Latest / The Splitting Atoms Podcast / Ep 11 | Curiosity as a Constant with Pat Dalzell

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Ep 11 | Curiosity as a Constant with Pat Dalzell · The Splitting Atoms Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: People should be doing what they love doing, you know, or what they're comfortable doing, where their intrigue draws them.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: What becomes possible when we embrace lifelong learning and allow our curiosity to continually expand what's possible?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: Some careers are built by following a single path.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Others are built by embracing new challenges, learning unfamiliar disciplines, and discovering how seemingly different experiences can come together in unexpected ways.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: Today, Pat Dalzell shares how a career spanning finance, trading, pensions, communications, and Canada's nuclear industry has been shaped by a willingness to keep learning.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: And how that mindset has allowed him to connect people, ideas, and opportunities in ways he never imagined.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Join me as I Split Addams with Pat Dalzell.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Pat, good morning.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Splitting Addams Podcast Studio.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're very happy that you're here.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for driving in from Toronto today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: You weren't traveling, you came from home.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, yeah, came directly from home and happy to be here this morning.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you and I have been in close proximity in many rooms, many spaces.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've stood in the same conversations, but we have not had very many one-on-one discussions.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: So as I was preparing for this and coming in this morning, I thought you either very much trust me and that I'm a good conversationalist and that I won't let you down, or you're very confident in your own abilities that even if I am a dud in conversation, you can carry and do the bulk of the work.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So well, you know what?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I see everything on LinkedIn that you're doing.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew I had to be here.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was an honor.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's an honor to be here.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we're very excited to have you here, and I want to dive in on our conversation because we have a lot to get to.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: We're both talkers.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: We both, I think, enjoy the gift of gab, so we'll uh they have a clock set up there for me and we'll make sure we stay online.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I already warned them we might go over a little bit, so I'm excited.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: And as we jump in, a brief overview of Bruce Power, the organization that you work for, just a 60-second high-level introduction of who Bruce Power is for maybe some of the audience that doesn't already know.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, of course.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So Bruce Power, uh, we are the private uh nuclear operator in Ontario.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We operate uh on the shores of Lake Huron uh in Tiverton, um in between uh King Carden and Port Elgin, Soggine Shores, um, where we produce about a third of Ontario's electricity.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we are a two-station, eight reactor facility.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: We produce a lot of electricity for the province of Ontario, and we will for many decades to come.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're currently in the midst of uh of our life extension program, uh, where we're essentially replacing all the major components of six of the eight reactors, and ideally doing the remaining two uh that were already refurbished.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in so we're looking to do that in the uh in the 40s.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the amazing thing about what we're doing is this refurbishment program, this very significant infrastructure investment, is uh is delivering against its commitments to the people of Ontario.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So delivering ahead of schedule and uh and under budget consistently now through two reactors and uh and looking forward to completing this amazing work.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, from this facility in Tiverton, Ontario, we produce a lot of medical isotopes that go to treat cancer and uh and sterilize medical devices.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So an amazing story for uh for a small community in rural Ontario.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's so much to the nuclear industry that a lot of people don't really realize yet.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we're gonna get into some of that as we go, but it's something that excites both you and I, the fact that for the first time in a really long time, we're looking at those storylines as an industry and saying, how do we get those out?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: How do we do things like even like what we're doing here today and start transcending our sector so that those outside of the sector can really appreciate the industry and everything that goes on because not only does it impact their lives, whether they know it or not, it's just fun and it's interesting and it's it's cool stuff that we do here.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So there's so many great storylines.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know we're gonna touch on a few of them as we go through our conversation today.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And now what about your role within?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: You are the VP of Corporate Affairs and Market Development for Bruce Power.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh tell me a little bit about that, about your your job, your role.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Right.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I I get to work with the groups that are uh that are involved in internal communications at the site, uh.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: All the creative work that we do, the you know, signage, videos, all the social media work we do.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we work with the community relations team.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that also um that also includes uh you know our visitor center, which is uh which is open year-round and right now offering bus tours.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully you're able to come uh experience that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um also the the market development aspect of of the job is is an interesting one where we interact and offer the electricity into the system.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So a good uh good interface between the system operator, which is called the IESO, and uh as well as Hydro One, who uh who are responsible for the distribution in certain circumstances uh cases in Ontario, as well as the broader transmission system in Ontario.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um oh, I should mention also the government relations aspect of the job, which is which is some fun one.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of really neat stuff uh within Bruce Power and uh and lots of external interfaces, which is a great aspect of the job.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: You must love that because you're a little bit like me, where we uh we're generalists in our own way.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: We like to kind of have our eyes and ears on multiple things at the same time.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And your role really gives you a position to do that, uh the community and the government, and then turning back into the business side of it and really understanding where you're wanting to go and this the strategic side that comes.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that must be fun for someone like yourself who you're you're naturally just curious, interested, and um maybe like to have different things going all at once.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you know, you I I think the thing I love most about this job is you never know what you're gonna be doing from one day to the next or what issue you're gonna be tackling or what might come up.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in addition to all the planning and the things you think you want to do in the year ahead, there's always new stuff that's coming up, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's new curveballs that are thrown at you, um, you know, trying to align with public policy priorities, uh, trying to make sure that uh people are well informed, know what's going on in this space, especially at a at this time uh you know in the history of nuclear, where there really is a lot of wind in our sails as an industry, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of opportunity right now.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's asking questions, whether it's policymakers or the general public, or even internally and within the community.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Folks are interested in what's going on in nuclear and being able to discuss and and talk about the uh you know the amazing things and attributes of this industry, it's it's it's a privilege and it's it's very exciting and always evolving.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something new going on.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that aspect of the job.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell You mentioned the bus tours.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: I have a funny bus tour story.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I have indeed gone on two bus tours.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: They were, I think, I want to say, as sad as it is, maybe seven or eight years ago now, early on in my nuclear journey.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: And the first one that I went on, I went with um my boss at the time, Jill Root, who worked with me at the Business Enterprise Center.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: I reported to her.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so we went out on a this bus tour.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the first time there was so many bald eagles at the outflows.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I was in heaven because anyone who knows me knows I have a little obsession with bald eagles.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I loved it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: And a few weeks later, my mother and my aunt were uh visiting me in Port Elgin and I said, we have to do the bus tour.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's really interesting, it's really cool.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: But also, there are all these bald eagles.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I talked to this big game about, oh, you're good, it's amazing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many of them because you know the water is warm and it's just this like little cooker and they they love it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Not one bald eagle.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: So my my mum and aunt thought I was a big fat liar because there was not one bald eagle in the sky or doing anything that day.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a love and hate with the bus tours.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: They set me up.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, it's funny you say that because I love I love birds in general, um, but bald eagles to me are just fascinating.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're so big and so impressive to see.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've only sort of seen a handful of them over the years.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep hearing from folks who have either gone on uh on uh you know feather harvests or or just seeing them at site, depending on the time of the year, depending on what's going on, you can see them all over the place.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I have never seen one on site in all the time.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've been trying to see them, but amazing animals.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Maybe they all showed up for that one bus tour day that I went through.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, this girl's crazy.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're going.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh do you're a golfer?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Do you golf?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell I I I used to golf.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I love golf.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not very good at it, but I love doing it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh really after my daughter was born, I kind of stepped back from golf.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I used to love getting out there.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point I'm lucky if I play a scramble or two a season.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell There's a that's the nice thing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: The golf um tournaments that we have put on by organizations like the Organization of Canadian Nuclear Industry, they're a great excuse to get out on the course uh in busy lives and be like, well, it's for work, though.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: But there is a uh course here, River's Edge in uh in Cambridge, and it's just a nine-hole course, small, but it's right on the river's edge, coincidentally, as its name would suggest, and there's a bald eagle nest there.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: So we quite frequently uh see them out there.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: And the one time I was walking and a bald eagle feather was on, which of course is so special.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I I still have that feather, it sits up, but so maybe you just got to golf more and then you'll see.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's my excuse to get out on the run on the uh the course more often.