Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / S2 E17: "Andor" Season 2, Episodes 4-6 Recap (SPOILERS)

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S2 E17: "Andor" Season 2, Episodes 4-6 Recap (SPOILERS) · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello there. It's Most Things Kenobi where we
• 0:03
  always have the high ground. Hi everyone, welcome to another
• 0:21
  episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
• 0:25
  all things Star Wars. I'm your host, Lauren.
• 0:28
  And I'm your host, Leanne. And it's time for some more and
• 0:32
  or. It thank goodness I'm ready.
• 0:36
  Thank God it's every week because I don't think I could
• 0:39
  wait longer than one week at a time.
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  No. And here I am existing in my own
• 0:44
  La La land where I thought it came out on Wednesday evenings
• 0:48
  and you text me and tell me it's Tuesday.
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  So I waited longer than I needed to because I'm in my own world
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  of ignorance. I thought you were just really
• 0:58
  busy with work and that you you couldn't watch it.
• 1:01
  That's why I thought you were waiting.
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  I was waiting. I was waiting for Wednesday
• 1:05
  evening to come rolling around. I'm like, OK, I got the schedule
• 1:09
  clear. I'm ready to go.
• 1:12
  Stupid. That's a good thing you didn't
• 1:14
  see any spoilers. I have to watch it right away or
• 1:18
  you will see spoilers like later that evening, right as the show
• 1:23
  is over. I go on Tumblr.
• 1:25
  There's gift sets already made of all the important scenes.
• 1:29
  I don't know how people do that so quickly.
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  It's crazy. They move with the quickness
• 1:37
  they do, but I move with the slowness.
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  So perpetually 24 hours behind. Oh God, but I'm ready to go.
• 1:48
  I watched them. Nice.
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  All right, well, we'll say right here, spoiler alert, anything
• 1:53
  moving forward, We are spoiler heavy for Andor episodes 4-5 and
• 1:57
  six, so if you haven't watched it yet, please stop listening.
• 2:01
  Come back once you've watched it.
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  We don't want to ruin anything for anybody, but we're gonna
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  launch in and once again, holy shit.
• 2:11
  Oh my God. Oh my God, by episode 6, I was,
• 2:18
  I was on the edge of my seat. Oh my God, Episode 6.
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  But the whole progression of each of these three blocks is
• 2:28
  really well done, Really well done.
• 2:31
  Yeah. And now that you're saying that
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  I'm, it's triggering in me that that's how I felt in the second
• 2:37
  block of Season 1 with the Aldani heist.
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  So there is a. Parallel that happened, yeah,
• 2:43
  there is actually it's very. Yeah, it's definitely a parallel
• 2:48
  for sure. And and it has sort of similar
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  ending. Pretty much horrible.
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  I mean, we'll get there already. We're out.
• 2:59
  We're out ahead of ourselves. But there's yeah.
• 3:02
  We'll we'll follow the episodes in order.
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  We're trying to be good about that in this series of reviews
• 3:08
  we're doing. So we'll just start with episode
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  4. You know what?
• 3:10
  I didn't write down the episode names so.
• 3:13
  Oh, I didn't either. I just put 4-5 and six and I
• 3:16
  came with two pages of notes this week, so not 3, but but
• 3:21
  two, which is pretty good because I spent a lot more time,
• 3:24
  like in the moment, you know, you could take my eyes away from
• 3:27
  a lot of this. Yeah, I, I did what I did last
• 3:30
  time and I just watched it and then I went through it again and
• 3:33
  I have 6 pages of notes and I did not I did not finish like I
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  didn't get all the way through the the third episode or well
• 3:42
  episode 6 a second time. So I know we can go back and do
• 3:46
  more deep dives because. There there's so.
• 3:49
  Much to address. Where do you want to start?
• 3:54
  I mean, my first note is the music right off the bat is
• 3:58
  beautiful and painful and very Rogue One.
• 4:01
  Yes it is. It's so the vibe is so much more
• 4:04
  Rogue One than last season. And I'm I am still like so sad
• 4:10
  that Nicholas Patel isn't writing the music because it had
• 4:12
  this yeah, whole energy to it that was all on its own.
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  But this is still so good in it. And like you said, it's going to
• 4:19
  tie in with Rogue One very well. This is a good bridge.
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  Oh, totally. And once you said that in our
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  last episode about the last three Andor episodes, I paid
• 4:31
  more attention to it because music can be one of those really
• 4:35
  subtle things, but it has a profound influence on what
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  you're feeling as as someone watching the show.
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  And I really felt it like these three episodes that maybe a
• 4:45
  result of me paying more attention, but it was I mean it,
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  it's really good. I I don't know, man, I have so
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  many notes. That was a weak entry note, but.
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  No, it's not a pertinent 1. I think it's actually important
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  in the second scene. But the first scene is Bix
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  having PTSD like crazy and. Oh, I know.
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  I feel Doctor Gorst. Haunting every moment of her
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  life, which, yeah, I honestly, the thing I found really
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  interesting about this scene and with Bix and Cassian in general,
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  is there's a bit of a like a role reversal that I, I really
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  like because so often in other forms of media, the man is
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  haunted and the woman is trying to soothe and calm.
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  And it's the opposite here. Bix is the one who is tormented
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  and Cassian is trying to be understanding and and gentle and
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  like there for her. It's a really refreshing role
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  reversal that I'm really enjoying.
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  I am so glad you brought that up because I thought of it.
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  I didn't make a note of it. What I have here is related to
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  that, but I noticed that he was to be very obvious with it.
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  He was in the kitchen while she was working on the technological
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  thing. And you?
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  She's she's cleaning their fucking weapons and he's making
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  dinner. I was like God bless this show
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  but. To your point, a man usually is
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  the one who doesn't want to talk about their emotions.
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  And this is very we're saying that it shouldn't like.
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  Let me make a note here. This is the stereotype.
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  This is not a piece that fits all sizes whatever.
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  It's the it's the stereotype of the man can't cry.
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  The man can't show emotion, which is unfair and unheard of
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  and just uncalled for really. Well, and it's so often
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  portrayed that way in media, which is something we all
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  consume and it of course is either a reflection of us or can
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  influence us. And it's nice to see a man
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  having a sensitivity and not supporting those stereotypes, I
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  guess is what we're trying to say.
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  And. Not only that, I think a theme
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  that I made multiple notes of that that showed itself early in
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  episode 4 is that war impacts people very differently.
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  Cassian's been through it, Bix has been through it.
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  Every single person in this rebellion is either been or
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  going or will be going through it in some degree, right?
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  And you've got people like Sau Guerrero who revels in it.
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  And then you've got Bix, who's got obvious PTSD, depression,
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  anxiety and all it. It's all warranted.
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  Cassian is kind of hardened to it, but he wants to feel
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  something with somebody. He just doesn't want to be a
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  tool, like he says Duluth in later on in a different episode.
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  But war is taking its toll. And we haven't even gotten to
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  like the heart of this war. Yeah, this is the this is The
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  Dirty beginning of it all. So.
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  Yeah, And like, whatever happened between them in the
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  year, you know, from, I guess, the end, what was it, a year
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  from the last episode block, She's been on missions.
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  It sounds like they do missions together.
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  They have a bat signal where they get a light flashing and
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  they know that Luther wants to speak to them.
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  There isn't. Crazy.
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  I know I kind of love it though. It's like one step away from a
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  bat signal. So Cassie and his Batman, and
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  I'm OK with that. I'm OK with that as well.
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  And Coruscant seems a bit like Gotham.
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  That's fine. Oh, it had Gotham vibes.
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  It's very dark. You know, usually Coruscant's
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  kind of scrubbed clean. And there were definitely
• 8:46
  moments of that, but we saw the grittier apartment complexes,
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  Like very cinder Block I. Made a note of that.
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  Well, and we've seen this in Clone Wars.
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  It's been referenced many times that Coruscant on the surface
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  has this glossy. I mean, the word Coruscant means
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  sparkly shimmering, but there's underlayers and you can see it's
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  very representative in the characters as well.
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  Cassian and Bix are in this safe house.
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  It's not terrible, but it's kind of depressing and cold and
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  isolated and down lower. And then Deidre has a nicer
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  apartment that's up a little higher.
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  It's got beautiful windows. And then Mon Mothma is on like a
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  whole another glistening level of white sparkling beautiful.
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  You know, it's very cool to see all this represented literally a
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  representation of what the characters like, their tier,
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  their caste system, whatever you want to call it, you know?
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  I will say that each single, every single one of these
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  places, no matter if it's Cassian and Bix or Deidre or
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  Mon, every single place is very soulless.
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  Yes, it is for. Various reasons.
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  It is. And that's why I feel like
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  moments where Bix and Cassian are having this gentleness
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  between them, it really shows that home is.
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  And I think I actually saw Diego Luna talk about this for
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  Cassian, that he has to learn that home is inside you because.
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  Oh yeah. His history, you know, it's his
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  childhood and then living with Marva and what happened to Clem
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  and all of this. It's like he realizes that the
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  warmth has to come inside you and not necessarily from the
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  place you're in, because the places can be very inhumane.
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  I mean, he's been to prison twice, so I guess that makes.
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  That's true. Makes.
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  A bit of sense, but like Bix puts flowers on the table, she
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  tries to clean the place up and make it a home, and that is so
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  much more organic than what you see with Deidre S.
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  Oh God. Terrible, even though she.
• 11:00
  Lives off. I know.
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  Oh my God I can't wait till we get to this weird.
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  I know, sorry. But like she she has a nice home
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  but it feels soulless and gin and or Gin and Cassian reflex.
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  Well, Cassian and Bix have a shitty safe house and it feels
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  more like a home, you know? So I find that dynamic very
• 11:21
  interesting. As the person who has to
• 11:24
  acknowledge pyjamas in Star Wars, did you notice their
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  pyjamas? Yes.
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  They looked very comfortable and far better than Count Dooku's
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  attire. Just I noticed it and then I
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  really noticed it and I was like, oh, I wouldn't mind
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  wearing. They seem very normal.
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  I feel like we saw Cassian wearing those sandals when he
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  was on. Oh God, what is that island
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  place that? Yeah, well, I mean, we all have
• 11:57
  house sandals, so I can, I can kind of can't kind of get with
• 12:02
  get with his house sandals. But yeah, I'm wearing mine right
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  now. In fact, look.
• 12:08
  Yes, you are. How funny.
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  I just brought it up and showed her.
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  Sorry you can't see. They're not fancy.
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  Very comfortable. Well, so we cut from that whole
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  sequence into Gorman. Yeah, but wait, OK, I have to
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  make one more thing about Coruscant.
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  OK. The Thunder and the thunderstorm
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  that was taking place. Was that not a direct slap in my
• 12:31
  face from what I said last episode?
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  I put in all caps. What the fuck is this?
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  When I saw it was raining, I'm like, Leanne's going to have a
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  comment. OK so I went and I I fucking
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  looked it up. It says Coruscant is under a
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  weather control system manipulated by the weather of
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  the galactic city on the planet of Coruscant, the capital of the
• 12:52
  Galactic Republic and later the Galactic Empire.
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  Coruscant thus has an artif official temperate climate.
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  A thunderstorm is not a part of a temperate climate.
• 13:02
  Tony Gilroy, We're going to have to sit down and discuss what a
• 13:07
  temperate climate is. Clearly no one talked to a
• 13:11
  weather forecaster before writing this.
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  It granted it was a garden variety thunderstorm for what I
• 13:19
  saw. Perhaps I could let it slide.
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  It wasn't a severe thunderstorm with giant winds.
• 13:24
  The wind the the rain wasn't lashing.
• 13:25
  This is all on a side that nobody needs.
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  But I did note it in the notes in all caps.
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  What the fuck? I thought there was no weather.
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  I'm researching this so that's in my notes.
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  OK, now we can go to Gorman. I mean, it's important to bring
• 13:40
  it up because we did specifically mention it in our
• 13:42
  last episode. So I mean, I, I slapped my knee
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  and I said, God damn it, now I'm going to have to go talk and try
• 13:48
  and make up some kind of ground with this because I'm losing.
• 13:51
  But I I did research artificial temperate climate anyway.
• 13:57
  Don't they also have like a a fake sunrise too?
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  On course, I thought. It'll be in the next set of
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  episodes and I'll have to talk about it next time.
• 14:07
  True, true. All right.
• 14:09
  Well, Gorman then. Gorman is beautiful, would love
• 14:12
  to visit sometime. It's such an obvious reference
• 14:17
  to pre war Europe to me. They.
