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Fantastic Four (2005) v. Superman the Movie (1978) · May The Review Be With You

0:00
Speaker 1: Like, my wife apparently is like super into that movie.
0:02
Speaker 1: She just really loves the idea of the Silver Server
0:05
Speaker 1: for some.
0:05
Speaker 2: Reason, the Silver Surfer and the new fantastic Force of Woman.
0:09
Speaker 1: So she's weirdly not as excited about that one. How
0:14
Speaker 1: about that?
0:15
Speaker 2: For Joe, Hello.
0:20
Speaker 1: And welcome to May the Review be with you.
0:24
Speaker 2: I'm Joe and I'm Nick, And today we are getting
0:29
Speaker 2: ready for this big July battle at the box office
0:33
Speaker 2: between Fantastic four First Steps and James Gunn's Superman. And
0:37
Speaker 2: to prepare, we're excited to revisit to previous iterations of
0:42
Speaker 2: these films. That would be nineteen seventy eight Superman the
0:47
Speaker 2: movie and the two thousand and five Fantastic Four film.
0:52
Speaker 2: So we just both recently recently rewatched these films and
0:56
Speaker 2: we're excited to kind of talk about about both of
0:59
Speaker 2: those and of course things to look forward to and
1:03
Speaker 2: these new iterations that are coming out next month gonna
1:07
Speaker 2: be crazy. And yeah, Joe, thoughts.
1:10
Speaker 1: How you doing, dude, I'm so hyped for July. I
1:14
Speaker 1: freaking can't wait. Like I mean, if you've been listening
1:18
Speaker 1: to this show, then you know that we're both simps
1:21
Speaker 1: for the superhero genre. Despite what our podcast name is,
1:25
Speaker 1: I feel like I almost sent more hard for either
1:28
Speaker 1: a DC or a Marvel movie, and we're getting two
1:33
Speaker 1: of the like the backbones of those franchises. You know,
1:37
Speaker 1: hence why we're interested in talking about this what I'm
1:41
Speaker 1: calling you know, this meta battle between superheroes at the
1:45
Speaker 1: box office. Right, Like you've got Fantastic four First Steps,
1:48
Speaker 1: You've got Superman. But like, what I find like so
1:50
Speaker 1: fascinating about this, nick is so Marvel is in a
1:55
Speaker 1: precarious place right now, Right, Marvel is in this spot.
1:59
Speaker 1: Where was this juggernaut at the box office? Right, Like,
2:02
Speaker 1: not only was it like killing DC at the box office,
2:05
Speaker 1: it was killing everybody at the box office right endgame happened,
2:09
Speaker 1: It was at this peak, and then the pandemic happened
2:12
Speaker 1: and everything was chaos, right And since then, it feels
2:16
Speaker 1: like there hasn't been like a Marvel movie that's just
2:19
Speaker 1: dominated the box office, right, And there's been this question
2:24
Speaker 1: are superheroes done at the box office? Well, Thunderbolts came out,
2:28
Speaker 1: and it feels like, by at least superhero fans, that
2:31
Speaker 1: was well received, but it did not do gangbusters at
2:35
Speaker 1: the box office. Right, So It's still a bit of
2:37
Speaker 1: a question. Is it over for superheroes? Is Marvel's like
2:41
Speaker 1: claim to the throne over? So here we are in July.
2:45
Speaker 1: Can Marvel reclaim that throne? Or can DC starting out
2:50
Speaker 1: its universe yet again with Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy
2:54
Speaker 1: Darling James gunn At the Helm take over and have
2:58
Speaker 1: a new superhero king ruling the box office? Or is
3:01
Speaker 1: it truly over for both of these franchises and we
3:04
Speaker 1: are entering a new age of cinema. I don't know.
3:07
Speaker 1: I am really excited about these films though, Nick, and
3:10
Speaker 1: I am really excited about everything that's happening on the
3:13
Speaker 1: business side of this. Right, Yeah, this is.
3:18
Speaker 2: Man. You just summed it up perfectly. So James Guns Superman,
3:24
Speaker 2: I have to imagine is going to be just bigger
3:28
Speaker 2: than the Fantastic Four and the next phase of what
3:32
Speaker 2: the MCU is doing because it's Superman. The IP itself
3:36
Speaker 2: is just gigantic, right, Fantastic Four has its place and
3:41
Speaker 2: the four or awesome, but Superman is of course Superman
3:45
Speaker 2: and this is the beginning of the new DC. So
3:49
Speaker 2: I think people are going to be way more intrigued
3:51
Speaker 2: on what James Guns DC actually looks like, right, this
3:56
Speaker 2: is the first test, real test for him and for them.
4:00
Speaker 2: And of course, like Marvel's like had a couple still
4:03
Speaker 2: fun movies here in this phase. Thunderbolts was probably the
4:08
Speaker 2: best thing they've done in a while. It was fantastic,
4:11
Speaker 2: but like you said, not a gangbuster box office hit.
4:15
Speaker 2: So where does that leave Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four is
4:19
Speaker 2: a lot more well known. This is now the third
4:21
Speaker 2: time they're making this franchise. People know Fantastic Four. I
4:26
Speaker 2: think that casting is really excellent. I think that helps
4:30
Speaker 2: get people in. There was a little bit of a
4:32
Speaker 2: there was a little bit of a after credit scene
4:34
Speaker 2: in Thunderbolts to get us ready for this film in
4:36
Speaker 2: the Fantastic Four, which we always love when Marvel does
4:39
Speaker 2: that properly. So I think Fantastic Four probably does better
4:43
Speaker 2: than Thunderbolts. Does it beat Superman? I think it's gonna
4:48
Speaker 2: be tough, but movie wise, which one's going to be
4:53
Speaker 2: better either way? Today we're talking about the Ogs, if
4:58
Speaker 2: you will, and really excited to kind of dive in there. Joe,
5:03
Speaker 2: is there anything you want to add before we get
5:05
Speaker 2: into nineteen seventy eight Superman?
