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Dart Ain't Smart · State of Play

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Today we feature the Oscar winning acting troupe to OKC Thunder for their performance in Fall to the Ground Like Somebody Shot You.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's Stay to Play.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: All right, welcome to Stay to Play, the podcast at the intersection of sports, pop culture, and politics.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Blessing me on the mic today is my boy Henry.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: This is Vince.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Today we're going to talk about the NBA playoffs, uh, SGA's lack of flopping control.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jackson Dart and uh Fallout over the New York Giants, which I love as a Cowboys fan.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you do as a as a Commies fan.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean Commanders fan.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and lastly, the NAACP's push to get black athletes to boycott the SEC schools.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know we're and we're gonna first we're gonna we're gonna talk about the NBA playoffs.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: So um Sunday night, the Spurs absolutely destroyed the Oklahoma City Thunder.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Wemby had 33 points.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember how many rebounds, like eight single rebounds, which I'm a little disappointed in him, but whatever.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: SGA only had 19 points shooting 30 something percent low 30s from three-point range.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't have any help, Henry.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was like pretty obvious that they were missing uh AJ Mitchell and especially Jalen Williams.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, I thought the Spurs played with a little bit of fire in their belly.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: They they knew that it was a must-win game.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can't go down one three to technically the best uh team in the uh NBA with the MVP, and they are the reigning champion, and you can't go down like that to a team like that.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the Spurs played with desperation.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um SGA only got away with like three flops.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: Those are record low flop levels.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so what what did you make of the game?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I think as fans, we're we're getting the best series that we could have hoped to see.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you have two teams that are probably roughly evenly matched.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Wemby is obviously the storyline, his greatness, and I guess this is probably his first big showcase on this kind of a um a stage.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So up to um so up to this point, like I said, it's it's been an interesting, interesting playoffs.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: We will see how how it goes.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is still my expectation that the Thunder will be able to pull it, um, pull it off.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um I still think the Spurs are maybe a year, um, a year away.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the Thunder, they have done it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: But again, um, this is the matchup that as an NBA fan you would um you would want to see.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I do think the winner of this series will win the NBA championship.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Normally I would agree with that assessment of them being a year away.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Only reason I disagree is because they are the the OK Oaklay OKC is clearly lacking firepower unless they get hot with a couple of their role players, which they've done already with uh with uh Caruso going off one game, and then we had Jerry McCain going off.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think Caruso had like zero points uh the uh uh Sunday night.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: They had literally zero points, and that was because of the adjustments in part.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: They were not going to double cover uh SGA the entire game.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh especially when Caruso came in, they made a commitment to only single cover him um and maybe double cover him when he got into his action, like meaning when he got into the above the three-point line or into the three-point line, they decided to send someone help and then send someone back.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I that was a brilliant coaching display from the Spurs coach.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um the reason why I disagree is because I don't think they're I think they're I don't think they're a year too early to to win this is only because Jalen Williams and um AJ Mitchell are such huge fans.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean you're talking about an all-star missing, yes, from your from your team.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then AJ Mitchell, who's a rising star who can come off the bench and like just score in a litany of ways.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: I do think that I don't want to say overrated, but you're talking about like there's a there's an X factor with the Spurs.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um they're defensively, they just don't care who you are, they will guard anyone, anytime, any place, anywhere.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I don't know for sure if they would have won uh okay so we'd have squeaked this series out.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: I still have the Spurs winning this series primarily because uh they don't have those two guys, um, unfortunately.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um the reason why they may be the Spurs might be a year too early and why they may lose the NBA finals is because of that precisely.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: They're they might be a year too early and a little too young to beat, yes, the New York Knicks in the finals, because the New York Knicks are going to the finals.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: That series is totally cheeks, totally trending that way, it's trending in that direction for sure.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, so I it's a foregone conclusion for us that the Knicks are probably going to the finals.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: No one even wants to talk about um uh wants to talk about Gleeland because they're just a train wreck, uh, especially defensively.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, on the Spurs note, I think that again, they could I I can see them going to New York and actually losing in a seven-game series.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: They already lost like once or twice to the Knicks with Wimby, by the way.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um but since we're on the topic, I'm just switching to Wimby real quick.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: He is an absolute alien monster.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: He's the best thing visibly with my two eyes that I have seen in terms of um like capturing imagination since um you know prime leBron.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Even even young LeBron when he uh took that took that mercenary squad uh his first few years after like I think it took what it took him like six or seven years to get to the finals with the Cleveland Cavaliers and Booby Gibson.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Anybody remember remember Booby Gibson and how he went to the finals?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, um, you know, I w we haven't seen anything like Wimbinama.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: He he's got a mad handle, he's got a bag, he's got counters, he can score from it literally anywhere on the court.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: You saw that that that crescendo uh of the half-court shot that he shot with confidence at the end of the first half, nothing but net um you know his form looked regular like a regular form, didn't even look like he was just like throwing it up, like he shot at regular and he knew it was going in.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that was a 22-point first half from uh from Wimby there.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just think that he is such an X factor um when it comes to when it comes to the playoffs and just in general for that team, bro.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't we haven't seen anything like him.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just wondering, like, is that where does that factor for you as far as like him being as good as he is?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um well he he's certainly as good as as advertised.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can't really say enough about his game and how talented he is.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I do think he's miscast as an enforcer.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're the next iteration of the Spurs, so I know they're still in contention now.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think they need somebody to take the tough guy pressure off of Wendy.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: It does not seem to be his personality or um um or demeanor.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I actually feel like there have been some instances of like a distraction maybe from his natural game.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let him play his game and get somebody else to be the tough guy.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Except for when he plays against Chet Hungry.