• 14:21
  Yes. Like the the music that plays
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  over the establishing shot where you see the city of Palmo I
• 14:28
  think is what it's called. Which I got New Zealand vibes.
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  I got like, like the South Island of New Zealand.
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  Interesting it is based on northern Italy.
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  And I said northern Italy last episode, and that was in Spain.
• 14:44
  So I'm, I'm on a winning streak, God damn it.
• 14:48
  OK. Well, I looked it up
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  specifically because they're making very obvious references
• 14:52
  with the language, the, the clothing, everything.
• 14:55
  So I was curious. Very true.
• 14:58
  But the music to be sounded very German, very Austrian.
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  There was something I was expecting yodeling to come up at
• 15:08
  one point. It was very beautiful and I
• 15:13
  loved it. And it continued on after.
• 15:16
  You see Cyril in his apartment, then it turns into a waltz.
• 15:21
  The music is a waltz and it's very particular and it's
• 15:25
  purposefully putting your mind in pre World War 2 Europe, on
• 15:30
  purpose I think anyway, you were going to say.
• 15:33
  Oh, I, I just think that the opening shots with Cyril's
• 15:38
  conversation with his mother as he's walking through was such a
• 15:42
  smart use of combining 2 scenes without it being severely
• 15:48
  obvious, you know, like weaving a tale as we're getting
• 15:52
  acquainted with our scenario and where Cyril's at a year later.
• 15:57
  And I just, I really enjoyed that it made it.
• 16:00
  I mean, the the way that this is shot and I'm not even trained
• 16:03
  like you are, but I just, it's just a piece of art.
• 16:07
  It really shows. You're so right.
• 16:09
  It's so seamless to take him from his.
• 16:12
  Really. The sets are so cool.
• 16:14
  That apartment was so cool. Beautiful, it really was.
• 16:18
  Like all the design. At the office.
• 16:21
  Yes. But it had that empire feel of
• 16:23
  like when you're in the ship invaders on that walkway and the
• 16:26
  computer people are down below him.
• 16:28
  The people of the empire always have to be some sort of raised
• 16:32
  up compared to the the, you know, the peasants that work for
• 16:35
  them. Even Cyril.
• 16:37
  Cyril on the ramp above while everybody else is sunk below.
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  It's it's the only time, the only time he's ever going to be
• 16:46
  above anybody. I.
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  Guess well and it's all in his head.
• 16:49
  He thinks he's something that he's not, but very true.
• 16:52
  There's like the whole set. I was researching it because the
• 16:55
  set was so freaking amazing and the town square is a full
• 16:59
  functioning set that they built in the back lot at Pinewood
• 17:02
  Studios and it's got storefronts that are real as well.
• 17:07
  So the I can't remember what they call it now.
• 17:10
  The weavery you know the shop with all the fabrics.
• 17:13
  The House of whatever their name was.
• 17:15
  Rylands, Yes, yeah, yeah. And the hotel, the cafe, they're
• 17:20
  actually things you can walk off the town square into those
• 17:25
  shops. How fucking cool is that?
• 17:30
  That's pretty cool. But the language, I was looking
• 17:32
  that up too because. Yeah, what was it?
• 17:35
  It's so like your brain is like, I feel like I've heard this
• 17:38
  before. It's based on the phonetics of
• 17:41
  French. OK, I thought it sounded very
• 17:44
  French, but I I'm like there's something, it's a little bit
• 17:47
  off. It sounds it.
• 17:49
  It sounded French. Well, sometimes there was, there
• 17:51
  were, there were words that sounded German to me as well.
• 17:54
  But they, they said that they actually developed the, the
• 17:57
  actor who plays Rylands, which I cannot remember his first name,
• 18:00
  but that head of the Gorman, he's a German actor and his name
• 18:06
  is Richard Semel. And he was talking about how
• 18:08
  they created every word like they invented a language based
• 18:13
  on phonetics. And it was, he said it was
• 18:15
  really similar to Esperantu. It's based on a real language.
• 18:19
  It'll sound familiar to you, but it's supposed to be easy that
• 18:21
  anyone could pick up. So all these actors who most of
• 18:25
  them are actually French and he's German, had to learn this
• 18:29
  other fucking fake language, right?
• 18:32
  Isn't it crazy that that? Blows my mind 'cause they were
• 18:36
  speaking it so like easily, effortlessly.
• 18:40
  Wow. It was so good and it's it's
• 18:44
  intended to again put you in mind of the French Resistance,
• 18:48
  they said, Tony Gilroy said in an interview he did with Andor.
• 18:53
  Oh God, what was it called? It was like some deep dive that
• 18:56
  he did with starwars.com and he was saying that it's on purpose.
• 19:01
  Like the costumes are based on French and Northern Italian
• 19:06
  clothes in the 1930s and 40's. The wool jackets, then the the
• 19:11
  caps, you know that people are wearing or the berets that
• 19:14
  people are wearing, the cafes with the espresso machines and
• 19:20
  the language. It's all supposed to put you in
• 19:22
  mind of the French Resistance, OK, Which I think, you know,
• 19:27
  they did a good job. Yeah, I I pretty much got all
• 19:30
  that. So when you hear Cyril talking
• 19:34
  with his mother, he's telling her she's listening to too much
• 19:38
  propaganda. He's seeing things in person.
• 19:40
  These Gorman are no threat to the Empire.
• 19:42
  Did you believe him or did you think he was lying when you
• 19:45
  first heard it? I guess I didn't feel one way or
• 19:48
  another. I I guess I don't.
• 19:50
  I didn't believe him. It was just, it didn't strike me
• 19:52
  one way or another. Should I have?
• 19:54
  Would you feel? Well at first I was like Oh well
• 19:56
  that's an interesting perspective.
• 19:58
  Maybe he's gonna see the truth of the empire and switch sides.
• 20:02
  And then within like 2 minutes I'm like Nah he's full of shit.
• 20:06
  I mean, he's always full of shit, so I guess I I didn't take
• 20:10
  it as. I don't know.
• 20:11
  I guess I quickly kind of picked up that he's, he's saying all
• 20:15
  this on purpose because he suspects someone is listening
• 20:18
  and it's, it's a setup. This, that right there.
• 20:23
  And this whole interwoven storyline is very complicated
• 20:28
  and very smart. Yeah.
• 20:30
  Because when it finally came to be that you recognize what the
• 20:35
  hell is going on between all of them, I was like, damn, the
• 20:39
  writing on this show is fucking great.
• 20:42
  Like I, I guess there was a, a point in there where I was like,
• 20:48
  I knew it, but like, it wasn't. Yeah, I don't know how to give
• 20:53
  voice to this. What I'm trying to say is it's
• 20:56
  just very smart writing because for a minute there, I didn't
• 20:59
  know quite how it was going to tie to the to get tied together.
• 21:03
  And then it did. And it resulted in it was
• 21:05
  episode 6, so. Yeah, and it's it's more layered
• 21:09
  than we think, because the Gourmet front thinks one thing,
• 21:13
  Cyril is doing another thing, Deidre is playing Cyril, but for
• 21:17
  party gas in a way that Cyril doesn't even know.
• 21:20
  It's so tiered. I don't know how we're going to
• 21:23
  keep track of it all. I know it's brilliant.
• 21:26
  It really is, and they executed it fairly well without it
• 21:30
  getting in the weeds 'cause it could have easily gotten too
• 21:34
  much. But I think that's where talent
• 21:37
  comes in. So I credit these everyone
• 21:42
  involved for being talented to execute all of this.
• 21:45
  But yeah, yeah, it's a it's a tangled web we weave, a nod to
• 21:50
  the spiders. And there was a shot web.
• 21:53
  Yeah, there was a shot of a spider in a glass ball weaving
• 21:58
  something and I said, Oh well, there it is.
• 22:00
  Yeah. The web we all weave, including
• 22:06
  this story so. Yeah, maybe you've been trapping
• 22:08
  ourselves a little bit in the process.
• 22:10
  Don't, I don't want to see those things, looking at those fake,
• 22:14
  the fake things that were the fake spider for the Taurus.
• 22:19
  I didn't like that. I don't don't like it either.
• 22:21
  But I do feel bad for them because we know what's coming.
• 22:24
  They're the innocent in all this, God damn it.
• 22:27
  Well, there's, there's so much back and forth between,
• 22:31
  especially in the beginning here between Cassian and Bix and then
• 22:35
  what's going on on Gorman. And it's an interesting
• 22:40
  juxtaposition, you know, because they're they're very different
• 22:44
  culturally and that they're going to overlap it at a certain
• 22:47
  point. But it's like Cassian and Bix
• 22:50
  are just trying to go grocery shopping.
• 22:53
  Yeah. And Cyril is getting neck deep
• 22:56
  in an underground rebellion. It's.
• 23:00
  Did you happen to notice the quote about Tarkin and the 500
• 23:03
  dead in the Plaza? Oh yeah, yeah, I actually looked
• 23:07
  it up. That was the Legends reference,
• 23:10
  so it they did hold to the timeline of it happening at the
• 23:15
  very beginning of the Empire. So they are.
• 23:19
  I am assuming whatever ends up happening with Gorman is their
• 23:24
  own slice of what ends up totally annihilating all of
• 23:27
  these people. I think it's whatever's been
• 23:29
  referenced in Rebels. Oh yeah, I forgot about Rebel.
• 23:33
  Yeah. So yeah, I know because I only
• 23:35
  watched it one time. Don't hate me.
• 23:37
  Yeah, I guess it's already like the Gorman massacre is a
• 23:40
  reference, and that is the other thing.
• 23:42
  So we know what happens. We know they're putting their
• 23:47
  trust in Cyril and he is going to betray them.
• 23:50
  But we also know it doesn't matter what they do.
• 23:54
  Even if they have this small success, ultimately it still
• 23:57
  results in this horrific, you know, massacre, which a best, I
• 24:01
  guess, is what's propelling Manmathma, you know, further
• 24:06
  into her rebellion plot line. So it we, we as an audience know
• 24:11
  what's coming and the characters don't know.
• 24:13
  And it's pretty right. Hard to watch all this unfolding
• 24:17
  knowing how it's going to end. Do we want to talk about Mon
• 24:21
  Mothma's section of Episode 4 at this point?
• 24:25
  How she's kind of, she's persuading the editors or Mon
• 24:29
  Mothma is trying to persuade, not getting.
• 24:32
  Far Yeah, that was it was giving me like heart palpitations,
• 24:37
  right? To see someone trying so hard to
• 24:40
  fight for liberty for everyone. And people might agree with her,
• 24:45
  might want to vote with her, and still won't because they're
• 24:48
  afraid of retaliation from Palpatine.
• 24:51
  It's so infuriating. And I have a quote here, it says
• 24:55
  voting against the Empire is not in our best interest.
• 24:58
  And I have the implication of this kind of talk scares the
• 25:03
  shit out of me and it should scare everybody else.
• 25:05
  Yeah. Because if that's how this is
• 25:08
  going, we know. We know Palpatine, Sidious, all
• 25:14
  this shit. But like, this is down to the
• 25:18
  the people who have influence. And they're not influencing
• 25:21
  because they're afraid of the person that they work for
• 25:23
  retaliating. It's not good, not good.
• 25:25
  And it should scare people. That kind of shit is not good.
• 25:29
  And it's only going to get worse, you know, from here, as
• 25:32
  we know. As we know.
• 25:35
  I mean the fact that Tarkin can crush a whole town square of
• 25:41
  humans and there's no repercussion for that.
• 25:46
  In fact, they remained, they remained peaceful and built a
• 25:51
  memorial and went on with their lives.
• 25:53
  And of course there's like an undercurrent of fear, but I
• 25:59
  mean, like they could have launched into an alt, but I
• 26:02
  mean, the Empire is only gaining strength and, and numbers at
• 26:07
  this point. Pick your battle sort of thing.
• 26:10
  And they chose not to. And that's I get it.
• 26:13
  Yeah. But like, this kind of tyranny
• 26:16
  is fucking frightening on so many levels.
• 26:19
  On the fact that they kept a Senate as like a puppet,
• 26:24
  basically, they're there for a show.
• 26:25
  They're not there to actually really do anything.
• 26:29
  Well, what does that remind you of?
• 26:33
  Fuck. Yeah.
• 26:35
  Also, every time I hear you Lauren's name referenced, I want
• 26:38
  to cry inside I. Know.
• 26:40
  Seriously. My God, ladies.
• 26:45
  He was one of the good guys. He was.
• 26:48
  He was with us. He was on our side.
