Latest / Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball / Maryland Pitching Coach Jimmy Jackson on NIL, the Transfer Portal & How Recruiting Has Changed | Ep. 190

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Maryland Pitching Coach Jimmy Jackson on NIL, the Transfer Portal & How Recruiting Has Changed | Ep. 190 · Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball

• 0:02
  Speaker A: Hey, parents and coaches, are your kids using the right glove? The most important skill for youth athletes to learn is how to play proper catch. The problem is most youth gloves are made with bad leather and are too big for small hands. They actually make it harder to play catch. That's why former Major League Baseball shortstop Kevin Smith created Cali Gloves. Cali gloves are crafted from 100% Japanese kip leather and are the perfect size for kids. All Cali gloves come with palm slits, finger loops and elastic wrist lacing that encourage proper hand placement. The right closing patterns and give kids more confidence to go make plays. Cali Gloves even allow parents to break in the glove without stretching out the fit. It's the glove Kevin wishes he had growing up and the glove all his teammates want for their kids. Visit caligloves.com to learn more and help your kids play better catch. Cali Gloves K a l I gloves.com
• 1:10
  Speaker B: welcome to this week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kirikidis, joined by my Wonderful Co host, Mr. Keith Glasser. How we doing, sir?
• 1:18
  Speaker C: Great.
• 1:19
  Speaker A: How are you?
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Good. We'll get a guest on. We've been chatting up a little bit pre pod here, but we're fired up to have him back. Why don't you want to give the intro here?
• 1:30
  Speaker C: Sure.
• 1:30
  Speaker A: Longtime friend of mine, one of my, my second coaching job, his first and he is still in the game. He is a return guest. His original, he originally was on back in May of 2023. I can't believe we've been doing this for this long. But we are joined by the now Maryland, then JMU, but now Maryland pitching coach, Mr. Jimmy Jackson. Jimmy, thanks for coming on again, Bob.
• 2:00
  Speaker C: I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I can tell you've been doing this a long time because you got a real microphone. It's awesome.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: You know, we're three years in bottom.
• 2:10
  Speaker B: We, we bought ourselves microphones. We're, we're fired up to have you on, man. Appreciate the time.
• 2:17
  Speaker C: No, I appreciate it very much.
• 2:20
  Speaker B: Before we get into college baseball talk, there was a certain major league baseball game on last night that had a couple of your former players in it, which I think is pretty cool with Kevin Kelly and, and also Mr. Chase the water. Like you've obviously you recruited those guys, you coach those guys. What's it like to watch those guys compete at that level and like, what can you say about those guys that help get them there?
• 2:56
  Speaker C: Honestly, I think it's, it's the same things we look at recruiting, right? It's like their personalities, their positivity. Always listen. No matter what coach it was, it could have been a tech guy that was helping us out. If, you know, if they spoke, they were listening. They were sponges forever. They still are, you know, but I think they're also guys that just. They know they belong there as well. Like not in a. Not in a bad way, but, you know, sometimes I think it can come off a little pompous, for lack of better words. But they also have that a little bit. You know, you hear a lot of coaches say, like, that kid's got it, or something like that. They both have it. And it's funny because they couldn't be more polar opposite people. Kevin's a lot quieter. You know, if you look back at his rookie season, they did a lot of the rookie hazing stuff with him, and he just laughs it up. You know, he's carrying hello Kitty book bags to the bullpen and just smiling the whole way where I think if you did that to Chase, he would be angry as heck having to do something like that. I'm sure they did something, but I'm sure he was not happy about it. But they're polar opposite people as far as outgoing and introvert, extrovert type of people. But as far as work ethic and things like that, I mean, they're the same. They just, they, they grind every day.
• 4:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, I assume those trades come in handy when you're trying to evaluate guys now. So. No, I just thought that was. Yeah, that was pretty cool. I mean, I remember Kevin when he was in high school, because I was at William Mary at the time, and to predict that he was going to get a massive strikeout in the alcs, I think would have been a little bit of a stretch, but at the time. But it's. It's a cool way to think about, like, how guys develop and how they just continue to chip away at the process. And you look up and that guy's getting out in the biggest spots that you can possibly pitch in. Is anything like. His story to me is kind of. It was kind of cool that, you know, he was. Wasn't the most highly recruited kid, wasn't a super high draft pick.
• 5:17
  Speaker C: Yeah, he was. He was a converted catcher to pitcher in high school. By the time coach Ike got the job at jmu, I was hired later in the summer. I want to say it was our first or second fall camp we ever did. He was a kid that emailed just saying he had interest, sent a video. It looked awesome. We Tried to push him to come to camp so we could see him. And it was like, hey man, let's try to get you here. He came in, I think he faced six batters, struck out five or six. Offered him on the spot, committed. I don't know. It was either that day or the next day. All the way through college, he kind of took the steps like he was a freshman All American as a reliever, became our Sunday or Saturday starter as a sophomore. Went to the Cape, led the Cape in ERA. That summer. Coach Kelly Nicholson took a chance on him when nobody was really willing to give him a spot. Because when we were trying to explain he's 88 to 90 throws from two slots, some guys, you know, still hadn't heard of him or anything. And to Kelly's credit, he just believed us and said, sure, I'll take him. Ended up leading the Cape in era. That kind of put him on the map with about five or six teams that were big into analytics at the time. You know, kind of starting out back then. Had a great junior season for us. Went somewhere in the teens, 12, 15 rounds, something like that. Yeah. And then he was actually rule fived because he used to be with the Guardians, which would have been even crazier, have them both there, but he was with them. He came up through their system at the beginning and got Rule 5. Tampa took him and, you know, he's been in the big leagues pretty much for the last three, four seasons, something like that. But yeah, same idea. He's just one of those kids that, like, he knows who he is. He listens really well. If Tampa says, hey, throw these two pitches, only throw these three pitches, like he's just going to say, yes, sir, and do it. And it's, it's clearly working.
• 7:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, cool story. On that same kind of note, right? You're talking about him being so coachable and just being ready to do whatever's asked of him. What are, what are some of your non negotiables in the recruiting process? They could be physical, whatever, you know, your selection, your answer. But what are some of the things that are really important to you and are kind of non negotiable?
• 7:46
  Speaker C: I think. Well, work ethic is definitely one. Like you usually tell a lot by people's parents or families or guardians, who, whoever's around them. Their high school coaches are very important to me. I think they know the kids the best more often than not. I mean, I'm probably a little biased because I coached three years of high school before I got into College coaching. But I know, you know, you're around them, you know, the high school coaches around them a lot more. So they tend to know the way they truly act, which I hate to say that sometimes because it sounds bad. It's nothing against summer ball or fall ball because from a competition standpoint, we got to see him there. But anyway, going back to that, like, I just think that's ultra important is hearing what the high school coach has to say. So once you check out the family, the high school coach, you know, you can evaluate them in the summer and fall more often. That's kind of the main things for us. You know, I mean, the athletic ability has to be there, but at the same time, you're. You're with high school kids, you're looking so much down the road as far as that upside goes. It more falls into their background more than it does ability at that point.