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so we look at your job now with Bruce Power and everything you're doing, but you did not start in the nuclear sector.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: You started your career in the finance industry on Bay Street.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell That's right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So walk me through that, because that's a totally different time and space, and uh I can't imagine the different kind of ecosystem that you would have moved through.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course I want to know how did the transition happened, but but first, just that starting point on Bay Street.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, well, I mean, just going back, um I and I was born and raised and went to university in uh in Montreal.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and right after graduating in from from finance uh with a finance degree, I uh I moved to Toronto for what was basically a summer job.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: That summer job got extended, and then eventually I applied to a full-time job, and I worked for a number of years, you know, basically on Bay Street in a type of trading.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh it was called securities lending.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that for for a while.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was it was called trading, but it wasn't really the kind of trading I wanted to do.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually I got an opportunity to actually trade uh derivatives in energy.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And actually the group that I ended up joining, uh they were basically just setting up a company.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was I was the first employee they'd they'd ever hired, and they were essentially trying to fill the void that Enron left when they got out of their business.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So again, energy electricity derivatives was what they focused on, and and that's really my first exposure to energy markets at all.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked at uh at this hedge fund for a number of years.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I started off on a 24-hour desk, so that whole idea of shift work was somewhat familiar to me when I actually got to Bruce.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But before that, I'd I'd done that for a period of time.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: After the financial crisis, um the uh hedge fund I was working at uh unfortunately was forced to close.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of our investors had to reallocate capital, and we just weren't able to sustain the business.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we had at this hedge fund essentially developed some software that we had looked to license to other groups and had a relationship with Bruce Power.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, long story short, a few years later, a number of us from the hedge fund, including uh my boss and I, were uh added to the Bruce Power team as they looked to actually participate in financial and physical markets in the northeast of the United States.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we sort of brought our experience and knowledge from the hedge fund over to Bruce Power, uh, worked on uh as a derivatives trader at Bruce Power for a number of years, um and uh and a few years in I got the opportunity to work with our pension uh we have a uh you know a large defined benefit pension plan at Bruce Power, and you know it was um it was a really neat experience, very much in line with my finance background, and and through that experience, I uh I I got to uh I got to work very closely with our our CFO, Kevin Kelly, um and uh and got to know James Cognac and and uh his work was uh was focused in in corporate affairs, which I knew very little about.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh James and I got to got to know each other and uh I started working with him probably about eight or nine years ago now, and and uh from knowing almost nothing uh you know, even close to what corporate affairs was, I uh I got to sort of be his what we called a senior strategist and got involved in lots of stuff.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, when when I worked in the uh in the trading group, we were sort of in a way isolated from the nuclear business.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So while I worked for Bruce Power for it must have been four years with that group, I um I wasn't really involved in the nuclear side of things.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: There, you know, it was a bit compartmentalized.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: We were based in Toronto, we did have some trading in at uh at site, but I wasn't getting the the full picture of what was really happening in Bruce Power.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Next thing you know, I was just immersed into it, and I absolutely uh fell in love with it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's such a there's so much to learn, so much to know, such a great history, and then such a compelling future for this industry.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I totally immersed myself in it, and uh.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I went from really not not even having the concept of a corporate affairs type role in my mind to just fully embracing it, jumping on board and and uh and really getting my arms around what Bruce Power was, what the nuclear industry represented.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was at a time where really environmental priorities were becoming a big concern.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth is you're not gonna meet climate change goals without embracing nuclear.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that reality really sunk in for me.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the story of nuclear is much broader than that, and that's but that's really the hook that that got me in and that I just ran with at that point.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, getting to work with all these diverse groups, and of course, some of that role has expanded into market development and broader relationships.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's just been an incredible experience.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's uh it's a bit of a transition from uh from a finance role, a trader role, for example, to being in this corporate affairs role.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow the transition really made a lot of sense at the time.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I think I think the context too when I first got into this was largely around the price of electricity, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: This was back when you know bills started going up, largely related to some of the investments in renewables, but that dynamic between the rate pair and the cost of building out new generation became very uh very significant, right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so having a good understanding of that was an important element to this role.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And my trading background, where you know I got the experience of finding where electricity was cheaper and moving to where it was more expensive, which is how you make money trading by low, sell high, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that gave me sort of the background knowledge that I needed to help communicate and share the importance of pricing dynamics and finding ways to properly position ourselves as an industry and a company within that broader uh context of pricing dynamics.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: What was the what interests me about all of it is I have such a maybe a Hollywood-shaped vision of what finance would be like, and I obviously know what our industry is like.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: And even though they're both high pressure, high-stakes uh sectors a lot on the line, one to me is so much calmer, like in nuclear, even though yeah, I know.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it depends on the day.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: But in nuclear, I feel like we take this approach of just because the safety is so important and really checks and balances and moving through things, but I wouldn't I wouldn't categorize nuclear as like that fast-paced, harsh kind of environment that maybe is incorrectly living in my head from movies like Wolf on Wall Street and things like that.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I know different times, different days.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: But how what was it like for you going through such a switch for the first little while?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Was it kind of the same because you were still in Toronto, I'm guessing still kind of living the same life, and you were sequestered away from the nuclear side of it because there was that physical, that proximity barrier between being on site and the work that you were doing?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell It's a really good question because there was a significant difference.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will say I kind of talked about where you know I got my start, which was one of the big banks on Bay Street, and that was a very different environment.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't some of the some of the things like there were things that were said and done in that environment that would never happen today at most most professional office spaces, right?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't, you know, like um it was just very different.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was super competitive for sure.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: There were there were times where people would collaborate and work together, but really it was kind of you know, you um you eat what you kill mentality in a way, right?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there was less collaboration, more of that uh more of that competitive tension between even coworkers, uh let alone managers, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was very different.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when I did make that move and w worked at a hedge fund where it was really a startup, um that sort of approach and that competitive tension kind of went away because we were trying to start something from scratch, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first six months that I worked at this hedge fund, we didn't trade a single thing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: We were just getting all set up to do it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, building something together and collaborating and realizing that it's a small business.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I was the first person that they hired.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, everybody who got hired after that, we we tried to sort of bring them in and have a team mentality.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the owners and leaders of that company uh were great at forming that kind of culture, and it reshaped my thinking certainly about what a good corporate culture should be.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it it was let it was it wasn't dog eat dog.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't eat what you kill, it was let's work together and make something great.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think we brought a lot of that uh to Bruce Power where that sort of spirit already existed, and that's what they wanted to bring into the trading group.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's let's we've got something, let's make it better.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And as I got into the corporate affairs role later, I realized this is a company-wide uh way of thinking, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're always looking for a new innovative way of doing things.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're always looking at a way to improve uh where they're at.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a, you know, it really is a culture of constant improvement, constant uh quest for excellence.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that um that that cultural shift is y you need it, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually do think that the whole Bay Street Trader thing is changing as well.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're realizing that they need to find ways to get people working together instead of against each other.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but really that that change was was significant.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and you know, I I see it and live it every day right now, like working together, collaborating.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not well, how can I do better than this person or how can I replace my manager here?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's how do we work together to make the b the best of our industry?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we see that across the industry for that matter.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You've heard the term competimates, right?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a term that gets tossed around every so often.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that's really how it works right now, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: We um years ago, this industry was we weren't telling our story.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were kind of keeping it on the down low, doing our jobs and doing what we could to stay uh a going concern.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, we're seeing that when you work together and you innovate together as an industry, you know, us, the suppliers, the OPG, other uh collaborators all around the world right now are working together to make the most of this industry, and it's working.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel like in many industries, and finance is not the only one.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there are natural industries that kind of pit people against one another.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think of real estate sometimes and really any high-stakes industry like that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: But in ours, whereas in so many other industries, the this fight to be better comes from that competition of verses.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: In our industry, there is still that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it'd be unrealistic to say there aren't people who who are in our industry who are do come at it that way and and moments that maybe create that verses feeling.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: But overall, where we strive for excellence and where that pressure cooker kind of comes for us to always be raising our standards as individuals as well as a a sector, an industry, a group of I say collaboration because I put the the collaboration before the competition.