Latest / In the Valley of Giants / The Soldier in the Devil's Playground | Baruch Baitch | ITVOG Ep. 29

Transcript

The Soldier in the Devil's Playground | Baruch Baitch | ITVOG Ep. 29 · In the Valley of Giants

0:00
You wanted to, you wanted to destroy evil, and that was the
0:01
quickest way to do it. Yes.
0:03
OK. OK.
0:05
Did you did it feel fulfilling Pretty much right away?
0:08
No, because I remember one day I asked them, it's like, what
0:10
happened? What's this?
0:11
I was like, oh, how you who did? I was like, what happened?
0:14
And the guy laughed and was like, we got rid of them and I
0:17
punched him in the face. Really.
0:18
Yeah, How'd that feel? I.
0:20
Felt great and it was like hey babe, go check out you and Eli
0:23
go check out that because this guy was like known for booby
0:27
trapping everything and we we go up to this thing and the next
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thing I know I'm waking up on the side of the road and I
0:33
didn't have a scratch on me do. Something crazy?
0:36
Why was that the right thing? Why can't you make them hurt?
0:39
Why can't I? Yeah, why shouldn't you?
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There's, there's legal ramifications #1 #2.
0:47
Let's forget the legality. It's just normal, like you can
0:49
go and just like gun down a half a neighborhood.
0:53
That. Gets caught in the crossfire and
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the other kids like walking across the street stepping over
0:57
the dead body. Why?
0:58
Because that's their norm. War is hell, but I don't know
1:07
what that means, and you probably don't know what that
1:09
means. The only way to really know what
1:11
that really means is to be in the thick of it, to be on the
1:13
front lines, see hell, and crawl out.
1:17
Bark Beach is who I had on today.
1:20
He's a Sergeant first class and retired, and he saw tons of
1:22
combat from in the Devil's Playground, which will explain
1:25
what that means inside the episode.
1:27
He's seen it all. So we spoke today about his
1:30
experiences in close quarter combat, dogma from terrorism on
1:34
the other Side, how to combat PTSD and modern military
1:39
warfare. This is a very tough and deep
1:41
episode. We hope you enjoy Bark Beach.
1:45
Thank you so much for being here today.
1:46
Thank you for having me. It's an honor for both of us.
1:49
It's really honor. How about that?
1:51
So there's a very holy joke in my family, and I have to, I have
1:58
to bring it as a prelude because I can't ask my first question
2:00
without it. See, my father's a very wise and
2:04
some would say funny man. And one of the things he said to
2:09
my mother was as long as our kids have my brains and your
2:14
looks, they're going to be perfect.
2:17
Now you see, when I married, getting ready was getting ready
2:20
to marry. Why my wife?
2:21
I said as long as our kids have my brains and my looks, our kids
2:25
are going to be perfect. Now we of course say this
2:27
knowing that they're smarter and prettier than we are, but we
2:31
don't let them know that. But in preparation for that, I
2:34
told her that you were coming on the show, and she immediately
2:36
set out an amazing question, which I'm really excited to ask
2:40
you about, which is is that you're someone that has fought
2:46
for the US, which I thank you deep before you're starting
2:50
first class. Why the US Army and not the IDF?
2:55
So that is a question. But first they say my looks in
3:00
your brains with the I, but I married with the brains and the
3:03
look. But to answer the question,
3:10
there's a question. I, I dabble and ask myself a lot
3:13
when I was in yeshiva in Crown Heights, the, the peak of the
3:16
intifada, and there's a kid from Silver Spring was my best friend
3:22
and she even in Hillel Cobra, a Cobra family father just died
3:26
last year and they went to Habad in Silver Spring and he had a
3:30
good friend in Kobe who was killed in Israel.
3:32
And it really affected Hillel. And I remember the pictures of
3:37
the hands of the Palestinian going out the window with the
3:39
red hands. And I said I have to do
3:41
something. I, I and it was Pesach and I'm
3:46
coming back from my Bubbins 80s house in Baltimore and I'm
3:49
hearing on the news of them pulling down Saddam statue.
3:53
And I remember as a kid in Dallas at Akiva, as a little kid
3:57
in preschool, I had a memory of like these Israeli kids coming
4:00
because of Saddam Hussein Scud missiles.
4:02
And I've always wanted to be a high all like in my track was to
4:05
go to the IDF. Like I was going to go join back
4:07
then. It was like Mahal 2000.
4:08
They had the Mahal 2000 program where you could dabble in the
4:11
waters. And if you really like the IDF,
4:12
you can do the full, full draft. And so I came back out of
4:18
yeshiva. I went back to Michigan where my
4:20
parents are living in Arbor, Michigan.
4:21
And we live near a place called Dearborn, and it had the highest
4:26
Arab population at the time outside of Paris and the Middle
4:29
East. Where your where your parents
4:30
from? Yes, I grew up modern Orthodox.
4:33
OK, where your parents? From my dad's from Baltimore, OK
4:37
married my wife, my, my, my, my, my mother in Baltimore.
4:40
He, they grew up conservative and my father in 1973 came on a,
4:47
a trip to Israel and became Baltashuba and and at a young
4:53
age and they became more and more religious as especially
4:57
after they had their first kid, me.
5:00
And so I was raised modern Orthodox.
5:03
And then slowly, slowly my father started going to Sahabad.
5:06
He's not Labava. She's still, you know, middle of
5:09
the road, dot T proud Zionist. And my brother went to yeshiva.
5:14
He's a he's a, he's a sofa and a rabbi and a lawyer.
5:17
He's at the trifecta. And I took the weird route and I
5:20
joined the army. But I was raised.
5:22
Anyways. We grew up in Michigan.
5:24
And this is kind of where it really set in stone.
5:27
I miss my brother's bar mitzvah because of 9/11.
5:30
I was at an Outward Bound summer camp and I was supposed to come
5:33
home because I've always been into the outdoors.
5:35
I was rough and tumble kid. They cancelled all the flights.
5:38
They. Cancelled all flights.
5:39
I missed my brothers, but I missed when I grew up fighting
5:41
because I was Jewish in in in Michigan because I had so many
5:45
Lebanese and Palestinian kids there and just.
5:46
So you felt so you felt that I. Grew up with anti-Semitism from
5:49
an early age. We'll talk about that for a
5:51
second for you answer this question.
5:52
Go ahead. Want to talk about the
5:53
anti-Semitism? Yeah, growing.
5:55
Up. Well, I mean, I could ask a.
5:56
Question like in Dallas where I were I first my first memories
5:59
as a as a as a human because I was born in Houston.
6:02
We moved to Dallas when my brother was born.
6:03
I was 2. The Akiva Academy of sample had
6:07
their windows shut out by Hammerskins.
6:09
White Hammerskin neo Nazi group would watch knit skinheads ring
6:13
Pitbull to the playground near shark fila the show that we went
6:18
to and chase Jews down the street and at an early age I saw
6:23
this. My bubby is a Holocaust survivor
6:26
on the kinder transport when I was very little.
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She had a lot of PTSD, so I remember hearing and seeing.
6:32
And then we moved to Michigan after Baltimore.
6:34
Baltimore's a little utopia, you know, and Pikesville.
6:38
And then we moved to Michigan, which is Arabs, and we were
6:40
living in a small Jewish community and University of
6:41
Michigan campus. Why'd your parents move?
6:43
There my dad finished his medical school, then an atomic
6:47
research, and he got a job at Sinai Hospital in Detroit.
6:49
My mom's a musician and she wanted to live with more an
6:52
artsy community. And so we picked Ann Arbor, MI
6:56
and also had a better public school system.
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You know, Jewish schools are expensive.
7:00
My dad was a researcher. He wasn't, you know, so we went
7:04
there and I just grew up like fighting.