• 26:50
  God. Damn it how he can have been you
• 26:53
  know what he was in the Clone Wars and then still see the
• 26:57
  Empire as a positive. Thing he's he's a he's he's one
• 27:02
  of those guys that like does his position has always done this
• 27:06
  position, does it well and can't probably envision a life outside
• 27:10
  of doing that. So he just does it for whoever
• 27:12
  will take him, which sucks. Yeah, I mean he.
• 27:16
  Makes me sad. He really seems like a true
• 27:20
  believer though at the same time and like he seemed to be in the
• 27:25
  Republic as well. Yeah, just you, Lauren makes me
• 27:28
  sad. Oh, it's.
• 27:29
  Interesting you mentioned him because he was mentioned by
• 27:31
  party guys during their USB meeting, which again, oh, I love
• 27:35
  those so much. But Lonnie, Lonnie's really
• 27:38
  getting to shine in these episodes.
• 27:42
  I, I enjoy the way they, you just never sure who you could
• 27:50
  trust in those meetings. And I, I find it interesting
• 27:52
  that someone turned to him and was like, thank you for saying
• 27:55
  that. Like, if you hadn't said it, I
• 27:56
  don't know what would have happened, you know, And then for
• 28:00
  party guests to take it and say like, thank you for reminding us
• 28:04
  what the conversations are supposed to be in this room,
• 28:07
  right? Also unexpected.
• 28:09
  Instead of everyone just getting chewed out, you know, for being
• 28:13
  bad at their jobs, It's it's really supposed to be like a
• 28:16
  think tank, you know, evil think tank.
• 28:20
  But still like they're supposed to be able to have a place where
• 28:24
  they say unpopular things. And it's already showing how
• 28:29
  there's like a fear of speaking up even in the ISB now.
• 28:35
  I think that's very interesting, those scenes are, it's season 1
• 28:39
  and it's just like so deeply fascinating to watch the ISB.
• 28:44
  In particular, it was it was good to be back at the round
• 28:46
  table. Deidra is just I know her name
• 28:51
  is pronounced Deidra, but I Deidra just comes out.
• 28:54
  So don't kill me Deidra. But she can slice someone open
• 29:00
  with just a look. She's extremely good at acting
• 29:05
  this part. I think it would be very fun to
• 29:08
  play her character. She is so, like, brittle in this
• 29:13
  intense season. Yeah, the way that now, who used
• 29:18
  to be her assistant is now the head of the access desk, and she
• 29:23
  doesn't like that. No, no, no, no, no.
• 29:27
  Oh, about the computers. Back on Gorman in Cyril's little
• 29:32
  office. I looked it up.
• 29:35
  His little green computer, his main like communication dock.
• 29:39
  There is a computer from the 1970s.
• 29:42
  It's a singular unit where the keyboard is connected into the.
• 29:46
  I said I know this is from a certain year and I looked it up.
• 29:50
  That's amazing. It's way off at first, but it's
• 29:51
  from it's harkening back to the 1970s.
• 29:55
  So, you know, very they took something old and made it new
• 29:58
  again. I love it.
• 30:00
  Well, it's kind of like how they used they used a Polaroid camera
• 30:04
  for mimics like thing in in season 1 and everyone who's
• 30:10
  who's from the 80s was like, I know what?
• 30:11
  That is, I know that well, kind of like an ice cream.
• 30:16
  Wasn't it an ice cream maker in Empire Strikes Back?
• 30:20
  Yes and now that's like a big cosplay.
• 30:22
  You know, people do that. I.
• 30:25
  Love it so much. So we're carrying on the
• 30:28
  tradition of just taking old appliances and making them new.
• 30:31
  Again, it's recycling. Yes.
• 30:35
  So we we go back to Dakar, it makes its return from The Force
• 30:39
  Awakens. Is that what that was?
• 30:41
  I thought it looked just so familiar.
• 30:43
  Yes, that's where Leia and Ray hug and Leia meets Han again and
• 30:49
  meets up with them and, and they have their the thing going on
• 30:53
  there and. That explains why they said they
• 30:56
  used the Force Awakens set in the back lot.
• 31:00
  Yeah, I. Was like, oh.
• 31:02
  It's not back. It's because it's actually the
• 31:04
  place. OK, that makes sense.
• 31:07
  Yeah, that. Oh my God, Saw Guerrera seems
• 31:09
  crazier than ever. I am in love with Forest
• 31:15
  Whitaker right now because he personifies unstable in like
• 31:22
  like instability personified. Just I don't know how else to
• 31:26
  say it. He's just unstable, but he's he
• 31:29
  might be the smartest one of all of them.
• 31:32
  He's on top of it. He knows his people, he knows
• 31:35
  who's inside, who's outside, who's a who's a fake.
• 31:40
  He has plans. He's got eyes everywhere, man.
• 31:44
  It's interesting to see because it devolves into paranoia by the
• 31:48
  time he gets to Rogue One, because then he's remember when
• 31:52
  Jin shows up and he's like, you've arrived here on today of
• 31:56
  all days. It's a trap.
• 31:58
  But she's like, what's a trap? What are you talking about?
• 32:00
  And it's like, 'cause he's, he's become so suspicious, but he's
• 32:05
  not wrong in this, this episode block.
• 32:09
  No. He's terrifying.
• 32:11
  He I just, I was, I was just in love, I wrote here.
• 32:15
  Forest Whitaker is brilliant and usual scares the shit out of me.
• 32:21
  That sums it up pretty good. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:23
  But I mean, he runs a tight ship.
• 32:25
  We know this, he's been in this a long time.
• 32:28
  We'll talk about that. I I really enjoyed his bit on in
• 32:31
  episode 5. Yeah, yes, very interesting.
• 32:37
  Well, so Luthan asked Cassian to go to Gorman and do an appraisal
• 32:44
  and that's kind of like where they end on this episode.
• 32:47
  But there was this beautiful and also like borderline weird like
• 32:52
  hand sex scene between him and Bix which.
• 32:57
  I kind of liked it because it was intimacy on a like our hands
• 33:02
  are very, they don't, first of all, they don't get enough
• 33:04
  recognition for what they do every single day.
• 33:07
  There's a shit ton of nerve endings in our hands, and they
• 33:11
  are probably the least loved of all of our groups.
• 33:14
  Even though they're in front of us at all times, they're doing
• 33:16
  stuff at all times, and a simple human touch can be so much more
• 33:21
  deep. I'm going way.
• 33:23
  Overboard with this but I I really loved that scene because
• 33:26
  it was intimacy without it being intimate like.
• 33:31
  The. The sex type, right?
• 33:34
  Yeah, yeah, I saw someone wrote about that on Tumblr where it
• 33:37
  was instead of, you know, being naked in bed and.
• 33:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gratuitous.
• 33:44
  It was more intimate, I think. Because totally.
• 33:48
  Yeah. And, and they were saying maybe
• 33:50
  it's some sort of Farex tradition or something like
• 33:53
  that, like. The way they the way they did it
• 33:56
  was kind of inside out on each one's hand.
• 34:00
  Yeah, they each had their own pattern.
• 34:02
  They were dry. Yeah, I noticed.
• 34:04
  I fucking love that. I fucking love shit like that.
• 34:08
  Yeah, I thought it was really it at first.
• 34:10
  I was kind of like, it's kind of funny, but also I love it.
• 34:12
  It was like a very beautiful, intimate moment that I I really
• 34:16
  appreciate that they took time to have these kind of small
• 34:20
  intimate moments of these episodes.
• 34:21
  And there's so much that Bix and Cassian kind of disagree.
• 34:26
  They're not really disagreeing there.
• 34:28
  There's tension between them because of Cassian apparently
• 34:31
  killed somebody who saw Bix's face, and that made Bix really
• 34:36
  uncomfortable. And so that that's kind of this
• 34:38
  recurring issue that comes up between them.
• 34:40
  But what I loved again with Tony Gilroy, instead of like, do you
• 34:44
  remember in Season 1, the of course I'm afraid, but I don't
• 34:49
  let that stop me from taking action.
• 34:50
  And instead of that scene becoming a pissing contest, it
• 34:53
  became something more intellectual.
• 34:55
  And I feel like that with Bixon Cassian, any other writer would
• 34:58
  have turned this into escalating conflict where they would have
• 35:01
  yelled at each other. There was, there would have been
• 35:04
  something that got too emotional and not rational.
• 35:07
  And instead what you see the characters doing, even though
• 35:10
  there's conflict, you see them continuously trying to reconnect
• 35:14
  and stay connected with each other.
• 35:17
  Even though there's this tension, they're they're still
• 35:20
  giving each other a lot of compassion and trying to like
• 35:23
  meet each other halfway, which is so fucking refreshing.
• 35:26
  It is. It's so rare to see a
• 35:30
  relationship on in a television show, even though this is to me
• 35:35
  way more elevated than a television.
• 35:37
  Show damn I this is better than many movies.
• 35:41
  Yeah, I mean, like it's easy to resort to the conflict.
• 35:45
  It's more interesting, in my opinion, to see these people
• 35:49
  trying to succeed in an intimacy in the middle of this war and
• 35:55
  them spying and PTSD and all this conflict.
• 36:00
  And it escalates up with Luthan's interference later,
• 36:03
  which we'll get to. Oh, yeah.
• 36:05
  It's just really refreshing, honestly.
• 36:08
  And beautiful. Yeah.
• 36:09
  It's a nice tenderness. It The tenderness is missing
• 36:12
  from a lot of the rest of the story.
• 36:14
  So I'm glad that we have these quiet, smaller moments with them
• 36:17
  at least. I couldn't agree more, truly.
• 36:21
  And like, the opposite of them is, is Cyril and Deidra.
• 36:26
  Deidra and Cyril, Yeah. You have one hour.
• 36:30
  Seriously, and even when they they have their quick communique
• 36:34
  where they're they're they have a quick conversation over video,
• 36:37
  there is no intimacy there. No, it's just like zero.
• 36:41
  Were you careful? Not because I'm worried about
• 36:43
  you, because I'm worried you're going to expose our OP, you
• 36:47
  know? Exactly.
• 36:48
  It's I love and then even 1 mothma with her husband.
• 36:51
  The different relationships we're getting are very
• 36:55
  interesting and I I'm enjoying it.
• 36:58
  I really don't like paren in any way shape or form.
• 37:02
  But there's this moment. I don't remember what episode
• 37:05
  it's in. It's probably 6, actually.
• 37:09
  Maybe it's 6. I don't know.
• 37:10
  They're in the car and they're speaking, and there's this flash
• 37:14
  of a moment where you could see that maybe one day when they
• 37:17
  were first together, they actually were a good couple.
• 37:21
  Yeah, I mean, yeah. And then politics.
• 37:24
  And yeah. Were grown apart and maybe
• 37:27
  they've kind of seen what the other is capable of and they
• 37:29
  don't like that. But there are these.
• 37:31
  There was even in the last arc, there's just a little moment
• 37:35
  where they were having a conversation.
• 37:37
  I was like, that was pleasant. And then it immediately became
• 37:39
  unpleasant. But did you notice that Mon took
• 37:43
  that necklace off, which was almost like a chain around her
• 37:47
  neck? Like a, like a noose, like a,
• 37:50
  like a class. Holler.
• 37:52
  Yeah, I was. I was like, oh, OK, I see what
• 37:55
  you're. I see what we're doing here.
• 37:56
  It was gold, of course. The gilded Cage.
• 37:58
  Resurfaces, but exactly. So I'm calling headquarters is
• 38:04
  the new I'm calling corporate and Cyril is the new Karen cuz
• 38:10
  when he's being taken out, I think this is in episode 5 and
• 38:13
  they come in to, you know, wipe the, the communication things in
• 38:19
  there. I'm calling headquarters.
• 38:21
  I said bitch. Karens have been calling
• 38:23
  headquarters quote corporate for years.
• 38:29
  You know, he puts on a really Oscar where they perform and
• 38:32
  says, doesn't he? And I don't mean the actor
• 38:35
  because I mean, yes, color Kyle Soler is fucking amazing.
• 38:37
  I mean, Cyril is really having to.
• 38:40
  Perform a lot. Truly truly.
• 38:44
  He loves it though. This is the moment he's been
• 38:46
  waiting for and he even says it what in like episode 6.
• 38:49
  So I just think it's like he just loves every second of this
• 38:54
  shit. Loves it.
• 38:56
  It's his time to shine. It's the moment he thinks he's
• 38:58
  been afforded and has earned, and he's smiling all through.
• 39:04
  We'll get there, We'll get there.
• 39:05
  I mean, he he thinks that he's born for some sort of greatness.