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, I mean, I guess just to put more
5:11
Speaker 1: like drama into this battle right of of the box office,
5:15
Speaker 1: these two titans, right, I think what's again, what's so
5:18
Speaker 1: fascinating about it is like what I mentioned earlier. It's
5:20
Speaker 1: like it's back to these basics, right. I mean you
5:24
Speaker 1: have the Fantastic Four that are considered Marvel's first family, right,
5:28
Speaker 1: and then you have Superman, as you were bringing up, right,
5:31
Speaker 1: who comes with all this lore and mythos. He's the
5:34
Speaker 1: man of tomorrow. Right when you think of like Flagship
5:37
Speaker 1: d C, it's it's big blue, right, It's it's him.
5:41
Speaker 1: It's Superman, Man of Steel. And yeah, I just I
5:45
Speaker 1: can't think of a better way for Marvel and DC
5:49
Speaker 1: to like duke out this like battle for supremacy at
5:53
Speaker 1: the box office. I mean, like not only like has
5:55
Speaker 1: DC you know, tried to capture some Marvel's magic by
5:58
Speaker 1: you know, taking James Gunn. James guns taken some of
6:01
Speaker 1: the visual effects teams from Marvel over to DC to
6:04
Speaker 1: help him work on Superman as well. So like there's
6:08
Speaker 1: a lot of like almost bad blood here. Maybe bad
6:11
Speaker 1: Blot's a little too dramatic, but like you get what
6:13
Speaker 1: I'm going for. Here right, Like there's a lot of
6:16
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's incest too weird, yes, but there's
6:20
Speaker 1: there's a lot there's there's a lot of anticipation. There's
6:23
Speaker 1: a lot of I guess some some team grabbing, right,
6:29
Speaker 1: some talent grabbing from DC over into Marvel, And I
6:32
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm just I'm super hyped. I will say, though, Nick,
6:35
Speaker 1: you did hurt my heart when you said Fantastic four
6:38
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, because it just realized that that
6:39
Speaker 1: movie is twenty years old, and I remember when that
6:43
Speaker 1: movie came out.
6:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, like it's actually my first
6:48
Speaker 2: thought while watching was like this still holds up and
6:50
Speaker 2: is actually really really really well done. It's a really
6:53
Speaker 2: good superhero.
6:55
Speaker 1: You know. I will I'm not gonna go that far
6:57
Speaker 1: when we review it, but I will say it is
7:00
Speaker 1: way better than I remember. It was way better.
7:03
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like I think I was still remembering
7:05
Speaker 2: the most recent Fantastic Four film, which was atrocious.
7:08
Speaker 1: So that is a bad movie.
7:09
Speaker 2: When you go into the original Fantastic Four and you're
7:13
Speaker 2: thinking of the remake, you're immediately surprised at how well
7:16
Speaker 2: they did comparatively.
7:19
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, I do want to talk more
7:22
Speaker 1: about Fantastic Four, but it does feel like we should
7:24
Speaker 1: start with, you know, the granddaddy of them all, the
7:27
Speaker 1: original superhero at the box office. Yes, we're talking about
7:31
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eights Superman, the movie starring Christopher Reeves and
7:36
Speaker 1: Gene Hackman Lex Luthor. I forgot Marlon Brando's in this movie,
7:41
Speaker 1: and he's like billed as like one of like the
7:42
Speaker 1: principal stars, but like he's in the movie for like
7:45
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen minutes before he checks out, and.
7:47
Speaker 2: Then his voice later, yeah, his voice of yeah, well
7:50
Speaker 2: times later. Yeah.
7:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like the movie, like, I don't want to say
7:54
Speaker 1: it made a big deal about him being in it,
7:56
Speaker 1: but like you see Marlon Brando's name, You're like, oh, crap,
7:59
Speaker 1: I didn't remember she was in this movie. Oh and
8:01
Speaker 1: then yeah, he's really not that consequential, right, But yeah,
8:08
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight Christopher Reeves Superman. Nick, what were your
8:12
Speaker 1: thoughts just going into this movie? Have you ever seen
8:14
Speaker 1: it before?
8:15
Speaker 2: I think i'd never actually seen the whole thing. I
8:17
Speaker 2: think i'd seen pieces and maybe i'd watched it when
8:21
Speaker 2: I was really young, but I did not remember it.
8:22
Speaker 2: So it was really like watching it for the first time,
8:25
Speaker 2: which nineteen seventy eight film. Watching something like that for
8:28
Speaker 2: the first time can can be a little tough depending
8:33
Speaker 2: on what.
8:33
Speaker 1: The film is.
8:35
Speaker 2: I will say that the moment the beginning was a
8:40
Speaker 2: little rough for me just from a special effects perspective. Obviously,
8:44
Speaker 2: this movie, like this is one of those films that
8:48
Speaker 2: took some chances and had some like creative took like
8:52
Speaker 2: creative liberties and like really kind of invented certain things
8:54
Speaker 2: on that comes with the special effects that like It's
9:00
Speaker 2: time kind of helped push this special effects space forward.
9:04
Speaker 2: So like I was watching that kind of with like
9:07
Speaker 2: a grain of just like knowledge, you know, trying not
9:09
Speaker 2: to like overly judge it because obviously it's nineteen seventy eight.
9:12
Speaker 1: A couple of parts on hand on hand on hand on.
9:15
Speaker 1: Maybe you can, because you know what came out a
9:17
Speaker 1: year before that, Star Wars, Star Wars. Yeah, Star Wars
9:22
Speaker 1: came out a year before that. That movie is still
9:24
Speaker 1: heralded for its special effects. Freaking two thousand and one.
9:27
Speaker 1: Space Honesty came out like what ten years before that,
9:30
Speaker 1: So maybe you can.
9:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point, I guess I can. But
9:35
Speaker 2: it more has to do with like the speedster scene
9:38
Speaker 2: at the beginning, where like, you know, the young Clark
9:40
Speaker 2: Kent is running next to the train that was not
9:43
Speaker 2: a good speedster. Speedster that was all right, Yeah, let's
9:47
Speaker 2: talk about that.
9:47
Speaker 1: Do you think like someone told Christopher Reeves to run
9:53
Speaker 1: like you've never ran before, like run like you don't
9:55
Speaker 1: know what to do with your art? What was that?