7:07
I grew up defending myself because if we kept kosher, you
7:09
know, I was the only kid going from Pikesville to a small
7:12
public school that very, very small, like, Orthodox Minion was
7:15
in the basement of Hillel and running on the campus.
7:18
And they had a small kebab down the street which we found out
7:20
about later on. You get like beat up.
7:23
I did, you know, and I grew up fighting.
7:26
You know, Arabs used to come in from Dearborn and be Jews for
7:29
sport in Ann Arbor, MI and a lot, not a lot would happen
7:32
because it was a very leftist ideological.
7:35
And so we were the occupational Zionists and nothing was ever
7:39
done. So I grew up fighting and then I
7:41
went to yeshiva, and then I just always wanted to do something.
7:45
And then I wanted to fight. And so the war in Iraq happened
7:50
and I came back and I was just, I had a lot of anger.
7:53
And in hindsight, I should have been more patient and just done
7:57
the track to go to the IDF. You know I didn't speak very
8:00
good Hebrew living in a small. You said you said you got back
8:05
from. I got back from yeshiva cuz I
8:06
went back. Were you here in Israel to do
8:08
yeshiva? No, I was in Crown Heights, so.
8:09
When Crown Heights, OK, So then you came back from yeshiva and
8:11
then OK, Iraq, OK. And I came back and I was just
8:15
like, I was just in a bad place, A lot of anger and antsy.
8:20
I just wanted to get on with my life, you know, not a lot going
8:23
on. And so I just, like, the
8:24
quickest way was just to join the US Army.
8:26
And I said, I'm going to go fight them in their own
8:28
backyard. Why not?
8:28
I'll do three years, and then I'll go to Israel, OK.
8:32
And that didn't really happen. I did 20 years, you know, And I
8:37
don't regret it. But sometimes I see these
8:39
hailing here. And I was like, I wish I did,
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but the path that Hashem took me on, I wouldn't have the family I
8:44
have today in the life I have now if I would have done that,
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you know? And I've made my mistakes along
8:48
my path and it kind of made me who I am today.
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So that's kind of how I ended up in the US Army.
8:53
It was just kind of a knee jerk reaction to want to be a soldier
8:56
as fast as possible. I mean, you wanted to, you
8:58
wanted to destroy evil, and that was the quickest way to do it.
9:00
Yes. OK.
9:03
Did you did it feel fulfilling pretty much right away?
9:06
No, it didn't because my father when he went with me to the
9:10
recruiting office and they'll try to help me make sure I was
9:12
making the right decision. Because when you're 18 and
9:15
you're full of ambitions and energy and not the best decision
9:18
making processes, sometimes you can make bad decisions.
9:22
And you know, like I went to the the recruiting office and
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they're like, what jobs can I get?
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And they're like, well, right now, like the biggest thing was
9:29
like truck drivers because they're getting blown up in
9:31
convoys. I wanted to be a reconnaissance
9:33
guy. I've always wanted to be at.
9:34
I remember the Gulf War and Norman Schwarz called in the
9:37
First Cavalry division going and blah, blah.
9:39
Like you be a truck driver and we'll give you a $10,000 sign on
9:42
bonus. I was like, really?
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They met and they were like, and I said, do I get a gun?
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And then my dad looked at me. He's like, you want to be Rambo?
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I was like, but drive a truck. I was like, I'll take whatever
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you give me. So I went and I became a truck.
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I would have said yeah, I do want to.
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Be I did, I took the job right. And I, I went to Iraq two weeks
10:00
after basic training, went to Anbar province and and it wasn't
10:06
that fulfilling for me because I was more gung ho than my peers,
10:11
because I wanted to do more. Well, you were just truck.
10:13
Driver, I was just driving a truck, you know, and we would
10:16
hit roadside bombs and we couldn't shoot back and I just
10:18
got more and more angry and like I just wanted to.
10:21
And the truck drivers, as important as the job it is,
10:25
they're not the brightest or sharpest rocks in the bucket.
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They're not because it's one of the least sought after jobs.
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So a lot of the people that fail out of schools or do whatever,
10:37
they go to that job. And I was just very frustrated
10:40
and I received a lot of anti-Semitism when I was in that
10:44
role. And I saw a lot of racism.
10:46
Like for example, I requested kosher meals and they couldn't
10:51
get them for me because it was too hard.
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And, and it's not the Army's fault.
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It was just having really bad leadership with bad ambitions.
10:59
Did you? Did you have anything overt
11:00
ever? I had people sneak pork into my
11:03
food because I would eat vegetarian.
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So I started eating vegetarian, you know, and I felt very
11:09
isolated and I started to slip off there, you know, I came in
11:12
very strong, like wearing a kippah, this and that.
11:14
And I was lonely, you know, and. Why do you think?
11:17
What do you think that caused you to go off the deck?
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What was the? I wanted acceptance, I wanted
11:21
to. I was a soldier.
11:22
Like I wanted to be part of the team and I didn't really know
11:26
how to be myself and be a soldier at the same time.
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Do you think that that affects all people in their environment?
11:33
I think it does. I think it does.
11:35
And instead of getting out, no, because I, I, I was in Ramadi, I
11:39
went and saw things. I, I worked alongside the
11:42
Marines and the infantry in these things and I saw what they
11:44
were doing and I saw how close they were with each other.
11:48
And I was like, maybe before I get out, I'm going to reenlist
11:50
and change my job and get the job I really wanted.
11:52
And so I did that. We came back from Iraq and I
11:54
immediately changed my job to a cavalry scout and I did six
11:59
years as a Calvary scout and I went shortly thereafter.
12:05
I went exactly a year to the almost a year to the maybe it
12:07
was like a year and a some change to Iraq.
12:10
I was in Sadr City in Baghdad and going after Hezbollah and
12:13
Iranian akuds and I was like, this is great.
12:16
And that's kind of where I really say my army and
12:23
experience life started. I don't really talk about the
12:25
first half because it was to me, it was very mundane.
12:28
And my first experience in Iraq was, I know I got hit by a
12:31
roadside bomb twice, but it was when it's cool, you know, I
12:36
didn't nothing, you know, my ears rang, but it wasn't really
12:39
what I experienced. The next time was as far beyond
12:43
anything that I could have imagined it was.
12:47
But the the people that I worked with, the teams that I were
12:49
with, the people that we helped and things like that.
12:52
It was kind of an adrenaline rush and it was very hi tempo.
12:59
And so there, that's kind of where my career kicked off.
13:03
And then I started going more and more and more I'm.
13:06
Going to want to ask you about combat before that when you were
13:08
in Sadr City did you get to know any of the locals?
13:09
I did. I did.
13:11
And what? What was that like?
13:14
I love Iraq and I know it's weird saying right, but like
13:18
some of the nicest people I've ever met and I, I didn't hide
13:21
that I was Jewish really at all. I did not hide it and because I
13:26
wanted to use, it's not like a little social experiment in my
13:28
head because part of our job was embedding with local population
13:32
and and to getting gathering intelligence and collecting
13:35
because we went after high value targets.
13:37
And so we would live in the Iraqi towns and Iraqi little
13:41
police stations and checkpoints and to gather information.
13:44
Then we would go after people. So like.
13:46
We lived there like undercover. Or no, like I feel like going
13:49
there. And we would just embed
13:50
ourselves with, you know, allied forces and we would train Iraqi
13:55
commandos. We'd go on with Iraqi commandos
13:56
and live in this this house. And then the neighborhood would
13:59
come in there and we'd rotate out.
14:01
Did those friendlies love you? What?
14:02
The Iraqi commandos, are they happy to see you?
14:03
Yeah. Yeah, actually, funny story, we
14:08
lived at this place is called Baghdad al Jedidah, and it was
14:11
kind of like a melting pot of cultures in east Baghdad and the
14:14
9 Nissan district, they actually named their months the same as
14:16
we do and. For cultures.
