Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / The Strange History of 90s Screamo Band: Four Hundred Years

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The Strange History of 90s Screamo Band: Four Hundred Years · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Today we've got Darren from 400 years.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: If one is not, if you're.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: A listener and you are not familiar.
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: With 400 years, You owe a lot.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: If you're into punk, if you're into emo, if you're
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: into screamo, any of the stuff that we typically cover,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: you owe a lot to 400 Years, even if you
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: don't know it. 400 Years, you guys are one of
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: those legendary bands that I think probably largely due to
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: the fact that you guys weren't around for super long,
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: maybe five years tops, that just kind of made it
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: where a lot of people might have kind of missed
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: you guys. But so, so important kind of in that emo, screamo,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: post-hardcore scene, whatever you would want. I don't know how
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I would describe your guys' sound. But anyway, very, very
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: legendary band. I just feel like really honored and grateful
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: that you're coming on the podcast to chat more about
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: your guys' history. So we'll dive into all things for
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: 100 years. But before we do that, how are you
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: doing today, Darren?
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I am doing great. Thanks for having me, guys. I'm
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: excited to be talking to you about this time in
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: my life.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I love it. Hey, Darren, I gotta, I gotta say
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: right away that Mason has told me that he essentially
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: wants to look just like a guy like you when he,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: when he gets just a little bit older and I
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: think he's well on his way.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: You guys, I think there's already a lot of, a
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: lot of things going right. So yeah, I feel like
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: that's a big compliment for me.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: So I want to look Like I drive an EV
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: and listen to NPR, uh, when I'm like, you know, 40,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: 50 years old.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: I'll give you all my tips.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying like, like you look like you're a
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: member of a museum, like an art museum.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. I'll take that as a compliment. It's certainly,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I definitely am a member of a couple of different
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: art museums for sure.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: You literally look like it. I'm just saying. There's a,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the guitarist, I forget what his name is. Uh, it's
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: the guitarist, not, not Ben Gibbard, but the guitarist for
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: death cap for cutie. Uh, he just like, he has
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: like the most amazing, like thick head of hair and
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: he's got like cool clear glasses. And I just often
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: think about like, I think he's like 50 now. And
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, if I can look like that in 20 years,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm set. Yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like, yeah. Like you never know how it's
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: going to go in terms of age, you know, like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: are you going to keep your hair? Like, you know,
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: like you're pretty much going to need glasses. That's just
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: like a given. I think after age 50, but yeah, there's,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of ways.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: You got like the stack of books too. Like, are
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: you a professor?
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: What are you? I, you know, I come from a
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: lineage of professors, but I am not one, but we'll see.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Like maybe I can drop some.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Well, you clearly, you clearly picked up their habits of
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: just stacking.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's just a lot of time in academia and yeah.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: And just being in places with stock books is. very
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: comfortable for me so.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I mean lyrically lyrically you kind of come off like
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a professor too i.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Mean that's true thank you both with yeah you know
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: it's nice so i appreciate that yeah it's funny that
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: that's actually something ash from 400 years said to me
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: recently he was like i never realized like you're really
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: good with lyrics and i was like oh yeah thanks
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: i really think about it that way we weren't really
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: like concentrating on it too much you know at the
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: time But yeah, it is nice to reflect back on it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: And I appreciate that. Cool.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Well, speaking of 400 years, let's chat about
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the history of the band. I guess before we even
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: really dive into the real history of the band, I'd
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: love to just hear how you got into music. Yeah,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: what inspired that? Yeah, were you one of those people
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: that just, you know, you were 12 years old, you
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: picked up a guitar and you fell in love? Is
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that the story?
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: You know, the story actually starts with skateboarding. So I
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people and punk might be the case.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: Skateboarding was the first thing, but I loved music actually
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: from the very beginning, even when I was like a
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: very young kid and my parents had whatever classic rock
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: records that were around. And I had my own record
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: player when I was four and I was able to
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: kind of get their records and start listening to records
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: really young. And I always wanted to be in a band.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: So even by age five, I was like gathering up
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: the kids in the, neighborhood to play tennis rackets and
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: pretend like we were the Beatles or the Rolling Stones
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, we would lip sync along with stuff.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: And so I, and it was destiny. I had the
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: bug really early on, but no one in my family
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: was a musician. So I didn't really think I could
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: do it. It didn't feel like an accessible life to me.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: But then I started skateboarding when I was about 11
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: or 12 and the bands that would get played. I
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: grew up in Tucson, Arizona and And we skated a
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: lot of pools and ramps that were just out in
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: the middle of the desert, middle of nowhere, ditches. And,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: you know, we'd have little boom boxes or stereos that
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: we would play cassettes on. And it was like Black
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Flag and Minor Threat and Bad Brains. And, you know, like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: this is just what you listen to when you were skating.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: And that really just made me feel like I could
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: do that. Like that became the music that I really
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: wanted to make. And so, yeah, I picked up a guitar,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: I think bass originally. And I was like, yeah, maybe 14.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and a bunch of my friends did too.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: So we were all just kind of starting bands by
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: that age. And we lived in sort of what would
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: have been, I guess, like Tucson doesn't really have suburbs.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: It's more like sprawl, but we were in like the
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Northwest part of Tucson. So pretty disconnected from the downtown
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: punk scene. Like Tucson had a pretty cool downtown punk scene,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: but It was more like Mohawks and drunk punk stuff.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: And we were gravitating more towards straight edge hardcore. So
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: my friends and I, we had our own little scene
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: that was kind of that Northwest part of Tucson. But
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Tucson was a really interesting town for punk. There were
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of different kinds of bands doing... And I
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: think because it's in the middle of nowhere and not
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: touched by California or East Coast culture, it just had
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: its own ecosystem. And there were some really... important influential
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: bands for both dave and i so dave the other
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: guitar player 400 years and i both grew up in
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: tucson together along with aaron our original bass player but
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: dave and i met at age 12 through skateboarding and
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: yeah we just a lot of those bands in tucson
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: were were very influential on us in those early days
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: but yeah skateboarding was the entry point for sure.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: It along those lines of this, this skateboarding piece to this, uh,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like a question I have for myself and it
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: may be, you feel like you're not, uh, able to
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: answer this, but like skateboarding and punk music or underground
