Latest / Ridiculous History / Wait, How Do I Know It's Funny? A Rollicking History of Laugh Tracks

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Wait, How Do I Know It's Funny? A Rollicking History of Laugh Tracks · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's give it up for
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Speaker 1: the man, the myth legend, the one and only super producer,
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Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. Max Williams, Now, who's that? Who's that
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Speaker 1: with that beautiful dulcet laugh over there? Why that's my
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Speaker 1: writer die. Mr Noel Brown h called me ben no.
1:01
Speaker 1: We gave we gave Max a little uh, a little
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Speaker 1: extra TLC in the opening here. To be fair, he
1:08
Speaker 1: gave himself most of that TLC. We just kind of
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Speaker 1: supplied the the impetus for the sound design and then
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Speaker 1: who knows where he went with it. And it was
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Speaker 1: probably a whole chorus of of laughs and jeers and
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Speaker 1: booze and applause. And it's very confused how the virtual
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Speaker 1: audience feels about Max Frogs Okay, crickets, I feel you,
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Speaker 1: But we were we're gonna but we're gonna be buttoned
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Speaker 1: up on our sound design at the front and you'll
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Speaker 1: see why because we're getting very weird as this goes on.
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Speaker 1: You may Ridiculous Historians be familiar with the concept of
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Speaker 1: a laugh track, right, a laugh track? No, what is
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Speaker 1: the laugh track? What would you just if no one
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Speaker 1: had ever heard of? How would you describe it? Well,
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Speaker 1: it is a track, a recording of laughter that is
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Speaker 1: triggered for effect, psychological um or otherwise. It essentially is
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Speaker 1: a prerecorded sound effect that is intended to imply to
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Speaker 1: an audience that something was funny, even if maybe it
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Speaker 1: wasn't that funny. Yes, oh, you nailed it. And that's
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Speaker 1: my actual laugh. I don't think that Max uh put
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Speaker 1: that in or punched that up. I am. That's one
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Speaker 1: of the kind of little laughs you'd hear for for
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Speaker 1: realism in between like like like the good laugh tracks
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Speaker 1: are designed to feel like there is some actual interaction
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Speaker 1: with the content, and so occasionally they'll be like someone
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Speaker 1: kisses maybe in like an episode of Full House, or
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Speaker 1: like a little in between kind of like yeah, or
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Speaker 1: like maybe right, or maybe a little in between kind
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Speaker 1: of snicker like you just did or what would you
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Speaker 1: call that sort of a not a guffa? Uh? What
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Speaker 1: do you call that kind of a muffled low laugh?
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Speaker 1: I call it an internet laugh. I don't know, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there it is. It's it's the golf clap of excelation.
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Speaker 1: So here's our story, folks. Thanks to our research associate
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Speaker 1: Jeff Bartlett, we dove deep into the world of laugh tracks.
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Speaker 1: And as you so, uh, we were arguing about this
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Speaker 1: off air, I was saying, I was looking for the
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Speaker 1: right word, Noli said astute lee. And I don't think
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Speaker 1: astute lee covers it. No, it's amazing, it's amazer focused lee.
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Speaker 1: How about that? There we go, there we go and uh.
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Speaker 1: And so what we're talking about here is a way
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Speaker 1: to guide audience urience. That's what situational comedies known as
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Speaker 1: sitcoms aimed to do. But where do laugh tracks come from?
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Speaker 1: The story dates back, uh, if you're talking about the
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Speaker 1: modern laugh track, the story dates back to the nineteen
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Speaker 1: fifties and a brilliant television engineer named Charles Douglas with
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Speaker 1: the invention of the laugh box. But as we'll see,
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Speaker 1: it goes even further slash farther back. Just made a
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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of sticklers angry in the English. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and leave it to an engineer to solve a problem
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Speaker 1: that no one even knew was a problem. Where it's like,
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Speaker 1: how you know it was? It was? I imagine it
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Speaker 1: was this eureka moment where it's like, how do we
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Speaker 1: hold the audience by the hand, because back in the
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Speaker 1: day things were much more stock you know, early situation
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Speaker 1: comedies where situational comedies every character kind of was a
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Speaker 1: type almost like old school Greek Comedia del arte and
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Speaker 1: things like that, where there was like the fool and
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Speaker 1: the you know, the romantic and all of these differently
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Speaker 1: kind of like stock characters. So it was already the
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Speaker 1: writing kind of leading the audience by the nose, But
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Speaker 1: what if we took it a step further and literally
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Speaker 1: kind of told them how to react and told them
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Speaker 1: what was supposed to be funny or touching or sad.
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Speaker 1: So for anyone who has watched something by yourself, you
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Speaker 1: understand it's uh, maybe somewhat rare for you on your
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Speaker 1: lonesome to go all or to go I mean, something
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Speaker 1: real really has to nail it and be incredibly funny
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Speaker 1: for you to laugh out loud when you're by yourself,
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Speaker 1: because you know, that's why it's fun to go see
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Speaker 1: movies with an audience or like see theater and things
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Speaker 1: like that, because laughter and emotion is kind of infectious
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Speaker 1: and what the last contagious? Yeah, And what I guess
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Speaker 1: Charles Douglas kind of figured out was that he could
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Speaker 1: enhance the view quote unquote enhance the viewing experience by
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Speaker 1: kind of letting people know how to feel. So if
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Speaker 1: they did happen to be by themselves and there was
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Speaker 1: no one around them for them to laugh with, they
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Speaker 1: had this kind of virtual friend group to like laugh with.
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Speaker 1: M Yes, yeah, because humans like to feel connected, right,
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Speaker 1: And this is where the laugh box comes in. By
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Speaker 1: the way, folks, for those of us playing along at home,
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Speaker 1: it is the laugh box l a F F styled
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Speaker 1: box spelled the regular trademarks trademark. It's like more fun
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Speaker 1: because a laugh is spelled incorrectly with a double F
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Speaker 1: is somehow sillier. I don't know. Yeah, there you go.
