:29
  built uh so far. So um I was at dinner
• 17:32
  with a safety net hospital. And for
• 17:34
  those who don't know what a safety net
• 17:36
  hospital is, a safety net hospital is
• 17:38
  required to take all patients regardless
• 17:40
  of insurance um or lack of insurance or
• 17:43
  ability to pay. They receive government
• 17:45
  funding, but these hospitals are often
• 17:48
  severely underfunded and have a lot of
• 17:51
  difficulty maintaining day-to-day
• 17:53
  operations from a funding perspective.
• 17:56
  So um the folks that I was meeting with
• 18:00
  were um in the seauite of the hospital
• 18:03
  and an hour late to dinner. Um and they
• 18:07
  were late because they were on the phone
• 18:09
  with insurance companies to uh get
• 18:11
  advanced payments on insurance you know
• 18:14
  payments so that they could make their
• 18:15
  nursing payroll for the week. And um
• 18:20
  there was that was like a bit shocking
• 18:22
  to me like I didn't realize that that
• 18:24
  these hospitals were running on you know
• 18:26
  balance sheets that were that tight.
• 18:29
  [snorts]
• 18:30
  >> And so we started talking and we were
• 18:33
  >> sometimes Dave's cash on hand is like in
• 18:34
  single digits.
• 18:36
  >> Exactly. I I I had no idea that that was
• 18:39
  the case. Um, we started talking about
• 18:42
  clinical trials because that's what I do
• 18:45
  and and where I where I work in and um
• 18:48
  and that was at another when I worked
• 18:50
  for another company and they said we
• 18:54
  would love to participate in clinical
• 18:56
  trials. Our patients deserve access to
• 18:58
  clinical trials. Our hospital would love
• 19:01
  to be known as a clinical research site.
• 19:03
  Um, but we have no financial ability to
• 19:06
  stand up any of the infrastructure that
• 19:10
  it would be required to run research.
• 19:12
  Um, and we don't exactly know how. We
• 19:16
  have people that know parts of it, but
• 19:17
  we don't we don't have like somebody on
• 19:20
  site that's fully fully understands how
• 19:22
  to set this up.
• 19:24
  >> Yeah. And I had this like light bulb
• 19:26
  moment of all the things that I've built
• 19:28
  over the years and how if you really put
• 19:31
  them all together, this was the solution
• 19:35
  possibly to bringing clinical trials to
• 19:39
  hospitals that are in the similar
• 19:40
  situation. And so I asked the question,
• 19:43
  what if somebody could bring clinical
• 19:45
  trials to your hospital, charge you
• 19:48
  nothing, you would get it all for free.
• 19:50
  um they would stay, they would act as
• 19:53
  your clinical trial office, so to speak.
• 19:56
  They would bring all the staffing, all
• 19:57
  the technology, all the regulatory, all
• 20:00
  the contracting embed at your hospital
• 20:02
  within your operations. Um the staff
• 20:05
  would be this the clinical research
• 20:07
  coordinators and nurse navigators run
• 20:09
  the entire trial beginning to end for
• 20:12
  you and you would see 100% of the rate
• 20:16
  card revenue opening up a new revenue
• 20:18
  line of millions and millions of dollars
• 20:20
  for your hospital which is underfunded.
• 20:24
  And
• 20:26
  they were like that's amazing. Like that
• 20:28
  would be phenomenal but there's that
• 20:30
  nobody could do that. And I was like,
• 20:32
  just give me a little bit of time. So I
• 20:34
  went home that night and I whiteboarded
• 20:36
  till like 3 in the morning. Everything
• 20:39
  that I knew, everything that I had
• 20:40
  built, every person that I knew that
• 20:43
  could do certain aspects. And
• 20:45
  operationally, I came up with, you know,
• 20:48
  a way to do this that would really work.
• 20:51
  Um the problem remaining on the table
• 20:55
  was if you aren't charging the site, how
• 20:57
  do you pay for it?
