Latest / Talking Michigan Transportation / Bill to protect Mackinac Bridge moves forward
Transcript
- 0:08Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
- 0:11Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranston.
- 0:12Jeff Cranson: Today, I'm going to talk about a bill that made it out of the Senate that would offer some extra protection from trespassers, or the Mackinac Bridge.
- 0:25Jeff Cranson: It was in the wake of some troubling incidents on the bridge, involving people that climbed a tower and otherwise tried to access the bridge to take photos.
- 0:33Jeff Cranson: Another involved a bomb threat that closed the bridge on a busy weekend and disrupted travel for many hours.
- 0:38Jeff Cranson: Back in 2022.
- 0:40Jeff Cranson: The Michigan House of Representatives passed a bill at the time, sponsored by then-State Representative John Damoose 99-6.
- 0:48Jeff Cranson: And it classified the Mackinac Bridge and several other vital structures in the state as key facilities that later stalled in the Michigan Senate.
- 0:55Jeff Cranson: Now, in 2025, the Senate has reported out unanimously a new bill Senate Bill 71, sponsored by now-State Senator Damoose, and it's more narrow in focus.
- 1:06Jeff Cranson: Applying strictly to the Mackinac Bridge Designation means trespassing on the bridge is a felony, and I spoke with Senator Damoose about the bill and why moving it has been a passion of his for so long, and later I spoke with Mackinac Bridge Authority(MBA) Chairman Patrick Shorty Gleason about why this is so important to him.
- 1:24Jeff Cranson: I hope you enjoy the conversation, so once again, I'm with Senator John Damoose of Harbor Springs and Senator Damoose actually worked on this legislation the House version of the legislation, which was a little more broad back in 2022 and would have included some other structures.
- 1:42Jeff Cranson: Now Senate Bill 71 is narrower in focus, just applying to the Mackinac Bridge, but it's still important and I'm just really impressed with the perseverance that he showed in getting this resurrected and, through the Senate, voted out this week, which is just tremendous.
- 2:02Jeff Cranson: Can you talk about why this is so important to you, senator?
- 2:12Senator John Damoose: For sure, and it was.
- 2:12Senator John Damoose: We started in the House in 2022, and that got sidetracked by some last-minute conflicts some people had with it.
- 2:15Senator John Damoose: Then we tried it again in 2023 and couldn't get it brought up last session, so we brought it up again and this time third time was a charm and I really appreciate the committee chair, Stephanie Chang, for bringing this up and pushing it through right away, but it's worth sticking to.
- 2:32Senator John Damoose: I mean, the Mackinac Bridge is such an important part of our state.
- 2:35Senator John Damoose: I mean it's hard to overstate just how valuable that bridge is to us, and you know it came out several years ago, during a bomb scare and a number of high-profile trespassing cases, that the prosecutors didn't have the tools to prosecute people who were trespassing on that bridge and potentially causing great harm to it, because somehow it wasn't listed as one of our state's pieces of key infrastructure.
- 3:00Senator John Damoose: And that's what this bill does.
- 3:01Senator John Damoose: It gives the same protection as other important things like pipelines and utility lines and wastewater treatment facilities and those type of things.
- 3:10Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I mean, that's my memory that the prosecutor said hey, you know, I'd like to be able to press charges on this, but the law doesn't really allow for me to pursue this as a felony.
- 3:21Senator John Damoose: And that's kind of what got the ball rolling, right to pursue this as a felony and that's kind of what got the ball rolling right.
- 3:27Senator John Damoose: It's just amazing.
- 3:29Senator John Damoose: It absolutely is, and you know this is we commonly refer to as our critical infrastructure law, and I literally can't picture a more critical piece of infrastructure for the state of Michigan than the Mackinac Bridge.
- 3:36Senator John Damoose: I mean, if something happened to that bridge we would literally be broken into two states for years.
- 3:43Senator John Damoose: You don't just throw up another Mackinac Bridge.
- 3:45Senator John Damoose: These are huge public works projects and that bridge is critical for international trade, for our economic well-being as a state, for families being brought together.
- 3:57Senator John Damoose: I mean, if you've ever driven the other way around the lake to get to the UP, it's a beautiful scenic tour but it's not practical for everyday travel, for sure.
- 4:07Jeff Cranson: Yeah, it's funny you say that when you talk about just the idea of having to rebuild something that we all take for granted now, people of later generations don't even have any idea what it took to get it built, and I feel badly having to say this and state this reality, but I'm not sure we could build it today.
- 4:26Senator John Damoose: I'm not sure we could either.