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Speaker 1: You get it. So if you have ever seen sitcoms
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Speaker 1: from the nineteen fifties on you the nineties, I would
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Speaker 1: say until about early two thousand's in the US, then
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Speaker 1: you are familiar with Charles Douglas indirectly. Nowadays, pretty much
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Speaker 1: no one likes laugh tracks, right, It's like a weird
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Speaker 1: meta commentary because everyone is aware of it. But back
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Speaker 1: in the day when this was happening, it communicated directly
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Speaker 1: with people. Now, if we have writers in the audience,
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Speaker 1: if we have TV writers in the audience, Noel, Max
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Speaker 1: and I love comedy and we legitimately research it and
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Speaker 1: send the stuff we'd like to each other. Uh, if
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Speaker 1: we have writers in the audience here, fellow ridiculous historians,
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Speaker 1: you will know that often, uh, these days, a laugh
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Speaker 1: track is immediately idea unified as a band aid over
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Speaker 1: a bad joke. And maybe we do a sitcom here
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Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, uh, we're doing like, oh gosh,
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Speaker 1: Perfect Strangers and Dreams or something, and one of us
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Speaker 1: walks in and says, still, hey, got all these grapes,
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Speaker 1: And someone looks up from the couch and they go, well,
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Speaker 1: that's grape for you. How do you do? Right there?
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Speaker 1: It's true, And you know it's especially shows like that,
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Speaker 1: like Perfect Strangers for example, And again like this was
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Speaker 1: created in the fifties, but the imprint of it, you know,
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Speaker 1: really carried over into the eighties and it really becomes
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Speaker 1: sort of a historical marker of like early sitcoms again
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Speaker 1: through about the mid nineties, when it was much more
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Speaker 1: standard and when things were filmed like on sets, you know,
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Speaker 1: there there was also obviously a period where there were
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Speaker 1: live studio audiences and if there wasn't a laugh track,
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Speaker 1: there might be like a like a sign that would
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Speaker 1: come on that it would say applause, and then people
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Speaker 1: would you know, and and and sometimes before the actual shoot,
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Speaker 1: you have like a warm up comedian that would come
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Speaker 1: out there and kind of teach people the ropes and
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Speaker 1: like get people kind of like oiled up and ready,
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Speaker 1: you know, to to laugh, and then that sometimes would
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Speaker 1: be mixed in with maybe other sound effects. Totally, you're
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Speaker 1: absolutely right, now, this is a this is a thing
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Speaker 1: I see when I go to watch like live tapings
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Speaker 1: of you know, late night shows or whatever. What you
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Speaker 1: don't see when the program starts is easily the first
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Speaker 1: thirty minutes of the warm up comedian. And also, don't
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Speaker 1: think I didn't clock that oil up language there. Again,
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Speaker 1: did we teach people how to how to react? And
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Speaker 1: that's also what this laugh track is doing. It's kind
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Speaker 1: of getting people, oh yeah, I hear you. It's getting
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Speaker 1: people um in the mindset to kind of engage with
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Speaker 1: the content, but also sort of be not really given
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Speaker 1: the agency to engage of their own kind of accord.
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Speaker 1: And again it's sometimes is like you said, a band
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Speaker 1: aid and becomes sort of a hallmark and when you
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Speaker 1: hear it now, it's usually used in like you know,
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Speaker 1: adults swim, like too many cooks or something like that.
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Speaker 1: It's meant to like satirize these types of shows where
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Speaker 1: the laugh track is almost like you know, dated, almost
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Speaker 1: like a filter you'd put on the video to make
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Speaker 1: it look more like you know, VHSE or something. Oh good,
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Speaker 1: call yeah. And there's a guy who agrees with us.
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Speaker 1: He is a journalist named Rob Walker. Way back in
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Speaker 1: two thousand and three, he wrote a piece for The
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Speaker 1: New York Times called The Lives They Lived Making Us
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Speaker 1: Laugh and Uh. One thing that really stands out in
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Speaker 1: this article is a conversation with a professor of psychology
11:03
Speaker 1: at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, Robert Provine or
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Speaker 1: Provine But I suspect Provine, who says, Oh, he's an
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Speaker 1: actually guy, And I say that with deep affection. He says, actually,
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Speaker 1: laugh tracks do increase the likelihood that you'll think a
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Speaker 1: joke is funny and laugh at it. So what Charlie
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Speaker 1: Douglas and company we're doing was based in fact. This
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Speaker 1: is the funny thing about laugh tracks. For a long
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Speaker 1: time they worked. You would be passing by casually, casually
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Speaker 1: encountering a show perhaps, and you would see, you know,
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Speaker 1: a prap fall or something, and then all of a
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Speaker 1: sudden you hear this cacophonists laughter. Everybody in the perceived
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Speaker 1: audience is using their mind. Europe person, you like cool stuff,
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Speaker 1: so you are more tempted to laugh. Yeah. Pravine refers
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Speaker 1: to in that same New York Times article something called
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Speaker 1: a laugh detector. That is, you know, similar to like
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Speaker 1: when when we hear see somebody yawn, we're compelled to yawn.
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Speaker 1: And this laugh detector is sort of hardwired, as he
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Speaker 1: describes in that article, into our brains, and it's sort
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Speaker 1: of like infectious. When we hear somebody start to laugh,
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Speaker 1: it triggers that response in ourselves. Also, did you guys
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Speaker 1: know it is possible for Austin's humans to pass a
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Speaker 1: yawn to our casts, and the casts to pass thought
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Speaker 1: I should just drop that note in here. Also blinks
12:45
Speaker 1: backs h did not know that one? You can blink
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Speaker 1: at your cat. Blinking it a cat is like hugging
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Speaker 1: the cat. I only do staring contest with mine and
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Speaker 1: I was winn by the way, all right, we'll put
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Speaker 1: a laugh track in or in awe up to you. So,
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Speaker 1: so which is it gonna be? Which is it gonna be?
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Speaker 1: We don't know, We don't know. So there's this interesting
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Speaker 1: research that goes into the history of the laugh track.
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Speaker 1: Uh if you look back at some of the earlier experiments.
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Speaker 1: The guy made a list of twenty five pre laugh comments,
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Speaker 1: by which he means comments that elicit the laughter response
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Speaker 1: and there very basic. You're not gonna hear any surprises.
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Speaker 1: We're not going to read all but there are things
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Speaker 1: like well it was nice meeting you too, and can't
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Speaker 1: see you guys later, that kind of stuff almost catch phrases.