• 20:59
  >> Right. Right. And so, um, kind of
• 21:01
  coincidentally at the time, a friend of
• 21:03
  mine who was at the time CEO of a large
• 21:06
  nonprofit in the research space, um, we
• 21:09
  were attending celebrity and other
• 21:12
  nonprofit foundation events, um, gallas,
• 21:15
  wearing fancy dresses, and going to big
• 21:18
  parties, and it was a ton of fun. Um,
• 21:21
  but I realized, wait a minute, like I
• 21:25
  have a I might have an avenue here. And
• 21:27
  so I started asking the question, what
• 21:29
  does each what does each foundation do
• 21:31
  with the money they raise,
• 21:33
  >> right?
• 21:33
  >> And the answer was that they give it to
• 21:35
  just to a larger nonprofit because they
• 21:37
  don't really know where to put the money
• 21:39
  to be impactful. Mhm.
• 21:41
  >> So we got meetings, we met with
• 21:44
  celebrities, we met with foundation
• 21:46
  family offices, we met with foundation
• 21:49
  managers and we started asking what if
• 21:53
  the money that you raised, you know,
• 21:54
  could go towards fixing a broken system
• 21:57
  and you were able to directly measure
• 22:00
  the impact that you have on bringing
• 22:02
  clinical trial access to all communities
• 22:05
  and that was very wellreceived.
• 22:08
  So, um, yeah, my friend is no longer CEO
• 22:12
  of the large nonprofit. Um, she did
• 22:14
  start a 501c3 completely separate from
• 22:17
  Elixir Trials,
• 22:19
  >> uh, with an a mission of expanding
• 22:21
  access to all communities, um, to
• 22:24
  research and we have partnered as her
• 22:28
  infrastructure vendor of choice to
• 22:30
  expand the mission of the 501c3. And so
• 22:33
  we are now able to um through
• 22:35
  philanthropy partnerships fund the
• 22:38
  buildout of underserved sites. Um
• 22:41
  >> yeah.
• 22:42
  >> Yeah. So that's that's the inception.
• 22:45
  >> That's amazing. Listen, it's it's it's
• 22:48
  easy to I guess it's easy to imagineer.
• 22:52
  Um but it's really hard to actually
• 22:55
  leave a successful career
• 22:58
  >> and to go and do it. That's that takes a
• 23:03
  lot of guts. Um,
• 23:06
  like who believed in you early
• 23:09
  about this? It's like I met you early
• 23:11
  on, but like someone probably believed
• 23:13
  you before you made that commitment. Who
• 23:15
  was that?
• 23:17
  >> Yeah. I mean, me first. I I Let's go
• 23:21
  back to my grandma, right? Like,
• 23:23
  >> yeah, that's what I was That's what I
• 23:25
  was hoping you were going to say.
• 23:26
  >> Yeah. I did have a lot of people saying
• 23:29
  you can't do this, this won't work,
• 23:32
  pharma will never, you know, buy into
• 23:34
  this concept. Um,
• 23:38
  and I still hear that today, but I just
• 23:43
  go back to sitting on the edge of the
• 23:45
  pier with our feet dangling in the
• 23:47
  water. And I go back to hearing, "Nobody
• 23:52
  can tell you you can't." And so,
• 23:56
  >> um, I believe I can and I do have a team
• 24:00
  that believes I can. I do have a family
• 24:03
  that believes I can. Um, and as this is
• 24:07
  growing,
• 24:09
  more and more people are believing I
• 24:12
  can. So,
• 24:13
  >> yeah, that's so cool. Let's uh let's
• 24:16
  switch gears for a minute. Like, let's
• 24:17
  let's pretend like I know nothing about
• 24:20
  clinical trials. like walk me through
• 24:23
  like how do they work today? Like where
• 24:25
  does like the patient experience
• 24:29
  begin to break down?
