Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Cultivating Whole Families, Not Perfect Ones: Enneagram Wisdom with Sonja Scott

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Cultivating Whole Families, Not Perfect Ones: Enneagram Wisdom with Sonja Scott · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: As we're just two episodes in to this new series and the new podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to be focused on the overall topic of our series, which is understanding how the Enneagram can help us do a better job of steering through relational issues, connection, growing in our faith, all the different things that we long for transformation.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we're specifically going to be talking about things that you're not going to find answers in through AI or even the Instagram hot takes.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or at least we're going to take some time to unpack what those hot takes are all about.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for Sonia to join us today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're just going to be talking about what it looks like to utilize the Enneagram for a whole family, really as a whole person, in order to offer the invitation to those that we are either raising, living with, or who we've launched to invite them to this process of a whole family.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so before we jump in, I just want to invite you as you're listening, or maybe you're watching here on YouTube and you've been running and gunning today.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've been just going to and fro, or maybe you're on a walk or doing the dishes.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to invite you to just take a breath, to take a breather, to take a pause and ask the Lord what He wants you to receive from this conversation today.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And as you pause, I want to give you permission to hear to turn it off and just stay in silence or turn on some worship music instead.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or to just maybe even sit and receive with a cup of hot coffee or tea, or sit out in the backyard and receive whatever wisdom comes forth today.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So as we dive in, just take that minute, take that moment to pause and breathe deeply and just tune in and here.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: With that, I want to introduce this friend of mine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We have gotten to work together for a while now.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: You may have heard her story before, and I'll link to those past conversations and podcast episodes so you can get to know a little bit more.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what I love is I got to know Sonya during the COVID years, during the years where we weren't necessarily meeting in person.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that led me to create some online events where she and I got to meet each other.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And through that, we got to walk, literally walk together through an app called Boxer.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have many shared conversations that I remember clearly in those early days of 2021.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been through a lot and traversed a lot together.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just been honored to be that guide and also have a front row seat into the growth, the transformation, the aha's, the way the Lord's has led her through these last few years.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So with that, Sonia, what I wanted to start out with was people have heard some of your story maybe before.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: They can listen to the old podcast episodes where you shared some of your story.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that was a recent win or an experience that you had that had you go, oh yeah, that's why I use Enneagram.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for this tool.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I just can't get rid of it because it's helping me in this or that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's, I feel like the Enneagram has become such a part of my life that it's not something I'm not using for the most part.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if I were to think of a specific story, actually two come to mind, but I'll just tell one.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually is about my daughter, a younger daughter, Amy, that I pulled her out of school at the end of, not the end of November of last year.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're coming up on a year anniversary of us deciding we're gonna pull her out of school.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Jump into homeschooling.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I made that decision and as I walked through it with her, it helped significantly to understand the Enneagram and how she was experiencing her classroom.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I've spent, she was 11 turning 12 at the time.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a lot of factors, but spending 11 years of her life being a student and just watching how she makes her way through life and interacts with adults and the things that cause her stress, it was really me seeing her through the lens of the dutiful stance at the Enneagram that gave me perspective around for her experience in that classroom, why it was so stressful.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I knew how to advocate for her.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I knew what I was advocating for and asking the school for.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I also knew that what I was asking for was now outside of the realm of what should be or could be expected in a classroom.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Her reaction to the things that were happening really led to, I guess, really filled out the idea of a dutiful stance for me.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then some of her anxiousness and I literally could think back to when she was like five years old and some of those things.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm right now we're leaning towards her main type being a six.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I think about that personality type, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: If I think about that and what that entails and what she was going through then, and then look back to when she was even just five and the way that she was showing up under stress, it just gave me a lot of tools to advocate and words to use to put some skin or clothes on what was happening to her because it was very emotional and hard to grasp, I think, for the school.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be one of the most poignant wins with the NEAM.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's but there are just day-to-day and moment by moment things that pop up that I'm like, oh my goodness, this makes so much sense because I understand the way you think or how you're responding in this situation.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh, I agree.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Day in and day out, I find myself sometimes biting my tongue because I want to say something to somebody that points out this Enneagram type goes here in stress, or oh, that's an that's a a sign of self-sabotage in this personality paradigm, all the different things, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I love, I'm gonna give a little note here to our friend who's listening and is going, you said something dutiful stance.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean exactly?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And just a quick rundown.