14:20
They have Christians, they have Shia and Sunni.
14:23
They used to have a lot of Jews there.
14:25
And it was this, it borders this area called Katamiya and
14:29
Katamiya, which was controlled by al Qaeda, Iraq.
14:32
I remember seeing this result still chiseled into the doorways
14:35
because that's where the biggest advantage of Baghdadi Jews were
14:38
interest was in Katamiya. And and I was like, I'm not
14:41
going to hide this because I remember one day I asked them, I
14:43
was like, what happened? What's this?
14:45
I was like, oh, how you what the that you hold?
14:47
I was like, what happened? And the guy laughed and was
14:49
like, we got rid of them and I punched him in the face.
14:52
Really. Yeah, How'd that feel?
14:53
I. Felt great and then I was you
14:56
know, I got kind of a talking to his like you can't just do that,
14:58
you know, because I was like you're right, you know,
15:01
whatever. And so I started just like I
15:03
want to know how many of them are like this.
15:05
So like when we were going in these embedments, like we worked
15:09
at the Iraqi police and we were pair up one and one when we're
15:11
doing security on the roof, there was this guy, I forget his
15:14
name. I wish I remember his name.
15:15
And we, we just had a, a bus bomb, you know, kind of blew up
15:19
a bus of teenage girls and we responded to them as they're
15:22
still on fire and trying to get out.
15:24
And I looked at he's like, he was very traumatized by it.
15:28
And he was like crying. And I was like, it's OK, man.
15:31
You know, we're going to get the guys.
15:32
And it's like, I know what you're going through.
15:34
He's like, do you? I was like, yes, I was like,
15:36
this happened to us many, many times.
15:38
And he's like, what do you mean? And I took my glove off and I
15:40
showed him my tattoo and he's like, you're Jewish?
15:44
And I said, yeah, he said didn't believe me.
15:45
So I reached into my my aid pouch and I took out my art
15:48
school sitter and I said, I'm Jewish.
15:51
He says, really? And he's like, you're the one of
15:53
the nicest Americans that I've met because before this, his son
15:56
had like cancer or something. So every time I'd come out on
15:59
the on a mission, I'd, I'd get his kid something from the store
16:02
on the base. I bought his kid a PlayStation.
16:04
He needed conduct and his wife would bring me falafel.
16:09
And I was like, he's like, you're not scared to tell me.
16:11
He's like I I'm a human just like you.
16:13
And the police station found out that I was Jewish and they would
16:17
call me, I sayoni al Jadidah, the Zionist of al Jadidah.
16:21
And I'd eat breakfast with these guys I met.
16:22
The police commander was my friend, became my friend.
16:25
I have his beret in my house. So I probably have the only
16:28
Iraqi beret in Israel. Why did that happen?
16:31
Why did you? There's one instance where
16:33
someone is so happy that the Jews are gone, and then you're
16:35
sitting and eating with their brothers.
16:37
The next I. Asked them why they think this
16:38
way and they said I don't know, this is just what we're taught.
16:42
So that's it. So we just had Corey Gill.
16:46
Yeah, Gill Schuster was at this fantastic interview, and we both
16:51
came to the same conclusion on this point, which is there's a
16:54
lot of solutions that are put forward in order to destroy the
16:57
dogma of the hate of the other side.
16:59
But I think that the way to do it, we think the way to do it is
17:03
to change what you're taught because that you can't.
17:06
You can't have a negotiation for peace with someone that wants
17:09
you dead. You're never going to be able to
17:11
find peace with hate. But if you can make the person
17:14
across the table not hate you and see you as a person, which
17:16
is exactly what you did with this guy, right?
17:19
That's the basis of all open dialogue, right?
17:21
That's that's how we don't, right.
17:23
So these guys, they're like, oh, you're your person just like we
17:26
are. But that was the epiphany.
17:27
That was the profundity, right? And when you ask them, they they
17:31
told you now what we've seen, now what we've experienced.
17:34
But it's what we're taught, right?
17:36
Yeah. So that makes sense to me.
17:37
That's crazy though. And before this incident, you
17:42
know, I was very childish sometimes with my anger.
17:45
And, like, I would take everything out, what was
17:47
happening here on the Iraqis there.
17:50
Like, I would just go overboard, you know, on fire at anything.
17:56
I would destroy everything and after.
18:00
Fired everything like people. Anything and everything, like if
18:03
we were in a gunfight, like I would go extra like I would make
18:07
sure I'm shooting players in the windows of houses instead of
18:10
just bullets like, you know, and it and it kind of held me back
18:13
in my progression, you know, at the time, like, you know, you do
18:16
what you have to do to survive, but like in my head, I'm I I
18:18
told myself I'm going too hard, but it when I met this guy, it
18:23
made me realize, you know, maybe I there's a different approach
18:26
did. That even help.
18:28
No, it made it worse. You know, I'd get tattoos, you
18:32
know, like I'd shoot a guy and my friend would put a tattoo dot
18:34
on my on my hand. I didn't make it worse.
18:36
It would make it worse, you know, I wasn't happy.
18:38
Wasn't cathartic. I didn't, and I was connected to
18:41
Judaism, but I was doing it in the wrong way, right?
18:43
And I knew I was wrong because I was not how I was raised, you
18:47
know, And now I have these tattoos on me and blah, blah,
18:50
blah, blah. You know, I wanted to make them
18:51
uncomfortable because they made me uncomfortable.
18:53
What do they mean? What do you got?
18:54
So I have like never forgive. I got that one.
18:56
My friend I was in high school with was killed and in my public
19:00
school hide my last year as guy Andy Kim, he was killed in
19:03
Ramadi. I was shot by a sniper and I got
19:07
that. And then I got infidel tattooed
19:09
on my on my on my arm and my brother's like, you're not an
19:12
infidel. Like you're Jewish.
19:14
You believe in God. He's like, that's the dumbest
19:16
tattoo ever. And like yes.
19:18
Now the Quran says Jews are people of the.
19:19
Book yeah, we're the people of the book like, and I'm this room
19:22
so and then I got this, you know, so it's just not who we
19:28
are, you know, and I was doing things the wrong way and so I
19:32
met this guy and I was nice to this guy and I kind of changed
19:34
my perspective on things and maybe a little bit of has said
19:41
is what we need. And so I was kind of these
19:43
people instead of brutal, brutal, you know, there's a time
19:48
and place for being brutal. That's not it.
19:51
You know, these are just people and like I asked them, why do
19:54
you hate me? He's like, I don't hate you, but
19:56
we say things we don't know why. So Fast forward our interpreter,
20:01
something happened to our normal interpreter and he's a great
20:05
guy. Called him Uno because he had a
20:06
unibrow. And he was also, he got a
20:09
temporary guy. We didn't know this guy from
20:10
Adam. And he found out I was Jewish.
20:13
And like, next thing I know, like I see a lot of the Iraqi
20:16
police beating this guy up. I was like, everyone's like,
20:18
what's going on? Oh, he's taking pictures of Jew
20:22
of the Jew. And they wanted to protect me
20:25
because they didn't know why he was taking pictures of me.
20:26
Because like there was like a an echelon from Al Qaeda, Iraq of
20:31
who to kill of like they pay bounties.
20:33
Like there's an American soldier, there's a Special
20:35
Forces soldier, and if you can kill a Jewish one.
20:39
Really, what do you think is putting together a target
20:40
package? For sure, that's what they do
20:41
because we are also doing counterterrorism.
20:43
So like we would go after Al Koons, like Iranian Al Koons,
20:46
Hezbollah from Hezbollah, Iraq. Like we weren't going after the
20:49
triggerman for roadside bombs. We're going after the guys who
20:51
would supply the IE DS from Iran, like the guys who are
20:55
doing the training and indoctrination and facilitation
20:59
of extorting the population so. The head of the snake.