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I I told Mike um so Mike Renchak used to say it all of the time, previous CEO of Bruce Power of Force.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I told him I struggle to say competimates.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I just made it something that I I could say more easily, and he said that's fine.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I I have his approval.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um But ours comes from this ecosystem of the pressure of how do we all get better to move us forward, and almost the situations that we're in and the demand for energy for you know clean sources of energy, affordable energy, isotopes.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: It forces us as an industry to say, let's pull our boots out, bootstraps out bootstraps.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Up together, not you versus me, but us versus yesterday.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I like that about it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds very wishwashy, but it it really is kind of as it is.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Again, acknowledging there's individual situations or or those um anecdotal times, but as an industry, we strive for that together.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and it it it works, it pays off, right?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at the moment we're at right now, right, where there's you know, Ontario really is leading the way uh globally on nuclear, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of in terms of um in terms of opportunity, in terms of investment, in terms of uh in terms of um success.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it wasn't that long ago that nobody would have believed that that success was possible for this industry.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's not a secret that the refurbishments of units one and two uh didn't go all that well, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of ended up falling in line with the former um rhetoric around nuclear being that it's always over budget, it's never on time.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we had challenges.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: We also knew in Ontario that we had we had to get it right if we wanted to keep the lights on in Ontario, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: There were 10 reactors that were reaching the end of their lives, and the opportunity was to refurbish them and operate them out for another 35 years.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um with the experience of the most recent refurbishments not going well.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you do as an industry?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you uh does Bruce Power kind of go it alone and try and figure out how to do it better?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Does OPG repeat the same mistakes that that we made as they started their refurbishments at Darlington with Unit 2?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like we saw the opportunity to collaborate, take lessons learned from units one and two at our site, share them and work collaboratively with OPG, and uh and you know that that refurbishment went well.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, and this isn't just you know a little bit of collaboration.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is people working at each other's sites, sharing their uh operational experience or OPEX, and then learning from that and benefiting from it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as they learned on Unit 2, they shared back their learnings as we worked, as we started our refurbishment on Unit 6.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this back and forth collaboration, um well, you could, you know, you you would sort of argue that if there were competitors and then as nuclear operators, it'd be between OPG and Bruce Power.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we both knew that we couldn't get this done alone.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if either of us failed, the whole industry would fail, right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like one black eye would severely hamper any future investment.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that collaboration, uh and that I shouldn't just say between the two operators, you know, the whole supply chain got behind this, right?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And made sure that they were delivering on time so that we could deliver on time.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the workforce in Ontario, same story, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: We've worked so closely with all the skilled trades uh as well as our own workforce to make sure that this ended up being a success and created the opportunities that we needed it to be.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's worked.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have the opportunities to build further.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell It's so funny how it's it really is, is it's the people that stepped up to the plate.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: When things didn't go well and we could have said, well, you know, it just didn't go well, I feel like the individuals within our industry said, well, not on our watch.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna we're gonna get better, we're gonna do better.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like could you imagine Coca-Cola and Pepsi trading and sending people over to their respective factories or sites or marketing team or whatever it is the way that we sometimes do.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not to say that we don't see really great battles, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Technology battles that are are being fought out, or um engineering firms going for the same bid.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's done in a way, though, where we're still very friendly about it, but just that natural competition makes sure everyone is never resting on their laurels and getting better and getting smarter and recruiting the top talent and doing things like this.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not like we don't have competition in our ecosystem.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's just we like harness it for this to for it to live where it should live, and then we come together on the other side of that when it serves us as an industry to say, you know, how do we get better?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I look so often, I'm a Formula One fan.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing I love about that sport and reminds me of our industry is that those teams go out on the track weekend after weekend and they battle it out, technology-wise, driver-wise, sponsorship-wise, everything.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: But then they all turn together in the driver's meetings and in in you know um FIA meetings or whatever it may be and say, but how do we keep coming together now?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now that the weekend's over and the driver's standings are what they are, how do we come together to drive F1 forward to make sure we are getting Netflix deals and sponsorship agreements and better airtime and safer driving conditions for our drivers.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel our industry is very good at that and is getting better even at doing that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I love that kind of parallel.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just the best way for me that I think of it in my mind is we're those F1 teams where, yeah, we want to go win those bids and those contracts and get that work for our workforce as an organization, but then we always turn to each other and say, well, what about everyone else?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like what how are we all moving forward now in alignment and not always just trying to cut each other in and out of things?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I do like that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: But for you as an individual, what are some of the skill sets that were maybe chiseled out in that environment of Bay Street, especially in the one where it maybe wasn't the best environment, and then going into a team where you really are building something together that you felt formed in that time.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you know how I know you and I are both nuclear junkies?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've talked with anyone else on this podcast about as much about nuclear as you and I are right now.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: We stay in like the human lane, but you can tell you and I are infectiously little ambassadors for the industry because we naturally just go.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: I know we're dangerous for each other in this format.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um but so going back to you, what skill sets did you really feel in that day that were like carved out of stone in the good environment, in the bad environment, all of it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I think in the bad environment, we'll call it the bad environment.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the the the one thing that uh was clear to me is when you when you've got a good work ethic, um you can get things done.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I never minded um starting really early, working really late, uh doing stuff on weekends.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was uh it uh especially because I enjoyed the results of it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you I think the lesson that that got to me early, especially in sort of the the tougher days, and again, it was sort of more of a competitive tension within that workspace was you know, if you put in the put in the effort, you'll get the reward.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that stuck with me, that that that also played out in in subsequent roles.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I still bring that with me.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think what I added, and I alluded to it before, right, was the collaboration.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: So great that you work, but then you also have to work with other people.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that takes effort and that takes uh patience and that takes you know what it really takes?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it takes it takes um learning and understanding what other people are are good at and harnessing their strengths, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sort of bringing that um idea of yeah, it's it's great that you can work hard, but you can't then criticize your coworkers, your peers, anybody else for not working as hard as you, because chances are they're working just as hard, probably, in a different way, or in the way that they're more comfortable, or in an area that they're better suited towards advancing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's about having that work ethic, but then not um not not putting down other people for not doing working at the same level or area that you're focused on, or doing it the same way you would do it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because everybody has something to bring to the table, and the more they're able to enjoy the work they're doing or embrace the work they're doing the way they want to do it, the more they'll contribute to that overall team.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a whole team kind of pushing together towards the same direction in by harnessing their own strengths, you get better results.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you know I think that's that's sort of an iterative step-by-step kind of learnings that I got to in terms of my thoughts as a manager.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: But and it kind of came, as you describe it, from the bad to the good to broadening the experience.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh Everybody's different.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Because you really went from an environment early in your finance days where it was dog-eat dog and maybe not always the most nurturing or uh welcoming or kind environment.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying every workplace has to be that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes there's this over-em-emphasis that everything has to be warm and fuzzy in a work environment.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm not saying that.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: There has to be that kind of middle ground where it's still a professional environment.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: But what a change from going to that where it almost forces you to really think about yourself and how what do I get out of this?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: How do I, you know, uh find success in this kind of um r space, and then going into one where you did have to start honing in your skill set of not only observing what other people are good at, but also do you ever find it's important to take a step back.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm guessing you're quite an ambitious person and you you really love your career and growing your career.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you have done well and and put in the time and effort.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm the same.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I think it's it's hard to take a step back and realize not all people want that either.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: So they're very good at what they're good at and they have um skill sets that they bring, but not everyone also wants to put in that much effort because they just have a different road in front of them that they want to travel.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: So actually accepting everyone's skill sets and really finding ways, especially now in leadership roles, to get the most out of them and make sure that they're really um excelling in the ways that they can and should be.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: But also really having grace that not everyone wants the same things and so we have to be able to nurture people as they need to be nurtured, understanding them and their motivators.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's a hard lesson to learn.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes it's very easy for us to think, well, why wouldn't everyone kind of want what I want out of this and why wouldn't they want to go full force?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: But not everyone does.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it doesn't mean that they don't have highly valuable contributions to make into the same team.