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's three communication patterns, and we'll probably be talking more about that in this series at some point.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: But the three patterns are assertive, dutiful, and withdrawn.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And those three patterns really give us a clear picture of how we observe people making their way through the world and also how we tend to in engaging or choosing not to engage with others.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just a fantastic tool, especially when we think about using Enneagram with families, which leads me to this next idea about you using Enneagram and your calling and this coaching process that you're going through.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you and I behind the scenes, we're always still learning what that looks like, what the Lord is having us do and how it manifests itself during certain chapters of our life, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: You just got through saying you had homeschooled your daughter.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So business and coaching and work looked very different.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But as you think about using Enneagram with family and this I concept of whole families, tell us a little bit about the why in that.
• 8:56
  unknown: Okay.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: That I think the why is the all and really all encompasses who I am and how I show up in the world, how I come to relationship in my own family as well as in communication with individuals and their families.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I back in 2004 worked on and completed a master's degree in family and marriage counseling.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, the Lord had impressed upon me the importance of family.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can all, I think we live in a society and in a culture where we're all like family's important, family first, blood's thicker than water, all of those wonderful, wonderful things that make us feel like we're part of something, right?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: We all want to be part of something.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that I believe is a desire that God put inside of us.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that began back in Genesis with Adam and Eve when they were the first marriage, and then they went on to be fruitful and multiply.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you look at the world and the state of where we are, I know back when I was deciding on this degree, it was there was a lot of divorce, a lot of broken families.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was my wholehearted belief that even at that time, so young, yeah, no family, no marriage, but that if we could get families whole, if we could get families built on strong foundations, beginning with strong marriages, and then that just flowing, flowing downward, that there would be a lot of change in everything, everything in the society, right?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when people come from whole and healthy families, I think there's gonna be less hurt, less crime, less hurt people out in the world to hurt people.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: It all began there, and then of course I had my own family, and then having the distance from my family of origin and seeing how that worked, and being able to see the benefit of being in that family, and then also maybe some of the challenges and how working with the Enneagram can help us get to a point of not just our own self-awareness and wholeness, but bringing that into the family unit will allow for, I think, healthier families, a more holistic approach to the family unit.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And even our point before about the communication pattern, if we can have you have this insight about your daughter that she may not totally have language for even understanding herself at her age.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because we do want to be aware that depending on the age and maturity of our kids, they may not have that total insight, right, around dominant type and communication pattern, but that is something we can observe.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so with that lens, you were able to advocate for your daughter in a way that maybe otherwise you wouldn't have had language for or a posture for to understand.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: You had to get out of your comfort zone as a withdrawn type to engage and assert yourself to be able to get what she ultimately needed.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was gonna say.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is and also the patience for because withdrawn type is also heart type, withdrawn type, emotional, dealing with the level of emotion that she was putting out and being able to do, I guess, discern really.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Enneagram gave me a leg up in discerning that this wasn't some people would have called them temper tantrums or she's a preteen.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and those are things that, like I said, there are there are a lot of factors that were included, but one of the one of the overarching things that just I guess came up and kept coming through from back even when she was much younger, was how unsettled she was in the environment.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about dutiful stance, I talk about doing life with people and then the security that comes with that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically what I learned is that she was feeling very insecure in the environment, which was of course an emotional experience for her.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it I if I think about not having the Enneagrams, let's try to do that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take the Enneagram ones off.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I just brought me to the table without that knowledge.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I see myself wanting to take my lens and put it on her head.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: My way of being, my way of seeing what she was going through and convincing her, trying to convince her that was the truth.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's your experience, not what you're actually experiencing.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a risk of that a lot as a parent, wanting to tell our kids what they see, or for sure.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes projecting onto them what our experience is or has been.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I feel and what else are you supposed to do?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're either one of my things is more is caught than taught.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so oftentimes you model or you go off of what you already know.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: But with the Enneagram, you get an opportunity to see clearly the person in front of you.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: What a beautiful point.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Really, the idea we're talking about here is putting being able to put yourself in the shoes of your child in a way that is transformative for you because you can not only validate, but you can actually then advocate from their perspective, not just ours.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because what's true is you probably would have navigated that situation differently as a student when you were younger, not, you know, not just because of different decade and different overlays, but the reality, your personality would have encountered that situation differently.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Your lens would have looked different, and just even to the point of you you have two girls.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're going to respond differently to those environments.