21:03
Yeah, our job was to disrupt and go after the head of the strike
21:06
and, and cooperate with the Iraqi counterterror task force.
21:09
And they they did it and they, they these Iraqis could have
21:15
potentially saved my life from something because I was nice to
21:20
them and they knew I was Jewish. And that always stick with me,
21:24
you know it's. Let's say you weren't nice.
21:27
Let me think they would have let it happen.
21:28
I think if I was an arrogant kid who thought I was better than
21:34
them, yes, I came in humble and I acted.
21:39
So the only reason why they thought you were human is
21:40
because you had to. You showed them your humanity.
21:42
Yes, I find that sad. I think that's a great thing
21:46
that you did. Yeah.
21:48
But it's just so sad that you have to do that.
21:50
It is, and there's too many of them to get for if all of us
21:53
went around to change everyone's perspective.
21:56
But at least I know there's one guy in Iraq.
21:58
Right. No, that makes a difference.
21:59
You know, because he'll tell his children.
22:01
And I asked myself, was it because I had a gun?
22:03
Do you think they would have been nice to me if I wasn't
22:05
armed? Like, I don't know.
22:08
But I'd like to think it made me a better human.
22:11
And an interesting thing is, is like, Americans have an ego
22:16
about them. And especially in the Levant,
22:21
there's cultural. Cultural.
22:26
What's the word? I'm looking for things that are
22:28
similar to us but not to normal Americans.
22:32
And when you go into these countries, a lot of soldiers
22:35
would go in and they they talk down to whoever they're talking
22:38
to. They don't.
22:39
They use a little smart card book and think that's how you're
22:42
supposed to talk with the State Department hands them out.
22:45
And The funny thing is even in Afghanistan, a lot of the
22:48
Afghans and Iraqis would go to me to talk because we have a lot
22:53
of similar things. Like I don't like just the
22:58
culturalisms of Judaism and Islam are actually very similar,
23:02
like in a lot of ways, like how we eat, like how they talk and
23:07
they just, they just fine. And you talk to them about
23:09
Judaism and and and. That's cultural.
23:11
I mean, actually it's quite different.
23:13
Actually, it's different, but like, but we don't how they sit
23:17
down with bread. They don't make hummotsi, but
23:19
they always bring the bread and they break it and they hand it
23:22
around and everybody eats bread and they eat with the bread and
23:27
just like the food that they eat there is kind of strange to
23:31
Americans. They wouldn't touch it.
23:32
But like for us it's normal. Like you have like kebab and
23:35
Lafa and pita and all these other and hummus and all these
23:38
other things. To us, it's just a normal
23:40
everyday, right? So when you go in there, you're
23:42
not nervous to or the way they drink tea, like they drink
23:46
coffee, you know, it's just, we do it here like it's they're
23:50
comfortable around you. So like they would end up coming
23:53
to me and I'm able to get things from them more so than the
23:55
regular Americans can. And I was always in charge of
23:57
the interpreters. So I just thought it was kind of
24:01
like. Because.
24:01
Because you just got along with them more.
24:03
Yeah, like, and the Jew, the Jewish guy, like it was, I don't
24:10
know, it was, it was fun, like, and I learned from them about
24:13
myself as much as I think they learned about me.
24:16
And that was pretty cool. So you must have seen a lot of
24:19
combat. Yeah, I saw my fair share.
24:21
OK, Did you do any close quarters?
24:22
Lots. OK, talk about that.
24:24
Because the reason I think that's important is I'm never
24:27
going to understand your experience.
24:29
I hope I don't understand your experience, but I think it's
24:31
important that we do. I think it doesn't matter what
24:36
country you live in, Americans or Israel, but there are people
24:40
that are in a far away land in hell or the devil's playground
24:45
and they're out there saving your life by killing others.
24:48
And and we don't even think about that.
24:50
It's just an every everyday occurrence.
24:52
This is something that I tell my students might tell me them, you
24:55
know, your brother and are on the front lines and on the
24:58
Israeli army doing all sorts of things to allow you to keep you
25:01
know, you're here learning. If you're not praying for them,
25:04
there's something really wrong with you, right.
25:07
And I think that ignorance is because we really that it's not
25:09
only that we don't understand, but we have no contact.
25:11
We have no point of reference, so if you can unpack that a
25:14
little bit, I think that'd be helpful for me and probably your
25:16
listeners. So I was in two different types
25:19
of battlefields number in Afghanistan, it was either
25:24
really close ambush and orchards like Vietnam or fighting from
25:28
hilltops with distance. So the Baghdad was very, I would
25:35
say when people ask me and even my buddies, we were in both
25:37
deployments together. Like I went with the same unit
25:40
every time, which one was more intense, right?
25:44
And you know, Afghan, we were in gunfights 2, three times a day.
25:47
Iraq, same. But there's something about
25:52
breaching a door in a building that's three, four floors,
25:55
knowing that on the other side of that door there's people with
26:00
AK-40 sevens. I just want to tell you are
26:02
waiting for you because they know you're coming.
26:04
You can hear the trucks and they have spotters everywhere.
26:07
You know, you go down Route Pluto's or Route Rob Bronze or
26:10
Route whatever the roads are even through the Mahalas, which
26:13
are neighborhoods. They release pigeons as you go
26:16
and the pigeon signal that the Americans are coming and they
26:19
know when we're coming. They have spotters everywhere.
26:21
And when do you know 123 go? You know that the soon as that
26:29
doors opened, there's a you know there's a potential, you're
26:32
going into a threshold of the complete unknown, and there's
26:36
nothing more terrifying than that.
26:38
How do you operate under that? You just go because you have to.
26:41
You have to. And you know that it the first
26:44
man in you know that more than likely you're going to get hit.
26:48
And thank God, every time I was the number one man, there was
26:50
never a guy with an AK47 behind that door.
26:54
Well you got plate hits is everything.
26:56
You said AK47 as opposed to. They had a KS and some of them
27:02
had Iranian made stuff. I'm sixteens and most of the
27:05
time was Kalashnikovs and or there's a pressure plate with
27:11
the, with the bomb in it. You know, you know that doors
27:14
open, you don't recall, you know, the, you're in the
27:16
threshold, the fatal funnel. So you just go and it's just
27:18
like the biggest adrenaline rush you could ever think of because
27:23
you know, I'm either going to die or I'm not.
27:25
That's really it. Like most of the people that get
27:28
shot and CQB are dead. They die because it's not like
27:32
shooting far away. Like you put it on Full Auto and
27:35
you're just waiting by that door and then zip them, you know?
27:37
And if you're coming in, you have less than a fraction of a
27:41
second to turn that angle and hit where you're hit where
27:43
you're hitting and. I'm going to keep interrupting
27:46
and I'm sorry for that but but like my grandfather's military
27:49
is a corporal in the army. He was in the first Calvary unit
27:53
and he was point man on AI. Think a few different battles
27:59
and he told me something really interesting, which is that every
28:01
single time he went into combat, he was incredibly afraid.
28:04
He and he had the realization realization though, of its kill
28:07
or be killed. So he was able to use that
28:09
adrenaline and and focus, which is I think what you're saying,
28:11
but he said they were religious experiences for him.
28:15
Yeah. Yeah, they are.
28:18
How explain that? Is it because do you feel God or
28:21
is it like, or is it that that sort of in the trenches thing of
28:23
this is it? Mad.
28:27
Sorry, give me a second. Sure, take your time.
28:33
It's you get this feeling right and I was off the Dara and this
28:39
is kind of really where it started.
28:40
I started coming back and it's like you get this feeling in
28:43
your gut something's about to happen.