• 8:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: He turns, he sees Chet and like fangs come out, bro.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: He he literally swatted his dunk.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he tried to Chet tried to like, you know, he tried to yam on him, and Wemby was like casually just swatted that junk into the stance.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, um, so you know, I don't know, he is not a tough guy enforcer.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I do think that, you know, maybe they'd need a a big, tough 6'10, you know, burly dude to sort of lock down the paint in terms of hard enough, you know, they need a Harkenstein.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they need someone like that on their team, ironically.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're probably not gonna get him or anyone else.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't I don't know any other other big old dude who's gonna just you know start running to the sp.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a GM, so maybe they have something in mind.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just think that if they win the NBA finals, how are you gonna keep are are you gonna keep someone like uh De'Aaron Fox when you have someone rising up like uh um uh Dylan Harper who has been playing great.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Although the last two games meh and by the way, the first two games when when um when De'Aaron Fox did not play, you you saw the result.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they the Spurs turn turn it over at a high clip.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh you know, Castle, God bless him, he's a great player, but he ain't no he ain't no point guard.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um because I mean the the amount of turnovers, you know, like what 10 in the first game, eleven in the second game, or vice versa.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, if that had that trend continued, there's a point at which he would have become unplayable, I think, unfortunately.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Where you can't have that, I guess, at this level of um of playoff basketball.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: But we'll see.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, something clearly worked because he he was balling uh in terms of like thinking wise.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: He only the only risky passes he took were, I mean, he was definitely more thoughtful in what he was doing, methodical.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And he threw a couple of passes up to Wimby, which are mostly like gimme's, but they're not guaranteed, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but he made the right play when he would drop through the lane, and then instead of shooting, he'd sort of just sort of floated up to Wimby and you know, Wimby went to work.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, you know, on the other end, what do you make of you know, I was, you know, you were watching the game with me, bro.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was yelling at the TV with SGA.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know what is going on with that, with the with the whole flopping thing.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he's found mega success at it, you know.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: He has these, and the rest of the team, I almost think like that coach, um God forgive me for for forgetting the coach's name, but he's like a soccer coach or something, bro, because the way they the entire team has this philosophy of falling on the ground.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think we've ever seen a team fall on the floor more than this team in the history of the NBA.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that is not hyperbole, you know.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is me being like legit looking with my eyes and saying, I don't think I've ever seen this level of, you know, now I know I I'd been skeptical in the past that the uh you're about to say something fair that the thunder was getting um home cooking in the sense that people had been suggesting previously.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: There were certainly at least a couple of egregious calls in the last game.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can say that for sure, where I felt like um some very dubious foul calls that didn't really hold up under um bro, under inspection.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: The one with De'Aaron Fox, that ghost call where he just like, you know, he De'Aaron went for the block, but literally did not fall for the flop, you know, bait, the foul bait that SGA put out right there.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: He was just like, oh, I'm just gonna casually go around it in slow motion.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: Did not touch him at all.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: SGA falls on the floor, foul.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing happened against Wimbin Yama, where he just taught Wimby.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh uh uh SGA literally tossed his entire body at Wemby, throws himself right into his, you know, his uh his stomach area and then falls and gets a call.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just it was absurd on his face.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Once again, I think the calls are less and less, and I think SGA is actually like messing up his stat line for it because he's not making, he's not getting every single call, but he's not attempting to make some of these shots that are makeable.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's messing up his stat line because he's clearly a great player, he's clearly a great shooter, um, you know, anywhere in the paint, especially.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And he's just not he's just not getting it done because his his whole thing is just hey, I'm gonna fall on the floor and see what the refs do.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that that BS has got like the internet and all of sports them, basketball fandom up in arms because they're just not they're sick of it, you know.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sick of it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: I hate why I hate watching SGA play basketball because not only do I hate it because I hate the foul baiting, because I I hate it because I know how good he is, bro.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like he his shot is so pure.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just want him to see see him live up to the expectation.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: But the question is, is man, is he just an average guy?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the same thing James Harden went through, who sort of would have a good regular season, but the rest wouldn't fall for that BS in the postseason where he would sort of flail and you know twist his arms in you know obscure positions um onto defenders to try to try to get a foul call and then fall on the floor.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: He was the same way, but that didn't work in the playoffs.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: SGH finding out that that nonsense doesn't work in the playoffs either.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, is I I can't do it, bro.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can't we'll see.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it'll be a point of emphasis as the series winds down because they know that people are focused on it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how it plays plays out down the street.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do you how do you think people are gonna feel if SGN OKC pulls it out?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: How do you think they're gonna feel it?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think well, I think it obviously would depend on the circum the surrounding circumstances.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I do feel like Chet needs to step his game up if OKC is gonna be um successful, where it would have been my expectation that overall Wimby would outplay him, but the um the margin I think is kind of unacceptable given his pedigree.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: You you think so his lack of passion, um, I'm sure it's a cause for some concern, you know, in the um with the um with the thunder, but you would think that he would be the best possible one-on-one matchup.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: That would be the thinking, you know, kind of that if you don't expect him to stop Wemby, but you know, he can get in the mix, slow him down, bother him a little bit more than what we've seen up to um this point, and there doesn't really seem to be much of a clear desire to take that challenge and to um um to live up to it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I know there's scheme and other kinds of things going um um going on, but I think especially in the circumstance where you have injured teammates, um chet, you're making 50 million a year.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it is at that level, it's kind of like you um have to do this is where you have to deliver.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, when you're being paid at the end of that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I just think he's running to like like the rest of the NBA, especially when MJ was reaching his prime.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: You just can't guard him, man.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: You can't guard Wemby, and that's fine.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I get you know what everybody reaches a plateau or reaches a limit on what they can do defensively.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: Most people, some people don't.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Prime Draymond Green, Dennis Rodman, those guys, they're they're anomalies, so I'm not counting them.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about like there are guys who come in the league where again you just you can't do anything with them, couldn't do anything with before Joker sort of like starts slowing down a little bit last year, really a year before, like you just couldn't do anything with them.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, couldn't do anything with MJ, couldn't do anything with prime leBron.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you just try to do your best to mitigate what he could do.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that OKC is trying to do that, you know what I mean?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I just, you know, I don't think I know I uh it feels like Chet could can't do anything with him, and Rudy Gabert couldn't do anything with him either.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, there are times where you see Wimby just sort of like he'll miss a shot, but he knows he's gonna miss it because it's well defended by Chet.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um he'll just sort of throw the glass, throw the ball up in the glass with an expectation that he's gonna go and rebound it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he's he's he did it time and time and time.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I Chet, I don't think I just don't think he's got that dog in his DNA when it comes to him.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um maybe he's a little intimidated.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't see that narrative changing for him in the near future.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: What about you?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess that's why they they play the games.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um it it appears as though maybe he needs help.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if he really can't hold up, it seems like a sound strategy would be to double Wemby more often and then force the young players to actually deliver coming down the stretch in important playoff games.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: They can only do that with uh, you know, maybe you can't, I don't think you can do that with a sales guy, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can't now I would do that if they ever enter a combination where um Carter Bryant, um even Dylan Harper or um uh those guys are on the floor at the same time and there aren't any more leaders on the f on the floor, uh, and then force them to score.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I think that might help.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I think their coaching is way too smart.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um they the Spurs coach clearly got he clearly got uh Greg Popovich on in his ear.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he probably got an earpiece on, you know what I'm saying?