9:57
Speaker 1: That was such a strange.
9:59
Speaker 2: Choice technically that wasn't Christopher Reese yet, So.
10:02
Speaker 1: Because that's true, yeah, yeah, he's still we still have
10:05
Speaker 1: teenage Clark Kent bad that was.
10:08
Speaker 2: So awkward and not not very well done. And also
10:12
Speaker 2: at the very beginning when it opens right and where
10:14
Speaker 2: Alan Krypton, immediately you can tell it's like a built,
10:20
Speaker 2: small scale set that they're filming close up.
10:23
Speaker 1: So I was a bit more forgiving with this one.
10:25
Speaker 1: And I will say I agree with you, like you
10:28
Speaker 1: can tell it it's a built set. However, I actually
10:31
Speaker 1: really loved all of like the design language of Krypton. Yeah,
10:37
Speaker 1: I thought it looked looked awesome, like from like a
10:40
Speaker 1: seventy sci fi standpoint, you.
10:42
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, you have to watch it from that perspective,
10:45
Speaker 2: And I agree with you, it did it did look
10:47
Speaker 2: really awesome, but it was a little it's a little
10:49
Speaker 2: jarring that you can tell immediately, you know, like, granted
10:53
Speaker 2: it's nineteen seventy eight, there really isn't there. They weren't
10:55
Speaker 2: going to build this whole set right like in for
10:58
Speaker 2: Real in nineteen seventy eight, although they could because there
11:00
Speaker 2: was films that earlier did so they maybe took some
11:05
Speaker 2: I don't know cut corners is the right word. But
11:07
Speaker 2: maybe they just didn't have the budget for doing that.
11:10
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't you know.
11:11
Speaker 1: Anyway, it blew it all on Brand, do't Hackney.
11:13
Speaker 2: They blew it all Ondo and Gene. Yeah, but you know,
11:18
Speaker 2: so like the beginning kind of like there's those moments
11:21
Speaker 2: where you're like, ah, you know, I can tell that
11:22
Speaker 2: they did this, or like the speedster scene looks terrible.
11:25
Speaker 2: The acting not one hundred, not very great the beginning.
11:30
Speaker 2: But the cool part about this film is once the
11:34
Speaker 2: second Christopher Reeves enters the screen, the whole to me,
11:38
Speaker 2: the whole movie changes. The dude is a legend and
11:42
Speaker 2: he's a movie star. He's an absolute movie star. You
11:44
Speaker 2: can you can tell that the movie, the vibe of
11:47
Speaker 2: the whole feeling of the movie changes. The acting infinitely
11:50
Speaker 2: gets better the second Christopher Reeves is there and he
11:53
Speaker 2: is Clark Kent and he is super Band and he
11:55
Speaker 2: plays it so well and it's super believable. So and
11:59
Speaker 2: from that point on I really enjoyed it. I thought
12:01
Speaker 2: it really actually still holds up pretty well, you know,
12:04
Speaker 2: minus a couple of those little like flying special effects,
12:06
Speaker 2: which like that's just as good as they could get
12:09
Speaker 2: at that time or whatever they were doing. But it
12:11
Speaker 2: doesn't look awful. It's just you gotta get kind of
12:13
Speaker 2: you just got to accept it because it's.
12:15
Speaker 1: So old, you know, I do hear you on the
12:18
Speaker 1: special effects thing. I don't think I think most of
12:21
Speaker 1: them I was willing to like overlook, but you're right
12:25
Speaker 1: there there were times where I'm looking at it and
12:28
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know that I'm looking at a miniatureized
12:31
Speaker 1: set right now. So like, like it sucks to compare
12:34
Speaker 1: it to Star Wars, right, but like it came out
12:36
Speaker 1: just a year before and granted George Lucas like created
12:39
Speaker 1: an entire visual like special effects company just so he
12:43
Speaker 1: could do Star Wars, right, But I mean it was possible, right, hell,
12:47
Speaker 1: the company existed, So it's it's the climax when the
12:52
Speaker 1: fault line has broken and the earthquake is happening, and
12:56
Speaker 1: the dam of the flood has broken, and you're watching
12:59
Speaker 1: all the rocks to umble in the water like break loose, Right,
13:03
Speaker 1: that is so obvious a miniature set. Looking at it,
13:06
Speaker 1: and like, I want to believe that in nineteen seventy
13:09
Speaker 1: a like I wouldn't have noticed that. In nineteen SVYA,
13:11
Speaker 1: I probably would have been blown away. But like, I
13:13
Speaker 1: don't know. I still look at Star Wars today and
13:16
Speaker 1: I know in my like caveman brain or in my
13:19
Speaker 1: like go scholar brain, that it's a miniature I sit
13:22
Speaker 1: by my cave Barren brain season I'm like, oh, Space
13:24
Speaker 1: death Star, you know, like I'm in it. I feel it. Yeah,
13:28
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's just not the case with some of
13:30
Speaker 1: these some of these visual effects did not hold up
13:32
Speaker 1: through the years. I am curious though, Nick, you said
13:35
Speaker 1: that some of the acting in the beginning wasn't super
13:38
Speaker 1: super compelling. Were you referring to the Kryptonians.
13:44
Speaker 2: No, I mean I'm referring to literally the everyone until
13:47
Speaker 2: Christopher reeves like it's a screen basically.
13:51
Speaker 1: How come on? John Jonathan Kent's great, I really love
13:54
Speaker 1: Papa can Paw Cahn.
13:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, he might have been. He might have been like
13:58
Speaker 2: the saving grace of the opening compared to all the
14:02
Speaker 2: other stuff.
14:02
Speaker 1: You know, I will say, mom Paw kent all right. So,
14:06
Speaker 1: so Martha comes off as a little insane in the
14:11
Speaker 1: beginning of this movie where uh, you know, baby kal
14:14
Speaker 1: El shows up and she's like, it's ours and like
14:18
Speaker 1: Jonathan's being pretty rational about He's like, we gotta figure
14:20
Speaker 1: out where this baby came from. It's our baby, right,
14:22
Speaker 1: She's like, no, he's our baby. Yeah, Martha should talk
14:27
Speaker 1: to someone. She's clearly hurting.