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It could be the same exact situation, but oh my god, different.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, we could talk about that a long time.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: The two of you, I don't know what to do sometimes.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're all nodding our head.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tell us, Sonia, because what is it?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: How do you utilize that just in your own home?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about a bigger picture of inviting dads and moms to this whole family vision.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: But what does it look like for you in the day-to-day with your girls?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I will say one of the things I love about the Enneagram is its nuance, right?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can tell you that both my girls, I believe at this point, are in the dutiful stance.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But what that looks like coming from their individual type and who they are is completely different.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll share the story as best I can from this morning.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: But keeping the names of the innocent.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, protecting the names.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was it's something actually very kind of basic story.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have obviously two different girls, one's 16, one's 12.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: We were going to school, and yearly, this is my aha moment of the day.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like yearly, I one of them for sure is just not wanting to go to school.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: At a certain point during the school year, it's just this is not for me.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who made this thing up, but why do I have to?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And all of us parents who take kids to school, we're like, yep, we have those days too.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be my younger one.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: My older one, she can be in the car with me right up to drop off.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't want to do this today.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really want to go to school today.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's grabbing her backpack.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I just don't want to be here.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Closing the door.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Love you.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: She walks on, she goes to school.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, once my younger one decides school is not the place she wants to be, it's quite a different response.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to think of that this morning.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's she's not the what's different about what she's doing, how she's expressing it, is there's emotion.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: She's reacting, she's reactive to what's happening, to her feeling of not wanting to go.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas my older daughter is verbalizing, she's a verbal processor to the max.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's letting me know with awareness, but I have to do this.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna keep putting one foot in front of the other.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: My other daughter is the waterworks and the big deal.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like what she's feeling is very real for her, and she is she's giving it to me.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So now how I respond in those situations, this is the most Yeah, it's the key.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is right, we all know this, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: The key is how do we respond?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do we share our calm or do we meet them in their, I'm gonna say crazy, Lord forgive me, but do we share our calm or do we meet them where they're at?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a muscle to exercise for me because I can also be a little reactive in my emotional responses, which never works out very well when there's two of us like that, right?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So with her this morning, all this is happening, and I'm so grateful because I have all these little like Tetris blocks coming together of why this is happening the way that it's happening, and not getting elevated and like allowing the frustration to take over, knowing this is just genuinely she's frustrated, and I'm gonna know it.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Through these tears and this reaction, I ended up saying to her as she's crying on the way to school, I know I can see this is hard for you, but I know you can do hard things.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just left it there, and she stopped crying, put her shoes on, got out of the car.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's amazing because it wasn't until I like, and when she does, like I can feel everything in me getting like activated, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Activated is the word.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting activated, and by the gift of the Holy Spirit and the Lord, this morning was a win.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up having to take her clothes back to her.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I shortly shared the story with the lady at the front desk, four of mourning, there's some tears.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I even gave her a summary of what I just gave you, and she's wow, you handled that so well.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh no, no, I got lots of experience.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, and number two, I have a hack.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a hack that allows me to see and have a lens for how this child's lens is working and how she's making it through, and how this, and not compare them because then I don't I'm not expecting them based off of one, the Lord giving me the wisdom, raise children in the way they should, which means it should be different, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're different people, but also the Enneagram has allowed me to see this lens, this child one thing, this lens, this child, maybe something different, and uh take my time in responding, knowing what I just slows things down a little bit as far as being reactive or activated.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've I'll keep saying, I guess, again and again, like I've spent a long time being a student and getting it wrong and sometimes getting it right.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And today won't be the last day.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there'll be tears.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't find some magic key, but I can say that there's a lot to be gained from being able to meet your child where they are.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so good.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's rich.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it does take work.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you use a phrase I love to say is being a student of your child, be a student of your children.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And each one is different, each one's unique.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, because to your point, I have a kid for sure.