28:46
You just feel I don't can't. It's like a sixth sense and
28:48
something's telling you what that something's about to
28:52
happen. And I just start saying Shema
28:57
and you go in and you're OK. And I remember one day we hit
29:01
this house, we caught this ID facilitator and we're leaving.
29:05
There's this big pile of trash on the in the intersection right
29:08
outside the the cordon. The cordon is where you block
29:10
off and no one gets in, no one gets out.
29:12
And we call it, we're called a killer capture mission.
29:14
So you go in if you run to kill him, if you capture him, you
29:16
want to capture him for intelligence, right?
29:18
We had 100% success rate on capturing people the whole
29:21
deployment. And I just had this feeling and
29:27
they're like, hey, babes, go check out you and Eli, go check
29:30
out that because this guy was like known for booby trapping
29:34
everything. And we, we go up to this thing
29:35
and the next thing I know, I'm waking up on the side of the
29:38
road and I didn't have a scratch on me.
29:42
And it was, it was surreal, like.
29:50
Is are those one of those things that do you think that pivoted
29:53
you like push you into the direction of of redemption?
29:56
Yeah, it did. And it just things kept
29:58
happening. Like it's weird like these.
30:01
I was talking to my brother-in-law about it, you
30:03
know, but like, weird occurrences, you know, like,
30:06
like messaging, you know, subliminal messaging, you know,
30:09
it's right there in front of you.
30:10
There's miracles all the time. It doesn't have to be in combat,
30:13
you know. And you know, it's just like,
30:20
it's like in the these close quarters environments, it's just
30:23
like constantly in your face, like when you're shooting in a
30:26
room and you're shooting at people that are from me to you.
30:29
And sometimes a lot of time they'd be in a house like in
30:32
this neighborhood, it's very similar to Baghdad.
30:34
It's like this. They're in a window across the
30:36
alley and you're shooting and you just you can have the carbon
30:39
from the machine gun casings in your teeth.
30:41
Like you can't hear anything. Like it's just like, and there's
30:46
bullets going by you. You don't even if it's like a
30:48
gush of wind and it's just like you're just doing anything you
30:51
can to get more volume towards them and they're pushing towards
30:54
you and you're just thinking to yourself the whole time.
30:59
It's like, God help me, God, you know, and for some he listens,
31:05
for some he don't. But you get this acceptance that
31:08
when it's your time, it's your time, and you just keep going
31:11
like it's. I don't think I've ever heard
31:14
someone say, you know, that physical moment.
31:17
For me, it was being in Iraq, almost getting blown up.
31:21
I think that's a really powerful experience.
31:23
It's a really powerful thing. What's it like to face evil,
31:28
these people, what you did? Because I feel like that's also
31:31
jarring, this sort of like a morbid look into the abyss.
31:36
It takes every inch of your body and soul when you capture these
31:42
people and you know the things they've done to not become them.
31:47
OK, unpack that. That's important.
31:49
We captured this guy and this guy's job was to kill the
31:54
children of Iraqi collaborators with the US.
31:59
This is his sole job. He'd go after small children and
32:01
kill them. And we can't.
32:03
I remember this guy who's like 6 foot tall and he just had we,
32:09
we, we captured him and he had a bag of Iranian money and his and
32:14
his under his under his, they hide everything in the kids
32:17
rooms just like they do in Gaza. All the weapons, the cell
32:20
phones, the SIM cards, the money is always in the kids cribs
32:24
under the crib. And he had in his eyes, like you
32:29
could slap him in the face and he just stare at you.
32:34
And I just remember like, I know what this guy did, the children
32:37
and like the epitome of evil, like Mangala evil, because he
32:42
wouldn't just kill them. He would first play with them
32:46
and send pictures to the families.
32:49
For what? We're just to punish them?
32:51
Just to punish. Them and it traumatizes you,
32:58
like just knowing that these people exist, right?
33:01
And it taints you because this is what you see the world as
33:03
now. These people exist.
33:06
And you can't just say tikkun olam, be nice to everybody.
33:09
Tolerance, you know, because you know, it's not the reality.
33:13
Some people you can't negotiate with because some people find a
33:15
reason to be evil, right? And if he wasn't in the Jaish,
33:18
Al Nadi or Al Quds, like he would have just kind of killed
33:21
children probably. He's just doing it for any
33:23
cause. It's like these Nookba guys,
33:25
They don't just wake up one day and say, I want to kill a baby,
33:28
right? These guys have always wanted to
33:29
hurt babies and it's hard not wanting to.
33:34
And I tell my friend's son who's been in.
33:36
Why do you think that's so though?
33:38
Like what? Why do you put you this way?
33:41
There aren't that many baby killers in Canada or America.
33:45
That they know about. OK, fair enough.
33:47
But they also go these in their environments so it's easier to
33:50
do it. Because it's encouraged.
33:52
It's encouraged. It's in a conflict zone.
33:54
It's like, you know, they have battlefield tourism, like, you
33:57
don't know. And I think in the Western
33:59
world, there's also better control measures to, I guess,
34:06
above the surface to see what's going on.
34:08
Like you don't see what's happening in the underworld, You
34:10
know, you don't see what's happening behind the scenes
34:14
that, you know, the DEA and the FBI and the counterterrorism
34:17
units don't talk about. You know, there's definitely
34:21
stuff that happens, but I think there's a level of control that
34:27
keeps things. We also have a better justice
34:31
system in the West than they did in Iraq, like the Iraq is the
34:34
Wild West, you know, but it definitely back on subject that
34:40
it it's hard to not want to be passionate about and the first
34:44
human instinct. This doesn't want to make this
34:47
guy hurt, you know, and you can't because there's legal
34:49
ramifications. And I actually have this
34:52
discussion. I had this discussion with one
34:54
of my good friends. Son was his actually a chaplain
34:57
in the US Army, very good friends of our family.
34:59
And his son is in as a high y'all and a couple days on
35:04
Sukkot, he came to America to visit us.
35:06
He's in like my Arsuka. And I'm giving him this talk
35:10
that I'm having with you about you're going to be put into a
35:12
situation in the Shamron or somewhere in Israel where you're
35:16
going to bag up a guy and you're going to want to break his toes
35:19
or do other things to him. And I'm telling you, don't.
35:23
There's a time and place to be ruthless and there's a time and
35:25
place just to be normal and be professional.
35:28
And when that time and place happens, you'll know.
35:31
And then not too shortly after that, he was in Bay Area picking
35:36
up the pieces and capturing the guys.
35:40
And he tells me thank you for that talk because every time he
35:45
patches someone, he thinks about that because I told him about
35:47
some of the stuff that my guys did that I'm not going to talk
35:51
about that just for things happen in their emotion.
35:56
And thankfully I have a clean conscience.
35:59
I never did anything because I was always too scared to now so.
36:03
Let me ask you something crazy. Why was that the right thing?
36:05
Why can't you make them hurt? Why can't I?
36:08
Yeah, why shouldn't you? There's, there's legal
36:11
ramifications #1 #2. Let's forget the legality.
36:16
The legality. Morally.
36:20
I don't know, like there's something that's stopping me
36:22
from become like, I'm not a monster.
36:25
Is it because? So you're saying it's because
36:26
you'll become them? Not that I'll become them, but
36:29
this is something I'm going to have to keep in my memory bank
36:31
for my whole life. Yeah, but maybe you can make the
36:33
argument that you'll keep it in your memory rank.
36:35
But it's a good sacrifice because people will know that if
36:39
they do these things, this happens to them.
36:42
I don't think they care. That's the other problem is like
36:44
these people know. Really.
36:46
Even if you like, you torture them to death, they're just
36:48
going to. Yeah, because.
36:49
We usually hand them over the Iraqis anyways and.
36:51
That's what happens. Yeah, they make them disappear
36:55
like or you just drop them off a Shia and a Sunni minute
36:58
neighborhood. Really.