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: music culture was intertwined. They were one in one, uh,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: especially like in the, you know, late eighties, early nineties,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: you know, we, we often hear that like, uh, you know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: especially like somebody that was from around that time, like
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the way they got into music was they were skateboarding
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: and you listen to that music and then you're like, well,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Now I got to start a band like the amount
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: of like skateboarding to bands becoming in a like starting
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: a band overlap is just like it's so it's like
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a Venn diagram of like a circle.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And I'm like and I know that skateboarding was such
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: a massive culture in that time frame that it probably
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: was because it was just so popular. It was very
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: likely that, you know, one was skateboarding and then started
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: a band. I'm curious, like maybe your thoughts, I don't
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: know how like involved you are in skateboarding now, but
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: like it doesn't, I think part of it is like
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: skateboarding is certainly less popular than it was back then,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: like 30, 40 years ago. But I wonder like, it
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem like there's as much of like a direct, uh,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: line of, you know, you like, if there's a skateboarder now,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: it's not like they're almost like guaranteed to start a
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: band like it was back then.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Like, do you have a sense that that's like the
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: case or I'm just curious, like your own thoughts, that
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: kind of direct connection between like being in a band
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: skateboarding and just that kind of like one-to-one kind of pipeline.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think it was sort of about
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: that era of both skateboarding and hardcore music. And I
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: would also throw like hip hop and rap into that.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: I think those were all fairly new art forms. And
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: we did consider skateboarding to be an art form. Like
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: at that time, I mean, you know, I guess it
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: really started in the 70s, but in the 80s when
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Bones Brigade was happening and like people were still inventing
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: what the sport was, like it had not gotten to,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you know, X Games and like it was not a
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: multi-million dollar industry like it is now. And so it
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: was this really like, like people were making up tricks
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: and it was very inventive and very creative. And like
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I said, we were building ramps out in the middle
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: of the desert or making pools into skate areas or,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: you know, it just felt like it was just something
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: that had that DIY culture behind it. And that is
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: also how hardcore music felt and how I think hip
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: hop and rap felt at that time too. So at
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: the time they were all kind of intertwined, which is,
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: really interesting to think about because now they're sort of
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: these very different things, but at the time they were
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: all fairly new. And so it did feel like it
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: was more about that DIY ethos and it connected all
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: of those things because you just, there, there was no
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: industry around any of them. So you just had to
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: build that infrastructure yourself and that's what they had in common. Sure.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: To take it another step further, I think you could
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: also say that it kind of comes down to this
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: idea that it's a little bit edgy and it's a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: little bit, uh, uh, making a statement and they, whether
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: you're talking about, uh, heavy music or extreme music, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: guess is what some people would call it. Uh, along
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: with skateboarding, you know, it was kind of looked down
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: upon by society and the establishment and so on and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: so forth.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Definitely.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you kind of were relegated to certain parts of
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the sport.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was no real like money in it. It
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: wasn't part of corporate culture. It wasn't part of the mainstream.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: And I think for... kids that didn't feel like they
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: belonged in that mainstream culture, but were sort of trapped
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: in suburbia or were just kind of trapped in that world.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: These were incredible escapes and ways to sort of reject
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: that mainstream culture that was really accessible. Like it only
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: took just buying a skateboard and then going out with
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: your friends and building a ramp and you can do it,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you know, or picking up an instrument and starting a
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: band and you could do it. So it was, yeah,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: it was a really, powerful way to kind of reject
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: mainstream culture for kids that I think would not have
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: had those outlets without those, those art forms. Sure.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm like curious, and maybe it's just because like,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not a teenager anymore, but I like wonder like,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: what's the current day teenage version of that? Like a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: few months ago, Cullen and I, we did this whole
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: episode on emo music, especially kind of like 2000s emo.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that we like, we were
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: talking about is just like how emo music was calling.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And I think you were the one that made this point,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: something along the lines of like emo music, especially like
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: when it kind of went more mainstream, if you will, uh,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: in the two thousands, it, it was sort of the
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: last like counterculture youth culture. Like we don't really like,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously there was like the hippie generation and like,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, the eighties kind of had like the seventies
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: and eighties kind of had their own like counterculture of,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: of youth culture. And like, certainly that was the case
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: with the nineties with Nirvana and, and sort of the
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: grunge movement and other kind of movements that were happening
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: at that time. But it's like, what's the current day
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: version of that? Like, you know, I just, I don't know.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I feel like emo, especially when it was in its
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: heyday in the two thousands, it kind of seemed like
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: that was kind of the last vestige of that. Colin,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm like, kind of like paraphrasing
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: your take.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: That's exactly it. I mean, it kind of turns into
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: like this idea that like everyone has an algorithm now
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: and the algorithm feeds you exactly what, it thinks you
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: like and you don't get to break out of, uh,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: that algorithm. And so you're just kind of stuck within
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: this meta, this meta culture, or you're stuck without the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: meta culture. I mean, there's, there's not a shared, uh,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: experience that everyone has anymore, which is sad.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting to think about it
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: in that context because, um, that meta culture in a
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: way was the thing that we were rebelling against with
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: skateboarding and punk and hardcore and even, you know, rap
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: and hip hop at that time. And now it is
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: sort of eliminate, you know, like it's interesting to sort
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: of watch like how, because everything is online, it's all
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: just gotten blended together in this way that it is
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: not really separated, you know, and people kind of experience
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: everything on this, like very equal playing field of just
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: it being, accessible at all times everything you know and
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: i think that's just like a very different way to
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: experience culture and it has sort of blurred all these
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: lines so yeah in a way like we were creating
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: our own counterculture to a metaculture is there still a
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: metaculture to have a counterculture like i don't know that
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: there is like yeah like i'm not sure that there
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: is Yeah. Right.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So if there's like no meta culture, then it
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: doesn't create the conditions for one to want to create
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: a counterculture, which is, uh, yeah, I don't know.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I think there is a, I think there is a counterculture. Uh,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and the counterculture is that a lot of Gen Z
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and even Gen Alpha and stuff like that are already
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: starting to like get rid of their phones. They are,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: they're literally just going out and buying flip phones or
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I guess what they call dumb phones, but they're, they're
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: trying to disconnect from the algorithm and.