14:31
Speaker 2: Oh man. Yeah, And then they have like the what
14:33
Speaker 2: I don't know how the twelve years the four year
14:35
Speaker 2: old Clark Kent lift up the car or the truck,
14:39
Speaker 2: you know, and then the dad is like, actually, we
14:40
Speaker 2: could use the help on the farm.
14:43
Speaker 1: So he's sold after that. So my man, my man's rational.
14:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, put him, just put the
14:51
Speaker 2: four year old to work. We'll we'll break all child
14:55
Speaker 2: labor laws here. It was Kansas was a different time
15:02
Speaker 2: in the seventies. Oh, I don't know, like just you know,
15:07
Speaker 2: the acting falls short for sure before that, but you know,
15:11
Speaker 2: and the movie really just it flips a script when
15:14
Speaker 2: Reeves hits the screen.
15:17
Speaker 1: Well, there's also I mean you mentioned that you feel
15:20
Speaker 1: like the movie really starts once Reeves hits the screen,
15:23
Speaker 1: and I think in a technical way that's like very true,
15:27
Speaker 1: because like the first hour and like fifteen minutes of
15:31
Speaker 1: the movie is just prologue, right, It's everything about Krypton,
15:35
Speaker 1: it's everything about young Clark Kent leading up to him
15:38
Speaker 1: going to the Fortress of Solitude. I mean, you know,
15:41
Speaker 1: the three act structures like really like evident in this movie,
15:45
Speaker 1: but that prologue, that first act is really long, and
15:49
Speaker 1: it doesn't really feel like the movie starts until that
15:51
Speaker 1: second act really, when we have him trying to figure
15:53
Speaker 1: out how to be Superman right in his new life
15:56
Speaker 1: in Metropolis for sure.
15:59
Speaker 2: For sure, which I thought that Clark Kent and Superman.
16:06
Speaker 2: And then of course with Lewis Lane really great on
16:09
Speaker 2: Margo kidder By the way, Margot Carath, thank you, great
16:12
Speaker 2: on screen chemistry for those two.
16:16
Speaker 1: I love her portrayal as Lewis Lane. I mean, this
16:20
Speaker 1: is the most positive way possible. I love how bitchy
16:24
Speaker 1: she is. It's it's great. She's so awesome super sass.
16:28
Speaker 1: He just cracks me up. Yes, super sas she cracks
16:31
Speaker 1: me up. Man.
16:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and it's really cool to watch this film,
16:35
Speaker 2: you know, gearing up for James Gunn Superman in a
16:38
Speaker 2: month because I feel like with James Gunn being the
16:43
Speaker 2: nerd that he is, there's gonna be some callbacks to
16:46
Speaker 2: this specific one and potentially.
16:48
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean there already is right, Like, you're the
16:52
Speaker 1: music guy, so we have oh my gosh, helped me
16:56
Speaker 1: out the score of this movie famous, he does them all.
16:59
Speaker 2: John Williams.
16:59
Speaker 1: John Williams, Yep, John Williams is the score of this
17:01
Speaker 1: movie and the legendary Superman score. We got a rock
17:05
Speaker 1: and roll version of it in the trailer for the
17:08
Speaker 1: New Superman. So yeah, I one percent agree with you.
17:12
Speaker 1: There're probably gonna be a lot of callbacks to this movie.
17:14
Speaker 2: Funny that you bring up the score. This is crazy.
17:18
Speaker 2: But and I love John Williams. I did not like
17:21
Speaker 2: the score really, there's something about the score for this
17:27
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy Eightman movie that like doesn't fit it. It
17:32
Speaker 2: feels like to cartoony. The score to me, it's so weird.
17:37
Speaker 2: I can't even put my finger on it just feels
17:39
Speaker 2: like it's like overly cartoony for the live action film
17:43
Speaker 2: that we're watching.
17:46
Speaker 1: I just I think that might you might really be
17:48
Speaker 1: onto something there, because that might be really reflective of
17:50
Speaker 1: like how people viewed comics back then, right as not
17:56
Speaker 1: being very realistic, right, and like maybe that that score
17:59
Speaker 1: that talking about, like that whimsical I'm thinking specifically of
18:04
Speaker 1: like when him and Lois are like flying right that
18:07
Speaker 1: that feels like a little cartoony. And I guess some
18:10
Speaker 1: other things too, like Gene Hackman himself like feels like
18:12
Speaker 1: a Saturday Morning cartoon villain le r.
18:15
Speaker 2: And then his psychic Otis is just such a complete dummy.
18:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's very cartoony, you know, Like, do you
18:21
Speaker 1: think we get a twenty twenty five version of Otis?
18:25
Speaker 2: I kind of hope so, because he's such a good,
18:27
Speaker 2: such good comic relief. Maybe not maybe not as stupid,
18:30
Speaker 2: because it's like he's almost too dumb to be like this, right,
18:33
Speaker 2: No billion are bad guy's sidekick. But yeah, the score
18:38
Speaker 2: just like really the whole time, I was like, man,
18:40
Speaker 2: I'm not loving this, which is crazy because I don't
18:43
Speaker 2: think I've ever said that about John Williams score before
18:45
Speaker 2: but we are. But yeah, maybe it's just some of
18:48
Speaker 2: the times kind of like you thought right back then,
18:49
Speaker 2: people didn't have the same you know, they were thinking
18:52
Speaker 2: more of the unrealistic comic thing rather than like trying
18:55
Speaker 2: to accept the live action part of this and make
19:00
Speaker 2: get like real you know, in our world. So very interesting.
19:03
Speaker 1: But I think I think there there is like a
19:07
Speaker 1: and maybe this like speaks to like the overall mythos
19:12
Speaker 1: or attraction like around Superman that it feels like this
19:15
Speaker 1: movie like tries to capture that the idea of a
19:19
Speaker 1: Superman existing does feel fantastical, right, And I think they
19:25
Speaker 1: really capitalize that capitalize on that in like in two scenes,
19:29
Speaker 1: you know, the first being Lois and Clark's flight. You know,
19:33
Speaker 1: they're date night in the sky, which I you know,
19:37
Speaker 1: as far as Becks go, it doesn't look super fantastic,
19:40
Speaker 1: but like, I still love that scene. It's a great scene.