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Speaker 1: You know, if you've ever seen the Fisher king, um,
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Speaker 1: what's his name? Jeff Bridges plays this like shock chock
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Speaker 1: DJ who does like a TV pilot and I believe
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Speaker 1: his catch phrase laugh, well it forgive me and like
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Speaker 1: you know, a line like that always gets the laugh
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Speaker 1: or like you know, Steve Rkel saying did I do
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Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, Like those are the moments
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Speaker 1: that are like they're they're sign posting, you know, what
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Speaker 1: they want their brands to kind of be built around
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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways to Yeah, and this, uh,
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Speaker 1: this has proven laughter is contagious, just like Max you
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Speaker 1: pointed out that yawning can be contagious across species. So
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Speaker 1: here's the thing the research is in, right, Uh, we
14:36
Speaker 1: know laughter is contagious, not just between human groups. It's
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Speaker 1: not just the universal human thing. You can communicate amusement,
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Speaker 1: right and share that experience, just like yawning. And that
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Speaker 1: necessarily means that something like a laugh track, some sort
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Speaker 1: of leverage or exploit of that realization came to pass
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Speaker 1: way before television. Think about the last time you were
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Speaker 1: at a concert maybe or a religious event. There are
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Speaker 1: certain things you do as a group, right, and these
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Speaker 1: are social cues. So the idea of having some sort
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Speaker 1: of social cue ha ha, laugh, clap, clap, clap, boo
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Speaker 1: hoo hoo, all that stuff is very old and experts
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Speaker 1: say it dates back to the Roman Empire, if not before. Uh.
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Speaker 1: Nero a guy who like is his own episode honestly,
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Speaker 1: uh not not a great guy, not the best in
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Speaker 1: the fiddled while Rome burned well psy that might be propaganda,
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Speaker 1: but it's like between Nero and Woodrow Wilson. For terror leaders,
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Speaker 1: I don't know a little tiny aside. I don't know
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Speaker 1: if you'll remember this, but back in the day, there
16:08
Speaker 1: was a piece of CD burning software. I don't know
16:11
Speaker 1: if you'll remember when you would like burn CDs and
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Speaker 1: it was called Nero. I always thought that was a
16:15
Speaker 1: little bit like inappropriate, right, So so this this is
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Speaker 1: the thing. Rome I had a lot of you know,
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Speaker 1: bread and circuses. Not to be too on the nose,
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Speaker 1: they had many amphitheaters. It was there was a drive
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Speaker 1: towards entertainment, right like to either amuse or distract the
16:41
Speaker 1: civilian population. And Nero was a real ham. He loved
16:47
Speaker 1: chewing the scenery, he loved performing. He was called by
16:52
Speaker 1: the people that he didn't kill an actor and a
16:57
Speaker 1: poet and also of course the emperor. But he did
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Speaker 1: something that might surprise folks. It's very big dictator energy
17:08
Speaker 1: he would have. Yeah, oh I didn't think about that. Now,
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Speaker 1: let's keep it in the laugh track, will save us.
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Speaker 1: Uh So he uh. He had members of the military.
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Speaker 1: He forced them to go to his shows. Like if
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Speaker 1: you've ever felt socially obligated to go to a show
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Speaker 1: like NOL one time, a couple of times, actually you
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Speaker 1: felt socially obligated to go to one of my like
17:40
Speaker 1: weird improv things or or stage performance, and I'm glad
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Speaker 1: you were there, but also you were not a member
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Speaker 1: of the military, and you did not have the Emperor
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Speaker 1: telling you, upon pain of death to clap. Well, that's
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Speaker 1: the first law sign. It reminds me of like if
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Speaker 1: you watch The Sopranos, they're always referring to themselves, the
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Speaker 1: Gangsters and the Sopranos as being like Roman soldiers, because
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Speaker 1: obviously Italians are descendants of Romans, and there is this
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Speaker 1: hierarchy of like the capos and like the sort of
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Speaker 1: like you know, pecking order, and a joke that always
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Speaker 1: kind of comes around in The Sopranos is everyone laughing
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Speaker 1: at Tony Soprano's bad jokes, and there comes a moment
18:24
Speaker 1: in the series where he kind of gets wise to
18:27
Speaker 1: that where he realizes that, like everyone is just sort
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Speaker 1: of kissing his butt. And obviously what we're talking about
18:34
Speaker 1: here with Nero was very intentional, but it happens sort
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Speaker 1: of like you know, organically too in leadership structures, where
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Speaker 1: you have the kind of head han show and everyone
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Speaker 1: sort of falls in line and acts as though what
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Speaker 1: everything that person says is is hilarious or genius, sort
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Speaker 1: of a yes man kind of mentality. But we're seeing
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Speaker 1: here with Nero is a sort of organized, codified version
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Speaker 1: of that, where these literally conscripting soul Jersey to sort
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Speaker 1: of pad the audience. Yeah, yeah, weird time. And in
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Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds we see this trend return. I mean,
19:12
Speaker 1: this trend has always existed. There's a French poet named
19:15
Speaker 1: gen Dur who buys a bunch of tickets to his
19:21
Speaker 1: own show and gives them out for free. With one caveat,
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Speaker 1: he says, I'm giving you this free ticket. You have
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Speaker 1: to go to it. When you go to my show,
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Speaker 1: you have to applaud my poetry, whether or not you
19:37
Speaker 1: like it. Well, isn't it interesting how there's theater on
19:40
Speaker 1: both sides of the precedium. You know, there's obviously, you know,
19:46
Speaker 1: scripted kind of stuff happening on stage in terms of
19:48
Speaker 1: a play or you know, stand up or whatever it
19:50
Speaker 1: might be. But oftentimes, like with Awards shows for example,
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Speaker 1: you know, there are seat fillers and there are individuals
19:57
Speaker 1: that are hired to come in and pat out the
20:00
Speaker 1: audience to make it look better attendive than maybe it
20:03
Speaker 1: actually is or you know, to kind of take the
20:05
Speaker 1: place of people that are getting up and going to
20:07
Speaker 1: the stage. It's all theater on that side as well
20:10
Speaker 1: to a degree. Yeah, agreed. And we we head forward
20:16
Speaker 1: to the mid seventeen hundreds, we see this becomes a
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Speaker 1: popular thing in French opera houses. This didn't just start
20:26
Speaker 1: with Hollywood award shows. It's it's a very old, very
20:30
Speaker 1: old concept, as you pointed out, and at this time
20:34
Speaker 1: in the seventeen hundreds, the theater would consider it a
20:38
Speaker 1: cost of production. You would pay organized groups or crews
20:44
Speaker 1: to come through and clap their hearts out, you know,
20:48
Speaker 1: laugh is loud, maybe weep openly. Uh, and may probably
20:54
Speaker 1: have specialized folks, you know those. This guy's a good class.