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: They just might not want to be staying and working from 7.30 to 7.30 like people who are willing to do that to kind of get to where they want to go.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think that's a I think that's a good way to describe it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I would even say it's not so much ambition or not.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's really, you know I would describe it as you gotta let people um drive towards what they love doing, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you know, I I've heard the uh the expression, you know, do do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Never work a day in a life.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, I I don't know that I go that far.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: But but I would say if you really want to get the most out of people, or you know, that you want to people contributing at their utmost to the broader team, people should be doing what they love doing, you know, or what they're comfortable doing, or what they sort of where their intrigue draws them.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've um I've uh I've sort of had a number of mentors in my life um who who've done just that, right?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: In a way, kind of taking a bit of a step back and letting me almost uh drive where my career ought to be or finding my comfort zones.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not that you want people to necessarily always stay in their comfort zone.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I found there's a lot of value in getting outside your comfort zone.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I you know when I went from that Bay Street role to a small hedge fund role, it was completely night and day, and it was completely uncomfortable.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was going into something I had zero knowledge of going in.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you come out being a quote-unquote expert in this area, right?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't go in with that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that lack of comfort as you transition from one thing to the next, in a way, can be very motivating, right?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wanted to know everything I could about this particular subject.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think that's that's one of the things that you have to you have to embrace in your teammates, right?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you have to let them follow their own curiosity, find the answers that they want, because then people are self-motivated, and then you're gonna get real results, and then you're gonna drive a team effort forward, right?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have that natural drive in you and you're just doing what your manager says to do, like print this report, get it done by so-and-so, and you have no idea why you're doing it or what it'll what purpose it'll serve, where's the motivation in that, right?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: But if you kind of uh if you if you work with people and embrace their strengths and their curiosity, then people will go the extra mile because they want to, because they want to know more.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: They want to contribute.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: They know what they're contributing to, and they and they're willing to make it put in the time and effort.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I I kind of described that first aspect um uh that I learned at on Bay Street as as work ethic.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was more just about, you know, natural curiosity.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you're curious about something and you want to contribute to something, you do it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you can find the right things for the right people, you the same results will come from those people.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Are you a naturally curious person?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I for sure am, um probably to an annoying extent if people are around me, because I'm the person who, if we're talking about something, um, not maybe rudely in a conversation, but I'll immediately go and Google and learn more and find out more if I'm watching a movie and something comes up, a historic moment or place or person, I'll pause the movie if, you know, it's just me and the cats watching.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I will immediately go and research that name or place or thing or moment in time, or was that a real place?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: Are you like that?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like has that been kind of a part of you?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, I think I've I've pretty much always been that way.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that that's definitely a part of me.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I look back on, you know, my my parents would always say, like, I would just ask question after question, but why, dad?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: But why does that work that way, Dad?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this is before the Internet, so uh he just had to have all the all the uh answers on the in the back of his phone.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Your pence had to become Google.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is my ChatGPT before ChatGPT was a thing.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, like you know, my uh my wife actually kind of jokes about this because I um I I'm not a social media person in general.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll look through LinkedIn, as I was mentioning before.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: But beyond that, I'm not, you know, I won't use Instagram much or whatever else.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I've never been a big phone person.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: But now that I have these AI, this AI on my phone, like to Google things, I'll just have full-on conversation.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: My wife says I'm always on the phone now, looking down, talking to it, saying, yeah, but why does this happen?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or can you explain how that works exactly?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's been a big part of my um my personality for years.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love the fact that you can get answers to almost anything right now.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love digging into things, trying to figure out what makes things tick.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I I um you mentioned Mike Renchik before.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he and he and James Scogniak, um who's my boss, kind of gave me the opportunity to um to take a three-month um sort of like introduction to operations course a few years back.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is right after COVID, actually.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or actually probably more in the middle of the COVID phases, I think.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Seems like a good time because a lot of home time.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, i it it wasn't really like I think we were past the first wave and we were just about to start the second wave.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So things had kind of eased up.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: We did have to wear masks in class and stuff, but I got to learn about um you know a good number of the systems within the plant.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: We had we took three months to learn about it.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Our um you know, the the the course basically had us go right from the the lowest levels within the plant right to the roof and everything in between.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a great learning experience.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I loved every aspect of it.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: I loved learning how the control room worked.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember watching, you know, as found exercises where you know the uh the ANOs would all get together and manage a, you know, uh uh a transient situation and and and it was just it was amazing to me.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like a kid in a candy store learning all this stuff.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you look very happy now, even just thinking about it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta get- Yeah.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and and then to get to sort of share that with people as we now tour the plant or walk through it at a high level anyway, what certain things do.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm sort of not happy until I do understand how something works or why we have to do things.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that that natural curiosity uh certainly got satisfied in a lot of ways when I got that operational introduction to operations anyway.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great experience.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because you would have to really go through that even looking back at your career a little bit, this swap over, because eventually, even if when you first joined Bruce Power, you were in kind of this finance world still.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: Once you go over into corporate affairs, now you're nuclear.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's no more, you know, wall kind of around you and you're one thing.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: You are nuclear now.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is you and I uh spoke once about kind of our our thoughts on on curiosity.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I had said to you, I know that curiosity can be a personal attribute and something that maybe some people have more than the others.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: But where I had said to you, I almost see it as it's something that can develop into a skill set.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: And if you can work that curio curiosity muscle and find ways to become more curious, like what questions am I asking today, or what for me it's it doesn't even have to be something I'm interested in.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: If someone mentions, you know, this happens in construction and that's how they do that.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Googling, you know, what's the difference between concrete and cement and all the like just whatever it is, I'm just naturally curious.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: But that is a skill set that you can kind of hone in.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're not maybe naturally wired that way, you can develop it just like any other skill because it does become an asset, in my opinion, to be curious, because you didn't have to do that operational course.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: You you asked to do that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing that I'm learning with more and more people who have found success or their definition of success is they all share a lot of common traits, and one of them is being curious.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know for all of them if they were naturally that way, or if it's just something they realize through their career, the more questions I ask and the more answers I get, the more capable I am to move forward and to achieve and to grow and then to lead.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had described it as yes, it's a it's an attribute, but I think it's a skill set that we can all kind of harness to become an asset for our careers.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell You know what?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know where I think the skill is uh and and I think the curiosity is something that you can definitely develop.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um Kurt Weigel at Bruce Power, if you know Kurt, but he um he always or often, and now people have just started um you know using this expression uh which was his, I'll give it to, I'll give him props for it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's at the end of something he says, so what?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or he'll he'll he'll be explaining something and say, and so here's the so what?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So he always know always already knows what the question is.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is that is the skill, right?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's one thing to have information, but so what?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's what do you do with the information?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or you've just learned some new development.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what should I do with that news?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: What should I do with this opportunity?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a public policy shift, or there's some new polling out, so what?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do with it?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's um you know there's a a new um a new supplier in town, what do we do with it?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can be almost anything.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have to kind of coach yourself to ask the question, so what?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or what can I do with this information, or how is this of value to others, and have I covered everybody and continue challenging yourself.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is really the next level of that skill.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would agree.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's it's yeah, you can get information, you can learn a lot, but if you don't do something with it, you're not getting the full value out of out of that uh out of that learning.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do challenge these things for yourself and you do set you know uh expectations of so what, that forces you into often into action, or or a decision as to why you're not taking action on something.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: But taking action is the key to ultimately being successful, whether it's nuclear or anything else, it's you know, it's great, fine and dandy to talk and write papers and come up with theories of how things could do be done, let's say for energy planning, right?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we you know, there's always going to be somebody out there saying, oh, well, the cost of this is less than the cost of that.