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: They're pretty successful with it at times. I think that's
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: the attraction to why people are interested in bands like
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: 400 years now. Yes. You know, like I think there's
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: an attraction to this time period that I find really fascinating,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: but it makes sense to me. You know, this is
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: pre internet, completely analog experience of a scene that was
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: like a micro like subculture. Right. And I think that's
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: fascinating to people that grew up in something that just, that,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: that doesn't exist. So like going back to that very
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: analog experience, I think, you know, the fascination with that,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I think is a version of, of wanting to embrace
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: a counterculture, you know, and they're seeing it through the
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: filter of a world where they've never, they've never been offline.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Like they don't know what that is like. So yeah,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it's really interesting to, to see it and the attraction
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: to it. And it does make sense to me. Yeah.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And like, certainly there is, there are certainly popular Gen
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Z artists. Like I'm not, I'm not trying to say that,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: but what, what is interesting is like some of the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: biggest songs that Gen Z people are listening to right now,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: or some of their, their favorite artists right now are
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: like people from like the nineties, like, like, like kiss
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: me from six pence and then the richer is like
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: now well over a billion like views or plays on Spotify.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And it's like, that was like, that would have never
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: been like, you know, that was obviously a popular song then,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: but like, Who would have ever thought it would have
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: gotten to that like height of popularity or like Maisie
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: stars like getting really popular again. And it's just like
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: there's like all these like, you know, and obviously like
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with like American football and like
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of their fans right now are like Gen
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Z young, young people. And and yeah, I think you're
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: totally right that there's like something about like they see
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: the simplicity and rawness of that music as something that
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: might be a little bit more foreign to like the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: world that they were growing up in. And that's why
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: they're attracted to it. Again, that's not to say that
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: they don't have their own. Like there's actually really incredible
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Gen Z alternative bands I listen to all the time.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So they definitely have that. But it is interesting that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: it's like the 90s were like the sense that I've
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: gotten from a lot of like Gen Z people and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: maybe even younger, maybe like older Gen Alpha people now.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: is there's something about the 90s culture that because it's
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: so foreign to them, they're really attracted to. That's why
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: they're literally wearing all the shit that was from.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: The 90s now.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: That's the look, that's the style, that's the music. And
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: obviously things get recycled music-wise and all of that. We've
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: seen that before. But yeah, I think a lot of
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: that is due to the fact that it's a world
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that they maybe even aspire towards. A sort of less
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: internet-connected world.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think to that point, to Cullen's point, it's
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: like part of the unplugging is like, what were the
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: cultures that existed before we were plugged in in that way?
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And they existed and they had a whole thing to them, right?
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, I think there is a fascination with it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And you're right, there's amazing Gen Z artists. And it's like,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I have two teenage daughters. So I know a little
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: bit about how this generation experiences music. And they're both
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: very into music. And... everything like they don't see old
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: music as being any less relevant than new music. You know,
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: like for us, it was like such a rejection of
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: the baby boomers, sixties rock, you know, and like we
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: had our own thing and it's like something like Mazzy
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: star or my bloody Valentine or the pixies can be
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: just as relevant as Olivia Rodrigo and, you know, turnstile
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: and like whatever's new, you know? So I think for them,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: it's like, All of that stuff sort of has equal footing.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: But I do think there's a fascination with things that,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: that existed in the nineties before the internet connected everything,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: you know? So I think, yeah.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about 400 years. So I know you mentioned,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously you you're skating, you're picking up a
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: guitar and then eventually, you know, you're hanging out with
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: some friends and then you start 400 years. Um, yeah.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: What were some of those early years? Like, I don't
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: know how you want to go from there. I know
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: that's a very general question, but yeah. What were those
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: early years, uh, like, uh, for 400 years?
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Well, I, I had a really, uh, you know, so
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: I was, I was pretty upset, obsessed with, with, uh,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Fugazi and minor threat, like as being kind of my
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: favorites from that era. And I had the opportunity when
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: I was 16, I got, over my winter break, I
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: got flown out to see some family members that lived
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: in DC when I was 16 years old. And I
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: went to the discord house, which was like, I thought
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: was the address on the back of all the discord records.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: So I just went to that address, which is actually
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Ian's parents house. And it was like right after Christmas.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Why would they do that? That's crazy.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Cause I think it was the original place where it started,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: but Yeah, he no longer lived there, but like Beecher
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Street was on the back of all the records and
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: that was his parents' house in Georgetown. So I knocked
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: on the door and Alec McKay answered the door and
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: I was like, hey, I'm from Tucson. I really want
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: to meet Ian and interview him for this fanzine that
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: my friend has back in Tucson. And he was like, yeah,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: let's call him. So like went into Ian's parents' kitchen
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: and we called Ian on the phone and he was like,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: where are you staying? How long are you going to
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: be here? Took down my number of where I was staying,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: pre-cell phones. And then he called me a day later
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and he was like, I've got some time, you know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: got maybe like an hour. Went and I sat with
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: him and interviewed him for four hours. He sat with
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: me for four hours, a 16 year old kid. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: just like every question I had about how all of
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: it worked and, you know, the whole thing. And he
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: was just so patient. and so awesome. And that conversation
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: literally changed the course of my life. Like then I
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, I can do this. This is something
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I could just do with my life. And I really
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: believe that after speaking to Ian. So, and the biggest
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: thing that he said was literally like, if you want
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: to do this, just do it. No one is going
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: to come do it for you. If you want to
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: put music out, start a record label. If you want
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: to book a tour, book the tour. Don't wait for
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: somebody to come and discover you because you're not in
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: the music industry. That's not going to happen. We are
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: our own music industry. And so I went back and
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: immediately started a record label. And I started putting out
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: records from my band and my friends' bands. And one
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: of those bands was Dave, who ended up in 400 Years,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: was in a band called Groundwork. which was like a
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: straight edge hardcore band from Tucson that ended up getting
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: pretty well known. So Groundwork kind of made out of Tucson.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: They were playing shows in Southern California with bands like
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Thrice and, you know, kind of in that Southern California
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: straight edge scene a little bit. And they did, they
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: ended up doing a full US tour in like maybe
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: 93 or something. And they, they, they got pretty well
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: known in that like evolution, evolution kind of scene and
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: played shows with policy of three. And so, So they
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: had some reach. And then when that band fell apart,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Dave had been playing drums in a band I was
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: in at that time, which was called Soulfish, which is
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: a little more DC hardcore sounding, I guess. And we
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: decided to start a new band together where I would
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: play guitar and he would play guitar. And that was
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the beginning of 400 years. And we asked Erin, who
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: was a friend of my brother's, she was a little
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: bit younger than us, if she would play bass. And
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: she had never played bass before, but we just were like,
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: come play bass. And so we started in Tucson in,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I guess, 95. And we had just like a drummer
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: in Tucson for a little while, but we had been
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: to Richmond. Soulfish had done like a nine week tour
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: of the U S that we booked through maximum rock
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: and roll is book your own fucking life. And like
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: got stuck in Richmond, Virginia. We broke down in Richmond,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Virginia for a week. And we were staying with a
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: veil at the avail house and like had to have
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: our carburetor rebuilt. And we loved Richmond. We were like,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: this is the most punk rock place we've ever been.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: So we decided that we were going to move out
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: of Tucson because it was in the middle of nowhere.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: We were either going to go to Seattle where we
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: knew some people or we were going to go to Richmond, Virginia.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: And Richmond, Virginia won out. And so winter of 1996,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: we loaded up a van and drove across the country
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: in the middle of a blizzard and moved to Richmond, Virginia.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And that was like the beginning of 400 years of
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: I think as people know it was after we got there.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to imagine like parents of children where
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you're like, what, you know, like, like you're talking to
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: your kid and you're like, what do you dream for
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: in the world? Like, what, what is it that you
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: want to do? And like your kid goes, I want
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: to move to Richmond.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. To play in a hard, I.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Just like, I can't imagine like parents were like exactly like, wow.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Am I like, and I obviously, I'm sure your parents like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: we're all like proud and everything, but like, there's gotta
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: be a part of it. It's like, wow, Richmond, that's,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: that's the big aspiration. That's, that's like the big, I.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Did mention that none of my, none of my family
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: plays music. Right. So they thought this was the most
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: insane idea that anyone has ever had.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Like, I just want to be an hour and a
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: half from our nation's Capitol. That's all.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I just want to be an hour and
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a half from our nation's Capitol. And, and, and like,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: you know, the middle of what they thought was like
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: the capital of the Confederacy, you know, I'm going to
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: play in a hardcore band. Yeah. And yeah, that's what
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I'm doing with my life. No college for me, thanks. Sure. Yeah,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: my academic and lawyer family did not understand that.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Understandable.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Which was part of the appeal.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: You talked about some of those influences back in Tucson.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And obviously with, what was it, Soulfish?