36:59
That's. Yeah, that's literally what
37:00
happens. Like that's how much they hate
37:02
each other in there. But there's a there's a
37:07
protective space that I put myself into, and I'm grateful
37:11
that I did it at a young age to where like, there's only so much
37:14
in your memory brank. There's like the whole saying
37:15
Penguins on the on the iceberg. Yeah, but only so many memories
37:19
in your memory, brank. And the strongest, most vivid
37:21
memories are the ones that always stick with your whole
37:23
life. OK, but again, morally, do you
37:26
think it's moral or immoral to do that?
37:28
Again, forget the law for a second.
37:30
From a Western perspective, yes. From your perspective from.
37:34
An individual perspective. No, I don't think so, but I also
37:39
think there. Is you don't think so.
37:42
However. OK, did the wrong thing.
37:43
They did the right thing. There's a conscious thing like,
37:47
yes, they're bad people, you captured them, but if you know
37:51
your job is to do XYZ, your job is not to do this.
37:57
Should should there be a job to do that though?
37:59
Should there be? Yeah, that's a hard question.
38:02
And in a warrior's world, yes. An old tribal world, yes.
38:12
But if everybody goes around. Look, Barack, let me make it a
38:18
lot more blunt. I don't really think that one
38:21
should be asking or should be coming at moral questions with
38:25
what the East or the West demands.
38:27
In other words, I think things are moral because they are
38:30
moral, and things are immoral because they are immoral.
38:32
We make these moralities based on societal trends.
38:35
Which may not be proper. Well, it may not be proper, but
38:38
at the end of the day. See, I'm not.
38:40
Asking No, I'm saying it from an individual perspective.
38:42
Like if you're comfortable of doing it, you do you.
38:45
But like there is a there is a price of violence on your soul.
38:50
Every time you do something, it takes a piece of you away.
38:54
Yeah, but I'm not asking Sergeant First Class borrow.
38:56
No, I'm not saying this. Are you saying this to me as a
38:59
human like? So like saying, saying that in
39:02
it may be worth it, but not really because you're going to
39:05
pay for it. Down the road, some way, you're
39:07
going to pay the piper, whether it's psychologically emotion or
39:12
physically. Like it's, it does.
39:14
Like every time you kill someone, it gets easier.
39:16
Really. Yes, it does.
39:18
And it that's that's dangerous. Like it's like does.
39:23
It ever get easy? Yes, it gets easy.
39:25
It gets easy. OK, well, why don't you?
39:30
And I don't like talking, I mean, I'll talk about it.
39:32
I mean, I don't like because I don't want to feel like I'm
39:34
bragging about it. It's like it's just no, it's,
39:36
it's a concerning thing. And that's the danger of
39:38
conflict. It's like the more you do it,
39:40
the easier it becomes. And I think that's one thing to
39:43
think about the Arabs, why they're do things so bad all the
39:46
time, is because they're just so used to it acting this way that
39:50
that's their norm. So you really think they don't
39:52
think about it because? No, it's just normal, like you
39:55
can go and just like gunned down a half a neighborhood and that
39:59
gets caught in the crossfire and the other kids like walking
40:01
across the street, stepping over the dead body.
40:03
Why? Because that's their norm.
40:07
And if you do this a certain amount of time, like you just
40:10
become accustomed, that's a reality and.
40:15
Did it shock you that there was a day that you woke up and
40:17
you're like, yeah, this is easy for me?
40:19
Yeah, and it, it, I remember in Afghanistan, we got into our
40:25
first big ambush. They tried to they they killed
40:28
my chap on the day before and then they, they tried to overrun
40:32
our outposts and I got 1 and my team later Johnny Miller looks
40:41
over at me and he's like, how are you so calm?
40:44
I said, just another day. And later on he talked to me.
40:49
He's like you were just like a normal, like it was a normal
40:52
everyday. Like you got, you walked down
40:54
off the fighting position and opened up an MRE and just
40:57
started eating spaghetti. Like you weren't even shaking.
41:00
And I was just like, it's just another day.
41:04
And when it's all over, you think back and you're like, how
41:10
is that so normal? And should it be normal?
41:14
Is it more like a reflection or is it like a haunt?
41:17
It's not a haunt, it's just like, and it brings out the
41:21
question like, is this normal or is the societal norm normal?
41:28
That's an amazing question. It's a deep question.
41:30
Like did we create our post traumatic traumas based on
41:33
expectation management from the West and the comforts of the
41:37
West or is it this the reality? Which one is not reality?
41:42
I think there's two realities and it's just whatever
41:45
environment you're in, you place yourself in that environment
41:48
because that's the environment you have to live in at that time
41:51
and place in space. Well, that might be really
41:53
useful information for vets coming back from war.
41:55
Yeah, and that's what I tell them.
41:56
I was like, the war is not here, the war was there.
41:59
It's like, I feel like I'm OK. I do have PTSD, you know, and I
42:03
struggle from time to time. But compared to a lot of my
42:05
other friends and compatriots so I served with, I'm doing leaps
42:09
and bounds better than they are. What sort of PTSD?
42:12
It's like they just stuck 10 years ago.
42:16
Like they always want to talk about what they went through.
42:18
They always. They can't move past the
42:20
experience. They can't move past the
42:21
experience. It's like they miss it.
42:22
They can't fit in like they have trouble with their marriages
42:25
they drive. Why do you think that is?
42:28
I think a lot of a lot of it #1 is lack of identity, lack of
42:39
purpose, lack of when you're in the army, you have a purpose.
42:43
Whether you're Jewish, non religious, Christian, like at
42:46
the end of the day, if you don't have anything, at least you're
42:48
in the army and you have your little tribe when you get done.
42:52
And the the best, the most greatest feeling in the world is
42:55
in combat is that there's nothing more simple than the
42:57
tribal brotherhood of like, you live like cave people and you
43:03
share each other's emotions. You have your team, you have
43:05
your team, you know and you know everything about each other.
43:10
The most intimate of conversations and the most
43:14
mundane of arguments. It's like the work life times
43:17
10. I bet you that you didn't
43:19
experience any anti-Semitism in some.
43:20
No, I never experienced anti-Semitism in these units
43:23
after I changed because they're your brothers.
43:25
They're my brothers like and we still talk to this day, a lot of
43:27
us and you know, but when you get out and the civilian we're
43:33
just not fish in the sea. And I think being Jewish helps
43:37
me have more of an identity. And I already have another
43:41
tribe. I have a tribe that I really
43:42
should people belong to. And that is healthy, you know,
43:49
and then having a job is healthy, but not just having a
43:52
job, but being something a part of something.
43:55
Like the most successful people who get out of the army are are
43:58
the religious Christians, Mormons or someone with a
44:02
faith-based community. People that just get out and
44:07
then like, I'm just going to go get out.
44:09
Is they, they, they struggle and I don't think I have that.
44:13
I have a good family. I do have trouble sleeping
44:16
sometimes. Sometimes I, my mind goes
44:19
places, but like I, I reality check and I get back on place.
44:22
I'm very, I'm very helped. I would like to say compared to
44:25
other people, I'm good and I'm very aware when when things
44:28
happen. But the thing I think that makes
44:33
or breaks, and I was talking to my chaplain friend whose son is
44:37
a he's asked me if there's a PTSD problem in Israel at the
44:41
doorstep that the US is facing. And I said I don't there's going
44:44
to be a PTSD problem, but I don't think it's going to be as
44:46
severe as in America because America doesn't have an identity
44:53
anymore. Right, Israel does.
44:58
That's very interesting now that you've had experience with
45:03
multiple different sorts of people in Iraq.
45:06
So there's always going to be the question of negotiation with
45:08
the other side. That's what everyone talks about
45:10
right now. Is there a point in your in your
45:13
opinion, are there, are there enough people that want to come
45:15
to the table that don't want to kill and mame you and burn you?