- 4:27Senator John Damoose: You know and it's funny you say that because I was when I was touring the new lock that they're building up in Sault Ste Marie.
- 4:34Senator John Damoose: There, you know, this thing isn't going to be done until after 2030.
- 4:38Senator John Damoose: It's just on and on.
- 4:39Senator John Damoose: It's multi, multi-year project.
- 4:41Senator John Damoose: It's huge.
- 4:46Senator John Damoose: And they were saying, talking about how fast the other locks got built I can't remember the exact time, but it was like 18 months start to finish I asked them.
- 4:50Senator John Damoose: I said, well, what was different back then that they can whip this lock out like that.
- 4:54Senator John Damoose: We have to take over 10 years on it.
- 4:56Senator John Damoose: It's a matter of regulations and all kinds of technology and I mean, and we're just a different time.
- 5:03Senator John Damoose: I mean, everything takes a long time now, whereas these guys just sort of got together and built the lock, and so that that's absolutely true.
- 5:10Senator John Damoose: And think of how much it would cost to rebuild that bridge, and it's one thing I I love.
- 5:15Senator John Damoose: Do, um, the job that the mackinac bridge authority does on this, because they have, they run that bridge with an iron fist and, um, I know it annoys some people who would like to get more tours of the bridge and more.
- 5:28Senator John Damoose: You know a lot of different things, but the point of the matter is that bridge is in the condition it's in because they run it with an iron fist and they don't mess around.
- 5:36Senator John Damoose: And I know originally they didn't even project that it would live this long.
- 5:40Senator John Damoose: And this bridge has decades left of service because it's been maintained so beautifully.
- 5:45Senator John Damoose: So it's just a real success story for our state.
- 5:50Jeff Cranson: Well, it is, and I think you know you and I talked about it before that the reason, as you said, that somebody like Senator Chang from Detroit would push a bill like this through her committee and realize the importance of it is because you don't have to live where you do, or let alone the Upper Peninsula, to appreciate the iconic nature.
- 6:08Jeff Cranson: I mean, we put it on our license plates, we take great pride in this bridge.
- 6:14Jeff Cranson: So could you talk a little bit about what the legislation will actually do?
- 6:19Senator John Damoose: Okay.
- 6:19Senator John Damoose: So this legislation basically makes it a trespassing on the bridge, a felony punishable by up to four years in prison or a $2,500 fine, and obviously prosecutors and judges can decide what's appropriate here.
- 6:33Senator John Damoose: But those are extra tools, because right now it was like a civil infraction and a ticket if you could even do anything on it, which makes no sense at all.
- 6:42Senator John Damoose: But this requires there to be real clear markings on it, which makes no sense at all, and it requires there to be real clear markings on it and this should be a pretty good deterrent to people who want to trespass on the bridge.
- 6:52Senator John Damoose: I mean and it's not all a matter of terrorism, albeit those type of things you remember, after 9-11, there were people everybody was scared to death and somebody was supposedly seen sort of casing out the Mackinac Bridge when we were on a heightened sense of alarm and when we have things like bomb scares, even a bomb scare is devastating because I remember a few summers ago the bridge was closed for like five or six hours on the busiest travel day lives.
- 7:19Senator John Damoose: But even beyond the actual security threat to this, there was a real high-profile trespasser who snuck on the bridge, up to the top of the bridge along the cables in the sort of early morning hours for a big internet stunt.
- 7:35Senator John Damoose: He posted these pictures all over the world.
- 7:37Senator John Damoose: They got all kinds of news and things.
- 7:39Senator John Damoose: That's so unbelievably dangerous.
- 7:41Senator John Damoose: I mean, can you imagine if that guy was up there and fell off of those and landed on a car with a family traveling across the bridge?
- 7:48Senator John Damoose: I mean, this is an extremely big safety concern and every time they get one of these trespassers they have to shut the bridge down.
- 7:56Senator John Damoose: They call out the Coast Guard, the police, it sets off a state of emergency which we just can't afford to have happening up there.
- 8:03Senator John Damoose: It sets off a state of emergency which we just can't afford to have happening up there.
- 8:05Senator John Damoose: So this gives prosecutors extra tools to punish those who do it and hopefully make examples of some of these people so fewer people try in the future.
- 8:11Jeff Cranson: Well, and when you talk about those stunts, just to add to the audacity, the people that do these things then try to financially benefit off them from their photos and social media posts.
- 8:22Senator John Damoose: So yeah, you bet, and right now, even if they have to pay a fine of a couple hundred bucks, it's well worth it because they can make a ton of money on the social media posts.
