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JotPsych: Making Time for Presence and Creativity For Behavioral Health Clinicians with Nathan Peereboom · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist podcast. Plus listeners can listen to episodes early
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Speaker 1: going to Apple Podcasts searching for the Trauma Theaverist podcast
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Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma Nevers Podcast,
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Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson, and my
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Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us. Here we go, Nate,
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Speaker 1: you ready to do it? It's okay, all right? So
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Speaker 1: five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome back
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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm very excited to have us my
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Speaker 1: guest today, Nate Paraboom. Nate, welcome, Thank you so much.
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Speaker 2: Great to be here, guy, awesome.
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Speaker 1: So. Nate Peraboom is the CEO of Jotsyke, one of
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Speaker 1: the amazing sponsors proud to have for this podcast. Jot
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Speaker 1: psych is a best in class aiscribe for behavioral health clinicians.
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Speaker 1: Software reduces documentation time by around ninety percent for psychiatrists, psychologists,
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Speaker 1: counselors and therapists, and since it's commercial launch sixteen months ago,
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Speaker 1: jot psych has scribed over seven hundred thousand patient encounters
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Speaker 1: across the US, KINDA, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Damn Nate,
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Speaker 1: that's a lot. That's a crazy amount.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it blows my mind every time I see the numbers.
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Speaker 3: I think that we're part of a real shift in
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Speaker 3: the industry right now where people are saying, you know,
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Speaker 3: we want to take excellent care of our clients. We
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Speaker 3: want to pay really special attention to our patients and
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Speaker 3: the people were trying to serve. And part of the
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Speaker 3: way we're going to do that is by leveraging AI
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Speaker 3: to get all the admin work out of the way. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, exciting. We're going to get into that in more detail.
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Speaker 1: But before we do, before we do anything, share with
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Speaker 1: the listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 3: Okay, So I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio. For those
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Speaker 3: of you who have not been to the great city
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Speaker 3: of Cleveland, Ohio, it is a hospital town. Both my
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Speaker 3: parents are in medicine. My dad is a neurooncologist and
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Speaker 3: my mom is a palliative care nurs practitioner. And so
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Speaker 3: I grew up in a very medical medical home and
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Speaker 3: now I live in Washington, d C. I've kind of
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Speaker 3: migrated across the Midwest to the East coast, and this
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Speaker 3: is where we call home.
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Speaker 1: So obviously with that background, we could see the connection there.
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Speaker 1: But give us some more specifics. How did all this
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Speaker 1: start for you? How did you get to this point?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, if you're around anyone who works
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Speaker 3: in behavioral health or medicine writ large, you know that
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Speaker 3: administrative work documentation is absolutely exploded over the last two decades,
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Speaker 3: and it came from I think a good place. The
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Speaker 3: US government wanted there to be structured medical data. They
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Speaker 3: wanted that structured medical day to be shareable and interoperable
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Speaker 3: across providers and across clinicians. But the only way to
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Speaker 3: create that data for twenty years or so has been
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Speaker 3: to have clinicians, therapists, counselors manually inputting you know, notes,
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Speaker 3: manually writing notes. And this is just absolutely exploded, the
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Speaker 3: amount of time that people are spending on this. And
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Speaker 3: so I saw this with my parents. Both my parents
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Speaker 3: are really assiduous clinicians. They just spent a huge amount
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Speaker 3: of time caring for their patients but also doing all
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Speaker 3: this afterwork. You know, they call it pajama time. I
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Speaker 3: think that's the term in the industry. And so I
3:36
Speaker 3: ended up not going into medicine. I don't want to
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Speaker 3: say because of that, but it factored into it. And
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Speaker 3: when I went off to college, I knew I was
3:45
Speaker 3: really really interested in technology. So I went to the
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Speaker 3: University of Chicago. I studied econ and molecular engineering, and
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Speaker 3: then afterwards went into technology. Worked for you know, five
3:57
Speaker 3: or so years across different and and about three years
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Speaker 3: ago I set off to start my own my own company.
