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Artist Kelly Brinkmann on Writing & Marketing Her First Book · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider starter kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: One of the biggest joys of my professional life is seeing first-time authors launch their books.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's even more fun when they're friends whom I've known for a long time.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's certainly the case with today's guest.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to share this conversation with my good friend Kelly Brinkman, author of Art for the Soul, Growing Your Faith Through Creativity, which was published earlier this year.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly is a faith-based working artist and writer.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: She studied studio art and painting and earned her BA, which equipped her to use creative thinking and problem solving in various nonprofit and corporate leadership positions over the years.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly serves as a writer, public speaker, and creative instructor in her community at her studio, Art and Souls Creative Studio, in Washington, Missouri, which is not too far from where I live.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: She serves, learns, teaches, and mentors alongside women in her home church while starting her first term on the local school board in 2022.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can see more about Kelly on her writing and speaking website, which is Kellybrinkman.com, and you can see her in her studio at ArtandSouls.com.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: These sites offer her scripture study tools, downloads of hand-drawn bookmarks, and a portfolio of handmade artwork as tangible tools and reminders of God's never-ending love and grace.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly and I first met when I was a professor at St.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Louis Christian College a number of years ago, and I had the honor of handing over one of my beloved courses to her, which was called Introduction to the Arts.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: And Kelly took over that course when I switched my roles there in a couple of years before I left to go into ghostwriting full-time.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I've got to tell you, it was so much fun knowing that I had somebody of Kelly's quality and caliber as an artist and a writer and as a teacher to take over that course that I had taught for about 15 years.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And over those 15 years, I had taught the course, gosh, probably 20 or 25 times in different capacities and versions.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really, really fun to be able to know she was stepping into a role that I had inhabited a long time and I heard wonderful things about her as a teacher.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really fun to see things kind of come full circle here on this podcast interview today because I gotta be honest with you, it's not very often that I get to bring people in who I knew from my college days and from my college teaching world into what I'm doing now as a ghostwriter and podcaster and so forth.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So this has been really, really fun and such an honor to be able to chat with Kelly here on today's episode.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: In our conversation today, Kelly shares her process for writing art for the soul as well as the items she baked into the book to make it more fun and reader-friendly.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly also shares a lot of fascinating detail about her branding and book marketing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And this is gonna be really, really interesting to those of you who maybe are getting ready to launch a book or you're thinking about writing a book and you also are thinking about that launch as well, because you always got to be thinking about the book launch.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Don't just think about the book, think about the launch as well.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful that I have somebody who's so creative and so thoughtful and so fun, like Kelly in this conversation because she shares a lot of her tips and tricks and a lot of the cool things that she's doing.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna want to grab some pen and paper or re-listen to this episode a time or two because you're gonna be taking a lot of notes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly's done an incredible job in putting together a first class book as well as in her creative thinking and engaging marketing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my conversation with the amazing and creative Kelly Brinkman.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly, welcome to the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm really excited.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: We are getting to finally have this conversation and talk about your book, which I know has been before you publish it, has been in the works for a long time.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been really cool to see your journey with this.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: But welcome, first things first.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little surreal because I'm such a fan of the show and I listen in and it you encourage me to write.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And now I get to maybe give back and contribute.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's really awesome.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love the book.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's so well done and so much fun.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: For those who are not familiar with what you do and what the book is about, give us kind of a bird's eye view of what you do as an artist and why you wanted to write this book and what it's about.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really a potter at heart and an artist.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I am passionate about using creativity to grow your faith.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, in ways that you study, in ways that you interpret information and in ways that you commit it to heart, can be done in a really creative way.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, my book, Art for the Soul, Growing Your Faith Through Creativity, is just that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's an exercise that you can use as you're growing in your faith.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And talk about your journey with writing this book, if you will.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't remember when we first started talking about it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: You showed me a draft of the book, what, three or four years ago?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is that does that even sound accurate?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that is accurate.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then all the world paused for a while and then resumed.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so during that time, I was attending writers' conferences and really connecting with a lot of people like you and others, and trying to determine if I should use a traditional publisher or I should publish on my own.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was about April of 2022 that things came together all in the same week to publish on my own and really be a general contractor of my work by hiring out the editors, the layout artist, and the final copy editor to produce the final work.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I imagine it's got to really feel satisfying to be able to hold the book in your hands and get to see the the fruit of all this labor that you've been thinking about and and praying about and working on for so long.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Was that a pretty exciting time, I imagine, getting your first print copies?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it really was.