• 8:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we were talking about one of your freshmen, one of our guys, and kind of how awesome the family he comes from is and how I think that that plays a big role in his ability to transition into really super competitive college baseball. And I think it's one of the biggest learning curves that, that most kids have is one, the expectation of how much they're going to have to do, like what the day to day looks like and how much of a change that is. And then two, dealing with the mental side of like, I might not be the best guy anymore. And that can be like a real, a real culture shock. Is that what are some of the bigger learning curves you think there are for freshmen?
• 9:46
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's huge. I mean, I don't know if Keith remembers or not, but one of the years we were coaching together at Siena, it's actually probably the first time I ever gave like a speech to our team, kind of by myself, I think it was. Or Keith might have been with me, I don't know. But basically we were playing really bad. And I just remember telling our older guys, like, hey, we need to meet. And it was basically around that because I felt like every single guy was pressing. And I tried to throw that out there. I think it was like early spring of going around the room and asking every single hitter, even the ones that are on the bench, like, where'd you hit in high school? What was your spot in the batting order? And every Single guy says, 1, 2, 3, 4. Nobody bats below fourth, that they're playing at Division 1 level, not in high school. Every pitcher, what'd you do? Starting pitcher, of course, you're not a reliever in high school and then pitching in Division 1, that just doesn't happen. And I think I did that for that reason. And I mean, you know, I don't know if it did anything or not, but I did it for that reason because guys do struggle so much when they get to college, and we had a lot of young guys and they just expect to be the guy still. Or it's like, well, I'm only batting seventh. It's like, well, if you're a freshman or sophomore batting seventh in a Division 1 lineup, that's pretty good, you know. Or, well, I'm only coming out of the bullpen. Well, if we're pitching you, that means you're good. I think that's. It's enormous. Like, I don't. I don't even know how to fully explain it. And it's really hard to tell the guys that are going to succeed at that. Meaning, like, if they do sit the bench or they don't get much playing time early on, can they handle it? You know, we talk about. Every coach talks about the guys on the bench are the hardest ones to coach because you're trying to coach them every day and keep them ready. We kind of saw that last year. I mean, we had a very average season at best, but we had so many injuries. Hitter, pitcher. I mean, every week you turned around, somebody was getting hurt with something crazy. And luckily there was a lot of guys that could step right in, so at least we could look at it in a positive way, like we were keeping them ready. But I think it also showed that we had the right people from a mental capabilities. You know, mentally, they were ready to go. We had some freshmen step right in and play and perform really well, you know, so, yeah, it's definitely tough. It's. It's hard to put my finger on it. I mean, I wish I knew exactly what that trait was that guys have to have, you know, to be able to get through the ups and downs of it. But I think that's the same. We were kind of talking before this started, you know, like the mental game. Everybody talks about it, but it's super, super hard to coach.
• 12:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, a lot. A lot of transition there. And I just remember going back to backtracking through my head of players whose careers really took off and ended up kind of figuring out how good they were going to be. And it, it usually wasn't how good they were. Freshman fall, it was more how did they react to a new environment. And some kids get punched in the Face. And it's the first time that they get there and they go, wow, I'm the sixth outfielder. What am I going to do? The kid who goes, okay, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna focus on getting better and like, figure out, can I become the fourth outfielder? Can I be the dude that coach looks at and goes and gets? Like, when it's time for a pinch hitter, can I be that guy? Can I run the bases really well? Like the guys who looked at and go, okay, I just need to figure out something that I do well that's going to get me in the lineup. Those guys careers always ended up pretty much exactly how you saw it, or oftentimes they kind of out kick their coverage. Like, guys ended up getting drafted and I don't know if it would have been draft guys, and then guys who were super talented, who didn't know how to react, and they never really were able to overcome it.
• 13:40
  Speaker C: Right. Yeah. I mean, we had a. To that point, the exact story happened two years ago. He's not on our team anymore. He actually transferred. Not that we wanted him to transfer, but he's playing at another school now. But his freshman year, he had come from a few states away. He wasn't. He grew up in another country. And he gave up his first home run in a fall scrimmage. And I think it was UVA or Towson, one of the two. And he just kind of did. He was really bad after that, and we hadn't seen that yet through two or three inner squads, and he was really, really bad all over the place. So we had pulled him, put another guy in, whatever. And we were meeting and going over stuff that week, and it was the craziest thing. And I just never even really thought of this being a thing. I should have known in the moment. But I said, well, yeah, after the home run, like, why weren't you able to settle down? What were you thinking? Were you using your resets and all the things we try to coach? And he was like, coach, I've never given up a home run in America. And I was like, what? What does that mean? Like, you've lived here for four years, this is your fifth year. He's like, yeah, I never gave one up. I'm like. And I was lost. I didn't even know what to say. But I was like, you're probably gonna give up more, so you're gonna have to get over that. The first one's done, you know, hopefully you give up another one next week. To be honest, because now I want to see what you do. Like, you got to get over it. And I kind of let it be, you know, and he was fine. The next week, like, I'll be damn. He let up another home run. Luckily he struck the next guy out. He came in and he was like, okay, I'm good. All right. We don't want to give up one every single time. But now you know, you got, you got over that hurdle. So like, to your point, you just never know what, what they may be thinking or, you know, again, he pitched at a, at a high school level that was just okay, I would say. And he's a big tall guy that threw super hard, so of course he was going to strike most people out. I don't necessarily think he was like a good pitcher, but he was a very hard thrower coming out of high school, so he hadn't really failed, you know. So the first time seeing him fail was in person in a real game against a Division 1 team.
• 15:58
  Speaker A: You know, I think it's hard for kids. I had a conversation with the family the other day. I did an in person event and they were talking about how like, should he continue to be a three sport athlete or should he not play a winter sport and focus more on baseball because he can't put on more weight and he needs to get more physical and all of this stuff. And I was like, well, why can't you do both? He was like, what do you mean? I was like, well, why can't you play hoops and put on weight at the same time? And he was like, what? I don't know. And you know, they were like, well, he's running down how much he does. And I was like, well, listen, like, I don't mean to sound like the Debbie Downer here, but like, what you're describing to me is more or less the bare minimum of what's going to be asked of you if you want to go play college baseball, right? Like, you're going to be asked to go to class, you're going to be asked to be in the weight room early, you're going to be asked to be on the field quite a bit. Like there's a lot of things that's going to be asked of you. Like what? Like not playing a sport and just working out to say that you want to work out and, you know, see if that works. Like, I don't know if that's the best scenario for this young man.
• 17:17
  Speaker C: Right.