• 24:31
  >> Yeah. So today the way that clinical
• 24:33
  trials work and and I'm talking about
• 24:36
  sort of the classic clinical trial is
• 24:39
  that a clinical trial center an academic
• 24:42
  medical center or large community center
• 24:43
  that are running trials opens the trial
• 24:46
  in conjunction with pharma um and a CRO
• 24:50
  and recruits patients that filter
• 24:53
  through their health system to enroll in
• 24:56
  the clinical trials. Um the problem is
• 24:59
  that they only have access to their
• 25:02
  patients and even in uh partnering with
• 25:06
  community sort of sites that aren't
• 25:09
  running trials today. Patients don't
• 25:11
  want to leave their provider, their
• 25:14
  hospital, um the place that they know
• 25:16
  and trust for their care and drive
• 25:19
  further than they have to drive already
• 25:22
  um to participate in a clinical trial
• 25:25
  which has a lot of you know requirements
• 25:28
  in terms of extra time for patients for
• 25:30
  blood draws and scans and you know it is
• 25:33
  it is an addition an additional amount
• 25:35
  of appointments from what you would be
• 25:37
  doing if you were just on standard
• 25:40
  And so
• 25:42
  the way it really works today is that
• 25:45
  patients who are already within those
• 25:47
  hospitals are the patients that are
• 25:49
  enrolling in clinical trials. There has
• 25:52
  been a big push for decentralized
• 25:54
  clinical trials and that's an amazing
• 25:57
  amazing initiative where essentially
• 26:00
  everything is done um almost through
• 26:02
  like a virtual site. You know you send
• 26:04
  global phottomy to to to patients houses
• 26:06
  the nurses go and do the dosing.
• 26:09
  teleaalth appointments. The problem is
• 26:11
  is that that trial format does not work
• 26:14
  for every trial and so it's still
• 26:17
  limited in the number of patients that
• 26:19
  can participate. It it doesn't solve the
• 26:22
  access problem completely and fully
• 26:25
  giving patients what I believe every
• 26:28
  patient has a right to which is all of
• 26:30
  the options that are on the table.
• 26:33
  >> Um so it doesn't solve for that problem.
• 26:36
  So that's how clinical trials work today
• 26:38
  is a patient is is seen and and
• 26:40
  enrolled, but more than likely they're
• 26:42
  seen and enrolled by the patient or by
• 26:44
  the physician, sorry, they're already
• 26:45
  seeing.
• 26:46
  >> Wow. So, you know, the one of the things
• 26:50
  that I keep kind of going back to, you
• 26:51
  mentioned it earlier on is like your
• 26:54
  giftedness in building Legos.
• 26:57
  >> So, to me, Elixir in a sense is is like
• 27:01
  a Lego set. Um, are there are there
• 27:04
  pieces that most people don't like
• 27:07
  realize that have to fit together before
• 27:10
  like the picture on the box actually
• 27:13
  comes to life?
• 27:15
  >> Yeah. I mean, absolutely. That's
• 27:17
  absolutely the case, right? is um
• 27:22
  when you have hospitals that have been
• 27:24
  doing this for years and years and have
• 27:26
  had the infrastructure set up, there are
• 27:29
  little pieces that
• 27:31
  >> maybe no one remembers had to be set up,
• 27:33
  you know, however many years ago. And so
• 27:36
  >> so like which so then which pieces
• 27:38
  historically have been like the hardest
• 27:40
  to connect and like and why?