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like Pop just speaking into his ear.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not saying that's actually true.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying that's what it appears to be when I see the way he's coaching his coaching.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but by all accounts, Popovich has an open line where he's able to provide input.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So and I think that's great for for them.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is your actual hope though?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you want to see in the NBA finals?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well I would like to see Spurs Thunder go seven games, so that would certainly be um be entertaining.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um Knicks are certainly surging.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've probably been playing the best over the last month or so.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I don't think that's a controversial statement, so you really can't um count them out.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: With them, it appears as though um Carl Anthony Towns has been re-energized and playing better, um, more active on defense, other kinds of things going either, though.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Going on.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So with him, um, can he be, I guess, the matchup for Wemby that I might have hoped Homegrin can be, where he gets outplayed, but the margin is small enough that the rest of the team, you know, is able to um to be successful.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um, as a result of it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: On its face, you know, Carl Anthony Towns is is not a bum at all.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would say he's better than Chet Homegren by a mile.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um by leaps and bounds, I'd say.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: In today's NBA, I would have to think about which one I would want on my team.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because on balance, if I'm recalling correctly, Chet was first team all NBA defense this year.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not looking great in this particular series, but usually he's stout and brings an element that Towns will never be able to bring on the defensive end.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Look, he's got a couple of spectacular blocks, but you know, you know, so you're saying you want OKC and Spurs to go seven games.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want it to go seven games.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's a hard to watch.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this series is hard to watch as it is.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm a Spurs fan, and I'm still saying it's hard to watch this again with the falling on the ground every play and the the cost playing like you're like you need to go to the ER, every single player, every single play.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like they tried it out.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think the refs have have sniffed them out quite a bit, and they did not fall for it at all.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then Harkenstein tried to do the whole pulling on his arm, Wimby's arms, and try to trip them and all.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: They weren't going for any of that either.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they'll go back to OKC and get some home cooking.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so but continue.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: What what do you think?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so you're saying, wait, well, wait, are you what who do you think wins the series then?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do still think OKC wins OKC um uh first.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think until the champions have lost, um they're still the the champions.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they the margin was big yesterday, but they were they were flat.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it didn't seem it seems as though OKC didn't show up and play well.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they had a bad game.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they had a bad game.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how much it tells us about what things are going to look like moving um moving forward.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um so we'll see.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe slightly modifying things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm confident that I still remain confident that OKC would win against the um the Knicks.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's some chance, maybe with the Spurs, their um lack of experience, but I still think I would favor the Spurs over the Knicks.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Bro.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: If because of Wemby's transcendent um uh mobility.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it all comes down to Wendy.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wemby again, front and center.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um how far is he going to be able to drag the um the Spurs?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe that they are a very good team.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that looking at the state of them right now, I see an NBA champion.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um if the stars align, you know, they certainly are in a position where they can um potentially pull it up.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't see the stars aligning, is that what you're saying?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying I can see the stars um aligning.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I still feel like they're probably a year away, but they're here now, and they when you have the best player, you have a chance.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's what I would say.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, here's they have the best remaining player um that puts you in a position to win.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: My rebuttal to that is yes, they are the defending champions, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: But the the uh sorry.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: The the Spurs have um some championship DNA as well, right?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: They do.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: They have Harrison Barnes.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: How many has he won with he won two or three with uh he has the background, I'm sure he's a great locker room influence, but is that gonna translate on the court, I guess, because it doesn't need to, it needs to translate in the locker room.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: You have someone with high playoff experience.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Darren Fox has at least been in the playoffs a few times uh and has played against the best of the best when it comes to Steph Curry and LeBron James and and guys like that when in in the playoff environment.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then you have Luke Cornett who is also a champion.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: So you have guys who have who've been who are key pieces on your team, literally top to bottom, who have multiple championship experience.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: So they have a collection of of at least guys who can sort of talk about and and the second thing is like you know, once you're in the playoffs, you're in the playoffs, and you have run the gauntlet, like you're you've run the gauntlet.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Once you're in the gauntlet, you're sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy to a degree.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I do yes, I do take that into account when it comes to a guy, you know, saying like you know, maybe they're a year away.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: I get that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, because you know, once you're in the playoffs, you sort of learn from your experience in the playoffs.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: They're in the playoffs now.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're learning from you're learning as you go, you're building a plane as you fly, so to speak.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing I'll I'll say is Wemby took uh with a ragtag group in France, and I'm not saying they're bad or anything, but France took um took the USA with the three kings, three of the top 10, if not top 15 players of all time, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Steph Curry, it took a heroic effort from from from a someone with godlike ability, god tier skills, playing a god tier game, yeah, in what essentially was a playoff environment, um, to beat France and Wimbin Yama in the Olympics, and that felt like a playoff environment as well, especially because it was literally you know, winner go home at that point, like you're playing your best and your hardest and your most level-headed game um possible.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you have you had some experience there.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I don't want to discount uh it's easier for people to discount that, but I think that counts for something.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's true, but you know, there were other guys on the France team for for sure, and it's my recollection that Bilau wasn't it 100% as well.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that was like a challenge on the um the French side.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think they were set up to have a better team, but it goes to your point.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Wimby was certainly great in the Olympics.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: It shows he can be the I don't have any doubt that he can be the best player on a NBA championship team.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's obvious.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just are the other pieces around him really ready to um to go to finish that out.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I guess that becomes the open question.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: My other interest, and again, I'm a I'm a sp I'm a legit admitted Spurs fan.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: I have been.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: You can check my credentials.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have a look, look at this, look at this joint.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: I have a Wimby rookie basketball card in my hand that that Henry is seeing right now.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: God is my witness.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm a legit Spurs fan.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: I have been since since the days of Dave Robinson.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm from Texas, by the way.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you all know that by now.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um the the other thing, the reason why I am rooting for the Spurs to win, and I I think they're gonna pull it out after this.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't think they were gonna after last night I didn't think they had the DNA in them.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly didn't.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Last night they showed me they do.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: The reason why I do think that it's great for them to go to the finals, especially against the New York Knicks team.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, think about it, bro.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Think about the think about the the the whole vibe of the New York Knicks being in the NBA finals again, like again, after a long hiatus.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, this is a big, big, obviously media market.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: This is one of the most popular franchises in all of sports and all of MB of all of the NBA, playing in the NBA finals in the in the basketball mecca of the world, Madison, Madison Square Garden, against the next quintessential face of the NBA, who has who is otherworldly, who has captured our imaginations in a way that we haven't seen since Prime LeBron, really since Jordan, honestly, if we're being honest.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't seen anything like that since then.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um seeing those two teams and those two sort of dynamics go against each other, I think is can't miss television.