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: But so what?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: What can you really do to make sure that you're keeping the lights on, which is which is the priority from a system planning perspective, right?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Keeping the lights on in an affordable way, in a way that's safe and uh and that people can count on.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's the so what at the end of the day.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: How do you so what?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Great that you have all this information, but what do you do with it?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: What action do you take as a result of that?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Almost like curiosity being the tool that gets you to understanding an application.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's what you're describing, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Is for me part of the so what is well, so what does that tell me about the person giving the information or the situation giving the information?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: How do I understand that more fully?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then as you have mentioned and explained in further detail there, now how do I apply myself to moving?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Forward with that information.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: So curiosity is the tool that can start really helping you understand things better and then have a strategy to move forward.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Tool in the toolbox.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus in the toolbox.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus Or it's just an annoying thing where if a random streak comes up on a movie, I'll pause the movie and Google it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: Just useless information like camels have three eyelids.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Sandstorms.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: You can Google it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because they sandstorms, so they they need really sturdy things people will learn.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: There you go.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: Things they never wanted to learn, but that they are now learning on the Splitting Adams podcast.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: So speaking of Google and learning new things, you have a very funny Google story that you had to do for work.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it so I'm going to get you to share your Google search story.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus Yeah, you've you've heard this one.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Once in a while I have told this one, the odd speaking engagement, just to bring a little levity to things.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if um I'll always so we've been producing isotopes for for years.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's sort of used in our our um, you know, it's produced in in basically our normal operations essentially.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got a byproduct essentially of creating nuclear energy.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have these uh we have these adjuster rods that kind of go in and out of the core to balance out reactivity, essentially.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when we take those reactors down for regular maintenance outages, we essentially harvest these adjuster rods, which are made of cobalt.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they then become cobalt-60, um, which uh when it's harvested and then you know processed and shipped around the world, uh.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh single-use medical devices, even uh even mosquitoes, it sterilizes them so that they can't spread the Zika virus.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's got it it's had uh applications for for years.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a long-lived isotope.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh a gamma emitter uh that's probably good for you know several years after it's harvested.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it sits in the reactor for a couple years at a time.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: If anyone's listening that is not as uh acquainted with the nuclear world as we are, I feel like we're causing some Google searches now.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to AI about it.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: I call ChatGPT Gary.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's explode, right?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the big thing.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody says they're just gonna ask loud.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's uh we at one point um the research reactor at uh Chalk River, the NRU, uh, was going to be shut down.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was planned for shutdown in 2018.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: And our partners at Nordeon, who are the ones who actually collect the Cobalt 60 and ship it around the world, um, had identified uh a need for um uh high-specific activity cobalt-60 that was produced at the NRU that was going to be disappearing.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this cobalt-60 is used in something called the gamma knife.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can picture sort of this helmet with 200 individual beams, the individual beams don't do anything to the surrounding tissue, but where they meet at a focal point, they act as this non-invasive knife that can essentially cut out a brain tumor without having to cut into a person's head.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Which is insane.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which is amazing, right?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Nordeon were basically saying that when the NRU closed, they would not have this gamma knife cobalt-60 available.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: They would lose this amazing asset.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: That's right.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we worked with Nordeon at Bruce Power to tweak our production of Cobalt-60.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that instead of just being regular adjuster rods, they were uh they were essentially configured differently and we could now produce the high-specific activity Cobalt-60, the gamma knife cobalt-60 used to fight brain tumors.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: When we made that shift and we started talking about the fight against cancer, it really did change uh the way we viewed what we do as a business.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, from the the workforce to the corporate culture, we realized that we're not just producing electricity, we're actually now fighting cancer.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a game changer for our industry, frankly, but certainly for Bruce Power.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, then we started asking ourselves, okay, well, if the NRU closing meant that there wasn't going to be Cobalt-60, were there other isotopes that we ought to look at?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I remember being in uh in an office with with James and Mike, and um they they just asked the question, like, we should look at uh whether we should produce uh Molly, which is you know short form for saying molybdenum-99.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's used for all kinds of imaging and circulatory systems and so on.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, in a typical me kind of way, I'm like, I'm on it.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to my computer and I had no idea what they were talking about, and I just Googled right away, how do you make MOLY?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I came up with something completely different.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't Google that, by the way, because that's uh the Chat GPT will think you're asking about something other than an imaging agent.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, it might say something along the lines of you you've you know hit our um our limits or term, whatever it's-I can't uh think of what it called, but you know, when it kind of says you shouldn't be asking that and going against our regulations.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um you know, years later, uh we did end up um uh bringing online a short-term isotope, uh, which is uh you know similar uh practice to to what MOLLE would be.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Lutetium-177, of course, used to treat uh prostate cancer.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, out of that uh out of that uh uh one funny question with a Google search that was inappropriate, uh it started us down a path where um you know we realized that as an industry we have a lot more to offer than electricity.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and right now in Canada, we've really embraced that aspect of the story, right?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Producing uh medical isotopes that can be used to fight all kinds of cancer, and going forward they're going to be used to fight even more types of cancer.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's it's a game changer for the healthcare system, but certainly what we do as an industry and what we do as a company.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great part of the story.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell You talk about finding things that people are interested in and how that naturally kind of you know creates this space for curiosity with them within them and interest and going the extra mile and so forth.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny because I find most people they don't even know that our industry is doing some of these things.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're still working on getting that story out there to the masses.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know anyone who's not interested in fighting that fight and learning more, right?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: Creating energy, maybe, yeah, sure.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: Even though we all live on our phones, we all, you know, we rely on data centers and things like that to power our uh our chats with Gary and and Claude.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_03: But who doesn't want to fight cancer and save for sure a loved one?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because really there's very few of us that wouldn't have been touched by cancer.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the stories that you start thinking, you know what, the extra mile doesn't look that long.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go down it together, because we have these little superhero moments within our industry that are going to really sound again, I know, very um cliche, but change the world, right?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: Change change the way we combat something.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it's incredible.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: And what must that feel like for someone like you?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like you didn't get into this industry even obviously knowing these storylines or even knowing anything about nuclear.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: But now knowing you're in this role and you're guiding others to it, and you you serve as an ambassador, which we'll talk about here a little bit, and you're such an advocate for the sector, how does that feel for you knowing you're going into work every day?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have children?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a lot of people?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've got a daughter, Chloe.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's uh 14, she's almost 15.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like knowing that that's kind of the world you're creating for her, right?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: I have cats, so I'm creating they're they're gonna live in the same world that I am, really, when we think about it.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: But having a daughter and knowing you're developing something that might change her future, gotta feel good.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell It's uh it it it feels good.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love telling her the story.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you kind of hit on uh a couple things when you when you in the preamble to that, where you you you said like not everybody knows some of this broader story.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, generally speaking, most people uh don't really know a ton about their electricity system, right?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And most people certainly don't know a lot about nuclear.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: We are trying to change that, but it you know it it moves sort of at a glacier pace in a lot of ways, right?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even you know, going back a few years, if you had mentioned the isotopes, I would have told you uh that's a um uh a baseball team in Springfield and The Simpsons, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what they were called.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were called the isotopes.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's about all I knew of the term isotopes.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think we're we're we're we're making that change.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as it becomes uh a bigger story, um people are learning more about nuclear.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, we we often say with when it comes to isotopes, like, you know, it's um it's you know a fraction of our business, but it's uh it's half of what we talk about at this point.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is such a compelling element to the story.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's it's extremely motivating for me to know um the change that we are making that way.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love the Lutetium story.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, it's uh we've been producing it only for for a few years, and you know, we continue to meet the requirements for it in terms of delivery, making sure that we are getting it shipped on time.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that matters because you know electricity is one thing and people count on it.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're fighting uh you know a serious illness like cancer, you're really counting on it, right?