• 27:42
  >> Yeah. From a from a it's really about
• 27:44
  patient matching. It's the it's getting
• 27:46
  the patients on trial that patients on
• 27:50
  trial and patient adherence to the
• 27:52
  trial. Those are the biggest bottlenecks
• 27:55
  in clinical research today. Um
• 27:58
  a phase three that is delayed due to you
• 28:04
  know lack of enrollment is extremely
• 28:08
  costly. These are these are drugs that
• 28:10
  are almost ready to be launched into the
• 28:12
  market. they've been in trials for years
• 28:15
  and years
• 28:16
  >> and so um patient enrollment is the
• 28:20
  critical piece and then and then right
• 28:23
  next to that is patient adherence right
• 28:25
  keeping patients on the trials long term
• 28:28
  and the key to that is you have to serve
• 28:31
  the patients in the place where they
• 28:32
  live trials belong where patients live
• 28:35
  because otherwise
• 28:38
  >> I'm too tired I don't feel well I'm not
• 28:41
  going to drive three hours today to go
• 28:44
  to this appointment.
• 28:45
  >> Um or why does it matter if I do this
• 28:48
  blood draw? Like I I'm I'm just not
• 28:50
  going to going those are the kinds of
• 28:53
  things that kind of fall to the wayside
• 28:55
  as a patient who's undergoing especially
• 28:57
  extensive deep therapy. You know those
• 29:00
  things become secondary to what really
• 29:04
  matters to the patient which is how they
• 29:06
  feel that day.
• 29:08
  >> Yeah. So they have to bring the trials
• 29:10
  closer to home. And we have to make it
• 29:12
  so that when a patient is on a clinical
• 29:15
  trial, they're being seen by the
• 29:18
  physician that they know and trust.
• 29:21
  >> Yeah. Is there like a story because
• 29:24
  you've been in the game for a while uh
• 29:26
  in the clinical trial space. Is there
• 29:27
  like a story or a patient that you kind
• 29:29
  of go back to that kind of continues to
• 29:31
  remind you as to why this work matters?
• 29:34
  and just curious sort of tying it all
• 29:37
  together.
• 29:38
  >> Yeah, it's um I would say not one
• 29:41
  specific instance. I could give you a
• 29:44
  lot of examples of um
• 29:48
  >> situations and times, especially when I
• 29:51
  was at Tempest in the time trial program
• 29:54
  where we worked so hard to get patients
• 29:57
  on trials and we worked so hard to make
• 30:02
  sure that they had access where they
• 30:03
  belong, you know, where they lived and
• 30:05
  and where they um where they really
• 30:08
  could um not have to feel that like burn
• 30:12
  of the of the travel. So I don't think I
• 30:16
  have like a specific story that I would
• 30:18
  share in this instance. What I think I
• 30:20
  would say
• 30:21
  >> is it's it's more of the conversations
• 30:27
  with
• 30:28
  >> hospitals and physicians
• 30:31
  >> who see these patients.
• 30:33
  >> Yeah. who share this deep yearning to be
• 30:38
  able to provide that level of care to
• 30:40
  their patients.
• 30:42
  >> Yeah.
• 30:42
  >> Yeah. And it's it's the advancement of
• 30:46
  therapies that will save hundreds and
• 30:51
  thousands and millions of patients that
• 30:54
  are being delayed because we can't get
• 30:57
  clinical trials out
• 31:00
  >> to enough people to get these drugs
• 31:02
  through, you know, to the point of being
• 31:04
  uh out on the market. So, I would say
• 31:07
  that's that's more of how I've viewed
• 31:10
  this. There there are certainly um
• 31:13
  individual patient stories. I I'm always
• 31:16
  a little like skeptical to share just
• 31:18
  like a an individual's story. Um I don't
• 31:22
  know, maybe I have like some like, you
• 31:24
  know, HIPPA PTSD from my days at the
• 31:26
  hospital.
• 31:27
  >> It's a It's your episode. You can do
• 31:29
  what you want.
• 31:30
  >> I'm c I'm curious what like what's been
• 31:33
  harder? Has it been like building the
• 31:36
  technology or earning the trust to kind
• 31:40
  of get all these pieces to fit together?
• 31:42
  What's been hard?