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Speaker 3: And at the same time, I was you know, I've
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Speaker 3: been really good friends with my co founder Jackson since college,
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Speaker 3: and we both were really interested in how artificial intelligence
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Speaker 3: was changing what it was, you know, we were following
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Speaker 3: it and we wanted just sand you know, a sandbox
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Speaker 3: to play in. So I said to him, I was like,
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Speaker 3: you know, let's just spend two hours a week working
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Speaker 3: on this problem. Like what if my mom didn't have
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Speaker 3: to write a note from scratch every time? She still
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Speaker 3: has to read it, you know, she still has to
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Speaker 3: do some editing. You know, there's stuff that's unset in
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Speaker 3: a visit. But what if we could take away that
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Speaker 3: first draft And I'm blown away by the pull that
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Speaker 3: we've gotten from people who are also interested in this problem.
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Speaker 3: I mean, it was incredibly easy to work with people
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Speaker 3: in in the medical field, you know, doctors, nurses, therapists, counselors, psychiatrists,
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Speaker 3: And what that allowed us to do is really quickly
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Speaker 3: develop a product that people loved. So that's kind of
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Speaker 3: how we arrived here. It really started out as a
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Speaker 3: two hour a week project that was just based in
5:10
Speaker 3: remembering what it was like to grow up at home
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Speaker 3: in Cleveland.
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Speaker 1: It's very interesting, you said, econ, And was it molecular engineering?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.
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Speaker 1: I mean Jesus, And then you've got you've got those pieces.
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Speaker 1: You have your parents who are so very interesting background,
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Speaker 1: but you come from an interesting time when you're right
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Speaker 1: kind of in the in the midst of AI. There
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Speaker 1: are a lot of people, I mean, let's get the
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Speaker 1: elephant out of the room here. A lot of people
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Speaker 1: are like, you know, w T f AI. How am
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Speaker 1: I going to incorporate that in this kind of sacred
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Speaker 1: relationship I have with my client? I don't know, how
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Speaker 1: do you deal with that? What do you say to that?
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Speaker 1: How do you respond? Yeah?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that there are kind of two categories
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Speaker 3: of response. The first is just to look clinicians in
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Speaker 3: the eyes and look therapists in the eyes and say
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Speaker 3: you're right, Like, AI is something that is powerful, but
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Speaker 3: it is something that needs to be really carefully handled
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Speaker 3: and really carefully constructed. And one of the benefits of
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Speaker 3: jotsych is that we've gone to great lengths to provide
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Speaker 3: all the Hippa infrastructure that allows ambient recording and note
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Speaker 3: taking to be something that's really safe at a technology level.
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Speaker 2: So I'll just give you a few examples.
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Speaker 3: We have, like the very first layer of our software
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Speaker 3: in jot psych redacts all identifying patient information. I mean,
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Speaker 3: that's a pretty amazing thing because what it means is
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Speaker 3: that you can actually take a note that is completely
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Speaker 3: devoid of all the information that would tie that note
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Speaker 3: back to a singular human being, and it allows you
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Speaker 3: to work with the note in a way that that
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Speaker 3: just has a very small surface area privacy wise. Now,
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Speaker 3: later you can tag the note to the patient if
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Speaker 3: you want to, like kind of start creating a patient
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Speaker 3: history or client history, but not necessary. We also use,
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Speaker 3: you know, the highest standards of encryption. We store and
7:16
Speaker 3: Hippo compliant facilities. We only work with partners that have
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Speaker 3: like healthcare specific contracts with us, so we're really really
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Speaker 3: careful about that, and we never train on any data.
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Speaker 3: We never send your data to a company that would
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Speaker 3: train on it. So so that's the first thing. The
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Speaker 3: second thing is I think that there's a really really
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Speaker 3: significant betterment in modality when you're allowed to really be
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Speaker 3: present with you know, with your client. And I guess
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Speaker 3: i'll just give a small story. I actually haven't spoken
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Speaker 3: with very many people about this, but when I was
7:48
Speaker 3: in college, I needed to go see a counselor and so,
7:53
Speaker 3: you know, I was just going through you know, everyone
7:55
Speaker 3: goes through things in college, and you know, I was
7:56
Speaker 3: going through a time and I went to a counselor
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Speaker 3: at our schools Counseling center.