- 8:30Senator John Damoose: So it's just, you know, I honestly think this was just an oversight.
- 8:35Senator John Damoose: I can't imagine anybody intentionally didn't include the Mackinac Bridge when they were really building these key infrastructure laws and you know there are other facilities, no question, that need this protection.
- 8:47Senator John Damoose: When we originally did this bridge, this bill it was such a beautiful bill, it was three words.
- 8:57Senator John Damoose: It literally added the Mackinac Bridge into that piece of legislation and it had to get a little bit more complicated.
- 9:00Senator John Damoose: There's a few things, but then I remember there's a big push to say, well, what about the Blue Water Bridge, or the International Bridge, or the bridge in Charlevoix, michigan, the drawbridge there?
- 9:09Senator John Damoose: Or what about all bridges in the state?
- 9:10Senator John Damoose: And I think all these things are really good and some of them may require being added to this list at some point, but for this one we didn't want to complicate it or give people reasons to say no, we just wanted it this time to be as clean as possible and make it the Mackinac Bridge.
- 9:29Senator John Damoose: And it's funny because I already, the minute this passed I got a call from somebody saying, hey, we'd like to make an amendment and add police cell phone tower, police towers you know these communications towers to that.
- 9:40Senator John Damoose: Would you, would you mind?
- 9:41Senator John Damoose: And I said, yes, I would mind tremendously.
- 9:44Senator John Damoose: I will go and work on a bill that does that, but we need to get this one passed without any complications now and any amendments.
- 9:53Senator John Damoose: You're going to have people heap on and before you know it, this thing's going to get cobbled up in the Lansing mess and it won't get passed.
- 9:59Senator John Damoose: So we just need to pass it now cleanly from the house.
- 10:02Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think you were wise to pursue it that way, because you're right.
- 10:06Jeff Cranson: I mean, I wish we could be all things to all people, but it was hard enough getting this done.
- 10:11Senator John Damoose: That's for sure, and you guys were so helpful.
- 10:14Senator John Damoose: Mdot was just terrific and the team that came out.
- 10:17Senator John Damoose: It was really a good process too all along, because initially there were some concerns that the tribes had related to would this interfere with a ceremony they do near the bridge, and we we instead of just, you know, rolling our eyes at that we all took it really seriously and got really involved.
- 10:35Senator John Damoose: Mdot helped us with that.
- 10:36Senator John Damoose: We got the tribes to support it.
- 10:38Senator John Damoose: We got sign off from you all, from from a whole wide range of people, and everybody was there to testify I mean, I think the whole, the bridge authority, the director of the bridge board member, the head of the Mackinac Bridge Authority board.
- 10:51Senator John Damoose: This was a real team effort and so and I think we've got it to a place that this should be an easy, easy run in the house and easily signed by the governor now.
- 11:00Jeff Cranson: Yeah, and I appreciate those comments for Kim Nowak, the bridge director, and I'll be speaking.
- 11:07Jeff Cranson: The second part of this podcast will feature a conversation with Shorty Gleason, the chairman of the MBA, who, as you mentioned, was also very helpful in getting this across the finish line.
- 11:18Senator John Damoose: He's just been great to work with.
- 11:20Senator John Damoose: He's such a kind gentleman and he has been such a joy to work with on this whole process.
- 11:26Senator John Damoose: It's just been a good team.
- 11:28Jeff Cranson: Well, he's very thoughtful and he's been on the MBA for a long time and this is very personal to him.
- 11:34Jeff Cranson: As you know, his father helped build the bridge and he absolutely understands that Greek proverb, understands that Greek proverb the society grows great when older people, older generations, plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.
- 11:51Senator John Damoose: And that's a great way to put it.
- 11:52Senator John Damoose: You know, that actually means something to me too, because my grandfather in the 50s, mid-50s till the mid-60s was the city manager in Traverse City and he was at the dedication of the bridge, and so when we passed this I thought it just kind of felt like you know, continuing his work a little, and he passed away before I was even born.
- 12:14Senator John Damoose: But that meant something to me you know to be carrying on this legacy a little bit.
- 12:17Senator John Damoose: It's just kind of neat, and certainly Shorty Gleason's part of that and that comment it really fits it really fits.
- 12:25Jeff Cranson: Yeah Well, and you got.
- 12:26Jeff Cranson: I mean, you got unanimous approval in the Senate, and how often does that happen for anything?
- 12:31Senator John Damoose: So that's true.