20:58
Speaker 1: He's got a really you know, big hand ends right
21:00
Speaker 1: exactly and you know, I love clapping. We gotta get
21:03
Speaker 1: to this, no, uh, what a great set up. Clack
21:07
Speaker 1: hours can tell us a little bit about them. Yeah,
21:10
Speaker 1: it's essentially something that the Shorter Oxford Dictionary defines a
21:15
Speaker 1: clack rather from the French verb clacker, as a band
21:19
Speaker 1: of hired applauds in a theater. So at this point
21:22
Speaker 1: was already so kind of entrenched in culture that it
21:25
Speaker 1: got its own word. So this is just an escalation
21:28
Speaker 1: or a kind of evolution of what we've been describing,
21:30
Speaker 1: you know, from the start, from back to Roman times. Um.
21:33
Speaker 1: And it really is part of the cost of doing
21:36
Speaker 1: business because you want, especially for like an opening night,
21:39
Speaker 1: you want to make a big splash and a lot
21:42
Speaker 1: a lot of times. It's the same with like critics.
21:44
Speaker 1: If you have a good critical response to something, people
21:47
Speaker 1: are more likely to shell out the money to go
21:49
Speaker 1: see it. And back before the days of maybe like
21:52
Speaker 1: instant rotten tomatoes reviews, it would be more a real
21:56
Speaker 1: time experience where maybe like, oh, well these people see
22:00
Speaker 1: very well to do and they seem to be enjoying it.
22:02
Speaker 1: It's it must be good. Yeah, yeah, because people pick
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Speaker 1: up social cues, right, that's the hack, that's the exploit.
22:10
Speaker 1: And uh, I love this. I love this idea because
22:15
Speaker 1: m Max you may not know this, but no, you
22:19
Speaker 1: know this very well. I love clapping. I love clapping
22:25
Speaker 1: for people. One of the number one fears in the
22:29
Speaker 1: modern West is the fear of public speaking. So anything
22:33
Speaker 1: I can do to support I'm on board. Uh, And
22:38
Speaker 1: I think and I again, I know it comes from
22:42
Speaker 1: a place of honesty because you would want to be
22:45
Speaker 1: treated that way as well. And you have been in
22:47
Speaker 1: that situation where maybe walking on the stage, your worst
22:51
Speaker 1: possible fear would be crickets. Nobody wants crickets. Crickets are great.
22:59
Speaker 1: They like, you know, eat certain insects that are maybe bad,
23:02
Speaker 1: but like nobody wants to hear them when you just
23:04
Speaker 1: you know, made a singer or told the personal story.
23:07
Speaker 1: Also they are, so maybe we should just eat them
23:10
Speaker 1: so they don't like, you know, an upisode about that
23:12
Speaker 1: or something that we're about when we're all talking about crickets. Yeah, delicious,
23:15
Speaker 1: only nose, guys, God only nose. God only knows. So
23:19
Speaker 1: this is this is a part where you know, there's
23:22
Speaker 1: some applause or nol does a really good like a
23:28
Speaker 1: whole lot of you know, okay, yeah, and it's only
23:34
Speaker 1: Darth Vader. If you breathe in first, I got you. Yeah,
23:38
Speaker 1: they'd be like, can I say really quickly? Um. Early
23:44
Speaker 1: in my career, when I was still in college, I
23:46
Speaker 1: used to record a symphony orchestra pretty regularly, and a big,
23:51
Speaker 1: the biggest pain in the butt about those edits. It
23:54
Speaker 1: was literally just two microphones in a beautiful sounding concert
23:57
Speaker 1: Hall was editing the applause. But the funny thing about
24:01
Speaker 1: applause is when it's being recorded on like two microphones,
24:05
Speaker 1: like a stereo microphone in a room, it is easy
24:08
Speaker 1: to just cut out a giant chunk because once the
24:11
Speaker 1: whole audience is kind of going wild like that, it
24:14
Speaker 1: just kind of becomes white noise and there are very
24:17
Speaker 1: unless there's like a really you know, obvious prominent clapper
24:19
Speaker 1: that's closer to the mic, or someone saying a bravo
24:22
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, the din of a crowd
24:26
Speaker 1: is pretty interchangeable, and it really does become this kind
24:29
Speaker 1: of It's very interesting the the just the sonic phenomenon
24:33
Speaker 1: of applause. Maybe Darth Vader was applauding the entire time.
24:38
Speaker 1: That changes the story. Yeah, like what was plotting? Your
24:43
Speaker 1: guess is as good as mine, right, yes, just so. Uh,
24:47
Speaker 1: there's also this idea of organization, right, so these class hours, Uh,
24:54
Speaker 1: they would they would roll deep and they would be
24:57
Speaker 1: coached in advance. You clap here or you or you
25:03
Speaker 1: weep here, right, Uh, And they were orchestrated. I like
25:08
Speaker 1: that comparison. They were orchestrated just the same way a
25:11
Speaker 1: conductor says, to the cello or to the oboe, you
25:16
Speaker 1: go in here, you stop here. This is an old,
25:22
Speaker 1: old thing, and you know, we don't have to get
25:26
Speaker 1: too lost in the history. Well, and to your point,
25:30
Speaker 1: then the orchestration of applause. If you've ever seen a
25:34
Speaker 1: really good performer, you know, do crowd work where they go, okay,
25:39
Speaker 1: the left side of the audience, yeah, now you're competing
25:42
Speaker 1: with the right side. It really is this kind of
25:46
Speaker 1: like collective unconscience that becomes this sort of like unified
25:50
Speaker 1: thing that you can game, not only psychologically but physically
25:55
Speaker 1: by saying, you know, you applaud and then for this,
25:58
Speaker 1: and then you applaud for that, And you can kind
26:00
Speaker 1: of get a sense of like how much people like
26:02
Speaker 1: something by how loud they get or how you know,
26:05
Speaker 1: raucous they get. Just the ladies, just the dudes, just
26:12
Speaker 1: the people. You know what, if you're a person, clap,
26:16
Speaker 1: what's that old Mitch Hedberg joke? Who here feels like
26:20
Speaker 1: a person? Who here feels like a animal or a monster. Well,
26:26
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna write Mitch Hedberg's jokes for him. He
26:28
Speaker 1: did it, God bless Uh. There's also a of course
26:33
Speaker 1: there's an equal opposite reaction. Right, Nothing exists in a
26:37
Speaker 1: vacuum unless you have cleaned my vacuum, which I did earlier,
26:43
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of stuff in there. What we
26:46
Speaker 1: mean to say is IM glad you got to bring
26:48
Speaker 1: that out into the actual podcast. You made that joke.