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Speaker 2: And I walked in feeling very vulnerable.
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Speaker 3: And that counselor, i think, in part because they probably
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Speaker 3: were worried about documenting everything, just really did not make
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Speaker 3: me feel very safe. I kind of felt treated like
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Speaker 3: a piece of cattle. And I never went back. And
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Speaker 3: I think that that view, you know, it was such
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Speaker 3: a harmful moment for me in that point where I
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Speaker 3: was really needing to be witnessed in a full way
8:31
Speaker 3: that it really also locked into my brain. This idea
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Speaker 3: that allowing clinicians, allowing therapists, allowing counselors to be fully
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Speaker 3: present with their clients and to really fully witness them
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Speaker 3: as human beings is something that is going to dramatically
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Speaker 3: change the openness to therapy and also the outcomes of therapy.
8:55
Speaker 3: I mean, there are studies that show that the single
8:58
Speaker 3: biggest determinant of whether or not therapy actually works is
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Speaker 3: the human connection that a therapist has with their client.
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Speaker 3: And that's exactly what we're trying to really maximize for here.
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Speaker 1: I love that. I love that story. I appreciate you
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Speaker 1: sharing that. So taking a step back here, what is
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Speaker 1: jotpsych give us the broad picture totally.
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Speaker 3: So jot Psyche has started out as an AI scribe.
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Speaker 3: So you walk into a room, you click start, you
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Speaker 3: do your encounter with your client, you click done, and
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Speaker 3: you get a full note and that note.
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Speaker 1: Is on my phone, on a computer or on the
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Speaker 1: at what.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can record on your phone. We've got
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Speaker 3: a Chrome extension. You can just use our website. But
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Speaker 3: it's essentially listening to the conversation and it doesn't retain
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Speaker 3: any audio, so we don't actually hold any audio files.
9:50
Speaker 3: It's one of the counterintuitive things that the people don't
9:53
Speaker 3: initially understand when they think about AI scribes. But what
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Speaker 3: we allow you to do is create documentation that's consistent
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Speaker 3: and that's completely sensitive to your you know, content format
10:05
Speaker 3: and styling preferences. So we know, I mean, this is
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Speaker 3: one of the really exciting things about trauma care right now.
10:12
Speaker 3: There's an explosion in the number of modalities that people
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Speaker 3: are spending time in. You know, there's traditional like you know,
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Speaker 3: for lack of a better term, like talk therapy, but
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Speaker 3: you know, ketamine is kind of exploding right now. Obviously,
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Speaker 3: the psychedelic world TMS is really big. There's all sorts
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Speaker 3: of like sub segments within you know, within therapy itself.
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Speaker 3: So you know, we talk to folks who work with
10:38
Speaker 3: kids in schools and that's its own that's its own space.
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Speaker 3: You know, we work with methadone clinics that are really
10:43
Speaker 3: interested in the way that trauma interacts with opioid use
10:47
Speaker 3: and and you know, communities that are.
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Speaker 2: Affected by that.
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Speaker 3: And so what we've tried to do is give give
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Speaker 3: folks a base AI scribe that is hyper hyper specific
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Speaker 3: specific for psychosocial behavioral conversations. So we've got over seventy
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Speaker 3: different modules you can mix and match create the perfect note.
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Speaker 3: But we also anytime you change something in a note,
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Speaker 3: our software learns and so over time you get actually
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Speaker 3: a note that is perfectly reflective of what you would
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Speaker 3: have written had you just taken a pen and paper
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Speaker 3: and written it yourself.
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Speaker 1: So, just to kind of reiterate here for our listeners,
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Speaker 1: let's say I'm a therapist clients coming in, I have
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Speaker 1: jot psych on my phone, I put my phone down,
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Speaker 1: I hit click, and it goes. It's recording, it's recording
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Speaker 1: the information, it's uploading it to the website, but it's
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Speaker 1: not retaining it.