• 31:43
  >> Those are those are two two both
• 31:45
  complicated
• 31:47
  but in different ways. I have an
• 31:49
  absolutely brilliant co-founder. Um he
• 31:53
  is the CTO and co-founder. He has a PhD
• 31:57
  in computational neuroscience. He was
• 32:00
  very early days at Wix and Gong. built
• 32:02
  the AI architecture there has been it
• 32:05
  for other startups he knows what he's
• 32:06
  doing in this space [clears throat]
• 32:09
  >> and
• 32:11
  he has built something that
• 32:15
  um I I I I don't even can't even begin
• 32:19
  to tell you how like just awe inspiring
• 32:22
  it is um he along with with our head of
• 32:25
  engineering have built something that
• 32:27
  will truly create efficiencies for
• 32:30
  research that have never been possible
• 32:32
  before. But the other part of it, the
• 32:35
  building trust part of it, you know,
• 32:38
  that's my arena. And so, um, I
• 32:43
  I think that
• 32:46
  it's not been particularly difficult to
• 32:49
  have these conversations with sites
• 32:52
  um, with potential patients even even
• 32:55
  with pharma who, you know, will be our
• 32:58
  customers down the road as we build. Um,
• 33:02
  I think it's
• 33:05
  there that there is a
• 33:08
  an apprehension of how do you do this
• 33:11
  >> and once we lay out exactly how we do
• 33:14
  it,
• 33:15
  >> um,
• 33:17
  that apprehension starts to melt away.
• 33:20
  But
• 33:22
  what I hope is happening
• 33:25
  is that my commitment to this build, my
• 33:29
  passion for this build, my belief that
• 33:32
  we truly can bring research to all
• 33:37
  patients
• 33:38
  >> um is felt by these hospitals and health
• 33:42
  systems and it allows them to feel that,
• 33:47
  you know, hey, let's take a chance on
• 33:49
  this because, you know, she's really in
• 33:53
  it. Um, this isn't entrepreneurship for
• 33:56
  the sake of entrepreneurship. I'm not
• 33:59
  building this because I want to be a
• 34:00
  founder. I'm not building this because I
• 34:02
  want to be a CEO and I'm not building
• 34:04
  this because I want to be an
• 34:06
  entrepreneur, so to speak. I'm building
• 34:07
  this because I believe it's necessary
• 34:10
  and I know I can do it.
• 34:14
  >> Yeah, that passion and conviction is
• 34:15
  definitely an edge. it it carries early
• 34:18
  on in the beginning and obviously and
• 34:20
  then as you start to get successes and
• 34:22
  and proof points and more proof points
• 34:24
  and more proof points then it just
• 34:26
  becomes this this flywheel that
• 34:27
  continues to move along.
• 34:29
  >> Curious because you know this you're an
• 34:31
  executive prior but like now you're in
• 34:34
  the CEO seat. Has your has the way that
• 34:37
  you've approached leadership or the way
• 34:39
  you define leadership has it changed
• 34:40
  since you've become a CEO?
• 34:43
  >> Yeah, we're still a small team. Um, and
• 34:47
  we're uh about to grow here very quickly
• 34:50
  soon. And
• 34:53
  culture, company culture has always been
• 34:56
  very important to me. Um, and in the
• 35:00
  past, I had the ability to build a
• 35:03
  culture for my team. I had the ability
• 35:06
  to um build a culture for what I was
• 35:10
  doing within somebody else's
• 35:12
  organization.
• 35:14
  >> Yeah. And I do not take it lightly that
• 35:18
  the culture of Elixir trials for our
• 35:22
  employees rests on my shoulders. And
• 35:27
  this is
• 35:30
  something that I I take just with the
• 35:33
  utmost seriousness because
• 35:36
  it is we've all been at places that
• 35:39
  don't feel great to work. We've all been
• 35:42
  at places where people don't matter.