26:50
Speaker 1: We were hanging out the other day and I thought
26:52
Speaker 1: it was spot on. Definitely exists in a vacuum. He
26:56
Speaker 1: was really proud of that joke because I don't remember
26:58
Speaker 1: where he made it to me, but he made maybe
26:59
Speaker 1: look at the text or base campaign or something, but
27:03
Speaker 1: he really went out of his way to make that
27:04
Speaker 1: joke to me. Also, I want you guys to like
27:07
Speaker 1: me and laugh at that. I don't. I want to.
27:11
Speaker 1: I want to be clack houred, not bird because there
27:16
Speaker 1: were boers. That's a real thing. That's the equal opposite reaction.
27:22
Speaker 1: You might have forced applause makes your show look good.
27:26
Speaker 1: But of course there were a lot of artists to say,
27:30
Speaker 1: that's bs. You know what I mean, that's a frame up.
27:35
Speaker 1: My work exists on its own merit, Yes, but then
27:40
Speaker 1: they becomes this this yeah, yeah, it almost is like
27:44
Speaker 1: this like racket right where you know they knew about
27:47
Speaker 1: the system, and this certain kind of like opposite contingent
27:50
Speaker 1: um of like almost sabboteurs kind of knew the game.
27:54
Speaker 1: They're like, well, we're gonna buy a bunch of tickets
27:58
Speaker 1: and pay these people to come and jeer and boo
28:01
Speaker 1: and you know, cat call and like do all kinds
28:04
Speaker 1: of things to disrupt the performance unless you pay a
28:08
Speaker 1: big you know, it really is kind of like a
28:10
Speaker 1: almost like a protection or or like what's the word
28:14
Speaker 1: collection kind of situation where it's like, be a shame
28:16
Speaker 1: if something happened to your nice play. Yes, yes, uh,
28:22
Speaker 1: this is the thing it is. It is a bit
28:24
Speaker 1: of a racket because you know, if you have this
28:28
Speaker 1: established hierarchy of people who bring cruise to clap for
28:34
Speaker 1: your shows and you don't make nice with them, you know,
28:39
Speaker 1: you don't you don't pay your due deference. Uh, then
28:44
Speaker 1: the the clack hours or what were they called the
28:48
Speaker 1: chefs dick lakhur Uh chefs think that's the full the
28:54
Speaker 1: full extended title. Yes, yeah, okay, So if you if
28:57
Speaker 1: you didn't tow the line with these folks, then they
29:02
Speaker 1: would buy the tickets themselves and they would tell ticket
29:06
Speaker 1: holders don't clap or they would say wait for this
29:10
Speaker 1: one guy and then booing. So this is like, this
29:20
Speaker 1: is mob style heckling. It's crazy that the mob is
29:26
Speaker 1: not more into this currently. I guess they have other
29:29
Speaker 1: stuff to do. Yeah, and um, and and then and
29:32
Speaker 1: then the promoters or whomever you know was hiring the
29:35
Speaker 1: clack hours, the ones that were meant to kind of
29:37
Speaker 1: big up the performance, got wise to this sort of
29:40
Speaker 1: like terrorist contingent that was coming in and started to
29:43
Speaker 1: hire like like spies or moles to sort of like
29:47
Speaker 1: infiltrate the you know, the saboteurs and figure out who
29:52
Speaker 1: was coming in there to kind of disrupt things and
29:55
Speaker 1: then issuing you know, kind of equal and opposite threats
29:59
Speaker 1: in their direct and making sure they didn't make it
30:01
Speaker 1: into the performance. It's nuts. There is so much more
30:06
Speaker 1: to the laugh track. The laugh track existed before sitcoms,
30:11
Speaker 1: before television, before radio. It's an ancient idea and Douglas
30:17
Speaker 1: leveraged it very very well. I would say, I mean, okay,
30:22
Speaker 1: let's go back to the present, NOL. When's the last
30:25
Speaker 1: time you saw a show with the laugh track? I
30:35
Speaker 1: think it was that Louis c. K Um kind of
30:39
Speaker 1: like Revival sitcom sort of parody Life with Louis or
30:43
Speaker 1: Lucky Louis right, and it had a laugh track, and
30:47
Speaker 1: or again like things like some of these adults Swim
30:49
Speaker 1: Little sketches are kind of late night shows where it's
30:52
Speaker 1: meant to make something seem dated or kind of create
30:56
Speaker 1: like a certain atmosphere. Sometimes you'll see it in you know,
31:00
Speaker 1: like um movies for example, like if you've seen the
31:03
Speaker 1: movie Nope, there's this whole subplot surrounding a sitcom called
31:08
Speaker 1: like Gordy's Home or something like that about a rangatang
31:10
Speaker 1: and you hear that, you know, when you see it
31:12
Speaker 1: played back, you know, on a screen, and it usually
31:15
Speaker 1: looks kind of like you know, has like sort of
31:17
Speaker 1: like scan lines and like very dated kind of visuals
31:20
Speaker 1: as well, and that creates this sense of a time
31:23
Speaker 1: and place. Um. But usually it's either used for that
31:25
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you know. Another good example is in
31:28
Speaker 1: the movie Natural Born Killers. There's a whole sequence where
31:32
Speaker 1: it's like this fantasy world, this sort of like really
31:35
Speaker 1: maccabre sitcom involving Mallory, the character played by Juliette Lewis
31:40
Speaker 1: and her father is this like abusive slubby you know,
31:44
Speaker 1: awful man played by Rodney Dangerfield. And in those uh sequences,
31:48
Speaker 1: there is a laugh track because it's meant to be
31:51
Speaker 1: this surrealist kind of experience where you're you feel like
31:54
Speaker 1: you're sort of placed in this sitcom. Yeah, absolutely, Uh,
31:58
Speaker 1: you know, laugh tracks subsists in a lot of British
32:03
Speaker 1: comedy way after we fell out of in in the
32:08
Speaker 1: US now there's certain form formulaic prit coms that definitely
32:13
Speaker 1: I believe it only more recently was shows like The
32:17
Speaker 1: Office you know has that have they tried to lean
32:19
Speaker 1: more into more of like a cinema verite or like
32:22
Speaker 1: kind of like documentary style. But you're right, like shows
32:25
Speaker 1: like absolutely Fabulous long after maybe not long after, but
32:29
Speaker 1: long you know after a lot of American sitcoms abandoned
32:32
Speaker 1: that you did still see it in In in British
32:35
Speaker 1: and maybe other European Uh Sig Mitchell and Webb look
32:38
Speaker 1: one of the coolest sketch shows to come out of
32:42
Speaker 1: the United Kingdom in recent years. They use the laugh track. Also, Max,
32:48
Speaker 1: you've got some opinions you've been sabotageing us this whole time. Bro.