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Speaker 2: So we don't retain any of the audio file. What
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Speaker 2: we do is we.
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Speaker 3: Take the transcript and we scramble that transcript up, and
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Speaker 3: then we use that transcript to write each individual section.
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Speaker 3: So I'll give you an example. We have some clinicians
12:04
Speaker 3: who are very interested in dreams, you know, their followers
12:08
Speaker 3: of you know, Carl Jung, and they believe that their
12:11
Speaker 3: medical note, or their clinical note or their therapy note
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Speaker 3: should have a section about the patient's perception of their
12:17
Speaker 3: own dreams, what those dreams actually are, how they interact
12:21
Speaker 3: and dialogue with them, what they mean. And in most
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Speaker 3: medical software you just can't do that. It's so rigid,
12:29
Speaker 3: or it's made for someone who practices primary care and
12:31
Speaker 3: so you know it's all you know, medication based, or
12:34
Speaker 3: it's you know, looking for vital signs. But what we've
12:36
Speaker 3: done is we've allowed folks who do behavioral health and
12:40
Speaker 3: who have really sensitive, unique nuanced records to build those
12:46
Speaker 3: records in an automated way that again allow them just
12:49
Speaker 3: to be super present in the room.
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Speaker 1: When I was talking to one of your colleagues, Adam,
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Speaker 1: about this, he was when he was describing it to me,
12:59
Speaker 1: he said that there are different templates that therapists can
13:04
Speaker 1: can choose from to kind of what make it more
13:09
Speaker 1: unique for them to them, which I think is phenomenal.
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Speaker 1: So what I love about this, and what you were
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Speaker 1: saying about initially up front, was that you just put
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Speaker 1: put it down, put the phone down there, hit record,
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Speaker 1: and then it allows you to be present. It's like
13:27
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry, oh my god, that I
13:29
Speaker 1: catch that they're going to they're talking about something, and
13:32
Speaker 1: then you're you're thinking about something else, trying to remember
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Speaker 1: that this is allowing the clinician, the therapist to be
13:40
Speaker 1: completely in the moment.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, at the end, if you decide, hey,
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Speaker 3: I don't want this note, or i'm you know, I
13:50
Speaker 3: want to just put into my EHR, or I want
13:52
Speaker 3: to store it in my own place. If you click
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Speaker 3: delete on a Jotsie note, it's gone forever. So it's
13:58
Speaker 3: really designed to just be a tool that helps you
14:01
Speaker 3: do whatever you want to do in however way you
14:03
Speaker 3: want to do it.
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Speaker 1: What have you heard in terms of pushback from people,
14:10
Speaker 1: I mean, things that you want to make sure you address.
14:15
Speaker 1: I'm curious because it seems to me like in a
14:17
Speaker 1: sense and maybe things are changing tell me. But some
14:22
Speaker 1: people could say, again, bringing something like this into the
14:27
Speaker 1: room is almost antithetical to what I'm doing trying to do.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I think that people do feel nervous
14:37
Speaker 3: about talking to their clients about jot psych And it's
14:43
Speaker 3: really interesting because once someone does, once you bring it
14:45
Speaker 3: up once or twice with a with a client, I
14:48
Speaker 3: think people are blown away by how receptive the general
14:51
Speaker 3: public is to these tools being in the room. So
14:54
Speaker 3: the way that we encourage folks to talk about jot
14:56
Speaker 3: psych with their clients is to say, hey, I have
14:59
Speaker 3: this tool that helps me take better care of you.
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Speaker 3: It helps me be present, It takes more accurate notes
15:06
Speaker 3: than the notes I would have written, and it follows
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Speaker 3: all the laws and all of the you know, best
15:13
Speaker 3: technical approaches to security and privacy.
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Speaker 2: I don't have to use it if.
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Speaker 3: You want, I can, like, you know, I've got my notebook,
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Speaker 3: I've got my laptop.
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Speaker 2: It's not required.
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Speaker 1: But if you would spend two hours doing notes.