19:42
Speaker 2: It's still fun.
19:44
Speaker 1: It's still fun. And and then of course the end
19:47
Speaker 1: where he's still experimenting with his powers and decides he's
19:51
Speaker 1: gonna reverse time in a very comical way, but it
19:55
Speaker 1: almost fits the cartoonish logic of the movie, right, So yeah,
20:01
Speaker 1: you have like these two different, like fantastical scenes, and
20:05
Speaker 1: Superman is this character of of not like insane power
20:10
Speaker 1: or like you know, of power greater than our own,
20:15
Speaker 1: but like he's a limitless character, right, Like there are
20:18
Speaker 1: no boundaries for Superman.
20:21
Speaker 2: The movie ends up being a secret superhero time travel film. Okay,
20:27
Speaker 2: which we should have drafted this in our time travel draft,
20:30
Speaker 2: which which we'll pin that card.
20:32
Speaker 1: To the video. This is gonna come up. I absolutely
20:35
Speaker 1: this is gonna come up. Yeah, So for our second
20:39
Speaker 1: time travel draft, we're gonna have to put this in
20:41
Speaker 1: the pool. I don't know if for anyone's gonna pay it,
20:43
Speaker 1: but we have to. It was neglected. It's crazy.
20:46
Speaker 2: Being a secret Superheroes sound travel film fits two categories.
20:49
Speaker 1: That we haven't. It's two categories outrageous.
20:53
Speaker 2: Absolutely outrageous. Anyway, I think we should move on a
20:59
Speaker 2: Fantastic four. Unless you have any other quick thoughts or
21:02
Speaker 2: something you wanted to bring up about.
21:03
Speaker 1: This, just just one. We keep talking about him, but
21:07
Speaker 1: we really haven't said anything about him. Gene Hackman. I
21:14
Speaker 1: he's Gene Hackman, right, uh ur r I P and
21:17
Speaker 1: I I. He's just so outrageous in this movie. And
21:21
Speaker 1: like it's very clear that he's having a great time.
21:28
Speaker 2: It's open, come in.
21:31
Speaker 1: I just I have nothing more to say than just
21:33
Speaker 1: that I loved every second he was on screen. I
21:35
Speaker 1: love that he's just like he's so proud to be
21:38
Speaker 1: a criminal, like and he just like lets everybody, he
21:40
Speaker 1: lets everybody knows that he's this great criminal even though
21:42
Speaker 1: he's just been arrested. And yeah, I love it.
21:45
Speaker 2: He's in he's inside the jail and Superman brought up
21:48
Speaker 2: there and he's like, Lex Luthor, I'm the greatest criminal
21:50
Speaker 2: a lot.
21:52
Speaker 1: He's just he's just owning up to it. He's just like, yeah,
21:55
Speaker 1: it's me. Yeah, it's beout to I love his stupid layer.
22:02
Speaker 2: It's to comic bookie. I think that's the you know,
22:04
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's comic Bookie, right, Like you think of
22:06
Speaker 2: the past Lex salutors we've had, and it's like nothing
22:09
Speaker 2: like very serious, very opposite. So yeah, it'll be cool
22:15
Speaker 2: to see what James guns Superman and what James guns
22:18
Speaker 2: Lex Luthor Luthor are.
22:21
Speaker 1: That is Nicholas Holt. Yes, he's Yeah, this feels like
22:27
Speaker 1: I think this will be his biggest movie I've I've
22:31
Speaker 1: really enjoyed him uh in in what I've seen. I've
22:34
Speaker 1: only ever seen him be a principal actor one time,
22:37
Speaker 1: and that was, Oh my god, what was it jur
22:39
Speaker 1: number two or German number three, It's something something like that,
22:43
Speaker 1: which kind of felt like it was twelve Angry Men again.
22:47
Speaker 1: But but he was pretty good in that movie. I'm
22:49
Speaker 1: excited to see him get a starring role.
22:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well he also I mean an X Men. You know,
22:55
Speaker 2: he plays Beast twos, which, like he has a lot
23:00
Speaker 2: of a lot of screen.
23:01
Speaker 1: Time camera, Yeah, a lot of camera time.
23:03
Speaker 2: And I always remember him specifically from Mad Max. What
23:07
Speaker 2: a lovely He's awesome in that film too, not as
23:10
Speaker 2: much screen time, but anyway, Yeah, but it'll be cool
23:13
Speaker 2: to see him in this uh playing like, you know,
23:17
Speaker 2: basically the main villain here.
23:18
Speaker 1: So we'll see after. Just as a closing thought here
23:20
Speaker 1: on Superman, how'd you feel when the movie's over? Just
23:24
Speaker 1: as far as like Superman, how'd you feel about the character?
23:27
Speaker 1: How'd you feel about it as a movie for the time.
23:31
Speaker 2: I think for the time it was it's it's it's
23:34
Speaker 2: I think it was solid. I think it was great.
23:37
Speaker 2: Really definitely took some chances with like what they were
23:42
Speaker 2: doing effects wise, It's not one of those older films
23:50
Speaker 2: that I am going to rush to rewatch though, you know,
23:53
Speaker 2: like I honestly I probably will never watch it again.
23:57
Speaker 2: It's good, it was cool, it was enjoyable. I'm glad
23:59
Speaker 2: I saw it. It's important for like the history of
24:02
Speaker 2: DC and the history of Superman and the history of
24:04
Speaker 2: film in cinema, right like, but it's not. It's not
24:08
Speaker 2: so groundbreaking to me that I'm going to like revisit
24:15
Speaker 2: it later, right Like. It's it's important for the progression
24:19
Speaker 2: of superhero films and all of that, but it's not
24:22
Speaker 2: something that needs to be I don't. I don't think
24:24
Speaker 2: it needs I don't think it deserves like insane praise.