• 35:44
  People aren't first. And we're building
• 35:47
  a business here for people. We're
• 35:49
  building a business here to make an
• 35:51
  impact on people. And if that doesn't
• 35:54
  start within our own organization,
• 35:57
  then we will never be successful long
• 35:59
  term. And so as moving from an executive
• 36:03
  within another organization to the CEO,
• 36:06
  um the leadership that I take on in
• 36:09
  making that culture, building that
• 36:12
  culture, maintaining that culture, that
• 36:14
  is now fully my responsibility.
• 36:18
  And um I'm actually really excited about
• 36:21
  that because one of the things I've
• 36:24
  always loved doing as a leader is
• 36:27
  creating
• 36:28
  these like safe places for people to
• 36:31
  work. And so I'm excited. I'm excited to
• 36:34
  be able to build that on my own.
• 36:37
  It's cool because like you get to
• 36:38
  actually do what your grandmother did
• 36:41
  for you,
• 36:42
  >> which is to look at someone that doesn't
• 36:44
  always necessarily see that themselves
• 36:46
  in that role and that capability and you
• 36:48
  can say you basically you pull it out
• 36:49
  and you're like, "Look, this is what I
• 36:51
  see." No, you have it in you. Go and do
• 36:56
  it. It's cool to be able to build
• 36:57
  environments like that where people can
• 36:59
  thrive.
• 36:59
  >> It's really nice. That's probably one of
• 37:01
  the more
• 37:02
  >> rewarding things of leadership.
• 37:03
  Obviously, there's a lot of hard things
• 37:04
  about leadership, but that's one of
• 37:06
  probably one of the more rewarding
• 37:07
  things about leadership. Before I
• 37:09
  forget, um because I mentioned sort of
• 37:10
  AI and kind of the prelude, everyone's
• 37:13
  talking about AI. Where do you think
• 37:15
  where do you think it's generally going
• 37:16
  to make a difference in your space and
• 37:19
  what you're doing?
• 37:20
  >> So, the
• 37:23
  the important there there are some
• 37:25
  really important factors here, not just
• 37:27
  for the success of elixir trials, but
• 37:29
  for the success of clinical trials
• 37:31
  moving forward. And that is automating
• 37:33
  as much as we can on back office
• 37:35
  workflows. Um not manually looking
• 37:40
  through patient records to match
• 37:42
  patients to charts. Right? That's that
• 37:44
  that sort of patient matching capability
• 37:46
  is something that's previously been
• 37:48
  built and has been run by several
• 37:50
  companies very successfully. But we're
• 37:53
  taking that a step further and we're
• 37:55
  automating all of the back office
• 37:57
  workflows. And because we install a sort
• 37:59
  of the pseudo clinical trial office at
• 38:02
  these sites, we uh it's our staff doing
• 38:06
  all of the work for the clinical trial.
• 38:08
  We're then able to automate every piece
• 38:11
  of the back office workflows, freeing up
• 38:13
  the staff to spend more time with
• 38:15
  patients. Um that's that's I think the
• 38:18
  the future of clinical trials is not
• 38:21
  using AI to replace people. It's using
• 38:26
  AI to allow people to spend time with
• 38:30
  people and to make sure that patients
• 38:34
  are comfortable and make sure that they
• 38:36
  understand what they need to understand.
• 38:38
  And and then the the second part to this
• 38:41
  is that a big reason why pharma has not
• 38:44
  been able to use small community sites
• 38:46
  in the past as I mentioned earlier to um
• 38:49
  is that there's there's just a rough
• 38:51
  it's it's rough to stand up one site.
• 38:54
  Yeah. for three or four patients. But
• 38:57
  what Elixir Trials is building is a
• 38:59
  network so that pharma can have, you
• 39:02
  know, 10, 15, 20 community sites that
• 39:06
  look like one site and they contract
• 39:08
  once. They don't have to contract
• 39:10
  individually with every single site.
• 39:12
  They contract once through Elixir
• 39:14
  trials. They access the entire network.