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Speaker 3: No, I mean, it's all on the way you do it.
15:31
Speaker 3: You know, we don't want anyone to feel pressured to
15:34
Speaker 3: do that, but you know, the way that you talk
15:36
Speaker 3: about jot psyched to your clients is material to their
15:39
Speaker 3: comfort with it. We've never heard of pushback that ended
15:44
Speaker 3: someone's use of jotsych. We've heard certain patients be like,
15:47
Speaker 3: I just really don't want this recorded, but that's not
15:51
Speaker 3: ever stopped a clinician or a therapist from using jot psyche. Now,
15:56
Speaker 3: I want to acknowledge something that's kind of interesting and actually, guy,
15:59
Speaker 3: I'm curious for your view on this one thing that
16:03
Speaker 3: we're hearing. And I don't mean this in any kind
16:06
Speaker 3: of political way. But we have heard that people are
16:09
Speaker 3: more sensitive to the collection of medical information over the
16:14
Speaker 3: last several months, that there's an attention being paid to
16:18
Speaker 3: the way that repositories of information about people's gender identities, backgrounds,
16:23
Speaker 3: immigration status, et cetera. And I think that that's another
16:27
Speaker 3: place where we are doing We're really keeping our ear
16:30
Speaker 3: to the ground in terms of what makes everyone safe
16:34
Speaker 3: and what makes everyone feel comfortable and what makes everyone
16:37
Speaker 3: excited to use an aiscribe like jot psyche and so,
16:41
Speaker 3: you know, to that, I would say, you know, we
16:45
Speaker 3: want to give you all the control. So if you
16:47
Speaker 3: would like to configure jotsite so that it never retains information,
16:52
Speaker 3: for example, about someone's gender identity, or never contains any
16:55
Speaker 3: information about immigration status, or auto deletes your note after
17:00
Speaker 3: or is you can do all of those things, which
17:01
Speaker 3: is really powerful. So yeah, I think that ultimately like
17:08
Speaker 3: this this is coming, like people like AI is going
17:11
Speaker 3: to be a part of everything that we do. And
17:14
Speaker 3: the you know, we want to hear from people who
17:18
Speaker 3: who have opinions about it, who are in you know,
17:20
Speaker 3: the therapy world, who are treating people affected by trauma
17:24
Speaker 3: and say, hey, I wish I could use JOTS like,
17:25
Speaker 3: but there are these six things that need to change, Like,
17:27
Speaker 3: we're very receptive to that. One of the things that
17:31
Speaker 3: I think a lot of software people like myself get
17:34
Speaker 3: wrong in the behavioral health space is they are overconfident
17:40
Speaker 3: about their ability to predict and to understand what therapists
17:45
Speaker 3: want and what actually is the right thing for them.
17:48
Speaker 3: And you would never do this with like a cardiologist.
17:49
Speaker 3: You know, you never go to a cardiologist office and say, hey,
17:52
Speaker 3: I have the software for you and you're going to
17:53
Speaker 3: like it. But a lot of folks in the therapy world,
17:57
Speaker 3: I think, are like the people the public is generally
18:02
Speaker 3: overconfident about what they believe therapists should do and how
18:05
Speaker 3: they should operate. And we at our core in our
18:08
Speaker 3: DNA are are really really resistant to that view. You know,
18:13
Speaker 3: we spend you know, hundreds and hundreds of hours just
18:16
Speaker 3: talking with therapists. I probably have three hundred customers who
18:20
Speaker 3: have my personal phone number. I'm gonna have to change
18:22
Speaker 3: my personal phone when I'm done with this company because
18:24
Speaker 3: I just have too many customers who text me and
18:26
Speaker 3: call me. But the upside of it is that we've
18:30
Speaker 3: done a lot to make JOT psych reflective of what
18:33
Speaker 3: therapists want rather than what we at a first principles
18:37
Speaker 3: level would build if we if we didn't talk to
18:39
Speaker 3: them about it.
18:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I mean you had me
18:43
Speaker 1: at you know, it redacts all the identifying information of
18:48
Speaker 1: the client. That is crucial. I mean, I think that
18:51
Speaker 1: alone will set a lot of therapists at ease. Being
18:56
Speaker 1: hipocompliant of course is huge, but a lot along with
19:00
Speaker 1: that though, This idea of you know, not having to
19:05
Speaker 1: worry about catching everything and being able to be present
19:11
Speaker 1: and in the moment because you've got because it's being
19:14
Speaker 1: recorded safely, securely, that is crucial. That is crucial. And
19:23
Speaker 1: I don't want to say especially for people who work
19:26
Speaker 1: with people who've been impacted by trauma, but I will
19:30
Speaker 1: say that people who work with people who have been
19:32
Speaker 1: impacted by trauma, that relationship is crucial obviously, and it's
19:39
Speaker 1: crucial for everybody. But I have a very strong feeling
19:43
Speaker 1: that a lot of therapists listening to this would be
19:47
Speaker 1: put at ease with that and be looking forward to
19:53
Speaker 1: being able to be at ease and to be more
19:59
Speaker 1: open and more creative too. That's another thing. When you're
20:04
Speaker 1: present you're able to be more creative. You're not worrying
20:08
Speaker 1: about all the other admin stuff that needs to be done.
20:11
Speaker 1: So that's one of the things that I really love
20:15
Speaker 1: about this.
20:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's such a good point regarding the creativity.
20:22
Speaker 2: I was.
20:24
Speaker 3: I was biking to the office today and I was
20:25
Speaker 3: thinking about sometimes I go into these daydreams where I
20:30
Speaker 3: think about all the really amazing ways that patients are
20:33
Speaker 3: gonna and patients and clients are going to be served
20:36
Speaker 3: by our software. And I had this image in my
20:41
Speaker 3: mind of like a lake, like a lake that was
20:44
Speaker 3: kind of mysterious where you didn't really know what was
20:46
Speaker 3: under the surface. And I imagined a scientist going up
20:50
Speaker 3: to that lake and being handed like a pad of
20:52
Speaker 3: paper where they had to you know, essentially be writing
20:57
Speaker 3: down in you know, answering questions about what they saw
21:00
Speaker 3: in the lake and you know, maybe there's a fish,
21:02
Speaker 3: maybe there's some plankton, maybe there's like, you know, some
21:06
Speaker 3: algae on the surface. And I thought about how different
21:11
Speaker 3: that approach is, you know, where you're writing down just
21:14
Speaker 3: what you know to ask like the unknowns, so to speak,
21:18
Speaker 3: versus a method where a biologist were to approach that
21:22
Speaker 3: lake and take a sample of the water and go
21:25
Speaker 3: back to a lab and say, hey, you know what,
21:26
Speaker 3: for the next five ten years, if a new methodology arises,
21:31
Speaker 3: if new research comes about that allows me to understand
21:34
Speaker 3: this water better, I've already got the water and I
21:37
Speaker 3: can run it through and I think about this with
21:40
Speaker 3: you know, there's I'm forgetting who said this, but you know,
21:43
Speaker 3: my dad's a neurooncologist, and I'm kind of aware of
21:47
Speaker 3: I'm very aware of how hard everything related to behavior
21:50
Speaker 3: and the human mind and the brain is. There's someone
21:52
Speaker 3: who said the human brain is as known to us
21:56
Speaker 3: as the surface of the moon. The amount of change
22:00
Speaker 3: and research and development that we're going to enjoy over
22:03
Speaker 3: the next ten twenty years is enormous. And part of
22:07
Speaker 3: taking advantage of that is having unstructured medical data the
22:11
Speaker 3: pond water, so to speak. And I think that that's
22:15
Speaker 3: one of the really exciting things about about feeding to
22:19
Speaker 3: your point, the creative process that we want clinicians to
22:22
Speaker 3: be walking through when they treat, uh, when they treat clients,
22:25
Speaker 3: you know, to say, hey, this new paper came out.