- 12:32Senator John Damoose: That's true.
- 12:32Senator John Damoose: That's true.
- 12:33Senator John Damoose: Well, I mean, fortunately, it happens more than people think, but I mean not necessarily unanimous.
- 12:38Senator John Damoose: But this is what we're in a divided government right now.
- 12:41Senator John Damoose: This is what we're in a divided government right now, and this is what we should be doing is, I think divided government can be a very successful thing for our state, and it forces us all to roll up our sleeves, listen to one another, incorporate other people's ideas and get things done that we can all agree upon.
- 12:55Senator John Damoose: I think that's a chance when the state can really thrive.
- 13:00Jeff Cranson: Yeah, well, well said, I really appreciate your work on this and I know you're going to go to work on your colleagues in the house to get similar success there.
- 13:08Jeff Cranson: So good luck and thanks for all you're doing.
- 13:12Senator John Damoose: Thank you and thanks for all you're doing.
- 13:14Senator John Damoose: I appreciate the work and I appreciate the partnership.
- 13:16Senator John Damoose: So let's take the next thing and let's work on that and get going on it.
- 13:24Jeff Cranson: Sounds good.
- 13:24Jeff Cranson: Stay with us, we'll have more on the other side of this important message Know before you go, head on over to MiDrive to check out the latest on road construction and possible delays along your route.
- 13:35Jeff Cranson: For a detailed map, head over to Michigan.
- 13:38Jeff Cranson: gov/D rive.
- 13:50Jeff Cranson: So, again, we're back now with Patrick Shorty Gleason, who is the chairman of the Mackinac Bridge Authority and has been working alongside Senator Damoose and others on this legislation going back to the House version, which ended up stalling in 2022.
- 14:01Jeff Cranson: So, shorty, it's a good day when you can pass a bill like you've been working on so hard and I know you've got a background working on all kinds of legislation, but this one must feel pretty good to you, huh.
- 14:13Shorty Gleason: Well, this one feels the best, and not only is it a good day, it's a great day, fantastic day.
- 14:19Jeff Cranson: Yeah, so talk about you, know you and I have talked before, but remind people of your very personal connection to the bridge and why you know this level of protection matters to you.
- 14:30Shorty Gleason: Well, just from our family's perspective, my dad spent three years up there working on the bridge.
- 14:36Shorty Gleason: He come out of retirement in 1999 to work again as an iron worker putting the traveler in underneath the bridge.
- 14:45Shorty Gleason: My son, on that same project, served part of his apprenticeship as an ironworker on that bridge.
- 14:52Shorty Gleason: But you know, and I was so fortunate to be appointed to the Mackinac Bridge Authority in 2004, I was and believe it having served for 21 years and to be able to work with people like Senator Damoose in particular, to go the length that he has gone to get this legislation at least through the state senate now is remarkable.
- 15:19Shorty Gleason: And I think, in all fairness to everybody involved and I think in all fairness to everybody involved, the director of MDOT, director Wieferich, has been very, very helpful as well.
- 15:31Shorty Gleason: I certainly want to thank Senator Chang for allowing it to come before her committee, senate Majority Leader Brinks for letting it go to the floor as quick as it has.
- 15:42Shorty Gleason: It was just last week it had come out of committee, so you know there was so many people involved in this process for almost five years now, Jeff, and to have it get through the Senate 38 to zero.
- 15:55Shorty Gleason: I mean you want a definition of true bipartisanship.
- 16:00Shorty Gleason: You know, here's the Senate is controlled by the Democrats, a bill that's introduced by a Republican.
- 16:08Shorty Gleason: That's pretty remarkable.
- 16:09Shorty Gleason: That itself speaks to the importance of the bill and what the senators here in this great state of Michigan think of the way through very learning.
- 16:23Shorty Gleason: It was very educational for me as well to get it as far as we've gotten it.
- 16:29Shorty Gleason: But you know, it would have never happened without the persistence of Senator Damoose.
- 16:45Jeff Cranson: Well, Senator Damoose and I talked about that a little bit too, and the idea that Senator Chang from Detroit understands the importance of this bridge to everybody in the state.
- 16:49Jeff Cranson: You don't have to live in the northern lower or the UP and cross it every day to understand why it's so iconic and why we have so many photos of it and so many reproductions of sunsets and winter scenes and everything that have the bridge in the background, and it shows up in all kinds of media reports, anything involving the Straits.
- 17:04Jeff Cranson: You know you'll see a picture of the bridge and, like you mentioned, senator Brinks, who lives here in Grand Rapids, cares a lot about it too, so that says that people across the state get it.