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think of the proverb like a desire accomplished is sweet to the soul.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really sweet.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta celebrate with our kids.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: We had pop schools that day, and and really get to uh hold the book in my hand finally.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that was just a really wonderful feeling.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I love sharing that at author talks and instances like this.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that that joy continues.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you you mentioned kind of when we were prepping for this conversation, you mentioned that you tried to write this book in, I guess, what we would call more of a linear fashion for for a number of years, but then you had a difficult time kind of conforming your writing process to those kind of standard practices.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to hear about that and how you connected your right brain thinking as an artist with the left brain kind of more uh linear or logical process, not that art is illogical, but you know what I mean.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I think your journey with actually crafting this book might give some hope to people who sort of feel stuck in the more traditional ways of writing a draft of their book.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like it was a a bit different for me.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am equally right brain, left brain.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you do any of those personality tests or how people think tests, I test just dead in the middle that I do both.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I tried to really write it by using an outline and filling in um the whole scope of the book in one fell swoop.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I tried for close to 10 years, Kent, and found that I just couldn't do it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: It just felt like, you know, square peg, round hole, couldn't do it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then I gave myself a timeline um of about two and a half months and said, I'm gonna write the book.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sat down and I started writing it in little pockets, which would eventually then become parts of chapters.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I sat down, wrote little pockets, and then I started to kind of knit them together and see that, oh, I had this chapter and then two others, but I needed a connecting chapter, a way to get there.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I wrote that and kind of put the whole book together like that at the same time I wrote the book proposal.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because they have to be, you know, work together.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because as your your following knows, writing a book is one thing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Publishing a book is an entirely different thing.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so really it was that for me a hiccup with writing the book proposal, as well as the query letter and all of the documents required to publish it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of wrote those in tandem so that they were all unified.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And thankfully, I had a wonderful developmental editor who walked through and combed through it to see if there were any holes or things that could be moved around sequentially.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know that you at the beginning you were thinking about going with a traditional publisher, but you ended up doing self-publishing.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel like the work that you had put into the proposal was wasted when you went into doing self-publishing?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or how did I guess what I'm asking is how did doing all the stuff with the book proposal actually end up helping you, even though you self-published?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It really helps um writing the book proposal to really refine what it is you're going to speak about in each chapter and the focus of every chapter, so that you have that clearly in mind when you're you're writing, because we've all had days where we write and we kind of meander and say, where did this end up?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So writing with the end in mind was a great um way to work on my proposal at the same time so that I could see it come together.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I also broke the book into four chunks and four parts.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So then that helped.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's pretty common with writers, but being able to step back and say, okay, what are the four main things I want to say?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And how would I unfold each of those?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love the way you also at the end of each chapter, you put, well, you put several add added elements into the book that really, for the reader, make it easier to read.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: It breaks up the text, it looks more fun.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of kind of um fun features that you've baked into the book.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: One of those is in the book you call these reflection and response questions.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious what what the value of those is for people who are thinking about their own books.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Why should they think about adding some reflection questions, or maybe you could all also call these action steps or um action points or group discussion questions, whatever you want to call them.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: What is the value of doing that for readers?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my nonfiction book, one of the premises is to get people to slow down and to think more carefully about their own faith life and how they understand scriptures.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So putting a reflection and response was kind of a putting a rest note, if you will, in the book.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a pause inviting people to reflect and to say, how would I personally respond?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the questions um can be kind of softball questions, and some are more pointed as we go.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So each of the books has maybe two or three questions, and then they're followed by that creative connection activity.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right, which is going to be my next, that was gonna be my next question is how how those two things are different and why it's really helpful to have the creative connection activity at the end of each chapter.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So there are 24 chapters overall, and I wanted people to again be able to slow down even further to say, what am I gonna do with the points of this chapter?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: How does that impact me?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna be changed?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that we learn by doing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of the best conversations I've had with friends are while making clay in the studio together.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that the creative connection activity becomes a way to serve readers even more.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I send them to a private URL that's just for readers.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there they have access to about 24 activities, many of them downloads, that they can just download and do as a way to think more deeply about what they've just learned.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's genius.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of feedback have you had from readers on those, from people who have downloaded those activities?