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they're telling me they can't go and they just can't do it, I go, Oh, let's take a personal health day.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: It happens once or twice a year.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when they say, I'm like, okay, well, we I know that this is real and you really need that moment.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just that's little things like that are so helpful in knowing your kids.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times it can run very true to communication patterns, personality types, but then also ultimately just being attuned to your kids' hearts, which I know we're gonna talk more about with Dr.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Jara Cunningham Nelson or Dr.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Jara Nelson Cunningham.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have to get that.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I always just call her Jara behind the scenes.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm out of practice on that one.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk more about the attachment and the attunement and all that, because that is a really valuable element too.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: In this idea of being attuned, understanding your kids, one of the things that I have noticed, and I'm going to probably bring this up regularly because it's part of the theme of the series.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that is I've just noticed more and more people are getting advice off of social media.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like whether hopefully other people join me, or there's a lot of other people that I don't know about, but I need to beat the drum of, hey, wait a minute.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Social media is fun, social media can be great.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love using it to share quick little snippets and tidbits and funny things.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, I think there needs to be a lot of caution about what we learn from social media and how we take it either as truth or advice.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Again, people I know getting diagnosed.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: From social media or just making some big live changes based off what they are getting and what the algorithm is feeding them.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because to be fair, it usually takes a while.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just one post that changes someone's mind, but a number of them.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And social media can either work for you or against you in that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: But as you've been a participant, or as you've evaluated what you're sharing to your community versus what is out there, what does it look like?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you see as a myth or a hot take that you're like, oh, wait a minute, you want to throw up the caution flag and go, have you fact-checked that, or are you really going to make some decisions or rules of engagement based off that information?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that question.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that comes to mind for me, and it's it's maybe the information they're getting, but also by the very act of being on a computer or being on your phone by yourself.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing that the hot take or that we've all bought into to one degree or another is that this is solitary, it's work that you can do by yourself.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Siloed.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you feel safe with that because it's you and the computer, it's you and the phone.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's isolating, right?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't believe that we were, and this is coming from a withdrawn type, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who's a self-proclaimed introvert?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe we were put here to do this work alone.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe we're put here to enjoy this life alone.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think there are a lot of helpers out there in the world who, yes, they're getting their information out there quickly through Instagram or TikTok or, and that's great.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great tipping point.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great, very tip top of the iceberg.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: But when you start to share your life, or you're starting to even to your for yourself come to the realization that there's things that that you need help with or that you need to work on, that can only be a starting point because the sounding board of another voice or the inflection of the tone of voice and the even the way that we're trained to ask questions is very unique.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And having a God by the side, someone come in who can hear your story and also hear things in your story that you are blind to is it's a benefit that you can't get from a hot take, or you can't get from I'll say for certain, not that my Instagram page is the one to follow for all the info.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: However, it is just it's just the tip of the iceberg.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know in relationship we're consistently looking for more from our spouses or boyfriends, or we want more connection.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really counterintuitive if you're if you're using the internet social media to work through more intimate, pressing issues that need a human voice.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of that, on top of all that, this work is, I believe, something you're called to do.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there is no Holy Spirit within that phone or Holy Spirit within that computer.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: There is a discernment that comes through hearing that I don't think can penetrate any other way.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's not solitary work.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it isn't but oh, Susan says it's solitary work that can't be done alone.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's good.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good quote.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that one.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: We need someone to reflect.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been working on a book behind the scenes actually, and it's a little bit of a rewrite, but it's really a new work.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I was just sharing some of those experiences of helping people find their dominant Enneagram type and ultimately saying things back in incarnational listening method, right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Receiving their story, hearing what they're saying, and saying it back to the best of my ability, verbatim, or sometimes a summary, right?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: If if needed, because sometimes it could be a 20-minute story and better for me to reflect back in two minutes.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: That suddenly something comes from hearing your own words said by someone else.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or your the perspective you just shared reflected to suddenly have it dawn on you.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's the shape that I saw things.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's the shade I saw things.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really powerful process that you cannot get from AI or social media.