Latest / Luke's English Podcast / Joe Rogan Experience _2456 - Michael Jai White

Transcript

Joe Rogan Experience _2456 - Michael Jai White · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Check it out.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: But Joe Logan Experience, Train My Day, Joe.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Rogan podcast by night all day, You'll shoot it up.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: You got a wild card boxing. You had on Bruce
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Lee's shirt.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Come on, hey, we got the yellow and thing going on. Yeah,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you got it all going on. What's happened? Great to
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: see you, man. Things are really well. This thing is
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a little.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Loud, is it? There's a on that thing there, there's
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: a little volume.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, you can turn that.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Last time I saw you was a Terry Black's barbecue.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, random run in there.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was crazy. That was crazy. Yeah. Man, I
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: was thinking about going there right after this. I'm like,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: what Terry Black places no joke rules? Yeah, man, are
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: you still in what? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, what was it like?
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: It's cool? Man?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Is it you like you're the only person that says that. No.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, because okay, I defend l in a way
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: where first of all, if you got to handful of
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: good people with you, you know, yeah, and your family,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: then it is so the fact that LA has all
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: kinds of different things. You could be on a hiking
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: trail in twenty minutes.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: You can be geographically yeah, amazing.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the weather. You can't oh, you can't be
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: So if you got good people, good friends with you, yeah,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: then it's all good.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: You just run by crooks. It's a nice neighborhood run
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: by the mob. It's run by the woke mob. But
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I mean geographically, you can't beat it. You could be
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: at the ocean and then you can be in the
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: mountains in two hours.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, that's that's even if you
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: don't partake, it's still cool until amps up the Dante rip.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like the spot itself is magical. It is
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a magical place to live. Although I am deeply concerned
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: that that motherfucker is going to get hit with a
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: big one.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So it's about time, right, Yeah.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I was reading this article about massive earthquakes in California
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and how often they're spread out, and the possibility of
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: one of them happening within the next decade. It's very high.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I tried not to think about that.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I try to think about it too.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but you know, and now you can. I
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: think they have better detection of that stuff now too.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It's better.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter they can't detect well,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: do you remember what happened in Italy. A couple guys
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: got arrested and went to jail. They were seismologists because
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: the company, the country rather didn't understand the ability to
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: detect it. They had a big earthquake and a bunch
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of people died, and so they blamed these geologists or seismologists.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: They wound up winning in court on appeal because eventually
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: the science was revealed, like, hey, there's no fucking way
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: you can really tell. But they hung these guys out.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: They blamed these guys on not being able to detect it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Man, Well, I mean, you just think about it. The
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: last crazy ones was seventy two and then ninety four.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was ninety three. I came I
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: moved to LA right after the last big one. I
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: saw one of the sections of the highway that had
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: collapsed on the other one. I remember driving by, going
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: fuck this place.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I was in the middle of that one. I just
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I came into La over you were there, dude. I
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: don't even like to tell the story about what happened
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: during that ninety four earthquake, oh, because it sounds like bullshit.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: But literally I got I got up, ran out of
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: my house, my apartment at the time, jumped off the
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: balcony and watched it happen.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: You watched the house collapse.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I watched the earthquake happen from outside. Oh it's it's like,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: no bullshit everybody. So I thought, oh shit, I overreacted.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I had a bad dream. I lived on a first
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: floor of this apartment building. All I know is I
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: wake up. I'm off balance, catching my balance in the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: parking lot right, and like, oh shoot, I gotta find
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: a guard to get me back in the in the
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: apartment building, right, And I'm thinking, what, you know, what,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: what's like I've lost my mind or something. The next thing,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you know, everything shakes and the lights go out, just
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: go just everything gets black. And so I'm backing. I
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: retreat back because I'm thinking the building is going to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: fall on me. And I'm like, wait a minute. Then
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I got the the story from everybody else that that
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: experienced it. They said that the first thing that happened
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: was the building shook and the lights went out. Well,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I was outside watching that, So I'm outside when it happened.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Like I made you jump over the I don't know, dude,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: or did you have like the first it was the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: first rumbles.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I thought I thought it was. I thought I reacted
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to the like some kind of an aftershock or some
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: kind of rumble. No, because the girl that was with.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Me, he left her in the apartment, dude, all she knows.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: She said, you jumped up and you ran out of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: You ran out of the house, and I heard the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: door slide, and that was and then the next thing,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you know, everything shook. She couldn't she was trapped in
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: there because there was a closet door that trapped trapped
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: her in the hallway. So when I got back in
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the place, me and a friend had to try to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: pry the door open because she couldn't get out. But
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I ran out of that place before the earthquake actually happened.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: How weird. Yeah, you got good instincts.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell that was. It must
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: because I don't even like telling that story because it
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: sounds like bullshit because it really happened that way. Then
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the guard, I talked to the guard, I'm like, hey,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: when did the lights go out? Oh, it's shook and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the lights went out. I'm like, I'm watching that happen.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: So you felt it happened before it happened.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Some kind of weird way.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Why bad humans have that. Animals definitely have that. They
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: talk about Thailand, how they had that tsunami and all
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: the animals ran up to the highest point of them
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: of the island. They all just took off. It's like
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: they just knew instinctively.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know nothing like that has ever happened afterwards,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: but I gotta say there's been. I've been lucky over
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the years.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're a dude who's tuned in. You're tuned
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: into your body, you're tuned into your environment. You're not
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: going to get caught slipping like you probably felt something
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: and your Spidey sense went off.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I kind of have been like that growing up,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: like I've been, you know, I've been on my own
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: since I was fourteen, been through crazy shit that you
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: normally would see on movies.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: And that's the type of shit that those kind of instincts.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, and I was always the one that said,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: hey let's leave, let's get out of here. And then
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: hey man, there was a shootout that it just happen
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: right after you left, or I could detect like the predators,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I grew up kind
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: of that way.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Right, because you have nobody looking out for you. Yeah,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: nobody was looking out for you. You have to look out
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: for yourself.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I was, Oh, I was. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: was like always the junior of the group a lot
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of times, because, like I said, you know, I've been
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: on my own since I was fourteen. I haven't grown
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: it since I was thirteen fourteen, I was. I looked
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like a grown ass man, right. I was fighting in
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: tournaments at fifteen against you know, grown men, like you know,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: fighting heavyweight at that time. But I was always hanging
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: with older people kind of you know, kind of like
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I got away with kind of living as an adult
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: early on because.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Like, did you work?
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was teaching a karate school, a karate class.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: What was doing? What was what was happening to see?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I used to hang out at this community center in
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the hood. At this time, I moved from from Brooklyn
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: to Bridgeport, Connecticut, Right, Bridgeford's Yeah, yeah, it was a yeah,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: we had the top murder rate per capita.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Man like Bridgeport's rough.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. So I was constantly I mean there's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: a community center that was like my haven, and I
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: would go practice with me and my other karate nuts,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And so I'd be in the in the
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: paper for winning heavyweight you know, competition or whatever. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: so the people that was running the community center said,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: why don't you teach a class? They thought I was
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: an adult? Ohous, And so I was teaching like a
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: you know, like kind of like just under the table.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I was getting paid under the table basically. But I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: had like close to two hundred students early on, like
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: when I'm fifteen, sixteen.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Oh that's crazy.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, it was kind of kind of
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a trip that you know, which is one of the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: reasons why I was a father at fifteen, you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: because I had one of my students' older sister, you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it was like had a crush on her, on his instructor.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: But I was kind of living the life of a
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: grown up like early on. And so you know, there's
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: there's a faction of people in Bridgeport who think I'm Satan,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I guess because they think that I'm probably in my
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: seventies a vampire, right. Yeah, So there was there's some
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: people I had to admit like, uh no, I wasn't
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the age you thought I was. Back then yeah, but
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I mean so yeah, you know, one of the things
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: that I I'm really grateful for is growing up that
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: early and having to you know, use my instincts and
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: being that you know, street fighting and fighting was like
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: my favorite thing to do actually, and so with when
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I got into the martial arts deeper and everything else,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I just I just really I really dug
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: into it and wanted to learny I left the style
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: and this, you know everything. I was just a martial
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: art nerd for it. But I also liked the the realistic,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: partial portion of it, even though I was doing other
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: styles like wo shoe and everything else, but you know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: it was it was actually my haven somewhere.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Eddie Bravo has to find this video. There's a video
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: of us working out together at Legends where we were
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: talking about hopping sidekicks and different types of sidekicks, and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: you threw out there was a bag that we had
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: that had a shitty chain, but regardless, you threw a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: hopping sidekick on that chain and the chain snapped and
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: went flying. The bag went flying, and Eddie Bravo was like,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: what the fuck. It's a funny video, man, I know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Eddie has it somewhere. I'll probably I'll text him after
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: this and try to see if he could put it
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: up on his Instagram or something.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeh, find it. Yeah, back the man, we were training
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: when it wasn't even popular. You know, I see you
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: in the gym all the time. Yeah, all the time, man,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and you were just think about this. Do you know
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: it was twenty nine years ago last time you interviewed me. Yeah,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that's rights ago that after.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Bob Costa show, he took a week off and I
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: guest hosted it for a week. Yeah.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And at that time, you were already training with Maurice Smith.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, Maurice was one of the guests, right.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Because I ended up training with Marie Smith. You know
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: every time I go to Seattle and know we we
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: trained together. So you know, we're like part of this
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: like kind of karate martial art nerd culture when it
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: wasn't even popular.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: No.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I used to see you all the time, you know,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: you and you and you know doing jiu jitsu, Carl
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Parisian and all these guys a legends. Where was another
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: place it was we had there was legends and it
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: was another bomb squad.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, the bomb squad was the first place that Eddie
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: taught out and then that place closed down. Then we
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: went to Legends, and then we moved to the other
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Legends that was like in more East l A. And
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: then then Eddie started opening up his own place in downtown.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and that's where I would train with Josh
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Barnett at that place.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah quite a bit.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah man, old days, yes man. Yeah. And who's
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: who would be coming through the because I would I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was training I was training Bob Sap at one time.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: And then I that's how I got Frankie Lyles connected
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: into that.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Wow. And so I remember Frankie. Frankie used to be
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: at the Bomb Squad first, right.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Frankie, he was like my best friend in the world,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and he was you know, you're a super middleweight champion
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: in the world. That's that's who got me deeply into boxing.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And so I would always be at his training camps,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and you know, I got to train with like, uh,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Tommy Hearns and all these amazing people like Sugar Ray
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and all these guys.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Man, Frankie's a great boxing Yeah. He one of the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: most technicals. He's one of the most technical guys I've
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: ever worked with like he analyzes every aspect of your jab.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: He's pulling in your elbow, tightening this, he's moving you here.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: He's like like he's showing all the various basic, little
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: tiny details, all the difference in the world.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, that he was my my personal boxing coach.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I would train with him Joe Goosen early on.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: But but Frankie, I mean we really kind of combined
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of things because I start kind of teaching
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: him things with the jab, like the untelegraphed type of stuff,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: and he started applying that, and he would he would
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: bring me into stuff and you know, have me show
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: people like Sugar Ray, like Mike explain this jet and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what I'm explaining this to Sugar Ray. This
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: feels ridiculous, right, But but it was like, but it
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: was like this combination because like, I don't know, I'm
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: very analytical and I love technique, you know, and and
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: so I would just try to break things down. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: my whole thing was always to pressure test things, you know.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So if I could develop a tool a skill and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: I and you can't stop it even if I tell
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you what's what's what I'm doing, then it's a really
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: good technique. Then then it's legit.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: The thing about no telegraph at all, it's so much
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: more effective than a harder strike with a telegraph, Oh god, yeah,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: because it lands. But it's so differ dificult to teach
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: people that because everybody wants to hit everybody as hard
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: as they can. Yeah, especially if you have power. Your
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: instinct is to fucking to load up on everything. I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: remember I first saw you teaching that the Kimbo slice.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you're on a movie set. Yeah yeah,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: because Kimbo. Oh man, what a great guy.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: What a great guy, What a wonderful guy. So that's
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: one thing about fighting. You can't hide your nature, you
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. You people see who you are.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And he was.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: He was a wonderful human being. But like, but like
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, like almost like street basketball as
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: opposed to you know, uh, professional you you miss out
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: on certain techniques that you need when you're you're trying
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to step up right, And so like, well, Kimbo, you know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: he would, like a lot of people, he would kind
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: of telegraph. And so when we were shooting the movie, uh,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you know, and I basically we had a cameraman that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: did not really know how to shoot stuff, so I
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: just had to do everything on screen, and so I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: would I would. I just wanted to make everything very realistic.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And so so Kimbo had this rubber knife and I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: was like, try your best to touch me with a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: rubber knife, and so he would try, but before but
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: as soon as he would move, there'd be a little
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: bit of an indication that I'd see and then I
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: throw the punch and it would go really close to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: him and I have him react to that, but he
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: was going, wait, wait a minute, how are you? How
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: are you hitting me before I can get this knife out?
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And then I told him, you know, i'll show you
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: what that is later, because you know, kind of like
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: not to be real nervous about it, but like, why
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: why are like fifty and sixty year old trainers meeting
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: people's hands like a twenty year old guy's or contender's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: hands like this. You see the person with the pad
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: moving just as much as the other guy, because there's
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: an indication there. They do this beforehand. They're always kind
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: of flexing and going in reverse before they go forward.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: So just for over years, I wouldn't do that, and
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I would exploit that you know, So it's kind of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: like a cheat code that I'm like, hell, what the hell,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: what the hell I'm going to do with it. I'm
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: an actor, so my thing is just like yourself when
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I see you, you know, with George Saint Pierre and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: how we're always in the gym, we're you know, we're
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: kind of collaborating with you. We're it's about just getting better,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: not no ego or anything else like that. It's just like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: hey man, we're like kind of you know, kind of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: like jamming on technique and getting better.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: That's the high end of someone who has a different style, Yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: because there's always something in different styles that you could
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: take out of it. Absolutely, there's always something, and we're
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: seeing that now there's all these different martial artists that
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: are entering into MMA that I have these different technique
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: that people haven't seen before, and there's a lot of
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: them that people dismiss that you're finding are very effective,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: especially if you don't know how to do them. You
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: don't know what they are, so you don't you have
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like a database in your mind of movements, like I'm
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: sure you see when a guy's loading up on a spin.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everybody sees that. But if you don't know that,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you don't see it right.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And if you if you're loading up, then you're not
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: gonna you're not going to capitalize on it right because
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you don't you know you're taking a there's a millisecond
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that you're taking because your movement is not efficient.
• 18:34
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• 19:15
  Speaker 2: There's a move that still to this day people aren't
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: doing effectively when someone loads up because you can see
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the load up and it's just a jam. It's just
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: lifting your foot up and put it on the hips.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And it's super effective in taekwondo because everybody's fast. You know,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: everybody's trying to do that technique. But that jam of
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: just lifting your foot up and just not trying to
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: hit them hard, just putting that foot on the hip.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It fucks people up. And I don't see anybody using
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: that right now.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I tell you, man, I don't like as in life,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: there is always something that you can gain from the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: people want to. I don't know. People are in their
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: own egos a lot of times. But like even wooshu
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: me is as hard as hell for me doing wooshoe
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: against guys half my size. It's not against but it's
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: a performance thing. But if I can do all of it,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: can go to these these very hard techniques of like
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta get down to the floor and I gotta
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and body master at my size, Well then I'm better.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So if I want to kick you in the eyebrow,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I can because I'm It's about, you know, having my
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: body do what my mind is telling it to and
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: so but of course people want to dismiss it because, oh,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: that ain't real. You can't use it. Yeah good, Yeah,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: just like ballet as hard as hell. You can't use
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: that either. But anybody, any heavyweight who put themselves through
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: ballet would be a better fighter.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Look, yeah, his dad taught him Ukrainian dance. Lomachenko's dad
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: pulled him out of boxing for two years when he
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: was young and said, you're just gonna do Ukrainian dance. Yeah,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: it's like, what the fuck am I doing? But look
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: at that guy's footward.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, And so it's just that as in life, man,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I don't look at anything from one group and just
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: discard any other stuff I.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Used to when I was young.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: When I was young, I was pretty arrogant about certain things.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I thought forms were stupid. All I wanted to do
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: was spar and hit the bag.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Then as I got older, I realized, oh, there's a
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: lot of wisdom and all this.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, But yeah, but that's like I say, I try
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to apply that to life period. You know, I never
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: look at anything from one perspective. I mean, I grew
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: up in the hood and I'm you know, my favorite
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: band is freaking you know the Eagles, and yeah, I
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: mean like, you know, and I'm listening to Jody Mitchell
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and all, and people like, what are you doing listening? Mike?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: What the fuck?
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: You know? This?
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: This is my life? Man? Fuck you like you hear
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: these lyrics? You hear Jody Mitchell's lyrics. Man, what the
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: fuck that's all for me too. I mean, I'm just
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: as passionate about, you know, Errol Smith as I am
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: about the Eisley Brothers. But it was never looked at
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: life as I have to think in this parameter, you know,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I've gotta be marginalized. That's that's just man. Come on,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it's such a waste of life. It is. It's all
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: for you, man. So I agree with them with the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: martial arts and everything else. I look at every martial
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: arts just like everything else. Everything has something to contribute,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: just like all people have something to contribute. Even an idiot.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: You can learn from an idiot.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: You can a lot of idiots say wise things occasionally.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because everybody's going to have a quotient of legitimacy,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe twenty percent as and they don't
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: see the eighty percent. But until you acknowledge that twenty percent,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: they're not going to hear you, you know what I mean.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So that's the thing. It's like, man, we're on this planet,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: and one of the things I man, I don't envy
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of people, but I do, Doe. I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: do envy you because you get to expand your world.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: You talk to so many interesting people, and that's what
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a great thing, what a great thing to just have
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: all these type of perspectives and all that coming through.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: And I got to say, man, I'm super proud of
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you because I know you as Joe from the gym,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and look what you've done. Man, you man, it's like that,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a shot in the army because it's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: like people that you like and seeing them prosper that's
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: cool as ship.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I've learned a lot, man, and I didn't
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: expect to. You know, when we first started doing this,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: it was just for fun. We just get together with
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: our friends.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You know, knew what you wanted to do. Man, you
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: were pretty damn clear. Because do you remember this. You
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: remember me coming to I think it was the ice
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: House in Pasadena? Yeah, no, no, no, shoot it wasn't
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: ice house. It was it was in it was in
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Orange County. I came. I came to see you perform,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and I offered you the role in blod and Bone.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that at all? I do? Yeah?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Now I do?