22:28
Speaker 3: It's about the relationship between you know, a GLP one
22:31
Speaker 3: inhibitor and depression or a GLP one or something like that.
22:35
Speaker 3: And to be able to actually find all your you know,
22:38
Speaker 3: clients who are un you know, ozebic or something like that.
22:41
Speaker 3: It's so hard to do without without having that, as
22:44
Speaker 3: you know, structured data.
22:45
Speaker 2: But now we are in the moment.
22:46
Speaker 3: This is the moment where AI can can be leveraged
22:49
Speaker 3: to essentially keep the water and continuously study and improve
22:53
Speaker 3: the way that we're treating it. So so I think
22:56
Speaker 3: that the creative options for research being actually effective in
23:02
Speaker 3: terms of like touching clients and patients is absolutely enormous
23:07
Speaker 3: and I'm so excited about and I think that jotsch
23:09
Speaker 3: is going to be one of the companies that really
23:11
Speaker 3: drives that and help support that process for clinicians who
23:14
Speaker 3: and therapists who choose to pursue it.
23:18
Speaker 1: That's awesome. So as you kind of wind down here,
23:21
Speaker 1: share with us and our listeners how therapists can get
23:27
Speaker 1: involved with this, what do they do, how do they
23:31
Speaker 1: get ask us to it?
23:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if you go to jots like dot com
23:36
Speaker 3: you can start a free trial today. I think we
23:39
Speaker 3: have a discount code TPP and guy, you can explain
23:45
Speaker 3: more about that. But here's what I want people to
23:46
Speaker 3: know one setup doesn't require credit card. Setup takes three
23:51
Speaker 3: minutes truly, Like you can go in clickstart trial. Three
23:55
Speaker 3: minutes later you can create your first note, and you
23:58
Speaker 3: don't have to do it with a real client start out.
24:01
Speaker 3: I think that one thing that I've loved seeing is
24:05
Speaker 3: people playing with the software with their friends and family
24:07
Speaker 3: and getting comfortable with it before they bring it into
24:11
Speaker 3: a clinical setting. So that would be my recommendation. If
24:14
Speaker 3: you feel any hesitancy, just use it with friends or family. Again,
24:17
Speaker 3: it's free, there's no credit card swipe, and after you
24:20
Speaker 3: do your trial you can decide whether or not you
24:23
Speaker 3: you want to continue. But that's the best way. It's
24:26
Speaker 3: like seeing is believing it's magic. You you try it
24:29
Speaker 3: a few times and it's really really hard to go back,
24:32
Speaker 3: So that that's kind of the easiest way to get started.
24:35
Speaker 3: But the other thing I would say is email me
24:38
Speaker 3: if you you know. If you email contact at jots
24:40
Speaker 3: like dot com, that's contact at jots like dot com.
24:43
Speaker 3: You can send us feature requests, you can ask for
24:46
Speaker 3: access to our beta features. You can participate in our
24:50
Speaker 3: clinical advisory board if you'd like to. So there are
24:53
Speaker 3: a bunch of different ways to be involved. We see
24:55
Speaker 3: everyone who touches our software either you know, becoming a
24:59
Speaker 3: customer or not become make a customer as a partner,
25:02
Speaker 3: and we have a really really deep sense that we're
25:05
Speaker 3: going to be in this ecosystem for a long time
25:06
Speaker 3: and we want to know you, we want to understand you,
25:09
Speaker 3: we want to learn to serve you better and better
25:10
Speaker 3: over time.
25:11
Speaker 1: I love it, love it all right, Nate, Awesome, I
25:15
Speaker 1: mean I love this. I'm glad I got to talk
25:19
Speaker 1: to you. So that's jotsite dot com. Simple, Okay, Yeah,
25:26
Speaker 1: we'll have that linked up here at the show notes
25:28
Speaker 1: page at the Trauma Papers podcast podcast dot com. Nate,
25:32
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here. We'll
25:34
Speaker 1: be in touch.
25:35
Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much for having me guys.
25:37
Speaker 1: Take care, all right, take care? Do want the mom
26:04
Speaker 1: of sin Sa