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be reflected to you.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's the mirroring and then it's the um it's the nonverbals.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's the right I hear you, and the shaking of the head and the nod or the head to the side or the leaning in, like that all adds up to create to create the rapport and relationship you need to do this work.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And many times tears are at the surface, and I see them shining in this person's eyes, or just quietly dripping down.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that I would only it you would only get time to pause there with a person because a person's going to receive that, acknowledge it, and go, okay, tell me about that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: This moves you, or something about this touches you, or it brings joy or sorrow.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: It connects us to the humanity.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I say this again, like in our world today, we've lost this sense of respecting humanity.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and we it's it almost feels like when you do it the other way, it's okay.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: I put my money in the snack machine, I pick what I want, it comes out because I'm guilty.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guilty of it.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guilty of it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, chat GPT, this is my problem.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just spit back it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, holy moly.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it feels so transactional, and that's how we've come to do life in so many areas.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's quick, it's fast, let's get it done.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is an area where you owe it to yourself to slow down for a person to respond.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: A AI has or your AI that you have used has been trained to be your echo chamber to mostly affirm, yeah, condone at best.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it just doesn't have that opportunity where I know part of my job as a coach is to not be nice.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, to create space, yes, to create care.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you, even you and I have talked about this, where I've been, okay, Sonia, I heard this, but and where I do, I try to call it a gentle nudge, sometimes not as gentle as other times, but that direct push because Holy Spirit in me, Holy Spirit in you can work through that process together by either I confirm or bring about something new, and then you can receive and also go through your own discernment process.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because similarly, just because I say it, and same with any coach or counselor therapist, we should be all bringing in more discernment to really consider is this the best thing for me?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And do I have a where two or more are gathered kind of philosophy where there's agreement for my best move in growing or advocating for the right things or bringing about healing and restoration in our relationship?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know that we've touched the tip of the iceberg in a lot of things, and we could keep going for hours.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: But for you, I'd love to just hear what you would say to the woman and might think of some of your clients that you've worked with, those who have considered coaching or really those who are feeling stuck, they're frustrated, they're overwhelmed, whether it's regarding their own personal growth or their desire to see their family more whole and to be thriving in relationship.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: How would you encourage her today?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of advice and counsel would you offer?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the scariest step is always the first one.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: The one right before you find your God, the one where you have to decide, am I worth it?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is my family worth it?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Am I desperate enough?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have does our family have an I hate to use this word, but I'm gonna use it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: But does our family have an identified patient that is crying out loud enough for us to take this next step?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I encourage you not to wait until that cry is so loud that you feel like you have no other choice.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But there there are options.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are people, obviously, us wholehearted coaches who want to walk side by side with you.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hold your hand and walk with you towards the voice of God and knowing that you you are already at the center of his heart, that his plan for you was to hear this message today, or maybe another message that you've heard from Amy.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's again no harder step than the very first one.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've been there, I've walked it, I've lived the prideful life of I can handle this, I can get through this.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's even it's funny, even going through counseling degree and becoming a coach.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's that moment of am I going to open myself up to this process?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to take that first step?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no greater investment for your family than for you to say yes to that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: It will, it is, it has changed my family's life.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's changed the way that I show up as a mom.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's changed the way I show up in my marriage.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's even reflected back to me and what my family has gained from the experience of not walking with the Lord first, of course, but then the knowledge that the Enneagram has brought into our lives has really transformed all the relationships in my home.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I spoke very clearly about parenting with the girls, but with my husband, it's just given so much perspective and shed so much light on areas where we were stuck.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: We just kept doing the same dance.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And no, we haven't got out of all the dances, crazy cycles, right?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we are finding our way out in a new way.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is just a new way, a new tool, an opportunity to come to know ourselves better, and an opportunity to just and again not try to take my lens and put it on his eyes or be offended by his lens.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big one.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: This that is a big one.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Take some of the offense out of how this human being is showing up.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think I answered what you read.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's so good.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I even think of neutralize.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: I work with teams, couples, families, all of that, but it can be a neutralizer where suddenly I even recently there was a friendship situation and being able to understand because she realized, oh, I thought I was looking through this lens all along.