• 39:09
  And even though he's done nothing great, he still talks
• 39:12
  really big about himself even in like episode 2, one or two
• 39:16
  whenever he first appears in this season.
• 39:18
  It's like, are you fucking kidding me, dude?
• 39:20
  You've done nothing but get fired.
• 39:22
  You got fired. Gorman's the Gorman's like
• 39:25
  nailed him and they only had a case file and they had him
• 39:29
  already like, oh, he's he's a he's a limp noodle.
• 39:31
  We can get him, you know, Like, I mean, they were kind of wrong,
• 39:35
  but they judged the very few bullet points that they had
• 39:39
  about this guy fairly accurately.
• 39:41
  They just didn't know he was a complete fucking scumbag traitor
• 39:44
  loser. Well, and how interesting that
• 39:47
  they thought his experience with Morlana was like what turned him
• 39:52
  against the Empire. Yeah, and crazy.
• 39:55
  How crazy is it that it didn't the the ISB came in and shamed
• 40:01
  him on Murlana and he wants to work for them like it's the
• 40:04
  greatest thing of all. Yeah, he is.
• 40:06
  Well, he's never, psychologically speaking, and
• 40:09
  I'm no psychologist, so please don't.
• 40:11
  He's never been able to prove himself to his mother.
• 40:14
  We don't know where the father is, so father's out.
• 40:17
  He's never been able to prove himself to another woman.
• 40:20
  And now he's never been able to prove himself in his job, so
• 40:23
  he's just dying to, I don't know, get some sort of
• 40:27
  recognition, even though it's been all the wrong recognition
• 40:31
  and he's being a, he's a pawn in this whole fucking thing.
• 40:34
  Crazy. Even still, like he, he's so
• 40:37
  desperate to please Party Gaz and he doesn't realize they're
• 40:41
  playing. Him.
• 40:43
  It's really sad. I mean, it would be sad if I
• 40:46
  liked him. I mean, it's very entertaining,
• 40:50
  that's for sure. But it it does make me hate him
• 40:53
  a bit. I mean, we're supposed to hate
• 40:56
  him, but like, Even so. And there's this line later with
• 41:00
  Party Guys, I think. Is it in this season?
• 41:02
  Maybe it's in the next or not season episode.
• 41:04
  Maybe it's the next one. Oh, it is this episode, he says.
• 41:08
  Party Guys. Yeah, it's five, he says about
• 41:12
  the Gorman front. They're inexperienced but very
• 41:14
  eager, and part, I guess, says how often those attributes
• 41:18
  align. And he's talking about Cyril.
• 41:20
  Exactly right over his fucking head and.
• 41:24
  Cyril has no idea it's. Just it's like.
• 41:30
  Poor idiot. Maybe one day he'll get it soon.
• 41:35
  So it makes me wonder though, like with him and Deidre.
• 41:39
  Deidre is faking the whole fucking thing.
• 41:41
  I knew it when when in the first set of episodes I said this is
• 41:45
  some sort of relationship of convenience.
• 41:47
  Cyril probably thinks, wow, she actually does like me, she
• 41:51
  respects me, that's why she's putting me on the front line.
• 41:54
  No bitch, she hates you. She's she recognized immediately
• 42:00
  that you were so desperate for approval you would do anything
• 42:03
  she told you. Yeah, and he did.
• 42:06
  And that sucks. It makes me even wonder it kind
• 42:09
  of like make me re evaluate her conversation with Edie saying
• 42:13
  that I will guarantee he calls you because did she already have
• 42:18
  it planned that he was going to be a Dorman calling her and
• 42:21
  they're feeding information to the rebellion like.
• 42:24
  I didn't think of that, but that was part of it.
• 42:26
  I bet you any money she had Edie come over to, like, start that
• 42:32
  ball rolling. Yeah, she didn't want to do it,
• 42:34
  but she had to do it. She had to.
• 42:37
  Because she even said we cannot reschedule.
• 42:39
  Yeah, yeah. It's, I mean, it's a lot of
• 42:42
  premeditation, but with someone like Deidre, I believe it's.
• 42:44
  Possible she'll go to any length at this point and she still has
• 42:49
  Cassian on her brain. She even said, Oh my God.
• 42:52
  And they were so close. Like Cassian was in the the trap
• 42:57
  almost. And then he he got out and I'm
• 42:59
  really glad he got out. I know I was like, at what point
• 43:01
  are their paths going to cross? It's going to happen.
• 43:04
  I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the next arc.
• 43:08
  But something's got to happen because there's going to be a
• 43:10
  divide. There has to be.
• 43:12
  Whatever happens with Gorman is going to split.
• 43:14
  Yeah, yeah. Who needs to be split?
• 43:16
  There's got to be a moment where Cassian and or Cyril see each
• 43:21
  other right across that town square.
• 43:24
  Yeah. I feel like that's got to happen
• 43:26
  at some point, man. But can we just, can we just
• 43:31
  please talk about Varian Sky? Cassian is serving couture
• 43:39
  realness. He was serving looks.
• 43:46
  He had the Cape, he had the polished shoes.
• 43:49
  He had the feathered hair or the whatever that the the the round
• 43:53
  rolled brush, the rolled. Yeah.
• 43:57
  The round brush airbrush. Yeah.
• 44:00
  Fucking serving. And now we know where that
• 44:02
  hairstyle came from. From the very first teaser
• 44:05
  trailer where you ever saw Oh. My God.
• 44:07
  Yeah. The the star.
• 44:09
  I knew you were Tuxedo. I knew.
• 44:10
  Oh my God. It was the greatest episode of
• 44:12
  my life. Well, I'm glad to see you happy.
• 44:19
  See what I did there? Yeah.
• 44:20
  Yeah, you were. Cyril.
• 44:21
  I'm Deidre. OK.
• 44:22
  Yeah, you're welcome. Nice to see you happy, dear.
• 44:29
  So awkward. But I mean it, I'm I'm this was
• 44:32
  good shit. And the fact that he was
• 44:34
  schooling them. Oh my God, everything about
• 44:37
  Cassian in these episodes was so much more like Cassian in Rogue
• 44:42
  One than Cassian in season 1 where he's so far away from that
• 44:46
  version of himself. Well, it really showcases again
• 44:49
  how he's real savvy and why he ends up being like one of the
• 44:53
  top dude. You know, every time he's right.
• 44:58
  Every single time. Whether it's something between
• 45:00
  he observes about Bix to something he's observing about
• 45:04
  this group of rebels in the jungle to people here on Gorman.
• 45:08
  Why doesn't anyone listen to him?
• 45:12
  Nobody asks how is Cassie. Exactly.
• 45:17
  He has all the answers. He's he can snuff it out at this
• 45:20
  point. He's keeping it together better
• 45:22
  than Lutheran is. He is and I think that's so this
• 45:28
  is jumping ahead. I guess I'll I'll hold off till
• 45:30
  we get I'll. Hold.
• 45:32
  Off yeah. Anyway, so I I actually there is
• 45:37
  a real World War Two person called Varian Fry who I wonder
• 45:44
  if was just as a slight reference for this character
• 45:49
  because they don't do the same thing.
• 45:51
  But Varian Fry was a journalist and was an American, and he
• 45:55
  placed himself in Nazi occupied France and helped mostly, you
• 46:00
  know, intellectuals and artists and scholars escape, but other
• 46:03
  people as well escape, I think, to Britain.
• 46:07
  And then eventually the United States was like, you can't keep
• 46:10
  doing this. It's suspicious as fuck.
• 46:12
  And they pulled him out of France.
• 46:13
  He wasn't there with their permission.
• 46:15
  He was there with a private organization.
• 46:18
  So there's a real person that seems like kind of a reference.
• 46:23
  The name Varian is not a very common name.
• 46:26
  It's spelled exactly the same. Way.
• 46:28
  Oh interesting, I didn't know any of this.
• 46:30
  Love it. Yeah, it's very interesting.
• 46:32
  And obviously Cassian is not there to help refugees escape,
• 46:37
  so maybe in the next episode he will be.
• 46:40
  But right now he's just a fashion designer.
• 46:44
  He is first timer, dreamt about this his whole life.
• 46:49
  In fact, I spotted another star cruiser prop.
• 46:55
  Did you really? I did the glasses in the bar
• 47:00
  that Cassian was drinking from. I had a cocktail at the Star
• 47:09
  Cruiser in that glass. I know I did.
• 47:11
  I have a picture of it. It had glitter in it because it
• 47:15
  was like a galactic something or other.
• 47:17
  Had edible glitter in it is in that glass.
• 47:21
  Now listen, it could be just a prop company somewhere who
• 47:24
  produces, you know what I mean? But like I said, I know that
• 47:28
  fucking glass because I drank something out of it.
• 47:30
  So we're back to the Star Cruiser at Easter Eggs.
• 47:33
  I mean, it'd be really nice if they were, you know, recycling
• 47:36
  that stuff and not just throwing.
• 47:37
  It away it would be nice, truly nice yes put.
• 47:40
  IT in their prop department. Why not?
• 47:42
  I loved that whole sequence with him in the hotel talking to the
• 47:45
  bellhop. Me too.
• 47:47
  I felt for the bellhop. I did too, but there was the
• 47:50
  there's the symmetry of the bellhop and Cassian's own
• 47:53
  experiences, because he's talking about how they were this
• 47:57
  group of people and his father saved him and was killed saving
• 48:02
  him, and Cassian's standing there listening with not too
• 48:06
  much give it away in his eyes. That's what happened with his
• 48:09
  father, with Clem. Yeah.
• 48:11
  And it was, it was just a really beautiful symmetry there.
• 48:16
  But I actually looked up the reference they're making to
• 48:19
  Tarkin on Wikipedia because I I was wondering if this is the
• 48:23
  Gorman massacre, but it's not. It is what you were talking
• 48:26
  about before. So now they're like separating
• 48:28
  them as two separate elements. And it said in 19 BBY.
• 48:32
  Shortly after the proclamation of the Galactic Empire, protests
• 48:36
  emerged on the planet Gorman in the capital city of Palmo.
• 48:40
  During the unrest, Wilhoff Tarkin attempted to land his
• 48:43
  cruiser on a landing pad, only to be met by protesters flooding
• 48:46
  the landing area. In the hopes of preventing his
• 48:48
  landing. Tarkin landed the ship.
• 48:51
  Yeah, instead Tarkin landed the ship directly on top of the
• 48:54
  protesters, killing 500 of them, an event that they became known
• 48:58
  as the Tarkin Massacre. Dear God, what the fuck?
• 49:03
  This this bitch. Seriously, Tarkin is so evil.
• 49:10
  He sees a bunch of people and he's like, you know what?
• 49:14
  Fucking floor it right down on top of him.
• 49:18
  In character for him, it is honestly right on par.
• 49:21
  Yeah, I. Just 500 people's probably
• 49:24
  nothing to him. Oh yeah, and the thing that's
• 49:28
  interesting that gets reflected later is it's also nothing to
• 49:32
  Lutheran. It is.
• 49:34
  I know. Yeah, I know.
• 49:37
  But how do we feel about this? This is all it is is this is a
• 49:43
  big conversation that starts the beginning of episode 6 and.
• 49:48
  Yeah, we're not there yet. Sorry.
• 49:49
  I. Just no.
• 49:50
  But it's I know I we're clearly both like itching to talk about.
• 49:54
  It because it's important. It's I, I mean, we, we should
• 49:58
  talk about him coming to visit Bix first because that is in
• 50:02
  episode 5. That's true.
• 50:04
  Yeah. I was.
• 50:05
  Here's the thing, and this means it's good acting.
• 50:08
  I didn't trust him coming in there.
• 50:11
  Yeah, I felt, I felt kind of like if I would have been Bix,
• 50:15
  I'd have I know that they're they know each other.
• 50:18
  They've been working with each other.
• 50:20
  But she even said to him, you came here for either something
• 50:24
  you want. And he was just, he was just
• 50:28
  taking a Paul's check on like, what's the situation?
• 50:30
  Because Cassian kind of let out, let on that things weren't good.
• 50:35
  But the way he like, went through the room and he was
• 50:38
  trying to pretend like he was reminiscing, but he was checking
• 50:41
  for shit. And then he found her drugs and,
• 50:44
  and all this stuff. And I'm just like, I would tell
• 50:46
  him to leave. It was kind of like Lutheran is
• 50:48
  becoming, well, paranoid, I mean.
• 50:51
  Yeah. And he has a good point, he
• 50:54
  says. There's too many things I can't
• 50:56
  keep track. It was easier when they were
• 50:58
  smaller, sure, but they want to become bigger.