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they've gone through them.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: I assume it's been a really positive response.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It has been.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, it's still a little surreal when people come up to you and say, I've read the book and I've done this activity, or here I brought it with me, or someone brought their book to a book signing and it looked like a journal.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It had been, she painted in it, put pictures in it, and really tried to go deeper in her faith.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was at an author talk in Iowa, and someone approached me and said, Our church Bible study is using the book.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually used the activity for, I believe, chapter three.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: We printed that out, and that became a discussion, and we all did that together.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So for group leaders, it's wonderful.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of all baked in, as you said, in that here's the study, but then here's an activity, and the questions are tucked behind every chapter.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that was something that you wanted to do from the beginning, wasn't it?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Is create a book that not just individuals would read, but also that groups could use, which it's kind of like you're baking marketing into the book because if it's designed for groups to use, well, obviously that means groups of people are going to buy the book and read it together.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to recommend it probably, and things like that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I can kind of see the marketer in you, you know, is baking things into this process the whole time, which is genius.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really believe that marketing boils down to serving your audience.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so really being very thoughtful about that so that I gave them more value by providing 24 activities, but I also sent them to my website, which then invites them to connect on my email list so that I can continue to serve them throughout the year, offer other things that um connect with the book.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have some products, you know, like in it, I mentioned a little a prayer point and even a poem.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in the book.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Kent, I have with me today the uh journal.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a spiral journal that has a poem in it that I wrote in the book, as well as a water bottle sticker.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've used that same graphic to make greeting cards.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I sell them in packs.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a way to connect all of that so it doesn't feel um disconnected, but the reader can immerse themselves more in the deeper lessons of the book.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can we talk about your products for a second?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was actually that's on my list of things to ask you about.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you getting these products made and and kind of walk through the process of okay, having them made and what kind of products do you decide you're gonna do and how do people buy them and what storefront are you using?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just the whole shoot and match.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the past four years, I really focused on learning how to build my website and identifying my branding colors and identifying who I want to be as a product.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so Kellybrinkman.com kind of came out of my studio website, which is artandsouls.com.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I realize Art and Souls teaches local classes to people in Washington, Missouri, just out of St.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Louis.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: But Kellybrinkman.com really speaks to my speaking tour and different events that I have throughout the US, New Jersey, Nashville, um, and throughout the Midwest.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I broke those apart.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in that, I built my own store.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to Kellybrinkman.com, there's a store there and you can purchase a number of the items that are mentioned in the book.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's done in a very genuine way, though.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't try to say, how can I sell a lot of things?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what I found is that when I speak at events, I sell well over a thousand dollars worth of merchandise because people so connect with the message and they want a tangible takeaway.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they're priced, you know, a couple of dollars up to my component where you can actually purchase the download of me speaking at an event and show it at your own church or organization so that you have the books, you can have a live speaking event, and I don't even need to be there, that you can do it instantly.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I love that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's genius.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've never actually heard of anybody doing that before.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Selling a video of you speaking at the event for people who can't be there live.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty genius.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just did that in May with Mama Soul Care out of in their revive retreat out of Minnesota.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then they booked me for a follow-up retreat, which will be in January of 2024.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have the unique URL I've sent to them.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: They download the 50-minute talk and then they can show it at their event whenever they're ready.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have um some prep materials.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: They can print some things out ahead of time to still make it engaging.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I do usually ship a box or two of retail materials so people have that chance to have that hands-on experience.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So when you are speaking for uh for a an event or for a conference, and I know every every place is different.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Are they generally open to that?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes if they're recording events, then they want to sell those, and like there's kind of some maybe some funny things about, you know, they want to retain sort of ownership of that recording or something, but that's not been an issue for you.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I host my own event so that I owned all of this.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something I was come I was running into.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I did pay video companies to go out and record me at other events and had that event organizer sign off on it, or I shot people from behind.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my husband's also an attorney, so that helps.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he, you know, he's he's looked through the photo release to make sure that that's really up front.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so when people purchase tickets to a local retreat in the St.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Louis area that was on the registration info, I posted it at the event so that no one was surprised.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it doesn't feature a you know, a tight cameo of anyone, it just kind of gives a broad sense of the audience so that you feel a part of a larger event.