45:19
You're. Talking about negotiations with
45:20
the Palestinians in Iran. Or in general, culturally, like,
45:25
are there, are there, are there enough of them?
45:27
Are there enough open people in that culture?
45:31
I don't think negotiation at this point in time is relevant.
45:37
That's my personal opinion. I think right now be, you know,
45:43
negotiation tactics from an adversarial perspective.
45:46
As you negotiate with me, I'm going to think of an angle to
45:48
get one up on you long term, right?
45:50
That's what a negotiate is, kicking the can down the road.
45:54
We didn't beat the Nazis through negotiations.
45:56
We didn't beat Japanese through negotiations.
45:58
We beat them through attrition and at the end of the day and I
46:04
was talking to my wife about this, we back on the West this,
46:08
you know, western thought is, you know, everyone's worried
46:12
about in war, you know, collateral damage, things like
46:16
this. It's terrible.
46:18
You know collateral damage is terrible and don't go out of
46:20
your way and become Nazis and just purposely pull out
46:23
civilians and do things to them. But however.
46:26
People die. People die and we're and when
46:30
you're so selective and you're feeding your enemy as you're
46:34
fighting them at the same time. We had this problem in Iraq and
46:36
Afghanistan at the same time. We're going to Taliban
46:39
controlled villages and we're giving them stuff that they're
46:43
using against us at the same time while trying to talk to
46:46
them and coerce them to become more western or more democratic.
46:49
Some cultures don't want that and some cultures, you either
46:54
fight them or you isolate them. Like North Korea, they're just
46:58
isolated. There's no negotiating with
47:00
Nick. North Korea, they're isolated.
47:03
Iran, there's no negotiating with Ayatollah in my opinion.
47:07
I mean, I, I fought these guys. Like these guys are die hard.
47:10
These are guys that are willing to sit in the corner in a room
47:13
knowing that 15 guys are about to come through that front door
47:17
with every technology in the world and either make you
47:21
disappear or put you in a dark cage somewhere that you'll never
47:24
see the light of day again. And they're willing to do that.
47:28
And the IRGC is just like that. They don't.
47:30
They just killed 30,000 of their own people, right?
47:32
It's going to. What's the solution to that?
47:34
The only solution is the Iranian people are going to have to
47:36
overthrow their own government. We can't do that for them.
47:38
Can you make it easier easier through?
47:40
I think that's what mowing the grass we're trying to do.
47:43
But at the end of the day, my opinion is if we can bomb them
47:46
all day, but if the people aren't standing up and what
47:49
happened in Germany is it took a few generals to get sick of it
47:53
and they surrendered without Hitler's approval.
47:55
Hitler was ready to let the country burn to the ground
47:57
rather than surrender. And that's that's how wars are
48:01
won. And.
48:04
I just think if if you're right, which I think you are, then I I
48:07
don't think there should be a problem with accepting the fact
48:10
that you might have to mow the lawn many times.
48:12
I think that's what Israel does. Yeah, but the whole world hates
48:15
that. The whole world hasn't won a war
48:17
since World War 2. Exactly.
48:20
I think I'm talking about some of the American public as well.
48:23
I think they're looking at this war in Iran and saying like,
48:25
well, there's no, there's no exit strategy right now where
48:28
you win every single, where you achieve every single objective.
48:32
So therefore this war doesn't really matter.
48:34
I don't see it differently other than, I mean, there are certain,
48:37
I think, objectives that that President Trump is trying to go
48:40
after and he probably will be successful over in regards to
48:42
the nuclear projects. But I think a large part of it
48:44
is just mowing the lawn. And he might have to do that
48:46
many times over. The American people might have
48:48
to do that many times, but I don't think they understand
48:50
that. They don't because they're not
48:52
the ones at risk. And that's another factor is the
48:55
West has never really been in other than Ukraine.
48:58
And Ukraine is a great example of how they need to fight is
49:02
like, you send drones at Kiev, that's fine.
49:06
They're going to go here. We're going to go push into
49:09
Russian territory and do this like we're, you know, was it
49:13
like 1.5 million Russians have been severely wounded and over
49:18
600,000 are killed. Why?
49:19
Does no one care about that? About Russia.
49:21
Which drives me crazy. Like the people, the war.
49:23
I feel like people. This war has gone on for a long
49:26
time and it has like no press. No Jews, no news.
49:30
No Jews, no news. But I think a lot of it too is
49:33
like, you know, 911, everyone was gung ho for a little bit.
49:36
You know, we dropped big bombs on Tora Bora.
49:39
You know, we pushed into your rock.
49:42
But other than 9/11, 911 was a horrible incident.
49:46
But like, we didn't have a Pearl Harbor, you know, the Nazis.
49:50
We didn't have 1/3 Reich planning to send ballistic
49:53
missiles and warships to the East Coast.
49:57
We didn't have the Japanese trying to shell California like
50:01
we didn't. We haven't had this real threat
50:04
that Israel faces. So the West really doesn't have
50:07
a concept anymore. And they're still wrapped around
50:10
what the Nazis did. And so everything reverts back
50:14
to we can't be that way. We can't be that way.
50:16
And there's a Western school of thought, which, yes, Western
50:19
democracies is a melting pot and things like that.
50:22
So they also have this value that they have to uphold.
50:24
Right. But it's also a luxury that they
50:27
get to uphold because they're not put into situations on a
50:30
daily basis that that's either make it or break it.
50:33
Is it a failure? What you're saying is a failure
50:36
of understanding. So is it that failure of
50:39
understanding that's making them have an A hard, hard time
50:42
accepting what America is doing to Iran and what Israel does to
50:47
its neighbors on occasion? Or is it hatred for Jews?
50:51
Or is it both? I think a lot of the hatred for
50:57
Jews right now and in the West is they don't know why they hate
51:04
us. It's just like the Iraq goes
51:05
back to the Iraqis like that. They, they see these things on
51:07
TikTok. They're fed information.
51:10
You have Tucker Carlson, who has no real global experience, but
51:14
he likes to open his mouth and talk.
51:16
Never spent one day in the military, but he's a strategist
51:18
expert. And these, these these kids on
51:22
the alt right, they see Tucker Carlson and they think AIPAC and
51:25
Israel are doing all these things.
51:28
And then you have the left and these kids are lack of identity
51:32
as well. And they just see these things
51:34
from, you know, the far left people and oh, Israel's killing
51:39
babies. So we must hate Israel.
51:41
They don't know the truth. They don't care to look into the
51:43
truth because that requires work that requires other than staring
51:47
at a YouTube video. And I think that's, but I think
51:51
a lot of it comes at these people are reaching out for an
51:53
identity that they don't have and they're they're, they're
51:56
just looking for reasons to care about something and they're just
51:59
looking in the wrong places. And I think when you have it so
52:03
good for so long. You forget and get comfortable.
52:06
You forget and get comfortable, you know, and, and that is a lot
52:11
of it. It comes to because America has
52:13
a great military and they're willing to go to places that not
52:16
doesn't necessarily pose immediate threat to the United
52:20
States, maybe a future threat. And they go there and they do
52:24
things or they work with other countries to do it for them so
52:26
that their boys don't have to do it.
52:28
That's why we're feeding Ukraine all these munitions.
52:32
Like, would you rather the First Calvary Division lose all their
52:34
tanks and then that score? Would you rather Ukraine do it
52:38
without missiles? And so there's something to be
52:40
said, you know, the isolationist theory of the Jews or Israel's
52:44
calling the shots in America. No, America's using Israel so
52:48
that America doesn't have to do it at volume.
52:51
And when you have it that good, it's easy to forget what's right
52:56
in front of you. So the solution is is if we keep
53:00
going back to us but educating the public.