• 51:01
  But it's like, who? I feel for him because of the
• 51:07
  number of things he has to keep track of.
• 51:09
  And he, he's playing a part in the Senate and there's the shit
• 51:13
  going on with the fake, the forgery.
• 51:16
  God, I know I'm so stressful. And what's her name with the
• 51:20
  with the hair that's blue. She's like trying to like get it
• 51:25
  together. Lutheran and it's very rare
• 51:27
  where Lutherans the one that needs to get it together.
• 51:30
  So we start to see his ends becoming frayed and I don't
• 51:33
  really blame him. This is the realness of this
• 51:35
  character. It can I just the way that this
• 51:39
  is taking a toll on people, it's no wonder that we're going to go
• 51:43
  through phases of the rebellion because, yeah, it becomes too
• 51:47
  much for the first phase and then the second phase, like the
• 51:50
  Man Mothmas, the Leo or Ghanas, etcetera, take over and then
• 51:54
  it's the next phase, you know? And yeah, God, that's true.
• 51:58
  And he kind of couches his presence there as just checking
• 52:04
  on her, like whether he was doing gonna ask her for a
• 52:08
  weapons analysis or not. I think he's really, there's
• 52:13
  like a premeditation there. He just wants her healthy as a
• 52:18
  body, as a soldier, not for her own well-being.
• 52:22
  And the very fact that he went there without telling Cassian
• 52:26
  this again comes into play more in the next episode.
• 52:28
  But I think he's sowing seeds to put a wedge between them.
• 52:36
  He does not want relationships at work, and I don't blame him
• 52:40
  because obviously it's creating divides where there weren't any.
• 52:44
  But Cassian said it in the next episode.
• 52:47
  Like, we're not just robots, we're not droids if they.
• 52:53
  That's the thing about human connection.
• 52:55
  The higher the stakes, the more people want to feel like it's
• 52:58
  worth it. Yeah, they're doing it for some
• 53:01
  reason. And if you don't allow people to
• 53:04
  connect and stuff, I mean, not everyone can be like you,
• 53:06
  Lutheran. When I I think that really comes
• 53:10
  in becomes visible with Cassie and when he's interviewing the
• 53:14
  bellhop and then again later when he's talking to Enza at the
• 53:18
  cafe, when she comes in and starts talking and he's like,
• 53:21
  what are you doing? You know, the dialogue is not
• 53:25
  just to put her in her place. That's not really what he's
• 53:28
  doing. He's giving them a warning.
• 53:30
  Yeah, but he's also, like, immediately evaluating that
• 53:34
  they're way too green and inexperienced to join the larger
• 53:39
  rebellion. And he said, I am who you want
• 53:43
  me to be, but that's just you getting lucky.
• 53:45
  People die rushing. And yeah, I think that what he's
• 53:50
  doing is, yes, he's a soldier. He's evaluating the tactical
• 53:55
  abilities. He's also kind of evaluating the
• 53:59
  humanity of it. I think he's manipulating the
• 54:04
  bellhop a little bit, but then his he he really puts people at
• 54:08
  ease quickly. And I don't think that's
• 54:10
  insincere. It helps him obviously, as a
• 54:13
  spy, but I also think he really does feel things about these
• 54:16
  people. I don't think he's cold hearted
• 54:18
  about it. And again, this will come back
• 54:22
  into that conversation with Lutheran at the beginning of
• 54:24
  Episode 6 because he's thinking of it from a long term like a
• 54:32
  long game, but in a different way than Lutheran is.
• 54:36
  Yeah. And that whole interaction with
• 54:40
  her in the coffee shop, the cafe was so interesting because he's
• 54:44
  going back and forth between being very in sky and it's so
• 54:49
  great to meet you and when can I stop by the shop And like you,
• 54:52
  just put your neck out when you didn't need to.
• 54:55
  You need to be more careful. It was really fun scene.
• 54:59
  I wanted to ask you about this because I know you noticed it.
• 55:03
  The offset shots of them sitting, one was in focus, 1
• 55:08
  wasn't like they were almost there was a depth and then they
• 55:11
  were straight on and then they were off again.
• 55:16
  What was that about? Because I loved it.
• 55:17
  Sometimes what they do is they'll show the individual
• 55:20
  characters when they are not on that same page.
• 55:22
  So they'll have Cassie and in his own shot, and then Enza in
• 55:25
  her own shot. And then if they start to get on
• 55:28
  the same page and speak the same language, they'll be in the shot
• 55:31
  together and it shows a. Unit.
• 55:33
  You'd know. Yeah, I knew you would know
• 55:35
  because I was like, this is intentional.
• 55:37
  I have no idea why, but it seems really cool to me.
• 55:40
  I thought it was great. Yeah, I love that kind of stuff.
• 55:43
  And it's not always that because obviously you just have shot and
• 55:48
  then reaction shot, you know, like counter shots.
• 55:50
  Yeah, yeah. But in that scene, it seemed
• 55:52
  very obvious that they were not saying the same things to each
• 55:57
  other. You know, like, she was saying
• 55:59
  one thing and he's like, OK, evaluation, you just got
• 56:05
  yourself killed. Wanna try again?
• 56:07
  Yeah, right, right. Really interesting.
• 56:10
  Just I, I loved the whole sequence in Gorman because
• 56:14
  again, I love watching Cassie and just being a fucking boss,
• 56:17
  like knowing everything and evaluating and and getting there
• 56:21
  before anyone else. But I was also really interested
• 56:23
  in the architecture. So the architecture is actually
• 56:26
  based on Turin in Northern Italy and Mecca and Medina in Saudi
• 56:33
  Arabia. And they're they have like
• 56:38
  textile history and that's actually kind of partially why
• 56:42
  they influenced the architecture as well, which I think is so
• 56:45
  interesting. And then that is Luke Hall, who
• 56:48
  is the designer was saying that the interiors as part of the
• 56:52
  Plaza, like the Gorman Hotel lobby, the Cafe and the clothing
• 56:59
  shop, we're all part of the same set, which I was telling you
• 57:02
  about earlier. They said they built it as one
• 57:04
  composite so action could flow. Like you could see Cassie and
• 57:07
  walk across the square and go into the the store.
• 57:12
  Oh, it's so cool. I love.
• 57:14
  It when they build and use real sets, I.
• 57:17
  Know it makes such a difference in everything about the way it
• 57:24
  feels. It really does look different
• 57:27
  than when you film against the volume and you put like little
• 57:30
  scrub brushes and rocks around to make it look like you're in a
• 57:33
  place like it's not the same. You can tell a person can feel
• 57:36
  it totally. It's on a subconscious level, I
• 57:39
  think. But I also loved what they said.
• 57:43
  Ever done anything like this before?
• 57:45
  And Cassian is like steel. Yeah, right.
• 57:49
  Ever heard of Eldani? True, true.
• 57:55
  Oh my God. Well, OK.
• 57:57
  But then, before we get to the end, we do have to talk about
• 57:59
  the scene with Cyril and Didra and party games.
• 58:02
  Yeah, all together because, yeah, a lot going on there.
• 58:08
  I love how they're in their imperial white uniforms and he's
• 58:12
  in this orange brown suit. Like he's totally it's he's,
• 58:17
  he's part of the crew, but he's not really part of the crew.
• 58:19
  Yeah, he just doesn't belong. He doesn't.
• 58:24
  And he doesn't get it. It's embarrassing.
• 58:27
  The thing I think is so interesting is he is his mother
• 58:32
  in that scene because. Remember, that's true.
• 58:34
  That's a good point. She comes to dinner, she's in
• 58:38
  orange and she doesn't fit in. He's now in Dedra's place, and
• 58:42
  he is the weird one in Orange, sticking out, not fitting in.
• 58:47
  I didn't put any of that together.
• 58:50
  Well done. I don't know if it was on
• 58:54
  purpose, but it feels like it was 'cause they're in the same
• 58:57
  color scheme, so I. Don't know, obvious that he just
• 59:00
  doesn't. Belong yeah, he's just an
• 59:04
  awkward and. To the point of the mother,
• 59:09
  what's her name again? I can't.
• 59:11
  Edie. Edie.
• 59:12
  Edie. Too many goddamn names.
• 59:14
  But the point of Edie is she didn't belong in that
• 59:17
  environment either. She had a personality.
• 59:20
  She had laughter and inside jokes and inside stories and
• 59:26
  lived experience. And these two are just.
• 59:28
  And so it kind of. Yeah.
• 59:30
  Yeah. It, it, it does make you make a
• 59:32
  very valid point about this. Yeah.
• 59:34
  And aren't we all afraid of turning into our parents?
• 59:37
  Well, guess what, Cyril? Guess what?
• 59:42
  He ends up at Mommy's again, eating cereal.
• 59:44
  Oh. My God.
• 59:45
  Yeah. And I, I just love how he turns
• 59:48
  to dead Red. He's like, what would you think?
• 59:50
  I said. This is like the best day of my
• 59:52
  life. Yeah, yeah.
• 59:54
  And she's like, okay, yeah, I'm embarrassed to be with him.
• 1:00:00
  It's nice though, that he was happy.
• 1:00:02
  That's it's a sad moment that that's, he's going to regret
• 1:00:06
  that line. That line is not going to age
• 1:00:08
  well. No, and I'm sure they're just
• 1:00:10
  using him, but also that he's so proud of himself for bringing
• 1:00:13
  down an entire group of people who have taken him into their
• 1:00:16
  confidence and are kind people and good people.
• 1:00:19
  Just what a fucking scumbag. Well, I mean, he it's the same
• 1:00:23
  thing on on Ferrix. He didn't give a damn about any
• 1:00:27
  of them. None of these people give a damn
• 1:00:29
  up. They're all numbers and end
• 1:00:30
  games and oh oh, that was even brought up with Deidre talking
• 1:00:36
  to like the rebel inside in AISB, I think.
• 1:00:42
  Was it him that said it? No, it was.
• 1:00:44
  Or was it something else? And they're like, no, it was
• 1:00:46
  some other guy. He said to her, what if he put
• 1:00:48
  me on this project because I'm not interested in all the fame
• 1:00:53
  and the glory? That was such a good scene.
• 1:00:56
  Yeah. I know she's trying to tempt him
• 1:00:59
  with you can have all the glory and he's like, that's not what
• 1:01:01
  I'm doing this for, which is not what she's doing it for either.
• 1:01:05
  But she thought that was that's. How they function?
• 1:01:09
  That crabs. Crabs in a bucket.
• 1:01:11
  Crabs in a motherfucker bucket. Damn.
• 1:01:18
  So the last bit with Sagarara, do you want to talk about that?
• 1:01:23
  I do because I loved. I don't know what's wrong with
• 1:01:26
  me, but the more insane a character is, the more I'm drawn
• 1:01:30
  to them. I find them multifaceted and
• 1:01:34
  very curiously interesting. Because he's nuts in the scene.
• 1:01:39
  He lives for this lives. It literally breathes it.
• 1:01:46
  Yeah, somebody said like. Fucking crazy.
• 1:01:50
  Only Saw Guerrera could make huffing gasoline the act of a
• 1:01:55
  revolutionary. Honest to God, but his speech
• 1:01:59
  leading up to it, it was very great because he mentions
• 1:02:04
  Onderon. He even referenced sister.
• 1:02:07
  Like it was a good callback for those who know and I really love
• 1:02:12
  that shit and it was appropriate.
• 1:02:14
  It wasn't just fan service for fan service.
• 1:02:17
  He really is passionate about this shit to the point where he
• 1:02:20
  will huff fumes and persuade someone else to huff fumes.
• 1:02:26
  And first of all, the acting is fantastic because there's
• 1:02:30
  something so unnerving about Forest Whitaker's portrayal of
• 1:02:34
  this character. I know, I feel like you never
• 1:02:36
  know if he's going to just stab you in the throat.
• 1:02:40
  And I think I would have huffed the gas fumes too, had he been
• 1:02:44
  standing there looking at me with that crazy grin in those
• 1:02:47
  crazy eyes. I know he can talk people into
• 1:02:50
  all sorts of things. He can revolutionize people.
• 1:02:54
  And yeah, he definitely converted Will there at the end.
• 1:02:58
  Will is like it's. Scared, I think Will knows what
• 1:03:01
  the fuck's going on. He's no, he's no idiot.
• 1:03:05
  Remain useful and part of the group and you won't die.