• 17:17
  Speaker A: Like, it might be the best scenario for someone else, but I think it's hard when you know your freshman, when they get to campus, they have no concept of how much, the sheer amount of time you're going to spend playing baseball, talking about baseball, being on the field, being with teammates, traveling, all of those things. And it's, it's a lot. And I think that a lot of younger players, like you think you're doing a lot and some are, but you're. A lot of them are shocked when you get to campus of like, oh my God, what? This is way more than I've ever had to do. And the baseball IQ level is way higher than anything I know. And you know, hey, where are we going with a ball on, you know, what's our bunt D play with runners on first and second and nobody out. Like, what's the pitcher doing? You see kids head and spin. Like, I think I have the ball back to me. Like, no, you have this ball over here. Ah, okay. Like, you know, but there's, there's so much information that they have to be able to digest and then the failure aspect of it and you know, in every kid had, I shouldn't say every kid, but most kids have that welcome to college baseball moment that that young man had where they try to sneak a fastball by the four hole hitter who's a senior and he jumps the yard on you. And it's like, I used to get guys out with that pitch. Like, yeah, man, it's a grown man that you just threw that 87 mile an hour fastball with no movement to that you left, middle, middle. Like they're not going to miss it, you know, but the failure part is huge. Like, how are you going to respond to it? And you know, you're right. Like, you never know what it's going to happen until it actually happens. But like you're going to fail. I think is the overarching theme of what I'm trying to drive at here. Like, you're going to fail. It's a matter of what you do and how you respond to it when you're, when you get to that level.
• 19:10
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's all it is. It's just a matter of how quick you bounce back. I mean, you hear pro guys talk about it all the time. The difference between like double A and triple A or, or double and Triple kind of 1 being 1A, 1B compared to the big leagues is those guys can make quicker adjustments, whether that's in the at bat or in the inning compared to one inning to the next or maybe a double A guy can't do it until game to game, where that guy can do it inning by inning, you know, whatever it is, it's just quicker adjustments. Which I think goes back to seeing how mentally tough they really are, you know, um, which again, sometimes just takes longer for us, you know.
• 19:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. And that first fall for kids is always interesting too, because just a college practice, it's a whole different ball of wax from the, the organization, the structure, the intensity, the focus. You got new verbiage, you got, you know, different styles, you got to relearn some things like that alone can be real tough. And I think you were talking about one of your guys, really high IQ kid. The kids were like really good baseball players adjust to that environment quick because they're really comfortable just with their spikes on and their glove on and they can kind of assimilate into the environment real quick. And then there's some kids who, they're really talented athletes, and you get them into that new environment. It can take a little bit of time to figure out, well, what's. What's Coach Jackson talking about when he's talking? Like, what is. I've never heard anybody use this verb, you know, or what's Coach Swope talking about when he says this? Q Offensively, like, what. What does that even mean? Like, and being able to wrap your head around some different approaches and philosophies, like, it's steep. A lot of kids.
• 21:04
  Speaker C: Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, it's definitely difficult. I mean, I think that's the thing we're all trying to figure out. Like I told you guys before we started, I mean, we spent a lot, a lot of money this fall with a company to kind of get in the psyche of our players, which it seemed to be 100% correct. You know, spot on. When we meet with them individually, which is. It's just opened up other conversations that I don't know if those players would have brought up on their own. You know, most kids don't want to tell you the things they're not good at even if you ask. But I thought it was cool because the company also had us do them as well, these like, survey things. So we get our own sort of graded out scale in all these categories. So I was able to use that when referencing some things where some pitchers need to work on some things. I think, you know, one of, one of our guys in particular just maybe wasn't on the same page. I think he was looking at it very negatively, like we were trying to say super bad at something. And it was just like, no, I'm trying to explain to you this is just an area where we can grow, you know, the same as like you don't think your change up's that great. So we're going to keep working on it. Look at this the same way, you know, your self awareness or whatever. I ended up showing them my scores and I said, look man, we scored low in the same two categories. I'm not sitting here telling you I'm perfect at it, you know, as a coach but you know, it's, it's difficult, that's for sure. I mean the hours they spend at the indoor and on the field, I mean it's, it's a lot, It's a lot.
• 22:43
  Speaker B: Got to love it. Buying, you know, you're buying into, you want to go play college baseball. Like you are opting into competition and it's awesome, it's fun, but it's competitive and it's competitive for a reason. Like you guys are trying to win a lot of games.
• 23:01
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• 24:03
  Speaker B: there's been a lot of changes in college baseball. So we got to ask you about a couple of the more recent things. The most recent change is this new eligibility rule. The five for five. What? Obviously you got any personal thoughts on it? But how is that, how has that impacted anything that you guys are doing from a recruiting perspective?
• 24:27
  Speaker C: I mean right now it's not, it's a little tricky because it's new. So you know, our guys going into that fourth year, we kind of leave it open ended with them. Like we're not going to be mad if you graduate from here and you want to do your fifth year somewhere else. If you've been here all four years. That's. That's okay. Some guys, we may even say, like, it might be better for you for a change of scenery for that fifth year. You know, start your grad program somewhere. Other guys we were recruiting out of the portal, and it was funny because some of them, a couple of them were going into their senior year, and when we were talking to them, it was right around the time we were thinking it may go through, but we didn't know. So we were attacking it like a one year thing. And all of those kids at the same time were like, well, don't forget, if this rule goes in, I got two. And it's like, yeah, well, that's just icing on the cake if we get you for two years. But the hope is you, you come for one year, you get your degree, you finish it, and you get drafted. But yeah, if worse comes to worse, we get a really good player for an extra year. We're not going to say no. The only thing that's changed is we're just trying our best to keep the high school classes small. I don't. We're never going to go away from high school guys. I think getting, getting guys that you think you can keep for three to four years in a program are just. You have to have them. The development stuff that we do, I mean, I'd put it up against anybody, to be honest. And I just. It's difficult the way this stuff has changed, whether it's the five for five, the transfer, the portal, whatever. You also can't fault a kid if they get a couple hundred thousand dollars to go play college baseball. And it's like, okay, well, we can't give that. We're not giving that. We don't have it. And if that is a driving force, then that's okay. We're not going to be mad at you. Just, you know, go get it. But we would prefer they stay for development reasons because again, I think between Coach Swope and myself, you know, and our whole staff, we've coached enough guys to kind of prove a track record of being able to help them get to the next level and not only help them get there, but be ready for the next level when they do get there. I think is a key piece that people are missing, you know, but. But we had to go after this thing. Crazy different this summer just because we had some guys leave. But I don't, I don't think we're going to change the way we recruit. It's. The only difference is going to be a Little less high school guys. That's all we're kind of shooting for. Eight or nine in the class.
• 26:57
  Speaker B: Eight or nine high school guys in the class or eight or nine total.