24:30
Speaker 1: You wouldn't put it in a top five superhero film list, right,
24:34
Speaker 1: not at all, not even close. I think you give
24:36
Speaker 1: it some good kudos though, and like paving the way
24:38
Speaker 1: for superhero movies. I will say, like, I would love
24:42
Speaker 1: to know what the sales of Superman comics were prior
24:46
Speaker 1: to this movie versus after. Superman to this day remains
24:51
Speaker 1: the most sold comic book in the entire world, which
24:54
Speaker 1: is insane considering it's it's long run time. Right, What
24:58
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is this character is just very
25:00
Speaker 1: important to a lot of people. This movie obviously made
25:03
Speaker 1: Superman accessible, even more so than the comics did, so
25:08
Speaker 1: it's easy to see how this character has become so
25:11
Speaker 1: beloved over the years. And I think the movie did
25:12
Speaker 1: do a good job. While the movie has flawed itself,
25:15
Speaker 1: I think it's very good to Superman. Christopher Reeves lives
25:18
Speaker 1: up to the Man of Steel.
25:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's a great synopsis. Let's
25:22
Speaker 2: go to the first family.
25:26
Speaker 1: First family of Marvel.
25:27
Speaker 2: Give me your boy, give me your like. Initial thoughts
25:30
Speaker 2: on the two, Okay, I have fantastic but.
25:33
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna keep this as brief as I had.
25:36
Speaker 1: All Right, So I went in this movie believing that
25:38
Speaker 1: it was horrible. I was pleasantly surprised that it's not.
25:41
Speaker 1: It's honestly a pretty solid film. Yeah, Like like the story,
25:45
Speaker 1: like it's a little goofy, but like overall it's it's fine.
25:49
Speaker 1: I would say, like, my biggest complaint about the movie
25:51
Speaker 1: is like it doesn't really do anything groundbreaking visually or
25:56
Speaker 1: story wise or acting wise. Most of the movie I
25:58
Speaker 1: think is just kind of inspired the comedy is mostly solid,
26:04
Speaker 1: except for Ben Grimm's like weird one liners that he like.
26:07
Speaker 1: It's even worse in the second movie. I don't know
26:09
Speaker 1: why they keep making him do it. Yeah, he just had.
26:12
Speaker 1: He's just a cliche machine.
26:14
Speaker 2: It's about the destroy.
26:15
Speaker 1: Our planet in less than twenty four hours. Did I
26:17
Speaker 1: miss anything? Ducks to be fun, but honestly, mostly pretty solid.
26:25
Speaker 1: I loved the portrayals of Read the Thing Johnny Storm.
26:29
Speaker 1: I'm convinced that there hasn't been a bad Johnny Storm
26:32
Speaker 1: on camera yet. Sue and Victor are a little rough
26:38
Speaker 1: and a little disappointing, But that's basically my quick synopsis.
26:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that's a good thought. Chris Evans is
26:44
Speaker 2: fantastic comic relief.
26:45
Speaker 1: He's the best part.
26:46
Speaker 2: He's the best part of the movie for sure. He's hilarious.
26:48
Speaker 2: Effects wise, like you said, nothing really groundbreaking, but from
26:52
Speaker 2: a practical effects perspective, that is really cool. Ben Grimm,
26:56
Speaker 2: the thing was they basically it was like a prostate.
27:00
Speaker 2: He was wearing the whole like he's essentially in this
27:02
Speaker 2: like suit that they created, and then they touched it
27:05
Speaker 2: up with digital effects. So that's why I think that
27:08
Speaker 2: really shows and that's a really cool thing. But I'll
27:14
Speaker 2: see myself out. I just did that anyway, So that
27:20
Speaker 2: was that was cool. But yeah, nothing really ground packing
27:24
Speaker 2: special effects wise. Really honestly, what you said about the
27:27
Speaker 2: characters and the actors like that's I had the same thought.
27:32
Speaker 2: I like that the movie it moves really quick at
27:36
Speaker 2: the beginning.
27:37
Speaker 1: It does. It's like the differences between does not waste time.
27:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, the difference between nineteen seventy eight Superman and Fantastic
27:42
Speaker 2: four two thousand and five is that like the first hour,
27:44
Speaker 2: like you said in fifteen of Superman, the movie so
27:47
Speaker 2: much backstory, right, and Fantastic four wise, like we're basically
27:51
Speaker 2: like twenty minutes in, we're already in space, they're getting
27:54
Speaker 2: hit with the storm, and then like thirty forty minutes
27:58
Speaker 2: in they're getting their powers, and then the last like
28:00
Speaker 2: and twenty minutes is like them just like figuring out
28:03
Speaker 2: how to use their powers and then also stop Victor
28:06
Speaker 2: Bond doom basically.
28:07
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a basic Actually, how similar this
28:10
Speaker 1: movie is like beat for beat with like spider Man,
28:13
Speaker 1: like Sam Raimi spider Man.
28:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know, I'm something of a scientist myself.
28:18
Speaker 1: Right, it's like if you like put both of them
28:21
Speaker 1: in like an outline, like it's almost the same beat structure.
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, when did sam Rammi Spider Man come out?
28:27
Speaker 1: I want to say that that was two thousand and
28:29
Speaker 1: one or two thousand and two, okay.
28:30
Speaker 2: So before so that would make sense. Why it's like,
28:32
Speaker 2: we're just gonna take the Spider Man thing, like, do
28:34
Speaker 2: the same thing.
28:35
Speaker 1: I read it made a bajillion dollars, so it makes sense.
28:37
Speaker 2: But and it wasn't. Honestly it was. It was good.
28:40
Speaker 2: It's the best Fantastic Four movie so far.
28:43
Speaker 1: So yeah that I I wholeheartedly so.
28:48
Speaker 2: And yeah, and it's still it's and it is rewatchable
28:51
Speaker 2: I think, right, it still holds up. Yeah.
28:53
Speaker 1: Now if I sat it on TV, I would keep
28:55
Speaker 1: it on.
28:56
Speaker 2: Right. The hope though, is that the Fantastic Four First
29:00
Speaker 2: ups that's coming out in July is infinitely better than anything.
29:03
Speaker 1: But Marvel needs it to be infinitely better.
29:06
Speaker 2: That is the hope, and I would love that to
29:09
Speaker 2: be the case.