• 1:03:10
  So huff the fumes, and maybe he did feel impassioned by his
• 1:03:14
  speech because these guys want to feel something, that this is
• 1:03:18
  all for something. So I mean join in the fun I
• 1:03:23
  guess. When in Rome?
• 1:03:26
  But it's like, no wonder Sagarara needs a fucking
• 1:03:30
  respirator like. That's so.
• 1:03:34
  Funny we know how his accident like takes takes it out of him
• 1:03:39
  right? But it's like, well, he was on
• 1:03:40
  the path to using AC pap anyways.
• 1:03:44
  Technically. Technically, according to Rebel
• 1:03:47
  Rising, he should already have that respirator.
• 1:03:50
  Yeah. See, so when we were talking
• 1:03:52
  about like, is this like, is Gin around?
• 1:03:54
  Like, what do we, they're a little off on that timeline,
• 1:03:57
  which is totally fine. I mean, I guess it's fine.
• 1:03:59
  We don't know where Gin is. I wish we knew where Gin was,
• 1:04:01
  but she's got to be in the prison.
• 1:04:03
  Rebel Rising is concerned considered Canon, right?
• 1:04:06
  Because it's a Disney. Book.
• 1:04:08
  Yes, Yes. I don't know, they've retconned
• 1:04:10
  a few things that have been referenced in Rogue One already,
• 1:04:15
  so maybe it's just another thing, but So what are they
• 1:04:18
  doing? Are they stealing power?
• 1:04:21
  Is that what like what is this device that will is putting
• 1:04:25
  together and what is saw using it for?
• 1:04:28
  I was kind of didn't confused. I didn't quite catch any of it
• 1:04:31
  to be honest. I was so distracted by his
• 1:04:34
  ranting and raving that I forgot to listen to what he was
• 1:04:38
  actually saying. I think he referenced something
• 1:04:42
  about constant power, so I thought that they were like
• 1:04:45
  tapping into a power grid somehow, but I don't know.
• 1:04:50
  He I wrote down revolution isn't for the sane and.
• 1:04:56
  Yeah. I loved every second of that
• 1:05:00
  shit. But yeah, it was it was a nice
• 1:05:04
  call back. It was crazy ending just.
• 1:05:09
  Yeah. Man, he outsmarted them though.
• 1:05:13
  Like he had it all planned. He's very smart.
• 1:05:18
  Him and Lutheran are kind of the same and yet there are pretty
• 1:05:23
  big differences between them. Obviously Saw is on a whole
• 1:05:27
  different level where he's he is on a much different level.
• 1:05:31
  There's some decorum with Luthan.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah. But how much we don't know when
• 1:05:37
  it comes to the next episode, but.
• 1:05:39
  I know. I wonder if they're gonna ever
• 1:05:40
  go into the history between them.
• 1:05:44
  We obviously know they have a history, but we don't know how
• 1:05:47
  old that history is between SAU and Luthan.
• 1:05:51
  That's one thing I'll say about this show is the focus is so
• 1:05:58
  small that these larger story threads that are at play feel
• 1:06:03
  like they might never get resolved.
• 1:06:05
  I'm OK 'cause we've always said a little bit of mystery is good.
• 1:06:08
  Yes, but I am kind of worried now that we're already halfway
• 1:06:12
  through the show, and how are we supposed to tie in Gin, Galen,
• 1:06:17
  Krenik and the Death Star? We haven't even touched on it
• 1:06:20
  yet. You really think that that kind
• 1:06:22
  of intelligence comes in in a few days?
• 1:06:24
  That's a year's worth of work, so.
• 1:06:28
  I'm. That's my only concern is how
• 1:06:31
  are they going to pull this all together?
• 1:06:34
  Are they not on Gorman to get a power source for the Death Star?
• 1:06:39
  Is that not what this is all about?
• 1:06:41
  They are, but they haven't said that outright.
• 1:06:44
  They said it was for the Emperor's Free Energy
• 1:06:48
  Initiative. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:49
  Crock of bullshit. Fucking lie.
• 1:06:52
  So I do wonder if we're going to get Galen in Gorman say that
• 1:06:57
  five times fast, like as when they open this giant building or
• 1:07:04
  whenever they take it all down and they come in to get what
• 1:07:06
  they need that Galen's not part of that.
• 1:07:09
  And then like, well, you know. Yeah, cuz I guess in the book
• 1:07:13
  Catalyst, which I haven't read yet, but I really want to, it's
• 1:07:15
  about Galen or so, and he thinks he's working on an energy.
• 1:07:19
  Initiative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:07:20
  yeah. Yeah, and he doesn't realize
• 1:07:22
  till later that, oh, it's a weapon of mass destruction that
• 1:07:25
  I'm helping. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:28
  Yeah. Well, you know, keep your keep
• 1:07:30
  your secrets close, I guess. So that would be my only concern
• 1:07:35
  cuz each of these episodes it takes place over a couple of
• 1:07:38
  days and. Yeah, and then we go a whole
• 1:07:41
  year of we don't know what the fuck happened.
• 1:07:43
  So yeah, and I, I will say the this whole plot line was, it
• 1:07:50
  kind of gave me the same feeling that I got with the Yavin
• 1:07:54
  rebels. Oh, Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:57
  Like that could have been one episode true instead of two, and
• 1:08:02
  there could have been more substance going on there.
• 1:08:04
  And then I feel like the same thing with the Gorman front in
• 1:08:07
  this episode. I thought Gorman would be done
• 1:08:10
  by now. Yes, I felt like the episode was
• 1:08:12
  halfway finished and I was like, we should have wrapped this up
• 1:08:15
  already and we're extending out into a longer sequence.
• 1:08:19
  And I was like, we are not going to answer the questions that I
• 1:08:22
  have by the end of this episode. And then we're going to go a
• 1:08:25
  year from now. So again, I I reserve judgement
• 1:08:31
  till the very end of the show because I trust that they're
• 1:08:34
  going to tie this all together because they're leaving a lot of
• 1:08:37
  strands at the end of their episodes.
• 1:08:40
  So we'll see. But yeah, I really thought that
• 1:08:44
  there's there's got to start to be some references somewhere to
• 1:08:49
  the stuff that is central to Rogue One if these stories are
• 1:08:52
  going to tie together at some point.
• 1:08:55
  We have 6 episodes left, right, two more blocks.
• 1:09:01
  OK, well that's six hours of footage, right?
• 1:09:05
  Maybe 7 if they go over well. How about episode 3-6?
• 1:09:11
  Well, it starts off with that great scene with Lutheran and
• 1:09:15
  Cassian and Lutheran ship going back to chorus on.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, and it Harkins back to Season 1, where Luthan's up
• 1:09:23
  front and Cassian's in the back, and they have a conversation
• 1:09:27
  that doesn't go very deep, but. I think this is a really
• 1:09:31
  important scene. I think it's just show that it
• 1:09:34
  kind of implies a couple of different things, maybe that
• 1:09:37
  Luthan is losing his touch. Yeah.
• 1:09:42
  Maybe he's he's like getting blind to certain things and
• 1:09:46
  Cassian is is outstripping him in a sense where he can see a
• 1:09:50
  larger picture that Luthan is no longer able to see because
• 1:09:53
  Luthan is stretched so thin. Well, that and I have Luthan
• 1:09:57
  sees only success as opposed to anything else.
• 1:10:02
  And he's kind of taking on an Imperial manner of doing things
• 1:10:08
  because he he had a much wider scope, whether it's because he
• 1:10:11
  had control before and it's too big now or whatever, but he's
• 1:10:16
  kind of his. So I noticed there were a lot of
• 1:10:19
  hallway shots in this episode. And I think it, it, it says you
• 1:10:25
  walk a very narrow path. This was, you know, spoken to,
• 1:10:30
  to Deidre. But I think they're all very
• 1:10:33
  narrow focus, like Lutheran's focus is very narrow.
• 1:10:38
  They're all very tight line, you know, a narrow path.
• 1:10:43
  They're they're on a they're on a what is it a hair's breath?
• 1:10:46
  Like, is that the is that the phrase?
• 1:10:48
  Like that's what they're at at this point.
• 1:10:51
  And Lutheran is the leader of all of this.
• 1:10:53
  He's the one at the front who's losing ground.
• 1:10:55
  Well, he's kind of losing it the most.
• 1:10:58
  But it's because he's he's overstretched at this point.
• 1:11:01
  He's got too many things in play and he's having trouble
• 1:11:04
  protecting himself while making the right choices and.
• 1:11:09
  Well, he's demanding things from people, and they can't produce
• 1:11:12
  it as fast as he wants. And so Cassie is talking about
• 1:11:14
  the impatience of the people in Gorman when Lutheran is the most
• 1:11:19
  important, impatient, portent, good God, the most impatient
• 1:11:24
  person. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:11:26
  That's a great point. It's.
• 1:11:28
  A really great point and and we see he like he won't accept
• 1:11:33
  Cassian's answer and sends Vel instead and it goes terribly
• 1:11:36
  wrong and again, Cassian was fucking right and why didn't
• 1:11:39
  anyone listen to him? He was, he has so much insight
• 1:11:44
  and can read people better and he's there and Lutheran isn't,
• 1:11:47
  so Lutheran has to trust him more.
• 1:11:50
  And Lutheran is the one who fucking trained him.
• 1:11:53
  He wouldn't be sending him if he didn't trust his opinion.
• 1:11:55
  But then he doesn't trust his opinion and he's like, oh, that
• 1:11:58
  was a rash decision. It's like, has he ever made a
• 1:12:00
  rash decision? Like maybe when he's, he's been
• 1:12:04
  right. He okayed and signed off on the
• 1:12:09
  transmitter, the camera, the voice thing in the other
• 1:12:12
  archaeological museum. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:16
  And, and she yells at him and says, you were part of this
• 1:12:19
  decision. And he's just like, I could
• 1:12:21
  never make a decision like that. And she's like, you did, yes.
• 1:12:24
  So it's like even when he does misstep, he doesn't own up to
• 1:12:28
  it. That's not a good trait to have
• 1:12:29
  as a leader. When I think Cassian is starting
• 1:12:31
  to see that and and to see that there's like this lack of
• 1:12:35
  humanity, which is when he says we're not droids within, like we
• 1:12:39
  have to take the human part of it into account.
• 1:12:42
  And Lutheran is like, it's a new frontline against the Empire,
• 1:12:45
  like basically saying, who cares what the cost is?
• 1:12:49
  That's more important than the long game.
• 1:12:51
  And Cassian is saying there is no long game here.
• 1:12:55
  They're going to make a very visible rebellious act
• 1:13:01
  advertised that they did it. And he even says in the last
• 1:13:04
  episode, you're going, you're not escaping the scene of the
• 1:13:07
  crime. You're going to live here.
• 1:13:10
  Tell them that you did it. Also, the Armory's already
• 1:13:13
  built. It's too late to make any
• 1:13:15
  changes. So what you're going to do is
• 1:13:17
  bring the wrath of the Empire down, and it's not going to
• 1:13:19
  change anything. He is seeing the long game.
• 1:13:23
  Yeah, and he was right, of course.
• 1:13:26
  It's just like, it's so frustrating, but I think it's
• 1:13:31
  important because there is some point because in Rogue One he's
• 1:13:35
  not working for Luthan. He's part of the Rebellion and
• 1:13:38
  Mon Mothma and whatever is going on there, there has to be a
• 1:13:42
  separation. And like you said, people will
• 1:13:44
  probably naturally fall away. And this is maybe the first
• 1:13:47
  cracks that are appearing. And I think that also carries on
• 1:13:54
  into the conversation he has Cassian has with Bix when he
• 1:13:58
  gets home and finds out Luthan has been to the safe house.
• 1:14:02
  Yeah. As he says, Luthan doesn't do
• 1:14:05
  anything without a purpose. Absolutely, and even Bix said.
• 1:14:09
  You're not here, just you're here for a reason.
• 1:14:11
  What was it you know? Yeah, and she's maybe she's a
• 1:14:15
  little naive about it, but because she thinks Luthan was
• 1:14:19
  there to really ask her to do something, and she would have
• 1:14:21
  done it if he asked her to do it.
• 1:14:23
  And what Cassian, I think is seeing, he has this instinct
• 1:14:26
  that Luthan would ask her to do that, to leave the house because
• 1:14:30
  he knows Cassian doesn't want her to go out because he's
• 1:14:32
  afraid for her safety, because she's like having mental health
• 1:14:37
  issues and is like taking drugs. And like, he can sense something
• 1:14:42
  deeper is wrong and she shouldn't be going out on these
• 1:14:45
  missions. Whereas Luthan is like trying to
• 1:14:48
  drive a wedge between the relationship because like what
• 1:14:50
  you said, he doesn't want people tied down to other people.