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Is that it? Yeah, Soulfish.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: By the way, it sounds like a ska band name.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: More than it does a hardcore band name.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: It's a really bad band name. It's like terrible, actually.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's good that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: 400 years is.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm curious because I feel like 400 years has a
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: lot more crossbreeding of genre and where you guys go
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: with every single tune is not really the norm for hardcore.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: It's not really the norm for punk. It's not really
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the norm for Post-hardcore or any of the music that
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: is kind of like any of the genres that are
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: labeled for 400 years. Why do you think it is
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: that you guys were so willing to kind of pull
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: from like all these different tapestries of music?
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I do think it had a little
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: bit to do with coming from Tucson where we were
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: so isolated from every other scene. So we were not,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, we got records obviously from Southern California straight
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: edge or New York straight edge or DC or, you know, yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Like all the records kind of made it to us,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: but the bands around us were like really weird and
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: really diverse. There was this one band in particular called
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Malignus Youth who are just like the most positive guys
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: in They were from Sierra Vista, which is like this
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: little military town, you know, outside of Tucson. And they
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: were so positive and just like loving and just inclusive
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: to everybody. But they played like really fast, melodic, like punk,
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: hardcore music. And it was like nothing that I, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: they sang harmonies, like constantly harmonizing. And they were awesome.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And they were a really big influence on me and Dave.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: but there was nothing else that really sounded like them,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: you know? So I think we were used to bands
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: that were just kind of weird and a little bit
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: out there. And then of course, Groundwork, you know, had
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: this straight edge hardcore thing. They were also, they were
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: great and they were very much unique to themselves as well.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: But I think with 400 years, we were pulling from
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: some of the Groundwork thing because Dave had been in
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Groundwork and, you know, was kind of known from that
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: and just had a guitar style based around that. But I,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you know, I also, um, really liked melodic things. And
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: so did he. And I think we just naturally started
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: blending a lot of these things together, which were just
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: different influences on us that created something that was sort
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: of unique. Like we didn't plan on it that way.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: It just ended up being that way. But I think
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: some of it had to do with just being from
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: an area that was very isolated from the rest of
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the country. Sure.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: It does sound so much like you and like, that is,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, the most difficult thing for a band
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to do. And so I think that's why Mason and
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I gravitate towards you guys so much, because we get
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: really tired of the rinse and repeat kind of process
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: that tends to happen in all these scenes. And I
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: think that's maybe why people are willing to revisit 400 years,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: even people who weren't alive for 10, 15 years after,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: you know, your last record came out, right?
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah. It's been a while. Yeah. I mean, thank you.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, it's been cool to like revisit
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: the making of this music. And I've been able to
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: talk to Dave and to Ash and to Aaron about
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: what it was like for us when we were writing
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: these songs and what we were doing and, you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: so much of it was just about the creative energy
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: of us being in a room together. Like Dave said
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: this thing that no matter what, he wanted it to
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: feel like it was live music. Like we, even if
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: we weren't playing from an audience, we wanted it to
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: feel like it was live and that's how the recordings
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: were approached. And that's how the writing was approached. And,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: you know, just the energy of being a live band
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: was very important to us. And so, the things that
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: came out were about, I think really just trying to
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: connect with that energy. And we were listening to a
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: lot of different kinds of things that just ended up
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: getting pulled in in ways that we weren't thinking about
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: trying to be accessible. We were just thinking about expressing ourselves.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: And so it's cool. Like it's cool that it worked
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: in this like weird chemistry way that it worked for
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: the four of us. And it's cool that it resonated
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: with people, but it had a feeling to it. Like,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: we knew pretty early on that there was some kind
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: of magic in it. You know, once we got to Virginia,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: we got Ash on drums. It was like, something's working.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: And I've been in a lot of bands. I played
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of music and that feeling is not always there.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: That just like extra thing. But 400 years, I can
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: say honestly had that from the beginning, just something clicked
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: with the four of us. But yeah, it was not,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: I think Dave said this when I was talking to
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: him about the making of Transmit Failure that like, we
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: were not trying to write a hook, you know, we
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: weren't trying to pull people in with our music. We,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: we really just wanted to express what was inside of us.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: And yet there are some parts that are like very hooky.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: It is interesting, you know, to be like not going
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: for that. And then it's still sort of coming through
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: in some weird way. Yeah.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think like, I think a lot of like,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: especially early like emo music kind of has that vibe
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: where it's like, you know, you get this like guitar
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: hook that it's like, in any sort of mainstream context,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: it probably doesn't make sense. But, like, it is just addictive. Like, obviously, like,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: the never meant guitar hook, there's no way that that's
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: ever going to be, like, a mainstream, you know, like, song.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: but like it is addictive. Like it, like if you
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: hear that, like immediately, if you hear that never meant
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: guitar hook, it's just like, it's going to be in
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: your head forever.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And, and like, I think there's a lot of like
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: really cool stuff that came out of like that guy,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: like your guys have seen, especially in kind of the
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: most more post hardcore kind of world where it's just like,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: there are some like, uh, yeah, whether it's like a guitar, uh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: like a guitar solo or a guitar hook, or like
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: some sort of drum or even like just like a
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: vocal melody, something where it's just like, it is distinctly
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: that like kind of specific kind of underground hardcore or
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: post hardcore scene that we'll never make it mainstream, but
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it's like distinctly like you're going to remember this.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And, and, you know, and it goes back to
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: skateboarding in a way, like in a way when we
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: were skateboarding, we were just making up what we were
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: doing in real time. Like, let's see if we can
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: just do this thing. We did a lot of that
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: playing music too. Like we don't, want to play guitar
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: the normal way that it's played like what can we
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: do with this to do something different that hasn't been
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: done like we would intentionally try to push what we
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: were capable of doing but also like what the instrument
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: would do in order to try to do something that
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: felt new like that was important to us we wanted
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: to like break new ground so some of those like
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: things that were intentionally just maybe trying to push the
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: boundary of like what was possible ended up being i
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: think some of the things that are hooky for people
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: and you would realize it when you played it live,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: you know, like it would connect like a moment in
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: certain songs would just connect with people and you'd be like, Whoa,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: I wasn't expecting that. But you know, people singing along
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: with something or just the way they would react to
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: a riff or a little thing that you did, you'd