• 27:00
  Speaker C: Yeah, eight or nine high school guys. And then you really can't plan to get guys in the portal until the season's over and you see who's coming back, you know. And I think after the way things ended and the way things kind of trickled through our roster of, okay, these couple guys that were our top end, younger players, did get some big money to go other places we were planning on replacing them, but then that kind of caused a trickle down effect a little bit, which was sad to see. At the same time, it was, it is what it is at this point. You know, we went out and got guys that we thought were maybe just a little bit better fit. Some were more experienced, some were the same age. It wasn't like every time a younger guy left, we went and got a senior. We recruited some sophomores, some transfer sophomores, transfer juniors as well. We just looked at it the same way. It had to be the best fit, you know, so as opposed to that high school coach, we were also digging into their college coach, you know, so if we got a player from Monmouth, one of our assistants knows an assistant there, so he gets the full rundown. Got a player from Ryder, we knew their coach, plus I knew his high school coach, you know, et cetera, for all those players. So we're still doing the same background checks. It's not just, okay, this guy hit.330 in the Mac, let's go get him. You know, the background checks are the same. The five for five specifically is just hard to say. It's like a big time change. You don't really know. I mean, with the injuries and stuff, the way things have been, I don't know, I feel like half the players have a fifth year already. I guess now, now it helps because if you have somebody that is dealing with an injury and they're not ready to play until the end of March, you're not worried about wasting a year of eligibility. You're just going to, okay, if he's ready and we need him, let's plug him in. You know, I mean, last year we had that happen. We actually didn't play a guy or two down the stretch because we didn't want to waste a year of eligibility, you know.
• 29:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's an interesting take, especially with the no, no red shirts, no waivers, none of that stuff of, you know, you. If you have somebody who, yeah, they're going to be full, full tilt in March or April. Like, hey, if they can help us win, let's get them back out there on the field. Because it's. You're. You're not burning a year. Like, you're going to burn the year anyways because you only get five of them. Like, you're not going to get another waiver to get back in there. So, hey, man, let's just let it rip and see what happens. I haven't. I never. I didn't think of that yet. Like, I was thinking more along the lines of, like, if you're not, like, you're going to have to be a good player if you're going to have the option to play the fifth year.
• 29:57
  Speaker C: Right?
• 29:57
  Speaker A: Like, I'm thinking along lines of, like, if we have a senior who's great clubhouse guy, but he's throwing like 12 innings in his career. Like, are you wasting a roster spot on that kid when you need. When you have 34? You know what I mean?
• 30:12
  Speaker C: Right, Right.
• 30:13
  Speaker A: Like, I. I don't know. It's going to be a program to program decision, but I was thinking a lot more along the lines of those types of things. But, yeah, it's interesting you bring that up if you're injured, but you, you're, you know, you're on track to be back during the season. Like, you're not burning here. Like, we ain't saving it.
• 30:28
  Speaker C: Just.
• 30:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, strap them on, buddy. Get on out there. You.
• 30:33
  Speaker B: You brought up something else, too, that had a couple, like, seminars that we've done recently. And I've brought this up because I think the transfer portal gets this. A lot of people who just have a really dark view of it, and sometimes I think the coaches like yourself get painted into this corner around. Well, they're just recruiting out of the portal. They're just going to recruit out of the portal. They don't want high school guys. When I think the more frequent reality of his of it is exactly how you're talking about it, which is we're gonna go get our eight or nine high school guys in the portal is reactionary. You're not holding off spots going, well, we're going into the portal, like, and maybe, maybe there are years where you have to do that. Then you go, hey, there's a couple guys on our roster that we know. They're just. It isn't going to work here. So we need to make sure that we're prepping for the portal. But I think what happens is A lot of people just think that coaches are just stopping recruiting high school guys and they're just going to wait until the portal opens up and go and do it. But I think the reality for most programs is we've got our. We've got 10 guys leaving, we got 10 freshmen coming in, and on June 1st, all of a sudden you've got a 34 man roster and now you got 28 man roster because six guys over in the port hurdle and you don't have a choice whether you want to or not. You need to go find some good ballplayers somewhere. And I don't, I don't think there's enough people having that conversation. And on social media, maybe we'll be the ones who have to start it up. But that's the one thing that really grinds my gears, is people acting like coaches don't care about high school guys anymore or they're just making decisions without taking the individual into consideration. And I think that the way that you just described it, I think is the way that most coaches are doing it. And I think it's the way that most coaches would prefer to do it.
• 32:41
  Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, and we were, you know, I think we, we caught a lot of flack or whatever the right word is for the first like month of the summer. I mean, I had everybody I've ever known in baseball texting me. High school wise, college wise, everything like, man, are you guys okay? And I'm like, yeah, it's, you know, it's hard to explain. It's hard to say via text that like, well, we had four grad guys that we knew were going to graduate. We said, hey, it's probably best you guys are on the same page with us. You probably want to do your fifth year somewhere else. Yeah, I would prefer to. Okay, great. Just do us a favor, don't go in the portal to the season's over. We don't want you, you know, showcasing yourself during the season. If you're one of our best players, we're going to play you. We want to win, we need to win, so why would we not play you? So all four guys did that, which was great. You know, it was a mutual agreement. Boom. We knew four guys were going in, but we never planned on them coming back anyway, so we didn't have to replace them yet. But then we had four players tell us they're about to get big money or whatever their reasons were, they left. So they left two pitchers, two hitters. Well, then once that happened, it looks like we have eight in the Portal, which doesn't look great. And then that turned into six or seven other guys saying, well, I want X. We're saying, well, no, you're not getting X. You're getting what you're getting because we still have to replace these people that just left. You're not replacing them. You were already here. We need that scholarship or whatever to go fill those spots, replace those players. So therefore, seven or eight other guys go in the Portal. So it turns into, oh, my God, you guys have 20 something players in the Portal. And it's like, man, that does. I mean, yeah, that looks bad. It looks really bad, you know, but what. We had 10 freshmen coming in already, so we didn't lose whatever the number was, 24. We had to, you know, delete five or six just to make room for the 10. And then when that trickle down effect happened, heck yeah, we had to go to the Portal. So, you know, I know Keith and I were joking about it. At one point this summer, I was home more than I've ever been in my entire life, coaching college baseball for the months of June and July. It felt really weird. I didn't get to go watch any of our commits. I didn't go watch anybody in the 28 class. I was either on campus with a visit or on the phone with you guys, scouts, agents, you name it, trying to find guys that, you know, would fit, you know, so. So we were in a different world at the time. But again, I think now, hopefully, the culture that our older guys have now built throughout this fall is like night and day from last year. It's not even remotely close, and we didn't really notice it until probably the last three or four weeks with some things that have happened. So you would hope that now that culture stays in place. So now we don't really have to worry about those guys leaving. And if somebody does, it doesn't turn down, turn into a trickle down effect, you know, because the thing that nobody really throws out there, they get all whiny about the Portal is like, well, there's also a lot of money exchanging hands right now. A lot, a lot of money. And it's real money. So I can tell you one thing. You put me back at Shepherd College in 2002, having the best season of my life, and the Division 1 school goes to somebody and tells me I can make over $100,000 to go play Division 1 baseball, or my mom and dad can spend $13,000 out of pocket for me to keep attending Shepherd. I mean, I love Shepherd. I loved every minute of it. But I'm out. Like, I'm out. And my dad would beat me over the head if I didn't say I was out. So I would go as well, you know? So that. That is another element that people aren't really putting into perspective, because they don't. Unless you're in it, you don't really understand it. I think that's why you're seeing a lot of guys, they decommit one day and they commit the second day. It's like, well, how'd that happen so fast? Well, because something was already working, right?