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's genius.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that approach.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a really important thing to be able to retain ownership of your own stuff.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, I mean, and frankly, that's one of the downsides of all of my friends in publishing closure ears at this point.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that is one of the downsides of working with the publisher is that somebody else owns your stuff.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that really I've talked to some authors who are like enormously successful, New York Times best-selling authors, and they have huge platforms and all this, but then they can't put out a new edition of their book because they don't have ownership of it, or they can't produce a workbook of it, or they're hamstrung in some other way because they don't actually own the stuff.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's one of the advantages of self-publishing, is you own everything and you can do with it whatever you want, which is great.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I also own or have retained the rights to the ebook, so that will be coming out soon, and that's a way to kind of throw another wave on the book launch.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: So those who are wanting the ebook option can grab that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, my book is has a lot of visual treats in it, and so it's meant, you know, my favorite is the one that you could hold.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the ebook allows me to reach more people in ways in ways that resonate with them.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, where are you getting your products made?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is that through something like Redbubble or one of those companies?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to leave you hanging on that question.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I design them myself and I use Canva primarily.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I like to use local printers because then I can go down and do test one and see what that looks like.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I also support my local community, you know, doing things like using an online site.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I pay a lot in shipping and I'm not sure of the color until it gets here and it may be delayed.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I use my local um providers as much as I as I can.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then are you shipping those products out yourself?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like an order comes in, like you package it up, the packing slip, printing the label, and all that stuff?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have um a team that helps me with that.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of have a mail system that's all set up.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when we receive an order, um, it comes out on um in order form.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we fulfilled the order and ship that off.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes um, if I have just a moment, I'll shoot a personalized video and tell them, hey, I'm stopping at the post office today.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for your order, Trish.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here overlooking the Missouri River.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It will get to you really soon, sending this out special to you.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's another way to connect with a reader via email and and something kind of surprising.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: People don't expect a video message when they receive a retail product.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that's cool.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So are you using Shopify for that?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the system that you use for the like the orders and the printing the stuff and and whatnot?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's through Square, actually.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So Square.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know Square did all that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my platform will um host that.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I use PayPal and Squarespace.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: As a site.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of a combination of all of those work.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So your your Kelly Brinkman site, that's Squarespace?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is your Art and Souls website Squarespace also?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is now, yes.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And what's what's been your experience with Squarespace?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I've thought about switching my KentSanders.net site to Squarespace, actually.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really positive.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I delayed in changing from WordPress to Squarespace a little longer than I should have.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: But at some point you only have the capacity for so much.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I had a pocket of time that I could change everything over, I think it was a year ago last summer, then I I made that whole change.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things the more you use it, the more you understand that you can do.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've looked at a member side of the site too.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it offers a lot of functionality that would otherwise have to be plugins on WordPress.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a little clunky.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've even used it for my uh pottery classes to be able to print a list of people in the class and WordPress.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could never do that very easily.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment, but first, a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 23:16
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• 23:20
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• 23:35
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• 23:46
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• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And now back to the conversation.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were switching things over from WordPress, I don't want to get too in the weeds on the tech stuff, but this is the stuff that writers wrestle with, and that makes us want to beat our head against the wall sometimes.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: When you were doing that, did you have any downtime because you were switching, particularly with email?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you have your email set up, like your your art and souls email, for example, if that's set up through WordPress, then when you switch stuff over to Squarespace, was there any downtime with your email or any switching over issues or any of that kind of jazz?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't with email because mine's through Gmail, and it is a branded um Gmail.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's Kelly B at Kellybrinkman.com.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Goes through Gmail.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that never stopped.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: My website could be created on Squarespace here while my WordPress one was here.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I took screenshots of it before I took it down.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was a period of maybe 36 to 48 hours where it did migrate.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this one fully populated and the WordPress came down.