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Now? Yeah, yeah, because Blood and Bone, which is like
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: actually Sony's most successful non theatrical that was basically a
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: kind of a reimagining of Hard Times with Charles Bronson
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and James Colburn. And yes, well that role was basically
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: that I was offering you was the James Colburn role, right,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: but you were so you was dead and you said,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do this acting stuff. I want
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: to do. I want to focus on what I you know,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: your your interest, which was you know, you stand up
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: and you you're getting together your I mean, I know
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you and Eddie were doing like kind of the early
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: podcast type of stuff and whatever, and I'm like, man,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know you really kind of knew what you wanted
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Well. The thing about acting is, I mean, I admire it,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: especially good acting, but it takes a lot of time
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: out of your day. It's a sixteen hour day. It's
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: a long day, and it will take away from other
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: things things you do. Yeah, and I saw that with
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of comics that they started doing acting and
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: it would take away from their act because they really
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: couldn't go and do sets every night. They couldn't really
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: polish their material. You can see the stuff getting a
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: little clunky. It's just you gotta you gotta focus. You
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: gotta find the things you enjoy and focus on them.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why. That's why I say, I'm so proud
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: of seeing just being there and seeing what you did,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: you being a part of the UFC when it was
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: nothing promised, you know what I mean.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: And not only was it not promise, people looked at
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you like you were doing like snuff films or something exactly.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: They looked at it like I remember the early days,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: man Dana White always says this. People would talk to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: you like you were doing porn or something right right,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Like I was on news radio, the sitcom on NBC
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: and I was doing commentary where I was doing post
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: fight interviews for the UFC, and they were like, why
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: are you doing this? Why are you flying to Alabama
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: and doing cage fights?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: See, this is what movies are good. Movies are made
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: of shit like this, you know, and somebody just on
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: just out of their spirit, doing what they want to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: do with no promise of anything and then accomplishing something.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: So you knows, man.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Well, for me and I'm sure for you as well.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: When we were young, there was always a question, what
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: is the best style. Is it kil Kashin, is it Judo?
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Is it kung fu? What is it? What's the best style?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: And no one really knew. I mean, Benny the Jet
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: fought in a bunch of those no rules fights early
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: early on, but they never really took off. There wasn't
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: there wasn't a lot of those, you know, and Benny
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: was obviously a very special fighter.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he was one of my teachers too.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I trained a his gym. He was
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: on the podcast with Blinki Blinky Roger recently and I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: told them, I said, when I came to La there
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: was two places had to go. I had to go
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: to the commerce store, how to.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Go to the Jet Center? To go to the Jets Center.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And I was there in ninety four right before it
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: went under because the earthquake damage the roof exactly. So
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: when the ca yeah on Friar Street yep, and right
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: now from the Gooens yep. Yeah, right down yeah, and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: that that was an honor man, to be able to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: train in that gym. That was incredible. It was incredible.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I used to be there. Yeah yeah, man, yeah,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: those are great times because I mean I connect with
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Bennie because when I was in Bridgeport, my instructor, Manny
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Malisi went to California and started training with Benny Wow
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: early on, so he put that on the map about
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: coming to the medics. Training with Benny it.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Was the mecca. Yeah, for kickboxing in the especially in
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: the nineties, that was the mecca. You had to go
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: to the Jets Center.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Man, that was so we were always wondering, like what
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: is the style, what's the best style? And then the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: UFC came along. I'm like, oh my god, they did it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: They did it, they figured it out, they put it
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: all together, and for a while it was jiu jitsu
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: because nobody understood jiu jitsu and Hoyst Cracy was just
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: running shed.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Well you know, you know how that was kind of
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: set up a little bit. It was a little set up.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, look, he had some challenges,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: like Ken Shamrock was a beast. Oh you know, he
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: had some really good fighters. Who was facing against Kimbo Slice.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, excuse me, not Kimbo Slice, not Chemo Chemoy.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Chemo was fucking huge.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: She was a big dude. But you know, he didn't
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: really well.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It was a one hundred pounded vantage. Yeah, hit one
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: hundred pounds over Hoyst.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: The Gracies were smart. They were very smart at that
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: time and knowing you know, the right people that kind
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: of pick at that time because you know, there was
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: some there was some killers out there.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: There were some killers out there. Yeah, they definitely set
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it up, especially the early ones. But it's also it's like,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: you know, that was it was good for us to
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: see a guy like Hoys who wasn't jacked. He was
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: a slender guy who went weighed one hundred and seventy
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: five pounds and he was strangling everybody, arm bar and everybody.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: It was wild to see when he picked Dan Severn.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Dan Severn was two hundred and sixty pounds and Hoys
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: tapped him off his back with a triangle.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, man, what a story that put that
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: put on the map on the map big time. But
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: you know one thing that always broke my heart is
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: people never knew about Hickson. Right, Oh my god, I
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: know that dude. Yeah, that cat was like I always
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: considered him, like, pound for pound, the best because he
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: he no, he had this not only you know, jiu
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: jitsu skills, but just his concentration and he was almost
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: like you know, hypnotic, right, you know what I mean,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and just no waste of energy, none, just unbelievable. What
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: an amazing person to watch it. You know, I would
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: encourage anybody to pull up his his fight stuff. Oh yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Another great example of cross training too, because Hickson got
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: really into yoga and everybody's like, what the fuck are
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: you doing?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Yoga?
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Yoga's for girls, right, Hickson got really into yoga and
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: got super flexible and suit and really good at controlling
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: his breathing. Oh yeah yeah, and never got tired.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You saw him in in The Hulk. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: it's something man that talk about a legend.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Oh real legend? Yeah yeah, man, Well Hickson, there's a
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: video of him, and he did this multiple times where
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: he would go to these gyms and he would teach
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: a seminar, like a long seminar, and then roll with
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: all the black belts and just tap them one after
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the other. World champions, Guys that just didn't understand what
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: was going on, like how is this happening? Like Paul
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Ophelio when he was a w EC World champion and
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: he was he had won the Moon, the Als. I
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: believe he'd won multiple jiu jitsu championships and he trained
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: with Hickson and he's like, man, it's true. I can't
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: believe it. He goes that guy treated me like I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: didn't even belong in there. It was crazy. And Hickson
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: by that time was probably like forty yeah, you know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: and it's still just dominating guys on the map and effortless.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: It wasn't strength, it was it was just pure technique.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And mas and just mastering of basics.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, basics. It was like, there's none of the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: no barrembolos, no X guard, nothing crazy is that. Everything
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: he did is like jiu jitsu one oh one but
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: two a masterful masterful.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Degree, yeah, and incredible and telling people that, you know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: because everybody know hooys and I'm like, do you you
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: guys don't know who his big brother is.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: He would openly say that my brother's ten times better
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: than right.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, So you know that's that really put
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And I love jiu jitsu because it's it's held up
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the tradition that martial arts soone. So karate lost because
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: it became a business and people would just you know,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: put their time in and pay for their black belts,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: and it just watered it down all these people running
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: around saying that they're master this and you know, grand
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: whatever and all these made up things. It's like, oh yeah,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the guy's a master in a in an Asian martial arts.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: That's that's a that's an English word, right, you know
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: what I mean? How did master sneak its way into it? Right? Anyway?
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: But you know male ego, Well, the thing about martial
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: arts other than jiu jitsu is when you're sparring, it's
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: very controlled. Like a lot of karate sparring is very controlled.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: A lot of time one those sparring is very controlled.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But in jiu jitsu, the beautiful thing about grappling is
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: you know how good everybody is because they all spar
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: they're all rolling with each other, and they're essentially going
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: full blast until the tap, and so you there's no hiding,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: no hiding your skill.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love what Eddie Bravo used to say, basically,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: when you won, I killed you. Yeah, yeah, I just
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: killed you. Yeah you know, so that's like, wow, that's it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: That's a trip because it's like it actually works out
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that way.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he gets you in a triangle and you tap.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's because you were about to go to sleep, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: once you're sleep, you could just stomp your head and
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: know a pancake. Yeah, yeah, you're you're done, and then
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you never wake up.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What a humbling thing. Yeah, yeah, very humbling. Yeah.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: And what's really humbling is how quickly someone could do
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: it to you when you don't know what you're doing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Like that was shocking to me because I had all
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: this martial arts experience and I first started training, I
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: was like, what's someone gonna do to me? I wrestled
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: in high school. I'm strong, I'm fast, I don't fight. Yeah,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I just got man handled over and over again. Oh yes,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: it's ridiculous.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, see that, But kudos because a lot of people
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: they because if you got an egotistical thing going and
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: you you know, get that you're your little uh, I
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: don't know, you're you're comforting because you got your black
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: belt and all that kind of stuff. That means jack nothing,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you know to everybody I know who continues and really
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: to learn, you know, real fighting, Yeah knows when you
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: had a boxer beat the hell out you and you go,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: oh wait, there's a lot of this stuff I got
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: to toss out the window. Yeah, because I mean I
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: never forget like times where you know, like wrestler gets
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: to me or boxer like pieces me up, like early on,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I got to learn this.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. I went through several of those. I
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: went through one of them in high school because I
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: had a friend in high school there was a wrestler
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: and I didn't think anything of wrestling. I'm like, that's
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: not even a martial art. And then we wrestled on
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: the grass one day and he just took me down
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: at will, and I was like, this is ridiculous, Like
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: he was pinning me down. I could I couldn't move,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I couldn't get up. I'm like, this is stunning. I
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: thought I'm strong. I thought I could move. I thought
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I'll be able to get out of the way now
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: that they hadn't no chance. And he wasn't even a
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: great wrestler. He's just a decent wrestler. He just humbled
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: me over and over and over again. So then I
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: started wrestling. They might have got into takwon do. I thought,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I'm really good at takuan do. I was competing on
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: a national level. I won the state championships four years
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: in a row. I was fucking people up. And then
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time I boxed with a really
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: good amateur boxer. I was like, oh Lord, and this
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: kid was like eighteen years old. I was at the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: and he went on. His kid his name is Dana Rosenblat.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: He went on to become a New England middleway champion.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: He beat Vinnie Pazienza. He beat Howard Davis Junior. As
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: a professional. He was a really good boxer.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: He had to be.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: But he was kickboxing at the time, and I was
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: gonna get into kickboxing, and so I was sparring with him.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: But when I was boxing with him, I was just
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: getting lit up. I was like oh. And then also
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: when we're kickboxing, the moment he got close to me,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I was in trouble. I was like, oh no, Like
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: taekwondo had too many flaws, the hand techniques. So I
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: had gone through that, and so then I thought, okay,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: well now I understand kickboxing. Then I met a dude
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: who went to Thailand a bunch of times and was
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: training Muay Thaian fighting over there, and then I started
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: learning leg kicks. I'm like, well, oh, good Lord, Now
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: all they have to do is kick my legs. I
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: didn't even think of that. And then I started really
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: paying attention to w KA fights like the old Denis
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Alexio days. Do the Dragon Wilson leg kicks. Leg kicks
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: are everything? Oh my goodness. And then I'm like, Okay,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: well now I got a solid foundation. I understand how
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: to fight. And then I started getting back to square one.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I'm getting raped.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I was just getting mauled on the mats. This is
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: but I'd been through that so many times and restarted
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: so many times. I was like, well, it's time to
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: learn this now.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's That's what I'm saying. Is everything has something
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: to teach you.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: And you know, even even though there's that there's a
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: martial arts, there's a fantasy world which is I look
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: at it, it's hilarious. You know, there's this you know, uh,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I know there's sometimes I would I would say it
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: like this, like with martial arts is the Dunny Krueger. Yes,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: in the largest way possible, because everybody out there has
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: an opinion of martial arts, though very few people really
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: know what it is. You know, they want to look
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: at you know, the movies and everything, and they really
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: want to believe that. They want to believe that this
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: guy who you know, kicks in the air and all
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff will be able to beat a champion.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And in a way, hey, I benefit from that to
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: some degree because they you know, they they think that
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: about me. But you know, I mean even though I'm
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: comfortable fighting and I love to, I mean, I just
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: love you fighting against anybody, But but you've.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Had actual competition experience, like a lot of competitions.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but my best experience is was is with like
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I got. I got a chance to train against champions
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: at their place, you know, when they're at their best.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And it's not an ego thing. It's just like I
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: love to be able to test myself. And I mean
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: because I'm my biggest competition. And so that whole thing
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: about just what the bowel means to me is like
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: thank you for making me better by providing me an obstacle.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: And and the higher the you know, the better the person,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the better I can become. And so I loved it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So I you know, for years I'm in there with
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Go Kansaki and you know, Maurice Smith's and you know
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: who you know, you name it, I is I've gotten.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I consider myself one of the luckiest like martial artists
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: on the planet because I get to train with so
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: many people sometimes you know, at my house and you know,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I've got away you know, former champions, you know, training
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and you know rampage. When he was champion, I go
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to his place and you know, and and honestly, like
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the things I brag about is when I get humbled,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: you know, because that's when I learned something. My my
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: philosophy is I love to be wrong because every time
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, I learned something absolutely. And so like some
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: of the best times for me is like I know
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: when I was you know, Michael Bisman was getting ready
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: for UH to fight George Saint Pierre and we were
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: in Thailand. I was like, yeah, you know, let's let's like,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: let's mix it up. Let's we were doing a movie
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: out there. Oh, but he had the train he was
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: getting ready UH for the George Saint Pierre fight, and
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: so you know, I was like, yeah, let's let's do
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: some rounds or whatever. And I got so winded the
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: second round. I'm like, dude, just wo my ass. I
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: feel so like like I'm embarrassed.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I was a cardio machine. Yes, he was he was
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: a cardio.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect that because we were We spent all
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: day on a yacht the day before and he was
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: drinking NonStop. I'm a non drinker, right, I'm like, this
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: guy's gonna you know, I'm gonna probably take it easy
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: on him. Today.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Is all of the toughest motherfuckers that ever fought in
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: the sport. I swear this is what I say about him.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: No matter what you think about watching his fight, you
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: have to understand, not only did he accomplish so much,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: he accomplished a lot of it with one eye, one
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: fucking eye. He had eleven fights in the UFC with
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: a winning record with one eye.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah crazy, Yes, Yeah, that's man.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: He would memorize the eye chart so that when they
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: covered his eye, he could sit it out like he
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: could read it. Oh yeah, yeah, How fucking crazy is that.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: He's got a hell of a He's got a hell
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: of a personal story too. I was trying to encourage
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: him to get that. Get that made you know, like
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I honestly, man, I really I really look at these
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: UFC fighters and you know, the MMA guys as our
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: modern day heroes. There are gladiators and so whenever I
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: have a chance, man, I always like to put them
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: in movies and try to expose them to another kind
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: of way of you know, getting paid, especially afterwards, because
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: something it breaks my heart that their heroes and then
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: they get discarded sometimes but not by the the union
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: that they're with, but just by the fans. It was
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: so fickle sometimes.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, the casuals, the people that aren't really martial arts. Right, Yeah,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: so you miss a god when they lose a few.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just didn't my third movie with Cowboy Seroti.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: You know, we just finished a little over a week ago. Yeah,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: he's doing really good man.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, that's a guy that could really
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: legitimately transition to become a movie star.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and he's got a lot more confidence. This is,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: like I said, the third movie I did, I did it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: He did a Western with me, uh out law Johnny Black.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I wrote and directed it, but I had I had Cowboy,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: I had Randy coltur in it. Wow. And then Josh Barnett.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Randy's done an amazing job of transitioning. Oh, absolutely expendables,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: you know, and he's great at it.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: He Oh a great personality, just very very calm like
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: he Well, I remember one time he was fighting Tim
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Sylvia for the heavyweight title and he came out there
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and he had a smile on his face. He looked
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: over at me and he winked. I'm like, how was
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: this motherfucker so relaxed before his fight? But he had
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: an amazing perspective, he said. He said to me, the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: people who love you will love you whether you win
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: or lose. And he said, what's the worst thing that
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: can happen? You lose? He goes, you've lost before, it's
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: no big deal.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: I remember him spanking.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he got top of his and it was an animal.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, when you know he had that heart attack
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: while he was shooting my movie.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And this came back to set like nothing.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: How did he have a heart attack?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember how exactly it was. And
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I think he drove himself to the hospital. Yeah. Man,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: it's talk about an American hero, man.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I mean I was there for his first fight, really, yeah,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. Yeah, I was there for his very
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: first fight. Oh he thought this huge jack dude took
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: him down, mounted them, beat the shit out of them.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: It was wild. It was like, that was the time
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: where wrestlers had first started cracking this code. Right, there
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: was this code of there was a lot of people
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: that thought like jiu jitsu was the only way. And
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: then the elite wrestlers got in there, the Mark Kerrz,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: the Mark Colemans's and then Randy a bunch of these
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: guys got in there, and then they realized, like, if
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: a guy could just take you down and beat the
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: fuck out of you from the top, there's not a
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: whole lot you could do about it, right, And then
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: we realized, like, boy, that is the corner that's the
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: true cornerstone of martial arts, the ability to take a
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: guy down.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: My goodness, I mean, what's harder than wrestling. I don't
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: think there's the.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Hardest sport in the world. Yeah, the hardest sport in
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: the world and the best sport in the world to
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: get your kids into at a young age because the
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: discipline and the mental toughness that they get will carry
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: them through for the rest of their life.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Tenacity, that's just the stick to itiveness, whatever you
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: want to call it. Yeah, that's just like.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Even high school wrestling. I remember wrestling in high school
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: and I had already done martial arts, but I was like,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I'd never trained that hard. I was like, I can't believe.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: And then it carried me over into my taekwin No
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: career because I realized, like, oh, I'm leaving a lot
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: on the table, like I'm not training like these guys are, right.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: So I started running. I started adding all these things
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: to my training that I wasn't doing before. I started
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: doing a lot more calaisthentics, a lot more different things
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: like I'm leaving something on the table because we were
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: not training in the gym and we were sparring hard.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: We were doing hard rounds of you'd get tired, but