• 36:53
  Speaker B: There's.
• 36:53
  Speaker C: There's things in the works. It doesn't sound good. It's probably not good, but it's a thing. It's the world we're in now. I mean, that's the reason why a lot of college coaches at bigger programs like ours are calling it, like, a wild, wild west. Because things are crazy. I mean, they're crazy. It's not. Not the fifth year thing or the portal. It's all of it. When you throw nil and all this stuff combined, it's a whole nother world right now.
• 37:19
  Speaker A: And that's why you got your doctorate from Shepherd.
• 37:24
  Speaker C: Honorary doctor. Yep.
• 37:27
  Speaker A: No, but it is. We all know that it is. It's out of control. But I do think back to Andy's. I think a lot of people are so doom and gloom on the portal. And I'm glad you bring up the fact that you still have to recruit high school kids, because people view it through the lens of, like, well, they're bringing in all these guys out of the transfer portal. They're bringing them in because they can't. They need immediate replacements. Like, they can't recruit more kids in the next high school class to replace the kids that just left. They're going to have a roster of 22 guys. So, yeah, they have to. This isn't. They want to. Like, some programs might, but for the most part, like, this isn't a half this. I have to do this. Just have enough bodies to be in the dugout. Like, we can't roll a season out there with 24 players and think that we're going to be successful. Because Next, you know, two, three, four guys get banged up. I have 19 players. How are we supposed to play a 56 game schedule? And I think there's. I don't want to say disinformation, but it's misinformation, and it scares people to, oh, my God. No one is recruiting high School baseball, high school baseball recruiting is dead. But like, no it's not because no one, and I say this all the time, but they. I've yet to see anybody on Twitter or Instagram be like hashtag blessed committing to the transfer portal because no one coaches it. And you have to be in college to be in the transfer portal. Like you can't just commit to it and hope that someone recruits you. It's not a thing. So like it's the immediacy of it is what's missed on every, like pretty much everyone shouldn't say everyone. Overwhelming majority of people. It is missed that like isn't fill for these coaches. When things like that happen where you have grad guys leave or you have a handful of guys like you're talking about that you know you weren't planning on it. But hey man, it worked out for these kids and they got, they got paid so they left and then a couple other guys did. Like now we have to go into the portal to replace those players that just left because we can't bring. There's no 26es left to go get into this class. Like we got to get guys right now.
• 39:51
  Speaker B: Right?
• 39:51
  Speaker A: We're not backfilling in the 27 class. And I think that that is a huge piece of the, the understanding that people need to have surrounding the transfer portal. And I'm not anti transfer portal. I think that there it's. It's a better system in certain ways than we've had 20 years ago. Right. Like we would give kids money and kids. You, you know, I played with kids that got money and then coaches miss and then they don't get played. They kind of get treated like garbage in the hopes that they're going to even give their money back. There's no other recourse for you to do that. And especially at the lower to mid your levels where pretty much that's got. The school was like, no, that scholarship's guaranteed for four years as long as they're still enrolled here. So like you needed them to quit and then transfer out. Not just quit and stay because they're still getting that money and you have X amount of dollars tied up on campus with somebody who's just, you know, now a business major. So I, I think in, in certain ways it lends itself a little bit better to the protect the student athlete in a way that says like, hey man, if it didn't work out here, like why don't you jump in the portal? Like we'll help you find somewhere else. But we just don't see you ever playing here. It's an easier. It's not in. It's not a better conversation, but it's a better. It's a better way to go about it for the kid and the coaches.
• 41:15
  Speaker C: Right.
• 41:16
  Speaker A: And I just think that especially now, going to 34 at the Division 1 level, like, you have to mitigate risk as much as possible. Like, you can't. You keep talking about the right fit coming out of the portal. Like, it's not just high school kids, it's the portal too. Like, you're still looking for the right fit fit because you can't afford to miss with 34 on five, six kids. Because again, now you're back to playing 28. 29. 29 man rosters. Couple guys get dinged up. Those guys you missed on might have to play and then that. We all know what that looks like.
• 41:44
  Speaker C: Which.
• 41:45
  Speaker A: Which is what I want.
• 41:47
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 41:48
  Speaker A: I think that, like, those are two big things that I think, you know, people need to understand is the fit not only from a kid standpoint into the program standpoint, but also like the transfer portal is not all doom and gloom. It's. It's the immediacy of what coaches need given what happens in their programs postseason.
• 42:07
  Speaker B: Right.
• 42:08
  Speaker C: No, I agree.
• 42:10
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 42:11
  Speaker B: The. At least anecdotally, it feels like the 2028 class is slow. I think. Think I saw recently, like, there's less than 200 kids committed in the country, and I know you guys got a couple guys kind of local to my area. Do you think there's any specific reason that things seem to have been a little bit slower this fall? Is it coaches really wanting to make sure that they get a really good sample size on guys, do you think some of it is the Portal? Kind of. How have you guys approached that with your 28 class and just your general thoughts on things seemingly being a little bit slower than usual?
• 43:00
  Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's slower than usual. Kind of the same idea. It's like a trickle down effect. You know, you still have some of the biggest programs with a dozen commits already. You know, even though it's. It's a little crazy to think that you would have that many just because, you know, you're not going to keep that many even before they show up. But the second side of that is also you have to get out and see these guys. Like you said. Well, if the majority of us at bigger programs are spending the first month or two when we used to be on the road watching those guys getting ready for August 1st, I'll be honest, I went down to the Futures Games and for the first time in my life, I had to look at another assistant on our staff and be like, who am I watching? And I've never done that my whole life. I mean, I've never gone somewhere asking for somebody to give me a schedule. I know that's how some programs do it. I've just never done it. I've always been places where we all help each other, but I literally had to be like, I don't know, one kid at this event, at any state, in any state. So that was my first look at a lot of those guys where you're trying to cross check and cross reference each other's people. So we were pushing those next two camps we had even bigger than ever with 15, 20 different guys, because it's like, well, we did see it, but we didn't see until one day late in a tournament. Then we never saw you again. It's. We're not trying to get your 200 bucks, you know, we're trying to see you. So, yeah, I think it's, it's all one in the same. It's like the Portal pushed you back later in the summer. Later in the summer pushes you back for 28s. Some people still do the August 1st all year and make a big offer. If you haven't been on our campus before that, we try not to do that if at all possible. You know, we want to be face to face with guys and their family, so we kind of slow play it as best we can, you know. But yeah, it's. I don't know, it's. It's definitely a tricky, tricky thing. And like I said, I feel like probably right before the quiet period started for the fall is when I felt like I finally had a decent handle on the 28 class as like in general. And then we can't go recruit because now we're in a quiet period. So. Yeah, it's. It's tricky. I don't know. I don't have an exact answer, but I think it's like everything else. It's like that trickle down effect, you know, from. From the season or from the Portal. I mean.