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's it's so important to make sure that we're maintaining the availability of supply of this.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the reason lutetium is used right now for prostate cancer is because they found the right molecule that binds to the prostate cancer cells.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so even after it's metastasized, it can still hunt down prostate cancer cells anywhere in the body, in the back, elsewhere, and bring the dose of of uh beta radiation from lutetium right to the cancer cell.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Because they're bonded together.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's it acts almost as a little ship.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: The molecule finds the right marker in the cancer cell, and they stick together and deliver the dose that way.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's an oversimplification of how it works, but kind of like a heat-sinking missile.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as you find the right molecules to bind to the right cancer, you know, this is an opportunity to treat all kinds of cancers.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And ideally, as the medical system gets caught up or finds these new molecules and new ways to treat cancer with isotopes, our role in providing those isotopes is going to become that much more important, right?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like right now we've got sort of essentially two um, I'll call them tubes or pipes uh on one reactor.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've got eight reactors with all kinds of ports.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're able to scale this up in a way that will um, you know, hopefully uh be a game changer in terms of supply.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: We we hope that the real bottleneck right now is just supply, because we can fill that gap.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the opportunity.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know the the fact that we're looking at creating, you know, good jobs for decades through the refurbishment, through the potential for Bruce C, all while fighting cancer, it it's such an amazing story.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned my daughter, am I proud?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to her about it all the time, and then she rolls her eyes at me.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Having said that, having said that, when she's asked on camera, because she's been to the visitor center for a bus tour.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Which everyone should do.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: It is a really fun place.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it really fun.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: You might even see a bald eagle.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: She got put on the spot and was asked what her favorite part of nuclear was, and she immediately talked about the isotopes in fighting cancer.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's got to be a proud dad moment then.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's so few industries where, like you said, the energy, it's obviously important and vital and necessary.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: But there's something about helping fight in cancer that is so acute, like you can really see where it's going in that moment and the life that it is directly impacting.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's a different level of motivator there that I think very few industries can really turn to.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just one of our stories, really, right?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: We look at a lot of the other work that's being done and we have all of these little uh narratives that yeah, you can really rally behind.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that it's sometimes easy to forget.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: For people listening to this that are in the industry, sometimes we get so focused on the work we have to do and what we're going in to do.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe like John McCorrey and I talked about how even if you love work, it doesn't mean you love all aspects.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: So there are days where we all kind of get up and think, oh, I don't want to go in.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: I wish it was, you know, still Sunday or ideally Saturday, because then I got Sunday still.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: But when you wake up and you try to remind yourself I'm not going into work to do X, Y, and Z, I'm going into work to help an organization fight cancer, make it possible.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: It just is this kind of unifying thing that a lot of industries can draw in, but maybe not all.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's cool that we have that in our back pocket for anyone working in this industry and a reminder of the role we're playing in.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care what your job is, right?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: Any job you do in nuclear is helping make that possible.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that's pretty cool.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell No, that's it's a really good point.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think actually for for the most part, people uh don't uh often take the time to step back and think about what they're contributing to, right?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Once in a while, it's just I think it's good practice to kind of sit back and think, yeah, I contributed to that, or yeah, I made this a reality.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it's easy to get lost in the day-to-day or the minutiae or you know, not not see the not see the trees for the forest.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um or seeing only the trees instead of the forest for the Trevor Burrus, just or seeing the trees.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you take the time and really look at the impact you might be having on something and what that means in the broader picture, I think that's hugely motivating.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: And actually it can be rewarding in a way.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like you c it can feel it gives you that ability to feel good about what you're doing and a sense of accomplishment, even though the day-to-day might be a grind from time to time.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you take a step back and you think about what you're actually achieving through that grind, it can be really motivating.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good way to look at it.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: And more people should do that more often, including me, because you know, I I'm I'm the I'm probably the the first to just kind of get into what I got to get into that day or or work through whatever challenges or opportunities or planning we have to execute.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but rarely, and it's usually actually probably more when you when you have a bit of a chance to step away from that day-to-day where you actually really do realize it.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or you have somebody you're working with remind you, hey, you know, this was a significant uh impact you guys achieved with this.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: And taking a step back to appreciate that, I think, is is huge.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's so and it's-I mean, I think it's natural even in our personal lives, right?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: We are we're so focused on the logistics of our days and what we're doing, or what we want next, right?