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really looking through that lens.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that helped her see the difference of where she was coming from versus her friend.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it just neutralized the situation.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: It took some of the stink out of it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: It led opportunity for better, more fruitful conversation in the end.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: That was really powerful.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I know there's a lot of things that you could have said that you didn't say.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So before we talk about how people can find you and take that next step, because sometimes, to be fair, I forget.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I very comfortably hop on a discovery call because I'm curious.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I, and for me, on the other side, when people book a clarity call with me or a typing conversation, I'm like, this is awesome.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: New people.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: But for some people like you, Sonia, that's a big leap of faith, a leap of trust and all of that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I would just have to say, I have spent a lot of time making sure those calls are beautiful and wonderful and painless.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know my coaches have done the same thing because I've helped provide resources and training and we talk about all the time how this is done.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we make it really delightful.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So just want to put that clarifier.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: But is there anything else that has been on your heart about this concept of whole families, whole parenting, whole marriage for you that you want to make sure that you share before we finish?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I just I just want to again circle back to taking it back to really looking at God's intention with the family and with marriage and what he, when he created us as humans, his purpose in that was that we wouldn't be here on earth alone.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that the big thing for me right now, especially she's 16, but getting ready to go out into the world, I'm I'm thinking legacy a lot.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: My orientation to time is the past.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've told you that when I'm doing things in the present, I'm doing them with the intention of them being remembered well.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that my family of four, we are at a beautiful crossroads of the crisis of faith that my husband and I had, and the way that we've been able to raise our family through that is set a trajectory that's a little bit different.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so eager to see what the Lord's gonna do with it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I again believe that one family at a time, one marriage at a time, that this world will be and can be a better place for all of us to live in.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's something we can do alone.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I there's there's not a real playbook, let's be honest.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: We don't get married and get the handbook for marriage and then have children and get the handbook for and all of our children are gonna be just like this if we follow all these rules.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is so nuanced that without, and thank God that He has put guides and counselors and people with wisdom that have gone before us or that have or studied and that can walk with us as we go through it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think my bigot is find your somebody.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Find your somebody who can help your family, who can help you, who you trust, who has the wisdom, who is God fearing to do this journey with, because it's not for the faint of heart, and the enemy is eager and it's evidence all around us, and that is the thing that hit me, and I know it was a correlation with faith and my degree back when I was 19, 20 years old.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: When we were babies and had no idea.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, oh, and it was so evident to me, I had no idea, but I knew there was purpose in this work, and I knew that the Lord would be pleased and that it would fulfill uh be a part of fulfilling the call of my life to be able to walk with people through the hard things of marriage and family.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be honest, it's a lot of hard, and there's a lot of good, but the heart is not supposed to be done alone.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, beautifully said, Sonia.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just know you, and these are the kind of conversations that we have behind the scenes, and these are the words that you share that come from your heart.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I love this.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I pray that every person who's supposed to hear this will and be moved and encouraged, that they don't have to do it alone.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a siloed work, that the Enneagram can be a great tool to help, but also use the Enneagram with others, whether you jump into some sort of small group cohort that one of my coaches lead, one-on-one coaching, the other resources, obviously, gobs of podcasts, but use these really the tool as a tool of wisdom by not just getting facts, but getting information that will help you take steps for transformation when paired with the Holy Spirit, when paired with the gospel, we really can see growth.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sonia, where can we find you uh to learn more, to maybe even book that call that we're a little nervous about, but I know you're gonna offer a safe space for.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best way would be Iamough.com.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a play on Enneagram.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's spelled E-N-N-E-A-N-O-U-G-H.com.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am on Instagram with on under I am any enough.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's I think that's oh and on your website, correct?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: You are on my website, yes.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: We will be sure to link to all of those in the show notes in the description below so that way you can connect with Sonia.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: So now as we wrap up, I gave you a couple of ideas or summaries, highlights of what we talked about today.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: But just like we started this conversation, I want to invite you to take a minute before you queue up the next YouTube video or the next podcast, even if it's mine, to take a minute to pause, to reflect, and notice again, maybe what was highlighted.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Notice what was meant for you today, and make an intention to take that next step.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it doesn't have to be a call, but it might be to have a conversation or to take some time to learn more about yourself or pray, Lord, help me remember to see life through my child's, my husband's perspective, maybe it's a sister or a friend, so that way I can engage in a more honoring way to this relationship and what you have.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.