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can't miss television.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think people will be pissed off in general if they have to watch OKC beat up on the Knicks for four to seven games.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't think that just makes for good compelling television.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: It didn't make for a good Super Bowl to see Seattle and and uh the New England Patriots in the Super Bowl.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want that BS again, bro.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: We want good narrative-driven control, like we want optimum level basketball play.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it seems likely we we very well might be underestimating the um the Knicks.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I think my analysis is that so they've been playing great the last monsoor or so.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's been different for them is I don't believe that you can win a championship with Brunson as your best player.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: It appears as though, in this iteration, Carl Anthony Towns is their best player, and uh Brunson can kind of have not been watching the games.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the the score, I think it goes beyond the the scoring impact is one thing.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It appears as though Towns is impacting the game in different ways than he had previously, absent his level of play, because Brunson always has always played like that typically in the playoffs.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: To get over the hump, it will come down to Carl Anthony Towns.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what will decide whether the Knicks win the um the championship.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: If he continues his current level of play, then they have a good chance.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think I I think I think um Mike Brown's coach coaching move, which I should have just called him and told him this in the beginning.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: He should have listened to me.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh when putting putting um Carl Anthony Towns sort of at the top to sort of like control how plays are sort of executed and sort of like just be the guy that the ball is distributed through.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: Brilliant move.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent genius level basketball intellect um move from Mike Brown in that regard.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I so in that regard, I do agree with you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think it running through him is just great.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I think against OKC, it's actually a pretty good thing.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't think it's a good idea with the Spurs.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I just don't know if that will work.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm going back on that.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Reason why it does work is because Carl Anthony Towns can shoot the three better than Chet.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um it takes Wimby out of the lane.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now you have to guard Carl Anthony Towns at the top of the key even further outside, and Wimby can't just sit back and rim guard the entire time.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's I mean, maybe they'll maybe they'll uh the Spurge can fix that by maybe starting Cornet, but you don't have another big guy other than Cornet to like he can't stay in front of Carl Anthony Towns.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's true, it's true.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the trade-off.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: There is a trade-off.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there is a dynamic where you say, okay, Cornette, you know, face guard him at the three, Carl Anthony at the three, and make put him in a drive situation, a pass or drive situation, so that Wemby can come out and then sit sit in the lane.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then maybe they'll do that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, maybe they'll do that.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: If they do do that, then I'm a genius.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: If they don't, forget I said it.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: But that be that as it may, that's the outcome I want to see.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, I want to see the Spurs win it all.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's good for basketball.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's good for Nike.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: No one buys his shoes, by the way.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know what it is.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe we need another American superstar, but because I don't, there's not one coming, guys.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just telling you.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Look at the last like 12 MBs.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know how many MVPs.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's been like seven.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: None of them are American, not a single one.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Cooper Flag has a chance, maybe, to do it at some point in his career.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Possibly.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: He has zero chance.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm here to announce right now, as good as Cooper Flag, as long as Wimbinyama is in the NBA, unless he takes a year off and gets hurt, like he did like a year ago, um, there's zero chance.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it was serendipitous that that uh Wimby had to take off with the blood clot because it allowed them to get Dylan Harper, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but Wemby, I'm just here to tell you, uh, Max Kellerman said this nonsense.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: He said Wemby, he said that Cooper Flag will be the best player in the league in like three years.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: But then he also put a caveat on it and said that set as he said set aside Wimbin Yama for a second.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: They honor, did you see that?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah when he said that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um he said, set aside um Wimbin Yama for a second.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um Cooper Flag will be the best player in the league in the next like three.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm inclined to say, you know what?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I think he might be right.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I just don't think his star, he doesn't again, he doesn't like defy imagination the way we used to see some of our NBA heroes in the past do.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Anthony Edwards to me was the closest guy, and he just doesn't want it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like he Anthony Edwards can fly.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: He can literally poster anyone.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Postering has become like it's no longer special anymore, by the way.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: Except when Wimby does it and when and when Anthony Edwards does it, end of list.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh seeing a seven foot-six dude shoot from 30 feet away and literally make 50%.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's shooting 50% from three in these playoffs in the uh in this um not the playoffs, but this this uh round.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: Against um against OKC.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Shooting seeing that is just weird.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't your brain is trying to follow and quantify it, and all you can do is just sit in awe and just watch it, man.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: So like, you know, maybe maybe that will happen.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: All I know is I want is I want the Spurs to play.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: The New York Knicks.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And win or lose, I'm fine with the result.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I want the Spurs to win, but I just think it makes for exciting, compelling.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I I would guarantee that the NBA final rankings would reach a record level.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like it, I just that's not a hot take.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just think it will.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: So um, we'll have to see, but you know, maybe SGA will also learn how to land on his feet every now and again.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, can I say something about that by the way?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about this.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, Yes, SGA does a lot of flopping, but for someone who you know he does that full extension push-off and then he steps back, uh this is coming from someone who's played college basketball.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um at some point as a player, you learn how to fall.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if this makes sense to people, but what I mean is when you sense someone in your airspace, you learn how to sort of uh relax your legs as they come down, as you come down, so that you fall down instead of the possibility of turning your ankle on someone's foot, knee, body part, whatever.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, when you're coming down.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Normally that only works.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: I and it I'm just telling you, I don't even know how to explain it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's on instinct for me and for people who've turned their ankles in their life before.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you just sort of, especially when you're in the paint, this really only happens when you're rebounding or going up for a really high contested crowded lane, you know, layup.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: You sort of just let go of your legs and just take the fall because you don't want to land on anyone's foot.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, was is he just doing that constantly?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because other than that, none of none of none of it makes sense.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm I'm I'm genuinely curious if that's the case.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'd like to if he ever talked about it, I would love to hear that conversation, bro.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, we'll see.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else on this?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's all I have.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we'll see.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: Ghostburns go.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: Ghostburns go.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so you know, next topic, we're gonna talk about the uh let's talk about the NAACP.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen this, Henry?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: The uh uh what's going on?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know remember how what's sort of can you set it up?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember how it sort of described uh in the news?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So so yes.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So from my understanding, the NAACP is encouraging student athletes to essentially boycott um universities in certain southern states that have certain essentially tried to gerrymander um with respect to voting, um voting representation.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I was looking at it earlier today.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think they said they wanted to target athletic departments with a budget of a hundred million plus something along those um those lines.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: So they're basically all high division one schools and the SEC specifically.