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I just folded that in with my marketing efforts.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully not a lot of folks noticed.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but always getting the website.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got to schedule all the photo shoots and get all of that done and get your branding done ahead of time.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like anything else, just taking it one bit at a time, one task at a time.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was asking about the the Squarespace stuff because I just uh one of my ghostwriting clients actually occasionally I do things like newsletters, blog posts, um, stuff like that for my book clients.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we were setting him up actually on convert kit, right?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh his email marketing stuff, but we had a really difficult time getting his email for his domain set up on Squarespace.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: They had purchased the domain through Google Domains.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so we kind of have, and that was like a separate account.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Then you have the Squarespace stuff, and it was actually, I was shocked at how difficult and complex it was.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I found it set up on Google Workspace.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can purchase the domains through Squarespace.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been times where I've had some difficulty migrating things over, and I have a couple of tech companies that help me.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if I get in a real tight spot, I can pay a little bit and have them help me.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: But through Square or Squarespace, you can have the email platform and all of the emails so that way if people are signing up on your website.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to think, oh, I've got to download all those from Convert Kit, put them in.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's all integrated because I was working on like five different websites.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So now with Squarespace, they're all on one.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's that's gotta be fantastic.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's freed me up.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: So well, I want to ask about some some things that you're doing with marketing and branding with your book because Kelly, as long as I've known you, even this has been back in the days where we actually first connected at St.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Louis Christian College, which doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, I used to teach there and we sort of met there first.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um you have always seemed to be really sharp with the marketing side of things.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And one interesting thing that I wanted to ask you about, actually, a number of things here, is that you give a lot of thought to things like brand colors, which which is not something that writers tend to automatically think about a lot because we we tend to gravitate towards thinking about words.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I noticed even today, I don't know if this is intentional.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I don't know what the shade of of green this is on your book, but like you have on earrings, you have on a necklace, that's sort of that green color.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is that intentional?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you think about these kinds of things even with attire and jewelry and I tend to now?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I made the jewelry, so you know if you make it, it's all out.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can yeah, you can do what you want.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's theory clay, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I tend to um I I did select some branding colors, and for Art and Souls, it was these colors, but which is the teal and kind of a pumpkin orange, and then black comes into that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for Kelly Brinkman, I just um kind of emphasize the orange more and use some teal as well.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I intentionally look at that to make sure that whenever I'm presenting myself as a speaker and as an author, that people recognize me by those colors.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the things that they do.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So on the book itself, you know, I I had a Pinterest board that I shared with the cover designer and interior designer, and she used those colors.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: When I give or assign books at my local bookstore, I tuck in three personalized hand-drawn bookmarks that are really close to those colors as well.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's an added value that only my local store gets to use to encourage people to shop there.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I used another um sticker on the front cover that I actually designed in Canva and had printed locally that says local author signed copy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for your support.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a fun flip book feature.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're flipping through the corner of it, you'll see.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: When I go to book signings, I have my own vinyl backdrop that matches my author photo.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at the author photo on the back, it's I'm standing in front of a brick wall, and this was after two and a half hours.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: This was the last, last 10 minutes with this photo.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the author photo.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when I go to events, I put a brick wall behind me and it's just a vinyl backdrop from Amazon.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I use that or I put it over my table so that people start to recognize that all of this connects and goes together and it starts to look really seamless.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then everything I have kind of coordinates so that it looks well done and professional.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I just continue to assemble items that support my branding.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's really, really cool.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I suppose this comes, it comes somewhat natural to you because you're such a visual, I mean, you're an artist, so you're you're visual sort of by definition.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it does.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And really, in the book, at some point I looked at the beginning of every chapter and it has an icon there that is like a half bowl, which is like the cover of my book, and then it has nine lines going up from it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Originally it didn't have nine, but I asked the designer to change it to nine so that it could um connect with the lesson in the book about the spiritual gifts in Galatians.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So even that is connected, and then that is now a t-shirt and printable cards.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: How do people find out about the products that you have aside from speaking gigs?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is it primarily your email newsletter and your website?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I connect with readers all the time on my website and continue to uh share stories and insights, downloads, kind of some inspirational things they can use throughout the year.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'll see me at writers' workshops too, Kent.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I developed to um encourage young writers.