29:10
Speaker 1: Right.
29:10
Speaker 2: I think the cast is fantastic. I like the clearly
29:14
Speaker 2: it's going to going to be a different like universe
29:16
Speaker 2: that we're in. Right of the of the multiverse, and
29:18
Speaker 2: so I think that's gonna help it a little bit.
29:19
Speaker 2: That's gonna be really cool. And yeah, I'm just I hope,
29:24
Speaker 2: I hope that that's the case. Like and like you said,
29:26
Speaker 2: Marvel really needs it to be a hitter. It needs
29:29
Speaker 2: it because it I think it's it's well, we know
29:31
Speaker 2: it's super important for this next phase because Victor von
29:34
Speaker 2: dum is going to be played by none other than
29:37
Speaker 2: r DJ.
29:38
Speaker 1: So we gotta gotta.
29:40
Speaker 2: It's gotta be good.
29:42
Speaker 1: It's gotta be good. I will say, I am, I am.
29:45
Speaker 1: I have high hopes for this movie. I think it's
29:48
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be great. I think it'll be fantastic. There,
29:51
Speaker 1: I say. I will say I think Superman has a
29:54
Speaker 1: slight advantage even with DC's troubled like credibility. You know,
30:00
Speaker 1: I was bringing up before, like the amount of accessibility
30:02
Speaker 1: Superman's had through the decades, and I think like in
30:06
Speaker 1: that accessibility, Superman has seen more successes with the mainstream
30:10
Speaker 1: than Fantastic Four ever has. I think at best you
30:15
Speaker 1: brought it up this two thousand and five movies probably
30:17
Speaker 1: the most accessible mainstream has had to the Fantastic Four,
30:20
Speaker 1: And even with that they're kind of still viewed as
30:23
Speaker 1: pretty goofy, you know, instead of like that cool factor,
30:27
Speaker 1: right or that interesting factor.
30:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, And honestly, the jam James Gunn with the success
30:34
Speaker 2: you have with Guardians in the MCU, like it's a
30:38
Speaker 2: fresh start for DC, Like truly a fresh start for DC.
30:41
Speaker 2: And his track record is so good with those last
30:45
Speaker 2: that everyone is going to watch the Superman. They want
30:48
Speaker 2: to know, like, are we going to get the DC
30:51
Speaker 2: that we deserve, that is going to set it up
30:54
Speaker 2: properly like Marvel has done over the last twenty whatever years, right,
30:58
Speaker 2: Like is it gonna that's what we're gonna do, you know?
31:01
Speaker 2: And and hopefully the answer is yes. And this is
31:03
Speaker 2: the first test. And honestly, it's gonna be tough. It's
31:09
Speaker 2: gonna be tough for Fantastic four to go up against them.
31:12
Speaker 2: I think Marvel's on its way back up. I think
31:15
Speaker 2: everyone is like ready for this next phase. But Fantastic
31:20
Speaker 2: four has gotta do some numbers. We'll see. I don't know,
31:23
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit nervous for him about it because
31:25
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm I think it's gonna be great. I
31:27
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be awesome.
31:31
Speaker 1: It's it's a battle, you know, to shift back into
31:37
Speaker 1: the two thousand and five move really quick, and I
31:41
Speaker 1: guess like in comparing it with the twenty twenty five movie,
31:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I am I am assuming that our plot
31:49
Speaker 1: is more interesting than just Victor von Dum just wants
31:54
Speaker 1: to kill the Fantastic Four, which like that's what I'm
31:56
Speaker 1: kind of talking about, like the movie being kind of uninspired,
31:59
Speaker 1: Like there's there's nothing really ambitious anywhere in the movie itself.
32:04
Speaker 1: I mean even like think of like Ben Grimm's story
32:08
Speaker 1: arc history arc is ugly. I don't want to be
32:12
Speaker 1: ugly anymore, you know, Like that's and then like the ends,
32:15
Speaker 1: like I love who I am on the inside, you know,
32:18
Speaker 1: like that's that's it. That's the height. That's the height
32:21
Speaker 1: of acting that we get from this movie. Victor von
32:24
Speaker 1: Dum is just evil. He's just evil. Like that's it, dude,
32:28
Speaker 1: freaking Julian McMahon. I mean, like, I'm sure he just
32:32
Speaker 1: did what he was told to do, which was just
32:34
Speaker 1: be evil. But like I don't know, man, I did
32:38
Speaker 1: not care about him being Victor von Due at all.
32:41
Speaker 1: I will say, you know, we was talking about Spider
32:43
Speaker 1: Man earlier dude, talk about beat for beat. He's just
32:46
Speaker 1: an iteration of William Dafoe's green goblin. Rich scientist goes crazy,
32:53
Speaker 1: wants to kill a hero.
32:55
Speaker 2: You know, you know, I'm something of a scientist myself.
32:59
Speaker 2: That's how they're written in the comics.
33:00
Speaker 1: Joe, No, he's no, that's the worst part. Victor von
33:03
Speaker 1: Doom is like the most interesting Marvel comic character. When
33:08
Speaker 1: done properly, He's awesome, he's hilarious, he could be hilarious,
33:10
Speaker 1: he can be menacing, he's great, and like this character
33:14
Speaker 1: was just just bad. Well I'm just bad.
33:17
Speaker 2: That's probably why they cast Robert Downe Jr. So that
33:19
Speaker 2: we can get all those things you just mentioned properly.
33:22
Speaker 2: We'll see.
33:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully it doesn't.
33:25
Speaker 2: Well that's still we're not gonna talk about that. But
33:27
Speaker 2: that that's that's that's such a that is such a.
33:33
Speaker 1: Just you know what, I think.
33:34
Speaker 2: That's a move. What do you think?
33:36
Speaker 1: All right? This is this is another Joe hil Mary.
33:41
Speaker 1: I think RDJ is obviously going to be doctor Jim.
33:43
Speaker 1: They told us as much, but like, I think he's
33:45
Speaker 1: going to be Doctor Doom just as far as like
33:47
Speaker 1: these movies go, right, Avengers Doom's Day Avenger Secret Wars.