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so to recap, the the NAACP is has called for a boycott on all SEC schools in states that um have gerrymandered uh their maps purposely removing black representation after the Supreme Court, for those who uh don't know and don't know, gutted the uh the voting right voting rights act, uh essentially defanging, you know, it didn't remove it completely, but they have defanged the um provisions or whatever you would call that in the uh the voting rights act uh passed in 1968.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so this legislation um, you know, making laws you just is the thing, like legislation after this voting rights act thing, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: If you think of how legislation passed, every you remember that you know back in the day, this is I am a bill.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care about it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, schoolhouse rock, right?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: You've everyone has who is of a certain age remembers that that sort of video.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if you haven't, if you're younger, go I mean, go look it up.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone knows about it.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: But essentially the reason why I bring it up is because you know legislation takes time, right?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Conveniently, uh Florida, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, all these states have big time SEC schools in them, right?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: They all moved um with the quickness to change their maps uh and essentially remove black representation um from being elected into congressional offices.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is a level of organi the institutional racism that we haven't seen in a very long time in an organized way.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Legislation takes a long time to get passed.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've never seen Usually it does.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Any usually it does.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: It will go fast with mega consensus, especially on a national level, right?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, tenant all these schools have all these states have like borderline trash schools, they have bad crime, they all have issues that they need to uh that they could fix through legislation.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but none of them have done that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: But they saw it fit to move with the quickness um with baited breath, waiting with baited breath, and as soon as the the the ruling came down, couldn't wait to make sure black people were disenfranchised and couldn't vote.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so the NAACP has a little bit of a a point here uh in terms of hey, let's say let's see what we can do, let's boycott the schools, um, and see if we can get young people not to go to them.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's a few issues I have with this, and I think you do too.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have um structural issues, I think I guess with the the proposal.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what the first thing that stands out to um to me, and I I'll say um before I get to this specific point, on the broader Voter Rights Act conversation, it is a long story that includes many congressional failures to act over several decades.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a separate conversation as well, um, including periods in which Democrats were in power.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: There were things that needed to be fixed by legislative means that for whatever reasons it kind of languished and that didn't happen.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's part of the accountability conversation that also needs to be um um to be had.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think more specific to this, my concern is I think the the failure to provide really um I don't I don't see it as a serious plan because I've not I've not seen any metrics.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that means a few things.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, in preparation for this conversation, I tried to find any kind of estimates of economic impact.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't able to see anything along those um those lines, how many students might be impacted?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: What do you really want to um to happen?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've not really seen what I would expect to see in terms of a um a substantive plan.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say something.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Can I say something right?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh to your to your thing, I'm like, okay, did you guys just sort of blatantly come up with this plan because like what's the end goal?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't see I haven't been provided with any kind of analysis, like a straight line between if X number of students, you know, right choose to not go to Alabama, then this is how the pressure is going to be, you know, be put on their legislature, they're going to reverse course.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't I don't know that to be um to be realistic, but I think it is concerning the um the absence of any kind of analysis along those um those lines.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: How is it actually going to work?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: It also doesn't seem to account for current students who um don't, even though it's it's trending towards the Wild West, they don't have unlimited transfers.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens for the students that are currently are is the expectation just with respect to incoming freshmen, or are people who are at these schools supposed to enter the unclear the transfer?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: For um transfer portal.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of lack of clarity for a situation that essentially creates a dynamic where students could be called a sellout for pursuing these kinds of um kinds of opportunity.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the um the lack of detail is what's concerning to me, and it kind of suggests that it's more kind of uh um more performative, like it intended to elicit this kind of conversation more so than actually getting to the um the heart of the underlying um issues.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I will say as just as a philosophical rebuttal, not that this is a not that this is like literally what NIL has made the whole conversation about how any player can basically transfer and make money, uh all this stuff has like really thrown a wrinkle and it makes this much more viable in terms of players being able to just walk up and be like, hey, I'm out, I'm going to Ohio State.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm a four-star recruit from Alabama, five-star recruit from Alabama.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, fine, I'm gonna go to Oregon now because your state doesn't want, doesn't welcome black people.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know what I mean?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like they can, NIL can has made it where given students, athletes, the flexibility to do it.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: The problem is it's like, okay, you're calling for it, but there's no organizational sort of like there's no campaign, no sort of like central nervous system.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like for this to be taken seriously, the NAACP needed to be able to say, we have these 10 five stars who are already on board with this plan.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then roll that roll that's already a thing.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like just roll it out, just be like, hey, here, these are it 10 isn't enough.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: Be like, here's 25.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, not not even athletes coming on.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: These are here's the 10, here's the 25 best athletes in the SEC, and they're all together at this coalition, the the players club or whatever.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: They but they built this coalition, and they are the ones deciding that we are no longer interested in your uh your schools, we're going to take our services elsewhere.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: If they had done like that, bro, like man, the noise that would have made would have sent reverberations.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: And even then, do I think that would have worked?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, literally ask yourself does all these players leaving to go to these schools, leaving from these schools to go elsewhere, are are these state legislatures gonna suddenly turn around?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're they they aren't going.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, they're gonna they'll be losers forever.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: They'll be like, at least these black people can't vote.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you picked a good example with Oregon because I think you get into I think it's dubious to suggest that um schools in other states should have any kind of stamp of approval with respect to state um racial issues.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, so Oregon, for example, um, I understand there are certainly progressive currents there, but they are also one of the states with the highest number of white supremacist groups as well.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: True, but they're not that's not the issue at hand.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: The issue with hand is the issue at hand if they're going to stick to it, which I applied, like, okay, every state has a thing, right?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: They have a thing.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in Indiana, right?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's be let's be real.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: Let's be real.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like all these states have things, but they're talking about specifically pertaining to the gutting of the voting rights act and your specific action to uh gerrymander um black-led districts out of your state, even though you have, like Louisiana, three-fourths or whatever of the people in the state are black, 20% represented by black people, right?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's like those are arbitrary numbers.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just throwing them out, but that is something similar, symbolic to what is actually going on in Louisiana.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: So don't come at me.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: There are deeper concerns because I think even with respect to the concept of black representation, um, it is my understanding that many of the actual black people in the South are not fully satisfied with their representation, even when the people are black.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the metrics that are being used here in terms of I feel like the NAACP should be focused on identifying the positions that are held by black people broadly in America and bringing truth to power surrounding those positions.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like I I question the assumption that um black representation in terms of somebody being black being the representatives is always a straight line to the interest of the black people being um being represented.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's more nuanced.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like the it is more nuanced because not all skin folk skin folk.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: And all and it is a democracy.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh just because you are in charge and you make a decision doesn't mean it's actually gonna happen, right?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or it stands for an issue.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing that is like really interesting, um, now that they have the NWCP's name raises as an idea, is like, you know, yeah, I'm I'm glad you mentioned the part where it's uh schools with like you know money of a hundred million dollars or more, because I'm like, you know, schools in Georgia, like Georgia State.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just picking on Georgia for a reason, for not really a good reason, but I'm just you know, yes, right.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: You have Georgia Southern, you have um yeah, Savannah State, you got like you have schools like that, right?