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: it was not the same as what we were doing
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: in wrestling. No one trains hard.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: That anaerobic stuff. Man, that's that's man I got. I
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: got the wrestling bug when I'm and when I was
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: in I was a senior in high school and the
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: football coach was a wrestler in college and he challenged me.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I think we did this two years in a row,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and my junior year and my senior year. At the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: end of the year, we we'd wrestle. We just go like,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: you know, he and I I was like, I said
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I was big for my age play football. I was
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: for a very short time, but I ended up I
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was I wasn't, I wasn't designed for sports, and I
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: ended up beating up the football coach. Yeah, I had
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: a dude like I had. I had the worst temper
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: than anybody I'd ever seen. I mean, I used to
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: go in the fits of rage. I was so angry
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: early on. Man, it's like the Hulk is like, Mike,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: you should chill out a little bit, man, Like I
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: was just.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Probably from being on your own at fourteen.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what it is, is like I was
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: growing up in a very harsh environment and I was
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't know I was an artist. I didn't know
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: I was a writer, director, whatever. You know. They didn't
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: you didn't see those growing up where I am. And
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: so when you're sensitive, kid, man, what you do is
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you you build armor. Like I was to play Mike
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Tyson later on, and I understood him quite well. Uh.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And if you're sensitive, you you know, anything that's precious,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: you put it in, you lock it in a safe,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and you become the safe. And it's it's like I
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: grew up. My brothers were completely different. They're engineers, so
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: things rolled off their back. But like for me, just
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I was just volatile and luckily I had martial arts
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: to kind of folk put my focus into. But like
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: I said, like like I was to play Mike Tyson,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I understood him a great deal. And you know, even
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: though you take the moniker of this monster, it's only
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: to hide what's really deep inside. And that's why you
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: would see if anybody's gonna go into tears in front
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: of a million people, it's people like Mike Tyson, and
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: you go, how does that fit in the same person?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: And so that's what I was growing up. And you know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but I I
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: was a school teacher before I was an actor. Oh really, yeah.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: I taught EMD. I was a special ed teacher, so
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: I focused on a lot of kids who were very
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: much like me. And I still do that in a way.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I consider that my real job. Whenever I'm off from
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: work on a movie or whatever, I go into the
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: inner cities, I go into community centers. I devote my
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: time because there's nothing that I could do. There's no
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: better spending of time than something like that. Because I
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: was luckily, luckily saved. I had just at the right
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: times in my life, just different seeds planning, and so
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I'm confident that if those seeds were not planning, I
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: would not be here because, like I said, I was
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: been through some crazy stuff.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: The classic story.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bro, man, Like I'll tell you, like, just a
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: little under two years ago, a buddy of mine who
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: was a close friend of mine, he he got out
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: of prison. He was in prison for almost like thirty years,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: and he found me on Facebook. And so when I
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: went back East, we linked up, and I and you know,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of people who hasn't had businesses
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: and everything. I hooked him up, you know, got him
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: a job. And we were sitting over lunch and in
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: the middle of him telling me like the third or
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: fourth story, like back in the glory days of us
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: or whatever. While he was in the middle of this story,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I was, I was, you know, kind of getting myself
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: set to kind of set him straight, because I don't
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: know if you want to call the superstitious, but I
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: won't lie. I refuse to lie to my friends. I
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: even I won't lie by omission. So I was getting
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: set to tell him, dude, man, you gotta stop embellishing
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: these stories just because you were locked up and you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: made these story already sound bigger than life. I get it,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: but you're that's not real. You gotta you gotta really,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of not do that. And in the
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: middle of me thinking that and I'm listening to him,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I go, holy shit, he's telling the truth. I started
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: remembering what he was telling me M and I'm like,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: now I'm finishing his sentences. Not only was that story true,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: but the other ones were true too. And dude, like
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I swear, every time I think about this, I got
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: these goosebumps, and I realized, oh my god, how close
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I was to being where he was, or just not
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: being on this planet, Like, I better devote my time
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: into helping kids the way I was helped. Yeah, don't
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: pull that louder up. No, hell no, hell no. Even
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: if I'm taken out, I accept that. Even if I'm
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: in some projects where I'm not supposed to be and
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been, I accept that because dude, I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: am abundantly lucky. Likes it doesn't even it doesn't even
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: fit on the radar, how lucky I am. And I
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: could remember a lot of these crazy stories, you know,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: aside from the ones that he made me conjure back up.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: But man, I'm like, wow.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Well that speaks to your character that you had downplayed
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: it all in your mind so much that you thought
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: he was exaggerating.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: I swept it under the rug.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you're not that person anymore.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: No, no, but I mean, but there was so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: There were so many events things that would I just
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: call it on a Wednesday that I went through that
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, like I think and trade
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: it because I continue to be the happiest guy I
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: know because of I think some of.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: That because you can appreciate the good time.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. And I should be slapped if
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: I complain about anything, right, you know what I mean,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: like what and so you know, so I just boy,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I just know, I'm so blessed and and you know
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: what we do, what we're doing even right now. Man,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: we're in the service industry. Man, you know, you're here
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: to serve. In my opinion, that's what we're all here for.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And you know it's great that we get to serve
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and doing the things that we would like to do
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: just inspired us.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: That's definitely a lot of what we do. I mean,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: there's definitely a lot of it. Right, you're entertained. But
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I feel very blessed that I've been able to expose
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: people to so many different ways of thinking, so much information,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: so many different human beings that have led completely different
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: paths that can tell you about whatever discipline they're involved in,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: what they've learned, and what we're working on right now,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and what you can learn about the human mind, the body,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: ancient history, fill in the blank, like whatever it is.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I see you do that
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: over and over and utmost honestly, I remember like when
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: you had to kind of pull shop aside until as
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: a friend some things that are hard for people to
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: you know, other friends to tell him, you know, and
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: like that was real hard.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was real hard because I love that guy.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: He's a great he's a great person, he's a great
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: human being. And I knew the path. I've seen it
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: too many times, but I hadn't seen it with someone
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I was that close with. I was like, you have
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: to stop because you not only that, you're in the
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: heavyweight division, so the knockouts are brutal, and you're going
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: to get three or four more in the next couple
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: of years, and then you're not going to recover from those.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: A man, so many people, I hope they take a
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: page out of that, because it's so non manly. I
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: feel to just not say anything right and allow somebody
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: you love to go down the road. I mean that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: that might be detrimental.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: For them, but it was also Shop had another path.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: He was really good at podcasting.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: He's fun.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: He's a funny dude. Yeah, he's like as a podcast,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: he's like, you got a great personality. He's silly, you know,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: He's a big giant, silly dude.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Like, we would have so much fun. And he was
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: doing really well and he was making more money doing
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: that than he was fighting. But his identity was so
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: wrapped up in him being a top ten UFC heavyweight.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: He had beat world class guys like Mercle Crow Cop,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: you know, and he was legit man. But that time
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: had passed and I saw that he was one foot
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: in and one foot out. And as soon as the
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: guy's one fit in one foot out, you're gonna run
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: into some guy who has both feet in and is
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: a fucking samurai, and then you're gonna wake up on
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: a stretcher, you're on the way to the hospital, going
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: what happened, and you don't remember the fight. You don't
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: remember nothing. Yeah, and then you don't know where your
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: keys are, you forget people's names, you tell the same
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: story over and over again, and then you struggle to
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: put sentences together when you start seeing dudes with the
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: slur that nothing's worth that because you're I mean, at
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: the time, he's only thirty five years old or whatever
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: he was. I'm like, man, you got another forty five
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: fifty five years of life. You can't do this. You can't.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: You can't sacrifice all these years for glory that will
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: never be achieved anyway, because you're not on that path anymore. Yeah.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: And it's not about what strangers say about you, No,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: it's about your you know, your friends, your family, people
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: really love you.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: It's just so hard for people to abandon that identity.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: That's the hardest thing with fighters is to abandon that identity.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: We've seen so many guys, even the greats, they come
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: back and they shouldn't and you see it, and you
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: see them get humiliated and you're like.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, And when it comes down to it,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: these people. They don't love you man, like a lot
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: of you know.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: It's they love you as the image.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they lived vicariously through you. I remember. I remember
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: one time I was in a fight in Boston, and
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: I remember when something completely changed. Usually if anybody would
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: because I did any kind of thing, I would do
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: kickboxing or this tournament. I just loved my best I
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: think the thing I did best in the world was fighting.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: I had this. I always had these cheat codes in
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: a way, and I enjoyed the chess match of it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: And anybody who was against me, I don't care if
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: you were my cousin or whatever. You're gonna pay for
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: all the angst that I've had in my life. But
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: until there was this one time, I swear I ducked
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: a technique. I caught somebody with something that was kind of,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of cool, and I just remember the
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: audience just cheering, and in that moment, I was like
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: just angry, kind of like, yo, this guy could really
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: be messed up right now. You're cheering for me. You're
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: living vicarious through me, like I'm a pit bull or something.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: And I got angry at the audience. I fucking hated them,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: and I said, because if I was down on the ground,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: you'd be cheering for the person that put me down.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: And something just snapped, and I go, no, this is
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: not enough for me, This is not this is not
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: what I want to do. And you know, just something snapped.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: And I'm much rather be skillful, test myself in a
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: skillful way, and I'm much rather not try to peel
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: your head off, but show I could as opposed to
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: you know, that triumph of dominating. It was nothing for
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: me anymore in that, you know, and just something it's
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: just something just rubbed me the wrong way. And I
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: just anytime I would do any kind of competition, it
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: was for me and it wasn't for an audience, you know.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: It's just something soured. I always thought at one time,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be called out, you know, and I thought, oh,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I rise to that occasion if that that happens, and
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of like remember with you and Wesley,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: which would have been no, my god, that would have
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: been terrible. But yeah, but but I always thought, hey, well,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe you know something.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: I think Wesley just needed money.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I mean that I don't think I don't think that
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: was ever serious. But it's very much like I.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Think we were in negotiation for quite a while. Man,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: we had lawyers involved.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always easy to pull the plug on something
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: like that. Just like johnkle it's talking about fighting Jake Paul, right.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Is he talking about the un years old? Yeah? Fifty pounds.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Come on, man, come on, I just saw in the
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: last couple of days. I'm like, I.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: Think Wesley was serious because I think they had they
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: had hit him with that tax case and he owed a.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Lot of money before that tax case.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was in the middle of it, really, yeah,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent. I know it was. Yeah, yeah, it
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: was two thousand and I want to say five or six.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: It was in the middle of all that, and he
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: was in trouble. It was it was serious, and he,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously eventually wound up going to jail. Yeah. Yeah,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: So they were going to set up a fight with
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: him and Jean Claude van Dam that was the first fight.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: But Campbell mcl yeah, Campbll McLaren from the UFC was like,
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: no one gives a shit about you fighting Jean Claude
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: van Dam. You got to fight someone who's current, And
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: so he said, let me contact Joe Rogan. He called
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: me up and he said, would you be willing to
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: fight Wesley Snipes? And I was like what? And I
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: was like, come on, really, what is this? And so
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I said, let me think about it. I thought about it.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: I called him the next day. I said, let's fucking
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Really. Yeah.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: I was trained with Rob Cayman in the mornings and
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: then I was doing jiu jitsu at night. I trained
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: twice a day for six months.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I was always tired. I was always tired. That was
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: one thing that I realized, like fuck man to be like.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't even a professional really, but it was
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: training like a professional. It's like, I can't believe how
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: tired I am all the time. But you know, I
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: think Wesley had never really had a fight. I don't
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: think so. I think he was he was accomplished martial artists.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: He had good technique.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: I trained with Wesley's instructors, and you know Marcus L.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Got who was a good friend of mine, and and
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: also U Lamar Thornton, who was marcussel Gotto was instructor.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: That's I believe the that's the only that's the the
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: lineage I believe that he's through. But I mean, I've
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: never I've known Wesley since way before. He was kind
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: of Wesley who.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I was a giant fan of Wesley, which is also
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: wild for me because I love Blade. Blade was like
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: my favorite comic book when I was a kid.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I just didn't. I didn't think they were
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: serious about I could. I couldn't imagine why would Wesley.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: I always thought it was not real.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: I think Wesley thought that I was just a grappler
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: and think he knew that I was doing jiu jitsu.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think he knew my background, and so like
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: they were, Wesley was talking to them saying, Oh, he
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: thinks he's going to be able to stop you from
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: taking him down, and he's gonna catch you with a
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: knee while you're coming in to try to take him down.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Like I go, oh, he wants to stand up, Like
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I'm way better at that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering how that even occurred. I
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: didn't think that was serious.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, it was serious, Yeah, it was serious.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: It went on for a long time. It was a
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: lot of negotiation, to the point where I even talked
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: about it on the UFC broadcast. Once I said, come on,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Wesley signed the contract, I'm getting bored training, Let's do this,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: like I have to do it now. I was like
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: thirty five or thirty six. I was like, I don't
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: have much time left, befo, We're going to do this.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: We have to do this now, like, come on, let's go.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: And then he decided not to and then I'm like
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: that's probably for the better.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew whistling for wow. I remember when he
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: was first telling me about the sovereign being sovereign.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where they got him with that sovereign citizen ship.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I wish I was friends with him.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: I was. I was I'm super protective of my friends.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I've always been that way, and with Wesley, I was
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: always like, my thing is that he used to have
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: people around him that I'm like, you know, we have
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: to get togethers at my house whatever. I'm like, don't
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: bring any of those motherfuckers or it's going to be
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: a problem, you know, because there's there's people that just
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I felt like were hangers on and you know, that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I was always like, yeah, man.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Are you good?
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: And you know are you staying healthy. I've always been
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: that way because the way I look at it, he's
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: a big brother. If not for him, and it may not.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Be for me.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: You know, he gave me some good advice early on.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: He always encouraged me that I'm doing if I have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: a movie that's overseas, get there, you know, show up
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: in those overseas markets and let them know that you're
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you're down, you know. And I took that to heart
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: and that helped me out in my career a great deal.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I look at it like that.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I've never I'll never say anything derogatory, bottom or whatever.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm always I mean, I just recently
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: tried to reach out to him, like a couple of
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: days ago, just to check in, man, because I you know,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: I wish him the best and and you know, I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: wanted to want him to, like really, you know, start
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: kicking ass again.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: I would love to see him return as Blade.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be cool.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: He could do it too, Yeah, yeah, an older Blade,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: he could do it.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: Blade. That's the opening scene, that's one of the scenes
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: in any action movie of all time, when there's that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: vampire party and the sprinklers, starts spraying blood and they're
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: about to kill that dude, and all of a sudden,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Wesley shows up.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, It's what really gets on my nerves is that,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: you know, he saved Marvel Man. That movie saved Marvel.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, oh yeah, that movie was a huge Yah.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Even stan Lee admits that they were like in trouble
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: until that movie.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? Superhero movies are the biggest fucking movies
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: in Hollywood right now.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I mean when they have a big budget movie. Superhero
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: movies are like the only movie that you can throw
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of dollars and be sure it's gonna
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: kill it in the box office, whether it's The Avengers
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: or Spider Man or Superman or whoever the fuck it is.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: That's the only kind of movie that Hollywood's like, yeah, okay,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: we'll throw five hundred million at this one. Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: And you know it's I'm not a big fan of
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: those things. I know it's not. They didn't design it
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: for people like me, right, So it's it's for the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: fan base, And to me, it's like, you know, I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: they they tend to meld into each other as far
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: as I'm concerned they do.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: They do. There's only so many times you can tell
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: the stories so soon, you know. But I still enjoy them.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I still enjoy some of them. They're fun.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like when people are believable, believable.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: There's nothing believable about these Yeah, you know.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: I like the actors that were, like, you know, have
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: some quirkiness and some some you know, EDGs to them,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: right So yeah, yeah, you know, maybe I'm being unfair
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: because I really hadn't seen it a lot. Maybe I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: owe it to myself to give someone No.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I think you got it. It's simple entertainment. It's a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: silly release, an escape, that's all it is. It's not
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: a great there's no great films that are superhero films.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Right yeah, Because sometimes I'm like, oh, yeah, she's ninety
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: pounds and she just threw it, okay, yeah, like Charlie's
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: And it's like anytime somebody lands in a three point
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: stance and then looks up, I'm like, I just changed
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: the channel. I'm just like, stop, just stop. But you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: people love those things. I'm like, that's cool.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know why they have so much appeal, especially
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: in the American market. People. That is one of the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: only movies that you could make that's guaranteed to be huge.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's McDonald's, man, it's McDonald's. But I remember
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: when that's it. Yeah, I remember when you know, you
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: had what was that, like the three hundred, you know
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: that was like nobody, nobody knew anybody, But that was
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: just such a breath of fresh air because it looked
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: like some bad asses that were real, you know what
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: I mean. I'd like to see more of that kind
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: of a thing, like, you know, not the stype our
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: power thing, but just some motherfuckers that you believe, you
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? That that would you know, that
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: would attract me.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Also, the style of that movie was so unique because
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: it blended fantasy, reality and history.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know would I got
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: some some things in the works. Yeah, oh man, I've
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: been blessed.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I've got some really good movies coming out and some
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: things that I'm planning on doing. I'm getting to a
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: place where I'm really shooting the things that I want
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: and I've been producing and all that stuff. So you know,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: so you know, I have movies that have their have
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: their body count, but also have a little bit of
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: like something to say.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I missed was that Spawn?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: A lot of people?