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: realize you'd stumbled across something. But yeah, I mean, it was,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: it was in a way like trying to invent something
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit new at the time.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: A question that I have, especially for bands that had
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: maybe more, more or less kind of more like overt
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: political themes, which certainly you guys had in your guys's music, um,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: in the same way that like, I would imagine like
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: when you listen back to 400 years, I'm sure there's
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: like a guitar part where you're like, I like that,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: but I probably would do a little differently now. Uh,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm curious, like even like, like when it, when
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: it comes to lyrics, um, right? Like there, there's something
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: about like the, the teenage angst of it, the way
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that you write about it from that perspective of, you know,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: in the fact that you were like 18, 19, 20
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: years old, however old you were at that time, you
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: like probably wrote about something like really important, but in
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: a way that like, maybe you look back now and
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: you're like, I probably say it a little differently now.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, like, is, is that like something that you
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: have like noticed within yourself when you look back at
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: even like the lyrics of 400 years where you're like,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I maybe more or less agree with these political things,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: but I would say it maybe differently now. I'm curious
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: what that would be like for you, if that is
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: the case.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's some things lyrically that I would
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: definitely say differently now, and yet I feel like what
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: it was for the music, revisiting it, I'm like, this
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: is perfect for this. Who I was at that time,
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: that message I wanted to get across is probably a
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: different way to say it. but it feels really genuine
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: to what the experience was at the time. And so, yeah,
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: there's nothing like nothing that makes me cringe, you know, like,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: or like, I think it's like, and one of the
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: things that's interesting, again, revisiting this period about 400 years
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: is I think we were a little unique in the
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: sense that, you know, we bridged this very personal internal
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: kind of landscape of, emo, I guess, you know, about
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: what was going on with us in our relationships and
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: what we were feeling with things that were overtly political. Um,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: and not that many bands in our ecosystem were doing
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: both of those things. There were some, but not a lot.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: And yeah, when I, when I kind of look back
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: on them now, I mean, a, I'm like, I can't
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: believe I sang like that. Like, that's cool. Like that
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I could do that because I don't think I could anymore.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Um, and then, um, Yeah. I mean,
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: it's a different way from the way I've been making
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: music or singing now for a number of years. So
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: it's like, it's like an old muscle that I'm like, well,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: like when I heard these remixes, especially like, wow, sounds cool.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: You know? And the lyrics, like the lyrics, I love that,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: that balance that we have. And a lot of times
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: it was a conversation between Dave and I that we
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: didn't even totally know we were having because we we
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: would write the music first and then we would just
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: start singing stuff and not necessarily knowing where it was
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: going or what the other person was singing. And it
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: would work. Like it's just started working together in this
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: way that was very not conscious on our part. And
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: that's like very interesting to listen to now and realize
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: that that's what was going on.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: You know, when you said that there was like something
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: special about 400 years that like, especially once you guys
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: moved to Virginia, And you said something, I forget what
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: you said, but like there was something that you were
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: like tapping into that just felt like unique. Like you
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: don't get this experience very often. Do you think that's
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: part of it? Like that like dynamic of like being
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: able to like do this sort of vocal thing with
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: another band member that, again, probably doesn't exactly happen across
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: every single band that you probably have ever been a
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: part of?
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely not. Yeah. I mean, I think it has
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: something to do with like Dave and I knowing each
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: other since we were 12. you know, and just like
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: that connection being so deep on so many different levels
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: and having gone through a lot of stuff together. But
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: we also are very different people. So to me, it's
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: like pretty amazing that we could have this conversation through
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: music that we weren't actually having consciously with each other
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of the time. And yeah, I think that
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: that is pretty unique to this particular band for me,
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: you know, having been a part of other things now. Like,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever experienced that with another, I've
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: never been in a band where there was another singer
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: like that either, you know? Right. So yeah.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I feel that way about this podcast. Like Colin
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and I have been best friends for 17 years and
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: it's like hard to imagine like doing this thing with
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: like anyone else because like, we've, we've known, we've got
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: so much shared history with each other that it's kind of,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: we just kind of know how to like make this
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: thing work. And I think because of that shared history,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: it kind of makes it, I, at least, I mean,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: it's not like we have a lot of listeners, but
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it does make it feel pretty special and unique because
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: of the fact that we've got that. And it's really
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: cool when you see that in other bands, too. There's
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: this shared connection, this shared history that allows a band
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: to really make its mark uniquely because of that shared
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: history with each other.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's chemistry. You guys clearly have chemistry, and
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: that's a real thing. And Ash and Aaron were also
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: a big part of that. you know, like Ash and
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: Dave had their own connection. And then when Aaron came in,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: like she and I had a thing and she and
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Dave had a thing and the, the parts, the chemistry
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: of all the parts, like if you pull apart 400
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: years songs and you listen to the individual parts, they're,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: they're crazy. They're like, they don't make sense. They only
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: make sense together. Like you can't, like if you try
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: to sit down and play a, like a guitar part
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: from a 400 year song, just like one part, it
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: is not going to make sense without the other pieces. It's, it's, uh,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: I've tried.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Structurally abstract, right? Is what you're saying?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: It's like, it is, it required, like there's a chemistry
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: and an alchemy of the parts that is unique to that.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: I think something else, an art museum that you remember.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's what it does sound like. You know,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I think something else that makes you unique is that, uh,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: you know, if, if people heard what Mason and I
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: were talking about between ages of 18 and 25, they
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: would cringe a lot.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: And, uh, And I'm really glad that the, like the
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: internet doesn't have access to any of that.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: For real.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just very jealous that, that, that you were able
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to write like that at that age. It makes me
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: feel like I was a, a, a pre-mortial human and, uh, and,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and post-mortial.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, honestly, there was just 10, like, it's
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: the same thing. There was just 10,000 hours before that
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: of like, you know, Dave and I playing in soul
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: fish or playing in, he was in suspended animation and
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: you know, like before groundwork and like, none of that
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: was great. It was all just like us figuring it out.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: But like that, the chemistry was built in that stuff,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: you know? So all of that is foundational. It's all
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: very important to, to how it gets built. But yeah.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: So I do want to, Oh, go ahead.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: What was, what was, let me restart. What would you
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: say is the reason that you'd guys decided that now
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: was the time to look back at transmit and everything
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: like that?