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Who you know you don't necessarily want black people to leave, and what if it's a state with like HBCUs in it, right?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like you don't want people leaving black folks leaving those schools because they want to boycott the state.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then secondly, what if what if there's a scenario where you know I know a kid, I know a father of a kid who has uh a fantastic basketball player, great basketball player, um, is deciding to go to a Division I school uh in the SEC.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's got a full scholarship uh offer.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: As far as I know, it may be the only big offer he's gotten, and all the other offers have not really come in yet.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: What is he supposed to do?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Try to shop himself.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: This guy's still in high school.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: High school recruiting is actually not as good as it used to be, both in college basketball and football.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: What if what if he doesn't really get the offers he wants and he won't and and not only that, it's a lifelong school.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sports fandom runs deep for a lot of families.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: And if you get recruited to say Texas, that wasn't the school, by the way.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you get recruited to the University of Texas, because I'm again I'm from there, if I had gotten recruited to the University of Texas, I would have bled orange.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would have walked barefoot to Austin uh and bled out before going anywhere else because I loved the love the University of Texas growing up.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was, you know, it would have it would have been essentially it would have been akin to uh a childhood dream to play for the University of Texas, and now you're you're putting me in a spot as a as a student athlete to choose.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's a little bit tougher than that.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's not any substance on which to make a choice.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's why I feel like it's um I think it's irresponsible to make this public until you were in a position to actually convince some people that you have enough of a plan for it to be viable.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's like putting the cart before the horse.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely, absolutely.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like still, like, on what grounds today can you advise a young person to forego scholarship opportunities in the the SEC?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's no reason to believe that it's gonna actually be a thing beyond conversations and think pieces and like what's gonna happen again.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_03: Can you at least guarantee that like can you guarantee that it will make an impact?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you're asking young people who, by the way, don't pay attention to any of this stuff, uh, to really put themselves on a line.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, think about sometimes.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I this is unfair, it's fair but unfair comparison, right?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: Think about um it can backfire what I mean.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like think do you remember um and I'm picking on your armor matter, I'm sorry.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: Maker, maker, right?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, top 15, top 10, top five, even recruit um in basketball.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember what year, I think it's like 2019, 2020.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um decides it had to be 2020 because uh on the heels of the the protests uh that happen started happening, uh the Black Lives Matter protests that happened when um George Floyd unfortunately got um killed by a police officer.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um this guy decides he's gonna take a stand in his own way.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: He decides he's gonna go instead of like to all the any of the blue chip schools, which he could he had any any school he could have gone to, uh, decides he's gonna go to Howard University in um in our nation's capital, which we're where we live, and um play basketball instead.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and he's doing this just to sort of make a point and try to get others to follow in his footsteps and go to stop going to all these colleges and giving them all this money that's the support.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I had a a different view of his motivations and perhaps a more more cynical.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I never got the sense that he had really political um motive motivations because again, I think for for context, he was a highly regarded high school player, but in terms of um NBA draft projections and things along those lines, um, from what I saw, it was maybe second-round pick.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things where high level, in terms of how he had been slotted with respect to his upside and potential.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: So currently he's not in the NBA.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: He came to Howard and underperformed for a year.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: My observation was always that he saw it as a way to market himself and to stand out in a way that wasn't going to just happen based off of his skill set.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm only taking it on face value based on what he said.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: He he has numerous statements saying that he wanted to go here and sort of build a movement of black athletes going to these um to these back to these HBTUs to try to build the profile so that they become on the equal footing as someone like ABA in Illinois, you know, in Ohio State, you know, one of those schools, right?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: And um ultimately he was whether or not you think he's he was gonna be recruited, he was highly recruited, taught, thought I know he had an offer at Texas.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's one I specifically required that he could have gone to Texas.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: Thought he had an NBA trajectory as well as many others, and he underperformed, and who knows what good coaching would have brought him.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um had a chance to who knows what it happened if he had gone to say Kansas or North Carolina, and he decides to go there and ends up going uh to to Howard, ends up going undrafted, now plays in a professional league in like Australia or something, right?
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, like and now you are you know the NAACP, you're sort of asking students to make um uh a sacrifice in in this same vein, which I just I don't know.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: And to that point, like I for this thing, I'm like again, if you want change, if you actually want change, not just NAACP, but America, if you actually want change and you want these um corporations to change their mind, I just don't think it goes far enough.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we need to be looking at businesses in these states, and I know we've had a little bit of conversation.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that should be the whole thing, should be boycotting the companies that are headquartered in these states, and then they'll bring to bear pressure on the legislature if they actually start to lose uh money.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like I said, something like this with no projections of financial impact or how it's going to um to work.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not, it doesn't have the seriousness to match the severity of the threats that we're um um that we're dealing with.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those things where it's like I can just pretty confidently say there's zero percent chance of it working.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not even like a um and for the NAACP, I guess, to find itself in a place where it's like these are the kinds of proposals that are being brought um brought forward.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of said it seems like kind of a de desperate attempt to recapture relevance or um legitimacy where there's not really anything substantive, um substantive underlying it.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna have to play the the view, the thoughts and views of this person on the podcast.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, no.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: I get that part.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_03: All I'm saying is, yes, it could be more thought I yes, it's not, I don't think it's necessarily a publicity stunt.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it may it almost sounds like this all this all came out in the form of a tweet or something like that, you know.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, but like going back to this notion of the the businesses, and I'm I'm directly talking, I'm I will send this podcast, and I know we're a small group and we don't get a lot of listeners yet.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna send this idea to the NAACP because if you're just looking at it on its face value, right?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: The idea that we're presenting now about boycott boycotting businesses, right?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_03: Just look at Tennessee, for example.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: You have headquartered in Tennessee, FedEx.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: If everyone stopped using FedEx, black, white, don't matter if you believe in this cause, that the if you believe in the voting rights cause, and Tennessee is one of the people at the fore is the state at the forefront making all these changes to uh gut the voting rights act in their own states because it's now legal to do so.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's um uh uh FedEx is there.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: If we all stopped using FedEx, the in the the the impact they would make in that state would be insane.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: Insane auto zone brothers would stop going to auto zone.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: What would happen?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Headquartered in Tennessee, Dollar General.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: We all are falling on hard times now.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Dollar General's like IPO, I think they're about IPO, went up like like 400, and I'm not even exaggerating, like 400% in the last few months because of gas prices and everything going up.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: People can't afford nothing.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: So they're going to Dollar General.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: Dollar General is making bank right now.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: Don't believe me, go Google that joint.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: If we all stopped going there and boycotted all three, and there's more of these businesses in Tennessee, that would make an impact.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: This whole sports thing is all surfacey performative stuff, right?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: If we were to make an uh an economic impact on these businesses in Tennessee, they would have to start thinking a little bit differently, given, I mean, it might take a while.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: It maybe, maybe they would, because my best understanding, for example, with the whole thing with Target, right?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: Was like maybe their numbers were like down three or four percent from where they wanted to be, and there were a lot of factors that could have contributed to um to that.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was one thing, you know, in the civil rights movement with the bus boycott where you're dealing with one entity, you can say, okay, we're doing things it's directly affecting their they just don't have customers.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they don't have customers, it's a big um, a big thing.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard for me to picture really what we're dealing with.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're in a crisis in American democracy, right?