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people forgot about Spawn. You don't hear about it anymore, right, Yeah? Man,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: that was fucking great.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had my meant you didn't. Most people didn't
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: see the first adaptation of it. The first uh uh, Well,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: I saw a cut of the movie before. I mean,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: at this time I had like seven he won special
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: effects in it. But Bob Say at the time that
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: was running New Line liked that version. He just gave
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: the director a current botch to just add whatever he wanted.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: And the director was a special effects guy, so he
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: started throwing special effects in there. That was really killing
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: the story, which kind of drove me up up a
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: wall because then, like, you didn't even see why my
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: character wanted to get back. You didn't even see the
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: life that I wanted to get back to because there
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: was so much special effects. And even when I saw
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: the final version, I'm like, what the hell is going on?
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: People that New Spawn, they were fine with it because
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: they understood the character. But for me, it was like
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: the story got all convoluted. But like, you know, but
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, people love it. It was A. I think it
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: was a thing for its time, but unfortunately I saw
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: version of it that made you care about.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: It, I understand, but I cared about the one that
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I saw, and I felt like I don't understand how
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Spawn sort of escaped the zeitgeist. You don't ever hear
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: about Spawn anymore, you know what I mean. There's all
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: these superhero films, all these different things, but Spawn was
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: unique and it was really good and dark and yeah.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: I always said if they did another one, should do it,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: just like the comic book Make It Hard r are
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: non rated, because I mean, like to do a Spawn PG.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: How we did PG thirteen, it's like, what do you want?
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: You're trying to go for breakfast cereal like spawnos or
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: something like like, come on, man, let's go hard like
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: the cartoons.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: See if you find a clip from Spawn, because it's
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like no one talks about it anymore. It's
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: kind of weird.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: The damn sure talk to me about it, Bro. It
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: was good. What year was this ninety seven? A?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were fucking great. Man.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: The Night is Yon, Evil has a new enemy, Justice
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: has a new weapon.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Out of the World has a new hero. Yeah, the memories, Bro,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: that was a fucking great movie. Man, New Line Cinema Presents. Yeah,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: that was a great movie. How many did you guys?
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: Do?
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: One? Just one?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Just one?
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: There was nothing else? Wasn't there something else?
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Like a series? It was a cartoon first, that's right. Yeah,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: well it was comic book. Then it was a cartoon
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: on HBO. Oh that's right. Yeah yeah. Keith David was
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: the voice of Spawned on that one. Yeah. Yeah, and
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: so yeah, but that was a big hit, I think, so, yeah,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: it made it money back.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember it was very popular, Like
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: everyone who was talking about people got excited about, especially
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: people like me that liked the comic books, right, they
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: were very into it.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was always surprised.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: But it just it's weird to me that that that
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: even the comic book Spawn doesn't get brought up anymore.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. Every now and then, like when like I'm
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: off doing a movie whatever, I drive by comic book stores.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: I go and I just start signing shit, right, the
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Spawn stuff. So there's still stuff there.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you always give me a hardcore fan.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So I mean you know there's people like
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: there's still hardcore about that, and then uh, tomcfarlane has
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: talked about doing another Spawn for the last twenty five years.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: It was huge.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: But the thing, the weird thing is, it's like, Okay,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: I wish you all the best of luck, bro, but
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: you created the comic book. When he's talking about doing
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: another Spawn, I'm like, you haven't done a first one
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: like the No, he's not a director like he's It's
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: just like stan Lee hasn't directed a Marvel movie, right,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: And and Tom McFarlane is talking about doing another Spawn.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, well, that would be the first time
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: a person that created a comic book directed and produced
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a movie that I know of, right, Because even though
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: he talks about he's going to do one, and he
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: had this concept that he talked to me about and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: then he said he wanted to you know, I guess
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: he wanted to use Jamie Fox. And he talked about
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: this concept that Spawn would be you wouldn't see him
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: and it's like like Jaws, he would never be around,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: but just people would get fucked up all of a sudden,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: they're you know, like a myst would come and the
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: people are destroyed. I'm like, good luck with that, you know,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but but but he's been talking about
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it for a while, and people say, oh, man, you know,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm sad that you're not the next poem that
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: they're using. Jamie. I'm like, when is it going to happen?
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: They've been he's been saying that for a long time.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: But I'm going, hey, maybe somebody is going to give
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: him that amount of money to do a movie when
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: he's never directed anything before. Right, he hasn't directed anything before.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: He visited set a few times because he created a
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: comic book. Directing a movie is something completely different, you
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I'm like, all power to
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: you if that's happening. But it's like, I wonder why
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: people believe it.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. Yeah, that's a lot to bite off, especially a
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: movie like that, which is probably a large budget.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, but.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: You know, and then you're going to get the executives involved,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: and they're going to fuck with it because they always
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: have to have their sex.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, it's a miracle that a movie gets done
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: the way it's intended. Period. Yeah. I'm like, a lot
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: of times when the movie works, I go, how did
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: some executive not fuck this movie?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: There's only a few guys that can get away with
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: a movie where everybody just leaves them alone. There's a
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: few Tarantinos out there. Let them go, just let him go.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: If you tried to make Once upon a Time in
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: Hollywood and you weren't a successful director, you were just
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: some guy with an idea, someone will come along.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: And that absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, And luckily I'm people leave
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: me alone. I've been I've been directing and you know,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: doing my own things. They go, okay, you got this. Okay,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'll give you the body count. But
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: now if I could put stuff in it.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: You know what's going on with Jamie Fox doing Tyson
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: because that it's been rumored for a decade.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another thing. It's like, weird that Jamie Fox
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: wants to do a Tyson and a Spawn. But it's like,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't take it personally. Very talented guy,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I think Jamie does a very good impression
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: of Mike Tyson.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you got to gain one hundred pounds, right,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: and then Jamie's got to get he's got to pack
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: on that meat at fifty.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: But then why I just I just sit there and
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: I go, why when Tyson's life itself has been very
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: you know, transparent, and so you can see the real
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: guy in documentary form and everything else, what story do
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: you have to tell?
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be a hater, but I'm like,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: I just I'm just curious.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: The only thing that would be interesting is seeing like
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Jamie do it, seeing him pull like you pulled off
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Ray Charles, Like seeing him pull it off. That would
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: that would be the appeal of it, I think, right.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: But in my personal opinion, I don't think that's enough.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: You gotta tell the story, right, I know what you're saying, Yeah,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: you gotta, you gotta. It's gotta be some compelling story.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, hell, I mean, people saw Titanic. You know
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: how it's going to end. But you had to. He
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: had to present a story there. You know.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Jamie is so versatile. Yeah, I mean, there's very few
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: guys that can do all the different things that he
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: can do. He could sing, he can act, he could
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: do stand up, and he could do all kinds of
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: different characters. And I mean, and he's so believable in
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: so many different roles. You know what, I watched the
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: other Day, which is a fucking great movie that I
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: forgot was so great.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: Its Collateral, Oh yeah, yeah, oh my god, no, no,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: when Jamie had Collateral and Ray to me like there was,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: you couldn't have had a better year.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Right, two completely different games.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely absolutely, And.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: He became those people. He became Ray Charles.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: And as good as he can sing. Him singing as
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: Ray Charles was insane.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: It's one of the best I mean performances ever, ever,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you know, ever.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: But so it's Collateral that he really played that dude
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: in Collateral, you believed it. And fucking Tom Cruise.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Tom Cruise really proved something to me
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: in that damn movie because I never been thinking I
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: would never think I would ever be scared of Tom
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: freaking Cruise, right, and how convincing he was.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: He's a bad motherfucker. Yes, he is a bad he's
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: crazy at bat shit, but he's a bad motherfucker.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: You have brought it.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: You have to be that crazy to do all the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: stunt that that guy does. He's sixty years old. He's
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: jumping off buildings and ship and breaking his ankle.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like Johnny Depp, Like I'm like Johnny Depp
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: when he did Black Mask. H Like, I'm like, oh,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: you had that in you, right, ship. And just like
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: with Tom Cruise, I'm like him having that character in him.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: There's a scene in Collateral the tactical instructors play yes
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: the scene with the tap.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, he whips it back, double tap, double.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Knocks the guy's gun out of the way, pulls it out,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: and it's so fast and it's so see you can
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: find that scene, Jamie. It's a scene where they're trying
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: to take Tom Cruise's briefcase and he's in an alleyway.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: That I play that over and over myself.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: The amount of times that he must have drilled that
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: to get that unhosted the gun, pull it out, shoot him,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: shoot the other dude. So smooth, and the way he
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: did it so professional. I mean it looks like a
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: legit hit man.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Oh absolutely absolutely Yeah. That that that was that That
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: that character, I mean, from start to finish, like to me,
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: improved a lot.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he embodied that guy. And you know
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: it is my briefcase is your briefcase? Yeah?
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: It is why you want it back, won't you?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: What what else she got from the huh.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: Come on, son.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually visited that set when they were shooting that,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: not not that scene, but it was another There was
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: another day and it was I remember. It was weird
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: because they were shooting something and they were shooting Tom
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: behind Tom Cruise's head and he had eight camera angles
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: just behind his head. I'm like, and I'm looking at
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: the the you know, the video village where they made
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: sure they had they had a choice of whatever perfect
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: thing that they want. They It was the craziest thing.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, and I guess Michael Mann, he's known for
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: like shooting a lot, but it was like eight cameras
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: that's just behind the dude. Yeah, I'm like, this is
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: a whole nother like level. Yeah, it was crazy. That
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: holds up Oh yeah, yeah, that's prime Jamie Man.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, yep. And the fact that he's got that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: much range that he can do this nerdy dude who's terrified,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't know what the fuck is going on. It's just
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: driving a car and all of a sudden he has
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: his hit man with him and then he gets wrapped
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: up in this whole thing.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But as a fan, I want to see him
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: do something else like that, right, you know what I mean,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: Like something like that requires what he can do, and
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: it's like, you know, that's one of the things, not
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of things out there sometimes, you know. So
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: you know, he's been doing things that I think show
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: you know, certain parts, but like to where he was
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: going in Collateral and and Ray. You know, it'd be
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: nice to see that stuff again.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: It's gotta be hard to find those roles, right And
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: when you find those roles, there's probably like six or
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: seven a list dudes that they have like on a
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: board somewhere and they're trying to figure out who's the
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: guy for this.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I believe you're gone. I believe you got it.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Creates your own stuff, man. Put it this way. Nobody
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: was going to write that black Dynamite right right right,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I had you know, my
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: thing is largely creating my own length of a fun movie.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: By the way, Oh thanks man, it's fun, thanks man.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, man. So Luckily, like I I enjoyed writing.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: I was always looked at everything from it. Was always
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: fascinated about this industry. And uh, I shold a lot
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: of things as a writer separate from the acting thing.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: And so you know, just putting it all together is
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: something that's like I really enjoy doing.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: How do you dedicate your time when you're writing. Do
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: you just like to have an idea and say, okay,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: for the next X weeks, I'm going to sit down
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: and dedicate myself to this, Dude.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: It's all different. A lot of times I will see
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: the entire movie. Like when I did Black Dynamite. Dude,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: I was I was in China getting going to set,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: and I was in Shanghai, and I was listening to
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: James Brown super Bad, and I just started thinking about goofing.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: I'm laughing and in the back of this car and
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: there's a driver wondering what the hell is going on
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: with me? I'm seeing the whole goddamn movie, including a
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: nunchuck fight scene with Richard Nixon, and I'm laughing, And
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: you know, I started jotting stuff down because it occurred
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: to me, man Like, I just like I meaner. One day,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, wow, man Like, growing up, we
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: had Shaft and well, we had we had a super
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Fly and the Mac and all the posters like that
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: that were idolized, and I'm going those were pimps. There
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: was something wrong with my childhood? Why am I? I'm
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: like the mac like that's a hero. And so it
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: made me really think about it, and I'm like, I'm
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: looking at these movies and like Jim Brown and Fred
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Williamson are like killing like sixty people and it's okay,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: everybody's like this. They have a club and then they
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: got all these women and I'm like, this is actually hilarious.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: So I do a movie that depicted it exactly like
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: it is. Thinking about this. One of the biggest movies
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: of that time was Three The Hard Way. I don't
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: know if you remember that movie Jim Brown, Fred Williamson,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: and Jim Kelly.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, not about Jim Kellrey The Hard Way. What
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: was it about?
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: Had the three predominant blaxplotation stars right, And the movie
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: was about an evil doctor Feather who had these leaders
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: of liquid that he was going to put in the
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: water systems of La Chicago and New York that were
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: gonna kill all the black people. It's not comedy, that's
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: the movie. It's not a comedy. It was gonna it
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: was gonna give sickle cell anemia to all the black people. Now,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: the conspirable thing, I've been a black man for a
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: long time. And it is really funny because in the community,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: conspiracy is a big thing, right, so it like that
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: whole conspirable thing. Oh, they're trying to get you, that
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: kind of a thing. It really its engine was that
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: that paranoia that this leader of liquid was going to
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: kill black people.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: Well, there was so much evidence that those conspiracies were real,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: like the Tuskegee.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: But of course that's something that's like it's on its
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: feet though, But come on, a leader, it's something this
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: big in the water systems that was going to kill
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: all the black people. And that's not a comedy. That
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: was a serious movie. But when you look at it,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: that's hilarious. It's absolutely hilarious to think that you can
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: do a movie about that. So to do a movie,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: I thought that really really talked about that time period
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: where it was kind of this overcorrection because you know,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: you had in the sixties there were like you know,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: butlers and maids and all that kind of stuff, but
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: now you had these super overcorrected badasses that could just
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: do anything right. And I thought it was hilarious to
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: look at it and treat it as if it were
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: like back in that day, like like a lost movie. Actually,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Tarantino was somebody I was talking to about that whole
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: thing when I was putting a Black Dynamite together, and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: he had certain ideas, but you know, I kind of
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: went my own direction with it. Well yeah, man, so yeah,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: things like that, Like you know, I I was, I've
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: gotten to a place where I'm you know, putting these
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: things together that really interests me, and I'm finding that
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: there's an audience that likes it as well. But yeah, man,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: so you know, it just occurred to me that it
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: was bizarre. Yeah, yeah, So I.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Mean, you know, so for that movie, that movie just came.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: To Yeah, but it came to me just like the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: whole movie came to me in a ride to set.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Is that normal for ideas or do you sometimes sit
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: down and say, like, I want to write an idea
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: about blank.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Sometimes sometimes like I have a movie that the next
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: movie I'm going to do is a sequel to a
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: movie I did call as Good as Dead right, and
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: it became Samuel Goldwin's one of the most successful movies.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: I wrote the idea. It was based off my brother.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: My brother he went from Florida into Mexico and started
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: a family. He just like fell in love with Mexico
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: and I kind of based my character on him. And
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: he's basically a cop that's like high and out in
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: Mexico and you know, trying to avoid this you know,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: syndicate or whatever that's trying to kill him. But that
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: movie just came to me. I wrote it. We're in
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: production like two months later, and we actually got the
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: movie done within a year.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: And how did you get it made so quick?