53:02
So I guess we need more social media experts and, I don't know,
53:08
public discussions. That's what it sounds like.
53:11
People are afraid to have hard discussions.
53:13
People just need to have them. You need to have hard
53:15
discussions. I keep bringing this up.
53:16
That's what sucked about the whole, you know, Charlie Kirk
53:18
being assassinated. It was like such a blow.
53:20
Yeah. Because like, that's all.
53:22
All he's doing is talking, having those difficult
53:25
conversations. But we need.
53:26
But The thing is that we need 1000 people like him.
53:28
We need 10s of. Thousands of people.
53:29
Charlie Kirk dying was the best thing for Tucker Carlson and
53:32
Candace Owens, because now there's no Charlie Kirk to
53:35
advocate for us. OK, someone watching this has to
53:41
stand up because there's a hole. There's a very big boy big hole
53:44
and and the problem with and it goes back to bullying, right in
53:50
schools. Like you can't do anything in
53:52
America or in the West because it might upset somebody.
53:55
You know, everything's caught in walls.
53:56
There's no hard discussions. So everyone has an opinion and
54:00
they bet themselves in these little vacuums of a echo
54:02
chambers, echo chambers, right, because they're afraid to have a
54:04
discussion. Like you see these things with
54:06
like this Israeli guy who meets Arabs and pro Palestine people,
54:12
white supremacists on like chat rooms and as soon as he brings
54:15
up a hard question they turn off.
54:17
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
54:18
That's that's the norm, right? And you just have to be able to
54:20
sit at a table and like, why do you hate me, right?
54:24
Like are you comfortable doing this?
54:26
Yes or no? Like, why did you do this?
54:28
Right? And I think once it goes back to
54:31
like when I was in Iraq and I just had this discussion with
54:33
this Iraqi guy, we became friends and he told me he's
54:39
like, I didn't like Jews, but now I don't care.
54:43
I like you like you're. And his wife would literally
54:46
bring me falafel every day. And I have the police chief's
54:49
beret in my house in part of Ghana and.
54:51
It's awesome. I think that's what really needs
54:54
to happen. I don't think we're going to
54:55
change the world, but you change one opinion.
54:59
That guy now has an opinion. To seed.
55:02
That he can tell somebody else. One of my brother and I's best
55:05
friends is from Mosul and he's a biggest advocate for us.
55:08
He writes for The Times of Israel.
55:10
We're running out of time. OK, So this is like another six
55:14
questions, which I'm not going to get to.
55:16
So we're going to have to somehow bring it back, OK.
55:18
But you know, Israel has a really, it's an interesting set
55:27
of, of events that led to the fact that we have many people
55:31
that are in the army. Many, many people.
55:34
There's a draft. So you walk around and you're,
55:37
you are a trained killer. I mean, that's what a soldier
55:39
is. Do you think there's a, a value
55:42
in that? And do you think that religious
55:45
people should be even, let's say Haridim, not necessarily even
55:49
having to go to the army, but do you think people should be
55:52
should be trained and how to defend themselves And OK, do you
55:56
think that's necessary? For us as Jews?
55:58
Absolutely. So why do you think there hasn't
56:01
been? And perhaps this is a bad thing,
56:04
but why hasn't there been like her 80 movements to teach people
56:07
how to assemble a rifle or hand to hand combat if you think it's
56:11
that necessary? I have a lot of opinions on the
56:16
what the karate community needs to be doing better.
56:19
Like I'm a very proponent of national service and I'm not
56:21
talking just about the military. Like change bedpans, fix the
56:25
roads, like paint the guy who paints the, the, the, the paint
56:29
strips on the no parking or the blue and white, you know, it's
56:32
always an Arab guy. Like that should just be
56:34
national service. Like go do something for your
56:35
country. And I think part of a security
56:38
aspect is national service, something America's lacking too,
56:42
is a unified national service of some sort, right?
56:44
Since they got rid of the draft like I, but I think it's
56:48
imperative of us as Jews to be prepared and knowledgeable on
56:54
what we have to do to preserve our our way of life and our
56:59
identity. And, you know, if you have an
57:02
identity to fight for, you can't beat us.
57:05
You know, that's why I don't believe you can fully beat
57:09
Islamists, because they're defending their identity and
57:11
they're willing to take up arms for it.
57:14
You know, we should be the same. No, but OK, but that's national
57:18
again. So that's that's that's a
57:19
national requirement you're putting on people, which we
57:23
don't have to go through my pain right now most because there's
57:24
no time. But in terms of combat, should
57:26
everyone know how to fight? I wouldn't say everyone needs to
57:29
know how to be in combat, but I think everyone should at least
57:32
know how to defend themselves and their family.
57:34
OK, OK. So would you advocate for, let's
57:38
say, a program that came up that taught civilians just basic?
57:42
Yes, OK. Like what happened if another
57:44
Shell October happens and the guys who are proved to have
57:47
rifles die and there's a rifle laying on the ground and you
57:49
have a chance to protect yourself and your community.
57:51
That's what I was thinking about, yeah.
57:53
You know, I think in schools and a lot of European countries
57:57
still do it like the the cadet programs will come and they'll
57:59
have deactivated rifles and they teach how to assemble,
58:01
reassemble them. They do it in Ukraine.
58:03
I think they do it in Russia. They do it in couple other
58:07
countries. I can't remember off the top of
58:10
my head, but I think it's an important facet.
58:11
I think it's an important aspect and also teaches awareness,
58:14
right? It teaches kids not daddy's
58:16
pistol, don't touch it. And you know what to do.
58:19
If you pick up a gun, you're not pointing at the wrong direction.
58:22
You know, there's there's other things in play about it, like
58:25
gun safety. I'm also a big proponent of when
58:28
I, when I lived in Silver Spring, and I always say this
58:30
like stop hiring outside help to protect you.
58:32
The best person that can protect yourself is you.
58:36
You protect your Shoal, you protect your house, make your
58:39
own internal security because no one knows you like you.
58:42
So if everybody is internally working together as a community,
58:46
you know, that's what I do like about Israel because they do it
58:49
better than the Jewish communities in America.
58:51
America. They're always well, just hire
58:53
an off duty cop. Like what's it go do to
58:54
yourself? Like you go check up on your kid
58:59
playing outside the bacon nested anyways, why don't you just
59:01
rotate out as the dad club and just you know, But I think it's
59:06
a good question. It's a good idea.
59:07
I think they should incorporate that and I think they should
59:10
make it easier, maybe not with the gun approval, but to educate
59:16
people so they know if God forbid, something happens, they
59:21
know what to do if they have to pick one up, right?
59:23
You know, and it's not if, it's when.
59:26
Right. OK, Barack, leave us with an
59:28
idea. The life is good, right?
59:36
And we all make mistakes in life, right?
59:38
And everything is like I talked about subliminal messaging from
59:42
Hashem. You know, in the, in the darkest
59:45
of times, there's always something beautiful to look at.
59:49
And my bubby who survived the Holocaust, when I was in war,
59:53
she would always write, draw flower on the back of the
59:57
letter. And she said, even in the most
59:58
evilest and darkest of places, find one thing beautiful that
1:00:02
God gave you. And you'll be happy and if you
1:00:07
find something beautiful that in Hashem and something that is in
1:00:11
this world and over in your environment that you like, they
1:00:14
know this is placed here for me to, to, to appreciate everything
1:00:19
else. It's like that one candle in the
1:00:21
dark room lights up. And I think especially in
1:00:24
today's times and trivial times in Israel and around the world
1:00:28
used to find that one happy thing to bring Simcha and you
1:00:31
share that happy Simcha with somebody else.
1:00:34
And that makes have one good conversation about that Simcha
1:00:38
with somebody and then they'll share that and then that that
1:00:42
Simcha gets spread throughout the community.
1:00:45
Holy words bar, thank you so much.