32:53
Speaker 1: I hope you are clacking and not booing here, we'll
32:57
Speaker 1: never know, well, we will know, well, we will know eventually.
33:00
Speaker 1: Is I don't know, But I do find that funny
33:02
Speaker 1: because you go back and like watch like Seinfeld, and
33:04
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a laugh track or live
33:05
Speaker 1: audience or it's a combination. Yea, they would sweeten They
33:09
Speaker 1: would sweeten quote unquote the audience reaction that usually was
33:13
Speaker 1: triggered by some sort of sign or some again to
33:16
Speaker 1: your point, ben orchestration, and then they would sweeten it
33:18
Speaker 1: with things that made it feel more organic or like
33:20
Speaker 1: you know, adding those little kind of moments of sound
33:23
Speaker 1: design or fully work that they would do after the fact.
33:26
Speaker 1: You know, I just found it funny because it's like
33:28
Speaker 1: I think of, like, you know, I had that like,
33:31
Speaker 1: you know, I believe that when the show has a
33:33
Speaker 1: laugh track or something that I kind of just like
33:35
Speaker 1: the great a little bit. But then you think with
33:36
Speaker 1: like Seinfeld's like one of the greatest in American history,
33:39
Speaker 1: probably it's like, oh, yeah, it has that there. Yeah,
33:42
Speaker 1: it was still in that era though, you know it's
33:43
Speaker 1: still was, And honestly, it was studio executives that were
33:47
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, hooked on the stuff. They
33:50
Speaker 1: were like, no, no, no, no, we need this, you know,
33:52
Speaker 1: like Mash. For example, a lot of the creators of Mash,
33:55
Speaker 1: which which was it on location type show. It was
33:57
Speaker 1: a comedy that was about, you know, the Vietnam War,
34:00
Speaker 1: and while it was it's very funny, it also has
34:02
Speaker 1: some heavy stuff and some more drama. It really is
34:04
Speaker 1: kind of more of a drama, I guess, than like
34:06
Speaker 1: a full sitcom. The creators of that show fought pretty
34:10
Speaker 1: hard with network executives to ditch the laugh track, and
34:13
Speaker 1: they finally got to a compromise where they would only
34:17
Speaker 1: allow them, rather, the studios would only allow them to
34:19
Speaker 1: not use it during heavy moments or like, you know,
34:22
Speaker 1: things in an operating theater because Mash is about these
34:25
Speaker 1: uh you know, wartime field surgeons. So no, what you're
34:29
Speaker 1: saying is studio executives were hooked on two things, and
34:34
Speaker 1: one of them was laugh tracks. It's very funny, Max.
34:48
Speaker 1: They also like money. You know, I'm laughing, But it's true.
34:52
Speaker 1: Studio executives like things that they know work. They're not
34:55
Speaker 1: about taking risks. So it takes a lot to have
34:58
Speaker 1: a ce change in like the whole culture of television
35:02
Speaker 1: when it's been happening since the fifties. You know, they're like, no,
35:04
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, why would we change the formula? We
35:06
Speaker 1: know it works, right, Yeah, you want predictable, predictable results, right,
35:13
Speaker 1: you want measurable projections of income. And if the soul
35:19
Speaker 1: of the creative act is lost in that pursuit, a
35:23
Speaker 1: lot of people make a devil's bargain and say, so
35:26
Speaker 1: be it. So this is the thing right now, as
35:30
Speaker 1: you're listening to this episode, you're probably not hearing shows
35:35
Speaker 1: with un ironic laugh tracks. The laugh track now has
35:39
Speaker 1: become meta commentary. Uh. There's a great episode of It's
35:43
Speaker 1: Always Sunny in Philadelphia wherein they create a sitcom and
35:49
Speaker 1: show the dangers of laugh tracks. It's a very clever
35:53
Speaker 1: show and I recommend people check it out. Well, it's
35:56
Speaker 1: funny mentioning the dangers of laugh tracks. Um. There is
36:00
Speaker 1: an article on Looper the real reason TV sitcom stopped
36:03
Speaker 1: using laugh tracks the references of nineteen seventy four study
36:06
Speaker 1: that found that laugh tracks um created a sense of
36:10
Speaker 1: what's called conformity pressure in test subjects. Um. You know
36:15
Speaker 1: in The New York Times reported on these findings that
36:18
Speaker 1: compared Seinfeld with this like you know, baked in laugh
36:21
Speaker 1: track with The Simpsons, which never had a laugh track.
36:24
Speaker 1: It was it was an animated show. It was an
36:26
Speaker 1: animated sitcom. But unless I'm mistaken, the Simpsons never had
36:30
Speaker 1: a laugh track, even though it's certainly debuted during that era.