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean they responded to the script and it
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: was kind of like a grown up karate kid in
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: a way. So my character, you don't know, what's this
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: black dude doing working construction in Mexico and he's got
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: you know, he's got his wing chunk dummy, and he's
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: training in his backyard. And it's a kid who's trying
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: to avoid the gangs that he'd befriends that he teaches
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: this unique kind of martial art, and so one thing
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: relating to another because kids gets good at it, and
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: they trace the style back to my character. And then
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: you know, then the bad guys are trying to kill
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: me and I have to fight back. So what we're doing,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: we're about to do is sequel. I start that in
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. Actually, so I wrote that one.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: But yes, so I feel like I don't know, I'm
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: I'm still a fan of movies. I don't I wouldn't
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: write something out I wouldn't want to see. And I've
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: seen a lot, you know, I think I understand this industry.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: I understand there's a lot of stories that that I
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: think could be told with fresh ways and with the
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: action and martial arts that could be new and exciting.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: Like I'm getting to a place where I'm trying to
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: make fight scenes look very real, like including choreographic mistakes,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think people have become
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: so much more sophisticated watching UFC fights and all that
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: type of stuff. I think you got to raise the
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: bar to make something look real. And there's a lot
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: of the stuff that's in the you know, the superhero
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: movies and whatever that you just kind of go, Okay,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: you're seeing choreography for choreography's sake, and you're not invested
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: because you don't feel like you're looking at a real fight.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: So I like to kind of, you know, use my
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: platform to step that up a bit.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's hard. Especially as a person who was a
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: martial artist, to watch fight scenes and go you have
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: to kind of suspend disbelief and go all right, well.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Yet kind of like you know, it's weird, but you know,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: kind of full circle. It's kind of going back to
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: the way Bruce Lee did stuff. And he's a little
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: faster than another person. He is a little bit more technique.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, if you imagine, like even if I
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: imagine you in a real fight, your technique is not
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: going nowhere, and other people are not going to have
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: that same technique. You beat, you know, you beat somebody
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: to punch. You do things that will logically give you
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: the edge. That's what you shoot, you know what I mean. Yeah,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: so it's not like you got to do a lot
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: of camera tricks. If you're moving faster and stronger than
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: another person, well there it is there. It is so luckily,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I can put things on screen
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: that kind of resemble what things might look like, you know,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: and you get the benefit of the doubt because you
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: know you're in a heroic position.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: It's just very hard to do that. It's very hard
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: to make it look real. That's there's a real art
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: to that.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But like like with the movie that you
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: turned down, let them bone, I.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: Turned down john Wick four too, though they turned down
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of movies.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: You do, you did. You did the right thing because
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, you could not you know, this could
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: not be more, you know, up your alley doing the
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: things that you're doing.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: But like john Wick was hard. I'm a giant john
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: Wick fan, especially john Wick one, and event there's going to.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: Be there's gonna be a john Wick seven, so you
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: can decide to do.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: They got kind of crazy. They're over the top now,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: but even john Wick one was totally unrealistic. Oh man,
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: totally unreal but so fun. I fucking love those.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I got something that's kind of in that
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: vein that I just finished. There's a lot of body count,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: but a lot a lot of CQB. I've been I've
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: been studying that for a while a lot of close
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: quarter combat. Of course, close quarter battle, but you know,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: I've been doing like you know, uh, a lot of
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: like tactical training and kind of getting myself I may
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: I may compete at at some point. Oh really, yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: I've gotten pretty into it. Well, a lot of places
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: I trained with a guy, Tyler Gray. He's Delta Forrest
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: a lot a lot of friends who are like, you know,
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: special forest guys.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: Do you ever go to Tan Tactical?
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: Oh of course, yeah, yeah, go to Terror is quite
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: a bit. Oh yeah, he's he's a man. He's amazing.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: You want to talk about someone who's very technical.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's just he shoots from the hip,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: like better than anybody's using a laser.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: Know, he's preposterous. And it's always iron sights. You know
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: he doesn't. I mean he uses red dots, but you know,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: he prefers iron sights. He's like they never failed, they
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: never go wrong. Yeah, and he's so crazy accurate. It's
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: wild to watch.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: And when you think about, like how long, how fast
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: could you just take out everybody in this damn room?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's kind of spooky. Yeah, it is spooky.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also he's so calm about it too.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: It's weird, like almost like autistic, like weird fucking rain manish. Yeah,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: like what the fuck? When you watch him do it,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Like many times I've gone to his range and trained,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: and then you know people will go to him into it,
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: like do a run like do this, and he's like, Okay,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: do this, I'm gonna do that and pull this out
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: right here.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: You're like, what the fuck did I just watch? That's crazy?
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: And then you see how many times he's won the championship. Yeah, ridiculous,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: And like there's only a few people that one consecutive
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: years and he's got like seven years in a row
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: and chunk, just chunks, and I'm like, this is crazy.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a very unique talent. Yeah, very unique talent.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, buddy, mye like Tyler Gray, he just he's been Delta,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: he's been uh, he's been decorated, he's oh my god,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: his place in in Vegas. He's he creates guns and
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: he's got like more in his arsenal than every gun
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: store you can imagine. But like he's like he's something else,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: like one of the most mellow people you ever want
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: to meet in your life. And but he's he's been
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: the guy, uh been the consultant and director on Navy
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: seals for years and you know, but I got a
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: lot a lot of friends doing that. So my my brother,
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: he just he just uh retired from secret service, and
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: you know, you know Danny, Danny Hester. He was a
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: former mister mister Olympia classic phys but he's gotten into
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: I mean I shoot with these guys all the time
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: and actually flex wheeler. You know, a lot of the
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: guys are you know, into the gun stuff. You know,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: so we we go set up stuff and you know, but.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Once you start training, you realize like how difficult it
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: is and how long the learning curve is because you think, oh,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: you point, you pull the trigger, what's the big deal.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: Then you get into it, and then you see someone
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: like Taran or someone who's competing, and you go, oh,
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: there's this is just like everything else, just like karate,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: like jiu jitsu. There's levels, levels and levels and levels right,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: and you see people competing and you go, oh wow,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: I'd like to do that someday. Yeah.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a great place for it.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Texas is a great place for it. Oh yeah,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: there's a staccato range that we go to sometimes. It's awesome.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: They have all these different setups out there. They have
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: this old West Town all these different like targets set
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: up and you run from doorway to door. It's pretty badass.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, John Jones, I see he's doing quite a bit.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: Scary human if you get past him. He's got his
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: fucking dog, Dutch. Just you know, he brings a Belgium Melmo.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Everywhere he goes. Yeah. Yeah, I know. A good friend
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Josh Burnett. He's he's at Terrens a lot too. Yeah.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: Scary human being yeah, yeah, and a very analytical intelligence.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: One of the most very well. He is like Jeopardy smart.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: It's like ridiculous. There's not many things that he doesn't know. Yeah,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: he's amazing. I watch you guys, uh, you guys on
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: this show. I was very flattered and he started he
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: mentioned out of nowhere, he started talking about how he
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: was inspired by myself and my wife and that you know,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: he actually got me real choked up. Yeah. I was like,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: what man, He's a great guy. Yeah. You know. Incidentally,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: my wife is somebody that I don't know. You you met
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: her a long time ago. You last saw her sliding
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: down the lug.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: Sare Oh wow, that's crazy. Yep, that's crazy on fear
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: fact on fear factor.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, she was sliding down the lug saw when
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: the last start slip right into my arms. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: we've been doing we've done our sixth movie together, so
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: we've been you know, we got to our teenagers or
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: we got one less well, we got two left in
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: the house going to college now, so you know we're
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: about to betters. Yeah, man, so yeah, it was. It's
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: wild how these things kind of connect. Wild. Yeah, this
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: is wild. Yeah.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: Josh is one of the He's like one of the
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: best examples to me of when people think of a
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: martial artist or think of a cage fighter, former UFC
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: heavyweight champion, and you think of a guy like, oh,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: probably some brute. Some have a conversation with him and
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: you realize the depth of his intellect and the depth
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: of his knowledge, like how much he knows about Nietzsche.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: He can quote nietzschee Oh, he's is so well read.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: He makes his own whiskey. Yeah, you know, he's a
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: very interesting guy.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: Man. What a renaissance guy, a real renaissance. Yeah. We
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: usually we have the same birthday, so sometimes we throw
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: parties together, you know. Yeah, when he's when he's in town,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: he's always in Japan and it's all over the place. Man.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: It's like he's an amazing human being he really is. Yeah.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again one of the best examples, like when
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: people have a stereotype of what they think cage fighter is.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: And Josh was the youngest ever UFC heavyweight champion.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and man, that's probably like I've trained more
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: with him than there's so many people like, you know,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: and uh, it's just it's just what a great friendship
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: and what a what an inspirational thinking person, you know,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: and you know so and you know he did never
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: back down H three with me. We shot that in Thailand.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: What is it like training in Thailand?
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: That's gotta be fun, oh, man, kind of hot.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the motherland of Muay Thai.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Again, like with every style, there's it's it's strengthen its weaknesses.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: You know a lot of a lot of them. You know,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of things around. You know, they go around
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: and not straight right straight. You know, of course, the
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: quickest distance between two points is a straight line. So
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: it's not a whole lot of Uh, well, they could
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: do with a lot more botching technique and and uh
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: some of those things. But man, talk about toughness that
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. But it's kind of a tragic, like
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: how they they beat the ship out of themselves by
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: the time they're in their thirties. Man, they're like, yeah,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: they're busted up.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: Well, they start fighting when they're very, very young. But
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: it's also led to them training so entile diligently.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: One of the things about tie training, they don't spar
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: like a lot of Americans do, where they beat the
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: fuck out of each other. They play spar Yeah, and
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: that play sparring allows them to not get beat up
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: by the time they get into the ring on Saturday,
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: because a lot of them are fighting every week so
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: they do touch sparring, you know. And a lot of
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: people say, oh, you can't get good touch barring, Well,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: she certainly can, absolutely, especially when you're fighting every weekend.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's probably the best.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: Way to do it because you're you're you know, just
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: working on timing, pattern recognition and just getting your just
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: your reps in.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just like with jiu jitsu, of course, when you
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: don't muscle things, when the technique you let the technique
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: do it, it's so much better, right, Yeah, And you
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: maintain so much better as well, right.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: And I think one of the best examples of that
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: is like Sanchai. Because Sanchai is in his forties, He's
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: still fucking people up. It's crazy watching that guy fight.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: But you look at him, a very unassuming guy. You
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: know that it's not ripped. You know, he's an older guy,
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: but he's just his timing and his smoothness and the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: way he moves that's very playful, just fucking people up.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, it makes me I miss Thailand. I
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: actually did my We did our wedding ceremony in Thailand.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah. And you know who was a who
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: who officiated part of it was Tony Jah the Buddhist
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: part of our wedding. He did the water blessing and
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: then he also sang at the wedding. Yeah yeah, he's
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: like box yes, yes, one of one of the greatest
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: martial artists.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: What a great movie that was.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for martial arts technique, that was.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: That was like one of the first times like real
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: true moy Thai was exhibited in a film like.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: Absolutely super high level. Yeah Tony, just my god, Like
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: he would do these incredible feats in front of you,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: just unbelievable. He can do a s you do a somersault,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: hit you in the in the shoulder and just tap
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: you like that with your foot, with his foot. Just
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: he had that much control. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, he
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: was sickly recently, but he's I think he's overcoming. Uh,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: I think it was I think it was a C
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: word man. Oh yeah, And I haven't talked to him
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: in a minute. I just found out about it, like
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: about I know, a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, he was.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: I knew he got thinner, but I'm hoping that he's
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: he's better now.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a legend.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's something else.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: It's so fascinating to me how different parts of the
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: world develop a different style of martial arts. And Thailand
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: in particular, because of the fact that there was so
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: much gambling and there were so many fights, that they
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: developed this very heavy leg kick, clinch, elbow knee style.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: It was just very different than a lot of the
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: other styles. You know, and for a long time was
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: really dominating in kickboxing. But then you're starting to see
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: other styles, like particularly a lot of kyokushan guys now, yeah,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: specifically out of Japan. Have you ever seen this kid,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: Yuki Yosa is Yeah, kyokushing guy out of Japan's dominating people.
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: He fights very different. Man, He's sucking up a lot
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: of tie guys with the calf kicks.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, God No, I hadn't heard heard. I just
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: officiated Ashin tournament yesterday. It was Sunday. Was that two
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: days ago? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm you know,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: I'm still connected in the kyoksh I mean been doing that,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, since I was a kid.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: But you did the whole thing like where you have
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: to fight like a hundred guys in a day.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: You did all that. I've been a thirty man, I
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: haven't done a.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: Hundred exaggerating, but it's like a lot of people.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which is the toughest. Honestly, it's a I
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: love it. It was the toughest thing I'd ever I
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: ever had to really face, because you come to a
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: point where you want to give up and you have
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: to just you know, kind of walk the burning sands.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: What is it like walking the next day?
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: Man? I had I mean I remember the first time
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: I did a tin man and I had several knees
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: on my legs. Put it that way, so because they
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: destroy your legs so bad. Yeah, right, I did a
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: twenty man one other time and made the mistake of
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: having a I had like an energy drink beforehand, which
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: is stupid because now my heart is racing higher than
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: normal and so it made it even harder. But somewhere around,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: like inevitably, you get to a place where I remember
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: the twelfth guy, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Why are you here? You know? But you have to
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: dig deep and you got eighteen more to go. Yeah yeah,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: so I'm like, man, But.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: Honestly, it's such a hard style.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but man, it's something about getting you know, because
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: you're you're gonna be faced with yourself. You're gonna be
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: you want to quit, and you have to just dig
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: down and get through it. And there's nothing like it
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: when you accomplish it because you know where you can go.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: You know that most of the time, I mean, you
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: tell yourself you're done, You're not. What a valuable lesson
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: it is to know that about yourself. Yeah, and you
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: can't there's no substitute for that, and it's just something
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: that you just benefit. I remember the last time I
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: did this, we had to train out in BAMF, Canada,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: because usually these things are in Japan and people from
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: all over the style they come in, they train, You're
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: like training eight hours a day. You got these little
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: lungch breaks and I didn't think it through. I think
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: the last one was like about five six years ago.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: I wanted to challenge myself. I want to do this,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: but I'm by myself and most people come with family
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: members and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: So you're by yourself. You're a movie star.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I had the target on my back. But
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: it's like course, yep, so and so. And it's like
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: we'd have a training thing and then you got a
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: certain amount of time to go eat, but then people
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: want to take pictures of me, and I'm the last
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: guy to get into the to the lunch thing. And
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: then it's like, oh shit, I got ten minutes to
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: eat and then I got to get back in the
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: next training session.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: And you have a full stomach.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then then you got like, I mean, it
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: kind of sucked, but I taught myself something and I said,
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: you know, you could be three hours in. I tell myself,
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: I just got here. I just got here, and I
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: dig deeper and whatever. And then the last few days
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: you're just fighting down to the last person. And you
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: know there's people that's like, you know, they got their
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: their eye on you, because like, you know, I got
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: the bullseye on me. But the great thing is, dude,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: like I said, I learned a lot. I'm doing footwork
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: with Frankie for years. I'm technique. I've got been your
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: key desk. Bill Wallace was my instructor. I've got so
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: many things in my arsenal. And to test myself it's
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: such a it's such a great benefit to to you know.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: And it was weird because I was thinking, like, am
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: I insane? Because I had a movie that I was
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: going to be starting like a week later. I could
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: have just been messed up. I could have had a
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: broken leg or whatever. A lot of times you leave
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: with a souvenir they call it, like you know, when
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: you trade in Japan, a lot of the Japanese want
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: to give you a souvenir that means a broken bone.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: But I had to try to, you know, overcome that.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: So in life, it's especially in this kind of coddled
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: life I'm living, I don't get a chance to test
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: myself that much, right, right, And you know, yeah, I
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: had to, you know, listen to my own complaints and
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: shut the fuck up and get through it.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's not fair because everybody's taking pictures in you're
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: doing this and I'm by myself. No, No, that's not
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: the point is get through it, you know, And I'm
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: so glad to do that, and I always like to.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: That's why I'd like to train with champions and stuff,
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: because you know that's you want to get through things,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: it should be you should be tested. I mean, as
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: if I had a religion, a large part of it,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: if I was the head of my own religious cult,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: would be that men go through something. There's the rights
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: of passage. Yes, you got to know how to protect
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: yourself and your family and your loved ones. That to
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: me is paramount.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: You just have to know what's inside of you. Like
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: that's the only way to find out is to test it, exactly,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: because otherwise you get to these dudes that have the
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: chest pumped out and they're talking loud. Why are they
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: doing that Because they want to scare people off, right,
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: because they don't know what they're capable of. They're terrified.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can't hide from yourself. And that's the
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: thing I'm not going to bullshit myself. I'd like, I
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: want to know, you know, and and it's great, it's
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's no, there's no substitute uh for going through that.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing that I why I love fighters
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: so much. You know, you're you're, you're, you're, you're basically
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: naked to the world. Uh. You have to dig down,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: you have to overcome things. That's why I love them
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: so much because they're there are gladiators. They we live
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: vicariously through them. And that's why I'm a little dogged
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: about actors receiving those accolades when they haven't done it,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, myself included. I don't care
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: if somebody says, oh, he's not a fighter, you know,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: he's an actor. Fine, you should think that way, But personally,
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: it's it's something deeper for myself. And you know, one
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: person I think I identify that is you because I've
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: seen you. I've seen you in the gyms back when
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't popular, and and we're doing it for reasons
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: that are not It had nothing to do with glory
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: or you know, ego or anything like that. It's just
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: for self improvement. Yeah, you know, And that's what it's about, man,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: because it's about overcoming obstacles, and your biggest obstacle in
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: the world is yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: My instructor when I was very young told me that
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly so hard.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, people need something hard?
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And what about kobebes?
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: What a KB say? Like what he says about discipline?
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: Oh? That rant I had to record?
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: Oh that I don't know.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: If that rant is real. Somebody told me that r
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: AI what Yeah? Is it Ai?
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: Damn it? What?
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: Well? Who cares?