• 39:18
  Um, we do all of all of that legal and
• 39:22
  contracting work to make sure that that
• 39:24
  works out for pharma so that there's
• 39:27
  they're not having to constantly redo
• 39:30
  the contracts over and over and over
• 39:32
  again to access three or four patients,
• 39:34
  but rather they're
• 39:36
  doing one contract to access a hundred
• 39:39
  patients or 200 patients or 300 patients
• 39:43
  across our network. And for pharma,
• 39:46
  that's really an important nuance
• 39:48
  because
• 39:50
  it does open up that ability to use the
• 39:53
  smaller sites that have access to the
• 39:55
  patients they've never been able to
• 39:57
  access before without adding burden and
• 40:00
  complications to the pharma exacts and
• 40:03
  the pharma clinical operations team.
• 40:05
  So if you're let's just say you know
• 40:09
  someone who's a community site they're
• 40:12
  watching today and you have the
• 40:14
  opportunity to speak to them what's like
• 40:16
  the one thing you hope that they begin
• 40:20
  to think
• 40:22
  differently you know when they go to
• 40:25
  wake up tomorrow and go do their stuff
• 40:29
  >> that there is an option out there for
• 40:32
  their site to participate in clinical
• 40:34
  trials.
• 40:35
  without all of the burden overhead that
• 40:38
  has, you know, standardly been a part of
• 40:40
  participation.
• 40:42
  And it doesn't matter how big or small
• 40:44
  they are. You're joining a network of
• 40:47
  sites that leaves you independent. You
• 40:50
  remain your own site. You remain an
• 40:52
  independent facility, but you now
• 40:56
  actually have access to the trials that
• 40:58
  pharma offers
• 41:00
  >> without having to do all that work
• 41:02
  yourself. and and we provide other
• 41:04
  services as well like community
• 41:06
  outreach, community events, you know,
• 41:08
  patient engagement materials and and
• 41:10
  activities, um trust building in the
• 41:14
  community and we would love to work with
• 41:17
  you. We would love to work with your
• 41:18
  community and give all of your patients
• 41:22
  access to the innovative treatments in
• 41:24
  clinical trials today.
• 41:26
  >> Before I forget, like give a little
• 41:28
  commercial. Where can people go to
• 41:29
  follow your work? um to kind of keep
• 41:32
  tabs on the story and then we'll kind of
• 41:35
  close out with a little fun fun little
• 41:37
  game.
• 41:37
  >> Yeah. So um elixirrials.com is our
• 41:40
  website. Um I'm on LinkedIn, Heather Gay
• 41:44
  Gr.
• 41:46
  And um there
• 41:50
  we're gonna have to cut this out, but
• 41:51
  there will very soon be a LinkedIn page.
• 41:54
  Um we're launching we'll be launching
• 41:56
  soon. There will be a LinkedIn page. Um,
• 41:59
  so I'll just say you can also go to the
• 42:00
  Elixir Trials LinkedIn page.
• 42:03
  >> Okay, got it.
• 42:04
  >> All right, so Elixir Trials, elixir.com.
• 42:09
  >> Yes.
• 42:10
  >> Cool. All right. Um,
• 42:13
  I want to do a little lightning round.
• 42:16
  >> Okay.
• 42:17
  >> All right. So, I'm going to say a
• 42:18
  sentence and I just want you to like
• 42:20
  blurt it out. So, what's
• 42:24
  a book that you've recommended more than
• 42:26
  any other book?
• 42:28
  A Little Life.
• 42:30
  >> I've never I've never never read that to
• 42:33
  do that.
• 42:33
  >> It's gonna It's gonna tear you apart,
• 42:35
  but it's beautiful.
• 42:38
  >> Okay. Um
• 42:40
  guess what brings you joy outside of
• 42:42
  work right now?
• 42:44
  >> Reading
• 42:46
  and Legos. You know, I already said that
• 42:48
  one.