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the amount of money that would be involved to kind of set a different course, it would almost be like black people just withdrawing from the mainstream economy.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: What would that look like I'm saying it's I feel like that's the the caliber of financial divestment that would be required to run against these currents that are committed to the politics of their community.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: If only black people are doing, I'm talking about all people, I'm talking about all caring Americans.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: If you are an ally and you're not a racist, you're anti-racist, whatever label that you want to call it.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: If we all decided today in mass that we're not gonna shop at FedEx, AutoZone, Dollar General, and that's just for Tennessee.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: There's a ton of them in all these other states.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_03: Texas, Alabama, you know, all of them have them.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: All these all these places have um um big business headquartered in those states.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: That would be above the NAACP's pay grade.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: You would have to have something like is I can't see that being a position that the Democratic Party, for example, is going to take on.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're talking about mobilizing broad political, you know, support for something related to African Americans, I think it's kind of unprecedented.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: It is sort of the challenge that we're but that's where we're at, though.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: We are in unprecedented times and unprecedented measures need to be taken for change.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_03: So if if there is a movement um that can grow organically because or that's how they start, they never start from the from the top down, they're always starting from the bottom up through grassroots, passionate um people who are desperate for change and will do anything to make it happen.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if that can happen, maybe so.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe the NWCB can be a part of that that narrative.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that I mean the whole Black Lives Matter thing, even though it's sort of gone haywire, this as it started, it started with like just some regular people online, right?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: It didn't start with like big corporations jumping in to start it or big uh democratic institutions um sponsoring it.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: It started with just people.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the same thing can happen here, uh, although that these big organizations that that ha are sort of like grandfather um uh organizations, they are institutional Star Wars for uh African American people and rights, like the LDF and WCP, and uh obviously they used to be together now split.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: But there's lots of other or organizations.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: What if the poor people's campaign decided they want to get involved?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's lots of different ways.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: How that's not for us.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's that I think that's obviously for um for others to talk about, but at least we brought up the idea.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: At least we brought up the idea.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I'm actually looking forward to seeing I I'm short.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would just summarize by kind of saying I think um the proposal underestimates the kind of economic impact that would really be necessary to get at a seat at the table.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: It would have to be much broader boycotts of corporate interests beyond just sports teams at a handful of universities.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think at the very end, like me and you agree that it's like the bottom line is like let's think bigger.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh let's go for things that can actually like make an actual impact.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: And even that still may even that still may not be for naught.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, we'll see.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um all right, next, uh, you know, in the end, this is stuff that doesn't matter uh in the end, but and this may be all do much ado about nothing.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: But as you guys saw, uh Jackson Dart, you know, what do you you know I'll I'll just say what he done, bro?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_03: But Jackson Dart introduced uh Trump at a rally, and some people on the internet have just lost their freaking minds about it.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um because but are we really are we actually really surprised?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think everyone knew that's my thing about Jackson Dart.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think everyone already knew this information about Jackson Dart, and it just sort of like let it go to the side.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: But the minute he introduces introduces Trump at a rally, it becomes like like a this huge controversy.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: I do think that he shouldn't have done it.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um but am I surprised?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, Jackson Dart came on stage to introduce Trump, and people are acting relatively you know, outraged, and then Abdul Carter um pretty much immediately came on.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um he's uh he's a teammate of uh Jackson Dart on the New York Giants.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um he came out and and said something to the effects of like, hey, I thought this was AI or something like that.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_03: So he claps back on Twitter.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um immediately the internet goes into a frenzy, and then um he comes out and he sort of squashes the whole thing, it's not causing locker room divisions, like like people are just trying to push that narrative.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't none of us know actually know um if that's causing locker room divisions, but on on Jackson Dart, like let's just call it what it is, he likes to sort of cosplay black culture, yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a mechanism for those that don't know like look, you want All the good stuff about us, you want to talk like us, right?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: You have culture, you have black culture overtones, co-opting the way we talk, the way we dress, you know, doing the sort of flexing on camera, the way that we do.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: But when it comes to but then comes out in blatant support of people like Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, um, who most of us black folks consider to be uh relatively racist, right?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um not just racist, but the poster child or the spokesperson for modern day American racism.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: So of course, you know, some people are going to feel that way.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about Charlie Kirk, who has had a lot of stuff about to say about black people and black women, about black intelligence, about Martin Luther King.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so of course, when Jackson Dart gets up there and talks like that, people automatically sort of like automatically start thinking about all that stuff and they channel it on to Jackson Dart.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, Abdul Carter didn't like that.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, look, that's actually fine.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: But some players and former players were like quick to call out and condemn um Abdul Carter.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually kind of like in a way I kind of agree.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hey, keep it in the locker room, blah blah blah.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: Jackson Dart didn't, Jackson Dart didn't.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, that's another conversation, but you know, I do kind of agree.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, let's go and like have a chat and say, hey man, I just want to let you know you crossed the line, I didn't really like that for etc.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: etc.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: etc.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: But then this guy, um former player uh tackle or whatever, um, Brendan Fajoko, uh, former player, went on Twitter.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Remember what I said?
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: Abdul Carter went on Twitter and and said, Hey, is this cosplay?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or I thought this was cosplay on Twitter.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Brendan Fajoko comes on and said he was an idiot.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he told him to, and I'm not even joking, shut the F up and dribble.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and in in the sports world, as you know, like shut up and dribble is a racist dog whistle, and everyone knows it.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Brandon Fajoko is like Polynesian, like right, person of color.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: But if he sat there out loud and repeated a racist dog whistle, a person to color, telling another person of color to shut up and dribble, it basically makes all the racist white people stand and applaud for that.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: On top of that, he said he's he said he shouldn't he should he said that he shouldn't have gone on Twitter and said it.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that he should go to him like a man in the locker room, yada yada yada.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then he felt emboldened to use literally the exact same platform to call him out, call him an idiot, and then shut up and dribble on a video that he made um talking about Addie Warter.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, you know, to me, this was like bargain basement critical thinking on Fajoko's part.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's Walmart dollar general level assessment.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_03: To me, you didn't use your brain at all to call out him on Twitter and then go on Twitter and You know what I mean?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are a lot of things, and obviously, as is usually the case, more than one thing can be true at once.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it's important to kind of point out the the Jackson Dart archetype, where I believe uh a big component of Trump's winning coalition in the last election was um younger younger white men.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: The data bears um bears that out.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe that within that constituency there's kind of a um, I guess for lack of a better term, a belief that my appreciation for certain aspects of black culture um inoculates me from accusations of racism.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So even if my politics are very conservative and they're, you know, along a certain line, you know, I'm wearing Jordans, I'm playing rap music, maybe having um chains, so maybe somehow that establishes a kinship, you know, of um of culture.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's concerning because I think that's something that I've seen um personally, you know, in many, um, in many, many instances.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um bigger picture, it it presents a a quandary because um Donald Trump is obviously very divisive in the current political, um, political culture.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: The response is um um it's a heated one.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, any stated support for um for Trump, it resonates differently, at least to us, than it would potentially if, you know, you had um an athlete appear with President Obama or somebody on the Democratic side.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things where on a s at a certain high level, I can sort of understand the fairness concerns where can some people express their political views um and others others can't.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's just it comes down to is Jackson Dart, well, he's not primarily a political, um, a political actor.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I guess maybe he's choosing to prioritize politics in a different way.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: The judgment that I would call, without even getting into the the specifics of the politics, is I can't see a scenario where it improves things within his locker room.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if I were a starting NFL quarterback, um I would want the focus to always be on football.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I certainly can see scenarios.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I recall um this was during the first, um, I guess it would have been 2016 when Trump um first came.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was an article about the NFL, and they were talking about how um divisive Trump had become in locker rooms.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where people were saying, you know, I had people that I I they were my friend up to this point, but I didn't feel like I could be their friend anymore.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: After I found out that they um and there's a lot that could be said, you know, about um um could be said about that, but it just seems to set up the potential for um for there to be um for there to be distraction.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think the bigger point is I'll say I wouldn't have had the same response if he were not a person who, again, like you suggest, kind of cosplays black culture, yeah, and then um takes different stances, I guess, in the um in the public with respect to his um um his choices.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's my general understanding that the giants aren't especially pleased about the situation.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure they're not.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: So yes.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure, like, listen, it's it's freaking May, bro.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, by the time the season starts, this will all be again for not, it will all be just water under the bridge.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing that sort of goes like unspoken or unthought about, even in these conversations, is like, you know, Fahoko and the other guys who are criticizing Abdul Carter for talking about it, don't seem to get that it's not just about, hey, this is you supporting this guy.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_03: It is when you see that happening to a person who gets offended by it, right?