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I get the privilege of serving on our local school board, and I also get to inspire young readers in our community.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I know lots of kids, and I go out and share that, and I've developed some worksheets that go with some of the articles that I've contributed to magazines like Focus on the Family Clubhouse.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So for any of our listeners who they hear you talk about things like book signings and events, but maybe they have not dipped their toe in those waters quite yet.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any suggestions for how to get started with speaking and doing author events or book signings?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know, especially for writers who are more on the introverted side, those things can feel really overwhelming.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: So are there maybe a couple of first steps that somebody could take toward doing that?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: First, I think you just come from a genuine heart and you've written a book to share with people and encourage them or maybe reveal a new insight.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: So start somewhere that you're comfortable.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: I started with our local bookstore, really as a way to encourage sales from them locally and ask them if they would host an author talk at the library.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so they brought my books over to the library, which was accessible to all people.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I started there.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I packed the house a little bit with some friends that I knew.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as I shared marketing pieces, I ended up knowing a lot of people in that room.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a trick your listeners can use to be sure that they're comfortable.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: From there, I fanned out to do more author talks in the area or in other communities where I already had a strong connection or strong relationships.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I always see a friendly person in the crowd or bring someone along with me.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you can always just speak right to that person, kind of put them um where you know that they'll be in the audience, and that always helps too.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like um like planning somebody a little bit just to kind of prime the pump, so to speak.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just say can you please sit right here where I can see, which is to my right.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that tends to be where most spoke speakers look.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I put them, you know, a couple rows back on the right if I know I'm kind of nervous.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh then if I get nervous, I just look at them and smile and just share what I'm passionate about, which is the book.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now you mentioned um an insert that you that you put inside the book to ask for book reviews.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And when you sent me a copy of the book, um, I thought that was genius.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: I actually I don't have it here with me today.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: I should have brought it with me because I made sure to keep it in my folder of stuff in my home office where this is like things not to throw away, you know, things to make sure and keep.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm wondering if you can walk through that.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I know this is an audio podcast.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we do use some clips of this on social media, but for those who are listening, describe what is actually on that sheet because I thought the way that you handled it was really fantastic.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just another way to connect with readers.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important to ask for reviews so that um online websites see that you're getting reviews and that encourages more sales, which is really reaching more people and encouraging more people.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a um, I put six of these up on a sheet and it's a little card that I wrote using some font.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I've just chose two fonts, and then that's my branded font.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: It says, thanks for reading, art for the soul, growing your faith through creativity, your support makes a difference.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a QR code that says go here to leave a book review.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then it says, get more writings like this, join my newsletter, and it has a separate QR code.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So on my website, I actually have a separate landing page just for the book.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: So this QR code will send them there.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: It says it's Kellybrinkman.com backslash book, and it gives them a link to purchase the book, and then it gives some reviews and asks for their review.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I find giving some sample reviews helps people think, oh, well, this is not so hard.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can share a sentence or two.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then they oftentimes will post one or they can comment and leave it with me, and I copy those from online sites for my own website to let people know readers' experience.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's genius.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think just having systems for all this makes it less intimidating for the typical author.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because we we all know that we should be doing all these things, but then not knowing how to get started can really be a challenge.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I love how you have just thought this out and made it really, really simple and you're very strategic about this.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: So at some point, you should you should be doing like author coaching on this book marketing and branding stuff because uh for most of us, this stuff feels really stressful.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love sharing it.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so grateful again for the opportunity to share with your audience.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still among them.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll continue to be listening in and getting ideas to share.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: What is this that you ultimately want to build with your author career, Kelly?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got a lot of really cool things going on.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing live courses, you're an amazing artist, you have this really cool book, you're doing doing speaking.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like five years from now, what do you want to have built with all this, just out of curiosity?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love speaking with live audiences the most and being in front of people and getting to connect with them and share stories and watching them have that moment where they say, Oh, okay, I understand this on a deeper level.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to speak to more audiences is really where my heart is.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: So five years from now, I'll be standing at a table, having close to a half dozen books in front of me that I've written.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on a children's book and I'm working on a devotional book as well.