• 42:48
  >> We already said Legos. I was gonna say
• 42:50
  can't say Legos, though. Okay.
• 42:51
  >> And all my kids are away. All my kids
• 42:53
  are away at school, but um you know,
• 42:56
  visiting them, of course.
• 42:58
  >> Awesome. And uh I guess maybe what's
• 43:01
  what's one question that you wish people
• 43:03
  asked you more often?
• 43:06
  >> That's a great one. Um I I wish people
• 43:10
  ask me my why. My why I'm doing this. um
• 43:15
  >> that I think would I think people assume
• 43:18
  when you come in as a as a founder and
• 43:20
  you have a startup that you're just
• 43:21
  there to sell and
• 43:24
  I think getting into the why I'm doing
• 43:26
  this um matters so they don't need to
• 43:30
  ask I'm going to tell them anyway but I
• 43:32
  love it
• 43:32
  >> I was going to say you're you're telling
• 43:34
  them anyway it's like you're going to
• 43:35
  tell them you know because that is your
• 43:37
  mission
• 43:38
  >> and vision and purpose and sometimes
• 43:41
  that
• 43:41
  >> gets people to learn more is Great,
• 43:44
  Heather. This has been awesome. Um, I
• 43:47
  think one of the things that there's
• 43:48
  been so many things that you've said
• 43:49
  that have been really good golden
• 43:50
  nuggets, but I think your love of Lego,
• 43:54
  you know, most people can look at it as
• 43:55
  like, hey, this is like a super fun
• 43:57
  hobby. I think more than anything, um,
• 44:00
  it's like a window into how you sort of
• 44:02
  view the world. I think you see
• 44:06
  possibilities. Maybe other people just
• 44:08
  sort of see these pieces and you see
• 44:10
  like what you can build because you get
• 44:11
  a Lego set and it's like oh I can build
• 44:13
  this picture on this box and you're like
• 44:15
  no no no there's like so many other fun
• 44:18
  possibilities that that we can build.
• 44:20
  >> Yes.
• 44:20
  >> And I think whether it's like you know
• 44:23
  researchers and health systems and
• 44:25
  physicians and sponsors and all these
• 44:27
  different pieces of the Lego kit you've
• 44:30
  you've dedicated your career now like
• 44:33
  bringing all those pieces together. Uh,
• 44:35
  and I think it's it's now being done in
• 44:37
  a way that is elevating, you know,
• 44:42
  potentially humanity, which is like
• 44:43
  super cool because you're doing it in
• 44:45
  places that don't necessarily get that
• 44:49
  level of access. And I think that's the
• 44:51
  why that makes it more important. At
• 44:52
  least for me, it makes it very
• 44:53
  captivating and that's the type of work
• 44:55
  that it doesn't always necessarily get
• 44:57
  the headlines.
• 44:58
  >> Um, however, like it does change lives.
• 45:01
  So, thank you for sharing like your
• 45:03
  story today and for being honest and um
• 45:06
  yeah, I think it's a wonderful
• 45:07
  perspective. So, for those that have
• 45:09
  tuned in, if you're tuning in and you're
• 45:12
  still listening, you're still watching
• 45:14
  and if you found this conversation to be
• 45:17
  meaningful for you, please share it.
• 45:20
  That's what would be helpful. Share it.
• 45:21
  If you don't mind, share it. And if
• 45:23
  there is a topic that you want us to
• 45:25
  explore or if there's a leader that you
• 45:28
  want to have come on to the show, drop
• 45:30
  us a note. let us know. We do read them.
• 45:32
  Uh we do go proactively look for great
• 45:34
  people to come on to the show. Just
• 45:35
  remember, this isn't a platform that's
• 45:37
  only about content. It's it's about
• 45:39
  interactive community. So, thank you so
• 45:42
  much for listening. Keep building with
• 45:44
  purpose and we'll see you next time in
• 45:46
  the Advancing Healthcare Innovation