33:52
Speaker 1: I do think that there is like another Doctor Doom
33:54
Speaker 1: in play. I don't know who I have. I have
33:56
Speaker 1: literally no reason to think this, but but I can't
34:00
Speaker 1: believe that RDJ will continue to be Doctor Doom in
34:03
Speaker 1: the future. And like I can't believe that Marvel, if
34:06
Speaker 1: they have plans beyond Secret Wars, which I assume they do,
34:10
Speaker 1: I can't believe that they would be ready and done
34:12
Speaker 1: with Doctor Doom so fast. So my hope is that
34:15
Speaker 1: Ardij similarly to Oh my God, what was his name?
34:18
Speaker 1: Jim from the Office John Krasinski, similarly to John Krasinski
34:22
Speaker 1: playing mister Fantastic in like one movie, that there is
34:27
Speaker 1: another Doom in play at some point down the road. Interesting.
34:32
Speaker 2: Interesting, just a thought we'll see. Speaking of Fantastic four stuff. Yeah,
34:42
Speaker 2: the cameo, it's Fantastic four two thousand and.
34:44
Speaker 1: Five, we're talking about Stanley.
34:45
Speaker 2: We're talking about Stanley, Baby Stanley.
34:48
Speaker 1: I forgot, yeahfully.
34:49
Speaker 2: Forgot he had a cameo on it. I was just
34:51
Speaker 2: it was so nice to see him.
34:54
Speaker 1: It is nice to see him. Although I will say,
34:56
Speaker 1: like this cameo way better than his cameo in Fantastic
34:59
Speaker 1: four to Rise of Silver Server where he can't get
35:03
Speaker 1: into the wedding and they're kicking him out. Why are
35:05
Speaker 1: we being mean to Stanley? Don't be mean to stan Lee.
35:08
Speaker 1: I don't like seeing that.
35:10
Speaker 2: Did you like watch The Silver Server right after this?
35:12
Speaker 1: I did? I did? I did. My wife actually was
35:16
Speaker 1: like my wife apparently is like super into that movie.
35:19
Speaker 1: She just really loves the idea of the Silver Server
35:22
Speaker 1: for some reason. I don't know. Maybe it's because of
35:24
Speaker 1: the naked guy on a board. I have no idea. Well,
35:26
Speaker 1: but she loves the Silver Surfer.
35:28
Speaker 2: Well, the Silver Surfer and the new Fantastic Force a woman, So.
35:33
Speaker 1: She's weirdly not as excited about that one.
35:37
Speaker 2: How about that poor Joe? All right, we're getting off,
35:43
Speaker 2: we're getting at it at of whack here? What out
35:45
Speaker 2: anything else?
35:46
Speaker 1: Like?
35:46
Speaker 2: I don't have much else on the Fantastic poor film
35:48
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty or two thousand and five.
35:51
Speaker 1: Solid fun that that should tell you a lot, considering
35:54
Speaker 1: that much we talked about Superman.
35:56
Speaker 2: Right, Well, it's just you know, it was fun, it
35:58
Speaker 2: was cool. It's the best one I've been Hopefully this
36:01
Speaker 2: one in July kicks its ass because it's honestly, it
36:04
Speaker 2: shouldn't take much.
36:05
Speaker 1: It should not take much, I guess, just on some
36:11
Speaker 1: final notes, I hope that I know it's tough, but
36:15
Speaker 1: I hope that the entire cast like the like all
36:17
Speaker 1: the whole foursome, right. I hope that they all get
36:20
Speaker 1: like good character arcts, that they're all actually interesting. I
36:24
Speaker 1: hope that Sue is more than just the girl, you know. Yeah, yeah,
36:30
Speaker 1: I hope Ben is more than just ugly. But on
36:34
Speaker 1: the inside I'm beautiful, you know. Yeah, Like it already
36:39
Speaker 1: looks like it's gonna be more than that. I will
36:42
Speaker 1: say watching the human torch in in the original movie
36:45
Speaker 1: is just always fun. If you if you were if
36:48
Speaker 1: you were picking the better film between these movies, what
36:51
Speaker 1: would you say Fantastic for it's funny? I would say Superman.
36:56
Speaker 1: I will give you that. I would probably watch Fantastic
36:59
Speaker 1: Four sooner than I would watch Superman. But it's only
37:02
Speaker 1: because I could watch it with my brain sleeping, you know,
37:05
Speaker 1: like I don't have to think about it. I could
37:06
Speaker 1: just throw it on.
37:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
37:08
Speaker 1: I think Superman is the more ambitious movie, even if
37:11
Speaker 1: it's way slower in pace, and I would sooner watch
37:15
Speaker 1: Fantastic Four again, I think it's probably the better film.
37:20
Speaker 2: That's fair. That's fair. It's just Superman. The movie is
37:25
Speaker 2: a little tough, it is.
37:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely not for everybody. It's long in that beginning.
37:35
Speaker 1: That beginning is slow, but Fantastic four is fun. Is
37:41
Speaker 1: a more fun time. It's way more fun.
37:43
Speaker 2: So please let us know if you've watched these two
37:48
Speaker 2: movies recently, let us know what you think. Let us
37:51
Speaker 2: know what you're excited about for James Gunn Superman and
37:54
Speaker 2: for Fantastic four. Four Steps that's coming out next month.
37:57
Speaker 2: In the meantime, coming up on the podcast, you are
38:00
Speaker 2: continuing our time travel draft. The next film is going
38:03
Speaker 2: to be a rival. This is Joe's pick, so we're
38:05
Speaker 2: talking about Arrival Past that Old Guard. The Old Guard too,
38:09
Speaker 2: comes out on Netflix first week of July, so we're
38:12
Speaker 2: going to be talking about that, and then after that,
38:14
Speaker 2: of course Superman. James Gunn Superman comes out and we'll
38:18
Speaker 2: be discussing that in the middle of July. And yeah,
38:23
Speaker 2: that subscribe button goes a comment follow us on threads
38:26
Speaker 2: where we were talking about everything that's streaming in between
38:29
Speaker 2: and until the next time. My friends may the review
38:32
Speaker 2: beat with you, peace,