• 1:14:55
  He wants free and clear soldiers to go sacrifice whatever he
• 1:14:58
  asked them to sacrifice. These are not clones.
• 1:15:02
  Yeah, and even the clones are like, you know, more humane than
• 1:15:06
  right. I mean, I guess honestly what
• 1:15:08
  you just said and the way you said it reminds me of Saw, so
• 1:15:13
  maybe him and Lutheran really aren't all that different.
• 1:15:15
  Saw is just a little more visible with it.
• 1:15:19
  Yeah. But I mean, it's the same
• 1:15:21
  mindset. Well, actually he does the same
• 1:15:25
  thing with Val and Cinta. He keeps them separated.
• 1:15:28
  Well, I mean, that was very obvious to me because he
• 1:15:31
  probably knew something was going to happen.
• 1:15:34
  And so if he can get rid of one relationship and he's
• 1:15:38
  successful, maybe he can do it with Bix and Cassian too.
• 1:15:41
  Because as long as you're tied to something and you have
• 1:15:44
  feelings and you're and you, well, it's like the Jedi I
• 1:15:49
  thought of the Jedi during this don't form attachments because
• 1:15:53
  you won't be able to do what's needed to be done.
• 1:15:56
  Yeah, but I think Cassian is seeing or not seeing, but maybe
• 1:16:01
  he believes more that like that connection and Val too.
• 1:16:05
  I really think a. 100. Percent.
• 1:16:08
  Those connections are what give you something to fight for.
• 1:16:11
  Yeah. And Lutheran is losing sight of
• 1:16:14
  that. Be when those two speak and
• 1:16:18
  Cassian goes to the museum antique shop.
• 1:16:22
  I still don't even know really what it is, but obviously it's
• 1:16:26
  like in the middle of the night and he wakes up Lutheran and
• 1:16:30
  there's a shot where Lutheran's coming to the front door, but
• 1:16:32
  there's two clawed hands and it's like Cassie's about to sink
• 1:16:37
  his claws into. Yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Luthan. Which is crazy.
• 1:16:42
  Or does Luthan really already have his claws in Cassian?
• 1:16:45
  I mean, it's kind of, you know, indifferent at this point.
• 1:16:48
  It clearly there's there's cracks beginning to show in
• 1:16:52
  their relationship and also in Luthan's ability to keep his
• 1:16:55
  shit together. Really.
• 1:16:57
  I mean, I get it though, because he's going to fucking parties
• 1:17:02
  that are obviously unnecessary. I mean, Mon Mothma said so, you
• 1:17:07
  know, and like fucking critics there.
• 1:17:09
  So it like you have to, I mean, that would drive me.
• 1:17:12
  The constant having to be fake and watch your back at all time
• 1:17:16
  would I would have lost it a long time ago.
• 1:17:19
  And I feel for Bix too, because when you don't feel right and
• 1:17:24
  you're having like a mental health moment and I've been
• 1:17:26
  there, you want the people around you to know that you're
• 1:17:30
  still in there and you can still do it.
• 1:17:32
  I can still do it. You can still depend on me.
• 1:17:34
  I'm not well, but I can still do this.
• 1:17:36
  She doesn't want this to impact her in the way that it actually
• 1:17:39
  is. And she feels sad, like sad
• 1:17:43
  about that and embarrassed, and she shouldn't be.
• 1:17:45
  And I don't think Cassian, I don't think Cassian thinks of
• 1:17:48
  her like that. But you know, she's thinking
• 1:17:50
  about herself like that. But there's this.
• 1:17:52
  Great thing that happens that I I think that one of the things
• 1:17:57
  that I wanted to ask you about too was that scene with Luther
• 1:18:01
  and Cassian at the antique shop where Lutheran says you've both
• 1:18:06
  disappointed me today. He says Cassian says you would
• 1:18:10
  have known she was going to tell me and he said I thought it
• 1:18:14
  would be interesting if she didn't, but you have both
• 1:18:16
  disappointed me. So he.
• 1:18:18
  He was hoping. That she wouldn't tell him.
• 1:18:21
  So they're in it deeper than Lutheran really helped.
• 1:18:25
  Yeah. Or feared.
• 1:18:27
  And now he knows. OK, maybe I can't trust them
• 1:18:29
  because they're obviously in deep here.
• 1:18:31
  Yeah, but I think what's really sucks, really so cool though, is
• 1:18:35
  Cassian like double S down then on his support of Bix and that
• 1:18:41
  last scene of the episode, giving Bix her her moment to set
• 1:18:46
  herself free from Doctor Gorst and like empower her.
• 1:18:51
  And he's just there to like be back up for her.
• 1:18:54
  That was like a big fuck you to Lutheran.
• 1:18:56
  I think because she does. She is still reliable.
• 1:19:00
  Cassian knows that, but under the right circumstances where
• 1:19:03
  she feels empowered instead of like, undermined or like
• 1:19:07
  someone. The stuff she's been through
• 1:19:10
  just in the last year that we know of, and on top of
• 1:19:13
  everything else, give the woman her her due, you know, and
• 1:19:18
  Cassian, boyfriend of the fucking year.
• 1:19:22
  Are they really married? I can't tell.
• 1:19:25
  No, I can't imagine how they could legally without putting
• 1:19:31
  their names on the desk of the Empire, but.
• 1:19:34
  But maybe, you know, it's one of those common law things, You,
• 1:19:36
  you live together for so long, then it's just, you know, Yeah.
• 1:19:39
  Yeah, exactly. Maybe.
• 1:19:41
  Yeah. Well, I think that the whole
• 1:19:45
  thing with Cell and Cell and Vinta, there's my dyslexia
• 1:19:48
  showing with Val and Cinta was so sad it.
• 1:19:55
  Really was. Did you notice when they met up
• 1:19:57
  at the bar that the window was yin and Yang?
• 1:20:00
  Yes. I figured you would.
• 1:20:03
  I thought that was a nice touch. It was beautiful.
• 1:20:06
  To in tune with each other. Together but separate at the
• 1:20:10
  same time, you know, it's like they are the balance.
• 1:20:13
  But also I have this sense with with them that like Scinta is
• 1:20:18
  the unattainable for Vel. Like they they love each other,
• 1:20:23
  but it feels. Speech.
• 1:20:24
  Oh. My God, Oh my God, it was so it
• 1:20:27
  brought me to tears. And even just watching it
• 1:20:29
  really, really quick earlier today, it again brought so much
• 1:20:33
  emotion for me. But it's like Sinta is this
• 1:20:37
  perfection and she's unattainable and she has this
• 1:20:41
  pain that kind of sets her apart.
• 1:20:43
  And she does love Vel, but not in the in the way that Vel loves
• 1:20:48
  Scinta. There's just right this
• 1:20:50
  disconnect all the time. And God, it's so devastating.
• 1:20:54
  It is, and I love every second of it because it's one of those.
• 1:20:57
  You root for them. Yeah, but they can never be, you
• 1:21:01
  know, the the star crossed lovers.
• 1:21:03
  But I know that just that whole thing pissed me off.
• 1:21:08
  Oh my God. So unnecessary.
• 1:21:11
  Cassian was right about this whole fucking thing.
• 1:21:15
  Vel and Sinto were on their game.
• 1:21:17
  They were on top of this whole fucking thing.
• 1:21:19
  First of all, Sinto leaping off that fucking balcony, running
• 1:21:23
  over that thing. I was like, damn, I need to do
• 1:21:27
  this, that seems shit and nailed the landing and everything.
• 1:21:31
  And she, I loved the whole thing.
• 1:21:33
  I loved all of it. But the way that Vel look at me,
• 1:21:40
  you will. I wish if I like this was the
• 1:21:42
  speech of the episode of this block of episodes of the season
• 1:21:46
  so far. Like holy shit, she belittled
• 1:21:49
  the fuck out of him, and I hope he does carry his mistake, carry
• 1:21:54
  Scinta with him, you fucking fool.
• 1:21:58
  She was everything to her and the way she praised her, like
• 1:22:03
  she was, the wording, the writing, the way that she
• 1:22:09
  admired Scinta. It's a shame that she was
• 1:22:14
  actually saying it. And I feel like she was saying
• 1:22:16
  it into the ether so that because she never got a chance
• 1:22:19
  to tell Scinta and in defending her with this stupid asshole,
• 1:22:26
  she got to say what she probably always wanted to but never
• 1:22:28
  could. And.
• 1:22:30
  It's fucking heartbreaking and I truly Star Wars this pain in
• 1:22:35
  every inch. Oz Millimetre.
• 1:22:39
  Centimetre. Well, it's, it's what Cassian
• 1:22:46
  had said from the beginning that they're they're not disciplined
• 1:22:51
  and it's not worth the risk of working with these undisciplined
• 1:22:55
  people. And you knew right from that
• 1:22:58
  first debriefing or debriefing, whatever it is, where they're
• 1:23:02
  saying chain of command is essential, you must do what we
• 1:23:05
  say. So you knew that's the place it
• 1:23:07
  was going to fall apart. And of course he brought a gun
• 1:23:11
  or a blaster or whatever when they said that only Scinta and
• 1:23:14
  Val were allowed to have blasters and he was a fucking
• 1:23:16
  child, didn't do what he was told.
• 1:23:18
  And this warrior goes down needlessly.
• 1:23:21
  And when she said she was a warrior, she was everything that
• 1:23:26
  you have daydreamed about. And it's because these these
• 1:23:29
  people are dreaming and not in reality.
• 1:23:33
  They want to be rebellious and and save their country.
• 1:23:38
  They don't yet understand what that really means, that that's
• 1:23:43
  blood and it's brutal and it's heartbreaking.
• 1:23:45
  And Vel and Sinta know that Sinta's family was killed by
• 1:23:49
  stormtroopers. You know it's.
• 1:23:51
  Yep. It's like, welcome to reality,
• 1:23:55
  here it comes. You brought it on yourself.
• 1:23:58
  It's. Pointless anyway because it's a
• 1:24:00
  whole setup for the Empire on purpose.
• 1:24:04
  Yep. All this for nothing, it's so
• 1:24:07
  fucking heartbreaking. I hate that the Empire had their
• 1:24:11
  moment. Yeah, nobody really knows except
• 1:24:14
  the Empire. But even, I mean, even fucking
• 1:24:16
  Cyril doesn't really know anything.
• 1:24:20
  You know, he's he's down there smiling when he heard a shot go
• 1:24:23
  off and all this stuff. He's just like, whatever.
• 1:24:26
  I mean, cool, you work for the horrible people.
• 1:24:30
  Nice. Good life choice.
• 1:24:33
  I wonder if they will give us some sort of vengeance against
• 1:24:37
  Cyril Will where he'll have to experience what he's doing to
• 1:24:41
  other people. I hope Cassie does it.
• 1:24:44
  Oh, that'd be great. It would go back to episode
• 1:24:47
  fucking one, you know, season 1. He went into Marva's house and
• 1:24:54
  roughed her up and he has no care at all for the consequences
• 1:24:59
  of his actions. He only ever thinks about how it
• 1:25:02
  it it's affecting him. And someday, I hope he knows
• 1:25:06
  what it's like to be ruining all these people's lives and
• 1:25:09
  gloating over it. Well, The thing is, is people
• 1:25:12
  like him, people like the Empire, they don't give a fuck.
• 1:25:15
  You'll never be able to tell them enough times, 'cause they
• 1:25:18
  just don't. They're not wired that way.
• 1:25:20
  They just don't care. It's true.
• 1:25:23
  The three plot lines laced together.
• 1:25:25
  What's going on at the party with again, I can't remember her
• 1:25:29
  name. Clea.
• 1:25:32
  Clea, why can't I name remember her name?
• 1:25:35
  She's literally bleeding trying to get this recording device out
• 1:25:40
  of this thing. It's so tense.
• 1:25:43
  It's also extremely tense because get it mom.
• 1:25:46
  Mothma back talking to Credit when he has a stripe on his
• 1:25:50
  Cape. This is a new elevated level of
• 1:25:53
  credit. Credit came with the same
• 1:25:54
  fucking outfit and just added a stripe.
• 1:25:57
  I love it. His dress Cape.
• 1:25:59
  Yeah, it's his dress Cape with black, you know, extra, extra
• 1:26:05
  fucking sassy. But the fact that she stood up
• 1:26:07
  and what they were saying, let's not, let's not just over shadow
• 1:26:11
  this because yeah, what was going on in the dialogue there
• 1:26:14
  is very pointed and very good. But it was interlaced with what
• 1:26:18
  the what the fuck's going on on Gorman and all this stuff.