• 45:36
  Speaker B: Yeah, I talked to a couple guys, mutual friends, that they've kind of alluded to this early in the process with how kids develop over the course of the winter and knowing that they'll likely be able to see them a lot more come early summer next year, that they're kind of along the lines of, if I don't absolutely feel like I have to have you. I can, I can wait. And. Which is, it's so different. And you, you certainly coached in this era where, I mean, eight, 10 years ago, it was kind of like grab as many guys as you can and figure it out later was the approach that was going on with a lot of, a lot of the higher end schools was just, hey, if we. The kid who's 8184 but is 6 foot 4, like, we got to get him before the other school gets him. So we need to get our offers out now, everybody. And you just hope that that kid ends up being 89 to 92 with a demon sinker when he gets to campus. And now I feel like at least a lot of the guys that I know and trust that I've talked to, the kind of like, hey, if I don't, if it's not like a. We got to have this kid. We are a lot more comfortable pumping the brakes and making sure that we have seen everything that we need to see before we're willing to commit to this guy.
• 47:01
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And that's definitely how it is. I mean, we, we've told each guy we've committed. You know, when we're making the offer. Like, listen, we've never pulled an offer. We've never decommitted anybody. We just, we haven't done it. You know, if we recruited them, we've kept them. You know, if you, if you get injured, we're going to keep you. I mean, we have two guys that have already had surgery in the 27 class. I think they were petrified to call us and let us know. You could kind of hear it in their voice. But then we reminded them, we told you this when we recruited you. We're not lying. We're going to keep you. You know, so again, that's why we want to kind of triple check our homework before we make an offer. Because we know, we look at it like we're married to that guy. You know, I'm not saying that's the right way. I don't know. I mean, that's, that's the way we do it. So we want to make sure. So in that 28 class, if you look at every single guy, they've either they either play for a travel team or a high school coach that one of us knows for a super long time. We have one guy that, yes, we still did all the background stuff. We didn't have a super, super close connection out of the four or five, whatever it is. Commits we have. We still did all the homework stuff, but didn't come from a very specific coaching tree, I would say, you know, like those other guys did.
• 48:22
  Speaker B: Noted.
• 48:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, noted.
• 48:25
  Speaker B: Now things are changing. I. I don't know what the heck's gonna happen next. You know, we'll probably be dealing. You guys will probably be trying to sort through some stuff, you know, next June with some new roster change or some new rule or something. But that's a you problem. We'll talk about it on the podcast, but we don't have to live it.
• 48:45
  Speaker C: Well. Yeah, there's always going to be something that goes through. I think that the. That's the sad part, because we think we know the rules, and then, poof, they change. You know, that's. That's the hard part.
• 48:58
  Speaker B: I hope for. For your guys sake, having been in your shoes and for the. For the high school players as well, I hope they can. We could settle into something that is at least predictable or at least consistent for a year or two in a row where, you know, it feels like every single year, every high school class needs to adjust to something new. And sometimes if you don't have somebody who's willing to shoot you straight, you don't get the information and you're not able to adjust with how things are working. And hopefully this. This upcoming summer is, you know, with the changes that have made the last couple years, it kind of normalizes. And you guys know how it's going to work. And when you guys know how it's going to work or how you're going to attack usually trickles down to the recruiting process kind of flows a little bit better because things happen a little bit more sequential. But five for five is the next wrinkle for next year. Right? Like, that's the next thing you guys are gonna have to sort out.
• 49:58
  Speaker C: Yeah, I mean. I mean, I look at it like this. We were. We were finally finishing up our roster for this year. Swope and I were talking one night on the phone. He said something that made me think about it, and I said, yeah, I don't know. Looking back, man, when you told me to come join you when you took over, I said, I don't know. With all these rules that happened in the next 36 months, I mean, damn, it was a lot of stuff. Fast. And he's like, well, yeah, I mean, you know, the nil. I said, no. I mean, the portal wasn't even a thing. I mean, it was a thing, but people weren't going in to make money. People were Just going in because they had a grad year left. Now we just had a list of grad guys. So we added one grad transfer at JMU right before I left. But then three of the top 10 programs in the country joined the Big Ten no sooner than I get in the Big Ten. And it's like, poof. The conference just got harder. Oh, you had 11.7. Well, now you can have 34 if you're willing to pay for it. It's like, well, happen to be at a school where you can't Quite pay for 34, because we also have a lot of sports at our school, so we don't have the funds for that. And then it's, oh, nil. Oh, you can just pay them. And then the next year it's like, well, you can't pay them. I mean, you can, but it's got to go through somebody. So, like, you're not supposed to set it up, but you can set it up, but it can go through the collective. So now we got a collective, and then, oh, crap, you can't. We fire those collective people because you can't do it through the collective anymore. So now you just gotta find, you know, a car dealership. Well, we don't have a car dealership to give somebody cars. We don't. I don't know. There's a heavy populated area. This ain't the country, you know, like, they sell enough cars. So, I mean, in. In three years, it was like, holy crap. You know, when you look back, going, man, we recruited Kevin and Chase and all these pro and big leaguers and my, you know, whatever. Just, you know, normal high school kids. Watch them develop, watch them grow, you know. You'd like to say we helped the Lauder. I think maybe we did, mentally. But that kid's rake, since, you know, since he grabbed a bat. But at the same time, we weren't really worried about him leaving because, I mean, yeah, there were still rumblings because he was that good for our level back when we were in the caa. But then it was like, well, why would he leave? It's not like somebody pay him the same blue chips. You're not giving double bags of cash. You know, I mean, maybe people were. I don't know, but we weren't. So, you know, nowadays, I don't. If Chase the Lauder stepped on our campus, good God, Any school that's got a million dollars to spend, they better give it to them and more power to you. How do you not. I mean, you know, so, yeah, it's it's happened fast, so I'm with you. I hope to God the rules don't change for a while.
• 52:55
  Speaker A: No, it's been a roller coaster. I remember doing an in person thing and I was like, I swear if they change any more rules, I'm going to lose my mind. And as I finished up, I was on my open my phone and Andy sent me the tweet of like, juco years don't count anymore. And I was like, what is happening right now? No less than 40 minutes ago. I was like, if they change any more rules, I'm like, I don't know what to do. It was like, oh, had the injunction. Juco rules don't count. Yeah, years don't count. Like, oh, okay, so we'll just go to juco for two years and then just play another seven and. Okay.
• 53:32
  Speaker C: And everybody believed it. Everybody believed.
• 53:34
  Speaker A: Oh, everyone believed it.
• 53:36
  Speaker C: Oh, this is a thing. This is definite. We had kids email and text.
• 53:39
  Speaker B: And that myth, it felt like mythbusters being like, no, it's for one junior college class, period. And it was such a unique thing. But yeah, I mean, I remember and there were some reputable sources that just jumped the gun, like guys who were supposed to know what's going on. Going out there being like, gonna have 33 years old guys playing in college because they can do two years of junior college and then they got four years eligibility at their four year schools and they can do a bit. It's like, no, no.