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: What's next, what's the the end result that I need to rush towards that it's hard to sometimes wake up, like even on my worst day at a very basic level.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: I wake up with a family who loves me and is very supportive in a safe country, I know where all my drinking water and food is coming from.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like just on a basic level, it's so easy for us to walk away.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_03: Or like I have a bad back.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing makes you appreciate a good back and a happy spine until you have the spine that thinks it fought in the Civil War and is like 98 years old because you you cracked it falling off a horse just once.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you so you start appreciating the the good things.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's it was funny, I I was just out in San Francisco at the time that we're filming this.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was flying out to visit a friend, Sonny Har, who was formerly with Laurentis Energy.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, he's now with WSP down in the States, but his wife works for Google.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I was out there visiting him and his family, uh Kamal, his wife, brought me to Google for a tour.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: And as we're walking around, I mean, you talk about a corporate culture, like it's insane.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's everything you think it would be in the movies, that's what it is.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's a T-Rex in the plex.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's um games everywhere and like volleyball courts and the food, the cafeterias they have are incredible.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so as we're going through, of course, Kamal who goes every day and and works at Google is listening to me, just oh, is that amazing.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, and I can't believe they did this.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they really put the resources behind creating this community.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's summer markets and everything.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: And she had said to me, you know, it's really easy for me to come to work every day and forget this, right?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then you see it through the eyes of someone who reminds you, oh yeah, this is pretty special.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we need more of that.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe it's the job of leaders within our industry to very consciously take breaks, take moments, and take opportunities to remind their teams what we get to do is pretty cool, and this is your part in it, and this is how you're directing it.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you said, we get it going in our day or we get working at Google and we forget the environment that we're in and the impact that we're having and how we are playing a part in that.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good point.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I would actually I kind of I alluded it to I alluded to it before, but I think one of the things that that can be the most motivating uh is uh understanding the why uh of what you're doing.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Simon Sinek.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the famous star with the why.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you know if you don't know why you're doing something or why somebody's asking you to do something, how are you supposed to do it well?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and that ultimately leads to micromanaging, that ultimately leads to a dissatisfaction from your peers, from your team, from your manager, right?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you know the why and you can wrap your head around what the ultimate goal is for for work on any particular project, or more broadly through a year, then you'll do a good job, right?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know what you're doing and why you're doing it.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: If there isn't a level of two-way communication at various levels of communication, you know, from senior management right down straight through to uh any of the workforce, you're not gonna get the results that you want because people are just gonna try to tick boxes off, be unmotivated, and uh plow through the work as fast as they can.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: If they have a sense of what they're trying to accomplish and are given the latitude to do the best job and empower them to do the job that you really want as an end result, you'll get great results from it, right?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would actually argue that you know the the the flashy stuff, and I think that's kind of what you're hearing from from people that that you're describing at Google, like some of this flashy stuff is less important than what you're trying to accomplish as a work goal, right?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or what you're trying to accomplish as an overall corporate culture uh or a company or an industry.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're trying to get toward a bigger picture.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're you know, it's it's you know, I don't want to describe it as you're just a cog in the machine, but in a lot of ways that's sort of what you want to be doing, understanding your role and contributing to the overall value of what a company is putting forward or an industry is putting forward so that you can expand that and make it better.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I everybody obviously would would love to, you know, um I don't know, get get get something like a pool table uh within that within your work uh environment.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: There's no T-Rex.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think real satisfaction comes from knowing what it is you're contributing to and then being empowered to contribute to it the way you want to contribute to it.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love the what struck me with the Google thing, because you are right.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think the fact that where I work has a sleep pod is gonna make me be a better worker.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: And in most cases, if there's no substance behind that, it makes worse workers, right?
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: You have distractions, you have all of these things that would take away.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: What I love about what Google does and what so many organizations do for their employees is the fact that they put so much of their real investment and time and money into preparing that space for their workers.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same as like the safety culture that organizations like Bruce Power develop, right?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Really taking the time to make sure everyone's getting home safe and that we're really thinking this through.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many ways that we show up and we show our workforce we care about you.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that to me was just i it's so visually um obvious at a place like Google.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_03: But the real motivator has to come from, as you've said, understanding what am I really doing here.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes the tasks are not fun.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: Most people don't have a job where you're getting to go and do the fun, flashy things all the time.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: But if you understand and you can pull back the curtain on, if I do X, Y, and Z, A, B, C gets to happen over here, and then that turns into one, two, three over here, and before we know it, we're changing the world.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because I can see all of the cogs spinning and connecting and moving together.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the big picture that we need to make sure people are understanding is yes, you're doing this, but it enables this.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: And an appreciation of what others are doing and how how we're supporting them and vice versa to all drive us forward.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, maybe a better example is an orchestra, right?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, where you actually have um all the components kind of doing their individual pieces.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: They they know what their contribution has to be.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and but any individual piece can't go it alone.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: It really has to be collaborative to form the overall piece of music that you're trying to listen to, right?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that maybe that's the analogy I'd use.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I mean, I've spent a lot of time up at Bruce Power.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_03: I lived in Port Oregon for 10 years.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: I still play ball up there.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: I still try to golf when there's time.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that I really appreciate about the whole community, whether it's kind of the bubble that Bruce Power, an employer like Bruce Power, creates.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_03: Is it's not you don't go into work and then you drive away from that purpose.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: When you drive home, when you're taking your kid to a place like the brand new aquatic center in Sogging Shores and organize sports that are sponsored by Bruce Power and its supply chain, or things happening in Indigenous communities that are being supported by the organization, you get to leave work and see how the efforts of your work are directly showing up within this bubble.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's very hard to do because you don't like I don't leave work here and and you know walk across Waterloo Park and get to see just what I'm doing and the impact it's having.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas a a community like Stalking Shores and King Carden and Southampton and all of these places, they get to go home and continue to see that that work showing up in the daily lives of themselves, their family, their friends, their children.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of cool.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell It is kind of cool, right?
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that's I I think that's one of the the you know the unique value attributes of nuclear, right?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's such a significant um uh job creator, right?
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you have so many families and uh and neighbors who are directly impacted through jobs at the Bruce site that it does have that ripple effect.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, there's obviously a vested interest associated with that, with investing in the community, right?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: To support the community and to be an active uh player in the community.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes sense because the people in those communities are the people powering the stations, right?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's a it's a it's uh one of the attributes of nuclear, and one of the neat things about being in rural Ontario as opposed to being, you know, sort of in the more metropolitan areas of Ontario.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know it's a huge uh a huge opportunity, and it's resulted ultimately in you know, we do a lot of polling, and uh and what we've seen uh through some of the more recent polling, we were very public about it, uh, was massive support for uh Bruce C, right?
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the next sort of evolution of work at the site.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, we've got Bruce A and Bruce B looking at doing a third station, Bruce C, which would make us uh you know, by far the largest uh nuclear site in all the world.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and support, you know, intuitively, somebody hearing, well, what would the community think about uh a whole new nuclear station being built, you know, intuitively you might think, oh, well, maybe there's risk around that, or maybe people wouldn't be receptive to it.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like over nine in ten, nine out of ten people are supportive because it they understand nuclear, they're comfortable with nuclear, and they know how important it is in terms of contribution to overall economic benefit, job creation, and then investment right in the community.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you know it's it's it's a huge uh opportunity that a company like ours has, and it's one that we take very seriously and we're very proud of.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's and we I mean we haven't even touched on that, like the growth and the, you know, maybe my next question is going to be to you about what's exciting you most here.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_03: But um when you really think of what the doors that that could unleash and the new development and the new technology that's coming, not only with um, you know, kind of full builds of units like Bruce C, which I joked, so Mike Runchek came on this podcast a few years ago when I was kind of testing it out.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we talked about, of course, Bruce C.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I joked with him that it's really nice that they've named it after me.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like you know, the his wife, of course, her her name also starts with a C, so I said he might get in trouble if if so I said, I know you can't agree with me on air, but uh he joked, and then it's the same thing.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: I also joked with him in that same conversation that Bruce Power's economic impact on the Canadian landscape.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I compared that one to the impact of the Taylor Swift eras tour in the U.S.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: I said, you know, Bruce is doing for Canada what Taylor's doing for the U.S.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: And he chuckled, he laughed.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: But um when you really think of that, that is actually pretty extraordinaire.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: The the fact that we could potentially have the world's largest nuclear site here, that we're leading um the charge on this, and so many other parts of the world are looking to Canada and how we're doing this, and the fact, and again, we're gonna run out of time, but there's so many great things to talk about.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_03: We're doing it for the first time ever in the world with true um relationships and in including our indigenous community members right from the beginning.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're world leaders in having that sort of collaboration with indigenous peoples who are contributing and supporting us as we move forward.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, well the first thing I want to say to that is um, you know, even if we were the, you know, got to build Bruce C and became the largest nuclear facility in the world, I still don't think that compares to the power of Taylor Swift.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know that we can't.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you're in my good graces.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I look back and uh the first time I really uh had the opportunity to um uh uh work with SAN was around the Isotope Partnership.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_03: And uh got to And that is, of course, for anyone who doesn't know, that's Sogin Ojibwe Nation.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's correct.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the first time uh we uh I got to interact directly with uh some of the leadership at uh the Sogine Ojibwe Nation was around the Isotope Partnership.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um we uh you know we we were exploring different potential partnerships or economic development opportunities and landed on uh isotope partnership.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you can you can you can see why there'd be natural alignment.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's something that anybody would be interested in in uh in helping with in terms of the fight against cancer.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we we uh went to Ottawa along with uh the Saun and we're we're kind of pushing for Ottawa to actually support this partnership.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as a result, it created uh an economic development opportunity for the SAN.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've since expanded that through uh further investment backed by the province and uh and have managed to create a nice stream of economic value.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that in a lot of ways forms sort of the the template for what can be expanded going forward in into other nuclear projects, including our own, right?