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 2: Boys, and I bet Kbe would agree with every word
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: he said, Yes, yes, you know I rant because let's
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: part and it's not a or. It may be one
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: of AI's greatest contributions to martial arts. It is becoming
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: addicted to discipline.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: Every man addicted.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great brand here it is. Give me this,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: give me this. It's such a fucking great rand. Start
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: from the beginning too.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: Every man addicted to something. Some smokes un during, some
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: chase girls, some waste time, But real man be addicted
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: to discipline, to early wakes, to create, to training, to silence, discipline,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 3: no need motivation, discipline, move without feeling. Discipline, say I
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 3: go anywhere, even when tired, even when lonely. Discipline is
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 3: best addiction. We want strong life, discipline buildings. You want peace,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: discipline protected. You want respect, discipline earn it no shortcut,
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: only work. Be men with control, not men with excuse, no.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: Crime, no blame.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: You want better life. Start with better habits every day
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 3: until discipline become you.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: Fucking yeah.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't give it Ai or whatever like, well,
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: kudos to the Ai person that put that together.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how he lives. Yeah, so even if it's Ai,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: he would go this is.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: Well I'll tell you what, man. That part of the world, Dagistan.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: You want to talk about a hard part of the
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: world that is developing some of the baddest motherfuckers, even
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: in muy Thai. There is this cat coming out of
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: muy Thai at a Dagistan right now, asadula Iman Gazaaliev,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: who's like twenty two years old, and he is fucking
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: everybody up. A Dagasthtani muy Thai fighter who has his
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: own style. He's this tall, lanky dude who's one of
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: the most terrifying strikers alive right now. A lot of
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: people think he's the best striker alive. Oh man, he's
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: twenty two, twenty two or twenty three years old, and
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: he's just fucking everybody up. He fights for one FC.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: Give me a highlight reel of this cat.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 3: Didn't pop up right away.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: So that's it. Best technical striker in the world, that's it.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: Click on that. Just give me some of this just
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 2: started from the beginning. This dude, that tall dude with
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: the beard alav Watch this motherfucker. What a style he has.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just this long, tall, lanky dude, perfect
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: timing and measurement, and he just starts piecing dudes up. Yeah,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: well I don't think so. If you screwed ahead, I
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: think he fucks this guy up pretty quick. I've seen
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: this fight. This guy he catches with one shot, but
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: some dudes not so lucky. Oh man, Yeah, that was
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: one shot, but it keeps going. And then give me
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: the next fight. He just starts lighting guys on fight,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: including ties, and they they don't know what the fuck
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: is going on because he fights different than them. I mean,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: he's a muy Thai fighter.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: He's got that straight You know that he's exploiting the
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: fact that they got so much round.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: Technique exactly a lot of front kicks up the middle
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: and especially to the face, but also his spinning attacks.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: He's got wicked spinning attacks man, and also comes off
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: angle a lot. His head's never on the center line.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: Super fucking technical, but just lighting dudes on fire.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: And just.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: An attacker, always attacking and has the benefit of that range,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: that long range. Yeah, I mean, dude is incredible, incredible
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: and again twenty two years old, Like look at that.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: So he's combining like taegmund No techniques, karate techniques and
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: precision muy Thai. I mean, the problem with this this
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: not this style, but this form is that a lot
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: of people aren't seeing it. One FC is doing a
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: really good job of highlighting a lot of like elite
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: moy Thaie fighters. You know, they have Tawan Chai over
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: there and said it Chai and all these like high
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: level guys. But in America, this for whatever reason, has
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: not caught on. And the only way this guy's going
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: to get the kind of attention that I think he
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 2: deserves is if he gets into m M A boom yeah,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: axe kick and everybody's spinning backfist boom his straight rights. No, dou,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: he's a laser beam. He's so focused. He's so good man,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: so good.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: So the Daghistanis are now entering into muy Thai, which
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 2: is a terrible sign for all these moy Thai guys.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Those are hard people, hard people who start at a
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: very young age, I mean a very young age like
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: and also Dagistani's now because of Kabib and Islam. They
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: all know that this is a pathway to greatness. Yes, yeah,
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: and so the heroes and they're commune Anklav. There's all
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: these guys that have been world champions out of Dagistan now.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: So it's like you're seeing all these guys come out
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: of there, and some of these young guys that are
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: coming up are so good. They're so good. But this
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: is fascinating to me that you take a guy who's
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: adapted this taie style but then morphed it into something
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: that's different. And again, like you were saying, a lot
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: of straight techniques, especially when you're a tall guy like
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: that for the weight class, because I think he fights
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: at one forty five, and when you're that tall, at
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: one five, and you've got those straight shots down the
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: middle like.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: His right is just like you can't really see it
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: right directly at them.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: But it's also the hooks too. His hooks are coming
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: around the guard like everything is precise and his accuracy
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: is spectacular.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a student, obviously. I watch every fight I can.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: I watch.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: I watch kickboxing, I watch muay Thai, I watch jiu
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: jitsu matches, I watch it all. I'm always fascinated by
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: these cats that stand out, and this guy just stands out. Yeah.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great when somebody knows how to use their
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: link like that.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, Yukiosa, the kylkushing guy that I was
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: telling you totally different. This guy is doing a shelling
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 2: up and getting in tight on guys and kicking the
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: fuck out of their inner thigh outer calf lower like
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: he's chopping at their legs. Even Thai guys don't know
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: what to do because they're not used to guys kicking
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: their calves like this guy, right, So he's inside going
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: shinda shin. And you know, as well as anybody, Kilkishen
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: guys have some of the most conditioned chins.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: In the world.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: They're always battering shindishin and this dude is just getting
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: in and you see in the second round a lot
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: of these tie guys like, oh fuck, I can't walk,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: I can't move right, my calves don't work anymore. So
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: the calf kick, which is really kind of revolutionized MMA.
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: It's changed MMA because one two hard calf kicks your compromise.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: You're not moving right anymore and you're not pivoting off
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: that foot when you're punching, so you're punching powers diminished.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: This yuki Yosa guy is like putting it on tie
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: guys with it.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: That's something I mean, especially for guy to I mean
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: the not with I've been doing it ever since I
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: was a kid. It's just that not developing facial exactly
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: facial uh you know, uh, box, Well.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: This guy is incorporated Russian style boxing. He's got Russian
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: style boxing with kyokh and karate technique.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but that with that Russian style boxing that there,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: they really kind of mastered the non telegraph kind of yeah,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: because it looks like.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: Going fast yuki Yosa highlight reel. There's a bunch of
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: fights with him and Thai guys and you know, the
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 2: first round, Thai guys are doing their thing and it looks,
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: you know, like a normal fight, but the Yukiyosa just
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: starts chopping at those cats inside and he's like multiple
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: kicks to the calv from in tight and close.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's punishing.
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: And you see guys like playing like go ahead, kick me,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: kick me, and then after a while like fuck, don't
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: kick anyone. They're trying to get macha with him that
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: it is not working.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would it take to develop like this
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: is yukos there's like.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: Like you see how he's like he chopped, he's chopping
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 2: when he's getting tight. He's always look how much he's
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: utilizing the like all the karate techniques but also in
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: tight just destroys guy's legs, but also spinning back kicks
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: all that other ship. But look at his boxing is
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: excellent too. Oh a lot of Muay Thai stuff dumping people,
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: but look at that he's constantly kicking the inside of
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: the leg when they're committing.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: The kicks, he's.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: Taking their legs out. This dude one of my favorite
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: guys to watch right now, Like, look that's a tie guy. Man,
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: He's just destroying their legs. Man Man an excellent movement,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: and he comes out of a very high level gym
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: in Japan that's produced a lot of really Masasaki Norri
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: another guy who's like that, who's a very similar guy
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: who beat Taiwan Chai recently. Like, these guys are just
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: destroying people's legs. So they're utilizing a lot of the
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: question mark kicks, a lot of the stuff that evolved
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: in kilkushion, but putting it into kickboxing. Also with the
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: toughness that is in you know a lot of the
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 2: kikushion fighters.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see, I see him slip into like a superman. Yeah,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: everybody's gonna be susceptible for that. And you've got a
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: kick a leg kick that that's that's that legitimate.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're gonna bite on that.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: And then he uses a superman punch yeah yeah yeah.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: And another very young guy. So there's these people that
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: are exploiting like these holes in these styles because some
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: of these Thai guys are so hard compete. By the
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: time they they're competing and they're twenty five years old,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: they might have one hundred and fifty fights, so much experience.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: But his cats figuring them out. Man, It's really interesting
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: to watch.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would love to see I wish there
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: was like some kind of governing body that we get
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: all the like some like superstars whatever, you get this
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: guy versus this guy.
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: From Well One is doing that a lot. But you know, One, unfortunately,
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: is not that popular in America. What I love about
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: ONE is they'll have grappling competitions, they'll have kickboxing, they'll
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: have Moay time, and then they'll have MMA. They'll have
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: them all combined on one card.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: One is the one that Michael Shavello is on, right.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he was on that. Michael Chavelle's not with One anymore.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: Michael Schavelle is one of the best commentators.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's excellent.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: Great guy too.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: I'll be seeing I'll probably be seeing him in another
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: like three weeks going to Australia. Going to Australia.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: My wife and I we're going to Well, we did
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: a tour. I do like seminars over there and you know,
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: meet and greets and stuff like that. We haven't done
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: that in a while. But yeah, guys, I'm really good.
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: Some good fighters out there.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, John w par Yeah, you know, some great
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: fighters have come out of Australia.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, we're gonna have some fun out there.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're in the New Zealand.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, another hotbed. Oh yeah, another hotbed for fighters. Well,
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: just warrior cultures, you know, absolutely, warrior history.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: I've never met an Australian that I didn't like.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: I know, the nicest people. Yeah, they're the coolest people.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: They're friendly.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's going, you have rights of passage still, you know,
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: places like that, you know you. I mean, it's that's
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: one thing that it's sad about the United States. It's
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: like we're not making men anymore, not a lot of them.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 2: When they are, they stand out.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that's why it's like a lot of
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: times in these movies, if you have an alpha male,
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of times that alpha American alpha male is
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: being played by an Australian or somebody from Yeah, it's
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's very rarely and we got it.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: So it's like such a trip. Man.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: Now, masculinity is demonized here for some strange reason. Over
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 2: the last couple of decades.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: Bro I saw the beginning of a lot of it,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: because you know. I say, I was a school teacher
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: and I was right on the forefront seeing that everybody
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: gets a trophy. You know, these kids, you know, they're
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: you know, there's about their self esteem and you got
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: to protect that. I'm like, come on, and you know
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: taking away competition. Yeah, that just I saw the beginning
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: of that ship and it's just so so bad. Then
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: then these kids don't know how to deal with loss
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: or anything, and then they end up shooting a classroom.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: You know, it's dealing with loss is one of the
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: most important lessons you could ever learn. If you want
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: to get better, lose. Losing is the best medicine Because
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: you lose, I don't ever want to feel that again.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: And then you start thinking about all the things you
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 2: cut corners on, all the things that you didn't do.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 2: What can I do differently to make sure that never
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: happens again? Then I never feel that feeling.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: Or you quit.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: Those are two options. Either you get way better or
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 2: you quit. But winning sometimes you don't learn. You know,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 2: you go, well, I'm doing the right thing, I'm winning,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: I'm getting better, I'm developing confidence. That's good. But man,
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: sometimes a loss is the best medicine.
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I realized something when I was you know,
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: I was I was born with some gifts. Okay, I did.
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: One thing that got me into college is decathlon. I
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: at a as a fluke. I jumped into a race
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: against one of the fastest guys on the track team
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: and beat him right, And that was just a fluke,
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: and the coach saw that. The track coach saw that
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: and was like, oh my god, you're fucking running for
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: the school. I was like, okay, Like I was just
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: like I didn't have anybody, any kind of adult that
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: took a liking to me like that. And next thing
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm on the track team and I and
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: I started, I mean, I was really good. And then
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: I wound up going to college because of that. And incidentally,
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: that's the stuff that really kind of taught me to
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: kind of evolve my martial arts, because nowhere is there
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: a benefit of like cutting off fractions of seconds in
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: movement like track, Like when I'm doing the shot put, well,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of times I was competing against people that
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: were ginormous and all they have to do is stick
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: their arm out and their arc was going to be
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: better than mine. Well, I had to generate enough power
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: to go to the forty five degree angle in inertia
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: and all that to get past them. And with running,
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: of course, if you shoot the gun off, all your
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: motion has to go forward. If you go backward, you're
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: going to be a step behind everybody. So as far
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: as efficiency of motion, all the things I had to
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: do with TRACK, I started applying and fighting, and that's
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: what kind of gave me cheat codes into things to
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: where being super efficient really helped, right, and so one
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: thing would like kind of help the other. But like, yeah,
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of my whole track thing was a great benefit.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: But I did learn that I was kind of in
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: a way like the Bo Jackson's or the herschel Walker's.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: I was gifted. And so when I would fight, you know,
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: I was a big guy that was fast and it
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: didn't you know, that was kind of rare. So fighting
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: was easy to me. But I learned that when I
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: was as the celebrated fighter, that was less of a
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: good martial artist, because then I kind of would kind
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: of flake off other things, like I wasn't I didn't
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: try as hard as other people. And that's another thing.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it could be really said, but
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: it was a thing that he said about those gifted people.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: A lot of people who are gifted were not the
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: best fighters.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a quote from him, Yeah exactly.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I took that, you know, that same thing
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: because I realized, dude, you're you're you're, you're doing it wrong.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: You're I mean, my philosophy was, like, I feel I
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: adapted the philosophy of Okay, say this kid, Sean is
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: one hundred and forty pounds and there's me, and it
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: takes me a thousand kicks to become fatigued, and it
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: takes him one hundred kicks to become fatigue and he
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: pushes to one hundred and twenty and I pushed to
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: one thousand and one. Who's the better martial artist? He
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: is because he's pushed into his comfort zone, he's pushing
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: himself further. What if he one day gets to a thousand.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: For him to go from one hundred to a thousand,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: that's going to be a quality nine hundred that I
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: don't have me being the gifted one. Right, I'm looking
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: at and using the comparative method saying well, you know,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean at the end of the year,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: I used to kick a basketball ram. You know, I
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: I had that ability, but when I started thinking about, well,
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: what I compare myself to other people, that was the
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: wrong thing. So I said, no, I'm going to be
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: like Sean. I want to train to my ability, not
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: in comparison to someone else. And that really taught me
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: something as far as like, again, why I put myself
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: through these things and the benefit of it by really
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: like when what the martial arts really teaches is, you know,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: in the fact that, yeah, I had these gifts, but
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: if I if I use those gifts as a crutch,
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: I'm limiting what I can be, right, You're limiting your
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: potential exactly, And so oftentimes it's too easy for the
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: gifted guys, and so they kind of slack off, right, Yeah,
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that that's that's and I realized that's what
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: I was doing.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: They also are not as comfortable with struggle, absolutely, and
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: being comfortable with struggle is a very important part of growth.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it's it's it's a it's a
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: mixed message because we start to uh admire the the
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: freak sometimes. Uh we as as men, we celebrate the
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: pugilists a lot, and that's kind of a thing that
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: where came full circles where Okay, yeah, I'm able to
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: do these things, but is that really me? Is that
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 1: is that the limit of what I can be? And
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: by having someone else go oh yeah you can do
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: this or that, that's kind of a it's not really
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: the the crux of it, you know what I mean,
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: And it's really about like, yeah, there's going to be
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: people that's going to praise what you can do physically,
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: but is that But I realized there was a point
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: where that was kind of retarding where I could be
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: mentally and what I can really become.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: We also have a responsibility to those gifts, right, because
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: if you're gifted athletically, you have a responsibility of achieving
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: the full potential because you've been given this thing by genetics,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 2: by life, by God, this thing where you are faster,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: you move quicker, you have more explosive power. But are
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: you going to harness that gift and allow it to
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: reach its full potential? And when you do that, then
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: you get a Mike Tyson. When you do that, then
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: you get a Michael Jordan. You do that, then you
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: get an elite of the elite. You get what David
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: goggins always like to call uncommon amongst uncommon men, right,
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: And that's that's the real hard thing to do because
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: so many of these like really gifted guys in the gym,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: they always kind of peter off and disappear, and and
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: when they were in a fight where they fight another
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: gifted guy that maybe trained a little harder them and
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: maybe he's got a little bit more experience, they realize that, Man,
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to struggle like that. I don't like that.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: I don't like that feeling. I like beating up guys
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: in the gym that are below me.
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you gotta deal with that person in
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: the mirror.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's not hard for guys when they they're
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: the hammer of their whole life. And then one day
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: that the nail. And you see guys that are like
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: really elite, that are dominating, and then one day they
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: get fucked up and then you never see him again
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 2: ms oftentimes, but then you'll see the guy who like
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: gets sucked up a bunch of times and keeps showing up.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: He keeps showing up and keeps learning, and then you realize, like, oh,
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: this guy is now elite.
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are the true heroes to right, you know, right,
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: you know there's people I don't want you know, sometimes
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 1: you get in trouble pointing out people like like I
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: don't want to say somebody like Izzy or whatever, but
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 1: but like you see the people who are used to
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: having that ability over other people and when it gets hard, right,
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: and then it's like even sometimes there's a there's a
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: talk about even Tyson and as just people are just
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: spectators when you go, oh man, there's guy, this guy
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: is so gifted. Now, Uh, some of the knock has
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: been that when it became hard, you hadn't seen him
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: dig down and overcome that thing, you know, because a
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: lot of times when it got hard, it was like
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: he just you know, kind of tapped out. And so
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: that's something that you know, not to disparage him, but
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: it's just as people are looking at life, we look
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: at you know, we look at those things and we
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: can take a lot of meaning from that and imply
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: that and say oh wow, it's I mean, if that's
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: on him to say, oh was that the case? Or
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: I think where is it? Is something that I don't know.
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: If I think with Mike it's a very special case
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: because I think he had the elite coaching in the
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: beginning with Custom Model and training, and then when Cus died,
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: he was kind of left with all this amazing ability
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: that he had developed when he was young, but not
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: with the elite coaching. Like so if Mike had left
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: when Custom Model died, if he had then went to
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: Emmanuel Stewart or if you know what I'm saying, if
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: they had then went to an elite boxing coach and
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: had someone analyze his tye and someone he really respeected
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: that he could still maintain that same level of discipline
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: when he was the twenty one year old dominating the world.