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And have those in front of me as well as a lot of different products that connect with the book to give people that touch point.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really care, honestly, how much I sell the products for.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really care about connecting with the reader and giving them something that will change the way they do life every day.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: For you, what would what is the thing that you would really like people to do?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, would it be, okay, buy lots of products or buy lots of copies of the book, maybe give those out, take your classes.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have kind of a I guess what I'm trying to ask is is is there a set funnel that you have?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like people sign up for your newsletter and then maybe they buy a product, maybe then maybe they'll buy the book, and then maybe they'll do a course or come to an event.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what's kind of the the chain of things that you would like to move people along ideally?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I do have a sequence that I seem I think seems logical as people are experiencing the book.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's really comes from that genuine place of wanting to serve people.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, first it's that probably reaching them on social media.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they see some posts, they they think, oh, that's that's something interesting.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: They get to know more, go to the website and discover the book, discover some of the products and say, Oh, I resonate with that, join the newsletter.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then there is a formal sales funnel, if you will, um, that takes them on a journey of how to discover some of the products, but really how to use them in their own life and how to slow down and be more thoughtful and purposeful with their own faith growth.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to meet them at an event.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I would love it if somewhere along the line they said, I'm getting to know this person a little bit better.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: She should come speak at our women's event coming up.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: We should have her for the spring revival.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we should have her out this fall and then get to come and meet in person, share all of those items at tables, but really just to connect with them one-on-one.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's people don't typically hire a speaker for an event unless they first know them.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: They know what they're about, they know their brand, they know their messaging.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so taking them, first of all, along those kind of small steps with you is really important.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a vetting process, you know, when you become a speaker, um, sometimes speakers are vetted by traditional publishing houses.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: In my case, um, being self-published, I have to allow them to vet me through the whole process.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So some of that is kind of putting yourself out there and letting yourself be known.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the things I love about self-publishing is that they can get to new to do that in ways that I construct.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: In the book, also I put like hand-drawn items and really give them a sense of who I am and really my aim, which is to continue to encourage people visually to um continue to grow in their faith.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Holly, this has been a blast.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually taken a bunch of notes while we're uh whether they're legible or not is a different story uh once we get off the call.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I would love for readers to not only pick up a copy of your book, but also uh take a look at all the the products you have, your website, which is done really well, plus your live classes, which is another cool thing that most authors don't really offer is hey, come to my space and take an actual class with me.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, how can listeners find out more about the book, your classes, your products, all the cool things that you're doing?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Great, thank you.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, just going to my site, kellybrinkman.com.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: All the links are there at the top of the page.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're invited to uh subscribe to the newsletter to continue to get encouragement throughout the year.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a link to purchasing the book.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sensitive to our local uh bookstores.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so you always have the opportunity to shop locally or to go to bookshop and to shop at your own local store.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can purchase online as well.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is printed through Amazon through the Kindle Direct Publishing or KDP.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So certainly it's available on Amazon as well.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly, thanks again for making time to do this conversation.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so cool to see all these years of work that you've put into this book come to fruition as well as all the assets and other kinds of things that you have around this.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing a really fantastic job, and I think you're a really wonderful model for authors who don't just want to write a book, but they want to create an experience for their readers, which you've really done well.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you again.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: This has been great.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's where my heart is to uh reach readers.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you're like me, you probably took a ton of notes during that conversation.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly shared a lot of wisdom about publishing, writing, habits, the process of putting our book together, things to bake into a book to make it interesting for the reader, creative tips, really good information on book marketing and publishing and all kinds of things.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Kelly, for making the time to be a guest today.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: This was such a fun and interesting conversation.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, my friends who are listening, thank you.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate your time and listening to this podcast.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that you love this conversation with Kelly as much as I did.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: I encourage you to go check out Kelly's websites, which are Kellybrinkman.com, and that's a Brinkman with two ends at the end, Kellybrinkman.com and also her other site, which is artsandsouls.com.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: There are links to both of those sites in the show notes.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And most of all, go grab a copy of her book.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's so fun, it's so well written and so well done, and it has an awesome cover.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I love to support my friends who have books out there in the world, and this is certainly no exception.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is really going to speak to your soul and give you a much needed boost of creativity, I'm sure.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.