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: It just kind of came to us, you know, there
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: was just renewed interest. And within the period of three
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: or four months, I like, I got hit up by
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: four different labels that wanted to reissue 400 years record,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: you know, there's nothing for years, obviously.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: And then, yeah, like suddenly there was this interest happening
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: to coincide with for me with a period of time
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: where I was actually writing new material that felt connected
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: somehow to that period of time and i had asked
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: ash if he would play drums on some of these
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: demos that i was working on so when the 400
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: years thing came i was like whoa this is weird
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: like i'm already feeling like connected to this and then
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: this opportunity came but yeah, we weren't seeking to do it.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: We were just getting approached. And it felt like it
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: just was a moment where there was enough interest that
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: people wanted to explore these records. And so, yeah, you know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: to me, it felt like the right time to do it.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: And the fact that there was this other kind of
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: new thing going on that felt already connected to it
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: just felt too And I was like, OK, well, what
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: can we make with all of this? Like, what can
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: we create?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I think that the attention that that a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: lot of these bands that were extremely high quality, the
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: attention that they see now, it has to be almost
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: greater than what you might have had when you were
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: in the scene at the moment. Like I think of
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: American football, I think of a slint or a band
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: like that. I think of 400 years.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: We just had Nim on like a couple months ago
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: and Nim is like one of those as well. Like
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: they've gotten way more popular than what they were back
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: when they actually were a band.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I think this renewed interest is such a fascinating phenomenon
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: because I can't think of really any scene that had
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: this similar thing in history.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: That I can think of at least.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: I agree. I think it's totally fascinating and, and it's awesome.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: You know, like it's very exciting for us to get
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: to revisit this period and that people care about this music.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: It's like, it's been really nice for me to reconnect
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: with it and to get to explore what all of
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: that meant and to have that opportunity. It's just like,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: I'm really grateful that people care, you know? And, and
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: to your point, yeah, I think there are, there are like,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: there's sometimes it's like so much more interest than, you know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: what you had originally. So I think like on love it,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: they just released this far apart record, which was like
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: a band that almost nobody knew about. And it's like,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: they can't keep it pressed. Like it just keeps selling out,
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: you know? So it's really interesting to watch how that's happening.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: And I, I personally love it.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think it goes back to like what
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: we were talking about earlier of like, there's definitely whether
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: it's even younger fans or fans that were actually, you know,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: fan of 400 years back then, uh, there there's like this,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I think generally this desire to like, kind of go
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: back to like, what, what did this feel like at
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: this time, whether you were born at that time or,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you know, lived during that time, or you were, you
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: lived much later, there is kind of this like desire
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: of like, what was it like when, uh, I couldn't
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: just like immediately get in touch with somebody across the planet,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: you know, like, like there's just something about like the
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: rawness of Uh, of that, there, there's something about the, the,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: the human connection, locality, the human connection. There's just something
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: about all of that that I think a lot of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: people are really desiring. And so, yeah, when they, when,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: you know, whether it's some 20 year old that's listening
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: to 400 years for the first time or somebody who's
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: 45 and listening to you guys for the 450th time, uh,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: it does, it doesn't matter. Like, I think people are
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: really like drawn to like that timeframe of life.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does seem that way. And it's also really
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: cool to see all these bands that we toured with
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: and played with who were also massive influences on us,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: like also doing this at the same time. And there's
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: such a camaraderie between all of these bands and everyone's
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: so supportive of each other and like getting to watch
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: Shotmaker and Slinky Time Trio and Garden Variety. And like,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: I've remained friends with a lot of these people and
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: it's so awesome that like we're all kind of in
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: this moment together again and it feels different. we're looking back,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: but we also get to celebrate each other. And I,
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: I love that. I love that for us and for
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: all the new people.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: I do have to ask this question then at what
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: level of streams or fame or however you want to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: quantify it, would it take for 400 years to play
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: again or even potentially make music again? Because there's been
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: bands that have had this experience now and they're like, oh,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: I guess we have to start playing again.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked to a lot of those bands. Like
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden they play that one show, that
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: one reunion show, and here they are. They're like, well,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: that kind of like scratched that itch really nice. That
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: was a nice scratch.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: It's that renewal of interest, though, is what I'm getting at.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: That starts with it. That starts it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely get it. And like
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: watching Sleepy Time play and Garden Bridie is getting back together.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Like I know a bunch of bands. I mean... I
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: also love these bands that are just having another run,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: like another, like watching quicksand, like have this whole new
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: era and the records are so fucking good. Like I just,
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, I liked them back in the nineties, but
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I actually like this new era even more. Um, and
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: so I love, I love where I feel like we
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: can take it now. I, you know, for me personally, um,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: that probably is not 400 years playing shows, but there
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: is something new to do with this energy. And Ash
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: and I are carrying that forward with something new that
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: will come as part, like I'm announcing it here to
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: you guys, that there's a new thing, a new project.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: And we specifically took a lot of the DNA of
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: what 400 years is, and we brought it into this
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: new thing. So it was produced by Jay Robbins, who
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: also plays bass on it. who did Transmit Failure. It's
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: me and Ash, Jay, and then Josh Newton from Shiner
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: is playing guitar on it as well. So to me,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: it's the same spirit, but I was more interested in
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: doing something new that felt relevant to me at this
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: point as an artist, but carrying that same spirit and
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: idea through. So that's my version. Would I say that
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: it's impossible for 400 years to play another show? I
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: would never say that anything's impossible. So We, you know,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: we talked about it, Dave and I have talked about
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: it a little bit. And I think some of it
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: is just like, could we even do it? Like, again,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: like these songs are so specific to kind of what
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: that chemistry was at that time.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Right. I'm, I'm not sure we feel like we could
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: do it even. So yes, I do think. I, from
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: the beginning, when we got into this reissue project, I
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: was like, nostalgia is great, but I want to do
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: something new. Like to me, that feels exciting. Um, and
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: I'll be interested to see whether people that like 400
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: years will care about the new thing and we'll, we'll
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: see how that goes. You know, it might not be
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: the same thing, but, but I love that it got
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: me excited to make music that is related to this again.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm excited to, to carry it forward and yeah,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: we'll see about 400 years. I would never say never.
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Love that.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Can I ask a question that it may be? the
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: question might sound like a criticism. It's not meant to
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: be that it's like genuine, genuine curiosity to give you
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: some context. Like we've definitely heard, like I said before,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: like we've, we've definitely talked to a lot of bands
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: where they kind of like are coming back or, or
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: maybe like an artist is like, you know, we played
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: that one off show and now I'm like really interested
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: in maybe like, you know, I've, I've like dabbled around
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: with like writing some new music. And then it's like,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: now it's like, well, is that music that project or
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: is it like a different project? And, and, and, and
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: we've heard that kind of like that, that sort of
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: narrative before. I'm curious, like for you, if it feels
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: similar enough to like 400 years, but like maybe a
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: little something new, like why, why still not sort of
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: branded under 400 years? Like what, why does it feel
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: for you to like, Oh, let's like, let's, let's start
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: a new band. That's under a new name. It's a
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: new project. Why, why, why sort of the, like, effort
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: to like do a whole other thing when it's, when the,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: when you could just brand it under a thing that
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: already exists and is sort of established. Like, I'm curious, like, again,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: like I know that might sound like a criticism, but
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, like what, like what, what's the impulse around
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: that for you to like make it a new thing
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: rather than a new version of a thing that already exists?