• 54:15
  Speaker C: But yeah, no, I'm with you. It's, it's, it's crazy. And that's why I do feel bad for a lot of the high school kids, but the parents with like the recruiting process and stuff because they, they think it's. I think they think it's worse than what it is. It's not as bad as I think people make it out to be. You know, there's plenty of great programs still recruiting plenty of high school guys. But to your point, if anything, it might be more beneficial to them because more of us do want to be really sure before you make that offer now, because like you said, you can't stockpile 15 guys a year. So if anything, it's almost like one of those, like your parents tell you, it's like a blessing in disguise of like, you might not realize this, but three, four years from now you're going to realize, thank goodness a bunch of these bigger schools didn't offer you because you weren't ready for it. You know, coming out of high school, you would have sat the bench for a year and a half and then told to transfer anyway. So what's the point? You know, we, we have a transfer that's, that's going to most likely start for us every day. That came from another good program. He came from a local high school right around here. One of his, his high school coaches, one of my best friends for 25 years. And the first words out of his mouth were like, well, I told you to take him three years ago. I said, well, think about it, man. At his position, if he would have entered, we had a kid hit.303 with 21 home runs. So do you think he would have played? It's like, well, not that year. I said, okay, well, the following year we had a different guy hit.315 with 12. You think you would have played? Probably not. So instead of sitting our bench for two years, who knows if we, if he would have got better because he would have sat he and he played. And so like, maybe this worked out the way it was supposed to work out, you know.
• 56:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's. My personal feeling is that I think that the amateur level of high school baseball is in the, it's probably the healthiest from a recruiting standpoint that we've ever seen in a really long time because kids now have the opportunity to go and use another off season to develop and get seen over the, you know, over the course of the next six months in on campus camps and then show up and show out in March, April, May, June, July, where coaches can get out and see them and have legit decisions made on them when they're, they've developed to the point where they are either recruitable at that level or they're, they jumped a level from where they previously were.
• 56:48
  Speaker C: Right.
• 56:49
  Speaker A: Like the years ago, like, you know, I was at rpi, like we would get guys all the time that, you know, realistically didn't really have any business. Now do they play at the Division 1 level? I don't know. But we had guys on our roster that, you know, played as freshmen that were 88 to 91 at 6 foot 4. And that guy now has the potential to be a legit Division 1 recruit coming out of high school. Whereas 7, 8, 9 years ago, like he was 84, 86 in the recruiting process and nobody wanted him because he didn't throw hard enough. And it was like, well, he's 6 foot 4, he spins the shit out of a breaking ball. Like, I think he's going to throw pretty hard. And lo and behold, he shows up at RPI and he's one of the best pitchers in program history. And. But I think like that, like those types of kids, they're all over Division 2 and Division 3 baseball. And I think those kids are going to have more of an opportunity to potentially play Division 1 baseball or, you know, maybe transfer up at some point, depending on what they want to do ultimately career than ever capable of doing before and whether it's good or, you know, from the college game. But I think giving the opportunity to be able to actually now whether the less than 200 andy that you're talking about, like, those are generally, generally speaking, I don't want to say can't miss, but really good, really good prospects that guys have a really good handle on. You've seen a bunch of, he fits your program, we're gonna go get him. But the rest of them, there's a ton of them out there. Like, let's see what happens in six, seven, eight months. That could be a completely different kid come April. Okay, he might fit us in April. So, you know, and I think, you know, one of the guys that plays for you that came from us, like, that was him. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, he needed an extra off season and then it was like, okay,
• 58:43
  Speaker C: yeah, yeah, he had the normal recruiting process like the one that we're all used to of like, oh, man, there's something about this kid. He's good, he wins, he throws a lot of strikes, blah, blah, blah. All the stuff we've all talked about 10,000 times over again. And then the high school coach is like, yeah, I don't know either. But like, he fits person wise and everything else, but the stuff ain't there yet. And then off season pitches in the spring, okay, now the stuff is there and then now it's time to actually move forward, you know, so that's, that's more of the normal process, which I wish it was for everybody, you know, but. But again, I mean, everybody's got their own thing, right? Like, everybody's got their own story. I think that's what's cool. Like, I mean, gosh, you turn on Andy knows turn on the Tampa Bay Rays right now you got three CAA players.
• 59:36
  Speaker B: Richie Palacios, baby, right? It's crazy.
• 59:40
  Speaker C: I mean, your boy Palacios and Kev, all of which played in the caa, all of which were like, yeah, they put up legit numbers, but I don't know if, when I watched all of them, I was like, oh, my God, he's a Major leaguer. Like, I, you know, I was mad at the, the other two we didn't have on our team because, you know, we should have recruited them, but not in the sense of like, oh yeah, he's definitely a big leaguer, you know, but now look at him. Because clearly, mentally they have something a little different than other people. So I don't think. My assumption, I don't know those two, but my assumption is they would not go back and change anything because that's what got them to where they are now. Where. If the Portal was a thing back then, I don't know, I mean, think of Palacios, like, what if he did go to the ACC or the SEC or the Big Ten? And I mean, we got two guys that are just as good at college level when he was in college. Our second baseman right now, hands down is equally as good, if not better. Now, it doesn't mean he's going to be a major leaguer, but from a talent standpoint, statistically, everything, he's above him. So if he went in the Portal a year ago and we recruited him, but we had this other kid, what are we going to do? Put that kid on the bench. We don't know he's going to be a big leaguer seven years from now or six years, you know, whatever.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker B: Oh, and that's a, that's the hard part is like Richie was a fantastic player. He was the best player on a thousand team. That wasn't great at the time, but he walked in to play thousand and it was like, we have to make sure that that dude does not beat us. He did a lot of things really well. I think he ended up going to maybe the fifth or the sixth round. Like. But to your point, if he leaves Towson as a sophomore and goes to Florida and he gets in the mix with the Florida guys and doesn't start or gets off to a rough start in the SEC because he. It's a jump up.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker B: Different ball of wax. Like, does he. Is he a fifth rounder? Probably not. Maybe he's a 14th rounder. Like all this trickle down. Well, your 14th rounder versus a fifth rounder, we spend a lot more money on you in the fifth. You probably get a little bit longer leash and you're seeing that happen. These are the stories that people don't talk about. And this is. I don't want to get, I don't want to get negative, but there are guys who go into the Portal who try to make that jump up in the jump up is Hard. And it changes their whole trajectory as a player. Yeah, not for everybody, but those are. There's definitely some stories and I'm not going to name them on the podcast that I did stick out in my head. A couple kids that I was very familiar with that went from a lower level Division 1 to a really high level Division 1, and it didn't go as well as I think they would have liked it to go and may have cost them kind of some draft stock. But yeah, that playing time, the reps, the at bats, like, to your point, you sit for two years, you know, not that anything ever gets handed to you, but your whole trajectory as a baseball player changes if. Whether you play as an 18 or 19 year old or whether you don't.