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: They're not offended that you support a person or don't support a person.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_03: They are offended on behalf of the people that they are that are being affected.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Black unemployment um just at the very end of last year reached 8.3%.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Black people are getting fired and they're losing their jobs and their livelihoods and upending their families left and right because of actions directly taken by this administration.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Abdul Carter is deeply embedded in his community and probably sees some of that.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_03: He sees all the ways that people of color are being disenfranchised and set aside as second-class citizens in this day and age.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_03: And he is sort of channeling that into this like one little incident.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And all you can, all some people can do is look at it on a surface and say, this is just some uh bang, I support so-and-so supports somebody, it's bad.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So-and-so supports somebody else, it's good.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's way more than that.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is it is not just support of somebody, it is the way it is the harms that those people have caused people, and people need to understand that when Abdul Carter is is making that comment, maybe he's wrong for doing it, but it that's an opinion that anybody can have.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_03: But if you if people can think a little bit deeper about it, say why is he doing why would he do that?
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and he's doing it for a very for very specific reasons that it go beyond just whether somebody and and by the way, everyone does this when everyone's oh C free support who he supports.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you are, but you have to think about when it's it goes beyond just someone supporting somebody on a surface level, which I which I you know I think gets lost in these conversations.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's true, but again, I think people tend to exaggerate the significance of stating their political positions, um, or engaging, I think, in the social media conversation about um about things where my critique kind of of the whole the whole shut up and dribble thing, I feel like people um I guess people are entitled to express their viewpoints.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not always the case that the viewpoints are especially well thought out or part of any kind of strategy to um to actually elicit or promote any kind of um kind of change.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm of the camp and I don't know the nature of Abdul Carter's um philanthropic.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Who's had issues on his own, by the way.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yes, that that could be that could be a concern.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just say my viewpoint is that it's more it's more constructive to me as opposed to athletes or celebrities um stating their um positions on things which people can agree or disagree, they're uniquely positioned financially to actually support things as as well.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it becomes one of those things where participating in the online discourse about something is not a reasonable substitute for actually helping things, especially if you're in a position to um position to pay um to pay money.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So every time basically that I see, not to count somebody's pocket, but every time I see an athlete like you know commenting on a social issue, I don't really feel like that's gonna persuade anything.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But they are potentially in a position to do something in their community or in their world to actually help or impact, yeah, um, impact people.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it it kind of goes to again um overstating, I guess, the significance of individual voices, be it Jackson Dart or Abdul Carter, in the overall political conversation about these these topics.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of feel like put your money where um where your mouth is.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess maybe going back to one of the other topics.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, if NFL people are really displeased, where's the fun?
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, we don't want players to go to the SEC, so all the NFL players create a fund to make people whole potentially, or something like that.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Giving ideas away for free.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, the um actually utilizing because people's minds aren't going to be changed.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've come to the realization that this is these are not issues where stating your opinion is likely to really influence, on Twitter is likely to influence um people, but there are other ways, I think, to um um to influence the um the process.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, definitely for sure.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um so again, I you know, it's some it's a thing that happened.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_03: People are talking about it.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_03: There is more significance to it under the surface, and people just need to get there to your to your point too.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Put your money where your mouth is.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, again, saying stuff is easy.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Saying you're outraged about something is easy, but what are you gonna do about it?
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and that goes for every single person of privilege and power and a certain financial level in the United States who can who are in positions to do something about it.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't have to only get involved every four years, you don't have to get involved every time there is a political moment or something that happens.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because again, a lot of people can think that that is just simply performative and that you don't really care about this issue the way that you say you do because you don't put your money where your mouth is.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's time for people to do that.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, true.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you see it on the the other side where um conservatives are they're committed to their plans.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Boy are they're if they're they're gonna be able to do that.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_01: We just saw a goddamn golden statue put up in Florida, 20 foot whatever like so yeah, so they have a different investment in their um their issues where it appears as though you know they're willing to see the United States fundamentally crumble if it means that certain hierarchies are maintained.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something where I think um Democrats or progressives, however you want to characterize that, really struggle to match that energy.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's really it's an intellectual exercise, yeah.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Commonly thinking about it, whereas they feel it in their bones, their positions on these issues.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, people on the on the left are not want to have like, you know, well, let's just slow down a little bit and let's think this first.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just uh you know, we gotta look at all the laws and look at all the blah blah blah.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Other side ain't doing that.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Other side ain't doing that.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas, you know, not to go into it, and I'm not even gonna go into it.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_03: The other side is just not doing it, to your point.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and maybe that again, bigger conversations need to be had on these issues, but the internet doesn't have time for bigger conversations, we have time for clicks and rage debate and you know, likes, and again, going back to the attention economy nonsense.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: The earlier conversation, I think, is part of the responsibility of organizations like the NAACP to step outside of that dynamic.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they shouldn't be setting up conversations, like I said, that um it's really largely rhetorical.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_01: They should be presenting reports saying we've looked into the impact of NIL and all of these things.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what the data says, here is how we feel like we can use that to our advantage politically.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not contributing that kind of real analysis, somebody got to do it, then it becomes constant spin.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that it should be within the organizations to do scholarly research.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_03: What I mean is what I mean is the opposite.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, someone has to be the one to bear the torch after the research is done.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but to your point, the research has to be done first.
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_03: You have to, if you're just saying something that isn't going to work, then why do it or say it at all?
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have better, more well thought out stuff than that.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because the other side is doing that, right?
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I have to cut us off here.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_03: We've been listening we've been talking for a long time.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm tired, I'm thirsty, I'm hungry, bro.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_03: But excellent conversation.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Lots more to be had in the coming, lots more conversations to be had in the coming weeks on really all this stuff.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I hope the New York Giants implode.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_03: They have John Harbaugh, they have a promising young core, uh, and they play in the NFC East against the Cowboys.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I just don't like that.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope they, full disclosure, fall apart because of it.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm and I'm not kidding.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not joking.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I hope they fall apart.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you as a commies, sorry, commanders.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a Freudian slip, guys.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like the commanders, even though I live in our nation's capital.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Freudian slip.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I hope they employ some somehow.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Dang, y'all have any goddamn white players.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um Luke McCaffrey.
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_03: Luke, where you at?
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_03: I need you to come out, you come out to the 250 celebration at the White House and make a big show of support for Donald so that your team can also implode and the Dallas Cowboys can win.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, all right, man.
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's uh good good talk.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that's all the time we have.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you like the show, share it, uh like it, uh, listen to it wherever podcasts are.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you for joining us on State of Play.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_03: Later.