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I, first of all, I, I think
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: it's a great question. you know, and, and it definitely
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: is a good one to just ask. I think to me,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: 400 years was specifically about that chemistry of those people.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: And this is actually nothing even on bowl who ended
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: up playing with us in the last couple of years
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: that we were abandoned and plays on the new imperialism.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: But to me, that lineup of Aaron, Ash, me and Dave,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: like that is 400 years, like at its core. And yeah, this,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: you know, this new thing is just not that. So like,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: it just, it would not have been, to me, it
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: didn't make sense to call it that. And I think
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: it's possible to take the spirit of what that was
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: about and aspects of it and carry it forward for
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: me as an artist. But to be like, well, what
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: does that look like for me now? And what can
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: I build with that? that I feel inspired by what
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: it is that we did then, but is, it does
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: feel like it's something different. It feels like it's something new. And,
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: you know, I just, I don't think we could call
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: it 400 years without it being really that chemistry of those,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: those people.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. Yeah. The reason why I ask, I feel
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: like Dave Bazan and Pedro, the lion were like kind
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: of by, cause I hear this again, like we hear
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: this a lot where I remember David in some sort
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: of interview was like, yeah, I could keep releasing music
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: under just like Dave Bazan. Uh, and because he was
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: doing that for a while, like Pedro was sort of done.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: And he was just doing, but he was like, I
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like making the same music that I was, I
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: would make under the label Pedro. And he's like, I
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: could get 20 people to come to my show under
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Dave Bazan, or I could get 500 people to come
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: to my show under Pedro lion. And if I'm going
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: to make the same music regardless, why not just brand
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it under the thing that already sort of.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: From a marketing perspective, it makes perfect sense. Like, of course,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: like we know there's an audience for 400 years, right?
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Like it's evident, like that's already there. Will there be
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: an audience for opt out, which is the name of
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: the new project?
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Hey, we got a name.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: Awesome.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Opt out.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, great.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Opting out of society, opting out of the algorithm.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: Opting out of all kinds of things. Yeah. Opting out
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: of the algorithm, like, just the option to opt out.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: I love opting out of like email notifications.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a modern version of refusing,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: you know, but like a different way to, to say that.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I try to opt out of Mason's text messages, but
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: you know, it.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Doesn't work for you guys. You can't opt out of
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: all of it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It hasn't worked for 17 years. I don't think
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: it's going to work anymore.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: But no, like as a, as a, from a marketing perspective,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: that's 100% right. There's no guarantee that people will transfer
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: over that are 400 years fans. But I think because
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: of the alchemy that we talked about, about what 400
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: years is and how all those pieces work together is,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Just artistically, it had to be this way.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Well, anything we can do to help to get the
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: word out, we would love to try.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: To get as many 400-year fans over to opt-out. That'd
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: be great. Yeah, yeah. There'll be more on it as
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: we kind of get further into the release cycle. But yeah,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: you're the first ones to know about this new project.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Beautiful. Well, I'm opting in to opting out.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: Great. We love it when people opt in to opt out.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: We need someone to go update the 400 years Wikipedia and, uh,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: bats and mice Wikipedia so that they know that there
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: is a connected, uh, band or artist.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: If we do our job, make sure you link the black.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Job, right?
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: So they'll know we definitely will. 100%.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Love it. Cullen, should we dive into top five?
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Let's do top five. Top five most influential albums.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: I'm on the spot here.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: What are they? Like a few guys, he's got to
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: be on there, right?
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Repeater.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Repeater, yes.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: Repeater.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's an interesting one.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Okay. All right, guys.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: That is the right answer.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I love 13 songs in those first two EPs when
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: they came out were so important for me. But when
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Repeater dropped in 91, it was just like, like that
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: was a sea change moment for me. I feel like
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: they just came together on that record in a way
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: that just was like blue open everything. So yeah, that
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: is definitely one. Bad Brains, Eye Against Eye, which is
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: not the one that most people pick, but like that
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: was my jam. Like that is definitely in there in
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: the top five.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I just saw there was like a Instagram reel. I
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: think I sent it to you, Cullen, of, of, of,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: some Bad Brains live footage.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: It was amazing.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Man, like the things that I would do to go back,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: if I, you know, would have been alive at that
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: time to go back and experience that, that would have
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: been amazing.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah. I mean, I got to see HR like
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: on one of his solo tours after Bad Brains and
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: he played some Bad Brains songs and even that was amazing.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that band, I'm going to say Swerve Driver's Meskelhead.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys know that. Swerve Driver.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I know Swerve Driver. I don't know if I know
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: the album per se.
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that album, very influential, very important for me. There's
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: so many to choose from. I want to pick the
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: right ones. Unwound, The Future of What?
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Unwound.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: Yes. Great.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, Colin, I, that, that was, uh, the, uh, what's
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: the record shop in, in Sioux Falls that, and, and
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: we saw the, the vinyl and I was like, have
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: you not heard this band before? Um, but that was that.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: And I like started playing some of the Unwound stuff,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: but I was like, I literally up until this year,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I'd never heard of Unwound Darren. And I heard some
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: early Unwound stuff and I'm like, how did I miss this?
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: This is incredible.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And very influential on me in 400 Years, that band.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Love that. Yeah, I can definitely hear that.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really, really influential. And then the last one is
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Three Mile Pilot, Another Desert, Another Sea.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Which is like a San Diego band that Pinback and
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: Blackheart Procession came out of.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, love Blackheart Procession. I think I have every record
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: on vinyl. But yeah, that is a great band.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: As well, though. Yeah, Dave and I were both super
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: into that record and listened to it nonstop. Yeah, that
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: was hard to pick five because there's a bunch of others.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: You picked some really good ones, though. I don't think
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: we've had any of those bands on a top five
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: list yet.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: Fugazi?
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've had a Fugazi. No, we definitely haven't.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I would have remembered.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to pretend that that... I can't
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: think of any off the top of my head, but
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not even going to pretend. That's like That's like
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: someone saying, like, I'm like, I know for a fact
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: we've had Linkin Park, right?
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. We've had a lot of Linkin Park. But, like,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we've had a Fugazi even.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: All right. You don't have to tell me. If you
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: haven't had a Fugazi, I would.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I can guarantee you that, like, I guarantee you me
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: without you has had Fugazi on there. Those guys were, like,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: total Fugazi guys.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: Guaranteed.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I know Greg didn't have it, but maybe.