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's why I'm not a big fan. I know people probably hate me for saying this, but I'm not a big fan on the saying, like, I'm going to bet on myself. I just think it's so overused and not understood. I think when guys are going to the pool, like, I'm going to bet on myself that I can play at the highest level. Well, this is not the highest level. The highest level is what you're watching on TV right now. The major leagues is the highest level. So do you think this is the best path for you to get to the highest level? Sure. It's not. I don't look at that as betting on yourself that's trying to improve your status and hoping to goodness that is the best trajectory for you. Or it's just, I'm getting offered $200,000. I'm gonna take it while I can, which is also perfectly okay. But just say that, you know, don't, don't fabricate the truth in the sense of like playing at the, you know, we had somebody say that to us and we're like, okay, so you understand Matt Shaw, three seasons ago, went in the first round from the same exact baseball team that you're playing for. How much higher can you go than the first round? Like, it's not possible. So don't use those words. That's. It just sounds stupid when you say them, you know? So when you're speaking to college coaches that have done this forever, it's, you know, like one of our pitchers was about to use the word development with me when he was talking about going portal, and I was like, you better not say it. Like, don't you dare use that word with me. If you want to say, I want to get paid, I want to Play in this conference? Heck yeah, man. Like, I don't want you to, I'm going to be pissed at you, but if that's what you want, you got to take it. But use all these cliche words and just, you know, take them out. That's, that's not why you're going in the portal, you know. But yeah, I'm with you. There's a lot of ups and downs. That's why I hope that people are really, really thinking it through. Like, the only thing I'll tell you too with this is that I told a friend of mine. And again, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just my two cents on it is I think when these high school guys are committing, if you're committing to a four year school, do not have it in the back of your mind that you're only going there so that you can prove something. To then level up, go there because you truly think that's where you want to be. And if your mind changes one, two or three years from now, then so be it. But this is why we have junior colleges. Because when you go to a junior college, that entire 30, 40 man roster has the same goal to go to the highest level of a four year university. So go there where you can actually be a good teammate. Because, and my only reference to that is I had one of my best friends still to this day went to college with me. At the same time had the notion of being told by division one school, you go there, you produce, you get your grades up, you can come here. And then he just went this way because all he was thinking about was the next place as opposed to, you know, same thing we try to tell every kid, like, be where your feet are. We can't be where your feet are if your plan is to just transfer. Because I can tell you one thing, most of those coaches ain't recruiting you for you to transfer. They're recruiting you to win them baseball games right now. You know, so I, I look at it that way. Again, I'm not saying that's right, but that's how I would look at it.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker A: I couldn't agree more with you.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker B: You are right. I'll say it
• 1:06:43
  Speaker A: like, I don't think you can be more right. And especially because when you start talking about junior college baseball and those things and it doesn't matter the division, there are, and I say this lovingly, there's no rules in junior college baseball where they're not governed by the NCAA, where you get what, 40 days plus indies and stuff like that. Like division two is less, it's 35, I think with no indies and division three, you get 16 to 24 days. How you want to use them. Like you can start playing baseball the second you set foot on campus at junior college, play 16 games in the fall and finish up when you go home. And then when you come back in three weeks, you can start playing baseball, play 56 games and finish whenever you finish. And that's, that's a lot of development time in there. It's a lot of baseball. There's a lot of things. And you, you're right with the mindset like everyone's trying to get to the best spot that you can possibly get to. There is. And my point in saying is like the, the days that you're allotted at the Division 1, 2 and 3 level, you're, you don't have that in junior college, right? Like you, you get what, four game days now, which is a massive change, right? Like massive change. Like they can play 12 more, you can play 12 more games. Plus the amount inner squads you're gonna have. You're gonna inner squad all fall and then you get the same amount like Division 2 in Division 356 games you can at junior college, right? Like it's a lot more opportunity to be able to play. It's a lot more at bats, it's a lot more innings pitched, it's a lot more innings in the field there, there. It's why junior college guys like go look at the rosters all over college baseball. Some of the best teams in the country are loaded with juco guys. Kansas is probably the, the best example right now of going after juco guys and being, you know, super successful in doing so. But like I think at least in this part of the Northeast, the mid Atlantic I, I, New England, I think people look down their nose at it because there's so many good colleges, whereas other parts of the country, not to say there's not good colleges, but they're few and far between. And junior colleges become more of a, an avenue for guys to be able to get to a four year school that they want to go to and there's really good junior college programs all over the country. That's what they're designed to do. They're designed to develop you, get you to play, play early and then move on to a four year school after that. And with the five or five, like now you got three years instead of two. So you know, you could go play for three years at A Maryland, if that's what you're looking to do, or you know, Marist or wherever you want to go. Shepherd. But my point is like, I couldn't agree more with you because we, I've had conversations with people about this and it's like, well, if that, if your ultimate goal is to try to get to the highest level you can go to, like junior college is literally the only spot for you to go. You shouldn't start at the Division 2 level or the Division 3 level or a mid major. Like you shouldn't start there because so like, not only what you're saying is correct, but like so many things have to go right for that to happen. Like you have to go on campus at a four year school with older dudes who are likely better than you already as a freshman in high school and be better than all of them and play a lot and develop on your own because you're not going to have the access to all of this stuff that, that you want and do all of this stuff to where, like, you know, if you're a Division 3 kid who wants to go to Division 1 level after your freshman year, like you need to go be like player of the year, not even rookie of the year. You need to go be player of the year and hit like 590 with 26 home runs for people to be like, we might want to take a chance on this kid. Like, you know what I mean? Like the numbers that you have to put up are absurd if you, if that's the route that you were looking to take. Whereas if you go to a junior college, like you could hit.310 as a freshman with six home runs and then go hit 350 with 12 home runs. And it's like he's getting bigger, he's getting stronger. He can drive the ball a little bit far. Like he can, he can get the ball, the bat, the, the, the barrel to the ball. There's more there. Like he has 350 at bats coming out of junior college or 70,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker B: you
• 1:11:05
  Speaker A: know, so I, I, I, I couldn't agree more with that statement and I'm glad you said it.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker B: I double that. A triple tamp, triple stamp, the double stamp there. Just if you go in with the intention of leaving, it's never going to work out to your exact point. So I won't, I won't beat the proverbial dead horse there. I think Coach Glasser covered that one well. But listen, Coach, you're the man. It's always good catching up. Obviously we'll be keeping tabs. I know you got a little bit left on your fall here. You'll. You'll more than likely see me at several, several events this spring. Might hit you up for a ticket. Maybe. Maybe let me go sit in the dugout. I don't know. But I'll definitely be up this spring and looking forward to seeing what the Terps are going to roll out there come, what, February 12th this year. Is that right?
• 1:12:07
  Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, with the new rules, you coach a base, you call pitches, many coaches as we want, you know, there are no rules.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker A: College baseball. Yep.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker B: I'll come throw some. I'll come throw some pregame bp. I still got like, I could get through probably two groups real well right now. After that, I would have trouble lifting my arm up for a week, but.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker C: All right, that works.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker B: Throw some BP or something. But no, I appreciate your time in. Always good catching up.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker C: All right, you too. I appreciate both of you. Thank you.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker B: Thanks for listening, everybody. Talk to you later. Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram @MD baseball. If you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.