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, but he has so much pressure on him,
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: so much because you know, I had to play him,
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: so I had to study everything he did. And it's
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: interesting because, oh my god, like I always viewed him
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: as somebody who was always looking for a father figure,
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: and I would study him, and you know, with Custom Model,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: he would dressed like Custom Model. He's a young black
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: guy from Brooklyn with suspenders, you know, and the Cavy
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: had like you know. And then when custom Otel was gone,
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: he was around Kevin Rooney, and Kevin Rooney had this
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 1: really fast way of talking and it seemed like he
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: adapted that when he was with uh with uh uh no, Shoot,
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: why am I blanking the other? The other manager Jim Jacobs.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: Jim Jacobs, you know, Jim Jacobs was married, and he
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: I think marriage became important to him at that point
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: because he was really under the you know, the umbrella
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: of Jim Jacobs. And then when he was with with
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: with uh Don King, the n words that every third
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: word out of his mouth very much like Don King,
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: he goes to prison, He's got two father figures on
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: my mouth, say tongue, and he's got uh, you know,
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: Arthur Ash on another shoulder, and I and and I
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: would just notice that, like even speech patterns would change,
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: you know. And I looked at him as Wow, here's
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: a guy that I felt like I identified with a
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: great deal because coming from the same kind of kind
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: of place.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, It's it's interesting because I think a lot
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: of people don't know how much struggle he had to
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: deal with, because the people think that Kevin Rooney was
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: kind of a savior in that situation when he wasn't.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: Kevin Rooney explained to me directly that he he says,
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: if you ever see Mike please please apologize for me,
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: because when I mean, when Mike was was married to
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: Robin Gibbons, he didn't want to do this interview. And
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: then turn around, Kevin Rooney did the interview, and Kevin
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: Rooney is like, I really messed up when I did that.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: And Kevin Rooney even told me that when at the
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: Sphinx fight alone, Kevin made like over a million dollars
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: he left, He left that casino owing Mike had to
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: bail him out like so many times, and so people thought, oh,
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: Kevin Rooney is no Mike was. I mean, he had
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: so much pressure on him. And I think with Don
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: King trying to hire Mike's courts to help out, is
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: he going to hang out with him anyway to try
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: to just do that? He had so much. This dude
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: has so much pressure on him, it's unbelievable.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: And Don King definitely took advantage of that.
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I believe so. Yeah, you know because I
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: knew Don from because I was always in the fight
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: camps with with Frankie Laus. In fact, that's how I
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: got to first meet Mike Tyson. When Mike was in prison,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: Frankie put Mike and I on the phone together, and
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: so I would, you know, do my little kind of
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: interviewing of Mike while he was I was in prison,
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: because I was going to do I was going to
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: be playing him. So I wanted the whole story, and
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: you know, and I went to Catskills on my own
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: and knocked on that door and and spent time with
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: the people he grew up with in that that house.
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: You know. So I learned a lot. There's a lot
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: that you know, the public doesn't know. Uh, and that
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: I think he was concerned about, you know, coming out
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: and you know, it didn't and uh and so it
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: was it was really interesting. I just got. I got.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: I was front and center on how much pressure this
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: guy had to deal with he had to kind of
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: develop with the whole world looking over his shoulder. Yeah,
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: and he was twenty.
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's crazy, youngest ever heavyweight champion of the world.
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: He's went from being a thirteen year old kid with
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: no family to being adopted by this guy who's not
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: just training him but also hypnotizing him. And then he's
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: got Jim Jacobs, who exposes him to this library of
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: all the greatest fighters of all time. He's watching video footage.
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: Of it, Bill Caton Jim, Yeah, it's an.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: Extraordinary story because it's like unlike anyone else's like the
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: environment that he was exposed to and the way it
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: produced this guy who was unlike any heavyweight before. I mean,
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: in his problem. I always point to the Marvis Fraser fight.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: I always tell people, you want to see, like the
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: scariest motherfucker that ever stepped into the ring, Mike Tyson
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 2: versus Marbus Fraser. He was just undeniable, just undeniable. But
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: that pressure, the kind of pressure that no one could
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: explain what that's like. There's no Internet back then, so
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: there's not as many favorite famous people, so like, who's
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: gonna who's he going to relate to, Who's gonna tell
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 2: him what this is like? There's no one like him.
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: You had Muhammad Ali, you had a few other guys
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: that could maybe tell him what it was like. But
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: for the most part, he's he's got no roadmap and
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: he's out there in this world of superstardom. We could
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: do whatever the fuck he wants. Everywhere he goes, people
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: are screaming and cheering, and he's knocking everybody out in
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 2: the first round.
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, the pressure on that man. And then they
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: have to fight holy Field, right, a guy who was
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: really kind of more like a big brother than him
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: throughout his life, you know, his professional life, because you know,
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: holy Field was his crew. He was a cruise away,
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 1: you know, and holy Field was the type of guy
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: how you doing, Mike and checking on him and all
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: that type of stuff. Then he has to fight this guy.
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: And there was deep down like he's got to fight
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: this guy who's this he's got this reputation as a
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: holy man and he's all this type of stuff. And
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: then I remember being being at that fight, and I
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: remember the press conference and Mike was like really manufacturing
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: this hatred that I was like, that's not real, Like
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: he's trying to dig down to really get this edge
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: to really hate holy Field. And I was like, that's
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: a that's a I thought that was a mistake. But
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: and I don't think psychologically he was in his his game.
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, I think in fact, the holy man thing was
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: a big deal. Like holy Field had this incredible belief
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: in God and he really believed that, you know, God
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: was looking out for him and he was going to
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: go in there and yeah, and then couldn't be deterred dude.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: The third round. I mean looking for course, I studied
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: all this stuff on Mike Tyson. Third round of that
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: first fight got chills because, think about it, he heard
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: something that he never heard his entire career. Everybody started
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: chanting for the other guy, holy Field, and I swear
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 1: to you, I saw just the air come out of
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 1: this guy. And it was like, I've done all of
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 1: this and they're chanting for this man. And how gracious
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: he was, how Tyson was at the end. I felt like,
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: that's not a new thought. You kind of had that
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: opinion of him going into this.
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 2: Well. Holy Field had been through the wars, right, He
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 2: had those wars with Riddick Bow, He had the first
• 2:19:45
  Speaker 2: war with d White Mohammad Kawei remember that fight us Wait,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 2: oh my god, go back and watch that fight. He
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: had the war with Burt Cooper.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: He had war and holy Field was unflappable. He's like
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know what I might say it's
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: about me, but.
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 2: It's like he's just like he never got angry. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: it's like how you doing.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: It's hard to maintain like anger for that dude. Like
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: he's just like Okay, that's.
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: Also terrifying too. You know, you can't get in there.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: You're trying to get in that head and it's like
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: there's you're not getting in there. Gods in there.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I was like, if you look at it,
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: you know Mike Tyson was committing to every first blow. Ye,
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 1: holy Feel is a counter fighter. Fake him, let him
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: throw that counter and you got him. And I was like,
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: I think, normally Mike knows this holy Fields center of
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: gravity so different. He's thin legged, big up top, Mike
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: should be able to push him easily, easily. I didn't
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: see the things that I normally saw for Mike Tyson
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: in that fight, which made me feel like, this is
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: a psychological component.
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 2: It's a psychological opponent, but it's also a training component
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: because again, he wasn't with an elite trainer at that time.
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't the same. It's him being trained
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: by Costa model, it wasn't the same. He didn't have
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 2: the bobbing and weaving style that he used to.
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: I remember he caught holy Field with the body shot
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: and the uppercut and just like basically you almost said
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: you saw finish him, but he just chilled. Do you
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: remember that moment?
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: I don't specifically, Yeah, there's a moment.
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: There's a moment like that. But he heard him, and
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: holy Field looked like It's like.
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but holy Field would rebound.
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, but you look at Tyson, you look at
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: almost everything he's done. I thought I was about to
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: see the beginning of the end, and I'm like, what
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: the what the I remember being there going why isn't
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: he jumping on him? You know me? And maybe I'm
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: wrong or whatever, but I swear I saw that moment
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: and I remember going, what's going on? Why is he
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: not jumping on him? I mean, it's interesting.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: Psychology plays a big role in how you feel about
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 2: the opponent, and the opponent essentially holds up a mirror
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 2: and allows you to look at yourself and he's comparing
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 2: himself to this holy man.
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: You probably didn't like it, Joe, you know, I think
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: that's the way I thought about it, And of course,
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: who am I to do? But this is my opinion.
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: Those dudes that kind of character like holy Field hat
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 2: at the time, those are scary guys because like they
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 2: can't be broken mentally, right right, They're always gonna and
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: if you try to break them physically and he rebounds like,
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 2: oh god, how much I have left in the tank?
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, more these shots can I take?
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: Like now it's different if somebody like taunted you, now
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 1: you can you know, manufacture like you know. But when
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: guys just like, Okay, I'm just doing my thing, you
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 1: kind of start going, oh is it me?
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 1: Because you don't then you know, it's like that's the
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: that's when you had Fadors somebody like that. It's just
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: like like this, it's like you you do yourself stoic
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: because I can't. I can't derive nothing from him.
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, he was the best. Yeah, yeah, Vador
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 2: was the best at it. Vador would be the middle
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: of the most chaotic war and it looked like he
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: was just sipping a cup of coffee. It's crazy. There
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 2: was no one like that guy. He is one of
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 2: the most unique characters, and I think we were robbed
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: of one of the greatest heavyweight matchups of all time
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 2: when they never figured out how to put Kane Velasquez
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 2: versus fad Or when they're both in their primes.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: Man Kane Velasquez is the scariest person I've ever seen.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned, Like, if there was one
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: guy that because I pride myself that I get and
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 1: ring with anybody.
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: That guy, man, he never got tired. Man, he had
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 2: for a heavyweight that was like a marathon runner. It
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 2: didn't make make sense. He's a two hundred and forty
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: pound guy who never got tired. Yeah, it didn't perfect technique. Yeah,
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: And I think the fights with.
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 1: Junior Del Santo's I feel like they ruined each other. Yes,
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like they ruined each other.
• 2:24:17
  Speaker 2: Well, I think certainly ruined Junior, especially the second fight.
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 2: The first fight. Junior caught the first fight. Kane should
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: have never took that fight. Kane had to take that
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 2: fight because it was on Fox. It was a big deal.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 2: It was the main event of the Fox the first
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: Fox card, and Kane blew his knee out. So if
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: you look at that fight, Kane's wearing a knee brace.
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: His knee was fucked up, like his moniscus was torn.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: He was all fucked up. He couldn't anchor on it,
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 2: he couldn't really post on it, and then he couldn't
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 2: get out of the way, and Junior caught him with
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 2: a big right hand, cracked him, dropped him, stopped him,
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: and then he comes back. Here it is, here's Tyson
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: versus Holyfield.
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Holyfield's still there. He's still there.
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: If really has a chance, he has a chance. Right now.
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 1: Evander's hurt that right handed. But you heard what he said,
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 1: right yeah.
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 2: But I took some rigs out of abandon right away.
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 2: He got biggest rapper Mike yet. But the thing about
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 2: Evander was always there. He had been through these kind
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 2: of fights before.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: But I don't know where I am, but I was there,
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 1: and something about seeing that I felt like, oh, he's
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 1: about to take him out.
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 2: But I think because of Vander rebounded and Evander had
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 2: a history of rebounding of wars, absolutely both.
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: It still doesn't change the fact that there was I
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 1: feel like there was an opportunity and he that was
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 1: a very Untyson like situation.
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 2: I just don't think Tyson was Tyson anymore by this time.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think he was a one punch guy
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: by this time. He wasn't cutting those crazy angles. Rude
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: slide off to the side and ripped the body and
• 2:25:57
  Speaker 2: you're standing right in front of guys. He lost a
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: lot of what made him special, which was the speed
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 2: of combinations and the movement.
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 1: The movement is a moment because he couldn't have He
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 1: could have never gotten that far if he didn't do that.
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 2: Show that Marvis Fraser fight, Show that Marvis Fraser fight.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: Tyson versus Marvis Fraser is my favorite favorite Tyson performance
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 2: because Marvus Fraser looked like he was going to a
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: funeral at the beginning of the fight. Look at him.
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 2: I mean you feel the energy from his face.
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: And he didn't play the Covenant right after this with
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: the grizzly Bear just mauling.
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 2: It's the same facere it is he just all over
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 2: Marvis like from the beginning. This was on ABC Wide
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 2: World of Sports. I remember watching this at home. But
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 2: look at the bobbiting and the weaving. It's not just
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 2: right in front of him, it's angles like way to.
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 1: Hear boom, oh man, oh man.
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 2: That was when he was the champ. I he wasn't
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 2: the champ yet, but he was the champ. He was
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 2: about to fight Trevor Ibic, but everybody was like, oh
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: my god, he's real.
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here's here's the thing that sparked some controversy Mike
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 1: Tyson versus Muhammad Ali.
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 2: Depends on which Tyson and which Muhammad Ali.
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: Was the best of you say, of course he got
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 1: the best.
• 2:27:14
  Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali wasn't Muhammad Ali. I think it was Cashus Clay.
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 2: I think the best was when he fucked Cleveland Big
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 2: Cat Williams. To me, I always tell people like you
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 2: want to know Ali before they took his title away,
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 2: before they put him on the shelf for three years
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 2: because he wouldn't fight in Vietnam. Watch Cleveland Big Cat Williams.
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 2: Because Cleveland was a big, scary power puncher, and Muhammad
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: Ali was just dancing around him, dancing around.
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 1: But was he bigger than though? When that's the thing
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 1: about Muhammad Ali. People don't realize he was like the
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: biggest guy in the ring. You know, he was only
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: four pounds different than than For meant, people don't realize
• 2:27:49
  Speaker 1: because he moves around the way he moved back then.
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 2: But in the Cleveland Big Cat Williams days, he was lighter.
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 2: He was he was something like two fifteen or two twenty,
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 2: and Cleveland Williams.
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: Was us big.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 2: Look at the size of Cleveland. Look at his back.
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 2: Look at the back on Cleveland.
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: Look at his legs though.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was a power puncher, man, you watched something.
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 2: Look at his back. Cleveland was a scary dude.
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 1: Man. He might be lean, he might be lean, But
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali's a big dude. Oh he's definitely a big
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: I think. But he's bigger than that guy. Maybe.
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 2: But look at the movement, man. Oh so this movement
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 2: was absent when he came back three years later. He
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: never fought like this again. And when he fought Cleveland,
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 2: big cat Williams, Cleveland just did not know where he was.
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 1: He was twelve.
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 2: Williams was too ten. Okay, well, dudes are smaller back then,
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 2: Like think about Rocky Marciano. He was only one eighty five.
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: But the thing is that people don't realize because he's
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: fighting like a lighter guy. You got a bigger guy.
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: He didn't get especially you know, you tricked people are
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: coming in and that magnifies everything.
• 2:28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of, But they're basically the same size. But
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 2: two twelve is fairly small. This is smaller than Mike
• 2:28:56
  Speaker 2: was when Mike was in his prime, and you know
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 2: Mike was only like two fifteen.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, two twenty one. So that's why it's interesting because
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 1: like Mike moved his head and the people who did
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 1: the best against Muhammad Ali was with Joe Frasier and
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 1: Ken Norton, but he moved their heads.
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, but again these are the guys after this three
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: year break, this three year break, Muhammad Ali didn't train,
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 2: He didn't train at all for three years. When you
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 2: watch when he comes back after that, like, come on, son,
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 2: the speed and Cleveland's like, what the fuck? Yeah, you
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: But speed and the bigger guy. That's that's the thing.
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: That's the thing that because like you know, you thought
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: when we were going in this clip that he was
• 2:29:36
  Speaker 1: bigger than Muhamma Aldi. Yeah. So but the thing is
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 1: like people don't realize how big Muhammad Ali actually was
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: because George Foreman, you know, was a monster and they
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: were his legs are bigger than George Foreman's and we
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 1: know where the power is, right.
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 2: Well, George Foreman, what did he weigh when they fought.
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 1: In to eighteen and I think Muhamma Ali was two fourteen?
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: They were like, right, so the actual who knew who
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 1: was heavier? Right? But I'm just saying it's interesting because
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 1: you gotta you got a guy the same size as
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 1: Foreman moving faster.
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he didn't in that fight, and that fight
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: he mostly laid on the ropes, remember, I mean.
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm seeing a lot of that.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 2: He's still a big twenty two twelve to two twenty
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: pretty close.
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen it different.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: I've seen it wasn't the same guy. If you if
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 2: George Foreman of that time fought Cleveland, the Muhammad Ali
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: the fuck Cleveland big Cat Williams, is a completely different fight.
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 2: Foreman's getting pieced up, Yeah, getting pieced up from the outside,
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 2: and Ali was just picking him apart and moving and
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 2: foremants swinging it there. He was like nobody else before him. Man,
• 2:30:43
  Speaker 2: it was he was so different. He was so different.
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 2: But those three years when he had to take three
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: years and he didn't train at all, and then he
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: came back and now he's thirty and you know, no
• 2:30:53
  Speaker 2: strength and conditioning for three years, no running, no boxing.
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: His body looked different. Who did he fight when he
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 2: came back? He fought uh Lyle No, that that white dude,
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: that horrible brain damage to Cob. Jerry Cooney, No, no, no,
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: Jerry Quarry Jerry. Yeah, when you fought Jerry Quar. See
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 2: if you find that fight now, why look at his
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 2: body when you see it. You see his body smooth,
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 2: His footwork doesn't look the same, His timing is off,
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 2: He had a ton of ring rust. He just didn't
• 2:31:27
  Speaker 2: what's that, Jimmy. He just didn't look the same. He
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 2: didn't look the same. And I think that that three
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 2: years they fucked him, man, they fucked him. They fucked him,
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 2: and I mean, look, it made him a cultural hero
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 2: because he wasn't willing to fight in Vietnam and you know,
• 2:31:44
  Speaker 2: a famously Like look at his body. It's different, man,
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 2: He's just not the same guy anymore. He's not moving
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 2: as fast. And Jerry Quarry was just a really tough
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 2: guy who was, you know, famous for being able to
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 2: take a beating, like Ali didn't have the endurance anymore. Like,
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 2: look at him, he's just not the same guy anymore, man, Yeah,
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 2: it was. He was a shadow of what he was before.