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I guarantee we will.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Sounds good.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: Sounds good.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I trust you, Mason. I trust you.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: We'll have to, we'll have to put.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Our, get off my back.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You're going to have to go back and go
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: through every episode. And I want to know.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: It has to be. All right, Darren, what do you
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: want to plug? So obviously reissues, obviously.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And then opt out. We're opting into opt out. Uh, yeah.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: What do you say more about, you know, what, why
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: you want to plug with all that?
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: So, yeah. So transmit failure reissue comes out, remix remastered
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: on the 20th of November. So that's going to be
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: the first thing. And then opt out the first EP,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: which is called equanimity is going to come out in
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: early 2027. And then suture.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: 400 years album suture will also be reissued. Also remix
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: and remastered in 2027. That's exciting. Um, Yeah. And then
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: we're working on another opt-out EP. So that also will
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: probably come out in later 2027. So lots of music.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Busy, busy, busy.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Busy, busy, busy.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's a lot to plug.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: That is a lot to plug. Yeah. Real quick question.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: What are your daughters? You said you had two daughters?
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: What do your daughters think about this?
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. They started telling me that some
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: of their friends were into 400 years and had like
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: found us and were watching like YouTube videos. And it
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: was like, they didn't.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Know that like, they didn't know that you were in
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: it or what?
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: They knew that I was in it, but like, they
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: just hadn't like, it was starting to come to them
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: from their friends. And they were like, dad, this is
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: super weird. But my friends like know about, and my
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: youngest daughter plays bass and she was playing bass in
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: a band with some other girls and they, her, one
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: of her bandmates was like really into 400 years to
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: the point that it got kind of weird for my daughter.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: Like she was like, this is weird.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: My friends think you're hot, dad.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: So yeah, they, I mean, I think they, you know,
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: it's their dad. So they're like, they, they keep a little,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: right to be like, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's cool.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: It's like not that cool.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: It's not that cool.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: I watched him burn a hot dog once.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: He's not that cool.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I've burned a lot of hot dogs.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: He's way better at guitar than he is on the,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: on the fire.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. They, I mean, they have great taste in music
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: and they're super into things that they're, they're showing me
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: new things, but like a lot of what I know
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: about how their generation experiences music is through them. And it's, it's,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: awesome to see. That's amazing. Yeah. I learned more from
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: them now than they learned from me, but sure. I
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: think they had a good foundation.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: That's cool. Was there anything else that you'd like to plug?
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Hmm. Well, do.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: You have another, do you have another bombshell for us here?
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think what I'm going to plug
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: is that I think I was the first one to
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: introduce you guys to each other. What?
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: Maybe you didn't really realize that.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I don't quite remember that.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: At our youth group?
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: What's the story?
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, at your youth group. I was there. I was
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: in disguise. You probably didn't recognize me.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Were you one of the adult chaperones?
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the adult chaperones, exactly. And I had
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: a mustache, so you probably wouldn't have recognized me in
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: a different pair of glasses.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Was it like a dark brown mustache?
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: But you had blonde hair.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: And a neckerchief. I wore like a neckerchief.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that?
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yes.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Mason and I, Mason and I, we had very different
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: viewpoints at that time.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: I was like, you two guys should really get together.
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: I think you'll have a lot to talk about. And
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: I think you'll like each other. And I, you know,
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: I just put you two together. Okay. This is, this
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: is actually really about chemistry.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: It's ringing a bell. It's ringing quite the bell now. Uh, Mason,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: do you remember when we were on that, um, on
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: that tabernacle retreat near, near Platte? That was it? Yeah,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: he was there.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: The mustache guy with the neckerchief.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: We thought he was a little weird because around our parts,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: we're from a really rural area. Mason and I thought
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: that you were potentially a gay man.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're not going to reveal whether I may
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: have been or not.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe your disguised character was gay.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: I do not.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: You guys are going to have to sit.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: With that for a while. It's like one of those
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: things where it's like a faint memory. It's like, did
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: that happen? It's almost like deja vu where it's like,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: what was that?
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Memory is unreliable. It's unreliable.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: It sounds like you have some inkling that it happened.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Well, clearly you're a good matchmaker.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: I understand chemistry. I definitely know how to put people together.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: You see, I always have trouble with this because Mason
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: will gaslight me all the time. And I'm always wondering...
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: is this actually the truth or not? But I believe you, Darren,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: over Mason.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you probably should believe me.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Don't blame me on that at all.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Don't blame me at all.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what a gaslighter would do. Oh yeah, I
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: wouldn't blame you.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: I know it seems unbelievable, but if you really search
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: back into your memory, can you know for sure that
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: it's not true?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: It's a good point. Geez, now I feel like No.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Am I like in memento right now?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Like you might be.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to start tattooing all of my
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: memories on my body.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: You might have to. Yeah. You gotta, it's an unreliable thing.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Oh man.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have to discuss this more later on.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You guys, you dig into it a little bit deeper. Yeah.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: We're going to have to, yeah, we're going to have
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: to like talk more through all of that. Cause I,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I don't quite remember, but it's like almost there. Okay.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I, I, I remember it. I'll, I'll, we'll talk
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: about it later, Mason. That's awesome.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: All right. Yeah. See when you guys like really get
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: into thinking about what happened the day that you met,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: you know, if it starts to just get a little clearer,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: I'm going to focus.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, it kind of, do you actually remember
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: the day that you met? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember the day. I just like, don't remember
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: you being involved in it. Like I've just, it's, But
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: I remember that kind of creepy guy with the mustache.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: But here's the deal, Mason. There's kind of some interesting
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: religious undertones with this because we met at youth group, right?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: And 400 years, is that like the intertestamental period? Is
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: that what that's a reference to?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: The silent period of the Bible?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: That's fascinating.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah. And there's a lot of biblical themes. Full circle.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: It was very religious. There's stuff that goes through there.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Totally. Totally.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: And you know, do you remember the whole day you met?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: Like could have been interesting things happening. And so just
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: really unpack it, sit with it and then see, we'll
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: talk again.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm excited for the next time we talk because
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to have much better memory next time.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Well, uh, thank you so much, Darren, uh, for chatting
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: more about all things 400 years, again, just legendary band.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Love the fact that there's like new energy around, obviously
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: with the reissues, obviously then even like the new energy
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: around opt-in and the new projects that you've got. So
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: just super excited. I think the world's a better place.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: For opt-in.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Did I say opt-out?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: You said opt-in.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Opt-out.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's perfect. It is perfect. I like how those
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: are working together. It's already coming together. No, I really...
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate you guys having me on and it's,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: it's been really fun to talk about this stuff and yeah,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: you guys are great together.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: I'm really glad I introduced you.