• 1:26:23
  I was like, so nervous, I couldn't sit still.
• 1:26:25
  I kept readjusting. I was like, Oh my God, what's
• 1:26:27
  going to happen? Oh my God, just get it out of
• 1:26:31
  the thing, Clay. Get it out and like Oh my God,
• 1:26:36
  it. Was very tough.
• 1:26:37
  It all worked out, in fact I needed her little laugh at the
• 1:26:41
  end about how they should have killed Chronic while they were
• 1:26:43
  in there. Bitch.
• 1:26:45
  As a fan of Chronic, I agreed with them but like I needed that
• 1:26:50
  moment of like relief of not comedic but almost like.
• 1:26:54
  Release the tension. Yeah, there's so much tension in
• 1:26:57
  my body. I couldn't sit still.
• 1:26:59
  So good. Really good.
• 1:27:01
  Yeah, it was. It was cool the way they were
• 1:27:02
  cutting back and forth between the two, like this glamorous
• 1:27:05
  party and this grungy heist taking place in a sewer,
• 1:27:09
  basically. Well, it's, it's several layers
• 1:27:13
  of dueling, yes, and and and the the the minds at work, because I
• 1:27:22
  think Mon could take chronic if there was a like a debate class,
• 1:27:27
  I think both of them could debate one another.
• 1:27:30
  And I think I think given given the topic, Mon might come out on
• 1:27:35
  top. Yeah, I loved her line.
• 1:27:37
  How pleasant to see you free of the witness stand.
• 1:27:40
  Right, right. Fucking brilliant.
• 1:27:45
  Oh, God. I do think, though, that Klaya
• 1:27:50
  using Lani as like a decoy was not wise.
• 1:27:54
  I I think that that was a really weak cover.
• 1:27:57
  And if either parties ever get caught, it's going to be so
• 1:28:01
  easy. Yeah, to associate them.
• 1:28:05
  How else would they have done it though?
• 1:28:07
  I mean, it was so fucking awful. Like he even said right out,
• 1:28:11
  this is this is suicide. This is madness.
• 1:28:14
  Yeah. She's like, I got to do it.
• 1:28:16
  There's no fucking. There's no choice.
• 1:28:18
  We have no choice. I have to do this.
• 1:28:19
  Like, and he's like, do you know who's in this room right now?
• 1:28:22
  Like what's? Afraid with the fact that Mon
• 1:28:24
  Mothma's like back talking him and challenging him with stairs
• 1:28:27
  and stuff had him occupied. She was the real distraction.
• 1:28:31
  I know she was, and she looked. The unintended.
• 1:28:33
  Gorgeous doing. It her her Cape.
• 1:28:36
  Can we talk about whatever the fuck that head veil thing was?
• 1:28:41
  Oh my God, the silver. Yeah.
• 1:28:43
  Oh my God she is stunning. Stunning.
• 1:28:49
  What are your thoughts? On Bale Organa being recast.
• 1:28:53
  What the fuck I put in here? Who the hell is this?
• 1:28:56
  That's who I have, that's what I have.
• 1:28:58
  Who the hell is this? Bale Organa?
• 1:29:02
  Is he on a GL P1 medication? What happened?
• 1:29:07
  Bale, Gatto, Zampic hollowed out.
• 1:29:14
  I don't know. It was so unnecessary.
• 1:29:17
  They really wanted to cast Jimmy Smith's from what I understand,
• 1:29:19
  but they like the scheduling didn't work.
• 1:29:22
  And it is. I've seen a lot of hate on this
• 1:29:28
  and. It just wasn't necessary.
• 1:29:30
  Don't put bail in it. It wasn't a key.
• 1:29:32
  Scene it's going to be necessary I I.
• 1:29:35
  Think, oh it is. Yes, I think, I think because
• 1:29:38
  they needed to establish he's part of the beginning of the
• 1:29:42
  rebellion, like he's going to be part of the story.
• 1:29:45
  So I think it is probably like a way of easing the audience into
• 1:29:49
  it's going to be someone different, so.
• 1:29:51
  OK, but it's Jimmy Smith's or boss like we we're not.
• 1:29:55
  I mean, no offense, no offense. Yeah.
• 1:29:59
  We're we're just very used to Jimmy and we love him and we
• 1:30:05
  honor him. And his performance in Kenobi
• 1:30:08
  made me love him even more as Bale I was.
• 1:30:11
  Thinking of that at this time, thinking we just had him, so
• 1:30:16
  where's he at? But.
• 1:30:18
  Yeah, it's going to. It's going to look weird.
• 1:30:21
  If Jimmy Smits gave his blessing then I I might be able to maybe.
• 1:30:27
  But we don't have a choice, so let's fucking go I guess.
• 1:30:30
  And they also said, I've heard this set a few times that
• 1:30:32
  they're bringing in, quote, legacy characters and it's very
• 1:30:36
  expensive. So that would be critic, it
• 1:30:42
  would be Galen, it would be Bale, Mon Mothma, Sagarera.
• 1:30:47
  These are all legacy and they're all like very famous actors now.
• 1:30:51
  And they're probably very pricey.
• 1:30:55
  They built all these sets and they have all this couture.
• 1:30:57
  I mean, yeah, I guess you got to draw the line at something.
• 1:31:01
  I wonder too, at some point are we going to see Vader?
• 1:31:04
  Are we going to see the Emperor? I don't think so.
• 1:31:07
  I hope not at this point. I hope not because we don't need
• 1:31:10
  them. We already know Vader has his
• 1:31:12
  moment in fucking Rogue One. Rogue One we.
• 1:31:15
  I know the words coming out of my mouth.
• 1:31:17
  We really, we don't need Vader. I don't think the Emperor would
• 1:31:22
  be interesting because obviously.
• 1:31:23
  He is referenced quite a bit. He is, Yeah.
• 1:31:28
  Well, so the last scene. Is damn.
• 1:31:34
  Doctor Gorst carrying a cake, A little piece of dessert.
• 1:31:38
  A little little little duck to go bag a little doggy bag.
• 1:31:42
  Back to the office. I thought it was a dream at
• 1:31:46
  first. I thought it was another one of
• 1:31:47
  her hallucinations. And then I was like, wait a
• 1:31:49
  minute, she's really gonna do it.
• 1:31:51
  That's awesome. Straight up fucking shot and
• 1:31:54
  imperial like. I know she broke in it Was that
• 1:31:59
  the ISB? It was one of their buildings at
• 1:32:02
  least. One of their buildings so this
• 1:32:04
  is not good cuz there's probably cameras.
• 1:32:07
  She had a hood up in the trailers.
• 1:32:09
  I had no idea that was Bix. It didn't look like it at all to
• 1:32:12
  me. So baby, the hood is enough.
• 1:32:17
  It's like Clark can wear my glasses.
• 1:32:20
  It was gutsy, but I'm glad they did it and I was I like did the
• 1:32:23
  double snap at the end. I was like get a bitch, do what
• 1:32:26
  you got to do to get right. And this is a good start.
• 1:32:29
  Like and Cassie and Bacter. It was great.
• 1:32:32
  It was so great. I love that he was like, I know
• 1:32:35
  you. And she's like, yeah, you do
• 1:32:37
  fuck you and. Just sit here, it'll only feel
• 1:32:40
  like forever, she said. Horrible.
• 1:32:42
  Oh my God, so amazing. And then they blow up the
• 1:32:45
  fucking building. It was awesome.
• 1:32:47
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, I was here for that.
• 1:32:50
  I mean, we got a lot going on. There's a lot of pieces moving.
• 1:32:54
  Well, and that's interesting too, 'cause they had talked
• 1:32:56
  about Doctor Gorce was going to be, I don't know how to describe
• 1:32:59
  it, contracted out to other parts of the military because he
• 1:33:03
  is ISB. And there was a scene with
• 1:33:05
  Partagas saying that the Emperor wants him used to speed up, you
• 1:33:10
  know, interrogation basically, and Oh well, now he can't.
• 1:33:15
  What a. Shame.
• 1:33:17
  I think that that was such a great scene to end on, as
• 1:33:21
  opposed to the last episode where Bix comes out very
• 1:33:26
  brutalized in this, it's like her taking her power back.
• 1:33:29
  It was really great. Yeah, these three episodes,
• 1:33:34
  Fantastic. I I just, it's crazy to think
• 1:33:38
  what's left. Two more years until Rogue One.
• 1:33:41
  What the fuck? I know.
• 1:33:43
  Look, if there aren't droids in the next episode, I'm going to
• 1:33:46
  riot. What'd you say?
• 1:33:49
  Say again. If there aren't droids in the
• 1:33:52
  next episode, where is K2? Oh fuck I Oh my God.
• 1:33:56
  Blasphemous. Where is K2?
• 1:33:59
  Shit. Oh my God, I forgot about K2.
• 1:34:04
  I know, I know. We've already left B behind and
• 1:34:08
  we don't have K, so could we please have something?
• 1:34:12
  If K just heard me say that I forgot about him, he would
• 1:34:15
  backhand me and I would be all right with it.
• 1:34:19
  Shame on me for forgetting. We need to get that.
• 1:34:21
  Oh my God. Oh, it's coming, it's coming.
• 1:34:24
  We have that. We know it's coming.
• 1:34:26
  It better, it better come next episode, or at least the next
• 1:34:29
  episode block, but really the next episode, please.
• 1:34:31
  Yes, please. We need, we need that legacy
• 1:34:34
  character back. Please.
• 1:34:35
  Yes, I'll pay any price. I don't care how much money
• 1:34:39
  Disney charges for their fast pass.
• 1:34:41
  I will pay it so we can get K2. SO back on the show.
• 1:34:44
  Let's go. Because they be charging a lot.
• 1:34:48
  I don't know if you know this, but they be charging a lot.
• 1:34:52
  Whatever gets us our our Jimmy Smith back.
• 1:34:56
  No, I'm not a hater. I'm not a hater.
• 1:34:58
  I'm just saying. Yeah, I was.
• 1:35:00
  I saw a rumor of it, so I wasn't so shocked what I saw it, but I
• 1:35:04
  was kind of like, you know, it's not as good, but.
• 1:35:07
  It's not as good, but it's not bad.
• 1:35:10
  I'm sure he'll do a fine job, he's a good enough actor, but
• 1:35:13
  it's just. Jimmy, he has to make us love
• 1:35:15
  him. Yeah, there's so much warmth in
• 1:35:18
  Jimmy Smith's performance that a little tongue in cheek, a little
• 1:35:20
  twinkle in the eye that's there. That is very special.
• 1:35:24
  So hopefully it will be all right.
• 1:35:26
  Well, what do you have a favorite moment of these three
• 1:35:28
  episodes? Anytime Cassian is in that
• 1:35:32
  tuxedo. Why did I even ask?
• 1:35:36
  I mean, that whole second episode was fucking glorious.
• 1:35:40
  Even when he got home and he said I was very, very pretty, he
• 1:35:43
  was like, yes, he. Was yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:47
  He was pretty in that scene too. Yeah, not bad.
• 1:35:51
  What about you? I'm going to call headquarters.
• 1:36:00
  I'm just kidding. I think if I had to, if I had to
• 1:36:05
  pick, I would say it was Val's speech about Santa that was the
• 1:36:12
  most moving for me. That was very moving.
• 1:36:14
  It was one of my. Favorite Home?
• 1:36:16
  Yeah, her performance was so beautiful, one of the best of
• 1:36:19
  the series, I would say, so far. I would put it up there for
• 1:36:23
  sure. It's.
• 1:36:23
  It's like so restrained, she's she is holding back her tears,
• 1:36:27
  but you could see God so good. I don't know how she did it.
• 1:36:32
  I don't know either, but all of these people deserve endless
• 1:36:35
  credit for what they're bringing to this masterpiece of a show.
• 1:36:46
  Right, well, join us back for next week.
• 1:36:49
  We are going to do AND OR episodes 789 and we might post a
• 1:36:54
  little late, we're not sure. Leanne is traveling so our
• 1:36:57
  schedule is not as strict as normal, so it's possible the
• 1:37:00
  episode will drop a few days late, but either way, don't fear
• 1:37:04
  it will be coming. So join us back next time for
• 1:37:07
  AND OR episodes 78 and 9. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:37:13
  here on the Most Things Kenobi podcast.
• 1:37:15
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• 1:37:18
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• 1:37:24
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• 1:37:41
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• 1:37:50
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• 1:37:54
  Always.