36:34
Speaker 1: The executives must have been like, oh, no, cartoons don't
36:36
Speaker 1: get laugh tracks, but UM didn't. Didn't like the flint
36:39
Speaker 1: Stones have laugh tracks, like I swear, some like old
36:42
Speaker 1: cigarette commercials. I just I don't know if that's a
36:45
Speaker 1: good basis for us. Fair enough, But my point is
36:49
Speaker 1: the study found um in Science News that when they
36:52
Speaker 1: compared reactions to Seinfeld with the laugh track to reactions
36:56
Speaker 1: to The Simpsons, there wasn't really that much of a difference,
36:59
Speaker 1: and how viewers respond bonded Um. And that's because those
37:02
Speaker 1: are also two shows that are very smartly written. So
37:06
Speaker 1: it was a band aid and a lazy tactic for
37:09
Speaker 1: shows that were more like Broad and not nearly as
37:13
Speaker 1: clever as The Simpsons are Seinfeld. So maybe the case
37:16
Speaker 1: study here is a little bit inflated or or a
37:18
Speaker 1: little bit loaded, because those are two of the most
37:20
Speaker 1: brilliant comedy shows of all time. But maybe a show
37:23
Speaker 1: like Green Acres needed the laugh track, I don't know,
37:26
Speaker 1: but then you have something called cringe comedy like the office,
37:30
Speaker 1: shows like Dirty Rock or you know, Arrested Development, Malcolm
37:34
Speaker 1: in the Middle, where a big part of the joke
37:37
Speaker 1: is not knowing whether it's okay to laugh or not
37:40
Speaker 1: not knowing whether something is actually funny or not. In
37:43
Speaker 1: fact something maybe being actively not funny and uncomfortable, and
37:47
Speaker 1: then getting diffused in some clever way. Yeah, exactly. And
37:51
Speaker 1: this is where this is where we land. If you
37:56
Speaker 1: are hearing a laugh track on a show now in
38:01
Speaker 1: two or so, then you will be hearing it ironically
38:06
Speaker 1: or you'll be looking at an earlier program. The laugh track,
38:14
Speaker 1: as it is recognized as a social cue, it met
38:19
Speaker 1: a diminishing return, you know what I mean, They're like,
38:23
Speaker 1: it's the idea in order reminds me of folks. It
38:26
Speaker 1: reminds me of the old thought experiment where you say,
38:31
Speaker 1: if I had entrance music whenever I walked into a room,
38:36
Speaker 1: what what would the music that make me received better? Yea?
38:40
Speaker 1: Or would that like? What would what would be the
38:41
Speaker 1: result there? I think a big part of this too
38:44
Speaker 1: is shows have just gotten better. Like I mean, if
38:47
Speaker 1: you if you go back and watch like an episode
38:49
Speaker 1: of Full House or Family Matters. They're just inherently dated
38:53
Speaker 1: and just a little bit corny. And then shows like
38:55
Speaker 1: The Office and Arrested Development they're just better shows. They're like,
38:59
Speaker 1: I think Sinfeld is one of the lone examples of
39:02
Speaker 1: sitcoms from the nineties that really still holds up and
39:05
Speaker 1: doesn't need the laugh track at all. In fact, you
39:07
Speaker 1: could argue Seinfeld was sort of the precursor to this
39:11
Speaker 1: cringe comedy. But in general, audiences just won't stand for
39:15
Speaker 1: things that are just like super broad and corny, and
39:18
Speaker 1: therefore maybe you could argue you have gotten smarter. I
39:22
Speaker 1: believe you, man, I am tempted to agree. I really
39:27
Speaker 1: like that. Also, you know, I think it was was
39:31
Speaker 1: it Larry David who pointed out the primary issue with Seinfeld.
39:37
Speaker 1: If cell phones existed when Seinfeld was being written, then
39:42
Speaker 1: none of those episodes would happen. And thank god, thank
39:46
Speaker 1: god they were slow with the cell phones coming out, because, man,
39:50
Speaker 1: Seinfeld is a legitimately amazing show. It's really good. I've
39:54
Speaker 1: heard that said, and I don't think I quite under
39:57
Speaker 1: Maybe I just don't know Seinfeld. You know, after in
40:00
Speaker 1: verse enough to understand is it mainly just like a
40:03
Speaker 1: lot of jokes are based around communication and like waiting
40:06
Speaker 1: for a pay phone or like somebody getting like stood up,
40:09
Speaker 1: or just you know, miscommunication, where were just like a
40:17
Speaker 1: simple text message would have solved this entire all the
40:19
Speaker 1: problems of this episode. Well you say that, but also
40:22
Speaker 1: like then you wouldn't have a show exactly knowing Larry.
40:26
Speaker 1: It would just be a recursive feedback loop of weird
40:31
Speaker 1: text messages, you know what I mean. And there there
40:35
Speaker 1: would be an episode where he learns emoji and then
40:38
Speaker 1: one where he learns gifts. It would be like hanging
40:40
Speaker 1: out with my dad. I don't know if that's the best,
40:44
Speaker 1: but I think it would apted. I think Larry David
40:47
Speaker 1: still probably uses a flip phone if I'm not if
40:50
Speaker 1: I'm not being too bold there. But what's funny when
40:52
Speaker 1: you mentioned Larry David and sort of how Curb your
40:55
Speaker 1: Enthusiasm is like a progression of Seinfeld while also still
40:59
Speaker 1: kind of king to a lot of the things that
41:01
Speaker 1: made sein felt funny Because obviously Larry was a massive,
41:04
Speaker 1: if not the biggest driver in Seinfeld. He still has
41:09
Speaker 1: this lexicon of sound cues that he uses all that's
41:13
Speaker 1: on a little do do do Do Do Do do do,
41:16
Speaker 1: which is also guiding you somehow. It's it's more clever
41:21
Speaker 1: than the literally leading you by the ear laugh track. Yeah,
41:25
Speaker 1: it's less imposing, right, it takes you. Uh, it's somewhat comfortable.
41:31
Speaker 1: It cuts your elbow instead of like grabbing the back
41:35
Speaker 1: of your neck, right, which is what a laugh track does.