- 17:15Jeff Cranson: Talk about why this was so important to you and why the threats posed by the trespassers and you know the bomb threat and everything really disturbed you.
- 17:26Shorty Gleason: Well, you stop and think about what the Mighty Mac provides for the state of Michigan, as well as Canada and the entire nation, when it talks about just the goods, the economy that goes over that bridge every day of the week, 365 days a year, and if something was to go wrong up there it would be devastating to the economy.
- 17:52Shorty Gleason: But even more importantly, let's just address it from a safety point of view, about.
- 17:58Shorty Gleason: The primary purpose of the Mackinac Bridge Authority is to make sure that we provide safe passage for all the motors going across the Mackinac Bridge.
- 18:08Shorty Gleason: And when you stop and think about if somebody just wants to take off on a thrill adventure or something of that nature and they start going up the main cable, the carrying cable for the Mackinac Bridge, and all of a sudden they freeze up, that person has to be rescued.
- 18:28Shorty Gleason: Has to be rescued, yeah.
- 18:31Shorty Gleason: And then when you take into consideration, you know, from April to November, you can be rest assured, just about any day, monday through Friday, you're going to have employees of the Mackinac Bridge Authority out there doing their maintenance work on the bridge and quite often, like we will here just in the next week or so, we're actually going to have outside contractors working on that bridge as well, and if something happens where if it's a car accident or something has to be rescued off that accident or something has to be rescued off that the first people on that scene are the Mackinac Bridge employees or the construction contractors.
- 19:10Shorty Gleason: So you know there's no place for thorough seekers to be, and you know we've had too many incidents already in my opinion, and to just have a slap on the wrist.
- 19:23Shorty Gleason: It's time to say enough is enough.
- 19:25Shorty Gleason: If you're going to get on the superstructure of the Mackinac Bridge, then there's going to be some severe punishment for doing so.
- 19:35Jeff Cranson: So talk a little bit more separately from this legislation and what it could mean, Some of the other things, other challenges you're dealing with with the MBA looking forward and what needs to happen.
- 19:48Shorty Gleason: Well, we'll shortly- when I say shortly, you know it's projected somewhere around 30, or, excuse me, 2032 to 2034.
- 19:59Shorty Gleason: It's going to be the start of a major redecking project on the Mackinac Bridge, and you talked about whether or not maintenance pays for itself over time.
- 20:11Shorty Gleason: When that bridge was originally designed by Dr Steinman, he thought that the decking replacement might have to take place starting in 1999.
- 20:19Shorty Gleason: Might have to take place starting in 1999.
- 20:23Shorty Gleason: Well, here it is, 2025, and we are.
- 20:27Shorty Gleason: Yes, we are doing some paving projects to prolong the bridge, we are replacing some grating, but the maintenance program at the Mackinac Bridge started really November 1, 1957.
- 20:40Shorty Gleason: And those employees up there have done such a good job maintaining that bridge.
- 20:46Shorty Gleason: The life expectancy is pushed out anywhere from 32 to maybe 36 years before we start into the major deck replacement.
- 20:58Shorty Gleason: So you know, does maintenance pay for itself?
- 21:03Shorty Gleason: I think the Mackinac Bridge is a good example of how the life expectancy has been pushed out for approximately 32 years says it all.
- 21:11Jeff Cranson: Yeah, it's textbook asset management.
- 21:13Jeff Cranson: When you talk about 19 or 2032, that would be the 75th anniversary of the of the opening of the bridge, so that's pretty incredible.
- 21:22Shorty Gleason: Yeah yeah, Boy.
- 21:23Shorty Gleason: It's hard to believe that it's it's coming up that quick, but it is.
- 21:27Shorty Gleason: It seems like it was just a few years ago.
- 21:29Shorty Gleason: We celebrated 50 years of it.
- 21:31Jeff Cranson: Yeah Right, well, Shorty, thank you for taking time to talk about this a little bit, and congratulations.
- 21:37Jeff Cranson: I know that now you know all eyes turn to the house, but I think you've got some good momentum going in, so we'll hope for the best there.
- 21:45Shorty Gleason: Well, thank you, and we certainly want to, on behalf of the Mackinac Bridge Authority, thank all the senators for their great vote today in supporting the Mackinac Bridge.
- 21:54Shorty Gleason: Thank you, Jeff.
- 21:55Shorty Gleason: Have a great day.
- 21:56Jeff Cranson: You too.
- 21:57Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
- 22:00Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
- 22:05Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.