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 2: He still went on to win the title, He still
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 2: went on. But I always wonder what he would have
• 2:32:13
  Speaker 2: been if those three years were not stolen from him
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: in his peak, in his prime.
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would have been something else. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 1: you know, it's one interesting thing. Another thing interesting thing
• 2:32:27
  Speaker 1: about Ali is like try to find him throwing a
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 1: body shot, right, not a lot of them. No, he
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 1: almost never did.
• 2:32:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe a jabb or two of the body It's true.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 1: It'd be interesting to count up all the body shots
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 1: throughout his whole career and you might you might get ten.
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 2:32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it is. That's why. I mean,
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 1: that's why when we know people talk about the greatest boxer.
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 1: Of course, he's the one of the greatest human beings,
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 1: greatest Americans ever, Like just man stuff. He put it
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 1: talking about putting himself out there for you know, as
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: far as a servant of the world, there's nobody, I
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 1: don't know, anybody who compares to him.
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 2: Also, the personality when he would go on talk shows
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 2: and he was just so fun.
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 1: Oh so all those things were memorized.
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 2: One of one of my favorite ones was Coward co
• 2:33:22
  Speaker 2: Sel said, you're very truculent champion. He goes whatever truck
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 2: means if it's good on.
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 1: That Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean.
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 2: He was just a different human being.
• 2:33:33
  Speaker 1: He was not scared of anything. Man, there's some stuff
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 1: that some interviews that he's being real controversial, like he
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 1: would he would actually talk ship to people and talk
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 1: about whooping their ass. You know. Just recently, I've seen
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 1: some stuff that I was like, wow, I hadn't seen
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 1: this one. Oh yeah.
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 2: If anybody disrespected him, if anybody, like, if they wouldn't
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 2: call him Muhammad al leave, they were calling him Cash's club,
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 2: he would fuck them up. What's my name, pop? What's
• 2:33:58
  Speaker 2: my name pop?
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah.
• 2:34:00
  Speaker 2: He was a special person and just culturally, like one
• 2:34:05
  Speaker 2: of the most significant figures ever in the history of
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 2: America because at a time where the world was torn,
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 2: like why the fuck are we in Vietnam and this
• 2:34:14
  Speaker 2: one guy says I'm not doing this. Yeah, and then
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 2: they're like, okay, we're going to strip your tide away
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 2: from you. And then for three years he was persecuted
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 2: and the whole world was watching, and they eventually let
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 2: him fight again. Yeah, but by then we had realized
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 2: that Vietnam was not a just war and this guy,
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 2: they had taken three years of his life away from
• 2:34:33
  Speaker 2: him because he wasn't willing to participate.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, what a hero.
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 2: Man, A real hero, a real hero, and like again,
• 2:34:39
  Speaker 2: a cultural icon. Like just a different kind of human
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 2: being that inspired so many people outside of fighting. My
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 2: parents were hippies, and my parents wanted to watch the
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 2: Leon Spinks rematch when he fought Leon Spinx. Like everybody's
• 2:34:54
  Speaker 2: sitting around and I'm like, I remember being a little kid, going,
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 2: I can't believe they want to watch this fight. This
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 2: is so weird to me, Like they want to watch
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 2: a fight because that's who Muhammad Ali was. He was
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 2: just different. He meant something to America in a way
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 2: that no other fighter before or since has.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man's just so many man just even for equal
• 2:35:16
  Speaker 1: rights and just for average Yeah, so much. I really
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 1: can't think of many people that's been more significant.
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 2: People think me, and people think about like, what do
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 2: you stand for? What do you? I mean, this guy
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 2: he could have easily just taken some stupid fucking desk
• 2:35:34
  Speaker 2: job with the army or something, and.
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 1: You know, easily, Yeah, I mean. I did a movie
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: last year in Louisville, Kentucky, and while I was there,
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: I went and visited Muhammad Ali's gravesite, and dude, man,
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect an I just let me see it,
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 1: and dude, I couldn't talk for two hours afterwards, I
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 1: just sat in my car and just just all just
• 2:35:55
  Speaker 1: got overwhelmed just to think what this man really meant. Yeah,
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 1: it was just like it jacked me up. I didn't
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect that.
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't think of another fighter that meant more
• 2:36:06
  Speaker 2: like in terms of like a cultural icon, I can't
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 2: think of another.
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and put his life on the line and just
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 1: was so you know.
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 2: And us a cautionary tale to fighters too about the
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 2: end about fighting too long. Look, no one ever forgave
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 2: Larry Holmes for beating him up. Larry Holmes, one of
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 2: the greatest hypaweight champions of all time, never got his
• 2:36:24
  Speaker 2: just due because people never forgave him for beating up Ali.
• 2:36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, that's just crazy. Yeah, and it's not fair.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 2: Didn't make any sense. I mean, Muhammad Ali was trying
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 2: to beat him up, but you know, everybody knew even
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 2: though Ali was fighting, everybody knew it was over. He
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 2: wasn't the Mohammada Muhammad Ali of old.
• 2:36:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he he wanted to call it into the
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 1: fight man like. Holmes was like, why am I doing
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 1: this right? Yeah? Yeah, that was sad. Yeah, and he
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't Holmes were never that much of a likable presence.
• 2:36:56
  Speaker 1: And it's hard to come behind Muhammad Ali.
• 2:36:59
  Speaker 2: Right, he was never that kind of a person.
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, damn did he have a job. Who that's the
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 1: best job around.
• 2:37:06
  Speaker 2: Even when he fought Tyson, when he was popping them
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: with that jab and made you wonder, God, I wonder
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 2: what Larry would have done in his prime. This would
• 2:37:13
  Speaker 2: have been an exciting fight to see in his prime,
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 2: the two of them.
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:37:16
  Speaker 2: I still don't think he would have been able to
• 2:37:17
  Speaker 2: beat prime Tyson. No, but it was wild.
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 1: Tyson made his bones on fighting bigger guys and making
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 1: him miss and pay for it. Yeah. So he loaded
• 2:37:27
  Speaker 1: up on you know that on his legs and a
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 1: lot of times when he's landing, he's in the air.
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, in the air.
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 2:37:34
  Speaker 2: It was the speed to middleweight speed in a heavyweight body.
• 2:37:37
  Speaker 1: He's the fastest. Well, he was one of the fastest heavyweights.
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 1: I think. Who.
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 2: There's one guy, Sis pretty damn fast?
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 1: Oh Sis nice? Yeah? Oh man, what I talk about
• 2:37:48
  Speaker 1: a person? He's funny. That's a funny dude.
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 2: Oh he's a character. Yeah yeah, And want to talk
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 2: about technique too. And another guy was trained by the
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 2: same guy as Lumachenko. Lomachenko's father trained Dusk, which is
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 2: also why he's like a heavyweight USIC heavyweight. Yeah, he's
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 2: got that footwork and movement and that Russian style, you know,
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 2: Ukrainian Russian styles. Like those guys, they figured out movement
• 2:38:11
  Speaker 2: and footwork. Beval has it, you know. Yeah, Yeah, it's
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 2: a you know, we're very fortunate that we could see
• 2:38:19
  Speaker 2: all of these incredible human beings that have you know,
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 2: risked their life and their health and put it on
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 2: the line so we could see true lessons about character
• 2:38:27
  Speaker 2: and technique.
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just wish heavyweights would contraint on technique a
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 1: little bit more, right.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, well, maybe Usk's changing people's perspective on that.
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're realizing, like, wow, you can't just one too everybody.
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what happened. There's another thing in this country.
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 1: It's like people, I think they're not following boxing, they're
• 2:38:46
  Speaker 1: not getting in the boxing, and a lot of these
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 1: guys are going for the money and they'll try to
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 1: play play football or whatever.
• 2:38:55
  Speaker 2: Since Deontay, we haven't really had a heavyweight boxing champion
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 2: in America. Deontay was our last heavyweight boxing champion.
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and talk about technique is not the best.
• 2:39:07
  Speaker 2: But you know he had what Teddy Atlas likes to
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: call the eraser, right. Yeah, true, he can make all
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 2: the mistakes in the world. He had that one eraseram Yeah.
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 2: Deonta's was the craziest knockout punchers that's ever existed.
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 2: It was nuts. He just he hit you moving backwards.
• 2:39:23
  Speaker 1: Flat line, but way like twelve two oh.
• 2:39:26
  Speaker 2: Nine when he fought Tyson Fury the first time. Nine.
• 2:39:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he and I went shooting before, like we've we've
• 2:39:34
  Speaker 1: done some tactical stuff together.
• 2:39:38
  Speaker 2: Really nice guy. Yeah, I love talking to him on
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 2: the podcast.
• 2:39:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's he's great. That's I don't know, like
• 2:39:47
  Speaker 1: just work on his technique, like geez.
• 2:39:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 1: Man's too late living.
• 2:39:54
  Speaker 2: I think he relied on that gift for so long
• 2:39:58
  Speaker 2: because I mean, look at the gift though. I mean,
• 2:40:00
  Speaker 2: at one point in time he was like thirty nine
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 2: knockouts of forty fights.
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like he's I know, nuts, but it didn't
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 2: matter when it landed. Let it landed. You couldn't do
• 2:40:16
  Speaker 2: shit about all that sloppiness.
• 2:40:18
  Speaker 1: I still wouldn't mind seeing a versus him, I still
• 2:40:21
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be interesting.
• 2:40:23
  Speaker 2: I think after the car accident, AJ might be done though,
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 2: because he was oh who was knocked unconscious in the
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 2: car accident. I heard really bad. I heard he was
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 2: out for like ten minutes. Really yeah, and his two
• 2:40:34
  Speaker 2: friends died, you know what I mean, And after all
• 2:40:37
  Speaker 2: his fights and you know, you know that is the
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 2: last thing he needed is some extracurricular brain damage like that,
• 2:40:45
  Speaker 2: and then also losing his two great friends like that.
• 2:40:48
  Speaker 2: It's gotta be you know, that's just fucking crazy.
• 2:40:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a sad thing. But I think, yeah, if
• 2:40:57
  Speaker 1: he's my brother and my cousin, I'd be like, you
• 2:40:59
  Speaker 1: gotta go through this. You can't let you know, you
• 2:41:01
  Speaker 1: gotta for their sake. Yeah, what would your friends want
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 1: you to do? Well?
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 2: You know we'll see.
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I opened the best when he's another one
• 2:41:11
  Speaker 1: of our warriors, man puts his body and you know,
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 1: life on the line. Yeah for us, man, it's like that.
• 2:41:18
  Speaker 1: That's that's how I'm modern day gladiator.
• 2:41:20
  Speaker 2: You know, I know, there's nothing like a fight. It's
• 2:41:22
  Speaker 2: different than any of any kind of sporting of man.
• 2:41:25
  Speaker 2: It's very different, and the losses are way different. They're
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 2: way harder to deal with and the victors are way greater. Yeah.
• 2:41:32
  Speaker 1: You know, one of my best friends being Frankie man Like,
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 1: so I got a front seat to all of that.
• 2:41:37
  Speaker 1: You know, Frankie knocked out Roy Jones back in the
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 1: Amateurs and you know, I wanted to see him get
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 1: his due. He was WB a super middleweight champ for
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 1: five years straight. But I you know it, it's a
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 1: front seat to the boxing life and the fighting life
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 1: and hard world. Yeah it is.
• 2:41:57
  Speaker 2: It's the hard world in the end is not pretty,
• 2:42:00
  Speaker 2: and there's no one there for you in the end
• 2:42:02
  Speaker 2: of lie. I was watching this piece on Bobby Chacone,
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 2: who's a great fighter in the eighties, and oh my god,
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 2: in the end it was horrible. It's just horrible watching
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 2: just the deterioration and the brain damage and no one
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 2: there for you. And that's a lot of guys.
• 2:42:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And if you I mean your brain, you
• 2:42:22
  Speaker 1: don't it doesn't regenerate and didn't know it.
• 2:42:24
  Speaker 2: Only gets worse. Yeah, And if you're if you're experiencing
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 2: brain damage now, I mean without treatment. There's some treatments
• 2:42:31
  Speaker 2: now that they're they're able to use to help regenerate
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 2: some neural tissue and yeah, but there's a certain amount
• 2:42:39
  Speaker 2: you never come back from.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I know my son, one of my one
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 1: of my sons is I mean, he's he's been going
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 1: to forget what do they call it. This is like
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 1: a stimulation thing and the magnetic stuff. Yeah, it's man,
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 1: I forget. But he's actually it's actually helped him out
• 2:42:57
  Speaker 1: of a great deal. I mean he he kind of
• 2:43:00
  Speaker 1: went uh uh kind of an interesting route, like they
• 2:43:05
  Speaker 1: kind of experimented with some stuff before, but now he's
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 1: kind of come back. He's turned him around.
• 2:43:12
  Speaker 2: What happened.
• 2:43:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of was like, uh, you're getting high
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 1: doing kind of went that route for a minute, but
• 2:43:19
  Speaker 1: it's uh, but he's gotten I've just actually seeing things
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 1: turn around with this. I don't know why. I can't remember,
• 2:43:27
  Speaker 1: but it's this brain stimulation thing and it kind of
• 2:43:32
  Speaker 1: rewires you.
• 2:43:33
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 1: You know, I think I heard you talk about the
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: you know, ney D and those type of things. Yeah.
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, there's there's things that are going there, things.
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 2: That can help, but yeah, you've got to be very
• 2:43:48
  Speaker 2: vigilant about it.
• 2:43:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So I'm I've been connected to a
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 1: lot of the anti aging type of stuff. You know,
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 1: we're getting fascinated. Yes, it's fascinating. A good friend of mine, Bob,
• 2:44:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know doctor Bob Goldman is Yeah,
• 2:44:07
  Speaker 1: you have money show. He's an interesting he runs a
• 2:44:10
  Speaker 1: four M and I don't know if you ever heard.
• 2:44:12
  Speaker 1: It's this conglomerate of doctors are all around the world
• 2:44:15
  Speaker 1: that's dedicated to fixing causes of diseases, not just chasing
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 1: around the symptoms and stuff. And so it's like very
• 2:44:27
  Speaker 1: much in the face of the pharmaceutical companies. They are
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 1: really dedicated to like taking care of things from the source.
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 1: And it's been going on for a while. Man, it's
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 1: like they have like about six of these things a year.
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 1: One of the biggest ones in Vegas. But like you
• 2:44:47
  Speaker 1: look it up a four M sevest salone, arnosd. Swarzenegger.
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 1: He's been dealing with them. They I've actually tried to
• 2:45:00
  Speaker 1: I've hooked Nick Diaz up with him to help him because, uh,
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 1: you know, they're on the forefront of the new medicine
• 2:45:08
  Speaker 1: type stuff. So yeah, he's it's a it's an interesting
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 1: thing a for him. Have a lot a lot of
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 1: doctors who will be given lectures on all the most
• 2:45:20
  Speaker 1: innovative stuff, and they have all the newest equipment. That's
• 2:45:25
  Speaker 1: just like just the biggest kind of I don't know,
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 1: like rooms, huge rooms full of all the most.
• 2:45:35
  Speaker 2: Collabor Yeah, it's a good time to be an older person.
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of science.
• 2:45:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, they have the belief that you should be
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 1: in your you know, living to one hundred but healthily. Yeah,
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 1: they really believe that.
• 2:45:47
  Speaker 2: And I you know, if it's ever been possible, now's
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah you should. My
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 1: my doctor, doctor Alavisos, doctor sixty three, looks like a
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 1: freaking superhero. That's awesome.
• 2:46:02
  Speaker 2: Yeahc three year old guys. When we were kids, we're
• 2:46:05
  Speaker 2: basically dead. Yeah, they were just old men, frail feeble.
• 2:46:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. Man, it's like and yeah, we're getting older,
• 2:46:13
  Speaker 1: but knock would man. I have been very fortunately've been
• 2:46:17
  Speaker 1: very lucky.
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. This is a good time to be
• 2:46:20
  Speaker 2: an older person.
• 2:46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, you look good, man. Yeah, yeah, we're I
• 2:46:25
  Speaker 1: think I'm a little older than you.
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 2: Though told you. Yeah I'm fifty eight.
• 2:46:29
  Speaker 1: Oh well yeah I'm a little older than you.
• 2:46:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well you look great. You look great.
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 1: Then if you're older than me, I feel I feel good. Yeah,
• 2:46:36
  Speaker 1: I feel very good.
• 2:46:37
  Speaker 2: It's a really good well there's so much information now
• 2:46:40
  Speaker 2: on how to maintain your body and how to maintain
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 2: your health.
• 2:46:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, older, yeah, yeah, you know.
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 2: Hey, brother, it's been great. I'm glad we got together.
• 2:46:48
  Speaker 1: I mean to me too. Man again, man, I gotta
• 2:46:51
  Speaker 1: tell you man how proud I am. Joe from the
• 2:46:54
  Speaker 1: gym is doing his thing man in a big way.
• 2:46:58
  Speaker 1: About you. Yeank you well, thank you man. It's a
• 2:47:00
  Speaker 1: lot of fun.
• 2:47:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll do it again sometimes we got alright, alright, alright,
• 2:47:05
  Speaker 2: Fire Pleasures