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's uh it's it's certainly a neat uh partnership around innovation right on the site, fighting cancer together, and uh and finding ways to align interests, right, that uh that ultimately uh benefit the communities as well as our organizations.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we couldn't be prouder.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus Yeah.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it's something to be proud of.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that um whether we look at Indigenous nations or or further than that, we're really not leaving anyone behind.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the future of nuclear really is quite inclusive uh in how it's being developed and who it's going to support.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a fun thing.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_03: And now I want to touch very quickly here on you do a lot of work educating people.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Your curiosity about nuclear has now put you into this space where you can be a real advocate for it.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you show up and you talk and you teach.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_03: What um how important do you think it is right now for our industry to keep getting better at their skill sets at talking to those outside of the industry?
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because that can be a little bit of a gap in our industry.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_03: We're very good at talking to each other.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're getting better at turning around and talking to people who don't already know us.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think talking is is important.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to uh it's good to make sure that you're educating people.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the end of the day, the biggest um the biggest advocacy tool that we could ever lean on is uh safety performance, right?
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and making sure that we're delivering against our commitments.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we uh if we had uh had you know had taken sort of the the refurbishment program that we have at our site or that uh that OPG is doing at their Darlington site uh and and sort of botched it and just validated all the previous thoughts that people had about over budget and late and delays and nuclear just can't be done on time, then we'd have lost the opportunity.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, the fact that we're delivering ahead of schedule and delivering on budget that helps protect ratepayers.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: It gives policymakers the confidence that they can back uh this industry and expand on the industry, and it uh it creates the sort of uh the the the wind in our sails that we need to continue being successful.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it works.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it, you know, what we're seeing as a result of that success is more questions, but if we weren't successful at what we're doing, we wouldn't be able to just talk through it.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um just putting a spin on an industry or what we're doing will never get us to where we need to get.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Only success leads to that opportunity.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's really what we're leaning in on.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it really starts at home within the industry, uh, focused on success, making sure that first that we're doing the you know, keeping the lights on with our normal operations, then making sure that we're achieving these major suc uh major infrastructure projects ahead of schedule and on time, or ahead of schedule and under budget, and uh and then creating an opportunity for new nuclear, right?
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh which is the which is sort of you know, it's it's what we're getting toward, you know, through other success.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's less about talking, more about making sure that we're achieving the kind of project success that we need to deliver to ratepayers.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, as long as we're a good news story as an industry and we're managing uh ratepayer priorities and we're managing to keep the lights on and we're keeping our communities safe, um that's the real opportunity.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then that gives us an opportunity to talk about these great things.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if if we didn't have the results to back what we're saying, we wouldn't have much to say.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell And even if we did, no one would believe us.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think like in a world these days where really I think we've lost a lot of faith in leaders, in in I don't know, institutions maybe.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus Would you say it's fair that we as an or as a as a nuclear industry, we're very accountable to the things that we say and do, and we work very, very hard to be trustworthy.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's no choice, right?
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I talked about the reasons for why we compete uh with within the industry.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's because we know we have to disprove all of the myths that are out there about this industry.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have to demonstrate that this technology is safe and that we can deliver.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's so important.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Without that kind of success, we wouldn't have this kind of opportunity.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that we're always just one mistake away from losing the support that we have from the community and the broader population.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's what keeps us motivated.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the number one value is safety first.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um that cascades into success and and uh and performance.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny when when Andy Forsyth was in the podcast studio with me, he told the example of driving on site, right?
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_03: How you have to drive the speed limit.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And they're very diligent about that because if you can't do those things, right, and uh he used a few examples, but one was if you can't have people drive safely on site and be accountable to that speed limit, how can we then expect them and have this culture of being accountable on the big things?
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just that same thing.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's our mentality of not only how we act, but how we hold ourselves accountable as individuals and as an industry to deliver, to show up, and to continue giving everyone a reason to love us, not fear us or be nervous or worried about us.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I like that.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_03: Now, would it be fair to say what's exciting you most about the industry right now is some of that new growth, that new development, the new technologies that are coming?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's you know, I um uh I uh I don't like to, you know, um forecast all kinds of uh huge expansion.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's commitments to tripling nuclear and and all that.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, the thing I'm most excited about is uh is first of all continuing to make sure that we um maintain uh you know the the safety standards that we that we do stick to, because again, without that safety, uh you're everything's at risk, right?
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and of course the fact that we're progressing through uh these projects, again, that leads to success.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_00: This this option or opportunity to build a whole new station that'll operate for the better part of a century, that's you know that's a game changer, right?
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we you know uh we have the opportunity and now we have to get it over the over the the finish line, right?
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_00: We I kind of describe it as we need to continue to being successful, continue to be successful so that we can get past that tipping point, right?
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have a lot of um wind in our sales, we have a lot of success behind us, we've got a lot of uh all levels of government are supporting this work right now.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Our community couldn't be more um behind what we're doing.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make sure that we maintain that momentum and get past the the uh the tipping point to make sure that we get shovels in the ground and something built, because that's the opportunity right now, and that's what I'm absolutely excited about.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell That's amazing.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say it's it's your curiosity that you naturally had has served you well in your career.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_03: It has uh enabled you to to maybe continue to do to be digging and see others in a different way or to embrace new opportunities, but there is something really magical about being curious, I would say.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Being a curious person.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think so.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's uh Matt, to your point, it's it's served me well.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I just damn curious.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love learning new things.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love um being in the mix on discussions, on decision making.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love sharing my perspective on what we're what what's going on based on my understanding of things.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I also like hearing other people's perspectives on things, right?
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, curiosity is one thing, and uh I will see being open to other per other people's perspectives on things is is and being open to changing your perspective, right?
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that you're always willing to adapt and learn and change direction if you have to at the last minute.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, all that comes together uh to sort of remind me of when I was just a kid, uh trying to figure out how I was going to build a deck with my dad, right?
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like, what do we do here?
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are the next steps and can't wait to get it done.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, you you sit down, have a nice cold uh drink of water, sitting back on the deck and enjoy what you've done.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: The fruits of your labor and your curiosity.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And that's where that's where you embrace that sitting back and appreciating what everybody is driving towards.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's you know that's where the curiosity comes together with uh you know the satisfaction of getting something done.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's also just fun.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, it is fun.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_03: I find it's fun to be curious and to know these random little things and and to uh explore corners that you might not otherwise if you if you kind of turned away from your curiosity.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_03: So speaking of fun, it has been truly my pleasure having you in the studio today.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for coming and spending some time with us this morning in the Splitting Adams Studio.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell I was happy being here.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh really enjoy your pro or your podcast.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for having me on and look forward to uh the next time.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_03: Wonderful.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Pat.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us for this conversation.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_03: The Splitting Adams Podcast is produced by Splitting Adams Media, a division of the Carolyn Corporation.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_03: All of our conversations are made possible through the support of our founding partner, the Nuclear Innovation Institute.