41:39
Speaker 1: So the oh that's a little n lp perhaps, But
41:43
Speaker 1: at this juncture is our research associate Jeff points out,
41:47
Speaker 1: the laugh track doesn't really have a practical use other
41:52
Speaker 1: than to be commentary upon itself. It's it's strange because
41:58
Speaker 1: that pressure you were talking about earlier, man, Uh, that
42:02
Speaker 1: social conformity pressure, people clocked it. And audiences are amazingly
42:07
Speaker 1: intelligent and in no small part contrarian, you know what
42:11
Speaker 1: I mean. So if if some you don't like to
42:13
Speaker 1: feel like they're being manipulated, so the so the manipulation
42:17
Speaker 1: has to become much more um subconscious, So you can't
42:21
Speaker 1: like let people know they're being manipulated. But then you
42:24
Speaker 1: certainly have broader shows that you could argue are like
42:27
Speaker 1: less clever than I curb your enthusiasm or arrested development,
42:31
Speaker 1: and they just work in broader strokes, you know what
42:34
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, the themes are just much bigger, the
42:37
Speaker 1: acting is much bigger, the dialogue is a little more
42:40
Speaker 1: on the nose. But still even those shows you don't
42:43
Speaker 1: get to have a laugh track anymore. Those days are gone. God,
42:46
Speaker 1: I love this stuff so much. Can we end today's
42:49
Speaker 1: show with doing like a really brief sitcom bit? Can
42:53
Speaker 1: we do a sitcom bit? Only if I can? Can
42:56
Speaker 1: I do the punch line? Yeah? Do the punch line? Yeah,
42:58
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is you leave you okay, okay, okay,
43:02
Speaker 1: I got your back, alright. So um picture with us.
43:06
Speaker 1: There is a ranch style house, right, that's our wide shot.
43:12
Speaker 1: I love I love it as a ranch style that
43:14
Speaker 1: we have to have a little bit the little jingle here,
43:17
Speaker 1: like did it it did? Studio back from the commercial?
43:30
Speaker 1: Pray perfect? Okay, that's the name of our show. Back
43:34
Speaker 1: from the commercial. We'll make it shorter, um back from
43:38
Speaker 1: We'll call it back from all right, welcome to back
43:41
Speaker 1: back from and then and then in like parentheses of
43:43
Speaker 1: the commercial commercial, Yes, perfect, all right. So our scene
43:48
Speaker 1: opens on uh, Max Williams playing Max Williams. Uh. He
43:56
Speaker 1: is walking down the stairs, because there's always as out
44:00
Speaker 1: of stairs in the background behind the couch, Max, you
44:03
Speaker 1: walked in, Max Williams, attorney at law. Max Williams, attorney
44:08
Speaker 1: at law. Yes, and uh so. Max Williams, attorney at
44:11
Speaker 1: law walks down from the stairs weirdly, has a suit
44:15
Speaker 1: like he's going to court. And he sits on the
44:18
Speaker 1: couch and he says, Benjamin, where did you put the
44:21
Speaker 1: orange juice today? Where didn't I put it? Uh says
44:33
Speaker 1: ben walking from the kitchen. And then I come in
44:37
Speaker 1: and I go, where's my orange juice? And then everyone
44:45
Speaker 1: can say they freak out, they lose their mind. I
44:49
Speaker 1: think that's the you know, because I'm a fool. I
44:51
Speaker 1: can I just say that I enter a room and
44:53
Speaker 1: I say, where's my orange juice? And it just so
44:56
Speaker 1: happens that at dovetail with y'all's conversation about orange, you
45:00
Speaker 1: have a couple of orange juice in your hand because
45:03
Speaker 1: I've I've misplaced it. But I'm just such a buffoon
45:05
Speaker 1: that I don't know that I'm not holding my hand. Okay, Wayne,
45:09
Speaker 1: In scenario soft at it, we all are holding glasses
45:13
Speaker 1: of orange juice while we are talking about this boom
45:18
Speaker 1: done end credits. This is all Big Orange. That's right, folks,
45:39
Speaker 1: we've brought to you yeah, Big Orange. But also, like
45:43
Speaker 1: another fun trope and sitcoms and certain echelon of television
45:47
Speaker 1: and movies is when people have cups of stuff, they're
45:50
Speaker 1: usually empty, and they the physics of people handling those
45:54
Speaker 1: cups just doesn't line up with the reality of carrying
45:57
Speaker 1: a cup of either hot or cold liquid a hundred percent.
46:02
Speaker 1: So we hope you enjoyed this exploration of the history
46:06
Speaker 1: of laugh tracks. Please let us know your favorite examples
46:10
Speaker 1: of it. Uh, please let us know times that you
46:13
Speaker 1: thought a laugh track could have been used or time
46:17
Speaker 1: a laugh track should not have been used. As always,
46:20
Speaker 1: thanks to our number one sponsored Big Orange Juice. Thanks
46:25
Speaker 1: to also to Mr Max Williams super producer Alex Williams,
46:30
Speaker 1: who could pose the track. Oh my gosh, no, we're
46:33
Speaker 1: doing the ending credits right. This is like introducing the characters.
46:38
Speaker 1: They're losing their mind. It's sort of like at the
46:40
Speaker 1: end of certain sitcoms you'd almost or maybe there were
46:43
Speaker 1: special episodes of sitcoms where they show the studio audience
46:47
Speaker 1: and then the cast would kind of come out and
46:49
Speaker 1: take a bow. That's what's happening right now. Um, Christopher
46:52
Speaker 1: haciotes here in spirit. His ghostly form wafts across the
46:57
Speaker 1: sound stage. There is uh and and we have a
47:01
Speaker 1: we we have a candid look up at the camera
47:05
Speaker 1: and pause moment for Eve's Jeff coat. Uh. You know,
47:10
Speaker 1: you know you just caught me hanging out. Jonathan Strickling.
47:13
Speaker 1: The Quister's bald head pops up from behind the couch,
47:15
Speaker 1: making a sinister glare, and he has the orange he's
47:19
Speaker 1: had of the whole time. Yeah, the whole time. We're done.
47:21
Speaker 1: We're done, See you next time, folks. For more podcasts
47:32
Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
47:34
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.